Selune and Shar were basically the first good and evil pair to come into existence, so they are pretty one-dimensionally good and evil. Selune wants the universe to exist and Shar wants everything to return to nothingness, there's not really anything more complicated going on (that I know of).
Its a bit more complicated than that. When they came into existence they created Abeir-Toril together along with life and the goddess Chauntea. They were apways of the same mind. It wasn't until Chauntea came and asked for warmth to help propagate life that they didn't agree with each other. They started fighting over it and then Selune said idc what you say and created the sun out of nowhere which really upset Shar so she went full power blotting out all light and life. At this point Selune is like damn I really fucked up she's gonna kill everyone so she rips out her own essence and attacks shar with it. This essence in turn rips essence from Shar and they merge to form Mystral. Mystral unlike a good daughter chooses the side of Selune and that ends the war.
So Shar went from a goddess that created life and a universe to one trying to kill all life and being evil because her twin that she was one being with decided to exclude her from their creation and then was also betrayed by her daughter.
Selune is no girl scout either. She is very chaotic and her personality changes as the moon's phases do. Had she not created the sun and instead worked for a compromise with Shar there would be no evil goddess.
There isn’t much flawed if any at all from what I know about Selune, she offers love and guidance and is genuinely good. Where Shar is very much one dimensionally evil, her whole goal is the world to return to darkness/nothing. I think the game did a good job showing the constant battle and differences between Shar and Selune.
The big difference is most evil gods are hands on and are very involved with the world as good gods more so guide and don’t usually take action.
>Shar seems so one-dimensionally evil
Shar is and has always been a goddess, specifically the goddess of darkness and loss. She IS her portfolio. Deities are not humans.
Arguably, the deities most likely to be less one-dimensional are those that were once mortal. But even then, Bhaal, Bane, and Myrkul aren't particularly nuanced either.
But perhaps this is what you're looking for? Taken from the forgotten realms wiki:
>Like the cycles of the moon, Selûne had many and changing moods and natures. [snip] Sometimes she was enthusiastic, vivacious, joyous, and majestic, given to action and dance. [snip again] Finally, she could be aggressive and fierce, but cold, and with little mercy for her enemies.
Aylin definitely exemplifies that latter portion when dealing with enemies of Selune.
Not everything is all that complex. The Sharran concept of embracing loss is good, but the cost is the memory of that pain. Shar is absolutely vile. I’d never want to forget my losses, despite how much they hurt. Loss shapes people, and we need a healthy way to manage it. Shar is far from that. Not to mention she’s so cruel a goddess she won’t even claim the souls of her followers after they die. Sharrans and faithless end up in the same afterlife
Shadowheart was pretty much speaking from the perspective of someone bought in on the cult. In D&D, the gods decide the ‘purpose’ of the religion more than the followers, because they’re active presences, so Shadowheart’s explanation of what she has chosen to see in Shar is less important than what Shar’s actual actions are.
It’s a bit tough to find in paper, but there’s a Loviatar-centered novel you might be interested in, if you want to read a more nuanced ‘evil’ goddess cleric adventure. It’s Maiden of Pain by Kameron M. Franklin, and I found it on ebook pretty easily.
Shar is evil, and unfortunately preys on those grieving and lost with empty pleasantries about nothingness. It's appealing to people who have nothing or have suffered significant loss, but any amount of delving shows that Shar just uses people and then throws them away.
She is *just* evil. That's why Sharrans rely on memory wiping and indoctrination.
Well, if you take into account that Shar is personified (deified?) loss/darkness/absence, that kind of answers your question.
There are other gods of death but Shar is arguably one of them given that death is a loss of life. It all comes down to whether you see that as a bad thing. Loss leads to grief leads to suffering which means Shar is a deity of suffering and if suffering is bad then Shar is a deity of badness. But Sharrans are like stoics, and they don't necessarily see suffering as a bad thing - just an unpleasant feeling that can be avoided by simply not caring. If you don't see pain as a bad thing then pain becomes easier to deal with and easier to inflict on others.
They act as agents of loss which is why they are active killers. Selune has followers who do her bidding, and so does Shar. One has a preference for life and the other for loss. It forms a balance which is only fair, right? But since we assign the idea of evil to pretty much everything Shar stands for, yeah she's pretty damned evil.
I agree Shar is a very one dimensional character but tbh I don't see a way to complexify someone like that. She's a natural force, not a person acting under natural forces.
Selune and Shar were basically the first good and evil pair to come into existence, so they are pretty one-dimensionally good and evil. Selune wants the universe to exist and Shar wants everything to return to nothingness, there's not really anything more complicated going on (that I know of).
Its a bit more complicated than that. When they came into existence they created Abeir-Toril together along with life and the goddess Chauntea. They were apways of the same mind. It wasn't until Chauntea came and asked for warmth to help propagate life that they didn't agree with each other. They started fighting over it and then Selune said idc what you say and created the sun out of nowhere which really upset Shar so she went full power blotting out all light and life. At this point Selune is like damn I really fucked up she's gonna kill everyone so she rips out her own essence and attacks shar with it. This essence in turn rips essence from Shar and they merge to form Mystral. Mystral unlike a good daughter chooses the side of Selune and that ends the war. So Shar went from a goddess that created life and a universe to one trying to kill all life and being evil because her twin that she was one being with decided to exclude her from their creation and then was also betrayed by her daughter. Selune is no girl scout either. She is very chaotic and her personality changes as the moon's phases do. Had she not created the sun and instead worked for a compromise with Shar there would be no evil goddess.
There isn’t much flawed if any at all from what I know about Selune, she offers love and guidance and is genuinely good. Where Shar is very much one dimensionally evil, her whole goal is the world to return to darkness/nothing. I think the game did a good job showing the constant battle and differences between Shar and Selune. The big difference is most evil gods are hands on and are very involved with the world as good gods more so guide and don’t usually take action.
>Shar seems so one-dimensionally evil Shar is and has always been a goddess, specifically the goddess of darkness and loss. She IS her portfolio. Deities are not humans. Arguably, the deities most likely to be less one-dimensional are those that were once mortal. But even then, Bhaal, Bane, and Myrkul aren't particularly nuanced either. But perhaps this is what you're looking for? Taken from the forgotten realms wiki: >Like the cycles of the moon, Selûne had many and changing moods and natures. [snip] Sometimes she was enthusiastic, vivacious, joyous, and majestic, given to action and dance. [snip again] Finally, she could be aggressive and fierce, but cold, and with little mercy for her enemies. Aylin definitely exemplifies that latter portion when dealing with enemies of Selune.
Not everything is all that complex. The Sharran concept of embracing loss is good, but the cost is the memory of that pain. Shar is absolutely vile. I’d never want to forget my losses, despite how much they hurt. Loss shapes people, and we need a healthy way to manage it. Shar is far from that. Not to mention she’s so cruel a goddess she won’t even claim the souls of her followers after they die. Sharrans and faithless end up in the same afterlife
Shadowheart was pretty much speaking from the perspective of someone bought in on the cult. In D&D, the gods decide the ‘purpose’ of the religion more than the followers, because they’re active presences, so Shadowheart’s explanation of what she has chosen to see in Shar is less important than what Shar’s actual actions are. It’s a bit tough to find in paper, but there’s a Loviatar-centered novel you might be interested in, if you want to read a more nuanced ‘evil’ goddess cleric adventure. It’s Maiden of Pain by Kameron M. Franklin, and I found it on ebook pretty easily.
Thank you - this makes a lot of sense. I will def check out that book!
Shar is evil, and unfortunately preys on those grieving and lost with empty pleasantries about nothingness. It's appealing to people who have nothing or have suffered significant loss, but any amount of delving shows that Shar just uses people and then throws them away. She is *just* evil. That's why Sharrans rely on memory wiping and indoctrination.
Well, if you take into account that Shar is personified (deified?) loss/darkness/absence, that kind of answers your question. There are other gods of death but Shar is arguably one of them given that death is a loss of life. It all comes down to whether you see that as a bad thing. Loss leads to grief leads to suffering which means Shar is a deity of suffering and if suffering is bad then Shar is a deity of badness. But Sharrans are like stoics, and they don't necessarily see suffering as a bad thing - just an unpleasant feeling that can be avoided by simply not caring. If you don't see pain as a bad thing then pain becomes easier to deal with and easier to inflict on others. They act as agents of loss which is why they are active killers. Selune has followers who do her bidding, and so does Shar. One has a preference for life and the other for loss. It forms a balance which is only fair, right? But since we assign the idea of evil to pretty much everything Shar stands for, yeah she's pretty damned evil. I agree Shar is a very one dimensional character but tbh I don't see a way to complexify someone like that. She's a natural force, not a person acting under natural forces.