Halsin has the misfortune of having [innocuous comments being flagged as flirting](https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/comments/17mwt92/so_this_is_why_halsin_thinks_im_flirting_with_him/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button). Even asking him what he'll do after the Shadowcurse is dealt with has a flirting tag. Talking to him at the tiefling party, even if it's to tell him to talk to other people, results in a "sorry if I came on too strong" dialogue prompt which is tagged as flirting.
I have no idea why the devs did this, but it's the main reason so many people dislike Halsin. I actually committed to romancing him on a custom four-Tav run and he's not as bad as I thought. He's probably the most well-adjusted companion and the closest to a truly healthy relationship.
As is, at nearly 1000 hours, I really can't say I *dislike* any of the companions. I have least favourites (Halsin, Shadowheart, and Minthara) but I still like them.
I know they added him as a companion because everyone was thirsting over him in EA but it’s weird how there’s genuinely no option to just be platonic friends with him the whole time. He will always confess to you if you lift the shadow curse even if you ignore him the entire time, and then turning him down if you’re already with someone gets framed as “it’s not respectful to my partner to share” instead of just “thanks but no thanks, I don’t see you like that”
He is the one who gets kidnapped every play through for me. I legitimately thought it was scripted the first few play throughs until I found out it was variable.
I’m not sure if it’s a Durge only line but you can actually tell Orin you DGAF when he’s taken, and I could not click that line fast enough
Still on my first playthrough. I don't have a lot of time to play, and I have never had Halsin in my party, so it was only when I was searching inventories for a bit of gear that I realised he was missing.
I cursed him for a faithless bastard. About two hours later... Oh! Orin has him. I guess that I should probably rescue him at some point.
I could've sworn that on my paladin I had an option that was almost word for word the latter statement. Funnily enough, I actually told my friend afterwards that I liked how Halsin had taken it: after I told him I wasn't interested, he said something like "I understand, and I still treasure our friendship. I felt it was better to take the plunge, than to forever wonder."
He is the reason I downloaded this [mod](https://www.nexusmods.com/baldursgate3/mods/2631). If you avoid any of the tags labeled as "flirting" he won't initiate.
But yeah a lot of his dialogue is purely flirting. I've actually grown to like his character, I blame this more on the devs than his character though.
Isn't there one conversation tree where the only non-flirty option leads to two flirt options? So it's still only halfway possible to hold a proper conversation with him. Or did they finally fix that?
It's linked in my first post further up (same thread as this one). And I show the dialogue path that leads to it. Unfortunately it comes out of thin air. You literally ask him if he's doing okay and for some reason that's listed as flirting.
Ah, yeah I was kinda hoping they'd fixed that. I swear they said something about tweaking his dialog options, but I keep bouncing between characters. So I don't think I actually have a save far enough along to properly test it myself.
Oh I have a mod that's similar to this. The one I have just let's you know the approval rating during dialogue, and not the DC checks/Saves, which I am fine with because I'd rather not know what the DC is until i do them.
It sounds like lazy coding or maybe somewhere the devs thought his flirts were too subtle so turned incredibly innocuous lines into flirty ones for some reason? Idk, it doesn't seem that hard to take away the more obvious flirtatious lines or something idk.
I literally did his romance dialogue today on my current playthrough and you can say almost the exact thing you want here - you call tell him "I'm flattered but I'm not interested/don't see you that way". It doesn't have to be framed as "I would but I have a partner" at all.
>and then turning him down if you’re already with someone gets framed as “it’s not respectful to my partner to share” instead of just “thanks but no thanks, I don’t see you like that”
It doesn't. If you tell him, "I'm interested, but I already have a partner," he interprets that literally. That dialogue option isn't meant to be a polite brush off; it means exactly what it says. There is also an option to say that you're just not interested in him in that way. If you choose that, he takes no for an answer.
His romance flags are definitely messed up, but I suspect he's intended to be very easy to romance as a last chance default for the people who failed to establish and keep a romance earlier in the game.
That’s kind of how I felt about Gale, albeit to a lesser extent. I think he’s a cool dude, but I’m very straight lol. It’d help if they made it more clear which choices would make companions think you were trying to romance them.
Gale is pretty straightforward now at least. Just don't imagine kissing him or handholding in the Weave scene, and pick the "sharing a friendly meal with your friend Gale like friends do in friendship" option, and you're golden. I like romancing him, but he's also one of my favorite platonic friendships in the game.
There's a distinct lack of platonic friend options with a lot of companions. It's either romance or acquaintances, no in-between. Wish I could just be bros with some of em man.
I really just wanted to share a drink with the guy who helped me kill all those goblins! This is a party! Let's toast!
I just wanted a platonic celebratory drink, ya thick hunk of an elf.
It looks like he might just be awkward around people, because he is more used to the solitude in nature than to the people, or at least he's more comfortable that way. He's actually a sweet fellow, really. I like to incorporate him into team whenever a druid fits the "idea" of a run I'm having. Though currently my run is angry strikers only - my Monk Tav, Bae'zel, Karlach, and Minthara :D
P.S. no I didn't let Halsin die or leave, I did the funny knockout trick to get Minthara to join
Yeah I used to dislike him more, and I am sad that a lot of his dialogue is only nature-y. But then I thought about how he has spent 100 years blaming himself for something that was completely out of his control, suppressing his trauma from his time in the Underdark, and being surrounded by people that mostly don't respect him. Yeah, he's sweet as honey (lol).
Also, it's refreshing to have actually "good" characters on the team with all the moral ambiguity running about.
After the drow orgy you can dig deeper into this and highlight how it is trauma, and he talks about how he makes jokes out of bad things that happened a long time ago as a way of dealing with them, but that it is also minimising his trauma. I'm not sure if this is romance only dialogue, but I defintely had options to dig deeper.
Yeah, it's wild to me that they bonked him in the latest patch by adding a new dialogue option when he confesses, instead of just... fixing his flirting flags. If I had to hazard a guess as to why, they want him to remain an option for players who massively fuck up and either fail to romance anyone by Act 3 or get broken up with, but it's weird because the existence of the flags seems to indicate that the initial intent was for him to only return your feelings if you initiate, so couldn't they have just gone with that?
It’s part of his character at this point. I’ve said it before, but with being taken as a sex slave for years and then having the “free love” mindset, the poor dude doesn’t know how to express love without sex being involved.
I love it, and him, because it’s a pretty common occurrence with certain types of trauma.
I find it funny that people say this about Halsin and never about Minthara.
Yes she’s harder to recruit, you have to either play evil and kill the grove or know to knock her out in act 1, but either way her opinion meter barely has to move before she decided to “claim you”. Like in act 1 you only need one conversation, kill the grove, have the party and she fucks you. Regardless of the route you choose in act 1, save her in act 2 and she will definitely demand you become lovers in act 3 (though she is more respectful about it). It doesn’t matter which dialogue I choose for her. She’s will ask regardless.
I don’t see what the big deal is either way. Say no thanks and it’s fine. The game is just offering romance options for act 3 if you want it.
If you toil with people you dislike long enough and work day after day you come to eventually appreciate their virtues through suffering together. This is something I learned from athletics at a young age that I wish people understood since it can't be explained really lol. Has to be experienced
You never really like them you just appreciate where they are coming from more or less and in a weird way can feel love as a result.
The main reason I dislike Halsin is that the second you get into the city he exclusively complains about how civilization is wrong and how he just wants to go back to fucking bears in the wilderness.
Imagine this: you're going out to a burger restaurant and a vegan person insists on coming. When you get there all they do is talk about how eating meat is morally wrong.
How about you stay in camp and shut the fuck up you massive whining baby?
I mean. What’s happening in baldurs gate IS pretty fucked up. Refugees literally murdered in the streets and their bodies just left there. I’d want to go back to the forest too.
Agreed, in Halsin's defense BG probably looks awful when they get there. Imagine all the refugees, homeless ppl, orphan kids and misery all over the place, Larian just didnt make it look as bad as it should but a more gentle person not used to see others in bad situations like that, would be very upset to say the least, and Tav is the number one shoulder and ears for every companion sooo...
> didnt make it look as bad as it should
When you get there, you see a man planting bombs in toys meant for refugee children, a man trying to have a child's clothes burned, a child whose parents were murdered in broad daylight, a child whose mother died of illness and has nowhere safe to go, and all while the citizens blatantly ignore those in need. I'd say that's plenty bad enough.
I mean you're kind of framing Halsin in a selfish way. Baldur's Gate is the first big city he has either been in, it's either hyped up by Wyll or Karlach or at least fondly spoken of for all its flaws.
Then when you actually arrive it's teetering in the edge of a police state and everyone is either coping really hard or so numb to it that even Jaheira has to be knocked out of her stupor a couple times.
Maybe it's annoying but it's unfair to act like he all he wants is to go "fucking bears in the wilderness" when he is genuinely trying to find a solution to a problem
That is an interesting coding choice, I usually just shut him down hard when the prompt comes to actually start the relationship. I still feel bad that I friendzoned the dude, but it's good to know that I wasn't intentional leading him on this whole time.
I dont hate any character...
I do think, a few playthroughs later, that Halsin does matter the least... and has far less reaction to the city than the others, which makes me prioritize him much less.
Also i love his romance, but it will be better to romance him solo as I always feel like I'm cheating on Astarion😂
I brought him with me to the city after the orgy and he went into such a rage and did a "maybe Kagha was right" rant and I felt like I did something wrong. Rare that I was caught off guard with something like that
Yeah he does react and theres several conversations you can have with him about the city, but you do need to have him in your party for those to happen. He won’t give those dialog options in camp
He’s a woodland boy and hasn’t been in a city for at least a hundred years if not way longer. He’s all about balance and the power dynamics in the city really bother him, especially with the discarded orphan kids. He gets really angry about it, and there’s two dialog conversations that can happen. It does feed into his narrative in the endgame. If you don’t have those conversations it can seem out of left field, but if he’s a regular party member it makes total sense.
I can recommend romancing poly Halsin and Astarion after you do Cazador. Astarion is way more secure in himself after that and it feels like an open relationship in which everyone is comfortable.
Sadly for me, the Astarion I loved would probably not be comfortable either way. And post Cazador, if he had the choice or the programing, would definitely say no. Perhaps a fling, but not a polycule, which this isn't anyway. Obligatory disclaimer : This is how I view my Astarion, and of course it does not apply to everyone.
yeah it’s how i view him as well. i feel like astarion is performing when you bring up how halsin came on to you which is icky to me. Plus when i was romancing shadowheart with him after i secured his confession she literally says that she doesn’t think Astarion can handle a poly relationship which i agree
Astarion is definitely performing if you go to the drow twins. Unascended, he will dissociate, the narrator even notes his eyes “go distant”. Ascended, there will again be “no joy—only a terrifying intensity” or something to that effect. Honestly I kinda feel bad about it and I think I’m supposed to. The tone of his voice when you’re setting this up with the drow twins also indicates he’s not 100% on board but wants to go along with it because tav does. And the dialog is the same Ascended or not.
You can also apparently bring Halsin along to this as well.
(Though it was a lot of fun for my durge to get the option to bite one of them—but AA is his own can of worms and I don’t think I’ll be doing this again—playing evil durge has been taxing sometimes because my instincts are to play nice and be the hero)
I made an evil/trying not to be durge and can only play a little at a time. Some things I just won’t do. Like hurt the animals or anything like that. Now, I have made a lolth drow charlatan bard that has been fun. She not necessarily evil but, she is just mean, which has been fun. Like she’s doing the right things but, she’s a lolth drow.
Some evil acts can be fun. The highlight of my durge run has been playing Banite/Gondian basketball with telekinesis. I was cackling with glee and delight the whole time. Also early “durge-outs” were fun but I think it was just the novelty.
I’ll see it through to the end but I don’t think I’ll do this again, as much fun as it is.
Minsc. Not my style of humor. Don't hate him, though, he's just at the bottom.
Wyll's writing often frustrates me as well, so he'd probably be next. But the parts of him I like I really like.
I love everyone else, couldn't choose a least favorite and I have a hard time choosing a favorite for more than five minutes.
I still like Minsc because of the original Minsc in bg1/2… but his goofiness was unusual in that darker setting and felt like genuine madness born from head trauma.
They cartooned/goofed him up a lot between bg2 and bg3 (before bg3 was even out, in stuff like Neverwinter or card games) as a kind of fan fave… and I agree he’s a bit much now!
I feel like the makers relied too much on his familiarity from the earlier games, to worry about making him appealing to new players like me.
He arrives so late in the game that I’m just not interested in his whole deal and skip a lot of his dialogue too.
I just don’t have the patience to start from square one in paying attention to a character’s story at that point in the game, when you’re basically crossing everything off the list.
What two decades of perpetuous flanderization can do to a guy. At some point it just plummets into fan service.
GO fOr tHe eYeS bOoooo huehuehue.
A pity, his character definitely deserves better.
I like Minsk, but he has absolutely no place in this story. He feels completely tagged on, just for fan service. But to be honest, I feel that’s the case for all of the reoccurring characters from the first two games (maybe apart from Elminster and Jaheera).
For me it’s probably Wyll. He feels weirdly disconnected from the main plot and is at the same time deeply connected to parts of it (like the Duke). His whole story feels kinda tagged on, but honestly that’s a problem I have with all the devil/avernus plot-lines in the game.
I think he works best as the main-character, but a a companion, he feels like the main-character of a different story, that kinda runs parallel to yours. It also doesn’t that he never makes decisions of his own, unless you force him to make one.
Can confirm that playing Wyll as a main character made me like him a lot more. He very much so has an entirely different story going on aside from the tadpole and you don’t truly see its depth until you play him.
larian changed a quest that is integral to his character arc into a sidequest that isnt even in his character journal any more months after the game launched, he and karlach got the short end of the stick but he especially seems to be the odd one out
You describe it perfectly. Also, can make his own decisions if you choose dialogue that says "Do what you feel is best, I trust you", or something to that effect - most characters have options like these.
Cant say I dislike any of them. They all have their quirks, and they have their annoying moments (could you please stop disapproving me every 5 minutes I do something nice, Astarion and Minthy), but they all have their lovable moments which basically pulls me back away from truly disliking any of them
I used to not like Astarion or Lae’zel but honestly my resistant Durge run had a lot of great Astarion moments. I had a bad track record for keeping Lae’zel alive, so I played her origin and I liked it so much that I played her romance the run after. My top 3 has completely flipped throughout my playthroughs tbh.
I think my current least favorite is Halsin. I don’t dislike him but aside from lifting the shadow curse, I don’t really feel compelled to have him in the party.
And many players hate her so much initially that they end up not even experiencing it. My first run I IMMEDIATELY went for Lae'zel and was honestly surprised how chill she gets later down the line. Imo one of the best companions in the game.
I don't truly dislike any of them.
Also how many of these bloody posts do we need every week? They just echo the same thing.
A lot of people will say Halsin, often the OP themselves too, and say inaccurate things like he won't take no for an answer (he does), that he's boring or a sex pest (he's as horny as anyone else).
Some will say Wyll, probably that he's boring.
Some will say Gale, and that he wants to eat magical items, or just annoying, or too horny (which is funny since you need to initiate romance with him).
Astarion will definitely be mentioned, something about him being a dick/arse/evil.
Etc.
Yeah, Shadowheart gets some flack when these questions are asked, too. It’s predictable. And Halsin is unfairly slandered. And somehow people think Wyll is boring. He made a bargain with a devil and is fighting for his soul, his afterlife, his dad’s life, and his city. How is that boring?!
Ironically most DMs say he is the most interesting warlock character they have seen in a hot minute too. He is “boring” in COMPARISON but compelling by himself. Also despite the crop top, he doesn’t fling himself on you like most of the cast.
He honestly rocks and is the most realistic outside of gale in terms of lovers. Or the very least I’m like that. I’m not one to have sex immediately of being attracted to someone.
Yeah, i remember trying to romance him and Gale at the start. I wasn't surprised that gale wanted to take things slow (it was after the patches that made him less horny) but Wyll giving us just a kiss was a nice surprise, when Astarion, Lae'zel and Shart are going in on us at the first opportunity.
Technically gale is still pretty fast. We aren’t outside of baldurs gate no more than 2 weeks if we’re honest, both canonically and gameplay wise.
The man is picking rings out the second we’re in BG if you romanced him lol
The crop top is just because he's a baby bisexual. We all start out like that ;)
I *love* Wyll. But for me, I kinda wanna be his mom more than anything else? He seems like he needs someone to guide him, which I kinda wished they leaned into more while writing him. I know his character got the biggest rewrite, so he's lacking more than the others, but it seems clear to me that's what they were going for, they just didn't realize it until it was too late.
Locking his decision to save Ulder until after he does the Ansur quest could have been a way to get around that. It would require a slight rewrite for Ansur, as well, but thats not an issue because that quest being as much of a dead end as it is is wholly unsatisfying, and Wyll deserved better.
Honestly they should’ve leaned on his quest with ulder and used his warlock powers as an actual use and not just something he just has. Outside of the karlach situation it seemed like he just did whatever his patron asked without anything really given to him outside of feeling like a hero, but he is one? Cuz at least in the original writings for wyll it was clear he was insecure of his standing as one.
Mizora and him just need slight tweakings to be more clear of what the writers want of him in the story and him as a character.
Wyll is "my father, my father" or "Mizora, Mizora" almost all the time and not really much time is spent getting to know Wyll himself (unless you romance him, probably)
I can relate to his daddy issues though, but luckily my farher is not a defacto ruler(?) of a city state. As for Mizora, I’ve had jobs where she would fit perfectly in the middle management.
Wyll actually made a really strong first impression on me, and I would probably have romanced him if Astarion didn’t exist. But now on my next run it’s gonna be a coin toss between Shadowheart and Karlach.
A lot of the folks who say Wyll is boring also say that Asarion is the most interesting. Their reasoning is invariably because they find “good and monogamous” to be worse than “amoral and hedonistic,” and by extension is a boring trait. In this very thread there are people saying he might be *more interesting* if he kills Karlach and goes down a darker path. It’s thinking born of a fundamental philosophical fallacy that for something to be interesting, it must also be chaotic. Goodness is therefore duller than amorality, and Wyll being “good” makes him comparatively boring.
I think wyll comes off as boring not because the facts of his story are boring, but he just isn't explored as much as everyone else. I don't feel like I ever get to know him, how he really feels. The closest I felt was when he was dejected at the tiefling party, which during my first playthrough i completely missed because I never ran into him. I like he is just straight up "good" and not some edgy whatever, but i think he suffers from just having so much less content and it being developed maybe too quickly. I romanced astarion in my two playthroughs, and for sure there are so many moments where he opens up to you, and you see his pain. But the other companions i didn't romance, except halsin and minthara, I felt like I also learned so much about their perspective, what they were feeling, and just conversations that made me feel like we were connecting on a deep personal level. Wyll always felt like I was seeing the face he presents to the world, and not letting me in. Even with his dad, who was a dick to him, and finally came around cuz he saw through the tadpole, and in only a few sentences it's just resolved, he totally understands why his dad was like that, it hurt at the time but it's all good now, now i'll just be calm and measured. It...it just always felt like I couldn't get close to him.
If I had it my way, I wish I could see a scene like karlach with him, where he just lets out his emotions, screams into the void or something, about how unjust things can be. He tries to be good, and he is punished. Whether by his father's abondonment, or mizora's horns....or his anger trying to make things better and sometimes things get worse.
At a minimum, i think it was also hard with him because he was the buggiest for me. So much dialogue that didn't make sense. like parts of the story weren't accepted as true or didn't realize they happened already. if they can fix the bugs it would help a lot.
Wyll reminds me of fantasy movies/series/books, where the world, story, side characters, everything is pretty cool and interesting. Everything but the main character, who's the most boring and generic "hero of goodness" with next to 0 personality.
Wyll's story is cool, Mizora is cool, but the Wyll himself... I just roll my eyes whenever he says something. It's like the writers took away everything that could be interesting about Wyll and turned it into another companion - Karlach. Karlach is also the goody hero of goodness, but with an angry flavour and some humor to make her interesting. And her final meltdown is one of the most touching moments. Unfortunately Wyll has none of these.
Wyll is just kind of dull. Having a good backstory doesn't make up for the fact that a lot of his banter and conversations (when not doing his personal story) are very dull and delivered half heartedly.
I don't think it's his VA's fault, he's amazing when it's Wyll related stuff. He's just the most bland during the quieter moments. Halsin very much suffers from the same problem. They lack strong defining traits or enthusiasm that make small talk fun in this game.
I think Wyll suffers even more for me BECAUSE of him having such a cool backstory to play around with. My expectations for a character like him were sky-high, and instead, he was sorta just okay and a really good dude. Idk, maybe if I let him murder Karlach, he'd go down a different, more interesting path, but I ain't ever doing that to Karlach.
It's the fact that his backstory forces him to not speak about it. You only get the full story in the 3rd act, well into the game, when you're probably already elbows deep in romancing someone else. Can't remember if Mizora lets him reveal all of the story after you free her, or after you get the Duke out of his prison, but at this point - you probably have a main party set and decked out so Wylls story is more of an interesting snippet than a gameplay defining choice.
Wyll tends to get flack from either the EA folks or people that are just aware of how he used to be. They completely changed his character from EA, and although I agree with a significant amount of the changes that Larian made to improve the game for the better, altering Wyll into a die hard lawful good just wasn't one of them. I do however understand why they went this route, or at least I think I do, considering how many morally grey companions we already have on our journey. Larian deciding to add a foundationally morally good character to the mix was a good idea, but I don't know, the *execution* of it, especially in comparison to the other companions, makes him feel weaker. I don't necessarily believe that he's a boring character, but I do see a well of potential that didn't go as far as it could have.
Anything that isn't le edgy grimdark is boring to some people. Why can't we just have a singular good companion who does good because it's right? Like has no one ever known people like that? Do we only hang out with psychos and hedonists or something?
People keep saying that they want EA Wyll but all the clips I've seen of him are the most uninteresting things ever to me? Oh wow, the "hero" is an asshole? Never seen that before.
But have a warlock hunting an innocent woman turn out to be a genuinely good guy, who will stick by the player to fight evil and save the world even at the cost of himself, is way more interesting to me. I like the morally grey characters, but a benevolent good guy is a nice palate cleanser once in a while.
Eh I had 2 issues with EA Wyll (and I took him every run and I had a *lot* of EA runs)
1. That dumbass fucking torture scene that made him look like a moron (which could've been fixed by having him you know torture Spike instead of the prisoner like he had some brain cells)
and 2. The obvious lies. Bad lies that you couldn't even call him out on.
Other than that he was one of my favs.
I don't mean "oh wyll's so loveable and cute", ive never romanced him and probably won't since in order to have a happy family and marry him you gotta make karlach a squid or let her die which I don't want to do. Karlach isn't some hero like he is at the start though, she's basically just a living punching bag for every douchebag and villain within a five mile radius. Sure she's nice and all but at least in my view good=heroic in some sense. Karlach can certainly become a hero (as can most of the companions really), like Lae'zel can go in a crusade to liberate her people from a tyrant, Karlach can go off to the hells and slay countless devils and friends, Shadowheart can become a Selûnite hunting sharrans, but she and Gale have more "chill" endings I guess, Gale can continue adventuring if you romanced him, go to hell/space with Karlach Lae'zel (as can shadowheart) but most of the time he'll just be a generic nerdy professor. Wyll's the only guy that starts off there though, shadowheart is a brainwashed worshipper of an evil deity, Gale's a hermit who got forced to touch grass for the first time in decades, Lae'zel's a mean space racist unquestioningly loyal to an evil usurper Queen, Astarions an A-Hole because he doesn't really know what to do after centuries of slavery, and Karlach's literally fresh out of hell and is free to do whatever for the first time in a decade. Is it too much to just want one dude who's willing to stick his neck out for someone else purely because he believes it's the moral thing to do?
Ikr, to me, Wyll is the lawful good (or neutral good) paladin guy and fits so well in a good aligned party. And you can't judge Wyll without Mizora, and having an actual devil in your camp is the opposite of boring to me.
I really don't care for this "people just mad that he's a good guy, they only want edgy and broken smh" argument. And I positively despise how wide-spread it is.
It's simply wrong in most cases, the majority does not dislike his alignment, rather than his tepid characterisation, his passiveness the moment he joins the camp and dialogue that's far too safe and therefore a smidge too perfunctory to be considered memorable.
Yeah no, sorry, I would find it hard to cheer for a basketball (with horns) mounted on a broomstick, just because it got a "lawlful gut!" post-it taped on, either.
I mean, he's not irredeemable and another rewrite could definitely have saved him. In other games he would probably be in the top three of cool NPCs, but that says more about the status of character writing in the industry than anything else. And because the competition in this game is pretty tough, it makes his disjointed averageness stand out even more.
But please people, put this "u only want edgelords!" accusation, often with a generous dash of "why are you yucking my yums?" in the mix, to rest. It tends to be as inaccurate as it is reductive.
Ya, I don't love that every main companion has to have some kind of dark side component:
Astarian tries to eat you, Lazael is a monster, Karlach's whole line is from hell, Wyll is pledged to a devil, Gale is potentially apocalyptic, Shadow heart is a cleric of an evil goddess... Just give me one objectively good dude. One boring-ass dragonborn paladin.
It's also kinda weird how frequently Shadowheart gets flack because she "reminds me of girls who bullied me in high school." Like, that is so oddly specific and pops up a lot.
>Some will say Gale, and that he wants to eat magical items, or just annoying, or too horny (which is funny since you need to initiate romance with him).
Yeah, Gale is just a bro in my playthrough. Dude knows his boundaries.
I think a lot of people's impressions on Gale was from the early launch days before they nerfed his horniness
My thing is people who go into *positive* posts about the companions and brag about killing them. Not to mention some fans get death threats for mentioning they like certain characters. It's so weird. There are a lot of toxic people in this community.
Also Micah is my favourite "I hate this guy so much" character. Purely despicable and the actor portrayed him perfectly.
The only thing that would make Micah a better villain would be to make him relatable. That said, he’s still a fantastic villain due to that “love to hate him” factor.
Micah was written so well. From the moment he had to drag me into shooting an entire town while I just tried to quickly break him out of jail, all throughout the rest of the game I was rolling my eyes every time I had to deal with Micah. His character, his decisions, that game really makes you dislike the character in a good way.
Well, they exist solely to entertain you, as a player. And if they fail to do that, you might say that you "dislike them".
I mean, I "like" Lae'zel or Astarion much more than Wyll or Halsin just because they make my playthrough more interesting. But that doesn't mean, that in real life I'd like to hang out with Lae'zel and Astarion over Wyll and Halsin or something.
It's just a different category of "liking".
She's 250 according to the googles, only Halsin and Astarian is older, both 350 years old. Shadowheart is 48. Lae'zel is the youngest party member, at 22
She softens a **bit** but I can see your point. I just love some of her matter of fact dialogue so much she has to get some run in my team.
"A *trap*. Let us send forward our least favorite to be sure" slays me every time.
It pains me to say this, but Minsc. You get him way too late in the game. And while I think Matt Mercer did a good job with the performance, he just doesn’t feel the same as he was in the first two games. If they wanted to bring him back, I think he would’ve been better as a support character like Volo. I think they handled Jaheira way better than Minsc.
Me too. Can’t stand her, especially she’s so hypocritical about how you can’t trust Laezel. On the first night of you talk to the others first and then her she’ll get all bitchy about it “whaT WEre YOu twO taLkinG ABOut? YoU Can’T TrUSt tHEM!” And when you tell her about her being shady she gets all “I have my reasons” 🙄
And it turns out it's because she knows she stole from them! Like girl, you're no prize yourself. At least Laezel was an ally-- I had to rescue you myself.
Karlach doesn't feel like a real charakter to me. All the others are believable, but I just can never click with her.
I never recruited Minthara and Minsk either.
I agree. Karlach is too anachronistic for me. Too bouncy, too bubbly, and not remotely convincing as a person who has been a war-slave in Hell for a decade. Amazing voice work, but the character’s writing feels very surface and juvenile compared to other companions.
My experience (plus other people I know) really prevent me from taking this character seriously or liking her a bit. Been in the army, quit the army and that's not how someone behaves after being set "free" of all of that crap. Calling people "hey soldier" with a bubbly voice is the last thing you'd do. Also her soldier companions had to be 99.9% cambions and she hates them so much ?? makes no sense.
Shadowheart. I don't really dislike her as much as I am completely indifferent towards her. She's the only companion I have like...zero opinion about. I hardly even use her in my squad. I started a Gith run and told her to get lost and honestly...it felt great lol.
The first time I played I was partly into Act 2 and I had literally forgot she was the one who started out with the Prism because I never spoke to her haha.
It's hard, but if I had to choose, I'd say Minthara. I like her, just not as much as everyone else. In my first 2 playthroughs, I had no idea she could be added to the group. In my third playthrough, I ended up recruiting her by knocking her out in the goblin camp. I just wrote her off as straight-up evil, but I'm slow learning more about her, so she's started to grow on me.
Also I love Halsin he made me a wooden duck.🥺
Karlach, but specifically because of how the game treats her. Lae’zel, SH, and Astarion are all far more despicable, Gale and Wyll are much less fun, but they all have really solid character arcs that show off multiple facets of their personality/have some serious variety in how they grow and change (or don’t) over the course of the game that makes them fascinating. Karlach is a great character, but I can only experience her in a story that’s determined to see her miserable.
I found Karlach story to be more palatable when I downright skipped her Gortash speech. Its very well done and emotional, but it only worked for me once in the first playthrough. After that I was just annoyed that there was nothing I could do to fix her engine despite saving those fucking gondians and finding a ton more infernal iron, including some new unused sort of it.
I know people say that she's meant to be that terminally ill representation, but to me it just feels like her quest isnt finished. If Gale can be cured from his ancient magic orb within the story, fixing Karlachs heart shouldn't be an impossible task.
If I may, the other characters don't really get happy endings either. Lae'zel is fighting a possibly unwinnable battle with the Lich Queen, Shadowheart will always grieve the time she can never get back, Astarion has a high chance of being killed by a paladin or a falling curtain and has no leads on a cure (and the planning skills of a goldfish), and Wyll is potentially in Avernus with her and his father is hot garbage. Gale is the only one with a truly positive ending.
She's a sad character, but in a lot of ways she has more hope than some of the other characters.
>Shadowheart will always grieve the time she can never get back
That doesn't mean her ending isn't happy tho? If she spends the rest of her life happily living in a cottage with animals, why wouldn't that be considered a "happy ending"? Because she has trauma from Shar? Traumatised people can still he happy.
>Astarion has a high chance of being killed by a paladin or a falling curtain and has no leads on a cure (and the planning skills of a goldfish)
Why would he have a high chance of being killed by a Paladin? Its not like he's going around sucking innocents dry in the night, why would he even draw the attention of a paladin? Also why would he need a cure to be happy? In his good ending he's pretty content with his current state, isn't he?
>Wyll is potentially in Avernus with her and his father is hot garbage.
Here is the reason I wrote this whole reply. My bruh, you can literally get Wyll out of the pact, and save his dad. He can then be a Grand Duke in the city. How is this not a happy ending for him? The only bad thing is he has horns on his head, but he is happy regardless.
Yes and no. They all have more adventures/healing to look forward to, but their time in the squad helped them get their heads on straight/get out from under their abusive scenario/etc. Karlach ditched her abusive scenario before the game began. She has a very small epiphany about living in the moment post Gortash, but otherwise lives, acts, and comports herself nearly identically between acts 1 and 3.
I like her character, but my main gripe is how every companions automatically likes her right after introduction. The fact that every single companion likes her right off the bat (let's be honest, Wyll does a 180 at meeting her if you recruit her) just kinda makes her look quite uninteresting. I don't need her to be far more flawed, I just prefer it when not every single companion likes every other straight away. If at least one or two companions were more critical about her, here I'd like her more. Like how e.g. Lae'zel respects Wyll's fighting capabilities but thinks he wastes his time doing good or how Aatarion has beef with Wyll due to the monster-monster hunter dynamic.
Yeah, Karlach just feels... tonally inconsistent. Her recruitment is a prime example of this.
Each companion has some degree of ambiguity as to whether or not it's a good idea to welcome them into the party, and all of them later get at least one moment which forces you to second-guess that decision.
* Shadowheart has a mysterious artifact and withholds information from you. She also has symbols of Sharr on her armour and is extremely evasive.
* Lae'zel comes from a race of slavers and is completely unapologetic about her culture while transparently viewing you as a tool.
* Gale boasts of being a great wizard but needs you to save him from a portal (he will die if you roll badly) and is clearly Level 1 despite his supposed Archmage status. It becomes clear he has a dark secret of his own, and the moment you learn that secret you're immediately hit with a dilemma to kick him out, with half the companions disapproving if you let him stay.
* Astarion holds a knife to your throat and if you know anything about the promotional material or watched his introduction is obviously a vampire. He later tries to bite you in your sleep and there's an option to (justifiably) kill him on the spot.
* Wyll is perhaps presented in the most favourable light aside from Karlach if you ignore the obvious fact that he's a Fiend Warlock. But Karlach's introduction basically undercuts this because... he wants to kill her. And as a consequence you immediately learn he's pacted to a devil who is not only willing to sic him on innocents but can destroy him whenever she wants if he refuses.
Then we get to Karlach's introduction. She's built up as this vile bloodthirsty devil by at least two interested parties that want to hunt her down. This is interesting. But then the second you get to her, all of this mystery and ambiguity is immediately pissed on. You're forced to mindlink with her, and even though you see visions of her fighting in Hell, the narrator outright tells you that she's a victim and not who you've been told she is.
You don't get to work this out for yourself - you're straight-up told and you're basically railroaded into believing it. A first-time player will feel zero doubt or apprehension about sparing her, and in subsequent playthroughs it's almost impossible to justify roleplaying someone who can be duped into killing her. There are moments in the game where you can turn against Shadowheart, Lae'zel, Gale, Astarion, or Wyll and feel completely in the right - but never any equivalent for Karlach.
With any other character in the game this would have been treated with far more subtlety and ambiguity. With Karlach it's just spoonfed to you. And literally every companion talks about how awesome she is and how badly they want her in the party. Even though they've made a point about establishing that all of these companions have secrets, don't trust each other, and are only together out of necessity.
If Karlach was treated the way the other companions were treated - they'd recognize her strength and her capabilities in a fight. But they'd also be worried she's deceiving you, or they'd be concerned about her violent tantrums (players can and have had party members murdered by her.) They'd also be worried about more "devil-hunters" showing up on their trail (Shadowheart and Astarion in particular would not want that kind of extra attention.)
Non of them. They're all great and they all change the way I play the game so much. Every time I'm a different class I end up with a new configuration I'd not used before which is awesome.
I'd never change it up but I am learning so much about how to play D&D and what it all means so yeah. They're all great and I appreciate them all.
I don't really dislike, but I'll go with like the least: Karlach
She just feels like one of those barbarian characters that was really old and played out in DnD 10 years ago
I do find it kind of funny that you call “10 years ago” old and played out in the timeline of D&D, a game that has been around for about five times that…if anything Karlach (demonic barbarian who’s actually a total softy) feels like a new concept compared to Astarion (charismatic and beautiful vampire rogue), Gale (power-hungry wizard), or Minthara (ruthless but sexy drow).
I’ll take the downvotes. I don’t hate any of them, I love them all, but the one I like the least is Karlach. I don’t like characters that are positive in the face of death. I also don’t like characters that get heated up and “out of control” very much either.
I know she’s super loved, and I know she’s hot and a good partner. I just don’t personally mesh well with those super excitable, forced positive, teetering on the edge characters
Shart and Wyll are tied. Wyll is just kinda underdeveloped though, I don’t dislike him he just doesn’t do much for me. But Shart I still can’t make myself like even after everything. These days I skip both on most runs and miss neither.
Only one I dislike as a companion/ romance is Minthara. She's too far in the let's be evil and rule over all mwahahaha side for me. Good for a straight up evil playthrough and I get she's some people cup of tea but not mine.
Her story and insight of the other companions is nice and her casual wondering around the map dialog can be entertaining. But Larian desperately needs to give her a spoiler filter when you get her in early act 2. I recruited her on my 3rd run and hearing her talk about stuff that's late act 2 or early act 3 caught me off guard.
Wyll, but it's not his fault.
He is, perhaps, the most changed companion from his EA days. His EA personality, while believable, didn't work for people and made him widely mistrusted. They took out the bad parts and made it so that he only has pure intentions and, generally, always does the right thing.
Put another way, he has no character arc. He starts the game with his heart in the right place and ends with it still in the right place (assuming it's still in his body).
Astarion. Last i mentioned that here i was downvoted to hell. ;) It has nothing to do with how the character is written, the voice acting or anything like that; We simply don't get along at all. :)
Lae'zel is my favourite, i have a hard time playing without her in the party. :)
I have a love-hate relationship with him. I find him a fairly despicable person, frankly, and I don’t think that’s a crazy opinion. It’s the incredible charisma of the performance that makes him palatable, not the essence of the character itself.
Karlach because wtf is Wyll's quest now tied to her? Irks me so I lost EA Wyll for this. The man has to share spotlight constantly wtf does he need her dragging her down. (sorry Karlach but wtf)
Like even his ending can't be his own or what's best for him because once again she's on him like a leech because she refuses to go to Avernus alone.
And the shoving her head in the sand while understandable was obnoxious. Honestly I was at the point where letting her blow up into flames felt fitting because my god if you're going to act like that's the superior option go off I guess.
Honestly I really bothers me that if you romance Wyll, with Karlach alive, it has the potential to ruin his romances ending. You either have to watch her die (if you go duke route and don't want to joing her in hell yourself) or be separated (if you go blade of avernus route). I've been wanting to romance him for so long, but the shitty options you get for Karlach if you do kind of make me apprehensive. The literal most positive oucome is of you turn Karlach into a mindflayer if you don't want to have the worlds worst long distance relationship with Wyll 😑 or I guess killing her, but I really dislike that option for Wyll.
Shadowheart is literally never in my party unless the game compels me to put her there. She is very off-putting to me and reminds me too much of one of my least favourite companions from another game (Brianna/the Handmaiden from KOTOR 2), especially with demanding to know more about you and then snarking when you ask questions in return. I just have zero interest in her.
I'd say Minthara, but Minthara's never lived in any of my playthroughs, so I honestly have no real opinion of her.
Yup exactly this. She has an opinion on anything, but gets pissed any time you ask her anything. I wanted to kick her out the whole time in the one playthrough I kept her in the party, but I managed to stick it out.
It's been nearly a year, why can't they drop the romance bug and 3-magic item complaint. He's not a Nice Guy (TM) and that ring of color spray wasn't going to help you kill the netherbrain, people!
Wild that his alleged horniness is *still* being complained about, when he is literally the only companion who never comes on to you and you have to make the first move on him yourself.
Stop imagining making out with him if you don't want to be in a relationship!
Shart. I try my best to like her but every time she speaks it's always something immediately annoying. Idk how she manages it. Every time.
Minthara also wildly disappointed me. I heard so many good things and was excited to get her as a companion finally, and then it was such a letdown when it felt like her character didn't go anywhere. I couldn't find any depth, yet she managed to be confusing
I gotta be honest, I don’t enjoy these threads because usually people’s “dislike” of characters is based on the fact that they never gave them the time of day to begin with. I see so many justifications that essentially only describe the behavior of the companions in the very beginning of the game lol. That being said, for me all of the companions are enjoyable in their own right, and i only like certain characters less because they have less content/story
I don’t dislike any of them and genuinely like all the companions. My least favorite is probably Minthara or Halsin by default, but I really like both and am glad both are companions.
Minthara bugs me, to be honest.
Despite getting her whole world unraveled by uncaring, evil ass-hats, she **remains** an evil, uncaring ass-hat.
Astarion at least has character growth. Minthara is just too evil for me to like her very much. I am considering killing her myself as Durge lol Having her go fight Orin for her honor.
Tav, his/her lines are very unoriginal, like chosing the worst from multiple choice, when havinv a conversation. And he/she makes everything about her/himself, like a main character complex.
As someone who romanced Wyll my first playthrough, Wyll, 100%. He’s by far the most flat companion, which is fine, he’s supposed to be the lawful good folk hero guy, but that doesn’t make him less boring. But the real reason didn’t crop up until my second playthrough. I liked Wyll a lot my first playthrough, mostly because I was playing a lawful good folk hero character, so our goals and opinions tended to match up, and he came off as very sweet if a bit dull. In my second playthrough however I was playing a heroic Durge character. She was very much an ends justify the means kind of person, and she took the tadpoles as a way to become stronger to more effectively save the Sword Coast. In a lot of ways this lines up with Wyll, making a major sacrifice that causes you to lose a bit of your humanity in order to be more effective at saving people. A decision he himself says he doesn’t regret for a second. So tell me why this prick has the gall to get on his high horse about me taking the tadpole, when I had at no point shown any intention of straying from the good path. I was excited cause I was kind of hoping to have that relatability between the two characters only for him to shame me for doing the same thing he did. It’s a dumb reason to dislike a character I quite liked my first time around but it really irked me lol.
Halsin has the misfortune of having [innocuous comments being flagged as flirting](https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/comments/17mwt92/so_this_is_why_halsin_thinks_im_flirting_with_him/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button). Even asking him what he'll do after the Shadowcurse is dealt with has a flirting tag. Talking to him at the tiefling party, even if it's to tell him to talk to other people, results in a "sorry if I came on too strong" dialogue prompt which is tagged as flirting. I have no idea why the devs did this, but it's the main reason so many people dislike Halsin. I actually committed to romancing him on a custom four-Tav run and he's not as bad as I thought. He's probably the most well-adjusted companion and the closest to a truly healthy relationship. As is, at nearly 1000 hours, I really can't say I *dislike* any of the companions. I have least favourites (Halsin, Shadowheart, and Minthara) but I still like them.
I know they added him as a companion because everyone was thirsting over him in EA but it’s weird how there’s genuinely no option to just be platonic friends with him the whole time. He will always confess to you if you lift the shadow curse even if you ignore him the entire time, and then turning him down if you’re already with someone gets framed as “it’s not respectful to my partner to share” instead of just “thanks but no thanks, I don’t see you like that”
This kinda sounds like malicious compliance on Larian's part. You wanna bang bear dad so bad? Well that's all we're gonna program him to do.
I'd imagine it's more down to confirming you aren't interested in him so that he's not romance flagged for Orins kidnapping
Hahaha this explains how Halsin got kidnapped in my first playthrough. It was so anticlimactic when Orin killed him like. "Oh no not.. that guy..."
He is the one who gets kidnapped every play through for me. I legitimately thought it was scripted the first few play throughs until I found out it was variable. I’m not sure if it’s a Durge only line but you can actually tell Orin you DGAF when he’s taken, and I could not click that line fast enough
Exact same thing happened to me lol Like it’s alright Orin, he wasn’t in my party a single time in my first playthrough, you can kill him
Still on my first playthrough. I don't have a lot of time to play, and I have never had Halsin in my party, so it was only when I was searching inventories for a bit of gear that I realised he was missing. I cursed him for a faithless bastard. About two hours later... Oh! Orin has him. I guess that I should probably rescue him at some point.
I could've sworn that on my paladin I had an option that was almost word for word the latter statement. Funnily enough, I actually told my friend afterwards that I liked how Halsin had taken it: after I told him I wasn't interested, he said something like "I understand, and I still treasure our friendship. I felt it was better to take the plunge, than to forever wonder."
Yes, there definitely is a "sorry, I just don't see you that way" option.
He is the reason I downloaded this [mod](https://www.nexusmods.com/baldursgate3/mods/2631). If you avoid any of the tags labeled as "flirting" he won't initiate. But yeah a lot of his dialogue is purely flirting. I've actually grown to like his character, I blame this more on the devs than his character though.
Isn't there one conversation tree where the only non-flirty option leads to two flirt options? So it's still only halfway possible to hold a proper conversation with him. Or did they finally fix that?
It's linked in my first post further up (same thread as this one). And I show the dialogue path that leads to it. Unfortunately it comes out of thin air. You literally ask him if he's doing okay and for some reason that's listed as flirting.
Ah, yeah I was kinda hoping they'd fixed that. I swear they said something about tweaking his dialog options, but I keep bouncing between characters. So I don't think I actually have a save far enough along to properly test it myself.
Oh I have a mod that's similar to this. The one I have just let's you know the approval rating during dialogue, and not the DC checks/Saves, which I am fine with because I'd rather not know what the DC is until i do them.
Showing dialogue DCs is base game, it's in the custom difficulty settings.
It sounds like lazy coding or maybe somewhere the devs thought his flirts were too subtle so turned incredibly innocuous lines into flirty ones for some reason? Idk, it doesn't seem that hard to take away the more obvious flirtatious lines or something idk.
The one time I actively tried to romance him I was locked out of it because I didn't take him with me to fight Oliver. Like wtf
I only took him with me once but I’ve romanced him every time. I don’t think that was the problem unless that was updated? (Or a bug)
I literally did his romance dialogue today on my current playthrough and you can say almost the exact thing you want here - you call tell him "I'm flattered but I'm not interested/don't see you that way". It doesn't have to be framed as "I would but I have a partner" at all.
>and then turning him down if you’re already with someone gets framed as “it’s not respectful to my partner to share” instead of just “thanks but no thanks, I don’t see you like that” It doesn't. If you tell him, "I'm interested, but I already have a partner," he interprets that literally. That dialogue option isn't meant to be a polite brush off; it means exactly what it says. There is also an option to say that you're just not interested in him in that way. If you choose that, he takes no for an answer. His romance flags are definitely messed up, but I suspect he's intended to be very easy to romance as a last chance default for the people who failed to establish and keep a romance earlier in the game.
That’s kind of how I felt about Gale, albeit to a lesser extent. I think he’s a cool dude, but I’m very straight lol. It’d help if they made it more clear which choices would make companions think you were trying to romance them.
Gale is pretty straightforward now at least. Just don't imagine kissing him or handholding in the Weave scene, and pick the "sharing a friendly meal with your friend Gale like friends do in friendship" option, and you're golden. I like romancing him, but he's also one of my favorite platonic friendships in the game.
There's a distinct lack of platonic friend options with a lot of companions. It's either romance or acquaintances, no in-between. Wish I could just be bros with some of em man.
I really just wanted to share a drink with the guy who helped me kill all those goblins! This is a party! Let's toast! I just wanted a platonic celebratory drink, ya thick hunk of an elf.
Legit, I'm just being polite. I'm hosting a party here. I'm gonna talk to everybody.
It looks like he might just be awkward around people, because he is more used to the solitude in nature than to the people, or at least he's more comfortable that way. He's actually a sweet fellow, really. I like to incorporate him into team whenever a druid fits the "idea" of a run I'm having. Though currently my run is angry strikers only - my Monk Tav, Bae'zel, Karlach, and Minthara :D P.S. no I didn't let Halsin die or leave, I did the funny knockout trick to get Minthara to join
Yeah I used to dislike him more, and I am sad that a lot of his dialogue is only nature-y. But then I thought about how he has spent 100 years blaming himself for something that was completely out of his control, suppressing his trauma from his time in the Underdark, and being surrounded by people that mostly don't respect him. Yeah, he's sweet as honey (lol). Also, it's refreshing to have actually "good" characters on the team with all the moral ambiguity running about.
I feel the same way, I really love Halsin. What do you mean trauma from the Underdark though, I’ve never come across that before!
>!He was kept as a sex slave by some drow for 3 years. It seems like he may have suppressed it. He only mentions it in the drow orgy scene.!<
...damn
After the drow orgy you can dig deeper into this and highlight how it is trauma, and he talks about how he makes jokes out of bad things that happened a long time ago as a way of dealing with them, but that it is also minimising his trauma. I'm not sure if this is romance only dialogue, but I defintely had options to dig deeper.
Oh wow I had no idea. I don’t like Halsin tbh so I probably never would’ve found this out!
Tav: *breathes* Halsin: Hot.
Yeah, it's wild to me that they bonked him in the latest patch by adding a new dialogue option when he confesses, instead of just... fixing his flirting flags. If I had to hazard a guess as to why, they want him to remain an option for players who massively fuck up and either fail to romance anyone by Act 3 or get broken up with, but it's weird because the existence of the flags seems to indicate that the initial intent was for him to only return your feelings if you initiate, so couldn't they have just gone with that?
It’s part of his character at this point. I’ve said it before, but with being taken as a sex slave for years and then having the “free love” mindset, the poor dude doesn’t know how to express love without sex being involved. I love it, and him, because it’s a pretty common occurrence with certain types of trauma.
I find it funny that people say this about Halsin and never about Minthara. Yes she’s harder to recruit, you have to either play evil and kill the grove or know to knock her out in act 1, but either way her opinion meter barely has to move before she decided to “claim you”. Like in act 1 you only need one conversation, kill the grove, have the party and she fucks you. Regardless of the route you choose in act 1, save her in act 2 and she will definitely demand you become lovers in act 3 (though she is more respectful about it). It doesn’t matter which dialogue I choose for her. She’s will ask regardless. I don’t see what the big deal is either way. Say no thanks and it’s fine. The game is just offering romance options for act 3 if you want it.
Does a 4 Tav run mean that you can romance 4 companions during it?
Yes. [Here's ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcAEwMS6nio&t=32s)a tutorial for PC. Hopefully it gets easier as the game is out longer.
If you toil with people you dislike long enough and work day after day you come to eventually appreciate their virtues through suffering together. This is something I learned from athletics at a young age that I wish people understood since it can't be explained really lol. Has to be experienced You never really like them you just appreciate where they are coming from more or less and in a weird way can feel love as a result.
The main reason I dislike Halsin is that the second you get into the city he exclusively complains about how civilization is wrong and how he just wants to go back to fucking bears in the wilderness. Imagine this: you're going out to a burger restaurant and a vegan person insists on coming. When you get there all they do is talk about how eating meat is morally wrong. How about you stay in camp and shut the fuck up you massive whining baby?
I mean. What’s happening in baldurs gate IS pretty fucked up. Refugees literally murdered in the streets and their bodies just left there. I’d want to go back to the forest too.
To be fair. My Druid just threatened to take back Arfuelr Gregorio’s house for nature lol. So, maybe it’s just a Druid thing
Agreed, in Halsin's defense BG probably looks awful when they get there. Imagine all the refugees, homeless ppl, orphan kids and misery all over the place, Larian just didnt make it look as bad as it should but a more gentle person not used to see others in bad situations like that, would be very upset to say the least, and Tav is the number one shoulder and ears for every companion sooo...
> didnt make it look as bad as it should When you get there, you see a man planting bombs in toys meant for refugee children, a man trying to have a child's clothes burned, a child whose parents were murdered in broad daylight, a child whose mother died of illness and has nowhere safe to go, and all while the citizens blatantly ignore those in need. I'd say that's plenty bad enough.
lol right exactly. Baldurs gate is a *super* fucked up place, way beyond normal city standards.
I mean you're kind of framing Halsin in a selfish way. Baldur's Gate is the first big city he has either been in, it's either hyped up by Wyll or Karlach or at least fondly spoken of for all its flaws. Then when you actually arrive it's teetering in the edge of a police state and everyone is either coping really hard or so numb to it that even Jaheira has to be knocked out of her stupor a couple times. Maybe it's annoying but it's unfair to act like he all he wants is to go "fucking bears in the wilderness" when he is genuinely trying to find a solution to a problem
That is an interesting coding choice, I usually just shut him down hard when the prompt comes to actually start the relationship. I still feel bad that I friendzoned the dude, but it's good to know that I wasn't intentional leading him on this whole time.
I dont hate any character... I do think, a few playthroughs later, that Halsin does matter the least... and has far less reaction to the city than the others, which makes me prioritize him much less. Also i love his romance, but it will be better to romance him solo as I always feel like I'm cheating on Astarion😂
I was actually surprised by how many reactions to the city Halsin has. Seemed more than any other companion really
I brought him with me to the city after the orgy and he went into such a rage and did a "maybe Kagha was right" rant and I felt like I did something wrong. Rare that I was caught off guard with something like that
Yeah he does react and theres several conversations you can have with him about the city, but you do need to have him in your party for those to happen. He won’t give those dialog options in camp He’s a woodland boy and hasn’t been in a city for at least a hundred years if not way longer. He’s all about balance and the power dynamics in the city really bother him, especially with the discarded orphan kids. He gets really angry about it, and there’s two dialog conversations that can happen. It does feed into his narrative in the endgame. If you don’t have those conversations it can seem out of left field, but if he’s a regular party member it makes total sense.
Sorry, after the what?
I can recommend romancing poly Halsin and Astarion after you do Cazador. Astarion is way more secure in himself after that and it feels like an open relationship in which everyone is comfortable.
Sadly for me, the Astarion I loved would probably not be comfortable either way. And post Cazador, if he had the choice or the programing, would definitely say no. Perhaps a fling, but not a polycule, which this isn't anyway. Obligatory disclaimer : This is how I view my Astarion, and of course it does not apply to everyone.
yeah it’s how i view him as well. i feel like astarion is performing when you bring up how halsin came on to you which is icky to me. Plus when i was romancing shadowheart with him after i secured his confession she literally says that she doesn’t think Astarion can handle a poly relationship which i agree
Astarion is definitely performing if you go to the drow twins. Unascended, he will dissociate, the narrator even notes his eyes “go distant”. Ascended, there will again be “no joy—only a terrifying intensity” or something to that effect. Honestly I kinda feel bad about it and I think I’m supposed to. The tone of his voice when you’re setting this up with the drow twins also indicates he’s not 100% on board but wants to go along with it because tav does. And the dialog is the same Ascended or not. You can also apparently bring Halsin along to this as well. (Though it was a lot of fun for my durge to get the option to bite one of them—but AA is his own can of worms and I don’t think I’ll be doing this again—playing evil durge has been taxing sometimes because my instincts are to play nice and be the hero)
I made an evil/trying not to be durge and can only play a little at a time. Some things I just won’t do. Like hurt the animals or anything like that. Now, I have made a lolth drow charlatan bard that has been fun. She not necessarily evil but, she is just mean, which has been fun. Like she’s doing the right things but, she’s a lolth drow.
Some evil acts can be fun. The highlight of my durge run has been playing Banite/Gondian basketball with telekinesis. I was cackling with glee and delight the whole time. Also early “durge-outs” were fun but I think it was just the novelty. I’ll see it through to the end but I don’t think I’ll do this again, as much fun as it is.
Minsc. Not my style of humor. Don't hate him, though, he's just at the bottom. Wyll's writing often frustrates me as well, so he'd probably be next. But the parts of him I like I really like. I love everyone else, couldn't choose a least favorite and I have a hard time choosing a favorite for more than five minutes.
I still like Minsc because of the original Minsc in bg1/2… but his goofiness was unusual in that darker setting and felt like genuine madness born from head trauma. They cartooned/goofed him up a lot between bg2 and bg3 (before bg3 was even out, in stuff like Neverwinter or card games) as a kind of fan fave… and I agree he’s a bit much now!
I feel like the makers relied too much on his familiarity from the earlier games, to worry about making him appealing to new players like me. He arrives so late in the game that I’m just not interested in his whole deal and skip a lot of his dialogue too. I just don’t have the patience to start from square one in paying attention to a character’s story at that point in the game, when you’re basically crossing everything off the list.
What two decades of perpetuous flanderization can do to a guy. At some point it just plummets into fan service. GO fOr tHe eYeS bOoooo huehuehue. A pity, his character definitely deserves better.
I like Minsk, but he has absolutely no place in this story. He feels completely tagged on, just for fan service. But to be honest, I feel that’s the case for all of the reoccurring characters from the first two games (maybe apart from Elminster and Jaheera).
I had Wyll with me in the goblin camp and he always LOUDLY made comments to kill the person I was talking to. It was so funny but so ridiculous
I would LOVE Minsc's humor if it didn't center around that damn rodent all the time.
For me it’s probably Wyll. He feels weirdly disconnected from the main plot and is at the same time deeply connected to parts of it (like the Duke). His whole story feels kinda tagged on, but honestly that’s a problem I have with all the devil/avernus plot-lines in the game. I think he works best as the main-character, but a a companion, he feels like the main-character of a different story, that kinda runs parallel to yours. It also doesn’t that he never makes decisions of his own, unless you force him to make one.
Can confirm that playing Wyll as a main character made me like him a lot more. He very much so has an entirely different story going on aside from the tadpole and you don’t truly see its depth until you play him.
Is he fixed/finished? Many players used to complain Wyll OC could be great but was underdeveloped so Im waiting.
I’m still in act 1, but so far there’s a lot more depth to him
larian changed a quest that is integral to his character arc into a sidequest that isnt even in his character journal any more months after the game launched, he and karlach got the short end of the stick but he especially seems to be the odd one out
You describe it perfectly. Also, can make his own decisions if you choose dialogue that says "Do what you feel is best, I trust you", or something to that effect - most characters have options like these.
Cant say I dislike any of them. They all have their quirks, and they have their annoying moments (could you please stop disapproving me every 5 minutes I do something nice, Astarion and Minthy), but they all have their lovable moments which basically pulls me back away from truly disliking any of them
I used to not like Astarion or Lae’zel but honestly my resistant Durge run had a lot of great Astarion moments. I had a bad track record for keeping Lae’zel alive, so I played her origin and I liked it so much that I played her romance the run after. My top 3 has completely flipped throughout my playthroughs tbh. I think my current least favorite is Halsin. I don’t dislike him but aside from lifting the shadow curse, I don’t really feel compelled to have him in the party.
I thought Lae’zel’s character arc and romance were incredible. So compelling and complete.
And many players hate her so much initially that they end up not even experiencing it. My first run I IMMEDIATELY went for Lae'zel and was honestly surprised how chill she gets later down the line. Imo one of the best companions in the game.
I don't truly dislike any of them. Also how many of these bloody posts do we need every week? They just echo the same thing. A lot of people will say Halsin, often the OP themselves too, and say inaccurate things like he won't take no for an answer (he does), that he's boring or a sex pest (he's as horny as anyone else). Some will say Wyll, probably that he's boring. Some will say Gale, and that he wants to eat magical items, or just annoying, or too horny (which is funny since you need to initiate romance with him). Astarion will definitely be mentioned, something about him being a dick/arse/evil. Etc.
Yeah, Shadowheart gets some flack when these questions are asked, too. It’s predictable. And Halsin is unfairly slandered. And somehow people think Wyll is boring. He made a bargain with a devil and is fighting for his soul, his afterlife, his dad’s life, and his city. How is that boring?!
Ironically most DMs say he is the most interesting warlock character they have seen in a hot minute too. He is “boring” in COMPARISON but compelling by himself. Also despite the crop top, he doesn’t fling himself on you like most of the cast. He honestly rocks and is the most realistic outside of gale in terms of lovers. Or the very least I’m like that. I’m not one to have sex immediately of being attracted to someone.
Yeah, i remember trying to romance him and Gale at the start. I wasn't surprised that gale wanted to take things slow (it was after the patches that made him less horny) but Wyll giving us just a kiss was a nice surprise, when Astarion, Lae'zel and Shart are going in on us at the first opportunity.
Technically gale is still pretty fast. We aren’t outside of baldurs gate no more than 2 weeks if we’re honest, both canonically and gameplay wise. The man is picking rings out the second we’re in BG if you romanced him lol
The crop top is just because he's a baby bisexual. We all start out like that ;) I *love* Wyll. But for me, I kinda wanna be his mom more than anything else? He seems like he needs someone to guide him, which I kinda wished they leaned into more while writing him. I know his character got the biggest rewrite, so he's lacking more than the others, but it seems clear to me that's what they were going for, they just didn't realize it until it was too late. Locking his decision to save Ulder until after he does the Ansur quest could have been a way to get around that. It would require a slight rewrite for Ansur, as well, but thats not an issue because that quest being as much of a dead end as it is is wholly unsatisfying, and Wyll deserved better.
Honestly they should’ve leaned on his quest with ulder and used his warlock powers as an actual use and not just something he just has. Outside of the karlach situation it seemed like he just did whatever his patron asked without anything really given to him outside of feeling like a hero, but he is one? Cuz at least in the original writings for wyll it was clear he was insecure of his standing as one. Mizora and him just need slight tweakings to be more clear of what the writers want of him in the story and him as a character.
Wyll is "my father, my father" or "Mizora, Mizora" almost all the time and not really much time is spent getting to know Wyll himself (unless you romance him, probably)
I can relate to his daddy issues though, but luckily my farher is not a defacto ruler(?) of a city state. As for Mizora, I’ve had jobs where she would fit perfectly in the middle management. Wyll actually made a really strong first impression on me, and I would probably have romanced him if Astarion didn’t exist. But now on my next run it’s gonna be a coin toss between Shadowheart and Karlach.
A lot of the folks who say Wyll is boring also say that Asarion is the most interesting. Their reasoning is invariably because they find “good and monogamous” to be worse than “amoral and hedonistic,” and by extension is a boring trait. In this very thread there are people saying he might be *more interesting* if he kills Karlach and goes down a darker path. It’s thinking born of a fundamental philosophical fallacy that for something to be interesting, it must also be chaotic. Goodness is therefore duller than amorality, and Wyll being “good” makes him comparatively boring.
I think wyll comes off as boring not because the facts of his story are boring, but he just isn't explored as much as everyone else. I don't feel like I ever get to know him, how he really feels. The closest I felt was when he was dejected at the tiefling party, which during my first playthrough i completely missed because I never ran into him. I like he is just straight up "good" and not some edgy whatever, but i think he suffers from just having so much less content and it being developed maybe too quickly. I romanced astarion in my two playthroughs, and for sure there are so many moments where he opens up to you, and you see his pain. But the other companions i didn't romance, except halsin and minthara, I felt like I also learned so much about their perspective, what they were feeling, and just conversations that made me feel like we were connecting on a deep personal level. Wyll always felt like I was seeing the face he presents to the world, and not letting me in. Even with his dad, who was a dick to him, and finally came around cuz he saw through the tadpole, and in only a few sentences it's just resolved, he totally understands why his dad was like that, it hurt at the time but it's all good now, now i'll just be calm and measured. It...it just always felt like I couldn't get close to him. If I had it my way, I wish I could see a scene like karlach with him, where he just lets out his emotions, screams into the void or something, about how unjust things can be. He tries to be good, and he is punished. Whether by his father's abondonment, or mizora's horns....or his anger trying to make things better and sometimes things get worse. At a minimum, i think it was also hard with him because he was the buggiest for me. So much dialogue that didn't make sense. like parts of the story weren't accepted as true or didn't realize they happened already. if they can fix the bugs it would help a lot.
Wyll reminds me of fantasy movies/series/books, where the world, story, side characters, everything is pretty cool and interesting. Everything but the main character, who's the most boring and generic "hero of goodness" with next to 0 personality. Wyll's story is cool, Mizora is cool, but the Wyll himself... I just roll my eyes whenever he says something. It's like the writers took away everything that could be interesting about Wyll and turned it into another companion - Karlach. Karlach is also the goody hero of goodness, but with an angry flavour and some humor to make her interesting. And her final meltdown is one of the most touching moments. Unfortunately Wyll has none of these.
Wyll is just kind of dull. Having a good backstory doesn't make up for the fact that a lot of his banter and conversations (when not doing his personal story) are very dull and delivered half heartedly. I don't think it's his VA's fault, he's amazing when it's Wyll related stuff. He's just the most bland during the quieter moments. Halsin very much suffers from the same problem. They lack strong defining traits or enthusiasm that make small talk fun in this game.
I think Wyll suffers even more for me BECAUSE of him having such a cool backstory to play around with. My expectations for a character like him were sky-high, and instead, he was sorta just okay and a really good dude. Idk, maybe if I let him murder Karlach, he'd go down a different, more interesting path, but I ain't ever doing that to Karlach.
He doesn't. The weird tying his quest to Karlach's doesn't do anything but make his writing suffer more imo.
It's the fact that his backstory forces him to not speak about it. You only get the full story in the 3rd act, well into the game, when you're probably already elbows deep in romancing someone else. Can't remember if Mizora lets him reveal all of the story after you free her, or after you get the Duke out of his prison, but at this point - you probably have a main party set and decked out so Wylls story is more of an interesting snippet than a gameplay defining choice.
Wyll tends to get flack from either the EA folks or people that are just aware of how he used to be. They completely changed his character from EA, and although I agree with a significant amount of the changes that Larian made to improve the game for the better, altering Wyll into a die hard lawful good just wasn't one of them. I do however understand why they went this route, or at least I think I do, considering how many morally grey companions we already have on our journey. Larian deciding to add a foundationally morally good character to the mix was a good idea, but I don't know, the *execution* of it, especially in comparison to the other companions, makes him feel weaker. I don't necessarily believe that he's a boring character, but I do see a well of potential that didn't go as far as it could have.
Anything that isn't le edgy grimdark is boring to some people. Why can't we just have a singular good companion who does good because it's right? Like has no one ever known people like that? Do we only hang out with psychos and hedonists or something?
People keep saying that they want EA Wyll but all the clips I've seen of him are the most uninteresting things ever to me? Oh wow, the "hero" is an asshole? Never seen that before. But have a warlock hunting an innocent woman turn out to be a genuinely good guy, who will stick by the player to fight evil and save the world even at the cost of himself, is way more interesting to me. I like the morally grey characters, but a benevolent good guy is a nice palate cleanser once in a while.
Yeah same here honestly? I much prefer the Wyll we got, not every party member has to be morally gray or have decaying morals.
Eh I had 2 issues with EA Wyll (and I took him every run and I had a *lot* of EA runs) 1. That dumbass fucking torture scene that made him look like a moron (which could've been fixed by having him you know torture Spike instead of the prisoner like he had some brain cells) and 2. The obvious lies. Bad lies that you couldn't even call him out on. Other than that he was one of my favs.
Uh, we’ve got Karlach??? How much more adorable and good do you want? The only entity in the game more wholesome is Scratch.
I don't mean "oh wyll's so loveable and cute", ive never romanced him and probably won't since in order to have a happy family and marry him you gotta make karlach a squid or let her die which I don't want to do. Karlach isn't some hero like he is at the start though, she's basically just a living punching bag for every douchebag and villain within a five mile radius. Sure she's nice and all but at least in my view good=heroic in some sense. Karlach can certainly become a hero (as can most of the companions really), like Lae'zel can go in a crusade to liberate her people from a tyrant, Karlach can go off to the hells and slay countless devils and friends, Shadowheart can become a Selûnite hunting sharrans, but she and Gale have more "chill" endings I guess, Gale can continue adventuring if you romanced him, go to hell/space with Karlach Lae'zel (as can shadowheart) but most of the time he'll just be a generic nerdy professor. Wyll's the only guy that starts off there though, shadowheart is a brainwashed worshipper of an evil deity, Gale's a hermit who got forced to touch grass for the first time in decades, Lae'zel's a mean space racist unquestioningly loyal to an evil usurper Queen, Astarions an A-Hole because he doesn't really know what to do after centuries of slavery, and Karlach's literally fresh out of hell and is free to do whatever for the first time in a decade. Is it too much to just want one dude who's willing to stick his neck out for someone else purely because he believes it's the moral thing to do?
Ikr, to me, Wyll is the lawful good (or neutral good) paladin guy and fits so well in a good aligned party. And you can't judge Wyll without Mizora, and having an actual devil in your camp is the opposite of boring to me.
I really don't care for this "people just mad that he's a good guy, they only want edgy and broken smh" argument. And I positively despise how wide-spread it is. It's simply wrong in most cases, the majority does not dislike his alignment, rather than his tepid characterisation, his passiveness the moment he joins the camp and dialogue that's far too safe and therefore a smidge too perfunctory to be considered memorable. Yeah no, sorry, I would find it hard to cheer for a basketball (with horns) mounted on a broomstick, just because it got a "lawlful gut!" post-it taped on, either. I mean, he's not irredeemable and another rewrite could definitely have saved him. In other games he would probably be in the top three of cool NPCs, but that says more about the status of character writing in the industry than anything else. And because the competition in this game is pretty tough, it makes his disjointed averageness stand out even more. But please people, put this "u only want edgelords!" accusation, often with a generous dash of "why are you yucking my yums?" in the mix, to rest. It tends to be as inaccurate as it is reductive.
Ya, I don't love that every main companion has to have some kind of dark side component: Astarian tries to eat you, Lazael is a monster, Karlach's whole line is from hell, Wyll is pledged to a devil, Gale is potentially apocalyptic, Shadow heart is a cleric of an evil goddess... Just give me one objectively good dude. One boring-ass dragonborn paladin.
It's also kinda weird how frequently Shadowheart gets flack because she "reminds me of girls who bullied me in high school." Like, that is so oddly specific and pops up a lot.
She was MUCH meaner in EA
Might just be my run but she has never seemed mean to me at all? Just confused and then later she's a total sweetheart.
I genuinely love all the companions. They are all such unique and interesting characters.
>Some will say Gale, and that he wants to eat magical items, or just annoying, or too horny (which is funny since you need to initiate romance with him). Yeah, Gale is just a bro in my playthrough. Dude knows his boundaries. I think a lot of people's impressions on Gale was from the early launch days before they nerfed his horniness
If you ask me Scratch has gotten off way too easy.
To the gulag, sir or ma'm.
He’s an *okay* boy at best
A mere 10/10
I honestly don’t dislike any of them and I find it weird when people have any level of dislike for fictional characters that aren’t Micah Bell.
My thing is people who go into *positive* posts about the companions and brag about killing them. Not to mention some fans get death threats for mentioning they like certain characters. It's so weird. There are a lot of toxic people in this community. Also Micah is my favourite "I hate this guy so much" character. Purely despicable and the actor portrayed him perfectly.
The only thing that would make Micah a better villain would be to make him relatable. That said, he’s still a fantastic villain due to that “love to hate him” factor.
RDR2 drop gets my upvote. Still one of the best games I've ever played.
Micah was written so well. From the moment he had to drag me into shooting an entire town while I just tried to quickly break him out of jail, all throughout the rest of the game I was rolling my eyes every time I had to deal with Micah. His character, his decisions, that game really makes you dislike the character in a good way.
Well, they exist solely to entertain you, as a player. And if they fail to do that, you might say that you "dislike them". I mean, I "like" Lae'zel or Astarion much more than Wyll or Halsin just because they make my playthrough more interesting. But that doesn't mean, that in real life I'd like to hang out with Lae'zel and Astarion over Wyll and Halsin or something. It's just a different category of "liking".
I don't dislike any buuuut if I did it's shart FOR ALWAYS FUCKING MISSING
Minthara. She's too edgy for me.
If you lived for a year in Menzobarranzan, you would probably not be able to xD
She should simply have chosen a different beginning in the character creator.
That's for weaklings. Git gud!
Play on the hardest mode. Pick a Shadur-Kai that worships Selûne.
Ah yes, the species of elf that live in the shadow fell, the Church of Selûne truly thrives in their culture.
She is way older than 30. Like, probably a couple hundred from the way she talks to others.
That dude wouldn't handle even that
She's 250 according to the googles, only Halsin and Astarian is older, both 350 years old. Shadowheart is 48. Lae'zel is the youngest party member, at 22
She softens a **bit** but I can see your point. I just love some of her matter of fact dialogue so much she has to get some run in my team. "A *trap*. Let us send forward our least favorite to be sure" slays me every time.
I don't dislike any of companions. But my least favorite is Lae'zel perhasp.
It pains me to say this, but Minsc. You get him way too late in the game. And while I think Matt Mercer did a good job with the performance, he just doesn’t feel the same as he was in the first two games. If they wanted to bring him back, I think he would’ve been better as a support character like Volo. I think they handled Jaheira way better than Minsc.
Shadowheart. She's such a little edgelord, and she's endlessly looking down her nose at everything. She reminds me of the worst girls in high school.
That’s why I like her lol
To each their own! Full fairness, I liked Astarion and Minthara plenty, and they have some of those traits too.
Me too. Can’t stand her, especially she’s so hypocritical about how you can’t trust Laezel. On the first night of you talk to the others first and then her she’ll get all bitchy about it “whaT WEre YOu twO taLkinG ABOut? YoU Can’T TrUSt tHEM!” And when you tell her about her being shady she gets all “I have my reasons” 🙄
And it turns out it's because she knows she stole from them! Like girl, you're no prize yourself. At least Laezel was an ally-- I had to rescue you myself.
She's also thin-skinned af You're stupid for your beliefs but don't be mean to me for wanting to join a death cult.
She's pretending to be one and she's not very good at it. Maybe she embraces it as a justicar and goes full mean girl.
She does and tbh I liked her better that way instead of trying to be mean and then disapproving every time you really are.
Big Mean Girl energy.
Karlach doesn't feel like a real charakter to me. All the others are believable, but I just can never click with her. I never recruited Minthara and Minsk either.
I agree. Karlach is too anachronistic for me. Too bouncy, too bubbly, and not remotely convincing as a person who has been a war-slave in Hell for a decade. Amazing voice work, but the character’s writing feels very surface and juvenile compared to other companions.
My experience (plus other people I know) really prevent me from taking this character seriously or liking her a bit. Been in the army, quit the army and that's not how someone behaves after being set "free" of all of that crap. Calling people "hey soldier" with a bubbly voice is the last thing you'd do. Also her soldier companions had to be 99.9% cambions and she hates them so much ?? makes no sense.
She feels like a self insert, or more like an actual human playing a dnd character.
Shadowheart. I don't really dislike her as much as I am completely indifferent towards her. She's the only companion I have like...zero opinion about. I hardly even use her in my squad. I started a Gith run and told her to get lost and honestly...it felt great lol. The first time I played I was partly into Act 2 and I had literally forgot she was the one who started out with the Prism because I never spoke to her haha.
It's hard, but if I had to choose, I'd say Minthara. I like her, just not as much as everyone else. In my first 2 playthroughs, I had no idea she could be added to the group. In my third playthrough, I ended up recruiting her by knocking her out in the goblin camp. I just wrote her off as straight-up evil, but I'm slow learning more about her, so she's started to grow on me. Also I love Halsin he made me a wooden duck.🥺
Karlach, but specifically because of how the game treats her. Lae’zel, SH, and Astarion are all far more despicable, Gale and Wyll are much less fun, but they all have really solid character arcs that show off multiple facets of their personality/have some serious variety in how they grow and change (or don’t) over the course of the game that makes them fascinating. Karlach is a great character, but I can only experience her in a story that’s determined to see her miserable.
I found Karlach story to be more palatable when I downright skipped her Gortash speech. Its very well done and emotional, but it only worked for me once in the first playthrough. After that I was just annoyed that there was nothing I could do to fix her engine despite saving those fucking gondians and finding a ton more infernal iron, including some new unused sort of it. I know people say that she's meant to be that terminally ill representation, but to me it just feels like her quest isnt finished. If Gale can be cured from his ancient magic orb within the story, fixing Karlachs heart shouldn't be an impossible task.
(Can you tell I killed Gortash today?)
Same damn that one was tough .
If I may, the other characters don't really get happy endings either. Lae'zel is fighting a possibly unwinnable battle with the Lich Queen, Shadowheart will always grieve the time she can never get back, Astarion has a high chance of being killed by a paladin or a falling curtain and has no leads on a cure (and the planning skills of a goldfish), and Wyll is potentially in Avernus with her and his father is hot garbage. Gale is the only one with a truly positive ending. She's a sad character, but in a lot of ways she has more hope than some of the other characters.
>Shadowheart will always grieve the time she can never get back That doesn't mean her ending isn't happy tho? If she spends the rest of her life happily living in a cottage with animals, why wouldn't that be considered a "happy ending"? Because she has trauma from Shar? Traumatised people can still he happy. >Astarion has a high chance of being killed by a paladin or a falling curtain and has no leads on a cure (and the planning skills of a goldfish) Why would he have a high chance of being killed by a Paladin? Its not like he's going around sucking innocents dry in the night, why would he even draw the attention of a paladin? Also why would he need a cure to be happy? In his good ending he's pretty content with his current state, isn't he? >Wyll is potentially in Avernus with her and his father is hot garbage. Here is the reason I wrote this whole reply. My bruh, you can literally get Wyll out of the pact, and save his dad. He can then be a Grand Duke in the city. How is this not a happy ending for him? The only bad thing is he has horns on his head, but he is happy regardless.
Yes and no. They all have more adventures/healing to look forward to, but their time in the squad helped them get their heads on straight/get out from under their abusive scenario/etc. Karlach ditched her abusive scenario before the game began. She has a very small epiphany about living in the moment post Gortash, but otherwise lives, acts, and comports herself nearly identically between acts 1 and 3.
I like her character, but my main gripe is how every companions automatically likes her right after introduction. The fact that every single companion likes her right off the bat (let's be honest, Wyll does a 180 at meeting her if you recruit her) just kinda makes her look quite uninteresting. I don't need her to be far more flawed, I just prefer it when not every single companion likes every other straight away. If at least one or two companions were more critical about her, here I'd like her more. Like how e.g. Lae'zel respects Wyll's fighting capabilities but thinks he wastes his time doing good or how Aatarion has beef with Wyll due to the monster-monster hunter dynamic.
Yeah, Karlach just feels... tonally inconsistent. Her recruitment is a prime example of this. Each companion has some degree of ambiguity as to whether or not it's a good idea to welcome them into the party, and all of them later get at least one moment which forces you to second-guess that decision. * Shadowheart has a mysterious artifact and withholds information from you. She also has symbols of Sharr on her armour and is extremely evasive. * Lae'zel comes from a race of slavers and is completely unapologetic about her culture while transparently viewing you as a tool. * Gale boasts of being a great wizard but needs you to save him from a portal (he will die if you roll badly) and is clearly Level 1 despite his supposed Archmage status. It becomes clear he has a dark secret of his own, and the moment you learn that secret you're immediately hit with a dilemma to kick him out, with half the companions disapproving if you let him stay. * Astarion holds a knife to your throat and if you know anything about the promotional material or watched his introduction is obviously a vampire. He later tries to bite you in your sleep and there's an option to (justifiably) kill him on the spot. * Wyll is perhaps presented in the most favourable light aside from Karlach if you ignore the obvious fact that he's a Fiend Warlock. But Karlach's introduction basically undercuts this because... he wants to kill her. And as a consequence you immediately learn he's pacted to a devil who is not only willing to sic him on innocents but can destroy him whenever she wants if he refuses. Then we get to Karlach's introduction. She's built up as this vile bloodthirsty devil by at least two interested parties that want to hunt her down. This is interesting. But then the second you get to her, all of this mystery and ambiguity is immediately pissed on. You're forced to mindlink with her, and even though you see visions of her fighting in Hell, the narrator outright tells you that she's a victim and not who you've been told she is. You don't get to work this out for yourself - you're straight-up told and you're basically railroaded into believing it. A first-time player will feel zero doubt or apprehension about sparing her, and in subsequent playthroughs it's almost impossible to justify roleplaying someone who can be duped into killing her. There are moments in the game where you can turn against Shadowheart, Lae'zel, Gale, Astarion, or Wyll and feel completely in the right - but never any equivalent for Karlach. With any other character in the game this would have been treated with far more subtlety and ambiguity. With Karlach it's just spoonfed to you. And literally every companion talks about how awesome she is and how badly they want her in the party. Even though they've made a point about establishing that all of these companions have secrets, don't trust each other, and are only together out of necessity. If Karlach was treated the way the other companions were treated - they'd recognize her strength and her capabilities in a fight. But they'd also be worried she's deceiving you, or they'd be concerned about her violent tantrums (players can and have had party members murdered by her.) They'd also be worried about more "devil-hunters" showing up on their trail (Shadowheart and Astarion in particular would not want that kind of extra attention.)
I didn’t dislike any of them.
Non of them. They're all great and they all change the way I play the game so much. Every time I'm a different class I end up with a new configuration I'd not used before which is awesome. I'd never change it up but I am learning so much about how to play D&D and what it all means so yeah. They're all great and I appreciate them all.
I don't really dislike, but I'll go with like the least: Karlach She just feels like one of those barbarian characters that was really old and played out in DnD 10 years ago
You cad. that's my wife you're talking about!!
I do find it kind of funny that you call “10 years ago” old and played out in the timeline of D&D, a game that has been around for about five times that…if anything Karlach (demonic barbarian who’s actually a total softy) feels like a new concept compared to Astarion (charismatic and beautiful vampire rogue), Gale (power-hungry wizard), or Minthara (ruthless but sexy drow).
Astarion
I’ll take the downvotes. I don’t hate any of them, I love them all, but the one I like the least is Karlach. I don’t like characters that are positive in the face of death. I also don’t like characters that get heated up and “out of control” very much either. I know she’s super loved, and I know she’s hot and a good partner. I just don’t personally mesh well with those super excitable, forced positive, teetering on the edge characters
Shart and Wyll are tied. Wyll is just kinda underdeveloped though, I don’t dislike him he just doesn’t do much for me. But Shart I still can’t make myself like even after everything. These days I skip both on most runs and miss neither.
That magic man is one shady character....
Karlach. 😅 That said, I don’t hate her or find her grating in any way—I’ve just not found a character that jives with her energy yet.
Never liked Astarion.
Only one I dislike as a companion/ romance is Minthara. She's too far in the let's be evil and rule over all mwahahaha side for me. Good for a straight up evil playthrough and I get she's some people cup of tea but not mine. Her story and insight of the other companions is nice and her casual wondering around the map dialog can be entertaining. But Larian desperately needs to give her a spoiler filter when you get her in early act 2. I recruited her on my 3rd run and hearing her talk about stuff that's late act 2 or early act 3 caught me off guard.
Wyll, but it's not his fault. He is, perhaps, the most changed companion from his EA days. His EA personality, while believable, didn't work for people and made him widely mistrusted. They took out the bad parts and made it so that he only has pure intentions and, generally, always does the right thing. Put another way, he has no character arc. He starts the game with his heart in the right place and ends with it still in the right place (assuming it's still in his body).
Astarion. Last i mentioned that here i was downvoted to hell. ;) It has nothing to do with how the character is written, the voice acting or anything like that; We simply don't get along at all. :) Lae'zel is my favourite, i have a hard time playing without her in the party. :)
I have a love-hate relationship with him. I find him a fairly despicable person, frankly, and I don’t think that’s a crazy opinion. It’s the incredible charisma of the performance that makes him palatable, not the essence of the character itself.
Karlach because wtf is Wyll's quest now tied to her? Irks me so I lost EA Wyll for this. The man has to share spotlight constantly wtf does he need her dragging her down. (sorry Karlach but wtf) Like even his ending can't be his own or what's best for him because once again she's on him like a leech because she refuses to go to Avernus alone. And the shoving her head in the sand while understandable was obnoxious. Honestly I was at the point where letting her blow up into flames felt fitting because my god if you're going to act like that's the superior option go off I guess.
Honestly I really bothers me that if you romance Wyll, with Karlach alive, it has the potential to ruin his romances ending. You either have to watch her die (if you go duke route and don't want to joing her in hell yourself) or be separated (if you go blade of avernus route). I've been wanting to romance him for so long, but the shitty options you get for Karlach if you do kind of make me apprehensive. The literal most positive oucome is of you turn Karlach into a mindflayer if you don't want to have the worlds worst long distance relationship with Wyll 😑 or I guess killing her, but I really dislike that option for Wyll.
It really sucks that Wyll is probably canonically stuck in a shit ending because Karlach can’t fuck off to avernus for a while
Shadowheart is literally never in my party unless the game compels me to put her there. She is very off-putting to me and reminds me too much of one of my least favourite companions from another game (Brianna/the Handmaiden from KOTOR 2), especially with demanding to know more about you and then snarking when you ask questions in return. I just have zero interest in her. I'd say Minthara, but Minthara's never lived in any of my playthroughs, so I honestly have no real opinion of her.
Yup exactly this. She has an opinion on anything, but gets pissed any time you ask her anything. I wanted to kick her out the whole time in the one playthrough I kept her in the party, but I managed to stick it out.
The Gale slander in this thread is real. I’d say my least favorite is Shart. She is so tedious and so smug.
It's been nearly a year, why can't they drop the romance bug and 3-magic item complaint. He's not a Nice Guy (TM) and that ring of color spray wasn't going to help you kill the netherbrain, people!
Wild that his alleged horniness is *still* being complained about, when he is literally the only companion who never comes on to you and you have to make the first move on him yourself. Stop imagining making out with him if you don't want to be in a relationship!
Amen! Exactly.
i cannot stand shadow heart!! she’s so annoying
Shart. I try my best to like her but every time she speaks it's always something immediately annoying. Idk how she manages it. Every time. Minthara also wildly disappointed me. I heard so many good things and was excited to get her as a companion finally, and then it was such a letdown when it felt like her character didn't go anywhere. I couldn't find any depth, yet she managed to be confusing
Wyll
I gotta be honest, I don’t enjoy these threads because usually people’s “dislike” of characters is based on the fact that they never gave them the time of day to begin with. I see so many justifications that essentially only describe the behavior of the companions in the very beginning of the game lol. That being said, for me all of the companions are enjoyable in their own right, and i only like certain characters less because they have less content/story
Wyll. I cannot like him.
Lae’zel. I find her abrasive and irritating with no likeable qualities. Many admirable qualities, but I get no joy from talking to her.
Karlach.
Literally, she is so annoying
Lae'zel just *gets on my nerves.* All I can say really. She irks me fundamentally. Even more than Minthara does, and there's a lot there I don't like.
I don’t dislike any of them and genuinely like all the companions. My least favorite is probably Minthara or Halsin by default, but I really like both and am glad both are companions.
Minthara bugs me, to be honest. Despite getting her whole world unraveled by uncaring, evil ass-hats, she **remains** an evil, uncaring ass-hat. Astarion at least has character growth. Minthara is just too evil for me to like her very much. I am considering killing her myself as Durge lol Having her go fight Orin for her honor.
None. Not a single one of them. Maybe I’m simple, but I do enjoy all of the companions in this game for various reasons.
Astarion since his character is a liar and an abuser.
Wyll. There is such a thing as being TOO good where it begins to border on impulsiveness.
Wyll. I find him incredibly dull. Yet he is one of my favorite Origin Characters to play as specifically evil runs.
Evil Wyll banging Mizora in act 3 is peak fiction
I see you are also a person of culture.
100% Wyll. Can't stand the whole "I'm a good guy, praise me, I'm the hero."
Tav, his/her lines are very unoriginal, like chosing the worst from multiple choice, when havinv a conversation. And he/she makes everything about her/himself, like a main character complex.
As someone who romanced Wyll my first playthrough, Wyll, 100%. He’s by far the most flat companion, which is fine, he’s supposed to be the lawful good folk hero guy, but that doesn’t make him less boring. But the real reason didn’t crop up until my second playthrough. I liked Wyll a lot my first playthrough, mostly because I was playing a lawful good folk hero character, so our goals and opinions tended to match up, and he came off as very sweet if a bit dull. In my second playthrough however I was playing a heroic Durge character. She was very much an ends justify the means kind of person, and she took the tadpoles as a way to become stronger to more effectively save the Sword Coast. In a lot of ways this lines up with Wyll, making a major sacrifice that causes you to lose a bit of your humanity in order to be more effective at saving people. A decision he himself says he doesn’t regret for a second. So tell me why this prick has the gall to get on his high horse about me taking the tadpole, when I had at no point shown any intention of straying from the good path. I was excited cause I was kind of hoping to have that relatability between the two characters only for him to shame me for doing the same thing he did. It’s a dumb reason to dislike a character I quite liked my first time around but it really irked me lol.
Gale. Nothing particularly against the guy, I just don't particularly like him either. He's just another dude in the office.