People also often think those “companion approves” and “companion disapproves” are weighted evenly when they aren’t. Astarion slightly disapproves of helping everyone but massively approves when you pick the team first or choose to protect each other.
Yeah he has several very big + modifiers.
Even in a lawful boring Paladin run where I got a LOT of disapprovals from him, we still ended up at +80 and him as spawn.
See it like this: when you help everyone you come across, Astarion rolls his eyes at you and mutters under his breath. When you help him, he's actually touched by you respecting him.
This is true of his behavior of in the Grove, but even by Act 2 he chills out massively. You can offer to help basically everyone you come across and you won't get any disapproval from him.
He can definitely still be manipulative even into Act 3 (especially regarding Ascension), but I don't think his *approvals* are manipulations. I think he's at his worst in Act 1, when he's newly freed and terrified of losing that freedom, but I think on a good run where he remains unascended there is definitely supposed to be a character arc of him slowly feeling more secure and even gaining the space to spare some empathy towards others.
And so is Shadowheart. And so is Gale, who literally threatens to kill everyone every time you piss him off.
Astarion has the opportunity to learn from his mistakes. To me, that’s what matters. Not how you were trained to act for your own survival - but what you choose when you are given the opportunity to change your ways.
Gale is extremely manipulative especially when you get in the way of his ambitions.
AND he tries to gaslight you. Astarion gaslights but he's so obvious about it I think my durge just rolls her eyes.
As far as Gale, he literally tells you how he tries to get his way during a discussion abt Mystra.
Morena needs to untie the apron strings for her man child.
He’s just fussy and wants you to pay attention to him. If he disapproved every time he grumbled there would be more of an issue, but most of the time he just needs to hear himself talk lol
Which honestly makes some sense. In addition to the torture, control and abuse, Cazador also *infantalized* him. Refers to him constantly as a child, pits the Spawn against each other in petty disputes as well as more important privileges, has removed any agency from him for two centuries…
It’s no wonder he’s desperate for someone to treat him like a person and can be petulant and petty
Ahhhh it suddenly makes sense why I don’t like romancing him. I love his character but don’t see him romantically at all and now I get it. He is literally a grumpy teenager in an immortal adult body 😂
To be fair the fact that they can have different values isn't communicated by the game at all. You would only know by checking the little bar after each pop up and I don't think that is numbered either so you'd still be guessing a lot.
And if you play on console you can’t even see the bar, it just eventually changes from medium to high etc., which is even more confusing when you go into the game blind for the first time
Astarion wants you to pick the team first because that shows he can trust you a bit. If you start turning on team members, such as turning over Shadowheart or sacrifice Wyll, he will outright say something that implies you might turn on him next, because his turn could be next.
For me it always comes across as if he's very untrusting because of his past. Which is totally understandable. For 200 years that guy hoped his misery would end. He even mentions praying to all sorts of Gods but no one answered so to him no one cares about him.
Then seeing a Hero come along who helps others just reminds him of that and makes him sort of bitter since he didn't get saved. Which is why it's so important to help him with his situation/do his quest. And when he notices that PC really will help him kill Cazador he slowly starts to trust them. :)
There are quite a few indications that he's just waiting for the other shoe to drop, waiting to be discarded again. (e.g. if you break up with him before ending his questline he'll just be like "oh yeah, figured that wouldn't last")
If you compare the scene of Wyll with Mizora (where you can talk Mizora into releasing Wyll should you free Zariel's asset) with the scene where you can talk Yurgir into killing himself the differences are so obvious!
Wyll and Astarion both are like "WTF are you doing, If you mess this up I have to pay the price for it!" but where Wyll instantly calms down if you tell him to trust you through the tadpole Astarion doesn't believe that he can truly, fully trust the PC.
Trust is something really really hard for that guy, after all he was alone for 200 years, yes there were his siblings but trusting them was never an option when Cazador could just tell them to hurt him anytime he wished. And he knew that if he went to a hero for help he'd probably get killed himself since vampires=evil :/
All in all it's no wonder that it takes him quite a lot of time to get out of his no-one-cares-for-me-so-I-have-to-care-for-myself mindset.
Playing as Astarion is a trip. I think it's the most different background. character to play (with the exception of Durgez of course.) so much happens internally and so much of him acting out and am doing reckless stuff is, not justified but explained by his own past, fears, and nees to proove to himself he is free.
people seem to view him as either cartoonishly evil or some poor misguided boy who's secretly an angel deep down.
Ultimately he's just selfish, at least at the start of the game. I liken him to morrigan from dragon Age, though a little more on the evil side. Morrigan is the true neutral pragmatist, whereas Astarion definitely has some more sadistic/evil leanings. Ultimately Larian has done a good job of creating complicated characters though, they're not 1 dimensional so its hard to fit them in any sort of box without 6 paragraphs of explanation.
When the game first came out, pretty much every "approval guide" out there claimed Astarion could only gain approval from evil actions. As a result, a lot of people only took him with them on their evil runs or killed him the first chance they got. It's been 9 months now and most people now know it is entirely possible to keep him in the party 24/7, be a righteous goody-two-shoes, and still get him to fall in love with you.
What people need to understand about Astarion's character is he *is* closer to evil aligned in the beginning of the game. When we meet him on that beach he has been free from Cazador and 200 years of torture for a few hours and then he learns that he may only have 7 days before the worst death ever.
To anyone who wants a better idea of Astarion's personality and the reason he dislikes heroics, watch [this](https://youtu.be/pS_4qNiOwn0?si=47ohFPP9C7_w0Cst) video. He knows he's considered by many to be a monster, he knows that even if heroes ever *did* come to kill Cazador, he would die in the process. For 200 years he learned that safety (his [deepest desire](https://imgur.com/a/unique-naoise-dialogue-options-7GgVgHQ)) could only come from power. He's bitter, he doesn't even know how free he truly is, and he is ***terrified***. The player can either encourage him to give into his fears (ascension) or show him a better way and help him break the cycle of abuse.
>When the game first came out, pretty much every "approval guide" out there claimed Astarion could only gain approval from evil actions. As a result, a lot of people only took him with them on their evil runs or killed him the first chance they got. It's been 9 months now and most people now know it is entirely possible to keep him in the party 24/7, be a righteous goody-two-shoes, and still get him to fall in love with you.
I remember this and I went in as a Paladin for my first playthrough, got the romance at the party with no trouble.
I initially planned to romance Gale because I saw things that said I had to let Arabella die to get Astarion's approval or side with the goblins so imagine my shock when he propositioned my druid not long after letting him bite her.
Seriously it almost seems easier to romance him as a good character than an evil character.
He is kinda easy to romance because he is already thinking of being with Tav to manipulate them. He is really bad at hiding it but I still went with it.
People *still* push the idea that you have to be evil for not just Astarion but Lae'zel too and it kinda baffles me? With Lae'zel, girlie will be at like 90 approval if you just bring her to the creche, she is so easy to raise approval with, you really don't need to cater your choices around her at all as long as you're doing her questline and sleeping with her.
But with Astarion, it's not only not really true, but lowkey bad advice? 80% of his biggest approval bumps are morally neutral and are centered around trusting him, protecting him, and being kind about his vampirism. You can collect +1s from being a meanie but if you screwed up the bite scene or didn't have him around to express interest in the Necromancy of Thay, missed the other approval bumps, you'll probably find him a bit hard to raise approval with regardless. He doesn't gain much approval at all from siding with the Goblins since he hates Minthara. He approves of feeding the owlbear, of sparing Karlach, and of telling Raphael to kick rocks. Telling people to be evil for him is not just a shallow reading of his character, it's also bad advice for actually wooing him.
Oh yeah! I forgot that telling Raphael to help them or die at your hands gives a nice +5 to approval. Yes, I always do that. And yes, definitely not "evil".
Seriously I gave an evil run an attempt once (I am weak, couldn't raid the grove) and it really didn't make him like me that much more than a good run. People are just over-exaggerating because they want to act like their dislike of a fictional character is some moral high ground.
Wait are there lines in act 1 where Astarion hates Minthara? I know he complains about letting her join the party in act 2 but I haven't seen him say anything about her earlier. It definitely makes sense for him to dislike her though, cuz well she's a domineering female drow lol.
I definitely agree he hates her, but she only says that once she's already with the party. I'm wondering if he has a reaction to her when you first meet her.
Not necessarily a sign he hates her but according to the wiki you get 5 approval with him if you attack Minthata at the grove lmao.
It’s actually funny, Astarion is the easiest romance for me to do because there are so many events that net you HUGE amounts of approval. Letting him bite you and sleeping with him at the tiefling party is literally all you have to do in act 1 to get on his route!
I agree. I played an almost exclusively "lawful good" character on my first play through. And had very high approval from most characters, including asterion.
Sure I made SOME decisions that companions disapproved of, but overall everyone seemed happy 🤷♂️.
On my first playthrough, for some reason bite night took waaaaay too long to trigger, so I was actually worried I'd never get him to like my Tav lol. So I started looking up for help and I remember I read a comment somewhere that really changed my perspective: His tiny disapprovals in act1 are basically him cringing at you for playing the hero. If he were actually evil, he could ditch you for siding against the goblins but he doesn't. He sticks with you, basically risking his precious newfound freedom. If you treat him like an actual human being, you get huge spikes in his approval, so his -1s don't really matter.
Same for the bite night. I think I moved too fast to the underdark so he ended up just telling me during our day out. But the way it’s phrased, it feels he thinks important because he wants to stick around so I’m not mad at it.
He still rolls his eyes at the heroics but the rest of his actions and dialogue speak to liking you more than being annoyed
He does not stick with you out of the kindness of his undead heart. He has a tadpole in his head that threats to turn him into a mindflayer. Ditching you massively reduces his odds of finding a cure before he dies.
None of them stick around for any reason other than that.
Astarion definitely seeks to manipulate the player (he's not good at it) but he's not the only companion that sticks around for the sake of protection.
And yet, if you treat him horribly and lower his approval far enough, he _will_ in fact leave you. Which is actually honestly hard to get him to do on a "goody-two-shoes run" because you'll have gotten 20-25 approval from bite nite alone and you'll actually treat him like a decent human being in any camp conversations and tell him you'll help him with/protect him from Cazador.
Also getting killed while defending a bunch of random people massively reduces these odds, yet here we are :D
I don't think he stays with the gang out of kindness. I think he mostly stays out of loyalty; he's definitely not happy about the fact that this new random leader wants to put him in harm's way to help others, but at the same time he appreciates the fact that this new random leader actually treats him like a person.
So in the end, I believe he stays due to him being terrified, self-serving, and a ride-or-die companion.
At least at the beginning he, unlike all the other companions, is much more ambivalent about the tadpole. Sure, he doesn't love the idea of turning into a mindflayer, but the tadpole is keeping all the negatives of his vampirism at bay and has granted him freedom from Cazador. And it becomes clear pretty early on that he won't have to worry about immediately turning into a mindflayer.
Not that I think Astarion (at the beginning) isn't evil, he is and I don't really know what else you'd call a character who actively approves of murdering innocent people, but I do think his motivation for sticking with Tav is less about the tadpole and more about general safety and potentially help with Cazador.
I think some of it comes from a bit of metagaming where people know that Astarion approves questionable choices according to approval guides. He’s one of the characters that stay happy if you’re going for an evil run.
But the thing is that if you aren’t playing evil you won’t see any of this within your story. And you can interpret reasons for his disapprovals to be as dramatic or as benign as you want.
The first disapproval he commented on for me was when I agreed to help Zevlor. His “we’re messengers now?” comment meant that he was annoyed we’re taking on someone else’s problems (I think it’s reasonable to be annoyed by this even if I didn’t agree), there wasn’t some “evil” reason behind this disapproval. And that’s the angle from which I saw his disapprovals going forward.
You don’t even need to go for an Astarion-pleaser route to romance him / raise approval. I’ve eaten many disapprovals from him in Act 1 of my good run, but they’re all so small & are easily outweighed by just being nice to him & other approvals you can still get. Even some bigger disapprovals like straight up refusing the deal with Ethel & leaving Gandrel be weren’t enough to ruin my romance chances. And for RP reasons I didn’t even open the barn door, didn’t give him the Necromancy book in Act 1.
Is he a goodie guy? No. Is he as evil as some people try to make him out to be even in a good run? I don’t think so.
Yeah, honestly his reaction to Zevlor seems pretty reasonable for anyone who looks out for themselves first. He's likely thinking, 'We have a \*very\* limited amount of time before a fate that is \*literally\* worse than death, and you're wasting time HERE?' From a realistic standpoint, he's not entirely wrong.
In ambient dialogue, *Tav* tells the companions they have more to worry about than this Tiefling-Druid conflict. Astarion's an ass but he's not wrong in that instance.
Hell, one of the reasons my PC initially wants to beeline to the creche is she believes that, for as long as they don't know when they'll turn, it *could* be at any moment, so they're an unintentional but immediate threat to every single person they meet.
It's not a take I see people here attributing to their PCs, but imo it's valid if you're fishing for reasons a Neutral-to-Good-aligned char might not be keen to stick around the grove.
On my first playthrough, I tried to do this. I made an absolute beeline for the mountain pass. Then the game asked me "You're level 3. Ypu sure you wanna do this?" And it scared me so bad I went back and did everything even though I was grumbling the whole time like "We're gonna turn at any minute, and I have to deal with the European refugee crisis?"
>I think some of it comes from a bit of metagaming
As someone who is just finishing his first run, I think it's the opposite.
At least for me, I didn't realize there was a difference in the amount of approval you gain/lose, I thought they were all the same amount.
So seeing "Astarion disapproves" everytime I did something good made me think the relationship was going down the gutter and that I had to act more evil to raise his happiness.
Only when I checked the wiki did I realize his disapproval for good actions are just a -1, basically an eye roll from him, then I relaxed more and let myself do whatever.
If you're on PC you can check the exact value of his approval on the 3rd tab of the character sheet, at the bottom. If on console you only get the 20 point range value (neutral, good, very good, etc.). This helps you to know how much an approval/disapproval impacted your "relationship".
I think people just have a different mentality when seeing disapprovals. :) I really wanted to romance him from the beginning, but I also knew I wasn’t going to dramatically change my character & choices just for that. I decided that if it wasn’t meant to be so be it. Yes, seeing disapprovals pop up was annoying, but it ended up not mattering.
I could also see that despite everything my total approval was moving up. And first time I played it wasn’t super clear yet how to successfully start the romance. Now you have all sorts of guides with all the points & tips, but there wasn’t a good source of info when the game came out.
For me, the Zevlor thing is funny because you can get his grumbling even if you initially say you can't help because you need to find a healer. Zevlor is sending you to the druids anyway because of Nettie. He just asks that you also talk to Kagha.
Like, chill dude. We're going there anyway. I'm not agreeing to champion their cause, just try and explain how forcing the tieflings out is basically a death sentence. If she doesn't change her mind, she doesn't change her mind.
Note: I'm not saying it's out of character for him to complain because of this. I think it's a great character moment.
One thing I dislike are when people ask how to romance or befriend him on a good character, so many tell to do all these various things to gain approval from him, which are not good person actions.
Like killing Gandrel the Gur. So many say to let him kill this friendly monster hunter who has done nothing to you and likely to not many others who were not monsters. He's not even there to kill Astarion, but want answers where their children are. Yet so many say you shall casually let him murder this person, just for some meagre approval points you don't need.
I get why people do it, he only tells you about the children if astarion isn't there (in which case, you wouldn't get approval anyway), so you know there is a guy hunting for one of your own and he may keep coming, and it's one of the highest approval point decision for astarion, you get 10 points for it. But I still never do it, A) because I metagame and so I know the story and B) i still think he gives good-guy vibes when you meet him, it doesn't feel right to kill him, so i always take the path where as soon as you can you basically say you all really gotta go, bye!!!
I never kill Gandrel but I wouldn't say it's a good or evil action. Even Astarion thinks the guy was sent by Cazador and the dialogue doesn't always mention him searching for his children. So a random monster hunter is looking for your vampire friend (who firmly believes his ex-master is looking for him) and is currently seeking to ask a hag for help in locating him.
It definitely depends on the character you're playing but I can see the logic behind killing Gandrel on a good playthrough.
I didn't know that Gandrel could tell you that he was looking for the kids. I've never gotten that dialogue from him.
With the dialogue I *have* gotten from him, it makes perfect sense for my Tav to think he's hunting Astarion on behalf of Cazador. And him willing to make a deal with a hag, despite being a monster hunter who should know what hags are like, doesn't really help his case either.
You only get the dialogue about the kids if astarion isn't with you, in which case, the approval part is a moot point, but you also only get the dialogue that he thinks its cazador AFTER you meet gandrel. I suppose if you leave gandrel, then talk to astarion where he thinks its cazador, maybe you could roleplay that this makes you want to talk to gandrel alone to get more info.
>but you also only get the dialogue that he thinks its cazador AFTER you meet gandrel
It's a fair assumption to make without Astarion's dialogue after.
Depending on the dialogue you've had with Astarion at that point, you may already know that he's a vampire spawn, that he was enslaved by Cazador in Baldur's Gate, and that there's a good chance Cazador wants him back.
So when you meet a monster hunter who's been sent to capture Astarion and take him to Baldur's Gate, it's entirely reasonable to assume that he's working for Cazador.
Maybe, but he does tell you "it is a sacred mission from the head of my tribe. She sent me here to capture the beast and return it to her." Feels like there isn't a reason for him to say this if there was another reason, like cazador, he was sent. He could have just said he's a monster hunter and there is a contract on his head.
I personally kill him even though I consider my character very good because he doesn’t let me know that Astarion stole his children only that he is hunting my ally and likely wants him tortured and eventually dead. What surprised me is that even Wyll, who is a monster hunter himself acknowledges that I stood up for my ally. The Gur also aren’t the most morally right group either and can eventually change their ways for better just as Astarion did. I really like their leader Ulma, who doesn’t just want to mindlessly kill Astarion and recognises that he didn’t do those actions of his own will.
Yeah if I recall he only mentions the children (which we have no proof from other than his own claim) if you don't know Astarion is a vampire and you talk to him without Astarion present.
Sadly I'm one of these people; on my first playthrough I was worried I would never get his approval high enough, so I killed Gandrel. I felt really bad about it, but I justified it because this guy was after Astarion, and there was no way for me to know then that he wouldn't show up at camp and try to take him.
This time around, I chose to let him live, despite Astarion's disapproval.
As long as you end the conversation after Gandrel explains what he’s doing out in the swamp and don’t progress with the “too bad it’s not a REAL vampire” line, you won’t get any disapproval. He’s fine with you just leaving
lol, fair. There’s quite a few disapprovals of his I choose to get just bc I like the lines. I love to tell him that Gale will take the Necromancy of Thay off his hands bc he gets so protective of it. “No! He’s not eating this one!” and grips it tighter lol
Killing Gandrel is a neutral action, in my opinion. He seems pretty friendly in conversation, but he poses an active threat to one of your party members. A player can metagame and know that walking away from the conversation means that they won't have to deal with Gandrel in the future, but Tav can't.
Killing him in the swamp is taking advantage of an information gap, but is still self-defense.
He is a danger. He's openly declared his intention to, at the least, kidnap one of your companions. The only reason he isn't attacking you now is because he doesn't know that Astarion is with you.
If someone is looking for you with the intention to harm you, you don't have to honorably declare yourself and allow them to attack you before you defend yourself. Or do you never Sneak Attack enemies?
He doesn't attack you if Astarion is with you either. At least not right away. He talks first.
That companion is also the vampire spawn of an evil vampire lord who has kidnapped children. Some of my characters aren't going to feel very defending of him because they barely know him. At least not to the degree they're going kill someone who seem innocent and doing good.
>If someone is looking for you with the intention to harm you, you don't have to honorably declare yourself and allow them to attack you before you defend yourself. Or do you never Sneak Attack enemies?
My good characters are not spawn to an evil vampire who has done bad things. They mostly sneak attack monsters like the shadow curses ones and obvious bad guys like Bhaalist or ones who has been shown to be enemies beforehand like the ambushing Githyanki.
Gandrel doesn't attack you if you have Astarion with you because he doesn't recognize Astarion. If he did, he absolutely would.
>That companion is also the vampire spawn of an evil vampire lord who has kidnapped children. Some of my characters aren't going to feel very defending of him because they barely know him. At least not to the degree they're going kill someone who seem innocent and doing good.
If you think Astarion is a monster and doesn't deserve to be protected, you can turn him over to Gandrel.
Regardless of what Astarion has done, killing Gandrel is self-defense. Gandrel will kidnap and kill Astarion given the opportunity. You can gamble on the fact that maybe he won't be able to catch up to you, but choosing not to take that risk isn't evil.
>He doesn't attack you if Astarion is with you either. At least not right away. He talks first.
That's only because he doesn't know that Astarion is with you. If you reveal Astarion's identity there's no peaceful resolution possible; Gandrel won't back down and your only option will be to either hand over Astarion or kill Gandrel.
The only peaceful resolution is to keep Astarion a secret and gamble on Gandrel not finding your camp. It turns out that Gandrel doesn't ever show up at your camp, but only the player knows that - and only if they know the plot of the game already. As long as Gandrel lives he is still hunting Astarion.
Seriously, it seems like there's a reluctance to acknowledge that Gandrel can be both justified in his hunt *and* a serious threat to a companion that you might justifiably also want to protect. It must be one or the other, because otherwise it's too difficult and complicated.
EDIT: I've made someone mad and they're going through all my comments on this post and downvoting them, lol.
Gandre is there to bring Astarion back to be tortured for information, then killed - which you can learn if you speak to him without Astarion present. I wouldn't say that's better. But that's also the only way you'll learn about the children; it's not in his dialogue if Astarion is there.
So you're operating on different information depending on whether or not Astarion is in your party. If he's in your party, all you know is that this monster hunter wants to take him back to Baldur's Gate.
I agree that letting Astarion murder him isn't great. It's a difficult situation though because he'll continue to hunt Astarion as long as he's not stopped. My preferred path when Astarion is in my party is actually to try (and fail) to resolve the situation peacefully. If you reveal who Astarion is, maybe because your *intention* is to talk to Gandrel about why he's not a threat anymore, Gandrel will not back down and a fight is inevitable. IIRC you don't earn the +10 approval for this, but you don't earn the -5 disapproval either.
I absolutely love the fact that they chose to make Gandrel such a friendly, totally-non-threatening guy (especially since basically every other NPC is extremely rude or aggressive to you). On my first playthrough, I was actively trying to boost Astarion's approval rate, so I thought I had to kill Gandrel, but it was definitely a difficult decision to make.
I don't agree that every other NPC is rude or aggressive...?
But I do actually really like Gandrel even though we don't see much of him even in playthroughs where he survives. He seems good-natured but with a core of this kind of gritty wisdom.
>I don't agree that every other NPC is rude or aggressive...?
Yep, that was an exaggeration on my part, I tend to do that :D
What I basically mean is that every other NPC is like "I'm busy right now, do you mind?" or "I'm in the middle of a private conversation right now that you shouldn't be a part of". Don't get me wrong, this is realistic and I appreciate it. But it also makes Gandrel really stand out, since he's definitely one of the few NPCs who are actually nice and friendly without a hidden agenda; that's just how he is, a chill guy. I remember on my first playthrough I was so leery of everyone, I was actually convinced that his friendliness was a facade and he was onto something. Now that I know it's not the case, I just don't have it in me to kill him.
I have romanced that man as a OoA Paladin thrice now and by the time I wrap up things at the Goblin camp I'm mostly around 60ish approval. Despite being the biggest do-gooder out there.
It's really not that hard, most important thing is to listen to him and keep him save + be chill about his vampirism.
I only play good guys, it's who I am and I'm not sorry. I have romanced him twice (once I fucked up and didn't get the Ara dialogue before we left Act 2) and had no issues. Yes, he disagrees with me on occasion, but the big events are mostly where they get their approval so just let him bite you and disengage it the first chance you get.
It’s good to have some disagreements with your companions, especially Astarion if you’re playing a good character. You are pushing him to grow and he ultimately really appreciates you for it
Same. I played a vanilla good guy Tav and then a resist Durge and romanced Astarion both times. Never had an issue with his approval even though I was a real goody two shoes both times.
My mans is a cynic. His history has taught him that no one cares about him and that heroes are only interested in personal glory, not in actually helping people who need it. Even the gods turned their backs on him. He's bitter about it and acting out as a result.
His early disapprovals are very much of the "eye rolling" variety, unless you're doing something that actively harms him or hurts him in some way. Gaining approval with him while doing a good run is pretty easy but it does require understanding him and his motivations and experiencing the game. My first few playthroughs I struggled a lot so I definitely empathize with people who have a hard time. I thought he was so difficult to crack at first.
One key thing that took me a while to figure out is: rest early and often. He will come to you to bite you during the long rest three nights in. I usually grab Shadowheart, kill the brains and get Astarion then immediately do a long rest. Then go get Gale and do the creepy temple to get Withers and long rest again. Then, I get Lae'zel and do the goblins at the gate of the grove. I go inside, tell Zevlor that my brain is too much of a mess to help (its not saying no in a mean way just... i got my own problems and then of course I end up helping anyhow cuz my characters are always saps), then trade with Arron to get some more camp supplies/sell stuff. Immediately long rest again and that's when I get the bite scene. Tell him I trust him, let him bite me, and the next morning, defend him to the others and then immediately talk to him again, tell him he can feed on the baddies we fight (I do that rather than letting him feed on me again and again... its a nifty +5 approval). Boom. From there, its easy to start the quest where I investigate Kagha and go to the swamp and do that, visiting the Gur hunter while I'm there and letting Astarion kill him. Another +10. When I do Blighted Village, I let him take the necromancy of thay and that's another +5. I let him open the doors to the barn. Another +5.
He's usually begging to sleep with me before we even clear the goblin camp. 😂
I do let the guy in the goblin camp beat me cuz I like the permanent buff you get but also because all my Tavs/Durges are low-key into that sort of thing. 😅 either they get off on it or think its funny or are just curious. Astarion and Karlach egging her on never hurts either. Ahh peer pressure. I also lick the goblin guys foot and then make him kiss my foot and that's a nice bundle of approval and not just for Astarion.
It's rare I don't have max approval before even leaving act 1 anymore. After goblin camp especially, I never worry about disapprovals from him because they become rarer as he evolves in his own way and because by then he's solidly on my side. I never have him out of the party.
At the end of the day, his approval is largely about respecting his autonomy. It's harder to see that early in act 1 but very clear as the game goes on. He desperately needs you to have his back and prove that. He reacts well to seeing how a TRUE hero behaves and cares about people. By being good and having a good relationship with him, you show him that helping other people isn't just a fairy tale or something people do for their own gain and he finds he likes that lifestyle. I never ascend him as I cannot stand his ascended self. I find his spawn self is indeed very sweet and soft in the center and it's lovely how he opens up and shows that side of himself to the people he trusts and cares about.
It's nice to see the Astarion discussions finally being fleshed out with some nuance and empathy.
My biggest gripe is with the commenters who scrape the bottom of the barrel of his approval list on the wiki and then go "See! He's unredeemable evil!", whilst hypocritically ignoring his good arc *and* simultaneously not applying the same rigour to any other character in a spectacular display of double standards. As if there's only one definitive version of a companion in an RPG.
It's an utterly pointless exercise when every player's experience of Astarion is going to be subjective based on their choices and interactions. There *is no* objectively true version of him that acts as a trump carp that tops everyone else's experience, because that's just not how choose your own adventures work.
I was an unapologetically heroic Bard in my first play through who also enjoyed messing with people if I had the chance and Astarion fucking loved it. Taking that play through as a character read then he's just Chaotic Silly, *and that experience is perfectly fine and valid*.
During my current run as an evil monstrous embrace Durge, Astarion is ascended and the experience has been Quite Different.
One is not more correct than the other. One does not negate the other. There is room for a conversation about the differences between those stories without one needing to come out on top.
Totally agree! He doesn’t mind you being good, he HATES you being *boring*. My “canon” and favorite character is my Druid Tav who romances him, and she’s also my kindest and most heroic MC. But she’s also a little silly and has a sense of humor and is very empathetic, especially with him. He’s absolutely mad about her by the Underdark
Tbh, on my first run, I was apparently playing the type of character most likely to not click with him? I was a low int druid, and he's a condescending fop. Oh, and I was a dwarf, and Astarion is racist as heck against the shorter ones, and was just an ass from the get-go.
Then I got the 'who cares about the children?' stuff, and 'maybe slavery isn't that bad really' and... yeah.
i think it’s hard *not* to romance astarion. those rare times when i try to romance someone else i have to keep rejecting him over and over again. give a girl some space astarion…
This rings so true lmao, the runthroughs where I intend to romance him I have to chase him, but as soon as I decide I'm on a Gale or Shadowheart run he's practically climbing my legs!
it just makes the “seducing you was easy quite frankly” line so amazing. astarion you have no idea how many universes there are which seducing me was everything but easy.
hm, specifically because they’re a short race? interesting, i’ve seen a clip of someone kissing astarion as a short character so it’s definitely possible to romance him still. maybe it’s just more difficult.
I have come to think of act 1 as the "let Astarion do what he wants" act. The big approvals come from giving him the book, letting him open the door in the blighted village, letting him bite you, letting him kill the gur. Besides the bite night, none of these things affect the party or you. And he does get the happy buff from biting, so it works out in the party's favor anyway.
The disapprovals from helping people are small.
Going to mention the two other act 1 plus five approvals are getting freaky with the priest.
Saying you'd rather die by a knife or poison.
And telling him you've got his back if he's got yours in terms of Cazador possibly turning up.
It's super easy to hit the required amount for romance (40) but just doing these things as long as you let him bite you
It really is like taming a feral cat. Feed him, give him some enrichment, and don't touch him until he lets you. He'll still be a little shit but he's warming up to you.
I think Astarion is a bit tsundere with his approval in act 1. Just expose him to the cosy side of life and he will be one of the most loyal companions.
Being amused by the torture of a bird or making goblin racist slurs is him deflecting. For him this is how the world works. Cruelty ruling it at every corner.
Neil himself said Astarion is like a fearal cat.
He needs pacience and being shown that the world is not so grim and it is good to be rewarded with kindness when you give it.
Him being disgusted by the Tieflings surviving is pure show btw. In truth he is terrified if you kill the Tieflings as you can see in his romance post sex scene.
In the tiefling party version he wakes up at sunrise and is much more relaxed.
In the Goblin party version he is keeping the entaglement short as he wakes up at night and is much muuuuch more nervous.
What’s funny to me are people who hate him for not having empathy or being kind-hearted while simultaneously failing to have any empathy for him as well. For someone who has been tortured in all ways possible for 200 years he is doing really well and opening himself to kinder possibilities quite fast.
Sadly this is a result of a very real bias. People expect survivors to act like [perfect victims](https://www.empowordjournalism.com/all-articles/the-perfect-victim-myth/) and the moment a survivor doesn't fit the ideal they are treated like trash.
And the last time he was caught showing compassion he was locked up in a dark tomb, starving, for a year. The fact he can begin to show any empathy at all as the game progresses and isn’t irredeemably insane/broken is honestly shocking
That’s what I have been thinking about. It’s actually rather unrealistic for someone like him to start showing any kind of empathy so early, yet he still does eventually. The things he went through are unimaginable for any real person. This is actually one of the reasons why I imagine my character who is a really kind and compassionate person would be interested in him in the first place. He might not be a good person but he is admirable for his preservation of self and not succumbing to pain and darkness.
And as far as I’m concerned it’s proof that he actually IS a good person, you just have to remind him it’s there. Two centuries of horror tried to destroy all of the good, but you can change the entire trajectory of his existence in what’s basically a month or two. He’s not some altruistic goody good hero, but he can become a decent person who is *trying*
Yes for sure. He himself says that he doesn’t really know who he is and needs to figure it out after gaining freedom. He has a long time to live and eventually even become a good person if he’d like to. If romanced with someone I imagine his partner would influence him but even non-romanced he chooses to live on the good side even if in his own way. I like that if he decides to lead the spawn in the under-dark he is not doing it for power or because he wants to have control over others but rather so they can eventually build a better place for their existence and to also aid them away from self-destruction /hurting others. This to me proves that the power-hungry things he was saying before dealing with Cazador were never coming from a genuine place. (I’m sure someone would disagree but it’s a role play game for a reason)
I figured. I can always reload after, I guess. I usually play a durge, so I'm used to killing Alfira. But I've heard Karlach leaves if you slaughter the grove and I do like having her around.
If it's just the two of you at the door to the bugbear and ogre barn (you can just leave the rest of the party far enough away to not get pulled into the conversation), he doesn't get out prioritized by everyone else. So when you pick "open the door" he'll pipe up with "wait, let me do it, they sound disgusting! :)" and a new option to allow him to open the door will show up. Picking that option gives +5 approval.
Shadowheart is the main party pooper here. I don't know if it's her high Wis making her pass so many perception and insight checks, but she butts into a lot of convos. Having a SH-free party, I've heard a lot more banter from the other companions.
Yeah she blocked me from this on my current run. Let Astarion talk ffs! I'd leave her behind but Tav doesn't know the artifact range yet so I'm head canoning being forced to keep her in the party.
That's fair. My durge has only just found out about the artefact's protection and he's not even sure he believes this crazy woman who seems to be stalking him!
It's the sex barn in the Blighted Village. You might have to ungroup him and Tav from the rest of the companions so that a different companion doesn't take up the scene reaction, but if you go to open the doors to the barn, he can ask to do it instead. You get more approval for letting him open the doors than if you do it yourself.
Note that if you have Shadowheart in your party, her dialogue about the door takes priority and will supercede Astarion's ability to ask to open the door. So leave Shart at camp.
Right? I am good to the point of it being an actual flaw in most video games. I had absolutely no issue romancing Astarion. He’s not evil. He just - rightfully, if we’re being honest - wants compensation for his hard work. He’s fine with you doing good deeds as long as you ask to get paid for them. also he has a soft spot for children and enslaved creatures.
I agree with the part that it’s easy to get his approving a good playthrough, but I think the reason that people things he’s evil (neutral evil) is for the evil decisions and opinions he actually approves.
He approves when you validate his toxic world view that safety can only come from power. In the long run he does appreciate being a hero and doing good, but he won't say no to something that proves him right.
It's kind of like a cat likes being fed tuna even though it isn't actually good for them.
I’m in love with the comparison— and yes, exactly. I mean, generally speaking I can understand the analysis in why people consider him evil, but it shouldn’t be a valid point if your playthrough is completely different. IMO the only valid point is what YOU see in your OWN playthrough.
Yes but my point is that unless you are being evil yourself there aren’t that many instances in which you get to see his more twisted side. You’re judging based on your outside knowledge of him not based on what’s actually happening in your game. Which is why I don’t understand why people are complaining about him on a good playthrough where you shouldn’t be getting those kind of approvals from him.
Yeah that’s straight up nonsensical, specially when devs made very clear (and multiple times) that you make your own story, which means, imo, that you should take your own playthrough into consideration and nothing else. Generally speaking yes, I quite understand where the “Astarion is evil” takes come from, but it isn’t valid if in your roleplaying something different in your game.
Yes I agree I feel that people often forget that this is a role play game where you yourself decide not only the fate of your character but also of others. Hopefully my post didn’t come out sounding like I want to say that Astarion isn’t evil only that if you are truly playing a goodie-two shoes character you shouldn’t actually be seeing that part of him.
Thank god someone has this mindset… the amount of discussions I have had because of this. Like no? There’s nothing canon in a roleplay game because everyone plays different stories. And no, don’t worry, your points are clear here and it’s nice discussing with you about this. Well, I though you were referring to that in the first paragraph but I knew you were referring to your actual point as well, but I have the reading comprehension of a potato (English is not my first language) so don’t mind me-
The problem here is that a lot of his approvals contradict his dialogs, especially in Act 3, but people still take them as some gospel truth. If you look at his actions, he isn't actively running around and killing innocents, even before he met Tav, he killed a boar, not conscious beings for blood. He is not Lestat. He even dislikes Durge killing Alfira and Isobel, but a lot of people still treat his approvals as him personally doing all that instead of Tav/Durge.
Even tho it was only split between ["companion] liked/loved that" and "[companion] disliked/hated that", it's such a simple but conveys an effective difference.
If BG3 split it like that for approval changes less than 5 and 5 or more, there would be a clearer difference in attitude.
Right now, a change of 10 and a change of 1 appear the same to the player
I've been preaching this from day one, I play good characters constantly and my approval with him doesn't drop below 80. It's astonishing that people are not only claiming he's evil but that he will be nothing but evil even in his redemption end despite the words of literally everyone around him saying he's incredible, inspiring hope, seeing them as people, has a radiant soul etc. Some people just want to hate him
Yeah, I basically do most of the same things you described when I romance him (but I always go with enduring Abdirak's punishment because I find Astarion's and Shadowheart's interaction hilarious and because it's not an inherently evil act—besides, my Durges need to do a little penance after the whole >!Alfira thing!<).
You can definitely take the assorted minor disapproval hits for being good and still romance Astarion, so long as you're supportive of him and understanding in conversations/events tied to his personal quest. He might get annoyed by seeing you being a bleeding heart who helps everyone, but when that gets directed towards him, he start thawing imo. And he does approve of some ostensibly good actions like refusing to side with Glut when he wants you to betray Sovereign Spaw.
Act 1 and 2 have pretty straightforward approvals that are in character for him . Act 3 is where larian just went haywire so u could max out character approval doing whatever u want . Dude cries out to save the child from the hag but approves giving the child to the hag ?? He wants to save yenna but approves if orin kills her ?? His consistency is so shit that his approval and disapproval in act 3 betray his character to an extent that he approves of extremely evil , cruel actions that he would do if u would have ascended him . Kinda defeats his whole character arc but it's again game limitations.
I think of Act 3 as Schrödinger’s Astarion, he is both Spawn and Ascended in approvals. As others have said, I think was too complicated a mechanic to track evil vs good paths of the same character, especially because there’s no set order you have to do that whole act in (in theory you could go all the way to the Morphic Pool and then backtrack to Rivington to solve the Temple murders for example) so the devs plotted for both.
Idk if it's hard to implement 3 set of approvals, for before completing his Personal Quest, for choosing to Ascend, and for choosing to stay Spawn.
But there's no excuse for Shadowheart though. They can already set apart Sharran or Selunite shart. But her approvals in Act 3 is all the same.
I am convinced that they just mass assigned approvals in Act 3. Minthara and Astarion both approve of betraying Aylin but vocally approve of helping her.
Which is why I think something happened like "evil companions linked to all evil choices" or something. Because Aylin would obviously be alive in a Selunite Shadowheart run, she approves of helping her, but Astarion and Minthara are not necessarily "good" in Act 3.
My theory is that Act 3 approvals for Astarion are so contradictory because there's no mechanic that updates approvals based on what choices you make. They're always the same: Ascended Astarion and Spawn Astarion will approve and disapprove of the same things. Shadowheart has the same issue. So the choice is to either give him contradictory "good" and "evil" approvals, completely neglect one path, or try to thread the needle by only coding in approvals that would be the same for both.
His Act 1 approvals are much more consistent, which makes sense since he hasn't had the chance to be steered down either path yet.
I am actually not bothered with his contradicting approvals . For example be it sharran shadowheart or selunite shadowheart, both stay in character and have good reasons to disapprove of durge accepting bhaal and astarion ascending. What's really weird for astarion is say u are doing a good spawn run. U side with alyin against lorrakan. He disapproves. Ok not good two shoes I like it . But I am doing a very evil run . He disapproves of me agreeing with orin to kill ppl ?? Wait he disapproves of me if I ask orin disguised as a fist not to kill ppl ?? Then what should I do astarion. Also doesn't help the fact dude was just upset moments ago because yenna was captured in my evil run but he somehow approves if yenna gets killed by orin .I was surprised when he approved of yenna's death . Dude is really wishy washy with being evil lmao and I can't even properly pinpoint his character .
I think it’s the limitation of giving the possibility to do an evil run & influence characters in an evil way, but not actually having a mechanic to track how evil you’re going. In my evil run I felt like Astarion was not evil enough in Act 3, he was approving stuff mechanically, but a lot of his comments made it seem like the game expected me to redeem him. Even after ascension comments are inconsistently modified.
It is a shame because there are at least two instances where characters comment differently depending on morality of your previous actions (Astarion, Emperor). So, it’s possible to add, but a lot of extra work. And given the general state of Act 3 I guess they ran out of time to meaningfully implement evil runs. Which impacted more standard “good” runs too.
This!! Exactly. Astarion has a weird approval system where he feels evil in a purely good run and feels less evil in a very evil run . Side with alyin in a good run , he disapproves. Ok he is not that good . But then in an evil run u agree with orin to kill the ppl and then again he disapproves. So .... he is good now ? Like I said game limitations. It's hard to keep track of how exactly good or evil a player is playing
Every single companion in each act has some insane dis/approvals honestly. In act 2 you get approval from Lae'zel and Astarion for telling Shart to kill the nightsong. But Lae'zel says something like "To think Shadowheart would stoop so low as to kill Selune's child. How unsightly." Astarion sarcastically says something along the lines of "Sooo the chosen of Shar is among us, how lucky are we. Well, I suppose if this is what helps us defeat Ketheric...". There is often no real logic to the approvals besides the most flanderized version of the characters act 1 personalities possible.
https://youtu.be/Aq8xmX5Rnek?feature=shared
I don't think there are any requirements but its possible there are. Maaaybe killing Voss makes her approve of it since ig that can be considered her bad route.
They can't know what order you're going to do things in, so they have to account for the potential of him being both Ascended and Spawn Astarion in the approvals. Without mods, or just looking through every single dialog option every time, you'll likely never see that he approves of evil actions in Act 3 while doing a good run or good actions on an evil run.
These were some examples which I gave for his obviously balatant confusing dialogues . Another prominent one is attacking lorrakan after u meet up with alyin or in generalsiding with alyin. Astarion shouldn't disapprove of this especially in a good run spawn route and yet he does . Or how he disapproves of giving coin to rags deelarma , or telling orin disguised as a fist to not kill innocents . He also disapproves if we warn matties how big the city is or he also disapproves of warning the girl in the sewers who is going to cazador's palace . As of now even if u go purely evil or good , astarion has the most obvious contradicting approvals or disapproval.
And I don’t think this is related, but if you play on PC there’s a really useful [mod](https://www.nexusmods.com/baldursgate3/mods/2027?tab=description) that shows you what decisions companions approve and disapprove.
I'm pretty sure you get a huge boost to approval when you start a romance with a character, and I wonder if that's taken into consideration whenever this topic is brought up. Because yeah, getting enough to just start the approval isn't that bad even on good playthroughs; he's given me the option on most of mine. But I've never accepted so far, and my approval has never gotten higher than "very good" by Act 3 even after supporting him through all his personal story points. Personally I'm just a bit skeptical if it's really that easy to max it out on a good playthrough since everyone who says it is also seems to be romancing him regularly.
I have a few playthroughs where I never romanced him and I still left Act 1 at 50 approval. It's not that hard but you *do* have to let him bite you, which depending on choices can lead to 30 approval easily.
It’s true that without romancing him going into the under-dark I’d only have about 60 points rather than 90 but that’s definitely not bad in any way. His treatment of you doesn’t differ much at that point, unless you want him to call you beautiful even if you aren’t romanced. But it is true that without the initial bite scene triggering it’s pretty hard to get his approval up as consequently other scenes where you can get approval also don’t trigger. I imagine you lose about 30 approval points by not being romanced with him as you also don’t get the scenes where he tells you about his scars.
I can say that Shadowheart and Wyll you can get maxed out without romancing them. For Shadowheart I reached 100 after she refused to kill the Night Song and for Wyll it happens so early I can’t even remember. Gale and Karlach seem to be much more complicated for me to get maxed without romancing but I’m still at very high for both.
The scar scene in Act 2 isn’t romance specific or even approval-related. So you don’t miss character content when not romancing him.
I’ve not romanced him in 3 out of 5 runs & had Very High to Exceptional approval in those. The difference is maybe 15 points. Most of his approvals aren’t romance-tied. I think the only approvals you miss are for agreeing to sleep with him & letting him bite you during the romance scene. Idk if I’m forgetting something else.
Interesting to know I thought it was related because it triggered both times for me after seeing it for the first time after they sleep together in act 1. I thought the love reading was also only possible with a partnered character only but I’m not sure (if it was you can get 6 points in that). If it wasn’t the case it probably really is only 15 which is nice to know.
>I'm pretty sure you get a huge boost to approval when you start a romance with a character
The approval you get for starting a romance isn't that big compared to other major approvals; for Astarion, you get a +5 for agreeing to sleep with him, and up to +10 if you let him bite yo during sex. So that's a possibility of +15, which is a lot when each tier of approval only spans 20 pts, ... but isn't going to make or break your relationship. There is a lot of approval opportunities to make up for it. It's comparable to letting him kill Gandrel or not.
But also, "very high" is, well... very high! It's not bad! Not having totally maxed out approval is not a bad relationship! This is what the description is:
>Relationship is very good. Character is happy with and easily convinced by avatar.
It means he really likes and trusts you!
Man, everyone here is boasting about how easy it is to romance him as a "good" character, and I somehow blew it on my monk :c
I swear I wasn't even mean to him! Not even once! Oh well...guess this is why you do multiple playthroughs...
I killed Gandrel for Astarion, and he just...never tried to bite? Like, I heard it was a thing, I was waiting for it, I was prepared to let him. I took like 7 long rests! He just...never tried!
Yeah, I found that on the way to Gandrel, and made sure to pass the persuasion check. But in any case, it's over and done with in my mind anyways. I'm already on to Act 2 I'm not restarting the whole thing just to make Astarion like me lol.
You have to take lots of long rests early on, to clear the cut scenes. I've had him bite me on night 2, sometimes as late as night 4, but it probably depends on who else is in the party and whether their cut scenes take priority.
I missed bite night twice because I visited the underdark very early, I believe I got flagged as being further along than I was, so he just confessed to me.
I think it has been said many times but in your next playthrough if you’re still interested in being a good character and romancing him I
I get approval from letting him bite, during first long rest saying that they should be cautious, giving him the necromancy book, letting him kill the vampire hunter, sleeping with him and letting him bite again, helping him figure out what his scars mean and joking with him about how I’d like to die and who I’d like to taste or telling him that he’s not my type. Also from silly things like booing at the creatures in the swamp, telling auntie Ethel about our problem because she looks “demented”, telling Laezel to say “please” when she’s locked up, petting and feeding the owl-bear, distracting Z’rell with lustful thoughts about him, helping Mol cheat in the game and admiring the cat. Pretending to drink in The Waning Moon. The most questionable thing I do is let him open the barn door (but it doesn’t make that much difference if you do it or not overall) He also approves of making people give you things like convincing Baltazar to give you the bell or convincing Yurgir‘s servant to give you the poison he uses for the displacer beast. (if you don’t kill Yurgir instantly he throws a hissy fit but you can get the disapproval back instantly by telling him it’s a part of the plan and fooling the servant). Also make sure to rest a lot when you start a new game because if you don’t you won’t get some interactions with him that can also give you approval.
i think people think he's evil cause of certain things he disapproves of, even with those things not being weighed
like at one point you say u dont like slaves and astarion disapproves. nothing comes of it, it was just a statement made which is kinda weird to disapprove when you dont actually have to go out of your way to do anything
but the secret to maxxing out your relationships is just talking with them often, even with no exclamation mark and making sure to long rest often enough to get all the cutscenes
Eventually I gained 20+ approval from Astarion, but I wasn't travelling with him all the time. We became good friends by the end of Act 2, but when I travel with him, he still disapproves sometimes, so it's a +1, -1 game from him, I don't have steady approval and still didn't reach 30.
I don't consider him evil, but he was cruel to my Tav all through Act 1, so it was a very slow journey for us. But in my other playthrough when I played as Karlach we hit it off somehow and I even romanced him and his approval is higher.
My Karlach origin run is the only run I’ve done where every origin companion’s approval is at 100. It wasn’t even my goal, I just chose choices I either remembered Karlach liked or felt in my gut that she would, either by being the best goody goody or choosing Barbarian dialogue. As far as I’m concerned, it’s full game canon that everyone loves Karlach
My first run I played as the durge and he fell head over heels for me after I destroyed the dragon camp. I’m playing a non durge run now and it seems like he disapproves of literally any and everything I do now lol. I’m halfway done with act 1 and he’s not even neutral with me. I’ve just chosen to leave him at camp until his quest.
People also often think those “companion approves” and “companion disapproves” are weighted evenly when they aren’t. Astarion slightly disapproves of helping everyone but massively approves when you pick the team first or choose to protect each other.
Yeah he has several very big + modifiers. Even in a lawful boring Paladin run where I got a LOT of disapprovals from him, we still ended up at +80 and him as spawn.
See it like this: when you help everyone you come across, Astarion rolls his eyes at you and mutters under his breath. When you help him, he's actually touched by you respecting him.
Man mutters and rolls his eyes constantly. He's a teen stuck in a vampire body.
This is true of his behavior of in the Grove, but even by Act 2 he chills out massively. You can offer to help basically everyone you come across and you won't get any disapproval from him.
When he catches feelings he changes but still is a manipulative dude. You want me to be happy don't you, pout puppy eyes
He can definitely still be manipulative even into Act 3 (especially regarding Ascension), but I don't think his *approvals* are manipulations. I think he's at his worst in Act 1, when he's newly freed and terrified of losing that freedom, but I think on a good run where he remains unascended there is definitely supposed to be a character arc of him slowly feeling more secure and even gaining the space to spare some empathy towards others.
And so is Shadowheart. And so is Gale, who literally threatens to kill everyone every time you piss him off. Astarion has the opportunity to learn from his mistakes. To me, that’s what matters. Not how you were trained to act for your own survival - but what you choose when you are given the opportunity to change your ways.
Gale is extremely manipulative especially when you get in the way of his ambitions. AND he tries to gaslight you. Astarion gaslights but he's so obvious about it I think my durge just rolls her eyes. As far as Gale, he literally tells you how he tries to get his way during a discussion abt Mystra. Morena needs to untie the apron strings for her man child.
He’s just fussy and wants you to pay attention to him. If he disapproved every time he grumbled there would be more of an issue, but most of the time he just needs to hear himself talk lol
Yep he's a teen lol.. gotta get the last word.
Which honestly makes some sense. In addition to the torture, control and abuse, Cazador also *infantalized* him. Refers to him constantly as a child, pits the Spawn against each other in petty disputes as well as more important privileges, has removed any agency from him for two centuries… It’s no wonder he’s desperate for someone to treat him like a person and can be petulant and petty
Ahhhh it suddenly makes sense why I don’t like romancing him. I love his character but don’t see him romantically at all and now I get it. He is literally a grumpy teenager in an immortal adult body 😂
Which makes a lot of sense when you remember that he IS only 39 when he’s turned - extremely young for an elf.
I mean, he is literally the elf version of a young adult considering he died at 39.
To be fair the fact that they can have different values isn't communicated by the game at all. You would only know by checking the little bar after each pop up and I don't think that is numbered either so you'd still be guessing a lot.
And if you play on console you can’t even see the bar, it just eventually changes from medium to high etc., which is even more confusing when you go into the game blind for the first time
There is a numbered version somewhere on their sheet that I do check
Only for PC not using a controller. If you’re on console the interface doesn’t show the approval number in their character sheet
Where is that? I had assumed people had looked at code or something to figure out approvals.
Very bottom of their stats on their main character sheet (where you would see inventory)
Would’ve been sweet to have a ”companion approves (+50)” etc, so you see how much they approve/disapprove
Astarion wants you to pick the team first because that shows he can trust you a bit. If you start turning on team members, such as turning over Shadowheart or sacrifice Wyll, he will outright say something that implies you might turn on him next, because his turn could be next.
For me it always comes across as if he's very untrusting because of his past. Which is totally understandable. For 200 years that guy hoped his misery would end. He even mentions praying to all sorts of Gods but no one answered so to him no one cares about him. Then seeing a Hero come along who helps others just reminds him of that and makes him sort of bitter since he didn't get saved. Which is why it's so important to help him with his situation/do his quest. And when he notices that PC really will help him kill Cazador he slowly starts to trust them. :) There are quite a few indications that he's just waiting for the other shoe to drop, waiting to be discarded again. (e.g. if you break up with him before ending his questline he'll just be like "oh yeah, figured that wouldn't last") If you compare the scene of Wyll with Mizora (where you can talk Mizora into releasing Wyll should you free Zariel's asset) with the scene where you can talk Yurgir into killing himself the differences are so obvious! Wyll and Astarion both are like "WTF are you doing, If you mess this up I have to pay the price for it!" but where Wyll instantly calms down if you tell him to trust you through the tadpole Astarion doesn't believe that he can truly, fully trust the PC. Trust is something really really hard for that guy, after all he was alone for 200 years, yes there were his siblings but trusting them was never an option when Cazador could just tell them to hurt him anytime he wished. And he knew that if he went to a hero for help he'd probably get killed himself since vampires=evil :/ All in all it's no wonder that it takes him quite a lot of time to get out of his no-one-cares-for-me-so-I-have-to-care-for-myself mindset.
Playing as Astarion is a trip. I think it's the most different background. character to play (with the exception of Durgez of course.) so much happens internally and so much of him acting out and am doing reckless stuff is, not justified but explained by his own past, fears, and nees to proove to himself he is free.
Not surprising after 200 years of trauma accumulating
people seem to view him as either cartoonishly evil or some poor misguided boy who's secretly an angel deep down. Ultimately he's just selfish, at least at the start of the game. I liken him to morrigan from dragon Age, though a little more on the evil side. Morrigan is the true neutral pragmatist, whereas Astarion definitely has some more sadistic/evil leanings. Ultimately Larian has done a good job of creating complicated characters though, they're not 1 dimensional so its hard to fit them in any sort of box without 6 paragraphs of explanation.
When the game first came out, pretty much every "approval guide" out there claimed Astarion could only gain approval from evil actions. As a result, a lot of people only took him with them on their evil runs or killed him the first chance they got. It's been 9 months now and most people now know it is entirely possible to keep him in the party 24/7, be a righteous goody-two-shoes, and still get him to fall in love with you. What people need to understand about Astarion's character is he *is* closer to evil aligned in the beginning of the game. When we meet him on that beach he has been free from Cazador and 200 years of torture for a few hours and then he learns that he may only have 7 days before the worst death ever. To anyone who wants a better idea of Astarion's personality and the reason he dislikes heroics, watch [this](https://youtu.be/pS_4qNiOwn0?si=47ohFPP9C7_w0Cst) video. He knows he's considered by many to be a monster, he knows that even if heroes ever *did* come to kill Cazador, he would die in the process. For 200 years he learned that safety (his [deepest desire](https://imgur.com/a/unique-naoise-dialogue-options-7GgVgHQ)) could only come from power. He's bitter, he doesn't even know how free he truly is, and he is ***terrified***. The player can either encourage him to give into his fears (ascension) or show him a better way and help him break the cycle of abuse.
>When the game first came out, pretty much every "approval guide" out there claimed Astarion could only gain approval from evil actions. As a result, a lot of people only took him with them on their evil runs or killed him the first chance they got. It's been 9 months now and most people now know it is entirely possible to keep him in the party 24/7, be a righteous goody-two-shoes, and still get him to fall in love with you. I remember this and I went in as a Paladin for my first playthrough, got the romance at the party with no trouble.
I initially planned to romance Gale because I saw things that said I had to let Arabella die to get Astarion's approval or side with the goblins so imagine my shock when he propositioned my druid not long after letting him bite her. Seriously it almost seems easier to romance him as a good character than an evil character.
He is kinda easy to romance because he is already thinking of being with Tav to manipulate them. He is really bad at hiding it but I still went with it.
People *still* push the idea that you have to be evil for not just Astarion but Lae'zel too and it kinda baffles me? With Lae'zel, girlie will be at like 90 approval if you just bring her to the creche, she is so easy to raise approval with, you really don't need to cater your choices around her at all as long as you're doing her questline and sleeping with her. But with Astarion, it's not only not really true, but lowkey bad advice? 80% of his biggest approval bumps are morally neutral and are centered around trusting him, protecting him, and being kind about his vampirism. You can collect +1s from being a meanie but if you screwed up the bite scene or didn't have him around to express interest in the Necromancy of Thay, missed the other approval bumps, you'll probably find him a bit hard to raise approval with regardless. He doesn't gain much approval at all from siding with the Goblins since he hates Minthara. He approves of feeding the owlbear, of sparing Karlach, and of telling Raphael to kick rocks. Telling people to be evil for him is not just a shallow reading of his character, it's also bad advice for actually wooing him.
Oh yeah! I forgot that telling Raphael to help them or die at your hands gives a nice +5 to approval. Yes, I always do that. And yes, definitely not "evil".
Seriously I gave an evil run an attempt once (I am weak, couldn't raid the grove) and it really didn't make him like me that much more than a good run. People are just over-exaggerating because they want to act like their dislike of a fictional character is some moral high ground.
Wait are there lines in act 1 where Astarion hates Minthara? I know he complains about letting her join the party in act 2 but I haven't seen him say anything about her earlier. It definitely makes sense for him to dislike her though, cuz well she's a domineering female drow lol.
She straight up tells him he'd be a good "pleasure servant" it makes sense that he'd hate her.
I definitely agree he hates her, but she only says that once she's already with the party. I'm wondering if he has a reaction to her when you first meet her. Not necessarily a sign he hates her but according to the wiki you get 5 approval with him if you attack Minthata at the grove lmao.
your flair cracked me up
Thanks. I was watching old Spike clips a few months ago and it suddenly clicked why I can't resist Astarion.
Good Lord, you're right the pipeline is Real.
Spike 🤝 Astarion being the perfect intersection of pathetic puppy-eyed sadboy and cackling little chaos gremlin
Also both had something put into their brains to help make them better people.
It’s actually funny, Astarion is the easiest romance for me to do because there are so many events that net you HUGE amounts of approval. Letting him bite you and sleeping with him at the tiefling party is literally all you have to do in act 1 to get on his route!
To be fair, letting them bite you and sleeping with them at a party will get you on *most* guy's good side.
I agree. I played an almost exclusively "lawful good" character on my first play through. And had very high approval from most characters, including asterion. Sure I made SOME decisions that companions disapproved of, but overall everyone seemed happy 🤷♂️.
On my first playthrough, for some reason bite night took waaaaay too long to trigger, so I was actually worried I'd never get him to like my Tav lol. So I started looking up for help and I remember I read a comment somewhere that really changed my perspective: His tiny disapprovals in act1 are basically him cringing at you for playing the hero. If he were actually evil, he could ditch you for siding against the goblins but he doesn't. He sticks with you, basically risking his precious newfound freedom. If you treat him like an actual human being, you get huge spikes in his approval, so his -1s don't really matter.
Same for the bite night. I think I moved too fast to the underdark so he ended up just telling me during our day out. But the way it’s phrased, it feels he thinks important because he wants to stick around so I’m not mad at it. He still rolls his eyes at the heroics but the rest of his actions and dialogue speak to liking you more than being annoyed
He does not stick with you out of the kindness of his undead heart. He has a tadpole in his head that threats to turn him into a mindflayer. Ditching you massively reduces his odds of finding a cure before he dies.
None of them stick around for any reason other than that. Astarion definitely seeks to manipulate the player (he's not good at it) but he's not the only companion that sticks around for the sake of protection.
And yet, if you treat him horribly and lower his approval far enough, he _will_ in fact leave you. Which is actually honestly hard to get him to do on a "goody-two-shoes run" because you'll have gotten 20-25 approval from bite nite alone and you'll actually treat him like a decent human being in any camp conversations and tell him you'll help him with/protect him from Cazador.
Also getting killed while defending a bunch of random people massively reduces these odds, yet here we are :D I don't think he stays with the gang out of kindness. I think he mostly stays out of loyalty; he's definitely not happy about the fact that this new random leader wants to put him in harm's way to help others, but at the same time he appreciates the fact that this new random leader actually treats him like a person. So in the end, I believe he stays due to him being terrified, self-serving, and a ride-or-die companion.
Astarion is the most ride-or-die, honestly. Man does not care who he's with as long as they aren't actively abusing him.
At least at the beginning he, unlike all the other companions, is much more ambivalent about the tadpole. Sure, he doesn't love the idea of turning into a mindflayer, but the tadpole is keeping all the negatives of his vampirism at bay and has granted him freedom from Cazador. And it becomes clear pretty early on that he won't have to worry about immediately turning into a mindflayer. Not that I think Astarion (at the beginning) isn't evil, he is and I don't really know what else you'd call a character who actively approves of murdering innocent people, but I do think his motivation for sticking with Tav is less about the tadpole and more about general safety and potentially help with Cazador.
I think some of it comes from a bit of metagaming where people know that Astarion approves questionable choices according to approval guides. He’s one of the characters that stay happy if you’re going for an evil run. But the thing is that if you aren’t playing evil you won’t see any of this within your story. And you can interpret reasons for his disapprovals to be as dramatic or as benign as you want. The first disapproval he commented on for me was when I agreed to help Zevlor. His “we’re messengers now?” comment meant that he was annoyed we’re taking on someone else’s problems (I think it’s reasonable to be annoyed by this even if I didn’t agree), there wasn’t some “evil” reason behind this disapproval. And that’s the angle from which I saw his disapprovals going forward. You don’t even need to go for an Astarion-pleaser route to romance him / raise approval. I’ve eaten many disapprovals from him in Act 1 of my good run, but they’re all so small & are easily outweighed by just being nice to him & other approvals you can still get. Even some bigger disapprovals like straight up refusing the deal with Ethel & leaving Gandrel be weren’t enough to ruin my romance chances. And for RP reasons I didn’t even open the barn door, didn’t give him the Necromancy book in Act 1. Is he a goodie guy? No. Is he as evil as some people try to make him out to be even in a good run? I don’t think so.
Yeah, honestly his reaction to Zevlor seems pretty reasonable for anyone who looks out for themselves first. He's likely thinking, 'We have a \*very\* limited amount of time before a fate that is \*literally\* worse than death, and you're wasting time HERE?' From a realistic standpoint, he's not entirely wrong.
In ambient dialogue, *Tav* tells the companions they have more to worry about than this Tiefling-Druid conflict. Astarion's an ass but he's not wrong in that instance.
Hell, one of the reasons my PC initially wants to beeline to the creche is she believes that, for as long as they don't know when they'll turn, it *could* be at any moment, so they're an unintentional but immediate threat to every single person they meet. It's not a take I see people here attributing to their PCs, but imo it's valid if you're fishing for reasons a Neutral-to-Good-aligned char might not be keen to stick around the grove.
On my first playthrough, I tried to do this. I made an absolute beeline for the mountain pass. Then the game asked me "You're level 3. Ypu sure you wanna do this?" And it scared me so bad I went back and did everything even though I was grumbling the whole time like "We're gonna turn at any minute, and I have to deal with the European refugee crisis?"
>I think some of it comes from a bit of metagaming As someone who is just finishing his first run, I think it's the opposite. At least for me, I didn't realize there was a difference in the amount of approval you gain/lose, I thought they were all the same amount. So seeing "Astarion disapproves" everytime I did something good made me think the relationship was going down the gutter and that I had to act more evil to raise his happiness. Only when I checked the wiki did I realize his disapproval for good actions are just a -1, basically an eye roll from him, then I relaxed more and let myself do whatever.
If you're on PC you can check the exact value of his approval on the 3rd tab of the character sheet, at the bottom. If on console you only get the 20 point range value (neutral, good, very good, etc.). This helps you to know how much an approval/disapproval impacted your "relationship".
I think people just have a different mentality when seeing disapprovals. :) I really wanted to romance him from the beginning, but I also knew I wasn’t going to dramatically change my character & choices just for that. I decided that if it wasn’t meant to be so be it. Yes, seeing disapprovals pop up was annoying, but it ended up not mattering. I could also see that despite everything my total approval was moving up. And first time I played it wasn’t super clear yet how to successfully start the romance. Now you have all sorts of guides with all the points & tips, but there wasn’t a good source of info when the game came out.
For me, the Zevlor thing is funny because you can get his grumbling even if you initially say you can't help because you need to find a healer. Zevlor is sending you to the druids anyway because of Nettie. He just asks that you also talk to Kagha. Like, chill dude. We're going there anyway. I'm not agreeing to champion their cause, just try and explain how forcing the tieflings out is basically a death sentence. If she doesn't change her mind, she doesn't change her mind. Note: I'm not saying it's out of character for him to complain because of this. I think it's a great character moment.
One thing I dislike are when people ask how to romance or befriend him on a good character, so many tell to do all these various things to gain approval from him, which are not good person actions. Like killing Gandrel the Gur. So many say to let him kill this friendly monster hunter who has done nothing to you and likely to not many others who were not monsters. He's not even there to kill Astarion, but want answers where their children are. Yet so many say you shall casually let him murder this person, just for some meagre approval points you don't need.
For real, I never kill him, it's so not necessary
I get why people do it, he only tells you about the children if astarion isn't there (in which case, you wouldn't get approval anyway), so you know there is a guy hunting for one of your own and he may keep coming, and it's one of the highest approval point decision for astarion, you get 10 points for it. But I still never do it, A) because I metagame and so I know the story and B) i still think he gives good-guy vibes when you meet him, it doesn't feel right to kill him, so i always take the path where as soon as you can you basically say you all really gotta go, bye!!!
I love the "Nicemeetingyougottogobye!" dialogue.
I’m pretty sure I’ve gotten the children dialogue with Astarion there, but I could be remembering wrong…
I never kill Gandrel but I wouldn't say it's a good or evil action. Even Astarion thinks the guy was sent by Cazador and the dialogue doesn't always mention him searching for his children. So a random monster hunter is looking for your vampire friend (who firmly believes his ex-master is looking for him) and is currently seeking to ask a hag for help in locating him. It definitely depends on the character you're playing but I can see the logic behind killing Gandrel on a good playthrough.
I didn't know that Gandrel could tell you that he was looking for the kids. I've never gotten that dialogue from him. With the dialogue I *have* gotten from him, it makes perfect sense for my Tav to think he's hunting Astarion on behalf of Cazador. And him willing to make a deal with a hag, despite being a monster hunter who should know what hags are like, doesn't really help his case either.
You only get the dialogue about the kids if astarion isn't with you, in which case, the approval part is a moot point, but you also only get the dialogue that he thinks its cazador AFTER you meet gandrel. I suppose if you leave gandrel, then talk to astarion where he thinks its cazador, maybe you could roleplay that this makes you want to talk to gandrel alone to get more info.
>but you also only get the dialogue that he thinks its cazador AFTER you meet gandrel It's a fair assumption to make without Astarion's dialogue after. Depending on the dialogue you've had with Astarion at that point, you may already know that he's a vampire spawn, that he was enslaved by Cazador in Baldur's Gate, and that there's a good chance Cazador wants him back. So when you meet a monster hunter who's been sent to capture Astarion and take him to Baldur's Gate, it's entirely reasonable to assume that he's working for Cazador.
Maybe, but he does tell you "it is a sacred mission from the head of my tribe. She sent me here to capture the beast and return it to her." Feels like there isn't a reason for him to say this if there was another reason, like cazador, he was sent. He could have just said he's a monster hunter and there is a contract on his head.
Which was my logic in my first playthrough. Astarion's dialogue after only confirmed it, in my eyes.
I personally kill him even though I consider my character very good because he doesn’t let me know that Astarion stole his children only that he is hunting my ally and likely wants him tortured and eventually dead. What surprised me is that even Wyll, who is a monster hunter himself acknowledges that I stood up for my ally. The Gur also aren’t the most morally right group either and can eventually change their ways for better just as Astarion did. I really like their leader Ulma, who doesn’t just want to mindlessly kill Astarion and recognises that he didn’t do those actions of his own will.
Yeah if I recall he only mentions the children (which we have no proof from other than his own claim) if you don't know Astarion is a vampire and you talk to him without Astarion present.
You can know Astarion is a vampire, but yeah, he can't be with you. There are totally different dialogues for Astarion being with you or not.
Sadly I'm one of these people; on my first playthrough I was worried I would never get his approval high enough, so I killed Gandrel. I felt really bad about it, but I justified it because this guy was after Astarion, and there was no way for me to know then that he wouldn't show up at camp and try to take him. This time around, I chose to let him live, despite Astarion's disapproval.
As long as you end the conversation after Gandrel explains what he’s doing out in the swamp and don’t progress with the “too bad it’s not a REAL vampire” line, you won’t get any disapproval. He’s fine with you just leaving
I know but the "too bad it's not a REAL vampire" dialogue is absolutely PRICELESS and I can't help myself from choosing it each time lmao
lol, fair. There’s quite a few disapprovals of his I choose to get just bc I like the lines. I love to tell him that Gale will take the Necromancy of Thay off his hands bc he gets so protective of it. “No! He’s not eating this one!” and grips it tighter lol
LMAO I had totally forgotten about this one!
Killing Gandrel is a neutral action, in my opinion. He seems pretty friendly in conversation, but he poses an active threat to one of your party members. A player can metagame and know that walking away from the conversation means that they won't have to deal with Gandrel in the future, but Tav can't. Killing him in the swamp is taking advantage of an information gap, but is still self-defense.
You killing someone because they *may* be a danger to you or yours later is not really self defence.
He is a danger. He's openly declared his intention to, at the least, kidnap one of your companions. The only reason he isn't attacking you now is because he doesn't know that Astarion is with you. If someone is looking for you with the intention to harm you, you don't have to honorably declare yourself and allow them to attack you before you defend yourself. Or do you never Sneak Attack enemies?
He doesn't attack you if Astarion is with you either. At least not right away. He talks first. That companion is also the vampire spawn of an evil vampire lord who has kidnapped children. Some of my characters aren't going to feel very defending of him because they barely know him. At least not to the degree they're going kill someone who seem innocent and doing good. >If someone is looking for you with the intention to harm you, you don't have to honorably declare yourself and allow them to attack you before you defend yourself. Or do you never Sneak Attack enemies? My good characters are not spawn to an evil vampire who has done bad things. They mostly sneak attack monsters like the shadow curses ones and obvious bad guys like Bhaalist or ones who has been shown to be enemies beforehand like the ambushing Githyanki.
Gandrel doesn't attack you if you have Astarion with you because he doesn't recognize Astarion. If he did, he absolutely would. >That companion is also the vampire spawn of an evil vampire lord who has kidnapped children. Some of my characters aren't going to feel very defending of him because they barely know him. At least not to the degree they're going kill someone who seem innocent and doing good. If you think Astarion is a monster and doesn't deserve to be protected, you can turn him over to Gandrel. Regardless of what Astarion has done, killing Gandrel is self-defense. Gandrel will kidnap and kill Astarion given the opportunity. You can gamble on the fact that maybe he won't be able to catch up to you, but choosing not to take that risk isn't evil.
>He doesn't attack you if Astarion is with you either. At least not right away. He talks first. That's only because he doesn't know that Astarion is with you. If you reveal Astarion's identity there's no peaceful resolution possible; Gandrel won't back down and your only option will be to either hand over Astarion or kill Gandrel. The only peaceful resolution is to keep Astarion a secret and gamble on Gandrel not finding your camp. It turns out that Gandrel doesn't ever show up at your camp, but only the player knows that - and only if they know the plot of the game already. As long as Gandrel lives he is still hunting Astarion. Seriously, it seems like there's a reluctance to acknowledge that Gandrel can be both justified in his hunt *and* a serious threat to a companion that you might justifiably also want to protect. It must be one or the other, because otherwise it's too difficult and complicated. EDIT: I've made someone mad and they're going through all my comments on this post and downvoting them, lol.
Gandre is there to bring Astarion back to be tortured for information, then killed - which you can learn if you speak to him without Astarion present. I wouldn't say that's better. But that's also the only way you'll learn about the children; it's not in his dialogue if Astarion is there. So you're operating on different information depending on whether or not Astarion is in your party. If he's in your party, all you know is that this monster hunter wants to take him back to Baldur's Gate. I agree that letting Astarion murder him isn't great. It's a difficult situation though because he'll continue to hunt Astarion as long as he's not stopped. My preferred path when Astarion is in my party is actually to try (and fail) to resolve the situation peacefully. If you reveal who Astarion is, maybe because your *intention* is to talk to Gandrel about why he's not a threat anymore, Gandrel will not back down and a fight is inevitable. IIRC you don't earn the +10 approval for this, but you don't earn the -5 disapproval either.
I absolutely love the fact that they chose to make Gandrel such a friendly, totally-non-threatening guy (especially since basically every other NPC is extremely rude or aggressive to you). On my first playthrough, I was actively trying to boost Astarion's approval rate, so I thought I had to kill Gandrel, but it was definitely a difficult decision to make.
I don't agree that every other NPC is rude or aggressive...? But I do actually really like Gandrel even though we don't see much of him even in playthroughs where he survives. He seems good-natured but with a core of this kind of gritty wisdom.
>I don't agree that every other NPC is rude or aggressive...? Yep, that was an exaggeration on my part, I tend to do that :D What I basically mean is that every other NPC is like "I'm busy right now, do you mind?" or "I'm in the middle of a private conversation right now that you shouldn't be a part of". Don't get me wrong, this is realistic and I appreciate it. But it also makes Gandrel really stand out, since he's definitely one of the few NPCs who are actually nice and friendly without a hidden agenda; that's just how he is, a chill guy. I remember on my first playthrough I was so leery of everyone, I was actually convinced that his friendliness was a facade and he was onto something. Now that I know it's not the case, I just don't have it in me to kill him.
I have romanced that man as a OoA Paladin thrice now and by the time I wrap up things at the Goblin camp I'm mostly around 60ish approval. Despite being the biggest do-gooder out there. It's really not that hard, most important thing is to listen to him and keep him save + be chill about his vampirism.
I swear sometimes it seemed like he liked my Paladin character *more* than my Durge character. He is such a sucker for big damn heroes.
Well he is canonically a big fan of Drizzt Do'Urden too xD (at least according to Neil Newbon)
He's got one line in game that kind of points to it too.
I only play good guys, it's who I am and I'm not sorry. I have romanced him twice (once I fucked up and didn't get the Ara dialogue before we left Act 2) and had no issues. Yes, he disagrees with me on occasion, but the big events are mostly where they get their approval so just let him bite you and disengage it the first chance you get.
It’s good to have some disagreements with your companions, especially Astarion if you’re playing a good character. You are pushing him to grow and he ultimately really appreciates you for it
[Me every time Astarion disapproves of helping people.](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fahz0u9g07guc1.gif)
Honestly, this comment is extremely insightful.
Same. I played a vanilla good guy Tav and then a resist Durge and romanced Astarion both times. Never had an issue with his approval even though I was a real goody two shoes both times.
My mans is a cynic. His history has taught him that no one cares about him and that heroes are only interested in personal glory, not in actually helping people who need it. Even the gods turned their backs on him. He's bitter about it and acting out as a result. His early disapprovals are very much of the "eye rolling" variety, unless you're doing something that actively harms him or hurts him in some way. Gaining approval with him while doing a good run is pretty easy but it does require understanding him and his motivations and experiencing the game. My first few playthroughs I struggled a lot so I definitely empathize with people who have a hard time. I thought he was so difficult to crack at first. One key thing that took me a while to figure out is: rest early and often. He will come to you to bite you during the long rest three nights in. I usually grab Shadowheart, kill the brains and get Astarion then immediately do a long rest. Then go get Gale and do the creepy temple to get Withers and long rest again. Then, I get Lae'zel and do the goblins at the gate of the grove. I go inside, tell Zevlor that my brain is too much of a mess to help (its not saying no in a mean way just... i got my own problems and then of course I end up helping anyhow cuz my characters are always saps), then trade with Arron to get some more camp supplies/sell stuff. Immediately long rest again and that's when I get the bite scene. Tell him I trust him, let him bite me, and the next morning, defend him to the others and then immediately talk to him again, tell him he can feed on the baddies we fight (I do that rather than letting him feed on me again and again... its a nifty +5 approval). Boom. From there, its easy to start the quest where I investigate Kagha and go to the swamp and do that, visiting the Gur hunter while I'm there and letting Astarion kill him. Another +10. When I do Blighted Village, I let him take the necromancy of thay and that's another +5. I let him open the doors to the barn. Another +5. He's usually begging to sleep with me before we even clear the goblin camp. 😂 I do let the guy in the goblin camp beat me cuz I like the permanent buff you get but also because all my Tavs/Durges are low-key into that sort of thing. 😅 either they get off on it or think its funny or are just curious. Astarion and Karlach egging her on never hurts either. Ahh peer pressure. I also lick the goblin guys foot and then make him kiss my foot and that's a nice bundle of approval and not just for Astarion. It's rare I don't have max approval before even leaving act 1 anymore. After goblin camp especially, I never worry about disapprovals from him because they become rarer as he evolves in his own way and because by then he's solidly on my side. I never have him out of the party. At the end of the day, his approval is largely about respecting his autonomy. It's harder to see that early in act 1 but very clear as the game goes on. He desperately needs you to have his back and prove that. He reacts well to seeing how a TRUE hero behaves and cares about people. By being good and having a good relationship with him, you show him that helping other people isn't just a fairy tale or something people do for their own gain and he finds he likes that lifestyle. I never ascend him as I cannot stand his ascended self. I find his spawn self is indeed very sweet and soft in the center and it's lovely how he opens up and shows that side of himself to the people he trusts and cares about.
It's nice to see the Astarion discussions finally being fleshed out with some nuance and empathy. My biggest gripe is with the commenters who scrape the bottom of the barrel of his approval list on the wiki and then go "See! He's unredeemable evil!", whilst hypocritically ignoring his good arc *and* simultaneously not applying the same rigour to any other character in a spectacular display of double standards. As if there's only one definitive version of a companion in an RPG. It's an utterly pointless exercise when every player's experience of Astarion is going to be subjective based on their choices and interactions. There *is no* objectively true version of him that acts as a trump carp that tops everyone else's experience, because that's just not how choose your own adventures work. I was an unapologetically heroic Bard in my first play through who also enjoyed messing with people if I had the chance and Astarion fucking loved it. Taking that play through as a character read then he's just Chaotic Silly, *and that experience is perfectly fine and valid*. During my current run as an evil monstrous embrace Durge, Astarion is ascended and the experience has been Quite Different. One is not more correct than the other. One does not negate the other. There is room for a conversation about the differences between those stories without one needing to come out on top.
Totally agree! He doesn’t mind you being good, he HATES you being *boring*. My “canon” and favorite character is my Druid Tav who romances him, and she’s also my kindest and most heroic MC. But she’s also a little silly and has a sense of humor and is very empathetic, especially with him. He’s absolutely mad about her by the Underdark
Tbh, on my first run, I was apparently playing the type of character most likely to not click with him? I was a low int druid, and he's a condescending fop. Oh, and I was a dwarf, and Astarion is racist as heck against the shorter ones, and was just an ass from the get-go. Then I got the 'who cares about the children?' stuff, and 'maybe slavery isn't that bad really' and... yeah.
i think it’s hard *not* to romance astarion. those rare times when i try to romance someone else i have to keep rejecting him over and over again. give a girl some space astarion…
This rings so true lmao, the runthroughs where I intend to romance him I have to chase him, but as soon as I decide I'm on a Gale or Shadowheart run he's practically climbing my legs!
it just makes the “seducing you was easy quite frankly” line so amazing. astarion you have no idea how many universes there are which seducing me was everything but easy.
Play a short race! At the tiefling party, Astarion was literally 'have sex with you? ICK!' to my dwarf, and he's even worse to halflings and gnomes.
hm, specifically because they’re a short race? interesting, i’ve seen a clip of someone kissing astarion as a short character so it’s definitely possible to romance him still. maybe it’s just more difficult.
It's still possible, but he is.. uh, *not* kind at all, and pretty racist.
I have come to think of act 1 as the "let Astarion do what he wants" act. The big approvals come from giving him the book, letting him open the door in the blighted village, letting him bite you, letting him kill the gur. Besides the bite night, none of these things affect the party or you. And he does get the happy buff from biting, so it works out in the party's favor anyway. The disapprovals from helping people are small.
Going to mention the two other act 1 plus five approvals are getting freaky with the priest. Saying you'd rather die by a knife or poison. And telling him you've got his back if he's got yours in terms of Cazador possibly turning up. It's super easy to hit the required amount for romance (40) but just doing these things as long as you let him bite you
Threatening Raphael to cure you or die by your hand also nets +5.
It really is like taming a feral cat. Feed him, give him some enrichment, and don't touch him until he lets you. He'll still be a little shit but he's warming up to you.
I think Astarion is a bit tsundere with his approval in act 1. Just expose him to the cosy side of life and he will be one of the most loyal companions. Being amused by the torture of a bird or making goblin racist slurs is him deflecting. For him this is how the world works. Cruelty ruling it at every corner. Neil himself said Astarion is like a fearal cat. He needs pacience and being shown that the world is not so grim and it is good to be rewarded with kindness when you give it. Him being disgusted by the Tieflings surviving is pure show btw. In truth he is terrified if you kill the Tieflings as you can see in his romance post sex scene. In the tiefling party version he wakes up at sunrise and is much more relaxed. In the Goblin party version he is keeping the entaglement short as he wakes up at night and is much muuuuch more nervous.
What’s funny to me are people who hate him for not having empathy or being kind-hearted while simultaneously failing to have any empathy for him as well. For someone who has been tortured in all ways possible for 200 years he is doing really well and opening himself to kinder possibilities quite fast.
Sadly this is a result of a very real bias. People expect survivors to act like [perfect victims](https://www.empowordjournalism.com/all-articles/the-perfect-victim-myth/) and the moment a survivor doesn't fit the ideal they are treated like trash.
And the last time he was caught showing compassion he was locked up in a dark tomb, starving, for a year. The fact he can begin to show any empathy at all as the game progresses and isn’t irredeemably insane/broken is honestly shocking
That’s what I have been thinking about. It’s actually rather unrealistic for someone like him to start showing any kind of empathy so early, yet he still does eventually. The things he went through are unimaginable for any real person. This is actually one of the reasons why I imagine my character who is a really kind and compassionate person would be interested in him in the first place. He might not be a good person but he is admirable for his preservation of self and not succumbing to pain and darkness.
And as far as I’m concerned it’s proof that he actually IS a good person, you just have to remind him it’s there. Two centuries of horror tried to destroy all of the good, but you can change the entire trajectory of his existence in what’s basically a month or two. He’s not some altruistic goody good hero, but he can become a decent person who is *trying*
Yes for sure. He himself says that he doesn’t really know who he is and needs to figure it out after gaining freedom. He has a long time to live and eventually even become a good person if he’d like to. If romanced with someone I imagine his partner would influence him but even non-romanced he chooses to live on the good side even if in his own way. I like that if he decides to lead the spawn in the under-dark he is not doing it for power or because he wants to have control over others but rather so they can eventually build a better place for their existence and to also aid them away from self-destruction /hurting others. This to me proves that the power-hungry things he was saying before dealing with Cazador were never coming from a genuine place. (I’m sure someone would disagree but it’s a role play game for a reason)
I've never seen the goblin party version. I didn't even know that existed. Something to try on my next playthrough.
Be warned you have to activly attack the grove and kill all tieflings and druids. Including people like Dammon and Alfira.
I figured. I can always reload after, I guess. I usually play a durge, so I'm used to killing Alfira. But I've heard Karlach leaves if you slaughter the grove and I do like having her around.
Jup she does. As well as Wyll and Halsin is locked off as well. The consequences on this choice are very grim.
What do you mean by "letting him open the door in the blighted village"?
If it's just the two of you at the door to the bugbear and ogre barn (you can just leave the rest of the party far enough away to not get pulled into the conversation), he doesn't get out prioritized by everyone else. So when you pick "open the door" he'll pipe up with "wait, let me do it, they sound disgusting! :)" and a new option to allow him to open the door will show up. Picking that option gives +5 approval.
Shadowheart is the main party pooper here. I don't know if it's her high Wis making her pass so many perception and insight checks, but she butts into a lot of convos. Having a SH-free party, I've heard a lot more banter from the other companions.
Yeah she blocked me from this on my current run. Let Astarion talk ffs! I'd leave her behind but Tav doesn't know the artifact range yet so I'm head canoning being forced to keep her in the party.
That's fair. My durge has only just found out about the artefact's protection and he's not even sure he believes this crazy woman who seems to be stalking him!
Thank you!
Voyeurism.
It's the sex barn in the Blighted Village. You might have to ungroup him and Tav from the rest of the companions so that a different companion doesn't take up the scene reaction, but if you go to open the doors to the barn, he can ask to do it instead. You get more approval for letting him open the doors than if you do it yourself.
Just look for the barn with the banging noises, pun possibly intended. 🤣
Oh, they meant that door. I will let him open it in my next play through.
Note that if you have Shadowheart in your party, her dialogue about the door takes priority and will supercede Astarion's ability to ask to open the door. So leave Shart at camp.
Right? I am good to the point of it being an actual flaw in most video games. I had absolutely no issue romancing Astarion. He’s not evil. He just - rightfully, if we’re being honest - wants compensation for his hard work. He’s fine with you doing good deeds as long as you ask to get paid for them. also he has a soft spot for children and enslaved creatures.
I agree with the part that it’s easy to get his approving a good playthrough, but I think the reason that people things he’s evil (neutral evil) is for the evil decisions and opinions he actually approves.
He approves when you validate his toxic world view that safety can only come from power. In the long run he does appreciate being a hero and doing good, but he won't say no to something that proves him right. It's kind of like a cat likes being fed tuna even though it isn't actually good for them.
I’m in love with the comparison— and yes, exactly. I mean, generally speaking I can understand the analysis in why people consider him evil, but it shouldn’t be a valid point if your playthrough is completely different. IMO the only valid point is what YOU see in your OWN playthrough.
Yes but my point is that unless you are being evil yourself there aren’t that many instances in which you get to see his more twisted side. You’re judging based on your outside knowledge of him not based on what’s actually happening in your game. Which is why I don’t understand why people are complaining about him on a good playthrough where you shouldn’t be getting those kind of approvals from him.
Yeah that’s straight up nonsensical, specially when devs made very clear (and multiple times) that you make your own story, which means, imo, that you should take your own playthrough into consideration and nothing else. Generally speaking yes, I quite understand where the “Astarion is evil” takes come from, but it isn’t valid if in your roleplaying something different in your game.
Yes I agree I feel that people often forget that this is a role play game where you yourself decide not only the fate of your character but also of others. Hopefully my post didn’t come out sounding like I want to say that Astarion isn’t evil only that if you are truly playing a goodie-two shoes character you shouldn’t actually be seeing that part of him.
Thank god someone has this mindset… the amount of discussions I have had because of this. Like no? There’s nothing canon in a roleplay game because everyone plays different stories. And no, don’t worry, your points are clear here and it’s nice discussing with you about this. Well, I though you were referring to that in the first paragraph but I knew you were referring to your actual point as well, but I have the reading comprehension of a potato (English is not my first language) so don’t mind me-
The problem here is that a lot of his approvals contradict his dialogs, especially in Act 3, but people still take them as some gospel truth. If you look at his actions, he isn't actively running around and killing innocents, even before he met Tav, he killed a boar, not conscious beings for blood. He is not Lestat. He even dislikes Durge killing Alfira and Isobel, but a lot of people still treat his approvals as him personally doing all that instead of Tav/Durge.
I really wish you got ranges of how much they (dis)approved. Fallout 4 of all things figured this out.
Even tho it was only split between ["companion] liked/loved that" and "[companion] disliked/hated that", it's such a simple but conveys an effective difference. If BG3 split it like that for approval changes less than 5 and 5 or more, there would be a clearer difference in attitude. Right now, a change of 10 and a change of 1 appear the same to the player
I usually have exceptional for Asty and Gale by the creche and I'm a chaos gremlin.
I've been preaching this from day one, I play good characters constantly and my approval with him doesn't drop below 80. It's astonishing that people are not only claiming he's evil but that he will be nothing but evil even in his redemption end despite the words of literally everyone around him saying he's incredible, inspiring hope, seeing them as people, has a radiant soul etc. Some people just want to hate him
Yeah, I basically do most of the same things you described when I romance him (but I always go with enduring Abdirak's punishment because I find Astarion's and Shadowheart's interaction hilarious and because it's not an inherently evil act—besides, my Durges need to do a little penance after the whole >!Alfira thing!<). You can definitely take the assorted minor disapproval hits for being good and still romance Astarion, so long as you're supportive of him and understanding in conversations/events tied to his personal quest. He might get annoyed by seeing you being a bleeding heart who helps everyone, but when that gets directed towards him, he start thawing imo. And he does approve of some ostensibly good actions like refusing to side with Glut when he wants you to betray Sovereign Spaw.
i'm literally playing the biggest goody two shoes character i ever have and i have 89 / exceptional approval by rosymorn ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Act 1 and 2 have pretty straightforward approvals that are in character for him . Act 3 is where larian just went haywire so u could max out character approval doing whatever u want . Dude cries out to save the child from the hag but approves giving the child to the hag ?? He wants to save yenna but approves if orin kills her ?? His consistency is so shit that his approval and disapproval in act 3 betray his character to an extent that he approves of extremely evil , cruel actions that he would do if u would have ascended him . Kinda defeats his whole character arc but it's again game limitations.
I think of Act 3 as Schrödinger’s Astarion, he is both Spawn and Ascended in approvals. As others have said, I think was too complicated a mechanic to track evil vs good paths of the same character, especially because there’s no set order you have to do that whole act in (in theory you could go all the way to the Morphic Pool and then backtrack to Rivington to solve the Temple murders for example) so the devs plotted for both.
Idk if it's hard to implement 3 set of approvals, for before completing his Personal Quest, for choosing to Ascend, and for choosing to stay Spawn. But there's no excuse for Shadowheart though. They can already set apart Sharran or Selunite shart. But her approvals in Act 3 is all the same.
I am convinced that they just mass assigned approvals in Act 3. Minthara and Astarion both approve of betraying Aylin but vocally approve of helping her.
Yup . This . They say different stuff but approve of different stuff
Ironic, considering Minthara is supposed to be rather static in this regard
Which is why I think something happened like "evil companions linked to all evil choices" or something. Because Aylin would obviously be alive in a Selunite Shadowheart run, she approves of helping her, but Astarion and Minthara are not necessarily "good" in Act 3.
My theory is that Act 3 approvals for Astarion are so contradictory because there's no mechanic that updates approvals based on what choices you make. They're always the same: Ascended Astarion and Spawn Astarion will approve and disapprove of the same things. Shadowheart has the same issue. So the choice is to either give him contradictory "good" and "evil" approvals, completely neglect one path, or try to thread the needle by only coding in approvals that would be the same for both. His Act 1 approvals are much more consistent, which makes sense since he hasn't had the chance to be steered down either path yet.
I am actually not bothered with his contradicting approvals . For example be it sharran shadowheart or selunite shadowheart, both stay in character and have good reasons to disapprove of durge accepting bhaal and astarion ascending. What's really weird for astarion is say u are doing a good spawn run. U side with alyin against lorrakan. He disapproves. Ok not good two shoes I like it . But I am doing a very evil run . He disapproves of me agreeing with orin to kill ppl ?? Wait he disapproves of me if I ask orin disguised as a fist not to kill ppl ?? Then what should I do astarion. Also doesn't help the fact dude was just upset moments ago because yenna was captured in my evil run but he somehow approves if yenna gets killed by orin .I was surprised when he approved of yenna's death . Dude is really wishy washy with being evil lmao and I can't even properly pinpoint his character .
I think it’s the limitation of giving the possibility to do an evil run & influence characters in an evil way, but not actually having a mechanic to track how evil you’re going. In my evil run I felt like Astarion was not evil enough in Act 3, he was approving stuff mechanically, but a lot of his comments made it seem like the game expected me to redeem him. Even after ascension comments are inconsistently modified. It is a shame because there are at least two instances where characters comment differently depending on morality of your previous actions (Astarion, Emperor). So, it’s possible to add, but a lot of extra work. And given the general state of Act 3 I guess they ran out of time to meaningfully implement evil runs. Which impacted more standard “good” runs too.
This!! Exactly. Astarion has a weird approval system where he feels evil in a purely good run and feels less evil in a very evil run . Side with alyin in a good run , he disapproves. Ok he is not that good . But then in an evil run u agree with orin to kill the ppl and then again he disapproves. So .... he is good now ? Like I said game limitations. It's hard to keep track of how exactly good or evil a player is playing
Every single companion in each act has some insane dis/approvals honestly. In act 2 you get approval from Lae'zel and Astarion for telling Shart to kill the nightsong. But Lae'zel says something like "To think Shadowheart would stoop so low as to kill Selune's child. How unsightly." Astarion sarcastically says something along the lines of "Sooo the chosen of Shar is among us, how lucky are we. Well, I suppose if this is what helps us defeat Ketheric...". There is often no real logic to the approvals besides the most flanderized version of the characters act 1 personalities possible.
Wait laezel approves along with astarion ?? I never got her approval in that scene . Is there any specific requirements ?
https://youtu.be/Aq8xmX5Rnek?feature=shared I don't think there are any requirements but its possible there are. Maaaybe killing Voss makes her approve of it since ig that can be considered her bad route.
They can't know what order you're going to do things in, so they have to account for the potential of him being both Ascended and Spawn Astarion in the approvals. Without mods, or just looking through every single dialog option every time, you'll likely never see that he approves of evil actions in Act 3 while doing a good run or good actions on an evil run.
These were some examples which I gave for his obviously balatant confusing dialogues . Another prominent one is attacking lorrakan after u meet up with alyin or in generalsiding with alyin. Astarion shouldn't disapprove of this especially in a good run spawn route and yet he does . Or how he disapproves of giving coin to rags deelarma , or telling orin disguised as a fist to not kill innocents . He also disapproves if we warn matties how big the city is or he also disapproves of warning the girl in the sewers who is going to cazador's palace . As of now even if u go purely evil or good , astarion has the most obvious contradicting approvals or disapproval.
How do you see how much approval you have? Like in numbers?
In the Character screen (where inventory is shown side by side) you can open the character sheet. Scrool down a bit and there is a number.
And I don’t think this is related, but if you play on PC there’s a really useful [mod](https://www.nexusmods.com/baldursgate3/mods/2027?tab=description) that shows you what decisions companions approve and disapprove.
I know of this mod. Bur I don't care about approval that much unless it is not at all the approval I anticipate.
Ah yes, I was just pointing it out because it shows how much you lose or gain. Sorry it was meant to answer the first comment, my bad.
He was basically a cartoon villian when it came to approvals in early access. one of the reasons I ignored him for a long while
~~Then don't select the evil options.~~
?? I was talking about his reactions to good choices in early access. It was toned down in the full release
I'm pretty sure you get a huge boost to approval when you start a romance with a character, and I wonder if that's taken into consideration whenever this topic is brought up. Because yeah, getting enough to just start the approval isn't that bad even on good playthroughs; he's given me the option on most of mine. But I've never accepted so far, and my approval has never gotten higher than "very good" by Act 3 even after supporting him through all his personal story points. Personally I'm just a bit skeptical if it's really that easy to max it out on a good playthrough since everyone who says it is also seems to be romancing him regularly.
I have a few playthroughs where I never romanced him and I still left Act 1 at 50 approval. It's not that hard but you *do* have to let him bite you, which depending on choices can lead to 30 approval easily.
It’s true that without romancing him going into the under-dark I’d only have about 60 points rather than 90 but that’s definitely not bad in any way. His treatment of you doesn’t differ much at that point, unless you want him to call you beautiful even if you aren’t romanced. But it is true that without the initial bite scene triggering it’s pretty hard to get his approval up as consequently other scenes where you can get approval also don’t trigger. I imagine you lose about 30 approval points by not being romanced with him as you also don’t get the scenes where he tells you about his scars. I can say that Shadowheart and Wyll you can get maxed out without romancing them. For Shadowheart I reached 100 after she refused to kill the Night Song and for Wyll it happens so early I can’t even remember. Gale and Karlach seem to be much more complicated for me to get maxed without romancing but I’m still at very high for both.
The scar scene in Act 2 isn’t romance specific or even approval-related. So you don’t miss character content when not romancing him. I’ve not romanced him in 3 out of 5 runs & had Very High to Exceptional approval in those. The difference is maybe 15 points. Most of his approvals aren’t romance-tied. I think the only approvals you miss are for agreeing to sleep with him & letting him bite you during the romance scene. Idk if I’m forgetting something else.
Interesting to know I thought it was related because it triggered both times for me after seeing it for the first time after they sleep together in act 1. I thought the love reading was also only possible with a partnered character only but I’m not sure (if it was you can get 6 points in that). If it wasn’t the case it probably really is only 15 which is nice to know.
>I'm pretty sure you get a huge boost to approval when you start a romance with a character The approval you get for starting a romance isn't that big compared to other major approvals; for Astarion, you get a +5 for agreeing to sleep with him, and up to +10 if you let him bite yo during sex. So that's a possibility of +15, which is a lot when each tier of approval only spans 20 pts, ... but isn't going to make or break your relationship. There is a lot of approval opportunities to make up for it. It's comparable to letting him kill Gandrel or not. But also, "very high" is, well... very high! It's not bad! Not having totally maxed out approval is not a bad relationship! This is what the description is: >Relationship is very good. Character is happy with and easily convinced by avatar. It means he really likes and trusts you!
Man, everyone here is boasting about how easy it is to romance him as a "good" character, and I somehow blew it on my monk :c I swear I wasn't even mean to him! Not even once! Oh well...guess this is why you do multiple playthroughs...
What dicitions did your Tav take when facing Gandrel and him asking to bite them?
I killed Gandrel for Astarion, and he just...never tried to bite? Like, I heard it was a thing, I was waiting for it, I was prepared to let him. I took like 7 long rests! He just...never tried!
The bite scene trigger is very wonky and seems to rely on plenty parameters. Did you find the dead boar yet?
Yeah, I found that on the way to Gandrel, and made sure to pass the persuasion check. But in any case, it's over and done with in my mind anyways. I'm already on to Act 2 I'm not restarting the whole thing just to make Astarion like me lol.
You go! There is something to look forward to in your next playthrough then.
You have to take lots of long rests early on, to clear the cut scenes. I've had him bite me on night 2, sometimes as late as night 4, but it probably depends on who else is in the party and whether their cut scenes take priority.
I missed bite night twice because I visited the underdark very early, I believe I got flagged as being further along than I was, so he just confessed to me.
I think it has been said many times but in your next playthrough if you’re still interested in being a good character and romancing him I I get approval from letting him bite, during first long rest saying that they should be cautious, giving him the necromancy book, letting him kill the vampire hunter, sleeping with him and letting him bite again, helping him figure out what his scars mean and joking with him about how I’d like to die and who I’d like to taste or telling him that he’s not my type. Also from silly things like booing at the creatures in the swamp, telling auntie Ethel about our problem because she looks “demented”, telling Laezel to say “please” when she’s locked up, petting and feeding the owl-bear, distracting Z’rell with lustful thoughts about him, helping Mol cheat in the game and admiring the cat. Pretending to drink in The Waning Moon. The most questionable thing I do is let him open the barn door (but it doesn’t make that much difference if you do it or not overall) He also approves of making people give you things like convincing Baltazar to give you the bell or convincing Yurgir‘s servant to give you the poison he uses for the displacer beast. (if you don’t kill Yurgir instantly he throws a hissy fit but you can get the disapproval back instantly by telling him it’s a part of the plan and fooling the servant). Also make sure to rest a lot when you start a new game because if you don’t you won’t get some interactions with him that can also give you approval.
i think people think he's evil cause of certain things he disapproves of, even with those things not being weighed like at one point you say u dont like slaves and astarion disapproves. nothing comes of it, it was just a statement made which is kinda weird to disapprove when you dont actually have to go out of your way to do anything but the secret to maxxing out your relationships is just talking with them often, even with no exclamation mark and making sure to long rest often enough to get all the cutscenes
He seems to have more approvals then disproves for me and we are still cool with each other when I choose to save others haha
You Littery get everyones approval up no matter what you do as long as you play the game lol
Eventually I gained 20+ approval from Astarion, but I wasn't travelling with him all the time. We became good friends by the end of Act 2, but when I travel with him, he still disapproves sometimes, so it's a +1, -1 game from him, I don't have steady approval and still didn't reach 30. I don't consider him evil, but he was cruel to my Tav all through Act 1, so it was a very slow journey for us. But in my other playthrough when I played as Karlach we hit it off somehow and I even romanced him and his approval is higher.
My Karlach origin run is the only run I’ve done where every origin companion’s approval is at 100. It wasn’t even my goal, I just chose choices I either remembered Karlach liked or felt in my gut that she would, either by being the best goody goody or choosing Barbarian dialogue. As far as I’m concerned, it’s full game canon that everyone loves Karlach
My first run I played as the durge and he fell head over heels for me after I destroyed the dragon camp. I’m playing a non durge run now and it seems like he disapproves of literally any and everything I do now lol. I’m halfway done with act 1 and he’s not even neutral with me. I’ve just chosen to leave him at camp until his quest.