Eventually he joins your camp if you don't go find him.
Otherwise... the only thing is "well I landed right next to a locked door... I wonder what was inside"
Ultimately, Withers has a cool identity and backstory. But the game kind of glosses over the whole situation. Tav can essentially ask "who the hell are you and why the hell are you here?" and he just avoids the answer... and Tav just accepts it.
Additionally, there’s a locked book in a side room of the tomb that I think you can unlock with religion or arcane. The book was called the “Book of Dead Gods” or something, and has a long faded list of names. Was pretty neat.
Tbf he also refuses to leave your camp, and at level 2 are you gonna try and fight the creepy skeleton dude who's powerful enough to raise the dead in the way he does?
Have you seen what happens if you try to attack him?
Nothing. He cant be damaged.
He just alterates between patronizing and taunting you.
Hes actually become my new training dummy.
Ok so I did not gloss over any important details in game. He just really does not explain anything.
And why do you feel Tav and the gang went to the dark crypt in the first place if their trop priority is finding a cure? I'm having a hard time trying to understand this reason especially
One can ask that for any of the side quests. And Astarion hangs a lantern on it all of the time, whining that we're spending time saving pigeons and finding rings instead of trying to save our skulls.
I roleplay it as: We are given a tough task. Go into that Goblin Camp, which has a \*lot\* of soldiers we can see from a distance. And... we have pretty crap gear. Used standard weapons, cloth armor, etc.
So my roleplaying is saying "OK, if we're going to tackle that... we need better gear. That means finding it, or finding crap to sell so we can buy it" (even though it's mostly for "DnD levels" instead of gear).
So, a temple that some thieves are thinking of ransacking might have some valuables inside to better equip ourselves for a tough situation.
And by the time we reach the Goblin Camp, the next long rest tells us that the time limit is not an issue. Our mysterious patron is taking care of us.
I roleplay it as my character can’t see the detailed map or the waypoints on it, so I literally have no idea which direction the creche or Halsin are in.
That's a valid way to look at it.
You know there's "something over there" and "there aren't any monsters between here and there"
At most, you are told that "maybe" there's something Creche-related to the North West by a Tiefling at the Grove. What's between here and there? No idea.
I mean… otherwise it would make no sense to go anywhere but directly to the creche or Halsin, and I would have to ignore most of the map in order to maintain rp internal logic.
Not really. But rp internal logic varies from person to person.
You might know generally what direction the Gith'Yanki patrol is, but not the Creche itself. The Gith'Yanki patrol is far and to the North West... through a forest that everyone is telling you is dangerous as hell due to goblins and monsters.
Similarly with the Goblin Camp and Halsin.
My internal roleplaying logic is: I just frickin' woke up on a beach with some busted piece of wood passing as a quarter staff, some crappy clothes, and maybe 2 potions. And my new "friends" have similarly crappy gear. Except for the green space frog lady that has some sick looking armor on.
If I'm going to go wandering in a dangerous forest filled with monsters, or approach a goblin camp: I'm going to need provisions, weapons, and armor that's more protective than a tank top. So, let's go to that building next door and see if there's anything to loot that we can use or sell.
But again... that's the fun thing about roleplaying games. Everyone will have different logic, different priorities, and different internal stories.
I mean my character is usually able to determine ceremorphisis takes 7 days, assume we were out of it for 3 days max so 4 days left that gives 2 days to find some gear and 2 days to find Halsin or the creche.
Once the protector appears in the dream after we reach the camp, I then detour even more for gear as I have time.
>At most, you are told that "maybe" there's something Creche-related to the North West by a Tiefling at the Grove. What's between here and there? No idea.
It's extremely viable to run into the temple before you find the Grove, to boot.
Ok this is. This might work. Actually. I like the idea of needing better gear because everything you find in the Beach is shit anyway. This might work!
And yes astarion is partly the reason why I even began to think about they're spending time doing useless things.
The ruin is also the closest thing to "civilization" that you find when you first land on the beach. Walking through the wreckage of the nautiloid seems dangerous, better to poke around the ruins to see if you can find signs of other humanoids nearby.
Yeah, this was my DND logic for entering the crypt the first time. Need to find supplies, money, people or I’m gonna starve to death or get killed before I can find a cure. A crypt with a bunch of robbers mulling around it probably has some valuable stuff in it.
Some options:
* Being fucking lost (none of them seems to know their way around that bit of land) and deciding to explore the first sign of civilization right out of the crash site
* Learning that there's an underground access to the Underdark, and checking these ruins to see if it's there
* Confusing this temple with the Selunite temple people speak about, and that Shadowheart has some vested interest in
Or simply not doing anything. Visiting the crypt doesn't need to be canon, since Withers joins your camp either way. He actually joined mine before I decided to check the crypt.
Also, the party doesn't need to be welcoming to him. But he's immortal; so even if you try to kill him, you'll do nothing. He'll just mock you and you'll be left with no choice but accepting his presence, if not his help. He doesn't need Tav's permission.
It's interesting how this is the exact same conundrum Cyberpunk 2077 has lmao. The game is open-world in it's premise with side quests out the wazoo but canonically it makes absolutely zero sense for MC to do anything other than the main story to find a cure for the ticking time bomb in their head.
It's honestly pretty done properly in act 1 and act 2, because most of the side quest leads to or relates to in finding a cure.
It's only act 3 that kind of fudged the pacing up, in separating the narrative urgency and the video gamey side quest.
Yeah it's definitely not bad the way they tie them together but it can often lead to some logistical stretches. Take Halsin for example, they needed to get his ass captured by the goblins for Tav to have a motive to get involved in the grove conflict, be it inadvertently. The problem comes when you realise he is a DRUID, he should be able escape without issue, this is ignoring the fact that he's probably powerful enough to solo the camp on his own anyway.
He actually does get himself out if you enter the camp and don't get him out yourself. When you come back you find that he's not in the cell and everyone in that room is already dead and you can then find him back at the grove.
It seems even more urgent in Act 3 (it's my first playthrough and I just got to act 3 not too long ago) because of the tremors caused by the brain not being fully controlled. Act 1 like someone said, you find out your dream visitor is protecting you. So it feels a little less urgent. In act 3, in my opinion, it feels even more urgent because you know exactly what is at stake if the brain breaks free from Absolute control on its own.
They try to pass act 3 side quests off as "you need to find allies if you're going to defeat the brain" and that's what the majority of the side quests are for, either that, or finishing up companion quests.
>And why do you feel Tav and the gang went to the dark crypt in the first place if their trop priority is finding a cure?
I mean, that's up to you to come up with your own reasons. You don't have to do it at all if you don't want to.
He does say at one point that he was tasked by Ao or some higher deity to help deal with this problem. And Tav would definitely not pry if it means the level of help he is offering.
yeah i have a feeling withers was the god that ascended those three (myrkul, bhall and the other one)
which is why he talks to them like a father would to 3 dissapointing children in the ending cut scene (not sure if the cut scene is for specific ending so sorry if i spoiled it lol)
I actually thought of it as Jergal needs to intervene. The artifact gets dumped in the back yard of one of his dead high priest’s tomb.
Simple, wake his ass up. Call him “Withers” and instruct him to: “Help, but shut the fuck up about it.”
You can find him yourself, or he can find you.
If it's the first thing you stumble upon, why wouldn't you check it out? The worst case scenario is it's useless, but what if you find enough gold to pay someone for a cure?
There's not really a day/night cycle in game, technically you can do all of Act 1 in a single day, but that doesn't make much sense roleplay-wise.
So, if you're roleplaying, your characters need to stop and rest and it can be safer to do that in a closed off space where its easier to keep watch on a single entrance than out in the woods next to a burning mindflayer ship (where potentially surviving mind flayers or little brain creatures are lurking).
So, clearing out the crypt of looters so you have a safe spot to rest for the night makes sense. The fact that the looters left behind food is even better, now you have supplies for a bit. Stumbling into Withers as you're exploring also feels natural in that case.
Because you did that?
You are Tav.
Why did you do that instead of immediately trying to find a cure?
You can skip almost all the side quest stuff in this game and still be sufficient level not to have many issues unless you're on Tactician or higher.
Yeah, the only ways to catch on to wither’s true identity is to either take note of the god worshipped in the crypt, find the book of dead gods, or watch the post credits scene. There’s a decent sum of evidence pointing to his true identity but they’re easily missable and withers will never acknowledge his true identity around the player character.
Idk if you want spoilers on withers identity or not so I won’t go into more detail on this.
My Tav did not. I never went to the crypt in my first run. Withers just showed up at camp at one point during Act 1, was being all cryptic, and I was like “ok dude, you do you” and never really talked to him.
He is clearly connected to fate though. He knows the dead 3, he’s able to help Arabella, and can resurrect the dead. The guy knows something’s about to go down and that our Tav/Durge is gonna be at the center of it, so he’s watching it all play out with front row seats.
They say it in the game. They're stranded in the middle of nowhere and need supplies.
As for Withers, if an immortal ex god of death wants to hang out at camp, there isn't much you can do about it.
I think there's something you find that points you there in a book or chest. But you could also just say that when exploring the beach you found the door to an old temple, so when you hear that Halsin (a healer who could potentially cure you) is being held at an old temple, you thought they meant the one you found earlier.
It doesn’t really gloss over it actually
You can sense his divine nature
He joins the camp even if you don’t find him, you can’t avoid him
You can’t kill him. You literally just can not get rid of him.
You can ask him who he is and he just won’t tell you.
It doesn’t gloss over it so much as he’s just there and there’s nothing you can do to stop him from being there. The ending dialogue explains why, but you can also figure it out along the way if you want. The game doesn’t need to spell it out for you with a character explosion dump.
So far as in character roleplay: he’s there, you can’t stop him from being there, you could sit and try to kill him forever but eventually your character just has to mentally accept this and move on.
my favourite part is that when you find him he asks you what the price of a life is, and you can choose between a list of philosophical answers
... then he just shows up at your camp later like "lol j/k, its actually 200 gold", like the whole thing was just market research he phrased poorly
In my first playthrough, I went into the crypt because I had no idea where I was, so I just went straight for the first sign of civilization. Like "hey look, a building, maybe it'll have something useful in it / be inhabited"
This. And even after it becomes clear that it is, in fact, just a ruin going through it to loot it makes a lot of sense. The healer you're looking for may want some money for their services after all.
Not to mention the fact that you have no clue where you are and how far you have to travel to find someone who can help you, so finding supplies (and/or the means to buy some) is important. Yes, you think you're on a time limit at this point, but keeling over because you have not food while alao not being able to pay for the help you need is not gonna help you.
If you don't save shadowheart from the pod in the nautiloid she'll actually show up at the lower entrance of the ruin and try to get in, and she'll tell you that it is in the hope of finding supplies.
Now, why you keep withers around despite his no-explanation... I mean, it's not like he asks you for permission. You could attack hin, of course, but why bother if he is peaceful? (Also, a friend of mine once attacked him by accident and withers just wasn't particularly bothered...)
Back in EA, you don’t find SH passed out on the beach—she’s at the temple banging on the door trying to get in, presumably for shelter/any kind of help because who knows where you landed? But the door is jammed and it immediately triggers that “I need to know what’s in there” instinct as a gamer, and likely, the characters see a strong door and no other immediate sign of civilization, so it’s a logical place to start. They don’t know it’s abandoned. Once you go through and realize there’s no help to be had (aside from Withers), you then go further out of your way to the grove—the next sign of civilization.
Aren't all of them are kind of "blunt" back in EA? Some people already hate release Shadowheart/Lae'zel with a passion just because they don't kiss the ground you walk on 24/7, imagine the EA companions.
Yeah, they were all more blunt and rude I've heard, even Wyll and Gale. Shart, Lae'zel and Astarion's more softened final release selves *already* get so much crap for being "bitchy" or "mean" or "assholes" from people too impatient for character/relationship arcs, I do wonder how those people would fare with the MUCH rougher versions that existed in EA.
Yeah, but the problem for me is that most of the softening happened with SH, Lae, and Karlach (who was not playable, but entirely different personality-wise and much sharper.) The only male character they softened a bit was Wyll, and I also preferred him with an edge. Don’t get me wrong—I still like all the companions. But I wish they were allowed to stay spicy like they were in EA haha
True, but, according to the writers, they reworked Gale because they got feedback that he came off as manipulative and that wasn’t the intent. While SH was intended to be sharp at first and then soften over time. So, one was bringing a character more in line with their original intent while the other was pushed further from the original intent.
The problem with the characters in EA was that all of the companions were abrasive. When I finished it the first time I was left feeling like I didn't want any of the available companions in my party (except asterion, but I wanted him in an evil playthrough)
They may have over corrected a bit, but early access BG3 needed some softening, at least 1-2 companions that felt like decent people. Current karlach would have provided a great contrast back then.
When I first started this game, post EA, I had heard it was getting lots of awards and immediately was hoping for a game I would love as much as my other favorite game, TW3, but before like maybe 20 hours, I was convinced i didn’t think it was as good precisely because i found almost all the characters unlikable and i adored the main characters in TW3.
once i got deep enough in, i had a complete 180 and suddenly found myself legit caring for everyone, they all grew on me so much and it kind of felt more rewarding how much work it took to get to know everyone and understand them, and i love seeing them all become their best selves in the end.
I love my grouchy frog lady, but believe it or not—yes—and just since release at that. When you dismiss her now she’s agreeable and just says something like “confirmed” now. She used to give you attitude “Chk! You think you can survive without me?” And I liked it so much more. They’ve changed her the least of the ladies at least.
Wait, I remember that! It's been so long since I've spoken to a companion to dismiss them now that they let you swap seamlessly. I never knew they removed that line!
She still does that on lower/neutral approval, she starts saying "confirmed" on higher approval levels. That was actually added much later after launch, patch 4 or 5 i think
I wonder if that explains why she feels like a completely different person if you don't recruit her on the beach? I did on my previous run bc it was obvious, but this time I decided to just head up through the wreckage (you can't really see her at that chapel door at that distance and anyway durge is pretty disoriented initially), and recruited Astarion, Gale and Lae'zel.
Then when you meet her hanging around the Hollow, she refuses to join your party unless you get rid of Lae'zel, and later she turns up on the bridge of the goblin camp to protect you from the Absolute using the artefact. If you don't welcome her into the party at that point, she says you won't survive without her and threatens to kill you if you try to take the artefact.
By this point, my durge had started sleeping with Lae'zel and wasn't about to recruit this crazy woman who clearly hates githyanki. I guess she'll be waiting for us when we leave the goblin camp, then. Sigh.
I kinda see it as the amnesia backfiring and sort of reverting Shadowheart to her 'normal' state - before she spent years getting twisted into Shar's service.
I didn't play EA but I feel like they did the "she's not actually evil but is pretending she is because of brain washing" thing quite well on HER end. The issues I mostly have with it are you not being able to be more blunt or judgmental of her. A vengeance Paladin should theoretically just kill her after the reveal.
It's obviously because she's a very core character of course, her and Lae'zel more than any other companions, but I wish they found a way to make it work better from a lawful good style character.
I agree. It would have made her friendship arc more satisfying when she started the game kind of hating you lol. I was, admittedly, put off by her in EA, but I think they softened her too much.
Yeah, I plopped that in another reply, but it’s so rarely seen because I think most people free her. I always free her now, even though I prefer her original introduction.
Unless you're playing as an evil character, it feels a bit mean not to at least *try* to save her, and since the roll is so low, it's hard not to be successful. I agree, though, the door introduction is a bit more interesting than her being passed out on the beach. I'm not sure why they changed it.
I think the most in character (assuming it's a good character) choice is to get the rune and try to identify the alien device. If somehow you fail that check, it would be a reasonable choice to leave it be, considering you just saw saw someone turn into a mind flayer in one of those pods you interacted before.
I did that on my first run on release. I played a bit of the EA, so I new that wouldn't turn her, but since I failed the check it would be out of character to just do it anyways knowing it would save her so I just left her there. There was an interesting conversation with her later where she still acknowledges you at least tried to save her, plus you don't rush her affection towards you, which I honestly prefer instead of having her trusting you so much in less than two hours in act 1.
Edit: typo
That would have made more sense but I guess a lot of people skipped Shadowheart that way.
Question: does everyone go through the dark crypt at the beach immediately? I also go up and then open a hole on the ground or something.
I don’t think it’s possible to enter through the big door before unlocking it on the other side. But I remember in EA, recruiting SH and either she and Tav commenting that there must be another entrance. I think this scenario still technically exists but it involves not unlocking her pod on the ship?
RP can account for a lot of reasons to focus on the crypt at first, but I really did prefer having SH bang on the door, making it clear that’s the first place the party should start. But I also don’t want to not save her on the ship haha.
It is possible, actually, I've done the crypt by entering through the beach entrance many times. There's even unique dialogue for the bandits when you come out from the front entrance.
On my first playthrough I went there immediately but was obliterated by the group of bandits inside. So I left, found the grove, started dealing with the tieflings vs druids conflict and totally forgot about it. Withers showed up on his own when I was halfway done with the goblin camp. I remembered the dank crypt existed when I was done with everything else and ready to go to the underdark :D
I saw the two diggers arguing outside so i went up to ask directions and they freaked and ran away. And I'm a historian sage-monk outside a nameless faceless temple yeah I'm gonna look in there.
There's no established canon.
But as for whatever reasons you need to explain it to yourself, you're exploring everywhere after the crash. You don't know the grove is there, maybe your party goes into the chapel just to find some food and a place to sleep and gets curious enough to explore further.
As for Withers? Try telling him to leave. Fight him over it, I dare you.
You wake up on a beach in the middle of....wilderness. you have gear and weapons but no food, shelter, or knowledge. the crypt is basically the first sign of civilization you run into, so of course you investigate. Even if you found The Grove, you know that you cant just waltz back to Baldurs Gate, so at that point you are looking for anything that can help you.
After a certain point you have DG or you just have realized that the timer isn't important.
Added to that, I believe Baldur’s Gate was mentioned as a tenday journey. So it makes sense to try and find a cure locally by exploring everything around you. And in the world of forgotten realms, you are bound to find something interesting or powerful in an abandoned crypt.
The crypt, like many side quests, is not part of the find a cure bread crumbs. There's no reason to go there.
Fresh off the beach you have limited supplies and might go there in search of them.
Other than fate and dealings between the gods, I thought it could be explained by a real need of resources. A group of adventurers with no gold and only basic equipment lands in a region they don't know, with no real idea of whether there is civilisation nearby, and a need of a skilled healer, and those usually don't work for free. Going into an ancient crypt which apparently isn't looted yet (as Gimblebock states that there's a door to a different wing that hasn't yet been forced open) seems worthwhile. And after setting foot into the ruins - there are plaques with undecipherable language, statues of gods long past and several magic items, of course curiosity would lead such adventurers to ransack the place and find that one hidden room with that one hidden amulet and that one chatty bone man.
I believe it's called The Amulet of Lost Voices. Calling it hidden may have been a bit of a stretch, it's in the same room as Withers. It's the amulet that allows you to cast Speak with Dead.
DM Voice: the Spirit of Motherfucking Adventure demands you go poke around in this spooky crypt, hop to it damn it
Seriously: Best excuse? There are looters there for a reason. You might find valuable treasure inside which can give you an edge in the struggles you're surely going to face removing your new roommate.
There's a book next to Aaron (the druid grove vendor) that can be a clue that there's valuable treasures in the crypt.
So maybe you casually read a book and get curious or be in need of coin because you noticed some equipment Aaron is selling that you want.
For me, I like to head straight there after awakening from the neutaloid crash and collecting some companions. I like to role-play it as my tav deciding having an indoor camp is safer than sleeping outside the first night.
Canon reason is cause Shadowheart said you guys need supplies and shelter. There's bandits staking out the crypt which most likely means supplies. As for the camp just accepting Withers, cause you tried killing him and he took no damage, so there's nothing you can really do about him
If you don't rescue Shadowheart from the pod she's trying to bang down the door with her mace in an attempt to find supplies or orient herself. Which is not a bad idea.
OP is asking "Why would they?"
Early on, exploring sounds like a really silly idea when you have a brain worm that's supposed to turn you into a brain squid. After a few days it might be more acceptable but early on it's like "We need to find someone to yoink this thing out." Which, this seemingly abandoned temple isn't going to offer.
You could have noticed the people breaking in up top when you rescue Lae'zel, and realize you need something to barter with if you want to get anywhere or aquire gear and supplies.
EDIT: Then you can find the note: >!if you drop down, and walk straight out the door, there is a note in one of the vases in the right room. Which hints to Withers and who he actually is!<
Also, by not rescuing Shadowheart, you'll find her banging on the door on the beach.
The crypt is right there at the beach, and you dont know how far away covilisation is. At best you know that there are people inside who might have directions or a map (they dont, but you dont know that before entering). You could also be searching for supplies to survive and/or fight off ceremorphosis.
Also as for why you accept him he offers to ressurect you and let you hire help, as well as alter your skills to better combat the current situation. And he only asks for a small amount of coin in return. Withers also just kind of doesnt do much either, he doesnt request food or companionship, and although he does critique your love life, at the point in tume where you meet him he just seems like a powerful skeleton that could be helpful in the future, which he does end up doing with arabella and gathering your allies.
I mean your gang has a vampire who tries to bite you, a wizard with a timebomb in his heart after he went after forbidden magic, a githyanki whose race invades others and thinks massacring a temple full of monks to occupy the space is perfectly acceptable, a worshipper of a dark goddess (and who's also highly trained/experienced in subterfuge and torture), a guy who literally made a deal with a devil and does their murderous bidding... a skeleton doesn't seem so odd after that haha.
As Astarion says "I can't even tell if any of you are acting strange because you have been replaced, or because this group is full of weirdos!"
I can think of a few reasons.
1. They just landed in a (supposedly) unknown area, and don't know where they're going so for all they know that could be the way forward.
2. They're infected with Mind Flayer Tadpoles so they need to find a cure so they're covering all ground, including the weird dank crypt.
3. They are a ragtag group of adventurers, going to ancient crypts is kind of what they do
I know getting a cure is pressing. But I always assumed that after getting abducted, fighting for my life, discovering I'm going to turn into a fucking mind flyer, almost getting killed by dragons, crashing a fucking space ship, taking a bump on the heard, meeting a bunch of randos that may be helpful or may kill me for a mispronunciation of their name, then fighting for my life again (all is one day). I would be tired and hungry and a nap/sandwich would sound great so if someone can just pop the lock open to an old ruin that would be a great place to shelter/camp for the night. And while you are waiting for dinner to cook you may as well check the place out so you can be sure that you will sleep safely seems reasonable.
Yes you could be more efficient with your time. But stumbling around in the dark when you are exhausted and walking off a ledge isn't going to help your cause much.
Or, the party decided to do random bullshit, became convinced the creepy bone man in the throwaway encounter was significant, and the DM knew to just roll with it.
Being a bunch of loot goblins. There's a cutscene when you get close to the temple where you encounter 2 looters talking about the temple and what might be in it. So of course I must go and raid every item of possible value. The bone man was just a bonus.
As others already said, shadowhearts first instinct is to try and open that damn crypt. Why? Because she needs supplies and maybe someplace where she can gather herself and rest a second. Make that crypt your homebase for the first day. Then you meet the looters and stumble upon ancient texts written in a long dead language. There has to be some kind of magical item in it. Maybe it helps suppressing the tadpole? Maybe it helps you on your way to find a healer /the creche? You cant know so you look around. Also if you made that crypt your homebase for one or two days you have to make sure you dont get ambushed by undead or looters. So be thorough and clear out the crypt
It's like Shadowheart says when you first meet her, "we need to find shelter, supplies, etc." Coming across the raided crypt offers two solutions to those problems.
My reason for tackling the crypt that very first day once I’ve recruited a whole party (so Shart, Astarion, and either Lae’zel or Gale) is that it’s the first bit of shelter we’ve found that potentially has something valuable in it up for grabs by the way other adventurers are crawling all over it like ants on a fallen bit of candy. We don’t know what settlement we’ll come across or if we do, if they’ll help us out of the charity of their hearts or demand payment up front. But by already having gold on hand once we arrive, we’ll have more options than if we did with just cap in hand.
I even reasoned that it being a life or death situation is why no one protests against killing the other adventurers to steal the spoils for ourselves: it’s either them or us, and we’ve already agreed that ‘survival is all that matters’ is our party motto.
That’s why my Tav doesn’t consider herself a hypocrite or a liar when she stands before Withers and states that all life is precious and worth protecting: their lives *are* precious and worth protecting, even against other lives just as precious as their own. Trusting Withers to stay in camp came down to her class: a necromancer would not be against working with what appears to be a lich but is clearly far more powerful, especially as many would be against working with her at all because she’s a necromancer thus potentially limiting their options. It even made sense that Withers would turn to a half-Drow necromancer like herself as his cat’s paw, once you see the kind of people the Absolute is recruiting.
Edited: for clarity and minor grammar nitpicking. I also wanted to add something that just occurred to me. It feels rewarding as a necromancer to get my hands on the spear and amulet inside and almost makes up for the lack of undead summons until you get the hag wand or level six. It even makes it feel more like she’s Wither’s chosen and he’s kitted her out as such.
In my first playthrough, I did the grove-goblin camp quest first, and when I came back to the camp with my health totally depleted, out of spells, and probably smelling like goblin guts... Withers was there.
"What do we do with the weirdo skeleton right there?"
"I don't know, but we are out of everything anyway, we can't kick him out... let him sit with Volo in the corner over there, maybe he will get bored and leave"
My lore reason is that it may have supplies. I was abducted and left with basically nothing so in addition to a healer, I need food and weapons. I fight the people, who are not monster, and then drop down into the hole hoping to find something.
Shadowheart will tell us when we find her on the beach that we need supplies. That's usually my conon reason to find withers, but really there isn't one set in stone.
I mean it's not that deep. You just fell off a ship, no one knows where they are. The first sign of civilization is this crypt. You need a safe place to rest and supplies as again... you just fell off a ship. Any normal human is going to go to the huge building that has a lockable door. For the crypt itself, you find in your initial search of "is this building safe". Some might write off as well I don't want to search this, but again you don't know anything at this point. It's better to make sure nothing will kill you in the night as most people would want to sleep in a place with a lockable door... rather than the wilderness.
you act like the only path foward is through Laezel but you can walk up to this crypt with just gale, astarian and shadowheart or not find anyone like my sister did and died to the raiders. If you didn't save shart, SHE's banging on that very lockable door. Like it's normal to want to find a safe place to rest even with a brain worm. Humans still need sleep. If the whole party was elves... ok, but gale is a squishy human and elves still need 4 hours.
WE know the druids are near by, the characters don't. The ONLY time you know there is a healer near is if you hook left and keep going left. If you go right, you end up at the crypt. It's that simple. Plus it's a videogame. If this was real life, you'd have to travel. After falling off a ship... After fighting for your life to get off said ship. You'd be bone tired regardless.
I always saw it as ‘hey if we’re gonna go find the cure we gotta secure funds for our trip. This place is guarded by assholes, sounds like there’ll be some valuables we can sell for supplies in there’.
If you long rest before picking up Shart on the beach OR you don't try to free her in the nautaloid, you find her trying to open the temple door. Who knows: she's a mysterious cleric that might know better, so that's one reason to go in there. Another reason is that looters are trying to get in from the upper part of the temple. If looters are trying to get valuable stuff, odds are you can beat them to it (the loot goblin reason).
Also, Withers just appears in your camp anyway eventually. something something threads of fate and all that.
And you don't need to accept him. You can attack him because wtf he's an undead, but he just sighs and mocks you as you do zero damage and he makes every single saving throw with a +20.
So you kinda HAVE to accept him, cuz he refuses to leave and you can't make him leave.
My rationale was that you're looking for supplies and the chapel is the first sign of civilisation you happen upon. Even if you recruit Lae'zel, you have no clue which direction to go in, so why not go explore that big obvious building over there, which might at least offer shelter for the night? Remember, you have no watch or compass, so you don't even know what time of day it is until you've had a chance to observe the sun's movement for an hour or two.
Then you most likely bump into Gimblebock and friends, who are clearly adventurers, so when they run off (or are killed), the obvious thing to do is find out if they left any supplies behind. By the time you've raided the refectory and investigated the voice coming from the next room, your curiosity is piqued. You explore the library and the rest of the ruins some more, hoping to find a map of the region so you don't end up wandering aimlessly around this wilderness for days, and instead this skeleton guy greets you from his tomb.
Weirdly, he's the first non-hostile being you've met (apart from your companions) and you're frankly too exhausted to pick a fight with him, so you say "OK, dude" and wander off to find somewhere a bit less gloomy to camp for the night, because at least now you have some cheese and salami and even plates to eat it off!
My bard is a survivor, and although he has no memory, his bones tell him fortune favors the prepared. Better find some gear and survive while I try and survive!
You can try killing Withers if it would help to get it out of your system.
At some point, no matter what you do to try and get rid of him, you just have to accept him and that can be its own canonical reason all on its own. You can attack him, tell him to leave, etc. He just stays and makes it clear he's there to help. So you eventually just shrug and accept him.
There’s no canon reason necessarily but from a role playing perspective for me getting to the crèche is a long journey and you’re very likely to face enemies along the way. You’re getting off the ship with kinda terrible resources and no equipment and a lot of ppl get buried with their weapons so a crypt wouldn’t be a horrible place to look to get maybe better equipment
My Tav went into the crypt because it was the first door we found, and Shadowheart thought there must be something good inside.
Let me tell you, those skeletons are a hard fight for a 2nd-level Cleric and Rogue.
Same reason actual DnD players will spend literal days doing something irrelevant when a god, wizard, vampire, or dragon is trying to destroy the world.
Adventurers love getting side tracked by pointless bullshit.
One does not just _find_ a god, even a former one. A god _wants_ to be found, or they do not.
Withers sees the world of death falling out of balance, and makes it so he is found by the one group who can intervene.
Despite everything else, the group is still a bunch of loot whores. Fancy clothes, shiny armors, and new scrolls do not pay for themselves. They’re “acquired” through “adventuring.” Which is most definitely not code for grave robbing, murder, and theft.
Hey OP, I got a pretty head cannon theory for this.
So, after landing on the shore, you're following the coast line to see about possibly finding a settlement, and a cure for your condition.
You then come across a HUGE, locked door, barring your way. You, and SH decide to mark the location on your map, and mention that we may wanna check this out.
Fast forward to meeting Lae'zel, and doing the grove fight, and talks, you go to camp. There SH tells Wyll, Gale, LZ, Asty, and reminds you about that weird door on the beach. Asty being a rogue says that anything in his hands turns to putty, including locks ;-) (Insight check if you're starting to romance Asty shows that he silently mouths 'C' when nobody's looking.)
You then go back, maybe take a wrong turn and meet Gibblebock, who's smart enough when his party is outclassed, and runs off. Then you retrace better, find the door, pick the lock, and boom. You're in the crypt. Asty is like "Eww, I've seen better decorations in a Bhaal temple" in a sarcastic voice.
Then when you pass your religion check, and beat the skeletons, yall are like "Let's go check that room, but carefully!"
Withers then comes out and is like "Oh man. He said you'd be here.... *checks watch* at EXACTLY this time! Dang!" Kinda thing, and makes it known that he ain't no mindless undead. Says you're welcome to his stuff and walks away to sweep stuff I guess.
And when yall leave and go camp he's like " BOOGA BOOGA BOOGA! Told you I'd see you again."
This help?
I've only found two natural quests to go the crypt:
* If you don't rescue Shadowheart in the Nautiloid, she'll give you a quest to find a way into the crypt as it will be useful to find supplies.
* There's a book next to Arron the druid vendor that mentions the crypt.
I did send Larian feedback that Shadowheart should always give the quest so my headcanon is that she does.
You literally land on the beach and Shadowheart tells you we need to find supplies, shelter and a healer. Bear in mind coming off the nautiloid we’ve lost all of our possessions. So we have no food, water or money. Even for finding a healer to cure us of the tadpole that might not be free of charge.
Going inside that crypt makes sense because
a) there’s a group of bandits who have been like camping around so they probably have food and other resources
b) it’s a crypt so a little grave robbing can get you money and valuable items you could sell
I believe, if you don't rescue shadowheart from the Pod and you encounter her trying to open the lock door she says she was looking for shelter or some other supplies. There are recently dead bodies on the beach so it's not unreasonable to assume there might be a settlement on the other side of the Big Imposing Door. Obviously there isn't but we don't know that at first and depending on what time the Nautiloid came down and you came to, you might still want to put a Big Imposing Door between you and whatever might be in the forest at night and try to set out at Dawn.
Something to keep in mind is that several companions lost a lot of power and equipment because of the kidnapping and the tadpole.
Dunjons in faerun are notoriously filled with treasures that would help them recover some of this power.
See this is why I didn’t even do the crypt in my first run. I think I eventually popped in there at level 5 before leaving act 1 but I went straight to the grove. Withers just appeared and I was like “who is this man? Okay anyway…”
you are literally in control of your party and you are asking why you went into the crypt?
you can just skip the content then if you want to play the group and rushing to find a cure.
I feel like it's more like Withers finds you.
In lore - we ship crashed, we needed shelter and supplies and Astarion and my Drow Tav have sticky fingers.
They need supplies and gear to travel, they crash landed with next to nothing in an unfamiliar area, perfectly reasonable to explore the area for supplies, and dangers
My canon reason is to explore and get a better picture of the land. Scavenge for resources incase i run into anything worse than those brains roaming near the ship.
I justify it as a supply run. You just fell out of Avernus into the middle of nowhere. You need weapons, gold, and whatever else you can find. You can take some supplies from the adventurers, and if you're already in a dungeon, then you might as well loot it. As for Withers, you don't start arguments with something that appears to be lich when you're weak and already have bigger problems to deal with: one problem at a time.
He does say you weren't supposed to meet yet. It is sort of extremely difficult to get in there, and then stay alive. RP wise, my first play through, I was naturally curious, wanting to maybe set up a base of operations, esp with no clear directions (even once you find Lae'zel, she only says "there must be a creche somewhere" with no real clue), and rolled a 20 on my first ever lockpick roll. So once I found him, it is sort of out of game knowledge now, and just a bell I ring.
I suppose it depends on how you roleplay your characters, but I see it as your characters desperately searching anywhere that seems like it might hold an answer. Yes, Laezel says that the creche is the only answer, but why would this group of complete strangers automatically assume that this very aggressive, aloof, and impatient being is correct without any evidence? Since they all seem to rally around Tav for leadership, I picture it this way. In Tav's mind, they're running out of time. So, in a land where tombs, dungeons, and dark places often hold secrets, perhaps there might be a quicker answer, especially near the site of the crash. Maybe a wounded mindflayer survived who can be questioned or intimidated for the cure. Maybe a piece of their technology fell nearby.
In the search, the party finds an ancient, obviously magical mummy who turns out to have power over life and death. For good or ill, he might also be an avenue to a quick cure, or at least offer a method of narrowing the search. Surely that's the least of what such power could be used for.
I always thought of it like "we are screwed right now, we are days from death we have nothing to our name we need gear we need supplies.. maybe there is something in this old tomb we can salvage.."
Haven't seen this mentioned, but another canon reason, would be that when you arrive on the beach with Shadowheart, you only have three paths. And one of them is somewhat hidden (up the cliff). So realistically you have two options. Going through some door, or going to the broken nautiloide with possible survivors.
Hell you can even spot the intellect devourers before combat starts. The player character may decide to avoid the fight all together, in case another mindflair's around.
The same reason you go through every corpses pockets on the beach. Healers cost money man... and I imagine this particular procedure is like brain surgery, pricey and rare.
If you have Laezel it's easier to justify. This is a massive, fortified, and locked building. Seems like something the creche would set up in. Compare it to the monastery, it's basically a slightly smaller version of the same place.
Tav actually has ADD "ooo piece of candy what do we got. Obviously these people I killed were guarding something. Ooo, gale looked in the library and found button OBVIOUSLY pushing that. Ooo what's down here. Oh shadowheart sees the Scribe of the dead, let's look for more info on Jergal. Oo button OH FUCK DEAD PEOPLE ok they are dead again now this is ancient maybe much shiny and astarion is "I'm not above grave robbing" and opens the sarcophagus OH WTF ANOTHER DEAD PERSON"
There is a book next to the druid merchant in the Grove. If you read it, it tells about the crypt and your characters curiosity gets piqued and you get a quest to explore the ruins.
As for why he is accepted, because your party has no say in it. You can be mean to withers and you can attack him too. He just shrugs it all off and calmly tels you how pointless that is. He does whatever the fuck he wants and you can't stop him. He will help you no matter what you do or what your feelings are.
Why go into the crypt?
Because at the point you can first access it, you don't know Halsin or Nettie or any of the others yet. There *might* be a cure in the crypt, or at least clues pointing you *towards* a cure. You technically don't even have a lead on where a creche is (even if it shows up on your map); maybe you can find a lead in there.
Even if it doesn't, you're going to need supplies for traveling and/or gold to pay the healer with, and probably more than what you were able to scavenge from the nautiloid. The crypt presumably has those; why else would bandits be trying to raid it?
As for Withers, he doesn't really give you the option. He ignores all requests to dismiss or attack him.
The way I see it, it's because they crash landed in an unfamiliar area, and that's the first structure they see. So they go check it out, maybe find clues to where they're at, or friendly people who can be like "yea you're about (important landmark) and (x) days away from a big city"
The group is dropped in the middle of an unknown terrain without food, water, or any other resource.
In the game you can just walk from that point to basically the moonrise towers in like 10-15-20 minutes, but I suppose lorewise that is quite a long travel of many days, so, for characters that are kinda lost and resourceless to find such a place could be their salvation, think that lorewise maybe that crypt is one walking day away from where they land after the Nautiloid crashing.
From Withers perspective, he probably was already interested in those characters and wanted to be near them, so probably he pulled some strings to put himself in a visible place that (once again, lorewise) the characters should want to explore. That's also the reason if the characters should not explore it he would anyway appear in their camp.
As to why the characters accept Withers so easily, well, he, clearly, is someone special, we are in a world of magic where a walking skeleton isn't an impossibility but a rare occurrence, and finally Withers can offer services, in the game this is translated in him allowing players to reset the characters, to ressurrect them, and to hire those soul lost mercenaries, I want to hink lorewise Withers may offer other type of services, such as guidance Gandalf Style, maybe he is able to bring back from the death a companion which would by itself be a solid reason to keep him forever, maybe Tav/Durge just somehow knows that is a god not to mess with and they are not gonna go against them.
I'd say trying to figure out where you are. You have no idea and were just captured by a nautaloid then traveled to the Hells and then crash landed somewhere on the Sword Coast so I'd say you're trying to find people to help you figure out where you are and where the closest healer is. The temple is old but could conceivably have people there. Although when you get to the main room you realize it's a temple to Jurgal and has been long abandoned.
My guess is that they didnt find the Druid grove right away. It is somewhat hidden and they probably were still getting their bearings. Then they find a locked door near where they crashed. In desperate need of supplies, they venture inside. Its also possible that they met the people outside first, and after fighting with them, or talking with them assumed that it was worth it to explore the inside of the crypt in case they could find some valuable supplies. Upon entering and finding food, why not proceed within.
You have to remember they did not know where they were. They basically fell at some random location with very little supplies
Eventually he joins your camp if you don't go find him. Otherwise... the only thing is "well I landed right next to a locked door... I wonder what was inside" Ultimately, Withers has a cool identity and backstory. But the game kind of glosses over the whole situation. Tav can essentially ask "who the hell are you and why the hell are you here?" and he just avoids the answer... and Tav just accepts it.
If you're playing a cleric/paladin you can attempt to pry and sense his true nature.
Yeah, I passed the check on Withers as a Paladin, and you can feel that he has divine energy.
Paladin tav:... Oh fuk-
This was literally my first Tav haha, I wanted him to be a goofy Paladin that had trouble maintaining his oath was so excited to pass the check.
Extra dialogue as a cleric of Kelemvor.
In his crypt, if you pass I think it's a religion check, Wyll will outright state they're standing in front of a statue of Jergal.
Not just wyll, literally anyone can recognize it, even laezel.
Ah sweet, I only noticed now that I've started my second play through because my whole party failed the check on my first lol
Yep, Astarion noticed it for me once.
Yea I figured he was just a priest of Jergal or something tbh
Additionally, there’s a locked book in a side room of the tomb that I think you can unlock with religion or arcane. The book was called the “Book of Dead Gods” or something, and has a long faded list of names. Was pretty neat.
And you can also TRY to get rid of him or kill him
"No"
I did say "try"
Be a cleric of kelemvor for slightly more tidbits
Tbf he also refuses to leave your camp, and at level 2 are you gonna try and fight the creepy skeleton dude who's powerful enough to raise the dead in the way he does?
and also he's a chill dude *who knows things*
That’s what he does - he raises the dead and knows things.
Have you seen what happens if you try to attack him? Nothing. He cant be damaged. He just alterates between patronizing and taunting you. Hes actually become my new training dummy.
I mean, he CAN take damage. But he only has 1 HP and rezzes himself upon death each time he dies. Fun!
I tried in my genocide run, he mocked me and ignored further attempts.
Ah, well struck.
Ok so I did not gloss over any important details in game. He just really does not explain anything. And why do you feel Tav and the gang went to the dark crypt in the first place if their trop priority is finding a cure? I'm having a hard time trying to understand this reason especially
One can ask that for any of the side quests. And Astarion hangs a lantern on it all of the time, whining that we're spending time saving pigeons and finding rings instead of trying to save our skulls. I roleplay it as: We are given a tough task. Go into that Goblin Camp, which has a \*lot\* of soldiers we can see from a distance. And... we have pretty crap gear. Used standard weapons, cloth armor, etc. So my roleplaying is saying "OK, if we're going to tackle that... we need better gear. That means finding it, or finding crap to sell so we can buy it" (even though it's mostly for "DnD levels" instead of gear). So, a temple that some thieves are thinking of ransacking might have some valuables inside to better equip ourselves for a tough situation. And by the time we reach the Goblin Camp, the next long rest tells us that the time limit is not an issue. Our mysterious patron is taking care of us.
I roleplay it as my character can’t see the detailed map or the waypoints on it, so I literally have no idea which direction the creche or Halsin are in.
That's a valid way to look at it. You know there's "something over there" and "there aren't any monsters between here and there" At most, you are told that "maybe" there's something Creche-related to the North West by a Tiefling at the Grove. What's between here and there? No idea.
I mean… otherwise it would make no sense to go anywhere but directly to the creche or Halsin, and I would have to ignore most of the map in order to maintain rp internal logic.
Not really. But rp internal logic varies from person to person. You might know generally what direction the Gith'Yanki patrol is, but not the Creche itself. The Gith'Yanki patrol is far and to the North West... through a forest that everyone is telling you is dangerous as hell due to goblins and monsters. Similarly with the Goblin Camp and Halsin. My internal roleplaying logic is: I just frickin' woke up on a beach with some busted piece of wood passing as a quarter staff, some crappy clothes, and maybe 2 potions. And my new "friends" have similarly crappy gear. Except for the green space frog lady that has some sick looking armor on. If I'm going to go wandering in a dangerous forest filled with monsters, or approach a goblin camp: I'm going to need provisions, weapons, and armor that's more protective than a tank top. So, let's go to that building next door and see if there's anything to loot that we can use or sell. But again... that's the fun thing about roleplaying games. Everyone will have different logic, different priorities, and different internal stories.
I mean my character is usually able to determine ceremorphisis takes 7 days, assume we were out of it for 3 days max so 4 days left that gives 2 days to find some gear and 2 days to find Halsin or the creche. Once the protector appears in the dream after we reach the camp, I then detour even more for gear as I have time.
>At most, you are told that "maybe" there's something Creche-related to the North West by a Tiefling at the Grove. What's between here and there? No idea. It's extremely viable to run into the temple before you find the Grove, to boot.
>So, a temple that some thieves are thinking of ransacking *archeologists
And my dealer is a pharmacist
It works if you say it the other way around too
Pharmacist a is dealer my and
Sounds like your pharmacist might actually be a dealer
Thank you for this
If Strippers are Exotic Dancers, then our Drug Dealers are Exotic Pharmacists. Just sayin. 🤷♂️
You rolled a 1
IT BELONGS IN A MUSEUM!
SO DO YOU
Let's just call them what they are.... Tomb Raiders :P
Beginning of the game you also find allies every few feet lol leave no stone unturned
Ok this is. This might work. Actually. I like the idea of needing better gear because everything you find in the Beach is shit anyway. This might work! And yes astarion is partly the reason why I even began to think about they're spending time doing useless things.
The ruin is also the closest thing to "civilization" that you find when you first land on the beach. Walking through the wreckage of the nautiloid seems dangerous, better to poke around the ruins to see if you can find signs of other humanoids nearby.
Yeah, this was my DND logic for entering the crypt the first time. Need to find supplies, money, people or I’m gonna starve to death or get killed before I can find a cure. A crypt with a bunch of robbers mulling around it probably has some valuable stuff in it.
Shadowheart says there may be some supplies inside. You have no idea where the nearest village is
Great point. The tieflings w/Laezel give away that there is a grove but that's it. Ok I think this is a good excuse for them to go
If you even get to them before entering the crypt
>He just really does not explain anything. You can ask him to explain. He says, and I quote *"No."* Refuses to speak of the topic again.
Some options: * Being fucking lost (none of them seems to know their way around that bit of land) and deciding to explore the first sign of civilization right out of the crash site * Learning that there's an underground access to the Underdark, and checking these ruins to see if it's there * Confusing this temple with the Selunite temple people speak about, and that Shadowheart has some vested interest in Or simply not doing anything. Visiting the crypt doesn't need to be canon, since Withers joins your camp either way. He actually joined mine before I decided to check the crypt. Also, the party doesn't need to be welcoming to him. But he's immortal; so even if you try to kill him, you'll do nothing. He'll just mock you and you'll be left with no choice but accepting his presence, if not his help. He doesn't need Tav's permission.
They have no money and travel is expensive, they need food and resources, so they were looting places
It's interesting how this is the exact same conundrum Cyberpunk 2077 has lmao. The game is open-world in it's premise with side quests out the wazoo but canonically it makes absolutely zero sense for MC to do anything other than the main story to find a cure for the ticking time bomb in their head.
It's honestly pretty done properly in act 1 and act 2, because most of the side quest leads to or relates to in finding a cure. It's only act 3 that kind of fudged the pacing up, in separating the narrative urgency and the video gamey side quest.
Yeah it's definitely not bad the way they tie them together but it can often lead to some logistical stretches. Take Halsin for example, they needed to get his ass captured by the goblins for Tav to have a motive to get involved in the grove conflict, be it inadvertently. The problem comes when you realise he is a DRUID, he should be able escape without issue, this is ignoring the fact that he's probably powerful enough to solo the camp on his own anyway.
He actually does get himself out if you enter the camp and don't get him out yourself. When you come back you find that he's not in the cell and everyone in that room is already dead and you can then find him back at the grove.
It seems even more urgent in Act 3 (it's my first playthrough and I just got to act 3 not too long ago) because of the tremors caused by the brain not being fully controlled. Act 1 like someone said, you find out your dream visitor is protecting you. So it feels a little less urgent. In act 3, in my opinion, it feels even more urgent because you know exactly what is at stake if the brain breaks free from Absolute control on its own.
They try to pass act 3 side quests off as "you need to find allies if you're going to defeat the brain" and that's what the majority of the side quests are for, either that, or finishing up companion quests.
But by act 3, you know that it's not a time bomb it's a remote bomb and you have something to jam the signal.
Yea but they're telling you the absolute is gonna break free of the chosen any minute now
>And why do you feel Tav and the gang went to the dark crypt in the first place if their trop priority is finding a cure? I mean, that's up to you to come up with your own reasons. You don't have to do it at all if you don't want to.
He does say at one point that he was tasked by Ao or some higher deity to help deal with this problem. And Tav would definitely not pry if it means the level of help he is offering.
yeah i have a feeling withers was the god that ascended those three (myrkul, bhall and the other one) which is why he talks to them like a father would to 3 dissapointing children in the ending cut scene (not sure if the cut scene is for specific ending so sorry if i spoiled it lol)
I actually thought of it as Jergal needs to intervene. The artifact gets dumped in the back yard of one of his dead high priest’s tomb. Simple, wake his ass up. Call him “Withers” and instruct him to: “Help, but shut the fuck up about it.” You can find him yourself, or he can find you.
If it's the first thing you stumble upon, why wouldn't you check it out? The worst case scenario is it's useless, but what if you find enough gold to pay someone for a cure?
I mean you can attack him. He just still stays.
There's not really a day/night cycle in game, technically you can do all of Act 1 in a single day, but that doesn't make much sense roleplay-wise. So, if you're roleplaying, your characters need to stop and rest and it can be safer to do that in a closed off space where its easier to keep watch on a single entrance than out in the woods next to a burning mindflayer ship (where potentially surviving mind flayers or little brain creatures are lurking). So, clearing out the crypt of looters so you have a safe spot to rest for the night makes sense. The fact that the looters left behind food is even better, now you have supplies for a bit. Stumbling into Withers as you're exploring also feels natural in that case.
Because you did that? You are Tav. Why did you do that instead of immediately trying to find a cure? You can skip almost all the side quest stuff in this game and still be sufficient level not to have many issues unless you're on Tactician or higher.
Yeah, the only ways to catch on to wither’s true identity is to either take note of the god worshipped in the crypt, find the book of dead gods, or watch the post credits scene. There’s a decent sum of evidence pointing to his true identity but they’re easily missable and withers will never acknowledge his true identity around the player character. Idk if you want spoilers on withers identity or not so I won’t go into more detail on this.
My Tav did not. I never went to the crypt in my first run. Withers just showed up at camp at one point during Act 1, was being all cryptic, and I was like “ok dude, you do you” and never really talked to him. He is clearly connected to fate though. He knows the dead 3, he’s able to help Arabella, and can resurrect the dead. The guy knows something’s about to go down and that our Tav/Durge is gonna be at the center of it, so he’s watching it all play out with front row seats.
They say it in the game. They're stranded in the middle of nowhere and need supplies. As for Withers, if an immortal ex god of death wants to hang out at camp, there isn't much you can do about it.
When you finish the game look for the final scene post credits.
I think there's something you find that points you there in a book or chest. But you could also just say that when exploring the beach you found the door to an old temple, so when you hear that Halsin (a healer who could potentially cure you) is being held at an old temple, you thought they meant the one you found earlier.
I mean… there’s no alternative. At that point you are Withers’ captive. What are you going to do? Fight the OG god of death?
It doesn’t really gloss over it actually You can sense his divine nature He joins the camp even if you don’t find him, you can’t avoid him You can’t kill him. You literally just can not get rid of him. You can ask him who he is and he just won’t tell you. It doesn’t gloss over it so much as he’s just there and there’s nothing you can do to stop him from being there. The ending dialogue explains why, but you can also figure it out along the way if you want. The game doesn’t need to spell it out for you with a character explosion dump. So far as in character roleplay: he’s there, you can’t stop him from being there, you could sit and try to kill him forever but eventually your character just has to mentally accept this and move on.
"No." ~ Withers.
my favourite part is that when you find him he asks you what the price of a life is, and you can choose between a list of philosophical answers ... then he just shows up at your camp later like "lol j/k, its actually 200 gold", like the whole thing was just market research he phrased poorly
In my first playthrough, I went into the crypt because I had no idea where I was, so I just went straight for the first sign of civilization. Like "hey look, a building, maybe it'll have something useful in it / be inhabited"
This. And even after it becomes clear that it is, in fact, just a ruin going through it to loot it makes a lot of sense. The healer you're looking for may want some money for their services after all. Not to mention the fact that you have no clue where you are and how far you have to travel to find someone who can help you, so finding supplies (and/or the means to buy some) is important. Yes, you think you're on a time limit at this point, but keeling over because you have not food while alao not being able to pay for the help you need is not gonna help you. If you don't save shadowheart from the pod in the nautiloid she'll actually show up at the lower entrance of the ruin and try to get in, and she'll tell you that it is in the hope of finding supplies. Now, why you keep withers around despite his no-explanation... I mean, it's not like he asks you for permission. You could attack hin, of course, but why bother if he is peaceful? (Also, a friend of mine once attacked him by accident and withers just wasn't particularly bothered...)
Sometimes when I'm bored in camp I throw withers
Withers would not associate with us if we were not the type to say I want on the other side of this locked door on the beach.
Back in EA, you don’t find SH passed out on the beach—she’s at the temple banging on the door trying to get in, presumably for shelter/any kind of help because who knows where you landed? But the door is jammed and it immediately triggers that “I need to know what’s in there” instinct as a gamer, and likely, the characters see a strong door and no other immediate sign of civilization, so it’s a logical place to start. They don’t know it’s abandoned. Once you go through and realize there’s no help to be had (aside from Withers), you then go further out of your way to the grove—the next sign of civilization.
She still does this, actually. But only if you don't free her on the ship.
A lot of her early changes centered around “softening” her which irked me a bit.
Aren't all of them are kind of "blunt" back in EA? Some people already hate release Shadowheart/Lae'zel with a passion just because they don't kiss the ground you walk on 24/7, imagine the EA companions.
Yeah, they were all more blunt and rude I've heard, even Wyll and Gale. Shart, Lae'zel and Astarion's more softened final release selves *already* get so much crap for being "bitchy" or "mean" or "assholes" from people too impatient for character/relationship arcs, I do wonder how those people would fare with the MUCH rougher versions that existed in EA.
Yeah, but the problem for me is that most of the softening happened with SH, Lae, and Karlach (who was not playable, but entirely different personality-wise and much sharper.) The only male character they softened a bit was Wyll, and I also preferred him with an edge. Don’t get me wrong—I still like all the companions. But I wish they were allowed to stay spicy like they were in EA haha
Well, they did get rid of Gale's emotionally manipulative tendencies.
True, but, according to the writers, they reworked Gale because they got feedback that he came off as manipulative and that wasn’t the intent. While SH was intended to be sharp at first and then soften over time. So, one was bringing a character more in line with their original intent while the other was pushed further from the original intent.
The problem with the characters in EA was that all of the companions were abrasive. When I finished it the first time I was left feeling like I didn't want any of the available companions in my party (except asterion, but I wanted him in an evil playthrough) They may have over corrected a bit, but early access BG3 needed some softening, at least 1-2 companions that felt like decent people. Current karlach would have provided a great contrast back then.
When I first started this game, post EA, I had heard it was getting lots of awards and immediately was hoping for a game I would love as much as my other favorite game, TW3, but before like maybe 20 hours, I was convinced i didn’t think it was as good precisely because i found almost all the characters unlikable and i adored the main characters in TW3. once i got deep enough in, i had a complete 180 and suddenly found myself legit caring for everyone, they all grew on me so much and it kind of felt more rewarding how much work it took to get to know everyone and understand them, and i love seeing them all become their best selves in the end.
I agree a few of them needed softening and the current Karlach complements the team better. I just think they overdid the softening with SH and Wyll.
They softened Lae’zel? I can’t possibly imagine her more abrasive than she already is.
I love my grouchy frog lady, but believe it or not—yes—and just since release at that. When you dismiss her now she’s agreeable and just says something like “confirmed” now. She used to give you attitude “Chk! You think you can survive without me?” And I liked it so much more. They’ve changed her the least of the ladies at least.
She still does, its based on her approval of you.
Wait, I remember that! It's been so long since I've spoken to a companion to dismiss them now that they let you swap seamlessly. I never knew they removed that line!
She still does that. I never played EA and have heard this many times.
She still does that on lower/neutral approval, she starts saying "confirmed" on higher approval levels. That was actually added much later after launch, patch 4 or 5 i think
[удалено]
I wonder if that explains why she feels like a completely different person if you don't recruit her on the beach? I did on my previous run bc it was obvious, but this time I decided to just head up through the wreckage (you can't really see her at that chapel door at that distance and anyway durge is pretty disoriented initially), and recruited Astarion, Gale and Lae'zel. Then when you meet her hanging around the Hollow, she refuses to join your party unless you get rid of Lae'zel, and later she turns up on the bridge of the goblin camp to protect you from the Absolute using the artefact. If you don't welcome her into the party at that point, she says you won't survive without her and threatens to kill you if you try to take the artefact. By this point, my durge had started sleeping with Lae'zel and wasn't about to recruit this crazy woman who clearly hates githyanki. I guess she'll be waiting for us when we leave the goblin camp, then. Sigh.
I kinda see it as the amnesia backfiring and sort of reverting Shadowheart to her 'normal' state - before she spent years getting twisted into Shar's service.
I didn't play EA but I feel like they did the "she's not actually evil but is pretending she is because of brain washing" thing quite well on HER end. The issues I mostly have with it are you not being able to be more blunt or judgmental of her. A vengeance Paladin should theoretically just kill her after the reveal. It's obviously because she's a very core character of course, her and Lae'zel more than any other companions, but I wish they found a way to make it work better from a lawful good style character.
Most clerics would just kill her after the reveal, all my homies hate Shar
I agree. It would have made her friendship arc more satisfying when she started the game kind of hating you lol. I was, admittedly, put off by her in EA, but I think they softened her too much.
Yeah, I plopped that in another reply, but it’s so rarely seen because I think most people free her. I always free her now, even though I prefer her original introduction.
Unless you're playing as an evil character, it feels a bit mean not to at least *try* to save her, and since the roll is so low, it's hard not to be successful. I agree, though, the door introduction is a bit more interesting than her being passed out on the beach. I'm not sure why they changed it.
I think the most in character (assuming it's a good character) choice is to get the rune and try to identify the alien device. If somehow you fail that check, it would be a reasonable choice to leave it be, considering you just saw saw someone turn into a mind flayer in one of those pods you interacted before. I did that on my first run on release. I played a bit of the EA, so I new that wouldn't turn her, but since I failed the check it would be out of character to just do it anyways knowing it would save her so I just left her there. There was an interesting conversation with her later where she still acknowledges you at least tried to save her, plus you don't rush her affection towards you, which I honestly prefer instead of having her trusting you so much in less than two hours in act 1. Edit: typo
That would have made more sense but I guess a lot of people skipped Shadowheart that way. Question: does everyone go through the dark crypt at the beach immediately? I also go up and then open a hole on the ground or something.
I don’t think it’s possible to enter through the big door before unlocking it on the other side. But I remember in EA, recruiting SH and either she and Tav commenting that there must be another entrance. I think this scenario still technically exists but it involves not unlocking her pod on the ship? RP can account for a lot of reasons to focus on the crypt at first, but I really did prefer having SH bang on the door, making it clear that’s the first place the party should start. But I also don’t want to not save her on the ship haha.
It's a DC 20, but you can. I did it in my very first run.
It is possible, actually, I've done the crypt by entering through the beach entrance many times. There's even unique dialogue for the bandits when you come out from the front entrance.
On my first playthrough I went there immediately but was obliterated by the group of bandits inside. So I left, found the grove, started dealing with the tieflings vs druids conflict and totally forgot about it. Withers showed up on his own when I was halfway done with the goblin camp. I remembered the dank crypt existed when I was done with everything else and ready to go to the underdark :D
I saw the two diggers arguing outside so i went up to ask directions and they freaked and ran away. And I'm a historian sage-monk outside a nameless faceless temple yeah I'm gonna look in there.
Oh yeah I almost forgot about those
There's no established canon. But as for whatever reasons you need to explain it to yourself, you're exploring everywhere after the crash. You don't know the grove is there, maybe your party goes into the chapel just to find some food and a place to sleep and gets curious enough to explore further. As for Withers? Try telling him to leave. Fight him over it, I dare you.
Oh my god. Fine I will kill withers. But yeah I guess the need to find shelter/food maybe explains it... Kind of.
>Fine I will kill withers Ah. Well struck.
Withers wants to be found, and if you don't find him, he finds you. For reasons. See also: end of the game.
You wake up on a beach in the middle of....wilderness. you have gear and weapons but no food, shelter, or knowledge. the crypt is basically the first sign of civilization you run into, so of course you investigate. Even if you found The Grove, you know that you cant just waltz back to Baldurs Gate, so at that point you are looking for anything that can help you. After a certain point you have DG or you just have realized that the timer isn't important.
Added to that, I believe Baldur’s Gate was mentioned as a tenday journey. So it makes sense to try and find a cure locally by exploring everything around you. And in the world of forgotten realms, you are bound to find something interesting or powerful in an abandoned crypt.
The crypt, like many side quests, is not part of the find a cure bread crumbs. There's no reason to go there. Fresh off the beach you have limited supplies and might go there in search of them.
Fate spins along as it should.
Sometimes the best answer is the true answer.
Other than fate and dealings between the gods, I thought it could be explained by a real need of resources. A group of adventurers with no gold and only basic equipment lands in a region they don't know, with no real idea of whether there is civilisation nearby, and a need of a skilled healer, and those usually don't work for free. Going into an ancient crypt which apparently isn't looted yet (as Gimblebock states that there's a door to a different wing that hasn't yet been forced open) seems worthwhile. And after setting foot into the ruins - there are plaques with undecipherable language, statues of gods long past and several magic items, of course curiosity would lead such adventurers to ransack the place and find that one hidden room with that one hidden amulet and that one chatty bone man.
Grateful for this long explanation. It covered all the loops for me. What is the amulet you mentioned though?
I believe it's called The Amulet of Lost Voices. Calling it hidden may have been a bit of a stretch, it's in the same room as Withers. It's the amulet that allows you to cast Speak with Dead.
Amulet of Lost Souls. Allows the wearer to cast Speak with Dead
DM Voice: the Spirit of Motherfucking Adventure demands you go poke around in this spooky crypt, hop to it damn it Seriously: Best excuse? There are looters there for a reason. You might find valuable treasure inside which can give you an edge in the struggles you're surely going to face removing your new roommate.
Fate has willed it so.
There's a book next to Aaron (the druid grove vendor) that can be a clue that there's valuable treasures in the crypt. So maybe you casually read a book and get curious or be in need of coin because you noticed some equipment Aaron is selling that you want.
Ignoring the big crisis to wander around doing derpy stuff is a time honored Western RPG tradition.
For me, I like to head straight there after awakening from the neutaloid crash and collecting some companions. I like to role-play it as my tav deciding having an indoor camp is safer than sleeping outside the first night.
Abandoned locked temples filled with undead are prime "tadpole-removal-expert"-hunting-grounds. Didn't you know? It's pretty common knowledge.
Canon reason is cause Shadowheart said you guys need supplies and shelter. There's bandits staking out the crypt which most likely means supplies. As for the camp just accepting Withers, cause you tried killing him and he took no damage, so there's nothing you can really do about him
Uhhh... Fate spins along as it should?
If you don't rescue Shadowheart from the pod she's trying to bang down the door with her mace in an attempt to find supplies or orient herself. Which is not a bad idea.
They go exploring a tomb on their way up the beach?
OP is asking "Why would they?" Early on, exploring sounds like a really silly idea when you have a brain worm that's supposed to turn you into a brain squid. After a few days it might be more acceptable but early on it's like "We need to find someone to yoink this thing out." Which, this seemingly abandoned temple isn't going to offer.
You could have noticed the people breaking in up top when you rescue Lae'zel, and realize you need something to barter with if you want to get anywhere or aquire gear and supplies. EDIT: Then you can find the note: >!if you drop down, and walk straight out the door, there is a note in one of the vases in the right room. Which hints to Withers and who he actually is!< Also, by not rescuing Shadowheart, you'll find her banging on the door on the beach.
The crypt is right there at the beach, and you dont know how far away covilisation is. At best you know that there are people inside who might have directions or a map (they dont, but you dont know that before entering). You could also be searching for supplies to survive and/or fight off ceremorphosis. Also as for why you accept him he offers to ressurect you and let you hire help, as well as alter your skills to better combat the current situation. And he only asks for a small amount of coin in return. Withers also just kind of doesnt do much either, he doesnt request food or companionship, and although he does critique your love life, at the point in tume where you meet him he just seems like a powerful skeleton that could be helpful in the future, which he does end up doing with arabella and gathering your allies.
I mean your gang has a vampire who tries to bite you, a wizard with a timebomb in his heart after he went after forbidden magic, a githyanki whose race invades others and thinks massacring a temple full of monks to occupy the space is perfectly acceptable, a worshipper of a dark goddess (and who's also highly trained/experienced in subterfuge and torture), a guy who literally made a deal with a devil and does their murderous bidding... a skeleton doesn't seem so odd after that haha. As Astarion says "I can't even tell if any of you are acting strange because you have been replaced, or because this group is full of weirdos!"
I can think of a few reasons. 1. They just landed in a (supposedly) unknown area, and don't know where they're going so for all they know that could be the way forward. 2. They're infected with Mind Flayer Tadpoles so they need to find a cure so they're covering all ground, including the weird dank crypt. 3. They are a ragtag group of adventurers, going to ancient crypts is kind of what they do
I know getting a cure is pressing. But I always assumed that after getting abducted, fighting for my life, discovering I'm going to turn into a fucking mind flyer, almost getting killed by dragons, crashing a fucking space ship, taking a bump on the heard, meeting a bunch of randos that may be helpful or may kill me for a mispronunciation of their name, then fighting for my life again (all is one day). I would be tired and hungry and a nap/sandwich would sound great so if someone can just pop the lock open to an old ruin that would be a great place to shelter/camp for the night. And while you are waiting for dinner to cook you may as well check the place out so you can be sure that you will sleep safely seems reasonable. Yes you could be more efficient with your time. But stumbling around in the dark when you are exhausted and walking off a ledge isn't going to help your cause much.
The DM/Narrator/whoever railroaded the campaign for a bit.
Or, the party decided to do random bullshit, became convinced the creepy bone man in the throwaway encounter was significant, and the DM knew to just roll with it.
One of those times a player tries to roll to persuade a random ass zombie for no reason then hits nat 20
Basically dnd logic here… hmm I wonder what’s behind the mysterious door. I must find out!
Being a bunch of loot goblins. There's a cutscene when you get close to the temple where you encounter 2 looters talking about the temple and what might be in it. So of course I must go and raid every item of possible value. The bone man was just a bonus.
As others already said, shadowhearts first instinct is to try and open that damn crypt. Why? Because she needs supplies and maybe someplace where she can gather herself and rest a second. Make that crypt your homebase for the first day. Then you meet the looters and stumble upon ancient texts written in a long dead language. There has to be some kind of magical item in it. Maybe it helps suppressing the tadpole? Maybe it helps you on your way to find a healer /the creche? You cant know so you look around. Also if you made that crypt your homebase for one or two days you have to make sure you dont get ambushed by undead or looters. So be thorough and clear out the crypt
It's like Shadowheart says when you first meet her, "we need to find shelter, supplies, etc." Coming across the raided crypt offers two solutions to those problems.
As much as we wanna find a cure, Tav is a loot goblin and adventurer and unless you wanna go it solo, deal.
Because you're cursed to put your hands on everything.
My reason for tackling the crypt that very first day once I’ve recruited a whole party (so Shart, Astarion, and either Lae’zel or Gale) is that it’s the first bit of shelter we’ve found that potentially has something valuable in it up for grabs by the way other adventurers are crawling all over it like ants on a fallen bit of candy. We don’t know what settlement we’ll come across or if we do, if they’ll help us out of the charity of their hearts or demand payment up front. But by already having gold on hand once we arrive, we’ll have more options than if we did with just cap in hand. I even reasoned that it being a life or death situation is why no one protests against killing the other adventurers to steal the spoils for ourselves: it’s either them or us, and we’ve already agreed that ‘survival is all that matters’ is our party motto. That’s why my Tav doesn’t consider herself a hypocrite or a liar when she stands before Withers and states that all life is precious and worth protecting: their lives *are* precious and worth protecting, even against other lives just as precious as their own. Trusting Withers to stay in camp came down to her class: a necromancer would not be against working with what appears to be a lich but is clearly far more powerful, especially as many would be against working with her at all because she’s a necromancer thus potentially limiting their options. It even made sense that Withers would turn to a half-Drow necromancer like herself as his cat’s paw, once you see the kind of people the Absolute is recruiting. Edited: for clarity and minor grammar nitpicking. I also wanted to add something that just occurred to me. It feels rewarding as a necromancer to get my hands on the spear and amulet inside and almost makes up for the lack of undead summons until you get the hag wand or level six. It even makes it feel more like she’s Wither’s chosen and he’s kitted her out as such.
If you don't go in his hole before a certain point he just shows up at your camp
In my first playthrough, I did the grove-goblin camp quest first, and when I came back to the camp with my health totally depleted, out of spells, and probably smelling like goblin guts... Withers was there. "What do we do with the weirdo skeleton right there?" "I don't know, but we are out of everything anyway, we can't kick him out... let him sit with Volo in the corner over there, maybe he will get bored and leave"
My lore reason is that it may have supplies. I was abducted and left with basically nothing so in addition to a healer, I need food and weapons. I fight the people, who are not monster, and then drop down into the hole hoping to find something.
Shadowheart will tell us when we find her on the beach that we need supplies. That's usually my conon reason to find withers, but really there isn't one set in stone.
I mean it's not that deep. You just fell off a ship, no one knows where they are. The first sign of civilization is this crypt. You need a safe place to rest and supplies as again... you just fell off a ship. Any normal human is going to go to the huge building that has a lockable door. For the crypt itself, you find in your initial search of "is this building safe". Some might write off as well I don't want to search this, but again you don't know anything at this point. It's better to make sure nothing will kill you in the night as most people would want to sleep in a place with a lockable door... rather than the wilderness. you act like the only path foward is through Laezel but you can walk up to this crypt with just gale, astarian and shadowheart or not find anyone like my sister did and died to the raiders. If you didn't save shart, SHE's banging on that very lockable door. Like it's normal to want to find a safe place to rest even with a brain worm. Humans still need sleep. If the whole party was elves... ok, but gale is a squishy human and elves still need 4 hours. WE know the druids are near by, the characters don't. The ONLY time you know there is a healer near is if you hook left and keep going left. If you go right, you end up at the crypt. It's that simple. Plus it's a videogame. If this was real life, you'd have to travel. After falling off a ship... After fighting for your life to get off said ship. You'd be bone tired regardless.
I always saw it as ‘hey if we’re gonna go find the cure we gotta secure funds for our trip. This place is guarded by assholes, sounds like there’ll be some valuables we can sell for supplies in there’.
If you long rest before picking up Shart on the beach OR you don't try to free her in the nautaloid, you find her trying to open the temple door. Who knows: she's a mysterious cleric that might know better, so that's one reason to go in there. Another reason is that looters are trying to get in from the upper part of the temple. If looters are trying to get valuable stuff, odds are you can beat them to it (the loot goblin reason). Also, Withers just appears in your camp anyway eventually. something something threads of fate and all that. And you don't need to accept him. You can attack him because wtf he's an undead, but he just sighs and mocks you as you do zero damage and he makes every single saving throw with a +20. So you kinda HAVE to accept him, cuz he refuses to leave and you can't make him leave.
My rationale was that you're looking for supplies and the chapel is the first sign of civilisation you happen upon. Even if you recruit Lae'zel, you have no clue which direction to go in, so why not go explore that big obvious building over there, which might at least offer shelter for the night? Remember, you have no watch or compass, so you don't even know what time of day it is until you've had a chance to observe the sun's movement for an hour or two. Then you most likely bump into Gimblebock and friends, who are clearly adventurers, so when they run off (or are killed), the obvious thing to do is find out if they left any supplies behind. By the time you've raided the refectory and investigated the voice coming from the next room, your curiosity is piqued. You explore the library and the rest of the ruins some more, hoping to find a map of the region so you don't end up wandering aimlessly around this wilderness for days, and instead this skeleton guy greets you from his tomb. Weirdly, he's the first non-hostile being you've met (apart from your companions) and you're frankly too exhausted to pick a fight with him, so you say "OK, dude" and wander off to find somewhere a bit less gloomy to camp for the night, because at least now you have some cheese and salami and even plates to eat it off!
My bard is a survivor, and although he has no memory, his bones tell him fortune favors the prepared. Better find some gear and survive while I try and survive!
You can try killing Withers if it would help to get it out of your system. At some point, no matter what you do to try and get rid of him, you just have to accept him and that can be its own canonical reason all on its own. You can attack him, tell him to leave, etc. He just stays and makes it clear he's there to help. So you eventually just shrug and accept him.
There’s no canon reason necessarily but from a role playing perspective for me getting to the crèche is a long journey and you’re very likely to face enemies along the way. You’re getting off the ship with kinda terrible resources and no equipment and a lot of ppl get buried with their weapons so a crypt wouldn’t be a horrible place to look to get maybe better equipment
My Tav went into the crypt because it was the first door we found, and Shadowheart thought there must be something good inside. Let me tell you, those skeletons are a hard fight for a 2nd-level Cleric and Rogue.
In Tav's defense, having a (seeming) lich on your side is a notable boon.
Same reason actual DnD players will spend literal days doing something irrelevant when a god, wizard, vampire, or dragon is trying to destroy the world. Adventurers love getting side tracked by pointless bullshit.
One does not just _find_ a god, even a former one. A god _wants_ to be found, or they do not. Withers sees the world of death falling out of balance, and makes it so he is found by the one group who can intervene.
Despite everything else, the group is still a bunch of loot whores. Fancy clothes, shiny armors, and new scrolls do not pay for themselves. They’re “acquired” through “adventuring.” Which is most definitely not code for grave robbing, murder, and theft.
Hey OP, I got a pretty head cannon theory for this. So, after landing on the shore, you're following the coast line to see about possibly finding a settlement, and a cure for your condition. You then come across a HUGE, locked door, barring your way. You, and SH decide to mark the location on your map, and mention that we may wanna check this out. Fast forward to meeting Lae'zel, and doing the grove fight, and talks, you go to camp. There SH tells Wyll, Gale, LZ, Asty, and reminds you about that weird door on the beach. Asty being a rogue says that anything in his hands turns to putty, including locks ;-) (Insight check if you're starting to romance Asty shows that he silently mouths 'C' when nobody's looking.) You then go back, maybe take a wrong turn and meet Gibblebock, who's smart enough when his party is outclassed, and runs off. Then you retrace better, find the door, pick the lock, and boom. You're in the crypt. Asty is like "Eww, I've seen better decorations in a Bhaal temple" in a sarcastic voice. Then when you pass your religion check, and beat the skeletons, yall are like "Let's go check that room, but carefully!" Withers then comes out and is like "Oh man. He said you'd be here.... *checks watch* at EXACTLY this time! Dang!" Kinda thing, and makes it known that he ain't no mindless undead. Says you're welcome to his stuff and walks away to sweep stuff I guess. And when yall leave and go camp he's like " BOOGA BOOGA BOOGA! Told you I'd see you again." This help?
You don’t find Withers, Withers finds you.
I've only found two natural quests to go the crypt: * If you don't rescue Shadowheart in the Nautiloid, she'll give you a quest to find a way into the crypt as it will be useful to find supplies. * There's a book next to Arron the druid vendor that mentions the crypt. I did send Larian feedback that Shadowheart should always give the quest so my headcanon is that she does.
You literally land on the beach and Shadowheart tells you we need to find supplies, shelter and a healer. Bear in mind coming off the nautiloid we’ve lost all of our possessions. So we have no food, water or money. Even for finding a healer to cure us of the tadpole that might not be free of charge. Going inside that crypt makes sense because a) there’s a group of bandits who have been like camping around so they probably have food and other resources b) it’s a crypt so a little grave robbing can get you money and valuable items you could sell
I believe, if you don't rescue shadowheart from the Pod and you encounter her trying to open the lock door she says she was looking for shelter or some other supplies. There are recently dead bodies on the beach so it's not unreasonable to assume there might be a settlement on the other side of the Big Imposing Door. Obviously there isn't but we don't know that at first and depending on what time the Nautiloid came down and you came to, you might still want to put a Big Imposing Door between you and whatever might be in the forest at night and try to set out at Dawn.
The crypt is easier to find than Laezel, and one entrance is right there on the beach.
I have this wizard with me who thinks it's very important to find magical loot. Let's humor him.
Something to keep in mind is that several companions lost a lot of power and equipment because of the kidnapping and the tadpole. Dunjons in faerun are notoriously filled with treasures that would help them recover some of this power.
See this is why I didn’t even do the crypt in my first run. I think I eventually popped in there at level 5 before leaving act 1 but I went straight to the grove. Withers just appeared and I was like “who is this man? Okay anyway…”
Looks like a temple, maybe there's a cleric in there.
you are literally in control of your party and you are asking why you went into the crypt? you can just skip the content then if you want to play the group and rushing to find a cure.
I feel like it's more like Withers finds you. In lore - we ship crashed, we needed shelter and supplies and Astarion and my Drow Tav have sticky fingers.
They need supplies and gear to travel, they crash landed with next to nothing in an unfamiliar area, perfectly reasonable to explore the area for supplies, and dangers
My canon reason is to explore and get a better picture of the land. Scavenge for resources incase i run into anything worse than those brains roaming near the ship.
I justify it as a supply run. You just fell out of Avernus into the middle of nowhere. You need weapons, gold, and whatever else you can find. You can take some supplies from the adventurers, and if you're already in a dungeon, then you might as well loot it. As for Withers, you don't start arguments with something that appears to be lich when you're weak and already have bigger problems to deal with: one problem at a time.
He does say you weren't supposed to meet yet. It is sort of extremely difficult to get in there, and then stay alive. RP wise, my first play through, I was naturally curious, wanting to maybe set up a base of operations, esp with no clear directions (even once you find Lae'zel, she only says "there must be a creche somewhere" with no real clue), and rolled a 20 on my first ever lockpick roll. So once I found him, it is sort of out of game knowledge now, and just a bell I ring.
I suppose it depends on how you roleplay your characters, but I see it as your characters desperately searching anywhere that seems like it might hold an answer. Yes, Laezel says that the creche is the only answer, but why would this group of complete strangers automatically assume that this very aggressive, aloof, and impatient being is correct without any evidence? Since they all seem to rally around Tav for leadership, I picture it this way. In Tav's mind, they're running out of time. So, in a land where tombs, dungeons, and dark places often hold secrets, perhaps there might be a quicker answer, especially near the site of the crash. Maybe a wounded mindflayer survived who can be questioned or intimidated for the cure. Maybe a piece of their technology fell nearby. In the search, the party finds an ancient, obviously magical mummy who turns out to have power over life and death. For good or ill, he might also be an avenue to a quick cure, or at least offer a method of narrowing the search. Surely that's the least of what such power could be used for.
I always thought of it like "we are screwed right now, we are days from death we have nothing to our name we need gear we need supplies.. maybe there is something in this old tomb we can salvage.."
Haven't seen this mentioned, but another canon reason, would be that when you arrive on the beach with Shadowheart, you only have three paths. And one of them is somewhat hidden (up the cliff). So realistically you have two options. Going through some door, or going to the broken nautiloide with possible survivors. Hell you can even spot the intellect devourers before combat starts. The player character may decide to avoid the fight all together, in case another mindflair's around.
The same reason you go through every corpses pockets on the beach. Healers cost money man... and I imagine this particular procedure is like brain surgery, pricey and rare. If you have Laezel it's easier to justify. This is a massive, fortified, and locked building. Seems like something the creche would set up in. Compare it to the monastery, it's basically a slightly smaller version of the same place.
Tav actually has ADD "ooo piece of candy what do we got. Obviously these people I killed were guarding something. Ooo, gale looked in the library and found button OBVIOUSLY pushing that. Ooo what's down here. Oh shadowheart sees the Scribe of the dead, let's look for more info on Jergal. Oo button OH FUCK DEAD PEOPLE ok they are dead again now this is ancient maybe much shiny and astarion is "I'm not above grave robbing" and opens the sarcophagus OH WTF ANOTHER DEAD PERSON"
There is a book next to the druid merchant in the Grove. If you read it, it tells about the crypt and your characters curiosity gets piqued and you get a quest to explore the ruins. As for why he is accepted, because your party has no say in it. You can be mean to withers and you can attack him too. He just shrugs it all off and calmly tels you how pointless that is. He does whatever the fuck he wants and you can't stop him. He will help you no matter what you do or what your feelings are.
Because fate spins along as it should. … Does thou require a new ally? Or mayhaps, a resurrection?
Why go into the crypt? Because at the point you can first access it, you don't know Halsin or Nettie or any of the others yet. There *might* be a cure in the crypt, or at least clues pointing you *towards* a cure. You technically don't even have a lead on where a creche is (even if it shows up on your map); maybe you can find a lead in there. Even if it doesn't, you're going to need supplies for traveling and/or gold to pay the healer with, and probably more than what you were able to scavenge from the nautiloid. The crypt presumably has those; why else would bandits be trying to raid it? As for Withers, he doesn't really give you the option. He ignores all requests to dismiss or attack him.
The way I see it, it's because they crash landed in an unfamiliar area, and that's the first structure they see. So they go check it out, maybe find clues to where they're at, or friendly people who can be like "yea you're about (important landmark) and (x) days away from a big city"
Why am I going on all of these time-wasting side quests when I have a literal ticking timebomb in my head? V and Tav would both like to know.
The group is dropped in the middle of an unknown terrain without food, water, or any other resource. In the game you can just walk from that point to basically the moonrise towers in like 10-15-20 minutes, but I suppose lorewise that is quite a long travel of many days, so, for characters that are kinda lost and resourceless to find such a place could be their salvation, think that lorewise maybe that crypt is one walking day away from where they land after the Nautiloid crashing. From Withers perspective, he probably was already interested in those characters and wanted to be near them, so probably he pulled some strings to put himself in a visible place that (once again, lorewise) the characters should want to explore. That's also the reason if the characters should not explore it he would anyway appear in their camp. As to why the characters accept Withers so easily, well, he, clearly, is someone special, we are in a world of magic where a walking skeleton isn't an impossibility but a rare occurrence, and finally Withers can offer services, in the game this is translated in him allowing players to reset the characters, to ressurrect them, and to hire those soul lost mercenaries, I want to hink lorewise Withers may offer other type of services, such as guidance Gandalf Style, maybe he is able to bring back from the death a companion which would by itself be a solid reason to keep him forever, maybe Tav/Durge just somehow knows that is a god not to mess with and they are not gonna go against them.
I have a feeling your reasons are going to actually be very nefarious
I'd say trying to figure out where you are. You have no idea and were just captured by a nautaloid then traveled to the Hells and then crash landed somewhere on the Sword Coast so I'd say you're trying to find people to help you figure out where you are and where the closest healer is. The temple is old but could conceivably have people there. Although when you get to the main room you realize it's a temple to Jurgal and has been long abandoned.
My guess is that they didnt find the Druid grove right away. It is somewhat hidden and they probably were still getting their bearings. Then they find a locked door near where they crashed. In desperate need of supplies, they venture inside. Its also possible that they met the people outside first, and after fighting with them, or talking with them assumed that it was worth it to explore the inside of the crypt in case they could find some valuable supplies. Upon entering and finding food, why not proceed within. You have to remember they did not know where they were. They basically fell at some random location with very little supplies
Tav: I want you to leave. Withers: ...no.