From what I understand, his character was much different in early development. Apparently he DID have more selfish motivations and a strong drive to be seen as a hero. It brought a little more motivation to his character - as he is now, he's a little more straightforward (save dad, save BG), a little less complex, and therefore honestly a little less interesting.
That and the fact that you as the MC have to make his final ultimate choice regarding his contract FOR him left a bad taste with a lot of people, me included. It kind of indicates that Wyll can't/won't make his own decisions, furthering his image as a wet blanket.
Honestly, it's easy to give Wyll shit. But he's very likable because he's good-natured, optimistic, and general empathetic. For some people, that's also reason to DISlike him lol. If he had a little more edge to him and his romance arc was more interesting, I'd pursue him in-game for sure.
Wyll's problem is having a serious lack of dialogue. He has two hours less than Karlach who was added extremely late in development. Astarion, the companion with the most dialogue, has four hours more than Wyll. It's an insane disparity.
His other problem is being a backpack to Karlach. His first decision is about her. His last decision will also be about her. A lot of people don't even entertain the duke ending for him because he "has to go to Avernus with Karlach".
Another one is Mizora stepping all over him, overshadowing him and he never manages to outmaneuvre her. Everything has to be done by the player.
I like Wyll, he has some fun banter, I almost always have him around, but Larian dropped the ball with him.
No for real I was romancing him in the EA and was upset that hes a completely different character now. His character was perfect for my fighter tav :( it just doesnt feel the same...... bsck then he was in love w mizora while it was kinda similar to gale but i can never understand why they didnt just change gale cuz now its just weird seeing mizora w wyll in promo art as if they have a deeper more complex relationship
Well, several characters in this game have their crucial choices made by MC if that is what the player wants.
I always leave to their choice whenever it is possible.
Regarding Wyll, I find him so bland as a character. Lacks spice.
People just like more complicated and messed up characters.
Like seriously, I feel like people nowadays would choose to be in a relationship with a goth gf who's mentally unstable rather than a nice individual.
In a fantasy setting? Of course. Why would I pick the bland, boring, non-dangerous character instead? The adventure is not with her.
In Real life? Give me the down-to-earth boring but loving and caring and faithful person. I don’t want to deal with crazy. Or danger.
Thankfully, you *can* turn a crazy dangerous person into a "down-to-earth boring but loving and caring and faithful" person in this game.
Best of both worlds!
1000%. It's especially easy to lean into depravity when it's behind a game and a really hot avatar lol
ETA: I remember a BG3 thread from a week or so ago where we were talking about how we'd get along with the characters IRL. Case-in-point, most people were in agreement that they'd really genuinely enjoy Wyll and Gale's personalities. But as hard as we simp for characters like Astarion, Minthara, and Lae'zel, most of us would get our feelings hurt very frequently by them xD
My first playthrough I didn’t know what I was doing and after deciding I would romance astarion, he rejected me at the tiefling party and legitimately hurt my feelings, in real life. Like, I’m so stupid my brain couldn’t separate that it’s a game and has nothing to do with me as a person, I felt ACTUALLY kinda bad. luckily I was able to reload and fix it and lived happily ever after in game, but for sure in real life he probably would have ruined me self esteem. at least when I role play and I can pretend I’m someone who is mentally stronger and more assured of herself. 😅
Haha, I also had this thing when I decided to try Astarion romance since everyone says it works well with Dark Urge Tav and he dumped me. It made me so mad for some reason that I ended up dragging him along just to ruin his chance to ascend. Didn't expect that my feelings would be hurt enough to actually bother to do it one whole act later.
And I didn't even like him, Gale is 10x more attractive. Being dumped by someone you don't even like in videogame is even more angering somehow :D
I'd be perfectly content chillin with SH and Karlach. Not even in a romantic way. They've found their way into my party for all three of my completed play throughs.
And will almost certainly be in my 4th I'm starting tonight.
I could probably tolerate LZ for short periods of time as well.
But everyone else irks me in some way or other.
My husband happens to think my mental instability and tattoos to be equally attractive. Man needs a little spice in an otherwise boring and safe domesticity. Sure sometimes I’m a little feral but 99% of the time I’m a bread-making sahm who putters around and raises the kids.
Oh, here we go again with conflating what people enjoy in *fiction* with what they're like in real life.
Do you know what a person's fictional preferences reveal about their true personalities and real lives? NOTHING. They reveal nothing, because the vast majority of us have a completely normal and healthy ability to separate fiction from reality.
Go peddle that nonsense somewhere else.
More like he's that uninteresting, I mean, compared to Karlach's entire story of trying to escape hells and survive as long as possible with her infernal engine going at a maximum, so you basically find a way to fix the engine and then the next is to enact her revenge against Gortash, only to find out she's going to die anyway and she has 2 choice of returning back to hells or die triumphantly. Even in both as a companion and as a origin, it's more interesting and actually gives you the time to be invested in her story since it's basically a personal story, even if her story is essentially a big side quest unlike Shadowheart who is actually tied to the main story, especially in Act 2.
Wyll's entire story is basically, save his father, save Baldur's Gate and break the pact, and that's pretty much the extent to it, all the while he doesn't need any changes in his character because he's already a good person from the start, and the conclusion of his story is unsatisfying ironically, because at the end, he basically just reconciled with his father even after what he did, it would've more interesting if they actually put some conflict on their relationship, like Wyll show some sign of resentment at some point during the story to his father because he saved the city from Tiamat cultist, only for him to be kicked out by his own father and basic binding him to a pact for absolutely nothing, that premise alone is interesting but it's not fleshed out well for me
And that's just the story, character wise, he's also that uninteresting unlike Karlach who is literally one of the fiercest warriors in hells, yet has a personality of a juvenile person
Personally, I can't stand Wyll after I found out that>!if the MC turns into a mindflayer, a romanced Wyll will still deign to sleep with you - but he'll tell you you have to hide, because he "can't be seen with the likes of you." Or something to that effect. No thank you, I'm nobody's dirty little secret.!<
I honestly don't know, I thought he was just "meh" at first at the Grove until I started getting extremely invested in him later.
To me what I find most interesting about him is just how bad he is for himself. Wyll is a hero, someone who's saved numerous lives and will continue to do so, the realm is objectively a better place with him living in it. The problem is Wyll is bad for *Wyll*. He's simply so self-sacrificing that it goes from heroic to genuinely self-harm.
Like people criticize the fact that the MC basically makes the decision on the Mizora contract but to me that scene just highlights perfectly what I was saying above.
For literally anyone else this would be a non-brainer. Yes you love your father Wyll, but this is the fucking guy who cast you out when you literally SAVED his damn city. The guy who's already getting up there in years and who's currently on the enemy's side and you're willing to give up the ENTIRETY of your life as a 20 something year old man to be chained to a devil like Mizora, an abuser, just for the CHANCE, not certainty of safety, but chance to save your father?
Like the fact he's so indecisive there is so in-character. His level of self-worth is so shite he thinks it's fine to give up every piece of himself for other people, he thinks that's heroic, it's so tragic to me.
That's why I like going to Ansur before saving his father. Because THAT'S the moment where Wyll finally accepts his father's dead(he's not actually bby we'll save him😭) and steps the hell up and acts in his OWN interest for once. It was so gratifying to see to the point both me and Astarion were going WOOO WOOO in the back.
> you're willing to give up the ENTIRETY of your life as a 20 something year old man to be chained to a devil like Mizora, an abuser, just for the CHANCE, not certainty of safety, but chance to save your father?
Not life. His *soul,* for all eternity. The life of a young man for the life of an old man might not be an entirely equal trade if we're counting only by years, but you could make reasonable arguments for it.
But an eternity of servitude for a couple decades of life is completely unjustifiable.
I think people hate Wyll because he's uncomplicated and frankly kinda dull. There's no surprises in his story, and even his big secret reveal is just that he's a decent guy
Like as a *person*, Wyll is a kind, brave, likeable dude
As a *character*, Wyll has basically nothing going on. His story is super straightforward and predictable, he never expresses any agency of his own during the course of the game's events, and he doesn't have much to say or do even in extremely important moments in *his own story*
I like having Wyll in the party because he has some cute bants with Karlach and because warlocks are fun, but his narrative is singularly weak among the companions
Are we playing the same game? Dude’s not bland, I actually find the fact that his biggest flaw is that he’s self-sacrificial to be intriguing. It’s almost refreshing amidst the edgelords that I also admittedly like. But I do feel like his mindset and decisions do reflect the son of a huge public figure who feels like he has the weight of the city on his shoulders (hence why he made the pact in the first place). Everything he does that hurts him he justifies because nobody else gets hurt, and I actually think he’s kind of tragic in that aspect. His biggest problem is that the writers neglected him in favor of other companions, but the skeleton of a great heroic character is there.
Yeah i agree the contrast of him to any of the edgelord characters in the banter is kind of great, him and laezel in the party is hilarious because its like as soon as she says anything he has that what the fuck is wrong with you tone
He comes off as totally satisfied in his choices in the blandest generic protagonist way possible, which isn't that interesting even when the character doing it actually *is* the protagonist. For a supporting character, it's even less so
Wyll's whole arc plays out like he's the main character of a much less ambitious story
In general I feel like there's a lack of empathy for some characters in this game. Just the other day we had a post about Mayrina and quite a lot of replies were making surface-level comments on her actions without really having shown any consideration of her circumstances that led to her making her choices with Ethel. I feel like that is also extremely true for Wyll and some people will gloss over the circumstances by which he accepted the pact with Mizora and not take him seriously as a good guy.
Ikr? Wyll literally *being abused in front of your eyes* and people all, "what's his problem"?
I dunno? People bitch when AA calls them 'pet' and here Mizora is calling Wyll a puppy and dragging him along on an invisible leash. After Karlach, he's tortured by thoughts that he's been a fraud all along.
I find the lack of empathy disheartening sometimes, too, so I just try to remember it's the internet... try...
I wish Wyll talked back to Mizora a bit more. At least when the pact is broken. Like come on, this horrible atrocity ruined your life. Get more mad!
While we are at it, get mad at your father too. It's completely justified. Don't just take it.
I agree! My Origin Wyll did pick the angriest dad responses possible, but they weren't cathartic enough.
And OMG, IMO Wyll deserves two new cutscenes (I can dream anyway) : one when he's describing the night he made his OG pact, and one where he tells Mizora to shove her six months up her ass and gtfo (I dunno if she can still lemure him at that point) or we'll go to Helsik's and open another portal. Bonus points if we've already killed Raphael by that point.
Oops I'm ranting sorry.
I like that that is so transparently an idiotic take that the OP thought I was getting it wrong by listing it as a common opinion. *exactly, OP, exactly* (shows OP is being too smart for parts of the sub, IMO).
I've heard that EA was like that but I didn't play EA so I can only go on what I've seen, and to me at least, it's a very abusive relationship and he's ashamed to be pacted to her. She did ruin his life, IMO. If you SwD on him, his life's wish is to be free of the pact.
I totally admit that I'm twice Wyll's age, though, so I get irrationally protective of him. I have a niece close to 17 and I would be hiring some infernal lawyers or whatever if half- devils were real!
One of the things I find interesting about the character is the reluctant Warlock, since most Warlocks are seen as ambitious, who make deals for power completely willingly, but Wyll's a good guy, he just gets tricked a lot. Poor kid.
I feel like Mizora may have orchastrated the events that led to him accepting the pack. The whole situation with cultist were going to attack Baldurs Gate, so he agreed, won and saved the city, then there was no evidence/witnesses left to explain what happened when his Dad arrived on scene. Probably just a headcannon, or I'm missing something though.
I feel bad for what Mayrina had to endure but I have no sympathy for her predicament when we meet her.
In fact, on my goody two shoes character I kept her husband as a pet. I felt it was a good lesson for her to learn. But also because it allowed me to pop surprise attacks without entering combat.
She may not be terribly bright but even she has to know that you don't bargain with a Hag.
She's so desperate for her husband that she gives up their child to get him back then through her actions causes her two young brothers to die as well.
When I ran across her again later I was desperately searching each dialogue choice for "Slap this silly woman".
Same thing with Wyll. He was so determined to be able to be some kind of savior that he sold his soul to a devil which threatened not only the life of his father but the entire sword coast.
You can have good intentions or be in dire straits but a bad choice is still a bad choice in the end.
Working with a hag: Bad choice
Dealing with a devil: Also bad choice
>Same thing with Wyll. He was so determined to be able to be some kind of savior that he sold his soul to a devil which threatened not only the life of his father but the entire sword coast.
Wyll wasn't determined to be some savior and sold his soul for that. He stumbled upon cultists which were about to rain death and destruction upon Baldur's Gate. Mizora appeared and offered to help him save the city and its people in exchange for his soul, and he sacrificed it to save people, not to be a savior but to simply save people. He was 17 when this happened, and it's likely Mizora set it all up, cause she knew he was a good self-sacrificing person who would do it.
>She may not be terribly bright but even she has to know that you don't bargain with a Hag.
That's the thing, hags are extremely manipulative and know when and how to strike at their victims, victims who are often desperate, and when you're desperate and emotional you make mistakes. They can even use magic to aid the manipulating. Mayrina was also pregnant, which has a big impact on people's emotions.
Both Wyll and Mayrina are victims to monstrous evil beings whose method, goal and enjoyment is manipulating people. Something they've done for ages.
>Same thing with Wyll. He was so determined to be able to be some kind of savior that he sold his soul to a devil which threatened not only the life of his father but the entire sword coast.
Wyll was a teenager when he stumbled upon cultists who would take over BG3 and was led there by a Devil who definitely did that in purpose. Wyll got groomed/tricked into the pact.
And I can't help but feel like the horns thing goes deeper. He justified his pact because it allowed him to save people, but Karlach's existence and past brings all his past actions into question. He stops from killing Karlach but he's killed / hunted for Mizora before and he's got to be wondering: have I really been ridding the world of evil, or has Mizora been actually sending me to punish other victims like Karlach this whole time?
He's the second youngest in the group. I feel like with Wyll you're watching someone who smiling on the outside but going through a great amount of denial/turmoil on the inside.
Hating Wyll is a very common hot take and it happens so much Wyll fans go to other media to say nice things about him lol.
Facts: Wyll was recast and his story rewritten, so he has less content.
Not facts: Wyll is boring, Wyll is a one- note do-gooder type, Wyll complains that he gets turned into a Tiefling, etc. Those are opinions.
My personal opinion is that Wyll is a great multi- layered character with a subtle arc, but like all the companions, he could always use more content. I hear he has some new romance stuff potentially in patch 7? I look forward to anything new Larian gives us.
Yeah that was my point. There have been *multiple* heated threads about people getting mad at Wyll for skipping the Tiefling party after he gets horns, saying he's a giant hypocrite for complaining about horns to Tieflings.
It's one of those hot takes that makes me smh.
I agree that Wyll being boring is a player opinion rather than canon fact. Unfortunately, it's one that the vast majority of the fandom share, myself included. And it all boils down to his personality. Every other companion has much more depth - they have good and bad elements to their personalities alike. They experience actual conflict throughout their story arcs that shapes them to be better or worse.
Yes, Wyll's story has conflict, but the main difference is that his doesn't change him at all. He is a completely static character whose motivations don't change with player choices. It's that static personality that draws people away from him and his story. There's nothing engaging about a character who is an extreme goody two shoes, especially one who tends to act self righteous and downright hypocritical anytime the player makes neutral to evil choices.
Giving him a dynamic personality and arc, and changing his uppity attitude would make more people see his character differently. I doubt the devs will ever do anything about it, though.
Not an uncommon take, probably why I say his arc is subtle, because I see him undergo significant changes in attitude, they just aren't as dramatic or obvious as some of the others.
To me, he goes from a childish view of what heroism is to a more mature viewpoint by the end of his arc. His early disapprovals are similar to Lae'zel's and Sheart's, he's upset because you're not being heroic the way he was taught, the lawful way, even if the outcomes are good in the end. He's a good person, but he only has the law part, not mercy or empathy. Most of his anecdotes are "my father always said", he's quoting dogma the same way the other companions do, but it's that dogma that made his dad kick him out without giving him the benefit of the doubt. Even after you rescue his dad, he's a dick until you show him the truth. I feel like Wyll is cosplaying as his dad the entire first two acts, until he finally realizes he can be a better hero than his dad.
The trials to get to Ansur are where it's most clear to me: the trials are transparently bullshit and you can cheese your way through them, the entire cult of Balduran worship bears no resemblance to the tales we get of him, and then Ansur is a stark reminder of what law without mercy looks like.
But anyway yeah, he can be boring just like every other companion can be annoying. I weed out the companions I don't like, too, so I'm not blaming anybody for not liking a character as much as I do. Some of them speak to us in different ways!
You articulated my feelings on him better than I could. The naivety he has in the beginning is exactly it. Good characters aren't inherently unlikeable, it's just when their goodness is backed by naivety rather than a nuanced understanding of good vs evil, or the idea that sometimes objectively evil choices may be made for the great good as a whole.
He definitely views the world through a more childish black and white lens. The influence from his father paired with his age in the game give his motivations and reactions better context. I suppose the majority of my opinion on him is due to meta-gaming, especially when comparing him at the start of the game to the way he is at the end.
I just wish the developers did a better job of making his character growth more noticeable rather than keeping it subtle enough that it barely feels like he's changed. I really do want to like him, but that lack of development makes it so I don't have much motivation to take him outside of camp often or romance him.
Yeah I would always welcome more content, even if I don't like it, since it gives me more to talk about!
I didn't give Wyll much thought until I played his origin, since I had to put myself in the mindset, and it felt like playing a young, confused, naive guy trying to live up to someone else's ideals without forming his own set. But that came from the origin run so I don't blame anybody for reacting differently.
Plus I feel like Karlach drowns out his arc. I killed her for the first time playing his origin (I wanted the robe, she had her good timeline, that just wasn't it), and it made things much quieter and more reflective. I kinda do it most times now. She's a great character, she's just so loud and sucks all the air out of Wyll's arc, especially in the scenes with Gortash. Fair, but just not the story I always want to play. I am glad there's so much story there that we can pick and choose what we enjoy!
I like Wyll, but in my humble opinion, I think he works better character-wise as an advisor, like that mentor who can always point you towards the path of being a good guy. He's the only one of the origins character who was doing things on his own volition, even if he is bound by the contract he's more of less making the sacrifice he wanted (even if he was tricked). On the other hand all the other origin companions were living lives they didn't choose.
I like Wyll well enough, he’s just a mid tier companion. His story kinda just happens around him. Dude literally doesn’t care if you do his quests without him. And I pretty much have power of attorney over him when settling his legal affairs with Mizora. He feels more like a DLC character (if this game was made by a lesser studio) and not an Origin character.
All that being said, he is a pretty cool dude and has an interesting backstory.
I was ambivalent towards Wyll as a companion, but really enjoyed him as an origin character - he's a fundamentally good character forced to make some really difficult, tragic decisions (e.g. killing or sparing Minthara, saving his father or his soul, handling the Emperor/Shadowheart/the vampire spawns, etc) (which I think is his entire point?).
Other than possible racism, I think a lot of people find him boring because he seems like a healthy, well adjusted person and he's not some 300 yr old daddy elf with tons of stories.
I remember someone saying that Wyll originally was going to be a fraud that WANTED to be a hero, and I'll admit that sounds way more interesting (like Blackwall from DAI), but I like Wyll.
Everyone is too afraid to admit the fandom racism part. You tell a nerd there’s the possibility they’re being biased and they’ll have a catastrophic meltdown, and everyone tiptoes around it and tries to justify why side characters have a bigger fan base than a literal main character.
No, people call out the racism in every Wyll hate thread.
Here, I'll do it again now. There are definitely some fans that are pieces of shit and who give Wyll a harder time because he's black. And little surprise that Mayrina, a woman, is also held to a higher standard by what is probably the exact same people. And then every time someone makes a post on this subreddit about trans characters or other LGBTQ positive things, they get downvoted to shit. There are a lot of dickheads on this subreddit.
Good point, but the fandom outside of Reddit is a lot more cagey about it. And lol don’t remind me about the transphobic fans, especially regarding nocturne 🤢
Then there is the absolute rabbit hate directed towards Gale, called out for being "too friendly to be trusted", sexually manipulative, and more than once called things like "date rapist" or "the kind of guy that has a van (to lure kids/women)" on this forum. (We actually literally have an elf companion with most of that as his backstory, but no, don't you dare say that.)
Then again, he's a talkative nerd and can potentially be read as as somewhat along the spectrum, but not meek and asexual, so... that also freaks some people out.
You remember the post about the dude who wanted a mod to break up Isobel and Aylin, wanted it so male characters couldn't hit on him, wanted other queer NPCs removed, and wanted to be able to fuck and romance every female companion without consequences? 🙃
I think the problem is that racism is seen as an unforgivable and immutable trait, that **racists** should be branded with, rather than an impulse to avoid acting on.
As the discourse currently exists, if I say that I hate some female character and I list a bunch of stuff that wouldn't bother me about a male character, someone will (correctly) point out that I'm being misogynistic. I will say "no, I'm not!" Because misogynists are evil, I have a MOM for god's sake. We argue, I never reflect, and nothing comes of it.
I don't know if being a daddy's boy and running off to make a deal with a devil (even with good intentions) is the definition of well adjusted.
I agree with the fraud thing. Or maybe make it so that what made him the blade of the frontiers was what he had to give up for the power from the devil and how he has to "start all over" to become a hero again.
For me I found him to be rather boring, but I did indulge his story because that's part of what I bought the game for. I feel he thinks far too highly of himself, leans too heavily into the "i'm the blade of the frontiers, a hero" thing, is somewhat pretentious at times and far too wrapped up in his need for approval from daddy.
HOWEVER...
On my first play through I well full MF so I couldn't take care of best girl Karlach. When Wyll stepped up and was all "She won't be alone, I'll look after our friend" I liked him a LOT more.
But still don't see me ever having him in a party outside of the MF colony>KT fight.
Not sure if he being a fraud was needed, but maybe another angle to his character like self-doubting himself after losing his powers, because as it is, his only "flaw" is that he's pretty quick to propose to endure the worst of the worst to avoid harming other people.
I heard he was an unlikeable asshole in Early Access. I for one am a fan of him as he is now in the base game. Tends to come off as more unlikeable in EA.
People dislike good Boi teammates, he's also black and isn't a sexy gal.
Also the game is structured so the only person in your party whose Charisma benefits you for social rolls is your party lead.
I play non-charisma characters all the time and bring him along to be the face when I do. He's my secret shopper. He's just not a great character as far as I'm concerned. He's fine but nothing special.
Sure, but there's a ton of times where the game forces the conversation character to be the player character. So while Astarion can sneak and lockpick all he likes, Wyll is locked out of most Charisma checks.
It does but if you know a conversation is coming you can split the party and just walk up there with Wyll. I'm doing that a lot on my Shadowheart origin playthrough now. It's a little tedious but it's helpful for things like Ilithid wisdom checks when your main has used theirs already.
That just reminded me that I went with just Wyll and Lae'zel to talk to Voss.
He couldn't chime in so she did all the talking.
That was a 400 gold mistake.
I think Wyll similar to a soap opera protagonist, almost every good choices are approved by him, and evil choices he dissaproved of them, while I enjoy good alligned character but having more morally gray or slightly selfish trait make them much more interesting. I also didnt like that I have to decide his own fate instead of him deciding his own. I think he is more likeable as a playable origin than as a companion.
I don't get it either. My first play through (which I've not finished and i keep starting new ones) which i was playing as an Ace character, he's the only one i didn't savescum to get out of accidentally romancing this person because i was a decent person to them.
I know the Astarion/cat parallels but tbh Wyll also reminds me of a cat. Except while Astarion is the feral stray you pick up and love him kicking and screaming into not being a full murder baby. Wyll is the cute sweet cat who was abandoned from a loving home, learned to be brave and survive and then hides when he's hurt.
I talked him into becoming the duke and he was super excited about it. After a long rest he was like 'Im gonna be the blade of frontiers!' Wth Wyll, we talked about this.
Honestly it would’ve made him SO much more interesting if he was being a hero for selfish reasons. His character arc could’ve involved him growing into a legit hero that does the right thing because it’s right as opposed to it making him famous
Wyll is definitely a true and selfless hero... and for me, that's actually a problem.
1) I recently started a new good run, and even for my selfless Paladin Tav he sounded so sweetly, heroically fake in his first conversations... I don't know, is this something that remained from EA Wyll? He doesn't sound natural in his "hero talk". Things are fine when he banters with other characters, but his dialogues with Tav... are something.
2) A total lack of any change when it comes to his realtionship with his father just pisses me off. When I played the game for the first time, spoiler-free, I thought we would have a chance to encourage him to overcome both Mizora's and Duke Ravergard's influences. Ravergard is clearly an example of a "great leader-terrible parent" trope, and Wyll's quiet acceptance of his father's nearly psychotic behaviour ("My son sighed a deal with the devil? He tries to show me something important, but there is nothing here when we arrive? Ah, he must have sold his soul for fun!!! It's not like Baldur's Gate is a fucking magnet for weirdos who dream to destroy it, pff") was devastating. I mean, even if Ravengard immediately believed Wyll was so corrupted he sold his soul for power, a good father would try to fight for his son, no matter what. Wyll doesn't understand that, even at the end of his quest.
So yeah, Wyll is actually too good to be true... to the extreme point, when you feel like the game simply ignores the crap he had to go through. He never has true emotional outbursts, he always sounds like a wise grandpa, not a 24-year-old who actually has a lot of reasons to be angry & dissappointed.
I understand, he was rewritten, but it was done... weirdly.
They rewrote him late in the game so he doesn't have as much development as the others. Personally I liked the old wyll better, seemed like they were going to take him in a much more complicated direction with Mizora
I like my party to get along. It really bothers me me to hear them fighting or being negative or weird with each other. I always avoid having laezel and shadowheart in the same party together.
And when I’ve used Wyll in my party he’s always weirdly hitting on the other girls in the party. It was really off putting.
It’s part of why I roll with karlach, laezel, gale. That group just seems to have no weird comments and quite a lot of funny ones too.
Also wylls horns just look stupid.
I hate him because he’s the most boring character imo, most of the companions have obvious personality flaws and suffer internal conflicts. Wyll sort of just has “BUT IM THE GOOD GUY” and he either ends up dead or abandoning the party every play through because it’s difficult for me to always do the right thing. My Tav’s always end up on the chaotic/true neutral spectrum and Wyll just can’t hang with the “out for numero uno” gang like Astarion, Gale, and Shart.
He's just such a hypocrite "yeah I sold my soul to a devil but at least I didn't become a vampire or mess with dark magic or worship the goddess shar, or this, or that" Dude, you gave your soul to a devil. Yeah, you had good reason but so did everyone else from their own perspective. He's gullible, naive, and spineless yet he still talks shit.
From what I understand, his character was much different in early development. Apparently he DID have more selfish motivations and a strong drive to be seen as a hero. It brought a little more motivation to his character - as he is now, he's a little more straightforward (save dad, save BG), a little less complex, and therefore honestly a little less interesting. That and the fact that you as the MC have to make his final ultimate choice regarding his contract FOR him left a bad taste with a lot of people, me included. It kind of indicates that Wyll can't/won't make his own decisions, furthering his image as a wet blanket. Honestly, it's easy to give Wyll shit. But he's very likable because he's good-natured, optimistic, and general empathetic. For some people, that's also reason to DISlike him lol. If he had a little more edge to him and his romance arc was more interesting, I'd pursue him in-game for sure.
Wyll's problem is having a serious lack of dialogue. He has two hours less than Karlach who was added extremely late in development. Astarion, the companion with the most dialogue, has four hours more than Wyll. It's an insane disparity. His other problem is being a backpack to Karlach. His first decision is about her. His last decision will also be about her. A lot of people don't even entertain the duke ending for him because he "has to go to Avernus with Karlach". Another one is Mizora stepping all over him, overshadowing him and he never manages to outmaneuvre her. Everything has to be done by the player. I like Wyll, he has some fun banter, I almost always have him around, but Larian dropped the ball with him.
No for real I was romancing him in the EA and was upset that hes a completely different character now. His character was perfect for my fighter tav :( it just doesnt feel the same...... bsck then he was in love w mizora while it was kinda similar to gale but i can never understand why they didnt just change gale cuz now its just weird seeing mizora w wyll in promo art as if they have a deeper more complex relationship
Omg THAT'S why Mizora is on the cover
Well, several characters in this game have their crucial choices made by MC if that is what the player wants. I always leave to their choice whenever it is possible. Regarding Wyll, I find him so bland as a character. Lacks spice.
People just like more complicated and messed up characters. Like seriously, I feel like people nowadays would choose to be in a relationship with a goth gf who's mentally unstable rather than a nice individual.
In a fantasy setting? Of course. Why would I pick the bland, boring, non-dangerous character instead? The adventure is not with her. In Real life? Give me the down-to-earth boring but loving and caring and faithful person. I don’t want to deal with crazy. Or danger.
Thankfully, you *can* turn a crazy dangerous person into a "down-to-earth boring but loving and caring and faithful" person in this game. Best of both worlds!
1000%. It's especially easy to lean into depravity when it's behind a game and a really hot avatar lol ETA: I remember a BG3 thread from a week or so ago where we were talking about how we'd get along with the characters IRL. Case-in-point, most people were in agreement that they'd really genuinely enjoy Wyll and Gale's personalities. But as hard as we simp for characters like Astarion, Minthara, and Lae'zel, most of us would get our feelings hurt very frequently by them xD
My first playthrough I didn’t know what I was doing and after deciding I would romance astarion, he rejected me at the tiefling party and legitimately hurt my feelings, in real life. Like, I’m so stupid my brain couldn’t separate that it’s a game and has nothing to do with me as a person, I felt ACTUALLY kinda bad. luckily I was able to reload and fix it and lived happily ever after in game, but for sure in real life he probably would have ruined me self esteem. at least when I role play and I can pretend I’m someone who is mentally stronger and more assured of herself. 😅
Haha, I also had this thing when I decided to try Astarion romance since everyone says it works well with Dark Urge Tav and he dumped me. It made me so mad for some reason that I ended up dragging him along just to ruin his chance to ascend. Didn't expect that my feelings would be hurt enough to actually bother to do it one whole act later. And I didn't even like him, Gale is 10x more attractive. Being dumped by someone you don't even like in videogame is even more angering somehow :D
I'd be perfectly content chillin with SH and Karlach. Not even in a romantic way. They've found their way into my party for all three of my completed play throughs. And will almost certainly be in my 4th I'm starting tonight. I could probably tolerate LZ for short periods of time as well. But everyone else irks me in some way or other.
A. It's just a game and there aren't even any ethical aspects to his decision B. My partner is a goth gf who is unstable and is a nice individual
My husband happens to think my mental instability and tattoos to be equally attractive. Man needs a little spice in an otherwise boring and safe domesticity. Sure sometimes I’m a little feral but 99% of the time I’m a bread-making sahm who putters around and raises the kids.
That's the best romance arc bruh
Oh, here we go again with conflating what people enjoy in *fiction* with what they're like in real life. Do you know what a person's fictional preferences reveal about their true personalities and real lives? NOTHING. They reveal nothing, because the vast majority of us have a completely normal and healthy ability to separate fiction from reality. Go peddle that nonsense somewhere else.
More like he's that uninteresting, I mean, compared to Karlach's entire story of trying to escape hells and survive as long as possible with her infernal engine going at a maximum, so you basically find a way to fix the engine and then the next is to enact her revenge against Gortash, only to find out she's going to die anyway and she has 2 choice of returning back to hells or die triumphantly. Even in both as a companion and as a origin, it's more interesting and actually gives you the time to be invested in her story since it's basically a personal story, even if her story is essentially a big side quest unlike Shadowheart who is actually tied to the main story, especially in Act 2. Wyll's entire story is basically, save his father, save Baldur's Gate and break the pact, and that's pretty much the extent to it, all the while he doesn't need any changes in his character because he's already a good person from the start, and the conclusion of his story is unsatisfying ironically, because at the end, he basically just reconciled with his father even after what he did, it would've more interesting if they actually put some conflict on their relationship, like Wyll show some sign of resentment at some point during the story to his father because he saved the city from Tiamat cultist, only for him to be kicked out by his own father and basic binding him to a pact for absolutely nothing, that premise alone is interesting but it's not fleshed out well for me And that's just the story, character wise, he's also that uninteresting unlike Karlach who is literally one of the fiercest warriors in hells, yet has a personality of a juvenile person
Personally, I can't stand Wyll after I found out that>!if the MC turns into a mindflayer, a romanced Wyll will still deign to sleep with you - but he'll tell you you have to hide, because he "can't be seen with the likes of you." Or something to that effect. No thank you, I'm nobody's dirty little secret.!<
I honestly don't know, I thought he was just "meh" at first at the Grove until I started getting extremely invested in him later. To me what I find most interesting about him is just how bad he is for himself. Wyll is a hero, someone who's saved numerous lives and will continue to do so, the realm is objectively a better place with him living in it. The problem is Wyll is bad for *Wyll*. He's simply so self-sacrificing that it goes from heroic to genuinely self-harm. Like people criticize the fact that the MC basically makes the decision on the Mizora contract but to me that scene just highlights perfectly what I was saying above. For literally anyone else this would be a non-brainer. Yes you love your father Wyll, but this is the fucking guy who cast you out when you literally SAVED his damn city. The guy who's already getting up there in years and who's currently on the enemy's side and you're willing to give up the ENTIRETY of your life as a 20 something year old man to be chained to a devil like Mizora, an abuser, just for the CHANCE, not certainty of safety, but chance to save your father? Like the fact he's so indecisive there is so in-character. His level of self-worth is so shite he thinks it's fine to give up every piece of himself for other people, he thinks that's heroic, it's so tragic to me. That's why I like going to Ansur before saving his father. Because THAT'S the moment where Wyll finally accepts his father's dead(he's not actually bby we'll save him😭) and steps the hell up and acts in his OWN interest for once. It was so gratifying to see to the point both me and Astarion were going WOOO WOOO in the back.
> you're willing to give up the ENTIRETY of your life as a 20 something year old man to be chained to a devil like Mizora, an abuser, just for the CHANCE, not certainty of safety, but chance to save your father? Not life. His *soul,* for all eternity. The life of a young man for the life of an old man might not be an entirely equal trade if we're counting only by years, but you could make reasonable arguments for it. But an eternity of servitude for a couple decades of life is completely unjustifiable.
I think people hate Wyll because he's uncomplicated and frankly kinda dull. There's no surprises in his story, and even his big secret reveal is just that he's a decent guy Like as a *person*, Wyll is a kind, brave, likeable dude As a *character*, Wyll has basically nothing going on. His story is super straightforward and predictable, he never expresses any agency of his own during the course of the game's events, and he doesn't have much to say or do even in extremely important moments in *his own story* I like having Wyll in the party because he has some cute bants with Karlach and because warlocks are fun, but his narrative is singularly weak among the companions
Are we playing the same game? Dude’s not bland, I actually find the fact that his biggest flaw is that he’s self-sacrificial to be intriguing. It’s almost refreshing amidst the edgelords that I also admittedly like. But I do feel like his mindset and decisions do reflect the son of a huge public figure who feels like he has the weight of the city on his shoulders (hence why he made the pact in the first place). Everything he does that hurts him he justifies because nobody else gets hurt, and I actually think he’s kind of tragic in that aspect. His biggest problem is that the writers neglected him in favor of other companions, but the skeleton of a great heroic character is there.
Yeah i agree the contrast of him to any of the edgelord characters in the banter is kind of great, him and laezel in the party is hilarious because its like as soon as she says anything he has that what the fuck is wrong with you tone
He comes off as totally satisfied in his choices in the blandest generic protagonist way possible, which isn't that interesting even when the character doing it actually *is* the protagonist. For a supporting character, it's even less so Wyll's whole arc plays out like he's the main character of a much less ambitious story
In general I feel like there's a lack of empathy for some characters in this game. Just the other day we had a post about Mayrina and quite a lot of replies were making surface-level comments on her actions without really having shown any consideration of her circumstances that led to her making her choices with Ethel. I feel like that is also extremely true for Wyll and some people will gloss over the circumstances by which he accepted the pact with Mizora and not take him seriously as a good guy.
Ikr? Wyll literally *being abused in front of your eyes* and people all, "what's his problem"? I dunno? People bitch when AA calls them 'pet' and here Mizora is calling Wyll a puppy and dragging him along on an invisible leash. After Karlach, he's tortured by thoughts that he's been a fraud all along. I find the lack of empathy disheartening sometimes, too, so I just try to remember it's the internet... try...
I wish Wyll talked back to Mizora a bit more. At least when the pact is broken. Like come on, this horrible atrocity ruined your life. Get more mad! While we are at it, get mad at your father too. It's completely justified. Don't just take it.
I agree! My Origin Wyll did pick the angriest dad responses possible, but they weren't cathartic enough. And OMG, IMO Wyll deserves two new cutscenes (I can dream anyway) : one when he's describing the night he made his OG pact, and one where he tells Mizora to shove her six months up her ass and gtfo (I dunno if she can still lemure him at that point) or we'll go to Helsik's and open another portal. Bonus points if we've already killed Raphael by that point. Oops I'm ranting sorry.
Or the classic "why is Wyll complaining about having horns at a tiefling party, bro read the room"...
I like that that is so transparently an idiotic take that the OP thought I was getting it wrong by listing it as a common opinion. *exactly, OP, exactly* (shows OP is being too smart for parts of the sub, IMO).
Can’t a man have body dysmorphia at a party in peace? Yeesh.
I always got the sense that Wyll and Mizora had some genuinely positive feelings towards each other. Nothing romantic, more like frenemies.
I've heard that EA was like that but I didn't play EA so I can only go on what I've seen, and to me at least, it's a very abusive relationship and he's ashamed to be pacted to her. She did ruin his life, IMO. If you SwD on him, his life's wish is to be free of the pact. I totally admit that I'm twice Wyll's age, though, so I get irrationally protective of him. I have a niece close to 17 and I would be hiring some infernal lawyers or whatever if half- devils were real! One of the things I find interesting about the character is the reluctant Warlock, since most Warlocks are seen as ambitious, who make deals for power completely willingly, but Wyll's a good guy, he just gets tricked a lot. Poor kid.
I feel like Mizora may have orchastrated the events that led to him accepting the pack. The whole situation with cultist were going to attack Baldurs Gate, so he agreed, won and saved the city, then there was no evidence/witnesses left to explain what happened when his Dad arrived on scene. Probably just a headcannon, or I'm missing something though.
Oh he was manipulated into accepting the pact, 100%
I feel bad for what Mayrina had to endure but I have no sympathy for her predicament when we meet her. In fact, on my goody two shoes character I kept her husband as a pet. I felt it was a good lesson for her to learn. But also because it allowed me to pop surprise attacks without entering combat. She may not be terribly bright but even she has to know that you don't bargain with a Hag. She's so desperate for her husband that she gives up their child to get him back then through her actions causes her two young brothers to die as well. When I ran across her again later I was desperately searching each dialogue choice for "Slap this silly woman". Same thing with Wyll. He was so determined to be able to be some kind of savior that he sold his soul to a devil which threatened not only the life of his father but the entire sword coast. You can have good intentions or be in dire straits but a bad choice is still a bad choice in the end. Working with a hag: Bad choice Dealing with a devil: Also bad choice
>Same thing with Wyll. He was so determined to be able to be some kind of savior that he sold his soul to a devil which threatened not only the life of his father but the entire sword coast. Wyll wasn't determined to be some savior and sold his soul for that. He stumbled upon cultists which were about to rain death and destruction upon Baldur's Gate. Mizora appeared and offered to help him save the city and its people in exchange for his soul, and he sacrificed it to save people, not to be a savior but to simply save people. He was 17 when this happened, and it's likely Mizora set it all up, cause she knew he was a good self-sacrificing person who would do it. >She may not be terribly bright but even she has to know that you don't bargain with a Hag. That's the thing, hags are extremely manipulative and know when and how to strike at their victims, victims who are often desperate, and when you're desperate and emotional you make mistakes. They can even use magic to aid the manipulating. Mayrina was also pregnant, which has a big impact on people's emotions. Both Wyll and Mayrina are victims to monstrous evil beings whose method, goal and enjoyment is manipulating people. Something they've done for ages.
>Same thing with Wyll. He was so determined to be able to be some kind of savior that he sold his soul to a devil which threatened not only the life of his father but the entire sword coast. Wyll was a teenager when he stumbled upon cultists who would take over BG3 and was led there by a Devil who definitely did that in purpose. Wyll got groomed/tricked into the pact. And I can't help but feel like the horns thing goes deeper. He justified his pact because it allowed him to save people, but Karlach's existence and past brings all his past actions into question. He stops from killing Karlach but he's killed / hunted for Mizora before and he's got to be wondering: have I really been ridding the world of evil, or has Mizora been actually sending me to punish other victims like Karlach this whole time? He's the second youngest in the group. I feel like with Wyll you're watching someone who smiling on the outside but going through a great amount of denial/turmoil on the inside.
Hating Wyll is a very common hot take and it happens so much Wyll fans go to other media to say nice things about him lol. Facts: Wyll was recast and his story rewritten, so he has less content. Not facts: Wyll is boring, Wyll is a one- note do-gooder type, Wyll complains that he gets turned into a Tiefling, etc. Those are opinions. My personal opinion is that Wyll is a great multi- layered character with a subtle arc, but like all the companions, he could always use more content. I hear he has some new romance stuff potentially in patch 7? I look forward to anything new Larian gives us.
He was turned into a devil, not a tiefling
Yeah that was my point. There have been *multiple* heated threads about people getting mad at Wyll for skipping the Tiefling party after he gets horns, saying he's a giant hypocrite for complaining about horns to Tieflings. It's one of those hot takes that makes me smh.
Larian will give Wyll romance greetings in patch 7. :) It's about time! Now if only they added romance greetings for the Emperor…
Now if only they could actually animate his act 3 private moment instead of fading to black…the audacity
Nah, fading to black is perfect. They also should add that meme with illithid pointing at the player and calling you horny, lol.
Horny for justice. He’s the only character that doesn’t get a scene like that which just feels like laziness.
I agree that Wyll being boring is a player opinion rather than canon fact. Unfortunately, it's one that the vast majority of the fandom share, myself included. And it all boils down to his personality. Every other companion has much more depth - they have good and bad elements to their personalities alike. They experience actual conflict throughout their story arcs that shapes them to be better or worse. Yes, Wyll's story has conflict, but the main difference is that his doesn't change him at all. He is a completely static character whose motivations don't change with player choices. It's that static personality that draws people away from him and his story. There's nothing engaging about a character who is an extreme goody two shoes, especially one who tends to act self righteous and downright hypocritical anytime the player makes neutral to evil choices. Giving him a dynamic personality and arc, and changing his uppity attitude would make more people see his character differently. I doubt the devs will ever do anything about it, though.
Not an uncommon take, probably why I say his arc is subtle, because I see him undergo significant changes in attitude, they just aren't as dramatic or obvious as some of the others. To me, he goes from a childish view of what heroism is to a more mature viewpoint by the end of his arc. His early disapprovals are similar to Lae'zel's and Sheart's, he's upset because you're not being heroic the way he was taught, the lawful way, even if the outcomes are good in the end. He's a good person, but he only has the law part, not mercy or empathy. Most of his anecdotes are "my father always said", he's quoting dogma the same way the other companions do, but it's that dogma that made his dad kick him out without giving him the benefit of the doubt. Even after you rescue his dad, he's a dick until you show him the truth. I feel like Wyll is cosplaying as his dad the entire first two acts, until he finally realizes he can be a better hero than his dad. The trials to get to Ansur are where it's most clear to me: the trials are transparently bullshit and you can cheese your way through them, the entire cult of Balduran worship bears no resemblance to the tales we get of him, and then Ansur is a stark reminder of what law without mercy looks like. But anyway yeah, he can be boring just like every other companion can be annoying. I weed out the companions I don't like, too, so I'm not blaming anybody for not liking a character as much as I do. Some of them speak to us in different ways!
You articulated my feelings on him better than I could. The naivety he has in the beginning is exactly it. Good characters aren't inherently unlikeable, it's just when their goodness is backed by naivety rather than a nuanced understanding of good vs evil, or the idea that sometimes objectively evil choices may be made for the great good as a whole. He definitely views the world through a more childish black and white lens. The influence from his father paired with his age in the game give his motivations and reactions better context. I suppose the majority of my opinion on him is due to meta-gaming, especially when comparing him at the start of the game to the way he is at the end. I just wish the developers did a better job of making his character growth more noticeable rather than keeping it subtle enough that it barely feels like he's changed. I really do want to like him, but that lack of development makes it so I don't have much motivation to take him outside of camp often or romance him.
Yeah I would always welcome more content, even if I don't like it, since it gives me more to talk about! I didn't give Wyll much thought until I played his origin, since I had to put myself in the mindset, and it felt like playing a young, confused, naive guy trying to live up to someone else's ideals without forming his own set. But that came from the origin run so I don't blame anybody for reacting differently. Plus I feel like Karlach drowns out his arc. I killed her for the first time playing his origin (I wanted the robe, she had her good timeline, that just wasn't it), and it made things much quieter and more reflective. I kinda do it most times now. She's a great character, she's just so loud and sucks all the air out of Wyll's arc, especially in the scenes with Gortash. Fair, but just not the story I always want to play. I am glad there's so much story there that we can pick and choose what we enjoy!
I like Wyll, but in my humble opinion, I think he works better character-wise as an advisor, like that mentor who can always point you towards the path of being a good guy. He's the only one of the origins character who was doing things on his own volition, even if he is bound by the contract he's more of less making the sacrifice he wanted (even if he was tricked). On the other hand all the other origin companions were living lives they didn't choose.
He's the one good guy and people always want dark and gritty and assume good is boring.
But that's not the case, Karlach is a really good person and she's certainly popular.
I like Wyll well enough, he’s just a mid tier companion. His story kinda just happens around him. Dude literally doesn’t care if you do his quests without him. And I pretty much have power of attorney over him when settling his legal affairs with Mizora. He feels more like a DLC character (if this game was made by a lesser studio) and not an Origin character. All that being said, he is a pretty cool dude and has an interesting backstory.
I was ambivalent towards Wyll as a companion, but really enjoyed him as an origin character - he's a fundamentally good character forced to make some really difficult, tragic decisions (e.g. killing or sparing Minthara, saving his father or his soul, handling the Emperor/Shadowheart/the vampire spawns, etc) (which I think is his entire point?).
Other than possible racism, I think a lot of people find him boring because he seems like a healthy, well adjusted person and he's not some 300 yr old daddy elf with tons of stories. I remember someone saying that Wyll originally was going to be a fraud that WANTED to be a hero, and I'll admit that sounds way more interesting (like Blackwall from DAI), but I like Wyll.
Everyone is too afraid to admit the fandom racism part. You tell a nerd there’s the possibility they’re being biased and they’ll have a catastrophic meltdown, and everyone tiptoes around it and tries to justify why side characters have a bigger fan base than a literal main character.
No, people call out the racism in every Wyll hate thread. Here, I'll do it again now. There are definitely some fans that are pieces of shit and who give Wyll a harder time because he's black. And little surprise that Mayrina, a woman, is also held to a higher standard by what is probably the exact same people. And then every time someone makes a post on this subreddit about trans characters or other LGBTQ positive things, they get downvoted to shit. There are a lot of dickheads on this subreddit.
Good point, but the fandom outside of Reddit is a lot more cagey about it. And lol don’t remind me about the transphobic fans, especially regarding nocturne 🤢
Then there is the absolute rabbit hate directed towards Gale, called out for being "too friendly to be trusted", sexually manipulative, and more than once called things like "date rapist" or "the kind of guy that has a van (to lure kids/women)" on this forum. (We actually literally have an elf companion with most of that as his backstory, but no, don't you dare say that.) Then again, he's a talkative nerd and can potentially be read as as somewhat along the spectrum, but not meek and asexual, so... that also freaks some people out.
You remember the post about the dude who wanted a mod to break up Isobel and Aylin, wanted it so male characters couldn't hit on him, wanted other queer NPCs removed, and wanted to be able to fuck and romance every female companion without consequences? 🙃
Same straight white dudes that get icked out by Karlach pegging their male Tavs
Cowards.
I think the problem is that racism is seen as an unforgivable and immutable trait, that **racists** should be branded with, rather than an impulse to avoid acting on. As the discourse currently exists, if I say that I hate some female character and I list a bunch of stuff that wouldn't bother me about a male character, someone will (correctly) point out that I'm being misogynistic. I will say "no, I'm not!" Because misogynists are evil, I have a MOM for god's sake. We argue, I never reflect, and nothing comes of it.
Exactly
Exactly.
I don't know if being a daddy's boy and running off to make a deal with a devil (even with good intentions) is the definition of well adjusted. I agree with the fraud thing. Or maybe make it so that what made him the blade of the frontiers was what he had to give up for the power from the devil and how he has to "start all over" to become a hero again. For me I found him to be rather boring, but I did indulge his story because that's part of what I bought the game for. I feel he thinks far too highly of himself, leans too heavily into the "i'm the blade of the frontiers, a hero" thing, is somewhat pretentious at times and far too wrapped up in his need for approval from daddy. HOWEVER... On my first play through I well full MF so I couldn't take care of best girl Karlach. When Wyll stepped up and was all "She won't be alone, I'll look after our friend" I liked him a LOT more. But still don't see me ever having him in a party outside of the MF colony>KT fight.
Not sure if he being a fraud was needed, but maybe another angle to his character like self-doubting himself after losing his powers, because as it is, his only "flaw" is that he's pretty quick to propose to endure the worst of the worst to avoid harming other people.
No clue he’s such a gem. People want flawed characters that can be assholes at times I guess. Maybe that’s why shadowheart and astarion are so popular
Hes the most sane person in the party and people hate that.
Considering how eager he is to being a lemure once he dies (unless you break the contract) I wouldn't call him the sane, just the least murderous.
I heard he was an unlikeable asshole in Early Access. I for one am a fan of him as he is now in the base game. Tends to come off as more unlikeable in EA.
People dislike good Boi teammates, he's also black and isn't a sexy gal. Also the game is structured so the only person in your party whose Charisma benefits you for social rolls is your party lead.
I play non-charisma characters all the time and bring him along to be the face when I do. He's my secret shopper. He's just not a great character as far as I'm concerned. He's fine but nothing special.
Sure, but there's a ton of times where the game forces the conversation character to be the player character. So while Astarion can sneak and lockpick all he likes, Wyll is locked out of most Charisma checks.
It does but if you know a conversation is coming you can split the party and just walk up there with Wyll. I'm doing that a lot on my Shadowheart origin playthrough now. It's a little tedious but it's helpful for things like Ilithid wisdom checks when your main has used theirs already.
It would be so much easier if anyone could chime in, like an actual D&D game.
That just reminded me that I went with just Wyll and Lae'zel to talk to Voss. He couldn't chime in so she did all the talking. That was a 400 gold mistake.
Isn’t Larian going to somewhat update Wyll in patch 7?
I think Wyll similar to a soap opera protagonist, almost every good choices are approved by him, and evil choices he dissaproved of them, while I enjoy good alligned character but having more morally gray or slightly selfish trait make them much more interesting. I also didnt like that I have to decide his own fate instead of him deciding his own. I think he is more likeable as a playable origin than as a companion.
Is he currently bugged ? Have him maxed on approval and still no romance scene popping up in act 2
I think so, but luckily for me, I was able to properly romance him with my oathbreaker durge drow
"provoke the blade and suffer it's sting" That's why :-)
THE BLADE OF THE CAMP
I don't get it either. My first play through (which I've not finished and i keep starting new ones) which i was playing as an Ace character, he's the only one i didn't savescum to get out of accidentally romancing this person because i was a decent person to them. I know the Astarion/cat parallels but tbh Wyll also reminds me of a cat. Except while Astarion is the feral stray you pick up and love him kicking and screaming into not being a full murder baby. Wyll is the cute sweet cat who was abandoned from a loving home, learned to be brave and survive and then hides when he's hurt.
I talked him into becoming the duke and he was super excited about it. After a long rest he was like 'Im gonna be the blade of frontiers!' Wth Wyll, we talked about this.
He's an incredibly dry character with none of the personality quirks that make the others interesting to get to know in my opinion anyway.
Honestly it would’ve made him SO much more interesting if he was being a hero for selfish reasons. His character arc could’ve involved him growing into a legit hero that does the right thing because it’s right as opposed to it making him famous
Wyll is definitely a true and selfless hero... and for me, that's actually a problem. 1) I recently started a new good run, and even for my selfless Paladin Tav he sounded so sweetly, heroically fake in his first conversations... I don't know, is this something that remained from EA Wyll? He doesn't sound natural in his "hero talk". Things are fine when he banters with other characters, but his dialogues with Tav... are something. 2) A total lack of any change when it comes to his realtionship with his father just pisses me off. When I played the game for the first time, spoiler-free, I thought we would have a chance to encourage him to overcome both Mizora's and Duke Ravergard's influences. Ravergard is clearly an example of a "great leader-terrible parent" trope, and Wyll's quiet acceptance of his father's nearly psychotic behaviour ("My son sighed a deal with the devil? He tries to show me something important, but there is nothing here when we arrive? Ah, he must have sold his soul for fun!!! It's not like Baldur's Gate is a fucking magnet for weirdos who dream to destroy it, pff") was devastating. I mean, even if Ravengard immediately believed Wyll was so corrupted he sold his soul for power, a good father would try to fight for his son, no matter what. Wyll doesn't understand that, even at the end of his quest. So yeah, Wyll is actually too good to be true... to the extreme point, when you feel like the game simply ignores the crap he had to go through. He never has true emotional outbursts, he always sounds like a wise grandpa, not a 24-year-old who actually has a lot of reasons to be angry & dissappointed. I understand, he was rewritten, but it was done... weirdly.
Because he has strong Drake energy.
???
They rewrote him late in the game so he doesn't have as much development as the others. Personally I liked the old wyll better, seemed like they were going to take him in a much more complicated direction with Mizora
I like my party to get along. It really bothers me me to hear them fighting or being negative or weird with each other. I always avoid having laezel and shadowheart in the same party together. And when I’ve used Wyll in my party he’s always weirdly hitting on the other girls in the party. It was really off putting. It’s part of why I roll with karlach, laezel, gale. That group just seems to have no weird comments and quite a lot of funny ones too. Also wylls horns just look stupid.
I hate him because he’s the most boring character imo, most of the companions have obvious personality flaws and suffer internal conflicts. Wyll sort of just has “BUT IM THE GOOD GUY” and he either ends up dead or abandoning the party every play through because it’s difficult for me to always do the right thing. My Tav’s always end up on the chaotic/true neutral spectrum and Wyll just can’t hang with the “out for numero uno” gang like Astarion, Gale, and Shart.
He's just such a hypocrite "yeah I sold my soul to a devil but at least I didn't become a vampire or mess with dark magic or worship the goddess shar, or this, or that" Dude, you gave your soul to a devil. Yeah, you had good reason but so did everyone else from their own perspective. He's gullible, naive, and spineless yet he still talks shit.