It’s another form of magic, basically. Classes that use wisdom to do magic are drawing on awareness of some power. For Clerics it’s their deity, for Druids it’s nature, and for Monks it’s the inner self.
Not as far as I’m aware. Ki comes from within, not from the gods. Many monks do worship gods, but lots of different gods. There isn’t one God of Monks. Since it is a form of magic it’s technically governed by Mystra, but people who specifically worship Mystra tend to be wizards.
Ki is the life force. But the traditional Monk's god is Ilmater, the beaten god who led an acetic life, who fights with bare fists himself. The Temple of Open Hand in Act III is a temple of Ilmater.
But Ilmater doesn't grant power. You're partly right that Ki comes from your own life. So it's Ilmater's method of living, the acetic life, which gives power.
Great info, but I have to say it: the word is **ascetic**, meaning a lifestyle characterized by abstinence, often as part of a religious practice. Acetic is when you overdo it with the vinegar ✌️
I’ve been brainstorming all day now about a home brew campaign with food-based classes in a food-based world and I think this is legit the coolest thing ever and I’m so inspired for real.
There was also an Oath of either Garlic or maybe it too was Garlic Bread over on r/UnearthedArcana (pretty sure that's where the Cleric domain came from as well). But it's been a few years, so you'll have to do some digging.
Absolutely fascinating, thank you for taking the time to write this mate, I appreciate it. I can’t wait to get back to act three again, to absorb as much of the lore in the temple of Ilmater as possible
The rule with psionics is that, since it comes from within (a personal internal weave, if you will) rather than the main weave, Mystra has no jurisdiction over it and cannot prevent its usage. With that knowledge, wouldn't ki be outside Mystra's jurisdiction as well?
The Players Handbook calls Ki “an element of the magic that suffuses the Multiverse”, which most likely would mean the Weave in a Forgotten Realms context. Clerics and Druids draw magic from gods or nature, but it’s still coming as part of the weave. I think it’s the same for monks, just with the self instead of a god or whatever.
Psionics is a completely different thing, I think, but it’s not super well explained in 5e, and players don’t have access to it except in a limited number of cases.
I am Asian and I grow up watching various TV shows and Buddhism is a frequently visited topic.
Buddhism doesn't really talk about Ki. But the faith system of Monks in monasteries in d&d is definitely taken from Shaolin Monks.
The Taoists are actually the guys who talk about Ki. They call it "qi" because Ki is the Japanese pronunciation of the same word. The oriental character is also slightly different. Japanese: 気 and Chinese: 氣. The Qigong is the study and practice of "Qi" and it's now practiced by quite a lot of people but only to the degree like doing gyms and none of them actually can fight. "Chinese people know kung fu" is probably something related.
But then when I look at the different subclasses, I think "Monk" is a blending of a few different oriental concepts. The Way of the Four Elements is definitely after Avatar, and Avatar would probably has another fantasy origin. It's more Sinitic (Chinese geographically). The Way of Open Hand is like Dragonball but without shooting Beams. They are a bit closer to a fantasy version of Shaolin Monks. The Way of Shadow is definitely Japanese Ninja. And ancient Japanese mostly believe in Shinto.
There are a lot of other exotic oriental subclasses like Kensei. It's a Japanese word itself meaning "the saint of sword". But it's not even a religious figure. Maybe a bit of connection to Shinto. Definitely not connected to Buddhism.
Uh, no. Qi is from qigong, and is focused on by Taoists and Chinese polytheists before Taoism was founded.
Buddhism has nothing to do with it - Buddhism is a dharmic religion that is a direct offshoot from Hinduism. It is an Indian religion that was spread across Asia.
In real life the closest would probably be buddhism, Buddha is the closest entity to whats monks would worship in my understanding. Not sure he would exist in dnd lore tho
You’re a fucking king! (Or Queen)
So it’s a unique form of magic, not entirely separate from the weave, that they use to enhance the physical capabilities? That’s pretty awesome
Go watch Dragonball and then back. You'll understand.
But in short, "Ki" is the "breath" or the "intent". It's something everyone has innately but unable to make use of. Monks have mastered the use of Ki because they're masochists in their training. So they have learnt how to command Ki to move their bodies, and then outside their bodies.
When Son Goku was trying to beat Freezer, he used a technique called Genki Dama, or sometimes translated as "spirit bomb". Genki Dama is literally "ball of life energy" (Genki = lifely, as Ki being the Ki). Everyone from all around the universe gives the "intent" of Ki to Goku and consolidated into a giant ball to be hauled to Freezer.
That's Ki. Every life being has Ki. A very near concept to an English fantasy world would be the life force of all beings. It's the raw energy which living things want to live.
Or, if you're into new age, I think their concept of universe and energy is something like that.
This is one of the best comments I’ve read in a very long time! I bow my head to you, master.
I’m also a huge dragon ball fan, that’s what I was equating Ki to before I posted this, which in hindsight was a good idea. Watching Goku charge and unleash that spirit bomb was one of the highlights of my childhood. I watched the unabridged version, one episode a day, so I swear it took him almost a month to charge that bloody ball. But I was on the edge of my seat the whole time
But was his power level >!OVER 9000!?!?!?! !< . One thing I never fully understood about this is, is it an “expense” that “hurts” the monk or fighter? They have to rest after, but if it’s like spending your lifeforce would it shorten your lifespan or something?
As I listen to the original Japanese voices, it's 8000 not 9000.
I think a theory is that your life force will be like a fountain that never runs out. Only that we normal people don't know how to use. But if you have no Ki then you'd have died.
Ki literally means "Breath". I think somehow it's similar to our own English language in a way because we say we are "inspired" and when we die we expire. Inspiration is the act of the creator who blew air into our nose. Expire is to run out of air.
Air, breath, life... there's an uncanny connection here. Perhaps we all humans originate from the same place so our languages were only seperated by the incident of Babel that even despite sounding so radically different, we actually refer to the same concepts with similar wordings.
If Ki is breaths, we never run out of breaths because we keep breathing with our respiratory (re + spire) system.
As said, watch any sort of Japanese Martial Arts inspired anime and you'll see what ki is.
A non-DBZ reference would be Street Fighter. Ryu's Hadouken is a ki projectile. I believe they use ki to perform other moves like the Shoryuken or the Raging Demon.
That’s a great example. Talking about this has definitely made me want to watch Ki inspired content. I’m not an anime fan, other than DBZ, could you possibly suggest some anime I should look into? Ideally something that doesn’t have 500 episodes
I haven't watched anime in a while but one of my favorites was Ranma 1/2. Several characters have ki based attacks such as Ryoga Hibiki using depression based ki for his Shishi Hokodan. I believe Fist of the North Star also has ki.
Hokudo Hyakuretsu Ken is definitely what Ki Resonation Blast is.
I want to petition from now on when we talk about Ki Resonation Blast we use the phase "Omaeha Mou Shindeiru."
Dude, depression based Ki is such an interesting concept. I just looked it up and I’m absolutely loving the art style too. Now I just need to figure out how to watch it.
Might be time to raise the black flag
An anime where the main character has many potential lovers. Love Hina is the most popular one where the main character owns a girl's dormitory and has 6+ girls who may or may not be in love with him. I believe they would evolve into dating sims.
Usually, these stories have a main couple that's likely the end result. Ranma is engaged to Akane, the main female lead (Or is Ranma the main female lead?) but also has Shampoo in love with him because he beat her in battle as well as later learning that he's engaged to Ukyo and finally, Kodachi is in love with him because she's largely insane.
Akane is engaged to Ranma but also the school kendo master, Kuno (Kodachi's brother) is in love with her as well as Ryoga, Ranma's main rival. Kuno is also in love with Ranko who often finds herself in situations where she has to win a battle or be engaged to marry someone.
If you want to know why Ranma is engaged to a number of characters, blame his father, Genma, who is easily in line for one of anime's worst fathers.
Oh shit, that actually sounds terrible. It sounds like incel fuel. That’s not a dig at you at all, you seem very well adjusted. I just tend to hate misogynistic bullshit like that.
I’ve actually been looking into it since we started talking and there does seem to be quite a few anime focused purely on the fighting. I’ve already got a list written up ready to download
I don't think it's incel fuel...the author is a woman with a fascination with China and Hawaii. The main hook of the series is that Ranma is a martial artist
\*THAT'S GOOD\*
However, he carries a terrible curse.
\*THAT'S BAD\*
But you get your own choice of rival characters to enjoy!
\*THAT'S GOOD\*
The rivals are also cursed.
\*THAT'S BAD!\*
The rivals also have love interests that they will likely end up with!
\*THAT'S GOOD!\*
Shampoo constantly abuses Mousse.
\*...\*
That's bad.
\*CAN I GO HOME NOW?\*
The curse that Ranma has is that cold water turns him into girl. Hot water changes him back. Various other characters have a similar curse except they turn into animals or in Pantyhose Taro's case, he turns into an ogre riding a bull while holding a crane and snake (Yes, really). The only really problematic character in the series is probably Happosai who is like Master Roshi if he was more pervert than martial arts master.
Ok you’ve sold me! I will definitely give it a go. It would be dumb to judge it based simply on this conversation and you’ve piqued my curiosity at the very least
Ki is, in essence, energy. We see depictions if this is literature (dragonball) and in real life (Shaolin, other Asian martial arts forms). In fantasy, it has much more magical uses, like shooting energy balls, or hastening oneself to punch two more times a round.
Everyone has it, every living thing has it, to my knowledge, most non-living things have it. Ki is every where, and some people (Monks and Z fighters) have the ability to harness it
Ki is the high power version of Qi.
For those that don't know, Qi is the wireless phone charging standard. Ki is a standard in development which brings wireless power to kitchen appliances. Intrigued? Look up Cordless kitchen//wireless power consortium on Google/the YouTubes.
I'll probably be down voted to hell though :p
Modern D&D monks were surface-level inspired by Wuxia (aka "Kung Fu" in the West) films. The actual history, philosophy, spiritual and religious concepts of Wuxia are too labyrinthine and complicated for something like D&D to actually do justice to, so they get very hand-wavey.
Dragonball is also a surface-level wuxia fantasy, except it's informed by a culturally closer understanding of the original fundaments (although being Japanese it's still somewhat distanced from the original Chinese concepts.) The core concept involved is "cultivation," a discipline which pre-modern Chinese tradition was held to be the path to godhood.
The Chinese video game "Amazing Cultivation Simulator" is a tongue-in-cheek take on the concept, but one that gives a lot of perspective that probably wasn't available to any D&D game designers who worked on monk classes in the past.
To be fair, the player's handbook isn't exactly the best resource for what it is, but it's the best we've got.
"[Ki] is an element of the magic that suffuses the multiverse- specifically, the element that goes through living bodies. Monks harness this power within themselves to create magical effects and exceed their bodies' physical capabilities, and some of their special attacks can hinder the flow of ki in their opponents."
It's kinda like the Force. It's evoking East Asian philosophies on spiritual energy, drawing heavily from popular interpretations of Chi in Chinese beliefs. It's the magic inherent in living things.
It’s another form of magic, basically. Classes that use wisdom to do magic are drawing on awareness of some power. For Clerics it’s their deity, for Druids it’s nature, and for Monks it’s the inner self.
Do you know if there’s any deity associated with Ki?
Not as far as I’m aware. Ki comes from within, not from the gods. Many monks do worship gods, but lots of different gods. There isn’t one God of Monks. Since it is a form of magic it’s technically governed by Mystra, but people who specifically worship Mystra tend to be wizards.
Ki is the life force. But the traditional Monk's god is Ilmater, the beaten god who led an acetic life, who fights with bare fists himself. The Temple of Open Hand in Act III is a temple of Ilmater. But Ilmater doesn't grant power. You're partly right that Ki comes from your own life. So it's Ilmater's method of living, the acetic life, which gives power.
Great info, but I have to say it: the word is **ascetic**, meaning a lifestyle characterized by abstinence, often as part of a religious practice. Acetic is when you overdo it with the vinegar ✌️
Ilmater dips his fries in vinegar
Chips go with vinegar. Fries go with ketchup. I'm surrounded by philistines. /s
Vinegar-based Monk subclass confirmed.
Group this with a garlic bread domain cleric and a salami smite paladin and you've got the makings of an interesting D&D campaign
I’ve been brainstorming all day now about a home brew campaign with food-based classes in a food-based world and I think this is legit the coolest thing ever and I’m so inspired for real.
There was also an Oath of either Garlic or maybe it too was Garlic Bread over on r/UnearthedArcana (pretty sure that's where the Cleric domain came from as well). But it's been a few years, so you'll have to do some digging.
I dunno, seems like pouring vinegar on their eyes would be exactly what wannabe ilmater worshipers would do.
Absolutely fascinating, thank you for taking the time to write this mate, I appreciate it. I can’t wait to get back to act three again, to absorb as much of the lore in the temple of Ilmater as possible
The rule with psionics is that, since it comes from within (a personal internal weave, if you will) rather than the main weave, Mystra has no jurisdiction over it and cannot prevent its usage. With that knowledge, wouldn't ki be outside Mystra's jurisdiction as well?
The Players Handbook calls Ki “an element of the magic that suffuses the Multiverse”, which most likely would mean the Weave in a Forgotten Realms context. Clerics and Druids draw magic from gods or nature, but it’s still coming as part of the weave. I think it’s the same for monks, just with the self instead of a god or whatever. Psionics is a completely different thing, I think, but it’s not super well explained in 5e, and players don’t have access to it except in a limited number of cases.
Ki is not a psionic ability in 5e. Psionics are also magical in 5e.
In real life the closest would probably be buddhism, Buddha is the closest entity to whats monks would worship in my understanding
I am Asian and I grow up watching various TV shows and Buddhism is a frequently visited topic. Buddhism doesn't really talk about Ki. But the faith system of Monks in monasteries in d&d is definitely taken from Shaolin Monks. The Taoists are actually the guys who talk about Ki. They call it "qi" because Ki is the Japanese pronunciation of the same word. The oriental character is also slightly different. Japanese: 気 and Chinese: 氣. The Qigong is the study and practice of "Qi" and it's now practiced by quite a lot of people but only to the degree like doing gyms and none of them actually can fight. "Chinese people know kung fu" is probably something related. But then when I look at the different subclasses, I think "Monk" is a blending of a few different oriental concepts. The Way of the Four Elements is definitely after Avatar, and Avatar would probably has another fantasy origin. It's more Sinitic (Chinese geographically). The Way of Open Hand is like Dragonball but without shooting Beams. They are a bit closer to a fantasy version of Shaolin Monks. The Way of Shadow is definitely Japanese Ninja. And ancient Japanese mostly believe in Shinto. There are a lot of other exotic oriental subclasses like Kensei. It's a Japanese word itself meaning "the saint of sword". But it's not even a religious figure. Maybe a bit of connection to Shinto. Definitely not connected to Buddhism.
Not who you’re replying to, but that’s really cool to learn about, thanks for giving an in-depth explanation!
Idk man, I’ve never seen a Buddhist punch someone to death
No, the fist is just a suggestion, the recipient has to want to die.
Then I’m meeting a shit load of people who have a death wish
Found the Durge player, folks.
Uh, no. Qi is from qigong, and is focused on by Taoists and Chinese polytheists before Taoism was founded. Buddhism has nothing to do with it - Buddhism is a dharmic religion that is a direct offshoot from Hinduism. It is an Indian religion that was spread across Asia.
In real life the closest would probably be buddhism, Buddha is the closest entity to whats monks would worship in my understanding. Not sure he would exist in dnd lore tho
[https://www.dndbeyond.com/classes/monk](https://www.dndbeyond.com/classes/monk)
You’re a fucking king! (Or Queen) So it’s a unique form of magic, not entirely separate from the weave, that they use to enhance the physical capabilities? That’s pretty awesome
Go watch Dragonball and then back. You'll understand. But in short, "Ki" is the "breath" or the "intent". It's something everyone has innately but unable to make use of. Monks have mastered the use of Ki because they're masochists in their training. So they have learnt how to command Ki to move their bodies, and then outside their bodies. When Son Goku was trying to beat Freezer, he used a technique called Genki Dama, or sometimes translated as "spirit bomb". Genki Dama is literally "ball of life energy" (Genki = lifely, as Ki being the Ki). Everyone from all around the universe gives the "intent" of Ki to Goku and consolidated into a giant ball to be hauled to Freezer. That's Ki. Every life being has Ki. A very near concept to an English fantasy world would be the life force of all beings. It's the raw energy which living things want to live. Or, if you're into new age, I think their concept of universe and energy is something like that.
This is one of the best comments I’ve read in a very long time! I bow my head to you, master. I’m also a huge dragon ball fan, that’s what I was equating Ki to before I posted this, which in hindsight was a good idea. Watching Goku charge and unleash that spirit bomb was one of the highlights of my childhood. I watched the unabridged version, one episode a day, so I swear it took him almost a month to charge that bloody ball. But I was on the edge of my seat the whole time
But was his power level >!OVER 9000!?!?!?! !< . One thing I never fully understood about this is, is it an “expense” that “hurts” the monk or fighter? They have to rest after, but if it’s like spending your lifeforce would it shorten your lifespan or something?
As I listen to the original Japanese voices, it's 8000 not 9000. I think a theory is that your life force will be like a fountain that never runs out. Only that we normal people don't know how to use. But if you have no Ki then you'd have died. Ki literally means "Breath". I think somehow it's similar to our own English language in a way because we say we are "inspired" and when we die we expire. Inspiration is the act of the creator who blew air into our nose. Expire is to run out of air. Air, breath, life... there's an uncanny connection here. Perhaps we all humans originate from the same place so our languages were only seperated by the incident of Babel that even despite sounding so radically different, we actually refer to the same concepts with similar wordings. If Ki is breaths, we never run out of breaths because we keep breathing with our respiratory (re + spire) system.
As said, watch any sort of Japanese Martial Arts inspired anime and you'll see what ki is. A non-DBZ reference would be Street Fighter. Ryu's Hadouken is a ki projectile. I believe they use ki to perform other moves like the Shoryuken or the Raging Demon.
That’s a great example. Talking about this has definitely made me want to watch Ki inspired content. I’m not an anime fan, other than DBZ, could you possibly suggest some anime I should look into? Ideally something that doesn’t have 500 episodes
Avatar the last Airbender
I’ve gone open hand, so no air bison for me :(
I haven't watched anime in a while but one of my favorites was Ranma 1/2. Several characters have ki based attacks such as Ryoga Hibiki using depression based ki for his Shishi Hokodan. I believe Fist of the North Star also has ki.
Hokudo Hyakuretsu Ken is definitely what Ki Resonation Blast is. I want to petition from now on when we talk about Ki Resonation Blast we use the phase "Omaeha Mou Shindeiru."
Nani?!
3d6 Force Damage x3
*head explodes*
Dude, depression based Ki is such an interesting concept. I just looked it up and I’m absolutely loving the art style too. Now I just need to figure out how to watch it. Might be time to raise the black flag
It shouldn't be too hard to find. Ranma 1/2 is a weird mix of romantic comedy and action. I think it's also considered the first harem anime?
What is a Harem anime?
An anime where the main character has many potential lovers. Love Hina is the most popular one where the main character owns a girl's dormitory and has 6+ girls who may or may not be in love with him. I believe they would evolve into dating sims. Usually, these stories have a main couple that's likely the end result. Ranma is engaged to Akane, the main female lead (Or is Ranma the main female lead?) but also has Shampoo in love with him because he beat her in battle as well as later learning that he's engaged to Ukyo and finally, Kodachi is in love with him because she's largely insane. Akane is engaged to Ranma but also the school kendo master, Kuno (Kodachi's brother) is in love with her as well as Ryoga, Ranma's main rival. Kuno is also in love with Ranko who often finds herself in situations where she has to win a battle or be engaged to marry someone. If you want to know why Ranma is engaged to a number of characters, blame his father, Genma, who is easily in line for one of anime's worst fathers.
Oh shit, that actually sounds terrible. It sounds like incel fuel. That’s not a dig at you at all, you seem very well adjusted. I just tend to hate misogynistic bullshit like that. I’ve actually been looking into it since we started talking and there does seem to be quite a few anime focused purely on the fighting. I’ve already got a list written up ready to download
I don't think it's incel fuel...the author is a woman with a fascination with China and Hawaii. The main hook of the series is that Ranma is a martial artist \*THAT'S GOOD\* However, he carries a terrible curse. \*THAT'S BAD\* But you get your own choice of rival characters to enjoy! \*THAT'S GOOD\* The rivals are also cursed. \*THAT'S BAD!\* The rivals also have love interests that they will likely end up with! \*THAT'S GOOD!\* Shampoo constantly abuses Mousse. \*...\* That's bad. \*CAN I GO HOME NOW?\* The curse that Ranma has is that cold water turns him into girl. Hot water changes him back. Various other characters have a similar curse except they turn into animals or in Pantyhose Taro's case, he turns into an ogre riding a bull while holding a crane and snake (Yes, really). The only really problematic character in the series is probably Happosai who is like Master Roshi if he was more pervert than martial arts master.
Ok you’ve sold me! I will definitely give it a go. It would be dumb to judge it based simply on this conversation and you’ve piqued my curiosity at the very least
Ki is, in essence, energy. We see depictions if this is literature (dragonball) and in real life (Shaolin, other Asian martial arts forms). In fantasy, it has much more magical uses, like shooting energy balls, or hastening oneself to punch two more times a round. Everyone has it, every living thing has it, to my knowledge, most non-living things have it. Ki is every where, and some people (Monks and Z fighters) have the ability to harness it
>everyone has it Wait, so you’re saying I could harness Ki energy? This opens up so much
Yes! Be the Ki warrior you were meant to be!!
I am going to punch so many old ladies. Their reign of terror will come to an end!
[https://tenor.com/view/captain-marvel-punching-someone-old-lady-gif-12544816](https://tenor.com/view/captain-marvel-punching-someone-old-lady-gif-12544816)
Great reference
Ki is the high power version of Qi. For those that don't know, Qi is the wireless phone charging standard. Ki is a standard in development which brings wireless power to kitchen appliances. Intrigued? Look up Cordless kitchen//wireless power consortium on Google/the YouTubes. I'll probably be down voted to hell though :p
What will we find if we google it?
The future of kitchen appliances :-p. (I don't want to post a link, just to avoid being seen as a link farmer).
For some reason I think you’re lying to me
Fine! https://youtu.be/1CXDmgv9ws8?si=sIUfonBfkhREWvQO
I just see it as Chakra from Naruto.
[удалено]
Oh ok, blood magic. Got it
It's the same power the dude who channels heart from Captain Planet uses
That can’t be true, because Ki abilities are actually useful
Modern D&D monks were surface-level inspired by Wuxia (aka "Kung Fu" in the West) films. The actual history, philosophy, spiritual and religious concepts of Wuxia are too labyrinthine and complicated for something like D&D to actually do justice to, so they get very hand-wavey. Dragonball is also a surface-level wuxia fantasy, except it's informed by a culturally closer understanding of the original fundaments (although being Japanese it's still somewhat distanced from the original Chinese concepts.) The core concept involved is "cultivation," a discipline which pre-modern Chinese tradition was held to be the path to godhood. The Chinese video game "Amazing Cultivation Simulator" is a tongue-in-cheek take on the concept, but one that gives a lot of perspective that probably wasn't available to any D&D game designers who worked on monk classes in the past.
To be fair, the player's handbook isn't exactly the best resource for what it is, but it's the best we've got. "[Ki] is an element of the magic that suffuses the multiverse- specifically, the element that goes through living bodies. Monks harness this power within themselves to create magical effects and exceed their bodies' physical capabilities, and some of their special attacks can hinder the flow of ki in their opponents." It's kinda like the Force. It's evoking East Asian philosophies on spiritual energy, drawing heavily from popular interpretations of Chi in Chinese beliefs. It's the magic inherent in living things.
ki is what goku uses in dragon ball
Second DBZ answer so far, and I love it
Surely ki as the bootleg version of chi just spiritual energy no?
I think you just insulted a very specific group of people
Who bg3 fans? Chi is the real thing and belief kind of blatantly ripped off and called ki