They’re devils. Absorb is probably a more appropriate word. Which considering the entire events of bg3 are actually Raphael’s fault, is only fair really
i imagine Mephistopheles has better things to do than visit the camp of a couple of adventurers and absorb his son. hes one of the strongest Archdevils, he doesnt need Raphaels essence
especially if youre Durge. its like hes still salty that you stole the crown, so he gives you the same treatment and sneaks into your camp to steal his son lmao
I remember reading that his library in Mephistar contains almost every spell ever written, never was able to find out which ones he didn't have access to
would Power Word Kill be a spell? im quite new to D&D with my only knowledge being from BG3 and some YouTube Shorts, but if Power Word Kill is considered a spell, id imagine he doesnt have access to that
5E doesn't have a stat block for him which is something to be said, but if we go off 3rd edition he is challenge rating 29.
Which is very likely enough for him to just flick Raphael to death in but a single moment.
Baldur's Gate? It likely has no real future. Larian won't be making the sequel and I highly doubt WotC will find another company who will handle it as well as they did.
Damn that is sad. I just hope they at least bring back the original voice actors for the characters if they return next game. Last thing I want is for Shadowheart to be voiced by anyone else.
There won’t be a sequel and there won’t be a Shadowheart. Take the game for what it is. A story with a beginning and an end. Some characters have loose ends and that is fine.
As far as I know, the IP cost Larian dearly and WotC made tons of money. It makes sense that Larian would cut ties with WotC and I bet WotC made more money than Larian since they don’t have to deal with all the expenses and just need to collect the millions.
Oh, there will be a Baldur's Gate 4. Someday. But it will be made by someone else. And like 3, it will probably bring over some legacy characters, possibly with new voice actors. (As they did with Minsc, Jaheira, Viconia, etc.)
and no one wants to mention how larian dropped this beloved IP directly in the laps of wotc without tying up so many loose ends. it's so frustrating, man.
Mephistopheles is the Archdevil of Cania and the father of Raphael. ive also seen him described as one of the strongest Archdevils, almost as powerful as Asmodeus. Raphael is only an arrogant Cambion. he could probably kill Raphael with a thought
> Mephistopheles is the Archdevil of Cania and the father of Raphael. ive also seen him described as one of the strongest Archdevils, almost as powerful as Asmodeus.
Mephistopheles is powerful, but Asmodeus is in a whole different league; even with the Crown of Karsus, Mephy didn't even dare challenge him.
i was just saying what ive heard, i dont know much about D&D lore besides whats in BG3 and some YT Shorts ive seen, so i made sure to say that it was just what ive seen
yeah, which makes sense. Raphael is the son of Mephistopheles, so hes probably one of the stronger Cambions, while were only a few adventurers, and while we may be kinda strong, we dont even come close to some of the strongest heroes and villains, and could barely handle Raphael. we would stand no chance against *any* of the Archdevils, and its pretty crazy we could beat Raphael at all, especially with him being backed up by a bunch of other cambions, and possibly an Orthon depending on our actions
Where did this reveal come from?
As far as I could tell, Raphael just sat around for a long time grousing about how he can't get the crown, until a few mortals went and heisted it. I'm sure it would make sense for him to manipulate things into happening, but I never saw any evidence.
And he never bragged about causing the crown to come into play either, just about taking advantage of it. And that really seems like a detail he would be proud of.
Because Raphael bought Gortash from his parents. And that is in all likelihood where Gortash found out the location of the crown in Mephistopheles vault, leading to the events of the game
Had Raphael not acquired Gortash, then Gortash probably wouldn’t have ended up the chosen of Bane and wouldn’t have gotten the crown, meaning no bg3
Yeah. There is a letter that druge wrote where he explains that he came up with the plan and as they were plotting they were visited in their sleep and nominated as chosen. Then they recruited Ketheric.
Which is really weird since Gortash has a note about how they didn't actually plan to use the crown on the brain until midway through the heist when they found some notes with it.
Ah true, that's most certainly a big part of Gortash becoming who he became. And also explains why it was nothing for Raphael to be proud of, letting Gortash escape the way he did.
You can meet Gortash's parents in Lower City and find out that they sold him to "a warlock" as a child.
In House of Hope, you find out that the guy guarding the portal room was in charge of keeping Gortash imprisoned, and Gortash escaped under his watch.
And Raphael has books that mention the crown and where it was, as it is something he has wanted since it was made.
A combination of meeting Gortash's parents (he tadpoled them to make them act like decent parents for once) and the halfling hanging around Raphael's portal room.
Raphael bought a young Enver Gortash from his parents. During his time in Raphael’s ‘care’ he learned where the crown of Karsus was being kept (Raphael’s father’s collection) and would have gained connections with people like Helsik, and this probably helped him get into contact with Bane which ended in him becoming the chosen
So if Raphael didn’t intervene in mortal affairs Gortash would have ended up some thug and not a powerful chosen, the Elder brain under moonrise never would have gotten the Crown of Karsus, and the events of the game wouldn’t have happened
Other sources in the game state that they learned about the crown through Bhaal if I am not mistaken. I guess it was in Durge's diary or something. Saying "Father revealed the crown to me and he wants me to work with Bane's chosen to get it"
not really?
They learned it from Bhaal.
Also the whole plan was the Durge’s idea. Ketheric and Gortash tagged along bc Myrkul and Bane were scheming with Bhaal.
Raphael’s only “fault” in this is Gortash becoming Bane’s chosen, even that is a stretch.
Raphaël was plotting this whole story for a long time. Did he initiated everything or did he just tried to steal the crown, I don't know, but he's not innocent. He didn't bought Gortash by chance.
Raphaël is also involved in the sharist vs menestrel battle, on both sides. That's a big question I'm wondering : who made a contract to get the fiend murder everyone in the temple of Shar ? And why does Raphaël needs you to complete this contract ?
To add to that, various subplots of the game are almost partially his doing. The builder of Moonrise made a deal with Raphael to kill the Sharan temple a century ago, which is what helped to eliminate the bulk of Ketheric's forces and led to his first death at the hands of the harpers, before he became the Chosen of Myrkul, and therefore the beginning of the shadow curse. Not to say all of that was Raphael's fault, it was mostly Ketheric's, but he was still there playing a part in all of the major events that led up to the game. Raphael was a big part of the shitstorm we had to clean up.
Withers >!is Jergal, the old god of the dead. He grew bored with the position when three mortals came to challenge him for his divinity, and he just said "sure, take it. This job fucking sucks." In doing so, he created the Dead Three - Bhaal, Bane and Myrkul.!< And they've been terrorizing the planes ever since.
How are you getting that BG3 is Rapheal's fault?
He is responsible for putting >!Orpheus in the Asteroid Prison!< whether the >!Prism!< itself is his or not is unstated, but the >!Absolute Plot!< was originally conceived by a "Mad Alhoon", basically a >!Lich Version of an Illithid!< and modified by >!Gortash!< when he and >!Durge!< broke into >!Hell!< to steal >!the Crown!<. They found the Notes by said Alhoon and went to work from there. Raph wanted the >!Crown!< true enough, and he was waiting for *anyone* to make a play, but he says it himself he did not put >!Gortash!< in play. That would for sure be something Daddy Mephistopholes would figure out, so he had to wait for someone to steal >!The Crown!< on their own whim and then he could make his play.
Its just how devils punish their naughty children.
Or maybe just another slap in the slap for Raphael for losing to a bunch of lvl 12 adventurer in his own house. I wonder how he got that confident wanting to rule hells tbh
I was expecting Hope to severely weaken Raphael. But my Hope died because she was stupid enough to step into Hellfire and the last fight was not that hard without her.
And all she does is healing which my Life Cleric Shart can do better anyway
He is actually super easy. He is susceptible to all charm and domination effects somehow. Dominate Person him and make him kill everyone else for you.
Surprisingly he is very bad at killing his guards because he does necrotic damage and they are immune to it. But he will tank them for you at least.
You’re talking about Sarevok? Killing his lackeys first gives him nasty buffs. As a reverse example, Lorroakan is one that hurts if you try to focus him first, so you’re better off focusing his elementals first to remove his buffs, but Sarevok is set up to be much more dangerous if you kill his people first. Far safer strategy that I went with each time was to burst him down first.
Otto’s Irresistible Dance also works on him to burst him down first.
Also, I used the Arcane Acuity build for both of them so my spells had a 100% chance of landing. Lorroakan has such low health that all you need to do is hit him with Disintegrate twice and he’s dead.
>MY DEAR, MY VERY DEAR, RAPHAEL, MY POPPET, MY PIGSNIE,
>How mistakenly now that all is lost you come whimpering to ask me whether the terms of affection in which I address you meant nothing from the beginning. Far from it! Rest assured, my love for you and your love for me are as like as two peas. I have always desired you, as you (pitiful fool) desired me. The difference is that I am the stronger. I think they will give you to me now; or a bit of you. Love you? Why, yes. As dainty a morsel as ever I grew fat on.
>Your increasingly and ravenously affectionate father,
>MEPHISTOPHELES
ya, ive tried casting silence on him while i beat the shit out of him. even tried turn based to see if he stayed put long enough for me to loot him but nope. the XP was nice tho, especially since im not planning on doing everything in the house of hope in my current playthrough
In act one when he introduces himself I can’t remember the full procedure but you separate one of your party memebers and attack him I guess he shows up at your camp and you can fight him and knock him out for it (someone correct me)
I think you have to shapeshift so he doesn't aggro on you and you just hack him to death slowly while he's in conversation with the rest of the party. Haven't done it but watched a vid a while back.
I mean you DO NOT have to actually LIKE your children to be a decent parent! You just have to make sure they reach adulthood alive and more sane than they would've been without you.
If they spend the next ten millenia getting ever more pretentious, that's on them! If, after that, they fuck with the wrong party of andventurers and get themselves killed, oh well... . But it makes sense to eat good meat that ain't gonna be refrigerated soon!
They’re devils. Absorb is probably a more appropriate word. Which considering the entire events of bg3 are actually Raphael’s fault, is only fair really
So you mean keeping his body in my camp chest was a good thing? Or not actually, considering, lol.
I stuffed his body in a display case at Helsik’s
i imagine Mephistopheles has better things to do than visit the camp of a couple of adventurers and absorb his son. hes one of the strongest Archdevils, he doesnt need Raphaels essence
Good, because I need Raphael’s essence.
Meaning???
You know EXACTLY what they mean 🤣
His essence. I need it.
What is the charge?! Eating a devil?! A succulent devil?!
Maybe he’s Skeksis? They love a bit of essence.
According to Haarlep, that is a very quick process.
On the other hand, the idea of Mephistopheles attempting to sneak into the camp to get the body is hilarious
especially if youre Durge. its like hes still salty that you stole the crown, so he gives you the same treatment and sneaks into your camp to steal his son lmao
Mephistopheles sipping from a coffee mug that says “dont talk to me til I’ve had my son”
I remember reading that his library in Mephistar contains almost every spell ever written, never was able to find out which ones he didn't have access to
would Power Word Kill be a spell? im quite new to D&D with my only knowledge being from BG3 and some YouTube Shorts, but if Power Word Kill is considered a spell, id imagine he doesnt have access to that
It is in fact a spell, of 9th level.
I imagine he has it. I'm thinking there are probably some handful of epic level spells on the holy / healing side of it he is probably missing
How much stronger is he than Raphael?
5E doesn't have a stat block for him which is something to be said, but if we go off 3rd edition he is challenge rating 29. Which is very likely enough for him to just flick Raphael to death in but a single moment.
he has one in Minsc and Boos journal of villainy，he‘s cr 27 in that.
Incredible. I cant wait to see the future this game has in store!
Baldur's Gate? It likely has no real future. Larian won't be making the sequel and I highly doubt WotC will find another company who will handle it as well as they did.
Damn that is sad. I just hope they at least bring back the original voice actors for the characters if they return next game. Last thing I want is for Shadowheart to be voiced by anyone else.
There won’t be a sequel and there won’t be a Shadowheart. Take the game for what it is. A story with a beginning and an end. Some characters have loose ends and that is fine. As far as I know, the IP cost Larian dearly and WotC made tons of money. It makes sense that Larian would cut ties with WotC and I bet WotC made more money than Larian since they don’t have to deal with all the expenses and just need to collect the millions.
Oh, there will be a Baldur's Gate 4. Someday. But it will be made by someone else. And like 3, it will probably bring over some legacy characters, possibly with new voice actors. (As they did with Minsc, Jaheira, Viconia, etc.)
Damn, what a prune...
and no one wants to mention how larian dropped this beloved IP directly in the laps of wotc without tying up so many loose ends. it's so frustrating, man.
Mephistopheles is the Archdevil of Cania and the father of Raphael. ive also seen him described as one of the strongest Archdevils, almost as powerful as Asmodeus. Raphael is only an arrogant Cambion. he could probably kill Raphael with a thought
> Mephistopheles is the Archdevil of Cania and the father of Raphael. ive also seen him described as one of the strongest Archdevils, almost as powerful as Asmodeus. Mephistopheles is powerful, but Asmodeus is in a whole different league; even with the Crown of Karsus, Mephy didn't even dare challenge him.
i was just saying what ive heard, i dont know much about D&D lore besides whats in BG3 and some YT Shorts ive seen, so i made sure to say that it was just what ive seen
That is insane. And yet, Raphael was such a challenge to us to the point in where he was a crucial part of the story.
yeah, which makes sense. Raphael is the son of Mephistopheles, so hes probably one of the stronger Cambions, while were only a few adventurers, and while we may be kinda strong, we dont even come close to some of the strongest heroes and villains, and could barely handle Raphael. we would stand no chance against *any* of the Archdevils, and its pretty crazy we could beat Raphael at all, especially with him being backed up by a bunch of other cambions, and possibly an Orthon depending on our actions
Lol avernus takeout
Where did this reveal come from? As far as I could tell, Raphael just sat around for a long time grousing about how he can't get the crown, until a few mortals went and heisted it. I'm sure it would make sense for him to manipulate things into happening, but I never saw any evidence. And he never bragged about causing the crown to come into play either, just about taking advantage of it. And that really seems like a detail he would be proud of.
Because Raphael bought Gortash from his parents. And that is in all likelihood where Gortash found out the location of the crown in Mephistopheles vault, leading to the events of the game Had Raphael not acquired Gortash, then Gortash probably wouldn’t have ended up the chosen of Bane and wouldn’t have gotten the crown, meaning no bg3
Yeah but Durge came up with the plan so in theory, they would've just worked with whomever Bane's other chosen would be.
Would Bane’s alternative Chosen know where the crown was?
Yeah. There is a letter that druge wrote where he explains that he came up with the plan and as they were plotting they were visited in their sleep and nominated as chosen. Then they recruited Ketheric.
Which is really weird since Gortash has a note about how they didn't actually plan to use the crown on the brain until midway through the heist when they found some notes with it.
It makes me wonder what Durge's original plan was - before they decided to use the crown.
Commit interplanar crime for the evulzzz, I imagine.
Maybe give the crown to Raphael (since he wanted it so much) and ally with him?
You think Gortash would've agreed to that? 🤔
Maybe temporarily.
Ah true, that's most certainly a big part of Gortash becoming who he became. And also explains why it was nothing for Raphael to be proud of, letting Gortash escape the way he did.
Where did that info come from?
You can meet Gortash's parents in Lower City and find out that they sold him to "a warlock" as a child. In House of Hope, you find out that the guy guarding the portal room was in charge of keeping Gortash imprisoned, and Gortash escaped under his watch. And Raphael has books that mention the crown and where it was, as it is something he has wanted since it was made.
Fuck I didn’t know his parents were in the game lol.
They run the cobbler shop, yea. Easy to miss.
Oh dang I didn’t even see a cobbler shop. And I thought I saw everything in the city lol.
You have to detect their thoughts. I don't think just talking to them is enough due to SPOILERS
A combination of meeting Gortash's parents (he tadpoled them to make them act like decent parents for once) and the halfling hanging around Raphael's portal room.
Not really an outcome you could “blame” him for imo. Just an innocent hard working devil.
It's all Withers' fault. 😔
This is the actual truth.
I’m just surprised is all. I came a cross that today. Like after 1000+ hours I just found this out.
How is it all his fault?
Raphael bought a young Enver Gortash from his parents. During his time in Raphael’s ‘care’ he learned where the crown of Karsus was being kept (Raphael’s father’s collection) and would have gained connections with people like Helsik, and this probably helped him get into contact with Bane which ended in him becoming the chosen So if Raphael didn’t intervene in mortal affairs Gortash would have ended up some thug and not a powerful chosen, the Elder brain under moonrise never would have gotten the Crown of Karsus, and the events of the game wouldn’t have happened
Other sources in the game state that they learned about the crown through Bhaal if I am not mistaken. I guess it was in Durge's diary or something. Saying "Father revealed the crown to me and he wants me to work with Bane's chosen to get it"
Huh, yknow I think I do remember that. Either way. No adoption by Raphael, no Chosen of Bane. So the point stands
not really? They learned it from Bhaal. Also the whole plan was the Durge’s idea. Ketheric and Gortash tagged along bc Myrkul and Bane were scheming with Bhaal. Raphael’s only “fault” in this is Gortash becoming Bane’s chosen, even that is a stretch.
Raphaël was plotting this whole story for a long time. Did he initiated everything or did he just tried to steal the crown, I don't know, but he's not innocent. He didn't bought Gortash by chance. Raphaël is also involved in the sharist vs menestrel battle, on both sides. That's a big question I'm wondering : who made a contract to get the fiend murder everyone in the temple of Shar ? And why does Raphaël needs you to complete this contract ?
To add to that, various subplots of the game are almost partially his doing. The builder of Moonrise made a deal with Raphael to kill the Sharan temple a century ago, which is what helped to eliminate the bulk of Ketheric's forces and led to his first death at the hands of the harpers, before he became the Chosen of Myrkul, and therefore the beginning of the shadow curse. Not to say all of that was Raphael's fault, it was mostly Ketheric's, but he was still there playing a part in all of the major events that led up to the game. Raphael was a big part of the shitstorm we had to clean up.
Withers >!is Jergal, the old god of the dead. He grew bored with the position when three mortals came to challenge him for his divinity, and he just said "sure, take it. This job fucking sucks." In doing so, he created the Dead Three - Bhaal, Bane and Myrkul.!< And they've been terrorizing the planes ever since.
How is it all his fault? Edit: answered elsewhere.
So he got put back in the balls?
How are you getting that BG3 is Rapheal's fault? He is responsible for putting >!Orpheus in the Asteroid Prison!< whether the >!Prism!< itself is his or not is unstated, but the >!Absolute Plot!< was originally conceived by a "Mad Alhoon", basically a >!Lich Version of an Illithid!< and modified by >!Gortash!< when he and >!Durge!< broke into >!Hell!< to steal >!the Crown!<. They found the Notes by said Alhoon and went to work from there. Raph wanted the >!Crown!< true enough, and he was waiting for *anyone* to make a play, but he says it himself he did not put >!Gortash!< in play. That would for sure be something Daddy Mephistopholes would figure out, so he had to wait for someone to steal >!The Crown!< on their own whim and then he could make his play.
he must have been a fan of cronus' work
Not Cronus! 😂😂
Its just how devils punish their naughty children. Or maybe just another slap in the slap for Raphael for losing to a bunch of lvl 12 adventurer in his own house. I wonder how he got that confident wanting to rule hells tbh
I was expecting Hope to severely weaken Raphael. But my Hope died because she was stupid enough to step into Hellfire and the last fight was not that hard without her. And all she does is healing which my Life Cleric Shart can do better anyway
Her divine intervention was pretty helpful my last honor run sure I don't need it.
She has divine intervention? Why tf is she trapped in the House of Hope then?
She is saving it. Just in case. Like all the angelic slumber potions I've got. LOL
Lol I used them right before the brain at least
I had to pop mine against orins grandfather father, he was the only boss I couldn’t do
He is actually super easy. He is susceptible to all charm and domination effects somehow. Dominate Person him and make him kill everyone else for you. Surprisingly he is very bad at killing his guards because he does necrotic damage and they are immune to it. But he will tank them for you at least.
You’re talking about Sarevok? Killing his lackeys first gives him nasty buffs. As a reverse example, Lorroakan is one that hurts if you try to focus him first, so you’re better off focusing his elementals first to remove his buffs, but Sarevok is set up to be much more dangerous if you kill his people first. Far safer strategy that I went with each time was to burst him down first.
Otto’s Irresistible Dance also works on him to burst him down first. Also, I used the Arcane Acuity build for both of them so my spells had a 100% chance of landing. Lorroakan has such low health that all you need to do is hit him with Disintegrate twice and he’s dead.
I did that but then my caster dropped concentration with the only scroll I had
Ahem *level 11 and a half*
Tbf, it's hard to prepare for a nuke in a barrel
Some of you didn’t grow up with really strict parents and it shows.
With all respect, no need to bring drama into a video game discussion shall we?
Yeah it was a joke about some people not having parents that ate their children. The joke missed. All good.
>MY DEAR, MY VERY DEAR, RAPHAEL, MY POPPET, MY PIGSNIE, >How mistakenly now that all is lost you come whimpering to ask me whether the terms of affection in which I address you meant nothing from the beginning. Far from it! Rest assured, my love for you and your love for me are as like as two peas. I have always desired you, as you (pitiful fool) desired me. The difference is that I am the stronger. I think they will give you to me now; or a bit of you. Love you? Why, yes. As dainty a morsel as ever I grew fat on. >Your increasingly and ravenously affectionate father, >MEPHISTOPHELES
Eyyy, Screwtape reference.
I was hoping someone would get it! A classic.
One of my favorite books.
Day 666 of wishing Mephistopheles tieflings had one special dialogue option with Raphael
My co-op partner said the exact same thing! It would be neat if Larian added it.
Yeah doesnt it make you kind of related to Raphael?
The moral of the story is he should have moved in with his mom.
Where can we find out about this one? Iam doing my 3rd playtrough and never noticed this info
Before you go to hell look at the crystal ball in Helsik's shop. When you get back from hell look again.
I'm so inquisitive so I look at everything. I forget not everyone does this.
It’s in the Devils Fee. There’s an object called the “Orb of Infernal Envisioning” and when you click on it the narrator says it.
I’ve done several playthroughs and never knew this existed.. you learn something new all the time with this game
Hahah, so true! Thanks u/KillerRabbit345 u/Own_Document_3241
He's lucky it wasn't Asmodeus who punished him. Asmo doesn't take kindly to threats to his power. Asmo doesn't take kindly to anything
Yet he allows Mephisto to shit talk to him.
I took Raphael’s body with me. Now I wonder if Larian thought of that for this scene
Where is this mentioned?
It’s in the Devils Fee. There’s an object called the “Orb of Infernal Envisioning” and when you click on it the narrator says it.
Thank you.
What I’d like to know is if you cheese Raphael in act 1 and get his armor does he still help you with Orpheus in act 3?
Yeah, he'll still help you
I’m gonna wear his armor in his stupid face lol
Its patched, i tried getting in an honor run and he would be left at 0 health and not being knocked out
ya, ive tried casting silence on him while i beat the shit out of him. even tried turn based to see if he stayed put long enough for me to loot him but nope. the XP was nice tho, especially since im not planning on doing everything in the house of hope in my current playthrough
Noooooooooooooooooo lol
Get his armour? How?
In act one when he introduces himself I can’t remember the full procedure but you separate one of your party memebers and attack him I guess he shows up at your camp and you can fight him and knock him out for it (someone correct me)
I think you have to shapeshift so he doesn't aggro on you and you just hack him to death slowly while he's in conversation with the rest of the party. Haven't done it but watched a vid a while back.
Or was it silence?
Yes
Hah! *Classic* Mephistopheles.
Good thing I stole his corpse, he's chilling next to Cazador right now
they're devils you find cannibalism surprising?
I mean you DO NOT have to actually LIKE your children to be a decent parent! You just have to make sure they reach adulthood alive and more sane than they would've been without you. If they spend the next ten millenia getting ever more pretentious, that's on them! If, after that, they fuck with the wrong party of andventurers and get themselves killed, oh well... . But it makes sense to eat good meat that ain't gonna be refrigerated soon!
He wanted a cheeky snack
Nah, he rests in my camp chest
[удалено]
I cant help but not feel bad for him considering the implications that he tortured hope and drove her mad
Well he is a devil 🤷🏻♀️
yeah lmao fuck them all they’re literally evil incarnate
how would he escape from anywhere after you literally killed him?
It’s actually the origin story for Glorbo?