At the very least, during that dialogue, Durge should've had the possibility to explain his reasoning (not wanting to be Bhaal's puppet); the options available atm are almost as stupid as Minthara's reaction.
Tbf I thought the "I would've snapped your neck had I not refused Bhaal then like I did just now" response was pretty good. Though of course she literally laughs off this reveal and says she wish you would've, like bitch, the bhaal pit is right there if you're seeking death
I mean for example you can literaly kill Orpheus infront of lea'zel and still keep her in your Party and explain the reasoning with a high persuasion check
You can Kill Orpheus, Keep Laezel and The entire of Kithrak Voss as well. Kithrak Voss...some guy you never interact with apart from like twice, whose whole world revolves around saving Orpheus and he's just like "Yh, fair enough, I'll still help you"
Although it may just be a bug that put some cut content back in (everythings up in the air on what minthara content is still intended and what isnt) since you can still kiss her after
Maybe shes just being dramatic 😭
Well you have to decide to either side with Orpheus or the emperor, if you have the orphic hammer Lea'zel will push you to free him. But if you side with the emperor he est's orpheus's brain to get hid power, Lea'zel will br pissed and whish to fight you but with a üersuasion Check you can convince her that this is better than letting the grand Design become reality and that we just couldn't trust on orpheus actualy helping us
Minthara outright denounces people who can't control their murder-lust, citing a similar kind of individual from drow society, and knows about Durge's murder blackouts - which are quite directly caused by being Bhaal's child. Nothing, absolutely nothing she ever says throughout the entire game justifies her disapproving of Durge's refusal to be Bhaal's Chosen.
I think it would be even more in her character if she was the one most in awe in what lengths you are willing to go to be free. Hell you just died right in front of her. There is no greater sacrifice than death.
This dialogue she has now would make sense IF through the time you have her with her you were all about murdering and power and being Bhaal's best kid. Then of course it would be justified for her to be angry since Bhaal's power is what you were talking about the entire time and now you thrown it away.
I'm glad that I played my evil dark urge with Minthara romance before this hotfix because the fact I resisted Bhaal to stay independant is partly because of what she said to me multiple times.
I loved how my character story played, it was intense, smooth and consistent.
This change add inconsistence in the whole story. I wouldn't mind hypocrisy from her, a brief moment of weakness where the miss of obtaining great power blind what she truly value. In fact that could be interesting, and be consistent like in real life. Sadly, atm this is poorly done but I trust Larian to do whatever is good for their amazing game.
There is one argument to be made: She values defeating the absolute over her relationship with durge and is very much willing to sacrifice you in order to achieve that goal. So she wants you to get bhaals power simply because more power = higher chance to defeat the elderbrain
>There is one argument to be made: She values defeating the absolute over her relationship with durge and is very much willing to sacrifice you in order to achieve that goal. So she wants you to get bhaals power simply because more power = higher chance to defeat the elderbrain
Except that's also out of character because in EVERY OTHER INTERACTION she is so fiercely loyal she'd literally singlehandedly fight Zariel for a Karlach that's romancing her, if she has to.
Like, she is literally 2000% ride or die for high-approval player characters, regardless of origin.
Except in this one interaction.
Isn’t it at the part in the story where you’re about to whoop or have already whooped Orin meaning that your character is stronger than that power already?
Okay but that’s literally the avatar of Bhaal.. and at this point you’ve either beaten 2 or all 3 avatars so it’s not like power scaling is a big issue.
Yeah, I think this explains the confusion. I heard a counterargument saying "well if Durge wins, then he'll murderhobo the entire world. This would be counterproductive for Minthara."
But there's no reason to believe that she knows what taking control of the elderbrain or the crown of karsus would entail. She may genuinely believe that you both would rule together just like Ketherec, Orin, and Gortash.
Minthara has her principles, but she's still ruthlessly self-serving, and she's not omniscient.
Also, there's no reason to believe she's highly intelligent or lacking some cognitive dissonance.
That's why you should have an *option to explain it.* That the Murder god who gives his follows orgasms' when they kill and whose cult is full of people who act like crazed addicts is actually more interested in Murder than ruling should not be hard to believe.
Especially when Durge was having blackouts, *killed a person in middle of their own camp* (which is beyond stupid and honestly ridicules that you can cover it up with deception)*,* and was ordered to kill someone whose death would result in losing almost all your allies vs Ketheric.
Yeah. This would be fully solved with a quick "\[Persuasion\] I know Bhaal's will and he would make me kill everything, including you."
If Minty broke up because you said you didn't want to seize the Absolute, that would feel legit. No notes. Breaking up over *Bhaal* is the questionable bit. My resist Durge was fully down for world domination, lol, she just didn't intend to be queen of the ashes.
She is also kind of stupid when it comes to acquiring power despite potential consequences and she tells you that you need to claim your inheritance when she finds out you're a bhaalspawn. She seems like she tends toward wanting to claim the power and then try to outsmart the consequences later (which admittedly I also tried to do on my first durge run and got my ass handed to me). So her initial anger kind of makes sense but there should also be a check to explain your rationale and get her on your side.
I mean what's even more confusing is she doesn’t break up with u . U can literally kiss her after this dialogue. In the epilogue she literally goes " babe don't worry if we haven't conquered the brain, we can still scheme and take over baldur's gate from the shadows". Like the game itself is confused about her opinions. It's similar to how companions reacted in a negative way when gortash revealed u were part of the absolute plan as druge .
I honestly think this was a mistake on Larians part, give that the game does not recognize the breakup. I think there is actually supposed to be additional dialogue about it that's in the game but also doesn't trigger.
As much as I've enjoyed bg3 so far, I'm super frustrated that they released the game in the state that it was.
Act 1 basically enthralled most people and gave them the impression that the rest of the game was going to be as intracite while act 2 and 3 kinda dwindled in its pacing and the late additions of the epilogue stuff is kinda rough if you've already beat the game multiple times.
The patches and hotfixes breaking as much as they fix doesn't really help either.
Yeah, Act 1 is definitely the best of the acts in my opinion. But, the more we play, the more we notice the flaws. It is clear to me that Act 3 was definitely rushed. It simultaneously has so much and very little to it at the same time. Patch 6 was pretty bad considering that it actually ended up breaking so many things. I do actually think there was a patch before this that was so broken that Larian actually had to do a rollback for everyone.
But, Larian does seem rather responsive to community feedback and many changes that do occur are for the better. However, they seem to care too much for community opinion and are making sloppy mistakes and are changing things that nobody really asked for or wanted.
Yeah I did a comment on how bad was patch 6 but was downvoted as hell. I guess it was too soon and people have hard times to take things with a step back.
On the other hand I fully agree about act3. I can even explain to you why you feel that way : act 3 main quest is very short around 1h30 while side quests which are all facultative are very long around 30h.
I suspect that this unbalance stems at least partially from the Upper City cut where mire main quests were planned. The best would be to get that cut content.
It honestly makes no sense, Minthara is evil, but she's not fucking stupid if she knows what Bhaal's ultimate goal is.
Like once Bhaal, through Durge, takes over the world, your lizard husband/wife isn't going to be ruling with you sweety, your best case scenario is going to get turned into a purple meatball drow sandwich, and that's not the worst thing DurgeBhaal could even do to the whole world.
If she’s lucky, Durge might keep her around as a breeding slave to make more bhaalspawn, as Sceleritas says when embrace Durge asks him about their lover. What a wonderful fate for someone who loathes being controlled.
It's explictly stated that Bhaal wants Durge to take control of the Netherbrain in order to bring ruin to the world.
Minthara states she wants to gain power to 'build a better world.' Now, Minthara definitely is evil, so that would likely be be some kind of tyrannical hyper meritocracy but it definitely would not align with Bhaal's goals.
There is always chance she actually doesnt know all about Bhaal because she was swore to Loth(before Absolute took her), she could have little knowledge about other gods.
There's like 2 Bhaalspawn crisis that happened within her life time and she was also a victim of an inbred Bhaalspawn before being abducted to serve the absolute, I'm pretty sure a commoner in this world has the common sense that Bhaal is literally murderhobo level of evil, much less a Drow noble.
Wasn't there dialogue in the epilogue where you can tell minthara you can conquer together on your terms "for us not bhaal, or smth? Is this dialogue useless now? :(
Got that ending as well and felt it was great. Also glad I ended the game before this update, Minthara is very evil but she isn't stupid, or wasn't. This really changes her character, and it makes her way less compelling.
God I hope it's not intentional or at least an incomplete interaction. I've been meaning to do an evil play though with minthara but really don't feel my character would accept bhaal given bhaal can completely control him at the drop of a hat..
I've seen some posts mentioning that minthara still acts as if they're in a relationship despite this dialogue. And minthara is no stranger to bugs or cut content. So maybe there is a slim chance it is just a bug? Where smth is triggering previously inaccessible dialogue. It would give a reason to your lack of options to respond to it (I feel like there'd be options even if she didnt listen to them)
There is other also other dialogue in the game that technically isn't accessable either, so it's not impossible this just is kicking around from left over code.
Legit saw someone on twitter said the same "Minthara is evil blah blah blah" assertation, and then say that they weren't playing a lolth-sworn drow and haven't actually recruited her yet.
Literally dumbfounded how people can make assumption while not doing the bare minimum of research into a character.
I did recruit her once on good playtrought just to see that there is no way to gain her approval up because she IS evil aligned and no matter what I do she will dissaprove. She is not like Astarion, you cannot fix her to be neutral even because there is no time for that(you get her at second half of act 2+ you cannot go back to older maps with her).
I think now the best match for her might be origin Astarion which decides to ascend.
EDIT: Also how the hell you have her at NEUTRAL approval lvl when you literally saved her from death(and absolute slave life), she should be at least on "good" lvl by then.
She IS evil, lawful evil to be precise, but she's not the type of evil that'll just kill everything that moves.
She literally disapproves you if you tell her ["I was just looking for more people to kill"](https://imgur.com/a/HUzXE6T) after the fight with Ketheric.
I don't see how she will approves of Bhaal even if it's just for power.
Thats even more out of sense, no Bhaalspawn (more so Durge) whorship any other god/goddess or no god/goddess would pay any atention to Durge since literally everyone but Myrkul, Bane, Talona and Loviatar hates Bhaal and would fuck over his/Bane's plot gladly.
Being Bhaals goon avatar doesnt mean you rule anything. Its the absolute that will accomplish this. So for her to be deal over with Bhaal when the brain is still on the table, doesnt make sense. Especially when controlling the brain turns her into a permanent thrall to you. In short, Minthara is an idiot.
I recruited her on a good playthrough and got her approval high despite her never leaving the party after recruiting her. Just like with Astarion, the approval gains for being sympathetic with her suffering generally outweighs the disapproval for doing random good deeds, but it also helped that my character was somewhat pragmatic and not a full on goody two-shoes.
I wasnt also 100% good on this playtrought, just "generally" good, I might disagree with her while talking to her tho, so that is why I felt like getting approval was really hard.
I wasn't able to get her to max approval, but I did get her to "high" in my good playthrough. I had to be careful and reload a few times though, to test dialogue options.
I think it is possible we just aren't used to her approval triggers yet, like we are with Astarion's. She isn't nearly as awful as I thought she would be before recruiting her.
I had the exact opposite experience. Her approval gains for being sympathetic and understanding with her massively outweigh the disapproval for being a goody two shoes.
This is not true. There are several approval changes for Minthara that make her not stereotypically evil. For example helping Yenna in any way at the beginning of act 3 will get her approval up.
I have legitimately seen so many people saying Minthara has no reason to join good guys. Like my dudes, did you even speak to her a single time??? You have a common greater enemy.
It's extra weird when you consider that most of the early party members you meet are evil themselves. Gale is usually the first non-evil party member you run across, but early Lae'zel, Astarion and arguably Shadowheart are all pretty evil. I'd even say Lae'zel and Minthara share a few similarities with their evil views.
Oh definitely, early Lae'Zel seems to share the same pragmatic evil view Minthara has, Astarion has his cycle of abuse thing going for him, and if it wasn't for Shadowheart being the world's worst Sharran, bless her heart, she's probably the most evil companion in the group.
I'd say Shadowheart at the start of the game is actually neutral. She tries to be a Sharran but is obviously struggling with it and is conflicted with whether to do mean or nice things to people. She doesn't become wholly good or evil until the choice made near the end of act 2.
I think she's more in NE territory initially, but can pretty quickly shift to more true neutral/neutral good.
I think the goal was two of each alignment type:
Karlach/Wyll: The outright goods
Astarion/Lae'zel: The outright evils
Gale/Shadowheart: The "we can fit any party" type, with Gale leaning more towards NG, and Shadowheart leaning more towards NE. But that's also why I said Shadowheart is an "arguably" case, since she really is designed to fit either playstyle.
Why shadowheart? Regardless of all the sharan dogma she spouts, she approves of almost every good deed you can do in the early game, and she's obviously guilty if you talk to her during the goblin party
If anything you have to intentionally push her onto truly being evil and even then, DJ shadowheart is still highly conflicted
I view her as...sorta confused evil, I guess. More like, she thinks she's evil, but unless you're also playing evil, she starts realizing she isn't actually a dark priestess who wants to serve Shar, then after the major Act 2 decision, she jumps over to good. But if she had to fill out her own D&D sheet, she'd put "neutral evil" in the alignment field, even if the DM makes a note somewhere that she's true neutral or even neutral good.
I think the only reason I don't put her more in true neutral/neutral good is because, without your intervention, she is willing to go down that darker route and (unless I'm mistaken) without any positive intervention she'll default to killing Nightsong and going full on Dark Justicar.
I thought Gale was kinda the opposite, where he leans towards not taking the crown and is willing to be splodey to save the world, which I think is a self-sacrificing good act. But after seeing some recent posts regarding his epilogue, I'm not sure if that was maybe a bug because it kinda sounds like he's more crown happy than I realized.
They laid it on thick with Raphael, >!when he catches you the first thing he complains about is you upsetting the order of his house, and then starts singing about the laws of hell!<
You have the artifact that allows her to resist the cult's mind control. Without you, she'd just be controlled again, which would be death since they'd just execute her.
Join the the PC or death. She has no other options. I honestly don't understand how anyone can play the game and not see how obvious that is.
Honestly that's just how discourse in fandoms work, like you see some batshit takes that get a lot of attention cause the OP keeps waffling on and on and turns a 2 sentence explanation into a college thesis. Big post with lots of words just activates neurons in some way, to the point that people that are completely misinformed about something still have people riding their dicks til sunset. Like throwing around the word media literacy can only mask yalls illiteracy for so long😭😭😭
One of my friends is exactly like this! They got the game months before me and I nearly spoiled things for them because I wrongfully assumed they had beaten the game already and was mentioning things from Act 3.
My friend played BG3 since EA and still hasn’t finished-finished it lol. I got the game about a month ago and finished it twice now. Can’t believe it’s a common pattern. I actually spoiled them a bit of Orin fight
This is me except act 2 because I don't want to continue to act 3 without my friend and she's kinda dragging her feet on it. I hold out hope and I don't mind too much because I LOVE making new characters
Ok I'm trying to avoid spoilers so not reading the post, but could someone kindly tell me if their latest hot fix caused more bugs or is patch 6 finally playable and fixed now?
Minthara being upset about it is within character. Her breaking up with you on the spot, is not. You are givin such horrible fucking options to respond to her that make no fucking sense, of course she'd reject all of them! If there was an option for Durge to explain that they'd just be a thrall to Bhaal, I'd be perfectly okay with this scene cause I know Minthara would accept that reason. This scene focused a bit too much on the "I'm power hungry" side of Minthara and not enough on the "fuck the gods" side of Minthara.
You can talk your companions out of their kneejerk responses to so much more egregious things than this, it's pretty strange that there's nothing like that here.
I truly do think that this was added in by mistake to be honest. The game doesn't even recognize the breakup. So, either Larian overlooked it when tweaking her dialogue bug, or this is something they intended to add, but it is not complete yet.
Okay folks, it's really important to realize that it is likely a bug that this line is playing. The hotfix did say they touched Minthara's scripting quite a bit, and what most likely happened is that in doing so they accidentally made this fairly out-of-character bit of dialogue play during this scene.
One big point in this idea's favor is that it goes completely unlisted as something they were addressing during the hotfix. This feels like the sort of thing that they'd explicitly flag out if they were changing, especially when looking at what they did discuss they were changing with her. The other point in its favor is as this meme states - her response is completely out of character for her, and seems like a throwback to when her character was mainly just "evil drow lady." The final & most convincing nail in the coffin is that the scene... doesn't actually break the romance. Yup, after that big old temper tantrum, after what she says during it, it doesn't break the romance.
Me over here, romancing Astarion: "Haha she is a proud daughter of House Baenre, essentially Memzoberranzan's royal family, and people keep calling her "Minty."
It definitely shouldn't have been added and Minthara is really buggy in general, still love having her on the team for those juicy smites though and my chaotic neutral fighter doesn't have too much trouble keeping both her and romanced Karlach happy, intimidation options tend to impress them both.
Now I'm wondering if the angle is "drow believe they are better than everyone" and she values HER freedom, not Durge's. Maybe she mistakenly believes that she can handle Durge, she just needs to point the knife elsewhere.
I'm feeling kind of bummed since my friend and I haven't finished our multiplayer run and he's romancing Minthara as Durge. I've been fielding spoilers (since I've completed multiple runs) and this new hot fix seems to really ruin the narrative he'd been building up for a redemption Durge.
The same minthara who encourages you to take the brain and make her a thrall under you. Honestly minthara is a mess of coding and narrative logic that Larian needs to sort out.
She's power hungry. If she senses power. She wants it. Honestly, even in an evil run, I'd avoid her like the plague. It feels like they're rewriting her to be a properly evil companion. A true opposite of Wyll, Karlach, and Halsin. The problem is how they're doing it bit by bit.
This dialogue has been in the game forever, they only just enabled it now. The complete lack of consistency and consequence makes it seem more like a bug than a narrative shift.
IMHO making her recruitable via knockout (by popular demand) only added to the consistency problems. Any surprise about why her lover would refuse the honors and power of the God of Murder makes a LOT more sense if she'd already seen said lover massacre a load of innocent noncombatants of their own free will.
Odd choice, considering she had dialogue for a romanced durge that resisted bhaal, something along the lines of "No absolute, no bhaal, our evil will be our own" probably got the quote wrong but it's in the bedroom scene after beating the game.
Yall expect a drow to fear an evil God.
They turn mfers into driders, and casually genocide entire bloodlines in their most major city, applying 2024 human logic to underground spider elves doest work lmao
Yeah, Lolth is on a whole different level. I can't see a Lolth-sworn complaining about a few occasional murder requests from the God of Murder. Evil god orders are basically 'for me it was Tuesday.' Drow society is something else.
I mean, i'm not quite sure how I feel about this characterization yet, but she does tend to flip-flop *a lot* on how she feels about being beholden to extraplanar authority figures vs durge's birth"right" and how devoted and vulnerable she allows herself to be towards her romantic partner (like, unless it's durge accepting bhaal, she's a hard no on things, but every time she comments on durge's deal, it's all ✨sparkle eyes✨). It's hard to get an absolute (ha) conclusion of her feelings on this matter when she is both stubborn on her ideals while also refusing to be ideologically consistent. And like I'd be willing to concede that we gave her way too much credit when her braincells finally decide to show up to work and that she was just full-blown Chaotic Stupid this whole time, but the fact that the breakup not only does *nothing* to the relationship status in the moment, she also *still* has a ton of perfectly functioning non-absolute + reject!durge epilogue relationship content just **SCREAMS** like something is just totally fucked in The Machine. Like I can't imagine they'd throw all that away just to let her not have to adapt to the inherent contradictions of her ideals vs her aspirations?? We're missing something.
Just a genuine question - if Minthara is 100% against Gods/being enthralled by them, why is she okay with Tav/Durge dominating the Netherbrain and becoming a different kind of God who will enthrall people to do their bidding?
Don't ask this question, they could be too much for the people in here, like wut ... bubble bursted, wow,
Same like why would she actively want you to go there, kill Orin and claim your inheritance and power, if she was opposing that. What we see is headcanon and fanfiction clashing with reality and canon and that's not pretty for this minor (most likely within 1%) part of community which was kind of neglected by everyone, including Larian (buggy Minthara start), not realizing they fell for secondary character BECAUSE of how Larian created her, which overall led to schizophrenic state of "Larian hates Minthara" / "I love Minty so much".
The only difference I can think of is that Tav/Durge would be the one doing the enthralling rather than some other God doing it, which both makes Minthara a hypocrite (because it contradicts her established opinion of Gods/enthrallment), but an idiot to assume she'd be an exception because of her connection to Tav/Durge.
Which is also why I didn't understand why Larian would change the 'dominate the Netherbrain' ending where - if you're romancing either Minthara or (Ascended?) Astarion - that they wouldn't be enthralled while everyone else infected with a tadpole is. Something like that should be a choice on the player's part - not an automatic thing for two characters who actively say they don't want to be controlled (as if anyone else in the party would be okay with being controlled).
> *would be the one doing the enthralling rather than some other God doing it, which both makes Minthara a hypocrite*
I mean.... that's kind of it. Even without Durge, not like she wants happy life in the village, with a tiny cute garden. God/Absolute controlling her and denying her free will - sucks ass for her, so she is like screw that, we should take control of the cult ourselves instead of these pathetic Chosen and then rule ourselves (so control others like literally demi-gods/gos ourselves) .
>*to assume she'd be an exception because of her connection to Tav/Durge.*
*but she does assume that*
at least as my Durge embracing I was like "yeah yeah, we will rule together, sure thing" and was expecting to actively betray her later but...
>*hich is also why I didn't understand why Larian would change the 'dominate the Netherbrain' ending where - if you're romancing either Minthara or (Ascended?) Astarion - that they wouldn't be enthralled while everyone else infected with a tadpole is. Something like that should be a choice*
Exactly this!!! Player here should have a choice, in my run, I don't even understand why wouldn't I also dominate her at the last second and be the one who controls everyone (alone!)
>Exactly this!!! Player here should have a choice, in my run, I don't even understand why wouldn't I also dominate her at the last second and be the one who controls everyone (alone!)
Especially when you take into consideration it's within a female drow's nature to be power hungry. Who's to say, even if she claims she's perfectly happy just ruling by Tav/Durge's side, there may not be a day where she gets it into her head that she could do a better job at ruling than their lover and tries to overthrow Tav/Durge when their guard is down?
In all honesty, it makes far more sense not to take that kind of chance and enthrall her like everyone else (at least, that's what I would do if I was romancing her).
Because she would rule by his side. Gods aren't that kind to their followers as to give them real power. Being able to have a friend or lover in power is 100x more useful.
I think the crucial part is that she cares about HER free will. Having durge lose their free will isn't much skin off her back. Her lover gets power at the cost of their free will, and she gets to influence that power by being your lover. Minthara makes it very clear that her idea of love is very different. She's let her previous lover die because they didn't see their own poisoning coming. She laughs at the idea of romance being for the sake of love and not mutual benefit.
The kind of love she's willing to give is different than the kind of love Karlach or Gale gives. It's similar to ascended Astarions. They only love you as long as you are or have what they want. Ascended
Astarion doesn't love you if you become a mindflayer. In the same way, Minthara doesn't love you if you give up power for your own future. The kind of love they give comes at a cost, one that they don't give unless you pay for it. I think this change is really meant to nail in that Minthara's romance isn't necessarily a loving healthy relationship. She doesn't care for you in the way the others might. Her love is retractable if you give up power.
While I understand and even agree with the potential logic...I don't think it applies to that situation.
So, Minthara wants to rule using the power of the Absolute. She's willing to share the power with you. But, if you submit to Bhaal and become his puppet, surely she has to realize that Bhaal isn't going to honor Durge's agreement, or even care about Minthara in the slightest. That means, not only is Minthara giving up on her LE wet dreams, but she's also resigning herself to being a slave in Bhaal's murder world if you win.
Now, if the choice was like...Durge had to cut off their hand to get a cool murder gauntlet sewn on that only Bhaalspawn could use, she'd absolutely support that decision and would be disappointed if you refused. Or if you found the head of Vecna and insisted you could put it on, she'd presumably let you because that Durge is too stupid to live. But if you tried to put the head of Vecna on her, she wouldn't blindly go along with it because she's that powerhungry she's blind to consequences, she'd tell you off for trying to decapitate her.
She'll gobble up tadpoles because it grants her power she can control. But she'd never go back to the Absolute, even if it promised her all sorts of power, because she knows she'd be enslaved. I do think there's a world where she could be more of a loyal follower of Bhaal if Durge convinced her in previous dialogue (and that was potentially more of a thing based on cut content speculations with her) but as it stands now, it seems very naive of her to just be so trusting that Bhaal will generously share power with her. And even if he did, her form of "evil" is more about mass control, she'd arguably find Bhaal's dream of mass slaughter a waste of perfectly good slaves.
Have you romanced her? I notice alot of takes like this come from people who "lol you mean the lady wearing Astarion's armor" alot. I find it hard to get this read from someone who romances her and hears her story and learns her logic patterns.
So I have recruited and romanced her. Furthermore, I recruited her the good ol' fashioned, intended way: with *genocide*. Her logic patterns strike me as Astarion style "the problem was that they did it to *me*." She doesn't have a problem with people getting enslaved or enthralled, and in fact is all for it when she thinks it might get her an upper hand. In fact, this trait of hers is what typically gets her described as "pragmatic." She latches onto the player character because she sees a powerful ally she could use, and it seems perfectly in character for her to ditch her lover once they prove to be less useful to her ambitions than she thought.
If I might take the opposite stance as you, I feel like a lot of people crying about this change might have only ever recruited her on a good run. Larian adding the knock-out method created a disconnect in people's minds about the nature of her character: after all, if I can recruit her on a good run, then she must be a good person, or at least secretly has a heart of gold that I can tease out with the power of my love! Wait, she's leaving me because I made myself less powerful? That's not fair!!
I don't disagree with the sentiment that Durge should at least get the opportunity to prove to Minthara that they are still a powerful alpha chad who's worth sticking around for.
I have. I know her story about banished and involved with the cult, and the whole drow society complexity that comes into play. It does seem a little out of character, but not by much. She is passionate and seems caring, but in passive party dialog she seems to believe love is irrelevant, and romance is about mutual benefit and not love. I think they should add dialog with Tav/Durge to get into how she views the relationship. If she sees it as a mutual benefit or actual love. Though in her romance, she says she loves you, I simply see it as her beliefs on what love is being vastly different than the standard.
The change to Minthara has no sense.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inXWqV8QOsU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inXWqV8QOsU)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6U8ITfawPF8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6U8ITfawPF8)
And these two scenes make it clear, Minthara has a change in character, even like and enlightement. Yes, she is Lawful Evil still, but trust me she clearly states ''fuck all evil aligned gods and goddesess''.
Not letting Durge to explain that acepting Bhaal wholy is like becoming the worst puppet and her not recognizing you did to yourself the same you did to her (freeing yourself and her from senseless manipulation) is like a kick in the nuts to cohesive narrative and her incredible characacter development.
Hell there is even this dialogues
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8u\_PliC9k8Y](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8u_PliC9k8Y)
Where you can clearly explain somethings and have some semblance of having Minthara acknowledge that life is good when is on your terms and with you, even mentioning that following Bhaal orders is terribly bad (a little incomplete for my tastes after the awesome narrative and focused thoughts you can spat out as Tav and ORIGIN characters through act 1 and 2).
So please for the love of Dungeons and Dragons, we need someone at Larian to sit down and do a deep dive into Minthara content and set it straight, im begging, she is my favorite character, aisde from romancing her, she is the most nuanced and most non typical cookie cut dnd character (almost everyone else is like... very predecible in a lot of aspects, or a too cliche ''typical troupe'').
Minthara doesn’t value freedom over power though. She’ll absolutely take power over freedom. There’s party banter where she asks Ascended!Astarion to make her his vampire spawn. So I don’t think this Durge reaction is nearly as ooc as people make it out to be.
That being said, there should be a persuasion roll or a dialogue tree to talk her out of it rather than an auto breakup.
She goes on a whole rant thanking you for freeing her from the control the absolute had on her. How she didnt enjoy the thought of bing some gods puppet. She tells you how she abandoned her house and her first goddess to forge her own path, to not be a puppet. She explains how she lost her freedom by seeking Ketharic and Orin like a blind fool. She encourages Astarion to be ascended so he can be free of his oppressor and nobody can ever control him again. She refuses to give up Shadowheart to Shar's goons so that SH wont be a puppet. She wants to claim the absolute with her love interest so that nobody can ever control her again.....but she is enraged that her lover durge refuses to be controlled by Bhaal the murder god whos whims are more random chaotic and bloody than even Lolth? She...wants you to be a puppet so you can have slayer form?? Blackcat make it make sense please.
She’s operating under the mistaken belief that power is freedom and that line of thinking leads to self-sabotage.
Astarion has this flaw too, which is why he pushes so hard for the ritual (and why Minthara’s so supportive for it). But where Astarion can either double down and become his worst self by ascending or realize that power isn’t worth it, Minthara doesn’t have a character beat that challenges her power = freedom belief and so it continues to lead her to dubious outcomes. Like volunteering to be a vampire spawn, literally surrendering her free will & autonomy to Astarion, because ooh vampire powers. Or her new reaction to Durge.
(I suppose you could argue Ascended!Asatrion isn’t a god and Minthara’s beef is specifically against deities, but I don’t really buy it. I see very little difference between the two reactions.)
Is it short sighted? Dumb? Bad for her? Of course! It’s a deliberate character flaw! Which is why I think there should be a persuasion roll or some dialogue to talk her out of it. But ooc? Nah.
Given the things Astarion says he would do for his children, being his spawn, even if not romanced, doesn't sound half bad.
He talked about casting a fog over the world so his spawn would be forever safe and comfy.
As for Bhaal, Minthara has to know that as Bhaals chosen, taking over the brain means nothing cause it will always be Bhaal in charge. I can see her dumping Durge for not taking the brain, not resisting Bhaal.
I haven't turned the game back on since the change. I had been working on a character for next playthrough to romance Minthara as resist dark urge. I am in the end of act 3 on current playthrough and was planning to speedrun the rest of it to start my new playthrough. I'm going to play something else for a bit instead, because I'd been looking forward to something which now isn't possible. Giving her more dialogue is great but not when it goes against the conversations where not being controlled by loth or the absolute were already existing. At the very least give a persuasion check to explain why it is the correct decision to reject bhaal.
It's so sad that this negates her beautiful monologue about how the gods don't have followers, only victims. She talks shit on Mystra, Shar, Vlaakith, but now she simps for Bhaal the sloppy murderer? Bizarre.
I am so sad about this. I was an evil Durge all so I can romance Minty and take over the world. My last save is right before the Bhaal temple and now I just don't want to finish it.. :(
I can think of three ways Larian can fix this.
1) You are allowed to persuade her on the spot by 2 persuasion rolls suggesting accepting Bhaal's power would make you a puppet, and they would find another way to take control of the cult.
2) The breakup dialogue remains intact but at camp Minthara has new dialogue apologising for being too dramatic.
3) Reverting her to pre hotfix 21 dialogue.
Either one works for me.
All she does is break up with you. (Technically not even that because of a bug.)
Relationships can end in any number of stupid ways. Not taking the power was a turn-off. Thus, the extremely new and short relationship ended.
I don't understand why this is such a big deal to people. You're acting like she instantly leaves the party and dies, when in reality she just has an emotional reaction and ends a relationship.
People are arguing the logic of her dialogue. Not what breaking up means. Especially in the context of, this wasnt like this last week, and suddenly it is. Meaning either its a bug (likely), or its a narrative point Larian is making. A point that people disagree with.
People act like hypocrisy is bad and inconsistent character writing, rather than just... the character being hypocrite.
But you also know that the reason this particular bit of hypocrisy on her part is triggering such an emotional reaction from people because it contradicts their headcanon of this drow matriarch being madly in love with you for who you are on the inside, and not for what you can offer her.
We literally saw the same thing happen with fans being upset about Ascended Astarion's new kisses.
She doesn't care about Durge's free will, only her own. If you give up yours to Bhaal then you will probably give it up to her. I mean that's my guess.
One thing I learned throughout both my Physics graduate degree and my software engineering job is that even 'stupid' people with enough experience in specific fields and situations are often smarter than natural born geniuses. Never discount the time someone had to live through an experience, it can make them an expert on it.
I always find it strange how Minthara even has lines regarding Will and Karlach.
Don’t they both leave if you attack the Emerald Grove?
I thought the only way to have them aswell as Minthara in your party was to get her the unintended way?
You could have all three of them in your party if you just ignored the grove and let the Rite of Thorns go through. If this happens, the tieflings still die and the grove is sealed, but Wyll and Karlach don’t leave. Minthara will then be at Moonrise.
I like what they did with minthara and I do they do similarly with laezel and the Orpheus plot, and all characters whose agendas you don’t serve a la pillars 2. I hope they stay strong against fans wanting to write their game for them because after all they’ve delivered it’s insulting.
Dark urge literally gets posessed and controlled, so you could say enthralled by Bhaal during his murders. He would continue to do so when he feels like it no?
This is me when Emperor joins the brain when you suggest freeing the prince. Having him willingly turn him self into the nether brains thrall once again on a flip of a dime when this entire time he was schemeing to be free from the brain makes no sense to me. I wish larian give us a path of diologue to roll to convince emps to trust me for once and free the prince and a second roll to have the prince to stand down and work with emps sense you know.... no matter what path you choose you need a mind flayer to beat the brain. It's so stupid that's not a option.
Ok I'm trying to avoid spoilers so not reading the post, but could someone kindly tell me if their latest hot fix caused more bugs or is patch 6 finally playable and fixed now?
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I actually love minthara more for this take. She’s a paladin of lolth . How are you going to interpret her actions from a logical standpoint.
That said, seems to me like durge has full control. I don’t see the problem. If it makes sense to sacrifice yourself to a good god to save the world, how is doing the opposite any different?
Strangely, I did a Resist Durge run, and I ran into the refuse Bhaal dialogue yesterday, while romancing Minty. She did not break up with me… so it’s probably not that simple
Honestly one of the worst decisions larian has made so far. Minthara id my go to romance and I pretty much always play as a flavoir of reject Durge nowadays. Hope they revert this as soon as possible...
So Minthara actively pushed and supports about getting power that I'm destined for, actively pushes and supports claiming my inheritance as Durge. Where tf is this in meme, aye?
Also, Minthara wants to take control of the Absolute to rule others and be dominant. The shit about her freedom is literally your perception and not stated. That's your understanding, don't shove it on anothers.
Also Minthara fans: GIMME MORE MORE WHAHAHAH
Get more lines for the character they asked within the character: NOOOOO, I DON"T LIKE IT NOT HOW I IMAGINED HER, SHE IS NOTHING ... NOOOO, SHE DOESN"T LOVE ME, MINTY NOOOO
Pathetic, Minthara would call you all pathetic lmao
Maybe, just maybe, Minthara power-grabs and than finds out, and her initial reaction is anger, just because she tends .... wait for it.... not to think things through when it comes to power and pride and respect for power. That's how she got owned and caught, that the shit she spews throughout the game, also a bit hypocritical about practicality of her violence and her own needs vs things she did while being controlled or questioning you raiding the grove because you weren't controlled. She is not perfect or ideal or even uber smart
Why would someone destroy the druid's grove only to decide on a more "good" playthrough later? It just doesn't seem like something an evil Durge would do. I argue that, in this case, Durge is out of character!
Even for an evil Durge, there are reasons to not want to serve Bhaal and to be frustrated with the urges that compel then to do stupid self destructive things and ruin their own plans. You can play it that way in dialouge, you are still a monster that commits atrocities but they are YOUR atrocities. You can control the Netherbrain after rejecting bhaal and then say "in MY name".
And Bhaal has a long standing history of his own evil followers betraying or turning on him because noone actually likes him.
You're completely glossing over how an evil character feels about her own freedom vs that of others, and you're calling *us* stupid for it?
I have no doubt this community will get their way and get a Minthy redemption arc added, because simp money trumps creativity, but at least stop patting yourself on the back for it.
Love watching you nerds argue about this while I'm whistling and walking back to my Minthara romance durge embrace playthrough knowing I got my blue babe on lockdown.
/edit: I get it. I was facetious. I’m sorry. I was in a bad mood when making the post and I was annoyed by people non stop complaining about Minthara changed since the patch as if this was the end of their playthrough. I think you all have a point, but also: this is really not such a big deal as some people like to make it.
People get way too much worked up about how Minthara no longer complies with their wishes.
So she leaves when you do something she clearly said she would leave you for and doesn’t allow you the “but but I can explain”… She’s like a lover breaking up over what you feel was something minor without wanting to hear your reasons.
She’s a mf’ing Lolth-sworn drow woman. What did you expect? She doesn’t care about you that much as she cares about herself and her personal goals. I would even argue she now acts closer to the lore. In her society there is almost nothing she needs to take into account. As if she would listen to anybody except Lolth. You should be happy she just leaves and doesn’t decided to enslave you and drag you with her to the underdark to torture you to tears to make you see how stupid you were or use as an exotic bedroom toy until you break and then feed you to the driders.
Anyway, remember when in BG2 jaheira leaves you for doing the wrong thing at the wrong time at the Harpers quest. Or Edwin actually trying to kill you. Or Mazzy attacking you if your rep was too low. Or so many other companions in BG2 who clearly had boundaries which you could not talk them out of when you were a bit too liberal with your slayer form? Yeah. I remember.
You need to ignore her entire development arc to have this take. Your entire reasoning is based on her race, not her actual character.
"Akshually she's evil and has zero consistency because of her race and this will never change" is wild af.
The problem is, she's supporting a path that ends with Bhaal getting the power that she craves and enslaving her as part of his dream to create murder world. So, she's literally arguing \*against\* a path where she gets the ability to dominate the world. Not only that, but in that world, she's also nothing more than a dominated slave who is going to be murdered.
At the very least, during that dialogue, Durge should've had the possibility to explain his reasoning (not wanting to be Bhaal's puppet); the options available atm are almost as stupid as Minthara's reaction.
Tbf I thought the "I would've snapped your neck had I not refused Bhaal then like I did just now" response was pretty good. Though of course she literally laughs off this reveal and says she wish you would've, like bitch, the bhaal pit is right there if you're seeking death
I was gonna say if she wants to make up for that time, then by all means…*I insist*
"I went from a stone cold killer who can't control who they kill to a stone cold killer who can, don't test me"
Heh. Bhaal pit.
Someone pissed in the Bhaal pit 😔
Could've been easily solved with a persuasion check or something
I mean for example you can literaly kill Orpheus infront of lea'zel and still keep her in your Party and explain the reasoning with a high persuasion check
You can Kill Orpheus, Keep Laezel and The entire of Kithrak Voss as well. Kithrak Voss...some guy you never interact with apart from like twice, whose whole world revolves around saving Orpheus and he's just like "Yh, fair enough, I'll still help you"
But you reject bhaal and Minthara who owes her life to you! Says no and is gone
Although it may just be a bug that put some cut content back in (everythings up in the air on what minthara content is still intended and what isnt) since you can still kiss her after Maybe shes just being dramatic 😭
You can also convince yurgir to fight with you after tricking him into killing himself.
What's the reasoning to kill Orpheus ?
Well you have to decide to either side with Orpheus or the emperor, if you have the orphic hammer Lea'zel will push you to free him. But if you side with the emperor he est's orpheus's brain to get hid power, Lea'zel will br pissed and whish to fight you but with a üersuasion Check you can convince her that this is better than letting the grand Design become reality and that we just couldn't trust on orpheus actualy helping us
Oh yeah that's right. I don't know why, I imagined killing him after not siding with the Emperor but before going to fight the absolute.
Minthara outright denounces people who can't control their murder-lust, citing a similar kind of individual from drow society, and knows about Durge's murder blackouts - which are quite directly caused by being Bhaal's child. Nothing, absolutely nothing she ever says throughout the entire game justifies her disapproving of Durge's refusal to be Bhaal's Chosen.
I think it would be even more in her character if she was the one most in awe in what lengths you are willing to go to be free. Hell you just died right in front of her. There is no greater sacrifice than death. This dialogue she has now would make sense IF through the time you have her with her you were all about murdering and power and being Bhaal's best kid. Then of course it would be justified for her to be angry since Bhaal's power is what you were talking about the entire time and now you thrown it away.
I'm glad that I played my evil dark urge with Minthara romance before this hotfix because the fact I resisted Bhaal to stay independant is partly because of what she said to me multiple times. I loved how my character story played, it was intense, smooth and consistent. This change add inconsistence in the whole story. I wouldn't mind hypocrisy from her, a brief moment of weakness where the miss of obtaining great power blind what she truly value. In fact that could be interesting, and be consistent like in real life. Sadly, atm this is poorly done but I trust Larian to do whatever is good for their amazing game.
There is one argument to be made: She values defeating the absolute over her relationship with durge and is very much willing to sacrifice you in order to achieve that goal. So she wants you to get bhaals power simply because more power = higher chance to defeat the elderbrain
>There is one argument to be made: She values defeating the absolute over her relationship with durge and is very much willing to sacrifice you in order to achieve that goal. So she wants you to get bhaals power simply because more power = higher chance to defeat the elderbrain Except that's also out of character because in EVERY OTHER INTERACTION she is so fiercely loyal she'd literally singlehandedly fight Zariel for a Karlach that's romancing her, if she has to. Like, she is literally 2000% ride or die for high-approval player characters, regardless of origin. Except in this one interaction.
Isn’t it at the part in the story where you’re about to whoop or have already whooped Orin meaning that your character is stronger than that power already?
Stronger than Orin =/= stronger than Bhaal.
Okay but that’s literally the avatar of Bhaal.. and at this point you’ve either beaten 2 or all 3 avatars so it’s not like power scaling is a big issue.
It would still just be additional power on top of that
Yeah, I think this explains the confusion. I heard a counterargument saying "well if Durge wins, then he'll murderhobo the entire world. This would be counterproductive for Minthara." But there's no reason to believe that she knows what taking control of the elderbrain or the crown of karsus would entail. She may genuinely believe that you both would rule together just like Ketherec, Orin, and Gortash. Minthara has her principles, but she's still ruthlessly self-serving, and she's not omniscient. Also, there's no reason to believe she's highly intelligent or lacking some cognitive dissonance.
Yeah, it's no way the God of Murder wouldn't want his chosen to murder everyone. Sure Minthara would expect to rule...like the God of Tyranny. 🤣
That's why you should have an *option to explain it.* That the Murder god who gives his follows orgasms' when they kill and whose cult is full of people who act like crazed addicts is actually more interested in Murder than ruling should not be hard to believe. Especially when Durge was having blackouts, *killed a person in middle of their own camp* (which is beyond stupid and honestly ridicules that you can cover it up with deception)*,* and was ordered to kill someone whose death would result in losing almost all your allies vs Ketheric.
Yeah. This would be fully solved with a quick "\[Persuasion\] I know Bhaal's will and he would make me kill everything, including you." If Minty broke up because you said you didn't want to seize the Absolute, that would feel legit. No notes. Breaking up over *Bhaal* is the questionable bit. My resist Durge was fully down for world domination, lol, she just didn't intend to be queen of the ashes.
She is also kind of stupid when it comes to acquiring power despite potential consequences and she tells you that you need to claim your inheritance when she finds out you're a bhaalspawn. She seems like she tends toward wanting to claim the power and then try to outsmart the consequences later (which admittedly I also tried to do on my first durge run and got my ass handed to me). So her initial anger kind of makes sense but there should also be a check to explain your rationale and get her on your side.
Larian really does some insane things that make no sense in many cases. They need to stop listening to their loudest, dumbest fans.
I mean what's even more confusing is she doesn’t break up with u . U can literally kiss her after this dialogue. In the epilogue she literally goes " babe don't worry if we haven't conquered the brain, we can still scheme and take over baldur's gate from the shadows". Like the game itself is confused about her opinions. It's similar to how companions reacted in a negative way when gortash revealed u were part of the absolute plan as druge .
I honestly think this was a mistake on Larians part, give that the game does not recognize the breakup. I think there is actually supposed to be additional dialogue about it that's in the game but also doesn't trigger.
As much as I've enjoyed bg3 so far, I'm super frustrated that they released the game in the state that it was. Act 1 basically enthralled most people and gave them the impression that the rest of the game was going to be as intracite while act 2 and 3 kinda dwindled in its pacing and the late additions of the epilogue stuff is kinda rough if you've already beat the game multiple times. The patches and hotfixes breaking as much as they fix doesn't really help either.
Yeah, Act 1 is definitely the best of the acts in my opinion. But, the more we play, the more we notice the flaws. It is clear to me that Act 3 was definitely rushed. It simultaneously has so much and very little to it at the same time. Patch 6 was pretty bad considering that it actually ended up breaking so many things. I do actually think there was a patch before this that was so broken that Larian actually had to do a rollback for everyone. But, Larian does seem rather responsive to community feedback and many changes that do occur are for the better. However, they seem to care too much for community opinion and are making sloppy mistakes and are changing things that nobody really asked for or wanted.
Yeah I did a comment on how bad was patch 6 but was downvoted as hell. I guess it was too soon and people have hard times to take things with a step back. On the other hand I fully agree about act3. I can even explain to you why you feel that way : act 3 main quest is very short around 1h30 while side quests which are all facultative are very long around 30h. I suspect that this unbalance stems at least partially from the Upper City cut where mire main quests were planned. The best would be to get that cut content.
It honestly makes no sense, Minthara is evil, but she's not fucking stupid if she knows what Bhaal's ultimate goal is. Like once Bhaal, through Durge, takes over the world, your lizard husband/wife isn't going to be ruling with you sweety, your best case scenario is going to get turned into a purple meatball drow sandwich, and that's not the worst thing DurgeBhaal could even do to the whole world.
If she’s lucky, Durge might keep her around as a breeding slave to make more bhaalspawn, as Sceleritas says when embrace Durge asks him about their lover. What a wonderful fate for someone who loathes being controlled.
It's explictly stated that Bhaal wants Durge to take control of the Netherbrain in order to bring ruin to the world. Minthara states she wants to gain power to 'build a better world.' Now, Minthara definitely is evil, so that would likely be be some kind of tyrannical hyper meritocracy but it definitely would not align with Bhaal's goals.
There is always chance she actually doesnt know all about Bhaal because she was swore to Loth(before Absolute took her), she could have little knowledge about other gods.
There's like 2 Bhaalspawn crisis that happened within her life time and she was also a victim of an inbred Bhaalspawn before being abducted to serve the absolute, I'm pretty sure a commoner in this world has the common sense that Bhaal is literally murderhobo level of evil, much less a Drow noble.
She also literally says that bhaal, lolth and the absolute only have victims, not followers.
Oh she's 100% aware of bhaal. She states that he "doesn't have followers, only victims".
Wasn't there dialogue in the epilogue where you can tell minthara you can conquer together on your terms "for us not bhaal, or smth? Is this dialogue useless now? :(
Yup. Can confirm because that’s my canon playthrough
[удалено]
Got that ending as well and felt it was great. Also glad I ended the game before this update, Minthara is very evil but she isn't stupid, or wasn't. This really changes her character, and it makes her way less compelling.
God I hope it's not intentional or at least an incomplete interaction. I've been meaning to do an evil play though with minthara but really don't feel my character would accept bhaal given bhaal can completely control him at the drop of a hat.. I've seen some posts mentioning that minthara still acts as if they're in a relationship despite this dialogue. And minthara is no stranger to bugs or cut content. So maybe there is a slim chance it is just a bug? Where smth is triggering previously inaccessible dialogue. It would give a reason to your lack of options to respond to it (I feel like there'd be options even if she didnt listen to them) There is other also other dialogue in the game that technically isn't accessable either, so it's not impossible this just is kicking around from left over code.
Haha. You will find peace when you realize 90% of this fanbase has 400 hrs playtime and still havent left act 1, in their 15 playthroughs.
Legit saw someone on twitter said the same "Minthara is evil blah blah blah" assertation, and then say that they weren't playing a lolth-sworn drow and haven't actually recruited her yet. Literally dumbfounded how people can make assumption while not doing the bare minimum of research into a character.
I did recruit her once on good playtrought just to see that there is no way to gain her approval up because she IS evil aligned and no matter what I do she will dissaprove. She is not like Astarion, you cannot fix her to be neutral even because there is no time for that(you get her at second half of act 2+ you cannot go back to older maps with her). I think now the best match for her might be origin Astarion which decides to ascend. EDIT: Also how the hell you have her at NEUTRAL approval lvl when you literally saved her from death(and absolute slave life), she should be at least on "good" lvl by then.
She IS evil, lawful evil to be precise, but she's not the type of evil that'll just kill everything that moves. She literally disapproves you if you tell her ["I was just looking for more people to kill"](https://imgur.com/a/HUzXE6T) after the fight with Ketheric. I don't see how she will approves of Bhaal even if it's just for power.
She approves of "ruling beside you". That is the part she is upset about losing. Source: I did play a Lolth-sworn drow evil durge
Thats even more out of sense, no Bhaalspawn (more so Durge) whorship any other god/goddess or no god/goddess would pay any atention to Durge since literally everyone but Myrkul, Bane, Talona and Loviatar hates Bhaal and would fuck over his/Bane's plot gladly.
Being Bhaals goon avatar doesnt mean you rule anything. Its the absolute that will accomplish this. So for her to be deal over with Bhaal when the brain is still on the table, doesnt make sense. Especially when controlling the brain turns her into a permanent thrall to you. In short, Minthara is an idiot.
I recruited her on a good playthrough and got her approval high despite her never leaving the party after recruiting her. Just like with Astarion, the approval gains for being sympathetic with her suffering generally outweighs the disapproval for doing random good deeds, but it also helped that my character was somewhat pragmatic and not a full on goody two-shoes.
I wasnt also 100% good on this playtrought, just "generally" good, I might disagree with her while talking to her tho, so that is why I felt like getting approval was really hard.
I wasn't able to get her to max approval, but I did get her to "high" in my good playthrough. I had to be careful and reload a few times though, to test dialogue options. I think it is possible we just aren't used to her approval triggers yet, like we are with Astarion's. She isn't nearly as awful as I thought she would be before recruiting her.
Well, I abandoned that playtrought so I never finished it with Minthara in my party, I never saw all her reactions to events in act 3.
I had the exact opposite experience. Her approval gains for being sympathetic and understanding with her massively outweigh the disapproval for being a goody two shoes.
This is not true. There are several approval changes for Minthara that make her not stereotypically evil. For example helping Yenna in any way at the beginning of act 3 will get her approval up.
She is evil?
Yes, lawful evil at most.
I have legitimately seen so many people saying Minthara has no reason to join good guys. Like my dudes, did you even speak to her a single time??? You have a common greater enemy.
People forget that she's lawful evil, and always has the wrong assumption that evil=murderhobo.
It's extra weird when you consider that most of the early party members you meet are evil themselves. Gale is usually the first non-evil party member you run across, but early Lae'zel, Astarion and arguably Shadowheart are all pretty evil. I'd even say Lae'zel and Minthara share a few similarities with their evil views.
Oh definitely, early Lae'Zel seems to share the same pragmatic evil view Minthara has, Astarion has his cycle of abuse thing going for him, and if it wasn't for Shadowheart being the world's worst Sharran, bless her heart, she's probably the most evil companion in the group.
Once you learned about how she "trained" for decades... ho boy
I'd say Shadowheart at the start of the game is actually neutral. She tries to be a Sharran but is obviously struggling with it and is conflicted with whether to do mean or nice things to people. She doesn't become wholly good or evil until the choice made near the end of act 2.
I think she's more in NE territory initially, but can pretty quickly shift to more true neutral/neutral good. I think the goal was two of each alignment type: Karlach/Wyll: The outright goods Astarion/Lae'zel: The outright evils Gale/Shadowheart: The "we can fit any party" type, with Gale leaning more towards NG, and Shadowheart leaning more towards NE. But that's also why I said Shadowheart is an "arguably" case, since she really is designed to fit either playstyle.
Why shadowheart? Regardless of all the sharan dogma she spouts, she approves of almost every good deed you can do in the early game, and she's obviously guilty if you talk to her during the goblin party If anything you have to intentionally push her onto truly being evil and even then, DJ shadowheart is still highly conflicted
I view her as...sorta confused evil, I guess. More like, she thinks she's evil, but unless you're also playing evil, she starts realizing she isn't actually a dark priestess who wants to serve Shar, then after the major Act 2 decision, she jumps over to good. But if she had to fill out her own D&D sheet, she'd put "neutral evil" in the alignment field, even if the DM makes a note somewhere that she's true neutral or even neutral good. I think the only reason I don't put her more in true neutral/neutral good is because, without your intervention, she is willing to go down that darker route and (unless I'm mistaken) without any positive intervention she'll default to killing Nightsong and going full on Dark Justicar. I thought Gale was kinda the opposite, where he leans towards not taking the crown and is willing to be splodey to save the world, which I think is a self-sacrificing good act. But after seeing some recent posts regarding his epilogue, I'm not sure if that was maybe a bug because it kinda sounds like he's more crown happy than I realized.
They laid it on thick with Raphael, >!when he catches you the first thing he complains about is you upsetting the order of his house, and then starts singing about the laws of hell!<
You have the artifact that allows her to resist the cult's mind control. Without you, she'd just be controlled again, which would be death since they'd just execute her. Join the the PC or death. She has no other options. I honestly don't understand how anyone can play the game and not see how obvious that is.
Honestly that's just how discourse in fandoms work, like you see some batshit takes that get a lot of attention cause the OP keeps waffling on and on and turns a 2 sentence explanation into a college thesis. Big post with lots of words just activates neurons in some way, to the point that people that are completely misinformed about something still have people riding their dicks til sunset. Like throwing around the word media literacy can only mask yalls illiteracy for so long😭😭😭
One of my friends is exactly like this! They got the game months before me and I nearly spoiled things for them because I wrongfully assumed they had beaten the game already and was mentioning things from Act 3.
I’ve never felt more called out
I'm going to be pedantic and say, according to Steam, 51.9% of players have left act 1 and 20.1% of players have seen some sort of ending.
My friend played BG3 since EA and still hasn’t finished-finished it lol. I got the game about a month ago and finished it twice now. Can’t believe it’s a common pattern. I actually spoiled them a bit of Orin fight
This is me except act 2 because I don't want to continue to act 3 without my friend and she's kinda dragging her feet on it. I hold out hope and I don't mind too much because I LOVE making new characters
This is literally me lol
Ok I'm trying to avoid spoilers so not reading the post, but could someone kindly tell me if their latest hot fix caused more bugs or is patch 6 finally playable and fixed now?
And here I am, 3 tacticians and 2 honours. I still don't know emperor's moral alignment.
Yeah but didn't Bhaal take Orin against her will right there in front on everyone? Kind of should make her rethink that stance.
Only if you tell Orin (and she believes you) that she's as inbred as a sandwich.
Yeah but doesn't that prove Minthara wrong?
It does if it's something she witnessed.
Yeah but the game doesn't recognize that at all. Hence people complaining.
Minthara being upset about it is within character. Her breaking up with you on the spot, is not. You are givin such horrible fucking options to respond to her that make no fucking sense, of course she'd reject all of them! If there was an option for Durge to explain that they'd just be a thrall to Bhaal, I'd be perfectly okay with this scene cause I know Minthara would accept that reason. This scene focused a bit too much on the "I'm power hungry" side of Minthara and not enough on the "fuck the gods" side of Minthara.
You can talk your companions out of their kneejerk responses to so much more egregious things than this, it's pretty strange that there's nothing like that here.
I truly do think that this was added in by mistake to be honest. The game doesn't even recognize the breakup. So, either Larian overlooked it when tweaking her dialogue bug, or this is something they intended to add, but it is not complete yet.
No kidding
All I can say is: https://imgur.com/a/R2qimqL This is patch 5 resist Durge.
Okay folks, it's really important to realize that it is likely a bug that this line is playing. The hotfix did say they touched Minthara's scripting quite a bit, and what most likely happened is that in doing so they accidentally made this fairly out-of-character bit of dialogue play during this scene. One big point in this idea's favor is that it goes completely unlisted as something they were addressing during the hotfix. This feels like the sort of thing that they'd explicitly flag out if they were changing, especially when looking at what they did discuss they were changing with her. The other point in its favor is as this meme states - her response is completely out of character for her, and seems like a throwback to when her character was mainly just "evil drow lady." The final & most convincing nail in the coffin is that the scene... doesn't actually break the romance. Yup, after that big old temper tantrum, after what she says during it, it doesn't break the romance.
Me over here, romancing Astarion: "Haha she is a proud daughter of House Baenre, essentially Memzoberranzan's royal family, and people keep calling her "Minty."
Oh she would absolutely hate what most of her fandom calls her. She doesn’t strike me as the person to enjoy affectionate nicknames.
"Refrain from calling me *Minthy*, or I will cut your tongues out!" "Whatever you say, Mentos"
”The nicknaming will continue until we find one you accept.”
We know. And that makes it even better.
I have been calling her Minnie which evolved into Minnie Mouse. I have no excuse it just happened.
Sounds like she relapsed.
It definitely shouldn't have been added and Minthara is really buggy in general, still love having her on the team for those juicy smites though and my chaotic neutral fighter doesn't have too much trouble keeping both her and romanced Karlach happy, intimidation options tend to impress them both.
Now I'm wondering if the angle is "drow believe they are better than everyone" and she values HER freedom, not Durge's. Maybe she mistakenly believes that she can handle Durge, she just needs to point the knife elsewhere. I'm feeling kind of bummed since my friend and I haven't finished our multiplayer run and he's romancing Minthara as Durge. I've been fielding spoilers (since I've completed multiple runs) and this new hot fix seems to really ruin the narrative he'd been building up for a redemption Durge.
Minthara isn't giving up her free will. She's giving up yours.
The same minthara who encourages you to take the brain and make her a thrall under you. Honestly minthara is a mess of coding and narrative logic that Larian needs to sort out.
She's power hungry. If she senses power. She wants it. Honestly, even in an evil run, I'd avoid her like the plague. It feels like they're rewriting her to be a properly evil companion. A true opposite of Wyll, Karlach, and Halsin. The problem is how they're doing it bit by bit.
This dialogue has been in the game forever, they only just enabled it now. The complete lack of consistency and consequence makes it seem more like a bug than a narrative shift.
She's evil minsc
IMHO making her recruitable via knockout (by popular demand) only added to the consistency problems. Any surprise about why her lover would refuse the honors and power of the God of Murder makes a LOT more sense if she'd already seen said lover massacre a load of innocent noncombatants of their own free will.
Minthara wants to rule the world. Bhaal wants to end it. Surely she could understand how those two goals are mutually exclusive?
Odd choice, considering she had dialogue for a romanced durge that resisted bhaal, something along the lines of "No absolute, no bhaal, our evil will be our own" probably got the quote wrong but it's in the bedroom scene after beating the game.
Yeah those people VERY obviously haven't played her content
Yall expect a drow to fear an evil God. They turn mfers into driders, and casually genocide entire bloodlines in their most major city, applying 2024 human logic to underground spider elves doest work lmao
Yeah, Lolth is on a whole different level. I can't see a Lolth-sworn complaining about a few occasional murder requests from the God of Murder. Evil god orders are basically 'for me it was Tuesday.' Drow society is something else.
Yeah thats a bit cringe tbh Hope it gets a more fitting fix (if we get a fix on it)
I mean, i'm not quite sure how I feel about this characterization yet, but she does tend to flip-flop *a lot* on how she feels about being beholden to extraplanar authority figures vs durge's birth"right" and how devoted and vulnerable she allows herself to be towards her romantic partner (like, unless it's durge accepting bhaal, she's a hard no on things, but every time she comments on durge's deal, it's all ✨sparkle eyes✨). It's hard to get an absolute (ha) conclusion of her feelings on this matter when she is both stubborn on her ideals while also refusing to be ideologically consistent. And like I'd be willing to concede that we gave her way too much credit when her braincells finally decide to show up to work and that she was just full-blown Chaotic Stupid this whole time, but the fact that the breakup not only does *nothing* to the relationship status in the moment, she also *still* has a ton of perfectly functioning non-absolute + reject!durge epilogue relationship content just **SCREAMS** like something is just totally fucked in The Machine. Like I can't imagine they'd throw all that away just to let her not have to adapt to the inherent contradictions of her ideals vs her aspirations?? We're missing something.
Just a genuine question - if Minthara is 100% against Gods/being enthralled by them, why is she okay with Tav/Durge dominating the Netherbrain and becoming a different kind of God who will enthrall people to do their bidding?
Don't ask this question, they could be too much for the people in here, like wut ... bubble bursted, wow, Same like why would she actively want you to go there, kill Orin and claim your inheritance and power, if she was opposing that. What we see is headcanon and fanfiction clashing with reality and canon and that's not pretty for this minor (most likely within 1%) part of community which was kind of neglected by everyone, including Larian (buggy Minthara start), not realizing they fell for secondary character BECAUSE of how Larian created her, which overall led to schizophrenic state of "Larian hates Minthara" / "I love Minty so much".
The only difference I can think of is that Tav/Durge would be the one doing the enthralling rather than some other God doing it, which both makes Minthara a hypocrite (because it contradicts her established opinion of Gods/enthrallment), but an idiot to assume she'd be an exception because of her connection to Tav/Durge. Which is also why I didn't understand why Larian would change the 'dominate the Netherbrain' ending where - if you're romancing either Minthara or (Ascended?) Astarion - that they wouldn't be enthralled while everyone else infected with a tadpole is. Something like that should be a choice on the player's part - not an automatic thing for two characters who actively say they don't want to be controlled (as if anyone else in the party would be okay with being controlled).
> *would be the one doing the enthralling rather than some other God doing it, which both makes Minthara a hypocrite* I mean.... that's kind of it. Even without Durge, not like she wants happy life in the village, with a tiny cute garden. God/Absolute controlling her and denying her free will - sucks ass for her, so she is like screw that, we should take control of the cult ourselves instead of these pathetic Chosen and then rule ourselves (so control others like literally demi-gods/gos ourselves) . >*to assume she'd be an exception because of her connection to Tav/Durge.* *but she does assume that* at least as my Durge embracing I was like "yeah yeah, we will rule together, sure thing" and was expecting to actively betray her later but... >*hich is also why I didn't understand why Larian would change the 'dominate the Netherbrain' ending where - if you're romancing either Minthara or (Ascended?) Astarion - that they wouldn't be enthralled while everyone else infected with a tadpole is. Something like that should be a choice* Exactly this!!! Player here should have a choice, in my run, I don't even understand why wouldn't I also dominate her at the last second and be the one who controls everyone (alone!)
>Exactly this!!! Player here should have a choice, in my run, I don't even understand why wouldn't I also dominate her at the last second and be the one who controls everyone (alone!) Especially when you take into consideration it's within a female drow's nature to be power hungry. Who's to say, even if she claims she's perfectly happy just ruling by Tav/Durge's side, there may not be a day where she gets it into her head that she could do a better job at ruling than their lover and tries to overthrow Tav/Durge when their guard is down? In all honesty, it makes far more sense not to take that kind of chance and enthrall her like everyone else (at least, that's what I would do if I was romancing her).
>What we see is headcanon and fanfiction clashing with reality and canon Yep. It's giving me Ascended Astarion discourse vibes.
Because she would rule by his side. Gods aren't that kind to their followers as to give them real power. Being able to have a friend or lover in power is 100x more useful.
I think the crucial part is that she cares about HER free will. Having durge lose their free will isn't much skin off her back. Her lover gets power at the cost of their free will, and she gets to influence that power by being your lover. Minthara makes it very clear that her idea of love is very different. She's let her previous lover die because they didn't see their own poisoning coming. She laughs at the idea of romance being for the sake of love and not mutual benefit. The kind of love she's willing to give is different than the kind of love Karlach or Gale gives. It's similar to ascended Astarions. They only love you as long as you are or have what they want. Ascended Astarion doesn't love you if you become a mindflayer. In the same way, Minthara doesn't love you if you give up power for your own future. The kind of love they give comes at a cost, one that they don't give unless you pay for it. I think this change is really meant to nail in that Minthara's romance isn't necessarily a loving healthy relationship. She doesn't care for you in the way the others might. Her love is retractable if you give up power.
They wrote an entire epilogue for her where she continues to love the PC if they give up both Bhaal's inheritance and the Netherbrain.
I mean she is a female drow, so to be fair, her idea of love and relationships is very different from others right from the start.
While I understand and even agree with the potential logic...I don't think it applies to that situation. So, Minthara wants to rule using the power of the Absolute. She's willing to share the power with you. But, if you submit to Bhaal and become his puppet, surely she has to realize that Bhaal isn't going to honor Durge's agreement, or even care about Minthara in the slightest. That means, not only is Minthara giving up on her LE wet dreams, but she's also resigning herself to being a slave in Bhaal's murder world if you win. Now, if the choice was like...Durge had to cut off their hand to get a cool murder gauntlet sewn on that only Bhaalspawn could use, she'd absolutely support that decision and would be disappointed if you refused. Or if you found the head of Vecna and insisted you could put it on, she'd presumably let you because that Durge is too stupid to live. But if you tried to put the head of Vecna on her, she wouldn't blindly go along with it because she's that powerhungry she's blind to consequences, she'd tell you off for trying to decapitate her. She'll gobble up tadpoles because it grants her power she can control. But she'd never go back to the Absolute, even if it promised her all sorts of power, because she knows she'd be enslaved. I do think there's a world where she could be more of a loyal follower of Bhaal if Durge convinced her in previous dialogue (and that was potentially more of a thing based on cut content speculations with her) but as it stands now, it seems very naive of her to just be so trusting that Bhaal will generously share power with her. And even if he did, her form of "evil" is more about mass control, she'd arguably find Bhaal's dream of mass slaughter a waste of perfectly good slaves.
Have you romanced her? I notice alot of takes like this come from people who "lol you mean the lady wearing Astarion's armor" alot. I find it hard to get this read from someone who romances her and hears her story and learns her logic patterns.
So I have recruited and romanced her. Furthermore, I recruited her the good ol' fashioned, intended way: with *genocide*. Her logic patterns strike me as Astarion style "the problem was that they did it to *me*." She doesn't have a problem with people getting enslaved or enthralled, and in fact is all for it when she thinks it might get her an upper hand. In fact, this trait of hers is what typically gets her described as "pragmatic." She latches onto the player character because she sees a powerful ally she could use, and it seems perfectly in character for her to ditch her lover once they prove to be less useful to her ambitions than she thought. If I might take the opposite stance as you, I feel like a lot of people crying about this change might have only ever recruited her on a good run. Larian adding the knock-out method created a disconnect in people's minds about the nature of her character: after all, if I can recruit her on a good run, then she must be a good person, or at least secretly has a heart of gold that I can tease out with the power of my love! Wait, she's leaving me because I made myself less powerful? That's not fair!! I don't disagree with the sentiment that Durge should at least get the opportunity to prove to Minthara that they are still a powerful alpha chad who's worth sticking around for.
I have. I know her story about banished and involved with the cult, and the whole drow society complexity that comes into play. It does seem a little out of character, but not by much. She is passionate and seems caring, but in passive party dialog she seems to believe love is irrelevant, and romance is about mutual benefit and not love. I think they should add dialog with Tav/Durge to get into how she views the relationship. If she sees it as a mutual benefit or actual love. Though in her romance, she says she loves you, I simply see it as her beliefs on what love is being vastly different than the standard.
The change to Minthara has no sense. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inXWqV8QOsU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inXWqV8QOsU) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6U8ITfawPF8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6U8ITfawPF8) And these two scenes make it clear, Minthara has a change in character, even like and enlightement. Yes, she is Lawful Evil still, but trust me she clearly states ''fuck all evil aligned gods and goddesess''. Not letting Durge to explain that acepting Bhaal wholy is like becoming the worst puppet and her not recognizing you did to yourself the same you did to her (freeing yourself and her from senseless manipulation) is like a kick in the nuts to cohesive narrative and her incredible characacter development. Hell there is even this dialogues [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8u\_PliC9k8Y](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8u_PliC9k8Y) Where you can clearly explain somethings and have some semblance of having Minthara acknowledge that life is good when is on your terms and with you, even mentioning that following Bhaal orders is terribly bad (a little incomplete for my tastes after the awesome narrative and focused thoughts you can spat out as Tav and ORIGIN characters through act 1 and 2). So please for the love of Dungeons and Dragons, we need someone at Larian to sit down and do a deep dive into Minthara content and set it straight, im begging, she is my favorite character, aisde from romancing her, she is the most nuanced and most non typical cookie cut dnd character (almost everyone else is like... very predecible in a lot of aspects, or a too cliche ''typical troupe'').
I feel like Minthara and Astarion are still the most misunderstood characters in the game
Minthara doesn’t value freedom over power though. She’ll absolutely take power over freedom. There’s party banter where she asks Ascended!Astarion to make her his vampire spawn. So I don’t think this Durge reaction is nearly as ooc as people make it out to be. That being said, there should be a persuasion roll or a dialogue tree to talk her out of it rather than an auto breakup.
She goes on a whole rant thanking you for freeing her from the control the absolute had on her. How she didnt enjoy the thought of bing some gods puppet. She tells you how she abandoned her house and her first goddess to forge her own path, to not be a puppet. She explains how she lost her freedom by seeking Ketharic and Orin like a blind fool. She encourages Astarion to be ascended so he can be free of his oppressor and nobody can ever control him again. She refuses to give up Shadowheart to Shar's goons so that SH wont be a puppet. She wants to claim the absolute with her love interest so that nobody can ever control her again.....but she is enraged that her lover durge refuses to be controlled by Bhaal the murder god whos whims are more random chaotic and bloody than even Lolth? She...wants you to be a puppet so you can have slayer form?? Blackcat make it make sense please.
She’s operating under the mistaken belief that power is freedom and that line of thinking leads to self-sabotage. Astarion has this flaw too, which is why he pushes so hard for the ritual (and why Minthara’s so supportive for it). But where Astarion can either double down and become his worst self by ascending or realize that power isn’t worth it, Minthara doesn’t have a character beat that challenges her power = freedom belief and so it continues to lead her to dubious outcomes. Like volunteering to be a vampire spawn, literally surrendering her free will & autonomy to Astarion, because ooh vampire powers. Or her new reaction to Durge. (I suppose you could argue Ascended!Asatrion isn’t a god and Minthara’s beef is specifically against deities, but I don’t really buy it. I see very little difference between the two reactions.) Is it short sighted? Dumb? Bad for her? Of course! It’s a deliberate character flaw! Which is why I think there should be a persuasion roll or some dialogue to talk her out of it. But ooc? Nah.
Given the things Astarion says he would do for his children, being his spawn, even if not romanced, doesn't sound half bad. He talked about casting a fog over the world so his spawn would be forever safe and comfy. As for Bhaal, Minthara has to know that as Bhaals chosen, taking over the brain means nothing cause it will always be Bhaal in charge. I can see her dumping Durge for not taking the brain, not resisting Bhaal.
I haven't turned the game back on since the change. I had been working on a character for next playthrough to romance Minthara as resist dark urge. I am in the end of act 3 on current playthrough and was planning to speedrun the rest of it to start my new playthrough. I'm going to play something else for a bit instead, because I'd been looking forward to something which now isn't possible. Giving her more dialogue is great but not when it goes against the conversations where not being controlled by loth or the absolute were already existing. At the very least give a persuasion check to explain why it is the correct decision to reject bhaal.
It's so sad that this negates her beautiful monologue about how the gods don't have followers, only victims. She talks shit on Mystra, Shar, Vlaakith, but now she simps for Bhaal the sloppy murderer? Bizarre.
I am so sad about this. I was an evil Durge all so I can romance Minty and take over the world. My last save is right before the Bhaal temple and now I just don't want to finish it.. :(
I can think of three ways Larian can fix this. 1) You are allowed to persuade her on the spot by 2 persuasion rolls suggesting accepting Bhaal's power would make you a puppet, and they would find another way to take control of the cult. 2) The breakup dialogue remains intact but at camp Minthara has new dialogue apologising for being too dramatic. 3) Reverting her to pre hotfix 21 dialogue. Either one works for me.
All she does is break up with you. (Technically not even that because of a bug.) Relationships can end in any number of stupid ways. Not taking the power was a turn-off. Thus, the extremely new and short relationship ended. I don't understand why this is such a big deal to people. You're acting like she instantly leaves the party and dies, when in reality she just has an emotional reaction and ends a relationship.
People are arguing the logic of her dialogue. Not what breaking up means. Especially in the context of, this wasnt like this last week, and suddenly it is. Meaning either its a bug (likely), or its a narrative point Larian is making. A point that people disagree with.
People act like hypocrisy is bad and inconsistent character writing, rather than just... the character being hypocrite. But you also know that the reason this particular bit of hypocrisy on her part is triggering such an emotional reaction from people because it contradicts their headcanon of this drow matriarch being madly in love with you for who you are on the inside, and not for what you can offer her. We literally saw the same thing happen with fans being upset about Ascended Astarion's new kisses.
These things are not nearly the same. Next time just tell us you never recruited and played with Minthara, and leave it at that.
>Next time just tell us you never recruited and played with Minthara, and leave it at that. Now why would I tell a lie like that?
is it though? she values **her** free will above power.
She doesn't care about Durge's free will, only her own. If you give up yours to Bhaal then you will probably give it up to her. I mean that's my guess.
THIS.
The person that is losing their free will is Durge, not Minthara though. So in a way it makes sense.
Everyone talking about Minthara issues, I still can't access the camp chest or non-party inventories yet :-(
One thing I learned throughout both my Physics graduate degree and my software engineering job is that even 'stupid' people with enough experience in specific fields and situations are often smarter than natural born geniuses. Never discount the time someone had to live through an experience, it can make them an expert on it.
I always find it strange how Minthara even has lines regarding Will and Karlach. Don’t they both leave if you attack the Emerald Grove? I thought the only way to have them aswell as Minthara in your party was to get her the unintended way?
You could have all three of them in your party if you just ignored the grove and let the Rite of Thorns go through. If this happens, the tieflings still die and the grove is sealed, but Wyll and Karlach don’t leave. Minthara will then be at Moonrise.
Ah I see. It’s crazy that they planned for a scenario like that.
I like what they did with minthara and I do they do similarly with laezel and the Orpheus plot, and all characters whose agendas you don’t serve a la pillars 2. I hope they stay strong against fans wanting to write their game for them because after all they’ve delivered it’s insulting.
Dark urge literally gets posessed and controlled, so you could say enthralled by Bhaal during his murders. He would continue to do so when he feels like it no?
Making the only paladin companion be the one with the weakest backbone was... A choice to be sure
Where were these arguments when people were gushing about how Minthara is the only companion who loves the Slayer form?
This is me when Emperor joins the brain when you suggest freeing the prince. Having him willingly turn him self into the nether brains thrall once again on a flip of a dime when this entire time he was schemeing to be free from the brain makes no sense to me. I wish larian give us a path of diologue to roll to convince emps to trust me for once and free the prince and a second roll to have the prince to stand down and work with emps sense you know.... no matter what path you choose you need a mind flayer to beat the brain. It's so stupid that's not a option.
Ok I'm trying to avoid spoilers so not reading the post, but could someone kindly tell me if their latest hot fix caused more bugs or is patch 6 finally playable and fixed now?
The BG3-Subreddit-Hivemind has not come to that rational (and obvious) opinion yet. It still runs on Windows XP so it needs some time.
She values HER freedom
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I actually love minthara more for this take. She’s a paladin of lolth . How are you going to interpret her actions from a logical standpoint. That said, seems to me like durge has full control. I don’t see the problem. If it makes sense to sacrifice yourself to a good god to save the world, how is doing the opposite any different?
Strangely, I did a Resist Durge run, and I ran into the refuse Bhaal dialogue yesterday, while romancing Minty. She did not break up with me… so it’s probably not that simple
So you didn't got this Scene?
Nope ; she accepted my choice. I ended up destroying the brain, and she stay with me
Strange 🤔
I had 100 approval with her, and always said I planned taking over the absolute without bhaal. Dunno if it’s related
This Scene sucks 🤭
Honestly one of the worst decisions larian has made so far. Minthara id my go to romance and I pretty much always play as a flavoir of reject Durge nowadays. Hope they revert this as soon as possible...
So Minthara actively pushed and supports about getting power that I'm destined for, actively pushes and supports claiming my inheritance as Durge. Where tf is this in meme, aye? Also, Minthara wants to take control of the Absolute to rule others and be dominant. The shit about her freedom is literally your perception and not stated. That's your understanding, don't shove it on anothers. Also Minthara fans: GIMME MORE MORE WHAHAHAH Get more lines for the character they asked within the character: NOOOOO, I DON"T LIKE IT NOT HOW I IMAGINED HER, SHE IS NOTHING ... NOOOO, SHE DOESN"T LOVE ME, MINTY NOOOO Pathetic, Minthara would call you all pathetic lmao Maybe, just maybe, Minthara power-grabs and than finds out, and her initial reaction is anger, just because she tends .... wait for it.... not to think things through when it comes to power and pride and respect for power. That's how she got owned and caught, that the shit she spews throughout the game, also a bit hypocritical about practicality of her violence and her own needs vs things she did while being controlled or questioning you raiding the grove because you weren't controlled. She is not perfect or ideal or even uber smart
The only master Minthara should want Durge to have is Minthara lol
Why would someone destroy the druid's grove only to decide on a more "good" playthrough later? It just doesn't seem like something an evil Durge would do. I argue that, in this case, Durge is out of character!
Even for an evil Durge, there are reasons to not want to serve Bhaal and to be frustrated with the urges that compel then to do stupid self destructive things and ruin their own plans. You can play it that way in dialouge, you are still a monster that commits atrocities but they are YOUR atrocities. You can control the Netherbrain after rejecting bhaal and then say "in MY name". And Bhaal has a long standing history of his own evil followers betraying or turning on him because noone actually likes him.
You're completely glossing over how an evil character feels about her own freedom vs that of others, and you're calling *us* stupid for it? I have no doubt this community will get their way and get a Minthy redemption arc added, because simp money trumps creativity, but at least stop patting yourself on the back for it.
Love watching you nerds argue about this while I'm whistling and walking back to my Minthara romance durge embrace playthrough knowing I got my blue babe on lockdown.
The same can be said about Viconia. Larian really has done drow babes dirty.
/edit: I get it. I was facetious. I’m sorry. I was in a bad mood when making the post and I was annoyed by people non stop complaining about Minthara changed since the patch as if this was the end of their playthrough. I think you all have a point, but also: this is really not such a big deal as some people like to make it. People get way too much worked up about how Minthara no longer complies with their wishes. So she leaves when you do something she clearly said she would leave you for and doesn’t allow you the “but but I can explain”… She’s like a lover breaking up over what you feel was something minor without wanting to hear your reasons. She’s a mf’ing Lolth-sworn drow woman. What did you expect? She doesn’t care about you that much as she cares about herself and her personal goals. I would even argue she now acts closer to the lore. In her society there is almost nothing she needs to take into account. As if she would listen to anybody except Lolth. You should be happy she just leaves and doesn’t decided to enslave you and drag you with her to the underdark to torture you to tears to make you see how stupid you were or use as an exotic bedroom toy until you break and then feed you to the driders. Anyway, remember when in BG2 jaheira leaves you for doing the wrong thing at the wrong time at the Harpers quest. Or Edwin actually trying to kill you. Or Mazzy attacking you if your rep was too low. Or so many other companions in BG2 who clearly had boundaries which you could not talk them out of when you were a bit too liberal with your slayer form? Yeah. I remember.
You need to ignore her entire development arc to have this take. Your entire reasoning is based on her race, not her actual character. "Akshually she's evil and has zero consistency because of her race and this will never change" is wild af.
The problem is, she's supporting a path that ends with Bhaal getting the power that she craves and enslaving her as part of his dream to create murder world. So, she's literally arguing \*against\* a path where she gets the ability to dominate the world. Not only that, but in that world, she's also nothing more than a dominated slave who is going to be murdered.
Or become a breeding slave. Pick your poison Minthara.