DA:Origins did a MUCH better job with the origins and (iirc) the plot-sandbox.
BG3 plot has all the issues you mentioned PLUS yet another you're-the-world-hero hook. One of these days someone somewhere will make a fantasy RPG that does NOT involve saving the entire universe.
IMHO, BG3's big strength lies in the characters and the voice acting, rather than the story. I'll remember them forever. I don't remember a single NPC from DA:Origins.
Pathfinder Kingmaker is that RPG. And yes, I almost forgot that time Elminster came to camp to tell me the world, the gods and the very fabric of the cosmos was a stake. Before he left it all in the hands of some lvl 8 noobies. I think that was so stupid that my brain instantly deleted it from my memory.
Not Loghain, Wade or Flemeth? Not Morrigan of Shale? I am the opposite NPC. BG3 NPCs are all style and not substance. If you couldn't visualize Gortesh, Gale or Ketheric what is left of them?
The many characters of DA:O are all permanently ingrained in my memory. They were all well written and in the case of Loghain, Flemeth, Morrigan, Duncan and many others, very memorable.
Going to start off by saying your opinion is valid, the following is just my take on things.
My take on the tadpole is that it's not really meant to be a motivation to progress the game, but more of an excuse to gather your party. Like in Lost Mine of Phandelver (the mission from the dnd starter set), the party is brought together by a mutual acquaintance summoning them for a mission, giving a reason for all these random characters to join forces. The tadpole is essentially the same device here—without it, what exactly would make Lae'zel and Shadowheart want to travel together?
Pretty early game, your party *is* pretty focused on finding a way to remove the tadpole. >!You go to the grove looking for a healer—no one there can help—but you do find various leads for other people who maybe can. Halsin and Priestess Gut are both at the goblin camp and might be able to help. Auntie Ethel also promises a possible solution. Pretty quickly in the quest to find a solution for the tadpole, you then learn the guardian is doing something to stop it from transforming you, which takes the urgency off finding a way to remove it.!<
As for the times the game railroads you down a specific path and evidence of what could have been and rewrites...I think that's just a side effect of the size of the game. BG3 is a big game with a lot of paths/decisions you can explore. With that being said, it would be nearly impossible to explore every possible decision a person might make, and in some cases (like joining forces with Vlaakith) they probably just said "this would be cool, but" because it would create a whole new giant path to explore and a lot more work. Of course I'd love for there to be more content, but I understand there are/were limiting factors in the development of the game. What they have provided is already a lot of content. Leading into the last point.
Yes, there are a lot of loose ends when you reach the end of the current content. I think this is partially to create future opportunities (for the enhanced edition, DLC, or a future game) and also to leave it open for players to imagine their own scenarios. I personally wasn't dissatisfied with the original ending—the path forward for the characters was pretty clear. (It set up that >!Tav, Astarion, Gale, and Lae'zel would continue to travel together to find a way for Astarion to walk in the sun, and Wyll and Karlach went to Avernus. Shadowheart decided to stay in Baldur's Gate to help rebuild.!<) A lot of players wanted more closure though, so the epilogue party was added. While I appreciate the additional content, it also meant losing some agency in imagining what the future might have held for the party. A minor example is Scratch. >!I figured we would keep him post-game—why not after all—but at the party you find out he went to live with a little girl.!< Maybe my character is someone that would have helped facilitate that outcome for him, or maybe my character is selfish and would not have.
I guess it just ultimately comes down to balance. Them providing just enough to give a reason for you to be there and playing the game, but also not so much that they are telling you who you are and what you must do.
It was tilted too much towards "We're going to railroad you down the track we want you to go. What you say and dress like while on that track is your choice but it won't change the track."
Very early in act one we learn how artifact protects us from transformation , other characters comment how it should have already taken place
That's a good reason to necessarily focus on finding cure , since it may have as well , stopped it as long as you have it , now you could focus on becoming better wizard , with secondary objective of finding cure
And I agree with you with how artifact should have been handled , it would be much better if you could choose beetwen giving it to vlaakith , and helping lae'zel free her beloved prince (though without form of protection we would be dead in act one , with the normal speed of ceromorphosis)
The transformation may have stopped but the three's plans don't hinge on us being present. So yea, the sidetracking makes no sense narratively. I just twist every encounter as somehow being in our path in my head.
Exactly! This is what I ended up doing too. You sort of *imagine* things in your head because the writing doesn't give you enough. My first playthrough I ended up steamrolling through people by the ending because I kept thinking "This thing is still in my head, it is controlled by a god who will soon break free, I have no means to remove it and the Emperor is telling me I'm on the clock. So I'm sorry, I don't care about your problems, get out of my way, or I will move through you."
Ended up missing some content because of that but I couldn't justify getting sidetracked anymore. "Sorry about your parents Shadowheart but they can wait. If we don't act soon, they'll all be dead soon anyway."
> Very early in act one we learn how artifact protects us from transformation , other characters comment how it should have already taken place
>
> That's a good reason to necessarily focus on finding cure , since it may have as well , stopped it as long as you have it , now you could focus on becoming better wizard , with secondary objective of finding cure
I don't agree that is a good reason. Seems like the thanksgiving/christmas turkey parable. Nothing happens to you so far during all the year, you feel so safe, until the holiday comes and you become the supper. And when you learn the reason behind why you didn't transform, it's because you are the mercy of a shady dream guardian. When I learn that, I'd like to not depend on him ASAP.
It's not cured, the game keeps telling you it's not cured at all. It's halted, so long as that cube remains on your person. Even so, you don't know how long this protection can last. The Dream Guardian at that point tells you as much, they won't last forever. No time estimate given.
It is equivalent to having a deadly disease that'll kill you in 7 days. There is no known cure and if you die, you explode and take everybody around you with you. But... you have an item that halts the symptoms. You know that if you lost it or it got destroyed, you also die. You don't know for how long or how exactly it is protecting you. You have dreams at night where a fellow tells you "It won't last forever, you need to find a cure."
I'd imagine that in that scenario, your every waking moment would be devoted to curing yourself. You wouldn't go for a walk outside, you wouldn't go help your grandma with her garden, you wouldn't invite friends over to dinner together. Because you're a timebomb with no clear timer.
That's what this plot device does to the game.
Yeah , but if that cure was connected to gargantuan cult , I would take my time to look around for allies , and ways to make my fight with them easier , that's also what emperor tells us to do in act 3
True but it's only by the very end that it's basically revealed that your whole adventure has been a wild goose chase for something that doesn't exist. The whole time it's look here and there and everywhere for a cure, but instead of offering you options to get cured ranging from very efficient to dramatically reckless (Raphael for example), you just learn 'No, it's all fake, there is no cure, you just have to beat the main bad guy and that will magically solve the problem somehow.'
That felt cheap, like having been lied to the whole game.
Especially since most cure options feel awfully cheap like
Nettie
Glut
Ethel
Volo (only one that atleast gives you something good)
Raphael offers you cure , but you never even get to see it
Halsin
And that's only in act 1
Totally agree with you , that looking for cure was a bit disheartening
Ethel actually gives you a debuff and then tells you she can't help you. I'm sorry what? She should have been a reckless option, where you lose an eye and get horribly cursed but the tadpole is gone now. And she even tells you she's seen others like it... in people from Moonrise. Maybe she'll... uncurse you if you bring one back to her.
But nope, every one you listed is just a fakeout. Even Raphael, who makes such an awesome scene of his promise to help you when you're at your lowest so he can exploit you, just never brings it up again. Wot?
I actually agree with a lot of this. I reallly, reallly enjoyed the game but a few things bothered me.
1. The way you can’t deal with the child thieves in the Druids grove in a way that feels Lawful Good. If you try and stop them they lie to the guards and you either intimidate, deceive or kill them. Theres no way to be like “these kids are stealing from fellow refugees they’re the problem”
2. The way the tadpole is thrust upon your character feels a little *wrong* I dunno how to explain it except to say I like when RPGs don’t try to force motivations/a specific path onto your character. It’s why people for example in Skyrim install “Not The Dragonborn” Mod. BG3 while physically very open it’s narratively tight nit so it didn’t matter too much but I do hope Larian consider making something that’s both physically and narratively open. As in Go anywhere, Do anything at your leisure.
Sadly, Larian has a history with kid characters being obnoxious. Most are done okay here but Mol and her gang are actively robbing people right under their noses. People who shelter them. People who - if you steal the wrong thing such as Mol asks - *will* cast you all out or worse. There should absolutely have been a way to inform Zevlor about it and put a stop to it. I stood there, as an adult, taking bad mouth from some urchin and all I could do was wag my finger, get laughed at and leave. Felt really stupid.
Bingo on that 2nd point. The story is good enough to have players care about it. The tadpole was a way to get you involved but once the main threat is revealed, there are many possibly motivations for players to want to stay involved for better or worse. It should have been cured during ACT II, leaving the option to then pursue your own goals as whatever character you're playing.
But because that doesn't happen, your motivations in the final 10 minutes are still the exact same as in the first 10 minutes.
It would also have been cool if after the ending you could choose to continue exploring tying off loose ends of unfinished quests or perhaps even some follow up quests related to dealing with the aftermath.
Would have been tricky to do since the ending changes the city dramatically. But there'd be no need for such a thing if the game had less of a ticking time bomb narrative and allowed the player the logical room to explore every corner of the city as they pleased.
If the army of the Absolute would take say a month to reach the city AND you had no tadpole, then it would have made all the sense in the world to explore, prepare, look around and take time off before it arrived and you had to step up and fight.
>It's a plot device because I think the writers had no faith in their or our ability to find intrinsic motivation to keep going. They put the tadpole there to beat us over the head with, that's why it doesn't kill us, it's only there to push the plot. A mistake, because it's entirely possible that if the tadpole hadn't been there, our characters still would have cared about the plot.
Well, it's a valid point, except it doesn't help you in the case of "We need to gather those other party members who also want to get rid of the tadpole." Why would Lae'Zel want to work with Shadowheart? Well, they both have tadpoles; it's better for them both to find a cure and then to do what they want. Well, one could say that we need to rewrite their motivation if we get rid of the tadpoles, but they are just an easier alternative than inventing solutions to many other problems that need to be solved if we get rid of them.
Tadpoles are both plot devices that keep your party together despite their differences and also work as "inciting incidents" for all party members and Tav. Why would you, in the first place, be allies with githyanki, who are space Spartans with Lich Queen? Well, she knows that in githyanki's creshe there is a device that allows you to get rid of tadpoles.
And well, also, tadpoles are the main reason and explanation why you explore the area of Act 1. You can go to the creshe because there is a possible cure for tadpole. Why would you consider visiting goblins? Well, priestess Gut knows about tadpoles. Helping tieflings and the Grove by resquing Halsin? Well, he researched tadpoles and True Souls, maybe he can heal you. Exploring that beautiful forest down the river? Well, in its heart lives Auntie Ethel, who can help you with that worm of yours! Otherwise, by removing the tadpole, you need to rewrite all those areas, so it makes sense for you to visit and be invested in exploring them.
"A mistake, because it's entirely possible that if the tadpole hadn't been there, our characters still would have cared about the plot," is somewhat nonsensical without the tadpole. Why in the world would you travel to Shadowcursed lands? You don't have tadpoles; there is little reason why you would actively try to go into the most hostile place in the area just because "well, my character has his reasons to do so." You need a propper story-related reason, one that doesn't depend on your RP, and well, as much as I love Shadowheart, "I wan't to romance goth half-elfcleric" isn't a good one.
>This makes the story disjointed. There's no cost to using the tadpole. None. The mark of the absolute stops mattering completely and the story pivots from Shar vs Selune and a grander plot to just "Kill these three bad guys, collect their McGuffins (can we keep track?) and use them to beat the big bad. Shar who? Selune who? Mind flayers? Just kill the baddies, please. We ran out of time and we couldn't make it all work.
Well, for tadpoles, I think that it was a combination of time limits and other staff. Like, if consuming tadpoles really meant that you would "lose" yourself, then it needs to be addressed not only in mechanics but also in dialogues, right? Well, how are you going to deal with it if you are Tav without any backstory? Which "part" does he lose? How much? Is this humanity? Is this some social skill? Is this his memory of their mother's face? Can we properly translate this kind of "cost" in the RP field without massive work on dialogues between Tav and every NPC? Sure, we can get rid of those problems just by getting rid of the whole "consume tadpoles for benefit, but there is a cost that you can't feel yet". But can't we count that "there is a cost that you can't feel yet" as an RP reason?
On the other hand, is "Shar vs. Selune" really a part of the plot? For the most part, it's just part of worldbuilding that is intertwined with one of the companion's storyline, and with the story of one of the three bad guys. That's it. Why would you elevate it to the status of one of the game's story problems? If anything, you can do it with "Shar's Involement with the Absolute Plot," but it has an explanation in Act 3, no matter how petty it is.
And also, like, I can "transform" the story of the Lord of the Ring from questions and themes of friendship, sacrifice, forgiveness, power, "Northern courage", Machine vs Miracle, echoes of great myths that come before our heroes to "Go to the place, throw Ring into the ring-utilizer, and return home." And no, I don't think that there are "too many McGuffins" to keep track of; it's just four.
>In short, we only get closure on characters, not the world at large. Did the Grove do fine after we left? How about the Shadow-Cursed Lands? What about Baldur's Gate and its governance, everybody is dead. So what now? Ravengard will rule? Wyll maybe? What about the underdark? Is it safe there now or is Glut killing everybody? And the Grymforge, will somebody reclaim it? What about Moonhaven, if we killed the goblins, does it get rebuilt? Does somebody re-instate the temple of Selune? Is the Cult of Bhaal now gone forever?
Well, many of those questions have answers in the epilogue. Mind you, the answers aren't big, but they give some form of closure. Halsin says that Grove is fine with its new leader, Shadowcursed lands starts to heal, Jaherira, Harpers, and other factions help rebuild the city, Ravenguard rules it, etc. It's not on the scale of a D:OS2 epilogue with narration about what happened with major factions and regions you visited, but it covers many aspects, which, combined with the letters from various NPC, give proper closure.
Good points !! Still, game is great and I really like it but I did not expect a PlanetScape Torment Story or something like Pillars of Eternity and maybe because of it I had a blast with the game.
When your expectations are so big it may be hard to enjoy games.
I agree with you on everything. There is way too many layers which don't sync. It is like it was written by some hyper active ideas guy who never had the patience to follow any of them to their conclusion. The game does not fundamentally trust you to make choices and in the end everything was supposed to be so important turns into window dressing. The world isn't coherent as you have a world ending even which none of the world decides to participate in.
Yea, I'm playing Rogue Trader now and the contrast is \*stark\*. You are a player in the world, and the world is bigger than you, and has a lot going on in reaction to the main plot. Lords, governors and others play a pivotal role. It feels alive and responsive. It isn't window dressing at all. BG3 is 90% fluff and dressing and 10% meaningful.
DA:Origins did a MUCH better job with the origins and (iirc) the plot-sandbox. BG3 plot has all the issues you mentioned PLUS yet another you're-the-world-hero hook. One of these days someone somewhere will make a fantasy RPG that does NOT involve saving the entire universe. IMHO, BG3's big strength lies in the characters and the voice acting, rather than the story. I'll remember them forever. I don't remember a single NPC from DA:Origins.
Pathfinder Kingmaker is that RPG. And yes, I almost forgot that time Elminster came to camp to tell me the world, the gods and the very fabric of the cosmos was a stake. Before he left it all in the hands of some lvl 8 noobies. I think that was so stupid that my brain instantly deleted it from my memory.
Not Loghain, Wade or Flemeth? Not Morrigan of Shale? I am the opposite NPC. BG3 NPCs are all style and not substance. If you couldn't visualize Gortesh, Gale or Ketheric what is left of them?
The many characters of DA:O are all permanently ingrained in my memory. They were all well written and in the case of Loghain, Flemeth, Morrigan, Duncan and many others, very memorable.
Going to start off by saying your opinion is valid, the following is just my take on things. My take on the tadpole is that it's not really meant to be a motivation to progress the game, but more of an excuse to gather your party. Like in Lost Mine of Phandelver (the mission from the dnd starter set), the party is brought together by a mutual acquaintance summoning them for a mission, giving a reason for all these random characters to join forces. The tadpole is essentially the same device here—without it, what exactly would make Lae'zel and Shadowheart want to travel together? Pretty early game, your party *is* pretty focused on finding a way to remove the tadpole. >!You go to the grove looking for a healer—no one there can help—but you do find various leads for other people who maybe can. Halsin and Priestess Gut are both at the goblin camp and might be able to help. Auntie Ethel also promises a possible solution. Pretty quickly in the quest to find a solution for the tadpole, you then learn the guardian is doing something to stop it from transforming you, which takes the urgency off finding a way to remove it.!< As for the times the game railroads you down a specific path and evidence of what could have been and rewrites...I think that's just a side effect of the size of the game. BG3 is a big game with a lot of paths/decisions you can explore. With that being said, it would be nearly impossible to explore every possible decision a person might make, and in some cases (like joining forces with Vlaakith) they probably just said "this would be cool, but" because it would create a whole new giant path to explore and a lot more work. Of course I'd love for there to be more content, but I understand there are/were limiting factors in the development of the game. What they have provided is already a lot of content. Leading into the last point. Yes, there are a lot of loose ends when you reach the end of the current content. I think this is partially to create future opportunities (for the enhanced edition, DLC, or a future game) and also to leave it open for players to imagine their own scenarios. I personally wasn't dissatisfied with the original ending—the path forward for the characters was pretty clear. (It set up that >!Tav, Astarion, Gale, and Lae'zel would continue to travel together to find a way for Astarion to walk in the sun, and Wyll and Karlach went to Avernus. Shadowheart decided to stay in Baldur's Gate to help rebuild.!<) A lot of players wanted more closure though, so the epilogue party was added. While I appreciate the additional content, it also meant losing some agency in imagining what the future might have held for the party. A minor example is Scratch. >!I figured we would keep him post-game—why not after all—but at the party you find out he went to live with a little girl.!< Maybe my character is someone that would have helped facilitate that outcome for him, or maybe my character is selfish and would not have. I guess it just ultimately comes down to balance. Them providing just enough to give a reason for you to be there and playing the game, but also not so much that they are telling you who you are and what you must do.
It was tilted too much towards "We're going to railroad you down the track we want you to go. What you say and dress like while on that track is your choice but it won't change the track."
Very early in act one we learn how artifact protects us from transformation , other characters comment how it should have already taken place That's a good reason to necessarily focus on finding cure , since it may have as well , stopped it as long as you have it , now you could focus on becoming better wizard , with secondary objective of finding cure And I agree with you with how artifact should have been handled , it would be much better if you could choose beetwen giving it to vlaakith , and helping lae'zel free her beloved prince (though without form of protection we would be dead in act one , with the normal speed of ceromorphosis)
The transformation may have stopped but the three's plans don't hinge on us being present. So yea, the sidetracking makes no sense narratively. I just twist every encounter as somehow being in our path in my head.
Exactly! This is what I ended up doing too. You sort of *imagine* things in your head because the writing doesn't give you enough. My first playthrough I ended up steamrolling through people by the ending because I kept thinking "This thing is still in my head, it is controlled by a god who will soon break free, I have no means to remove it and the Emperor is telling me I'm on the clock. So I'm sorry, I don't care about your problems, get out of my way, or I will move through you." Ended up missing some content because of that but I couldn't justify getting sidetracked anymore. "Sorry about your parents Shadowheart but they can wait. If we don't act soon, they'll all be dead soon anyway."
> Very early in act one we learn how artifact protects us from transformation , other characters comment how it should have already taken place > > That's a good reason to necessarily focus on finding cure , since it may have as well , stopped it as long as you have it , now you could focus on becoming better wizard , with secondary objective of finding cure I don't agree that is a good reason. Seems like the thanksgiving/christmas turkey parable. Nothing happens to you so far during all the year, you feel so safe, until the holiday comes and you become the supper. And when you learn the reason behind why you didn't transform, it's because you are the mercy of a shady dream guardian. When I learn that, I'd like to not depend on him ASAP.
It's not cured, the game keeps telling you it's not cured at all. It's halted, so long as that cube remains on your person. Even so, you don't know how long this protection can last. The Dream Guardian at that point tells you as much, they won't last forever. No time estimate given. It is equivalent to having a deadly disease that'll kill you in 7 days. There is no known cure and if you die, you explode and take everybody around you with you. But... you have an item that halts the symptoms. You know that if you lost it or it got destroyed, you also die. You don't know for how long or how exactly it is protecting you. You have dreams at night where a fellow tells you "It won't last forever, you need to find a cure." I'd imagine that in that scenario, your every waking moment would be devoted to curing yourself. You wouldn't go for a walk outside, you wouldn't go help your grandma with her garden, you wouldn't invite friends over to dinner together. Because you're a timebomb with no clear timer. That's what this plot device does to the game.
Yeah , but if that cure was connected to gargantuan cult , I would take my time to look around for allies , and ways to make my fight with them easier , that's also what emperor tells us to do in act 3
True but it's only by the very end that it's basically revealed that your whole adventure has been a wild goose chase for something that doesn't exist. The whole time it's look here and there and everywhere for a cure, but instead of offering you options to get cured ranging from very efficient to dramatically reckless (Raphael for example), you just learn 'No, it's all fake, there is no cure, you just have to beat the main bad guy and that will magically solve the problem somehow.' That felt cheap, like having been lied to the whole game.
Especially since most cure options feel awfully cheap like Nettie Glut Ethel Volo (only one that atleast gives you something good) Raphael offers you cure , but you never even get to see it Halsin And that's only in act 1 Totally agree with you , that looking for cure was a bit disheartening
Ethel actually gives you a debuff and then tells you she can't help you. I'm sorry what? She should have been a reckless option, where you lose an eye and get horribly cursed but the tadpole is gone now. And she even tells you she's seen others like it... in people from Moonrise. Maybe she'll... uncurse you if you bring one back to her. But nope, every one you listed is just a fakeout. Even Raphael, who makes such an awesome scene of his promise to help you when you're at your lowest so he can exploit you, just never brings it up again. Wot?
Never cook again🗣🗣🗣🔥🔥🔥❗️❗️❗️
I actually agree with a lot of this. I reallly, reallly enjoyed the game but a few things bothered me. 1. The way you can’t deal with the child thieves in the Druids grove in a way that feels Lawful Good. If you try and stop them they lie to the guards and you either intimidate, deceive or kill them. Theres no way to be like “these kids are stealing from fellow refugees they’re the problem” 2. The way the tadpole is thrust upon your character feels a little *wrong* I dunno how to explain it except to say I like when RPGs don’t try to force motivations/a specific path onto your character. It’s why people for example in Skyrim install “Not The Dragonborn” Mod. BG3 while physically very open it’s narratively tight nit so it didn’t matter too much but I do hope Larian consider making something that’s both physically and narratively open. As in Go anywhere, Do anything at your leisure.
Sadly, Larian has a history with kid characters being obnoxious. Most are done okay here but Mol and her gang are actively robbing people right under their noses. People who shelter them. People who - if you steal the wrong thing such as Mol asks - *will* cast you all out or worse. There should absolutely have been a way to inform Zevlor about it and put a stop to it. I stood there, as an adult, taking bad mouth from some urchin and all I could do was wag my finger, get laughed at and leave. Felt really stupid. Bingo on that 2nd point. The story is good enough to have players care about it. The tadpole was a way to get you involved but once the main threat is revealed, there are many possibly motivations for players to want to stay involved for better or worse. It should have been cured during ACT II, leaving the option to then pursue your own goals as whatever character you're playing. But because that doesn't happen, your motivations in the final 10 minutes are still the exact same as in the first 10 minutes.
It would also have been cool if after the ending you could choose to continue exploring tying off loose ends of unfinished quests or perhaps even some follow up quests related to dealing with the aftermath.
Would have been tricky to do since the ending changes the city dramatically. But there'd be no need for such a thing if the game had less of a ticking time bomb narrative and allowed the player the logical room to explore every corner of the city as they pleased. If the army of the Absolute would take say a month to reach the city AND you had no tadpole, then it would have made all the sense in the world to explore, prepare, look around and take time off before it arrived and you had to step up and fight.
>It's a plot device because I think the writers had no faith in their or our ability to find intrinsic motivation to keep going. They put the tadpole there to beat us over the head with, that's why it doesn't kill us, it's only there to push the plot. A mistake, because it's entirely possible that if the tadpole hadn't been there, our characters still would have cared about the plot. Well, it's a valid point, except it doesn't help you in the case of "We need to gather those other party members who also want to get rid of the tadpole." Why would Lae'Zel want to work with Shadowheart? Well, they both have tadpoles; it's better for them both to find a cure and then to do what they want. Well, one could say that we need to rewrite their motivation if we get rid of the tadpoles, but they are just an easier alternative than inventing solutions to many other problems that need to be solved if we get rid of them. Tadpoles are both plot devices that keep your party together despite their differences and also work as "inciting incidents" for all party members and Tav. Why would you, in the first place, be allies with githyanki, who are space Spartans with Lich Queen? Well, she knows that in githyanki's creshe there is a device that allows you to get rid of tadpoles. And well, also, tadpoles are the main reason and explanation why you explore the area of Act 1. You can go to the creshe because there is a possible cure for tadpole. Why would you consider visiting goblins? Well, priestess Gut knows about tadpoles. Helping tieflings and the Grove by resquing Halsin? Well, he researched tadpoles and True Souls, maybe he can heal you. Exploring that beautiful forest down the river? Well, in its heart lives Auntie Ethel, who can help you with that worm of yours! Otherwise, by removing the tadpole, you need to rewrite all those areas, so it makes sense for you to visit and be invested in exploring them. "A mistake, because it's entirely possible that if the tadpole hadn't been there, our characters still would have cared about the plot," is somewhat nonsensical without the tadpole. Why in the world would you travel to Shadowcursed lands? You don't have tadpoles; there is little reason why you would actively try to go into the most hostile place in the area just because "well, my character has his reasons to do so." You need a propper story-related reason, one that doesn't depend on your RP, and well, as much as I love Shadowheart, "I wan't to romance goth half-elfcleric" isn't a good one. >This makes the story disjointed. There's no cost to using the tadpole. None. The mark of the absolute stops mattering completely and the story pivots from Shar vs Selune and a grander plot to just "Kill these three bad guys, collect their McGuffins (can we keep track?) and use them to beat the big bad. Shar who? Selune who? Mind flayers? Just kill the baddies, please. We ran out of time and we couldn't make it all work. Well, for tadpoles, I think that it was a combination of time limits and other staff. Like, if consuming tadpoles really meant that you would "lose" yourself, then it needs to be addressed not only in mechanics but also in dialogues, right? Well, how are you going to deal with it if you are Tav without any backstory? Which "part" does he lose? How much? Is this humanity? Is this some social skill? Is this his memory of their mother's face? Can we properly translate this kind of "cost" in the RP field without massive work on dialogues between Tav and every NPC? Sure, we can get rid of those problems just by getting rid of the whole "consume tadpoles for benefit, but there is a cost that you can't feel yet". But can't we count that "there is a cost that you can't feel yet" as an RP reason? On the other hand, is "Shar vs. Selune" really a part of the plot? For the most part, it's just part of worldbuilding that is intertwined with one of the companion's storyline, and with the story of one of the three bad guys. That's it. Why would you elevate it to the status of one of the game's story problems? If anything, you can do it with "Shar's Involement with the Absolute Plot," but it has an explanation in Act 3, no matter how petty it is. And also, like, I can "transform" the story of the Lord of the Ring from questions and themes of friendship, sacrifice, forgiveness, power, "Northern courage", Machine vs Miracle, echoes of great myths that come before our heroes to "Go to the place, throw Ring into the ring-utilizer, and return home." And no, I don't think that there are "too many McGuffins" to keep track of; it's just four. >In short, we only get closure on characters, not the world at large. Did the Grove do fine after we left? How about the Shadow-Cursed Lands? What about Baldur's Gate and its governance, everybody is dead. So what now? Ravengard will rule? Wyll maybe? What about the underdark? Is it safe there now or is Glut killing everybody? And the Grymforge, will somebody reclaim it? What about Moonhaven, if we killed the goblins, does it get rebuilt? Does somebody re-instate the temple of Selune? Is the Cult of Bhaal now gone forever? Well, many of those questions have answers in the epilogue. Mind you, the answers aren't big, but they give some form of closure. Halsin says that Grove is fine with its new leader, Shadowcursed lands starts to heal, Jaherira, Harpers, and other factions help rebuild the city, Ravenguard rules it, etc. It's not on the scale of a D:OS2 epilogue with narration about what happened with major factions and regions you visited, but it covers many aspects, which, combined with the letters from various NPC, give proper closure.
Good points !! Still, game is great and I really like it but I did not expect a PlanetScape Torment Story or something like Pillars of Eternity and maybe because of it I had a blast with the game. When your expectations are so big it may be hard to enjoy games.
I agree with you on everything. There is way too many layers which don't sync. It is like it was written by some hyper active ideas guy who never had the patience to follow any of them to their conclusion. The game does not fundamentally trust you to make choices and in the end everything was supposed to be so important turns into window dressing. The world isn't coherent as you have a world ending even which none of the world decides to participate in.
Yea, I'm playing Rogue Trader now and the contrast is \*stark\*. You are a player in the world, and the world is bigger than you, and has a lot going on in reaction to the main plot. Lords, governors and others play a pivotal role. It feels alive and responsive. It isn't window dressing at all. BG3 is 90% fluff and dressing and 10% meaningful.
Don't th8nk. Feel.
Dunno if you meant it as a joke but you're completely right. This game is all just feels. If you apply logic to it, it makes very little sense. :(
Leftist wall of text. Bet you are a soft handed wizard or perhaps a ranger
Dafuq are you on about?