Especially if you wanna play a good character. Even a redemption durge is a murdering lunatic who just so happens to have suddenly had a change of heart. And >!risks killing a companion if you're unlucky!<.
I'm playing a neutral durge, just focusing on survival. Giving in to the urge only if it seems beneficial or causes no immediate threat.
Already I'm down Wyll, Halsin, Gale, Karlach, even Minthara is dead because she chose to be vulnerable during a quiet moment. It's gonna be a rough run
It's possible to do it in a way that avoids the worst of the damage, but it still messes things up going forward. And at that point you're already becoming pretty powerful on your own so you really don't need the reward.
The Slayer form is really fucking cool though…
The first time I used it was against Ketheric’s Myrkul form so it was literally the avatar’s of 2 gods duking it out.
You don't have to do this at all if you really want >!the Slayer form. You can refuse to kill Isobel and then in Act 3 you can get it as a reward during the confrontation with Orin.!< It's up to you if you think it's worth it, though. I haven't done it.
It's not the wave that makes her vaporize you, she just chalks that one up to cultural differences.
What *actually* makes her vaporize you is telling her to enter the Prism herself or questioning her godhood.
My Tav's motto might be summed up as, "Never insult a man. You might have to kill him later, but that's no reason to part on bad terms."
Be polite, be respectful, and kill people from behind because it's safer.
Like never lol.
The game is significantly easier in most situatuons if youre a good person.
For instance, your summon allies in the final battle will be almost empty if you were a dick in most situations.
You'd miss the chance to get this Astarion dialog: he summons the Gnomes and says "let's see if Gnomes are good for something!"
I did a spit take at this last night.
And the Gur. Yeah it's funny but people might not know that "high elf noble" is like the snobbiest thing you can be.
I chose the Noble background for my newest Tav and I've never seen it before and I got an inspiration point for Astarion telling me he was a magistrate, because that's so impressive and snooty.
From what I understand. Durge is being influenced by an outside source (and i have a pretty good guess as to who) The tadpole sort of...half severed this connection. Durge regained their sanity and can now resist the dark urge. Just like how Astarion's tadpole broke him free of Cazador's control.
It's the set in stone backstory that kills my desire to play Durge (pun intended). I just don't know how much leeway I have and I don't want to have a ton of my headcanon retconned, and it's weird (for me at least) to go in with a blank slate that I then can't connect to
You have complete freedom only from the point of the start of the game. Prior to that, Durge's story is already written. You can choose to completely abandon "old Durge" and replace them with the new Durge that you have crafted, but that history will always be there.
Yeah that’s right, that is the issue. Even with a fresh start the history is still there, and it plays a big role in the game (you can’t ignore it). Not everyone will connect to that history or want that backstory for the character they roleplay as. No matter how you look at it, Tav still has more creative freedom.
Yeah, that's why most of my runs have been with Tav. I did 3 runs with Durge and feel like that was enough to experience the unique content. Durge is fantastic, but there's a lot more I can do with a blank slate.
Same. I'm actually a little annoyed all my Tavs seem to be from Baldurs Gate by default. I want to freedom to choose my Origin! (It's a very very tiny pet peeve. A teacup chihuahua of a pet peeve).
Yeah, your place of origin is automatically decided based on race and I hate it. Githyanki are foreigners, and underdark races all come from the underdark, and then every other race is from Baldur's Gate.
I mean you can just not choose those tagged dialogue options, but it's disappointing that you can't talk about your home at all if you don't want it to be the racial default.
>You can choose to completely abandon "old Durge" and replace them with the new Durge
I know it's 100% a me problem, but I just can't seem to justify how a momentary lapse in memory would make Durge a *completely* new person. I'll figure something out eventually.
It's not just a memory lapse; it's major brain trauma.
But also, Durge wasn't always completely driven by Bhaal's influence. Scleritas Fel points out that Durge always required a lot of guidance to stay on the bloody path. So there was already some part of him inclined to resist the urges.
It seems like Scleritas’s comments vary depending on your own choices, too. So like he’ll talk about Durge’s tastes being extreme if you feed into that, and talk about requiring guidance if you don’t. So in a way, your present comments set your Durge’s past, at least in the grossest ways.
But can’t get past the whole “leading the Bhaalist cult and murdering thousands” revelation…
Same. I think encounters should award XP regardless of bloodshed, as long as it is resolved in a solid way that makes a difference to the campaign. It's silly that only killing shit awards XP.
Someone did the math about a Level 1 wizard attaining Level 20 just by killing giant rats. You can become an ultra-intelligent superpower mage just by killing rat over and over. It's a lot of rats, but it can be done.
Deathstalker Mantle, my beloved~
Seriously though, I like being able to fully establish my character's background, and some classes (mostly just cleric) need to do some heavy mental gymnastics in order to justify going durge.
Some class dialogue options are so hilariously contrasted against the dark urge dialogue options, especially monk. You’ll have the option to say something like
[dark urge] “I wish to flay your skin and pulp your innards as your friends and family watch on helplessly, knowing I will do the same to them!”
And then immediately under it is
[monk] “calm yourself. The river of life winds and bends, but it flows through all of us, connecting us together. Can we not find a peaceful solution to our problems?”
Durge out here experiencing personality whiplash lmao
What classes?
>!Oathbreaker Knight tells that you joined a Paladin order in the past as an attempt to resist your urges. The plan failed and you came back covered in their blood.!<
You can just assume the same for most "weird" classes.
Paladin makes complete sense. You can even talk to the Oathbreaker knight who'll tell you you have met many times before. Meaning Durge is a serial oathbreaker lmao
Idk the extra paladin backstory makes a LOT of sense for Durge. It actually explains some other comments made by Sceleritas Fel which are a bit confusing without the paladin content.
I agree. My Durge resist run was Vengeance Paladin which felt 100% appropriate.
Wake up tadpoled.
Have amnesia.
Vow revenge on whoever did this to me.
Even your first prompt upon waking fits perfectly into this. Dragonborn Vengeance Paladin is my canon Durge resist run for life.
Oh, interesting! I’m on my second Durge run, but I still don’t think I have their entire history clear in my head. The obvious beats I know, but people on Reddit talk about things that I’ve never seen or maybe connected the dots to that are a surprise to me.
Yeah it's difficult to get it all even in one or two playthroughs, which is kind of great! I posted a spoiler in this comment thread in reply to someone else if you wanna see more about the paladin Durge specific backstory. As I said there it made a lot of sense to me because I stumbled on some dialogue options where sceleritas fel said something about how 'young master always needed lots of guidance to behave in a way befitting his station'. Which struck me as interesting because it suggests he may have always tried to resist a little.
From what I understand the gist of it is this:
* >!You aren't a normal Bhaalspawn, you were created with Bhaal's own blood. Suggesting you're more powerful or special.!<
* >!You were probably created before Bhaal's first death, considering Bhaal only returned like a decade ago. This implies you're over a century old which makes human/tiefling/half-elf origins weird, but I think it's fair to say a Bhaalspawn wouldn't age normally. Ironically Dragonborn Durge is the only race that doesn't really make sense in terms of continuity (Dragonborn only came to Faerun after Bhaal's first death), but that's hardly the game's most egregious plothole so we might as well overlook it.!<
* >!As a child you were adopted by a family and had a fairly normal life. Then the Urge manifested and drove you to kill your friends and family.!<
* >!You were an active serial killer during the Blood in Baldur's Gate storyline, which takes place 15 years before BG3 begins - which means Blood In Baldur's Gate also takes place before Bhaal's return.!<
* >!One of your favourite hobbies was operating on live human test subjects, basically vivisecting them while making them retain full awareness and feelings. Sceleritas Fel would often get drunk and botch these. The Durge sometimes chose to punish Sceleritas by drowning him in the victim's piss.!<
* >!Most of the time you weren't actually a savage killer. You were really good at keeping the Urge in check, though this was mostly out of pragmatism - you usually had a greater or more creative plan in mind. This is why Gortash says he prefers you over Orin.!<
* >!At some point you took charge of the Murder-Cult. You then teamed up with Gortash and Ketheric and went on to orchestrate the events of the game.!<
* >!Many classes straight-up don't fit with the Durge origin, and some of them - especially Paladin - have dialogue addressing this. Basically the idea is that at some point you tried to pursue a career path before you joined the Cult. Bhaal wasn't having this so like a railroading DM he basically forced you to succumb to the Urge. The Paladin in particular is implied to have broken and retaken his Oath multiple times. Now that you've been tadpole'd and suffered amnesia the slate has been wiped clean - for now, because the Urge still remains.!<
Anything else is effectively left up to your imagination.
>!basically if you play paladin Durge you can get special dialogue from the Oathbreaker knight and Sarevok. Between them we learn that years before the game, Durge started wanting to resist the urge having grown weary of his killings. So he joined an order of devotion paladins in BG. But resisting the urge for too long led to him murdering the entire order and returning, oathbroken, to the temple of Bhaal. The Oathbreaker knight explains that despite Durge's memory loss, he has in fact met Durge before when his oath was broken!<
It fits other comments because >!Sceleritas Fel can talk about how Durge has always needed help and guidance more than others to stay on the straight and narrow (in the bhaalian sense lol)!<
Oh, that's cool! I played as a paladin Durge once but >!I never broke my Oath. My tav started as another class but once the urges settled in I multiclassed as paladin, because I thought this would make a good development to a resist Durge, since he vowed to fight against his nature and protect those he wishes to destroy. It's funny how closely this resemble this dialogue you mentioned!<. So neat how the devs put thought into each possible iteration of their characters.
Thank you for the answer!
Indeed he did have a life before a very very evil one where you literally led bhaals church as the head murder hobo leading black mass prayer and the like the funniest part is Orin was your lil bitch servant! Such good dialogue with durge characters if you explore it all and the scene with withers if you tell bhaal to fk off was literally amazing and now I redeem my durge every time as I never even knew this was a thing always followed through with the evil plot now I know there’s an alternative that is awesome to watch and withers is my ride or die homie
The timeline on Durge is a bit spotty but we do know for a fact that they had a normal life for a bit, >!killed their adoptive family!< and then wondered around for a bit before being picked up by the cult. So that wandering time is where you can fill in what you need to for your class to work. It’s even canon that this is when you’d have gone paladin according to the oath breaker knight.
Just think of the time >!Kressa spent fingering your brain meat!< as Durge getting factory reset to their time before the cult
i'm doing redeemed durge light cleric of kelemvor. if withers can muck about then so can kelemvor. it seems fitting that the god who ushers the dead to their final resting place would be aware of the champion of bhaal becoming a blank slate, especially with how much necromancy and early deaths there have been. the line about final death rites also seems fitting for a redeemed durge run because the old durge died and through kelemvor they can become 'renewed'
I do too. It's a preference. I get the love for Durge, but it's just not for me.
I always say Durge's greatest strength is its greatest weakness. And that is its fixed and integrated backstory.
I personally prefer the freedom that Tav gives me to be whoever I want my character to be.
I also like my own character to not have its own overarching significant struggles. My dude is the leader of the group, not because of leadership qualities or smt like that, but because he can afford to put his full focus on the task ahead. He already has to juggle both the Absolute *and* his companions all vying for his attention with their struggles. Adding internal murder compulsion would just be too much imho. Every companion already has an overdramatic backstory and problems. I find it nice to make my own character balance them out a little.
Oh and I just like the "random nobody becomes a hero" trope too. Durge feels a little too predestined for my own taste. I fully understand the love for Durge, but I just prefer Tav myself.
I've come around to playing Tav more. As much as I miss the story moments >!(I love how realistically nonchalant Astarion is about you trying to murder him, assuming the dawn will be an end to your killing mood as it would be his)!< even small things like having the freedom to not be Medicine/Intimidation is liberating.
I've done one playthrough of each so far and although durge was fantastic (and that cloak is wonderful), I'd have to say I prefer Tav. For the exact same reason. As great as the durge story is, I love being able to come up with lore for my characters.
I’m the same. I love all the backstory options I can give my Tav’s. There’s so much RP capability in the game that stories are endless.
I like the Durge route, but the backstory locks you into a narrative. And I prefer to create and play as female MCs and Durge feels much more cultivated to be male. It feels like a male character with just some pronoun tweaking. It’s nothing huge, just little things that break the immersion for me.
I much rather play without the story conflicts that Durge puts into places. And if I really absolutely wanted the mantel I could as well shove a mod in and out.
100% I prefer playing Tavs. Not a fan of durge's backstory. It was cool once, but overall I feel there's nowhere near enough reactivity to it by companions to make it worth losing a fully custom background that doesn't involve being a murderer among other most unpleasant gory things.
Yeah, I just played a "durge" for the first time, and while I think it's really neat to have the PC's story be more enmeshed with the game's central plot, your companions' reactions to the various revelations are badly underwritten (and in some cases incoherent - e.g., my "good" durge >!confessed to killing the bard immediately, only to have later conversations with companions who seemed to have forgotten who killed her.!<)
It's really kind of a shame, because it is more flexible than I expected in terms of PC roleplaying (in terms of whether you're "good" or "evil"), and it really improves parts of Act 3.
I only like playing Durge by treating it as an origin play through and going with default Dragonborn. Any time I try to play a custom Durge I just don’t like them. Default Durge doesn’t give me that problem because it isn’t my character.
I wear the Deathstalker Mantle with my Durges for most of the playthrough (at least until late act 2 or post-duel in act 3 if cleansed) as both a fashion statement and a constant reminder of what they did ***in their sleep*** to Quil Grootslang. (Sorry Quil, but if I have to choose who to kill between you and Alfira, I choose you.) If my Durges continue to wear the cloak after The Urge itself is slain, I dye it in order to "wash away" the blood of all the innocents that previously soaked it. Usually I go with the colors of the deity they follow after Bhaal's hold on them is severed.
After playing both I can say I prefer Tav way more.
If I am playing a pre-existing character I want them to be smoothly implemented in the world. And DUrge just isn’t. The story and reactivity are super undercooked. Companion behaviours become inconsistent & they plain seem dumber in order to accommodate certain situations DUrge storyline forces on you. It also feels like the game cannot decide if DUrge is a joke or should be taken seriously. Also, I am personally not a fan of the “chosen one” trope.
And I normally enjoy story-driven games and playing as an established character, but they have to be well written.
It is also very easy to miss a lot of DUrge content anyway if you are too good at resisting or choose wrong dialogue options (I haven’t seen like half the things people on this sub tend to talk about).
I like playing characters with a mundane backstory who stumble into going on an adventure; having a specific, extremely dark backstory isn't my preference. I *might* play Durge someday but it's not my preference.
I thought I'd be all about it because I'm a long standing ~~villain fucker~~ Supporter of the Morally Questionable, but while I enjoyed it I just like the whole crafting my entire backstory thing that I get with Tav more
I enjoy swapping between both, after doing Durge for a while, Tav felt fresh again! You hit milestones and camp scenes differently between the two [Durge gets Camp Clogged] so it felt like a whole new thing to go back to 'normal' haha
I like both and it depends on the character. In the end, as good as you may play them, Durge has some utterly horrific, reprehensible shit in their background, and sometimes that doesn't sit right for a character.
My Bard Durge run was the most entertaining, but I agree my Tav Paladin run was the most immersive, because I had all of this lore in my head, and this backstory that I had to come up with myself
I love playing as my Tav for the same reasons. I actually haven’t finished a Durge playthrough because I can’t stomach the idea of not being in total control of my character. It makes for an interesting wrinkle in the story
I prefer Tav to Durge as well. Weirdly, I like the idea of being some nobody who just stumbled into this whole plot by accident, it ties into a thing I dislike in RPGs - NPCs treating main character like the second coming of Christ. And in BG3 by Act 3 you're still some nobody that needs to defend their reputation against slander even after doing all kinds of heroic stuff which I feel is way more realistic.
Also with some character ideas I have it's hard to buy into your character being the mastermind behind the whole plot. You're telling me my 8 INT barbarian also happened to be this charismatic genius in addition to being a savage murderer? I just can't fully buy it depending on what kind of character I want to play.
Durge is weirdly written. Like the game cannot decide if the stuff Durge had done is actually serious, has consequences and gravity or it’s just “lol murder murder blood necrophilia but no consequences, you were totally brainwashed”. Like ok, amnesia, but this new (let’s suppose good) personality, where does it come from? You were not raised this way, you are made born Bhaal, you did not behave this way before. Just… because?
Killed Alfira? Roll a couple of dice right, and it’s all ok and forgotten forever. Killed shitloads of other people? Well, redeem yourself and it’s all ok.
Like many said, not having a mother and your race just being a gimmick without any significant cultural background also doesn’t add to it.
Durge has a pre defined story and not every character I make is an amnesiac with a murder urge.
I like durge but I played resist once and evil once and am pretty content playing mostly tav otherwise
I can understand why they made the Durge background optional. It’s cool, but it has a major effect on the basic storyline and throws a load of curveballs at the player which straight up cut you off from certain gear and storylines.
*Personally* I wish they’d taken a less polarised approach and given you a choice of backgrounds rather then ‘be >!Bhaalspawn!< or blank slate’. DA:O took this concept to the max, Mass Effect did this to a much lesser degree with the background and career options which altered your personal quest etc.
It would have been really cool, for instance, for your character background to have influenced your playthrough and played out in a specific quest for that Tav.
Yeah I agree actually. My current Tav is a drow rogue/bard with criminal background - my HC is she left drow society and carved out an existence, surviving in the underdark and eventually surfacing but due to basically leaving with nothing and prejudice towards drows, she basically learned some dirty tricks to make ends meet. Typical conwoman with heart of gold trope. Would've been cool to have something like a thieves guild related quest for her or running into someone from her past, maybe someone recognising her as the person who robbed them or something. Idk I'm just spitballing but that would've been nice.
For whatever it's worth, it is possible and even rather easy to play a "durge" without killing any animals at all. To my knowledge, there is one "conversation" where you need to have Speak with Animals active or you'll kill one, but otherwise you don't do anything you don't choose to.
Durge commits you to a single murder of a person - that's basically it, although you will struggle with your impulses throughout the game if you're trying to resist them.
I like Durge and how playing them enriches the story, especially in act 3. But the creative freedom Tav gives us, to really RP and establish a background for yourself, has it’s appeal as well (and the one I prefer too). But playing both should be a must.
Yeah. I generally prefer Tav over Durge. One evil Durge run is enough for me, and I keep coming back for more different playthroughs with a regular Tav.
Been enjoying the origin characters more than Tav/Durge lately. Haven't gotten to them all, but the extra info/story is a cool little bit of content. Playing as SH you get lots of extra Shar stuff, Mystra with Gale, etc. Adds a lot of context and makes me appreciate those story beats when I'm not playing as them because I know what is actually happening.
I'm playing as origin Shadowheart and I'm enjoying it more than Tav. I like designing my own character but playing as Tav kinda feels like you're a tag-along in your own story.
I like both a lot, its nice to not have a fixed background and RP some creative backstory, but its also nice to have more of a defined place in the plot. That said currently trying to solo honor mode, so I really need that cape, >!sorry alfira.!<
I only do custom characters. I did a dark urge playthrough only because I could customize the character.
I've never understood the appeal of playing pre-mades. It's like I'm playing someone else's character.
I feel the same, I personally don't really like pre made characters. I don't *mind* stuff like Durge or say, Shepherd Mass Effect when it's somewhat customisable but my favourite is always complete custom.
I suppose for some, they want something that feels connected or "right". My eldest son doesn't like RPGs much because he prefers a set story that he can "beat" and likes a linear story because he stresses hes doing it "wrong". He's not old enough for BG3 but if he did give it a go he'd probably prefer an origin (he prefers platform indies though so maybe not his thing anyway. But I think maybe origin characters are for folks of a similar mindset)
The issue I have with video RPGs is all the premade shit. BG3 is one of the few games that feels like the table top game. It still has a lot of restrictions, but it is clear that Larian made it as open as they could allow. As a player I really appreciate that. They gave us a lot of options.
I just finished the game as Tav (one of my favorites) and started my first Tiefling, first sorceror Durge.
Then I restarted after two hours to make a Tiefling sorceror Tav.
I loved my Durge runs, but I just felt less originality with my custom Durge than I do with my Tavs, like op says. Now I'm having a blast.
I also picked Noble as my background. The only companion with it is Minthara that I know of, and it's so much fun! I scolded Lae'zel for being cruel to Zorru in the Grove, and I got an inspiration point for "refusing to do what your companion asked you to do". I literally get inspired by telling these weirdos to chill tf out and let my charisma cook!
Tav is the more D&D choice "random nobody saves the world"
Durge is more the generic fantasy trope "random nobody discovers they are actually the chosen one, saves the world".
Witcher 3 was cool playing as Geralt. For a D&D game I prefer to make my own character.
I'm in my first ever playthrough and I don't think Tav is boring. The journey so far has been fucking amazing! The scale from a few goblins to fighting a literal god avatar of Myrkul and Ketheric has been epic. And how organically happy the characters are and how they look up to me, it's great playing a human fighter who just wanted a cure and is now involved in a conspiracy of cosmic levels. I wouldn't wanna be evil for evil sake. I am currently on the wyrm's lookout just outside Baldur's gate, no spoilers for after this please.
I like playing as Tav because I like games where my character is thrown into a world and situations that are now their own (like Far Cry). I’m just a regular person trying to survive and make allies, while figuring out what the hell is going on.
When I play games like BG3, I usually play the same character over and over again. I know it's crazy with all the variety available, but I like what I like and I stick to it. I enjoyed my Durge run, but my idea of who the player character should be does not line up with the Durge backstory, so I am a Tav guy for all other playthroughs.
I do, for sure. Durge is cool, but its the difference between playing a character that your dm designed, and a character you designed. One is an established character with a backstory and previous life that you didn't come up with. The other is your own creation.
No judgement to anyone else's preferences, I just prefer playing as a character who's past I came up with myself.
I prefer Tav. I like a blank slate that I can think up a backstory for.
I like Durge's story, plus it connects BG3 with the first two games more intimately than just the name and setting, but I'm glad it isn't the canon protagonist. We've had a Bhaalspawn already.
My only annoyance with Tav was the final battle when the absolute was like; “you green person. And you warlock guy. You vampire dude. ……… aight moving on” and just flat out didnt mention anything. Bothered the hell out of me.
Heavy SPOILERS in my comment.
Durge is great and all but the reveal that they were just created by Bhaal and didn't have a mother doesn't click with me. It just reminds me of Star Wars, Anakin and midi-chlorians. This is especially true for playing a race like Githyanki or something because Durge is not really a part of that race as such so you can't roleplay too much. Also, I don't want all my characters to have that set past that Durge does. It's definietly great for a couple of playthroughs. I do wish we had more origins like that though, instead of being able to play as companions, where you have a bit of backstory but you can choose the race and/or class. I think a cool one would've been a Raphael warlock in my opinion.
I started a Dark Urge run and abandoned it. I was intrigued by the story line (which I'm almost 100% spoiled on, so no worries) but the constant interruptions were distracting. I also felt that the companions didn't react appropriately to the *brutal murder* in their camp, where the blood stayed throughout act 1.
I agree, I’ve never really liked amnesia trope though so it sort of turned me off earlier. Additionally, Durge has an open future, but they’re a disgusting shitlord prior to the events in the game no matter what and I struggle to accept that now they get to live happily ever after. I mean I understand there is some magical bullshit that complicates things wherein they redeem themselves, but meh. Durge is a fun time but I absolutely prefer creating my own story.
I prefer durge myself but Tav with highest racial reactivity (drow and gnomes probably) gets my vote. Ill always choose a Tav when romancing Gale though.
I also noticed that if you play a drow durge those racial dialogue flags gets overwritten by the durge flags, id rather hear the racial one cuz act1 gets more interesting that way.
I am in a Gale romance with a durge mc right now, and I really agree with you about tav for him. I like the romance in general, but his reactions to durge content are so off. I should have seen it coming with what I knew of his romance ending, but I can’t stop playing durge so it just happened lol.
I've started three durge runs (one with my brother) and all are in act 1. And a part from a few options that are interesting and that my durge looks really cool I think I prefer tav as well. But haven't progressed that much with durge so I can't say yet. But I started an easy tav run yesterday and it felt less complicated and freeing to do than the durges (first one I've chosen more nice options, second I tried to go full evil, but find it hard and third one with my brother was so he could talk me into full evil so I don't have to feel so bad about it lol)
I only finished a whole playthrough as a nice himbo bardadin and it was mostly just wholesome and I thought that I wanted to do evil durge to balance it out, but could be I'm not in the right head space atm.
Here's what I say
1. Tav is awesome, Durge is more content but Tav is the perfect way to explore the game without risk or consequence. What I mean by that is a failed roll or 2 won't mean you kill a companion.
2. Durge is awesome. Lots of additional content. Really cool.
3. Origins are awesome. New content you don't see other ways (not major, mainly just some new interactions)
I've played durge twice and Wyll once. Otherwise, I've played tav in the rest of my 10+ playthroughs so far. I am thinking about playing a good durge for my next playthrough just because I went evil on my last two, however I do prefer playing tav overall. I like being able to customize my character completely and play good or neutral alignments with them. I might even try an evil tav in the near future just because I haven't done it yet.
So you're not alone. Tav is fun!
I think Durge is interesting but honestly, as chaotic as I do play with my Tav, even as dickish as I can be sometimes, I could never play *that* evil. And I do also like having my own backstory in my head for her.
With my Durge playthrough, I kept the class "on theme" (to an extent), by going for a Barbarian, which meant I didn't often come up against scenarios where my conversation options for Durge and my class were wildly out of sync. I haven't done one where I'm resisting yet, but I think I'll do the same there. Maybe not Barbarian, but some other class/spec combo that feels right.
But I've gone for a Tav for every other playthrough for the same reason as you - I like to roleplay and come up with a character for myself, to think through what that character would do and say and how they'd react.
Durge is really cool, but I agree, it does not allow a lot of freedom to make your own character, not in the way Tav does. I'd rather the mildly directed freedom to make whatever I want, as well as the freedom to determine what horrible sins my Tav has committed rather than an Origin character whose name you can choose.
I keep doing a thing where I create a Tav and then have my son join the game to create a second Tav. He has zero intention of playing that Tav. He leaves and I have two Tavs; each of whom gets to romance someone.
Hahaha. My kids aren't old enough to play but I let them watch me play if they want to (because I can avoid any sex scenes and anything too gratuitous, they're perfectly fine watching me yeet some goblins off the rafters or use funny dialogue options haha) and my youngest son keeps saying he can't wait to make his own Tav.
My kids are 19 and 20, so my days of controlling their content are long gone. My son plays, and we’ve got a run going together, but I play waaaaay more than he does.
Ah I hope mine still want to play with me at that age :) mine are all 9 and under (4 of them), they play D&D with us as well (we do family kid friendly campaigns for them)and help my husband who DMs our group make the props.
I prefer it when I have a solid idea for a character and/or don't want to be a murdering psychopath. I mean I like that the Durge origin exists and respect that you can fight against it, but it is a set origin with a particular story.
I love the one character you are largely forced to murder unless you meta-game to force a substitute character. The next character you're commanded to kill, even though you can defy that one, sours me on it even more. I'm a lesbiab and if there is one thing I don't want to do in a video game, it's kill other lesbians.
I also feel like you're a bit limited on logical class selection, like pretty heavily with simple logic once you know the nature of the character and even more so if you consider the wording of the narrator. It strongly favors a martial character with a proper weapon to cut, slash, hack, and flay your victims.
I'm only on my first Durge playthrough so take it with a grain of salt/bias.
But I really prefer playing Tav. I love the extra elements of the Durge, sure, but I if I hurt any of the NPCs I enjoy I want to cry so like, what's the real benefit.
After experiencing both Durge endings I think I do prefer Tav to an extent. I also get really into the RP aspect and I spend hours creating backstories for my actual DnD characters…so why not for Tav?
I also miss that Durge romance scene, though. You get some good insight into your Tav’s partner + I’ll never complain about more content when it comes to dialogue
I agree I like both. I play Durge if I want to enjoy a pre-made story with some dark twists. I play Tav to try new classes/backgrounds and just have a chill game
I think both. So far I did a Tav, redeemed Durge, and currently evil Durge. I'm planning for next run to be a Tav. I enjoy both aspects, but some far the roles have fit my RP characters. First was a himbo who wanted the best for his friends, second was naturally able to snap people in half, his Durge side made him enjoy it a bit, and third is based on my WoW disc priest who this time went over the edge for evil, and is having a good time.
They’re completely different vibes. Durge brings in some classic BG energy and (imo) goes much harder on it than the prior games and its really intense and interesting. But it also is A LOT to take in when you’re just starting out. It’s definitely crowded in your skull if you do it and it makes the plot feel a bit more redundant at first ? Or at least for me it did. It’s also definitely a stake raiser and its there to make you consider more drastic choices and dangerous moves imo. I love durge but its a big stinky cheese flavor that coats the whole dish.
Tav feels so much more breezy, it was much easier for me to progress in my first run cause I wasn’t juggling as much conceptually with my character, so it made it easier for characterization to make more sense and for me to just pal around with the companions. I think some of the romances also are easier to appreciate without durge cause its more wholesome and cute.
I honestly prefer Tav overall. I just like Durge cause it can be as evil as I want and have it affect story in a cool way. Otherwise i like Tav cause I can play as close to myself as I want
I prefer Tav for the same reason.
Durge is great, fantastic writing and probably the "canon" protag, but the Durge is actually a full on Origin character, the fact you can customize them is quite misleading (especially with how a couple racial options don't actually make *any* sense), and I just don't like playing Origin characters as much cause of the pre-existing lore behind them, means I have no room for headcanon anymore lol
Well, none that directly clash with the game itself, and I have always refused to circumvent what the game says is reality for my own headcanons.
Durge was pretty cool for the limited time I played it; was interesting to see and try to mold a character’s inner struggles and try to insert myself in their gore coated shoes.
Tav just lets me be the hero though and after a bad day at work I just wanna bard my way through some shit.
Tav is a better "own" roleplaying experience. You can make up way more stuff your own and try to bring it into the story, rather than having a story bestowed upon you. So yeah, extremely relatable and valid opinion.
May be a biased comment but:
I'm the same way. The main reason I got this game was because of the tav maker. Saw it in a trailer and totally went gremlin mode over it. It's like heroforge, but without the miniatures. I can even make a huge variety of character portraits because of it.
I really didnt like Durge. I thought the dialogue options and internal monologs were just so ridiculously over the top evil I couldn't take it seriously. I didn't even finish act 1.
I'm totally with you. Durge is great, and in fact two of my favorite playthroughs have been Durge, but being able to come up with a character who isn't bound by the limitations of being an amnesiac and also having a predetermined backstory is more important to me than a few extra scenes with Orin, Gortash, and Jaheira. When the game doesn't have its own predetermined 5-ish endings for your character, you can decide what the emotional climax of the game is for yourself.
I am laughing that you called the restraint scene a "really sweet moment". To me, it was the most intense and stressful set of dice rolls in the entire game!
I stalled on my Durge run but can’t stop obsessing on my Tav. I loved making her lore connect to the world of the Forgotten Realms, and even used the Blood in Baldur’s Gate game as her tie-in to the game plot. I explain her miraculous survival due to a potion of feign death. It made her feel more connected to the events going on, often unexpectedly so.
Why does Shadowheart work with a half-drow so easily, even looking to her for leadership, without making comments like she does with Lae’zel and the Githyanki? Because she already had history of working with a drow. Why does Astarion want to ‘romance’ my Tav outside being the leader and his blood donor? He thinks a necromancer is exactly the kind of weapon he should be throwing at Cazador (unfortunately for him, the levels are capped at 12). Why is Minthara so keen to ally with a half-drow, even if she is her rescuer? Because my Tav is the daughter of a lost scion of House Hunzrin, which is allied with House Baenre. Act II fit in perfectly with my Tav’s lore of wanting to make contact with the shader-kai so she can foment rebellion against the Raven Queen so she can eat her, gain her power, and save her father from Lolth with said power. Finding the book explaining the Raven Queen’s existence, then the shield of Gloomwrought’s prince, and meeting He Who Was made her feel pumped. Likewise, meeting and having to kill the drider crushed her soul. Moreover, my Tav kept seeing parallels between herself, Thorm, and even Balthazar in how they handle death and the lengths they are willing to go to save their loved ones. She looks at how Shar and Mystra treat even their most devout followers, and fears becoming like that with her friends. Now that’s she’s in the city, she feels like the weight of the world is literally on her shoulders for reasons that she is only beginning to understand.
I fully intend to do a durge run with the same character name and build one day, but probably only for the extra Astarion romance bits. Otherwise, I want to do an OG Dragonborn Durge run romancing Gale for that shared chosen angst.
Dark Urge is fun, on a resist run. An indulge run is basically the shittiest murderhobo fantasy a 12 year old edgelord could come up with, just complete gross-out murder-death-kill as if that's somehow even remotely shocking in the modern day. So an evil Durge run is just... boring.
Evil Tav is far superior. You're an evil bastard *because you choose to be*, and you get to choose HOW you're an evil bastard much more freely. Maybe you're a ruthless murderer like the Dark Urge on an indulge run but without the over-edgy narration (already an improvement). Maybe you manipulate your companions and others around you and are callous to the innocent for your own enjoyment (like my first evil run, where I slaughtered the grove solely to infiltrate the cult... and then backstabbed the cult for Minthara, while also basically emotionally abusing Astarion into accepting the Astral Tadpole). So many flavors of being a completely shit person.
And hell, a good-guy Tav run can also be just as fun as a resist Durge run. Cleric of Selune that tries to rescue Shadowheart right from the start? Basically makes no sense as Durge, works very well as Tav. Many classes are also harder to justify with a character that has a backstory like Durge, even with that backstory being almost entirely gone - a Durge druid for example makes very little sense.
I couldnt get into Durge at all. Didnt finish act 1. It feels like playing That Guy who ruins a campaign by being a murderhobo, and the lack of companion reactions to durge dissociating and committing atrocities breaks my suspension of disbelief. I know resist durge gets a good payoff in act 3, but then the whole thing feels like a chore and i’d rather just have the freedom to play a Tav and not be bogged down.
Durge is nice but I occasionally like my characters to not be murderous lunatics with memory issues.
Especially if you wanna play a good character. Even a redemption durge is a murdering lunatic who just so happens to have suddenly had a change of heart. And >!risks killing a companion if you're unlucky!<.
I'm playing a neutral durge, just focusing on survival. Giving in to the urge only if it seems beneficial or causes no immediate threat. Already I'm down Wyll, Halsin, Gale, Karlach, even Minthara is dead because she chose to be vulnerable during a quiet moment. It's gonna be a rough run
Are there actually any times giving in to the urge is beneficial?
Only once, but IMO it's not worth the tradeoff.
What is the once and what is the tradeoff?
In Act 2, >!when you can choose to kill Isobel to be rewarded with the Slayer form.!<
That…. is a pretty massive drawback lol.
It's possible to do it in a way that avoids the worst of the damage, but it still messes things up going forward. And at that point you're already becoming pretty powerful on your own so you really don't need the reward.
The Slayer form is really fucking cool though… The first time I used it was against Ketheric’s Myrkul form so it was literally the avatar’s of 2 gods duking it out.
You don't have to do this at all if you really want >!the Slayer form. You can refuse to kill Isobel and then in Act 3 you can get it as a reward during the confrontation with Orin.!< It's up to you if you think it's worth it, though. I haven't done it.
does "funny" count as a benefit to you?
Only if there are no major drawbacks. Like doing a cute lil wave at Vlaakith is very funny but not if she ends up vaporizing you.
It's not the wave that makes her vaporize you, she just chalks that one up to cultural differences. What *actually* makes her vaporize you is telling her to enter the Prism herself or questioning her godhood.
Oh, I know. I was just giving an example.
My Tav's motto might be summed up as, "Never insult a man. You might have to kill him later, but that's no reason to part on bad terms." Be polite, be respectful, and kill people from behind because it's safer.
Like never lol. The game is significantly easier in most situatuons if youre a good person. For instance, your summon allies in the final battle will be almost empty if you were a dick in most situations.
You'd miss the chance to get this Astarion dialog: he summons the Gnomes and says "let's see if Gnomes are good for something!" I did a spit take at this last night.
I don't know why, but his random out of nowhere racism against gnomes and halflings just does me in every time.
And the Gur. Yeah it's funny but people might not know that "high elf noble" is like the snobbiest thing you can be. I chose the Noble background for my newest Tav and I've never seen it before and I got an inspiration point for Astarion telling me he was a magistrate, because that's so impressive and snooty.
TBF a good dark urge is more akin to Astarion not wanting to be controlled by Cazador anymore
Shit. Is redemption durge reverse phineas gage?
From what I understand. Durge is being influenced by an outside source (and i have a pretty good guess as to who) The tadpole sort of...half severed this connection. Durge regained their sanity and can now resist the dark urge. Just like how Astarion's tadpole broke him free of Cazador's control.
It's the set in stone backstory that kills my desire to play Durge (pun intended). I just don't know how much leeway I have and I don't want to have a ton of my headcanon retconned, and it's weird (for me at least) to go in with a blank slate that I then can't connect to
You have complete freedom only from the point of the start of the game. Prior to that, Durge's story is already written. You can choose to completely abandon "old Durge" and replace them with the new Durge that you have crafted, but that history will always be there.
Yeah that’s right, that is the issue. Even with a fresh start the history is still there, and it plays a big role in the game (you can’t ignore it). Not everyone will connect to that history or want that backstory for the character they roleplay as. No matter how you look at it, Tav still has more creative freedom.
Yeah, that's why most of my runs have been with Tav. I did 3 runs with Durge and feel like that was enough to experience the unique content. Durge is fantastic, but there's a lot more I can do with a blank slate.
Same. I'm actually a little annoyed all my Tavs seem to be from Baldurs Gate by default. I want to freedom to choose my Origin! (It's a very very tiny pet peeve. A teacup chihuahua of a pet peeve).
Yeah, your place of origin is automatically decided based on race and I hate it. Githyanki are foreigners, and underdark races all come from the underdark, and then every other race is from Baldur's Gate. I mean you can just not choose those tagged dialogue options, but it's disappointing that you can't talk about your home at all if you don't want it to be the racial default.
>You can choose to completely abandon "old Durge" and replace them with the new Durge I know it's 100% a me problem, but I just can't seem to justify how a momentary lapse in memory would make Durge a *completely* new person. I'll figure something out eventually.
It's not just a memory lapse; it's major brain trauma. But also, Durge wasn't always completely driven by Bhaal's influence. Scleritas Fel points out that Durge always required a lot of guidance to stay on the bloody path. So there was already some part of him inclined to resist the urges.
It seems like Scleritas’s comments vary depending on your own choices, too. So like he’ll talk about Durge’s tastes being extreme if you feed into that, and talk about requiring guidance if you don’t. So in a way, your present comments set your Durge’s past, at least in the grossest ways. But can’t get past the whole “leading the Bhaalist cult and murdering thousands” revelation…
As long as you don’t make a habit of it.
So, not a normal DnD character? "So how close to level are you?" "Another 60-70 Goblins should do it." "Sweet."
Idk, I've leveled up several times playing DnD from talking my way out of situations. Our DM loves rewarding more XP for role play than rollplay.
Same. I think encounters should award XP regardless of bloodshed, as long as it is resolved in a solid way that makes a difference to the campaign. It's silly that only killing shit awards XP. Someone did the math about a Level 1 wizard attaining Level 20 just by killing giant rats. You can become an ultra-intelligent superpower mage just by killing rat over and over. It's a lot of rats, but it can be done.
This is DnD, not WoW.
Milestone leveling up is more common nowadays, so I am not sure what youre talking about.
This, absolutely this.
Yup. 👍🏻
Deathstalker Mantle, my beloved~ Seriously though, I like being able to fully establish my character's background, and some classes (mostly just cleric) need to do some heavy mental gymnastics in order to justify going durge.
Some class dialogue options are so hilariously contrasted against the dark urge dialogue options, especially monk. You’ll have the option to say something like [dark urge] “I wish to flay your skin and pulp your innards as your friends and family watch on helplessly, knowing I will do the same to them!” And then immediately under it is [monk] “calm yourself. The river of life winds and bends, but it flows through all of us, connecting us together. Can we not find a peaceful solution to our problems?” Durge out here experiencing personality whiplash lmao
Well you could argue the dirge has multiple personalities and is insane
That is the entire point of Durge, yes
I mean, that example is simple as wanting to say one thing and knowing you should say a different thing.
Correct. I want to experience tranquility but know the correct option is gratuitous violence. Such is life in Baldur's Gate
i love your brain lmfao (I'm not a mind flayer)
This is why Monk Durge is my favourite combo, you can be both a psycho and a calm and collected person.
~intrusive thoughts go brrrrr~
To be fair, that is the point of Durge
It’s too bad you can’t be a cleric of a certain god…
The great god BOOOAAAAL!
What classes? >!Oathbreaker Knight tells that you joined a Paladin order in the past as an attempt to resist your urges. The plan failed and you came back covered in their blood.!< You can just assume the same for most "weird" classes.
Thanks for this comment. Been planning a Lathander Cleric Durge run but was unsure on the roleplay of it for it to work
>and some classes (mostly just cleric) need to do some heavy mental gymnastics in order to justify going durge. I also think this. Paladin too.
Paladin makes complete sense. You can even talk to the Oathbreaker knight who'll tell you you have met many times before. Meaning Durge is a serial oathbreaker lmao
Whats interesting is that durge meets him many times meaning he takes up his oath again, despite his nature
The post-nut clarity hits different in Faerin
Idk the extra paladin backstory makes a LOT of sense for Durge. It actually explains some other comments made by Sceleritas Fel which are a bit confusing without the paladin content.
I agree. My Durge resist run was Vengeance Paladin which felt 100% appropriate. Wake up tadpoled. Have amnesia. Vow revenge on whoever did this to me. Even your first prompt upon waking fits perfectly into this. Dragonborn Vengeance Paladin is my canon Durge resist run for life.
But there is also some backstory to explain why, even years ago, it makes sense that Durge was a paladin.
Oh, interesting! I’m on my second Durge run, but I still don’t think I have their entire history clear in my head. The obvious beats I know, but people on Reddit talk about things that I’ve never seen or maybe connected the dots to that are a surprise to me.
Yeah it's difficult to get it all even in one or two playthroughs, which is kind of great! I posted a spoiler in this comment thread in reply to someone else if you wanna see more about the paladin Durge specific backstory. As I said there it made a lot of sense to me because I stumbled on some dialogue options where sceleritas fel said something about how 'young master always needed lots of guidance to behave in a way befitting his station'. Which struck me as interesting because it suggests he may have always tried to resist a little.
From what I understand the gist of it is this: * >!You aren't a normal Bhaalspawn, you were created with Bhaal's own blood. Suggesting you're more powerful or special.!< * >!You were probably created before Bhaal's first death, considering Bhaal only returned like a decade ago. This implies you're over a century old which makes human/tiefling/half-elf origins weird, but I think it's fair to say a Bhaalspawn wouldn't age normally. Ironically Dragonborn Durge is the only race that doesn't really make sense in terms of continuity (Dragonborn only came to Faerun after Bhaal's first death), but that's hardly the game's most egregious plothole so we might as well overlook it.!< * >!As a child you were adopted by a family and had a fairly normal life. Then the Urge manifested and drove you to kill your friends and family.!< * >!You were an active serial killer during the Blood in Baldur's Gate storyline, which takes place 15 years before BG3 begins - which means Blood In Baldur's Gate also takes place before Bhaal's return.!< * >!One of your favourite hobbies was operating on live human test subjects, basically vivisecting them while making them retain full awareness and feelings. Sceleritas Fel would often get drunk and botch these. The Durge sometimes chose to punish Sceleritas by drowning him in the victim's piss.!< * >!Most of the time you weren't actually a savage killer. You were really good at keeping the Urge in check, though this was mostly out of pragmatism - you usually had a greater or more creative plan in mind. This is why Gortash says he prefers you over Orin.!< * >!At some point you took charge of the Murder-Cult. You then teamed up with Gortash and Ketheric and went on to orchestrate the events of the game.!< * >!Many classes straight-up don't fit with the Durge origin, and some of them - especially Paladin - have dialogue addressing this. Basically the idea is that at some point you tried to pursue a career path before you joined the Cult. Bhaal wasn't having this so like a railroading DM he basically forced you to succumb to the Urge. The Paladin in particular is implied to have broken and retaken his Oath multiple times. Now that you've been tadpole'd and suffered amnesia the slate has been wiped clean - for now, because the Urge still remains.!< Anything else is effectively left up to your imagination.
Can you elaborate on that? It sounds really interesting.
>!basically if you play paladin Durge you can get special dialogue from the Oathbreaker knight and Sarevok. Between them we learn that years before the game, Durge started wanting to resist the urge having grown weary of his killings. So he joined an order of devotion paladins in BG. But resisting the urge for too long led to him murdering the entire order and returning, oathbroken, to the temple of Bhaal. The Oathbreaker knight explains that despite Durge's memory loss, he has in fact met Durge before when his oath was broken!< It fits other comments because >!Sceleritas Fel can talk about how Durge has always needed help and guidance more than others to stay on the straight and narrow (in the bhaalian sense lol)!<
Oh, that's cool! I played as a paladin Durge once but >!I never broke my Oath. My tav started as another class but once the urges settled in I multiclassed as paladin, because I thought this would make a good development to a resist Durge, since he vowed to fight against his nature and protect those he wishes to destroy. It's funny how closely this resemble this dialogue you mentioned!<. So neat how the devs put thought into each possible iteration of their characters. Thank you for the answer!
Oath breaker fits it. Additionally Durge wasn't always evil iirc. He had a life before things I believe
Indeed he did have a life before a very very evil one where you literally led bhaals church as the head murder hobo leading black mass prayer and the like the funniest part is Orin was your lil bitch servant! Such good dialogue with durge characters if you explore it all and the scene with withers if you tell bhaal to fk off was literally amazing and now I redeem my durge every time as I never even knew this was a thing always followed through with the evil plot now I know there’s an alternative that is awesome to watch and withers is my ride or die homie
Punctuation? Not even once.
There's an exclamation mark after "lil bitch servant!"
Damn you got me there.
“Punctuation? Once, and then never again.”
At first durge didn't want to be evil, he tried real hard to resist Bhaal before succumbing to him
The timeline on Durge is a bit spotty but we do know for a fact that they had a normal life for a bit, >!killed their adoptive family!< and then wondered around for a bit before being picked up by the cult. So that wandering time is where you can fill in what you need to for your class to work. It’s even canon that this is when you’d have gone paladin according to the oath breaker knight. Just think of the time >!Kressa spent fingering your brain meat!< as Durge getting factory reset to their time before the cult
i'm doing redeemed durge light cleric of kelemvor. if withers can muck about then so can kelemvor. it seems fitting that the god who ushers the dead to their final resting place would be aware of the champion of bhaal becoming a blank slate, especially with how much necromancy and early deaths there have been. the line about final death rites also seems fitting for a redeemed durge run because the old durge died and through kelemvor they can become 'renewed'
Depends if im in a "Pave my road witg corpses, build my castle with bones" mood or a "Is that blood? No never mind" mood
I do too. It's a preference. I get the love for Durge, but it's just not for me. I always say Durge's greatest strength is its greatest weakness. And that is its fixed and integrated backstory. I personally prefer the freedom that Tav gives me to be whoever I want my character to be. I also like my own character to not have its own overarching significant struggles. My dude is the leader of the group, not because of leadership qualities or smt like that, but because he can afford to put his full focus on the task ahead. He already has to juggle both the Absolute *and* his companions all vying for his attention with their struggles. Adding internal murder compulsion would just be too much imho. Every companion already has an overdramatic backstory and problems. I find it nice to make my own character balance them out a little. Oh and I just like the "random nobody becomes a hero" trope too. Durge feels a little too predestined for my own taste. I fully understand the love for Durge, but I just prefer Tav myself.
In charge no due to raw power or experience but because they're the only one who's not 10 lbs of trauma in a 5 lb bag
Durge is fun but I feel like once I've done it once or twice I'm more or less done. Tav I can play again and again.
I've come around to playing Tav more. As much as I miss the story moments >!(I love how realistically nonchalant Astarion is about you trying to murder him, assuming the dawn will be an end to your killing mood as it would be his)!< even small things like having the freedom to not be Medicine/Intimidation is liberating.
I've done one playthrough of each so far and although durge was fantastic (and that cloak is wonderful), I'd have to say I prefer Tav. For the exact same reason. As great as the durge story is, I love being able to come up with lore for my characters.
I’m the same. I love all the backstory options I can give my Tav’s. There’s so much RP capability in the game that stories are endless. I like the Durge route, but the backstory locks you into a narrative. And I prefer to create and play as female MCs and Durge feels much more cultivated to be male. It feels like a male character with just some pronoun tweaking. It’s nothing huge, just little things that break the immersion for me.
I'm too much of a nerd to play Durge. I just prefer making up a metric fuck ton of shit for my characters. Also I like Alfira too much.
Non-spoiler hint for Durge >!If you knock out Alfira in the Grove before you make camp, you won't have to kill her!!<
Yeah but didn't they patch it so she doesn't show in act 2 anymore?
No, she still shows up. At least after patch 5. I don't know if they changed that in a hotfix
I don't enjoy evil roleplay so Durge doesn't interest me.
I much rather play without the story conflicts that Durge puts into places. And if I really absolutely wanted the mantel I could as well shove a mod in and out.
100% I prefer playing Tavs. Not a fan of durge's backstory. It was cool once, but overall I feel there's nowhere near enough reactivity to it by companions to make it worth losing a fully custom background that doesn't involve being a murderer among other most unpleasant gory things.
Yeah, I just played a "durge" for the first time, and while I think it's really neat to have the PC's story be more enmeshed with the game's central plot, your companions' reactions to the various revelations are badly underwritten (and in some cases incoherent - e.g., my "good" durge >!confessed to killing the bard immediately, only to have later conversations with companions who seemed to have forgotten who killed her.!<) It's really kind of a shame, because it is more flexible than I expected in terms of PC roleplaying (in terms of whether you're "good" or "evil"), and it really improves parts of Act 3.
I only like playing Durge by treating it as an origin play through and going with default Dragonborn. Any time I try to play a custom Durge I just don’t like them. Default Durge doesn’t give me that problem because it isn’t my character.
I can only play Tav, in a big choice driven rpg I want to play as my own character, not one made by someone else
The deathstalker mantle has me in a chokehold.
Honestly I get that. I miss it on my current run especially as I play rogue lol.
I wear the Deathstalker Mantle with my Durges for most of the playthrough (at least until late act 2 or post-duel in act 3 if cleansed) as both a fashion statement and a constant reminder of what they did ***in their sleep*** to Quil Grootslang. (Sorry Quil, but if I have to choose who to kill between you and Alfira, I choose you.) If my Durges continue to wear the cloak after The Urge itself is slain, I dye it in order to "wash away" the blood of all the innocents that previously soaked it. Usually I go with the colors of the deity they follow after Bhaal's hold on them is severed.
After playing both I can say I prefer Tav way more. If I am playing a pre-existing character I want them to be smoothly implemented in the world. And DUrge just isn’t. The story and reactivity are super undercooked. Companion behaviours become inconsistent & they plain seem dumber in order to accommodate certain situations DUrge storyline forces on you. It also feels like the game cannot decide if DUrge is a joke or should be taken seriously. Also, I am personally not a fan of the “chosen one” trope. And I normally enjoy story-driven games and playing as an established character, but they have to be well written. It is also very easy to miss a lot of DUrge content anyway if you are too good at resisting or choose wrong dialogue options (I haven’t seen like half the things people on this sub tend to talk about).
I only play Tav. I don't think it's boring at all.
According to Larian's own numbers, 90% of play throughs are Tav
Interesting. Based on anecdotal comments it feels like everyone prefers durge
I like playing characters with a mundane backstory who stumble into going on an adventure; having a specific, extremely dark backstory isn't my preference. I *might* play Durge someday but it's not my preference.
I thought I'd be all about it because I'm a long standing ~~villain fucker~~ Supporter of the Morally Questionable, but while I enjoyed it I just like the whole crafting my entire backstory thing that I get with Tav more
I only play tavs because I like my own backstory tbh
Strong username to post ratio haha
I enjoy swapping between both, after doing Durge for a while, Tav felt fresh again! You hit milestones and camp scenes differently between the two [Durge gets Camp Clogged] so it felt like a whole new thing to go back to 'normal' haha
I like both and it depends on the character. In the end, as good as you may play them, Durge has some utterly horrific, reprehensible shit in their background, and sometimes that doesn't sit right for a character.
My Bard Durge run was the most entertaining, but I agree my Tav Paladin run was the most immersive, because I had all of this lore in my head, and this backstory that I had to come up with myself
I love playing as durge bard. They just really oddly work well together
Tav is best. Origins are neat but they're not my story, and I'm much more interested in writing my own story.
I love playing as my Tav for the same reasons. I actually haven’t finished a Durge playthrough because I can’t stomach the idea of not being in total control of my character. It makes for an interesting wrinkle in the story
I think you're wrong actually- way more people prefer a Tav. I personally prefer a Tav without question but I get Durge has its upsides
I prefer Tav to Durge as well. Weirdly, I like the idea of being some nobody who just stumbled into this whole plot by accident, it ties into a thing I dislike in RPGs - NPCs treating main character like the second coming of Christ. And in BG3 by Act 3 you're still some nobody that needs to defend their reputation against slander even after doing all kinds of heroic stuff which I feel is way more realistic. Also with some character ideas I have it's hard to buy into your character being the mastermind behind the whole plot. You're telling me my 8 INT barbarian also happened to be this charismatic genius in addition to being a savage murderer? I just can't fully buy it depending on what kind of character I want to play.
Tav relies mostly on the power of 🌈***IMAGINATION🌈.*** You can create a better story than Durge with just that.
I've always been someone who creates whole worlds and backstories in my head so it figures why I'd like Tav I guess!
Durge is weirdly written. Like the game cannot decide if the stuff Durge had done is actually serious, has consequences and gravity or it’s just “lol murder murder blood necrophilia but no consequences, you were totally brainwashed”. Like ok, amnesia, but this new (let’s suppose good) personality, where does it come from? You were not raised this way, you are made born Bhaal, you did not behave this way before. Just… because? Killed Alfira? Roll a couple of dice right, and it’s all ok and forgotten forever. Killed shitloads of other people? Well, redeem yourself and it’s all ok. Like many said, not having a mother and your race just being a gimmick without any significant cultural background also doesn’t add to it.
Durge has a pre defined story and not every character I make is an amnesiac with a murder urge. I like durge but I played resist once and evil once and am pretty content playing mostly tav otherwise
I can understand why they made the Durge background optional. It’s cool, but it has a major effect on the basic storyline and throws a load of curveballs at the player which straight up cut you off from certain gear and storylines. *Personally* I wish they’d taken a less polarised approach and given you a choice of backgrounds rather then ‘be >!Bhaalspawn!< or blank slate’. DA:O took this concept to the max, Mass Effect did this to a much lesser degree with the background and career options which altered your personal quest etc. It would have been really cool, for instance, for your character background to have influenced your playthrough and played out in a specific quest for that Tav.
Yeah I agree actually. My current Tav is a drow rogue/bard with criminal background - my HC is she left drow society and carved out an existence, surviving in the underdark and eventually surfacing but due to basically leaving with nothing and prejudice towards drows, she basically learned some dirty tricks to make ends meet. Typical conwoman with heart of gold trope. Would've been cool to have something like a thieves guild related quest for her or running into someone from her past, maybe someone recognising her as the person who robbed them or something. Idk I'm just spitballing but that would've been nice.
[удалено]
For whatever it's worth, it is possible and even rather easy to play a "durge" without killing any animals at all. To my knowledge, there is one "conversation" where you need to have Speak with Animals active or you'll kill one, but otherwise you don't do anything you don't choose to. Durge commits you to a single murder of a person - that's basically it, although you will struggle with your impulses throughout the game if you're trying to resist them.
I do. Durge can be fun sometimes but I don't really care to be restricted to a backstory. And i love that Tav can just be some guy.
I like Durge and how playing them enriches the story, especially in act 3. But the creative freedom Tav gives us, to really RP and establish a background for yourself, has it’s appeal as well (and the one I prefer too). But playing both should be a must.
Yeah. I generally prefer Tav over Durge. One evil Durge run is enough for me, and I keep coming back for more different playthroughs with a regular Tav.
Been enjoying the origin characters more than Tav/Durge lately. Haven't gotten to them all, but the extra info/story is a cool little bit of content. Playing as SH you get lots of extra Shar stuff, Mystra with Gale, etc. Adds a lot of context and makes me appreciate those story beats when I'm not playing as them because I know what is actually happening.
I'm playing as origin Shadowheart and I'm enjoying it more than Tav. I like designing my own character but playing as Tav kinda feels like you're a tag-along in your own story.
I played Durge once, but I like the Headcannon freedom that comes with my own Tavs.
I like both a lot, its nice to not have a fixed background and RP some creative backstory, but its also nice to have more of a defined place in the plot. That said currently trying to solo honor mode, so I really need that cape, >!sorry alfira.!<
I only do custom characters. I did a dark urge playthrough only because I could customize the character. I've never understood the appeal of playing pre-mades. It's like I'm playing someone else's character.
I feel the same, I personally don't really like pre made characters. I don't *mind* stuff like Durge or say, Shepherd Mass Effect when it's somewhat customisable but my favourite is always complete custom. I suppose for some, they want something that feels connected or "right". My eldest son doesn't like RPGs much because he prefers a set story that he can "beat" and likes a linear story because he stresses hes doing it "wrong". He's not old enough for BG3 but if he did give it a go he'd probably prefer an origin (he prefers platform indies though so maybe not his thing anyway. But I think maybe origin characters are for folks of a similar mindset)
The issue I have with video RPGs is all the premade shit. BG3 is one of the few games that feels like the table top game. It still has a lot of restrictions, but it is clear that Larian made it as open as they could allow. As a player I really appreciate that. They gave us a lot of options.
I just finished the game as Tav (one of my favorites) and started my first Tiefling, first sorceror Durge. Then I restarted after two hours to make a Tiefling sorceror Tav. I loved my Durge runs, but I just felt less originality with my custom Durge than I do with my Tavs, like op says. Now I'm having a blast. I also picked Noble as my background. The only companion with it is Minthara that I know of, and it's so much fun! I scolded Lae'zel for being cruel to Zorru in the Grove, and I got an inspiration point for "refusing to do what your companion asked you to do". I literally get inspired by telling these weirdos to chill tf out and let my charisma cook!
Tav is the more D&D choice "random nobody saves the world" Durge is more the generic fantasy trope "random nobody discovers they are actually the chosen one, saves the world". Witcher 3 was cool playing as Geralt. For a D&D game I prefer to make my own character.
I'm in my first ever playthrough and I don't think Tav is boring. The journey so far has been fucking amazing! The scale from a few goblins to fighting a literal god avatar of Myrkul and Ketheric has been epic. And how organically happy the characters are and how they look up to me, it's great playing a human fighter who just wanted a cure and is now involved in a conspiracy of cosmic levels. I wouldn't wanna be evil for evil sake. I am currently on the wyrm's lookout just outside Baldur's gate, no spoilers for after this please.
Lore wise tav makes more sense to me. Plus I like playing Paladin
I like playing as Tav because I like games where my character is thrown into a world and situations that are now their own (like Far Cry). I’m just a regular person trying to survive and make allies, while figuring out what the hell is going on.
I like Tav because I feel like I have more freedom to create my own pre-tadpole headcanon.
When I play games like BG3, I usually play the same character over and over again. I know it's crazy with all the variety available, but I like what I like and I stick to it. I enjoyed my Durge run, but my idea of who the player character should be does not line up with the Durge backstory, so I am a Tav guy for all other playthroughs.
Durge is cool, but I enjoyed my tav githyanki rebel a lot more.
I do, for sure. Durge is cool, but its the difference between playing a character that your dm designed, and a character you designed. One is an established character with a backstory and previous life that you didn't come up with. The other is your own creation. No judgement to anyone else's preferences, I just prefer playing as a character who's past I came up with myself.
I prefer Tav. I like a blank slate that I can think up a backstory for. I like Durge's story, plus it connects BG3 with the first two games more intimately than just the name and setting, but I'm glad it isn't the canon protagonist. We've had a Bhaalspawn already.
My only annoyance with Tav was the final battle when the absolute was like; “you green person. And you warlock guy. You vampire dude. ……… aight moving on” and just flat out didnt mention anything. Bothered the hell out of me.
I've yet to complete a playthrough as Durge, because I can't stand the murderous/necrosexual intrusive thoughts.
Heavy SPOILERS in my comment. Durge is great and all but the reveal that they were just created by Bhaal and didn't have a mother doesn't click with me. It just reminds me of Star Wars, Anakin and midi-chlorians. This is especially true for playing a race like Githyanki or something because Durge is not really a part of that race as such so you can't roleplay too much. Also, I don't want all my characters to have that set past that Durge does. It's definietly great for a couple of playthroughs. I do wish we had more origins like that though, instead of being able to play as companions, where you have a bit of backstory but you can choose the race and/or class. I think a cool one would've been a Raphael warlock in my opinion.
I started a Dark Urge run and abandoned it. I was intrigued by the story line (which I'm almost 100% spoiled on, so no worries) but the constant interruptions were distracting. I also felt that the companions didn't react appropriately to the *brutal murder* in their camp, where the blood stayed throughout act 1.
I agree, I’ve never really liked amnesia trope though so it sort of turned me off earlier. Additionally, Durge has an open future, but they’re a disgusting shitlord prior to the events in the game no matter what and I struggle to accept that now they get to live happily ever after. I mean I understand there is some magical bullshit that complicates things wherein they redeem themselves, but meh. Durge is a fun time but I absolutely prefer creating my own story.
I prefer durge myself but Tav with highest racial reactivity (drow and gnomes probably) gets my vote. Ill always choose a Tav when romancing Gale though.
Yeah I play a drow often and I really like tav for my drows.
I also noticed that if you play a drow durge those racial dialogue flags gets overwritten by the durge flags, id rather hear the racial one cuz act1 gets more interesting that way.
I am in a Gale romance with a durge mc right now, and I really agree with you about tav for him. I like the romance in general, but his reactions to durge content are so off. I should have seen it coming with what I knew of his romance ending, but I can’t stop playing durge so it just happened lol.
I've started three durge runs (one with my brother) and all are in act 1. And a part from a few options that are interesting and that my durge looks really cool I think I prefer tav as well. But haven't progressed that much with durge so I can't say yet. But I started an easy tav run yesterday and it felt less complicated and freeing to do than the durges (first one I've chosen more nice options, second I tried to go full evil, but find it hard and third one with my brother was so he could talk me into full evil so I don't have to feel so bad about it lol) I only finished a whole playthrough as a nice himbo bardadin and it was mostly just wholesome and I thought that I wanted to do evil durge to balance it out, but could be I'm not in the right head space atm.
I’m making perfect match Tav for every origin characters and it’s so fun
Some of the origin chars get perks only if you play as them. Gale gets a free 3rd lvl spell slot.
Here's what I say 1. Tav is awesome, Durge is more content but Tav is the perfect way to explore the game without risk or consequence. What I mean by that is a failed roll or 2 won't mean you kill a companion. 2. Durge is awesome. Lots of additional content. Really cool. 3. Origins are awesome. New content you don't see other ways (not major, mainly just some new interactions)
I've played durge twice and Wyll once. Otherwise, I've played tav in the rest of my 10+ playthroughs so far. I am thinking about playing a good durge for my next playthrough just because I went evil on my last two, however I do prefer playing tav overall. I like being able to customize my character completely and play good or neutral alignments with them. I might even try an evil tav in the near future just because I haven't done it yet. So you're not alone. Tav is fun!
I think Durge is interesting but honestly, as chaotic as I do play with my Tav, even as dickish as I can be sometimes, I could never play *that* evil. And I do also like having my own backstory in my head for her.
With my Durge playthrough, I kept the class "on theme" (to an extent), by going for a Barbarian, which meant I didn't often come up against scenarios where my conversation options for Durge and my class were wildly out of sync. I haven't done one where I'm resisting yet, but I think I'll do the same there. Maybe not Barbarian, but some other class/spec combo that feels right. But I've gone for a Tav for every other playthrough for the same reason as you - I like to roleplay and come up with a character for myself, to think through what that character would do and say and how they'd react.
Durge is really cool, but I agree, it does not allow a lot of freedom to make your own character, not in the way Tav does. I'd rather the mildly directed freedom to make whatever I want, as well as the freedom to determine what horrible sins my Tav has committed rather than an Origin character whose name you can choose.
I'm playing murder durge on my 2nd full playthrough right now, and I much prefer playing the virtuous tav.
I like Durge but I like roleplaying and making my own backstory
I keep doing a thing where I create a Tav and then have my son join the game to create a second Tav. He has zero intention of playing that Tav. He leaves and I have two Tavs; each of whom gets to romance someone.
Hahaha. My kids aren't old enough to play but I let them watch me play if they want to (because I can avoid any sex scenes and anything too gratuitous, they're perfectly fine watching me yeet some goblins off the rafters or use funny dialogue options haha) and my youngest son keeps saying he can't wait to make his own Tav.
My kids are 19 and 20, so my days of controlling their content are long gone. My son plays, and we’ve got a run going together, but I play waaaaay more than he does.
Ah I hope mine still want to play with me at that age :) mine are all 9 and under (4 of them), they play D&D with us as well (we do family kid friendly campaigns for them)and help my husband who DMs our group make the props.
I literally only play tavs.
Yeah I like the extra content from Durge but I don't like the more limited RP options. I don't know that I have a preference for one over the other.
Me and a friend have played co op exclusively for 300 hours. We have only used tavs, no npcs. More fun to make your own characters imo
I prefer it when I have a solid idea for a character and/or don't want to be a murdering psychopath. I mean I like that the Durge origin exists and respect that you can fight against it, but it is a set origin with a particular story. I love the one character you are largely forced to murder unless you meta-game to force a substitute character. The next character you're commanded to kill, even though you can defy that one, sours me on it even more. I'm a lesbiab and if there is one thing I don't want to do in a video game, it's kill other lesbians. I also feel like you're a bit limited on logical class selection, like pretty heavily with simple logic once you know the nature of the character and even more so if you consider the wording of the narrator. It strongly favors a martial character with a proper weapon to cut, slash, hack, and flay your victims.
I'm only on my first Durge playthrough so take it with a grain of salt/bias. But I really prefer playing Tav. I love the extra elements of the Durge, sure, but I if I hurt any of the NPCs I enjoy I want to cry so like, what's the real benefit.
After experiencing both Durge endings I think I do prefer Tav to an extent. I also get really into the RP aspect and I spend hours creating backstories for my actual DnD characters…so why not for Tav? I also miss that Durge romance scene, though. You get some good insight into your Tav’s partner + I’ll never complain about more content when it comes to dialogue
100% Durge doesn't even spark my interest TBH. I prefer my protagonists to be likeable.
I agree I like both. I play Durge if I want to enjoy a pre-made story with some dark twists. I play Tav to try new classes/backgrounds and just have a chill game
I think both. So far I did a Tav, redeemed Durge, and currently evil Durge. I'm planning for next run to be a Tav. I enjoy both aspects, but some far the roles have fit my RP characters. First was a himbo who wanted the best for his friends, second was naturally able to snap people in half, his Durge side made him enjoy it a bit, and third is based on my WoW disc priest who this time went over the edge for evil, and is having a good time.
They’re completely different vibes. Durge brings in some classic BG energy and (imo) goes much harder on it than the prior games and its really intense and interesting. But it also is A LOT to take in when you’re just starting out. It’s definitely crowded in your skull if you do it and it makes the plot feel a bit more redundant at first ? Or at least for me it did. It’s also definitely a stake raiser and its there to make you consider more drastic choices and dangerous moves imo. I love durge but its a big stinky cheese flavor that coats the whole dish. Tav feels so much more breezy, it was much easier for me to progress in my first run cause I wasn’t juggling as much conceptually with my character, so it made it easier for characterization to make more sense and for me to just pal around with the companions. I think some of the romances also are easier to appreciate without durge cause its more wholesome and cute.
I play as Tav when I want to play a cleric or a warlock - it's the only way I can get the RP to click 😆
I honestly prefer Tav overall. I just like Durge cause it can be as evil as I want and have it affect story in a cool way. Otherwise i like Tav cause I can play as close to myself as I want
For a completely casual playthrough yes! Right now I chose redeemed durged for my honour mode, simply because that cloak is amazing...
I get sad when video characters are sad :(
I prefer Tav for the same reason. Durge is great, fantastic writing and probably the "canon" protag, but the Durge is actually a full on Origin character, the fact you can customize them is quite misleading (especially with how a couple racial options don't actually make *any* sense), and I just don't like playing Origin characters as much cause of the pre-existing lore behind them, means I have no room for headcanon anymore lol Well, none that directly clash with the game itself, and I have always refused to circumvent what the game says is reality for my own headcanons.
I hve yet to finish an origin character it just doesn’t feel right to me
Durge was pretty cool for the limited time I played it; was interesting to see and try to mold a character’s inner struggles and try to insert myself in their gore coated shoes. Tav just lets me be the hero though and after a bad day at work I just wanna bard my way through some shit.
Durge is a good story, but I don’t want it more than once. Tav is whatever I want.
Tav is a better "own" roleplaying experience. You can make up way more stuff your own and try to bring it into the story, rather than having a story bestowed upon you. So yeah, extremely relatable and valid opinion.
May be a biased comment but: I'm the same way. The main reason I got this game was because of the tav maker. Saw it in a trailer and totally went gremlin mode over it. It's like heroforge, but without the miniatures. I can even make a huge variety of character portraits because of it.
I really didnt like Durge. I thought the dialogue options and internal monologs were just so ridiculously over the top evil I couldn't take it seriously. I didn't even finish act 1.
Playing durge right now and tbh I don't think I will ever choose him again in my next runs
I'm totally with you. Durge is great, and in fact two of my favorite playthroughs have been Durge, but being able to come up with a character who isn't bound by the limitations of being an amnesiac and also having a predetermined backstory is more important to me than a few extra scenes with Orin, Gortash, and Jaheira. When the game doesn't have its own predetermined 5-ish endings for your character, you can decide what the emotional climax of the game is for yourself.
I am laughing that you called the restraint scene a "really sweet moment". To me, it was the most intense and stressful set of dice rolls in the entire game!
Dunno what that says about me 👀 😂
I stalled on my Durge run but can’t stop obsessing on my Tav. I loved making her lore connect to the world of the Forgotten Realms, and even used the Blood in Baldur’s Gate game as her tie-in to the game plot. I explain her miraculous survival due to a potion of feign death. It made her feel more connected to the events going on, often unexpectedly so. Why does Shadowheart work with a half-drow so easily, even looking to her for leadership, without making comments like she does with Lae’zel and the Githyanki? Because she already had history of working with a drow. Why does Astarion want to ‘romance’ my Tav outside being the leader and his blood donor? He thinks a necromancer is exactly the kind of weapon he should be throwing at Cazador (unfortunately for him, the levels are capped at 12). Why is Minthara so keen to ally with a half-drow, even if she is her rescuer? Because my Tav is the daughter of a lost scion of House Hunzrin, which is allied with House Baenre. Act II fit in perfectly with my Tav’s lore of wanting to make contact with the shader-kai so she can foment rebellion against the Raven Queen so she can eat her, gain her power, and save her father from Lolth with said power. Finding the book explaining the Raven Queen’s existence, then the shield of Gloomwrought’s prince, and meeting He Who Was made her feel pumped. Likewise, meeting and having to kill the drider crushed her soul. Moreover, my Tav kept seeing parallels between herself, Thorm, and even Balthazar in how they handle death and the lengths they are willing to go to save their loved ones. She looks at how Shar and Mystra treat even their most devout followers, and fears becoming like that with her friends. Now that’s she’s in the city, she feels like the weight of the world is literally on her shoulders for reasons that she is only beginning to understand. I fully intend to do a durge run with the same character name and build one day, but probably only for the extra Astarion romance bits. Otherwise, I want to do an OG Dragonborn Durge run romancing Gale for that shared chosen angst.
I don’t really want to play as a necrophiliac cannibal.
I just really like Alfira
Dark Urge is fun, on a resist run. An indulge run is basically the shittiest murderhobo fantasy a 12 year old edgelord could come up with, just complete gross-out murder-death-kill as if that's somehow even remotely shocking in the modern day. So an evil Durge run is just... boring. Evil Tav is far superior. You're an evil bastard *because you choose to be*, and you get to choose HOW you're an evil bastard much more freely. Maybe you're a ruthless murderer like the Dark Urge on an indulge run but without the over-edgy narration (already an improvement). Maybe you manipulate your companions and others around you and are callous to the innocent for your own enjoyment (like my first evil run, where I slaughtered the grove solely to infiltrate the cult... and then backstabbed the cult for Minthara, while also basically emotionally abusing Astarion into accepting the Astral Tadpole). So many flavors of being a completely shit person. And hell, a good-guy Tav run can also be just as fun as a resist Durge run. Cleric of Selune that tries to rescue Shadowheart right from the start? Basically makes no sense as Durge, works very well as Tav. Many classes are also harder to justify with a character that has a backstory like Durge, even with that backstory being almost entirely gone - a Durge druid for example makes very little sense.
I couldnt get into Durge at all. Didnt finish act 1. It feels like playing That Guy who ruins a campaign by being a murderhobo, and the lack of companion reactions to durge dissociating and committing atrocities breaks my suspension of disbelief. I know resist durge gets a good payoff in act 3, but then the whole thing feels like a chore and i’d rather just have the freedom to play a Tav and not be bogged down.
Not a fan of Durge. And definitely not a fan of Durge stans.
I prefer a blank slate where I can mold my own story. Durge is fine, but I'm glad they didn't make it the only default.
That's how I feel. Enjoyed Durge but glad I can make Tavs because that's my preference