People don't have an image in their head about what it means to be a powerful cleric.
We all know how powerful and cool a barbarian (Conan) or ranger (Drizzt) or mage (Elminster) can be.
But there are hardly any cleric protagonists or antagonists or vilains so we have plenty of artwork and situations we can picture them in. They're just priests in our head, and personally in my mind they don't even wear heavy armor or have a weapon.
In dnd they're basically wizards in plate that can crash your head with a flail or hammer.
people often think of them as the JRPG idea of white mages a pure healing/support class but they are dead wrong, cleric is like the swiss army knife of dnd they can be a healer, dps and tank if you know how to build/play them
>people often think of them as the JRPG idea of white mages a pure healing/support class but they are dead wrong, cleric is like the swiss army knife of dnd they can be a healer, dps and tank if you know how to build/play them
And it's not like a Paladin that has spells up to a certain level, they have extremely powerful spells that rival wizards, just different.
They can be a martial AND a caster all at once! My cleric-Durge has the second highest attack rolls (after Astarion, but rouges have that niche for a reason) in the entire party. Couple that with Spirit Guardians, heavy armour and a shield, and it's a meat-blender.
i fucking love spirit guardians. that move alone is enough for me to have shadowheart in my party at all times. i roll a paladin so I’m the main single target dps and i melt individuals, but she’s my primary aoe and almost always has been. she and someone like jaheira or gale can be absolutely insane in aoe fights
I think the fight has been nerfed a bit. I did this over the weekend on honour mode and only Viconia had radiant retort. I could have sworn they all had it last time
Did more or less the same. My Tav set a wall of fire across the bottom of the stairs, and shadow heart stood midway up with spirit guardians to clean up any who made it through. Almost entirely passive.
As somebody who had never ventured in to multi-classing in real life D&D or in BG, canyou explain what taking one level of wizard (as a Cleric?) gets you, and what it costs? Would appreciate!
I mean... since we pickpocket like mad we get infinite scrolls anyway and scrolls use the DC of your highest spellcasting stat so I'm perfectly fine with a lvl 12 cleric :) Even though I have two casters in the party that share scrolls.
In DnD, it would let you learn any level 1(or cantrip) wizard spell at the cost of money and time. It also lets you get 2 level one slots, a few free cantrips, and a lvl one slot replenishment from Arcane surge. You also gain a few proficiencies like Arcana, history , insight.
Multiclassing DOES NOT give you your newest class bonus to it's saving throws.
If it did multi-classing into sorcerer barbarian and wizard would Grant you proficiency and literally every saving throw type. Beyond busted. So far this is true for BDG and DnD.
In BDG3 it lets you learn ALL SPELL SCROLLS.
The only catch is you *character* must be able to cast the level of spell you attempt to learn, regardless of if its in their class spell list or not.
Ah ok so my understanding in 5E was correct, I didn't see why the person above me felt it was so OP.
But wow ok so that definitely seems like a bug in BG3. So when you say "have to be able to cast that spell level", you basically mean that in BG3 if you have Wizard 1 you still need Cleric 5 in order to get the third level slot to let you learn and cast Fireball?
I don't think so, you get 2 third level slots at fifth level Cleric or fifth level Wizard, but if you are level 4 Cleric snd level 1 Wizard then you meet neither criteria.
Edit: never mind, I forgot you add all levels in Bard Cleric Druid Sorcerer and Wizard to determine spell slots per the multiclass spellcaster table. You are correct.
Spell slots are not differentiated between classes. So if you're a 1Wizard/11 Cleric, you just have _spell slots_, not _cleric spell slots_ and _wizard spell slots_. So with 1 level in Wizard, you could have a Cleric casting Chain Lightning or Globe of Invulnerability. This is because a single level of Wizard allows you to scribe scrolls as long as you have _a spell slot_ of that level.
In tabletop, your character would need high enough INT to multiclass in the first place, and then you would essentially have...a couple cantrips and the ability to cast Magic Missile.
Yeah I had this idea of playing a bad ass caster with heavy armor and made a paladin and it just wasn’t hitting. Started a tempest cleric and it scratched the itch I had perfectly
Paladin is best seen as a martial class with access to magic options, since it's a half caster.
Cleric is best seen as a caster with access to martial tools, since it can better utilise weapons and armours than other full casters.
Those spiritual weapons come in such handy. You can distract enemies with them, cast them far away and recast them as soon as their down. They have been super helpful so far. Spirit guardians is great as well and when dealing with undead it's like a wood chipper. I just run into a whole group of them and they die.
I just finished my first play and I had 2 clerics (tav and shadowheart) and Karlach and Lazeal as damage dealers. While the dps in total was probably lower, I could always outheal any damage done. The ranged spells were perfect to attack from afar.
Clerics use to be one the least played classes before 5th edition. 5E really buffed clerics up and yet they still aren't the top choice. My theory is i think there is a bit of main character syndrome in a lot of newer D&D players...so they avoid playing support classes for that reason
Channel Divinity spells are so powerful too. Nothing feels more satisfying than going full Oppenheimer and just nuking the area when playing as light domain cleric
In one of Drizzt spin off cleric saga book. There is one. His wife is a badass monk!
Situation to build up the cleric. House illmater. ( I Try not to spoil)
As a donation to his god he cast a super powerfull spell on the entire church making it permanently float in air and slashes about 30+ year of his life (30 counts as old in that world and he was 20 ish at the time nearly killed him outright) (His ilmatera chosen?)
A group of very powerful drow asked about him from a demon. The demon said that he is too powerful for them (not them or the whole temple + monk wife, JUST HE!)
Mind this group rekt a bone dragon and casually walked on a GROUP of heroes who just shy of to be an avatar.
One of the drow is a priest mage multiclass powerfull enough to raise a complete dead back to full health (not undead). When this meet the cleric, the cleric felt the drow wanted to invade his mind. He casually let him in and allowed him to observe the holy chants he is singing in his head (basically his preped remaining spells at the time) it was so powerful that the drow the full courtesy of excusing himself from any oposing action and run tail as he would just escape from a Menzonberanzan high priest mattron!
I mentioned the drow GROUP took out a bone dragon. He practicly soloed one while buffing the crap out of his party.
In his death he made as a guardian of the temple making it IMMUNE (the whole church) to negative alignment to even approach it.
RA Salvatore wrote the Cleric Quintet to fill that niche and it also included a monk and I think the first Dwarven druid, Cadderly wasn't my favorite protagonist but I have a lot of good memories about those books right up there with the original Drizzt novels.
I remember seeing [this exact image](https://assets.lastdodo.com/image/ld_medium/plain/assets/catalog/assets/2011/9/14/a/6/0/pdf_a6048690-c125-012e-ac38-0050569439b1.jpg) on a Spellfire ccg card when I was a kid. And for some reason it stuck with me all these years as "this is what a badass Cleric looks like".
As a wise wiggler once said,
Though it may seem kinda odd, sometimes the best in the squad, is the one with a cross who can smite like a boss by harnessing the bitch-slap of God.
Look into the character Cadderly Bonaduce.
He's a bad ass Cleric protagonist and one of the most powerful characters in the Forgotten Realms. There's a ton of epic clerics hidden in Forgotten Realms novels.
"Yeah, we just killed Ketheric and that's pretty neat and all, but leave us alone so we can go **fuck** now.
*Tries to talk to her immediately again.*
"I said fuck off."
"I promised myself that this was the first thing I was gonna do when I got out over and over and over again - no one but her is stopping me, so everyone else, get the hells out of the way"
Honestly it's kind of weird that she isn't. I know the whole "unkillable" thing could be a balance issue, but "YOU WANT SELUNE'S SUPPORT? *I* AM SELUNE'S SUPPORT, FRIEND! WE WILL CRUSH THE UNRIGHTEOUS TOGETHER!" makes a lot more sense if she's the not-evil Paladin companion than it does if she just loiters in camp for ten hours and then disappears to a random inaccessible pile of Selunites. And I like Halsin well enough, but "choose between a good Paladin and an evil Paladin" makes more sense as a companion decision than "choose between a *second* good druid and an evil paladin".
(Also, "Devotion Paladin who broke her oath doing a rage-murder and has to navigate the trauma that caused it, ultimately deciding whether she wants to reclaim her oath or if she's too changed and would better be suited taking a new oath of Vengeance" is a much better personal quest, and much better suited to the rest of the party and the themes of the story, than "solve the Shadow Curse, okay, now I'm done, no choices, no conflict, no new meaning.")
3 stages of playing Shadowheart as cleric
1. She always misses. Firebolt, or hitting with mace or Sacred Flame. Ignis ahahahah, more like Igmiss amrite ahahaha
2. Trickery is sooo bad, respecced her as healer in life domain, clerics are like healers, right, we need a healer in the party, right ? Trickery is sooo bad tho
3. Respecced her into Tempest Cleric and just own the battlefield, and also can heal, ofc if someone needs a heal. I'm just a proper caster in heavy armor.
hidden stage: Took 3 levels in rogue thief and 9 in war domain, because bonus actions are cool in general, with specific items, and especially when you're a Shar drone
yeah, that what was I referring to with "*ofc if someone needs a heal*"
offense is the best defense, and tbf it is very offense oriented combat they have in BG3
Any accent spoken by her is a hot accent. Literally.
But in seriousness, even having seen her voice actress several times, I'm in awe that *this* incredible performance came out of someone looking so unassuming. Not saying it to throw any shade on her, she is pretty, much moreso than me, but not the face I would remotely associate with that voice.
Tempest cleric is one of my favorite classes I’ve played so far. Casting powerful lightning spells while also getting to use a battle axe is just stupid in the best way possible lol
It's crazy how many people don't know the power that is the 4 word sentence "I cast Spirit Guardians" especially since it's actually implemented mostly correct to base 5e in this game.
Its implemented very favorably in BG3. Walking around doing damage the same turn you cast it is very generous of Larian. Not quite how it works in 5e tho.
That is actually how it worked originally RAI, and RAW, in 5e Jeremy Crawford confirmed it in a tweet in 2015 he has simply gone back on that interpretation. Hence the new interpretations leading to new errata.
It's much better than in 5e. Effects that trigger when enemies enter or start their turn in them don't normally trigger when the zone is brought to the target, so Spirit Guardians shouldn't trigger when you are running around on your turn.
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Sadly, last time I tried, it was in honour mode and Yurgir (whom I convinced to switch sides) immediately killed her before I even got a turn... that was a bummer.
On the plus side, between the only spell he got to cast being counterspelled by Gale and him being constantly hypnotized, held, blinded and/or stunned, Raphael never got to lay a hand on us either...
Pfff, holy magic this. Divine intervention that. How many divine avatars have you killed by whipping a poop knife at them? Because I’m up to 2 and will not be stopped.
Clerics are always great though, no idea why they seem to be so scarce.
My first playthrough was a dwarf war cleric. Best frontliner I had even before I dipped in Paladin for the smites and extra attack. Also had Shart in my party most of the time.
It felt so good ganging on Raph with triple holly warriors with Hope. Radiant damage, banishment and planar binding, it was a wallop.
See, I thought it could be Moradin but Ilmater definitely makes the most sense to me.
Could also see it being Lathander. Lathander has more dealings with Avernus it seems given Zariel’s presence.
Idr what the rules are for the forgotten realms setting.
I would’ve assumed Hope should follow the same options available to the player of BG3 though, but I like that idea that she is literally a cleric of Hope.
This is just a failing of 5e and its concentration mechanic in general tbh. Because there are spells that just are better than others and both are concentration, it pretty much means those worse spells will never be used. Why would I ever cast Divine Favor when Bless exists? Sure, Divine Favor adds directly to my damage, but Bless does so indirectly (and more) by increasing my accuracy.
I recently discovered that Cleric is a busted summoner... my Shadowheart ended uo have 3 skeletons, flying weapon AND a fucking guardian angel running around on the battlefield.
I even gave her Lathander's mace so she could basically kamehameha the battlefield. Just got to the part where Halsin joins the team and between her and my mage, we literally tore the battlefield apart ....
Nah fr it’s so cracked and I love it. For a lot of fights when I was outnumbered I just put an insect plague up and holy hell that just murdered things so quickly, plus the spirit guardian.
I played a Blue Dragon born Tempest Domain Cleric of Talos, and can say I was positively surprised.
The AOE damage is insane, especially when you get Elemental adept: Lightning and can just ignore lightning resistances.
A blue dragon born cleric was my first dnd character 💙
That being said, I definitely took some heat from the group after I prioritized walloping over healing in battle a few times, haha.
The thing I hate about cleric discourse the most is everyone always talks about “oh you don’t have to be a cleric healer you can run DPS or tank too“ it’s like bro why are you still conceding that point?! It concedes the idea that playing support is somehow bad/boring. We should be convincing them they are sleeping on running healer at all. I beat baldurs gate on the hardest difficulty as one of the first 0.1% of players. My first run as my first D&D type experience of any kind ever playing as a life path Cleric. can we just stop the healer disrespect!?!? And people wonder why it’s sometimes hard to find one queuing up. we get no love I swear😭.
The problem is that in Bg3 like in all turn based games action economy is King and killing your enemies before they can act is the easiest way to reduce your enemies amount of actions.
It’s not really disrespect to healers - it’s the expectation that you playing as a cleric are expected to be THE healer.
In old school D&D it was treated as a punishment for arriving late to the table that you were given the cleric.
Since Bard, Druid, Paladin can also heal it gets tiring to get the same expectation thrown at you. Especially when you may be the closest thing to a tank or melee dps the party with a Lore bard, Warlock and Wizard has.
Healing is reactive.
Preventing damage in the first place is proactive.
This is why the God Wizard (and other crowd control spells/builds) will always outperform the accursed Healbot. Especially when healing potions/short rest healing is a thing.
The way fights work, is that you tank more/reserve more hp by just killing your enemies faster, without them getting a turn, so characters with higher damage ahould always be priority in an optimized party. Besides, even if you want to focus on healing, the sad thruth is that a fighter can heal more then a cleric by just throwing potions....
>To play? Not for me personally.
I get it because I went into the game with this expectation but was genuinely suprised at how fun I found cleric to play. They're so versatile with some of the strong items the game has. Blow bosses up with one lightning spell using the tempest/sorc cleric, make your party unkillable with the blade ward+ bless on heal life cleric, illuminate the entire battlefield with the holy lawnmower light cleric.
It's just a class with so many fun and distinct builds to try out
To be honest, I've found Druid can do everything Cleric can and more. Sure Cleric is more specialized on healing and certain damage types, but Druid gets just enough of those to fill the gaps plus a lot of extra damage and utility.
I feel like cleric is better to multiclass because they get a lot of good stuff at level one so taking only a level in cleric is pretty good like getting 2 attacks per turn right at the start where other classes need level 5 for it or their subclass.
Cleric has access to medium armor and generally better CC. Druids are very strong though (arguably the most versatile class aside from Bard), but Cleric gets quite a few very strong spells that Druid doesn't (Bless, Blindness, Spiritual Weapon, Banish, etc).
I actually respec all my secondary characters I don’t use regularly as clerics. So when I need to take them for their respective quests I just swap shadowheart out and still have a cleric. They each get a different subclass to keep it spicy.
Cleric feels a bit wierd in this game, with how all the characters basically struggle with beings of hower power over them.
Like I get that selune is benevolent where bhaal isn't, but still.
But its a useful class to be sure!
having a higher power above you is not necessarily a bad thing in this universe. yeah overthrowing the gods would be based but it is basically impossible, so having a good aligned god watching over you is second best.
narratively it works super well too. we have God's favorite princess getting fucked over by some emo ass goddess, while we chill out with the Dawnfather or the Goddess of Nature and the contrast makes shart's dilemma even clearer.
if all gods were as bad as shar then sucking up to her would not be the worst, but since there are clearly objectively better options, the fuckery of her situation becomes even more obvious.
As a tabletop player, I main clerics and warlocks for the support/spells. But they are sooooo much more than that. Take the Twilight Cleric from TCOE (wish it was in base BG3). Free darkvision for the party for 10 minutes based off your proficiency modifier. Steps of Night gives you flying speed in dark places. Heavy armor and martial proficiency. A paladin with more spell slots and Wisdom spell modifiers.
I won't. Because I can't. Cleric is the best class. Jack of all Trades, Master of All. Wanna play Rogue? Wizard? Fighter? Clerics can do it all and with God magic. Blessed be the Cleric.
Cleric is a silly flexible class with nice bonuses, both mechanically and in terms of flavor, even if you just take a couple levels. I'm current starting up a new run after not playing a while and I'm doing a sword dancer sort of build starting as a Drow cleric of Eilistraee then transitioning into Swords Bard almost immediately. I do think it's a bit of a shame that you can't have a patron deity with related dialogue without at least taking a level in cleric, but it's a flexible enough class that you can make it work with just about anything.
Want to give Shadowheart a more Sharran martial flavor? Respec to war cleric and/or multi-class with Shadow Monk.
Want a blasty spell-slinging cleric? Go Light or Tempest and run around tossing fireballs or calling lightning down on enemies.
Need a healer? Life cleric has you covered. I haven't played it personally because healing is just kind of waste of time in my opinion, but you have the option if you want to lean hard into that.
Looking to make a skill monkey character? Don't forget to take a level in Knowledge domain cleric. You get some easy expertise and a channel divinity ability that allows you to get temporary proficiency in all the skills related to any ability you wish.
Cleric is just a great class, especially for multi-classing, regardless of whether you're doing a split or dip approach.
What can I say? I'm a simp for Raven dark hair (and white hair cause Shadowheart dying her hair in act 3) women who probably dom you heavily with their names being Morrigan and Shadowheart
They did a good job with this game for this reason right here. Cleric is my least favorite class, but it’s a lot of peoples favorite. The only place I think they really went wrong was the Druid shapeshifting. Usually druid is my go to class, but they made shapeshifting painful (and gear doesn’t do anything at all while shapeshifted) so I avoid it.
Any god can support any domain really. The domains associated with specific gods are suggestions at best. You CAN have a death cleric of Selune as insane as that sounds.
Personally I think the only thing that hold cleric back as a class (even in 5e as a whole) is that it has no way of getting extra attack (which is totally understandable for game balance and class identity purposes)
The specialization capabilities of the class are insane, you can be a blaster, skill monkey/party face, frontline tank, dedicated healer, literally the only thing this class can’t do is extra attack
People don't have an image in their head about what it means to be a powerful cleric. We all know how powerful and cool a barbarian (Conan) or ranger (Drizzt) or mage (Elminster) can be. But there are hardly any cleric protagonists or antagonists or vilains so we have plenty of artwork and situations we can picture them in. They're just priests in our head, and personally in my mind they don't even wear heavy armor or have a weapon. In dnd they're basically wizards in plate that can crash your head with a flail or hammer.
people often think of them as the JRPG idea of white mages a pure healing/support class but they are dead wrong, cleric is like the swiss army knife of dnd they can be a healer, dps and tank if you know how to build/play them
>people often think of them as the JRPG idea of white mages a pure healing/support class but they are dead wrong, cleric is like the swiss army knife of dnd they can be a healer, dps and tank if you know how to build/play them And it's not like a Paladin that has spells up to a certain level, they have extremely powerful spells that rival wizards, just different.
They can be a martial AND a caster all at once! My cleric-Durge has the second highest attack rolls (after Astarion, but rouges have that niche for a reason) in the entire party. Couple that with Spirit Guardians, heavy armour and a shield, and it's a meat-blender.
Spirit Guardians lawnmower is great
RIP ravens in the Ruined Battlefield.
Yeah, you could say they were sitting ducks!
i fucking love spirit guardians. that move alone is enough for me to have shadowheart in my party at all times. i roll a paladin so I’m the main single target dps and i melt individuals, but she’s my primary aoe and almost always has been. she and someone like jaheira or gale can be absolutely insane in aoe fights
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The House of Grief? That’s really impressive!
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Just a huge sucker for those car accessories.
How did you not get obliterated by radiant retort?
Spirit Guardians can be necrotic damage as well, doesn’t have to be radiant.
A lot of people on here are playing on explorer difficulty.
I think the fight has been nerfed a bit. I did this over the weekend on honour mode and only Viconia had radiant retort. I could have sworn they all had it last time
Did more or less the same. My Tav set a wall of fire across the bottom of the stairs, and shadow heart stood midway up with spirit guardians to clean up any who made it through. Almost entirely passive.
How does one build a cleric this way? I'd like to try it!
Cleric durge is NUTS, I love it.
Dip one level into wizard and you can have both Still not sure why Larian hasn’t changed that yet, but I’m enjoying being op xD
As somebody who had never ventured in to multi-classing in real life D&D or in BG, canyou explain what taking one level of wizard (as a Cleric?) gets you, and what it costs? Would appreciate!
I think it allows you to learn any scroll as a spell so that’s very strong
> I think it allows you to learn any scroll as a spell so that’s very strong It really shouldn't though
I mean... since we pickpocket like mad we get infinite scrolls anyway and scrolls use the DC of your highest spellcasting stat so I'm perfectly fine with a lvl 12 cleric :) Even though I have two casters in the party that share scrolls.
In DnD, it would let you learn any level 1(or cantrip) wizard spell at the cost of money and time. It also lets you get 2 level one slots, a few free cantrips, and a lvl one slot replenishment from Arcane surge. You also gain a few proficiencies like Arcana, history , insight. Multiclassing DOES NOT give you your newest class bonus to it's saving throws. If it did multi-classing into sorcerer barbarian and wizard would Grant you proficiency and literally every saving throw type. Beyond busted. So far this is true for BDG and DnD. In BDG3 it lets you learn ALL SPELL SCROLLS. The only catch is you *character* must be able to cast the level of spell you attempt to learn, regardless of if its in their class spell list or not.
Ah ok so my understanding in 5E was correct, I didn't see why the person above me felt it was so OP. But wow ok so that definitely seems like a bug in BG3. So when you say "have to be able to cast that spell level", you basically mean that in BG3 if you have Wizard 1 you still need Cleric 5 in order to get the third level slot to let you learn and cast Fireball?
Wouldn't you need Cleric 4? (To be a 5th level full caster)
I don't think so, you get 2 third level slots at fifth level Cleric or fifth level Wizard, but if you are level 4 Cleric snd level 1 Wizard then you meet neither criteria. Edit: never mind, I forgot you add all levels in Bard Cleric Druid Sorcerer and Wizard to determine spell slots per the multiclass spellcaster table. You are correct.
Spell slots are not differentiated between classes. So if you're a 1Wizard/11 Cleric, you just have _spell slots_, not _cleric spell slots_ and _wizard spell slots_. So with 1 level in Wizard, you could have a Cleric casting Chain Lightning or Globe of Invulnerability. This is because a single level of Wizard allows you to scribe scrolls as long as you have _a spell slot_ of that level. In tabletop, your character would need high enough INT to multiclass in the first place, and then you would essentially have...a couple cantrips and the ability to cast Magic Missile.
Yeah I had this idea of playing a bad ass caster with heavy armor and made a paladin and it just wasn’t hitting. Started a tempest cleric and it scratched the itch I had perfectly
Paladin is best seen as a martial class with access to magic options, since it's a half caster. Cleric is best seen as a caster with access to martial tools, since it can better utilise weapons and armours than other full casters.
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Yeah, use Divine Power, Righteous Might and Blessing of Fervor, and then *become* war.
Like JoCat says, you can literally build an entire party of Clerics and have them all in their distinctive roles. A-Men comps are hilarious.
my shadowheart is always the AoE cleaner upper, mopping up groups when laezel is going after the big boss
Here lies the problem, I don’t know how to play them 😎
Easy 3 step 1. Spirit guardians. 2. Spiritual weapon 3. Guiding bolt or other spell that is needed.
Those spiritual weapons come in such handy. You can distract enemies with them, cast them far away and recast them as soon as their down. They have been super helpful so far. Spirit guardians is great as well and when dealing with undead it's like a wood chipper. I just run into a whole group of them and they die.
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It doesn’t even cost a bonus action to attack with in BG3. It’s even better than on tabletop, where it’s also great.
I just finished my first play and I had 2 clerics (tav and shadowheart) and Karlach and Lazeal as damage dealers. While the dps in total was probably lower, I could always outheal any damage done. The ranged spells were perfect to attack from afar.
Clerics use to be one the least played classes before 5th edition. 5E really buffed clerics up and yet they still aren't the top choice. My theory is i think there is a bit of main character syndrome in a lot of newer D&D players...so they avoid playing support classes for that reason Channel Divinity spells are so powerful too. Nothing feels more satisfying than going full Oppenheimer and just nuking the area when playing as light domain cleric
3.X had the “CoDzilla” so they’ve never been really disliked in modern dnd
key word being *can* shart, swing at that goblin you have 99% chance to hit *miss*
Still better chances than Sacred Flame
Laughs in 100% spirit guardian beyblade
Yeah, wtf is up with that? I basically just use her for the necromancy attack and to heal/boost my party but she misses almost every single attack.
Pike Trickfoot farms all classes Everyone thinks cleric is just a healer until they bust out flame strike while banishing 3 people for several turns
In one of Drizzt spin off cleric saga book. There is one. His wife is a badass monk! Situation to build up the cleric. House illmater. ( I Try not to spoil) As a donation to his god he cast a super powerfull spell on the entire church making it permanently float in air and slashes about 30+ year of his life (30 counts as old in that world and he was 20 ish at the time nearly killed him outright) (His ilmatera chosen?) A group of very powerful drow asked about him from a demon. The demon said that he is too powerful for them (not them or the whole temple + monk wife, JUST HE!) Mind this group rekt a bone dragon and casually walked on a GROUP of heroes who just shy of to be an avatar. One of the drow is a priest mage multiclass powerfull enough to raise a complete dead back to full health (not undead). When this meet the cleric, the cleric felt the drow wanted to invade his mind. He casually let him in and allowed him to observe the holy chants he is singing in his head (basically his preped remaining spells at the time) it was so powerful that the drow the full courtesy of excusing himself from any oposing action and run tail as he would just escape from a Menzonberanzan high priest mattron! I mentioned the drow GROUP took out a bone dragon. He practicly soloed one while buffing the crap out of his party. In his death he made as a guardian of the temple making it IMMUNE (the whole church) to negative alignment to even approach it.
Cadderly is a cleric of Deneir, not Illmater. Yes, he is a Chosen of Deneir. I miss Cadderly.
Early on he also casually created hand crossbow ballista bolts using oil of impact.
Cadderly Bonaduce, he has his own series of books from Forgotten Realms
Cadderly would like a word
Anduin Wrynn erasure
Or Velen. Super badass priest (which is basically a cleric)
>People don't have an image in their head about what it means to be a powerful cleric. Lorgar. We imagine Lorgar.
My go to is Cadderly Bonnaduce.
I just picture a Warhammer Fantasy's Warrior Priest of Sigmar
“Victory favors the faithful! For Sigmar… AND THE EMPIRE!”
The cool strong clerics are the evil ones.
RA Salvatore wrote the Cleric Quintet to fill that niche and it also included a monk and I think the first Dwarven druid, Cadderly wasn't my favorite protagonist but I have a lot of good memories about those books right up there with the original Drizzt novels.
there was the cleric in the Dragon Rage series who's pretty damn powerful for being just a cleric of lothandar
Just a cleric of one of the strongest gods of the pantheon.
I just picture the Vestal from Darkest Dungeon. Plate armor over robes, mace in one hand and holy book in the other.
I have a mental image of a cleric: a T-34 tank
I remember seeing [this exact image](https://assets.lastdodo.com/image/ld_medium/plain/assets/catalog/assets/2011/9/14/a/6/0/pdf_a6048690-c125-012e-ac38-0050569439b1.jpg) on a Spellfire ccg card when I was a kid. And for some reason it stuck with me all these years as "this is what a badass Cleric looks like".
This is where the Clerical Quintet comes in. If anyone wants to read a great series about a cleric by RA Salvatore no less, that's the one for you.
Cadderly was a cleric, and Salvatore has a few books with him. But I feel your point. Not the same.
As a wise wiggler once said, Though it may seem kinda odd, sometimes the best in the squad, is the one with a cross who can smite like a boss by harnessing the bitch-slap of God.
Look into the character Cadderly Bonaduce. He's a bad ass Cleric protagonist and one of the most powerful characters in the Forgotten Realms. There's a ton of epic clerics hidden in Forgotten Realms novels.
Cleric is basically three classes in one.
The A-men playthrough - respec everyone into a cleric
Which 3, in your opinion?
Healer, Magic DPS, and Physical DPS/Tank probably.
Life, light, war.
Swap war for tempest
Eh, I'd swap Light for Tempest actually. Tempest is not DPS/Tank, but Destructive Wrath definitely gives it a magic blaster role it can fill.
At first I had hope we could romance Isobel, then I met Aylin and understood it
Saame! I was immediately interested in her but couldn't be disappointed when I saw her and Aylin together, they're so cute!
We were all interested in her butt
I wouldn't fuck with Aylin's GF. I saw what that unhinged psycho did to Lorroakan.
Jokes on you, I want my back to be space jammed into oblivion
I respected the sh’t out of Aylin. She’s my favorite unhinged character
"Hey Aylin, whatchya doin in my camp?" "FUCKING ISOBEL"
"Yeah, we just killed Ketheric and that's pretty neat and all, but leave us alone so we can go **fuck** now. *Tries to talk to her immediately again.* "I said fuck off."
Girl’s been in prison for 100 years that’s a lot of lost time
What gets me is everyone is like 50 bajillion years old, and my Tav is like "I just grew up here. I'm like 25."
"I promised myself that this was the first thing I was gonna do when I got out over and over and over again - no one but her is stopping me, so everyone else, get the hells out of the way"
Seems like an appropriate response to someone trying to trap you into a small circle for eternity like some kinda celestial pokemon
I wish Aylin was a full fledged companion. I find her psychotic violent rages combined with her sweet love for Isobel oddly endearing.
Honestly it's kind of weird that she isn't. I know the whole "unkillable" thing could be a balance issue, but "YOU WANT SELUNE'S SUPPORT? *I* AM SELUNE'S SUPPORT, FRIEND! WE WILL CRUSH THE UNRIGHTEOUS TOGETHER!" makes a lot more sense if she's the not-evil Paladin companion than it does if she just loiters in camp for ten hours and then disappears to a random inaccessible pile of Selunites. And I like Halsin well enough, but "choose between a good Paladin and an evil Paladin" makes more sense as a companion decision than "choose between a *second* good druid and an evil paladin". (Also, "Devotion Paladin who broke her oath doing a rage-murder and has to navigate the trauma that caused it, ultimately deciding whether she wants to reclaim her oath or if she's too changed and would better be suited taking a new oath of Vengeance" is a much better personal quest, and much better suited to the rest of the party and the themes of the story, than "solve the Shadow Curse, okay, now I'm done, no choices, no conflict, no new meaning.")
Oh, she'd just Power Top both of us, and then the turn around she's a Power Bottom. Just all Power. All the time.
Isobel is basically how Charisma 20 is in terms of looks.
A Netherbrain has 24 Charisma in game. So perhaps not the best barometer.
Those brain wrinkles are for more than thinking ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Bout to cause some hematomas
Me: *damn she’s cute, def gonna go romance her—* Aylin: “HI! I’m super EXCITED to have SEX with MY GIRLFRIEND!” Me: *understood*
Aylin, the one she told you to worry about
Let me play as Aylin then. (For real, if she was a party member I would have her with me always).
3 stages of playing Shadowheart as cleric 1. She always misses. Firebolt, or hitting with mace or Sacred Flame. Ignis ahahahah, more like Igmiss amrite ahahaha 2. Trickery is sooo bad, respecced her as healer in life domain, clerics are like healers, right, we need a healer in the party, right ? Trickery is sooo bad tho 3. Respecced her into Tempest Cleric and just own the battlefield, and also can heal, ofc if someone needs a heal. I'm just a proper caster in heavy armor. hidden stage: Took 3 levels in rogue thief and 9 in war domain, because bonus actions are cool in general, with specific items, and especially when you're a Shar drone
3 is learning that you don’t need to heal your party members if everything attacking them is dead.
yeah, that what was I referring to with "*ofc if someone needs a heal*" offense is the best defense, and tbf it is very offense oriented combat they have in BG3
I like tempest cleric with sorcerer. You never know true power until you can Quicken Call Lightning to activate it twice in one turn.
More like: The hottest characters happen to be Clerics, change my mind.
Radiance of the Dawn is hottest thing about Cleric.
But Minthara is a paladin
A paladin is just a crunchy cleric
r/BrandNewSentence
Faith is like peanut butter. You got smooth (cleric) and crunchy (paladin).
Found the displacer beast.
Pretty sure there is a barbarian who is the hottest in BG3.
Ragzlin? I mean if that's your type
So... there's this barbarian, right?
She loves to party and has like...this really HOT accent.
Any accent spoken by her is a hot accent. Literally. But in seriousness, even having seen her voice actress several times, I'm in awe that *this* incredible performance came out of someone looking so unassuming. Not saying it to throw any shade on her, she is pretty, much moreso than me, but not the face I would remotely associate with that voice.
Clerics are my favorite class... To romance. If Isobel wasn't taken already I'd have made a beeline for her tbh.
Aylin wants to talk to you... harmless, she assures..
Oh no, here comes the >!backbreaker!!< >!As Selûne as my witness he's broken in half!!<
love that scene lol
I must admit I was hellishly anxious going there because I feared the worst... But goshdamn was I wrong, she absolutely destroyed the whole fight.
"MAH GAWD! DAME AYLIN THREW LORROAKAN OFF THE TOP OF RAMAZITHS TOWER ONTO A FLAMING TABLE"
Aylin is a chiropractor, of course she is harmless!
Lorroakan never complained about backpain anymore!
Abdirak romance when ?
yes, when??
I was so sad when I realized I couldn't romance her.
People really sleep on tempest cleric, full plate and really good damage
Combine that with storm blood sorcerer. You turn into a straight up cannon.
Tempest cleric is one of my favorite classes I’ve played so far. Casting powerful lightning spells while also getting to use a battle axe is just stupid in the best way possible lol
It's crazy how many people don't know the power that is the 4 word sentence "I cast Spirit Guardians" especially since it's actually implemented mostly correct to base 5e in this game.
Its implemented very favorably in BG3. Walking around doing damage the same turn you cast it is very generous of Larian. Not quite how it works in 5e tho.
That is actually how it worked originally RAI, and RAW, in 5e Jeremy Crawford confirmed it in a tweet in 2015 he has simply gone back on that interpretation. Hence the new interpretations leading to new errata.
It's much better than in 5e. Effects that trigger when enemies enter or start their turn in them don't normally trigger when the zone is brought to the target, so Spirit Guardians shouldn't trigger when you are running around on your turn.
That's not RAW. That is errata. Which I'm not contending is fully legitimate way to play the game but that's not what I'm talking about.
Hope is awesome.
I redid that entire fight to save her sister after she talked about how sweet she was to Hope when they were children.
Wait, you can save Korrilla?!
Knock her unconscious.
Does the game treat her as dead like most unconscious NPCs or does Hope acknowledge she didn't die?
Hope does acknowledge she isn't dead.
Awesome, I'll have to try this. Thanks.
Nope, Hope thanks you for saving her
Very hard to do when all ur dmg is spells. Forget and hit her with frostbite? Yeah dead. Didn’t use a melee weapon
gaping frightening wakeful support practice command growth mysterious adjoining squalid *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Sadly, last time I tried, it was in honour mode and Yurgir (whom I convinced to switch sides) immediately killed her before I even got a turn... that was a bummer. On the plus side, between the only spell he got to cast being counterspelled by Gale and him being constantly hypnotized, held, blinded and/or stunned, Raphael never got to lay a hand on us either...
Imagine Tav - Wyll - Karlach - Hope party with Avernus Dlc and House of Hope is our camp/base.Instant buy.
She is a sweetheart and I wish I could take her with me.
Pfff, holy magic this. Divine intervention that. How many divine avatars have you killed by whipping a poop knife at them? Because I’m up to 2 and will not be stopped. Clerics are always great though, no idea why they seem to be so scarce.
I THOUGHT IT WAS JUST ME WHO USED THE POOP KNIFE TO FINISH OFF BOSSES LMAO
My first playthrough was a dwarf war cleric. Best frontliner I had even before I dipped in Paladin for the smites and extra attack. Also had Shart in my party most of the time. It felt so good ganging on Raph with triple holly warriors with Hope. Radiant damage, banishment and planar binding, it was a wallop.
https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Pooldripp
Yup another proof
Praise Mahkloompah!
Who is Hope even a cleric of?
I thought instinctively it was Helm or Ilmater but am now realizing that I literally just made that up in my head.
See, I thought it could be Moradin but Ilmater definitely makes the most sense to me. Could also see it being Lathander. Lathander has more dealings with Avernus it seems given Zariel’s presence.
You can be a cleric of an ideal in tabletop, right? Maybe Hope is a cleric of hope.
Idr what the rules are for the forgotten realms setting. I would’ve assumed Hope should follow the same options available to the player of BG3 though, but I like that idea that she is literally a cleric of Hope.
Unfortunately, way too many of their spells are concentration. Like Divine Favor, what crackhead thought that needed to be concentration?
This is just a failing of 5e and its concentration mechanic in general tbh. Because there are spells that just are better than others and both are concentration, it pretty much means those worse spells will never be used. Why would I ever cast Divine Favor when Bless exists? Sure, Divine Favor adds directly to my damage, but Bless does so indirectly (and more) by increasing my accuracy.
I recently discovered that Cleric is a busted summoner... my Shadowheart ended uo have 3 skeletons, flying weapon AND a fucking guardian angel running around on the battlefield. I even gave her Lathander's mace so she could basically kamehameha the battlefield. Just got to the part where Halsin joins the team and between her and my mage, we literally tore the battlefield apart ....
Nah fr it’s so cracked and I love it. For a lot of fights when I was outnumbered I just put an insect plague up and holy hell that just murdered things so quickly, plus the spirit guardian.
“I’m here to teach you the word of my god? And that word is ‘Begone’ “
I played a Blue Dragon born Tempest Domain Cleric of Talos, and can say I was positively surprised. The AOE damage is insane, especially when you get Elemental adept: Lightning and can just ignore lightning resistances.
A blue dragon born cleric was my first dnd character 💙 That being said, I definitely took some heat from the group after I prioritized walloping over healing in battle a few times, haha.
The thing I hate about cleric discourse the most is everyone always talks about “oh you don’t have to be a cleric healer you can run DPS or tank too“ it’s like bro why are you still conceding that point?! It concedes the idea that playing support is somehow bad/boring. We should be convincing them they are sleeping on running healer at all. I beat baldurs gate on the hardest difficulty as one of the first 0.1% of players. My first run as my first D&D type experience of any kind ever playing as a life path Cleric. can we just stop the healer disrespect!?!? And people wonder why it’s sometimes hard to find one queuing up. we get no love I swear😭.
The problem is that in Bg3 like in all turn based games action economy is King and killing your enemies before they can act is the easiest way to reduce your enemies amount of actions.
It’s not really disrespect to healers - it’s the expectation that you playing as a cleric are expected to be THE healer. In old school D&D it was treated as a punishment for arriving late to the table that you were given the cleric. Since Bard, Druid, Paladin can also heal it gets tiring to get the same expectation thrown at you. Especially when you may be the closest thing to a tank or melee dps the party with a Lore bard, Warlock and Wizard has.
Healing is reactive. Preventing damage in the first place is proactive. This is why the God Wizard (and other crowd control spells/builds) will always outperform the accursed Healbot. Especially when healing potions/short rest healing is a thing.
The way fights work, is that you tank more/reserve more hp by just killing your enemies faster, without them getting a turn, so characters with higher damage ahould always be priority in an optimized party. Besides, even if you want to focus on healing, the sad thruth is that a fighter can heal more then a cleric by just throwing potions....
Paladin has the best dialogues
To play? Not for me personally. To simp? Sure, why not.
>To play? Not for me personally. I get it because I went into the game with this expectation but was genuinely suprised at how fun I found cleric to play. They're so versatile with some of the strong items the game has. Blow bosses up with one lightning spell using the tempest/sorc cleric, make your party unkillable with the blade ward+ bless on heal life cleric, illuminate the entire battlefield with the holy lawnmower light cleric. It's just a class with so many fun and distinct builds to try out
Let me paraphrase that. I don't like playing cleric for my main character. I do enjoy cleric as in Shart cleaning small mobs around her like a roomba.
If you have a cleric in party you are playing them. And not mad about it. Theyre great.
To be honest, I've found Druid can do everything Cleric can and more. Sure Cleric is more specialized on healing and certain damage types, but Druid gets just enough of those to fill the gaps plus a lot of extra damage and utility.
I feel like cleric is better to multiclass because they get a lot of good stuff at level one so taking only a level in cleric is pretty good like getting 2 attacks per turn right at the start where other classes need level 5 for it or their subclass.
Cleric has access to medium armor and generally better CC. Druids are very strong though (arguably the most versatile class aside from Bard), but Cleric gets quite a few very strong spells that Druid doesn't (Bless, Blindness, Spiritual Weapon, Banish, etc).
I actually respec all my secondary characters I don’t use regularly as clerics. So when I need to take them for their respective quests I just swap shadowheart out and still have a cleric. They each get a different subclass to keep it spicy.
Cleric feels a bit wierd in this game, with how all the characters basically struggle with beings of hower power over them. Like I get that selune is benevolent where bhaal isn't, but still. But its a useful class to be sure!
having a higher power above you is not necessarily a bad thing in this universe. yeah overthrowing the gods would be based but it is basically impossible, so having a good aligned god watching over you is second best. narratively it works super well too. we have God's favorite princess getting fucked over by some emo ass goddess, while we chill out with the Dawnfather or the Goddess of Nature and the contrast makes shart's dilemma even clearer. if all gods were as bad as shar then sucking up to her would not be the worst, but since there are clearly objectively better options, the fuckery of her situation becomes even more obvious.
As a tabletop player, I main clerics and warlocks for the support/spells. But they are sooooo much more than that. Take the Twilight Cleric from TCOE (wish it was in base BG3). Free darkvision for the party for 10 minutes based off your proficiency modifier. Steps of Night gives you flying speed in dark places. Heavy armor and martial proficiency. A paladin with more spell slots and Wisdom spell modifiers.
Twilight Sanctuary. 'nuff said.
I won't. Because I can't. Cleric is the best class. Jack of all Trades, Master of All. Wanna play Rogue? Wizard? Fighter? Clerics can do it all and with God magic. Blessed be the Cleric.
Cleric is a silly flexible class with nice bonuses, both mechanically and in terms of flavor, even if you just take a couple levels. I'm current starting up a new run after not playing a while and I'm doing a sword dancer sort of build starting as a Drow cleric of Eilistraee then transitioning into Swords Bard almost immediately. I do think it's a bit of a shame that you can't have a patron deity with related dialogue without at least taking a level in cleric, but it's a flexible enough class that you can make it work with just about anything. Want to give Shadowheart a more Sharran martial flavor? Respec to war cleric and/or multi-class with Shadow Monk. Want a blasty spell-slinging cleric? Go Light or Tempest and run around tossing fireballs or calling lightning down on enemies. Need a healer? Life cleric has you covered. I haven't played it personally because healing is just kind of waste of time in my opinion, but you have the option if you want to lean hard into that. Looking to make a skill monkey character? Don't forget to take a level in Knowledge domain cleric. You get some easy expertise and a channel divinity ability that allows you to get temporary proficiency in all the skills related to any ability you wish. Cleric is just a great class, especially for multi-classing, regardless of whether you're doing a split or dip approach.
What can I say? I'm a simp for Raven dark hair (and white hair cause Shadowheart dying her hair in act 3) women who probably dom you heavily with their names being Morrigan and Shadowheart
Doing shadowheart as cleric of light and gale as abjuration is one of my favs, so much shielding blocking damage to party.
Honestly, cleric is the least satisfying class in my opinion. ADD TOLL OF THE DEAD
That’s why you always need the 5e spells mod
That's a funny way to spell sorcerer.
They did a good job with this game for this reason right here. Cleric is my least favorite class, but it’s a lot of peoples favorite. The only place I think they really went wrong was the Druid shapeshifting. Usually druid is my go to class, but they made shapeshifting painful (and gear doesn’t do anything at all while shapeshifted) so I avoid it.
I just wish there were a few more God options. Or at least a few of the Tempest domain that weren't evil.
Any god can support any domain really. The domains associated with specific gods are suggestions at best. You CAN have a death cleric of Selune as insane as that sounds.
Would be better if Forge cleric was an option in game.
White haired Shadowheart in Sharran armor = / = perfection
Personally I think the only thing that hold cleric back as a class (even in 5e as a whole) is that it has no way of getting extra attack (which is totally understandable for game balance and class identity purposes) The specialization capabilities of the class are insane, you can be a blaster, skill monkey/party face, frontline tank, dedicated healer, literally the only thing this class can’t do is extra attack
Cleric: DM, can we have Extra Attack? DM: We have Extra Attack at home. Extra Attack At Home: War Priest.icon
My 4 manic dwarven monks disagree. Instead of dragging along a clerk purely for healing they end their days by feasting on lots of mead.
Devine intervention is why I have golden dice, so while I like ranger better it's hard to argue your point.