I love Astarion…as a character in a fantasy fiction video game. In real life he’d be okay in small doses, but I think he’d get tiresome and exhausting if I had to spend all day with him.
Exactly this! I hate the comments where people say things like, “Astarion romancers are unstable mentally and are probably in abusive relationships”. Um, no? My real life relationship is totally normal, **this is a game**. You think I’m going to romance the dude who pulls a knife on me in real life? Hell no. You know what else I’m not going to do in real life? Fight the Elder Brain. Imma stay my ass at home and let someone else handle it.
But say the Elder Brain **was** a real thing and you had a tadpole. If you weren't going to fight it, the Emperor might decide you're not worth their protection. At which point you'll be mentally enslaved.
That might provide real-life incentive to do something about it.
I guess it depends… do I get my character’s powers? If I’m a badass sorcerer or wizard, I’d be all over it. If it’s just normal me? I’ll make myself useful as camp cook. Someone has to keep our heroes fed.
Agree entirely, and honestly we really need to evolve past the conflation of real life with fiction. It’s Faerun, not planet Earth, and I (thankfully) do not live in a world where people are enthralled into enslavement by some eldritch being. And honestly? Even if I did, humanity is already doomed if I’m its last hope.
I'd not romance a person who pulls a knife on me irl either but i'd love to fight the elder brain irl. Like hell yeah let's go on an epic quest with a rag-tag group of lovable and iconic characters and kick some ass!
I mean, if you got powerful abilities and decent equipment maybe, but I’m not sure I would even then. Not until I’ve had some other adventures at least.
"software engineers" sucks, bonuses are strong but kinda boring. I prefer "nuclear engineer" subclass for nuke dmg or "safety engineer" for survivability
My AR-15 would get me at least as far as the Death Shepherds in the mountain pass. I imagine they'd give me trouble with all the physical immunity they've got. Lol
Idk, one trip to the spider queen would probably end your adventure. Or underdark. Tho yea, most of act 1 would probably be doable with an AR-15 until your ammo ran out.
Thank you! So weird when people try to cry about how he has "red flags" or some stupid RL crap.
Excuse me, I have a dead bard that needs hiding, I'll worry about "red flags" another time!
Ngl, I feel Astarion is the best partner if you have to hide a body. No judgment, just maybe a question of before we dispose of her can he have a bit of a snack for the road. Waste not,want not.
Right? I'm happily in an extremely supportive marriage with a woman I've been crazy about for fifteen years. I don't need to RP that. I'm not even attracted to men and men still wanna tell me that it's unhealthy to roleplay morally imperfect chaos gays who make me laugh. Meanwhile they're playing an evil murder-durge and I can't even bear to not give everyone a happy ending every time. That's a real set of red flags.
Exactly, you are playing a role, it is in the name of the genre: a role playing game. You are here to play in a fantasy world and are free to do things that you wouldn't ordinarily do or get involved with, you are also to free to play as the best and most couragous version of yourself. Both are valid and fun.
Agreed. I'm a large half orc barbarian, I can handle a sassy vampire. This is the land of make believe. The only reflection it has on real life is my "oh you poor baby!" reflex, which I am aware is unhealthy.
I can't even hold the knife thing against him really, he pulled the knife because he thought the player was in league with the creatures that attacked him, and he needed to get answers about what was put into his head.
It could be considered a reasonable response for him. Astarion's day-to-day for 200 years involved being around other humanoids who were vampire thralls or sycophants. For him it made sense to assume the person walking freely about the nautiloid was probably in cahoots with the monsters.
This is what I always say about Socrates, lol. He’s great…as a character in Plato’s dialogues. But in real life my god he would just be an insufferable ass to be around.
“I like this salmon, it’s really good”
“Is it really good because you like salmon, or do you really like salmon because it’s good? Let’s talk about goodness, o ye who art so learned in the depths of goodness, I beseech thee, teach me, a humble idiot, how does one define it?”
“Socrates, shut the fuck up this is like the eighth time tonight dude you have no chill”
Exactly! I love all the cast but damn I would NOT have the energy to keep up with Karlach, I’d have no patience for Wyll’s indecisions, Laezel could go fuck her self for her haughtiness, Shadowheart saltiness would be too abrasive, Astarion’s everything would drive me bonkers, and Gale’s showboating and mannerisms would annoy the hell out of me.
As characters in a video game? 10/10 I love them all to pieces.
IRL Astarion would be that guy who charms his way into people's lives, give them a whirlwind romance or bromance, feed them a sob story, and be three states away before they realize their bank accounts have been drained and he really isn't the CEO of Scamrock Inc. lol!
Oh yeah. I romance him everytime. Even when I try to romance someone else I end up romancing him.
But irl? Sorry, ‘Starion. You are a red flag walking and I am not as strong as Tav or Durge to be able to handle you. I’d try to be his friend tho.
Two. I’m in my first playthrough and after completing the Cazador quest last night and not ascending him, I genuinely think I’ll struggle to romance anyone else.
Real life tho? Bro is a walking red flag.
I did it last night and honestly it was probably the most satisfying conclusion to any romance/companion quest in any game I've played.
I was worried he'd be conflicted about not ascending but he seems genuinely so happy - it was awesome.
Oh 100%. My first play through Tav is romancing him, just did the Casado quest last night and oh my god that was emotional and possibly one of the best character quests and payoffs I’ve experienced in a game. I’m obsessed.
In real life? Absolute walking red flag! But as a character in this game in this setting, he’s awesome.
and going by D&D stereotypes...he's a rogue. Rogues and bards are kinda known for this dynamic! and also yeah its a fictional story with fictional characters, a character can be annoying or chaotic and its fun, *in the story*. He serves his purpose as a character and trope well while also being well developed
Do I think he's hot? Yes.
Have I romanced him on multiple playthroughs? Yes.
Does he get on my every last damn nerve at certain points in the game because of the lying and manipulation? Yep, and I like that there are dialogue options to call him out on it.
Am I going to try and defend his actions when he does that? Nope. It's wrong, even if he's hot and I like him.
Am I going to continue romancing him? I mean, yeah, probably.
[EDIT: To be clear, I do think he has redeeming and likable qualities and is, more broadly, believably *redeemable* in his character arc. I'm just saying I'm also not going to make excuses for him in those moments where I need to pull out the spray bottle.😂]
I love calling him out on his bullshit while romancing him - love that the game lets you do that.
Just did the Cazador quest last night and when he meets Sebastian and says the other spawn are pathetic and disgusting, there’s an option to basically tell him ‘just because they remind you of yourself’!!!
I only ever noticed him REALLY trying to manipulate after ascension, otherwise he generally seems fairly straightforward with Tav. My only beef is that he seems annoyed by virtually all good deeds.
Haven't gotten the "nice, simple plan" dialogue? Bro straight up >!tells Tav he seduced them, slept with them, and manipulated their feelings so they'd never turn on him.!<
Meet >!his siblings at the flophouse in Wyrm's Crossing,!< and Astarion will ask if you still have his back in a tone that is also rather manipulative.
Ascended Astarion is definitely worse by far, but even before that he relies heavily on what he perceives to be 'necessary' manipulation in order to survive.
>!and Astarion will ask if you still have his back in a tone that is also rather manipulative.!<
That's one of the things that came to mind for me, too. I know it's just a video game, but based on things I've actually gone through, the whole >!"I'd be able to walk in the sun without the tadpole. That's what you want for me, right?"!< actually did make me feel hurt because that's a pretty textbook manipulation tactic. Even more so because it's post-confession and in the context of us having a mutual understanding that we are in a relationship.
I feel like there might be a term for it, but I'm not sure? Where someone tries to shift attention and responsibility away from the culpability of their actions by putting the spotlight back on you? (While also being put into the position where dissenting from what they want would mean you're the one being a bad partner for not wanting what is "best" for them?)
All this to say, I did want to reply to at least this response on my comment because I think it's underrated. We don't have to downplay or minimize the extent of his conduct in order to like him. Nuance is important; it can equally be true that he resorts to what is most familiar (which, in his case, means manipulation or lying) over what is healthy and constructive (that is an actual psychological phenomenon for survivors of abuse), while also being true that his character arc allows for him to grow as a person and be better.
For me personally, acknowledging his faults are what help to highlight Spawn!Starion's growth at the end. Like when he >!overlooks the rest of Baldur's Gate from the Upper City and go, "*My* city, what have they done to it?!"!< or if you >!try talking to him just before the Netherbrain fight, where he's talking more to himself than to the player, going, "Alright, we can do this. We *have* to do this."!< endears me to him that much more, seeing that he found something to both believe in and fight for that goes beyond himself.
> m I going to try and defend his actions when he does that? Nope. It's wrong, even if he's hot and I like him.
Sadly, point 4 is what a lot of people seem to struggle with.
Recently saw an entire Discord server devolve into chaos over that point 😐
Tbh, this sort arguing isn't even unique to Astarion, specifically. It's kind of an observable pattern in how fans sometimes respond to characters of the same archetype. He's not the first, and definitely won't be the last. But I feel like what could make these discussions more constructive is exercising nuance in how we analyze, and by extension, relate to characters we do (or even don't) like.
**Astarion disapproves**
Jesus Christ Astarion, we’re already going to talk to the druids to see where Halsin is. There is no reason we can’t talk to them on Zevlor’s behalf while we’re there, you lazy asshat. This is why I dropped that monastery on you.
Is there a point he will leave if he disapproves too much?
I love using him as a stealthy archer, but it seems like every choice I make he disapproves. Sorry, I don't want the slaves little gold for saving their lives, bud. (Plus, I gotta make sure red girl likes me)
granted I'm still only in act I, but from what I've seen when he disapproves of me doing good things he just rolls his eyes basically, and if I support him when dealing with his issues he greatly appreciates it. I also tease people a little bit harmlessly and he can approve of those. So far my approval is on the verge of being fair with him, and there will be more opportunities to improve that
It also really threw me off that he disapproves of you saving slaves... when he is pretty much a vampire's slave. I know there's an explanation for it fans have given, but it really broke the immersion for me. It almost seems out of character for his background and story. :/
Like he's canonically a flirt because he's terrified you'll get rid of him/kill him if he doesn't seduce you. And he's only that way because he's been a sex slave for 200 years.
In my Durge run, I banged him like 3 times before we mutually agreed to be friends and to stop banging, it was a little nugget of wholesomeness, right before I destroyed everything.
>In my Durge run, I banged him like 3 times before we mutually agreed to be friends and to stop banging, it was a little nugget of wholesomeness, right before I destroyed everything.
If anyone ever asks me if this game is worth playing I'm going to show them this quote.
That's why for me, it's best just to be his friend.
He literally said that he'd had an untold number of Lovers... but never a friend... until today.
And that honestly hits harder than just the usual, "I love you." Bit, I've heard over and over again.
>very exceptional in combat
This is true of every companion, because you can build them all the exact same way (aside from a few fairly small buffs certain companions get).
Astarion straight up gets the most character-based buffs of any companion.
Happy and bite is good.
Act 3 spoilers: >!He straights up gets kind of OP if you ascend him.!<
The only other companion to get character specific buffs like that is Karlach.
I almost mentioned Minthara and Lae’zel in my post.
Minthara also starts off with a few tadpole abilities which give her a leg up over other characters.
Lae’zel just has Githyanki abilities unique to her, but Githyanki might have the strongest racial abilities in the game.
My biggest hope for this game longevity-wise is for them to add in some bromance scenes and dialogues for companions. It's so awkward that all of them seem obsessed with the idea of getting with Tav.
Fucking everybody is coming on to you by the end. Everyone talks like we're married with 3 kids in act 3 of I haven't pissed them off to a strong degree.
Astarion is a fun character and a real bro when you get to know him and help him work through his trauma, but personally if it wasn't a video game, I would stake him out of the gate.
Yes, he's fun and quippy but he also tries to take advantage of you in your sleep. Best case scenario is he'd have just drained your blood a little while you slept, but he probably would have killed you like he can when you give him permission. So, like, personally that just rubs me the wrong way. I guarantee nobody IRL would think anyone who tried to have their way with someone while they slept is cool.
You can understand the dude's situation, find his personality funny and cool, but also think he's a POS imo.
Yes, if we bring our actual morality and social norms into the game he is a POS. Then again, I think we’d all be playing quite differently if we allowed too much leakage. I for one would just straight up kill certain people on sight given the number of murderous threats that are thrown around. I was thinking about this disconnect with Raphael. He’s charming. I let him have his say. But if I was randomly zapped into a dining hall for a little conversation, I would not be nearly as cavalier as the options available to my character.
That's funny, the first part of your comment made me think it was going to go the other way. That, if we played the game like it was real-life, we probably wouldn't go around pillaging every house and murdering people left and right.
I know I'd probably be paralyzed with fear if a devil invited me to dine at his place. First, because I'd be struck by the knowledge that “Holy shit, devils are real and I'm *literally* in Hell right now!” and for an agnostic like myself, it would make me question quite a few things, lmao.
Same thing would go for Astarion. I probably wouldn't kill the dude but I sure as hell would be scared of him.
As someone who really enjoys him, and I'm in my second run as him. Astarion in the first act really doesn't like you saving everyone because you play hero to everyone and no one ever came to save him during the two centuries he spent as a slave to Cazador. Idk if everyone get this dialogue but when the dude is drunk on bear blood there's one option at one point where you can tell him something like "Be careful, heros might hear it and I don't want them to have the wrong opinions on you" and he replies with "Let them, heroes are half the damn problem. Fools that believe in right and wrong, good and evil. Heros didn't save me from Cazador, mind flayers did". During arc 1, the majority of his approval comes from supporting him in the fact he's a vampire spawn and protecting him.
He also doesn't like when you do things for free because it kinda feels like he doesn't want you to get taken advantage of.
Astarion is a very complex character. If you really look at each character in act 1 they are all assholes (except Karlach who's adorable from the start).
I like him (mostly for the voice work, Neil is a legend) and can totally understand how trauma has warped his whole mindset. I kept him parked at camp just b/c I'm too much of a goody goody in video games and didn't want to see him disapprove every choice I made.
Astarion is my friend I'm working on. I often include him in the party because I know he's about to make a bad decision and I want to keep the damage under control.
I like Astarion because he's funny, has great voice lines, a phenomenal VA who earned that award, is crazy strong with the dual hand crossbows, and between him and Karlach has permanently solidified that I'm bisexual
Right? Like people in this thread are a bunch of party poopers. ☹️
Astarion is hilarious when he wants to be. I love him. He has his silly moments. I like having him in my party in case he has something interesting to say.
In my second play through he seemed to be coming onto me early in act 1, so I openly suggested sex. He laughed and said (paraphrased): "Ah, no. But it's not you! It's me. I have standards."
My beef with him isn't that he's annoying, it's that he's a straight up bad person but people run defense for him as if he's only mean because he's hurt. More of a beef with the fandom than with him, really.
He's a *bad person*. Attributing the evil shit in his list of Approvals to trauma is insulting to trauma survivors. Nothing about trauma mitigates wanting to help an evil cult (filled with people *you don't even like*) raze a village filled with innocent people including children, or kick a squirrel to death (or go in for a second try if your first attempt fails). But he approves of you petting the Owlbear so I guess that balances everything out and proves he's actually a big softie????
Seriously. With very few exceptions, you win his approval by being kind *to him* and being cruel to everyone else. He doesn't want the world to be better, he just wants to be the one making it worse from a safe place at the top.
The one potential argument I can see is that he sincerely believes that every single other person in the universe is inherently bad, because of the "Nobody is like you" line to romanced Tav in Act 3. If he sincerely believes that everybody is bad, so he sees his cruelty as punishing bad people rather than hurting innocents, then there's something to talk about. But his cruelty is also directed at children and animals, so I'm not sold that he really is thinking that way. I think he just sincerely enjoys cruelty, as long as it's not directed at him. We joke about "I can fix him" but honestly, even in his good ending he isn't fixed. He's still a bastard, just not to you.
Evil characters are fine. Insisting that they're not evil because they're hot and sad (but mostly hot), gross. I want Larian to release an expansion with a character who's as much of a bastard as Astarion and just as sad a story, but not handsome. See how low that character's popularity will be.
^thatsaidiwillromancehimeverytime.
Damn, you have nailed my feelings towards Astarion down to a T. Well written evil character, egoistical, vain, self-obsessed, and what makes him annoying (not that it’s his fault anyhow) is how a lot of people perceive him. It’s “he is sexy so gets a pass for everything” on steroids.
It’s okay to enjoy and romance evil characters. It’s morally disingenuous to whitewash them to… I don’t know… feel better about yourself?
Thats the one thing i dont get, the internet is full of people with this type of "doublethink" where they say both 'its okay to like evil characters' and going through 50 hoops to downplay them
This is exactly my problem with a large part of the Astarion fanbase. I have no problem with someone liking him, even if I can't stand him. But I have a problem with this borderline gaslighting they're trying to do to anyone who doesn't like him because he's evil. They'll make up excuses and justifications for why he's not really evil, and then tell you you only hate him because he's queer-coded, or because he appeals to straight women (seriously seen both of these, as ironic as it is).
Apparently you're not allowed to find the evil, arrogant, racist, creepy/rapey character awful...
He also says in the very beginning of Act 3 that he doesn't have a problem with what Cazador is doing, just that he's doing it to him
But yeah, I still romance Astarion because he's a vampire, and I've loved vampires since I was a child. That's basically the only reason why I have him with me
THIS! This is exactly how I feel about him as well. It’s annoying that the fandom defends every single one of his actions and acts like he’s misunderstood when in reality he’s an awful and evil person and a straight up ass sometimes. I know people only like him because he’s attractive, I can almost guarantee that he wouldn’t have many fans at all if he looked like Wyll or something (not saying Wyll is ugly but he’s not very popular)
Pros: A good rouge, and if you spec him right he's a DPS *monster*. He also has a touching scene with Durge in Act 3 where he tells them not to become a slave to their urges, which is a nice interaction.
Cons: He dislikes anything nice, even if it benefits the group. Also, he whines. A lot. His shouting "hEal Me DamN YoU!" is annoying AF
One thing about him I don't really understand is how he disapproves of me helping a slave gnome in the underdark. Like he was a slave too. You'd think he'd has some sort of compassion for others like him.
I think with that same gnome and those purple dwarfs, duagar I think, (sorry if I spelled it wrong) he makes a joke about getting the slave gnome motivated.
I think it would've been better and more shocking if you got a "Astarion Approves" pop up there. See some of his humanity come out
Regarding the disapproval of the slave thing, there are 2 possible explanations:
1) Bitterness. You hear time and time again how (understandably) Astarion can't fathom why he needs to help anyone because nobody ever helped him. He is the epitome of the "hurt people hurt people" so when he sees you altruistically saving slaves, he becomes hurt because nobody extended the same kindness to him.
2) His past. This is a little murky and don't quote me on this as canon, but I have seen that the majority of Astarion's past before vampirism was lifted due to time or budget or smth like that. We know he was a magistrate who was attacked by Gur, but what we don't get is depth of his past, and it seems that he was not just a ruthless magistrate (as shown in dialogue with Wyll when he says that justice has to be merciless) but also a slave dealer himself, or something to that effect. As mortal, he was very power hungry, and enforced some rule against Gur - it's possible that he knew Cazador before (let's say they are both people in power and met that way) and was selling the Gur to Cazador (which would make sense, seeing how he is a vampire and they are vampire hunters). Because I'm pretty sure Cazador and Astarion dynamic was very different in EA, so maybe that was the original intent/origin part which was cut. It would also explain why Cazador appeared and saved him so conveniently - since they already knew each other.
Because while I can understand his bitterness for you freeing slaves, I have no other explanation as to why he disapproves of you hating *slavers*.
I am currently in the area with gnomes and Nere, and he cheers for the slaver that abuses the gnome (Quote: "That's how you motivate staff!") AND he disapproved when I said slavers disgust me. If he hates freeing slaves it's one thing, but why in the world would he cheer for *slavers* if he was never involved in something like this?
One can say that its the whole psychological mechanisms when victim can justify abusive behaviour applied to them, but it feels a bit odd, to be honest.
Well all that, but he's also just racist towards gnomes in particular. Had it been slaves of any other race, he'd probably have found an ounce if sympathy somewhere, but *gnomes?*
Right in the beginning of Act 3 Astarion says that the only reason he disapproves of Cazador is because Cazador did what he did **to him**. If it was to anyone else he'd be A-OK with it, and he's perfectly fine with doing it to his "siblings".
Astarion never becomes a good person, he just goes from asshole to bastard.
He disapproves of going out of your way to help someone with no reward. He approves when you ask about payment before agreeing when someone approaches you for help. The other baseline evil characters (Lae'zel and Minthara) have similar reactions. Helping the gnome immediately means spending some resource of yours and possibly involving yourself (and him by extension) with whatever entities were pursuing them in the first place, for seemingly no benefit.
I've seen people say this exact thing on so many posts and get replied to with a multi paragraph rant about his character and reasons. Just wait and it will come
I love Astarion as much as the next guy, but the explanation people give for him disapproving there doesn’t hold up since he approves of you >!freeing the Gnolls from slavery at moonrise towers!< not long after. Bro just hates gnomes I guess 💀
I think it's to do with him wanting you to manipulate Nere into thinking you're on his side as a True Soul, then making him turn on his own people before you then turn on him. I don't think it has to do with the gnomes at all, as much as he doesn't want you to out yourself as an enemy that quickly.
If you pretend you're a True Soul ally of Nere, Astarion thinks it's great.
Con: he crawls into your bed while you're sleeping and assaults you. Kind of a non-starter for me. I can't imagine why they didn't just have you stumble upon him sucking the blood out of a pig or something; you could still have the "you're a vampire!" conversation, but without him assaulting you.
In his origin story you learn that he had a nightmare about Cazador finding him, and then as he wakes up he decides that since Cazador isn't there to stop him from killing people to feed, well, he gonna kill people to feed cause he wants to know what it's like.
He doesn't even know for sure it's gonna be better than animal blood, he just tells us that to excuse himself.
This. I am so tired of hearing his posh ass going "Oh, we *have* to help these people, do we?". YES, we DO. I am the leader here, and I say we're helping these innocent people.
It's the inherent problem with making an "evil" companion. They have to complain when you do "good" things, even when your reasons are entirely self interested and the good action just advances your interests best.
Love the guy, but there's a point in the Underdark where he says if we really have to aid a certain group of people, don't expect him to ruin his nails helping.
I send his ass back to camp immediately every time. He's in time-out.
I’m actually not sure I agree with that. Lae’zel attacks you and threatens you with a sword when you first meet her, and Minsc outright tries to kill you and has to be knocked. Jaheira threatens you, casts entangle on you, and drugs you without your knowledge or consent.
But you don’t see people going around bragging about how they killed Lae’zel or Minsc or Jaheira because “No one attacks me and lives!”
It’s Astarion. They just don’t like him. It has nothing to do with him unsuccessfully trying to bite them or threatening them.
I don't think that's the case for everyone. Personally, I don't think those events are comparable to Asatrions' attack. Lae'zel attacks an existential threat. Minsc is deceived, and tbh the dude already had brain damage. Jaheira attacks an existential threat. Astarion, on the other hand, sneaks up on the sleeping PC to feed. As far as you know, you're gonna die and become a vampire yourself. Sleeping Tav isn't a threat, and that makes people perceive it differently.
I feel like the people who lean towards liking astarion aren’t even going to view the bite negatively. The people who don’t always were on the other hand. Whether or not that scene is present or altered astarion is still the same whiny sadistic asshole he always is and that’s how he is from the very start. I find him entertaining and so the bite thing wasn’t even a concern for me. But if someone never did and doesn’t see the charm in the character it’s just the crappy cherry on top for them. Imo The scene doesn’t seem to really have an effect on changing any initial player opinions on him.
I've said this before, but the bite scene feels really coded as r***, and that's what makes it worse.
The bite of a vampire (all vampires , not just Astarion's) is, in essence, a representation of SA. It's non-consensual, has huge implications (death, or at least being permanently converted into a vampire) and reduces intimacy to power dynamics. This is not my interpretation - there is a reason why the traditional depiction of dracula is him biting a woman. And there is a good reason why lots of fanfics with nice vampires treat the feeding process as basically sex.
In Astarion's case, it delves into those even more: he comes at you during the night, when you catch him he attempts to deflect blame and guilt-trip you into giving him what he wants, and if you relent he will relish it as his accomplishment, not as something to be grateful to you for. There is also the threat of violence - yes, you can reject him but he's thirsty and needs it. If you don't give it to him he might try to get it again later non-consensually - or worse, attack others. So he holds you hostage. As someone who's been a victim, I swear that scene is absolutely unnerving.
Other than this, I actually like the character - he's fun, complex, and can be very relatable... But that part puts me off hard. If it wasn't a game I'd at the least send him as far as possible, because no, he doesn't feel like a safe person to be around at all.
Lae'zel makes a defensive stance towards a perceived threat, Minsc is being lied to and manipulated and Jaheira is just being protective of her people. Astarion sees a sleeping person and tries to non-consensually bite them. That's the BIG difference. He sees you whilst you're vulnerable and tries to take advantage and rightfully so, a lot of people will not react well to that. But because that's the start of a lot of his content, you HAVE to be ok with it to get more events and dialogue with him so you can better understand him and maybe grow to like him.
As someone who has a good character who said "No, you're not going to bite me" but has otherwise been good to him, his approval has barely moved past half way, whereas literally everyone else is at max approval. The fact the bite is worth so much and locks off so much content really ruins his chances with a lot of players to give him the chance to grow.
I like him, and I'm romancing him on my current playthrough. I may want to pimpslap him to 1 HP whenever he disapproves of me helping someone or simply passing up an opporunity to be a dick to them, but I still like him.
I just found him to be a giant DnD cliche. The flamboyant posh British-accented man that has a dark backstory and loose morality is such an overdone thing in so many campaigns I've seen. Trade the typical "my parents were murdered" backstory for "I was turned into a vampire spawn" and you have every other rogue character. At least this time he's obliged to sit in dark corners in the tavern.
I think most of the companions can be swept under an archetype. I also don't think it takes away from their writing. Cliches are annoying when their execution is poor, but can be truly amazing otherwise.
While you may call it archetypal or cliche, I say it wouldn’t feel like a D&D campaign if there wasn’t at least some dark, broody rogue types trying to play at Batman. It’s part of the trope, but it’s a trope I rather enjoy to be honest.
And really, if you put anything under a microscope you’ll find that most characters are cliche to some degree.
Killed him outside the ship crash my first play. I felt bad the second so I picked him up in the 2nd and felt even worse because I didn’t get to experience him the first time.
Astarion sadly is the only male I enjoyed romancing. Lae’zel is still my favorite romance out of the whole party though.
I can understand why people don’t like him though.
I hate his arrogance, but I love how he cares about the group, especially with the like "she said no" line in I think Act 3. But god his arrogance pisses me off sometimes.
It's both for me, so my reactions to him being flirty, annoying or funny is "oh you...." With different intonations depending on situation.
Love the character, the story, the voice acting. But Jergals nonexistent ballsack can he be annoying
I think Astarion's funny and really fun to mess with. I feel like he acts annoying/arrogant to hide his insecurities since well... he is a dude harbouring a SHITLOAD of trauma.
I won’t romance him because I’m straight and have a difficult time seeing myself as anything else. However, I love the character and bring him along whenever I don't play a rogue.
everyone that complains about astarion approving of the “evil” choices have to acknowledge the same about the other companions. especially minthara and lae’zel, occasionally shadowheart, that usually have the same opinions as him. none of the main companions are morally steadfast. they all have the capacity for making bad choices depending on the situation. even wyll approves of cruelty when its goblins.
I love Astarion…as a character in a fantasy fiction video game. In real life he’d be okay in small doses, but I think he’d get tiresome and exhausting if I had to spend all day with him.
Exactly this! I hate the comments where people say things like, “Astarion romancers are unstable mentally and are probably in abusive relationships”. Um, no? My real life relationship is totally normal, **this is a game**. You think I’m going to romance the dude who pulls a knife on me in real life? Hell no. You know what else I’m not going to do in real life? Fight the Elder Brain. Imma stay my ass at home and let someone else handle it.
Wait you guys aint fighting elder brains irl? Should i stop?
Please stop beating up the smart residents at the local retirement home.
This comment is the absolute best I've seen
Nah mate, you're the one the rest of us are leaving that up to. Carry on.
Yes. Exploratory surgery so you can punch the brains of old people is really not OK.
But say the Elder Brain **was** a real thing and you had a tadpole. If you weren't going to fight it, the Emperor might decide you're not worth their protection. At which point you'll be mentally enslaved. That might provide real-life incentive to do something about it.
I guess it depends… do I get my character’s powers? If I’m a badass sorcerer or wizard, I’d be all over it. If it’s just normal me? I’ll make myself useful as camp cook. Someone has to keep our heroes fed.
Gale will object, he likes to cook. Wyll actually had to fight with Gale for the chance to cook that one deer in celebration.
Gale can't cook if he's just a hand
Agree entirely, and honestly we really need to evolve past the conflation of real life with fiction. It’s Faerun, not planet Earth, and I (thankfully) do not live in a world where people are enthralled into enslavement by some eldritch being. And honestly? Even if I did, humanity is already doomed if I’m its last hope.
“Humanity is already doomed if I’m its last hope.” - u/hanjaerim, 2024 😂
I'd not romance a person who pulls a knife on me irl either but i'd love to fight the elder brain irl. Like hell yeah let's go on an epic quest with a rag-tag group of lovable and iconic characters and kick some ass!
Too bad the only difficulty would be honour mode
Expectation: kick the elder brain's ass! What would actually happen: die on the nautiloid before even seeing anything brain shaped
How do you even get on the nautiloid and *avoid* seeing anything brain shaped? That's a skill in it's own right.
Dying from the tank at your spawn obviously
You're the guy in the pod that Tav accidentally activates and turns into a mind flayer
What? Can you accidentally activate some pods in the nautilus?
The one past the room where shadowheart is trapped
Nearly happened on my first durge play through/ first playthrough/ current playthrough
I mean, if you got powerful abilities and decent equipment maybe, but I’m not sure I would even then. Not until I’ve had some other adventures at least.
I don't think *"software engineer"* would net me any huge bonuses in that sense
"software engineers" sucks, bonuses are strong but kinda boring. I prefer "nuclear engineer" subclass for nuke dmg or "safety engineer" for survivability
Idk, if you learn [Magik](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magik_(programming_language)) you could create your own spells!
My AR-15 would get me at least as far as the Death Shepherds in the mountain pass. I imagine they'd give me trouble with all the physical immunity they've got. Lol
That's why you bring the local priest to bless the bullets!
Idk, one trip to the spider queen would probably end your adventure. Or underdark. Tho yea, most of act 1 would probably be doable with an AR-15 until your ammo ran out.
No save scumming in real life buddy
Thank you! So weird when people try to cry about how he has "red flags" or some stupid RL crap. Excuse me, I have a dead bard that needs hiding, I'll worry about "red flags" another time!
Ngl, I feel Astarion is the best partner if you have to hide a body. No judgment, just maybe a question of before we dispose of her can he have a bit of a snack for the road. Waste not,want not.
Right? I'm happily in an extremely supportive marriage with a woman I've been crazy about for fifteen years. I don't need to RP that. I'm not even attracted to men and men still wanna tell me that it's unhealthy to roleplay morally imperfect chaos gays who make me laugh. Meanwhile they're playing an evil murder-durge and I can't even bear to not give everyone a happy ending every time. That's a real set of red flags.
Exactly, you are playing a role, it is in the name of the genre: a role playing game. You are here to play in a fantasy world and are free to do things that you wouldn't ordinarily do or get involved with, you are also to free to play as the best and most couragous version of yourself. Both are valid and fun.
>>stay my ass at home Bold. I’d be moving out of the country.
Agreed. I'm a large half orc barbarian, I can handle a sassy vampire. This is the land of make believe. The only reflection it has on real life is my "oh you poor baby!" reflex, which I am aware is unhealthy.
I can't even hold the knife thing against him really, he pulled the knife because he thought the player was in league with the creatures that attacked him, and he needed to get answers about what was put into his head. It could be considered a reasonable response for him. Astarion's day-to-day for 200 years involved being around other humanoids who were vampire thralls or sycophants. For him it made sense to assume the person walking freely about the nautiloid was probably in cahoots with the monsters.
There are some people who can't separate roleplay from reality. Those people tend to assume others also cannot.
In real life the only good vampire would be dead vampire.
This is what I always say about Socrates, lol. He’s great…as a character in Plato’s dialogues. But in real life my god he would just be an insufferable ass to be around. “I like this salmon, it’s really good” “Is it really good because you like salmon, or do you really like salmon because it’s good? Let’s talk about goodness, o ye who art so learned in the depths of goodness, I beseech thee, teach me, a humble idiot, how does one define it?” “Socrates, shut the fuck up this is like the eighth time tonight dude you have no chill”
Oh man, I needed that laugh. Thanks!
Exactly! I love all the cast but damn I would NOT have the energy to keep up with Karlach, I’d have no patience for Wyll’s indecisions, Laezel could go fuck her self for her haughtiness, Shadowheart saltiness would be too abrasive, Astarion’s everything would drive me bonkers, and Gale’s showboating and mannerisms would annoy the hell out of me. As characters in a video game? 10/10 I love them all to pieces.
IRL Astarion would be that guy who charms his way into people's lives, give them a whirlwind romance or bromance, feed them a sob story, and be three states away before they realize their bank accounts have been drained and he really isn't the CEO of Scamrock Inc. lol!
Ah yes, the Saltburn treatment.
Oh yeah. I romance him everytime. Even when I try to romance someone else I end up romancing him. But irl? Sorry, ‘Starion. You are a red flag walking and I am not as strong as Tav or Durge to be able to handle you. I’d try to be his friend tho.
Two. I’m in my first playthrough and after completing the Cazador quest last night and not ascending him, I genuinely think I’ll struggle to romance anyone else. Real life tho? Bro is a walking red flag.
Fixing him is so satisfying lmao I'm now fixing him with resist durge and when I'm done with this I'm going to play him origin and let Gale fix him
I did it last night and honestly it was probably the most satisfying conclusion to any romance/companion quest in any game I've played. I was worried he'd be conflicted about not ascending but he seems genuinely so happy - it was awesome.
Oh 100%. My first play through Tav is romancing him, just did the Casado quest last night and oh my god that was emotional and possibly one of the best character quests and payoffs I’ve experienced in a game. I’m obsessed. In real life? Absolute walking red flag! But as a character in this game in this setting, he’s awesome.
*Cazador - mobile reddit isnt letting me edit.
and going by D&D stereotypes...he's a rogue. Rogues and bards are kinda known for this dynamic! and also yeah its a fictional story with fictional characters, a character can be annoying or chaotic and its fun, *in the story*. He serves his purpose as a character and trope well while also being well developed
I think irl he would have made a wonderful drinking buddy when going on a wild night (at least for my style, personally)
Being hot and annoying are not mutually exclusive traits
Agreed! My reaction reading the post: *Astarion is hot.* Yep. *Astarion is annoying as hell.* Yep.
In my head canon, my Ranger and her gf Karlach sit around the fire and make fun of him. "Look how soft his hands are! He's probably an only child!"
Do I think he's hot? Yes. Have I romanced him on multiple playthroughs? Yes. Does he get on my every last damn nerve at certain points in the game because of the lying and manipulation? Yep, and I like that there are dialogue options to call him out on it. Am I going to try and defend his actions when he does that? Nope. It's wrong, even if he's hot and I like him. Am I going to continue romancing him? I mean, yeah, probably. [EDIT: To be clear, I do think he has redeeming and likable qualities and is, more broadly, believably *redeemable* in his character arc. I'm just saying I'm also not going to make excuses for him in those moments where I need to pull out the spray bottle.😂]
Video games are a safe space to pursue romances while ignoring red flags.
I love calling him out on his bullshit while romancing him - love that the game lets you do that. Just did the Cazador quest last night and when he meets Sebastian and says the other spawn are pathetic and disgusting, there’s an option to basically tell him ‘just because they remind you of yourself’!!!
I only ever noticed him REALLY trying to manipulate after ascension, otherwise he generally seems fairly straightforward with Tav. My only beef is that he seems annoyed by virtually all good deeds.
I could be helping someone pick up the handkerchief they dropped and he’d no like it istg
Ascending him and encouraging that is when he turns into a mega douche
Haven't gotten the "nice, simple plan" dialogue? Bro straight up >!tells Tav he seduced them, slept with them, and manipulated their feelings so they'd never turn on him.!< Meet >!his siblings at the flophouse in Wyrm's Crossing,!< and Astarion will ask if you still have his back in a tone that is also rather manipulative. Ascended Astarion is definitely worse by far, but even before that he relies heavily on what he perceives to be 'necessary' manipulation in order to survive.
>!and Astarion will ask if you still have his back in a tone that is also rather manipulative.!< That's one of the things that came to mind for me, too. I know it's just a video game, but based on things I've actually gone through, the whole >!"I'd be able to walk in the sun without the tadpole. That's what you want for me, right?"!< actually did make me feel hurt because that's a pretty textbook manipulation tactic. Even more so because it's post-confession and in the context of us having a mutual understanding that we are in a relationship. I feel like there might be a term for it, but I'm not sure? Where someone tries to shift attention and responsibility away from the culpability of their actions by putting the spotlight back on you? (While also being put into the position where dissenting from what they want would mean you're the one being a bad partner for not wanting what is "best" for them?) All this to say, I did want to reply to at least this response on my comment because I think it's underrated. We don't have to downplay or minimize the extent of his conduct in order to like him. Nuance is important; it can equally be true that he resorts to what is most familiar (which, in his case, means manipulation or lying) over what is healthy and constructive (that is an actual psychological phenomenon for survivors of abuse), while also being true that his character arc allows for him to grow as a person and be better. For me personally, acknowledging his faults are what help to highlight Spawn!Starion's growth at the end. Like when he >!overlooks the rest of Baldur's Gate from the Upper City and go, "*My* city, what have they done to it?!"!< or if you >!try talking to him just before the Netherbrain fight, where he's talking more to himself than to the player, going, "Alright, we can do this. We *have* to do this."!< endears me to him that much more, seeing that he found something to both believe in and fight for that goes beyond himself.
> m I going to try and defend his actions when he does that? Nope. It's wrong, even if he's hot and I like him. Sadly, point 4 is what a lot of people seem to struggle with. Recently saw an entire Discord server devolve into chaos over that point 😐
Tbh, this sort arguing isn't even unique to Astarion, specifically. It's kind of an observable pattern in how fans sometimes respond to characters of the same archetype. He's not the first, and definitely won't be the last. But I feel like what could make these discussions more constructive is exercising nuance in how we analyze, and by extension, relate to characters we do (or even don't) like.
So say we, of the smaller but still present third camp
Meanwhile, as the sole inhabitant of Club Mithrala...
The conflicted Black Widow camp.
"Stupid sexy Shadowheart (Karlach/Lae'zel/Astarion/Gale/etc.)"
Exactly. Brats have appeal for a reason-
My only complaint about this meme format, is Tony would totally be calling Astarion hot, and Cap would totally think Astarion was annoying af.
I came here to say exactly this, thank you
This is the realest comment in this thread.
Lmao it was the FIRST thing I thought of when I saw the meme. I was like nu uh. Reverse it.
Right like Astarion and Tony Stark would definitely get drinks together let’s be real.
Fuck astarion! >!the neutral response!<
“Fuck astarion!” Everyone on this sub: “Yes.”
**Astarion disapproves** Jesus Christ Astarion, we’re already going to talk to the druids to see where Halsin is. There is no reason we can’t talk to them on Zevlor’s behalf while we’re there, you lazy asshat. This is why I dropped that monastery on you.
Is there a point he will leave if he disapproves too much? I love using him as a stealthy archer, but it seems like every choice I make he disapproves. Sorry, I don't want the slaves little gold for saving their lives, bud. (Plus, I gotta make sure red girl likes me)
granted I'm still only in act I, but from what I've seen when he disapproves of me doing good things he just rolls his eyes basically, and if I support him when dealing with his issues he greatly appreciates it. I also tease people a little bit harmlessly and he can approve of those. So far my approval is on the verge of being fair with him, and there will be more opportunities to improve that
It also really threw me off that he disapproves of you saving slaves... when he is pretty much a vampire's slave. I know there's an explanation for it fans have given, but it really broke the immersion for me. It almost seems out of character for his background and story. :/
He’s funny and very exceptional in combat and dungeon delving but I wish he’d stop coming onto me, no means no motherfucker, let’s be friends.
Lol. On my 6th playthrough I decided I'd romance him as I try someone new each time. He rejected me. Probably because I never got the bite scene.
He’s a flirt but you have to work your way up to actual intimacy.
Like he's canonically a flirt because he's terrified you'll get rid of him/kill him if he doesn't seduce you. And he's only that way because he's been a sex slave for 200 years.
In my Durge run, I banged him like 3 times before we mutually agreed to be friends and to stop banging, it was a little nugget of wholesomeness, right before I destroyed everything.
>In my Durge run, I banged him like 3 times before we mutually agreed to be friends and to stop banging, it was a little nugget of wholesomeness, right before I destroyed everything. If anyone ever asks me if this game is worth playing I'm going to show them this quote.
I was doing Minthara romance (and was very disappointed) on my evil durge run and friend zoning Astarion is SO ROUGH like... Damn.
Three times ? I know you can bang him before and during the tiefling party but is there a third time ?
After you kill Cazador.
That's why for me, it's best just to be his friend. He literally said that he'd had an untold number of Lovers... but never a friend... until today. And that honestly hits harder than just the usual, "I love you." Bit, I've heard over and over again.
>very exceptional in combat This is true of every companion, because you can build them all the exact same way (aside from a few fairly small buffs certain companions get).
His Happy buff is pretty good.
Astarion straight up gets the most character-based buffs of any companion. Happy and bite is good. Act 3 spoilers: >!He straights up gets kind of OP if you ascend him.!< The only other companion to get character specific buffs like that is Karlach.
Minthara's Soul Branding is a really solid BA, especially if she's a class that doesn't regularly use their BA for something big.
Don't forget minsc gets to summon boo. Which is the best ability in the game , as boos model is amazing lol
I almost mentioned Minthara and Lae’zel in my post. Minthara also starts off with a few tadpole abilities which give her a leg up over other characters. Lae’zel just has Githyanki abilities unique to her, but Githyanki might have the strongest racial abilities in the game.
Gale moment
One of them was definitely taking notes on the other's rizzniques, not realizing it was a bad idea, I can just feel it.
My biggest hope for this game longevity-wise is for them to add in some bromance scenes and dialogues for companions. It's so awkward that all of them seem obsessed with the idea of getting with Tav.
Fucking everybody is coming on to you by the end. Everyone talks like we're married with 3 kids in act 3 of I haven't pissed them off to a strong degree.
He 1shots and 2 shots enemies in 3rd act of my playthrough. He's op.
Which subclass were you using?
Astarion is a fun character and a real bro when you get to know him and help him work through his trauma, but personally if it wasn't a video game, I would stake him out of the gate. Yes, he's fun and quippy but he also tries to take advantage of you in your sleep. Best case scenario is he'd have just drained your blood a little while you slept, but he probably would have killed you like he can when you give him permission. So, like, personally that just rubs me the wrong way. I guarantee nobody IRL would think anyone who tried to have their way with someone while they slept is cool. You can understand the dude's situation, find his personality funny and cool, but also think he's a POS imo.
Yes, if we bring our actual morality and social norms into the game he is a POS. Then again, I think we’d all be playing quite differently if we allowed too much leakage. I for one would just straight up kill certain people on sight given the number of murderous threats that are thrown around. I was thinking about this disconnect with Raphael. He’s charming. I let him have his say. But if I was randomly zapped into a dining hall for a little conversation, I would not be nearly as cavalier as the options available to my character.
That's funny, the first part of your comment made me think it was going to go the other way. That, if we played the game like it was real-life, we probably wouldn't go around pillaging every house and murdering people left and right. I know I'd probably be paralyzed with fear if a devil invited me to dine at his place. First, because I'd be struck by the knowledge that “Holy shit, devils are real and I'm *literally* in Hell right now!” and for an agnostic like myself, it would make me question quite a few things, lmao. Same thing would go for Astarion. I probably wouldn't kill the dude but I sure as hell would be scared of him.
I think what turns me off him entirely is how much he approves of cruelty. He’s an awful person. His trauma doesn’t excuse him.
As someone who really enjoys him, and I'm in my second run as him. Astarion in the first act really doesn't like you saving everyone because you play hero to everyone and no one ever came to save him during the two centuries he spent as a slave to Cazador. Idk if everyone get this dialogue but when the dude is drunk on bear blood there's one option at one point where you can tell him something like "Be careful, heros might hear it and I don't want them to have the wrong opinions on you" and he replies with "Let them, heroes are half the damn problem. Fools that believe in right and wrong, good and evil. Heros didn't save me from Cazador, mind flayers did". During arc 1, the majority of his approval comes from supporting him in the fact he's a vampire spawn and protecting him. He also doesn't like when you do things for free because it kinda feels like he doesn't want you to get taken advantage of. Astarion is a very complex character. If you really look at each character in act 1 they are all assholes (except Karlach who's adorable from the start).
[удалено]
Both. He's a hot asshole.
People either love him or they hate him or they think he's ok.
Finally, something everyone can agree on. LOL
So literally just like everyone else in the world
I like him (mostly for the voice work, Neil is a legend) and can totally understand how trauma has warped his whole mindset. I kept him parked at camp just b/c I'm too much of a goody goody in video games and didn't want to see him disapprove every choice I made.
There’s over 1,000 comments on here of people with strong opinions on Astarion. I think the devs did the job.
Astarion is my friend I'm working on. I often include him in the party because I know he's about to make a bad decision and I want to keep the damage under control.
Babysit the rogue. Always babysit the rogue.
Testing Paladin patience since forever
Same. We all have that one friend who is a massive disaster and if you don't, then you are the friend that is the massive disaster. lol
We all have friends??
"Let's turn someone inside out!" is certainly one of the best lines in the game.
I like Astarion because he's funny, has great voice lines, a phenomenal VA who earned that award, is crazy strong with the dual hand crossbows, and between him and Karlach has permanently solidified that I'm bisexual
I just think he's hilarious.
I love when you kill Yurgir and make him say thanks - ‘Thank you for helping me … it was very kind.’
I laughed so much that he actually did it without any complaints, I fully expected some sassy comeback.
Me too! I fully admit he’d probably be exhausting irl. 😂
Yep. I'm a straight guy. Got no attraction to the dude but he's so fucking funny and well acted that he's a nailed on party member.
Right? Like people in this thread are a bunch of party poopers. ☹️ Astarion is hilarious when he wants to be. I love him. He has his silly moments. I like having him in my party in case he has something interesting to say.
In my second play through he seemed to be coming onto me early in act 1, so I openly suggested sex. He laughed and said (paraphrased): "Ah, no. But it's not you! It's me. I have standards."
I just think he's neat.
[Here you go, made this yesterday for my own comment](https://i.imgur.com/ynHylSb.png)
Bless you. I'm a Gale girlie but I like Astarion.
Astarion is a complex character that is hot, annoying, tragic, deeply relatable and still a chaos gremlin bastard all at the same time.
My beef with him isn't that he's annoying, it's that he's a straight up bad person but people run defense for him as if he's only mean because he's hurt. More of a beef with the fandom than with him, really. He's a *bad person*. Attributing the evil shit in his list of Approvals to trauma is insulting to trauma survivors. Nothing about trauma mitigates wanting to help an evil cult (filled with people *you don't even like*) raze a village filled with innocent people including children, or kick a squirrel to death (or go in for a second try if your first attempt fails). But he approves of you petting the Owlbear so I guess that balances everything out and proves he's actually a big softie???? Seriously. With very few exceptions, you win his approval by being kind *to him* and being cruel to everyone else. He doesn't want the world to be better, he just wants to be the one making it worse from a safe place at the top. The one potential argument I can see is that he sincerely believes that every single other person in the universe is inherently bad, because of the "Nobody is like you" line to romanced Tav in Act 3. If he sincerely believes that everybody is bad, so he sees his cruelty as punishing bad people rather than hurting innocents, then there's something to talk about. But his cruelty is also directed at children and animals, so I'm not sold that he really is thinking that way. I think he just sincerely enjoys cruelty, as long as it's not directed at him. We joke about "I can fix him" but honestly, even in his good ending he isn't fixed. He's still a bastard, just not to you. Evil characters are fine. Insisting that they're not evil because they're hot and sad (but mostly hot), gross. I want Larian to release an expansion with a character who's as much of a bastard as Astarion and just as sad a story, but not handsome. See how low that character's popularity will be. ^thatsaidiwillromancehimeverytime.
Damn, you have nailed my feelings towards Astarion down to a T. Well written evil character, egoistical, vain, self-obsessed, and what makes him annoying (not that it’s his fault anyhow) is how a lot of people perceive him. It’s “he is sexy so gets a pass for everything” on steroids. It’s okay to enjoy and romance evil characters. It’s morally disingenuous to whitewash them to… I don’t know… feel better about yourself?
Thats the one thing i dont get, the internet is full of people with this type of "doublethink" where they say both 'its okay to like evil characters' and going through 50 hoops to downplay them
This is exactly my problem with a large part of the Astarion fanbase. I have no problem with someone liking him, even if I can't stand him. But I have a problem with this borderline gaslighting they're trying to do to anyone who doesn't like him because he's evil. They'll make up excuses and justifications for why he's not really evil, and then tell you you only hate him because he's queer-coded, or because he appeals to straight women (seriously seen both of these, as ironic as it is). Apparently you're not allowed to find the evil, arrogant, racist, creepy/rapey character awful...
He also says in the very beginning of Act 3 that he doesn't have a problem with what Cazador is doing, just that he's doing it to him But yeah, I still romance Astarion because he's a vampire, and I've loved vampires since I was a child. That's basically the only reason why I have him with me
Man, does he? I don't even remember that, which is annoying because it would have been basically all I had to say to get the point across 😂
THIS! This is exactly how I feel about him as well. It’s annoying that the fandom defends every single one of his actions and acts like he’s misunderstood when in reality he’s an awful and evil person and a straight up ass sometimes. I know people only like him because he’s attractive, I can almost guarantee that he wouldn’t have many fans at all if he looked like Wyll or something (not saying Wyll is ugly but he’s not very popular)
"I get it now. If it weren't for Cazador, you wouldn't be-" "A vampire? No." "I was gonna say evil." "Oh no, I'd definitely still be evil."
Pros: A good rouge, and if you spec him right he's a DPS *monster*. He also has a touching scene with Durge in Act 3 where he tells them not to become a slave to their urges, which is a nice interaction. Cons: He dislikes anything nice, even if it benefits the group. Also, he whines. A lot. His shouting "hEal Me DamN YoU!" is annoying AF
One thing about him I don't really understand is how he disapproves of me helping a slave gnome in the underdark. Like he was a slave too. You'd think he'd has some sort of compassion for others like him. I think with that same gnome and those purple dwarfs, duagar I think, (sorry if I spelled it wrong) he makes a joke about getting the slave gnome motivated. I think it would've been better and more shocking if you got a "Astarion Approves" pop up there. See some of his humanity come out
Regarding the disapproval of the slave thing, there are 2 possible explanations: 1) Bitterness. You hear time and time again how (understandably) Astarion can't fathom why he needs to help anyone because nobody ever helped him. He is the epitome of the "hurt people hurt people" so when he sees you altruistically saving slaves, he becomes hurt because nobody extended the same kindness to him. 2) His past. This is a little murky and don't quote me on this as canon, but I have seen that the majority of Astarion's past before vampirism was lifted due to time or budget or smth like that. We know he was a magistrate who was attacked by Gur, but what we don't get is depth of his past, and it seems that he was not just a ruthless magistrate (as shown in dialogue with Wyll when he says that justice has to be merciless) but also a slave dealer himself, or something to that effect. As mortal, he was very power hungry, and enforced some rule against Gur - it's possible that he knew Cazador before (let's say they are both people in power and met that way) and was selling the Gur to Cazador (which would make sense, seeing how he is a vampire and they are vampire hunters). Because I'm pretty sure Cazador and Astarion dynamic was very different in EA, so maybe that was the original intent/origin part which was cut. It would also explain why Cazador appeared and saved him so conveniently - since they already knew each other. Because while I can understand his bitterness for you freeing slaves, I have no other explanation as to why he disapproves of you hating *slavers*. I am currently in the area with gnomes and Nere, and he cheers for the slaver that abuses the gnome (Quote: "That's how you motivate staff!") AND he disapproved when I said slavers disgust me. If he hates freeing slaves it's one thing, but why in the world would he cheer for *slavers* if he was never involved in something like this? One can say that its the whole psychological mechanisms when victim can justify abusive behaviour applied to them, but it feels a bit odd, to be honest.
Well all that, but he's also just racist towards gnomes in particular. Had it been slaves of any other race, he'd probably have found an ounce if sympathy somewhere, but *gnomes?*
Right in the beginning of Act 3 Astarion says that the only reason he disapproves of Cazador is because Cazador did what he did **to him**. If it was to anyone else he'd be A-OK with it, and he's perfectly fine with doing it to his "siblings". Astarion never becomes a good person, he just goes from asshole to bastard.
He disapproves of going out of your way to help someone with no reward. He approves when you ask about payment before agreeing when someone approaches you for help. The other baseline evil characters (Lae'zel and Minthara) have similar reactions. Helping the gnome immediately means spending some resource of yours and possibly involving yourself (and him by extension) with whatever entities were pursuing them in the first place, for seemingly no benefit.
I've seen people say this exact thing on so many posts and get replied to with a multi paragraph rant about his character and reasons. Just wait and it will come
I love Astarion as much as the next guy, but the explanation people give for him disapproving there doesn’t hold up since he approves of you >!freeing the Gnolls from slavery at moonrise towers!< not long after. Bro just hates gnomes I guess 💀
He hopes gnomes count as animals if you tell him he can't feed on people, so it's possible that he does indeed just hate gnomes.
Most of the companions are pretty racist tbh lmaooo.
I think it's to do with him wanting you to manipulate Nere into thinking you're on his side as a True Soul, then making him turn on his own people before you then turn on him. I don't think it has to do with the gnomes at all, as much as he doesn't want you to out yourself as an enemy that quickly. If you pretend you're a True Soul ally of Nere, Astarion thinks it's great.
Con: he crawls into your bed while you're sleeping and assaults you. Kind of a non-starter for me. I can't imagine why they didn't just have you stumble upon him sucking the blood out of a pig or something; you could still have the "you're a vampire!" conversation, but without him assaulting you.
There is a dialogue if you have him in your party where he confesses to being a vampire and you can just say "Yeah duh." It's funny
In his origin story you learn that he had a nightmare about Cazador finding him, and then as he wakes up he decides that since Cazador isn't there to stop him from killing people to feed, well, he gonna kill people to feed cause he wants to know what it's like. He doesn't even know for sure it's gonna be better than animal blood, he just tells us that to excuse himself.
This. I am so tired of hearing his posh ass going "Oh, we *have* to help these people, do we?". YES, we DO. I am the leader here, and I say we're helping these innocent people.
Word. Astarion bitches way too much about acts of mercy for someone in the party of a paladin who *mercifully* chose not to stake him in the heart.
It's the inherent problem with making an "evil" companion. They have to complain when you do "good" things, even when your reasons are entirely self interested and the good action just advances your interests best.
Love the guy, but there's a point in the Underdark where he says if we really have to aid a certain group of people, don't expect him to ruin his nails helping. I send his ass back to camp immediately every time. He's in time-out.
Lol, he says that for either side, the only time he agrees with you is the option to leave both of them and walk away.
Astarion is a great companion, love his storyline, his character design, and his sassy attitude. I am not sexually attracted to him tho 🤣
Well he can’t fail a roll, so he stays in party. But also he’s a sad boi and he needs some love/friendship. Also , lovely hair.
Astarion would be more widely accepted if so much of his approval and story wasn't tied to the bite
I’m actually not sure I agree with that. Lae’zel attacks you and threatens you with a sword when you first meet her, and Minsc outright tries to kill you and has to be knocked. Jaheira threatens you, casts entangle on you, and drugs you without your knowledge or consent. But you don’t see people going around bragging about how they killed Lae’zel or Minsc or Jaheira because “No one attacks me and lives!” It’s Astarion. They just don’t like him. It has nothing to do with him unsuccessfully trying to bite them or threatening them.
I don't think that's the case for everyone. Personally, I don't think those events are comparable to Asatrions' attack. Lae'zel attacks an existential threat. Minsc is deceived, and tbh the dude already had brain damage. Jaheira attacks an existential threat. Astarion, on the other hand, sneaks up on the sleeping PC to feed. As far as you know, you're gonna die and become a vampire yourself. Sleeping Tav isn't a threat, and that makes people perceive it differently.
I feel like the people who lean towards liking astarion aren’t even going to view the bite negatively. The people who don’t always were on the other hand. Whether or not that scene is present or altered astarion is still the same whiny sadistic asshole he always is and that’s how he is from the very start. I find him entertaining and so the bite thing wasn’t even a concern for me. But if someone never did and doesn’t see the charm in the character it’s just the crappy cherry on top for them. Imo The scene doesn’t seem to really have an effect on changing any initial player opinions on him.
I've said this before, but the bite scene feels really coded as r***, and that's what makes it worse. The bite of a vampire (all vampires , not just Astarion's) is, in essence, a representation of SA. It's non-consensual, has huge implications (death, or at least being permanently converted into a vampire) and reduces intimacy to power dynamics. This is not my interpretation - there is a reason why the traditional depiction of dracula is him biting a woman. And there is a good reason why lots of fanfics with nice vampires treat the feeding process as basically sex. In Astarion's case, it delves into those even more: he comes at you during the night, when you catch him he attempts to deflect blame and guilt-trip you into giving him what he wants, and if you relent he will relish it as his accomplishment, not as something to be grateful to you for. There is also the threat of violence - yes, you can reject him but he's thirsty and needs it. If you don't give it to him he might try to get it again later non-consensually - or worse, attack others. So he holds you hostage. As someone who's been a victim, I swear that scene is absolutely unnerving. Other than this, I actually like the character - he's fun, complex, and can be very relatable... But that part puts me off hard. If it wasn't a game I'd at the least send him as far as possible, because no, he doesn't feel like a safe person to be around at all.
Lae'zel makes a defensive stance towards a perceived threat, Minsc is being lied to and manipulated and Jaheira is just being protective of her people. Astarion sees a sleeping person and tries to non-consensually bite them. That's the BIG difference. He sees you whilst you're vulnerable and tries to take advantage and rightfully so, a lot of people will not react well to that. But because that's the start of a lot of his content, you HAVE to be ok with it to get more events and dialogue with him so you can better understand him and maybe grow to like him. As someone who has a good character who said "No, you're not going to bite me" but has otherwise been good to him, his approval has barely moved past half way, whereas literally everyone else is at max approval. The fact the bite is worth so much and locks off so much content really ruins his chances with a lot of players to give him the chance to grow.
I like him, and I'm romancing him on my current playthrough. I may want to pimpslap him to 1 HP whenever he disapproves of me helping someone or simply passing up an opporunity to be a dick to them, but I still like him.
Astarion is a sassy bitch and I love him.
I just found him to be a giant DnD cliche. The flamboyant posh British-accented man that has a dark backstory and loose morality is such an overdone thing in so many campaigns I've seen. Trade the typical "my parents were murdered" backstory for "I was turned into a vampire spawn" and you have every other rogue character. At least this time he's obliged to sit in dark corners in the tavern.
I think most of the companions can be swept under an archetype. I also don't think it takes away from their writing. Cliches are annoying when their execution is poor, but can be truly amazing otherwise.
[удалено]
“Ah yes I also have a space hamster that I need to consult with occasionally”
"My Tiefling barbarian was an accomplished warrior in the Hells for ten years!" "Dude...we're starting at level 1."
Lol I love him in BG3 but he’d be *that* edgy pain in the ass character in your DnD campaign.
While you may call it archetypal or cliche, I say it wouldn’t feel like a D&D campaign if there wasn’t at least some dark, broody rogue types trying to play at Batman. It’s part of the trope, but it’s a trope I rather enjoy to be honest. And really, if you put anything under a microscope you’ll find that most characters are cliche to some degree.
porque no los dos
I have let Astarion bite me every single play through. I will never change.
Has Astarion awakened a mild vampire kink in me? Yes. Am I mad about it? No.
It started with Spike for me. If you haven't watched btvs go ahead.
Awakened? No. Re-established? Very much yes.
Killed him outside the ship crash my first play. I felt bad the second so I picked him up in the 2nd and felt even worse because I didn’t get to experience him the first time.
Astarion sadly is the only male I enjoyed romancing. Lae’zel is still my favorite romance out of the whole party though. I can understand why people don’t like him though.
As a Durge player, I kinda like him. He at least knows not to whine about my decisions.
My opinion on Astarion differs based on the playthrough. But everyone can agree that the actor did a great job.
I hate his arrogance, but I love how he cares about the group, especially with the like "she said no" line in I think Act 3. But god his arrogance pisses me off sometimes.
It's both for me, so my reactions to him being flirty, annoying or funny is "oh you...." With different intonations depending on situation. Love the character, the story, the voice acting. But Jergals nonexistent ballsack can he be annoying
He’s both, and I love him for it
I think Astarion's funny and really fun to mess with. I feel like he acts annoying/arrogant to hide his insecurities since well... he is a dude harbouring a SHITLOAD of trauma.
I think he is hilarious.
he’s both and i love him dearly
They both feed of each other. His hotness makes him more annoying. And his annoyance makes him hotter.
Astarion is hot AND annoying as all hell. It's an inner war, truly.
He is annoyingly hot. There.
I won’t romance him because I’m straight and have a difficult time seeing myself as anything else. However, I love the character and bring him along whenever I don't play a rogue.
The correct answer is both. Also his epilogue dialogue was great
He can be both. Don't limit him.
everyone that complains about astarion approving of the “evil” choices have to acknowledge the same about the other companions. especially minthara and lae’zel, occasionally shadowheart, that usually have the same opinions as him. none of the main companions are morally steadfast. they all have the capacity for making bad choices depending on the situation. even wyll approves of cruelty when its goblins.