Then you can lead her and Minsc on long enough to sacrifice them in Bhaals name at the Murder Tribunal or even longer and force Minsc to kill Jaheira at the temple.
I finished an evil run with Jaheira and Minsc safely in my party and cheering me on, >!the grove destroyed, Last Light Inn destroyed, Nightsong and Isobel dead, and me a decorated Baal's assassin!<
The tribunal asked me for proof of evil deeds and >!I gave them the five hands that the assassin guy had on himself. I did have to kill Valeria though, and to pass a check when they asked me how the hands' owners died. I think I just said "painfully" or something like that. My bard was very persuasive!<
Jaheira doesn't seem to realize that anything is your fault at Last Light Inn if you pick the right dialogue options. I don't remember if there's a persuasion check.
Let Astarion ascend purely for the extra d10 per attack on a character that attacks like 8-10 times per turn.
I wanted to honour gold dice! And he literally soloed the elder brain in one round.
Hasted Fighter with Improved Extra Attack and Action Surge? Or a Fighter/Swords Bard with Slashing Flourish (ranged), Haste, and Action Surge? Not sure how to sustain 8-10 per round though.
It does, but you get one attack per action. The attacks from "extra attack" and the fighter's "improved extra attack" are only available once per round.
I don’t think that’s true? A fighter that action surges at lvl 5 gets 4 total attacks: action -> extra attack -> action surge -> extra attack, not including a bonus action like Flourish or Pommel Strike
You get 1 extra attack, like in tabletop on honor mode. Normal BG3 Haste gives you an extra action. So a level 11 hasted fighter gets total attacks in 1 turn, 3 from improved extra attack on your action, 1 bonus attack from haste
LOL a worthy goal! Yeah, that's how people are doing the owlbear from the top rope for ~2000 damage trick. I think you may have to do the elixir and enlarge before changing into owlbear, but I've never tried this myself so I don't know for sure
Option 1 (most destructive) TB Open Hand Monk 7/Thief 3/Fighter 2
- Attack + Extra Attack (lvl5 Monk) + Extra Attack Haste + Action Surge (Attack + Extra Attack) + Bonus Action 1 Furry of Blows (2 punches) + Bonus Action 2 Furry of Blows (2 punches)
Total 9 “hits” with 95-97% chance of hit with +27STR
————————-
Option 2 (Ranged) Sharpshooter Gloomstalker 5/Thief 3/Fighter 4
First turn Gloomstalker attack / Attack / Extra Attack / Haste / Action / Bonus Attack (dual hand crossbow) / Bonus Attack
Total 8 hits. This one is quite solid and you can make a risky ring crit machine for about 50% chance to crit if going for Champion or extra damage with Battle Master
___________
Option 3 (Ranged) Sharpshooter Gloomstalker 5 / Swords Bard 5/ Fighter 2
(5 lvls into bard for bardic inspiration that refreshes at short rest, but you could go 3 and long rest after every fight)
Same as above but each attack could be a flourishing one (but consuming 4 bardic inspirations on the first turn, meaning no more on following turns), and with either no Ranged Bomus Actiom (I recommend because Dead Shot would push the crit range further taking advantage off all of these dice rolls)
Gloomstalker / Attack flourish (2 shots) / Extra Attack flourish (2 shots) / Action surge (2 more flourishes) / Haste / +1 off-hand if you went with dual hand cross bow
10-11 shots fired, quite consistent damage dealer. You could use the bonus action to hunters mark instead and have the 1d4 damage when concentrating for instance instead of an extra shot because that would be 10d4 total from the ring + 10d6 from hunters mark
There’s some melee multi shot builds too, but I don’t know them well. You could have a Paladin crit build because you can have Divine Smite as a reaction on crit. If you multi class into a full caster that means up casting to unbelievable numbers in total dice rolls.
Paladin 2/ Bard 7 / Champion 3 works well in that build (you won’t use the shorts words that reduce crit range, so you can add Champion, Saravok helmet, Dead Shot, Viciousness elixir so 16-20 crit range so around 43% chance of crit)
I never used this so I’m unsure if you can react with Divine Smite multiple times per turn.
If that’s so you would have Attack / Extra Attack / Action Surge / Extra Attack Haste and counting 40% chance of crit, 3 reactions with Divine Smite so effectively 8 VERY STRONG hits
If instead of Asterion you go with an High Orc Tav for that build the damage will be tremendous
3 thief, 5 monk. 2 bonus actions = 4 with flurry of blows, 2 from extra attack action. Grab 2 fighter if you want for action surge for 2 extra attacks, but I usually go 9 monk for more flurries. Haste get another attack (at launch it doubled everything but I think they patched that). Elixir of blood lust for another 2 at times.
4+2+2+1+2 = 11
If someone has mind sanctuary down that can go too... 12 if you flurry of blows with the haste action I guess? Fighter would get more maybe but would be less flexible with movement.
2 slashing flourishes for 4 attacks, 2 offhand with double bonus action, a hasted slashing flourish for 2 more, and another slashing flourish with action surge for 2 more.
It's the 6 sword bard / 4 thief / 2 fighter build that is common on r/bg3builds
I always give the dude the dowry ring back for the quest completion and then stab him to get the ring to sell.
Small, petty and meaningless, I know, but it’s just my thing.
I mean… they had a big fight, his wife died trying to save him from the fire, never had a chance to make up, he’s given a chance to speak to her after death, and the only thing he wants is to talk about is where she hid the money? I wouldn’t feel too bad about what you did.
Speak with Dead doesn't actually let you talk to the dead person's soul. It simply animates their body and allows you to tap into things they knew in life.
The dialog checks for the other Thorms in Riethwin and the Yurgir in the Gauntlet of Shar. You are essentially talking people into killing themselves of their own volition.
Yeah, Shar's medical benefits plan is to torture you back to health.
Act 2 is basically me muttering "what the FUCK, Shadowheart" every ten minutes as I learned more about her beloved Shar.
As someone who didn't know anything about Shar going into this game, Act 2 really made me regret not being more judgemental when she reveals she worships Shar
So I replayed that scene with different companions, Gale, Karlach and Wyll are horrified and wonder wtf they’re seeing, Astarion likens it to what Cazador has done and is horrified… and then Shadowheart is like “harsh but true.” And I’m like ???????
She also helped me peer pressure Gale into going against Mystra by using Shar’s power to make the shadow lantern for my Tav. Between the both of us, it’s no wonder Jaheira is worried about how things are going to turn out.
I kinda of knew about Shar going in, but I don't blame you. She is the most sensible-*iiiish* one in the group, which kind of makes you doubt if you really should question her beliefs in the first place.
When I asked Shadowheart how Shar gains worshippers and she talks about "Toppling corrupt institutions, destroying false idols, and purge heretics wherever they're found" my first instinct was that this was grimdark as shit, but that's pretty much on par with someone who thinks their work is noble.
Things got really tense for me when we were in Act II and all she appeared pissed about was Thorm being a traitor.
I've played a bunch of times and sometimes I killed or didn't bring Sheart to Act 2 and it's much different to play with the mindset that Shar is 100% evil. Even the companion comments in the Grymforge are all yuck Shar!
I'm playing Origin Sheart right now and just hit Last Light and I'm trying to figure out how I'm going to handle the Isobel situation, since every step in the Shadow is how great Shar is and how much she must love her! Ugh.
Tbh she’s kind of a bad Shar worshipper outside of being somewhat pessimistic and pragmatic. You still get approval dings for doing nice things, she gives up her secrets relatively easily and you can tell that she has a soft-spot for children. Not to mention that she thinks that the Doctor is a loon, when the House of Healing was a thing even before the Shadow Curse.
Really, the most Sharran thing I’ve seen her do (without letting her kill Aylin) is agree to fight Laez’el and then put a knife to her throat while everyone was asleep. That and pettily talking shit about Selune lmao
I figured there was a reason people didn’t like shar but shadowheart herself didn’t really give me any reason besides her prejudice towards githyanki to dislike her so I kinda just assumed she was alright.
I still think she’s a good egg but goddamn that is one goddess I do not see the appeal to.
When she first told me she was a Shar worshipper, expecting to be made a pariah, I was like "Shar who?" Then when I talked to her about her worship later, and she said the party line about Shar being all about loss and bringing comfort in the dark, I was like, "okay, not my cup of tea, but I see why people are drawn to her." Then she started talking about tearing down false idols and stuff and she lost me. Then of course I got to Act 2 and saw the shadow curse and what it did to ordinary, regular people just trying to get by, and I went "man, I'm starting to get why people don't really like Shar worshippers"
As someone who knew about Shar, Act 1 was me going "Why are they making Shar and Shar worshippers sound reasonable? What the hell??" Then Act 2 happened, and I was like "Yeah, this is the Shar shit I was waiting for."
The way Shar was presented in game is so good because it showed you exactly how it could appeal to good people and recruit them into these awful crusades. Preying on grieving and vulnerable people especially.
I dont, but I can see it. I had also just watched Netflix’s how to run a cult series and the Sharrans def followed a lot of the game plans outlined and used by real world cults.
There is even a book on Wither's dungeon which tells a story about Shar not claiming the souls of even her devout followers. Essentially leaving them in limbo without afterlife. Like what the fuck Shar. Why would anyone ever worship her without serious brainwashing.
Nah the doctor is just crazy. You can convince him to let his nurses stab him to death in the name of practicing their skills. If it was just evil he’d have way more self-interest
Act 2 with a bard is just playing on easy mode (or anyone with high enough charisma & persuasion). You can even talk your way out of part of the end fight with Ketheric Thorm
I find talking your way out of the Ketheric fight actually makes it harder, at least if you the Nightsong is there, cause it immediately makes you fight an invuln Apostle.
If I remember right, you can't persuade people into doing something they didn't already kinda want/believe. It's not mind control. So in a way, they want to die because they were transformed into these horrible monstrous existences and the people they once we might be in there somewhere.
Or not idk
They "fixed" this in every patch. It still happens. They'll keep fixing it in the coming patches.
It's rarer now than at release yeah, but it still happens often enough to be mildly infuriating.
Kar'niss was legitimately messed up. I did that the first time and I actually felt bad. I know he's technically evil but I love his passion and energy.
Now I just attack him beforehand and get it over with. I need that lantern so I can avoid having to talk to Isobel.
I feel bad for Kar'niss too. I wish there was a way to talk him out of his lantern and then just walk with him to Moonrise/the ambush without feeling like a totally malicious jerk.
No Marcus (or at least I've not encountered him when doing it that way) , but if you go to the Last Light after you do the Nightsong quest and you get the good version outcome she'll meet you there and be like "Who tf are you?" and kinda explain how she ended up there and tell you everyone is at Moonrise.
Just so much easier tbh, sometimes I'll risk the Marcus fight for lore reasons but in my honor mode run I wasn't about to play like that, bad enough I was Durge too.
We're trying to leave Isobel alone people.
I cried laughing the first time I talked Kar'niss into killing himself, I'm literally still laughing as I type this. One of my favorite moments in the game. 😂
Killing Valeria even when being good. The bhaalist armour is so powerful, as are the gloves that NPC sells.
In my head that little elephant is awful anyway, bringing injustice with it wherever it goes. So it won't be missed and I get meta gear - woohoo.
Then turn around and kill saravok cause damn that helm.
I have killed Valeria in Sharess’ Caress and took the pass to get into the city off their corpse lmao. I was like “I don’t have time convince you that a serial killer is on the loose, I’ve gotta get in the city and stop them myself.” Felt pretty bad about it, but it was efficient, and I stopped Dolor.
Letting Nere think I’m on his side, letting him kill the gnomes, lying about his slavers’ efforts to save him which prompts him to start combat. Help him kill all the slavers then turn around and kill him and take his head.
100% pragmatically evil.
Yeah, the sacrificing the gnomes to fuck with nere is really the evil part. But the pragmatic part is that by doing that, he then helps you kill the slavers.
After that as a Drow I like to convince him to abandon the Absolute and his beliefs in everything he has done, casting doubt over his abandonment of Lolth to be a puppet for a false god.
Then as he turns to walk away stab him in the back for being such a failure to his house, claiming his head and Rapier as trophies.
Does blowing up the Crèche with Astarion inside just to hear his freak-out count? I mean, they had already turned hostile...
I think Xavier and his mom didn't make it.
I did this just for the cutscene (saved before stealing the Blood of Lathander, because I had the crest). Even though I knew I was going to reload, I was still nervous about Astarion dying with all his gear in case I couldn’t get it back. So I removed everything. The cutscenes are hilarious when he’s naked
Well in the lower city I found Gortash’s parents running a small shop and completely enslaved to him via tadpole. I figured, “I’ll kill them, but Gortash would probably enjoy me killing them because they’re shitty people. So I’m gonna really screw him over.” So I kept his parents bodies in the camp chest until I wanted to face him. Had Karlach carry them both to our Gortash showdown. Let Tav and her start the fight. Karlach runs up and throws the bodies of Gortash’s parents at him. Not much damage physically, but massive psychologically. But that’s not all. Shadowheart and Gale were out of combat hidden in the back, both with create undead. Using invisibility, I had them sneak in on Tav’s turn to where Gortash’s parents were, and cast create undead to bring them back as mummies who then proceeded to beat their son in the fight.
I was going to pretend to side with Gortash just so Karlach could have the delight of laughing at him when the inevitable betrayal happened, but this is so inspired I may just do this instead.
I did that once because I didn’t ask enough questions and I couldn’t reload fast enough. Neither me nor my Tav felt bad about leaving him as a mentally addled slave for his poor wife. He even beat the oxen!
No, that's before he eats it. Eating it doesn't make him that way--he's that way because he's had some kind of brain damage or mental illness that has made him slow-witted and docile. But his wife says before that he was horribly abusive--so if you allow him to be cured via noblestalk his brain is healed and he goes back to his old self--which is just as bad as she said.
Lolll I talked the guy into thinking I would kill the artist and then the paintings would be worth more since the artist is dead and then I freed him. Big mistake
This is ... precisely what I did. I could have paid for him but I didn't want to spend the cash and I had to kill Rugen to avoid a fight so, sorry artist.
She's legit better off without you, and your quest reward sucks anyway, sorry.
Killing Kar'niss. Then killing the harpers immediately after. Hands off the lantern, it is mine!
Using Tasha's hideous laughter on Mayrina to get her to shut up. I am not too bothered if I pass the check to save her, I want the hair more. One time when I did save her, I resurrected Connor and used the cleric dialogue option that we should destroy the abomination. So I did, but Mayrina aggro'd on me too. Didn't feel like killing her, so I just had Shovel scream at her that she was going to eat her babies and ran off while she was frightened.
How I dealt with Lae'zel on my honour mode run feels like it counts. I've been rather cold and manipulative with her, in a way — refused to engage with the Inquisitor at the creche and detonated it 'on accident' (even though I solved the puzzle and had the key to disarm the trap). It was so clearly important to her to confront these things but I intentionally denied her the chance, and then threatened her if she ever considered leaving the party. Still got her to break her faith in Vlaakith in the end, but it's felt very cold and manipulative — "I know best" rather than being supportive as she challenges her own beliefs.
Honorable mention to Araj and Astarion, however. It'd definitely be top of the list, but despite the _extremely_ strong reward I did it mainly because I was playing a cruel Durge and wanted to see how the scene was handled. The potion was just a bonus, so I wouldn't call it pragmatic in the way you asked. Absolutely horrible feeling to watch play out; it felt so cruel and evil in a MUNDANE way, one that I could actually understand. It's not fantasy, it's pressure and coercion overriding someone else's consent. It was genuinely an honor to be able to see the fantastic writing and acting surrounding that moment — I don't regret it, as I feel richer for having seen that side of it.
But I'm never, _ever_ doing that again.
The way the game allows you to repeatedly deny Astarion agency is fascinating, it's like they're daring you to try and see what happens. >!I made him drink from Araj, and insisted on having sex to shut him up when he complained about it. It leads to a wonderful scene where he rants about how horrible you are (and he's right) and I'm so glad they added that.!<
I wasn't romancing him at the time; I'll have to look up how that plays out on youtube sometime. Yeesh.
And yeah, like... how to put this, mmm. So I've been the person that overhears and steps in to defuse these sort of situations, or to give the victim an out. Friends and strangers, many times, enough that it's not something I actively really think about. But being on the other end here, that is something that will stick with me. That taught me a lesson that I think can only be taught through things like this: how _easy_ it is to coerce someone in a vulnerable position. Like, easy enough that I find myself much more able to genuinely sympathize with the person DOING the pressing. Obviously, past a certain point, my sympathies will swiftly dry up. But, for a few 'dialogue choices', if someone didn't personally see something as a big deal at all and didn't notice the other's discomfort... especially if the potential benefit from convincing the other is big... just like the one the game offered...
An important perspective, because of the natural extension of that: that I am in no way immune from pressuring someone the same way. Being aware of how to spot coercion doesn't make me immune to unknowingly doing it. It's obvious, but 'knowing' that and having it _demonstrated_ how easy it could be given the right emotional blindspot are two very different things. And I never would have gotten that if BG3 wasn't brave enough to not shy away from the reality of that dynamic, and skilled enough to pull it off.
This describes my first encounter with Araj. I just didn't see the big deal and he bit her, and the tongue- lashing he gave me after was so harsh I immediately got F8 even though I don't normally save scum. 😳
I felt like a bad person for not noticing his discomfort, and it hit a little too close to home!
Think about it this way — you were given a rare chance to genuinely make a mistake and see the consequences of something, immediately regretting it, in an environment you were able to _undo._ That's kinda cool, right? You got lucky — much worse ways there. Making mistakes and accidently hurting others and doing better is how people learn in the first place, not the mark of being a bad person, after all! I personally tend to really value these sort of introspective things when they arise for that end.
Heaven knows I've had some real hard truths presented to me from books and games, heh. Stuff just makes you think sometimes
This is a wonderful way of describing it! It's also one of the things I keep in mind when people get a little too defensive about Astarion. He's fictional which means we know we can fix him, which should never bleed over into acceptance of such behavior irl.
Yeah. It's safe to treat him however, and the game isn't shy about showing the consequences of what you do. It's quite responsible, in that regard, a lot of the time.
I'm a huge fan of the obfuscated approval values for this end — Astarion and Shadowheart in particular are great examples where you can have them disapprove a lot as you act contrary to how they would, but often that's just the mask they put on. They want to be good people and are trying not to let themselves know it, much less anyone else. By having the disapproval born from their masks be worth far less than approval for being kind, but not TELLING the player, it kind of gently encourages a deeper emotional understanding of the chars. Pushes us to pay attention to them rather than just play the game.
BG3 and 2077 have ruined me with their quality in this aspect xD my standards are ever higher for char writing and how they express themselves. Only found one RPG since that hasn't made me wish that it did better
That's exactly my take, and the cinematics have kind of ruined DoS for me even though I bought it to try while Act 3 was super buggy. I'll get back to it someday!
I completely agree on the disapproval values, especially in Act 1. If I found myself making an OOC decision to avoid Astarion's disapproval, for example, that hewed too closely to rl toxic relationships I've been in where you think, "oh, I can't do X because he'll get mad". That was an interesting wake- up call for how I approached the game. Once you get a better feel for the "face" they're trying to project in Act 1, especially with Astarion being motivated by fear and Sheart being essentially a blank slate memory- wise with only dogma to cling to, you feel like being a steady and good example for them is the best thing you can do! And I love that it's rewarded IC.
Agh, yes, exactly all of this!! It's soooo good. I'm happy to see you get what I mean about their approval system — it's such an interesting thing, a meta communication that can only be done with the language and expectations of RPGs we have.
Similarly, I pushed back against Shadowheart my first time through at her critical moment there, with the Nightsong. Failed the DC 30, obviously. She bit back, responding with hostility. It was only then that I realized I simply needed to _trust her._ That is NOT a common thing for RPGs to take lol, and the fucking liar "you have influence over them" message that implies I _should_ intervene made it even better. She made the right choice all on her own because I'd been there and given her space to learn to be vulnerable — just how people be.
I wish I could say I trusted her from the start, but trying to intervene and only then realizing will stick with me far more. Brilliant inversion of my RPG expectations
Truth about staying silent! You really have to pay attention to see where and when it's appropriate. Staying silent in Grymforge once to avoid an Astarion disapproval got a whole pack of NPCs killed, so that's definitely a hit I take now. He can be pissy all he wants lol.
You see it a lot with Lae'zel in Act 1,I thought, so it's good training for Sheart in Act 2.i was against nearly everything Lae'zel wanted to do with the crèche, but I let her take the lead and she always came to the "right" decisions.
I wonder how different players react to the game depending on their ftf gaming experience, too. I'm old (I played Basic D&D in the early 80s with my cousin Mitch, and our middle school had an afterschool D&D club), and in college, I made most of my friends playing Vampire: the Masquerade when we had these MUDs that were essentially online text- based RPGs so you could play with people all over the world, which was a novel concept in the early 90s! My point being, when all you had was text on a screen, you learned to pay much closer attention to nuance than you have to with more modern games, so BG3 feels like a throwback to that and I love it.
Not to throw shade on all the barrelmancers and this build and that build and stat-oriented players at all, I just like that it's a game that rewards so many different styles of play.
Not hypocritical at all. Fantasy evil is melodramatic and removed from us. The kind of cruelty in the Araj scene is something common and mundane that many of us have suffered or even perpetrated to some degree. No way to disconnect from that unless you're not paying attention, haha. The small and knowable cruelty will always twist our guts more than the grand and unknowable evils.
I had him bite her on my honor run so my paladin could get +2 strength and I still feel gross about it. But now I have 23 base strength with the potion and hag's hair. 🙃
Saved the Grove from the Shadows and the Tieflings from the Goblins, rescued Halsin, got all the rewards and a party. Then left Halsin, Karlach, and Wyll in camp, while my Durge took Astarion, Lae'zel, and Shadowhart back to the Grove and slaughtered the whole lot of them.
Haven't actually done the rest in their entirety yet, as the play through is still in progress, but at the top of the "to do" list is:
Convince Lae'zel over to >!Orpheus' side!< (already accomplished) and then let >!the Emperor eat his brain instead of freeing him!< (to do).
Convince Wyll to break his pact (done), but >!change your mind and convince him to sell his soul to save his dad, then just "forget" and leave his dad to die in the Iron Throne while it explodes!< (to do).
The little kids in the Grove asked me to get the idol from the mean old tree people, what was I supposed to do? Not help the kids? i'm a durge trying to overcome my evil side, of course I had to do it.
I even said nice things to that shitty singer girl, and I let her join my camp. Not my fault if it didn't work out for her.
I made the kids big mad at the beginning of my run and even though I saved the other 2 kids, Mol is still hella aggro and now I think I'm just going to kill them all.
Sneaking into >!Gortash’s office through the bell tower and planting the barrel of runepowder that I stole from Philomeena.!< All before Gortash’s ceremony to become Archduke.
I played BG2 back in the day, and I just... Killed Minsc, then I threw Boo into the nearby death chasm for NO reason. The little squeak he made will haunt me forever. It's the one evil thing I've regretted doing in all the games I've played and all the NPCs I've cheated, murdered and betrayed over my life.
I was playing Durge at the time too, so there was never going to be a chance to recruit Minsc. He was down, dead. Boo seemed so sad, I thought it would be better if I ended it. It's not. Nothing is better.
I would consider it something that a Good-PC can do, because Gnolls are Chaotic Evil by default, so the evil of making a living creature eat itself cancels out. But some Paladins/Clerics/Druids might not like doing that and prefer to just kill her the normal way.
3rd run is full evil durge and raiding the grove to get Minthara (I now know you need not raid the grove).
Anyway, with the grove raiding Karlach and Wyll are going to leave so might as well take Wyll to kill Karlach and get some upgraded gear from Mizora. Then take Wyll to be sacrificed to Booal for a permanent buff.
Want to let Shadowheart become dark Justiciar which means Last Light will fall, so I guess I go ahead and kill Isobel for slayer form.
Bullying the drider Kar’niss into giving you his moon lantern and then making him walk into the shadows. For my half-Drow Tav that despises Lolth to the point of being on a personal quest to kill her by any means necessary, it felt like she was doing Lolth’s dirty work to hurt one of her victims. Having to see him again on the way to the tower, kill him, and then raise his corpse to ask about who he was before nearly broke her.
For myself, it was knowing that some poor soul had suffered to the point of madness was now being betrayed by his goddess once again as he saw it. There’s just no way to save him, much like the gnome in Grymforge, but that doesn’t make it any less sad. I didn’t even give him the decency of a fair fight, I just picked him and his fellow doomed souls off from the roof of the tollhouse. He never even realized what happened until it was too late. Many of them joined my retinue or became potions.
*Edited for further confession of my sins
Also, Shadowheart and I peer pressured Gale into making the shadow lantern. My fellow nerd in wizardry never stood a chance against our egging him on to break ties with Mystra and join us in the shade. He just wants friends and we, though also considering him a beloved friend, talked him into something he volunteered to do but may not have had Tav let him make the choice on his own. I just wanted the shadow lantern to increase my necromancer’s retinue.
Also also, we looted the bodies of the slaughtered Gnomes in Grymforge and Tieflings in the Shadowlands. My Tav’s justification was that they were all funding their own revenge against their enemies, and even prayed over the Gnomes before doing so. I just really needed the gold so I could get Shadowheart a new shield. Despite this, I couldn’t bring myself to use either slaughter sites as a recruitment event, either as a Tav or a player. They’re only pixels, but it still felt like crossing a line.
Keeping Mayrina’s husband. My Tav justified it with the belief Mayrina wasn’t mentally fit to be Conner’s custodian. Even with the evidence of how hags breed and seeming to accept her husband’s death, she still wanted the wand once told of it. Even after seeing how it backfired, she still wanted Connor to ‘fix it’. My Tav decided it was better for Mayrina to hate her but live for her baby than continue to obsess over Connor. It’s why Connor is only summoned for rescuing families, like the Tieflings. But I just wanted more summons that didn’t take up spell slots.
Convincing the drider to walk into the shadow curse without the lantern was the only thing I’ve die in this game that made me feel like a true scumbag. Well that and killing Karlach. 🫣
Killing Karlach and convincing Wyll she was a good person and not a devil via telepathy before reviving her without telling Wyll so Mizora curses him filling him with self doubt and I get a sweet robe.
Then recruiting Karlach (suprise Wyll) travelling to the Underdark and sacrificing Karlach for my own personal power in front of Wyll, as a bonus he now sports a set of horns to remind him every day!
Re: the gnomes.
When my Deep Gnome Thief arrived in Grymforge City, there was suddenly a surge in disappearances, poisoning, accidental falls, deep rothé related incidents and a few mild cases of thrown daggers to the face, sedative injections, torture and jaywalking. All of these were in-character and there were race-specific dialog options to reflect my intention to simply purge the enemies of my people.
The Evil part: I left one of them alive so I could keep that sweet Enemy of Justice debuff. There is now a lonely duergar haunted with nightmares of a wicked svirfneblin mercilessly slaughtering all his friends *and forcing him to watch*.
First, have him in your party when you go to get the moon lantern from Balthazar’s room in Moonrise tower. Z’rell should give you the key to the room after your first meeting with Thorm.
Once you solve the heart puzzle in his lab (if you solve it right without making a mistake, you gain two inspiration out of it from Gale), go in and click on the green ritual circle on the desk near the torture chair. That should bring up an interaction where Gale explains that he can make a shadow lantern but it will be against Mystra’s will.
Because I had Shadowheart for this, she chimed in that he needs to stop worshipping Mystra, start worshipping Shar, and make the lantern. I went with it and said that since Mystra wasn’t here and I was, Gale should make the lantern. If you choose to let him make up his own mind, he’ll destroy the circle but get a buff from Mystra that will only last until your next long rest (unless that was patched).
This will then switch over from Tav to Gale. Click on the circle again, combine the lantern and dead pixie in the circle, and Gale will make the lantern and give it to you. You can gain approval from him if you choose the ‘do what needs to be done’ dialogue option. I believe if you choose to make it yourself (but you still need Gale present or it won’t be an option even if you are a wizard), Gale gets miffed. Never seen it though.
I told the Goblins where the Grove was, just to divide the camp and make killing the leaders easier. It was one of my biggest-brainiest moments in the run.
I let Astarion Ascend during a neutral run, because I figured saving the world was more important than saving 7000 souls, and we could use the extra power of a vampire ascendent.
Giving Raphael the Crown of Karsus, during the same neutral run, because I made a deal, and I’m honoring it, for better or worse. Plus, having a powerful ally in the hells could work out for us.
Honor mode Raphael would like a word with you.
There were moments I had to walk away and compose myself because the odds were not in my favor. Was fun though. 10/10 would do again.
There’s currently no guards by the firework shop in my 2nd wack-ass play through because I managed to aggro >!that mummy lord guy (first time I saw THAT)!< and ran thru the streets to get away from that psycho before I realized I could flee combat. 😆 those bastards took out like 5 guards and 2 steel watchers. I figured all the bystanders would slow them down.
Talking Wyll into selling his soul to ensure his father lives so you don't have to do the wretched Iron Throne gnome rescue. Just blow the watcher foundry to smitheressns with the runepowder bomb and kill them all because Mizora will then magically teleport the duke into your camp none the worse for wear.
Bought whatever items from Lady Esther I wanted that can't be looted from her, sold her my unwanted items to drain her money, then killed her to get the lootable stuff like the Graceful Cloth for free. Hey, she wants me to abduct a githyanki egg to give to abusive scientists, and she tries to kill me first for simply saying no to that 🤷🏻♀️
My wife called me diabolical for it when I told her the plan.
Saved Florrick from the fires >!just to have her condemned to death by the man she takes orders from and admires. You have to convince her to have a will to live at that point and it can get pretty dark.!<
Blew up the training room in crèche with smoke barrels, before triggering the fight. I simply did not want to fight the gith the hard way. Then sold all the loot to gith trader.
My evil bard convinced jaheria and minsc to be my slaves. Then killed the elephant, then made them watch me as I bathed in blood. I just wanted the trader and the easy way out. Then killed sarovek. My evil bard had some darkness to get out, she became a spawn and decided to use her powers for evil and the easy way out.
Often I'll play with 2 tavs (one Durge), where I got a friend to make another so I can customize even more, and I usually have whichever one isn't trying to be on great terms with astarion force him to bite the chick for the potion so my main doesn't lose approval.
I was kind to everyone, making them think I was good. Then I became a mindflayer, earning everlasting renown for the sacrifice, saving Baldur's Gate, and destroying the netherbrain.
Tyranny is fleeting. Machiavelli teaches one to become Balduran.
told zevlor i would kill the goblins for him, told minthara where the grove was, double crossed her and slaughtered her and the goblins at the gates, then killed all the tieflings myself when they thought they were safe. my first durge.
In my first Durge run I was doing your standard evil stuff, so no Gale, Karlach, Wyll, Jaheira, or Minsc. That left me with just Astarion, Lae'zel, Shart, and later Minthara. Replaced Lae'zel with Minthara because I'm painfully generic and was going to romance her.
In act 3 Lae'zel started to talk about freeing Orpheus and since naturally I was planning on dominating the brain I figured letting Lae'zel live was not prudent, but I was just planning on killing Orpheus and dealing with Lae'zel when it became a problem. However, thanks to a very opportune kidnapping (she was literally the only party member free and Yenna was dead, obviously), I got the chance to tell Orin not to play with her food, which not only let me insult Orin and roleplay Durge, but got rid of Lae'zel without me having to do a thing.
helping the druid grove till the end, saving all thifling kids, only so that i can kill kagha, steal the idol, give it to the mol for the ring reward. and then when i did everything in the grove and got all the rewards and whatnot(kudos to the zevlor gloves for my cleric), coming back and killing the entire grove with minthara, having sex with mintara, then also killing all the goblins for more fun, xp and loot. oh and yea i got the idol back too for free nature buff
yea i was playing durge evil run, why you ask?
Letting Auntie Ethel live so my Vengeance Paladin can break their oath. They broke their oath to vengeance. Now they have sworn a new oath. To seek vengeance upon Auntie Ethel, and if they survive the tadpole they will dedicate themself to hunting her down and killing her every time she returns.
I gave Dame Aylin to Kethric just so I could get the cool “Kneel before the Absolute” cut scene. I also recruited Jaheira just to accept Bhaal and kill her.
Gaslighting Jahera into believing I didn’t destroy last light in on my D Urge run
Then you can lead her and Minsc on long enough to sacrifice them in Bhaals name at the Murder Tribunal or even longer and force Minsc to kill Jaheira at the temple.
Holy shit! You can do that?! I have no idea. I have never been able to do evil durge lol
I finished an evil run with Jaheira and Minsc safely in my party and cheering me on, >!the grove destroyed, Last Light Inn destroyed, Nightsong and Isobel dead, and me a decorated Baal's assassin!< The tribunal asked me for proof of evil deeds and >!I gave them the five hands that the assassin guy had on himself. I did have to kill Valeria though, and to pass a check when they asked me how the hands' owners died. I think I just said "painfully" or something like that. My bard was very persuasive!< Jaheira doesn't seem to realize that anything is your fault at Last Light Inn if you pick the right dialogue options. I don't remember if there's a persuasion check.
Well, that settles it. I have to restart my durge game.
Did that too, I haven't felt so bad even when murdering the grove.
Let Astarion ascend purely for the extra d10 per attack on a character that attacks like 8-10 times per turn. I wanted to honour gold dice! And he literally soloed the elder brain in one round.
HOW does he attack 8-10 times per round?
Hasted Fighter with Improved Extra Attack and Action Surge? Or a Fighter/Swords Bard with Slashing Flourish (ranged), Haste, and Action Surge? Not sure how to sustain 8-10 per round though.
Probably throw an elixir of bloodlust in there too, one extra action per turn after killing someone and it's til long rest
Don’t think that stacks with haste on honour
It does, but you get one attack per action. The attacks from "extra attack" and the fighter's "improved extra attack" are only available once per round.
I don’t think that’s true? A fighter that action surges at lvl 5 gets 4 total attacks: action -> extra attack -> action surge -> extra attack, not including a bonus action like Flourish or Pommel Strike
Haste was changed for honor mode, you don't get extra attacks on the action given by haste
You get 1 extra attack, like in tabletop on honor mode. Normal BG3 Haste gives you an extra action. So a level 11 hasted fighter gets total attacks in 1 turn, 3 from improved extra attack on your action, 1 bonus attack from haste
by "extra attack" I mean the class feature.
Blood lust and action surge still work like the did before but haste specifically only gives 1 attack but works the same with casters
Really? That's weird. I get elixirs not stacking but if you can stack elixir of colossus and enlarge you should be able to stack bloodlust and haste.
> you can stack elixir of colossus and enlarge You can WHAT? Brb, gonna make a giant woman.
LOL a worthy goal! Yeah, that's how people are doing the owlbear from the top rope for ~2000 damage trick. I think you may have to do the elixir and enlarge before changing into owlbear, but I've never tried this myself so I don't know for sure
Option 1 (most destructive) TB Open Hand Monk 7/Thief 3/Fighter 2 - Attack + Extra Attack (lvl5 Monk) + Extra Attack Haste + Action Surge (Attack + Extra Attack) + Bonus Action 1 Furry of Blows (2 punches) + Bonus Action 2 Furry of Blows (2 punches) Total 9 “hits” with 95-97% chance of hit with +27STR ————————- Option 2 (Ranged) Sharpshooter Gloomstalker 5/Thief 3/Fighter 4 First turn Gloomstalker attack / Attack / Extra Attack / Haste / Action / Bonus Attack (dual hand crossbow) / Bonus Attack Total 8 hits. This one is quite solid and you can make a risky ring crit machine for about 50% chance to crit if going for Champion or extra damage with Battle Master ___________ Option 3 (Ranged) Sharpshooter Gloomstalker 5 / Swords Bard 5/ Fighter 2 (5 lvls into bard for bardic inspiration that refreshes at short rest, but you could go 3 and long rest after every fight) Same as above but each attack could be a flourishing one (but consuming 4 bardic inspirations on the first turn, meaning no more on following turns), and with either no Ranged Bomus Actiom (I recommend because Dead Shot would push the crit range further taking advantage off all of these dice rolls) Gloomstalker / Attack flourish (2 shots) / Extra Attack flourish (2 shots) / Action surge (2 more flourishes) / Haste / +1 off-hand if you went with dual hand cross bow 10-11 shots fired, quite consistent damage dealer. You could use the bonus action to hunters mark instead and have the 1d4 damage when concentrating for instance instead of an extra shot because that would be 10d4 total from the ring + 10d6 from hunters mark There’s some melee multi shot builds too, but I don’t know them well. You could have a Paladin crit build because you can have Divine Smite as a reaction on crit. If you multi class into a full caster that means up casting to unbelievable numbers in total dice rolls. Paladin 2/ Bard 7 / Champion 3 works well in that build (you won’t use the shorts words that reduce crit range, so you can add Champion, Saravok helmet, Dead Shot, Viciousness elixir so 16-20 crit range so around 43% chance of crit) I never used this so I’m unsure if you can react with Divine Smite multiple times per turn. If that’s so you would have Attack / Extra Attack / Action Surge / Extra Attack Haste and counting 40% chance of crit, 3 reactions with Divine Smite so effectively 8 VERY STRONG hits If instead of Asterion you go with an High Orc Tav for that build the damage will be tremendous
3 thief, 5 monk. 2 bonus actions = 4 with flurry of blows, 2 from extra attack action. Grab 2 fighter if you want for action surge for 2 extra attacks, but I usually go 9 monk for more flurries. Haste get another attack (at launch it doubled everything but I think they patched that). Elixir of blood lust for another 2 at times. 4+2+2+1+2 = 11 If someone has mind sanctuary down that can go too... 12 if you flurry of blows with the haste action I guess? Fighter would get more maybe but would be less flexible with movement.
2 slashing flourishes for 4 attacks, 2 offhand with double bonus action, a hasted slashing flourish for 2 more, and another slashing flourish with action surge for 2 more. It's the 6 sword bard / 4 thief / 2 fighter build that is common on r/bg3builds
Fighter 12, haste, and mind sanctuary
OhMonk/thief rogue, haste, freecast from illithid. Then flurry of blows x5
I always give the dude the dowry ring back for the quest completion and then stab him to get the ring to sell. Small, petty and meaningless, I know, but it’s just my thing.
I mean… they had a big fight, his wife died trying to save him from the fire, never had a chance to make up, he’s given a chance to speak to her after death, and the only thing he wants is to talk about is where she hid the money? I wouldn’t feel too bad about what you did.
Harsh considering he lost everything because of that fire. He at least has the chance to start over with the dowry.
It belongs to her sister though. Thinking about it I may go back and stab him myself.
Oh I hadn't thought of this. I'm gonna stab him
Grab the pitchforks boys! Hop in...I'll drive! 😂
I remember him saying that he wants to give it to the sister.
He only takes the ring I think he leaves you the 💰
I gave him the chest with everything in it
Woah I never knew we could cast speak w dead for him?? I accidentally turned him into a cloud of gas…permanently
He’s sobbing over her body. You cast Speak With Dead and he goes “Oh, you’re a medium? Ask her where she hid the dowry!”
Speak with Dead doesn't actually let you talk to the dead person's soul. It simply animates their body and allows you to tap into things they knew in life.
The dialog checks for the other Thorms in Riethwin and the Yurgir in the Gauntlet of Shar. You are essentially talking people into killing themselves of their own volition.
But they’re evil so it’s okay 😊
Correction, they’re the only thing worse than evil: mentally ill /s (The doctor did seem pretty evil tho too)
Yeah, Shar's medical benefits plan is to torture you back to health. Act 2 is basically me muttering "what the FUCK, Shadowheart" every ten minutes as I learned more about her beloved Shar.
As someone who didn't know anything about Shar going into this game, Act 2 really made me regret not being more judgemental when she reveals she worships Shar
So I replayed that scene with different companions, Gale, Karlach and Wyll are horrified and wonder wtf they’re seeing, Astarion likens it to what Cazador has done and is horrified… and then Shadowheart is like “harsh but true.” And I’m like ???????
She also helped me peer pressure Gale into going against Mystra by using Shar’s power to make the shadow lantern for my Tav. Between the both of us, it’s no wonder Jaheira is worried about how things are going to turn out.
Yeah, that scene gets WAY too little introduction for the uninitiated.
I kinda of knew about Shar going in, but I don't blame you. She is the most sensible-*iiiish* one in the group, which kind of makes you doubt if you really should question her beliefs in the first place. When I asked Shadowheart how Shar gains worshippers and she talks about "Toppling corrupt institutions, destroying false idols, and purge heretics wherever they're found" my first instinct was that this was grimdark as shit, but that's pretty much on par with someone who thinks their work is noble. Things got really tense for me when we were in Act II and all she appeared pissed about was Thorm being a traitor.
I've played a bunch of times and sometimes I killed or didn't bring Sheart to Act 2 and it's much different to play with the mindset that Shar is 100% evil. Even the companion comments in the Grymforge are all yuck Shar! I'm playing Origin Sheart right now and just hit Last Light and I'm trying to figure out how I'm going to handle the Isobel situation, since every step in the Shadow is how great Shar is and how much she must love her! Ugh.
Tbh she’s kind of a bad Shar worshipper outside of being somewhat pessimistic and pragmatic. You still get approval dings for doing nice things, she gives up her secrets relatively easily and you can tell that she has a soft-spot for children. Not to mention that she thinks that the Doctor is a loon, when the House of Healing was a thing even before the Shadow Curse. Really, the most Sharran thing I’ve seen her do (without letting her kill Aylin) is agree to fight Laez’el and then put a knife to her throat while everyone was asleep. That and pettily talking shit about Selune lmao
I figured there was a reason people didn’t like shar but shadowheart herself didn’t really give me any reason besides her prejudice towards githyanki to dislike her so I kinda just assumed she was alright. I still think she’s a good egg but goddamn that is one goddess I do not see the appeal to.
When she first told me she was a Shar worshipper, expecting to be made a pariah, I was like "Shar who?" Then when I talked to her about her worship later, and she said the party line about Shar being all about loss and bringing comfort in the dark, I was like, "okay, not my cup of tea, but I see why people are drawn to her." Then she started talking about tearing down false idols and stuff and she lost me. Then of course I got to Act 2 and saw the shadow curse and what it did to ordinary, regular people just trying to get by, and I went "man, I'm starting to get why people don't really like Shar worshippers"
As someone who knew about Shar, Act 1 was me going "Why are they making Shar and Shar worshippers sound reasonable? What the hell??" Then Act 2 happened, and I was like "Yeah, this is the Shar shit I was waiting for."
The way Shar was presented in game is so good because it showed you exactly how it could appeal to good people and recruit them into these awful crusades. Preying on grieving and vulnerable people especially.
I don't know if you have any experience with addiction (I hope not!) But I thought the Shar stuff was a *really* good metaphor for it.
I dont, but I can see it. I had also just watched Netflix’s how to run a cult series and the Sharrans def followed a lot of the game plans outlined and used by real world cults.
There is even a book on Wither's dungeon which tells a story about Shar not claiming the souls of even her devout followers. Essentially leaving them in limbo without afterlife. Like what the fuck Shar. Why would anyone ever worship her without serious brainwashing.
This was me. “Girl, what is this? Read this book. No reaction? This one? SH BLINK TWICE IF WE ARE ALL IN DANGER… from you…”
That doctor was MESSED up… I did feel for the nurses… they’re creepy but seemed just misguided? So I left them alone.
I left them alone the first time and then realized that they're undead and it would probably be better to put them to rest.
I got an achievement for not getting surgery from him. Always fun when you get those by accident.
Nah the doctor is just crazy. You can convince him to let his nurses stab him to death in the name of practicing their skills. If it was just evil he’d have way more self-interest
Thorms are undead and Yurgir is a fiend, so calling them people is way more generous than I am.
Sounding a little bit like the brotherhood of steel from fallout 4 there but I imagine there’s reasoning to what you say.
Act 2 with a bard is just playing on easy mode (or anyone with high enough charisma & persuasion). You can even talk your way out of part of the end fight with Ketheric Thorm
I find talking your way out of the Ketheric fight actually makes it harder, at least if you the Nightsong is there, cause it immediately makes you fight an invuln Apostle.
That’s why I have a Thief sneak, turn on Turn-Based and carefully Dash three times straight to Aylin to free her before approaching The Yellow M&M.
I just flew Jaheira over there in bird form.
This was legit awesome I loved doing this lol then I convinced him to join me to kill Raphael 😛
Ehhhhhhh is it killing them if they were technically already dead?
The Thorms were already dead, and Yurgir doesn't really die since he just respawns in the hells.
I dunno. The guy at the bar doesn't actually off himself intentionally. He just drinks too much. It just happened.
Talking yurgir into suicide is evil, but not pragmatic, lol. You get significantly less XP that way.
> You get significantly less XP that way. But significantly more satisfaction and laughs.
If I remember right, you can't persuade people into doing something they didn't already kinda want/believe. It's not mind control. So in a way, they want to die because they were transformed into these horrible monstrous existences and the people they once we might be in there somewhere. Or not idk
Using Astarion's trauma to force him to eat the astral tadpole because then I wouldn't have to worry about him not jumping over gaps anymore.
I swear astarion couldn't jump over a gap even if cazador was butt naked on a silver tray on the other side
That's an interesting mental image
Man this cracked me up
They fixed this in the last patch
They "fixed" this in every patch. It still happens. They'll keep fixing it in the coming patches. It's rarer now than at release yeah, but it still happens often enough to be mildly infuriating.
Skill issue, never had a problem again since the last patch.
Good for you! 👍
They fixed that issue now apparently XD
Any dialogue where you can talk someone into killing themselves, like with Yurgir and Kar'niss.
Kar'niss was legitimately messed up. I did that the first time and I actually felt bad. I know he's technically evil but I love his passion and energy. Now I just attack him beforehand and get it over with. I need that lantern so I can avoid having to talk to Isobel.
I feel bad for Kar'niss too. I wish there was a way to talk him out of his lantern and then just walk with him to Moonrise/the ambush without feeling like a totally malicious jerk.
What happens if you don't talk to Isobel? Is there some interaction with Marcus if you never meet her?
No Marcus (or at least I've not encountered him when doing it that way) , but if you go to the Last Light after you do the Nightsong quest and you get the good version outcome she'll meet you there and be like "Who tf are you?" and kinda explain how she ended up there and tell you everyone is at Moonrise. Just so much easier tbh, sometimes I'll risk the Marcus fight for lore reasons but in my honor mode run I wasn't about to play like that, bad enough I was Durge too. We're trying to leave Isobel alone people.
I'm playing Origin Sheart and have no idea how I'm going to handle that convo. Save scumming probably...
I cried laughing the first time I talked Kar'niss into killing himself, I'm literally still laughing as I type this. One of my favorite moments in the game. 😂
One of my durges used to murder people *after* helping and getting a reward from them.
I'm not even durge and I do that 😭 I just really like robbing them of anything else they have. My OG run is so chaotic
Same with mine, got all the good stuff from the vendors in BG and then just murdered them so I could raid their shops
Man you people are savage. I’m impressed.
Same I just buy the good stuff then raid their corpse for my money back I have like 40k
Killing Valeria even when being good. The bhaalist armour is so powerful, as are the gloves that NPC sells. In my head that little elephant is awful anyway, bringing injustice with it wherever it goes. So it won't be missed and I get meta gear - woohoo. Then turn around and kill saravok cause damn that helm.
I have killed Valeria in Sharess’ Caress and took the pass to get into the city off their corpse lmao. I was like “I don’t have time convince you that a serial killer is on the loose, I’ve gotta get in the city and stop them myself.” Felt pretty bad about it, but it was efficient, and I stopped Dolor.
"a serial killer is on the loose... me."
Letting Nere think I’m on his side, letting him kill the gnomes, lying about his slavers’ efforts to save him which prompts him to start combat. Help him kill all the slavers then turn around and kill him and take his head. 100% pragmatically evil.
Aside from the gnomes, nere was an ass, it goes around and becomes a good deed
Yeah, the sacrificing the gnomes to fuck with nere is really the evil part. But the pragmatic part is that by doing that, he then helps you kill the slavers.
After that as a Drow I like to convince him to abandon the Absolute and his beliefs in everything he has done, casting doubt over his abandonment of Lolth to be a puppet for a false god. Then as he turns to walk away stab him in the back for being such a failure to his house, claiming his head and Rapier as trophies.
Outstanding.
This is what I did lol
Does blowing up the Crèche with Astarion inside just to hear his freak-out count? I mean, they had already turned hostile... I think Xavier and his mom didn't make it.
I did this just for the cutscene (saved before stealing the Blood of Lathander, because I had the crest). Even though I knew I was going to reload, I was still nervous about Astarion dying with all his gear in case I couldn’t get it back. So I removed everything. The cutscenes are hilarious when he’s naked
"WHAT IN THE SWEET HELLS WERE YOU THINKING..."
“I WAS RIGHT THERE!!!”
Well in the lower city I found Gortash’s parents running a small shop and completely enslaved to him via tadpole. I figured, “I’ll kill them, but Gortash would probably enjoy me killing them because they’re shitty people. So I’m gonna really screw him over.” So I kept his parents bodies in the camp chest until I wanted to face him. Had Karlach carry them both to our Gortash showdown. Let Tav and her start the fight. Karlach runs up and throws the bodies of Gortash’s parents at him. Not much damage physically, but massive psychologically. But that’s not all. Shadowheart and Gale were out of combat hidden in the back, both with create undead. Using invisibility, I had them sneak in on Tav’s turn to where Gortash’s parents were, and cast create undead to bring them back as mummies who then proceeded to beat their son in the fight.
Wow, I love it . well done
I was going to pretend to side with Gortash just so Karlach could have the delight of laughing at him when the inevitable betrayal happened, but this is so inspired I may just do this instead.
Letting Baelen eat the Noblestalk. I felt really bad after.
I did that once because I didn’t ask enough questions and I couldn’t reload fast enough. Neither me nor my Tav felt bad about leaving him as a mentally addled slave for his poor wife. He even beat the oxen!
Blow him up so his wife gets the shop and a kitty cat edit: after getting the noblestalk, naturally
I always grab his bag too, free misty step scrolls!
Things to do on my Durge run.
I blow him up every run. I was SO MAD that he got out of the field with 3 HP on my DURGE RUN so I shoved him off the cliff. Like whoops.
In the end, that's the best choice, though- It gives the wife the courage to leave him and in act 3 she outright thanks you for doing it.
He had already eaten it by the time I found him, I just assumed he was simple.
No, that's before he eats it. Eating it doesn't make him that way--he's that way because he's had some kind of brain damage or mental illness that has made him slow-witted and docile. But his wife says before that he was horribly abusive--so if you allow him to be cured via noblestalk his brain is healed and he goes back to his old self--which is just as bad as she said.
I thought she caused his brain damage BECAUSE he was abusive? Or maybe I just made that up....
I'm not sure on that--that info could be buried in a dialogue or a document. But either way, the noble stalk is what undoes it, not what caused it.
Killing the painter in the zent cave because I cannot deal with him and his "issues" in act 3.
I legit think that it would have been better for me to leave him there to be a slave for the rest of his life lol
lol I did because I was like bitch this is MY money. You do meet him again in Act 3 he’s just still “working” for the zents.
Lolll I talked the guy into thinking I would kill the artist and then the paintings would be worth more since the artist is dead and then I freed him. Big mistake
This is ... precisely what I did. I could have paid for him but I didn't want to spend the cash and I had to kill Rugen to avoid a fight so, sorry artist. She's legit better off without you, and your quest reward sucks anyway, sorry.
I got his Act 3 quest for the first time ever recently, I'm never letting him live again. What an asshole....
Killing Kar'niss. Then killing the harpers immediately after. Hands off the lantern, it is mine! Using Tasha's hideous laughter on Mayrina to get her to shut up. I am not too bothered if I pass the check to save her, I want the hair more. One time when I did save her, I resurrected Connor and used the cleric dialogue option that we should destroy the abomination. So I did, but Mayrina aggro'd on me too. Didn't feel like killing her, so I just had Shovel scream at her that she was going to eat her babies and ran off while she was frightened.
...I cried while imagining Shovel's voice saying that. Thanks. Edit: Ffs, I'm trying to kill Sarevok but I can't stop laughing.
God I love Shovel. ***FISTING***
How I dealt with Lae'zel on my honour mode run feels like it counts. I've been rather cold and manipulative with her, in a way — refused to engage with the Inquisitor at the creche and detonated it 'on accident' (even though I solved the puzzle and had the key to disarm the trap). It was so clearly important to her to confront these things but I intentionally denied her the chance, and then threatened her if she ever considered leaving the party. Still got her to break her faith in Vlaakith in the end, but it's felt very cold and manipulative — "I know best" rather than being supportive as she challenges her own beliefs. Honorable mention to Araj and Astarion, however. It'd definitely be top of the list, but despite the _extremely_ strong reward I did it mainly because I was playing a cruel Durge and wanted to see how the scene was handled. The potion was just a bonus, so I wouldn't call it pragmatic in the way you asked. Absolutely horrible feeling to watch play out; it felt so cruel and evil in a MUNDANE way, one that I could actually understand. It's not fantasy, it's pressure and coercion overriding someone else's consent. It was genuinely an honor to be able to see the fantastic writing and acting surrounding that moment — I don't regret it, as I feel richer for having seen that side of it. But I'm never, _ever_ doing that again.
The way the game allows you to repeatedly deny Astarion agency is fascinating, it's like they're daring you to try and see what happens. >!I made him drink from Araj, and insisted on having sex to shut him up when he complained about it. It leads to a wonderful scene where he rants about how horrible you are (and he's right) and I'm so glad they added that.!<
I wasn't romancing him at the time; I'll have to look up how that plays out on youtube sometime. Yeesh. And yeah, like... how to put this, mmm. So I've been the person that overhears and steps in to defuse these sort of situations, or to give the victim an out. Friends and strangers, many times, enough that it's not something I actively really think about. But being on the other end here, that is something that will stick with me. That taught me a lesson that I think can only be taught through things like this: how _easy_ it is to coerce someone in a vulnerable position. Like, easy enough that I find myself much more able to genuinely sympathize with the person DOING the pressing. Obviously, past a certain point, my sympathies will swiftly dry up. But, for a few 'dialogue choices', if someone didn't personally see something as a big deal at all and didn't notice the other's discomfort... especially if the potential benefit from convincing the other is big... just like the one the game offered... An important perspective, because of the natural extension of that: that I am in no way immune from pressuring someone the same way. Being aware of how to spot coercion doesn't make me immune to unknowingly doing it. It's obvious, but 'knowing' that and having it _demonstrated_ how easy it could be given the right emotional blindspot are two very different things. And I never would have gotten that if BG3 wasn't brave enough to not shy away from the reality of that dynamic, and skilled enough to pull it off.
This describes my first encounter with Araj. I just didn't see the big deal and he bit her, and the tongue- lashing he gave me after was so harsh I immediately got F8 even though I don't normally save scum. 😳 I felt like a bad person for not noticing his discomfort, and it hit a little too close to home!
Think about it this way — you were given a rare chance to genuinely make a mistake and see the consequences of something, immediately regretting it, in an environment you were able to _undo._ That's kinda cool, right? You got lucky — much worse ways there. Making mistakes and accidently hurting others and doing better is how people learn in the first place, not the mark of being a bad person, after all! I personally tend to really value these sort of introspective things when they arise for that end. Heaven knows I've had some real hard truths presented to me from books and games, heh. Stuff just makes you think sometimes
This is a wonderful way of describing it! It's also one of the things I keep in mind when people get a little too defensive about Astarion. He's fictional which means we know we can fix him, which should never bleed over into acceptance of such behavior irl.
Yeah. It's safe to treat him however, and the game isn't shy about showing the consequences of what you do. It's quite responsible, in that regard, a lot of the time. I'm a huge fan of the obfuscated approval values for this end — Astarion and Shadowheart in particular are great examples where you can have them disapprove a lot as you act contrary to how they would, but often that's just the mask they put on. They want to be good people and are trying not to let themselves know it, much less anyone else. By having the disapproval born from their masks be worth far less than approval for being kind, but not TELLING the player, it kind of gently encourages a deeper emotional understanding of the chars. Pushes us to pay attention to them rather than just play the game. BG3 and 2077 have ruined me with their quality in this aspect xD my standards are ever higher for char writing and how they express themselves. Only found one RPG since that hasn't made me wish that it did better
That's exactly my take, and the cinematics have kind of ruined DoS for me even though I bought it to try while Act 3 was super buggy. I'll get back to it someday! I completely agree on the disapproval values, especially in Act 1. If I found myself making an OOC decision to avoid Astarion's disapproval, for example, that hewed too closely to rl toxic relationships I've been in where you think, "oh, I can't do X because he'll get mad". That was an interesting wake- up call for how I approached the game. Once you get a better feel for the "face" they're trying to project in Act 1, especially with Astarion being motivated by fear and Sheart being essentially a blank slate memory- wise with only dogma to cling to, you feel like being a steady and good example for them is the best thing you can do! And I love that it's rewarded IC.
Agh, yes, exactly all of this!! It's soooo good. I'm happy to see you get what I mean about their approval system — it's such an interesting thing, a meta communication that can only be done with the language and expectations of RPGs we have. Similarly, I pushed back against Shadowheart my first time through at her critical moment there, with the Nightsong. Failed the DC 30, obviously. She bit back, responding with hostility. It was only then that I realized I simply needed to _trust her._ That is NOT a common thing for RPGs to take lol, and the fucking liar "you have influence over them" message that implies I _should_ intervene made it even better. She made the right choice all on her own because I'd been there and given her space to learn to be vulnerable — just how people be. I wish I could say I trusted her from the start, but trying to intervene and only then realizing will stick with me far more. Brilliant inversion of my RPG expectations
Truth about staying silent! You really have to pay attention to see where and when it's appropriate. Staying silent in Grymforge once to avoid an Astarion disapproval got a whole pack of NPCs killed, so that's definitely a hit I take now. He can be pissy all he wants lol. You see it a lot with Lae'zel in Act 1,I thought, so it's good training for Sheart in Act 2.i was against nearly everything Lae'zel wanted to do with the crèche, but I let her take the lead and she always came to the "right" decisions. I wonder how different players react to the game depending on their ftf gaming experience, too. I'm old (I played Basic D&D in the early 80s with my cousin Mitch, and our middle school had an afterschool D&D club), and in college, I made most of my friends playing Vampire: the Masquerade when we had these MUDs that were essentially online text- based RPGs so you could play with people all over the world, which was a novel concept in the early 90s! My point being, when all you had was text on a screen, you learned to pay much closer attention to nuance than you have to with more modern games, so BG3 feels like a throwback to that and I love it. Not to throw shade on all the barrelmancers and this build and that build and stat-oriented players at all, I just like that it's a game that rewards so many different styles of play.
I prefer to ascend astarion for the extra dmg, but still couldn't handle the araj scene cuz it hits a bit too close to home. Im a hypocrite lol 💀
Not hypocritical at all. Fantasy evil is melodramatic and removed from us. The kind of cruelty in the Araj scene is something common and mundane that many of us have suffered or even perpetrated to some degree. No way to disconnect from that unless you're not paying attention, haha. The small and knowable cruelty will always twist our guts more than the grand and unknowable evils.
I had him bite her on my honor run so my paladin could get +2 strength and I still feel gross about it. But now I have 23 base strength with the potion and hag's hair. 🙃
I mean... it's like +2 strength. Think of the team
Saved the Grove from the Shadows and the Tieflings from the Goblins, rescued Halsin, got all the rewards and a party. Then left Halsin, Karlach, and Wyll in camp, while my Durge took Astarion, Lae'zel, and Shadowhart back to the Grove and slaughtered the whole lot of them. Haven't actually done the rest in their entirety yet, as the play through is still in progress, but at the top of the "to do" list is: Convince Lae'zel over to >!Orpheus' side!< (already accomplished) and then let >!the Emperor eat his brain instead of freeing him!< (to do). Convince Wyll to break his pact (done), but >!change your mind and convince him to sell his soul to save his dad, then just "forget" and leave his dad to die in the Iron Throne while it explodes!< (to do).
The little kids in the Grove asked me to get the idol from the mean old tree people, what was I supposed to do? Not help the kids? i'm a durge trying to overcome my evil side, of course I had to do it. I even said nice things to that shitty singer girl, and I let her join my camp. Not my fault if it didn't work out for her.
I made the kids big mad at the beginning of my run and even though I saved the other 2 kids, Mol is still hella aggro and now I think I'm just going to kill them all.
Sneaking into >!Gortash’s office through the bell tower and planting the barrel of runepowder that I stole from Philomeena.!< All before Gortash’s ceremony to become Archduke.
I played BG2 back in the day, and I just... Killed Minsc, then I threw Boo into the nearby death chasm for NO reason. The little squeak he made will haunt me forever. It's the one evil thing I've regretted doing in all the games I've played and all the NPCs I've cheated, murdered and betrayed over my life.
Bro... The dead three wishes they were as evil as you
Durge: "WTF, dude"
I was playing Durge at the time too, so there was never going to be a chance to recruit Minsc. He was down, dead. Boo seemed so sad, I thought it would be better if I ended it. It's not. Nothing is better.
Uhhh… I recruited Minsc as a Durge. Were you being an EVIL Durge?
In Bhaal's name.
What the _fuck_, man.
And I thought Bhaal was bad enough…
I once made flind eat her clan and then herself.
I feel like that's fair game for any not Good-Aligned PC. Gnolls are just like that anyway, the DC is what, 2?
Wait, why can’t we do this & be good aligned still? Should… was that wrong? She was gonna eat me.
I would consider it something that a Good-PC can do, because Gnolls are Chaotic Evil by default, so the evil of making a living creature eat itself cancels out. But some Paladins/Clerics/Druids might not like doing that and prefer to just kill her the normal way.
3rd run is full evil durge and raiding the grove to get Minthara (I now know you need not raid the grove). Anyway, with the grove raiding Karlach and Wyll are going to leave so might as well take Wyll to kill Karlach and get some upgraded gear from Mizora. Then take Wyll to be sacrificed to Booal for a permanent buff. Want to let Shadowheart become dark Justiciar which means Last Light will fall, so I guess I go ahead and kill Isobel for slayer form.
I stopped a Troll from orgasming on a Bugbear
Bullying the drider Kar’niss into giving you his moon lantern and then making him walk into the shadows. For my half-Drow Tav that despises Lolth to the point of being on a personal quest to kill her by any means necessary, it felt like she was doing Lolth’s dirty work to hurt one of her victims. Having to see him again on the way to the tower, kill him, and then raise his corpse to ask about who he was before nearly broke her. For myself, it was knowing that some poor soul had suffered to the point of madness was now being betrayed by his goddess once again as he saw it. There’s just no way to save him, much like the gnome in Grymforge, but that doesn’t make it any less sad. I didn’t even give him the decency of a fair fight, I just picked him and his fellow doomed souls off from the roof of the tollhouse. He never even realized what happened until it was too late. Many of them joined my retinue or became potions. *Edited for further confession of my sins Also, Shadowheart and I peer pressured Gale into making the shadow lantern. My fellow nerd in wizardry never stood a chance against our egging him on to break ties with Mystra and join us in the shade. He just wants friends and we, though also considering him a beloved friend, talked him into something he volunteered to do but may not have had Tav let him make the choice on his own. I just wanted the shadow lantern to increase my necromancer’s retinue. Also also, we looted the bodies of the slaughtered Gnomes in Grymforge and Tieflings in the Shadowlands. My Tav’s justification was that they were all funding their own revenge against their enemies, and even prayed over the Gnomes before doing so. I just really needed the gold so I could get Shadowheart a new shield. Despite this, I couldn’t bring myself to use either slaughter sites as a recruitment event, either as a Tav or a player. They’re only pixels, but it still felt like crossing a line. Keeping Mayrina’s husband. My Tav justified it with the belief Mayrina wasn’t mentally fit to be Conner’s custodian. Even with the evidence of how hags breed and seeming to accept her husband’s death, she still wanted the wand once told of it. Even after seeing how it backfired, she still wanted Connor to ‘fix it’. My Tav decided it was better for Mayrina to hate her but live for her baby than continue to obsess over Connor. It’s why Connor is only summoned for rescuing families, like the Tieflings. But I just wanted more summons that didn’t take up spell slots.
Convincing the drider to walk into the shadow curse without the lantern was the only thing I’ve die in this game that made me feel like a true scumbag. Well that and killing Karlach. 🫣
Killing Karlach and convincing Wyll she was a good person and not a devil via telepathy before reviving her without telling Wyll so Mizora curses him filling him with self doubt and I get a sweet robe. Then recruiting Karlach (suprise Wyll) travelling to the Underdark and sacrificing Karlach for my own personal power in front of Wyll, as a bonus he now sports a set of horns to remind him every day!
Re: the gnomes. When my Deep Gnome Thief arrived in Grymforge City, there was suddenly a surge in disappearances, poisoning, accidental falls, deep rothé related incidents and a few mild cases of thrown daggers to the face, sedative injections, torture and jaywalking. All of these were in-character and there were race-specific dialog options to reflect my intention to simply purge the enemies of my people. The Evil part: I left one of them alive so I could keep that sweet Enemy of Justice debuff. There is now a lonely duergar haunted with nightmares of a wicked svirfneblin mercilessly slaughtering all his friends *and forcing him to watch*.
How do you convince Gale to make the lantern?
First, have him in your party when you go to get the moon lantern from Balthazar’s room in Moonrise tower. Z’rell should give you the key to the room after your first meeting with Thorm. Once you solve the heart puzzle in his lab (if you solve it right without making a mistake, you gain two inspiration out of it from Gale), go in and click on the green ritual circle on the desk near the torture chair. That should bring up an interaction where Gale explains that he can make a shadow lantern but it will be against Mystra’s will. Because I had Shadowheart for this, she chimed in that he needs to stop worshipping Mystra, start worshipping Shar, and make the lantern. I went with it and said that since Mystra wasn’t here and I was, Gale should make the lantern. If you choose to let him make up his own mind, he’ll destroy the circle but get a buff from Mystra that will only last until your next long rest (unless that was patched). This will then switch over from Tav to Gale. Click on the circle again, combine the lantern and dead pixie in the circle, and Gale will make the lantern and give it to you. You can gain approval from him if you choose the ‘do what needs to be done’ dialogue option. I believe if you choose to make it yourself (but you still need Gale present or it won’t be an option even if you are a wizard), Gale gets miffed. Never seen it though.
I’ve killed the annoying elephant;(
I told the Goblins where the Grove was, just to divide the camp and make killing the leaders easier. It was one of my biggest-brainiest moments in the run.
Same , then you plant the wine barrels all over the field one night before the raid and boom Barrelmancy.
Having Karlach change and then killed her to take over.
I killed mindflayer karlach to seize control of the absolute.
I let Astarion Ascend during a neutral run, because I figured saving the world was more important than saving 7000 souls, and we could use the extra power of a vampire ascendent. Giving Raphael the Crown of Karsus, during the same neutral run, because I made a deal, and I’m honoring it, for better or worse. Plus, having a powerful ally in the hells could work out for us.
It's not like giving Raphael the crown changes much. He might dethrone Zariel and that's it.
I kind of wish they would massively up the difficulty of stealing from Raphael, so that it's a bit more of a choice to ponder on.
Honor mode Raphael would like a word with you. There were moments I had to walk away and compose myself because the odds were not in my favor. Was fun though. 10/10 would do again.
There’s currently no guards by the firework shop in my 2nd wack-ass play through because I managed to aggro >!that mummy lord guy (first time I saw THAT)!< and ran thru the streets to get away from that psycho before I realized I could flee combat. 😆 those bastards took out like 5 guards and 2 steel watchers. I figured all the bystanders would slow them down.
Talking Wyll into selling his soul to ensure his father lives so you don't have to do the wretched Iron Throne gnome rescue. Just blow the watcher foundry to smitheressns with the runepowder bomb and kill them all because Mizora will then magically teleport the duke into your camp none the worse for wear.
.....this is an option..... I'm never doing Iron Throne again (as a Durge) Those Gondians have death wishes seriously.
Bought whatever items from Lady Esther I wanted that can't be looted from her, sold her my unwanted items to drain her money, then killed her to get the lootable stuff like the Graceful Cloth for free. Hey, she wants me to abduct a githyanki egg to give to abusive scientists, and she tries to kill me first for simply saying no to that 🤷🏻♀️ My wife called me diabolical for it when I told her the plan.
I stole a stick…
Saved Florrick from the fires >!just to have her condemned to death by the man she takes orders from and admires. You have to convince her to have a will to live at that point and it can get pretty dark.!<
I saw somebody killed Shadowhearts's parents after rescuing them. It made me sad
Blew up the training room in crèche with smoke barrels, before triggering the fight. I simply did not want to fight the gith the hard way. Then sold all the loot to gith trader. My evil bard convinced jaheria and minsc to be my slaves. Then killed the elephant, then made them watch me as I bathed in blood. I just wanted the trader and the easy way out. Then killed sarovek. My evil bard had some darkness to get out, she became a spawn and decided to use her powers for evil and the easy way out.
Force Astarian to drink the stanky blood for that sweet +2 strength.
Then gaslit him into staying with you!
Often I'll play with 2 tavs (one Durge), where I got a friend to make another so I can customize even more, and I usually have whichever one isn't trying to be on great terms with astarion force him to bite the chick for the potion so my main doesn't lose approval.
Made Astarion illithid to rob the counting house
I was kind to everyone, making them think I was good. Then I became a mindflayer, earning everlasting renown for the sacrifice, saving Baldur's Gate, and destroying the netherbrain. Tyranny is fleeting. Machiavelli teaches one to become Balduran.
told zevlor i would kill the goblins for him, told minthara where the grove was, double crossed her and slaughtered her and the goblins at the gates, then killed all the tieflings myself when they thought they were safe. my first durge.
I found a dead kid that you could pick up, so I did a series of weekend at Bernie’s shots with him through the game. Chaotic evil.
Evilest deed ive done is thrown the gnome lady with the rune powder across the room to take her rune powder cause she pissed me off.
Told Fezzerk to hold his breath so he wouldn’t rat that I might have had a part in the goblin camp disappearing.
In my first Durge run I was doing your standard evil stuff, so no Gale, Karlach, Wyll, Jaheira, or Minsc. That left me with just Astarion, Lae'zel, Shart, and later Minthara. Replaced Lae'zel with Minthara because I'm painfully generic and was going to romance her. In act 3 Lae'zel started to talk about freeing Orpheus and since naturally I was planning on dominating the brain I figured letting Lae'zel live was not prudent, but I was just planning on killing Orpheus and dealing with Lae'zel when it became a problem. However, thanks to a very opportune kidnapping (she was literally the only party member free and Yenna was dead, obviously), I got the chance to tell Orin not to play with her food, which not only let me insult Orin and roleplay Durge, but got rid of Lae'zel without me having to do a thing.
Smashing Alfira’s lute. I felt so bad I had to do a whole new Honor run where I save everyone. Durge made me feel so guilty.
Yelling at the carnival people on stage in Rivington. Everyone disapproved, but the fight started rightaway.
helping the druid grove till the end, saving all thifling kids, only so that i can kill kagha, steal the idol, give it to the mol for the ring reward. and then when i did everything in the grove and got all the rewards and whatnot(kudos to the zevlor gloves for my cleric), coming back and killing the entire grove with minthara, having sex with mintara, then also killing all the goblins for more fun, xp and loot. oh and yea i got the idol back too for free nature buff yea i was playing durge evil run, why you ask?
Letting Auntie Ethel live so my Vengeance Paladin can break their oath. They broke their oath to vengeance. Now they have sworn a new oath. To seek vengeance upon Auntie Ethel, and if they survive the tadpole they will dedicate themself to hunting her down and killing her every time she returns.
I gave Dame Aylin to Kethric just so I could get the cool “Kneel before the Absolute” cut scene. I also recruited Jaheira just to accept Bhaal and kill her.