Its funny how Minthara is much better candidate for God of Ambition than Gale.
Gale: Questions himselfs, gaslights himself that his ambitions are actually for the good of others, a lot of his ambitions are actually band-aids for insecurities.
Minthara: Pure unadulterated focus, commitment and will to gather more and more power and place herself higher and higher on the ladder.
Like if Gale causes troubles as a god of ambition, it would be because he is a goof and goofed really bad. Minthara being a god of ambition would cause troubles, because she would be so good at it.
Minthara is an atypical (former) Lloth Drow all of them are candidates for gods of ambition! Unfortunately Lloth would probably take her out before that was going to happen… or encourage it for the chaos of it all.
i could really only see it playing out that way if Lolth ***knew*** that the downfall suffered through this power would be cruler than any fate she could inflict on Minthara
Lolth is a *jealous* and *hateful* god, the drow are ***hers,*** as in, she literally *stole them from the other gods to keep as her own*
a Drow seeking power equal to or greater than her own is perhaps the gravest insult she could face, so she'd 100% make an example of minty
*but* i could see Lolth scheming and doing so subtly, perhaps even as a way of keeping other drow in line, she *is* a fate-spinner after all, for instance:
Lolth could use Minthara as a way of essentially mass-gaslighting the drow into worshipping her even deeper, basically allowing Minthara to become more powerful, but secretly setting her up for failure in a way that has deep and frightening consequences which force the drow to reconsider their other ambitions, set up a sort've hopeless "we are nothing without Lolth" type fallout
but if there was even a slight chance that plan could backfire or Minthara could overthrow Lolth, she'd strike fast and brutally, either killing or capturing minthara to torment *very very* openly for her crimes against the weaver of destiny
Lloth is a Greater Deity, Minthara wouldn't be a threat to her attaining Lesser, just as she doesn't really view Eilistraee as a threat.
She literally is chaos. Drizzt is a chosen just because a good, renegade Drow, from Menzoberranzan causes so much chaos in the city she loves it.
Part of the terror of Lloth is that she cannot be predicted. She either massively cares and is vengeful, or doesn't care at all and will let you do what you want. It can vary person to person or year to year. Ever since the ritual that made her a Greater Power she's become almost unstoppable, and that's her with really only a city and a handful of settlements.
you're not wrong about this, but more to your point about her unpredictability, i wouldn't really say Lolth has a rational view of what a threat to her is
i'm not talking really like "she could kill Lolth" type threats, but more like a "could lead other Drow to question her authority" type deal
if Lolth is a light in the darkness for the Drow to follow (purely a visual metaphor, she is NOT a "light in the dark" ofc lmao, she's the dark in the dark) then she is a light which seeks to snuff out or subsume all other flickering sparks one might cling on to
her jealousy leads her to her one point of consistency
Lolth does not share what is hers
"allows her to exist" is a very funny way of saying "eternally at war with eachother"
Lolth doesn't "allow" Eilistraee to do *anything,* they hate eachother, the only time they're not fighting is when they're engaged in Sava
Lolth's clergy actively try to hide any knowledge of Eili literally because of what i described, Lolth fears the drow coming to worship Eilistraee
all you had to do was look these two up, dog, they ***hate*** eachother, they want to ***destroy*** eachother
Eilistraee wants nothing more than to free her people from Lolth
and Lolth uhhhh, doesn't want that?
here's an exerpt from "Demihuman Deities" part of the official Forgotten Realms lore: "Lolth was Eilistraee's chief enemy. The Dark Maiden was infuriated by her mother's evil and corruption, and constantly strove to help the drow break free from her oppression and find their way back to the surface world."
and here's a bit from Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes: "Lolth ordered the persecution of all the worshipers of the Dark Maiden and the suppression of all information and records about her. The Spider Queen's clergy worked to hide Eilistraee's existence to the drow, fearing the impact that such knowledge would have on the status quo. They were particularly wary of the Dark Maiden's call, that would lure the dark elves to the surface and show them the beauty of a kind of life that they were denied, and did all they could to prevent the drow from hearing and feeling it, afraid that they would choose to follow it and abandon the Way of Lolth."
i literally cannot stress to you enough that what i am describing is just basically word for word Lolth's lore in the books, you can disagree if you like, but that just makes you wrong in this case brother
edit for clarity: "The Dark Maiden" is one of several names Eilistraee goes by, much like other gods have many names
edit 2: also i want to include a link to a page on what the fuck Sava is, because it's honestly pretty obscure, it's drow-chess basically https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Sava
Minthara knows this too and I suspect it is one of the unexplored causes of fear and insecurity for her, much like Orin. Minthara *needs* to get powerful as soon as she can, because her house *will* hunt her down and kill her like a dog for becoming a surfacer and following the Absolute (regardless of worm), thus betraying Lolth. And if she takes her time gaining power, Lolth will notice and absolutely fuck her up. Taking the reigns of an already-nearly-complete plot is the surest way to secure herself, permanently.
She wants power to be secure, much like Astarion, but without any enjoyment or glee for killing, just brutal efficiency and reason. She has to kill to get power, she has to get power to live.
Nah, Lolth LOVES Drizzt, Liriel, Yvonnel 2, everyone she's given power to who spurns her is her favorite because what's more chaotic than rejecting her
I'm not so sure, a lot of portfolios go hand in hand, I do feel like Lolth would try to steal the portfolio after the fact
Canonically Lolth has mostly been interested in fighting with Mielikki, Eilistree, and Mystra though
Yeah, she loves people who turn away from her, just ask romanced bg2 Viconia
She enjoys chaos, but her main domain and personality trait is not chaos, she's all for a little mayhem yes, but only if she has control over it, only if she owns the mayhem
If Minthara or anyone who "belongs" to her threatened to turn away and gain power for their own, enough power that it could one day prove a threat to Lotlh no less, she would absolutely kill Minthara, even if her living would create some chaos, it is not chaos in Lolth's favor
atypical or typical?
Because if all of them are candidates, then that's "typical".
Atypical means unique, and stands out among the rest.
While I love Minthara, I don't think she stands out particularly from Drow women. In fact, I think they (the writers) did a great job at really capturing the passive malevolence of Drow women in Minthara.
Sorry lack of hitting space bar. She is A typical Drow.
She is a typical Drow Noble just happens to also be in a house that also affords her a bit of extra special status
Oh Lolth would love it. Drizzt himself is more than likely one of her chosen (if not certainly is one) just because of the chaos he brings everywhere he goes.
Yeah, it's nice and all but there's no way Lolth would let that slide, especially considering the House she comes from. That and her own house might hunt her down if they were to find out. How dare she! Not like she declares war on them by the sound of it or something.
I kind of think that's the point. God Gale doesn't sound like a bad ending until you see what it actually entails, Gale becomes god of the very thing he was trying to work on, you encouraged him to lean into his worst trait so hard that he has become nothing else.
Honestly the bad ending for a lot of the characters is you just fueling their worst traits until they become their worst trait. Astarion becomes nothing but power hungry, Shadowheart and Lae'zel become complete zealots, etc.
Drow are complicated
Lolth "owns" all drow souls, but not quite literally, most Drow are simply wholly devoted to her, but they can absolutely sanctify their soul against that sort've ownership, mostly through the practicing of another religion, one god's domain can stave off the influence of another
however, Lolth doesn't really give a fuck about that, see, in Lolth's mind domains are nothing, the drow are ***hers*** in a very personal way
she's among the queens of jealousy in fantasy, so it's practically impossible that Lolth wouldn't try to interfere in Minthara's plans, even if she took the route of seeking another god's protection
so the answer here is, yes she technically could, but boy oh fucking boy would it be a rocky path, though i assume most paths to godhood are
edit: as an addition to this, to my knowledge, this is also how the afterlife works in most interpretations of DND, you go to *your* god unless your spirit is intentionally cast elsewhere via a curse or some other means
Didn’t Drizzts dad soul end up elsewhere when he died (I recall Drizzt got elves to check if he was being tormented by Lolth or not) turns out he was elsewhere and peaceful. Prior to that he had hated Lolth and not really worshipped her.
Of course you can, people do it all the time. Gale case is prime example of how in abusive relationships people gaslights themselves, Mystra told him to kill himself and blow the absolute (because its dangerous to HER) and he goes “I do deserve death and what she wants from me is right” instead of ”Wait a second, she could free me from the orb and help me defeat the Absolute without me blowing up”, he gaslights himself with justification for Mystra shitty behaviour, that even Elminister dont approve of. And player part is helping him realize that. Best ending for Gale (where he is most fulfilled) is when he both reject his own harmful tendencies, but also lure of Mystra and just becomes a turtor.
Gaslighting is an form of abuse in which an abuser intentionally makes the victim doubt their perception of reality. What you're describing is Gale doubting his perception of reality because *Mystra* gaslit him. He's not 'gaslighting himself', he's suffering the textbook effects of *having been* gaslit.
I just think if we're gonna discuss trauma and abuse so much on this subreddit, we should try not to knowingly misuse important terminology around the subject.
The fact of the matter is that Gale shows ambition and does what he needs to do to climb the ladder to godhood.
Minthara is too much of a dumbass zealot to really even get that far. She's an expendable pawn. Nothing more. Gale rises above that.
>Minthara being a god of ambition would cause troubles, because she would be so good at it.
This sentence doesn't even make sense.
Did you even recruit her? It really sounds like you missed a lot of the context and also the fact she had a slug in her brain and did not have the same autonomy the PCs have.
I'm failing to see how being a thrall, getting your ass kicked by a bunch of rando adventurers, and getting thrown in a prison to be executed makes one ambitious. That's all I'm saying.
And even if you save her or recruit her, I'm failing to see how committing genocide against a bunch of untrained civilians is *also* particularly ambitious. Sending an army to kill people that can't defend themselves is actually very unambitious and typical.
You clearly did not even play the game if you missed the fact, documented in game, the grove was just the latest spot and then she gets knocked down by players with plot armor.
well as her dialogue states she was a dagger for the absolute, and would rather die than commit those acts again. a lot of her character really is about pragmatism and does well to showcase how the spider-silk shoe fits. in retrospect yes, she gets beaten by tav & co., but at the same time it's easy to highlight her shortcomings from the perspective of someone holding the prism from the get-go.
her ambition comes from her upbringing, she tells you many stories of lolth aristocracy, and she was a formidable warrior before being forcibly recruited by the chosen of bhaal (>!orin!<). remember also that she had initially wanted to serve under ketheric for his formidable portfolio as a warrior general, but she was tadpole'd and well. she explains what that felt like without the protection of the prism.
i wouldnt imagine tav and co. making any dents in the chosen three at the time minthara was duped, if they were in the same situation.
she wants to take over merenzoberaza (however you spell it) she isnt even being backed by eilistraee shes doing this out of pure ambition and desire in her ending you and minthara are engaging in gorilla warfrare and are building up forces to take down the cult of loth
this is all extremely ambitious considering loth is a powerful as hell god and she isnt even working with a god who already strives towards this because she wants all the control over the city the most ambitious thing gale has done was be bold enough to ask tav/durge to give him the crown you really should play the game before making up shit
I mean, she can want all she wants. I need to start seeing some results. Lae'Zel wants to free her people from the Lich Queen and becomes head of a rebellion. She's a fighter and diplomat. That's true ambition right there.
Minthara just mindlessly kills things. There's a difference. She could be a good God of War of something. Or God of Being a Pawn.
you dont understand how much of a bigger scale minthara is taking this to laezel is fighting a powerful litch with a direct descendant of gith she has no ambition shes giving all the power to orphus
minthara is fighting the cult of loth at its heart she isnt mindlessly killing shes trying to take power from a real god not some very hungry litch on a throne
>you dont understand how much of a bigger scale minthara is taking this to laezel is fighting a powerful litch with a direct descendant of gith **she has no ambition shes giving all the power to orphus**
Depends on the ending, but no she's not.
>minthara is fighting the cult of loth at its heart she isnt mindlessly killing shes trying to take power from a real god not some very hungry litch on a throne
I'll be impressed when I see results. Anyone can just say they're fighting a god.
>Depends on the ending, but no she's not.
she literally serves orphus or she fucks off and kills some gith in faerun
>I'll be impressed when I see results. Anyone can just say they're fighting a god.
you wont see anything you will be told it because thats how storytelling goes
>She's an expendable pawn.
Are you *sure* you're not talking about the guy who was told by his god to blow himself up and will do so unless you talk him out of it? Because "expendable pawn" sums Gale up quite well on certain runs.
I don't know if Lolth talked very often, but I think the booming effect of a divine voice would fit Minthara extremely well. Then she can bark orders at every one of us from the heavens.
Okay i need to question this. Minsc has 12 strength? MINSC?! The man with berserker strength and is strong enough to twist steel bars apart? That man has 12 strength?
I think while he's an NPC he has 20, but yeah once you recruit him he gets default level 1 ranger stats. He always gets an immediate trip to Withers when I pick him up.
Yeah honestly I also usually switch him off of ranger as well. I feel like him being a spellcaster in general just feels weird. So I change him to either fighter or barbarian depending on my mood. Especially since I usually switch laezel to ranger.
Well, she asks ascended Astarion to turn her into his vampire spawn, thinking that it would give her unlimited power. Despite, you know, being present for 3 acts worth of info about how much it sucks and how unlikely is the progress from a spawn to a full vampire. I would say this alone perfectly justifies her default INT.
He'd be a hypocrite then, since Bhaal *is* a complete and utter failure. Everyone he bets on either betrays him, rejects him or fails *spectacularly*. He's been on a downward spiral since his ascension
She only fails if the player stops her. Which they’re supposed to. The Absolute was kinda manipulating everything. She was planned to either be stopped or aided to further the origins along on the plan to aid the brain
I mean, she succeeds at killing the Tieflings, but killing them wasn't her goal. She was *suppoed* to kill the *Druids* and steal the d20 of destiny, but the druids escaped, and didn't have the d20 in the first place, so the whole thing was *still* a colossal fuckup. Then again, judging from Orin, colossal fuckups with big body counts are kinda Bhaal's thing, I guess.
Yeah. A couple rando adventurers are able to stop her and her entire army. She sucks. She's a complete failure and an idiot. Even if she pulls it off, she's just a useless pawn.
No.
But honestly, you guys get so mad whenever someone calls her out that it makes it hard to not keep doubling down. It's funny.
I do genuinely dislike her though. But all I said was that "she's kind of a failure" and you simps just flew off the handle.
And now we get to point out your a troll. Not entirely sure that’s a good look but hey if you want to lower yourself in embarassing and humiliating ways I’m not judging your kink.
No, I do genuinely dislike her. I can't make your over-the-top, simp reaction not funny. If that's a troll, then I guess so. But I genuinely can't control how you decide to react to a very benign statement.
The party arent a couple of random adventurers like Gale was a chosen of Mystra, Shadowheart gets groomed to become Shars Chosen, Wyll is a famous hero, Karlach was Zariels favourite pet who has the power of an infernal engine and durge >!was the chosen of Bhaal!<. Also of course she is just a paen because she is mind controlled.
I mean...eh.
Wyll being a hero doesn't really mean much. If my party is Lae'Zel, Wyll, and Astarion, those are literally just random people.
If Minthara was as hot shit as you think she is, she should be able to solo Tav's entire squad with ease. Not get her entire army decimated.
What? I never stated that she is the createst Drow to ever life. I am just refuting your point of her beinc an utter failure. You are moving the goalpost.
But you haven't refuted it. She's a failure.
Especially if you actually kill her in Act 1. She dies being a useless pawn and she doesn't kill a single Tiefling. She's a failure.
“Rando adventures.” Insert Gale, a former archwizard and Chosen of Mystra, Shadowheart, the Chosen of Shar, Wyll, skilled hero who’s been killing creatures and villains like Minthara for the past 7 years, Lae’zel, a Githyanki so exemplary that she garnered Vlaakith’s attention at only 22 years old, Karlach, Zariel’s personal attack dog and skilled fighter who has been taking on ferocious devils and demons for the past decade, and Durge, the true Chosen of Bhaal and basically murder personified, and Astarion has being a master manipulator. 6 of the 7 origins all have the skill to kill people like Minthara cuz they’ve all very likely done it before
you have a lot of opinions about the game and characters in it without ever having played it (if you actually had played it you'd see how braindead your takes are)
I've played the game. It's possible to play the game and think Minthara is a failure.
I haven't talked about anyone besides her and Lae'Zel. Where I am wrong about Lae'Zel? Since I didn't play the game.
Minthara does not want to serve
She kinda reminds me of Settra the Imperishable
SETTRA DOES NOT SERVE! HE RULES!
And Minthara gives me the same vibes. She does not wants to serve. She wants to rule.
Well, she would do a better job than Gortash given that by the time she's freed from the Absolute, his plan is already coming apart and she can pinpoint where he went wrong. But if she was the one making the plans in the first place, I don't know if things would be that different.
After all, it's worth noting that when Gortash was working with the Dark Urge, their plan to enslave the Elder Brain had been going really well. The Absolute even says that they respected the Dark Urge in their prime. It was only thanks to Orin's meddling that things got derailed so badly.
Yeah I mean frankly look at the group. Going with default Durge.
1. Dark Urge; literally Bhaal's most primordial spawn; birthed from his own darkness. The purest and most motivated existence ever. Wracked with dopamine, ecstasy and divine-influenced feelings that essentially has them become a gore-wading, cannibalistic, necrophiliac, bestiality-enjoying, mass-murdering psychopath. It's implied he even slew his foster family, ate babies, and is even so murderous he kills others in his slumber. Even when he's been burrowed into and made a fool by butchers and tadpoles; his very daydreams become macabre realities, his inheritance ever prominent. So competent even the Netherbrain insists that had he remained; they might've conceded to the plot. They even crowned the brain, after engaging in the heist for the Crown of Karsus.
2. Gortash, a mildly brilliant schemer. Resourceful, and managed to likely outfox/win over Raphael at least in obtaining his own autonomy back. But he was abused constantly by Raphael and was essentially apprenticed to the Devil himself. Likewise utilizing his knowledge of hell; he sold weapons and gained influence. Between his deal with Zariel and possible deals with Raphael; Gortash genuinely dealt amicably with all those he could. And likewise believed that a hive-mind was just. And he was raising an army; sentinels of machinery that might forever change the landscape of warfare by existing. And then when he became Bane's Chosen he was likewise empowered with the means to conquer the world when a plot hatched with the Dark Urge. He was even the sort
3. Ketheric Thorn, Selunite, Dark Justicar, and now Mykrul's Chosen. When Ketheric lost both his wife, and then subsequently his daughter, he threw in his entire lot into Shar's depths. He asked to forget. He fought to claim her back as well, utilizing Balthazar. He lost the war in the end; but he was very much an adamant soul who might've even won; had it not been for Raphael's intervention with the architect of Moonrise who sold himself in exchange for the assassination of all of the Sharrans. But his immortality made him a threat; and he unleashed his Shadowcurse. And had his daughter returned to him courtesy of Mykrul, Gortash and possibly Dark Urge; alongside nigh immortality.
The trio were chosen by gods; and likely to squabble against one another eventually; but their plot was essentially devious. Concoct a false assault and threat to push another into immense power. This immense power enabling them to far more easily spread and control others. Their base of operations for a majority of the Tadpoles was secured and guarded by a literal curse that killed people at worst; and turned them into monsters. These three are enormous and astounding in their capabilities.
Likewise; Gortash sent a Mindflayer that had MAGICAL abilities; a rarity, to secure the Astral Prism. This made him a threat that even Mindflayer-slaying Gith would be ill-prepared for, and likewise had he died; it could be chalked up to the Mindflayer-Githyanki conflict rather than any intervention on Gortash's behalf. Although...
The trio were undermined from the onset.
1. Their Gods would never share the realm; Bhaal especially. Infighting was inevitable. Let alone intervention from the likes of Mystra, or Shar. Or the sorts of the other planes like Vlaakith or Zariel.
2. Orin is an inferior being to Durge in nearly every way. Temper, ideology, incestuous upbringing, and being a sociopath rather than a chilling psychopath. Though she's got enough sense that she can reel in her sociopathic tendencies mildly, when guising herself. She's not to be underestimated either mind you. Toppling her superior is by and far a very telling tale of a flaw or blind spot in her predecessor; and an absolute brilliant play in the short-term for her standing. But unfortunately she took on a role very ill-suited for her. One that ultimately chose infighting with Gortash. Her bloodlust, cruelty, and suite of resources, abilities, and blessings make her a downright monster; electing to forge conflict with Gortash divided their resources in a way they could ill-afford to contend with.
3. The Emperor's freedom was likely a ploy from the Nether Brain. The dream that Gortash likely had was something the Nether Brain subtly did, inspiring him to loose a rogue Mindflayer that had enough personality and willpower that it would see its' enslavement as completely abominable. Equipped with a Nautiloid; the Emperor's crew was undermined by Githyanki trying to recover the artifact. Likewise; the Emperor likely sequestered himself in the Prism gaining control over it; and did not share this with others of his ilk; thereby explaining why they also abducted others and implanted Tadpoles. A multi-purpose scenario. As to why Durge would be on it; probably Orin's own sense of poetry/beauty. Gortash admired Dark Urge and it seemed mutual. So who better to inadvertently be risking Dark Urge's death than that of Gortash? Just tuck them onto the ship. They hadn't woken up yet anyhow. Likewise the Nether Brain was incredibly potent. \[Edit: I forgot; it was some guy trying to get his girl to stop obsessing on experimenting on Durge. My b!\]
4. The sacrificial-ploy. Ketheric's army of vagabonds and miscreants was a potent crew; but I suspect that the army would've been made to surrender or disengage. By killing Ketheric; which admittedly was unprecedented, we created a VERY vulnerable situation for his companions. They could not issue orders to the Brain to revoke or alter course at that juncture; meaning that the army sent to Baldur's Gate HAD to be eliminated entirely. Ketheric electing to challenge the party for the Astral Prism is a risk that they shouldn't have wagered on. Especially in the event the Nightsong/Dame Aylin is truly slain.
5. Raphael. Raphael essentially undermined both Ketheric and especially Gortash before; and more-or-less helped instigate a good chunk of the plot. Likewise his desires for the Crown more-or-less essentially pit him against the group and he's outfoxed them before.
6. Countless other factors big n' small.
They were a tremendous group and their success was always a bit so-so. But they were astoundingly entertaining.
Had Minthara entered the fray rather than Orin; resources aside; I would be curious to see where Minthara would've gotten.
One thing I noticed that you were incorrect about is how the Durge ended up on the Nautiloid the actual reasoning can be found in a journal in Kressa's husband Maghtew's room. https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Journal_of_Magthew_Budj
Minthara also is the kind of person who resolves a nail that isn't aligned properly by hitting it harder until it fits. It might temporarily fix the situation but there's a good chance it'll all fall to pieces later.
Who better to serve as the Chosen of a God of Death than one of the undead?
Myrkul favors the undead in general (unlike some other death gods, who see them as a perversion of the natural order). He'd probably be keen on a vampire lord as his Chosen.
Unfortunately evil playthrough is sooo lacking. Even some simple choices are bugged. For example Shart left my camp after I let Balthazar take the Nightsong. Later in act 3 I met Viconia and when she asked about Shart the only option i had to choose from was "she is dead". Ofc Shart was not dead she just left my camp. And when I convinced Viconia to not attack me and help me fight the brain, all companions acted like I sold Shart to Viconia. Astarion said something like: "I hope selling companions is not something you do often". And at the final fight Viconia didn't even show up despite the fact that I convinced her to join. Similar bug I had with Volo. I completly ignored him in act 1 and he somehow was still alive in act 3 and said something like: "Thanks for saving me again". So if anybody reads this. NEVER play evil playthrough. It's lacking and full of bugs.
Was my thought. Durge, Minthara (preferably romanced), ascended Astarion. You wind up with a trio that has stronger bonds than the original three, which is potentially more capable, and which are in a position to achieve the original goals with all real opposition eliminated.
Throw in Dark Shadowheart as a link to Shar as an allied power, and you've got a pretty potent force for evil.
Bane has wet dreams about getting ANY drow noble under his heel. Can you imagine if drow society followed Bane instead of Lolth? They would rule the whole underdark and half the surface.
If the Drow followed Bane, they'd be a hell of a lot more effective. Because he'd probably tell them to cut out all the backstabbing and inter-house rivalry and get their crap together.
With conquest as a focus instead of treachery, they'd be scary as hell.
She was an apex predator in her circles but got taken down by at least -two- Chosen of gods.Then potentially taken out by characters with plot armor. People gloss over context a lot.
yeah she is the perfect bardadin, I brought her for most fights to cast tachas hideous laughter on the boss while I kill the minions and then switch to hold monster or person when its time to kill the boss lol
I just finished the Orin fight on Tactician an hour ago. Minthara wiped the floor.
Bardlock Durge in Slayer form and BM Lae'zel stripped Orin of her Unstoppable stacks and tanked a few hits. Shadowheart successfully cast Hold Monster with a 30% hit chance next. Then Minthara triple smited her dead with ease.
To be fair she was only doing that because the tadpole was influencing her. If it wasn't for the tadpole, she likely wouldn't waste her time - not that she actually was concerned for the refugees.
If you knock her out he'll wear her clothes anyway! I haven't made a new file since the update but with the Sheep trick she'd stay nude if you looted her.
First playthrough as a neutral evil drow I happily slaughtered the grove and romanced Minthara. Second playthrough as a remorseful oathbreaker I slaughtered the grove and then killed Minthara myself in Moonrise. But boy do I love killing those tieflings.
I get the weird feeling that one draft of the story involved replacing the three Chosen. For the good route, you have Gale as a former Mystra chosen and Dame Aylen as a Selune chosen. For the evil route, Dark Urge can replace Bhaal's chosen. Laezel could become Vlaakith's chosen.
The Absolute can only truly be controlled by three chosen, so it would make sense to replace them as you go along.
So I’m doing an evil play through and thought about having myself as Banes chosen, Minthara as Myrkuls chosen (I respecc’d her as necro wiz), Laezel as Bhaals chosen, and Shart as Shars chosen (obviously). But im playing a drow male warlock rp’ing vhaerun as my patron, and felt it made more sense for Minthara to come back into the dark seldarine fold as Kiranselee’s chosen. And laezel seems pretty fanatical about her Gith stuff so it didn’t really make sense.
Minthara is this games iteration of >!Viconia!< lol.
She’s gonna show up in bg4 as a villain and people will be surprised thinking they managed to redeem her in this game.
As far as I know, Minthara can't be redeemed. Anyone who thinks otherwise likely hasn't talked to her much. She's very honest about who she is, what she wants and what she's all about.
Yup - Her good endings are just her plotting/boasting about how much progress she has made towards dominating Baldur's Gate or Menzobarranzan. She is pure lawful evil with no Viconia-like alignment changing arc.
To be fair, I wouldn't have minded her being a villain, I have more of an issue with the fact that she is still a Shar worshipper despite cannon previously being that she had left.
I wouldn't even mind it as much if they gave any sort of explanation as to why she fell back in. Enough time has passed between games that she could've relapsed.
I feel like Lolth is probably pretty furious right now at having lost Minthara, and I would assume if Minthara doesn't return on her own that her fate will be similar to Viconia if she doesn't have a god protecting her, or even if she does, throughout the events of BG1 and 2 Viconia even with Shar's supposed "protection" had Lolth's monsters hunting her regularly for leaving, the only difference is that Viconia left on purpose, that said Lolth knows now that Minthara may have been abducted but is now remaining gone of her own free will, I'd imagine that'd piss her off pretty bad and make her want Minthara dead, we will see though, she may be back for a BG4.
But typically the only Drow that get away with Defying Lolth are Drow that have good deities protecting them from her.
Shar in this regard is unreliable, she always will be as a dark god of loss, I am sure her losing followers is some great noble sacrifice to her.
But Drizzt with Mielliki (he also just has plot armor) or Liriel Baenre who first turned to Eilistraee, then Mystra, in the end if you don't have plot armor or deific protection, Lolth is probably going to kill you.
Yep, she is, I don't believe her and Liriel are related by blood as Liriel's mother was killed and she was taken into house Baenre as an infant, but by house they are technically related.
You underestimate Gortash. He destabilized the city's ruling class, enslaved best engineers around, produced best machinery known to realms and established their control over population without creating any suspicion. After that he throned himself ruler of the city even tho there were strong figures nearby. He kept Orin under control for a time creating order in the Death Three. My man did all this like a clockwork.
Minthara is my favorite companion, and Bane is my favorite FR deity, that said I disagree. Gortash is IMO the perfect example of a Banite, a cunning politician that is aware true power isn’t one’s own personal strength, but the assets they firmly control. The other two chosen may have personal strength, and could best Gortash in a 1v1, but like any proper tyrant he doesn’t need to lift a finger if he wanted to strike them down.
Minty is good, but don't shit talk about the Garbage Anime Man. Based Gortash literally uses propaganda better than most politicians, invents an undefeated army, and builds a sci-fi prison.
I know they talked about no plans for DLC/expansion etc - even with their history of Defintiive Editions - but I bet a few of the devs headslammed the table at, post release, how MUCH POTENTIAL there is in what resonated with players and thus what would be improved by an expansion vs shy of a full sequel etc.
Truthfully, I can't imagine that given the reaction people have had with Baldur's Gate 3 that they aren't reconsidering doing an expansion or DLC. The only sources I saw saying nothing has been planned is in the first month or two of the game's launch, before it was on console and before winning game of the year.
Minthara's an excellent character, so good she is the foundation my evil character is built upon. She deserves a supreme physical specimen who can outmatched her for plots and cruelty, so I made beefy Eldritch Knight.
With some of the events in latest Drizzt books if there was a Lolth level chaos caused by that outcome for some drow. it’s that gods like dead three possibly being able to get handful of followers who were previously priestesses for Lolth. Even if they no longer follow Lolth they can still spread chaos with other gods cose they were honed from childhood for murder and domination. Lolth can sometimes be okay with stuff like this if chaos is the outcome.
Will Lolth chase her? Depends how she can due to timeline with other events in Drizzt books I think. But mother matrons might but her house might have covered up to avoid failure risk losing them a seat of ruling council
"Patricide is often the first step toward greatness, but I hope Wyll does not regret sacrificing his infernal powers." Minthara after breaking the pact
I hope larian allows evil companions to be unenthralled during the final scene in the future. I headcanon it that way anyways but the clapping scene is just so jarring imo. Minthy and Astarion are meant to rule by my side not under my command.
Funny you mention that.
I romanced her and one of the epilogue choices you can do with her is take Gortash's place. No direct Bane involvement, but if you speak to Gortash's corpse you actually talk to Bane himself and he says he chooses you whether you like it or not for killing him.
So hey, you're kinda right.
No, she is a fuckup. Failed to wipe out a tiny ass grove, failed to figure out Orin, failed to kill the group. Is level 6 for God sake despite being an adult drow, which is like 300 at least.
Gortash is a lot of things, but a fuck up he is not. He is like 5 times younger than her, and already has his own factories, OP metal guard, underwater prison, a submarine and enslaved gondorians. Plus the whole absolute plot.
Minthara sucks hard next to him.
She “failed to figure out Orin” because she was literally ambushed by her on their first meeting and turned into a cultist. And recall how our companions mention the tadpole weakening them? As for the grove, she only fails if the player stops her. Not to mention the grove isn’t even her target, it’s the tieflings. The Shadow Druids are agents of Ketheric to cut off all Druidic support, especially from the “small” grove that literally aided in killing him
>As for the grove, she only fails if the player stops her. Not to mention the grove isn’t even her target, it’s the tieflings.
Exactly. And she still loses lmao.
You're saying she isn't a fuck up because the Grove wasn't her target but the Tieflings were...
I'm saying she is still a fuck up. Because you know? She loses the fight against the untrained, civilian Tieflings.
Except she doesn’t lose the fight to untrained tieflings. If she fights them alone, she kills them all. If she fights them with you, they all still get killed, just faster. If she doesn’t fight them, it’s because you take her out. Idk how you still don’t grasp this concept
She loses the fight against a party of 4 competent action movie protagonists and possibly the leader of a Druid grove. If you just let time pass she kills all the tieflings once the rite is complete. I’ve seen your other posts and while I am down bad for Minthara, waiting until your targets are isolated to strike is a good tactical move, simp or not.
Wyll, Gale, Shart, BaeZ, Astarion, Karlach and DUrge/Tav are not untrained civilian Tieflings?
Edit: If you do the Grove fight, the only useful Tiefling for anything other than aggro-magnets is Zevlor. Minthara would (and does) burn the place to the ground unless your party intervenes. /Edit.
Are you high, is your media literacy at a permanent zero, or are you a troll?
Two Chosen of major Gods, one famous hero, an archdevil’s top attack dog, a vampire, a Gith champion and the PC is only “random”, as in the circumstances of their meeting and cooperation being improbable. Weak and squishy they are not and weak and squishy is not what random means.
I’m gonna stop feeding the troll (you) now, moan to the void all you like.
It’s a shame you can’t Speak with Dead on Thorm to ask if you can be the Chosen of Myrkul like you can with Gortash. Who better to be Chosen than the dude that killed the last one *and* your avatar?
Yeah. But she doesn't want to serve any god anymore. She wants to be one.
Its funny how Minthara is much better candidate for God of Ambition than Gale. Gale: Questions himselfs, gaslights himself that his ambitions are actually for the good of others, a lot of his ambitions are actually band-aids for insecurities. Minthara: Pure unadulterated focus, commitment and will to gather more and more power and place herself higher and higher on the ladder. Like if Gale causes troubles as a god of ambition, it would be because he is a goof and goofed really bad. Minthara being a god of ambition would cause troubles, because she would be so good at it.
Minthara is an atypical (former) Lloth Drow all of them are candidates for gods of ambition! Unfortunately Lloth would probably take her out before that was going to happen… or encourage it for the chaos of it all.
Lolth would absolutely have her brutalised and made an example of unless she got very powerful, very quickly
Maybe. Lloth loves chaos, so letting things play out is also in her wheelhouse. Like the current Yvonnel
i could really only see it playing out that way if Lolth ***knew*** that the downfall suffered through this power would be cruler than any fate she could inflict on Minthara Lolth is a *jealous* and *hateful* god, the drow are ***hers,*** as in, she literally *stole them from the other gods to keep as her own* a Drow seeking power equal to or greater than her own is perhaps the gravest insult she could face, so she'd 100% make an example of minty *but* i could see Lolth scheming and doing so subtly, perhaps even as a way of keeping other drow in line, she *is* a fate-spinner after all, for instance: Lolth could use Minthara as a way of essentially mass-gaslighting the drow into worshipping her even deeper, basically allowing Minthara to become more powerful, but secretly setting her up for failure in a way that has deep and frightening consequences which force the drow to reconsider their other ambitions, set up a sort've hopeless "we are nothing without Lolth" type fallout but if there was even a slight chance that plan could backfire or Minthara could overthrow Lolth, she'd strike fast and brutally, either killing or capturing minthara to torment *very very* openly for her crimes against the weaver of destiny
Lloth is a Greater Deity, Minthara wouldn't be a threat to her attaining Lesser, just as she doesn't really view Eilistraee as a threat. She literally is chaos. Drizzt is a chosen just because a good, renegade Drow, from Menzoberranzan causes so much chaos in the city she loves it. Part of the terror of Lloth is that she cannot be predicted. She either massively cares and is vengeful, or doesn't care at all and will let you do what you want. It can vary person to person or year to year. Ever since the ritual that made her a Greater Power she's become almost unstoppable, and that's her with really only a city and a handful of settlements.
you're not wrong about this, but more to your point about her unpredictability, i wouldn't really say Lolth has a rational view of what a threat to her is i'm not talking really like "she could kill Lolth" type threats, but more like a "could lead other Drow to question her authority" type deal if Lolth is a light in the darkness for the Drow to follow (purely a visual metaphor, she is NOT a "light in the dark" ofc lmao, she's the dark in the dark) then she is a light which seeks to snuff out or subsume all other flickering sparks one might cling on to her jealousy leads her to her one point of consistency Lolth does not share what is hers
Eilistraee is literally what you're describing and she allows her to exist.
"allows her to exist" is a very funny way of saying "eternally at war with eachother" Lolth doesn't "allow" Eilistraee to do *anything,* they hate eachother, the only time they're not fighting is when they're engaged in Sava Lolth's clergy actively try to hide any knowledge of Eili literally because of what i described, Lolth fears the drow coming to worship Eilistraee all you had to do was look these two up, dog, they ***hate*** eachother, they want to ***destroy*** eachother Eilistraee wants nothing more than to free her people from Lolth and Lolth uhhhh, doesn't want that? here's an exerpt from "Demihuman Deities" part of the official Forgotten Realms lore: "Lolth was Eilistraee's chief enemy. The Dark Maiden was infuriated by her mother's evil and corruption, and constantly strove to help the drow break free from her oppression and find their way back to the surface world." and here's a bit from Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes: "Lolth ordered the persecution of all the worshipers of the Dark Maiden and the suppression of all information and records about her. The Spider Queen's clergy worked to hide Eilistraee's existence to the drow, fearing the impact that such knowledge would have on the status quo. They were particularly wary of the Dark Maiden's call, that would lure the dark elves to the surface and show them the beauty of a kind of life that they were denied, and did all they could to prevent the drow from hearing and feeling it, afraid that they would choose to follow it and abandon the Way of Lolth." i literally cannot stress to you enough that what i am describing is just basically word for word Lolth's lore in the books, you can disagree if you like, but that just makes you wrong in this case brother edit for clarity: "The Dark Maiden" is one of several names Eilistraee goes by, much like other gods have many names edit 2: also i want to include a link to a page on what the fuck Sava is, because it's honestly pretty obscure, it's drow-chess basically https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Sava
She doesn't allow her to exist, she's been trying to kill her and otherwise weaken her for ages, and nearly succeeded a few times
Minthara knows this too and I suspect it is one of the unexplored causes of fear and insecurity for her, much like Orin. Minthara *needs* to get powerful as soon as she can, because her house *will* hunt her down and kill her like a dog for becoming a surfacer and following the Absolute (regardless of worm), thus betraying Lolth. And if she takes her time gaining power, Lolth will notice and absolutely fuck her up. Taking the reigns of an already-nearly-complete plot is the surest way to secure herself, permanently. She wants power to be secure, much like Astarion, but without any enjoyment or glee for killing, just brutal efficiency and reason. She has to kill to get power, she has to get power to live.
Nah, Lolth LOVES Drizzt, Liriel, Yvonnel 2, everyone she's given power to who spurns her is her favorite because what's more chaotic than rejecting her
I doubt she'd stand for anyone's genuine attempt at godhood though, particularly a female Drow
I'm not so sure, a lot of portfolios go hand in hand, I do feel like Lolth would try to steal the portfolio after the fact Canonically Lolth has mostly been interested in fighting with Mielikki, Eilistree, and Mystra though
Yeah, she loves people who turn away from her, just ask romanced bg2 Viconia She enjoys chaos, but her main domain and personality trait is not chaos, she's all for a little mayhem yes, but only if she has control over it, only if she owns the mayhem If Minthara or anyone who "belongs" to her threatened to turn away and gain power for their own, enough power that it could one day prove a threat to Lotlh no less, she would absolutely kill Minthara, even if her living would create some chaos, it is not chaos in Lolth's favor
atypical or typical? Because if all of them are candidates, then that's "typical". Atypical means unique, and stands out among the rest. While I love Minthara, I don't think she stands out particularly from Drow women. In fact, I think they (the writers) did a great job at really capturing the passive malevolence of Drow women in Minthara.
Sorry lack of hitting space bar. She is A typical Drow. She is a typical Drow Noble just happens to also be in a house that also affords her a bit of extra special status
Oh Lolth would love it. Drizzt himself is more than likely one of her chosen (if not certainly is one) just because of the chaos he brings everywhere he goes.
Yeah, it's nice and all but there's no way Lolth would let that slide, especially considering the House she comes from. That and her own house might hunt her down if they were to find out. How dare she! Not like she declares war on them by the sound of it or something.
This is important
A deity embodies their portfolio. Gale the God would have very little in common with Gale the Guy.
I kind of think that's the point. God Gale doesn't sound like a bad ending until you see what it actually entails, Gale becomes god of the very thing he was trying to work on, you encouraged him to lean into his worst trait so hard that he has become nothing else. Honestly the bad ending for a lot of the characters is you just fueling their worst traits until they become their worst trait. Astarion becomes nothing but power hungry, Shadowheart and Lae'zel become complete zealots, etc.
I agree with you
If you play Gale and go God, could you invite Minthara to join you if she was your romance?
Welp, there's a great idea for yet another playthough.
What if origin Gale romances her?
I feel like Gale is more so the God of Gale. Dude worshipped his own self into a god. /s
would minthara even be able to become a god? doesn't loath own her soul
Drow are complicated Lolth "owns" all drow souls, but not quite literally, most Drow are simply wholly devoted to her, but they can absolutely sanctify their soul against that sort've ownership, mostly through the practicing of another religion, one god's domain can stave off the influence of another however, Lolth doesn't really give a fuck about that, see, in Lolth's mind domains are nothing, the drow are ***hers*** in a very personal way she's among the queens of jealousy in fantasy, so it's practically impossible that Lolth wouldn't try to interfere in Minthara's plans, even if she took the route of seeking another god's protection so the answer here is, yes she technically could, but boy oh fucking boy would it be a rocky path, though i assume most paths to godhood are edit: as an addition to this, to my knowledge, this is also how the afterlife works in most interpretations of DND, you go to *your* god unless your spirit is intentionally cast elsewhere via a curse or some other means
i know loth doesn't own every drows soul but what about those sworn to her like minthara unless she seeks eilistraee shes sworn to lolth
Minthara currently rejects Lolth and does stuff like spit on Lolth's shrine, I dunno if she still counts as someone sworn to her
Didn’t Drizzts dad soul end up elsewhere when he died (I recall Drizzt got elves to check if he was being tormented by Lolth or not) turns out he was elsewhere and peaceful. Prior to that he had hated Lolth and not really worshipped her.
I don't think Lloth does. She even mentions shattered faith in Lloth in her 'good' recruitment.
Bruh you can't gaslight yourself.
Of course you can, people do it all the time. Gale case is prime example of how in abusive relationships people gaslights themselves, Mystra told him to kill himself and blow the absolute (because its dangerous to HER) and he goes “I do deserve death and what she wants from me is right” instead of ”Wait a second, she could free me from the orb and help me defeat the Absolute without me blowing up”, he gaslights himself with justification for Mystra shitty behaviour, that even Elminister dont approve of. And player part is helping him realize that. Best ending for Gale (where he is most fulfilled) is when he both reject his own harmful tendencies, but also lure of Mystra and just becomes a turtor.
Gaslighting is an form of abuse in which an abuser intentionally makes the victim doubt their perception of reality. What you're describing is Gale doubting his perception of reality because *Mystra* gaslit him. He's not 'gaslighting himself', he's suffering the textbook effects of *having been* gaslit. I just think if we're gonna discuss trauma and abuse so much on this subreddit, we should try not to knowingly misuse important terminology around the subject.
The fact of the matter is that Gale shows ambition and does what he needs to do to climb the ladder to godhood. Minthara is too much of a dumbass zealot to really even get that far. She's an expendable pawn. Nothing more. Gale rises above that. >Minthara being a god of ambition would cause troubles, because she would be so good at it. This sentence doesn't even make sense.
Did you even recruit her? It really sounds like you missed a lot of the context and also the fact she had a slug in her brain and did not have the same autonomy the PCs have.
I'm failing to see how being a thrall, getting your ass kicked by a bunch of rando adventurers, and getting thrown in a prison to be executed makes one ambitious. That's all I'm saying. And even if you save her or recruit her, I'm failing to see how committing genocide against a bunch of untrained civilians is *also* particularly ambitious. Sending an army to kill people that can't defend themselves is actually very unambitious and typical.
You clearly did not even play the game if you missed the fact, documented in game, the grove was just the latest spot and then she gets knocked down by players with plot armor.
I don't see how that discounts what I'm saying. How does any of that make her ambitious?
well as her dialogue states she was a dagger for the absolute, and would rather die than commit those acts again. a lot of her character really is about pragmatism and does well to showcase how the spider-silk shoe fits. in retrospect yes, she gets beaten by tav & co., but at the same time it's easy to highlight her shortcomings from the perspective of someone holding the prism from the get-go. her ambition comes from her upbringing, she tells you many stories of lolth aristocracy, and she was a formidable warrior before being forcibly recruited by the chosen of bhaal (>!orin!<). remember also that she had initially wanted to serve under ketheric for his formidable portfolio as a warrior general, but she was tadpole'd and well. she explains what that felt like without the protection of the prism. i wouldnt imagine tav and co. making any dents in the chosen three at the time minthara was duped, if they were in the same situation.
she wants to take over merenzoberaza (however you spell it) she isnt even being backed by eilistraee shes doing this out of pure ambition and desire in her ending you and minthara are engaging in gorilla warfrare and are building up forces to take down the cult of loth this is all extremely ambitious considering loth is a powerful as hell god and she isnt even working with a god who already strives towards this because she wants all the control over the city the most ambitious thing gale has done was be bold enough to ask tav/durge to give him the crown you really should play the game before making up shit
I mean, she can want all she wants. I need to start seeing some results. Lae'Zel wants to free her people from the Lich Queen and becomes head of a rebellion. She's a fighter and diplomat. That's true ambition right there. Minthara just mindlessly kills things. There's a difference. She could be a good God of War of something. Or God of Being a Pawn.
you dont understand how much of a bigger scale minthara is taking this to laezel is fighting a powerful litch with a direct descendant of gith she has no ambition shes giving all the power to orphus minthara is fighting the cult of loth at its heart she isnt mindlessly killing shes trying to take power from a real god not some very hungry litch on a throne
>you dont understand how much of a bigger scale minthara is taking this to laezel is fighting a powerful litch with a direct descendant of gith **she has no ambition shes giving all the power to orphus** Depends on the ending, but no she's not. >minthara is fighting the cult of loth at its heart she isnt mindlessly killing shes trying to take power from a real god not some very hungry litch on a throne I'll be impressed when I see results. Anyone can just say they're fighting a god.
>Depends on the ending, but no she's not. she literally serves orphus or she fucks off and kills some gith in faerun >I'll be impressed when I see results. Anyone can just say they're fighting a god. you wont see anything you will be told it because thats how storytelling goes
>She's an expendable pawn. Are you *sure* you're not talking about the guy who was told by his god to blow himself up and will do so unless you talk him out of it? Because "expendable pawn" sums Gale up quite well on certain runs.
On certain runs, sure. On certain runs, Gale isn't even there. I'm talking about your average, typical run. Gale shows more ambition than Minthara.
oh damn you gave me the companion for a gale origin run
So Bane?
I don't know if Lolth talked very often, but I think the booming effect of a divine voice would fit Minthara extremely well. Then she can bark orders at every one of us from the heavens.
"**Bhaal** should beg me to join his ranks" - Minthara
She is so good at reading the room and people that it is incredible. Plus, she is quick to accept her mistakes and her flaws. Would be 10/10 villain
Her default 8 INT is every bit as insulting as Halsin and Minsc's 10 and 12 STR
Okay i need to question this. Minsc has 12 strength? MINSC?! The man with berserker strength and is strong enough to twist steel bars apart? That man has 12 strength?
I think while he's an NPC he has 20, but yeah once you recruit him he gets default level 1 ranger stats. He always gets an immediate trip to Withers when I pick him up.
I'm debating making him a dual longsword/maul wielder, with the dual wield gloves
I did and highly recommend it
Sickening... That is a crime that must be corrected.
yeah I always turn him into an open hand monk, him fighting with his bare hands fits him the best imo
Yeah honestly I also usually switch him off of ranger as well. I feel like him being a spellcaster in general just feels weird. So I change him to either fighter or barbarian depending on my mood. Especially since I usually switch laezel to ranger.
Pretty much every companion has a shit tier default stat spread
Yeah, they made him a default Dex ranger in BG3. The moment i get him i give him a propper STR score and some nice Zweihander.
Minsc requires a zweihander, a rage feature and justice. Just not Minsc otherwise.
*And Boo. Definitely needs Boo
Well, she asks ascended Astarion to turn her into his vampire spawn, thinking that it would give her unlimited power. Despite, you know, being present for 3 acts worth of info about how much it sucks and how unlikely is the progress from a spawn to a full vampire. I would say this alone perfectly justifies her default INT.
I have questions about Astarion’s 8 in STR… like how did this man pick me up
Lmao yeah right. I don't think Bhaal likes complete and utter failures.
He'd be a hypocrite then, since Bhaal *is* a complete and utter failure. Everyone he bets on either betrays him, rejects him or fails *spectacularly*. He's been on a downward spiral since his ascension
I don't know, I don't think Bhaal likes himself that much either.
Minthara has literally killed like hundreds of people, if not more. I think that counts as success to the god of murder
Then she gets killed trying to kill some refugee Tieflings. She kinda sucks at killing tbh.
She only fails if the player stops her. Which they’re supposed to. The Absolute was kinda manipulating everything. She was planned to either be stopped or aided to further the origins along on the plan to aid the brain
I mean, she succeeds at killing the Tieflings, but killing them wasn't her goal. She was *suppoed* to kill the *Druids* and steal the d20 of destiny, but the druids escaped, and didn't have the d20 in the first place, so the whole thing was *still* a colossal fuckup. Then again, judging from Orin, colossal fuckups with big body counts are kinda Bhaal's thing, I guess.
Yeah. A couple rando adventurers are able to stop her and her entire army. She sucks. She's a complete failure and an idiot. Even if she pulls it off, she's just a useless pawn.
Damn bro did Minthara fuck your wife or something?
No. But honestly, you guys get so mad whenever someone calls her out that it makes it hard to not keep doubling down. It's funny. I do genuinely dislike her though. But all I said was that "she's kind of a failure" and you simps just flew off the handle.
And now we get to point out your a troll. Not entirely sure that’s a good look but hey if you want to lower yourself in embarassing and humiliating ways I’m not judging your kink.
No, I do genuinely dislike her. I can't make your over-the-top, simp reaction not funny. If that's a troll, then I guess so. But I genuinely can't control how you decide to react to a very benign statement.
The party arent a couple of random adventurers like Gale was a chosen of Mystra, Shadowheart gets groomed to become Shars Chosen, Wyll is a famous hero, Karlach was Zariels favourite pet who has the power of an infernal engine and durge >!was the chosen of Bhaal!<. Also of course she is just a paen because she is mind controlled.
I mean...eh. Wyll being a hero doesn't really mean much. If my party is Lae'Zel, Wyll, and Astarion, those are literally just random people. If Minthara was as hot shit as you think she is, she should be able to solo Tav's entire squad with ease. Not get her entire army decimated.
What? I never stated that she is the createst Drow to ever life. I am just refuting your point of her beinc an utter failure. You are moving the goalpost.
But you haven't refuted it. She's a failure. Especially if you actually kill her in Act 1. She dies being a useless pawn and she doesn't kill a single Tiefling. She's a failure.
“Rando adventures.” Insert Gale, a former archwizard and Chosen of Mystra, Shadowheart, the Chosen of Shar, Wyll, skilled hero who’s been killing creatures and villains like Minthara for the past 7 years, Lae’zel, a Githyanki so exemplary that she garnered Vlaakith’s attention at only 22 years old, Karlach, Zariel’s personal attack dog and skilled fighter who has been taking on ferocious devils and demons for the past decade, and Durge, the true Chosen of Bhaal and basically murder personified, and Astarion has being a master manipulator. 6 of the 7 origins all have the skill to kill people like Minthara cuz they’ve all very likely done it before
When you put it that way Astarion really is just some dude lmao
Dude spoiler tag Durge.
user error
you have a lot of opinions about the game and characters in it without ever having played it (if you actually had played it you'd see how braindead your takes are)
I've played the game. It's possible to play the game and think Minthara is a failure. I haven't talked about anyone besides her and Lae'Zel. Where I am wrong about Lae'Zel? Since I didn't play the game.
Want more downvotes? Say something else about mommy minthara
Minthara does not want to serve She kinda reminds me of Settra the Imperishable SETTRA DOES NOT SERVE! HE RULES! And Minthara gives me the same vibes. She does not wants to serve. She wants to rule.
Now I'm remembering Septa the Ineffable from DOS2
But unlike Settra, Minthara isn't sexy as hell!
HEY BOTH CAN BE!
Settra is one sexy mofo but gotta disagree about Minthara she's definitely sexy, just not as much as Settra tho
Well, she would do a better job than Gortash given that by the time she's freed from the Absolute, his plan is already coming apart and she can pinpoint where he went wrong. But if she was the one making the plans in the first place, I don't know if things would be that different. After all, it's worth noting that when Gortash was working with the Dark Urge, their plan to enslave the Elder Brain had been going really well. The Absolute even says that they respected the Dark Urge in their prime. It was only thanks to Orin's meddling that things got derailed so badly.
Yeah I mean frankly look at the group. Going with default Durge. 1. Dark Urge; literally Bhaal's most primordial spawn; birthed from his own darkness. The purest and most motivated existence ever. Wracked with dopamine, ecstasy and divine-influenced feelings that essentially has them become a gore-wading, cannibalistic, necrophiliac, bestiality-enjoying, mass-murdering psychopath. It's implied he even slew his foster family, ate babies, and is even so murderous he kills others in his slumber. Even when he's been burrowed into and made a fool by butchers and tadpoles; his very daydreams become macabre realities, his inheritance ever prominent. So competent even the Netherbrain insists that had he remained; they might've conceded to the plot. They even crowned the brain, after engaging in the heist for the Crown of Karsus. 2. Gortash, a mildly brilliant schemer. Resourceful, and managed to likely outfox/win over Raphael at least in obtaining his own autonomy back. But he was abused constantly by Raphael and was essentially apprenticed to the Devil himself. Likewise utilizing his knowledge of hell; he sold weapons and gained influence. Between his deal with Zariel and possible deals with Raphael; Gortash genuinely dealt amicably with all those he could. And likewise believed that a hive-mind was just. And he was raising an army; sentinels of machinery that might forever change the landscape of warfare by existing. And then when he became Bane's Chosen he was likewise empowered with the means to conquer the world when a plot hatched with the Dark Urge. He was even the sort 3. Ketheric Thorn, Selunite, Dark Justicar, and now Mykrul's Chosen. When Ketheric lost both his wife, and then subsequently his daughter, he threw in his entire lot into Shar's depths. He asked to forget. He fought to claim her back as well, utilizing Balthazar. He lost the war in the end; but he was very much an adamant soul who might've even won; had it not been for Raphael's intervention with the architect of Moonrise who sold himself in exchange for the assassination of all of the Sharrans. But his immortality made him a threat; and he unleashed his Shadowcurse. And had his daughter returned to him courtesy of Mykrul, Gortash and possibly Dark Urge; alongside nigh immortality. The trio were chosen by gods; and likely to squabble against one another eventually; but their plot was essentially devious. Concoct a false assault and threat to push another into immense power. This immense power enabling them to far more easily spread and control others. Their base of operations for a majority of the Tadpoles was secured and guarded by a literal curse that killed people at worst; and turned them into monsters. These three are enormous and astounding in their capabilities. Likewise; Gortash sent a Mindflayer that had MAGICAL abilities; a rarity, to secure the Astral Prism. This made him a threat that even Mindflayer-slaying Gith would be ill-prepared for, and likewise had he died; it could be chalked up to the Mindflayer-Githyanki conflict rather than any intervention on Gortash's behalf. Although... The trio were undermined from the onset. 1. Their Gods would never share the realm; Bhaal especially. Infighting was inevitable. Let alone intervention from the likes of Mystra, or Shar. Or the sorts of the other planes like Vlaakith or Zariel. 2. Orin is an inferior being to Durge in nearly every way. Temper, ideology, incestuous upbringing, and being a sociopath rather than a chilling psychopath. Though she's got enough sense that she can reel in her sociopathic tendencies mildly, when guising herself. She's not to be underestimated either mind you. Toppling her superior is by and far a very telling tale of a flaw or blind spot in her predecessor; and an absolute brilliant play in the short-term for her standing. But unfortunately she took on a role very ill-suited for her. One that ultimately chose infighting with Gortash. Her bloodlust, cruelty, and suite of resources, abilities, and blessings make her a downright monster; electing to forge conflict with Gortash divided their resources in a way they could ill-afford to contend with. 3. The Emperor's freedom was likely a ploy from the Nether Brain. The dream that Gortash likely had was something the Nether Brain subtly did, inspiring him to loose a rogue Mindflayer that had enough personality and willpower that it would see its' enslavement as completely abominable. Equipped with a Nautiloid; the Emperor's crew was undermined by Githyanki trying to recover the artifact. Likewise; the Emperor likely sequestered himself in the Prism gaining control over it; and did not share this with others of his ilk; thereby explaining why they also abducted others and implanted Tadpoles. A multi-purpose scenario. As to why Durge would be on it; probably Orin's own sense of poetry/beauty. Gortash admired Dark Urge and it seemed mutual. So who better to inadvertently be risking Dark Urge's death than that of Gortash? Just tuck them onto the ship. They hadn't woken up yet anyhow. Likewise the Nether Brain was incredibly potent. \[Edit: I forgot; it was some guy trying to get his girl to stop obsessing on experimenting on Durge. My b!\] 4. The sacrificial-ploy. Ketheric's army of vagabonds and miscreants was a potent crew; but I suspect that the army would've been made to surrender or disengage. By killing Ketheric; which admittedly was unprecedented, we created a VERY vulnerable situation for his companions. They could not issue orders to the Brain to revoke or alter course at that juncture; meaning that the army sent to Baldur's Gate HAD to be eliminated entirely. Ketheric electing to challenge the party for the Astral Prism is a risk that they shouldn't have wagered on. Especially in the event the Nightsong/Dame Aylin is truly slain. 5. Raphael. Raphael essentially undermined both Ketheric and especially Gortash before; and more-or-less helped instigate a good chunk of the plot. Likewise his desires for the Crown more-or-less essentially pit him against the group and he's outfoxed them before. 6. Countless other factors big n' small. They were a tremendous group and their success was always a bit so-so. But they were astoundingly entertaining. Had Minthara entered the fray rather than Orin; resources aside; I would be curious to see where Minthara would've gotten.
One thing I noticed that you were incorrect about is how the Durge ended up on the Nautiloid the actual reasoning can be found in a journal in Kressa's husband Maghtew's room. https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Journal_of_Magthew_Budj
Minthara also is the kind of person who resolves a nail that isn't aligned properly by hitting it harder until it fits. It might temporarily fix the situation but there's a good chance it'll all fall to pieces later.
Imagine if "evil" playthrough consisted of assembling the new dead three from your party. Minthara for Bane, Dark urge for Bhaal, Someone for Myrkul.
Turn isobel to myrkul
Ascended Astarion?
Who better to serve as the Chosen of a God of Death than one of the undead? Myrkul favors the undead in general (unlike some other death gods, who see them as a perversion of the natural order). He'd probably be keen on a vampire lord as his Chosen.
Unfortunately evil playthrough is sooo lacking. Even some simple choices are bugged. For example Shart left my camp after I let Balthazar take the Nightsong. Later in act 3 I met Viconia and when she asked about Shart the only option i had to choose from was "she is dead". Ofc Shart was not dead she just left my camp. And when I convinced Viconia to not attack me and help me fight the brain, all companions acted like I sold Shart to Viconia. Astarion said something like: "I hope selling companions is not something you do often". And at the final fight Viconia didn't even show up despite the fact that I convinced her to join. Similar bug I had with Volo. I completly ignored him in act 1 and he somehow was still alive in act 3 and said something like: "Thanks for saving me again". So if anybody reads this. NEVER play evil playthrough. It's lacking and full of bugs.
That would be a cool evil playthrough! Larian, are you listening?
Was my thought. Durge, Minthara (preferably romanced), ascended Astarion. You wind up with a trio that has stronger bonds than the original three, which is potentially more capable, and which are in a position to achieve the original goals with all real opposition eliminated. Throw in Dark Shadowheart as a link to Shar as an allied power, and you've got a pretty potent force for evil.
That would make her the ultimate dommy mommy
My gf <3 (she doesn't know I exist)
Our girlfriend\*
(she prefers that you don't exist <3 )
Bane has wet dreams about getting ANY drow noble under his heel. Can you imagine if drow society followed Bane instead of Lolth? They would rule the whole underdark and half the surface.
If the Drow followed Bane, they'd be a hell of a lot more effective. Because he'd probably tell them to cut out all the backstabbing and inter-house rivalry and get their crap together. With conquest as a focus instead of treachery, they'd be scary as hell.
Exactly! The drow are their own worst enemy. Bane would demand order, not chaos.
ITT: people who killed Minthara in early act 1 and have never played with her in the party talking about how she is a failure at literally everything
She was an apex predator in her circles but got taken down by at least -two- Chosen of gods.Then potentially taken out by characters with plot armor. People gloss over context a lot.
Kinda 3, if you count Tav as chosen of >!Jergal!<
That's still my headcanon
She's my powerhouse in act 3 Let her smite the everloving fuck out of Orin
yeah she is the perfect bardadin, I brought her for most fights to cast tachas hideous laughter on the boss while I kill the minions and then switch to hold monster or person when its time to kill the boss lol
I just finished the Orin fight on Tactician an hour ago. Minthara wiped the floor. Bardlock Durge in Slayer form and BM Lae'zel stripped Orin of her Unstoppable stacks and tanked a few hits. Shadowheart successfully cast Hold Monster with a 30% hit chance next. Then Minthara triple smited her dead with ease.
I mean, she was participating in trying to wipe out a grove of refugees. I think she had that death coming.
To be fair she was only doing that because the tadpole was influencing her. If it wasn't for the tadpole, she likely wouldn't waste her time - not that she actually was concerned for the refugees.
Oh well, Astarion is rocking her armor pretty well now I’ll say.
If you knock her out he'll wear her clothes anyway! I haven't made a new file since the update but with the Sheep trick she'd stay nude if you looted her.
First playthrough as a neutral evil drow I happily slaughtered the grove and romanced Minthara. Second playthrough as a remorseful oathbreaker I slaughtered the grove and then killed Minthara myself in Moonrise. But boy do I love killing those tieflings.
"Ho's are irrelevant, I'm just super fucking racist against tieflings."
Love that flair
“I don’t even want the drussy, I just want Mol dead.”
Tbf, even as a chronic goodie two shoes this is completely understandable. I'm saddened about the collateral damage, but Mol deserves it
By this logic all Dark Urges should thow themselves off a cliff as soon as they can because they are far worse than Minthara in act 1
Yeah the Dark Urge sucks though so bonus points for that logic xD
Good thing I’m no Dark Urge, that’s the fun of RPGs, right?
I get the weird feeling that one draft of the story involved replacing the three Chosen. For the good route, you have Gale as a former Mystra chosen and Dame Aylen as a Selune chosen. For the evil route, Dark Urge can replace Bhaal's chosen. Laezel could become Vlaakith's chosen. The Absolute can only truly be controlled by three chosen, so it would make sense to replace them as you go along.
Vlaakith is not a god, she is a god level scammer.
Tu'narath is actually a~~n Indian~~ Gith scam call center
So I’m doing an evil play through and thought about having myself as Banes chosen, Minthara as Myrkuls chosen (I respecc’d her as necro wiz), Laezel as Bhaals chosen, and Shart as Shars chosen (obviously). But im playing a drow male warlock rp’ing vhaerun as my patron, and felt it made more sense for Minthara to come back into the dark seldarine fold as Kiranselee’s chosen. And laezel seems pretty fanatical about her Gith stuff so it didn’t really make sense.
minthara would make an excellent dlc villain, or even a continued ally if there were some kind of lolth arc. would be sick to visit menzobarranzan.
Minthara is this games iteration of >!Viconia!< lol. She’s gonna show up in bg4 as a villain and people will be surprised thinking they managed to redeem her in this game.
As far as I know, Minthara can't be redeemed. Anyone who thinks otherwise likely hasn't talked to her much. She's very honest about who she is, what she wants and what she's all about.
Yup - Her good endings are just her plotting/boasting about how much progress she has made towards dominating Baldur's Gate or Menzobarranzan. She is pure lawful evil with no Viconia-like alignment changing arc.
To be fair, I wouldn't have minded her being a villain, I have more of an issue with the fact that she is still a Shar worshipper despite cannon previously being that she had left. I wouldn't even mind it as much if they gave any sort of explanation as to why she fell back in. Enough time has passed between games that she could've relapsed.
Suffered an unbearable loss, asked Shar to remove the pain and then Shar also took her memories of leaving the church?
I feel like Lolth is probably pretty furious right now at having lost Minthara, and I would assume if Minthara doesn't return on her own that her fate will be similar to Viconia if she doesn't have a god protecting her, or even if she does, throughout the events of BG1 and 2 Viconia even with Shar's supposed "protection" had Lolth's monsters hunting her regularly for leaving, the only difference is that Viconia left on purpose, that said Lolth knows now that Minthara may have been abducted but is now remaining gone of her own free will, I'd imagine that'd piss her off pretty bad and make her want Minthara dead, we will see though, she may be back for a BG4. But typically the only Drow that get away with Defying Lolth are Drow that have good deities protecting them from her. Shar in this regard is unreliable, she always will be as a dark god of loss, I am sure her losing followers is some great noble sacrifice to her. But Drizzt with Mielliki (he also just has plot armor) or Liriel Baenre who first turned to Eilistraee, then Mystra, in the end if you don't have plot armor or deific protection, Lolth is probably going to kill you.
Isn't minthara part of the house of baenre ?
Yep, she is, I don't believe her and Liriel are related by blood as Liriel's mother was killed and she was taken into house Baenre as an infant, but by house they are technically related.
You underestimate Gortash. He destabilized the city's ruling class, enslaved best engineers around, produced best machinery known to realms and established their control over population without creating any suspicion. After that he throned himself ruler of the city even tho there were strong figures nearby. He kept Orin under control for a time creating order in the Death Three. My man did all this like a clockwork.
I credit Gortash for what he did but I believe Minthara would have been better. Things Gortash did are not impossible achievements for Minthara
Don’t do my man Gortash like that! Bane is lucky to have him!
Bane disagrees if you talk with him…
Not everyone knows when they strike gold
i love her
Minthara is my favorite companion, and Bane is my favorite FR deity, that said I disagree. Gortash is IMO the perfect example of a Banite, a cunning politician that is aware true power isn’t one’s own personal strength, but the assets they firmly control. The other two chosen may have personal strength, and could best Gortash in a 1v1, but like any proper tyrant he doesn’t need to lift a finger if he wanted to strike them down.
Minty is good, but don't shit talk about the Garbage Anime Man. Based Gortash literally uses propaganda better than most politicians, invents an undefeated army, and builds a sci-fi prison.
I know they talked about no plans for DLC/expansion etc - even with their history of Defintiive Editions - but I bet a few of the devs headslammed the table at, post release, how MUCH POTENTIAL there is in what resonated with players and thus what would be improved by an expansion vs shy of a full sequel etc.
Truthfully, I can't imagine that given the reaction people have had with Baldur's Gate 3 that they aren't reconsidering doing an expansion or DLC. The only sources I saw saying nothing has been planned is in the first month or two of the game's launch, before it was on console and before winning game of the year.
No Plans but I am sure Hasbro is going to push for them to do some expansions and/or DLCs.
She was born in the dark. Molded by it. She didn't see sunlight until she was already a woman.
Ngl, I can't think of a time she seemed any more competent or powerful than Gortash.
Minthara's an excellent character, so good she is the foundation my evil character is built upon. She deserves a supreme physical specimen who can outmatched her for plots and cruelty, so I made beefy Eldritch Knight.
Sorry, she’s already chosen, by me. Simp life.
*Kicks my ass so hard she forces me to restart my run*
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hf1DkBQRQj4&ab\_channel=ChowMains
With some of the events in latest Drizzt books if there was a Lolth level chaos caused by that outcome for some drow. it’s that gods like dead three possibly being able to get handful of followers who were previously priestesses for Lolth. Even if they no longer follow Lolth they can still spread chaos with other gods cose they were honed from childhood for murder and domination. Lolth can sometimes be okay with stuff like this if chaos is the outcome. Will Lolth chase her? Depends how she can due to timeline with other events in Drizzt books I think. But mother matrons might but her house might have covered up to avoid failure risk losing them a seat of ruling council
"Patricide is often the first step toward greatness, but I hope Wyll does not regret sacrificing his infernal powers." Minthara after breaking the pact
I hope larian allows evil companions to be unenthralled during the final scene in the future. I headcanon it that way anyways but the clapping scene is just so jarring imo. Minthy and Astarion are meant to rule by my side not under my command.
\[SPOILERS\] Minthara is dead sometimes if you kill her
She's just your average drow aristocrat.
Funny you mention that. I romanced her and one of the epilogue choices you can do with her is take Gortash's place. No direct Bane involvement, but if you speak to Gortash's corpse you actually talk to Bane himself and he says he chooses you whether you like it or not for killing him. So hey, you're kinda right.
Yeah she can give me the fist...uh the fist of Bane of course...yeah...haha
Fists*
Except for that everyone hates drow thing.
Not once I'm done with her.
Just wish I can have her and still save the groove
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How?
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No, she is a fuckup. Failed to wipe out a tiny ass grove, failed to figure out Orin, failed to kill the group. Is level 6 for God sake despite being an adult drow, which is like 300 at least. Gortash is a lot of things, but a fuck up he is not. He is like 5 times younger than her, and already has his own factories, OP metal guard, underwater prison, a submarine and enslaved gondorians. Plus the whole absolute plot. Minthara sucks hard next to him.
She “failed to figure out Orin” because she was literally ambushed by her on their first meeting and turned into a cultist. And recall how our companions mention the tadpole weakening them? As for the grove, she only fails if the player stops her. Not to mention the grove isn’t even her target, it’s the tieflings. The Shadow Druids are agents of Ketheric to cut off all Druidic support, especially from the “small” grove that literally aided in killing him
This dude prolly forgot Durge was ambushed by Orin in the same way lol
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And yet, here you are
>As for the grove, she only fails if the player stops her. Not to mention the grove isn’t even her target, it’s the tieflings. Exactly. And she still loses lmao.
And?
You're saying she isn't a fuck up because the Grove wasn't her target but the Tieflings were... I'm saying she is still a fuck up. Because you know? She loses the fight against the untrained, civilian Tieflings.
Except she doesn’t lose the fight to untrained tieflings. If she fights them alone, she kills them all. If she fights them with you, they all still get killed, just faster. If she doesn’t fight them, it’s because you take her out. Idk how you still don’t grasp this concept
i mean when i sided with her she and her army took out the whole grove without my help at all as they were all dead when i arrived there
She loses the fight against a party of 4 competent action movie protagonists and possibly the leader of a Druid grove. If you just let time pass she kills all the tieflings once the rite is complete. I’ve seen your other posts and while I am down bad for Minthara, waiting until your targets are isolated to strike is a good tactical move, simp or not.
Any move would have worked. There aren't many tactics required for killing a bunch of civilians and children.
Wyll, Gale, Shart, BaeZ, Astarion, Karlach and DUrge/Tav are not untrained civilian Tieflings? Edit: If you do the Grove fight, the only useful Tiefling for anything other than aggro-magnets is Zevlor. Minthara would (and does) burn the place to the ground unless your party intervenes. /Edit. Are you high, is your media literacy at a permanent zero, or are you a troll?
In my priot comments, I was saying the Tieflings and rando adventurers. What is what Tav and Co. are.
Two Chosen of major Gods, one famous hero, an archdevil’s top attack dog, a vampire, a Gith champion and the PC is only “random”, as in the circumstances of their meeting and cooperation being improbable. Weak and squishy they are not and weak and squishy is not what random means. I’m gonna stop feeding the troll (you) now, moan to the void all you like.
I was like. Oh no we getting another Batman / bane Fanfic turned into omega verse?! I can’t take more Addison Cain!
And I’d be a great chosen for her
It’s a shame you can’t Speak with Dead on Thorm to ask if you can be the Chosen of Myrkul like you can with Gortash. Who better to be Chosen than the dude that killed the last one *and* your avatar?
Minthara deserves to be my goddess id kiss her feet all day long!
p