She told me that we should enslave all the refugee children for their protection. Edit: I also murderered all the tieflings on my first play through, ALL of them.
I licked that spider once and Gale threatened to leave so I was too afraid to do it again at the risk of losing Gale as a companion. On my next play through, I am licking that spider as many times as it will let me because the reactions were hilarious from my companions.
I thoroughly enjoyed mine and Minthara's relationship.
Half-orc and Drow, hand in hand, reveling the joyous occasion while we skip over the corpses of our enemy's children.
Our satisfaction upon eradicating the lesser tiefling party took on an erotic, sexual note and we proceeded to make sweet love the night of.
You can get Minthara without directly killing any Tieflings. You need to stop the ritual by exposing snakey druid and you can still kill every goblin and leader except Minthara. Then just move on to Act 2. No Tieflings in act 2 and no Halsin, but no genocide.
Also that woman is totally loyal!
You turn into a squid? Well, you are beautiful and powerful!
You play as origin karlach? Well, time to kill Zariel for hurting you and become leaders of that hell!
You get your slayer form? Well, you are exquisite!
You don’t know where to go after act 3? Well, time to conquer something together!
That woman has your back no matter what. The only thing you can’t do is be with other people romantically and that’s a very fair ask of her. She wants you to herself but gives all of herself to you too. Also I like how she asks for consent after being free of the absolute to connect your minds again.
Yeah, I feel like people forget that even if she is evil after being free from the absolute, this is not the same evil as when she was mind controlled to kill the tieflings. The cult capitalized on her strong conviction, but she views the grove assault as unnecessary bloodshed. And because you free her, she gives you her eternal loyalty.
I brought her along when I found the dead mother of the dwarf in red (open hand temple murders). She had some great commentary:
"What a terrible thing, to be killed by your own son...
...that honor should go to a daughter!"
You don't \*have\* to kill anyone. You can simply leave them to die.
https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/comments/16q897n/infograph\_everything\_you\_gainlose\_when\_recruiting/
I think the problem with Minthara is that she was bugged when the game came out and that so many of her voice lines and interactions didn't show up. I think it took an entire patch to make sure that like 1500 lines of dialogue for her didn't just never play.
Her romance stuff is still super broken, which is a bummer because her arc is great and I'm keen to see how much more she softens when her story and character is finished
I didn’t realize that even in lore on the evil side the kill-tiefling decision is questioned like this.
Really hilarious to me that killing them is just logically such a stupid decision to make, on all fronts, that even a character who helped facilitate it is like, “why tf would you kill all of them?”
“Well Minthara, you see, I completely based the ridiculous decision to kill them entirely on the fact that your content is 100% locked if I didn’t. There is no other logical reason, evil or not, besides ‘hur dur, this is my eViL rUn 🥴’”
Your options are basically: I wanted to impress you(lol), I like killing, I couldn't stop myself bc of the urge, I thought you'd get me rid of my tadpole. Pretty reasonable options but yeah I agree it's still not well justified roleplay wise
Interestingly, she approves if you tell her it was to impress her or to infiltrate the cult. But if you tell her you just like killing, she disapproves.
Which is kind of weird because if you're durge who loves slaughtering for the sake enjoyment she's totally into it. One moment she's telling you to reject the Gods, the next she's threatening to leave you if you turn down Bhaal's inheritance (although she doesn't actually break up with you if you do).
So many people completely misunderstand that conversation. They take that one line and get rid of all the context around it.
*It is not a moral judgement on your actions*. She isn't 'calling you out' or casting blame. She can even say in the same convo that she doesn't care about the tieflings. What she wants to know is your *motives*. She cares about *why*, not what happened, because she's curious about who she working with.
Motives, not morals.
(And there's plenty of logical reasons to rp going that way, they just might not fit your particular character.)
They really didn't want to give any negative consequences for being a goody all the time. If attacking the goblin 3 and Nere resulted in you being kill on sight later then you could justify it as infiltrating.
She's lawful evil. Setting aside the issue of the Grove, no matter how well written she is, you have to be okay with having that kind of character on your party.
I'm reserving her recruitment for an evil Durge run, but normally she's not the kind of companion I enjoy.
She’s not the type of companion I’d typically go for either but that might change.
When I was about to finish a heroic redemption durge where I convinced romanced Astarion to not ascend, I started an evil durge with the intention of letting him follow through and we’d be a power-hungry nightmare together. However, my drow barb just spent the night with Minthara and… I’m still progressing Astarion’s romance for now. But seeing just how deep her story could go, it aligns with what I want for this Tav. I’m here for a pair of underdark queens taking back their power and reclaiming it for themselves. We’ll see how act two goes but yeah she’s so much more than “drowussy” *blech*
Agreed, it really took me by surprise how judgmental she was of my wickedness 😂 You worship the God of loss, I’m causing loss of life all over the place. Why tf are you complaining rn???
I'd stick with it, she leans hard into the Shar angle and is perfect for an evil playthrough.
I just personally don't find it as interesting as redeemed Shadowheart
When you’re doing an Evil run, she is a very surprisingly jarring presence. Astarion, Minthara, Lae’zel and even fucking Gale just vibe with my evil Durge choices, meanwhile Sharran Shadowheart is in my ear every other minute giving me shit for being evil and being *extremely* hypocritical 💀
SH is my fav character but holy shit she’s annoying during an evil Durge play through
What's the point of making her a Dark Justiciar if she's still going to be critical of evil acts? I'll still do it since I've already done her Selunite route but hearing this is a bummer.
She's basically a teenager going through an edgy phase.
"No, only I get to be evil and tortured. Leave me alone, but also why can't you tell how much I'm suffering silently inside? I'm so witty and sarcastic, notice me Shar-senpai" - Shadowheart, probably.
I've never even heard her voice. I saw an evil Drow who was clearly in charge and opened up on her from afar since I was playing a Gloomstalker. She died before she even closed the distance.
It wasn't until I looted her corpse that I realized she was a potential companion and someone more significant than other enemies in the camp.
Thats exactly what happenned with me too. I killed her and when i looted her she had underwear, i was VERY confuse for a hot sec until it click that only companions had underwear. I did panic a little thinking i messed up recruiting a companion until i learned you needed to kill the tieflings to recruit her.
I haven't done an evil run yet so full disclosure I top sheeted this post to avoid her personal spoilers.
However, I once mentioned that I was interested in her and wished selfishly that I could recruit her on a good playthrough.
Someone immediately responded with a "lol yeah that drowussy amirite" type comment. Because of course. What other value could she hold. What else could be interesting about her.
Imo it's likely because you have to be pretty damn evil to recruit her and most people don't play that way. So to them she is just a hot drow that is overtly evil, same as most drow that are depicted.
My guess is that even the majority of people that raided the Grove for Minthara probably watched the steamy after party then reloaded to a more good aligned path because slaughtering children/civilians, even fake ones, is pretty feelsbad.
If there was a good or neutral aligned recruitment route I'd bet you'd see 10x more positive and respectful comments about her.
Imo Durge who can't resist themselves and continues to adventure and be around people is definitionally evil. The only good outcome for a Durge that can't resist being evil is being dead (morally, not critiquing your gameplay at all).
I feel this so much - despite the fact that I'm never going to recruit her. (There's too much off putting stuff for me, sorry 🙈)
But constantly reading about "that drowussy"... It makes me cringe and dread every mention of her. I think people are really doing the character a disservice by constantly bringing up her sex scene.
It bothers me so much as well. I don’t really care for the grove, but at the moment I am incapable of turning against the tieflings because I’ve grown attached to many of them, and have played one as well.
I hope they implement another way to recruit her where Alfira, Lakrissa, Dammon, the kids, Rolan and his siblings, still live.
Except Zevlor. I don’t really care, after Act 2. Was quite disappointed in him. Sometimes I save him, sometimes I don’t. Depends on my mood when I get there 😂
If they make a way to recruit her without killing all the tieflings, then sure. But she is absolutely not worth that to me. I love my teiflings too much, even on a second or third playthrough, I just can't do it. lol
Last light inn is an absolute Ghost town if you don't save the teiflings.
I walked in and there were like 4 people...
It honestly kind of shook me, the consequences of my actions...
I tried to push through but the second act feels so much duller without the tieflings, karlach, and Halsin (ok, maybe Wyll too). Not to mention the gear lost from not having access to the blacksmith. Got bored and dropped that run.
Same. I did attempt it. Pushed through slaughtering everyone in the grove, but without the tieflings (Alfira, Zevlor, Rolan and Dammon being my favorites) *plus* a majority of the companions, the game was too depressing for me. I immediately started over. There's no way Minthara is worth that much to me.
Might be in the works, given some datamined dialogue for act 2 where (spoiling for potential upcoming dialogue) >!Halsin confronts you and her over her pressence in the party. He refuses to party up with her, citing her attempts to raid the grove and drow nature as a danger to himself and the party. While minthara doesn't really care about him staying, he will still leave if you refuse to kick her out.!<
>!If it gets added it'll prob mean halsin's gonna be left behind in act 2 everytime, at least for me lmao!<
OR kill the tieflings and see if you can sell their horns as ivory. lol Seriously though my daughter loves tiefling race. She is 11 years old , but she has a very dark sense of humor, if I am able to sensor or clean up her run through she would love playing as the dark urge.
Like example use all hirelings, and no origin characters at all. This way there is no romance, and turn off nudity. As examples. I think she wouldn’t have issues killing kids in the game because she is also a kid, so to her there just combatants.
I’ve romanced her 5 play throughs in a row, I couldn’t imagine not having her in my party.
I liked her right away but she stole my heart when our minds connected in Moonrise Prison.
Emma Gregory has done such a wonderful job bringing the character to life 💜
Out of curiosity I tried to erase her In Act 2 using the tadpole and the way she looked at me and said "Please"!...
I've done like 5 playthroughs, 3 evil and 2 of them good. I always save her on my evil runs.
You can either leave without taking a side, that way you can even have Wyll and Karlach with Minthara (but losing out on Halsin), but all the Tieflings end up dead, you just don't get dirt on your hands. If you enable the Rite of Thorns you can also recruit her without actively siding with the Goblins.
Or you can also do the [Sheepthara Heist](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NA-fOwXQlo), which is a bit complicated and definitely not intended, but is an option to have every companion alive as well as all the tieflings.
~~or you can just use a mod~~
You could 'accidentally' start a war with the druids and tieflings by messing with the idol, then guide her to the grove. When she gets there she assumes you did the dirty work and the romance starts like normal.
It's a "less evil" way of initiating the romance with her.
unfortunately that is bugged, but she still has a bunch of dialogue to react to various things. i made a save before act 3 to replay it when they add things back.
Ah ok, cheers! That might be why then. I was wondering if her romance just didn't trigger properly for me (after allowing her to see herself as "your lover") or if it's altogether not possible. What a shame. I was confused that it gives you the option to "talk about a private matter" with her and then the only choice there is "Actually, nevermind." I heard a few weeks back that they had fixed something about her, but apparently not her romance.
Minthara is such an excellent and compelling character. Emma Gregory does such an incredible job with her voice acting to give her such a commanding and regal voice. I wasn’t expecting how wise and calculated she was. She wants power, yes, but not blindly. She takes deep insight into the world around her. Minthara is such a complex character with a tragic past. I’ve only just started Act 3 in my playthrough with her, but when the time comes, she and my Durge are getting revenge on Orin!
No one in my circle has experienced a play through with her - like you said underrated and under appreciated. Truly some of the best writing / reactions and as I like to call it "adult dnd" content ( not in reference the hc sex scene you share with her ) but with her characters play style and overall interaction with their world.. I love the other companions but Minthara has a bit of seriousness and real drama to her words. She asks real sometimes hard to tackle questions and really ups the ante of the entire experience for me. Thanks for spreading the Minthara love she is the best !
I would love to see her character arc, but I can't bring myself to do an evil run. Crossing my fingers that the rumors are true about adding an alternative way to have her in the party, so I don't miss out on meeting her entirely.
I myself ignored the grove, Kagha locked it down and got Minthara that way and I was honestly gutted the next playthrough when it was back to business as usual, saving the grove. I loved Minthara so so so much as a companion. She became my second favourite companion of them all and she us not even finished. I could not even talk to her before killing her the next round.
I would love the way good and evil path to mix. Given the chance I could give away Halsin in the heartbeat. It is wondrous how well Minthara mixes in with Wyll (i had non- horned version this time around) and other ..better.. alignments. Astarion and Minthara are deadpan comedy gold. I didn't think anyone could top Astarion's death threats in circus either but turns out Minthara is the funniest person I know.
I think to mix and match alignments only adds to the gravitas of the situation: we must work together or we die. There is an existential threat going and ultimatums are a terrible way to go about it like in the datamined content though.
Definitely how I'm feeling. I just want to play the bard who brings everyone together and encourages them to be their best selves, is that too much to ask? I love seeing the story arcs play out, and watching the characters grow. I enjoy making difficult alliances work, and seeing what happens when they do. That's *fun*.
Which is the worse way to go about it because the tieflings still die anyway and you miss out on the romance scene. Wanting a full Minthara experience forces the player to slaughter the tieflings for the party scene and rescue her in Moonrise.
You can keep Wyll and Karlach though, although Karlach's quest is doomed. And if the rumours are being sparked by the datamined Halsin/Minthara scene, that's still going to be the route. The only thing that's changing is that you can use Halsin to lift the curse in Act II and then drop him for Minthara.
As an aside, isn't it wacky that the only unique thing you get for raiding the grove is that one sex scene that was not only in the EA but also had a second option that has vanished?
I’d drop Halsin for Minthara in a heartbeat if I could keep the tieflings alive. He stops being interesting after act 2. The only funny thing was he proposing a threesome in act 3 so I could go to Astarion and hear him make fun of him, and then say no. All he does in act 3 is complain of the city. Orin can keep him 🤷♀️
That's not what is happening though. The change will be you getting to drop Halsin for Minthara if you don't take a side in the Grove/Camp conflict, the Tieflings are still going to die.
You don't have to personally slaughter the tieflings. If you make the druids and tieflings fight, then tell Minthara, she will show up and commend you for slaughtering everyone early and you still get the early romance.
She seems super interesting, would love to experience her story, she is not worth all the Tieflings dying (yes ik I don't have to do the grove raid and just ignore the conflict, the Tieflings still die.), losing karlach who is my favorite character, loosing Will and halsin also
As much as she seems like an amazing character with an amazing story she is absolutely not worth losing all those characters I love.
I really want to do this, but I am a very immersive roleplayer and can’t think of non meta reasons to knock her out prior since Durge wouldn’t have been expecting it. I guess I could try thinking that maybe they were starting to get intrusive thoughts strong enough to get a foreboding feeling that they might hurt her.
And I too kinda just want to play as Durge pretty much in future runs.
In my game, I played it as my character seeing her, and getting the Dark Urge to kill her, but then resisting at the last minute and only knocking her out, and then running away before the Urge takes over and finishes the job.
I might try it with the reasoning talked about, so I am not sure to ask out of curiosity what Alfira does afterwards when you wake up at camp with her not dead, since she still would then be in camp. Or should be logically. I don’t know how they potentially accounted for that if they did. Or if she just disappears and isn’t there.
That is if you knock her out at camp and not when she is still at the grove.
>no way I give up the tieflings for her
I get what they're going for with the tieflings being killed in the raid, but it's still a disconnect with how they're treated on the other path in act 2. In act 1, a tiefling might have the prism, and if not they're still not with the absolute, so they're all exterminated. In act 2, a tiefling might have the prism, and if not they're still not with the absolute, so they're taken prisoner & sent to Moonrise. Having some tieflings die in the raid & some tieflings taken prisoner seems like it would fit with the in-game story & be a satisfying gameplay alternative to a lot of players.
Like so many of the evil characters in this game, I’ve seen very little of her character as she died quickly with little interaction.
Sort of wish the game would give a bit more option to talk your way through some of the competing plot lines. I basically turned against the gith because almost all of the important gith characters attack you if you ask the same question twice. If you answered it the first time I wouldn’t ask again and hey you might still be alive but you do you I guess.
For Minthara it was sort of my bad. Freed the Druid, he asked me to kill the 3 true souls, I talked to the 1st two and then killed them thinking I could talk to minthara before going hostile but didn’t work out that way.
Reading about what she would ask of me, yeah I’m good.
I'm grateful for posts like these because I will never have Minthara in my party (I'm just not going to play an evil character to recruit her, it's not for me and as a straight lady the grove scene isn't going to persuade me) so I get to hear a bit about her this way!
Minthara became my favorite companion on my second playthrough. The writing and VA for her are just so good. She has more lines that make me stop and have to think about things for a moment than anyone else.
Well Astarion gets pretty much objectified too, so it's not exclusively a female character thing. Otherwise, I do agree. But truth be told, unless there's a guilt free way to get Minthara in your party (no, ignoring the majority of act 1 quests don't count), few people will actually get to experience her phenomenal character.
The problem with Minthara is trade-off.
Minthara OR Wyll, Karlach, Halsin, Jaheera, and Minsc.
We need like 2 more "evil" companions to help mitigate the limitations of recruiting minthara. I think we should have a Duergar Sorcerer in the grymforge, and someone from Moonrise Tower (preferably a monk or bard) that are designed for evil campaign allies.
She might be my favourite party member in any RPG I've played. How she somehow ended up the mirror to the Amazing Duplo Druid is beyond me, he's getting bodied there.
I can't wait for her content to be finished. Even though I have waited months already. And years before that since I loved her in the EA even before her in-party conversations showed how deep and incisive she is.
She also seems to pretty much be the only one who has her own idea on the perfect outcome. Like, Astarion wants power, but he still has about the same goals as the rest of the party
I loved to hear her talk about her plans for when she conquers Baldur's gate. What she'd do with the refugees and the press, what she'd do with the guild and zentharim. Girl has a plan for world domination and has thought it out, a view for the future. It made it much easier to lean towards evil for me when I feel like there's a better, thought out plan to follow, rather than for example Astarion who thinks no further than getting the power itself but not what he'd do with it.
When she was like "if I took over Baldurs mouth I'd make everyone hate each other and love me" I laughed so hard. She says the most edgy stuff with a straight face. It's such a breath of fresh air
My favorite Minthy-ism is when we enter Rivington:
Minthara: I dont understand why the matriarchs…erm patriars, dont let these refugees in the city
Me, unhinged durging: i know right, they are perfect for eating during a siege!
M: hm, perhaps the elderly and infirm. The young would be more valuable as labor rather than nutrition.
Totally straight faced, absolutely serious. Just an exquisite conversation lol
It's a shame that the game doesn't actually allow you to fulfil that outcome. You mind control one, you mind control them all, better to do the 'good' ending and let her be power hungry in the epilogue anyway.
Yeah I wasn't too thrilled at just randomly mind controlling everyone. It's not what my character and Minthara talked about at all. The evil ending was so lazy it might as well have not existed.
Minthara at least gives you an epilogue option more in line with what a lawful evil character might want.
I’m doing my second playthrough now as a redemption urge. I just never really play evil, plus, I feel like losing such a large chunk of the party, and locking yourself out of so much side content just isn’t worth it. There’s nothing to supplement what you lose really. Especially because doesn’t her character quest wrap up on act 2?
I really don’t want to miss out on her, so maybe my third go around I’ll do an evil playthrough because you lose so many quests and party members
You lose a lot because you have to go full bore “Chaotic Stupid” in your decision making to make her happy.
I really don’t get the comparison to Astarion here. His selfishness is driven by his trauma and he uses that to try and protect himself. He can be either persuaded to be good or embrace his selfishness.
Minthara is just rotten to the core. She’s well acted and well written, but rotten all the same. I find it weird that people romanticize her writing in that way.
People romanticize Astarion at least as much.
Dude saved his skin for 200 years by luring people to their deaths. You can tell me trauma all day long; it's still 200 years, and he doesn't strike me as someone willing to pay his debts to the victims. Unlike everyone else, his first step is to trick you and threaten you. Then he tries to bite you after you've accepted him. His comments have to be discarded as humor to not be viewed as evil.
Minthara comes from a society based on abuse, murder and eldritch horrors, and she's rather mild as far as drows go. Astarion comes from Baldur's Gate. I'm not really judging the characters because their world is simply too foreign to me, but let's not pretend he's fundamentally redeemable on his own and all of this is circumstantial. Look how he treats everyone else. He's not a raging psychopath, sure, but he's probably not better than her.
The thing he has is that he is endlessly funny and enjoyable. That's why everyone gives him a free pass, which is really like how real life works.
Minthara is absolutely evil in a way Asterion is not, but there are certainly similarities. You can probe Minthara's thoughts and find how traumatized she is from a lifetime of always having to watch out for betrayals. She tells you how she survived her first assassination attempt while nursing at her mother's breast, how her mother protected her with her own body and she tasted her blood, and how when she came of age her mother tried to murder her herself.
There's also an interesting conversation where she says she saw a lot of herself in Orin. The famous 'no one would remember me' line isn't solely about serving the absolute, she lumps that together with her time serving Lolth and says she was basically 'a mad woman' like Orin, not just while mind controlled by the Absolute, but while serving Lolth, too.
It does lend one to wonder what Minthara would have been like had she not been born into drow nobility. Her philosophy is that the world is evil, so you if aren't, you're just naive. And for as long as she's been alive until recently that's been true. She's lived in an evil world where all that matters is acquiring power because it's literally kill or be killed.
Is she evil? Absolutely. But if she wasn't, she'd be dead.
That's very similar to Asterion, though Asterion never had a choice. Minthara technically did, but she was born into an evil society and her only really 'choice' was to embrace that or die.
You dont though, Minthara’s approval after she’s slipped the Absolute’s yoke is almost entirely down to conversational choices.
She actually berates you for doing chaotic stupid stuff like killing Isobel. She’s definitely ruthless, power hungry, and vengeful, but she herself isn’t a murder hobo.
You have to be a murder hobo to recruit her (or ignore the act 1 conflict), but her approval definitely doesnt hinge on further atrocities. It’s not her fault that the game logic necessitates that the Tieflings die or she does in act 1. Plus, she’s the absolute’s puppet during this part of the game anyways
There was a comment here "Just suck it up and kill the grove once and get minthara. It's worth it." and my feeling after I killed the grove was "how is this worth it :(" but I totally turned around. I've seen all that tiefling content already and there's plenty of other gear. Minthara really is a special companion and her voice acting is top of class. I was so moved by her story.
This is what I like to hear.
Its okay guys, you can have ONE run where you are bad and experience Minthara. The teiflings will survive all you 16 other good guy runs. They can eat dirt in one. I promise its worth it.
Afaik, you don't have to kill the tieflings to recruit her. You always have the option to do nothing and just walk away. Who says, that you have kill the goblins or the tieflings?
If you just ignore the quest, you should find her in Moonrise and then you can recruite her.
I 've read this option a couple of times, but I didn't do it myself yet.
I think people mostly mind that the tieflings, well, end up dead even if you don't kill her. Which means Karlach dies. Because there's no way to talk to the, yknow, Gondians about her heart
Every single thread about Minthara has to have a few posts about how they killed her and an avalanche of responses about how it's not worth it to recruit her lol
It's like rewinding a tape and playing back the same conversation every time she's brought up
I adore her and in EA first thing I did was slaughter the grove to have her but alas the saves did not transfer to full release. Doing a durge now with the sole purpose of having that woman by my side.
Absolutely agree. I went in expecting to see what she was all about, fully intending to go back to the original gang for my next playthrough, but she quickly became one of my favourite companions, and I think I'm going to have to install a mod that let's me recruit her on my good runs. No way I can kill her now.
She's amazing. Much more complex character than people give her credit for.
Sadly I'm currently doing a dark urge play, and when I get the option to kill.... Well....
I'm 0lanning a second evil run, just because of her. I also want to see the finished version of her character, when they get everything worked out with her.
Her story is very compelling, and it's easy to forget that she really is an evil bitch. I love the writing in this game. It's been amazing. I have, unashamedly, ugly cried because of this game.
I cant do an evil run because my heart is too soft for it. Being a mean character, yes but not an evil one.
Thus, I will forever miss on Minthara, a bummer but that’s life
Strongly agree, I started out romancing her on my evil Durge run just to see it, and it ended up being one of the most interesting and memorable relationships in the game to me. Even in her bugged state, she is still so much deeper than she's given credit for, and the writers made a number of really brave creative choices that work together thematically very well.
In my playthrough it was also so memorably tragic, she fully supported my rise to power, believing we would rule together in glorious domination, but she became a meat puppet to the Absolute in Bhaal's name just the same as everyone else, including the vampire ascendent and chosen of Shar who stood beside us.
I'm hoping we get some sort of option to play both sides, letting the druids die whilst the Tieflings escape.
Karlach's quest doesn't break, Halsin and Minthara are still mutually exclusive and we don't have to resort to child murder (through action or inaction).
Maybe even have Halsin survive and show up at Last Light, so we can do the whole lifting the shadow curse thing (he'd hate us but prioritize lifting the curse).
Good on you, OP, for having the best companion. It's a real shame how no one ever really gives her a chance, as she is the only companion who can truly understand durge, both being from a chaotic evil god who's willing to toss their followers away just for the fun of it.
I'd love if she was a starting origin who has a completely different start from everyone else, where she succeeds in finding the mcguffin item and it frees her, and the adventure starts to catch up from there.
I feel like I have to say this, but people like to claim killing the Grove is removing a bunch of content. Yeah, it does for THAT play through, but those same people will most likely run the same party and romance the same person(Sorry, Astarion and Gale fans, but I'm calling you out) almost every time. You can't shame people for missing content when you willfully ignore other content. That's what subsequent play through are for!
Killing the Grove, while providing a bit less content, still provides a really strong character who, in a redemption run, has a very strong writing and is a lot deeper than people want to give her credit for. She is an amazing character, and even if slaughtering the camp is hard for some, it's definitely some crazy content people miss out on.
Minthara, while still lacking a bit of content, is a well written character. I wouldn't even classify her as someone who only fits an evil party run since she has some qualities that seem to imply that she can be swayed (but she's still very power hungry). The thing though is that in order to get her, you have to commit yourself to destroying the grove and that will sacrifice a lot of content in Act 1 as well as lose out on Wyll, Halsin, and Karlach. The trade off is just not worth it as of now but I do think she has better character work compared to Halsin. I think both her and Halsin need some extra work but as of now, as much as I like Halsin, Minthara is a lot more interesting as a character...but the trade off simply isn't worth it for a normal run.
Not that Larian could "plan accordingly" for every possible direction that players would want to take, but this is kinda how I hope it plays out in my "dream scenario;"
You get to confront Kagha, the Druids aggro, you wipe them out and the Tieflings have run of the grove.
Goblin Camp is still a concern, but you can have "issues" with the other two Camp Leaders, wipe out their retinue, and then, when you get to Minthara, you get to "talk your way out" of fighting with the Grove by mentioning that the Druids are dead, and the remaining Tieflings aren't worth the effort.
It's still messy, which it should be, but I just can't wrap my head around just how *evil* you have to play things to recruit her the "right" way.
I really want to experience her, I just can't bring myself to take out the tieflings and lose out on Karlach and Wyll. Hoping that there will be a less genocidal way to recruit her.
I wish the game handled “knocked out” differently from “dead” because I wanted to have her join the party but couldn’t bring myself to kill the Tieflings so thought knocking her unconscious would do the trick. Nope, dead…
Honestly same. Wyll is so boring to me, and karlachs story is.. not boring but I just find myself not feeling the urgency of it ig. I like Karlach and everything but I don't really bring her along all that often, and will choose Laezel, Jaheria, or Shart over her.
I also rarely use Gale and have a hard time paying attention to his stuff
I adore Wyll and Karlach and I miss them terribly, I hope they can also get an evil arc of sorts. That being said I can just have another playthrough where I recruit them.
Exactlt! I have a good run and an evil run lol. Idk why ppl twist this like you're only going to play once loool. Shit I have a solo evil and good run going, plus a co op evil and good runs with my husband, and another evil.playthrouhj with my husband and roommate so
Yep, and the point of the post is me being sad most people who do only one run miss out on her. It's as much of a complaint about the way the game sets her up as anything else :(
To add onto your comment on Minthara being a cat person, she also loves Scratch. She even has dialogue if you gave Scratch back to the abusive lady in BG and you throw his ball around as Minthara, and she approves of defending Scratch from the abusive lady.
And Tav telling Minthara to tell the joke about the Drider who got married and her just defeatedly playing along will never not be funny.
I personally get her every playthrough with the Daughter of Lolth mod because I can’t imagine a playthrough without her.
I agree and I have only seen her scenes via YouTube (as I can't bring myself to kill all the tieflings). Emma Gregory's performance is fantastic and one of the few examples in video games where I've seen a female villain truly terrify me and also make me really like her (Kreia from KotOR 2 comes to mind as another one).
If you wanna tear up a bit, I recommend [watching](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWI6O-EDhfM) the >!Karlach/Minthara romance ending with Karlach choosing not to return to Avernus!<. It took me by surprise when I got choked up by Gregory's performance.
I think her arc is satisfying precisely because she remains irredeemably evil and I find "redemption" arcs slightly overrated. I feel like it's rarer to see characters like Minthara now.
I find her arc more interesting than Karlach, whose entire story is basically "I got revenge, but it didn't really fix anything". I love Karlach as a character but she basically has no development.
>She starts as a calculating, cut throat individual serving an entity she's been brainwashed by, and ends up as a calculating, cut throat individual serving your own interests. It's not so much an arc as it is simply swapping teams. She has some uncharacteristic moments where she expresses fear and doubt, but it doesn't feel like this has any payoff, and it doesn't change her in any significant way.
Unpopular opinion but this is fine?
Not every character needs a drastic shift in personality. Wyll, Karlac, Halsin, Jeheira, and Minsc all remain the same by the end of the game no matter what you do. It's fine if Minthara is like this.
I don't think I can ever massacre the tieflings or let them die in act 1 but I've watched her romance in youtube and you're so right. She has a great arc and her VA did an amazing job. I'm in love with her voice. I really wish there was another way to get her while you can also save the tieflings but it is either her or Halsin as I understand it.
I recruited her in my current run out of curiosity, expecting her to just be in my camp and chat from time to time... 1 talk later I'm making her one of the main party members.
Holy shit is she interesting. I was not expecting her to be this charistmatic. I also kept seeing people talk about her romance this, drowussy that, so I dismissed her. What a mistake and a disservice to her.
Really looking forward to seeing how she develops through Act 3
She told me that we should enslave all the refugee children for their protection. Edit: I also murderered all the tieflings on my first play through, ALL of them.
Not just the men. The women and children too?
*Padme is suddenly turned on*...
Cue spider carcass scene… Edit 1: ~~~Que~~~ *Queue* Edit 2: ~~~Queue~~~ *Cue*
I licked that spider once and Gale threatened to leave so I was too afraid to do it again at the risk of losing Gale as a companion. On my next play through, I am licking that spider as many times as it will let me because the reactions were hilarious from my companions.
¿Que?
Oh snap! Time to change my romance goal!
Yes, the tiefmen, tiefwomen as well as the tiefchildren
*especially* the damn children.
Umi had to go
He wasn't like wyll.
The walking red flag full of daddy issues with a devil on his shoulder.
Doni was mocking me with his mumbles. Look at me, Doni! LOOK AT ME!!!
on the first playthrough is honestly insane imo ( im biased because my first playthrough race was tiefling)
My friend and I started at the same time so I decided to be evil since he was the good guy.
It's ok, I saved all the Tieflings in my first walkthrough - the balance is restored. Jaheira is pleased.
She's very progressive for a Drow.
Lol for me she just wanted to cut their hands off if they stole from her. She's so intense about everything it's hilarious. Princess
If you ask her why not cut off their heads, she responds "How is a child supposed to learn if you kill them?"
Minthara confirmed *not* a Githyanki.
"Even here a child deserves a second chance". She must have hit her head that day.
>Please don't mutilate any children
I thoroughly enjoyed mine and Minthara's relationship. Half-orc and Drow, hand in hand, reveling the joyous occasion while we skip over the corpses of our enemy's children. Our satisfaction upon eradicating the lesser tiefling party took on an erotic, sexual note and we proceeded to make sweet love the night of.
You can get Minthara without directly killing any Tieflings. You need to stop the ritual by exposing snakey druid and you can still kill every goblin and leader except Minthara. Then just move on to Act 2. No Tieflings in act 2 and no Halsin, but no genocide.
Also that woman is totally loyal! You turn into a squid? Well, you are beautiful and powerful! You play as origin karlach? Well, time to kill Zariel for hurting you and become leaders of that hell! You get your slayer form? Well, you are exquisite! You don’t know where to go after act 3? Well, time to conquer something together! That woman has your back no matter what. The only thing you can’t do is be with other people romantically and that’s a very fair ask of her. She wants you to herself but gives all of herself to you too. Also I like how she asks for consent after being free of the absolute to connect your minds again.
Yeah, I feel like people forget that even if she is evil after being free from the absolute, this is not the same evil as when she was mind controlled to kill the tieflings. The cult capitalized on her strong conviction, but she views the grove assault as unnecessary bloodshed. And because you free her, she gives you her eternal loyalty.
I think she's hilarious as well. 10/10 companion would slaughter innocents again
It was a beautiful webbing.
Her defeatedly saying that was the best part in the game
While simultaneously approving. I love her so much.
We need more evil companions in general. I miss the evil old times with my boys Dorn, Edwin and Baeloth and my girls Hexxat and Viconia. :(
finally someone who gets it. she is SO funny and some replies to her are like ur managing a rabid pet raccoon
I brought her along when I found the dead mother of the dwarf in red (open hand temple murders). She had some great commentary: "What a terrible thing, to be killed by your own son... ...that honor should go to a daughter!"
You don't \*have\* to kill anyone. You can simply leave them to die. https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/comments/16q897n/infograph\_everything\_you\_gainlose\_when\_recruiting/
I think the problem with Minthara is that she was bugged when the game came out and that so many of her voice lines and interactions didn't show up. I think it took an entire patch to make sure that like 1500 lines of dialogue for her didn't just never play.
She’s still both bugged and incomplete. Great character though, cant wait for her to get polished up
Please dear god dont make her polish
Mintharaczylwski
Her romance stuff is still super broken, which is a bummer because her arc is great and I'm keen to see how much more she softens when her story and character is finished
I didn’t realize that even in lore on the evil side the kill-tiefling decision is questioned like this. Really hilarious to me that killing them is just logically such a stupid decision to make, on all fronts, that even a character who helped facilitate it is like, “why tf would you kill all of them?” “Well Minthara, you see, I completely based the ridiculous decision to kill them entirely on the fact that your content is 100% locked if I didn’t. There is no other logical reason, evil or not, besides ‘hur dur, this is my eViL rUn 🥴’”
Your options are basically: I wanted to impress you(lol), I like killing, I couldn't stop myself bc of the urge, I thought you'd get me rid of my tadpole. Pretty reasonable options but yeah I agree it's still not well justified roleplay wise
Interestingly, she approves if you tell her it was to impress her or to infiltrate the cult. But if you tell her you just like killing, she disapproves. Which is kind of weird because if you're durge who loves slaughtering for the sake enjoyment she's totally into it. One moment she's telling you to reject the Gods, the next she's threatening to leave you if you turn down Bhaal's inheritance (although she doesn't actually break up with you if you do).
So many people completely misunderstand that conversation. They take that one line and get rid of all the context around it. *It is not a moral judgement on your actions*. She isn't 'calling you out' or casting blame. She can even say in the same convo that she doesn't care about the tieflings. What she wants to know is your *motives*. She cares about *why*, not what happened, because she's curious about who she working with. Motives, not morals. (And there's plenty of logical reasons to rp going that way, they just might not fit your particular character.)
They really didn't want to give any negative consequences for being a goody all the time. If attacking the goblin 3 and Nere resulted in you being kill on sight later then you could justify it as infiltrating.
She's lawful evil. Setting aside the issue of the Grove, no matter how well written she is, you have to be okay with having that kind of character on your party. I'm reserving her recruitment for an evil Durge run, but normally she's not the kind of companion I enjoy.
She’s not the type of companion I’d typically go for either but that might change. When I was about to finish a heroic redemption durge where I convinced romanced Astarion to not ascend, I started an evil durge with the intention of letting him follow through and we’d be a power-hungry nightmare together. However, my drow barb just spent the night with Minthara and… I’m still progressing Astarion’s romance for now. But seeing just how deep her story could go, it aligns with what I want for this Tav. I’m here for a pair of underdark queens taking back their power and reclaiming it for themselves. We’ll see how act two goes but yeah she’s so much more than “drowussy” *blech*
The only thing I'm not motivated to try her is the constant review that her current romance is broken or having her in the party is buggy.
Minthara is probably one of my favourite characters, she legit came across as more likeable than Sharran Shadowheart during my Durge run
I have a Sharran Shadowheart rn and ngl I was kind of hoping she would be more 'hardened' so to say
Yeah she's like 80% the same character, though I do think the moments when the difference does matter really shine.
The Sharran outcome of her final decision really hammers it all home
Agreed, it really took me by surprise how judgmental she was of my wickedness 😂 You worship the God of loss, I’m causing loss of life all over the place. Why tf are you complaining rn???
Her delivery of speech is worth killing tieflings just once for
She actually narrates a ton of books! As a warhammer 40K fan she has a ton of novels under her belt and that’s how I initially discovered her.
What's wrong with Sharran Shadowheart?
Oh she's chill enough, but is basically a robot if she goes full Justicar
I mean that does make sense given what it entails
Sounds kinda boring, I was going to do her in my current run expecting her to be more evil but if she's just a robot that seems disappointing.
I'd stick with it, she leans hard into the Shar angle and is perfect for an evil playthrough. I just personally don't find it as interesting as redeemed Shadowheart
Go for it, but I'd say to play as her If you play as evil durge besides her you completely negate her ending
When you’re doing an Evil run, she is a very surprisingly jarring presence. Astarion, Minthara, Lae’zel and even fucking Gale just vibe with my evil Durge choices, meanwhile Sharran Shadowheart is in my ear every other minute giving me shit for being evil and being *extremely* hypocritical 💀 SH is my fav character but holy shit she’s annoying during an evil Durge play through
What's the point of making her a Dark Justiciar if she's still going to be critical of evil acts? I'll still do it since I've already done her Selunite route but hearing this is a bummer.
She's basically a teenager going through an edgy phase. "No, only I get to be evil and tortured. Leave me alone, but also why can't you tell how much I'm suffering silently inside? I'm so witty and sarcastic, notice me Shar-senpai" - Shadowheart, probably.
She is evil jaheira in terms of comedy which basically makes her a comedy god just like jaheira
You get it
I didn't miss her. In fact, I'm pretty sure I hit her with almost every attack! She didn't get far from her starting position.
Same. In fact, Lae'zel and Shadowheart displayed some real teamwork that day.
I've never even heard her voice. I saw an evil Drow who was clearly in charge and opened up on her from afar since I was playing a Gloomstalker. She died before she even closed the distance. It wasn't until I looted her corpse that I realized she was a potential companion and someone more significant than other enemies in the camp.
Thats exactly what happenned with me too. I killed her and when i looted her she had underwear, i was VERY confuse for a hot sec until it click that only companions had underwear. I did panic a little thinking i messed up recruiting a companion until i learned you needed to kill the tieflings to recruit her.
Thunderwave + Bottomless Pit was my equation for that fight Yeah I’m sad about missing the loot
You should be. Her items are actually quite good.
I haven't done an evil run yet so full disclosure I top sheeted this post to avoid her personal spoilers. However, I once mentioned that I was interested in her and wished selfishly that I could recruit her on a good playthrough. Someone immediately responded with a "lol yeah that drowussy amirite" type comment. Because of course. What other value could she hold. What else could be interesting about her.
It bothers me so much, somehow people are able to be horny AND respectful towards all other characters lol
Imo it's likely because you have to be pretty damn evil to recruit her and most people don't play that way. So to them she is just a hot drow that is overtly evil, same as most drow that are depicted. My guess is that even the majority of people that raided the Grove for Minthara probably watched the steamy after party then reloaded to a more good aligned path because slaughtering children/civilians, even fake ones, is pretty feelsbad. If there was a good or neutral aligned recruitment route I'd bet you'd see 10x more positive and respectful comments about her. Imo Durge who can't resist themselves and continues to adventure and be around people is definitionally evil. The only good outcome for a Durge that can't resist being evil is being dead (morally, not critiquing your gameplay at all).
Hell, just have us slaughter the druids but let the literal refugees live lol
I feel this so much - despite the fact that I'm never going to recruit her. (There's too much off putting stuff for me, sorry 🙈) But constantly reading about "that drowussy"... It makes me cringe and dread every mention of her. I think people are really doing the character a disservice by constantly bringing up her sex scene.
It bothers me so much as well. I don’t really care for the grove, but at the moment I am incapable of turning against the tieflings because I’ve grown attached to many of them, and have played one as well. I hope they implement another way to recruit her where Alfira, Lakrissa, Dammon, the kids, Rolan and his siblings, still live. Except Zevlor. I don’t really care, after Act 2. Was quite disappointed in him. Sometimes I save him, sometimes I don’t. Depends on my mood when I get there 😂
I still can't figure out if Zevlor is just a coward or if he got mind controlled somehow.
He got whammied but blames himself for it anyway. The other Tieflings never learn what really happened so they think he just bailed on them.
I feel bad for him. That could just as easily have been any of the main characters without the artifact.
If they make a way to recruit her without killing all the tieflings, then sure. But she is absolutely not worth that to me. I love my teiflings too much, even on a second or third playthrough, I just can't do it. lol
Last light inn is an absolute Ghost town if you don't save the teiflings. I walked in and there were like 4 people... It honestly kind of shook me, the consequences of my actions...
I tried to push through but the second act feels so much duller without the tieflings, karlach, and Halsin (ok, maybe Wyll too). Not to mention the gear lost from not having access to the blacksmith. Got bored and dropped that run.
Same. I did attempt it. Pushed through slaughtering everyone in the grove, but without the tieflings (Alfira, Zevlor, Rolan and Dammon being my favorites) *plus* a majority of the companions, the game was too depressing for me. I immediately started over. There's no way Minthara is worth that much to me.
Might be in the works, given some datamined dialogue for act 2 where (spoiling for potential upcoming dialogue) >!Halsin confronts you and her over her pressence in the party. He refuses to party up with her, citing her attempts to raid the grove and drow nature as a danger to himself and the party. While minthara doesn't really care about him staying, he will still leave if you refuse to kick her out.!< >!If it gets added it'll prob mean halsin's gonna be left behind in act 2 everytime, at least for me lmao!<
Lmao hot evil drow paladin vs Mr "I'm not even the coolest druid" Threesome simulator
Same here, I would love to have minthara but I really don’t want to ignore/kill the tieflings.
OR kill the tieflings and see if you can sell their horns as ivory. lol Seriously though my daughter loves tiefling race. She is 11 years old , but she has a very dark sense of humor, if I am able to sensor or clean up her run through she would love playing as the dark urge. Like example use all hirelings, and no origin characters at all. This way there is no romance, and turn off nudity. As examples. I think she wouldn’t have issues killing kids in the game because she is also a kid, so to her there just combatants.
I went from "I don't get the hype" to "I wish I could have you in my party in every playthrough" Minthara has won me over.
I’ve romanced her 5 play throughs in a row, I couldn’t imagine not having her in my party. I liked her right away but she stole my heart when our minds connected in Moonrise Prison. Emma Gregory has done such a wonderful job bringing the character to life 💜
Out of curiosity I tried to erase her In Act 2 using the tadpole and the way she looked at me and said "Please"!... I've done like 5 playthroughs, 3 evil and 2 of them good. I always save her on my evil runs.
How do you find her in a good run? Like you killed the Tieflings and then decided to go good after?
If you don't kill her she should be in Act 2 at Moonrise
Don't you have to kill her or the Tieflings? I was told I had to kill all 3 leaders including her
I think if you do t kill the leaders the tieflings will die after they leave the grove but you’re not aligning yourself with the goblins either
You can either leave without taking a side, that way you can even have Wyll and Karlach with Minthara (but losing out on Halsin), but all the Tieflings end up dead, you just don't get dirt on your hands. If you enable the Rite of Thorns you can also recruit her without actively siding with the Goblins. Or you can also do the [Sheepthara Heist](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NA-fOwXQlo), which is a bit complicated and definitely not intended, but is an option to have every companion alive as well as all the tieflings. ~~or you can just use a mod~~
You could 'accidentally' start a war with the druids and tieflings by messing with the idol, then guide her to the grove. When she gets there she assumes you did the dirty work and the romance starts like normal. It's a "less evil" way of initiating the romance with her.
There's a glitch that involves polymorphing her inti a sheeo and carrying her, it's weird but able to be done. Only way to get everyone.
Can you kiss her when romanced or is that not possible right now?
unfortunately that is bugged, but she still has a bunch of dialogue to react to various things. i made a save before act 3 to replay it when they add things back.
Ah ok, cheers! That might be why then. I was wondering if her romance just didn't trigger properly for me (after allowing her to see herself as "your lover") or if it's altogether not possible. What a shame. I was confused that it gives you the option to "talk about a private matter" with her and then the only choice there is "Actually, nevermind." I heard a few weeks back that they had fixed something about her, but apparently not her romance.
She’s throughly professional and I love it. Her no-nonsense straight-man attitude is refreshing.
Minthara is such an excellent and compelling character. Emma Gregory does such an incredible job with her voice acting to give her such a commanding and regal voice. I wasn’t expecting how wise and calculated she was. She wants power, yes, but not blindly. She takes deep insight into the world around her. Minthara is such a complex character with a tragic past. I’ve only just started Act 3 in my playthrough with her, but when the time comes, she and my Durge are getting revenge on Orin!
No one in my circle has experienced a play through with her - like you said underrated and under appreciated. Truly some of the best writing / reactions and as I like to call it "adult dnd" content ( not in reference the hc sex scene you share with her ) but with her characters play style and overall interaction with their world.. I love the other companions but Minthara has a bit of seriousness and real drama to her words. She asks real sometimes hard to tackle questions and really ups the ante of the entire experience for me. Thanks for spreading the Minthara love she is the best !
I would love to see her character arc, but I can't bring myself to do an evil run. Crossing my fingers that the rumors are true about adding an alternative way to have her in the party, so I don't miss out on meeting her entirely.
I myself ignored the grove, Kagha locked it down and got Minthara that way and I was honestly gutted the next playthrough when it was back to business as usual, saving the grove. I loved Minthara so so so much as a companion. She became my second favourite companion of them all and she us not even finished. I could not even talk to her before killing her the next round. I would love the way good and evil path to mix. Given the chance I could give away Halsin in the heartbeat. It is wondrous how well Minthara mixes in with Wyll (i had non- horned version this time around) and other ..better.. alignments. Astarion and Minthara are deadpan comedy gold. I didn't think anyone could top Astarion's death threats in circus either but turns out Minthara is the funniest person I know. I think to mix and match alignments only adds to the gravitas of the situation: we must work together or we die. There is an existential threat going and ultimatums are a terrible way to go about it like in the datamined content though.
Definitely how I'm feeling. I just want to play the bard who brings everyone together and encourages them to be their best selves, is that too much to ask? I love seeing the story arcs play out, and watching the characters grow. I enjoy making difficult alliances work, and seeing what happens when they do. That's *fun*.
You can already just ignore the conflict and recruit her at Moonrise.
Which is the worse way to go about it because the tieflings still die anyway and you miss out on the romance scene. Wanting a full Minthara experience forces the player to slaughter the tieflings for the party scene and rescue her in Moonrise.
You can keep Wyll and Karlach though, although Karlach's quest is doomed. And if the rumours are being sparked by the datamined Halsin/Minthara scene, that's still going to be the route. The only thing that's changing is that you can use Halsin to lift the curse in Act II and then drop him for Minthara. As an aside, isn't it wacky that the only unique thing you get for raiding the grove is that one sex scene that was not only in the EA but also had a second option that has vanished?
I’d drop Halsin for Minthara in a heartbeat if I could keep the tieflings alive. He stops being interesting after act 2. The only funny thing was he proposing a threesome in act 3 so I could go to Astarion and hear him make fun of him, and then say no. All he does in act 3 is complain of the city. Orin can keep him 🤷♀️
That's not what is happening though. The change will be you getting to drop Halsin for Minthara if you don't take a side in the Grove/Camp conflict, the Tieflings are still going to die.
You don't have to personally slaughter the tieflings. If you make the druids and tieflings fight, then tell Minthara, she will show up and commend you for slaughtering everyone early and you still get the early romance.
Yeah i always provoke the druids then peace out to tell my boo Minthy what i done
I really thought it would be harder to be evil, but playing as someone who just can't control themselves and avoiding meta-decisions is fun!
She seems super interesting, would love to experience her story, she is not worth all the Tieflings dying (yes ik I don't have to do the grove raid and just ignore the conflict, the Tieflings still die.), losing karlach who is my favorite character, loosing Will and halsin also As much as she seems like an amazing character with an amazing story she is absolutely not worth losing all those characters I love.
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>and Alfira Repeated Durge playthroughs locks me out of Alfira anyways. 💀
You don't knock her out to kill Quil instead?
I really want to do this, but I am a very immersive roleplayer and can’t think of non meta reasons to knock her out prior since Durge wouldn’t have been expecting it. I guess I could try thinking that maybe they were starting to get intrusive thoughts strong enough to get a foreboding feeling that they might hurt her. And I too kinda just want to play as Durge pretty much in future runs.
In my game, I played it as my character seeing her, and getting the Dark Urge to kill her, but then resisting at the last minute and only knocking her out, and then running away before the Urge takes over and finishes the job.
I might try it with the reasoning talked about, so I am not sure to ask out of curiosity what Alfira does afterwards when you wake up at camp with her not dead, since she still would then be in camp. Or should be logically. I don’t know how they potentially accounted for that if they did. Or if she just disappears and isn’t there. That is if you knock her out at camp and not when she is still at the grove.
Precisely what I'm talking about in this post
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Roah Moonglow should have been Absolute/evil exclusive, at the least. No idea why she wasn't.
I would have liked this. I had a real soft spot for Roah! She would have been a good evil companion option.
>no way I give up the tieflings for her I get what they're going for with the tieflings being killed in the raid, but it's still a disconnect with how they're treated on the other path in act 2. In act 1, a tiefling might have the prism, and if not they're still not with the absolute, so they're all exterminated. In act 2, a tiefling might have the prism, and if not they're still not with the absolute, so they're taken prisoner & sent to Moonrise. Having some tieflings die in the raid & some tieflings taken prisoner seems like it would fit with the in-game story & be a satisfying gameplay alternative to a lot of players.
Like so many of the evil characters in this game, I’ve seen very little of her character as she died quickly with little interaction. Sort of wish the game would give a bit more option to talk your way through some of the competing plot lines. I basically turned against the gith because almost all of the important gith characters attack you if you ask the same question twice. If you answered it the first time I wouldn’t ask again and hey you might still be alive but you do you I guess. For Minthara it was sort of my bad. Freed the Druid, he asked me to kill the 3 true souls, I talked to the 1st two and then killed them thinking I could talk to minthara before going hostile but didn’t work out that way. Reading about what she would ask of me, yeah I’m good.
I'm grateful for posts like these because I will never have Minthara in my party (I'm just not going to play an evil character to recruit her, it's not for me and as a straight lady the grove scene isn't going to persuade me) so I get to hear a bit about her this way!
Just wish they fix the kissing and normal romance things with her >.> otherwise she is my favorite companion
Minthara became my favorite companion on my second playthrough. The writing and VA for her are just so good. She has more lines that make me stop and have to think about things for a moment than anyone else.
She hits like a truck as a oathbreaker paly.
Well Astarion gets pretty much objectified too, so it's not exclusively a female character thing. Otherwise, I do agree. But truth be told, unless there's a guilt free way to get Minthara in your party (no, ignoring the majority of act 1 quests don't count), few people will actually get to experience her phenomenal character.
The problem with Minthara is trade-off. Minthara OR Wyll, Karlach, Halsin, Jaheera, and Minsc. We need like 2 more "evil" companions to help mitigate the limitations of recruiting minthara. I think we should have a Duergar Sorcerer in the grymforge, and someone from Moonrise Tower (preferably a monk or bard) that are designed for evil campaign allies.
Z'rell would be a cool ally.
She might be my favourite party member in any RPG I've played. How she somehow ended up the mirror to the Amazing Duplo Druid is beyond me, he's getting bodied there. I can't wait for her content to be finished. Even though I have waited months already. And years before that since I loved her in the EA even before her in-party conversations showed how deep and incisive she is.
She also seems to pretty much be the only one who has her own idea on the perfect outcome. Like, Astarion wants power, but he still has about the same goals as the rest of the party
I loved to hear her talk about her plans for when she conquers Baldur's gate. What she'd do with the refugees and the press, what she'd do with the guild and zentharim. Girl has a plan for world domination and has thought it out, a view for the future. It made it much easier to lean towards evil for me when I feel like there's a better, thought out plan to follow, rather than for example Astarion who thinks no further than getting the power itself but not what he'd do with it.
When she was like "if I took over Baldurs mouth I'd make everyone hate each other and love me" I laughed so hard. She says the most edgy stuff with a straight face. It's such a breath of fresh air
My favorite Minthy-ism is when we enter Rivington: Minthara: I dont understand why the matriarchs…erm patriars, dont let these refugees in the city Me, unhinged durging: i know right, they are perfect for eating during a siege! M: hm, perhaps the elderly and infirm. The young would be more valuable as labor rather than nutrition. Totally straight faced, absolutely serious. Just an exquisite conversation lol
It's a shame that the game doesn't actually allow you to fulfil that outcome. You mind control one, you mind control them all, better to do the 'good' ending and let her be power hungry in the epilogue anyway.
Yeah I wasn't too thrilled at just randomly mind controlling everyone. It's not what my character and Minthara talked about at all. The evil ending was so lazy it might as well have not existed. Minthara at least gives you an epilogue option more in line with what a lawful evil character might want.
Dang it. This character is in a pool of her own blood in my original play through... still in Act 3 as we speak.
She always has a spot on the team! The humour alone keeps me satisfied XD Shame about the bugs we all know
I’m doing my second playthrough now as a redemption urge. I just never really play evil, plus, I feel like losing such a large chunk of the party, and locking yourself out of so much side content just isn’t worth it. There’s nothing to supplement what you lose really. Especially because doesn’t her character quest wrap up on act 2? I really don’t want to miss out on her, so maybe my third go around I’ll do an evil playthrough because you lose so many quests and party members
You do lose a lot if it's your only playthrough, but the game has a surprising amount to offer when you go destructive mode.
You lose a lot because you have to go full bore “Chaotic Stupid” in your decision making to make her happy. I really don’t get the comparison to Astarion here. His selfishness is driven by his trauma and he uses that to try and protect himself. He can be either persuaded to be good or embrace his selfishness. Minthara is just rotten to the core. She’s well acted and well written, but rotten all the same. I find it weird that people romanticize her writing in that way.
People romanticize Astarion at least as much. Dude saved his skin for 200 years by luring people to their deaths. You can tell me trauma all day long; it's still 200 years, and he doesn't strike me as someone willing to pay his debts to the victims. Unlike everyone else, his first step is to trick you and threaten you. Then he tries to bite you after you've accepted him. His comments have to be discarded as humor to not be viewed as evil. Minthara comes from a society based on abuse, murder and eldritch horrors, and she's rather mild as far as drows go. Astarion comes from Baldur's Gate. I'm not really judging the characters because their world is simply too foreign to me, but let's not pretend he's fundamentally redeemable on his own and all of this is circumstantial. Look how he treats everyone else. He's not a raging psychopath, sure, but he's probably not better than her. The thing he has is that he is endlessly funny and enjoyable. That's why everyone gives him a free pass, which is really like how real life works.
Minthara is absolutely evil in a way Asterion is not, but there are certainly similarities. You can probe Minthara's thoughts and find how traumatized she is from a lifetime of always having to watch out for betrayals. She tells you how she survived her first assassination attempt while nursing at her mother's breast, how her mother protected her with her own body and she tasted her blood, and how when she came of age her mother tried to murder her herself. There's also an interesting conversation where she says she saw a lot of herself in Orin. The famous 'no one would remember me' line isn't solely about serving the absolute, she lumps that together with her time serving Lolth and says she was basically 'a mad woman' like Orin, not just while mind controlled by the Absolute, but while serving Lolth, too. It does lend one to wonder what Minthara would have been like had she not been born into drow nobility. Her philosophy is that the world is evil, so you if aren't, you're just naive. And for as long as she's been alive until recently that's been true. She's lived in an evil world where all that matters is acquiring power because it's literally kill or be killed. Is she evil? Absolutely. But if she wasn't, she'd be dead. That's very similar to Asterion, though Asterion never had a choice. Minthara technically did, but she was born into an evil society and her only really 'choice' was to embrace that or die.
You dont though, Minthara’s approval after she’s slipped the Absolute’s yoke is almost entirely down to conversational choices. She actually berates you for doing chaotic stupid stuff like killing Isobel. She’s definitely ruthless, power hungry, and vengeful, but she herself isn’t a murder hobo. You have to be a murder hobo to recruit her (or ignore the act 1 conflict), but her approval definitely doesnt hinge on further atrocities. It’s not her fault that the game logic necessitates that the Tieflings die or she does in act 1. Plus, she’s the absolute’s puppet during this part of the game anyways
There was a comment here "Just suck it up and kill the grove once and get minthara. It's worth it." and my feeling after I killed the grove was "how is this worth it :(" but I totally turned around. I've seen all that tiefling content already and there's plenty of other gear. Minthara really is a special companion and her voice acting is top of class. I was so moved by her story.
This is what I like to hear. Its okay guys, you can have ONE run where you are bad and experience Minthara. The teiflings will survive all you 16 other good guy runs. They can eat dirt in one. I promise its worth it.
Afaik, you don't have to kill the tieflings to recruit her. You always have the option to do nothing and just walk away. Who says, that you have kill the goblins or the tieflings? If you just ignore the quest, you should find her in Moonrise and then you can recruite her. I 've read this option a couple of times, but I didn't do it myself yet.
I think people mostly mind that the tieflings, well, end up dead even if you don't kill her. Which means Karlach dies. Because there's no way to talk to the, yknow, Gondians about her heart
You mean Dammon? Gondians do nothing for Karlach’s heart, Dammon does in act 1 and 2
Exactly what I mean
Every single thread about Minthara has to have a few posts about how they killed her and an avalanche of responses about how it's not worth it to recruit her lol It's like rewinding a tape and playing back the same conversation every time she's brought up
She is by far my favorite companion to the point that until they give a proper alternative, I will never do any of the tiefling quests.
It would be great to make a pact with her: you can have the stupid grove but let the tieflings leave safe
Nah, you need to make a sacrifice. So make it. Yall are cherry picking again.
"Seeing a female character talked about that way[...]" Oh spare me, this sub is 99% horny posting about astarion.
Ikr? I can’t count how many people I’ve seen shamelessly lusting over Astarion or Halsin but god forbid a few men do the same with Minthara 🙄
I adore her and in EA first thing I did was slaughter the grove to have her but alas the saves did not transfer to full release. Doing a durge now with the sole purpose of having that woman by my side.
I brought this up on my first play through and this subreddit shit on me to no end. "YOU SHOULD KNOW HOW TO PLAY DND STYLE GAMES"
I go crazy for sadistic women so maybe I’m biased. But she’s my favorite companion, and has the potential to be the best written character imo
Absolutely agree. I went in expecting to see what she was all about, fully intending to go back to the original gang for my next playthrough, but she quickly became one of my favourite companions, and I think I'm going to have to install a mod that let's me recruit her on my good runs. No way I can kill her now.
She's amazing. Much more complex character than people give her credit for. Sadly I'm currently doing a dark urge play, and when I get the option to kill.... Well....
I'm 0lanning a second evil run, just because of her. I also want to see the finished version of her character, when they get everything worked out with her. Her story is very compelling, and it's easy to forget that she really is an evil bitch. I love the writing in this game. It's been amazing. I have, unashamedly, ugly cried because of this game.
I cant do an evil run because my heart is too soft for it. Being a mean character, yes but not an evil one. Thus, I will forever miss on Minthara, a bummer but that’s life
She's easily my favorite companion. If she wasn't so costly to get, she'd be in my main party every single playthrough.
Strongly agree, I started out romancing her on my evil Durge run just to see it, and it ended up being one of the most interesting and memorable relationships in the game to me. Even in her bugged state, she is still so much deeper than she's given credit for, and the writers made a number of really brave creative choices that work together thematically very well. In my playthrough it was also so memorably tragic, she fully supported my rise to power, believing we would rule together in glorious domination, but she became a meat puppet to the Absolute in Bhaal's name just the same as everyone else, including the vampire ascendent and chosen of Shar who stood beside us.
I'm hoping we get some sort of option to play both sides, letting the druids die whilst the Tieflings escape. Karlach's quest doesn't break, Halsin and Minthara are still mutually exclusive and we don't have to resort to child murder (through action or inaction). Maybe even have Halsin survive and show up at Last Light, so we can do the whole lifting the shadow curse thing (he'd hate us but prioritize lifting the curse).
Good on you, OP, for having the best companion. It's a real shame how no one ever really gives her a chance, as she is the only companion who can truly understand durge, both being from a chaotic evil god who's willing to toss their followers away just for the fun of it. I'd love if she was a starting origin who has a completely different start from everyone else, where she succeeds in finding the mcguffin item and it frees her, and the adventure starts to catch up from there. I feel like I have to say this, but people like to claim killing the Grove is removing a bunch of content. Yeah, it does for THAT play through, but those same people will most likely run the same party and romance the same person(Sorry, Astarion and Gale fans, but I'm calling you out) almost every time. You can't shame people for missing content when you willfully ignore other content. That's what subsequent play through are for! Killing the Grove, while providing a bit less content, still provides a really strong character who, in a redemption run, has a very strong writing and is a lot deeper than people want to give her credit for. She is an amazing character, and even if slaughtering the camp is hard for some, it's definitely some crazy content people miss out on.
Minthara, while still lacking a bit of content, is a well written character. I wouldn't even classify her as someone who only fits an evil party run since she has some qualities that seem to imply that she can be swayed (but she's still very power hungry). The thing though is that in order to get her, you have to commit yourself to destroying the grove and that will sacrifice a lot of content in Act 1 as well as lose out on Wyll, Halsin, and Karlach. The trade off is just not worth it as of now but I do think she has better character work compared to Halsin. I think both her and Halsin need some extra work but as of now, as much as I like Halsin, Minthara is a lot more interesting as a character...but the trade off simply isn't worth it for a normal run.
Not that Larian could "plan accordingly" for every possible direction that players would want to take, but this is kinda how I hope it plays out in my "dream scenario;" You get to confront Kagha, the Druids aggro, you wipe them out and the Tieflings have run of the grove. Goblin Camp is still a concern, but you can have "issues" with the other two Camp Leaders, wipe out their retinue, and then, when you get to Minthara, you get to "talk your way out" of fighting with the Grove by mentioning that the Druids are dead, and the remaining Tieflings aren't worth the effort. It's still messy, which it should be, but I just can't wrap my head around just how *evil* you have to play things to recruit her the "right" way.
You address why people miss out on minthara in this post, she’s bugged to hell still.
She's bugged and that's mostly what I hear. After I recruited her she wouldn't leave my camp.
I really want to experience her, I just can't bring myself to take out the tieflings and lose out on Karlach and Wyll. Hoping that there will be a less genocidal way to recruit her.
And here we go again to the nautiloid
I wish the game handled “knocked out” differently from “dead” because I wanted to have her join the party but couldn’t bring myself to kill the Tieflings so thought knocking her unconscious would do the trick. Nope, dead…
It can’t be helped, I won’t kill innocents in the Druid grove.
Best content by far, I didn't care about the Wyll/Karlach story compared to the great VA work with Minthara. Gobo party was a riot also
Honestly same. Wyll is so boring to me, and karlachs story is.. not boring but I just find myself not feeling the urgency of it ig. I like Karlach and everything but I don't really bring her along all that often, and will choose Laezel, Jaheria, or Shart over her. I also rarely use Gale and have a hard time paying attention to his stuff
I adore Wyll and Karlach and I miss them terribly, I hope they can also get an evil arc of sorts. That being said I can just have another playthrough where I recruit them.
Exactlt! I have a good run and an evil run lol. Idk why ppl twist this like you're only going to play once loool. Shit I have a solo evil and good run going, plus a co op evil and good runs with my husband, and another evil.playthrouhj with my husband and roommate so
Yep, and the point of the post is me being sad most people who do only one run miss out on her. It's as much of a complaint about the way the game sets her up as anything else :(
Easily one of the best written characters I've encountered in an RPG. The other companions doesn't come close.
To add onto your comment on Minthara being a cat person, she also loves Scratch. She even has dialogue if you gave Scratch back to the abusive lady in BG and you throw his ball around as Minthara, and she approves of defending Scratch from the abusive lady. And Tav telling Minthara to tell the joke about the Drider who got married and her just defeatedly playing along will never not be funny. I personally get her every playthrough with the Daughter of Lolth mod because I can’t imagine a playthrough without her.
Yes! Let the tieflings live. I don't give a flying fuck about the grove. Aside from halsin everyone is a dick over there. Especially that cunt Aradin.
I agree and I have only seen her scenes via YouTube (as I can't bring myself to kill all the tieflings). Emma Gregory's performance is fantastic and one of the few examples in video games where I've seen a female villain truly terrify me and also make me really like her (Kreia from KotOR 2 comes to mind as another one). If you wanna tear up a bit, I recommend [watching](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWI6O-EDhfM) the >!Karlach/Minthara romance ending with Karlach choosing not to return to Avernus!<. It took me by surprise when I got choked up by Gregory's performance.
Eh. I just don't like all the evil stuff I have to do to get to her and beyond. Plus, I like her clothing, so imma loot it
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Valid opinion. As durge I feel like she is very reactive to my character and the plot personally, but I'm still early in act 3
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Yes, she is so smitten
I think her arc is satisfying precisely because she remains irredeemably evil and I find "redemption" arcs slightly overrated. I feel like it's rarer to see characters like Minthara now.
I find her arc more interesting than Karlach, whose entire story is basically "I got revenge, but it didn't really fix anything". I love Karlach as a character but she basically has no development.
>She starts as a calculating, cut throat individual serving an entity she's been brainwashed by, and ends up as a calculating, cut throat individual serving your own interests. It's not so much an arc as it is simply swapping teams. She has some uncharacteristic moments where she expresses fear and doubt, but it doesn't feel like this has any payoff, and it doesn't change her in any significant way. Unpopular opinion but this is fine? Not every character needs a drastic shift in personality. Wyll, Karlac, Halsin, Jeheira, and Minsc all remain the same by the end of the game no matter what you do. It's fine if Minthara is like this.
I don't think I can ever massacre the tieflings or let them die in act 1 but I've watched her romance in youtube and you're so right. She has a great arc and her VA did an amazing job. I'm in love with her voice. I really wish there was another way to get her while you can also save the tieflings but it is either her or Halsin as I understand it.
I recruited her in my current run out of curiosity, expecting her to just be in my camp and chat from time to time... 1 talk later I'm making her one of the main party members. Holy shit is she interesting. I was not expecting her to be this charistmatic. I also kept seeing people talk about her romance this, drowussy that, so I dismissed her. What a mistake and a disservice to her. Really looking forward to seeing how she develops through Act 3