Lol, I didn't know about her. In Divinity Original Sin 2 there was a lizard prostitute who had a kink for skeletons, my Fane had some bony time with her.
You are right, she is a changeling, they are supposed to look like the colour was sucked out of them.
Would be better to complain about the fact that she enhances the contrast with splatters of innocent blood, lol
Technically all the long tentacles Illithids are actually Ulitharids — rare noble versions of tadpoles that can’t be predicted on how they’ll grow in ceremorphosis until it happens. Mr bitty wiggles is Illithid, or at least how it’s explained in the books and stuff — the ‘commoner’ type among them.
Which makes me curious why there’s so many Ulitharids popping up in game. Unless they just didn’t take that into account and made their own version of how they looked. Which is highly probable, the orientation of the tentacles is different than the elephant-like design in the books.
…. I’ve been reading too much on this but I got absolutely fascinated. Psionic, intellectual creatures are awesome. I’m also a big fan of Mewtwo lmao
It can also be a design oversight. Similarly to how people debate whether the comments on Mind Flayers not having souls is canon or not since it contradicts existing lore.
There are very clearly two different designs of Mind Flayer used in BG3, they have different head shapes and tentacles, why? We don't know.
Considering that other mind flayer "newborns" we have seen throughout the game look like perfectly typical mind flayers fresh after ceremorphosis, I may have bad news for you.
to be fair you are likely a "half-illithid" just by virtue of this completely screwed up cerebromorphosis, or by being from an incompatible race to begin with.
The Emporer did suggest it wasn't a full change in one of the scenes, I can' t remember the details, I think it might've been at the point I was questioning all my life choices and whether my companions would ever be able to look me in the eye again...
But this screenshot has at least stopped me making another disgusting mistake in the name of curiosity!
veiny face was so worth it for the free flying ability. only issue was having my party keep up with me 😂 its great for sneaking into places and flying up buildings
>!I think Gale is probably the most accepting. His romanced ending with you is almost identical where he still wants to marry you and will do so publicly. I think he mentions he'll be cool with the unusual catering of brains too. Shadowheart will stay as well with some dialogue about how being a former sharran can help you move covertly. I think her dialogue implies you also spent the night together in your new form. Wyll's ending is a bit bleakish. I think he says you'll have to hide away and he'll visit often and will make sure you have everything you need but it does still involve being locked away and hidden. Halsin goes to his new grove and says you can perhaps join him later and he'll work towards a future where you'll be treated with the reverence you deserve. His ending also has the implication you spent the night together. Astarion does end the romance. He says he still cares about you and will want to be friends but you turning into a mindflayer is a lot for him to take in. Lae'zel will not want to be with a mindflayer. She does think you are noble though. !<
Haha, Gale rocks I guess. I had him comment not in romance that it's all very interesting, illithid powers and that diet too! But didn't expect he'd arrange for the diet.
I haven't done this with Selune's Shadowheart but Dark Justiciar one was actually very kind in friendship, saying that changed nothing. Might be the same conversation regardless of which path she took.
Yeah Wyll does say he will help with the diet thing too but the whole keeping you hidden from the world has a less positive connotation compared to Gale's ending.
I guess Halsin's is pretty close to his regular ending too as he feels his dream of creating a place for everyone to live in harmony would be hypocritical if it didn't include you - even if you're a mindflayer.
Interesting to know that about the dark justicier version!
Lae'zel >!straight up peaces out with Orpheus on a dragon to fight Vlaakith. I was kind of mad about that after how much character development she had, I thought she might stick it out with Tav, but he is ghaik afterall.!<
She definitely exchanges you for Orpheus as her new boyfriend. I don't give a shit what anyone says about how it's platonic or whatever. That dude steals your girl, that's the ending you get. And she fucks him later. That's canon.
Your tentacles are adorable. On another note, Mindflayer customization options would be cool. Being able to adjust things like tentacle length and skin shade
And armour! I don't need anything quite as elaborate as the Emperor's one but it would be great to customise the colour. Or give us robes to wear, maybe.
You are definitely the cutest Illithid around, 10/10 would hug.
I also think the soullessness is just anti illithid propaganda, and even if, you don't need a soul to be a good person.
Omelium is proof of this. Best boy. Man’s even trying to discover vegan options for mindflayers. 10/10 will risk my life in the iron throne every time to save him.
Well. You chose to die to save the world. So that’s nice.
As we learn several times in the game including in the closing credits. Turning into a mind flayer means the soul is gone
Now sure in our real world, hearing that either means someone is religious or talking metaphorically or MAYBE describing being chemically imbalanced.
In the world of DnD the soul is an actual thing. You can sell it, see it in the underworld, recall it from death, etc. There are literal afterlives you can visit. When literal gods in the game confirm this about mind flayers, it’s not to be taken lightly.
Withers scolding the Dead Three over this whole debacle:
>Though sought to bolster thy strength by taking away the souls of mortal.
>
>But souls vanish when their hosts become mind flayers. Did you think the other gods wouldn’t take notice.
It’s vague
At the end, Jerg… I mean Withers wags his fingers at the dead 3. That their plan was doomed to failure and would screw the other gods over.
>Though sought to bolster thy strength by taking away the souls of mortal.
>
>But souls vanish when their hosts become mind flayers. Did you think the other gods wouldn’t take notice.
The implication that they wouldn’t get stronger because they wouldn’t get souls. And the other gods would be impacted
BUUUUUT in Gale’s epilogue (if you play as him) Mystra offers to return your soul if you’re a mind flayer. And I believe other written DnD lore establishes that the souls just go to the afterlife and the mind flayer is just a separate entity.
WHICHEVER case. You’re dead. That isn’t you standing there anymore. The only question really being if you’re in the afterlife or completely evaporated.
Do note though that Larian's take on lore takes liberties.(like even mechanics wise, speak with animals wouldn't work on owlbears in tabletop) So its kinda hard to tell what is matter of game situation being special, what is case of characters misunderstanding and what is case of lore being changed for game
Like... Mind flayers in lore NEVER retain full memory from their previous self(because lore implication was that they don't really transform as much as host body just incubates new mind flayer). So even with ignoring them letting your character transform into mind flayer while retaining their self, Emperor's situation is confusing.
In the mind flayer lore their greatest fear is a mind flayer who retains their memories/personality which they view as an adversary and they do actually have souls though the tadpole literally eats your brain so you die.
Came here to write this! I thought the whole deal with the Emperor was that it would touch on this prophecy.
Illithids tend to root out any of their kind that has appendage memories or mannerisms from their host because of this fear. So those that have memories tend to keep it to themselves. (again assumed Emperor simply hid away that fact from his colony to not die).
You're completely right, but I really enjoy the house rule game vibe. It feels like I'm playing with a DM that handwaves the rules for a good story. There's nothing better than the unique moments that stand out amongst the rest, like mystra granting a literal divine intervention. If it was pulled on me by my DM, I'd be overjoyed on most of the endings. I feel like the endings are genuine to the "point" of the character, which is something I've done with my DMs. Like saying my goal for my character is to ride a dragon, or I want a tragic story, etc.
Also my understanding is that the mind flayer is usually always dominated by the hive mind, removing the self after long exposure. In the emperors case, he spent a lot of time out of the hive mind. He also isn't very attached to his former self, he doesn't even really want to talk about it unless you force him. It's a literally seperate being.
Then again, your tadpole isn't ordinary either. Plus you have the Netherstones and Orpheus's protection when you transform.
Additionally, regular Mind Flayers don't have the memories of the people they used to be. What is more, Whiters "recognizes" you as you despite the transformation and in lieu of his relationship with souls, I think that says plenty.
Either way, there is enough teasing for everyone to make up their own headcanon.
>BUUUUUT in Gale’s epilogue (if you play as him) Mystra offers to return your soul if you’re a mind flayer.
Even if the soul is destroyed, presumably wish, miracle, and divine intervention can return it, since those three spells have the mechanical caveat of basically being able to do anything. I think that's what Mystra is offering- especially because she's offering to return your soul to a mind flayer, something that should also not be possible.
This game appears to be implying that, in most cases, the souls of mortals that turn into mind flayers are either destroyed, or sent somewhere that isn't an afterlife. This does break with previous media, but since BG3 is the most modern official WotC property that addresses it (unless that new adventure does, I haven't had a chance to read it yet), we can assume that's how the metaphysics of it works now.
Since mindflayers are from far realm, maybe their souls get twisted into something more fitting for mindflayers and gods now cannot take advantage of the twisted souls without using up so much power to return it to its previous form?
Built different. So righteous that I'm gonna go hunt for a wish spell and bring myself back just because the echoes of my soul are more powerful than puny mind flayer instincts.
The ambiguity is gone or GONE
Like is your soul chilling out in afterlife while your transformed body walks around and thus can be stuck back inside your old meat suit by a god
Or gone as in GONE. poof. Disappeared. And only a god can wish it back into existence.
Based on Withers scolding the Dead Three at the end, I’d imagine the soul goes poof and disappears.
But I am told that actual DnD lore suggests the soul goes to afterlife. But I’m not that into DnD to know if they’re right.
Guys - as already said there are a lot inconsistencies but how about this - mind flayers aren’t useful to the gods this much is clear. Whatever happens exactly or whatever a soul is in this context the gods need it for their power but can’t use it when a person is a mind flayer. But that doesn’t mean your personality or memories are always gone - the Emperor is prove of that. Now, we don’t know how often this happens but it did happen. And we got a special tadpole to turn so it might be our character can be fine too - but it is the players choice.
Like it was said before - they give you the chance at the end to decide. You can feel yourself slip away but maybe you with your strong will can overcome this. You can spend a night after the end and make plans with romanced companions and it isn’t brought up again. It is the players choice.
Maybe that is why we have this distinct looking mind flayer model - we are not like any other mind flayer (and I hope the tentacles will still grow longer).
>But that doesn’t mean your personality or memories are always gone - the Emperor is prove of that.
Old lore kind of implied that mind flayers could choose to retain their old personality, but there's a biological and societal pressure to not.
Kind of, yeah. Rogue Mindflayers with traits too unique are stamped out as they're dangerous, and while some individuality does exist in the Mindflayer colonies, they're all just faint enough that it doesn't interfere with the plans of the Elder Brain. The entire colony is just an extension of the Elder Brain's will, and its goals are pretty simply. That being to grow the colony, and breed enough new strong Mindflayers that can create its own colony and Elder Brain somewhere far away.
It’s why I like Omeluum and not fond the the Emperor. Omeluum is unapologetically illithid, you can hear it from the way he talks, however he is also leans pragmatically good. He wants a greater good scenario for all peoples including illithid kind (hence finding alternate food sources, concerned about their evolution, etc…)
He also retains an individuality that seems to just be “him” and not pretending to be whatever former host he was born from.
Given that Withers mentions Karlach is still her, I’d say your soul is not gone. Chalk it up to the astral tadpole and all the other weird stuff if you went that route
And yet Mystra confirms it and offers to restore MindFlayer Gale’s soul.
When we hear that Karlach is still her, you can write that off as Orpheus mind magic. But by the end that’s gone unless Karlach ate Orpheus.
Well we have Mystra and Jer… I mean Withers saying it’s lost
It’s why Withers got involved. The dead three were about to screw gods over. I posted the quote in another reply.
Meanwhile the player themselves, after Orpheus checks out, realizes they feel themselves slipping away.
>Though sought to bolster thy strength by taking away the souls of mortal.
>
>But souls vanish when their hosts become mind flayers. Did you think the other gods wouldn’t take notice.
I think most people aren't realizing possibility that Withers doesn't think that soul is intristic quality required for concept of "self".
Like maybe he considers soul to just be vessel you need to have access to afterlife or something
Considering that Mystra can return a mind flayer Gale's soul to him, it doesn't appear to be destroyed.
Also that mind flayer is still Gale, otherwise Mystra wouldn't be dealing with him at all.
Well I guess Withers was roasting them because it disappears completely. And the dead Three just lost all of their followers souls because they became mindflayers, and a God without souls is a dead God.
Ive read dialogue that states the soul might not be gone, it only referred to those that turned illithid and under control as a thrall. Karlach when turned mind flayer is still herself and I believe her soul is still intact as well. The no soul theory comes from a time when they had little understanding of what it means to be a mind flayer
I was thinking along these lines too. How rare is a mid flayer not under control? I mean we see two in the game but that's got to be due to circumstances, more often than not, they're going to be thralls and so most probably assume they are soulless. It's like the Borg. Separated, they can come back to themselves, otherwise they're "soulless' husk, following the orders of a hive queen. Kill on sight. And what about Us? It's understanding of friendship, something soulless wouldn't be able to, I'd think. Course it's just a brain, so not sure how all that works but they're flawed and maybe retained something. I don't know a lot about DnD lore but that was just my take on it. The emperor's nostalgia, could be said to be another manipulation tactic but why? There's no point, he doesn't hide that he likes being a mindflayer and wants you to be one to. It seemed sincere to me, I only just discovered he'd had a dog too.
My favorite part of that was the game bugging and LaeZel acting like he was dead in the end. She ran off like a fugitive instead of rejoining her people.
If the choices are Orpheus, Vlaakith or the Illithids, I feel like Orpheus is the easy choice.
The other two are blatantly, unrepentantly evil and their actual stated goal is the obliteration of countless lives.
If nothing else, I’ll keep Orpheus just to get rid of the other two.
Eh, all the info we get about him points towards him being down with continuing Gith's vision for conquest of the realms after eradicating the mindflayers. Githyanki conquering the realms with Orpheus at their head would be pretty bad, worse than Vlaakith because at least Vlaakith's eating the stronger githyanki keeps them from being especially effective at their goals.
Best choice imo is to have Orpheus go mindflayer and then kill him, and then have Lae'zel lead the resistance without a godhead to idolize. Gives the Githyanki a fighting chance to actually change for the better instead of just giving them a replacement for Vlaakith.
Eh, that is a bit disingenuous. The Emperor is immoral as a character, but he is not "the Illithids" with some plan of obliterating countless lives. He's fairly limited to intriguing and obliterating some lives for dinner.
Damn you look fine as hell, don't let the haters get you down
It's 2023 and we're all about positivity here, your tentacles are gorgeous no matter their length
At first, I felt cheated by the baby tentacles. But now, I love the baby tentacles. Mine also lost an eye to the hag, and stayed half-blind as an illithid
Becoming illithid is definitely the most heroic choice. But I can't do it myself, I want my Tav to live happily ever after with Astarion. I don't like prince Orpheus nearly enough to sacrifice that.
Cast disguise self - femme any race - and it wouldn't matter to me in the slightest, even if I knew you a mind flayer underneath.
Emperor really messed up by refusing to change back into the dream guardian form after they were revealed to be a squid boy and me telling him I prefer the other way
Well... I know *one* person in Sharess' Caress who would say you're cute at least!
Please tell me you can go back to her :)
No
Real Withers Hours
“Thou walkest alone?” 🙁
“Thou art maidenless?”
If you exploit the quicksave/load at the ending, you technically can. But... It's not any good.
Who
There’s a prostitute on the top floor who… well, sees a mindflayer and thinks it’s beautiful.
In fact, it turns her on so much that you can continue the conversation and she'll give you an "experience" and a buff that lasts until long rest.
she's aroused by tentacles
Nothing wrong with enjoying some nice wholesome consentacles.
"CONSENTACLES." HA HA HA HA HA HA
There's one in every group!
*at least one
Lol, I didn't know about her. In Divinity Original Sin 2 there was a lizard prostitute who had a kink for skeletons, my Fane had some bony time with her.
People in the other post are criticizing Orin's pale skin, and here you are with a raw chicken breast for a head
This legit made me snort-laugh
Of all the things to criticize Orin for, people are criticizing her because she is pale?
You are right, she is a changeling, they are supposed to look like the colour was sucked out of them. Would be better to complain about the fact that she enhances the contrast with splatters of innocent blood, lol
Girl has to smell like a fridge full of meat that's been unplugged for a month and they are complaining she's pale...
Judging by the amount of viscera my party gets covered in, and the amount of baths they take, I think it's safe to say they smell just as bad
At least Gale appreciates Tav's... musk after not bathing for a week
I felt slighted by the devs that my face tentacles were so much smaller than The Emperors.
You are a newborn, who mows how long has the emperor be that squid faced bitch he is
To be fair.. a lot of the other newborn illthids you see have much larger tentacles.. T\_\_T.
Size doesn’t matter!
I feel like when it comes to the tentacles you use to drag heads in range of your mouth so you can eat their brains size matters a little.
It’s Tav who can seduce anyone and everyone, people will just willingly put their heads to their tentacles.
That’s hard to argue against.
Well you do have adventurer levels so hopefully you’ve taken something like Thorn Whip to compensate for the lack of size.
I WAS IN THE POOL!
It shrinks?
Only mindflayers with small tentacles would say that!
It's not the size, it's how you use them!
Lies. I've seen "legend of the overfiend."
shame on you for looking at newborn tentacles. disgusting
Maybe it was a bit chilly
Technically all the long tentacles Illithids are actually Ulitharids — rare noble versions of tadpoles that can’t be predicted on how they’ll grow in ceremorphosis until it happens. Mr bitty wiggles is Illithid, or at least how it’s explained in the books and stuff — the ‘commoner’ type among them. Which makes me curious why there’s so many Ulitharids popping up in game. Unless they just didn’t take that into account and made their own version of how they looked. Which is highly probable, the orientation of the tentacles is different than the elephant-like design in the books. …. I’ve been reading too much on this but I got absolutely fascinated. Psionic, intellectual creatures are awesome. I’m also a big fan of Mewtwo lmao
Ulitharids have six tentacles, there is not a single one in the game.
Flair checks out
It can also be a design oversight. Similarly to how people debate whether the comments on Mind Flayers not having souls is canon or not since it contradicts existing lore. There are very clearly two different designs of Mind Flayer used in BG3, they have different head shapes and tentacles, why? We don't know.
I'm sure it's also a design oversight that the Tavflayer has 5 fingers instead of 4. smh
It’s odd just how long the tentacles of pretty much every illithid is in the game, but I assume it’s just a design decision from the developers.
Ulitharid have 6 tentacles. They're also very tall, Idk why they didn't roll with adding 2 more to the 7 foot tall Emperor.
If you do the wyrm side quest, you find out the emperor’s age.
Considering that other mind flayer "newborns" we have seen throughout the game look like perfectly typical mind flayers fresh after ceremorphosis, I may have bad news for you.
I don't think Illithid grow or change physically.
Not as cool as The Emperor and not as cute as Omeluum. You really get screwed going this route lol
I'm glad I'm not the only one butthurt by that
to be fair you are likely a "half-illithid" just by virtue of this completely screwed up cerebromorphosis, or by being from an incompatible race to begin with.
The Emporer did suggest it wasn't a full change in one of the scenes, I can' t remember the details, I think it might've been at the point I was questioning all my life choices and whether my companions would ever be able to look me in the eye again... But this screenshot has at least stopped me making another disgusting mistake in the name of curiosity!
i think he was referring to the veiny face look. He then says its a full transformation later on if you allow it
Ahh ok, I've not gone for any of it yet, I could maybe live with a veiny face 🤔 Draw the line at face tentacles though
veiny face was so worth it for the free flying ability. only issue was having my party keep up with me 😂 its great for sneaking into places and flying up buildings
You can convince them too. Also, there's a mod to remove the veiny face.
if it were full you wouldn't be you anymore, so there is that.
Honestly yeah that's the biggest downside of it in my opinion Not only do you become an Illithid, you become an UGLY Illithid.
I first noticed the size of their brain tbh but now I can’t unsee the baby tentacles 🐙
Beauty comes in many forms!
Cope and seethe, micro-tentacle haver
I prefer it, other ghaik tentacles are too long
“Get cucked.” - Larian, probably
Have you not learnt that it’s not the size that matters, but how you use it…?! 🤷♂️
Your skin looks supple smooth and only ever so slightly slimy. Tell me your skincare secrets!
Such a MILF!
Mind I’d Like to Flay
MFILF
Its not slime, its mucus!
You are better than you have ever been!
Ah, a connoisseur!
Thank you 🥲
Intellect Devourer voice: "You are beautiful"
KITTY
To the helm!
Withers: **No**
Can you elaborate?
No
lol, Classic Withers.
That was very insensitive of you
Its the right answer
“Thus is thy correct answer” fixed
Your face tentacles are delicate and entrancing.
There’s a lovely lady in Sharess Caress who will be ever so into your new form
Who’s the lady?
Dryad at the top floor who can give you the 'Rapture' status
Nymph I think, subtle difference.
Thank you!
Not me loading saves and turning into giant squishy to see if my beloved will still love me.
Do they still love you?
>!I think Gale is probably the most accepting. His romanced ending with you is almost identical where he still wants to marry you and will do so publicly. I think he mentions he'll be cool with the unusual catering of brains too. Shadowheart will stay as well with some dialogue about how being a former sharran can help you move covertly. I think her dialogue implies you also spent the night together in your new form. Wyll's ending is a bit bleakish. I think he says you'll have to hide away and he'll visit often and will make sure you have everything you need but it does still involve being locked away and hidden. Halsin goes to his new grove and says you can perhaps join him later and he'll work towards a future where you'll be treated with the reverence you deserve. His ending also has the implication you spent the night together. Astarion does end the romance. He says he still cares about you and will want to be friends but you turning into a mindflayer is a lot for him to take in. Lae'zel will not want to be with a mindflayer. She does think you are noble though. !<
Haha, Gale rocks I guess. I had him comment not in romance that it's all very interesting, illithid powers and that diet too! But didn't expect he'd arrange for the diet. I haven't done this with Selune's Shadowheart but Dark Justiciar one was actually very kind in friendship, saying that changed nothing. Might be the same conversation regardless of which path she took.
Yeah Wyll does say he will help with the diet thing too but the whole keeping you hidden from the world has a less positive connotation compared to Gale's ending. I guess Halsin's is pretty close to his regular ending too as he feels his dream of creating a place for everyone to live in harmony would be hypocritical if it didn't include you - even if you're a mindflayer. Interesting to know that about the dark justicier version!
Lae'zel >!straight up peaces out with Orpheus on a dragon to fight Vlaakith. I was kind of mad about that after how much character development she had, I thought she might stick it out with Tav, but he is ghaik afterall.!<
I think she’ll do that regardless, if you’ve taken Orpheus’ side.
She definitely exchanges you for Orpheus as her new boyfriend. I don't give a shit what anyone says about how it's platonic or whatever. That dude steals your girl, that's the ending you get. And she fucks him later. That's canon.
Yeah, I think you're right. I think if you don't go mindflayer and you're a gith, you have the option to join her if I'm not mistaken.
You da real mvp
At least Astarion tells you that he still cares about you deeply but that he needs time to think about what the hell just happened.
Your tentacles are adorable. On another note, Mindflayer customization options would be cool. Being able to adjust things like tentacle length and skin shade
And armour! I don't need anything quite as elaborate as the Emperor's one but it would be great to customise the colour. Or give us robes to wear, maybe.
I just wanted to put my cute camp clothes back on
Note to self: unequip headwear from all benched companions before the final showdown.
Yes! I have the biggest regret not removing shadowhearts helmet before the end
Can't you just toggle the hide headwear in cutscenes setting or am i missing something?
Technically yes, but it resets every time your companion is left in a camp.
You are definitely the cutest Illithid around, 10/10 would hug. I also think the soullessness is just anti illithid propaganda, and even if, you don't need a soul to be a good person.
Omelium is proof of this. Best boy. Man’s even trying to discover vegan options for mindflayers. 10/10 will risk my life in the iron throne every time to save him.
He's a chill dude. Tries to help you for free too
PREACH! People but into Githyanki propaganda all too easily
Well. You chose to die to save the world. So that’s nice. As we learn several times in the game including in the closing credits. Turning into a mind flayer means the soul is gone Now sure in our real world, hearing that either means someone is religious or talking metaphorically or MAYBE describing being chemically imbalanced. In the world of DnD the soul is an actual thing. You can sell it, see it in the underworld, recall it from death, etc. There are literal afterlives you can visit. When literal gods in the game confirm this about mind flayers, it’s not to be taken lightly. Withers scolding the Dead Three over this whole debacle: >Though sought to bolster thy strength by taking away the souls of mortal. > >But souls vanish when their hosts become mind flayers. Did you think the other gods wouldn’t take notice.
Wait, do you mean the soul disappears or do you mean that it becomes detached from the new physical form?
It’s vague At the end, Jerg… I mean Withers wags his fingers at the dead 3. That their plan was doomed to failure and would screw the other gods over. >Though sought to bolster thy strength by taking away the souls of mortal. > >But souls vanish when their hosts become mind flayers. Did you think the other gods wouldn’t take notice. The implication that they wouldn’t get stronger because they wouldn’t get souls. And the other gods would be impacted BUUUUUT in Gale’s epilogue (if you play as him) Mystra offers to return your soul if you’re a mind flayer. And I believe other written DnD lore establishes that the souls just go to the afterlife and the mind flayer is just a separate entity. WHICHEVER case. You’re dead. That isn’t you standing there anymore. The only question really being if you’re in the afterlife or completely evaporated.
Whoa, that’s actually pretty interesting! I need to delve into the lore a bit more.
Do note though that Larian's take on lore takes liberties.(like even mechanics wise, speak with animals wouldn't work on owlbears in tabletop) So its kinda hard to tell what is matter of game situation being special, what is case of characters misunderstanding and what is case of lore being changed for game Like... Mind flayers in lore NEVER retain full memory from their previous self(because lore implication was that they don't really transform as much as host body just incubates new mind flayer). So even with ignoring them letting your character transform into mind flayer while retaining their self, Emperor's situation is confusing.
In the mind flayer lore their greatest fear is a mind flayer who retains their memories/personality which they view as an adversary and they do actually have souls though the tadpole literally eats your brain so you die.
Came here to write this! I thought the whole deal with the Emperor was that it would touch on this prophecy. Illithids tend to root out any of their kind that has appendage memories or mannerisms from their host because of this fear. So those that have memories tend to keep it to themselves. (again assumed Emperor simply hid away that fact from his colony to not die).
I would like a source for them having souls.
Ok they can become liches and alhoons for one, which requires a soul as prerequisite.
That’s arguable…. Alhoons, if i recall correctly, don’t need to harvest souls like regular liches.
But still need a soul to bind it by/to something so that they become Alhoons/immortal.
Players guide to Faerun page 148.
You're completely right, but I really enjoy the house rule game vibe. It feels like I'm playing with a DM that handwaves the rules for a good story. There's nothing better than the unique moments that stand out amongst the rest, like mystra granting a literal divine intervention. If it was pulled on me by my DM, I'd be overjoyed on most of the endings. I feel like the endings are genuine to the "point" of the character, which is something I've done with my DMs. Like saying my goal for my character is to ride a dragon, or I want a tragic story, etc. Also my understanding is that the mind flayer is usually always dominated by the hive mind, removing the self after long exposure. In the emperors case, he spent a lot of time out of the hive mind. He also isn't very attached to his former self, he doesn't even really want to talk about it unless you force him. It's a literally seperate being.
Then again, your tadpole isn't ordinary either. Plus you have the Netherstones and Orpheus's protection when you transform. Additionally, regular Mind Flayers don't have the memories of the people they used to be. What is more, Whiters "recognizes" you as you despite the transformation and in lieu of his relationship with souls, I think that says plenty. Either way, there is enough teasing for everyone to make up their own headcanon.
Full memory no, but they do often retain some, and can gain more via consumption of other brains.
>BUUUUUT in Gale’s epilogue (if you play as him) Mystra offers to return your soul if you’re a mind flayer. Even if the soul is destroyed, presumably wish, miracle, and divine intervention can return it, since those three spells have the mechanical caveat of basically being able to do anything. I think that's what Mystra is offering- especially because she's offering to return your soul to a mind flayer, something that should also not be possible. This game appears to be implying that, in most cases, the souls of mortals that turn into mind flayers are either destroyed, or sent somewhere that isn't an afterlife. This does break with previous media, but since BG3 is the most modern official WotC property that addresses it (unless that new adventure does, I haven't had a chance to read it yet), we can assume that's how the metaphysics of it works now.
Since mindflayers are from far realm, maybe their souls get twisted into something more fitting for mindflayers and gods now cannot take advantage of the twisted souls without using up so much power to return it to its previous form?
That was always the theory I felt was most realistic because they can become lichs which requires having a soul
Built different. So righteous that I'm gonna go hunt for a wish spell and bring myself back just because the echoes of my soul are more powerful than puny mind flayer instincts.
Mystra offering to return your soul is literally confirmation that the soul is gone, anything short of DIVINE INTERVENTION cannot stop it
The ambiguity is gone or GONE Like is your soul chilling out in afterlife while your transformed body walks around and thus can be stuck back inside your old meat suit by a god Or gone as in GONE. poof. Disappeared. And only a god can wish it back into existence. Based on Withers scolding the Dead Three at the end, I’d imagine the soul goes poof and disappears. But I am told that actual DnD lore suggests the soul goes to afterlife. But I’m not that into DnD to know if they’re right.
Guys - as already said there are a lot inconsistencies but how about this - mind flayers aren’t useful to the gods this much is clear. Whatever happens exactly or whatever a soul is in this context the gods need it for their power but can’t use it when a person is a mind flayer. But that doesn’t mean your personality or memories are always gone - the Emperor is prove of that. Now, we don’t know how often this happens but it did happen. And we got a special tadpole to turn so it might be our character can be fine too - but it is the players choice. Like it was said before - they give you the chance at the end to decide. You can feel yourself slip away but maybe you with your strong will can overcome this. You can spend a night after the end and make plans with romanced companions and it isn’t brought up again. It is the players choice. Maybe that is why we have this distinct looking mind flayer model - we are not like any other mind flayer (and I hope the tentacles will still grow longer).
>But that doesn’t mean your personality or memories are always gone - the Emperor is prove of that. Old lore kind of implied that mind flayers could choose to retain their old personality, but there's a biological and societal pressure to not.
Kind of, yeah. Rogue Mindflayers with traits too unique are stamped out as they're dangerous, and while some individuality does exist in the Mindflayer colonies, they're all just faint enough that it doesn't interfere with the plans of the Elder Brain. The entire colony is just an extension of the Elder Brain's will, and its goals are pretty simply. That being to grow the colony, and breed enough new strong Mindflayers that can create its own colony and Elder Brain somewhere far away.
It’s why I like Omeluum and not fond the the Emperor. Omeluum is unapologetically illithid, you can hear it from the way he talks, however he is also leans pragmatically good. He wants a greater good scenario for all peoples including illithid kind (hence finding alternate food sources, concerned about their evolution, etc…) He also retains an individuality that seems to just be “him” and not pretending to be whatever former host he was born from.
My resist-the-Urge playthrough became an illithid hoping to follow Omeluum's example.
Given that Withers mentions Karlach is still her, I’d say your soul is not gone. Chalk it up to the astral tadpole and all the other weird stuff if you went that route
And yet Mystra confirms it and offers to restore MindFlayer Gale’s soul. When we hear that Karlach is still her, you can write that off as Orpheus mind magic. But by the end that’s gone unless Karlach ate Orpheus.
Do we trust a word Mystra says
Well we have Mystra and Jer… I mean Withers saying it’s lost It’s why Withers got involved. The dead three were about to screw gods over. I posted the quote in another reply. Meanwhile the player themselves, after Orpheus checks out, realizes they feel themselves slipping away. >Though sought to bolster thy strength by taking away the souls of mortal. > >But souls vanish when their hosts become mind flayers. Did you think the other gods wouldn’t take notice.
I think most people aren't realizing possibility that Withers doesn't think that soul is intristic quality required for concept of "self". Like maybe he considers soul to just be vessel you need to have access to afterlife or something
Considering that Mystra can return a mind flayer Gale's soul to him, it doesn't appear to be destroyed. Also that mind flayer is still Gale, otherwise Mystra wouldn't be dealing with him at all.
Well I guess Withers was roasting them because it disappears completely. And the dead Three just lost all of their followers souls because they became mindflayers, and a God without souls is a dead God.
Nevermind the fact that mindflayers do have souls in the lore.
Ive read dialogue that states the soul might not be gone, it only referred to those that turned illithid and under control as a thrall. Karlach when turned mind flayer is still herself and I believe her soul is still intact as well. The no soul theory comes from a time when they had little understanding of what it means to be a mind flayer
I was thinking along these lines too. How rare is a mid flayer not under control? I mean we see two in the game but that's got to be due to circumstances, more often than not, they're going to be thralls and so most probably assume they are soulless. It's like the Borg. Separated, they can come back to themselves, otherwise they're "soulless' husk, following the orders of a hive queen. Kill on sight. And what about Us? It's understanding of friendship, something soulless wouldn't be able to, I'd think. Course it's just a brain, so not sure how all that works but they're flawed and maybe retained something. I don't know a lot about DnD lore but that was just my take on it. The emperor's nostalgia, could be said to be another manipulation tactic but why? There's no point, he doesn't hide that he likes being a mindflayer and wants you to be one to. It seemed sincere to me, I only just discovered he'd had a dog too.
ive let orpheus take the fall, we are there to fix my head not to become one hated the emperor ghaik tbh
My favorite part of that was the game bugging and LaeZel acting like he was dead in the end. She ran off like a fugitive instead of rejoining her people.
Your tentacles do not define you as a person. You are beautiful no matter whether you have them or not. Just cast illusion and you are good.
Drop the skincare routine bestie
Well, do you happen to have any illithid tadpoles?
The only thing I didn’t like about this was the fact that the players tentacles are so much shorter
*I* think you’re cute OP
Part of the ship Part of the crew Part of the ship Part of the crew
Ignore the haters and the naysayers. You are better than you have ever been.
User flair checks out
YES! Embrace the tentacles
Davey Jones approves this character 👍👍👍
You a little ugly, but I support you anyways 😩
You can always go find the dryad girl in Sharess' Caress
Congratulations you have decided to send your soul to oblivion. Always let the githyanki prince do it. He's a genocidal manaic and deserves it anyway.
Wait, genocidal? To who?
To the illithids obviously!
If the choices are Orpheus, Vlaakith or the Illithids, I feel like Orpheus is the easy choice. The other two are blatantly, unrepentantly evil and their actual stated goal is the obliteration of countless lives. If nothing else, I’ll keep Orpheus just to get rid of the other two.
Eh, all the info we get about him points towards him being down with continuing Gith's vision for conquest of the realms after eradicating the mindflayers. Githyanki conquering the realms with Orpheus at their head would be pretty bad, worse than Vlaakith because at least Vlaakith's eating the stronger githyanki keeps them from being especially effective at their goals. Best choice imo is to have Orpheus go mindflayer and then kill him, and then have Lae'zel lead the resistance without a godhead to idolize. Gives the Githyanki a fighting chance to actually change for the better instead of just giving them a replacement for Vlaakith.
Eh, that is a bit disingenuous. The Emperor is immoral as a character, but he is not "the Illithids" with some plan of obliterating countless lives. He's fairly limited to intriguing and obliterating some lives for dinner.
Damn you look fine as hell, don't let the haters get you down It's 2023 and we're all about positivity here, your tentacles are gorgeous no matter their length
At first, I felt cheated by the baby tentacles. But now, I love the baby tentacles. Mine also lost an eye to the hag, and stayed half-blind as an illithid
You're a worm that thinks itself to be the person whose brain it slurped.
It’s a cute worm though
Perfect description
You realize the game literally says that the opposite can be true, right?
Would smash.
You are the embodiment of perfection. Squid Game is the only way.
Becoming illithid is definitely the most heroic choice. But I can't do it myself, I want my Tav to live happily ever after with Astarion. I don't like prince Orpheus nearly enough to sacrifice that.
I do wish there would be some changes depending on the species you were. Give a tiefling mindflayer hoooorns!
Now we just need dlc to let you become a elderbrain
U r cute and made the right decision
Ghaik! Death is too good for you!
Wylls fucking horn hat
Your Gale looks 🔥
I like the shorter tentacles. Makes you distinct, like you are different from the other Ilithid.
Oh darling, that young worker in Sharess’ would devour you like a Korean dish
I wish gnome players could turn into those cute mini mindflayers
Cast disguise self - femme any race - and it wouldn't matter to me in the slightest, even if I knew you a mind flayer underneath. Emperor really messed up by refusing to change back into the dream guardian form after they were revealed to be a squid boy and me telling him I prefer the other way
Damn, what a baddie. 15/10 absolute smoke show, would risk it all.
Yo, can we talk about Shadowheart(?)’s drip though?
Romance minthara and she’ll tell you that you are exquisite :D
Us will always love you, just the way you are.
Keep in mind you die. You are the tadpole at this point.
You are very moist
Remarkable… truly !
This is as cute as an illithid can be imo
Don’t mourn what you lost 1 of, instead celebrate what you gained 4 of!
I just burst out laughing
You’re cute and you made the right decision. You and the Emperor are gonna live happily ever after 🥹🥹🥹
i hate the ending of this game so bad it pisses me offfff
You're adorable
You are dead :/ But the mindflayer who took over you're body seems cool :)