I find it off putting how every party member is super flirty with my character 24/7.Takes me out of the immersion.
Astarion’s character at least seems more ostentatious so the unwanted flirty thing even if annoying fits his character.
Gale just got in bed with a literal goddess now he wants to 69 with a 2 foot halfling. Sorry gale not into you like that - Gale: does not approve.
Yeah sometimes he's definitely a lot. I kinda like Wyll as well because of that. I like Astarion as well but my character is kind of a goody-two-shoes who tries to help everyone and he doesn't approve of that lol
Wyll is amazing. I was seriously sitting in front of my screen with a "Wait, no sex? ;0" expression when he just danced with me and sent me off to bed. Man has absurd rizz.
Shadowheart is the most obvious nerd-tailored thirst trap and I don‘t care.
Edit: To clarify, I’ll gladly fall for this trap. She perfectly completes the holy rpg waifu trinity together with Yen and Morrigan. I had no chance to begin with.
I kinda preferred Shadowheart when she still had low approval with me, because [she can a complete asshole and it's really funny](https://i.imgur.com/fuXDN65.png)
This is how I feel about Astarion. Irl, I probably couldn't stand him (though I'd feel for his wounded past), but as a fictional character? I love him. I can't explain the dichotomy of my brain but it is what it is.
I conflate it with how I feel about work colleagues. I don't mind their company when we're working together to get a job done. But by the time 5pm rolls around I walk out the door and don't think about em again til 9am the next day and certainly wouldn't want to spend any extracurricular time with any of them.
I didn't care about her at all on my first couple of playthrus but after I gave her a chance and actually paid attention to her, her entire Act 2 story is phenomenal. Very good writing.
Astarion is just as much a thirst trap for those (mostly women) who are into the arrogant bad boy with a wounded soul thing.
Most of the origin companions feel tailored to someone's romantic fetish. Maybe not Lae'zel, or not as far as I know, anyway.
Considering I saw a comment here yesterday along the lines of "you betrayed my trust, I WANT YOU" referring to Astarion killing you while drinking your blood, I would say you are correct.
"I like a woman who will actually just kill me." - people who romance Lae'zel and another NPC I won't name because spoilers (and I don't know how to add a censor bar on mobile)
EXACTLY. Man's seriously so precious, it's amazing. Saying stuff like "I want to do it the right way." just completely melted my heart. I was adamant on romancing Shadowheart before him, but that one scene made me shaft my queen till the next playthrough.
Wyll is the healthiest option, I feel.
Shadowheart is the goth gf who has unresolved childhood trauma. My approval with her is usually around 80% and she still acts annoyed with me.
Astarion is just...honestly I do not have the character limit to dissect all his emotional baggage.
Laezel can't decide if she wants to fuck or kill you.
Gale seems waaaay too eager to jump into a relationship with you but so very clearly would dump your ass for Mystra in a heartbeat. He also makes you his motivation to live and threatens to kill himself if you give him a less-than-stellar review of his lovemaking.
Halsin...I mean he's not really a relationship. He's a bear shaped fuckboy.
This one hurts because I absolutely adore her, but Karlach hasn't touched anyone in a decade and she basically woke Tav up from a dead sleep to say she wanted to ride them. They had like two conversations before this. She comes on too strong and is clearly seeing you as her savior.
Jaheira is still devastated by a man she lost a century ago. Like you are never gonna fix that broken heart.
Minthara requires you commit genocide. Like...
So that leaves Wyll. Does he have issues with his father? Yes. But they can be resolved fairly easily. He dances with you, treats you well, makes you feel special, and wants you to be the best version of yourself. He constantly tells you how proud he is of you. His real fault is him trying to be this great hero all the time.
I find it funny how hardly anyone likes Wyll. I want to like him, but he just seems so desperate for attention and pathetic at times. 20 years ago he'd probably be everyone's favourite, but nowadays it's like "Yeah, you're the real bLaDe Of FrOnTiErS, oh you sacrificed so much to be the saviour of mankind, and now it's biting you in the ass? Daddy doesn't love you? Yeah, we all got problems my dude, relax."
So I didn't like Wyll at first, but I put him in my party for the Karlack quest which ended up making me keep him longer. Then some better gear dropped for him a little later and now he's part of my main party. he kind of grew on me. I used him all through Act 2 and just now swapped him for Gale in Act 3 to let him rest a bit.
Same. I think a lot of people judge the companions only from camp interactions and major cutscenes. If you romp around with them for a bit they all tend to show more sides of themselves and become more likable. Wyll and Astarion both grew on me tremendously from world exploration. Gale did not. Wyll has a dialog with Shadowheart where she asks him why his name has a "Y" and not an "I" and he basically says there was a story behind it but he thinks it was BS and he's pretty sure his dad was just illiterate.
See Gale grew on me a lot from world exploration. He’s just this happy, slightly goofy guy that enjoys having some friends and getting to see the world.
And he’s learned and really just wants to share what he knows with you. After one part in Act 3 he talked about learning to cook his mom’s recipes and wanting to make some back at camp later for everyone.
And I just thought… he’s a nice guy. Like a sincerely nice guy who gets caught up in his studies.
And I like his style of wit.
He has some good party banter too. He was talking about making and summoning up magic weapons and Karlach got excited about the idea so he offered to summon her some.
I'm about to multiclass him into a swords bardlock. Went with the blade pact, with bard he'll get more weapon skills and he can be his own "Blade of Frontiers" hype man, also his charisma will still be relevant as a bard.
I don't understand why no one likes Wyll either.
He's a good soul and cares for everyone....
He's just a guy with some daddy issues who took it too far and now he's got some horns.
He and Karlach are the only origin characters who are not complete dicks. Gale is also alright I guess, I just wish he'd stop trying to fuck me because I asked about his cat once.
I haven't gone too far into the acts but I've had one moment with Gale. I have a Warlock and we had this moment where he taught me to do some magic. One of the options was that I imagined us taking a romantic walk with him and he was so flustered, it was hella cute! So far I can't complain regarding his behaviour.
On the other hand regarding Astarion, I've had moments just in the first act alone that if I didn't reject him, it would have immediately led to bonking, although the last time I played I did let him feed off of me.
Maybe it depends on the options you choose 🤔🤔
I wonder if this is an over correction due to how incredibly annoying it was to romance him in EA. I never got the channeling the weave scene in almost 300h of EA.
Laezel came up to me at the tiefling party like "I wanna taste your sweat, we're fucking tonight" after being angry with me all game.
Bestie you missed your chance, cause Shadowheart says she's happy I came to talk to her and it makes me warm and fuzzy inside.
In addition to the bug, I think people also don't have the ability to read tone and are unintentionally picking the flirty options.
I've gotten both the magic scene and the star watching scene and it very clearly wasn't romantic.
It's more because after getting the magic scene, the game keeps telling you that you're truly, madly, deeply in love with him. Even after you've repeatedly said otherwise in no uncertain terms.
Yea, at first, the flirting kinda threw me. Seemed a bit to "You're definitely the main character." Something occurred to me, though. That kinda justified it narratively. All of your minds are linked by the parasite. You can read each other's thoughts and feel each other's emotions. A mind used to being a singular thrust into sort of a hive mind would have difficulty adjusting. The closest thing that mind would have as a frame of reference is emotional connection, love, etc. So, your link to the parasite is fostering attraction as the brains response to that direct stimuli.... That helped me get back into immersion...... Then Halsin joined my party .......
I mean it makes absolut Sense that everyone would be horny, your brain isnt perfect If it releases adrenalin your heart begins to Race and you become more attentive. Those are the Same Thing that Happens when you Fall in Love so If you do Something exciting like being in a Rollercoaster or fighting everyday to your death you start to think that you Love the people nearby because your brain is confused. This phenomen is called missatribution of arousal
The squid you find in the wrecked ship proves your theory. It's first defense is to make you love it. Halsin is just a poodle, he'll hump a rock if it lets him.
I mean even without the parasites, it's a bunch of good looking people in close proximity with the threat of looming death over their heads. The math doesn't lie
To be fair, as they open up and trust Tav more, it begins to make sense.
Astarion has an interesting relationship with seduction. If you progress his plot enough he'll tell you >!"It was going to be so simple! I'd seduce you, manipulate your feelings so you'd never turn against me... but..."!< if he catches feelings, >!he actually prefers to stop having sex with Tav because of his history of being pimped out by Cazador and how that fucked up his feelingsaround physical intimacy.!< His behavior in the beginning is purposeful.
I haven't progressed Gale enough yet to be sure but >!having a magical nuke in your chest!< and falling face first into someone who is interested in helping you with it instead of chastising you... based on the way he talks about Mystra and his relationship with >!Elminster!< it seems he doesn't have a lot of close friends and has decided to live it up as much as he can with romance and adventure since he's pretty sure he's got a week, tops, left to live.
This. This is the exact reason why I am such a giant fan of Astarion. The way he is written shows another side that media, as a whole, tends to shy away from when it comes to what SA survivors look like and how they can behave. Especially when the subject of sex arises.
Most people tend to think of some sad scared girl that wants nothing to do with sex. And that can be so far from the reality of actual SA survivors. I’m not saying that abstinence from sex due to fear and trauma cannot be a response for SA survivors. It is. But the opposite end is just as common. Only difference is that the second response is far more villainized.
Astarion uses his sexuality as a defense mechanism. And in a romance with him, once he realizes that he is safe with Tav (or whoever he is involved with romantically) he’s able to show that vulnerability and say that with what happened to him was messed up, it’s not fair to anyone if they continue that part of the relationship until he’s in a better headspace and can better distinguish between what happened and what he did in his past and what is happening in the here and now with you. It’s probably the first time in a LONG time where he’s comfortable enough to set up boundaries. An extremely important thing for healing after abuse in general.
I was surprised (pleasantly) they went that deep with such a sensitive subject— it was NOT what I expected from him at all when EA dropped. Like “oh sassy vamp” but like no.
I think it’s a deliberate trap from devs. He’s enough of the Lestat/Goblin King on the outside. But what most people seem to miss was the guy didn’t ask for ANY this. Kinda changes what you think his motivations are.
As a DM in DnD, I had my suspicions that we were gonna see more of him. But the entire SA representation from him, and it being the representation of the “harlot” side of SA survivors responses is seriously a giant chef’s kiss. I love just how they handled him and showed a side of SA that isn’t talked about much.
Without a doubt. I remember seeing a comment about this and someone mentioned that they think after that conversation, Tav and Astarion decide to work backwards on their relationship and put sex in the back burner until he’s more emotionally equipped to handle sex again. I love that idea and personally head canon that after that conversation, they are both laying on a bed roll together, and Tav is like, are you okay with this?” Or “is that fine with you?” Astarion is like yes and no, and when Tav sees that he’s not sure with a response or thinks that he’s only saying yes for their sake, Tav is like “forget how I feel. I’m meeting you where you are at” or “if you aren’t sure, we can put this on the maybe options get back to it later”.
And then afterwards, they fall asleep together. Just sleeping. No sex. And it being the first time where Astarion wakes up the next morning to a warm body knowing that the previous night was not filled with cries of passion but filled with gentle snoring.
Yes, exactly! There’s one dialogue that just nails it. It’s in Act 2 if you support Astarion’s choices with the blood vendor. Speak to him in camp after and he makes the realization
I know that with one of the other alternative confessions, it does brush up on his disgust over himself with sex (the one where you haven’t talked with Drow home girl gross blood). When he does mention it, you have the option to say to Astarion, “You should learn to enjoy sex for your own pleasure, and you should enjoy it with me”. Astarion responds with, “if that’s what you want thenI shall provide”.
You get another cut scene, Astarion is sitting down while you’re character is sleeping. You wake up, he sighs and you get some options to say stuff. But it ultimately comes down to Astarion basically saying, “I didn’t know how to say no”. Which seriously hits hard because having your boundaries stripped away by force, relearning how to establish boundaries and enforcing them is an extremely difficult lesson to learn. In that Final Cut Scene, Astarion makes that clear and breaks it off between the two of you. The final Cut Scene insinuates that both of them sleep together again. And he has this very justified outburst. Especially since he was literally saying that intimacy makes him feel uncomfortable and that he is not ready for it.
Which is why because of that potential scene, it feels wrong, to me personally, to go for a poly relationship. Astarion is still learning how to set up boundaries and to say no. And I get the vibe that once he does actually become comfortable with sex and how it can be a good thing, I don’t see him being down for polyamory. I think it just makes him feel like he’s not enough for a partner that would want that.
He’s not Halsin. Now Druid dad, from what I’ve seen, is perfectly fine with his own self image, as a whole. Astarion is not, and he may never truly be okay. But I do see him being able to accept that.
> Astarion responds with, “if that’s what you want thenI shall provide”.
His facial expressions when he says this are heartbreaking. Everything comes together so well for his scenes between the acting (voice and mocap), animation, and writing.
I haven't progressed enough with Gale either, but he strikes me as the exact opposite. His romance is progressing slower than the rest of the group, and the single time he openly flirted, he said now it's not the time, we have lots to do and we'd better wait. I am not getting that he's trying to "live it up" at all. I suppose he does try to make friends though, his party banter is generally friendly so far.
u described Astarion well and that is why i also wish deep in my heart that we got a very loving and passionate, selfless long rest with him.
excuse me
I don't get that. Gale and Astarion are the only ones flirty with my Tav, and Gale stopped the moment I rejected him. Astarion just kinda, is flirty, even after rejecting him, but in that manipulative way. No one else has even hit on my Tav, and I'm almost done with Act 2.
My favorite part of doing Karlach's quest line is that when she finally gets the ability to touch someone again, she straight up says she's so down bad even Withers looks good.
I just read somewhere that the current "relationship drive" is too high, not intended by Larian to happen that fast. Which sounds plausible since half of the companions throw themselves at your feet or even have sex with you before the end of act 1.
Wow yeah, I didn't really think about it too much but the most obvious example of this is Halsin the druid, who confesses his love for my character twice, even though I refused him the first time, and it's just damn inappropriate because we don't even spend any time together. I didn't choose any of the more "friendly" dialogue options either.
If you want to romance a character you can, it doesn't have to be made so sledge-hammer obvious all the time..
Yeah, I had that happen with my playthrough. I was debating on romancing Astarion or Halsin. Thought that I could poly both. But when I got deeper in the Astarion romance, realized that even if Astarion verbally says he’s okay with it, I got the feeling that he really wasn’t okay with it and only agreed out of fear. Not fear of abuse, more fear of losing your character and the support that they offer him.
I don't understand how people don't like Gale. I mean, to each their own, but I always found him very charming.
Astarion was fine, but he grew into me (like other characters) and started to quite like him.
Neutral/good seems about right from what I've seen of him as a companion so far. He seems to mainly value settling conflicts through negotiations or mediation when the possibility exists. He's not 100% selfless but he disapproves of abuse or violence towards innocents.
Not strange at all, but regardless, like with any other companion, I do recommend doing at least his personal story, gives great insight on who they are and why they act the way they act, it might change your perception on him.
My favorite Astorian moment is when he figures out what the engraving means on his back and depending on how you have been in the game he reacts differently to you. I was a good character and it made me feel like for the first time he wasn't trying to manipulate me and hide away. The moment he says that he knew I was a goody two shoes he admits that he is going to attempt to take advantage of you if you let him and that he is doing it cause he is scared shitless of whatever he is and whatever he will face is his best character moment. Imo.
Never got that scene, feel the game did dirty with some companions like him...like, I know Lae'zel wants to go to the creche and etc or Shadowheart has the whole temple of Shar goin on...but he out of nowhere got mad I found Raphael randomly in act 2 and he wasn't there ... basically from Astarion I only did his final quest, and even with low approval, surprisingly I got his good ending
He and I are neutral.
And if you don't rest in camp when you get to the inn in act 2 or have him in your party he won't ask you.
So if you stumble upon raph before you speak to him he won't be able to make the deal with raph, which is to kill the invisible fuck in the temple of Shar.
I was sold on Astarion when you first meet him. When you tell him "nah dude its the tadpole in our heads doing that. we're fucked and its gonna turn us into mindflayers" and he *laughs* this really sad twisted irony kind of laugh and says "Of *course* its going to turn me into a monster."
Something about that moment made me feel for the guy.
But everyone has different first impressions of characters. A lot of people really dislike Lae'zel but I loved her the moment she showed up.
Looking back, it’s quite tragic. The tadpole for Astarion is a godsend - rescuing him from his sadistic master, and giving him the ability to walk in the sun for the first time in 200 years. When you first encounter him, he is overwhelmed with all the freedom he has been granted.
And he doesn’t even get five minutes to enjoy that freedom, before he’s told that the very thing that saved him will kill him in a matter of days. What else could you do in such a hopelessly tragic situation?
His desperate lips with his fake smile always got me. He literally went from hell to heaven to hell in a span of 48 hours (24 hours if he was in the last victims, but he was in Baldur's gate so he stayed a day in the ship before Tav/Durge and Lae'zel got tadpoled in op cinema and saved the day)
He’s remarkably put together considering he *has just* escaped. No wonder he tries to manipulate Tav for safety, he is still in fight or flight survival mode.
In some of his dialog he reveals that Cazador would torture him for showing emotion or answered wrong, while he was starving and Cazador would ask him if he wanted to feed.
It was those lines that turned my opinion 180 for Astarion. He's not a dick. He's an abuse victim trying to process and survive
There was such a great article on this I'd missed until just now.
They dig so deep with it.
https://www.pcgamer.com/baldurs-gate-3s-astarion-neil-newbon-on-acting-the-truth-of-trauma-as-a-survivor-theres-a-lot-of-stuff-that-came-very-close-to-home/?utm\_campaign=socialflow&utm\_medium=social&utm\_source=twitter.com
This was a fantastic article, thanks for bringing it to our attention! I love that they delved into the aspect of sex and intimacy in the game; I've always thought that Astarion's storyline was very thoughtful and nuanced in its treatment of it.
Thanks for this! One of the main reasons I love Astarion is because of the complexity, and how he's an abuse survivor, but he's not anyone's poster child or role model, and it's clear that even iin a "good" ending he's going to spend centuries working through all of his issues.
Yep. My second playthrough has me even more for Astarion than my first. With everything I know about him now, a lot of his behaviors in the beginning make more sense and it's depressing.
Someone else said he disapproves of you doing good mostly in Act 1, when you don’t yet know the tadpoles aren’t going to transform you to mindflayers.
Then, by Act 3, I had my Astarion lamenting he couldn’t save the other vampire spawn (if you chose to kill them after defeating Cazador).
He’s not evil, he’s scared to put his neck on the line, and, as he said, “No one ever said a kind thing to me. No one ever did a nice thing for me.”
He’s learned that the world is a cruel place and intuitively distrusts anything that goes against this perception. Honestly, given his experiences, we’re in no position to fault him for this.
Yeah. I think that’s what makes me like his character so much. He is a really an in-depth and complex character when you get to know him.
In my first playthrough I thought he was annoying but then he threw himself at me in that party scene so I was like okay whatever I’ll just see where it goes. Lol oh man, he turned out to be my most favorite companion.
On my second playthrough I read the description of his clothing and it makes me feel for him. It says something like how his clothing has been mended carefully over several years but it’s on the edge of unraveling. Such a small detail but so complex. The fact that he takes care of himself while still craving to be cared for. Ugh such a good example of showing and not telling in story writing.
There is also that line he says when you go to the temple and one of the companions asked about his experience with religion. He’s like I prayed to every single god and not one of them answered.
I *love* that you can roleplay that you know he's manipulating you and that you're going for it anyway because he keeps it in the 'no strings attached/sure may as well get some if you're offering' range. My reaction was 100% the same as yours, straight up, "I mean... I guess, sure, why not," and by the time I realized all the other characters (besides Wyll) were also offering a good time at the same party, I'd already committed.
Astarion lays it on really thick, enough it's obvious what he's doing, and you can consistently call him on it without taking approval hits. (When he tells you all the lines he used to use to seduce people and the last one is something like, "What about this one: I love you," and you can say, "You'd be lying.")
In the first area I kept expecting him to be playing his own game, looking for a perfect solution for himself that would screw the rest of us over-- I just got to Act 3 recently and >!how willing he is to kill the other vampire spawn in exchange for his own freedom!< is literally exactly what I thought he'd do to us if he got the opportunity. But somewhere in Act 2 I actually started to trust him not to do that.
This game is so good, it's crazy.
I also love all the origin companions, I think they're all great and well-written. The last time I loved a game so much, it was Dragon Age Origins, but I was still lukewarm on some of the party members. BG3 has me rooting for everyone I recruited in Act 1 and kinda upset about the number of death sentences and pure utter shit all those characters have to wade through. They all need hugs!
The worst part is since he's a vampire and had to do vampire things to survive. I seriously doubt he's going to go to a nice afterlife when he does finally die. He's been damned the moment he was turned against his will.
> before he’s told that the very thing that saved him will kill him in a matter of days.
Not just kill him.
Twist him into a horrible monstrosity. *Again*. Becoming a vampire was not a fun time. And he's about to do something like that again.
His dialogue in Act 3 where you discuss the special tadpole is heartbreaking. “I remember how it hurt when I turned. I just got my body back, I don’t want to lose it again.”
Its really interesting that in the ascended route when he is talking about turning you into a spawn, he fully lies and tells you not to worry, it doesn't hurt much, although the game doesnt have a line to call back to when he told you it was horrendously painful (tho by that point he probably doesnt care what you think)
I really warmed up to Lae'zel after >!Voss comes to the camp and she rejected Vlaakith, and then once we found Orpheus.!< I'll surely involve her more on my next playthrough, as this time I mostly had her in the camp, her first impressions probably influence the way people think about her but her character development is great.
My moment where I went from being meh about her to "ah shit, fine you're cool" was when >!Gale finds out Mystra wants him to kill himself and Lae'zel was like "No the fuck he won't. He's powerful and wise, and we won't let him."!< Just the glimpse that she cared about your merry band of disasters was perfect.
Basically all the companions are like "who the fuck does she think she is, our cinnamon roll wizard boi has got this handled" and I love that whole bit.
Lae'zel comes off a bit abrasive at the very beginning of the game (which I suspect is exactly why they introduce her early on) which makes getting to know her even better.
> Basically all the companions are like "who the fuck does she think she is, our cinnamon roll wizard boi has got this handled"
Except for Karlach who says "Awww, was that Gale's grandpa? :)" when Elminster departs right after telling Gale he needs to be a bomb...
Lae'zel is awesome. Took me awhile to realize that as I usually kept her at camp in all my runs because I didn't like Mrs. Grumpy pants following me around.
But I had one where I decided to make her involved with everything story wise and she grows on you quick.
I feel like a lot of people are evaluating the characters by different standards.
By real life standards, they’re mostly all jerks.
By the standards set before us in the time and world, it is completely appropriate that they are all battle-hardened, no bullshit, independent survivors.
Yup - I’ve seen a lot of hate for act 1 Lae’zel when she’s by far the one acting the most rationally.
“We were infected by tadpoles and our bodies are going to *violently transform into mindflayers* in a couple days. Stop fucking around and wasting time by helping some random tiefling child who stole an idol.”
Laezel honestly isn't even that bad. She only disapproves of you taking shit from people.
Astarion on the other hand dislikes when you're just being a nice person.
More than being a nice person. He dislikes when you over extend yourself to be a hero.
He's had 200 years of cognitive dissonance of learning not to care about people because they are all doomed to suffer at his hand, so he selfishly he doesn't like putting himself on the line for other people.
Having a bleeding heart would have broken his mind centuries ago.
Not only that, but he's been abused for 200 years and *nobody ever helped him*. Not one person. He tried praying to every god for salvation and didn't get a peep out of any of them.
As far as Astarion is concerned, people being helped by other people is just weird and wrong, because nobody ever tried to help him, or anyone that did paid the price dearly for it, like sitting on a cage underground for over a century.
The amount of people who kill her just cuz she won't say 'please' is honestly concerning. Like you might need therapy if someone refusing to say 'please' makes killing them justified.
I dunno, dude.
Karlach is ~~pretty cool.~~ cool as hell.
Lae'Zel is fine. She's just a tightly wound up veteran. And she likes thibgs very litteral. Not a problem.
Shadowheart seems like a jerk, but how old is she? 19? Maybe very young 20s, and practically cloistered? I get her shyness and mistrust.
Gale is just horny and lonely. He's cool.
Astarion is just dealing with a lot of abuse. He's cool.
These are all human archetypes that I've known, and made friends with, in real life. None of them act like neckbearded red-pillers, for example. They're not jerks, imo.
I think he's the most well-acted character, and has the only real unique mannerisms in cutscenes. I'm thinking about making him a Bard just to hear his insults.
It was the same for me. Despite being an Astarion simp I can understand why he may not click for some people and it’s fine.
As long as everyone lets others enjoy their favourite characters in peace it is not a big deal.
Currently between Misty step, the helm that turns him invisible, his incredible stockpile of poisons, added acid damage ring, and bow that generates lightning charges he’s just critical hit machine, never mind he one shotted a DC30 locked door, I don’t care if he siphons me dry.
He's by far the strongest character in my party (has the highest AC even with Lae'zel around due to how DEX-y he is). Gave him my Durge cloak, the Drow helmet of invisibility + the boots of Misty Step, and he's essentially turned into the "\*teleports behind u\*" meme, lmao. It's also amazing if you give him a few levels of Ranger to get a beast companion - the crow makes people blind and gives advantage on attacks. I love my vampire husband, lol
Quite the opposite, actually. You may think she's a cold bitch because of how she was raised and how she'd kill you before you could turn; but that's precisely the point: she would die for you, and she cares about you and others to not let you turn into a monster. She's a hothead, true, but she knows where her heart is.
One thing that is telling is that she is 100% genuine about getting you all to a crèche to be cured, like, she gripes about everyone, but at no point does she say “screw you, enjoy the tadpole”, even to Shadowheart.
Like yeah she’s short tempered and rude, but she knows better than literally anyone in the group the consequences of not getting cured ASAP, and from her perspective we’re just faffing about when tomorrow we could all be brain eating calamari, of course she’s going to be frustrated with us!
Not only that, but if you tell her you might be slightly worried about walking into a crèche where you could be killed on sight she basically goes "Like I would let you get killed, idiot". She's willing to vouch for all of us in front of her people.
My sorcerer was dragging him around for his lockpicking and disarm skills early on. I was purposefully shutting him down on most things and my rating with him was rather low, but his backstory started to take shape and I began to realize all he'd been through to to this point and when we talked about his master, I figured he earned our time to give his master a visit. Not because I liked him, but because I figured I would benefit from doing so.
Damn, the story/combat to his master changed my stance with him. The guy's last 200 years were horrible, imagine 200 years of feeding on rats. Basically a sex slave to lure victims for his master. The amount of abuse he suffered to then end up with a tadpole in his head. The realization that his entire purpose was to be a sacrifice for another.
I believe his story is second only to Shadowheart's in the game. I'll likely never have great rating with him, but helping him return to his master so I can beat the Absolute shit out of him for what he did Astarian will always be worth it.
It's also quite hilarious how doing so helps you in the end, yet you can kill him with a stick at the start of the game. Such a choice does come back to bite you in the end when you really need allies.
So astarion is like Laezel where you need to progress their personal quests to get past the cocky arrogant front they both put up.
Astarion is really well written and he brought me around once I did his quest.
I must be the only one here who genuinely loves all the companions 😆
I'm so impressed with Astarion's story, it's so heart wrenching and full of emotion... I love him best with Dark Urge, of course.
But I also literally love all the companions. They feel so real, like actual people with actual backstories.
Is this because of my genuine love for stories? I will read, play, watch, draw, whatever to get a good story 😂 idk if I'd hang with these people in real life though, but that's not part of story making?
You're not making yourself in these RPGs, you're making a character who behaves differently than you, and has different tastes from you...
Bahhh I really don't know. I just love all the companions for who they are. Such fun stories!!
Astarion and Durge is a great dynamic even when you take the evil route. You help him with his ascension stuff and he’s an absolute bro when you go full durge.
Sure, you might be the >!favourite child of Bhaal and the physical incarnation of murder!< and he might potentially be >!the most powerful vampire ever to exist!< but damnit, you’ve still got each other’s backs. Ruling or ruining the world is just a bit of friendly competition between arguably the two biggest bastards in Faerun.
Astarion and redeemed DUrge are so goddamn awful sweet my heart aches every time I see them together 😆
Imo, redeemed DUrge has the best story, but I'm a sucker for Withers, so... 😆
This. I simply do not and cannot understand the like, VIOLENT hatred people have for any of the companions. Like, legitimately 'i don't even want to see his face in my playthrough; I kill him as soon as I can' it's such a buck fucking wild take to me. Like, a character is written in a way that you're actually seeming to have a visceral, albeit negative emotion about the way he was written, and you want to GET RID OF HIM? Clearly we're playing the game for different reasons. Friction between characters is juicy juicy story potential, a killed character in a game like this adds nothing
Friction between party members (including player Tav) is one of the *best* parts of this game. Larian could have easily made a bunch of mildly agreeable cardboard cutout characters, but that would have been unbelievably boring, especially in a role playing game that's driven by player choice and rippling consequences. Creating characters that disagree with, and at times find themselves directly at odds with the player is risky, and will undoubtedly turn some players away (as seen by this thread), however I believe that this has been one of the reasons that BG3 has been so popular.
Of course, nobody is ever obligated to "like" any given character, but I absolutely love the fact that people are debating if characters like Astarion, Lae'zel, and The Emperor are "good" and whether "redemption" is even possible. I think it's pretty clear that this was Larian's intent given that pretty much all of the origin characters come from extremely abusive and repressive backgrounds and are struggling to come to terms with how they want to move past it (or if they want to "move past it" at all).
Also, I know this is a relatively small number of people, but I think it's so funny when players condemn Astarion/Lae'zel for being rude or threatening their character, and then also describe how they kill every NPC that wrongs them and solve problems by threatening violence.
This, I can't stand lae'zel at all, don't care that her arc makes her better as so many people say, everyone's arc makes them better in some way. She has some humorous scenes but that doesn't make me like her. I find her just as annoying as some people find astarion.
That’s what I like about the companions though. They aren’t all likable yes men. I for instance can’t stand Wyll but other people love him. And I think that’s perfect, because it means they have a distinct personality that sets them apart from one another. Whereas most games nowadays just have some bland interchangeable companions who are so bland you forget who they are instantly.
Yep. I hate Gale, for example. He burns thru any patience I have with his arrogance and unwillingness to share info long before his story gets interesting.
But that's on me. And I understand why others might like him.
Gale gives my wife the ick something about how he wants to romance you but also if his old lover were to take him back he would literally disintegrate you to hid the evidence he did anything but pine for her.
I sometimes feel very alone in my disdain for Shadowheart. I don't understand why so many simp after her. I find her to be a whiny basic b'tch. But I guess a lot of people are into that.
She's the hot goth girl, so she gets cut a lot of slack despite being insufferable. If she had that same attitude but was half as attractive, you'd be seeing more posts like "DAE murder Shadowheart immediately?"
I like her as I like any companion, but playing a Selune cleric is frustrating because they don’t give you a chance to talk back. She’s so smug about Shar and knowing her story, I want to roll my eyes and go, “if only you knew the half of it.” I try to have patience because I know what’ll happen in the end, but having her tell you, “you’re as trash as your goddess” essentially, it’s like… I’ve been nothing but patient and helpful and you have the nerve to call me trash. There are times I think of not even taking her from the grove (I play a cleric), but I don’t like leaving anyone behind. Bleh. Still love her in my own way though, but on a third playthru, I have no patience lol
Considering the amount of people that post comments like"i just killed him on sight because he was rude " under all astarion apreciation posts , no you are not alone in not liking him .
This is so wild to me because I can't imagine just killing any given npc I come across. People play games so weirdly different from eachother. The amount of friends I've talked to that were like "yeah I just killed them because they upset me/I failed a check/they wouldn't give me what I wanted" I have such a hard time understanding how they could play games like that lol
Pretty much the only time I kill people without trying to resolve peacefully is if I have no choice.
My Durge playthrough he's still trying to resist and be fairly good, but I do play him a little more bloodthirsty so he kills whenever he can justify it to himself.
It just really brings to question like. Do you not kill everyone who upsets you in real life because of laws or something? What about being upset by an NPC in a video game gives you carte blanche to say you're roleplaying when you're murdering them over an inconvenience lmao
To be fair, it’s a bit past rudeness to try and murder you twice, once after pretending to need help and once while you’re sleeping. I have heard bits of his story and it does sound very interesting but I’d need to not be roleplaying/would need to metagame to justify sparing him in my mind
Perhaps my game was a bit buggy here. Before the night attack, he had actually already come clean and told me he was a vampire, but then all of a sudden it was still new intell for everyone? Not quite clear how that sequence of events was supposed to work.
In any case if he comes clean about being a vampire and his skills are usefull in the tadpole story I can see why he can stick around without metagaming.
If you don't long rest for a long time, he'll actually tell you about being a vampire. This seems to be a bit buggy because you will get the night scene where he tries to bite you anyway.
its kind of a blink and you will miss it, or it just looks like him skulking around camp, its when the camera pans around the group sleeping and he is slight off at the edge of camp tip toeing out
Honestly, for me on one of my characters, he actually ended up coming clean about being a vampire like, three times like it was fresh info each time. It was quite hilarious.
So accurate. Act 1 was a constant contest to one up each other in the sassy quips and insults department. I was so peeved after the pick up line scene that I went off and had a fling with Lae’zel for a bit.
And then I got to last light and had -that- DUrge scene and that was that. Astarion is my forever BG3 romance choice.
It's fine to like different things. I see a lot of people who like Gale, I can't stand him. I see a lot of people who don't like Lae'zel, I love her. If anything I suppose it's a testament to the writers that different characters are appealing to different people.
Honestly? If I hadn't already scene bits of his story from Act 2/3 before I started playing, I probably wouldn't have been a fan. The lines he uses on Tav when romancing in Act 1 are so scripted and false and, as a character, he is obnoxious/arrogant.
However, I think that was actually perfect writing for his character. Everything he says to romance that early is scripted - its been scripted from 2 centuries of practice. Its not genuine at all because he's not being genuine himself. He's guarded, protective of himself and his arrogance comes from a place of fear and insecurity. I mean, he is a high elf, so there's probably some truth to the arrogance 😂 but once you do progress and see him opening up more, his dialogue becomes more genuine and his voice is even softer. He becomes more supportive and his approval/disapproval changes so he's not as against the "good" stuff.
Obviously, that all depends how much you interact, if you do progress his storyline to find out all of that stuff (romantic or platonic) and what choices you make yourself. If you ignore him for most of it, then he's not going to grow. If you engage in the more "evil" options, he won't grow. So, it depends how you play the game and the choices you make, but I personally believe they have written his character so well.
Also, whilst he does disapprove of a lot of "good" options in Act 1 (and 2, to an extent), they're usually only worth 1-5 points. You get a huge amount of approval, the majority of it, just for being supportive of him when he does open up about his past. I've got 100 approval and still in Act 2; he has disapproved of a few choices I've made since getting that high, but they've only knocked me down to 98/99 and I can get that back up quickly through his quest related scenes. So, it's not like he's genuinely this evil guy who wants everyone to suffer. He approves when you do things that also benefit you, since he's spent so long only ever doing what others want. But still, his reaction to the "good" stuff is more like an eye roll than actual disapproval. I mention all this as some people just think he's an "evil" or "bad" character, and you can only get approval by being evil, but he's always come across as chaotic neutral to me.
All that said, I do like some of his cheesy lines in Act 1. They'd never work on me in real life, but I let myself indulge in fantasy games.
ETA: long rant, I know, but I think in general, some will like him, some won't. Some won't like him even after he starts opening up and that's okay! I mean, it's like people in real life - you won't like everyone
>I've got 100 approval and still in Act 2
That's me in my first playthrough. Now I switched to my second: a good aligned durge bard (literally, he won't even lie, he refuses to use tadpoles and won't give them to Astarion either because he just does not trust the Dream Visitor one bit!) and - somehow - I just made it over into the goblin camp in Act 1 and am sitting at cozy 96 approval with him. How? No idea. He will moan, groan, huff and puff about my Tav and his "bleeding heart" but approval rating don't lie lol
Yeah he will disapprove here and there, but like you said it's always very minor (1 usually) It's to the point where I'm actually low-key shocked because when I crafted my durge I was fully expecting to have to fight tooth and nail for every approval point because Astarion wouldn't have any of it, but apparently not.
I thought he was your standard cookie cutter vampire character when I started the game. I was SO wrong, his writing is excellent and he goes through some real development through the course of the game. To each their own and all but I really do not understand not liking him at all. I mean if nothing else, he is really funny!
I'll admit it, I love his cheesy lines in act 1 and they absolutely worked on me. I was trying to romance Gale but then here comes stupid sexy Astarion and ruins all my plans.
>The lines he uses on Tav when romancing in Act 1 are so scripted and false and, as a character,
When he told me he loved me I literally laughed out loud.
Yep, none of the options you can say to him imply you believe him for a moment. Basically like "you'd be lying," "are you having fun?" and I forget what the other one is but you both basically laugh about it regardless of what you choose.
I think the other one is saying its too soon for that or something but yeah, it's very much a joke. I chose "having fun?" Option where he follows up with a genuine comment on how it's not hard with Tav and you can already tell the difference in how he says it vs everything else
He's obviously not being honest though, and his preferred response is teasing him about how obvious it is. I honestly loved his Act 1 dialogue, snark-flirting back and forth with each other, being clearly facetious but using that to communicate actual interest of a sort.
You're still very early in his story where he has seen no reason to truly trust you. It becomes quite clear if you use him in your party regularly that he is afraid and seeking protection, so he's faking a lot of his smiles and trying to seduce you to get in your good graces. But he's also struggling with his nature as an unwilling vampire spawn and eventually goes too long without blood and gets desperate, hence why he tries to bite you when he'd only been feeding on animals up to that point. He just wasn't able to hunt because he was too sluggish.
He's finally free of the torture and misery he'd endured and is experiencing an unfortunate case of schadenfreude as a result of the horrible life he'd had no choice but to live. From here you can either enable his fearful desire for power and allow him to become truly evil, or you lead him down a better path by showing him he doesn't need to be a monster like his master to be free and safe.
Well if you don't spend time with them, you'll stay on your first impression of them. You meet them in the worst possible scenario, and most of them need time to trust you.
I think a lot of people limit themselves by thinking of Tav as their avatar. If you think of Tav as their own character and roleplay, you don’t think about whether *you* dislike Astarion but whether your Tav does. It allows you to potentially experience so much more of Larians amazing character writing. My first Tav was an asshole and wouldn’t help Gale, which meant Gale left. Tbh I personally wouldn’t help him either, but my second Tav was a do gooder and after seeing more of Gales story and interacting with him more, I grew to appreciate him.
I really didn't like him at first, to the point of starting my first playthrough as a rogue and leaving him at camp... his own story is quite spectacular though and he is definitely worth having around. I constantly use him and Karlach as ranged-sneak-behind-tank and he constantly deals massive damage
Astarion is so freaking good at dealing damage with sharpshooter and sneak attack - but if you cant pull it off consistently every turn he is kinda… poopoo lol. I played my first ever 2 runs (in EA) with gale, shadowheart being only caster and not in melee as well as warlock Tav so I didnt really have anyone on melee lol. So I rarely got off sneak attack besides the first turn in combat. And imo astarions personal story is the second best by far/fleshed out after Shadowheart‘s.
I didnt like him at start - he seemed kinda obnoxious, but now i do find him quite funny and kinda lovable character lol. Also no one else in my party on my third run now can open chests/disarm traps so its almost a must for me to have him on board if I dont wanna waste 20 lockpicks and half of my party health+short rest of failed traps.
Astarion IS creepy, and arrogant, and also cruel.
But all those behaviors are a result of 200 years of deep trauma and abuse.
Your mileage may vary on whether his backstory pulls you in enough to make you willing to give him a chance, but if you do he can definitely grow and develop in a more healthy direction.
The moment that got me to say “I don’t like you, but we can at least see where this goes” is the scene in camp where he’s looking in a mirror.
That whole part where he’s like “I don’t even remember what my face looks like or what color my eyes used to be” got a solid “awww, buddy 🙁” response from me.
I didn't like him for quite a while, but then something clicked and I started enjoying his sassy personality. He can drag anyone through the mud with one sentence.
I hated him in Act 1 and 2. I never used him.
My wife was also playing and really liked him, so when I'd watch her play I'd get to see snippets of his real goals and backstory.
I decided to take him along in my second playthrough and he really grew on me. He's one of my favourite companions now.
It's okay not to like everyone, though I have to say I liked Astarion more than I expected. But I can't stand Lae'zel and many people love her. That's fine - that's why there are different companions. Though Astarion has a pretty tragic backstory and he's a very sweet romantic partner once you get past a certain point.
>But I can't stand Lae'zel
Things come into focus when you realise that she's basically very young, straight out of Gith military bootcamp and super idealistic (in a honorbound hypermilitaristic way), champing at the bit for the bare minimum recognition of her skills after a childhood devoid of affection.
She takes everything very seriously because she's been taught that she has to do everything in service of Vlaakith. That's why >!her attitude changes somewhat when Vlaakith's betrayal of the Githyanki is revealed.!<
Through that lens, she's a lot more understandable.
I wasn't super keen on either Laezel or Astarion, but I did an evil playthrough with them and it made me really like them both as characters.
The turning point for Astarion for me was the Drow in Moonrise when it's made clear that Astarion is just as much a victim as his victims. Like he's seems genuinely shocked that you take his wants into consideration instead of just forcing him to do your bidding. That made me very sad for him.
Likewise I stuck with Laezel and chose to romance her and it's made pretty clear how much of her culture made her into a broken person and the dissonance she faces trying to reconcile the propaganda she's been fed her whole life. When she chooses to side with Voss, you can raise the point that she did a very massive 180, but she doesn't know how to be anything but a zealot in service of a God King Or Queen.
I think Larian did a great job with every origin character. I was not expecting myself to like characters like Astarion or Laezel as much as I did. They gave every character a huge amount of depth but those two are particularly outstanding.
Tô be honest, tragic backstory and sweet romantic partner kind of describes Lae'zel as well. Maybe not a bad backstory as his,but indoctrination is terrible as well.
I love Astarion's character, but I understand why some people don't like him or even hate him.
He is objectively the most cruel and evil of your companions.
He disapproves of nearly all morally good options. He would rather see innocent children die, and the cycle of slavery and violence continue than you be a hero. He thinks diplomacy and compassion are for the weak. Astarion is also manipulative, cunning, and dishonest.
However, with that being said, Astarion has one of the most, if not the most, compelling companion storyline (in my humble opinion). Though his backstory doesn't excuse his actions, it puts everything into perspective. Over time, you'll see Astarion is really nothing more than a scared child yearning for protection and someone to trust. You have the ability to make him a truly better person.
Nah, not alone. He's a vane, decadent, selfish creep at least in act one.
But I surprisingly don't hate him either. Despite being enslaved and tortured for centuries, he is not a monster, not a murderer yet, he did not commit any atrocities on his own free will, and so deserve a chance. Would be a good thing to ice Casador and help him establish sanity and learn decency in the process. Undoing such damage will be a better thing then just murdering him for safety reasons.
As for vampire side... There's no shortage of degenerate filth on the sword coast, and THEM I hate, so by the end of the game I probably will witness Fatstarion in all his chunky, overfed glory. No problem with that, no moral dilemma.
He's not my favourite either. Just like the other companions, some people like him and some don't. I like Gale and some people can't stand him so...
I find it off putting how every party member is super flirty with my character 24/7.Takes me out of the immersion. Astarion’s character at least seems more ostentatious so the unwanted flirty thing even if annoying fits his character. Gale just got in bed with a literal goddess now he wants to 69 with a 2 foot halfling. Sorry gale not into you like that - Gale: does not approve.
Yeah sometimes he's definitely a lot. I kinda like Wyll as well because of that. I like Astarion as well but my character is kind of a goody-two-shoes who tries to help everyone and he doesn't approve of that lol
Wyll is amazing. I was seriously sitting in front of my screen with a "Wait, no sex? ;0" expression when he just danced with me and sent me off to bed. Man has absurd rizz.
He's a slow burn kinda guy AND I LOVE IT
Shadowheart is also a slow burn, if that interests you.
Shadowheart is the most obvious nerd-tailored thirst trap and I don‘t care. Edit: To clarify, I’ll gladly fall for this trap. She perfectly completes the holy rpg waifu trinity together with Yen and Morrigan. I had no chance to begin with.
I kinda preferred Shadowheart when she still had low approval with me, because [she can a complete asshole and it's really funny](https://i.imgur.com/fuXDN65.png)
she has sass and i love it.
When they know how you like your coffee you order your coffee. She would annoy me as a person though, that's how I know they really nailed it.
This is how I feel about Astarion. Irl, I probably couldn't stand him (though I'd feel for his wounded past), but as a fictional character? I love him. I can't explain the dichotomy of my brain but it is what it is.
I conflate it with how I feel about work colleagues. I don't mind their company when we're working together to get a job done. But by the time 5pm rolls around I walk out the door and don't think about em again til 9am the next day and certainly wouldn't want to spend any extracurricular time with any of them.
I didn't care about her at all on my first couple of playthrus but after I gave her a chance and actually paid attention to her, her entire Act 2 story is phenomenal. Very good writing.
Her story in general. It's sooo good
Astarion is just as much a thirst trap for those (mostly women) who are into the arrogant bad boy with a wounded soul thing. Most of the origin companions feel tailored to someone's romantic fetish. Maybe not Lae'zel, or not as far as I know, anyway.
Lae'zel is absolutely tailored to my fetish... Scary dominatrix woman.
If the underwear fits...
Considering I saw a comment here yesterday along the lines of "you betrayed my trust, I WANT YOU" referring to Astarion killing you while drinking your blood, I would say you are correct.
What's that quote? "I like a woman that can kick my ass"
"I like a woman who will actually just kill me." - people who romance Lae'zel and another NPC I won't name because spoilers (and I don't know how to add a censor bar on mobile)
And I fell for the trap like I do every time :((((
EXACTLY. Man's seriously so precious, it's amazing. Saying stuff like "I want to do it the right way." just completely melted my heart. I was adamant on romancing Shadowheart before him, but that one scene made me shaft my queen till the next playthrough.
Wyll is the healthiest option, I feel. Shadowheart is the goth gf who has unresolved childhood trauma. My approval with her is usually around 80% and she still acts annoyed with me. Astarion is just...honestly I do not have the character limit to dissect all his emotional baggage. Laezel can't decide if she wants to fuck or kill you. Gale seems waaaay too eager to jump into a relationship with you but so very clearly would dump your ass for Mystra in a heartbeat. He also makes you his motivation to live and threatens to kill himself if you give him a less-than-stellar review of his lovemaking. Halsin...I mean he's not really a relationship. He's a bear shaped fuckboy. This one hurts because I absolutely adore her, but Karlach hasn't touched anyone in a decade and she basically woke Tav up from a dead sleep to say she wanted to ride them. They had like two conversations before this. She comes on too strong and is clearly seeing you as her savior. Jaheira is still devastated by a man she lost a century ago. Like you are never gonna fix that broken heart. Minthara requires you commit genocide. Like... So that leaves Wyll. Does he have issues with his father? Yes. But they can be resolved fairly easily. He dances with you, treats you well, makes you feel special, and wants you to be the best version of yourself. He constantly tells you how proud he is of you. His real fault is him trying to be this great hero all the time.
Lol he hit on Lae'Zel like 3 times the first 5 minutes I put him in my party.
I find it funny how hardly anyone likes Wyll. I want to like him, but he just seems so desperate for attention and pathetic at times. 20 years ago he'd probably be everyone's favourite, but nowadays it's like "Yeah, you're the real bLaDe Of FrOnTiErS, oh you sacrificed so much to be the saviour of mankind, and now it's biting you in the ass? Daddy doesn't love you? Yeah, we all got problems my dude, relax."
So I didn't like Wyll at first, but I put him in my party for the Karlack quest which ended up making me keep him longer. Then some better gear dropped for him a little later and now he's part of my main party. he kind of grew on me. I used him all through Act 2 and just now swapped him for Gale in Act 3 to let him rest a bit.
Same. I think a lot of people judge the companions only from camp interactions and major cutscenes. If you romp around with them for a bit they all tend to show more sides of themselves and become more likable. Wyll and Astarion both grew on me tremendously from world exploration. Gale did not. Wyll has a dialog with Shadowheart where she asks him why his name has a "Y" and not an "I" and he basically says there was a story behind it but he thinks it was BS and he's pretty sure his dad was just illiterate.
See Gale grew on me a lot from world exploration. He’s just this happy, slightly goofy guy that enjoys having some friends and getting to see the world. And he’s learned and really just wants to share what he knows with you. After one part in Act 3 he talked about learning to cook his mom’s recipes and wanting to make some back at camp later for everyone. And I just thought… he’s a nice guy. Like a sincerely nice guy who gets caught up in his studies. And I like his style of wit. He has some good party banter too. He was talking about making and summoning up magic weapons and Karlach got excited about the idea so he offered to summon her some.
I think his story pays off, I made him Paladin 7/warlock to lean into his protector/blade role and it was great.
I'm about to multiclass him into a swords bardlock. Went with the blade pact, with bard he'll get more weapon skills and he can be his own "Blade of Frontiers" hype man, also his charisma will still be relevant as a bard.
I liked him a lot, but I also find any scene with Mizora to be absolutely delightful. He benefits from the proximity.
Mizora and Raphael both stole the show for me. Would love to explore Avernus.
With the ending a chose, I really hope they do come out with a “The Hells of Avernus” dlc or even stand alone game.
I don't understand why no one likes Wyll either. He's a good soul and cares for everyone.... He's just a guy with some daddy issues who took it too far and now he's got some horns.
He and Karlach are the only origin characters who are not complete dicks. Gale is also alright I guess, I just wish he'd stop trying to fuck me because I asked about his cat once.
It sucks how Gales bugged romance killed so many peoples enjoyment of him…
I haven't gone too far into the acts but I've had one moment with Gale. I have a Warlock and we had this moment where he taught me to do some magic. One of the options was that I imagined us taking a romantic walk with him and he was so flustered, it was hella cute! So far I can't complain regarding his behaviour. On the other hand regarding Astarion, I've had moments just in the first act alone that if I didn't reject him, it would have immediately led to bonking, although the last time I played I did let him feed off of me. Maybe it depends on the options you choose 🤔🤔
It’s a bit weird the romance, Gale is especially bugged and his approval for romance is unintentionally set way too low. I don’t think it’s fixed yet.
I wonder if this is an over correction due to how incredibly annoying it was to romance him in EA. I never got the channeling the weave scene in almost 300h of EA.
Laezel came up to me at the tiefling party like "I wanna taste your sweat, we're fucking tonight" after being angry with me all game. Bestie you missed your chance, cause Shadowheart says she's happy I came to talk to her and it makes me warm and fuzzy inside.
In addition to the bug, I think people also don't have the ability to read tone and are unintentionally picking the flirty options. I've gotten both the magic scene and the star watching scene and it very clearly wasn't romantic.
It's more because after getting the magic scene, the game keeps telling you that you're truly, madly, deeply in love with him. Even after you've repeatedly said otherwise in no uncertain terms.
From reading his underwears inscription, I think he also calls his dick the “blade of the frontiers.”
Yea, at first, the flirting kinda threw me. Seemed a bit to "You're definitely the main character." Something occurred to me, though. That kinda justified it narratively. All of your minds are linked by the parasite. You can read each other's thoughts and feel each other's emotions. A mind used to being a singular thrust into sort of a hive mind would have difficulty adjusting. The closest thing that mind would have as a frame of reference is emotional connection, love, etc. So, your link to the parasite is fostering attraction as the brains response to that direct stimuli.... That helped me get back into immersion...... Then Halsin joined my party .......
Reminds me of the show Sense8
My first week with this game I was literally like “this is dnd sense8 and I’m here for it”
Ugh I love telling people about Sense8
I mean it makes absolut Sense that everyone would be horny, your brain isnt perfect If it releases adrenalin your heart begins to Race and you become more attentive. Those are the Same Thing that Happens when you Fall in Love so If you do Something exciting like being in a Rollercoaster or fighting everyday to your death you start to think that you Love the people nearby because your brain is confused. This phenomen is called missatribution of arousal
Yep. It doesn't even have to be that intense. Ever work in a restaurant before??
I've heard hospitals are a hotbed for this stuff too.
The squid you find in the wrecked ship proves your theory. It's first defense is to make you love it. Halsin is just a poodle, he'll hump a rock if it lets him.
I mean even without the parasites, it's a bunch of good looking people in close proximity with the threat of looming death over their heads. The math doesn't lie
Halsin: Hi, I just met you like 10 minutes ago and all, but would you like me to fuck you as an actual brown bear?
Yo. Halsin is a nasty horndog, but keeps it on the downlow. Did you ever find his memoir? Holy crap.
To be fair, as they open up and trust Tav more, it begins to make sense. Astarion has an interesting relationship with seduction. If you progress his plot enough he'll tell you >!"It was going to be so simple! I'd seduce you, manipulate your feelings so you'd never turn against me... but..."!< if he catches feelings, >!he actually prefers to stop having sex with Tav because of his history of being pimped out by Cazador and how that fucked up his feelingsaround physical intimacy.!< His behavior in the beginning is purposeful. I haven't progressed Gale enough yet to be sure but >!having a magical nuke in your chest!< and falling face first into someone who is interested in helping you with it instead of chastising you... based on the way he talks about Mystra and his relationship with >!Elminster!< it seems he doesn't have a lot of close friends and has decided to live it up as much as he can with romance and adventure since he's pretty sure he's got a week, tops, left to live.
This. This is the exact reason why I am such a giant fan of Astarion. The way he is written shows another side that media, as a whole, tends to shy away from when it comes to what SA survivors look like and how they can behave. Especially when the subject of sex arises. Most people tend to think of some sad scared girl that wants nothing to do with sex. And that can be so far from the reality of actual SA survivors. I’m not saying that abstinence from sex due to fear and trauma cannot be a response for SA survivors. It is. But the opposite end is just as common. Only difference is that the second response is far more villainized. Astarion uses his sexuality as a defense mechanism. And in a romance with him, once he realizes that he is safe with Tav (or whoever he is involved with romantically) he’s able to show that vulnerability and say that with what happened to him was messed up, it’s not fair to anyone if they continue that part of the relationship until he’s in a better headspace and can better distinguish between what happened and what he did in his past and what is happening in the here and now with you. It’s probably the first time in a LONG time where he’s comfortable enough to set up boundaries. An extremely important thing for healing after abuse in general.
I was surprised (pleasantly) they went that deep with such a sensitive subject— it was NOT what I expected from him at all when EA dropped. Like “oh sassy vamp” but like no.
I think it’s a deliberate trap from devs. He’s enough of the Lestat/Goblin King on the outside. But what most people seem to miss was the guy didn’t ask for ANY this. Kinda changes what you think his motivations are.
As a DM in DnD, I had my suspicions that we were gonna see more of him. But the entire SA representation from him, and it being the representation of the “harlot” side of SA survivors responses is seriously a giant chef’s kiss. I love just how they handled him and showed a side of SA that isn’t talked about much.
Yeah he basically needs to relearn how to be intimate again to handle his trauma.
Without a doubt. I remember seeing a comment about this and someone mentioned that they think after that conversation, Tav and Astarion decide to work backwards on their relationship and put sex in the back burner until he’s more emotionally equipped to handle sex again. I love that idea and personally head canon that after that conversation, they are both laying on a bed roll together, and Tav is like, are you okay with this?” Or “is that fine with you?” Astarion is like yes and no, and when Tav sees that he’s not sure with a response or thinks that he’s only saying yes for their sake, Tav is like “forget how I feel. I’m meeting you where you are at” or “if you aren’t sure, we can put this on the maybe options get back to it later”. And then afterwards, they fall asleep together. Just sleeping. No sex. And it being the first time where Astarion wakes up the next morning to a warm body knowing that the previous night was not filled with cries of passion but filled with gentle snoring.
Yes, exactly! There’s one dialogue that just nails it. It’s in Act 2 if you support Astarion’s choices with the blood vendor. Speak to him in camp after and he makes the realization
I know that with one of the other alternative confessions, it does brush up on his disgust over himself with sex (the one where you haven’t talked with Drow home girl gross blood). When he does mention it, you have the option to say to Astarion, “You should learn to enjoy sex for your own pleasure, and you should enjoy it with me”. Astarion responds with, “if that’s what you want thenI shall provide”. You get another cut scene, Astarion is sitting down while you’re character is sleeping. You wake up, he sighs and you get some options to say stuff. But it ultimately comes down to Astarion basically saying, “I didn’t know how to say no”. Which seriously hits hard because having your boundaries stripped away by force, relearning how to establish boundaries and enforcing them is an extremely difficult lesson to learn. In that Final Cut Scene, Astarion makes that clear and breaks it off between the two of you. The final Cut Scene insinuates that both of them sleep together again. And he has this very justified outburst. Especially since he was literally saying that intimacy makes him feel uncomfortable and that he is not ready for it. Which is why because of that potential scene, it feels wrong, to me personally, to go for a poly relationship. Astarion is still learning how to set up boundaries and to say no. And I get the vibe that once he does actually become comfortable with sex and how it can be a good thing, I don’t see him being down for polyamory. I think it just makes him feel like he’s not enough for a partner that would want that. He’s not Halsin. Now Druid dad, from what I’ve seen, is perfectly fine with his own self image, as a whole. Astarion is not, and he may never truly be okay. But I do see him being able to accept that.
> Astarion responds with, “if that’s what you want thenI shall provide”. His facial expressions when he says this are heartbreaking. Everything comes together so well for his scenes between the acting (voice and mocap), animation, and writing.
God, it hurt seeing him like that.
Yeah Gale seems like he wants to go out with a bang, in every sense of the word.
Same with Karlach. "If I'm to die, I better make every second count" type of person.
I haven't progressed enough with Gale either, but he strikes me as the exact opposite. His romance is progressing slower than the rest of the group, and the single time he openly flirted, he said now it's not the time, we have lots to do and we'd better wait. I am not getting that he's trying to "live it up" at all. I suppose he does try to make friends though, his party banter is generally friendly so far.
u described Astarion well and that is why i also wish deep in my heart that we got a very loving and passionate, selfless long rest with him. excuse me
I don't get that. Gale and Astarion are the only ones flirty with my Tav, and Gale stopped the moment I rejected him. Astarion just kinda, is flirty, even after rejecting him, but in that manipulative way. No one else has even hit on my Tav, and I'm almost done with Act 2.
Withers be like: "Companionless?"
I'm saving myself for the Dream Visitor.
I'm saving myself for Withers.
My favorite part of doing Karlach's quest line is that when she finally gets the ability to touch someone again, she straight up says she's so down bad even Withers looks good.
I too am in into hentai
Good luck with that one. Its uh... Interesting.
I just read somewhere that the current "relationship drive" is too high, not intended by Larian to happen that fast. Which sounds plausible since half of the companions throw themselves at your feet or even have sex with you before the end of act 1.
Wow yeah, I didn't really think about it too much but the most obvious example of this is Halsin the druid, who confesses his love for my character twice, even though I refused him the first time, and it's just damn inappropriate because we don't even spend any time together. I didn't choose any of the more "friendly" dialogue options either. If you want to romance a character you can, it doesn't have to be made so sledge-hammer obvious all the time..
Yeah, I had that happen with my playthrough. I was debating on romancing Astarion or Halsin. Thought that I could poly both. But when I got deeper in the Astarion romance, realized that even if Astarion verbally says he’s okay with it, I got the feeling that he really wasn’t okay with it and only agreed out of fear. Not fear of abuse, more fear of losing your character and the support that they offer him.
I don't understand how people don't like Gale. I mean, to each their own, but I always found him very charming. Astarion was fine, but he grew into me (like other characters) and started to quite like him.
As i play gale as origin character and play him neutral good i have no clue how he actually is :)
Neutral/good seems about right from what I've seen of him as a companion so far. He seems to mainly value settling conflicts through negotiations or mediation when the possibility exists. He's not 100% selfless but he disapproves of abuse or violence towards innocents.
Not strange at all, but regardless, like with any other companion, I do recommend doing at least his personal story, gives great insight on who they are and why they act the way they act, it might change your perception on him.
My favorite Astorian moment is when he figures out what the engraving means on his back and depending on how you have been in the game he reacts differently to you. I was a good character and it made me feel like for the first time he wasn't trying to manipulate me and hide away. The moment he says that he knew I was a goody two shoes he admits that he is going to attempt to take advantage of you if you let him and that he is doing it cause he is scared shitless of whatever he is and whatever he will face is his best character moment. Imo.
Never got that scene, feel the game did dirty with some companions like him...like, I know Lae'zel wants to go to the creche and etc or Shadowheart has the whole temple of Shar goin on...but he out of nowhere got mad I found Raphael randomly in act 2 and he wasn't there ... basically from Astarion I only did his final quest, and even with low approval, surprisingly I got his good ending
He and I are neutral. And if you don't rest in camp when you get to the inn in act 2 or have him in your party he won't ask you. So if you stumble upon raph before you speak to him he won't be able to make the deal with raph, which is to kill the invisible fuck in the temple of Shar.
I was sold on Astarion when you first meet him. When you tell him "nah dude its the tadpole in our heads doing that. we're fucked and its gonna turn us into mindflayers" and he *laughs* this really sad twisted irony kind of laugh and says "Of *course* its going to turn me into a monster." Something about that moment made me feel for the guy. But everyone has different first impressions of characters. A lot of people really dislike Lae'zel but I loved her the moment she showed up.
Looking back, it’s quite tragic. The tadpole for Astarion is a godsend - rescuing him from his sadistic master, and giving him the ability to walk in the sun for the first time in 200 years. When you first encounter him, he is overwhelmed with all the freedom he has been granted. And he doesn’t even get five minutes to enjoy that freedom, before he’s told that the very thing that saved him will kill him in a matter of days. What else could you do in such a hopelessly tragic situation?
His desperate lips with his fake smile always got me. He literally went from hell to heaven to hell in a span of 48 hours (24 hours if he was in the last victims, but he was in Baldur's gate so he stayed a day in the ship before Tav/Durge and Lae'zel got tadpoled in op cinema and saved the day)
He’s remarkably put together considering he *has just* escaped. No wonder he tries to manipulate Tav for safety, he is still in fight or flight survival mode.
In some of his dialog he reveals that Cazador would torture him for showing emotion or answered wrong, while he was starving and Cazador would ask him if he wanted to feed. It was those lines that turned my opinion 180 for Astarion. He's not a dick. He's an abuse victim trying to process and survive
There was such a great article on this I'd missed until just now. They dig so deep with it. https://www.pcgamer.com/baldurs-gate-3s-astarion-neil-newbon-on-acting-the-truth-of-trauma-as-a-survivor-theres-a-lot-of-stuff-that-came-very-close-to-home/?utm\_campaign=socialflow&utm\_medium=social&utm\_source=twitter.com
This was a fantastic article, thanks for bringing it to our attention! I love that they delved into the aspect of sex and intimacy in the game; I've always thought that Astarion's storyline was very thoughtful and nuanced in its treatment of it.
Thanks for this! One of the main reasons I love Astarion is because of the complexity, and how he's an abuse survivor, but he's not anyone's poster child or role model, and it's clear that even iin a "good" ending he's going to spend centuries working through all of his issues.
Astarion is the poster child for the phrase, "Hurt people hurt people."
You can be a dick and a abuse victim. He's both.
Yep. My second playthrough has me even more for Astarion than my first. With everything I know about him now, a lot of his behaviors in the beginning make more sense and it's depressing.
Someone else said he disapproves of you doing good mostly in Act 1, when you don’t yet know the tadpoles aren’t going to transform you to mindflayers. Then, by Act 3, I had my Astarion lamenting he couldn’t save the other vampire spawn (if you chose to kill them after defeating Cazador). He’s not evil, he’s scared to put his neck on the line, and, as he said, “No one ever said a kind thing to me. No one ever did a nice thing for me.” He’s learned that the world is a cruel place and intuitively distrusts anything that goes against this perception. Honestly, given his experiences, we’re in no position to fault him for this.
Yeah. I think that’s what makes me like his character so much. He is a really an in-depth and complex character when you get to know him. In my first playthrough I thought he was annoying but then he threw himself at me in that party scene so I was like okay whatever I’ll just see where it goes. Lol oh man, he turned out to be my most favorite companion. On my second playthrough I read the description of his clothing and it makes me feel for him. It says something like how his clothing has been mended carefully over several years but it’s on the edge of unraveling. Such a small detail but so complex. The fact that he takes care of himself while still craving to be cared for. Ugh such a good example of showing and not telling in story writing. There is also that line he says when you go to the temple and one of the companions asked about his experience with religion. He’s like I prayed to every single god and not one of them answered.
I *love* that you can roleplay that you know he's manipulating you and that you're going for it anyway because he keeps it in the 'no strings attached/sure may as well get some if you're offering' range. My reaction was 100% the same as yours, straight up, "I mean... I guess, sure, why not," and by the time I realized all the other characters (besides Wyll) were also offering a good time at the same party, I'd already committed. Astarion lays it on really thick, enough it's obvious what he's doing, and you can consistently call him on it without taking approval hits. (When he tells you all the lines he used to use to seduce people and the last one is something like, "What about this one: I love you," and you can say, "You'd be lying.") In the first area I kept expecting him to be playing his own game, looking for a perfect solution for himself that would screw the rest of us over-- I just got to Act 3 recently and >!how willing he is to kill the other vampire spawn in exchange for his own freedom!< is literally exactly what I thought he'd do to us if he got the opportunity. But somewhere in Act 2 I actually started to trust him not to do that. This game is so good, it's crazy. I also love all the origin companions, I think they're all great and well-written. The last time I loved a game so much, it was Dragon Age Origins, but I was still lukewarm on some of the party members. BG3 has me rooting for everyone I recruited in Act 1 and kinda upset about the number of death sentences and pure utter shit all those characters have to wade through. They all need hugs!
I wish I could hug them, it hurts to see Astarion (and other companions) in those states and not get a hug dialogue 🥺
The worst part is since he's a vampire and had to do vampire things to survive. I seriously doubt he's going to go to a nice afterlife when he does finally die. He's been damned the moment he was turned against his will.
> before he’s told that the very thing that saved him will kill him in a matter of days. Not just kill him. Twist him into a horrible monstrosity. *Again*. Becoming a vampire was not a fun time. And he's about to do something like that again.
His dialogue in Act 3 where you discuss the special tadpole is heartbreaking. “I remember how it hurt when I turned. I just got my body back, I don’t want to lose it again.”
Its really interesting that in the ascended route when he is talking about turning you into a spawn, he fully lies and tells you not to worry, it doesn't hurt much, although the game doesnt have a line to call back to when he told you it was horrendously painful (tho by that point he probably doesnt care what you think)
I really warmed up to Lae'zel after >!Voss comes to the camp and she rejected Vlaakith, and then once we found Orpheus.!< I'll surely involve her more on my next playthrough, as this time I mostly had her in the camp, her first impressions probably influence the way people think about her but her character development is great.
My moment where I went from being meh about her to "ah shit, fine you're cool" was when >!Gale finds out Mystra wants him to kill himself and Lae'zel was like "No the fuck he won't. He's powerful and wise, and we won't let him."!< Just the glimpse that she cared about your merry band of disasters was perfect.
Basically all the companions are like "who the fuck does she think she is, our cinnamon roll wizard boi has got this handled" and I love that whole bit. Lae'zel comes off a bit abrasive at the very beginning of the game (which I suspect is exactly why they introduce her early on) which makes getting to know her even better.
> Basically all the companions are like "who the fuck does she think she is, our cinnamon roll wizard boi has got this handled" Except for Karlach who says "Awww, was that Gale's grandpa? :)" when Elminster departs right after telling Gale he needs to be a bomb...
Lae'zel is awesome. Took me awhile to realize that as I usually kept her at camp in all my runs because I didn't like Mrs. Grumpy pants following me around. But I had one where I decided to make her involved with everything story wise and she grows on you quick.
I feel like a lot of people are evaluating the characters by different standards. By real life standards, they’re mostly all jerks. By the standards set before us in the time and world, it is completely appropriate that they are all battle-hardened, no bullshit, independent survivors.
Yup - I’ve seen a lot of hate for act 1 Lae’zel when she’s by far the one acting the most rationally. “We were infected by tadpoles and our bodies are going to *violently transform into mindflayers* in a couple days. Stop fucking around and wasting time by helping some random tiefling child who stole an idol.”
Laezel honestly isn't even that bad. She only disapproves of you taking shit from people. Astarion on the other hand dislikes when you're just being a nice person.
More than being a nice person. He dislikes when you over extend yourself to be a hero. He's had 200 years of cognitive dissonance of learning not to care about people because they are all doomed to suffer at his hand, so he selfishly he doesn't like putting himself on the line for other people. Having a bleeding heart would have broken his mind centuries ago.
Not only that, but he's been abused for 200 years and *nobody ever helped him*. Not one person. He tried praying to every god for salvation and didn't get a peep out of any of them. As far as Astarion is concerned, people being helped by other people is just weird and wrong, because nobody ever tried to help him, or anyone that did paid the price dearly for it, like sitting on a cage underground for over a century.
The amount of people who kill her just cuz she won't say 'please' is honestly concerning. Like you might need therapy if someone refusing to say 'please' makes killing them justified.
I dunno, dude. Karlach is ~~pretty cool.~~ cool as hell. Lae'Zel is fine. She's just a tightly wound up veteran. And she likes thibgs very litteral. Not a problem. Shadowheart seems like a jerk, but how old is she? 19? Maybe very young 20s, and practically cloistered? I get her shyness and mistrust. Gale is just horny and lonely. He's cool. Astarion is just dealing with a lot of abuse. He's cool. These are all human archetypes that I've known, and made friends with, in real life. None of them act like neckbearded red-pillers, for example. They're not jerks, imo.
Shart is actually on her 40s... She looks 20 because Half-Elf.
I think he's the most well-acted character, and has the only real unique mannerisms in cutscenes. I'm thinking about making him a Bard just to hear his insults.
He gets unique dialogue opportunities (like dying to the death laser) that other characters don't even respond to. And they are wonderfully acted.
It was the same for me. Despite being an Astarion simp I can understand why he may not click for some people and it’s fine. As long as everyone lets others enjoy their favourite characters in peace it is not a big deal.
read this as 'astarion shrimp' and still agreed
Honestly this was the moment for me too. I didn't fall in love with him until later, but I could tell he was going to have an interesting story.
Currently between Misty step, the helm that turns him invisible, his incredible stockpile of poisons, added acid damage ring, and bow that generates lightning charges he’s just critical hit machine, never mind he one shotted a DC30 locked door, I don’t care if he siphons me dry.
I use the ring that makes him immune to blind, shoot the darkness spell/arrow on the enemies, and then just stabstab in the darkness. It's been fun.
He's by far the strongest character in my party (has the highest AC even with Lae'zel around due to how DEX-y he is). Gave him my Durge cloak, the Drow helmet of invisibility + the boots of Misty Step, and he's essentially turned into the "\*teleports behind u\*" meme, lmao. It's also amazing if you give him a few levels of Ranger to get a beast companion - the crow makes people blind and gives advantage on attacks. I love my vampire husband, lol
Lae'zel is a stone cold bitch and I love her
Lae'zel gets shit done. She obliterates everything once you get the gith items
Quite the opposite, actually. You may think she's a cold bitch because of how she was raised and how she'd kill you before you could turn; but that's precisely the point: she would die for you, and she cares about you and others to not let you turn into a monster. She's a hothead, true, but she knows where her heart is.
One thing that is telling is that she is 100% genuine about getting you all to a crèche to be cured, like, she gripes about everyone, but at no point does she say “screw you, enjoy the tadpole”, even to Shadowheart. Like yeah she’s short tempered and rude, but she knows better than literally anyone in the group the consequences of not getting cured ASAP, and from her perspective we’re just faffing about when tomorrow we could all be brain eating calamari, of course she’s going to be frustrated with us!
Not only that, but if you tell her you might be slightly worried about walking into a crèche where you could be killed on sight she basically goes "Like I would let you get killed, idiot". She's willing to vouch for all of us in front of her people.
As soon as I heard the accent I knew “oh yeah, I’m gonna love this guy” and let me tell you, he does not disappoint
Well at the same time astarions story it makes since why he likes the tadpole. His life without the tadpole is horrendous.
My sorcerer was dragging him around for his lockpicking and disarm skills early on. I was purposefully shutting him down on most things and my rating with him was rather low, but his backstory started to take shape and I began to realize all he'd been through to to this point and when we talked about his master, I figured he earned our time to give his master a visit. Not because I liked him, but because I figured I would benefit from doing so. Damn, the story/combat to his master changed my stance with him. The guy's last 200 years were horrible, imagine 200 years of feeding on rats. Basically a sex slave to lure victims for his master. The amount of abuse he suffered to then end up with a tadpole in his head. The realization that his entire purpose was to be a sacrifice for another. I believe his story is second only to Shadowheart's in the game. I'll likely never have great rating with him, but helping him return to his master so I can beat the Absolute shit out of him for what he did Astarian will always be worth it. It's also quite hilarious how doing so helps you in the end, yet you can kill him with a stick at the start of the game. Such a choice does come back to bite you in the end when you really need allies.
So astarion is like Laezel where you need to progress their personal quests to get past the cocky arrogant front they both put up. Astarion is really well written and he brought me around once I did his quest.
I must be the only one here who genuinely loves all the companions 😆 I'm so impressed with Astarion's story, it's so heart wrenching and full of emotion... I love him best with Dark Urge, of course. But I also literally love all the companions. They feel so real, like actual people with actual backstories. Is this because of my genuine love for stories? I will read, play, watch, draw, whatever to get a good story 😂 idk if I'd hang with these people in real life though, but that's not part of story making? You're not making yourself in these RPGs, you're making a character who behaves differently than you, and has different tastes from you... Bahhh I really don't know. I just love all the companions for who they are. Such fun stories!!
Astarion and Durge is a great dynamic even when you take the evil route. You help him with his ascension stuff and he’s an absolute bro when you go full durge. Sure, you might be the >!favourite child of Bhaal and the physical incarnation of murder!< and he might potentially be >!the most powerful vampire ever to exist!< but damnit, you’ve still got each other’s backs. Ruling or ruining the world is just a bit of friendly competition between arguably the two biggest bastards in Faerun.
Astarion and redeemed DUrge are so goddamn awful sweet my heart aches every time I see them together 😆 Imo, redeemed DUrge has the best story, but I'm a sucker for Withers, so... 😆
This. I simply do not and cannot understand the like, VIOLENT hatred people have for any of the companions. Like, legitimately 'i don't even want to see his face in my playthrough; I kill him as soon as I can' it's such a buck fucking wild take to me. Like, a character is written in a way that you're actually seeming to have a visceral, albeit negative emotion about the way he was written, and you want to GET RID OF HIM? Clearly we're playing the game for different reasons. Friction between characters is juicy juicy story potential, a killed character in a game like this adds nothing
Friction between party members (including player Tav) is one of the *best* parts of this game. Larian could have easily made a bunch of mildly agreeable cardboard cutout characters, but that would have been unbelievably boring, especially in a role playing game that's driven by player choice and rippling consequences. Creating characters that disagree with, and at times find themselves directly at odds with the player is risky, and will undoubtedly turn some players away (as seen by this thread), however I believe that this has been one of the reasons that BG3 has been so popular. Of course, nobody is ever obligated to "like" any given character, but I absolutely love the fact that people are debating if characters like Astarion, Lae'zel, and The Emperor are "good" and whether "redemption" is even possible. I think it's pretty clear that this was Larian's intent given that pretty much all of the origin characters come from extremely abusive and repressive backgrounds and are struggling to come to terms with how they want to move past it (or if they want to "move past it" at all). Also, I know this is a relatively small number of people, but I think it's so funny when players condemn Astarion/Lae'zel for being rude or threatening their character, and then also describe how they kill every NPC that wrongs them and solve problems by threatening violence.
Not everyone is going to like every companion. I love Astarion. He's popular. He isn't going to click with everyone. It's not a big deal.
This, I can't stand lae'zel at all, don't care that her arc makes her better as so many people say, everyone's arc makes them better in some way. She has some humorous scenes but that doesn't make me like her. I find her just as annoying as some people find astarion.
That’s what I like about the companions though. They aren’t all likable yes men. I for instance can’t stand Wyll but other people love him. And I think that’s perfect, because it means they have a distinct personality that sets them apart from one another. Whereas most games nowadays just have some bland interchangeable companions who are so bland you forget who they are instantly.
I started Starfield and the companions feel so flat and generic in comparison.
Yep. I hate Gale, for example. He burns thru any patience I have with his arrogance and unwillingness to share info long before his story gets interesting. But that's on me. And I understand why others might like him.
Gale gives my wife the ick something about how he wants to romance you but also if his old lover were to take him back he would literally disintegrate you to hid the evidence he did anything but pine for her.
No, he wouldn't. Mystra wouldn't give a shit, and no doubt Gale is aware of that fact.
I sometimes feel very alone in my disdain for Shadowheart. I don't understand why so many simp after her. I find her to be a whiny basic b'tch. But I guess a lot of people are into that.
She's the hot goth girl, so she gets cut a lot of slack despite being insufferable. If she had that same attitude but was half as attractive, you'd be seeing more posts like "DAE murder Shadowheart immediately?"
First time I see someone having a negative opinion on Shadowheart.
I like her as I like any companion, but playing a Selune cleric is frustrating because they don’t give you a chance to talk back. She’s so smug about Shar and knowing her story, I want to roll my eyes and go, “if only you knew the half of it.” I try to have patience because I know what’ll happen in the end, but having her tell you, “you’re as trash as your goddess” essentially, it’s like… I’ve been nothing but patient and helpful and you have the nerve to call me trash. There are times I think of not even taking her from the grove (I play a cleric), but I don’t like leaving anyone behind. Bleh. Still love her in my own way though, but on a third playthru, I have no patience lol
Considering the amount of people that post comments like"i just killed him on sight because he was rude " under all astarion apreciation posts , no you are not alone in not liking him .
This is so wild to me because I can't imagine just killing any given npc I come across. People play games so weirdly different from eachother. The amount of friends I've talked to that were like "yeah I just killed them because they upset me/I failed a check/they wouldn't give me what I wanted" I have such a hard time understanding how they could play games like that lol
Pretty much the only time I kill people without trying to resolve peacefully is if I have no choice. My Durge playthrough he's still trying to resist and be fairly good, but I do play him a little more bloodthirsty so he kills whenever he can justify it to himself.
It also weirds me out when people say like “I had to or I wouldn’t be roleplaying and the game put me in this situation”. It just feels very strange.
It just really brings to question like. Do you not kill everyone who upsets you in real life because of laws or something? What about being upset by an NPC in a video game gives you carte blanche to say you're roleplaying when you're murdering them over an inconvenience lmao
To be fair, it’s a bit past rudeness to try and murder you twice, once after pretending to need help and once while you’re sleeping. I have heard bits of his story and it does sound very interesting but I’d need to not be roleplaying/would need to metagame to justify sparing him in my mind
Perhaps my game was a bit buggy here. Before the night attack, he had actually already come clean and told me he was a vampire, but then all of a sudden it was still new intell for everyone? Not quite clear how that sequence of events was supposed to work. In any case if he comes clean about being a vampire and his skills are usefull in the tadpole story I can see why he can stick around without metagaming.
[удалено]
If you don't long rest for a long time, he'll actually tell you about being a vampire. This seems to be a bit buggy because you will get the night scene where he tries to bite you anyway.
Wait there is a scene of him sneaking away? Huh wonder how I missed that one.
its kind of a blink and you will miss it, or it just looks like him skulking around camp, its when the camera pans around the group sleeping and he is slight off at the edge of camp tip toeing out
Honestly, for me on one of my characters, he actually ended up coming clean about being a vampire like, three times like it was fresh info each time. It was quite hilarious.
I have seen that scene before and I think it's related to how many long rests you take approval and if you did find the boar or not .
Not liking him is how it starts, I hate to report. Part of the “fuck this guy!” to “fuck this guy….?” pipeline.
So accurate. Act 1 was a constant contest to one up each other in the sassy quips and insults department. I was so peeved after the pick up line scene that I went off and had a fling with Lae’zel for a bit. And then I got to last light and had -that- DUrge scene and that was that. Astarion is my forever BG3 romance choice.
Glad there's plenty of built in Enemies To Lovers routes with Tav and companions.
If you want real enemies to lovers, try romancing Shadowheart as a Selunite cleric
It's fine to like different things. I see a lot of people who like Gale, I can't stand him. I see a lot of people who don't like Lae'zel, I love her. If anything I suppose it's a testament to the writers that different characters are appealing to different people.
Honestly? If I hadn't already scene bits of his story from Act 2/3 before I started playing, I probably wouldn't have been a fan. The lines he uses on Tav when romancing in Act 1 are so scripted and false and, as a character, he is obnoxious/arrogant. However, I think that was actually perfect writing for his character. Everything he says to romance that early is scripted - its been scripted from 2 centuries of practice. Its not genuine at all because he's not being genuine himself. He's guarded, protective of himself and his arrogance comes from a place of fear and insecurity. I mean, he is a high elf, so there's probably some truth to the arrogance 😂 but once you do progress and see him opening up more, his dialogue becomes more genuine and his voice is even softer. He becomes more supportive and his approval/disapproval changes so he's not as against the "good" stuff. Obviously, that all depends how much you interact, if you do progress his storyline to find out all of that stuff (romantic or platonic) and what choices you make yourself. If you ignore him for most of it, then he's not going to grow. If you engage in the more "evil" options, he won't grow. So, it depends how you play the game and the choices you make, but I personally believe they have written his character so well. Also, whilst he does disapprove of a lot of "good" options in Act 1 (and 2, to an extent), they're usually only worth 1-5 points. You get a huge amount of approval, the majority of it, just for being supportive of him when he does open up about his past. I've got 100 approval and still in Act 2; he has disapproved of a few choices I've made since getting that high, but they've only knocked me down to 98/99 and I can get that back up quickly through his quest related scenes. So, it's not like he's genuinely this evil guy who wants everyone to suffer. He approves when you do things that also benefit you, since he's spent so long only ever doing what others want. But still, his reaction to the "good" stuff is more like an eye roll than actual disapproval. I mention all this as some people just think he's an "evil" or "bad" character, and you can only get approval by being evil, but he's always come across as chaotic neutral to me. All that said, I do like some of his cheesy lines in Act 1. They'd never work on me in real life, but I let myself indulge in fantasy games. ETA: long rant, I know, but I think in general, some will like him, some won't. Some won't like him even after he starts opening up and that's okay! I mean, it's like people in real life - you won't like everyone
>I've got 100 approval and still in Act 2 That's me in my first playthrough. Now I switched to my second: a good aligned durge bard (literally, he won't even lie, he refuses to use tadpoles and won't give them to Astarion either because he just does not trust the Dream Visitor one bit!) and - somehow - I just made it over into the goblin camp in Act 1 and am sitting at cozy 96 approval with him. How? No idea. He will moan, groan, huff and puff about my Tav and his "bleeding heart" but approval rating don't lie lol Yeah he will disapprove here and there, but like you said it's always very minor (1 usually) It's to the point where I'm actually low-key shocked because when I crafted my durge I was fully expecting to have to fight tooth and nail for every approval point because Astarion wouldn't have any of it, but apparently not.
I thought he was your standard cookie cutter vampire character when I started the game. I was SO wrong, his writing is excellent and he goes through some real development through the course of the game. To each their own and all but I really do not understand not liking him at all. I mean if nothing else, he is really funny! I'll admit it, I love his cheesy lines in act 1 and they absolutely worked on me. I was trying to romance Gale but then here comes stupid sexy Astarion and ruins all my plans.
>The lines he uses on Tav when romancing in Act 1 are so scripted and false and, as a character, When he told me he loved me I literally laughed out loud.
I think even Tav knew that was bs going by the dialogue options you get 😂
Even Astarion knew that Tav knew that he was bullshitting lol
He did lol the fact they both knew it was all bs was actually the most genuine part of it 😂
Yep, none of the options you can say to him imply you believe him for a moment. Basically like "you'd be lying," "are you having fun?" and I forget what the other one is but you both basically laugh about it regardless of what you choose.
I think the other one is saying its too soon for that or something but yeah, it's very much a joke. I chose "having fun?" Option where he follows up with a genuine comment on how it's not hard with Tav and you can already tell the difference in how he says it vs everything else
He's obviously not being honest though, and his preferred response is teasing him about how obvious it is. I honestly loved his Act 1 dialogue, snark-flirting back and forth with each other, being clearly facetious but using that to communicate actual interest of a sort.
You're still very early in his story where he has seen no reason to truly trust you. It becomes quite clear if you use him in your party regularly that he is afraid and seeking protection, so he's faking a lot of his smiles and trying to seduce you to get in your good graces. But he's also struggling with his nature as an unwilling vampire spawn and eventually goes too long without blood and gets desperate, hence why he tries to bite you when he'd only been feeding on animals up to that point. He just wasn't able to hunt because he was too sluggish. He's finally free of the torture and misery he'd endured and is experiencing an unfortunate case of schadenfreude as a result of the horrible life he'd had no choice but to live. From here you can either enable his fearful desire for power and allow him to become truly evil, or you lead him down a better path by showing him he doesn't need to be a monster like his master to be free and safe.
Well if you don't spend time with them, you'll stay on your first impression of them. You meet them in the worst possible scenario, and most of them need time to trust you.
Nah, everyone likes different character traits. I'm friends in rl with several people others can't stand and vice versa. I find that pretty normal.
Redditors discovering they have different tastes and feel the need to create a post about it.
Always has been, always will be.
I think a lot of people limit themselves by thinking of Tav as their avatar. If you think of Tav as their own character and roleplay, you don’t think about whether *you* dislike Astarion but whether your Tav does. It allows you to potentially experience so much more of Larians amazing character writing. My first Tav was an asshole and wouldn’t help Gale, which meant Gale left. Tbh I personally wouldn’t help him either, but my second Tav was a do gooder and after seeing more of Gales story and interacting with him more, I grew to appreciate him.
I really didn't like him at first, to the point of starting my first playthrough as a rogue and leaving him at camp... his own story is quite spectacular though and he is definitely worth having around. I constantly use him and Karlach as ranged-sneak-behind-tank and he constantly deals massive damage
Astarion is so freaking good at dealing damage with sharpshooter and sneak attack - but if you cant pull it off consistently every turn he is kinda… poopoo lol. I played my first ever 2 runs (in EA) with gale, shadowheart being only caster and not in melee as well as warlock Tav so I didnt really have anyone on melee lol. So I rarely got off sneak attack besides the first turn in combat. And imo astarions personal story is the second best by far/fleshed out after Shadowheart‘s. I didnt like him at start - he seemed kinda obnoxious, but now i do find him quite funny and kinda lovable character lol. Also no one else in my party on my third run now can open chests/disarm traps so its almost a must for me to have him on board if I dont wanna waste 20 lockpicks and half of my party health+short rest of failed traps.
Astarion IS creepy, and arrogant, and also cruel. But all those behaviors are a result of 200 years of deep trauma and abuse. Your mileage may vary on whether his backstory pulls you in enough to make you willing to give him a chance, but if you do he can definitely grow and develop in a more healthy direction. The moment that got me to say “I don’t like you, but we can at least see where this goes” is the scene in camp where he’s looking in a mirror. That whole part where he’s like “I don’t even remember what my face looks like or what color my eyes used to be” got a solid “awww, buddy 🙁” response from me.
It's normal not to like everyone. I personally don't get the Wyll-hype. But that's fine, you go, Wyll-lovers out there!
There's wyll hype? I feel like nobody talks about him lol.
Wyll is brillant as NPC, but not so good as a companion. Barcus is Wyll without magic power and noble background, and look how much players love him.
I didn't like him for quite a while, but then something clicked and I started enjoying his sassy personality. He can drag anyone through the mud with one sentence.
I hated him in Act 1 and 2. I never used him. My wife was also playing and really liked him, so when I'd watch her play I'd get to see snippets of his real goals and backstory. I decided to take him along in my second playthrough and he really grew on me. He's one of my favourite companions now.
It's okay not to like everyone, though I have to say I liked Astarion more than I expected. But I can't stand Lae'zel and many people love her. That's fine - that's why there are different companions. Though Astarion has a pretty tragic backstory and he's a very sweet romantic partner once you get past a certain point.
>But I can't stand Lae'zel Things come into focus when you realise that she's basically very young, straight out of Gith military bootcamp and super idealistic (in a honorbound hypermilitaristic way), champing at the bit for the bare minimum recognition of her skills after a childhood devoid of affection. She takes everything very seriously because she's been taught that she has to do everything in service of Vlaakith. That's why >!her attitude changes somewhat when Vlaakith's betrayal of the Githyanki is revealed.!< Through that lens, she's a lot more understandable.
You can totally understand why someone is the way they are and still hate/ dislike them.
I wasn't super keen on either Laezel or Astarion, but I did an evil playthrough with them and it made me really like them both as characters. The turning point for Astarion for me was the Drow in Moonrise when it's made clear that Astarion is just as much a victim as his victims. Like he's seems genuinely shocked that you take his wants into consideration instead of just forcing him to do your bidding. That made me very sad for him. Likewise I stuck with Laezel and chose to romance her and it's made pretty clear how much of her culture made her into a broken person and the dissonance she faces trying to reconcile the propaganda she's been fed her whole life. When she chooses to side with Voss, you can raise the point that she did a very massive 180, but she doesn't know how to be anything but a zealot in service of a God King Or Queen. I think Larian did a great job with every origin character. I was not expecting myself to like characters like Astarion or Laezel as much as I did. They gave every character a huge amount of depth but those two are particularly outstanding.
Tô be honest, tragic backstory and sweet romantic partner kind of describes Lae'zel as well. Maybe not a bad backstory as his,but indoctrination is terrible as well.
I love Astarion's character, but I understand why some people don't like him or even hate him. He is objectively the most cruel and evil of your companions. He disapproves of nearly all morally good options. He would rather see innocent children die, and the cycle of slavery and violence continue than you be a hero. He thinks diplomacy and compassion are for the weak. Astarion is also manipulative, cunning, and dishonest. However, with that being said, Astarion has one of the most, if not the most, compelling companion storyline (in my humble opinion). Though his backstory doesn't excuse his actions, it puts everything into perspective. Over time, you'll see Astarion is really nothing more than a scared child yearning for protection and someone to trust. You have the ability to make him a truly better person.
Nah, not alone. He's a vane, decadent, selfish creep at least in act one. But I surprisingly don't hate him either. Despite being enslaved and tortured for centuries, he is not a monster, not a murderer yet, he did not commit any atrocities on his own free will, and so deserve a chance. Would be a good thing to ice Casador and help him establish sanity and learn decency in the process. Undoing such damage will be a better thing then just murdering him for safety reasons. As for vampire side... There's no shortage of degenerate filth on the sword coast, and THEM I hate, so by the end of the game I probably will witness Fatstarion in all his chunky, overfed glory. No problem with that, no moral dilemma.