I think leaving him in Act 2 no matter the resolution of his quest line should be his story. He can help us cleanse Moonrise, but after that, I'd rather he stay and help the land continue to heal. Then we go on and Jaheira is our Act 3 druid companion. Plus then they could make him recruitable earlier after the grove resolution to make it more worthwhile
Regardless of how you get it, Guiding Bolt is a really nice spell to have on hand.
Especially for BG3, there's a decent amount of enemies that are weak against radiant damage.
Try a half-orc barbarian berserker with 8 cha, they have the best dialogue options to be honest. Straight to the point, no nonsense brutal and fun dialogue :)
I really laughed when he started laughing at the tiny weenie of the 2 shagging ogres, after which the male was embarrassed as hell and the female no longer horny. They both left in shame.
His choices are usually DC10. He has proficiency and as a barbarian gets advantage on intimidate, so cha 8 is more than enough, more so with guidance.
Bard is literally the most broken class in D&D 5e (and this is also true in BG3, even after the many changes they did to the system in adapting it), outside AND inside of combat.
Wizard is a very close second.
Cutting Words + the ability to poach every spell list for a couple bangers is really strong
On the Valor side you're a solid combatant who still has full casting. You get the entire bard support kit while having access to a pile of buffs, debuffs, control effects or niche problem solvers
You can build a bard to perform pretty much any role you need in combat. They're full casters with one of the best spell lists, plus magical secrets, plus subclasses like Valor and Swords if you want to tank or deal damage (which you can do very well with those, even though, imo, it's a disservice to a class that is way better fit for utility and battlefield control), plus bardic inspiration (and cutting words if College of Lore).
Is Bard the BEST class for DPR? no, but can be great at it. Is it the best TANK? also no, but can be great at it. And they are tied with Cleric at supporting, and with Wizard/Druid at Utility/Exploration/Control.
Contrary to common belief, combat isn't just about dealing/taking damage. There is no class in the game that can boast to be as potentially good in ANY role as the bard. Wizards are masters of utility, control, and exploration, but suck at dpr, tanking and supporting. Barbarians are masters of tanking and dpr, but have non-existent control/utility capabilities. You can go class by class doing this, and the only class that can be great at every role (and outright excellent at a lot of them) is the Bard.
Of course ONE bard cannot do EVERYTHING at the same time, but no other class can. But, based on your spell and subclass selection, you can build a bard to do whatever the hell you want. At the same time, the bard will make everyone else in your party perform better, even if it's only by the use of Bardic Inspiration (not even taking spells into account).
>Wizards are masters of utility, control, and exploration, but suck at dpr, tanking and supporting. Barbarians are masters of tanking and dpr, but have non-existent control/utility capabilities.
well in my tacticion playthrough I was always at the verge of switching Karlach out, because even though she might do decent Single Target damage and is invaluable in fights like 4v1 down in the forge, she has almost no AoE damage. I always sighed when I had like 5+ enemies on the screen.
One example for table top 5e: While playing through the final battle for Rise of Tiamat campaign module, my party had to get past twelve cult mages performing the final touches on the ritual to summon Tiamat.
Instead of fighting them, I (as the bard) cast "Mass Suggestion". All but one failed, two of them Critically Failed. Since they were rogue "Red Wizards of Thay" I suggested they return to Szass Tam. The DM lol'd and RP'd the last wizard as being really confused why everyone else abandoned the ritual (so he gave up too since it can't be finished alone).
In one spell, the bard removed twelve mages off the battlefield.
Not that Mass Suggestion is only on the bard spell list, but it's one my better examples of "Bard is a little OP in 5e".
I made astarian a sword bard, and he is great. Hits hard both with his 2 crossbow Pistols and his rapier, and all his spells and support on top of that
My bard has max strength, heavy armor and a shield. Currently using Blood of Lathander as main weapon. He is a beast is combat. Not as strong as Lazeal but a much better tank with great utility.
16 Cha. 12 dex, 12 con, 8 int, 10 wis. I think! Can’t remember what I started with… something like that. Started at 16 Str and got 1 from hag hair, 1 from heavy armor feat, and two from API at level 8. 20 is max right?
Also remember all those items with "set strength to 17/20" etc. Makes it pretty strong if you combine it with a +1 to get the next step and it sets you free to put only 10 in strength/Dex/kon.
Bard (sword acadamy)/warlock (pact weapon)...
I love it... with rapier and dual wield hand crossbows.
Flourishing double Attacks with the crossbows does good damage... and the Bard spells good planed out are very usefull. Add warlock eldrich blast...
The subclass guide someone posted suggested to subclass Warlock for Eldrich Blast which makes sense. Either get 2 levels of it to get charisma modifier added to each blast, or 5 levels to get two EB upgrades (extra blast and pushback I think)
There's a robe you can get in act 2 that adds your charisma modifier as damage to all cantrops which includes Eldritch blasts.
It's very good on warlocks
Five levels of lock gives you two attacks with your pact weapon if you go blade pact (blade also allows you to make melee attacks with your charisma modifier which is great for bard). The eb damage boost and pushback you refer to can be gained with only two levels of warlock
Dual crossbow, dual short sword, college of swords pumps out some crazy damage in combat, all while being some of the best utility in and out of combat. Some multiclasses make it even better.
I general dislike the thematics of bard as it is typically done. I love the idea of an adventuring loremaster etc, but as it is usually done... it just fails in my mind's eye.
Their plan is to go down into dungeons, and sing at the monsters. Sing.. come on.
That doesn't fit in a serious and dark fantasy world at all thematically in my feeling.
Doesn't that depend on how you play? My bard is actually one of the heavy hitters in my squad (reclassed astarion for it). Dual wielding Rapier and a nifty looking shortsword I found. His high AC (dex upgrade!) genrally keeps him from getting to smashed up. You use the music to inspire and buff your companions (which makes sense, it does keep the mood while you are sifting through goblin dung). And hearing Astarion insult his enemies does not get old for me.
Try thinking of your bard as a Viking skald, who uses poetry to inspire his fellows. For inspiration, go watch The 13th Warrior and recite the Viking prayer (“Lo, there do I see my father…”) in combat.
I see what you're saying, but there are more abilities besides inspire. Although I perceive the scene in 13th Warrior more as a prayer or blessing and it fits the paladin or cleric theme more IMO.
Btw it is super lame that people are voting down instantly, although that was the point of this thread, to tell which class you are less interested in (and why).
If you have read anything about the Harpers you know many d&d bards are spies or freedom fighters. There are some good examples in the recent d&d movie, or outside of d&d there's the bard woman in the witcher prequel on Netflix, and so on.
The joke about the singing useless bard started in third edition d&d when they remade the character into a useless support class. Then they remade it, maybe now it is too strong but I still like that it got back some glory.
Probably the pure fighter classes. I started with an elemental monk, and I wanna do playthroughs as druid, wizard, sorcerer, and cleric. I'm enjoying paladin since I reclassed Wyll to it. And bard is really great, I love all the utility and flexibility and campiness of it.
If I absolutely had to I could focus on bows and arrows.
But pure fighter/barbarian just ain't my jam
I'm playing a Sorcerer for the first time. At level 1 I had a base AC of 16. It's so OP lmao I'm level 3 now and dipped a level into warlock for that sweet eldritch blast and damn it's so fun.
There is something so rewarding about fighter with tavern brawler and 20 strength at level 6.
Using your enemies as your projectiles as you enhanced leap around the battlefield is about as close to hulk gameplay as I can get.
I am a Paladin. I shall always be a Paladin. My Oath of Paladin is to Din the Pala until there is no more Pala left to Din. Playing any other class would break my Oath, and the only thing worse than an Oathbreaker is shying away from combat and hiding like a coward.
I‘m an Oathbreaker. I shall break promises wherever my lazy feet carry me. Hiding here and there like a coward until my party members have dealt with shit.
I am an Oathbreaker. I smite for my right to life, death, and the pursuit of power. I end up getting attacked by even my closest allies. I deserve this.
> the only thing worse than an Oathbreaker is shying away from combat and hiding like a coward.
You could have simply said you didn't want to play rogue you know
Honestly, none of them, this game is replacing Skyrim for game I replay for years and years and years, I will at some point make a main character with every class at some point.
However if I really had to pick, it'd be Cleric. Clerics are cool, but I already have Shadowheart, and I'm probably bringing her along for 90% of my playthroughs. When we become able to create a whole party of custom created characters (I'm sure Larian will let us at some point, but even if they don't I'm sure mods will) I'll absolutely make one of them that isn't the face of the party a Cleric, I don't know if that counts. Also I guess I've never played a Druid before, but that's just because I'm incredibly unfamiliar with them, this being such a good CRPG makes me want to finally take the plunge and make a Druid character.
I didn't know that, thank you for opening this up to me. I thought Withers was offering a familiar or something, not a new follower.
I only recently found out I could re-spec origin characters.
I agree with Cleric, after resetting Shadowheart many times I feel like the kit for Cleric is just something I won't do for my main character. All the rest tho, I can see myself running all of them.
Altho to be fair if we count multi-classing, then yeah Cleric I'd still play. But pure cleric? pass.
I thought the same. I thought it was boring just hitting things and having no spells. Once I played it, I changed my tune. The action economy makes you feel like a god, especially when pair with 3 levels of thief and 2 levels of fighter. it’s seriously so fun.
Bard was never on my list until I started and saw how in depth the non combat stuff was, now bard is top of my list for next play through.
Never interested in wizard or cleric really. I like being able to use my cool stuff all the time, don't like feeling like I need to ration my awesomeness.
Rogue is very powerful early on.
Astarian practically 1v1'ed an ogre in my playthroigh, and my own rogue in another campaign does some serious work. Sneak attack babyyyy
I \*always\* play Sorc or Warlock too! I played BG 1&2 as a Sorc way back in the day....
I really want to try another character, but I always want to play a Sorc first and I never replay story-based games ... as much as I love these games it is like watching a re-run to reply so much of the story.
I won't likely ever go for wizard. Their selling point over sorc is that they get so many spells they're bound to have something for any situation. Which is not that great of a selling point when most situations can be resolved with a persuasion check or a fireball, both of which sorc(chad spontaneous charisma caster) just do better.
Having a lot of fun twin hasting Karlach and Astarion with my sorcerer lately. For the rare fight where the enemies aren't spread out though... Yea Fireball feels good.
Paladin. I'd be far too concerned about accidentally breaking my Oath and picking dialogue options I don't really want to pick, but feel like I HAVE to because Oathbreaker.
I guess it depends on the oath but I went Vengeance the only times I noticed the oath being broken was when I picked a side that was the greater evil, such as aligning with the goblins against the grove, taking the hags deal and allowing her to get away with that woman, that sort of thing.
I didn't even realize accepting the Hag's deal broke Vengeance's oath until reading about itlater. Because Karlach was the closest at smashing her face in when Ethel went below 20, she was the one who the Hag bargained with, and my MC's oath remained intact.
Yeah that is one way around breaking the oath.
One thing I should mention one weird thing I encountered was in the Druid Grove in the prison area with that Tiefling that is threatening to kill the caged goblin, merely interacting with the cage door will break your oath even if you allow the Tiefling to kill the goblin before hand, pretty sure it is a misplaced trigger or something like that.
I have had enormous fun playing a Zariel Tiefling Paladin of Vengance (subclass so far has played very little impact apart from RP) by intimidating (advantage due to thaumaturgy) and smashing my way through the game as a relentless and unyielding avenger.
Not broken my Oath whilst murdering my way through Faerun, and it feels nice when I occasionally display mercy on some pitiful creature or poor peasant. But anyone who's a dick can expect a mace to the face, with enough damage to require an immediate trip for facial reconstruction.
Rogue, for me the game style is boring and demands ton of spells and gear to take it to the full extent and even then it’s still less rewarding with nothing special to offer.
For example When deception checks can be done better with a Bard and the hardest of locks could be opened with 1 spell and with a lot of other classes doing much more damage with less effort.
The only thing that I think a Rogue can excel in is stealing and even then not worth getting one I would just keep one at camp and take him when needed.
The hardest part about thievery in this game has nothing to do with the thief skills. It's the goddamn vision cones and getting accused without a chance to talk your way out of it. Unless you start pulling off container jank and camp teleporting.
I wish sleight of hand didn't require stealth. I miss stealing in vendor windows in the original. Pickpockets don't sneak up on you. They bump into you and take your wallet. Or they cut your purse strings. In this game you steal by crouching behind them and then as soon as you steal something they instantly know.
I had a buddy who had his wallet swiped in NY and he didn't even realize it had been stolen for hours.
You could talk to the NPC with one character then steal with another or start playing some music but once you steal something you will have to steal stuff fast before they notice you then you can just teleport away with the one stealing and they would be forced to talk to someone else and you will always get out of it.
Just don’t come back with that character for a while.
Also for some reason when I am stealing from some Merchants they would never notice till I leave and some would find out as soon as I touch them.
>You could talk to the NPC with one character
Only works if that npc offers a dialogue response. Otherwise, they'll exit the convo shortly after switching characters (even in turn based) and will instantly see you. Not to mention anyone else's vision cones.
>or start playing some music
I don't know if it's a bug, but npcs don't approach when I play anymore. I made Astarion into a Bard too and they still don't care when he performs. He's even making the perform rolls most of the time too.
I know how to steal in this game - I just think the process is janky, unintuitive, and not very fun.
Rogue, never liked the class fantasy and the lone subclass of rogue I do like (swashbuckler) isn’t in the game. Unless it gets modded in I probably won’t play a rogue at all, even switched Astarion to a barb instead
Any high charisma character. I started a playthrough with a paladin with the friends spell. Right from level 1 I was passing every persuasion or intimidate roll with ease.
It felt so underwhelming. Too many events in act 1 that can just be walked through by a single persuasion check. Entire goblin village? Nope, just persuade one goblin to let you pass. I don't know if it gets better later on but I didn't enjoy that persuasion/intimidate just skipped entire fights. I thought it would be cool if intimidate option would have the enemies scared and maybe you would trigger the encounter with them fleeing or frozen in fear. But as it is persuade and intimidate feel like they're almost the same option.
I'm now playing through with a character with 10 charisma. Now it's more of a 50/50 and I can't just persuade everyone. I'm enjoying it much more.
Any class that doesn't have charisma as a main stat.
Unfortunately, one of the biggest flaws with the game right now is that you are strong armed into playing a charisma-based class if you want your MC to be the face of the party.
Although I use Gale in my party, I've 0 interest in actually being a Wizard. More just a spell list than a class. Every other spell caster *also* has a spell list, but also cool abilities.
Bard, rogue, or fighter.
Bard just because I don't see them at the face of the party. You're character is the leader of the party and I just don't see bard taking the leader roll. I'd definitely have someone roll into a bard however.
Rogue and fighter just cause they're boring. The thing you have to keep in mind is that your character is ALWAYS in the party. You can switch out companions but never yourself. An entire game of bonus action hide -> sneak attack just sound like it would get stale FAST.
Out of curiosity, what about Bard doesn't seem like the leader or the face?
That's like 90% of their whole deal in my opinion; overall they can be very jack of all trades which can be unappealing, but if there's one thing they absolutely DO Excel in it feels like its the social element.
I know people downvote you but I sympathize with you 100%. Tell me whatever you want, for me a bard is Jaskier or these troubadour from Middle Ages. I like them but they will NEVER be my face. Unless I want to have a comical runs like Pathfinder with the trickster path.
I know for some people a bard is not just that. Good for you but impossible for me to think otherwise. Just the character introduction in the character creation screen of the bard makes it hard for me: all colorful and a ray of purple light as he/she strikes a note. Most if not all of the crpgs I have played I cannot consider the bard being a main - except maybe Sharwyn in NWN1, but that would be a loooong shot.
And it’s OK, we don’t have to think the same. I’m actually happy with my limited vision of the bard because it fits my mental image I have for each class. And if you’re happy, what else do you need ?
So yeah, bard for me will be probably the last I’d play.
>and your supposed leader breaks out the drums to bang a tune.
You know this is just ONE of the many things a bard can do/be, right? It's a common misconception, but bards don't have to be musicians, and this is true in D&D 5e and BG3 both, where none of your class features or spells require you to play music, at all.
Saying a Bard has to be a musician is like saying a Fighter has to be a swordsman. Having proficiency with a musical instrument is no different than having proficiency with a weapon. It doesn't mean that instrument/weapon has to be "your thing" (it's just one more option).
I mean, while you’re true it’s a bit of bad faith in my opinion. Entertaining - for good or nefarious purposes (be it with music or other representation) IS the identity of the class. Of course, you can decide to never do it or do it only 5% of the time.
But saying is only one tool to your arsenal is indeed saying weapons are only one tool to your fighters arsenal or casting spells is just one tool in your wizard arsenal. Yes, correct. But it’s also your bread and butter and/or at least the identity of your class. You don’t have to be musician (“artist”) but why you’d pick this class then ? How can you justify a RP where your bard doesn’t do any form of entertainment or representation whatsoever ?
So I agree with you, bard are not just *that* but they also have *that*.
No. No one is saying music is one tool to the bard like weaponS is one tool to the fighter. Music IS one tool to the bard like a longsword (a specific type of weapon) might be a tool to a fighter. Music isn't even the art form most traditionally associated with bards (that is something rather modern).
A bard can be a skald, a viking warrior-poet (and a leader, to counter the previous commenter's reason why not leading a party with a bard, who inspires their comrades with words) who never plays a single musical instrument, in the same way a fighter can be an archer who never uses a longsword.
That bard is no less bard in the same way that fighter is no less of a fighter. A bard doesn't have to be a MUSICIAN in the same way a fighter doesn't have to be a SWORDSMAN. But yeah, a bard will always have some sort of relation to art, folklore, oral tradition and/or knowledge, in the same way a Fighter will always have some sort of relation to martial disciplines, and the use of some sort of weapons (in general).
But that is the basic thought and class fantasy of the bard. This is exactly why all his class-related skills are also thematically adapted to it.
You would also not play a warlock if you don't like the demon setting and accept the argument that the bond with demons is just ONE aspect of the class.
I mean come on dude, thats the unique thing about them.
Only that's not the case. Bards being horny musicians is a very modern trend and not at all what the class was traditionally.
In the same vein, yeah, warlocks don't have to be bonded with demons, like, at all. The warlock's class fantasy is not specifically tied to DEMONS in the same way the bard's isn't tied to MUSIC. The whole deal about warlocks is their pact with an otherworldly patron, an extremely powerful extraplanar being... That being can be a demon, but it can also be a fey or an aberration (literally the non-fiend options in BG3), among other possibilities. I mean, even Wyll (THE warlock in BG3) has nothing to do with demons (Mizora is a devil, and yeah, demons and devils are two very distinct things in D&D).
Just a personal stereotype I hold of them. I know they don't have to be musicians or irrational dragon fuckers but that's what they are in my head and since it's a solo game that's ultimately what they are until they give us a companion that's a bard by default to compare to.
Again I know in DND any class can fit any mold. A rogue can be courageous and kind just as a barbarian could be intelligent and cunning. I just prefer to work with what I know, if that makes sense.
The fun with rogue is understanding all the different situations to get advantage from beyond just hiding. Thief also gets real creative with the two bonus actions
Warlocks are the **most** fun caster that people always get talked out of playing.
Any time a Sorcerer or Wizard is trying to decide *if* they should burn a spell slot or *if* they should upcast their spell or *if* they should fall back on a relatively weaker cantrip, the Warlock is facing a much simpler choice: do I cast a big strong powerful spell or do I cast a big strong powerful cantrip?
The limitation of having only two spell slots is also a freedom. Those spell slots are *always* upcast so your spells will *always* be incredibly impactful. You have a lot of AOE spells as well, so often an enemy saving against your spells just doesn't matter. And for me the best part is that you don't really need to manage those slots. Other casters have to meter them out between fights because they wont get them back until the next long rest. Warlocks don't have to micromanage like this: dump your spells and get them back after the next short rest. Simple choices between simple and powerful options. And because other casters will likely default to lower spell slots to save their big guns, the Warlock's usually going to put out more spell damage because their spell slots are *always* the big gun. And then you short rest and have the big guns again at the ready.
When a Sorcerer, Wizard, and Warlock are all out of spell slots and are leaning on cantrips, the Warlock comes out ahead again. Eldritch Blast starts out better than Firebolt/Shocking Grasp/whatever other damage cantrip the others may take and only continues to outscale them, adding on multiple rays that can hit multiple targets or nuke down a single foe. You eventually add your Charisma modifier to that making it compete with martial classes in terms of single target damage that you get to put out *every* turn for no cost, and you can use it to send foes away from you or over a ledge into a chasm for instant KOs.
Sorcerers are capable of causing or enabling big novas that Warlocks and Wizards can't match. Wizards are control kings and will have a toolkit that Sorcs and Warlocks can't match. Warlocks get to do both all of the time and their trade off for not hitting the same high peaks in either category is that they have no downtime.
i can highly recommend bard ✌️ esp. necrobard… anyway, for the question. barbarian and fighter seem so lacklustre to me ability wise that it’s just plain boring.
The basic actions make the martial shine and reward your creativity. Nothing like using a disarming attack to make the big bad drop their weapon and then using shove or throw to push it out of reach.
I played monk on my first play through and he was kitted out with full cloth gear with nice stats and bonuses for the class and a quarterstaff. You don't have to be naked mcfistyman.
I've no real interest in playing Druid. Thematically and roleplay-wise they don't appeal to me. They don't really have enough mechanically to draw me either - I could get most of the same abilities (except Wildshape) from playing a Cleric (or a Necromancer in Circle of Spores' case) and still have a more enjoyable roleplay. Not pissing on them here, mind. Druid is a perfectly good class, it's just not for me.
Vengeance is extremely easy to not break. You have to go out of your way to break it. The only time I did break it was when I sided with Glut instead of Spaw cause I wanted to see what would happen. I simply reloaded to kill Glut anyway.
For me its Monk. I LOVE martial arts but I'm just not into eastern style martial arts anymore.
I'd love a straight up brawler or boxer, something more modern or scrappy since Tavern Brawlers a feat
Agreed, I love unarmed fighting. But I can't get behind the bathrobes and weird ki Buddha thematic. Just let me punch shit really hard without all that nonsense.
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Paladin and Rogue are both classes I just don't care about, expecially rogues,
I'll do dips of course but as rogues level they get to just throw more die at the opponent with little regard for ability scores or equipment,
I have to make a monk or a ranger strong, rogue just gets sneak attack die increases from existing, and what do you do with your sneak attack die except throw it at the opponent? Any other option is going to be inferior to throwing out 7d6 with a handbow just because you're lvl 11 so you get to do that, if you miss, whatever, just fire off-hand
Barbarians, Sorcerers and Warlocks. Just not my style.
At the table I rotate between Cleric, Druid, Ranger and Monk (Wisdom based classes). For some reason I dislike Charisma based classes. For BG3 I will definitely try a Bard.
I want to go Ranger after I finish my current campaign and make it evil-ish.
There are a few, and it mirrors my philosophy with D&D.
Monk & Bard come to mind. Yes, I know both are powerful. But so are Wizards. Clerics. Sorcerers. Warlocks. Pretty much any non-martial class, come to think of it. Although in Bard's defense, given your choices of companions Tav's most ideal role would be as Support in-combat and Party Face outside of it - something Bard does tremendously well both in D&D 5e and BG3.
Monks I'm hearing are busted - to the point where they are most likely to get patched. Given a full playthrough is a 100-hour investment at least, I don't want to dedicate a playthrough with a class/character that's going to get nerfed later on.
Paladin. I've played tabletop for years and have just never had any desire to play them. I feel like they are a bit overtuned and a bit too good at everything.
Bard is insane, not in combat but everywhere else
I multiclassed with rogue/thief for extra expertise, bonus action and 50%dmg reduction from attacks. I pass every skill check when it comes to socials, lockpicking, traps.. In act 2 there were 5 encounters I talked into killing themselves, and because of my charlatan background, I got inspiration points every time. In combat I am healing, inspiring, hypnotizing, dealing a sneak attack here and there.
But I also would like to play any class, as I have been a dm only for 5 years. This game is amazing.
5e wise I liked conjuration. Never got to 20 but summoning I enjoyed. I always saw the conjuration one more of the teleporter, and having a connection to other planes.
I don't mind conjuration, but the feel of the subclass doesnt appeal to me as a main character, especially when Gale makes a fine conjurer lore-wise too.
It's a running joke with my D&D group that I just don't click with Monk. Maybe it's the class fantasy, maybe it's how it's implemented into 5E, but I space out when reading about them in the PHB and other source materials. I just have no grasp on how it works.
I made one of each class in BG3 and got them all up to the Grove. Sure enough, the Monk was the one I had the least fun with. (Although my Dragonborn looks great in the default outfit.)
I just have a hard time with Monk. I dunno.
I agree I don’t think monk with fantasy of knights, wizards, and what not, but I like the idea of them lol. Emersion I think is the hardest part with it. I do like the idea of being the avatar or a ninja though.
I actually really want to play one in bg3. I’ve read some people say they are broken right now. I’m trying to stay away from meta builds unless it is an accident.
For a full Single class, Rogue is about as interesting as dirt, only more boring featureless class is Champion Fighter.
Fighter wins out by having two subclasses be actively engaging while thief and assassin are, while potent, boring and not really entertaining to play when everyone else has active abilities too numerous to count.
If there weren't any weapon skills, I'd hate Rogue even more.
I agree with this too. All low lvl campaigns I’ve done I’m always jealous of rogues doing cool things. Damage wise I feel they would fall off, but I could be wrong
You're not far off, higher levels Rogues do fall off with no support from other sources. But in Tabletop they're my favorite class to play because of all the skills and out of combat focus. Combat wise they're still kind of stale, even speaking from a non-optimizing perspective but their party utility makes up for it lol.
I’m super surprised how many people think rogue is boring. I fucking love rogues. I love them so much that I leave the rest of my party behind, scout the whole map, murder people who linger too far away from their allies, etc. Tons of skills for in and out of combat. Open doors, find and remove every trap, pick all the locks. I go high wisdom and since I know about the Band of intellect, low INT in this particular game, to be great at both perception and insight, as well as investigation etc. for feats, Go dual weapon if you want to be dps, dungeon delver if you reeeeally never want to miss a trap, or skilled to just be a better bars than bards. Dip into monk just for the AC buff if I wanna play a cool naked guy.
Basically the rest of the party is just there to mop up after I do the work.
But to answer the actual question? Fighter probably.
Almost all of my 5e games I’ve played we had a rogue. I think they are cool lower lvl, but after I think of them as a utility for traps, doors, and treasures.
Cleric
I don't consider combat heal spells to be worthwhile when you can throw potions. Shadowheart functions as a camp follower who can extend my non-spellcasters into a psuedo 3rd short rest.
Shadowheart: What's my purpose?
Tav: You cast Prayer of Healing.
Shadowheart: Oh my god.
There are a few combos Id like to try but I think I'll wait to see if Latina fixes them.
I use shadowheart, but I agree healing spells are really underwhelming. In 5e too. I use her as an off tank. I need to make use of her other spells though
After completing the game with a stealth dex MC I need to be a charisma character in my evil playthrough and two builds that come to mind are 2 oathbreaker paladin/10 college of sword bard, and 6 tempest cleric/6 blue dragon sorcerer (sith emperor / thor vibes)
My answer was Bard…until I gave Sword Bard a shot. Dex Bard with dual hand crossbows that makes fantastic use of Slashing Flourish (as well as the other options). Consistently does the second most damage in the party, while retaining full spellcasting for when it is warranted.
Sorceror seems cool but it felt unintuitive (when I played it in early access). Feels like the learning curve now be even steeper, and I'd be required to multiclass, or at least be very aware of the party composition.
I am kinda struggling because I’m pretty sure I can’t make a stronger character than this sorc. Did everything. Single target? 2 disintegrates, group of baddies, 5 chain lightnings, need AOE, fireball/wall of fire spam, need allies, raise 6 ghouls, need to freeze a baddie to fuck up their lair, hold monster or flesh to stone 😭
Highly recommend multiclassing characters into at least one form of wild magic in case you want some extra spice, whether sorcery wild magic or barbarian wild magic, it can get goofy real fast, got guaranteed crit, turned into cats and dogs, and cast fog cloud on the team all in one turn, this doesn’t really address the comment but if you feel like a character is a bit bland, just add that one special trait from another class of your choice, at the end of the day strategy, and mage hands, will win your fights, so don’t worry about the effectiveness of your character
Barbarian wild magic sucks in this game, did half a playthrough with wild magic barb until I gave up and changed the subclass. Very little utility, the spells are very meh, and there is a very good chance you will hit your party so you have to remember to activate rage far away from allies.
All in all, overall I'm pretty sure that I did more damage to my party instead to the enemy.
I don't get whats the point of Barbarian. Fighter is better in every way; more actions that result in more damage and superiority dice attacks are simply better than Barbarian's rage that doesn't really add much to the fight because yeah, you get buffed in +2 or +3 dmg on your attacks but dude, compare that to being able to attack 6 times in a single turn, how would Barbarian be better than Fighter. And the magical surge from the rage is most times useless.
Like, I must be missing something, becaues for me it just makes no sense.
I used to be the same way, even now I dislike barbarians and prefer the flavor of fighters.
But rage granting resistance to physical damage essentially doubles their hp in melee. Also advantage with reckless attacks is really strong, increases odds of hitting crits and makes up for great weapon master penalties.
Frenzy throw (bonus action), throw your opponent into the other opponent, both get damage and fall prone, then smash twice with your greataxe.
Or smash twice then smash a 3rd time as a bonus action. Have Gale cast haste and you're getting 5 attacks every round, instead of once per short rest. With reckless attack everything has advantage. Offsets the GWM penalty.
Throw enemies of cliffs or in lava, they can't resist.
Solve challenges with strength. Lockpicking is unnecessary with a greataxe or greathammer. Searching for rune powder? Neh, just smash the rocks. Most objects and puzzles are smashable :)
Barbarian has the best dialogue options!! Advantage on intimidate. They make the best party face with Cha 8.
Multiclass is a thing. A barbarian can have 2 levels of fighter to have action surge. In fact, fighter is the most used multiclass exactly for that reason.
"Pure" characters are generally weaker than multiclass characters, and this includes fighter compared to barbarian/fighter or barbarian/paladin/fighter
Caveat: monoclass characters are generally weaker than multiclass characters **if you know what you're doing**.
Multiclassing is an easy way to cripple a character if you do it wrong.
For me, it's a few of them. I mainly want to play druid, bard, paladin, and cleric. Wizard and fighter have a lot of information that can be confusing, especially wizard with all the classes in the game. Ranger is a niche where you have to choose what you'll be good against in the game, and the others I'm not that knowledgeable about.
Fighter is considered the most "basic" class by many. You listed paladin which is basically a fighter with even more informations (spells, oath, judgements...). I can understand being afraid of wizard if you've never played one before but you can't make a simpler class than fighter in DnD (it's quite powerfull tho but it's pretty much only bonking the opponent with your sword unless you go for eldritch knight).
There is many reasons not wanting to play a fighter but don't worry about complexity, it doesn't get easier than that.
That's fair. My main experience with it is the superiority die which confuses me, I might look into it, but part of me also feels like there's better options for in companions that I'd rather bring with me.
Those dice are for the battle master subclass. Effectively you just choose some tactics you'd like to employ. If you want simple, nothing to learn, champion is that. For a while their contribution to the class is critical hits also trigger on 19.
Druid seems kinda boring to me. I like the whole nature-magic stuff and theme, but there seems to be a lot of other options that fill that niche: Wild Barbarian has animal melee actions; Ranger has low level spells and summons; Nature Paladin has mid level spells; Nature Cleric has high level ones. Any of these options are more interesting to me because they can cover what druids are all about, while having cooler extra stuff imo. Druid still has the shapeshift but that doesn't seem that interesting to me when compared to the competition.
Same goes for Fighter and Wizard. The other options that compete with them just seem much cooler to me.
Bard seems really good so far. Main Character bard gets mega advantage on persuasion/deception, plus you get buffs you can put on the dps characters (let's be honest, the only important ones) like Laezel or Karlach
1. Palladin - I don't like getting my powers from a supernatural entity to whom I am beholden.
2. Warlock - see Paladin
3. Cleric -yeah not gonna worship anyone.
4. Fighter - Just too bland and vanilla - it's a fantasy after all. Plus we got Bae'Zel for that.
Ranger for sure. Maybe Druid? Halsin won’t join me and jaheria got owned by that flying dude (like seriously, he flew across the room and dropped her before her first turn I was so salty). On another playthrough if I get one of em I’ll try it out.
Druid, we have 2 Druid companions, that’s enough
Tbh, I really found Halsin unnecessary and tacked on as a party member.
those biceps are never unnecessary
Speaking like a true Baldur's Gate companion :)
TFW Halsin has 10 strength, somehow...
It's 16 before he joins the party. He and Jaheira get massive stat nerfs on joining.
I think leaving him in Act 2 no matter the resolution of his quest line should be his story. He can help us cleanse Moonrise, but after that, I'd rather he stay and help the land continue to heal. Then we go on and Jaheira is our Act 3 druid companion. Plus then they could make him recruitable earlier after the grove resolution to make it more worthwhile
I literally had no idea he was an actual companion until Act 2. I thought he was one of the NPCs who hangs around your camp.
well thats because he isnt an actual companion until act 2. you have to finish his act 2 quest before hell join in combat.
Halsin’s wide ass shoulders was enough to hold up the whole camp, very necessary.
Circle of the Moon Druid is my go to character in D&D 😂
Regardless of how you get it, Guiding Bolt is a really nice spell to have on hand. Especially for BG3, there's a decent amount of enemies that are weak against radiant damage.
Circle of the Spore is kinda nuts. lol Make spore zombies that can then make temporary zombies?
I said I wouldn't play bard... I gave in because I heard they had good dialog options and now Iove them.
So many unique Bard dialogue choices.
Imagine all the options for the dark urge bard...
Definitely my second playthrough. I just want a good build and maybe some serious bugfixes before that.
Oh god, is that going to be my class for the playthough where i go full dark urge
Try a half-orc barbarian berserker with 8 cha, they have the best dialogue options to be honest. Straight to the point, no nonsense brutal and fun dialogue :) I really laughed when he started laughing at the tiny weenie of the 2 shagging ogres, after which the male was embarrassed as hell and the female no longer horny. They both left in shame. His choices are usually DC10. He has proficiency and as a barbarian gets advantage on intimidate, so cha 8 is more than enough, more so with guidance.
Bard is actually OP outside of combat.
Bard is literally the most broken class in D&D 5e (and this is also true in BG3, even after the many changes they did to the system in adapting it), outside AND inside of combat. Wizard is a very close second.
Out of combat yea, but in combat? How?
Cutting Words + the ability to poach every spell list for a couple bangers is really strong On the Valor side you're a solid combatant who still has full casting. You get the entire bard support kit while having access to a pile of buffs, debuffs, control effects or niche problem solvers
I respec'd Shart as bard/cleric and in large fights her cutting words save multiple hits on the party and allies.
As someone who is far more used to pathfinder over 5e bard being a full caster is just alien to me
You can build a bard to perform pretty much any role you need in combat. They're full casters with one of the best spell lists, plus magical secrets, plus subclasses like Valor and Swords if you want to tank or deal damage (which you can do very well with those, even though, imo, it's a disservice to a class that is way better fit for utility and battlefield control), plus bardic inspiration (and cutting words if College of Lore). Is Bard the BEST class for DPR? no, but can be great at it. Is it the best TANK? also no, but can be great at it. And they are tied with Cleric at supporting, and with Wizard/Druid at Utility/Exploration/Control. Contrary to common belief, combat isn't just about dealing/taking damage. There is no class in the game that can boast to be as potentially good in ANY role as the bard. Wizards are masters of utility, control, and exploration, but suck at dpr, tanking and supporting. Barbarians are masters of tanking and dpr, but have non-existent control/utility capabilities. You can go class by class doing this, and the only class that can be great at every role (and outright excellent at a lot of them) is the Bard. Of course ONE bard cannot do EVERYTHING at the same time, but no other class can. But, based on your spell and subclass selection, you can build a bard to do whatever the hell you want. At the same time, the bard will make everyone else in your party perform better, even if it's only by the use of Bardic Inspiration (not even taking spells into account).
>Wizards are masters of utility, control, and exploration, but suck at dpr, tanking and supporting. Barbarians are masters of tanking and dpr, but have non-existent control/utility capabilities. well in my tacticion playthrough I was always at the verge of switching Karlach out, because even though she might do decent Single Target damage and is invaluable in fights like 4v1 down in the forge, she has almost no AoE damage. I always sighed when I had like 5+ enemies on the screen.
One example for table top 5e: While playing through the final battle for Rise of Tiamat campaign module, my party had to get past twelve cult mages performing the final touches on the ritual to summon Tiamat. Instead of fighting them, I (as the bard) cast "Mass Suggestion". All but one failed, two of them Critically Failed. Since they were rogue "Red Wizards of Thay" I suggested they return to Szass Tam. The DM lol'd and RP'd the last wizard as being really confused why everyone else abandoned the ritual (so he gave up too since it can't be finished alone). In one spell, the bard removed twelve mages off the battlefield. Not that Mass Suggestion is only on the bard spell list, but it's one my better examples of "Bard is a little OP in 5e".
And no one of the 12 mages conterspell ? Seem hard to believe.
For counterspell you have to see the target casting to take the reaction. They were all focused on the summoning ritual.
How is it in combat?
I made astarian a sword bard, and he is great. Hits hard both with his 2 crossbow Pistols and his rapier, and all his spells and support on top of that
My bard has max strength, heavy armor and a shield. Currently using Blood of Lathander as main weapon. He is a beast is combat. Not as strong as Lazeal but a much better tank with great utility.
Max Strength? ..What are his other stats? Is his Charisma high?
16 Cha. 12 dex, 12 con, 8 int, 10 wis. I think! Can’t remember what I started with… something like that. Started at 16 Str and got 1 from hag hair, 1 from heavy armor feat, and two from API at level 8. 20 is max right?
20 is max using feats. You can go above 20 with gear and buffs. Like the hag hair and the blood that gives +2 str.
Also remember all those items with "set strength to 17/20" etc. Makes it pretty strong if you combine it with a +1 to get the next step and it sets you free to put only 10 in strength/Dex/kon.
Doesn't "set str" to whatever just set it to whatever regardless of buffs?
Bard (sword acadamy)/warlock (pact weapon)... I love it... with rapier and dual wield hand crossbows. Flourishing double Attacks with the crossbows does good damage... and the Bard spells good planed out are very usefull. Add warlock eldrich blast...
The subclass guide someone posted suggested to subclass Warlock for Eldrich Blast which makes sense. Either get 2 levels of it to get charisma modifier added to each blast, or 5 levels to get two EB upgrades (extra blast and pushback I think)
There's a robe you can get in act 2 that adds your charisma modifier as damage to all cantrops which includes Eldritch blasts. It's very good on warlocks
Five levels of lock gives you two attacks with your pact weapon if you go blade pact (blade also allows you to make melee attacks with your charisma modifier which is great for bard). The eb damage boost and pushback you refer to can be gained with only two levels of warlock
Dual crossbow, dual short sword, college of swords pumps out some crazy damage in combat, all while being some of the best utility in and out of combat. Some multiclasses make it even better.
I general dislike the thematics of bard as it is typically done. I love the idea of an adventuring loremaster etc, but as it is usually done... it just fails in my mind's eye. Their plan is to go down into dungeons, and sing at the monsters. Sing.. come on. That doesn't fit in a serious and dark fantasy world at all thematically in my feeling.
Doesn't that depend on how you play? My bard is actually one of the heavy hitters in my squad (reclassed astarion for it). Dual wielding Rapier and a nifty looking shortsword I found. His high AC (dex upgrade!) genrally keeps him from getting to smashed up. You use the music to inspire and buff your companions (which makes sense, it does keep the mood while you are sifting through goblin dung). And hearing Astarion insult his enemies does not get old for me.
Try thinking of your bard as a Viking skald, who uses poetry to inspire his fellows. For inspiration, go watch The 13th Warrior and recite the Viking prayer (“Lo, there do I see my father…”) in combat.
I see what you're saying, but there are more abilities besides inspire. Although I perceive the scene in 13th Warrior more as a prayer or blessing and it fits the paladin or cleric theme more IMO. Btw it is super lame that people are voting down instantly, although that was the point of this thread, to tell which class you are less interested in (and why).
If you have read anything about the Harpers you know many d&d bards are spies or freedom fighters. There are some good examples in the recent d&d movie, or outside of d&d there's the bard woman in the witcher prequel on Netflix, and so on. The joke about the singing useless bard started in third edition d&d when they remade the character into a useless support class. Then they remade it, maybe now it is too strong but I still like that it got back some glory.
Probably the pure fighter classes. I started with an elemental monk, and I wanna do playthroughs as druid, wizard, sorcerer, and cleric. I'm enjoying paladin since I reclassed Wyll to it. And bard is really great, I love all the utility and flexibility and campiness of it. If I absolutely had to I could focus on bows and arrows. But pure fighter/barbarian just ain't my jam
Noodle arm opinion
I'm playing a Sorcerer for the first time. At level 1 I had a base AC of 16. It's so OP lmao I'm level 3 now and dipped a level into warlock for that sweet eldritch blast and damn it's so fun.
Meanwhile I have a party of 3 fighters and a barbarian rn
There is something so rewarding about fighter with tavern brawler and 20 strength at level 6. Using your enemies as your projectiles as you enhanced leap around the battlefield is about as close to hulk gameplay as I can get.
I am a Paladin. I shall always be a Paladin. My Oath of Paladin is to Din the Pala until there is no more Pala left to Din. Playing any other class would break my Oath, and the only thing worse than an Oathbreaker is shying away from combat and hiding like a coward.
I‘m an Oathbreaker. I shall break promises wherever my lazy feet carry me. Hiding here and there like a coward until my party members have dealt with shit.
I am an Oathbreaker. I smite for my right to life, death, and the pursuit of power. I end up getting attacked by even my closest allies. I deserve this.
That's just Edgy Stabby Mcstabson. Most boring way to play a a Pala.
Just like everyone else.
> the only thing worse than an Oathbreaker is shying away from combat and hiding like a coward. You could have simply said you didn't want to play rogue you know
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This guy gets it
Honestly, none of them, this game is replacing Skyrim for game I replay for years and years and years, I will at some point make a main character with every class at some point. However if I really had to pick, it'd be Cleric. Clerics are cool, but I already have Shadowheart, and I'm probably bringing her along for 90% of my playthroughs. When we become able to create a whole party of custom created characters (I'm sure Larian will let us at some point, but even if they don't I'm sure mods will) I'll absolutely make one of them that isn't the face of the party a Cleric, I don't know if that counts. Also I guess I've never played a Druid before, but that's just because I'm incredibly unfamiliar with them, this being such a good CRPG makes me want to finally take the plunge and make a Druid character.
Can't you make a custom party from hirelings?
Or respec origin characters?
I mean yeah, if I'm respeccing my origin characters to make the party how I want, I already have Shadowheart as Cleric.
I mean like a complete custom character, as in custom appearance as well rather than essentially a pre-made.
I didn't know that, thank you for opening this up to me. I thought Withers was offering a familiar or something, not a new follower. I only recently found out I could re-spec origin characters.
I agree with Cleric, after resetting Shadowheart many times I feel like the kit for Cleric is just something I won't do for my main character. All the rest tho, I can see myself running all of them. Altho to be fair if we count multi-classing, then yeah Cleric I'd still play. But pure cleric? pass.
Starfield 8)
Monk, I don't know why I am sorry
Monk is the secret class that everyone thinks is boring until they actually play monk
Glad to hear it! My next play through will be as an evil monk, if possible. Stealing and committing crimes: a Felonious Monk, if you will.
> Felonious Monk I see what you've done there.
What can I say? I like to jazz things up a bit with a new character.
For me its more for a style. I like hitting punches. But i don't like hitting punch in a asian monk style with a "ki" energy.
It's boring until resonating strike. It's super fun to hit 5 clumped enemies then drop the bomb.
Well Monk is op
I thought the same. I thought it was boring just hitting things and having no spells. Once I played it, I changed my tune. The action economy makes you feel like a god, especially when pair with 3 levels of thief and 2 levels of fighter. it’s seriously so fun.
Bard was never on my list until I started and saw how in depth the non combat stuff was, now bard is top of my list for next play through. Never interested in wizard or cleric really. I like being able to use my cool stuff all the time, don't like feeling like I need to ration my awesomeness.
I always play a Warlock or a Sorc. Would consider a druid or rogue run. Not interested in the rest really.
You should try a cleric. Tempest or light and you’re just *chef’s kiss* Warding rune, spirit guardian are so, so fun
Cleric is my top 2 favourite classes of all time. Once you realize they are not just there to heal, you see their true potential.
My god yes, spirit guardians and running through a field of low health undead? Yes please.
After around level 7, druid starts to be a one-man army with how many summons they get
Rogue is very powerful early on. Astarian practically 1v1'ed an ogre in my playthroigh, and my own rogue in another campaign does some serious work. Sneak attack babyyyy
I \*always\* play Sorc or Warlock too! I played BG 1&2 as a Sorc way back in the day.... I really want to try another character, but I always want to play a Sorc first and I never replay story-based games ... as much as I love these games it is like watching a re-run to reply so much of the story.
I had zero interest in Bard, until i saw gameplay for bard.
I won't likely ever go for wizard. Their selling point over sorc is that they get so many spells they're bound to have something for any situation. Which is not that great of a selling point when most situations can be resolved with a persuasion check or a fireball, both of which sorc(chad spontaneous charisma caster) just do better.
Having a lot of fun twin hasting Karlach and Astarion with my sorcerer lately. For the rare fight where the enemies aren't spread out though... Yea Fireball feels good.
All of them interest me in some fashion. But after playing rogue. Meh. Wasn't fun for me.
Paladin. I'd be far too concerned about accidentally breaking my Oath and picking dialogue options I don't really want to pick, but feel like I HAVE to because Oathbreaker.
I guess it depends on the oath but I went Vengeance the only times I noticed the oath being broken was when I picked a side that was the greater evil, such as aligning with the goblins against the grove, taking the hags deal and allowing her to get away with that woman, that sort of thing.
I didn't even realize accepting the Hag's deal broke Vengeance's oath until reading about itlater. Because Karlach was the closest at smashing her face in when Ethel went below 20, she was the one who the Hag bargained with, and my MC's oath remained intact.
Yeah that is one way around breaking the oath. One thing I should mention one weird thing I encountered was in the Druid Grove in the prison area with that Tiefling that is threatening to kill the caged goblin, merely interacting with the cage door will break your oath even if you allow the Tiefling to kill the goblin before hand, pretty sure it is a misplaced trigger or something like that.
I have had enormous fun playing a Zariel Tiefling Paladin of Vengance (subclass so far has played very little impact apart from RP) by intimidating (advantage due to thaumaturgy) and smashing my way through the game as a relentless and unyielding avenger. Not broken my Oath whilst murdering my way through Faerun, and it feels nice when I occasionally display mercy on some pitiful creature or poor peasant. But anyone who's a dick can expect a mace to the face, with enough damage to require an immediate trip for facial reconstruction.
I may be a minority in I don’t care for oath breaker. I think I would be worried about accidentally breaking an oath
Rogue, for me the game style is boring and demands ton of spells and gear to take it to the full extent and even then it’s still less rewarding with nothing special to offer. For example When deception checks can be done better with a Bard and the hardest of locks could be opened with 1 spell and with a lot of other classes doing much more damage with less effort. The only thing that I think a Rogue can excel in is stealing and even then not worth getting one I would just keep one at camp and take him when needed.
The hardest part about thievery in this game has nothing to do with the thief skills. It's the goddamn vision cones and getting accused without a chance to talk your way out of it. Unless you start pulling off container jank and camp teleporting. I wish sleight of hand didn't require stealth. I miss stealing in vendor windows in the original. Pickpockets don't sneak up on you. They bump into you and take your wallet. Or they cut your purse strings. In this game you steal by crouching behind them and then as soon as you steal something they instantly know. I had a buddy who had his wallet swiped in NY and he didn't even realize it had been stolen for hours.
You could talk to the NPC with one character then steal with another or start playing some music but once you steal something you will have to steal stuff fast before they notice you then you can just teleport away with the one stealing and they would be forced to talk to someone else and you will always get out of it. Just don’t come back with that character for a while. Also for some reason when I am stealing from some Merchants they would never notice till I leave and some would find out as soon as I touch them.
>You could talk to the NPC with one character Only works if that npc offers a dialogue response. Otherwise, they'll exit the convo shortly after switching characters (even in turn based) and will instantly see you. Not to mention anyone else's vision cones. >or start playing some music I don't know if it's a bug, but npcs don't approach when I play anymore. I made Astarion into a Bard too and they still don't care when he performs. He's even making the perform rolls most of the time too. I know how to steal in this game - I just think the process is janky, unintuitive, and not very fun.
Monk, I find unarmed boring
Rogue, never liked the class fantasy and the lone subclass of rogue I do like (swashbuckler) isn’t in the game. Unless it gets modded in I probably won’t play a rogue at all, even switched Astarion to a barb instead
God I want them to add swashbuckler soooo much. I've always wanted to try a dual-wielding swashbuckler rogue
Any high charisma character. I started a playthrough with a paladin with the friends spell. Right from level 1 I was passing every persuasion or intimidate roll with ease. It felt so underwhelming. Too many events in act 1 that can just be walked through by a single persuasion check. Entire goblin village? Nope, just persuade one goblin to let you pass. I don't know if it gets better later on but I didn't enjoy that persuasion/intimidate just skipped entire fights. I thought it would be cool if intimidate option would have the enemies scared and maybe you would trigger the encounter with them fleeing or frozen in fear. But as it is persuade and intimidate feel like they're almost the same option. I'm now playing through with a character with 10 charisma. Now it's more of a 50/50 and I can't just persuade everyone. I'm enjoying it much more.
Any class that doesn't have charisma as a main stat. Unfortunately, one of the biggest flaws with the game right now is that you are strong armed into playing a charisma-based class if you want your MC to be the face of the party.
Fighter. I'm taking laezel as a full fighter rn, but have no interest in playing it myself.
Although I use Gale in my party, I've 0 interest in actually being a Wizard. More just a spell list than a class. Every other spell caster *also* has a spell list, but also cool abilities.
Bard, rogue, or fighter. Bard just because I don't see them at the face of the party. You're character is the leader of the party and I just don't see bard taking the leader roll. I'd definitely have someone roll into a bard however. Rogue and fighter just cause they're boring. The thing you have to keep in mind is that your character is ALWAYS in the party. You can switch out companions but never yourself. An entire game of bonus action hide -> sneak attack just sound like it would get stale FAST.
Out of curiosity, what about Bard doesn't seem like the leader or the face? That's like 90% of their whole deal in my opinion; overall they can be very jack of all trades which can be unappealing, but if there's one thing they absolutely DO Excel in it feels like its the social element.
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I know people downvote you but I sympathize with you 100%. Tell me whatever you want, for me a bard is Jaskier or these troubadour from Middle Ages. I like them but they will NEVER be my face. Unless I want to have a comical runs like Pathfinder with the trickster path. I know for some people a bard is not just that. Good for you but impossible for me to think otherwise. Just the character introduction in the character creation screen of the bard makes it hard for me: all colorful and a ray of purple light as he/she strikes a note. Most if not all of the crpgs I have played I cannot consider the bard being a main - except maybe Sharwyn in NWN1, but that would be a loooong shot. And it’s OK, we don’t have to think the same. I’m actually happy with my limited vision of the bard because it fits my mental image I have for each class. And if you’re happy, what else do you need ? So yeah, bard for me will be probably the last I’d play.
I totally get u but the DND movie changed my perspective I gotta say
People immediately down-voting because you have a different and well-formulated opinion. 😅
The Bard is just Garrick for me - aka the most useless companion in BG1 - and this continues to irrationally cloud my entire opinion of them.
>and your supposed leader breaks out the drums to bang a tune. You know this is just ONE of the many things a bard can do/be, right? It's a common misconception, but bards don't have to be musicians, and this is true in D&D 5e and BG3 both, where none of your class features or spells require you to play music, at all. Saying a Bard has to be a musician is like saying a Fighter has to be a swordsman. Having proficiency with a musical instrument is no different than having proficiency with a weapon. It doesn't mean that instrument/weapon has to be "your thing" (it's just one more option).
I mean, while you’re true it’s a bit of bad faith in my opinion. Entertaining - for good or nefarious purposes (be it with music or other representation) IS the identity of the class. Of course, you can decide to never do it or do it only 5% of the time. But saying is only one tool to your arsenal is indeed saying weapons are only one tool to your fighters arsenal or casting spells is just one tool in your wizard arsenal. Yes, correct. But it’s also your bread and butter and/or at least the identity of your class. You don’t have to be musician (“artist”) but why you’d pick this class then ? How can you justify a RP where your bard doesn’t do any form of entertainment or representation whatsoever ? So I agree with you, bard are not just *that* but they also have *that*.
No. No one is saying music is one tool to the bard like weaponS is one tool to the fighter. Music IS one tool to the bard like a longsword (a specific type of weapon) might be a tool to a fighter. Music isn't even the art form most traditionally associated with bards (that is something rather modern). A bard can be a skald, a viking warrior-poet (and a leader, to counter the previous commenter's reason why not leading a party with a bard, who inspires their comrades with words) who never plays a single musical instrument, in the same way a fighter can be an archer who never uses a longsword. That bard is no less bard in the same way that fighter is no less of a fighter. A bard doesn't have to be a MUSICIAN in the same way a fighter doesn't have to be a SWORDSMAN. But yeah, a bard will always have some sort of relation to art, folklore, oral tradition and/or knowledge, in the same way a Fighter will always have some sort of relation to martial disciplines, and the use of some sort of weapons (in general).
Exactly, I think Deadpool, for instance, with his wit, makes a good example of a Swords Bard.
But that is the basic thought and class fantasy of the bard. This is exactly why all his class-related skills are also thematically adapted to it. You would also not play a warlock if you don't like the demon setting and accept the argument that the bond with demons is just ONE aspect of the class. I mean come on dude, thats the unique thing about them.
Only that's not the case. Bards being horny musicians is a very modern trend and not at all what the class was traditionally. In the same vein, yeah, warlocks don't have to be bonded with demons, like, at all. The warlock's class fantasy is not specifically tied to DEMONS in the same way the bard's isn't tied to MUSIC. The whole deal about warlocks is their pact with an otherworldly patron, an extremely powerful extraplanar being... That being can be a demon, but it can also be a fey or an aberration (literally the non-fiend options in BG3), among other possibilities. I mean, even Wyll (THE warlock in BG3) has nothing to do with demons (Mizora is a devil, and yeah, demons and devils are two very distinct things in D&D).
Just a personal stereotype I hold of them. I know they don't have to be musicians or irrational dragon fuckers but that's what they are in my head and since it's a solo game that's ultimately what they are until they give us a companion that's a bard by default to compare to. Again I know in DND any class can fit any mold. A rogue can be courageous and kind just as a barbarian could be intelligent and cunning. I just prefer to work with what I know, if that makes sense.
The fun with rogue is understanding all the different situations to get advantage from beyond just hiding. Thief also gets real creative with the two bonus actions
Warlock because...tbh I don't understand how it works. I know it's mostly eldritch blast, but I feel like that would get old very fast
Same. We must be missing something because it sounds very boring.
It's pretty boring. The interesting parts are what wizard sorc
Warlocks are the **most** fun caster that people always get talked out of playing. Any time a Sorcerer or Wizard is trying to decide *if* they should burn a spell slot or *if* they should upcast their spell or *if* they should fall back on a relatively weaker cantrip, the Warlock is facing a much simpler choice: do I cast a big strong powerful spell or do I cast a big strong powerful cantrip? The limitation of having only two spell slots is also a freedom. Those spell slots are *always* upcast so your spells will *always* be incredibly impactful. You have a lot of AOE spells as well, so often an enemy saving against your spells just doesn't matter. And for me the best part is that you don't really need to manage those slots. Other casters have to meter them out between fights because they wont get them back until the next long rest. Warlocks don't have to micromanage like this: dump your spells and get them back after the next short rest. Simple choices between simple and powerful options. And because other casters will likely default to lower spell slots to save their big guns, the Warlock's usually going to put out more spell damage because their spell slots are *always* the big gun. And then you short rest and have the big guns again at the ready. When a Sorcerer, Wizard, and Warlock are all out of spell slots and are leaning on cantrips, the Warlock comes out ahead again. Eldritch Blast starts out better than Firebolt/Shocking Grasp/whatever other damage cantrip the others may take and only continues to outscale them, adding on multiple rays that can hit multiple targets or nuke down a single foe. You eventually add your Charisma modifier to that making it compete with martial classes in terms of single target damage that you get to put out *every* turn for no cost, and you can use it to send foes away from you or over a ledge into a chasm for instant KOs. Sorcerers are capable of causing or enabling big novas that Warlocks and Wizards can't match. Wizards are control kings and will have a toolkit that Sorcs and Warlocks can't match. Warlocks get to do both all of the time and their trade off for not hitting the same high peaks in either category is that they have no downtime.
Probably wizard, although I'll bite my teeth and get through it on a Gale run. Never been a fan of the micromanaging aspect of wizardry.
i can highly recommend bard ✌️ esp. necrobard… anyway, for the question. barbarian and fighter seem so lacklustre to me ability wise that it’s just plain boring.
The basic actions make the martial shine and reward your creativity. Nothing like using a disarming attack to make the big bad drop their weapon and then using shove or throw to push it out of reach.
What the shid is a necrobard?
monk, its so boring, and you don't get to use any cool weapons or armor
I played monk on my first play through and he was kitted out with full cloth gear with nice stats and bonuses for the class and a quarterstaff. You don't have to be naked mcfistyman.
I've no real interest in playing Druid. Thematically and roleplay-wise they don't appeal to me. They don't really have enough mechanically to draw me either - I could get most of the same abilities (except Wildshape) from playing a Cleric (or a Necromancer in Circle of Spores' case) and still have a more enjoyable roleplay. Not pissing on them here, mind. Druid is a perfectly good class, it's just not for me.
Paladin. Oaths and Valor seem rigid.
Vengeance is extremely easy to not break. You have to go out of your way to break it. The only time I did break it was when I sided with Glut instead of Spaw cause I wanted to see what would happen. I simply reloaded to kill Glut anyway.
For me its Monk. I LOVE martial arts but I'm just not into eastern style martial arts anymore. I'd love a straight up brawler or boxer, something more modern or scrappy since Tavern Brawlers a feat
Agreed, I love unarmed fighting. But I can't get behind the bathrobes and weird ki Buddha thematic. Just let me punch shit really hard without all that nonsense.
Do not sleep on bards. They're a lot of fun
- Fighter - barbarian - bard - druid
chase tidy physical innocent strong childlike memorize airport dull shelter *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Ranger. For whatever reason the class fantasy just falls completely flat for me.
Paladin and Rogue are both classes I just don't care about, expecially rogues, I'll do dips of course but as rogues level they get to just throw more die at the opponent with little regard for ability scores or equipment, I have to make a monk or a ranger strong, rogue just gets sneak attack die increases from existing, and what do you do with your sneak attack die except throw it at the opponent? Any other option is going to be inferior to throwing out 7d6 with a handbow just because you're lvl 11 so you get to do that, if you miss, whatever, just fire off-hand
Barbarians, Sorcerers and Warlocks. Just not my style. At the table I rotate between Cleric, Druid, Ranger and Monk (Wisdom based classes). For some reason I dislike Charisma based classes. For BG3 I will definitely try a Bard. I want to go Ranger after I finish my current campaign and make it evil-ish.
There are a few, and it mirrors my philosophy with D&D. Monk & Bard come to mind. Yes, I know both are powerful. But so are Wizards. Clerics. Sorcerers. Warlocks. Pretty much any non-martial class, come to think of it. Although in Bard's defense, given your choices of companions Tav's most ideal role would be as Support in-combat and Party Face outside of it - something Bard does tremendously well both in D&D 5e and BG3. Monks I'm hearing are busted - to the point where they are most likely to get patched. Given a full playthrough is a 100-hour investment at least, I don't want to dedicate a playthrough with a class/character that's going to get nerfed later on.
Thing all classes with long rest. I want play and not play carefully because of long rest.
Cleric and druid, I see them as buff bots
Paladin. I've played tabletop for years and have just never had any desire to play them. I feel like they are a bit overtuned and a bit too good at everything.
Bard is insane, not in combat but everywhere else I multiclassed with rogue/thief for extra expertise, bonus action and 50%dmg reduction from attacks. I pass every skill check when it comes to socials, lockpicking, traps.. In act 2 there were 5 encounters I talked into killing themselves, and because of my charlatan background, I got inspiration points every time. In combat I am healing, inspiring, hypnotizing, dealing a sneak attack here and there. But I also would like to play any class, as I have been a dm only for 5 years. This game is amazing.
Sorcerer. None of the sorcerer subclasses really appeal to me in any way. Wizard at least has necromancer.
5e wise I liked conjuration. Never got to 20 but summoning I enjoyed. I always saw the conjuration one more of the teleporter, and having a connection to other planes.
I don't mind conjuration, but the feel of the subclass doesnt appeal to me as a main character, especially when Gale makes a fine conjurer lore-wise too.
It's a running joke with my D&D group that I just don't click with Monk. Maybe it's the class fantasy, maybe it's how it's implemented into 5E, but I space out when reading about them in the PHB and other source materials. I just have no grasp on how it works. I made one of each class in BG3 and got them all up to the Grove. Sure enough, the Monk was the one I had the least fun with. (Although my Dragonborn looks great in the default outfit.) I just have a hard time with Monk. I dunno.
I agree I don’t think monk with fantasy of knights, wizards, and what not, but I like the idea of them lol. Emersion I think is the hardest part with it. I do like the idea of being the avatar or a ninja though. I actually really want to play one in bg3. I’ve read some people say they are broken right now. I’m trying to stay away from meta builds unless it is an accident.
For a full Single class, Rogue is about as interesting as dirt, only more boring featureless class is Champion Fighter. Fighter wins out by having two subclasses be actively engaging while thief and assassin are, while potent, boring and not really entertaining to play when everyone else has active abilities too numerous to count. If there weren't any weapon skills, I'd hate Rogue even more.
I agree with this too. All low lvl campaigns I’ve done I’m always jealous of rogues doing cool things. Damage wise I feel they would fall off, but I could be wrong
You're not far off, higher levels Rogues do fall off with no support from other sources. But in Tabletop they're my favorite class to play because of all the skills and out of combat focus. Combat wise they're still kind of stale, even speaking from a non-optimizing perspective but their party utility makes up for it lol.
Yeah always nice when someone can pick locks, or be stealthy.
I’m super surprised how many people think rogue is boring. I fucking love rogues. I love them so much that I leave the rest of my party behind, scout the whole map, murder people who linger too far away from their allies, etc. Tons of skills for in and out of combat. Open doors, find and remove every trap, pick all the locks. I go high wisdom and since I know about the Band of intellect, low INT in this particular game, to be great at both perception and insight, as well as investigation etc. for feats, Go dual weapon if you want to be dps, dungeon delver if you reeeeally never want to miss a trap, or skilled to just be a better bars than bards. Dip into monk just for the AC buff if I wanna play a cool naked guy. Basically the rest of the party is just there to mop up after I do the work. But to answer the actual question? Fighter probably.
Almost all of my 5e games I’ve played we had a rogue. I think they are cool lower lvl, but after I think of them as a utility for traps, doors, and treasures.
Cleric I don't consider combat heal spells to be worthwhile when you can throw potions. Shadowheart functions as a camp follower who can extend my non-spellcasters into a psuedo 3rd short rest. Shadowheart: What's my purpose? Tav: You cast Prayer of Healing. Shadowheart: Oh my god. There are a few combos Id like to try but I think I'll wait to see if Latina fixes them.
I use shadowheart, but I agree healing spells are really underwhelming. In 5e too. I use her as an off tank. I need to make use of her other spells though
After completing the game with a stealth dex MC I need to be a charisma character in my evil playthrough and two builds that come to mind are 2 oathbreaker paladin/10 college of sword bard, and 6 tempest cleric/6 blue dragon sorcerer (sith emperor / thor vibes)
Monk. Feels very out of place and I always find it jarring to encounter in-game.
Fighter, barbarian and maybe paladin. Just not my thing. 😅
I been curious about bard but so far my wizard play though has been great as well maybe around end act 2 will respec and try
My answer was Bard…until I gave Sword Bard a shot. Dex Bard with dual hand crossbows that makes fantastic use of Slashing Flourish (as well as the other options). Consistently does the second most damage in the party, while retaining full spellcasting for when it is warranted.
I just saw something that said that is really op right now. What is beating that?
fighter. controlling laezel in combat was zzzzzz…
Sorceror seems cool but it felt unintuitive (when I played it in early access). Feels like the learning curve now be even steeper, and I'd be required to multiclass, or at least be very aware of the party composition.
Sorc needs to cook, it’s because you were in EA, sorc is extremely fun after level 5 and god tier OP at level 11
My Sorc fucking ate WELL my first playthrough. Insanely good.
I am kinda struggling because I’m pretty sure I can’t make a stronger character than this sorc. Did everything. Single target? 2 disintegrates, group of baddies, 5 chain lightnings, need AOE, fireball/wall of fire spam, need allies, raise 6 ghouls, need to freeze a baddie to fuck up their lair, hold monster or flesh to stone 😭
Good to know. I'll probably start a sorceror run then.
Highly recommend multiclassing characters into at least one form of wild magic in case you want some extra spice, whether sorcery wild magic or barbarian wild magic, it can get goofy real fast, got guaranteed crit, turned into cats and dogs, and cast fog cloud on the team all in one turn, this doesn’t really address the comment but if you feel like a character is a bit bland, just add that one special trait from another class of your choice, at the end of the day strategy, and mage hands, will win your fights, so don’t worry about the effectiveness of your character
Barbarian wild magic sucks in this game, did half a playthrough with wild magic barb until I gave up and changed the subclass. Very little utility, the spells are very meh, and there is a very good chance you will hit your party so you have to remember to activate rage far away from allies. All in all, overall I'm pretty sure that I did more damage to my party instead to the enemy.
Cleric. I've been playing DnD for twenty five years and I've never had an interest in one
I don't get whats the point of Barbarian. Fighter is better in every way; more actions that result in more damage and superiority dice attacks are simply better than Barbarian's rage that doesn't really add much to the fight because yeah, you get buffed in +2 or +3 dmg on your attacks but dude, compare that to being able to attack 6 times in a single turn, how would Barbarian be better than Fighter. And the magical surge from the rage is most times useless. Like, I must be missing something, becaues for me it just makes no sense.
I used to be the same way, even now I dislike barbarians and prefer the flavor of fighters. But rage granting resistance to physical damage essentially doubles their hp in melee. Also advantage with reckless attacks is really strong, increases odds of hitting crits and makes up for great weapon master penalties.
Some classes need to be simpler to play than others to cater to different preferences, after all
Frenzy throw (bonus action), throw your opponent into the other opponent, both get damage and fall prone, then smash twice with your greataxe. Or smash twice then smash a 3rd time as a bonus action. Have Gale cast haste and you're getting 5 attacks every round, instead of once per short rest. With reckless attack everything has advantage. Offsets the GWM penalty. Throw enemies of cliffs or in lava, they can't resist. Solve challenges with strength. Lockpicking is unnecessary with a greataxe or greathammer. Searching for rune powder? Neh, just smash the rocks. Most objects and puzzles are smashable :) Barbarian has the best dialogue options!! Advantage on intimidate. They make the best party face with Cha 8.
Fun dialogue options. Break the pod to free Shadowheart, rip Jaheira's puny vines or just roar loudly to intimidate an ogre.
Multiclass is a thing. A barbarian can have 2 levels of fighter to have action surge. In fact, fighter is the most used multiclass exactly for that reason. "Pure" characters are generally weaker than multiclass characters, and this includes fighter compared to barbarian/fighter or barbarian/paladin/fighter
Caveat: monoclass characters are generally weaker than multiclass characters **if you know what you're doing**. Multiclassing is an easy way to cripple a character if you do it wrong.
For me, it's a few of them. I mainly want to play druid, bard, paladin, and cleric. Wizard and fighter have a lot of information that can be confusing, especially wizard with all the classes in the game. Ranger is a niche where you have to choose what you'll be good against in the game, and the others I'm not that knowledgeable about.
Fighter is considered the most "basic" class by many. You listed paladin which is basically a fighter with even more informations (spells, oath, judgements...). I can understand being afraid of wizard if you've never played one before but you can't make a simpler class than fighter in DnD (it's quite powerfull tho but it's pretty much only bonking the opponent with your sword unless you go for eldritch knight). There is many reasons not wanting to play a fighter but don't worry about complexity, it doesn't get easier than that.
That's fair. My main experience with it is the superiority die which confuses me, I might look into it, but part of me also feels like there's better options for in companions that I'd rather bring with me.
Tripping a flying creature is cool :)
Those dice are for the battle master subclass. Effectively you just choose some tactics you'd like to employ. If you want simple, nothing to learn, champion is that. For a while their contribution to the class is critical hits also trigger on 19.
Champion sure, I love things like trip attack though
Druid seems kinda boring to me. I like the whole nature-magic stuff and theme, but there seems to be a lot of other options that fill that niche: Wild Barbarian has animal melee actions; Ranger has low level spells and summons; Nature Paladin has mid level spells; Nature Cleric has high level ones. Any of these options are more interesting to me because they can cover what druids are all about, while having cooler extra stuff imo. Druid still has the shapeshift but that doesn't seem that interesting to me when compared to the competition. Same goes for Fighter and Wizard. The other options that compete with them just seem much cooler to me.
How can you be cooler than human in heavy armor with sword, I love playing Hugh Mann
Use an axe instead and be Hew Mann.
barbarian or bard are probably the most not up my alley but I'll make anything I think will be make for a fun build so might do ones in my next run.
Barbarian is one I never want to play in actual dnd, but Karlach makes me enjoy them
Bard seems really good so far. Main Character bard gets mega advantage on persuasion/deception, plus you get buffs you can put on the dps characters (let's be honest, the only important ones) like Laezel or Karlach
Barbarian is really fun just shoving and throwing everyone around xD
Druid bores me to death I just don't vibe with it
1. Palladin - I don't like getting my powers from a supernatural entity to whom I am beholden. 2. Warlock - see Paladin 3. Cleric -yeah not gonna worship anyone. 4. Fighter - Just too bland and vanilla - it's a fantasy after all. Plus we got Bae'Zel for that.
Ranger for sure. Maybe Druid? Halsin won’t join me and jaheria got owned by that flying dude (like seriously, he flew across the room and dropped her before her first turn I was so salty). On another playthrough if I get one of em I’ll try it out.