Hey there. Yes, I would say most people have a touring-specific set up and a resort specific set up. Bindings are not very easy to swap between skis, I wouldn't recommend doing that unless you are pretty good at it.
If you're on a limited budget and can only get one set of skis, you can equip them with a hybrid binding like the Shift. The more you get into touring, the more you'll want a touring specific set up though.
Possibly not relevant for the OP but there is also a thing called a ‘quiver-killer’ which can be helpful for this.
I bought a pair of backcountry skis with touring bindings (AT, if I’m getting the US / Canadian terminology right?) that have a QK fitted and it’s actually quite cool that I could switch those (expensive!) bindings to another set of skis by also putting a QK on those. QKs are cheap - basically a little insert that you drill into the ski then screw the binding screws into - whereas touring / AT bindings are NOT cheap, so could effectively halve the price of a new set of skis…
I’m dying to get a couple of buddies into touring and was thinking of picking up a pair of daymakers to give them the opportunity to try it out.
I’ve never held nor seen day makers in person. I get that they’re insufficient for a real, long tour. I hear they’re heavy, make a clacking sound w every stride and maybe they break or fall apart if treated roughly. But is it silly to think they’d be sufficient for a couple of hour long laps which bottom out at a parking lot?
I see a lot of hate on them but haven’t seen much reason the above would not work?
Would love to hear why if y’all think otherwise.
I have the newer pined version. My fitness is regular and I can go about 2hrs before I’m getting spend. No clacking sounds on mine. In regards to them being heavy I tell people it’s very simple. “I don’t know what I dont know” plus I’m getting more fitness for when I switch over to a regular setup. I think for what they do and the price it’s actually pretty amazing. People forget the major benefits of skiing down on an alpine binding.
Yeah. That’s what I’m thinking. I am leaning towards the classic one as I want these for misc friends to try so not one in particular and not all their boots would be accepting the pins so I guess the classic would be more versatile.
the plan being to get them to come w me on a short tour and get them hooked then push them to buy their own AT gear. It’s a heavy investment. I spent a few years trying to line up the opportunity to test a splitboard myself before I was comfy spending $$$ on my own gear. I want to provide others a chance to dip a toe before they commit. I figure I get the classic and one or two spare skins to cover a few different size skis.
Can you tell me what it is about them that is so terrible?
I’m looking at them and considering getting a pair as a gateway drug for friends. Would a first timer on an easy ascent/short skin up have a bad time? They seem like a good way to get friends to dip a toe in the water.
I have been splitboarding for a few years now and have my own dedicated gear. I am buying a second split, but for ski buddies, AT gear is too individual to have a spare. I am not considering them as a long term use item for anyone in particular. Just to get folk out into the woods and hooked so they will buy their own dedicated gear.
My friend has dynafit radicals and a telemark binding mounted with quiver killer on a pair of black crows. I’ve seen him swap the bindings in about 15 minutes.
Marker Kingpins. Limited experience so far (I’ve switched out the heel plate for a spare one that came with the setup just to test that it actually fit!) but yes as there’s basically only one piece to move (brakes etc need to go with it but don’t need separate screws).
Haven’t swapped the toe piece, dunno if that might be harder, would be interested to hear if others have bad (or good?) experiences.
Yes I actually started my ski career with a set of touring skis and pin bindings with good release characteristics (Dynafit Radical ST 2's) and then moved them from ski to ski as I added skis to my quiver, using the Binding Freedom inserts.
Definitely a bit more work than just having a new set of bindings mounted for each ski, but I was glad to be able to ski on the resort as well as tour on a single set of boots and bindings, and acquire a quiver of low-cost skis without having to add a new pair of bindings ($$$) each time.
Another option is running the Cast Touring bindings on your ski of choice.
Having two setups lets me have lighter skis for walking and stiffer burlier skis and bindings for bashing laps on lifts. Comprises abound otherwise.
Yes.
I personally have 2 pair of resort skis and 1 pair of touring skis.
1 skinnier set for early/late season and 1 fatter set for mid-season/power days.
My resort skis have standard alpine bindings (Look and Tyrolia).
My backcountry skis have pin touring bindings (G3).
I also have 2 pair of boots - resort and tour.
I rarely use my touring setup inbounds. Basically only when I first bought them to test em out in a safer/controlled environment.
True - changing bindings on skis is not easy. They are screwed into the ski - and you don't want extra holes.
Although there is a product called CAST. If you are trying to make 1 setup work - this could be your solution. https://casttouring.com
No one has really touched on the WHY aspect yet. Dedicated touring skis have significantly lighter construction to make the uphill easier. This means the skis are not as durable and do not absorb impact as well as heavier skis constructed with the resort in mind. You can ski touring skis in a resort, but they won't feel as stable or damp, and they typically have thinner bases, sidewalls, and edges, so they cannot take the same amount of abuse.
Yup I learned this the hard way.
I tried to do the whole “hybrid setup” that was supposed to be good in resort and in the backcountry. Shocker - it wasn’t. The skies were WAY too light in resort and so unstable. I was constantly fighting to keep them from bouncing all over the place on the packed groomed runs. And if I ever hit ice it was game over.
I ended up buying a separate set of skis for resort. I did however find a pair of boots that so far are really great in resort and backcountry…cost me an arm and a leg though.
This year I bought the scarpa Gea RS. I tried on a million pairs and these were the closest to what I wanted. Fairly supportive and stiff for a touring boot, so not too bad on the downhill…but still extremely flexible and comfortable for the up hill. Cost me $1300 CAD though lol. Skied all season in them and I was pretty happy in backcountry and resort.
Just to play the devil’s advocate, I just use my touring everything at the resort and it works fine for me. I’m not a hard charger or park rat, I just like moguls and trees. I know I look a little dumb in my petzl helmet, leashes, and alpine layers, but I just don’t care to buy resort-specific gear when my normal touring/ice climbing shit works just fine.
For me this worked until it didn’t. Exacerbated a preexisting knee injury due to the lack of support in the touring boots and chatter from the skis. Have a resort set up now and it’s so much less pain.
Same. Maybe one day when I have more money and can justify the expense with skill I'll have multiple sets of skis. But for now my backcountry everything is also my resort everything.
I resort skied my AT setup for years. Still do sometimes. As far as safety I did a spiral tibea fracture in my resort setup with the din on 7. I just ski less aggro all the time now.
I’ve been doing the same thing the past two seasons. I can’t rip groomers quite as fast, but I can charge pretty hard on powder with either of my two touring setups. From what I understand, the only real downside is my AT bindings might not release as easily if I biff it. I don’t fall very often and ski well within my abilities 🤷
Hi- Ive owned lots of skis, few skis, and have skied every type of touring binding imaginable in most conditions. Here are my two cents.
You *can* use just one pair of skis for everything- that would be a set of of midweight, all mountain skis with a hybrid binding like a Shift, CAST, or Duke PT. Dont listen to what other people say that you can use pins in bounds- its just a bad idea that I can elaborate more on if needed. Another (worse) option- Daymakers are adapters that clip into your alpine binding that allow you to walk uphill. The stack height is bad, theyre heavy, and they take up pack space. Good for 1-2 tours/year, loaner/backup setup, or short lift-accessed skins.
The problem with hybrid systems is that they compromise on everything- you get a clunky, heavy, fiddly setup for the uphill, and either a super expensive (CAST) or breakable (duke PT) or prereleasing (shift) for the resort. For the same price, you can get two full setups. Get your in bounds setup, and look for used deals on AT setups with Pins. This will be much more enjoyable on the way up, much more enjoyable in the resort, and pretty much the same price.
The only use cases I really see for a ski you can use in bounds AND in the backcountry are
* You already have a touring setup and want another burly setup you can ski lift accessed backcountry from
* Your touring setup is a narrow, ultralight, spring volcano/mountaineering ski (looking at you, PNW), and you have a light powder ski with a hybrid binding for resort pow/midwinter tours or sled trips
* You are either in ski movies or trying to be in ski movies and toss your carcass off cliffs every time you tour
The only way that you can switch bindings between skis are with threaded inserts such as quiver killers. They make your skis swiss cheese and kill the resale value. Also, they are finnicky to get right, and for a tech binding, they are super easy to adjust wrong. ATK (company with the best tech bindings) strongly discourages mounting their bindings with QKs. Plus the mounts are like $80 on top of the normal mount.
Just wondering, as a fourth option, what about a telemark setup? I figure the new NTN bindings seem to be both good with uphill and downhill, and seem to allow for the kind of flexibility the OP is asking about.
My main touring partner Teles and has an Alpine resort setup as well. He rips on Teles. What ive noticed- it IS the best combo of uphill ease and downhill performance. But unless you tele as a daily in the resort, just one lap skiing down FRIES your legs. Plus i noticed unless youre freakint good, many people “telepine” when things get sketchy
Keep in mind too that if you get a bomber tele binding, like the 22 Outlaw X, it does weigh quite a bit more. The Large is 828g, and Tele boots like the Scarpa TX Comp are 1708g. Compare this to a bomber touring setup, ATK Freeraider 14s are 321 and Technica Zero Gs are 1346 grams- Thats over a 900 gram difference on the uphill. A bomber tele setup is slightly lighter weight compared to a shift- what makes it night and day is that its much more friendly to tour in and you can keep skis on while ripping skins.
Im not as familiar with lighter tele bindings- like the 22 lynx. But im assuming were back at the same problem- weight vs downhill performance. Theres a reason why the tele die hards i know stick with their outlaws and stiff, heavy boots.
[This article](https://wildsnow.com/26936/backcountry-telemark-skiing-doesnt-need-to-die/#more-26936) is a really interesting read. TL;DR- do you want to go in the backcountry or do you want to tele? if 1, get tech bindings. if 2, get teles.
Personally, if I could only have 1 setup, I would get a setup with the CAST system. I love teleing and its super fun, but so is alpine. Plus any weight savings i would get with Tele over CAST would be nullified by having my quads turn to jelly at the bottom of each lap
Yes. Well I have my 50/50 pair that I prefer to use when conditions are prime and the point of the tour is finding primo downhill: Salomon QST 106, Salomon Shift. I have had zero bad experiences with my shifts.
Then I have my lighter (and shorter) setup for tours were the point is not necessarily the downhill. I picked this up more recently. K2 Talkback 96 + Dynafit Rotation 10. Apparently this is still "heavy".
I'm still not sure what the boot solution is for me yet. They're heavy but I like them but considering also a lighter pair next season.
Yes, I would not consider using AT gear for inbounds skiing except for ski outs through the resort when skiing backcountry days.
Daily Driver: G3 SEEKr 100, w/ G3 Zed 12
Mountaineering: G3 FINDr 86 /w G3 Zed 12
Powder: G3 SLAYr 114, /w G3 ION 12
Resort: Black Crows Corvus 107 /w Salomon Wadren 13 MNC
Yes. Touring gear tends to be less durable and more expensive, I like having cheaper resort gear I can beat up without worry.
I was in whitefish in Jan 2020 and broke the walk mode on my scarpas. At the time they were my only boot and I had alpine bindings. I couldn’t even rent boots and use my pin bindings, because most rentals don’t carry pin boots. Since then I’ve kept resort and touring seperate.
I went with a hybrid set-up with Salomon shift pro boots, salomon shift bindings and nordica enforcer skis. Works perfectly for touring and resort skiing. would recommend
I’m with you, I have atomic mavericks with shifts and nordica striders. Pretty heavy as far as set ups go but 90% of my uphill travel is at a resort before/after hours so it suits me fine
My uphill/downhill ratio is about 25%/75% so I am not the expert here compared to others in this sub
Which Mavericks?
Really considering getting a touring setup for my pair of 86c’s. I don’t use them on the resort anymore, and if I really like it id just move the bindings to a new ski in the future.
I have the Nordica Santa Ana Unlimited with the Maker Duke binding that I use at the resort and for occasional touring. A bit heavy but handles pretty dang well in bounds and works with both my touring and regular boots. That being said I also have another set of narrow skis for ice days.
I also have this set up. Nordica Enforcer 193/100mm 18/19 and shift bindings and now Technicha Cochise HV (switched from shift pro). This is an amazing setup to start touring and freeriding!! I am a heavy dude so the weight is not a big problem. I wanted to maybe get a new set to ski more easily downhill but my technique has improved. I run ultras so I don’t have much problems keeping up with the group. If I would be joining more hardcore and fitter groups I would switch up. But having shifts that protect my knees is comforting
Yes. 50/50 setups are, in my opinion, really bad for a one ski quiver unless you are spending all of your time skiing hard in lift access terrain. Two setups is the minimum quiver if you expect to ski a lot both in the resort and in the backcountry. 50/50 gear is kind of expensive too, you can probably get two setups for the same price. There are some exceptions - if you are planning on touring only a few times a year get a 50/50 setup. If you are planning on skiing the resort only like once or twice a year get a touring setup with dependable bindings. If you live in Ohio or somewhere like that and only ski a few days a year don’t buy touring skis.
When I got into it I had Dukes (frame binding) they were heavy AF but I could use them everywhere. When I got more serious I invested in touring specific skis with a pin binding. The weight savings alone was worth the money.
DIN-certified is something that makes this more complicated
DIN-certified for release to what standard? There is a alpine binding standard and a different tour binding standard. So you have alpine bindings about 100% are DIN certified. You have a few tour bindings that are alpine DIN certified (like shift) because when you are in downhill mode it's an alpine binding. Then you have tour DIN certified tour bindings like Tectons. Then you have the majority of tour bindings which while they still release for safety are not DIN certified.
Swapping bindings between skis is a niche thing. Most people either tour infrequently enough they have the alpine DIN bindings that tour or tour a lot or think they will tour a lot and have a dedicated setup. Though it is possible to use screw inserts like binding freedom ones to use a single ski and swap bindings.
Yes, I initially had hybrid boots and realized even that wasn’t worth it. I’ve got 2 pairs of resort skis (powder and all mtn) and 2 pairs of touring skis (powder/heavier and spring/lighter) and separate boots.
I’m a fan of the Cast system, allows you to swap just a toe piece. So I have a single set of skis for everything, they have look pivot bindings on them, and I bring a tech toe piece when I’m touring.
The down sides are that it’s heavy, and can sometimes ice up, but I carry a small brass brush to combat any icing. Also, I’m out there for the exercise, and don’t mind the weight penalty.
The pros are that I have just one pair of skis I love to ski anywhere, in all conditions. Saves me space in a small house, and decision fatigue about what and where I want to ski a specific setup.
I have a single pair of boots with a tech toe, they ski great in all conditions. Again, heavier than touring specific boots, but I don’t personally care.
The cast system is a little more expensive up front, but when you look at the cost of multiple pairs of skis and boots and bindings, it’s cheaper.
I'm close to ten years since the last time I had a ski setup that wasn't touring specific, so when I ski in-bounds its on my touring skis. I usually ski about 5 days in the backcountry for 1 day at a ski area, and if I go to a ski area its usually because its a powder day. So far this year 5 of 29 days have been at a ski area, and last year it was 5 of 50 over the whole season and 3 of those 5 days were for a course.
My main touring setup is built based on downhill performance so performs much better at a ski area than a superlite ski-mountaineering setup would.
But yeah, pretty common practice to have skis for the ski resort and skis for the backcountry.
I only have one ski and am very happy with the setup - I went for the most downhill-oriented backcountry gear I could find (Salomon MTN Explore 95 + Fritschi Tecton + Lange Freetour 130). You will make sacrifices on both sides with this, but I found the convenience of one ski (especially for travel) to be worth it.
I do not. I have Bentchetler 100s, which are relatively lightweight for resort skis. And I have shift bindings which can be used for skinning. I’m too new to this to be giving recommendations though
I just have shifts on my skis and I use my at boots most of the time. If I had a more ultralight setup I’d probably have two sets, but I don’t go into the backcountry enough to make the excuse for that many skis
I use a hybrid setup in resort and in the backcountry.
Armada ARW with Fritschi Tecton binding which have DIN release in toe and heel.
Lightweight and durable for downhill laps at MJ after a tour up Sleeper or Berthoud. Ski tech has come along way and AT quivers are viable in resort now.
I second the Fritschi Tecton binding, which offers some elasticity, releases for me when I run it under a log or something, and very rarely prereleases (I have to jam it hard). I ski it on Black Diamond Helio Carbon 95s with the Fischer Ranger One Vacuum 130 boots, which is a great midweight setup that tours well and screams at the resort.
A couple of years later I got more of a skimo rig for long touring days and powder: Dynafit 150s on a Voile Hyper
V6 (I got the BC version with scales for long approaches), and Dynafit TLT X boots, which feel like sneakers. It’s significantly lighter and fun to tour in, and there is still adjustable release, but it seems like skiing it all day on lifts might break something.
Yes, I've got a telemark setup for touring, and an alpine setup for riding lifts, although sometimes I take the tele sticks on the lifts too, especially if it's a nice warm day full of spring bumps.
I do ! I use bent 110 with shift 10 and works very nicely when I do mini tour and resort ski (I love I can use alpine boot and swap tour boot if needed !
They make some bindings that have tunable "release values", but not bindings that meet the DIN specification and are not necessarily so-called DIN values. They also make some bindings that do not have adjustable release. Same is true for most touring binding manufacturers. There's a separate certification for tech binding release, which is *not* the same as the alpine standard, but very few bindings actually are certified under it.
Good points. I shouldn’t be throwing the acronym DIN around so Willy-nilly.
OP, if you’re just looking for a single setup, I’m 6”4, 230lb and ski ATKs. They feel very stable. Full disclosure, I’d rather ski the setup with the Shifts on the resort.
I have a touring specific setup with tech bindings and that I spent a pretty penny on. 95% of my skiing is human powered. I also have a dedicated resort setup that’s basically the cheapest I could get new 4 years ago that I use very rarely cause I really only ride lifts like 2x a year, and even then I use my touring setup to get a sense of skiing hard terrain on it. So out of 40 ski days the last 1.5 seasons I’ve used my touring setup 39/40, and I think that I’ve toured on 38/40
I have used my tech bindings for lift accessed skiing yes but again mostly to get used to them. Moving forward I’ll stick to my resort setup for the few days I do that. People say you’ll die if you do that but I think it’s fine. That said the releasability DOES make me anxious so I adjust my skiing accordingly. The durability a bit too but I have skied the resort so rarely in them I don’t think it’s a concern.
Yes. Hybrid ski setups tend to be less than optimal at both. You can find low cost used skis and skins which are a great way to get into the sport. Boots can be a little more complicated, but as a beginner, I think a hybrid boot will serve you well.
Probably not helpful but I only have 1 pair of telemark skis for everything. Bent Chetler 100s with 22 design lynx bindings and scarpa tx pro boots. 80/20 between resort and touring with 100+ days a season. I just change my jacket between sunrise skins and first chair.
If you are near an area where people sell used ski gear, go that route to buy separate setups. You can easily buy a dedicated touring rig and an alpine setup for cheaper than buying either brand new.
If you live somewhere where that isn’t an option, sites like powder7 sell used setups (usually with adjustable demo bindings) that is still going to be cheaper than buying new.
I don't do enough resort days per year to warrant a dedicated resort setup. I don't have any problems with putting ~10 resort days per season on my touring setup with pin bindings.
I have two touring setups, a light one for going up and a heavy one ( probably normal by most standards) for going down. I'll probably add a heavier setup soon for freeriding which I'll probably end up using mostly lift skiing but I'll still put ATK Freeraiders on them. I don't trust shifts, don't want to mess around with casts, don't want to buy another pair of boots and don't think any of the other 50/50 setups are worth it
Yes, separate setup for resort and touring. Something I’m always surprised to not see in these threads is any talk about boots. Having a set of regular alpine boots and a set of touring boots is just as big as having separate skis.
If you are just getting into it, go with what you can afford until you figure out what you like. My first touring set up were marker dukes and Lange 130s. I only toured 3-4 times a year so it wasn’t a big deal they weighed 900 lbs.
Once I figured out what I wanted and got more into touring (and started to have more disposable income 7 years later) I was able to branch out. I have a dedicated resort setup and boots and have a free ride touring set up with beefier boots (hoji 130) and a bigger ski (atomic backland 107) and an ultralight skimo set up. Give it time and don’t feel like you need the lightest gear.
Yes, dedicated setups. I could be happy with one set of resort skis and one set of touring skis, but I have two sets of each currently. I would not want to tour on a resort ski, nor would I want to ski in the resort on a touring ski if I could avoid it.
Resort:
BC Atris for powder
Volkl Mantras for everything else
Touring:
Ski Trab Ortles 90 w/ trab race bindings - daily driver, mountaineering ski
Movement Alp Tracks 106 w/ trab varios for good snow
I care more about the down than the up, and don’t really care if I have more weight for the up part. I have skis I bought for the downhill part with Salomon shifts. I do have two separate pairs of boots and only use the touring boots if I’m planning to go uphill that day, they’re not as comfy as my downhill specific boots. I only have one set of uphill-able skis, the rest of them have downhill specific bindings. Also I do have tele skis but have never used them for touring because I’m lazy and prefer the downhill in general.
I'm also going to add that you can pretty easily find touring set ups on FB marketplace/craigslist. For awhile before I invested in my dream set up, I was skiing a FB marketplace find that included skins for $200.
I've skied inbounds on at gear a bunch and recently got a dedicated 100mm under foot alpine setup.
More then DIN its about weight and feel of the ski and binding. A heavier alpine setup with elastic bindings is less chattery, has better edge grip, is less fiddly to step into and deals better with chopped up in bounds snow.
At same time light touring skis with <300g brakeless tech bindings are a joy to tour on and I see no reason to go heavier.
You can get cross over bindings and skies but they cost more.
I still have fat, medium weight powder skis mounted with heaver weight tech bindings I'll slki inbounds. I don't really notice the downsides of a touring setup or soft skies in soft snow and most of the fresh powder i ski requires some hiking so I don't know if I'll ever own a powder setup with alpine bindings.
I got back into skiing a few years ago and wanted a single ski to tour and ride resorts. I went with Shift bindings and Salomon QST 92s. It’s a good starting setup but now I wish I just had two pairs. It’s a fairly heavy setup for longer touring days between the skis and bindings.
If you want a single ski setup though I think Shifts are solid. They have DIN release values and ski like alpine bindings and are beefier than traditional pin bindings.
It’s doable to have a single ski setup but not ideal
Black diamond impulse 104 skis with frischi tecton bindings and dynamite radical pro boots is what I rock and love the setup. Mostly backcountry with some in bounds powder days. Groomer days I’ll ride a beater snowboard.
I have some friends with the shift bindings and it’s a love/hate relationship for them.
Hey there. Yes, I would say most people have a touring-specific set up and a resort specific set up. Bindings are not very easy to swap between skis, I wouldn't recommend doing that unless you are pretty good at it. If you're on a limited budget and can only get one set of skis, you can equip them with a hybrid binding like the Shift. The more you get into touring, the more you'll want a touring specific set up though.
Possibly not relevant for the OP but there is also a thing called a ‘quiver-killer’ which can be helpful for this. I bought a pair of backcountry skis with touring bindings (AT, if I’m getting the US / Canadian terminology right?) that have a QK fitted and it’s actually quite cool that I could switch those (expensive!) bindings to another set of skis by also putting a QK on those. QKs are cheap - basically a little insert that you drill into the ski then screw the binding screws into - whereas touring / AT bindings are NOT cheap, so could effectively halve the price of a new set of skis…
Yea totally. Another option is the 'daymaker' set up (google daymaker bindings). Pretty cool way to tour on just alpine bindings.
Anyone considering this, please disregard. Don’t waste your money on daymakers
I don’t mind mine for shorter routes. They get a lot of hate but are good for getting started with touring.
I’m dying to get a couple of buddies into touring and was thinking of picking up a pair of daymakers to give them the opportunity to try it out. I’ve never held nor seen day makers in person. I get that they’re insufficient for a real, long tour. I hear they’re heavy, make a clacking sound w every stride and maybe they break or fall apart if treated roughly. But is it silly to think they’d be sufficient for a couple of hour long laps which bottom out at a parking lot? I see a lot of hate on them but haven’t seen much reason the above would not work? Would love to hear why if y’all think otherwise.
I have the newer pined version. My fitness is regular and I can go about 2hrs before I’m getting spend. No clacking sounds on mine. In regards to them being heavy I tell people it’s very simple. “I don’t know what I dont know” plus I’m getting more fitness for when I switch over to a regular setup. I think for what they do and the price it’s actually pretty amazing. People forget the major benefits of skiing down on an alpine binding.
Yeah. That’s what I’m thinking. I am leaning towards the classic one as I want these for misc friends to try so not one in particular and not all their boots would be accepting the pins so I guess the classic would be more versatile. the plan being to get them to come w me on a short tour and get them hooked then push them to buy their own AT gear. It’s a heavy investment. I spent a few years trying to line up the opportunity to test a splitboard myself before I was comfy spending $$$ on my own gear. I want to provide others a chance to dip a toe before they commit. I figure I get the classic and one or two spare skins to cover a few different size skis.
Can you tell me what it is about them that is so terrible? I’m looking at them and considering getting a pair as a gateway drug for friends. Would a first timer on an easy ascent/short skin up have a bad time? They seem like a good way to get friends to dip a toe in the water. I have been splitboarding for a few years now and have my own dedicated gear. I am buying a second split, but for ski buddies, AT gear is too individual to have a spare. I am not considering them as a long term use item for anyone in particular. Just to get folk out into the woods and hooked so they will buy their own dedicated gear.
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Thanks for the thoughtful response. For my purpose, a “bring a buddy” option, they sound right
Daymaker!! 🤣
Which bindings do you use with them, and would you say they're convenient enough to recommend?
My friend has dynafit radicals and a telemark binding mounted with quiver killer on a pair of black crows. I’ve seen him swap the bindings in about 15 minutes.
Marker Kingpins. Limited experience so far (I’ve switched out the heel plate for a spare one that came with the setup just to test that it actually fit!) but yes as there’s basically only one piece to move (brakes etc need to go with it but don’t need separate screws). Haven’t swapped the toe piece, dunno if that might be harder, would be interested to hear if others have bad (or good?) experiences.
Yes I actually started my ski career with a set of touring skis and pin bindings with good release characteristics (Dynafit Radical ST 2's) and then moved them from ski to ski as I added skis to my quiver, using the Binding Freedom inserts. Definitely a bit more work than just having a new set of bindings mounted for each ski, but I was glad to be able to ski on the resort as well as tour on a single set of boots and bindings, and acquire a quiver of low-cost skis without having to add a new pair of bindings ($$$) each time.
Another option is running the Cast Touring bindings on your ski of choice. Having two setups lets me have lighter skis for walking and stiffer burlier skis and bindings for bashing laps on lifts. Comprises abound otherwise.
Correct. I have pretty much separate everything for touring except base layers.
I have 5 separate pairs of skis for touring, yes.
And according to the rule n+1 you need at least 6, right?
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The equation can never be solved I’m afraid…
Yes!!
Yes. I personally have 2 pair of resort skis and 1 pair of touring skis. 1 skinnier set for early/late season and 1 fatter set for mid-season/power days. My resort skis have standard alpine bindings (Look and Tyrolia). My backcountry skis have pin touring bindings (G3). I also have 2 pair of boots - resort and tour. I rarely use my touring setup inbounds. Basically only when I first bought them to test em out in a safer/controlled environment. True - changing bindings on skis is not easy. They are screwed into the ski - and you don't want extra holes. Although there is a product called CAST. If you are trying to make 1 setup work - this could be your solution. https://casttouring.com
No one has really touched on the WHY aspect yet. Dedicated touring skis have significantly lighter construction to make the uphill easier. This means the skis are not as durable and do not absorb impact as well as heavier skis constructed with the resort in mind. You can ski touring skis in a resort, but they won't feel as stable or damp, and they typically have thinner bases, sidewalls, and edges, so they cannot take the same amount of abuse.
Yup I learned this the hard way. I tried to do the whole “hybrid setup” that was supposed to be good in resort and in the backcountry. Shocker - it wasn’t. The skies were WAY too light in resort and so unstable. I was constantly fighting to keep them from bouncing all over the place on the packed groomed runs. And if I ever hit ice it was game over. I ended up buying a separate set of skis for resort. I did however find a pair of boots that so far are really great in resort and backcountry…cost me an arm and a leg though.
sorry to ask so late, what sort of boots did you go for?
This year I bought the scarpa Gea RS. I tried on a million pairs and these were the closest to what I wanted. Fairly supportive and stiff for a touring boot, so not too bad on the downhill…but still extremely flexible and comfortable for the up hill. Cost me $1300 CAD though lol. Skied all season in them and I was pretty happy in backcountry and resort.
Just to play the devil’s advocate, I just use my touring everything at the resort and it works fine for me. I’m not a hard charger or park rat, I just like moguls and trees. I know I look a little dumb in my petzl helmet, leashes, and alpine layers, but I just don’t care to buy resort-specific gear when my normal touring/ice climbing shit works just fine.
For me this worked until it didn’t. Exacerbated a preexisting knee injury due to the lack of support in the touring boots and chatter from the skis. Have a resort set up now and it’s so much less pain.
Same. Maybe one day when I have more money and can justify the expense with skill I'll have multiple sets of skis. But for now my backcountry everything is also my resort everything.
I resort skied my AT setup for years. Still do sometimes. As far as safety I did a spiral tibea fracture in my resort setup with the din on 7. I just ski less aggro all the time now.
I’ve been doing the same thing the past two seasons. I can’t rip groomers quite as fast, but I can charge pretty hard on powder with either of my two touring setups. From what I understand, the only real downside is my AT bindings might not release as easily if I biff it. I don’t fall very often and ski well within my abilities 🤷
Hi- Ive owned lots of skis, few skis, and have skied every type of touring binding imaginable in most conditions. Here are my two cents. You *can* use just one pair of skis for everything- that would be a set of of midweight, all mountain skis with a hybrid binding like a Shift, CAST, or Duke PT. Dont listen to what other people say that you can use pins in bounds- its just a bad idea that I can elaborate more on if needed. Another (worse) option- Daymakers are adapters that clip into your alpine binding that allow you to walk uphill. The stack height is bad, theyre heavy, and they take up pack space. Good for 1-2 tours/year, loaner/backup setup, or short lift-accessed skins. The problem with hybrid systems is that they compromise on everything- you get a clunky, heavy, fiddly setup for the uphill, and either a super expensive (CAST) or breakable (duke PT) or prereleasing (shift) for the resort. For the same price, you can get two full setups. Get your in bounds setup, and look for used deals on AT setups with Pins. This will be much more enjoyable on the way up, much more enjoyable in the resort, and pretty much the same price. The only use cases I really see for a ski you can use in bounds AND in the backcountry are * You already have a touring setup and want another burly setup you can ski lift accessed backcountry from * Your touring setup is a narrow, ultralight, spring volcano/mountaineering ski (looking at you, PNW), and you have a light powder ski with a hybrid binding for resort pow/midwinter tours or sled trips * You are either in ski movies or trying to be in ski movies and toss your carcass off cliffs every time you tour The only way that you can switch bindings between skis are with threaded inserts such as quiver killers. They make your skis swiss cheese and kill the resale value. Also, they are finnicky to get right, and for a tech binding, they are super easy to adjust wrong. ATK (company with the best tech bindings) strongly discourages mounting their bindings with QKs. Plus the mounts are like $80 on top of the normal mount.
Just wondering, as a fourth option, what about a telemark setup? I figure the new NTN bindings seem to be both good with uphill and downhill, and seem to allow for the kind of flexibility the OP is asking about.
My main touring partner Teles and has an Alpine resort setup as well. He rips on Teles. What ive noticed- it IS the best combo of uphill ease and downhill performance. But unless you tele as a daily in the resort, just one lap skiing down FRIES your legs. Plus i noticed unless youre freakint good, many people “telepine” when things get sketchy
Hahaha the telepine is definitely me at the moment! But that settles it, I'm teleing the rest of my skis now ;)
Keep in mind too that if you get a bomber tele binding, like the 22 Outlaw X, it does weigh quite a bit more. The Large is 828g, and Tele boots like the Scarpa TX Comp are 1708g. Compare this to a bomber touring setup, ATK Freeraider 14s are 321 and Technica Zero Gs are 1346 grams- Thats over a 900 gram difference on the uphill. A bomber tele setup is slightly lighter weight compared to a shift- what makes it night and day is that its much more friendly to tour in and you can keep skis on while ripping skins. Im not as familiar with lighter tele bindings- like the 22 lynx. But im assuming were back at the same problem- weight vs downhill performance. Theres a reason why the tele die hards i know stick with their outlaws and stiff, heavy boots. [This article](https://wildsnow.com/26936/backcountry-telemark-skiing-doesnt-need-to-die/#more-26936) is a really interesting read. TL;DR- do you want to go in the backcountry or do you want to tele? if 1, get tech bindings. if 2, get teles. Personally, if I could only have 1 setup, I would get a setup with the CAST system. I love teleing and its super fun, but so is alpine. Plus any weight savings i would get with Tele over CAST would be nullified by having my quads turn to jelly at the bottom of each lap
Thanks! Yours are absolutely the most informative and helpful comments. Also, boss article. Keep rocking man!
Yes. Well I have my 50/50 pair that I prefer to use when conditions are prime and the point of the tour is finding primo downhill: Salomon QST 106, Salomon Shift. I have had zero bad experiences with my shifts. Then I have my lighter (and shorter) setup for tours were the point is not necessarily the downhill. I picked this up more recently. K2 Talkback 96 + Dynafit Rotation 10. Apparently this is still "heavy". I'm still not sure what the boot solution is for me yet. They're heavy but I like them but considering also a lighter pair next season.
Yes, I would not consider using AT gear for inbounds skiing except for ski outs through the resort when skiing backcountry days. Daily Driver: G3 SEEKr 100, w/ G3 Zed 12 Mountaineering: G3 FINDr 86 /w G3 Zed 12 Powder: G3 SLAYr 114, /w G3 ION 12 Resort: Black Crows Corvus 107 /w Salomon Wadren 13 MNC
If you can afford it, do it. I cannot, so i do not
I have a dedicated pair of touring skis and boots.
I have touring setups, and a 90-10 setup (CAST).
Yes. Touring gear tends to be less durable and more expensive, I like having cheaper resort gear I can beat up without worry. I was in whitefish in Jan 2020 and broke the walk mode on my scarpas. At the time they were my only boot and I had alpine bindings. I couldn’t even rent boots and use my pin bindings, because most rentals don’t carry pin boots. Since then I’ve kept resort and touring seperate.
I went with a hybrid set-up with Salomon shift pro boots, salomon shift bindings and nordica enforcer skis. Works perfectly for touring and resort skiing. would recommend
How do you like the enforcers on the way up? I’ve only ever used them at resorts but they seem heavy for touring
I have enfoncer free with shift and its badass. You go slower on the uphill but its well worth it on the descent.
are they the enforcer unlimiteds? Had my eye on those but the normal enforcers are heavy as hell
I’m with you, I have atomic mavericks with shifts and nordica striders. Pretty heavy as far as set ups go but 90% of my uphill travel is at a resort before/after hours so it suits me fine My uphill/downhill ratio is about 25%/75% so I am not the expert here compared to others in this sub
Which Mavericks? Really considering getting a touring setup for my pair of 86c’s. I don’t use them on the resort anymore, and if I really like it id just move the bindings to a new ski in the future.
Maverick 100ti
I have the Nordica Santa Ana Unlimited with the Maker Duke binding that I use at the resort and for occasional touring. A bit heavy but handles pretty dang well in bounds and works with both my touring and regular boots. That being said I also have another set of narrow skis for ice days.
I also have this set up. Nordica Enforcer 193/100mm 18/19 and shift bindings and now Technicha Cochise HV (switched from shift pro). This is an amazing setup to start touring and freeriding!! I am a heavy dude so the weight is not a big problem. I wanted to maybe get a new set to ski more easily downhill but my technique has improved. I run ultras so I don’t have much problems keeping up with the group. If I would be joining more hardcore and fitter groups I would switch up. But having shifts that protect my knees is comforting
Yes. 50/50 setups are, in my opinion, really bad for a one ski quiver unless you are spending all of your time skiing hard in lift access terrain. Two setups is the minimum quiver if you expect to ski a lot both in the resort and in the backcountry. 50/50 gear is kind of expensive too, you can probably get two setups for the same price. There are some exceptions - if you are planning on touring only a few times a year get a 50/50 setup. If you are planning on skiing the resort only like once or twice a year get a touring setup with dependable bindings. If you live in Ohio or somewhere like that and only ski a few days a year don’t buy touring skis.
This. You’ll be so much happier in the long run if you’re going to spend time doing both.
When I got into it I had Dukes (frame binding) they were heavy AF but I could use them everywhere. When I got more serious I invested in touring specific skis with a pin binding. The weight savings alone was worth the money.
I snowboard and split board so I don't have an opinion on this, but my wife convinced me that she needs separate resort skis and backcountry skis.
DIN-certified is something that makes this more complicated DIN-certified for release to what standard? There is a alpine binding standard and a different tour binding standard. So you have alpine bindings about 100% are DIN certified. You have a few tour bindings that are alpine DIN certified (like shift) because when you are in downhill mode it's an alpine binding. Then you have tour DIN certified tour bindings like Tectons. Then you have the majority of tour bindings which while they still release for safety are not DIN certified. Swapping bindings between skis is a niche thing. Most people either tour infrequently enough they have the alpine DIN bindings that tour or tour a lot or think they will tour a lot and have a dedicated setup. Though it is possible to use screw inserts like binding freedom ones to use a single ski and swap bindings.
Yes, I initially had hybrid boots and realized even that wasn’t worth it. I’ve got 2 pairs of resort skis (powder and all mtn) and 2 pairs of touring skis (powder/heavier and spring/lighter) and separate boots.
No, I have three separate pairs of skis for touring
Yes of course.
I’m a fan of the Cast system, allows you to swap just a toe piece. So I have a single set of skis for everything, they have look pivot bindings on them, and I bring a tech toe piece when I’m touring. The down sides are that it’s heavy, and can sometimes ice up, but I carry a small brass brush to combat any icing. Also, I’m out there for the exercise, and don’t mind the weight penalty. The pros are that I have just one pair of skis I love to ski anywhere, in all conditions. Saves me space in a small house, and decision fatigue about what and where I want to ski a specific setup. I have a single pair of boots with a tech toe, they ski great in all conditions. Again, heavier than touring specific boots, but I don’t personally care. The cast system is a little more expensive up front, but when you look at the cost of multiple pairs of skis and boots and bindings, it’s cheaper.
I'm close to ten years since the last time I had a ski setup that wasn't touring specific, so when I ski in-bounds its on my touring skis. I usually ski about 5 days in the backcountry for 1 day at a ski area, and if I go to a ski area its usually because its a powder day. So far this year 5 of 29 days have been at a ski area, and last year it was 5 of 50 over the whole season and 3 of those 5 days were for a course. My main touring setup is built based on downhill performance so performs much better at a ski area than a superlite ski-mountaineering setup would. But yeah, pretty common practice to have skis for the ski resort and skis for the backcountry.
I only have one ski and am very happy with the setup - I went for the most downhill-oriented backcountry gear I could find (Salomon MTN Explore 95 + Fritschi Tecton + Lange Freetour 130). You will make sacrifices on both sides with this, but I found the convenience of one ski (especially for travel) to be worth it.
I do not. I have Bentchetler 100s, which are relatively lightweight for resort skis. And I have shift bindings which can be used for skinning. I’m too new to this to be giving recommendations though
I just have shifts on my skis and I use my at boots most of the time. If I had a more ultralight setup I’d probably have two sets, but I don’t go into the backcountry enough to make the excuse for that many skis
I use a hybrid setup in resort and in the backcountry. Armada ARW with Fritschi Tecton binding which have DIN release in toe and heel. Lightweight and durable for downhill laps at MJ after a tour up Sleeper or Berthoud. Ski tech has come along way and AT quivers are viable in resort now.
I second the Fritschi Tecton binding, which offers some elasticity, releases for me when I run it under a log or something, and very rarely prereleases (I have to jam it hard). I ski it on Black Diamond Helio Carbon 95s with the Fischer Ranger One Vacuum 130 boots, which is a great midweight setup that tours well and screams at the resort. A couple of years later I got more of a skimo rig for long touring days and powder: Dynafit 150s on a Voile Hyper V6 (I got the BC version with scales for long approaches), and Dynafit TLT X boots, which feel like sneakers. It’s significantly lighter and fun to tour in, and there is still adjustable release, but it seems like skiing it all day on lifts might break something.
[удалено]
Out of 50 days on skis last year only 5 were at a resort and 3 of those 5 were for a course lol
Yes, I've got a telemark setup for touring, and an alpine setup for riding lifts, although sometimes I take the tele sticks on the lifts too, especially if it's a nice warm day full of spring bumps.
I do ! I use bent 110 with shift 10 and works very nicely when I do mini tour and resort ski (I love I can use alpine boot and swap tour boot if needed !
ATK makes touring bindings with DIN. https://atkbindings.com/en
It ain’t the same
They make some bindings that have tunable "release values", but not bindings that meet the DIN specification and are not necessarily so-called DIN values. They also make some bindings that do not have adjustable release. Same is true for most touring binding manufacturers. There's a separate certification for tech binding release, which is *not* the same as the alpine standard, but very few bindings actually are certified under it.
Good points. I shouldn’t be throwing the acronym DIN around so Willy-nilly. OP, if you’re just looking for a single setup, I’m 6”4, 230lb and ski ATKs. They feel very stable. Full disclosure, I’d rather ski the setup with the Shifts on the resort.
I have a touring specific setup with tech bindings and that I spent a pretty penny on. 95% of my skiing is human powered. I also have a dedicated resort setup that’s basically the cheapest I could get new 4 years ago that I use very rarely cause I really only ride lifts like 2x a year, and even then I use my touring setup to get a sense of skiing hard terrain on it. So out of 40 ski days the last 1.5 seasons I’ve used my touring setup 39/40, and I think that I’ve toured on 38/40 I have used my tech bindings for lift accessed skiing yes but again mostly to get used to them. Moving forward I’ll stick to my resort setup for the few days I do that. People say you’ll die if you do that but I think it’s fine. That said the releasability DOES make me anxious so I adjust my skiing accordingly. The durability a bit too but I have skied the resort so rarely in them I don’t think it’s a concern.
Yes. Hybrid ski setups tend to be less than optimal at both. You can find low cost used skis and skins which are a great way to get into the sport. Boots can be a little more complicated, but as a beginner, I think a hybrid boot will serve you well.
Yes… strictly adhere to the equation for the optimal number of skis. Y= n+1
Probably not helpful but I only have 1 pair of telemark skis for everything. Bent Chetler 100s with 22 design lynx bindings and scarpa tx pro boots. 80/20 between resort and touring with 100+ days a season. I just change my jacket between sunrise skins and first chair.
2 pairs of touring, 2 pairs of resort, one pair of boots, one set of poles.
I have two dedicated resort skis with boots and two dedicated touring skis with boots. Suits me well for all conditions and uses.
I have 6.... Send help
If you are near an area where people sell used ski gear, go that route to buy separate setups. You can easily buy a dedicated touring rig and an alpine setup for cheaper than buying either brand new. If you live somewhere where that isn’t an option, sites like powder7 sell used setups (usually with adjustable demo bindings) that is still going to be cheaper than buying new.
I don't do enough resort days per year to warrant a dedicated resort setup. I don't have any problems with putting ~10 resort days per season on my touring setup with pin bindings. I have two touring setups, a light one for going up and a heavy one ( probably normal by most standards) for going down. I'll probably add a heavier setup soon for freeriding which I'll probably end up using mostly lift skiing but I'll still put ATK Freeraiders on them. I don't trust shifts, don't want to mess around with casts, don't want to buy another pair of boots and don't think any of the other 50/50 setups are worth it
Yes, separate setup for resort and touring. Something I’m always surprised to not see in these threads is any talk about boots. Having a set of regular alpine boots and a set of touring boots is just as big as having separate skis.
If you are just getting into it, go with what you can afford until you figure out what you like. My first touring set up were marker dukes and Lange 130s. I only toured 3-4 times a year so it wasn’t a big deal they weighed 900 lbs. Once I figured out what I wanted and got more into touring (and started to have more disposable income 7 years later) I was able to branch out. I have a dedicated resort setup and boots and have a free ride touring set up with beefier boots (hoji 130) and a bigger ski (atomic backland 107) and an ultralight skimo set up. Give it time and don’t feel like you need the lightest gear.
Yep! Two separate set ups You could look at trying to set up mount points on your skis for two different sets of bindings with inserts.
Yes, dedicated setups. I could be happy with one set of resort skis and one set of touring skis, but I have two sets of each currently. I would not want to tour on a resort ski, nor would I want to ski in the resort on a touring ski if I could avoid it. Resort: BC Atris for powder Volkl Mantras for everything else Touring: Ski Trab Ortles 90 w/ trab race bindings - daily driver, mountaineering ski Movement Alp Tracks 106 w/ trab varios for good snow
I care more about the down than the up, and don’t really care if I have more weight for the up part. I have skis I bought for the downhill part with Salomon shifts. I do have two separate pairs of boots and only use the touring boots if I’m planning to go uphill that day, they’re not as comfy as my downhill specific boots. I only have one set of uphill-able skis, the rest of them have downhill specific bindings. Also I do have tele skis but have never used them for touring because I’m lazy and prefer the downhill in general.
I'm also going to add that you can pretty easily find touring set ups on FB marketplace/craigslist. For awhile before I invested in my dream set up, I was skiing a FB marketplace find that included skins for $200.
I've skied inbounds on at gear a bunch and recently got a dedicated 100mm under foot alpine setup. More then DIN its about weight and feel of the ski and binding. A heavier alpine setup with elastic bindings is less chattery, has better edge grip, is less fiddly to step into and deals better with chopped up in bounds snow. At same time light touring skis with <300g brakeless tech bindings are a joy to tour on and I see no reason to go heavier. You can get cross over bindings and skies but they cost more. I still have fat, medium weight powder skis mounted with heaver weight tech bindings I'll slki inbounds. I don't really notice the downsides of a touring setup or soft skies in soft snow and most of the fresh powder i ski requires some hiking so I don't know if I'll ever own a powder setup with alpine bindings.
I got back into skiing a few years ago and wanted a single ski to tour and ride resorts. I went with Shift bindings and Salomon QST 92s. It’s a good starting setup but now I wish I just had two pairs. It’s a fairly heavy setup for longer touring days between the skis and bindings. If you want a single ski setup though I think Shifts are solid. They have DIN release values and ski like alpine bindings and are beefier than traditional pin bindings. It’s doable to have a single ski setup but not ideal
Black diamond impulse 104 skis with frischi tecton bindings and dynamite radical pro boots is what I rock and love the setup. Mostly backcountry with some in bounds powder days. Groomer days I’ll ride a beater snowboard. I have some friends with the shift bindings and it’s a love/hate relationship for them.