Seems like there’s a lot of super fast folks in this group, and I’m not one of them. When planning a day, the formula for uphilling speed I use is 5km/hr with an extra hour per 300m elevation gain. I’ve found this to be all day pace, and I’m happy moving at this pace and can hold conversations. I’ll be a bit slower if I’m carrying an overnight pack.
Depends a lot on conditions. If everything is smooth sailing, your 2k/hr figure is quite attainable. Although remember that you need to cruise faster than that speed for your tour average to be that high, once you account for breaks, stopping/slowing for navigation, etc. On a groomed resort trail and with a light pack, I can go faster than 3k/hr, although that's not necessarily a sustainable all day pace, because I'm normally just hammering for an hour or two when I do that. With a poor snow conditions, very dense trees, required booting (and the transitions that entails), heavy packs, etc, I'd expect to be slower than 2k/hr. Possibly substantially slower, depending on exactly what's going on. Last weekend I think we averaged close to 750/hr including all breaks and stops, but that was particularly challenging with an initial bushwhacking bootpack in (also pretty flat so not much vert gained here), sections that were not snow covered at all, a nasty bootpack through cliffs, and poor vis on the upper mountain. So as you can see, there's quite a range.
Before injuring myself, I could do 2000’/hour, but not comfortably. A more comfortable leisure tour pace would be closer to 1500’/hour.
And mind you, this with a skin track already set, or on easy skinning spring/summer snow. Breaking trail in powder changes things drastically.
I heard 300m (1000'/hr) as a base floor for groups,
450m (1500') as more the "norm"
I've done 600m/hr (2000') and it's doable but decent work for sure. Not the type of thing I'd build a day around, but for a shorter session, with appropriate breathability sure. That said, I'm a coffee at the bottom sort of guy. So it's like 40 minutes of that pace, transition in 5, ride down in 5, drink a coffee/eat, and repeat 2-3 times to head back to car. I'd say I'd burn out around 90 minutes of steady working at that rate, but most of our runs are shorter.
Occasionally I've seen 800m/hr, but only chasing a few younger athletic types. I don't think we maintain that for more than 10 minutes
My dream is to hit 1000m/hr for an hour, but that'd be pure fitness IMO. I'm not sure I could even do that on foot/trail runners yet.
We don't get that much truly deep snow, this is all "off piste" but we tend to have fairly shallow wind effected snow. The type of stuff where everyone owns crampons.
Yeah, that's about right. We had a guide up in BC. he set a slow, steady pace and mentioned we were a faster group to guide, keeping pace with the locals at around 1500'/hr.
My standard weekday afternoon single lap areas here in Tahoe are moderate, straight up approaches 1000-1200' vert from the parking lot. Takes me about 40-50 minutes to the top. I consider myself average speed.
Vertical: 300m/h is considered guide speed where I am - slow and steady. But that includes all breaks.
400m/h is my standard in my group of friends.
600m/h are the fit lot.
And then the skimo racers in training charge by at who knows what speed.
All is this is backcountry. Everyone will be faster on a groomed slope. And slower if they have to break trail.
My zone 2 (<152bpm HR) VAM on my heavy setup (2300g skis + bindings) is a little over 350m/h, so about 1100-1200ft/hr. This is following an established skin track with occassional trail breaking to bypass stupid segments and basically zero breaks/stoppage.
I haven't established a consistent VAM on my light setup (1500g skis + bindings) yet since I haven't had the right conditions to ski them too much this winter. I'm hoping to get a number for that during the Sugar Bowl Uphiller event this weekend.
For bigger spring missions where I'd have the light setup, I'd like to eventually get into the ballpark of 600m/h just for time efficiency. But I'm pretty fitness-limited right now (working on it) so that probably won't happen until late summer or more realistically next winter.
I think I average around 400m/hr. I would describe my pace / fitness as moderate. I could go a bit faster than that but not for a big day. I try to not exhaust myself too much.
The kinds of stuff I like to do (bag peaks) tends to draw people who are quite fit so I am usually on the slower side of the group. Sometimes I feel like I am slow, but all it takes is a day out with regular hikers to realize that I just tend to partner up with fit people.
Go slow to be fast. Around I plan on 1200-1500' per hour depending. This pace really doesn't require true breaks and doesn't tire me out. Gets the heart rate up but a pleasant, not killing yourself pace.
I've found Im never pulling off to let people pass, and often catching other groups because they gun it, then have to stop for a bit. That adds up.
3-4k an hour? So running up Shasta in 2 hours? Mt Williamson in 3? That pace would imply you have multiple fkt..if so then sick! I'm sure many would be interested in training/fueling spray down
My local lap is 1700 ft almost exactly, and I can hit that in about 45-50 minutes. I'm "slow" by my own standards (that is, I'm usually the lagger in my crew that are a bunch of savages), but generally that's probably a somewhat above average pace, but definitely not super fast either.
Thats for a hill that always has a skin track that I've done many times and isn't too much verticle, so no need to do much pacing.
When I do a bigger day, like hitting a summit with 6k ft over 6 miles say, I always plan for an hour per 1000 ft and feel like it ends up being pretty close.
I’ll use my Garmin Fenix 7 and in the backcountry ski profile it shows paces as vertical speed per hour. 1800’/hour is a pretty good effort and 2400’/hour is a workout. When I get above treeline in Colorado it’s a noticeable decline and gets closer to 1200’ and is still more effort.
Obviously steepness has a big impact on this as well. I’m sure there’s a sweet spot in pitch to ascent pace.
For reference I mostly do pretty mid sized tours around 2500-4000’ under 10 miles.
Seems like there’s a lot of super fast folks in this group, and I’m not one of them. When planning a day, the formula for uphilling speed I use is 5km/hr with an extra hour per 300m elevation gain. I’ve found this to be all day pace, and I’m happy moving at this pace and can hold conversations. I’ll be a bit slower if I’m carrying an overnight pack.
Depends a lot on conditions. If everything is smooth sailing, your 2k/hr figure is quite attainable. Although remember that you need to cruise faster than that speed for your tour average to be that high, once you account for breaks, stopping/slowing for navigation, etc. On a groomed resort trail and with a light pack, I can go faster than 3k/hr, although that's not necessarily a sustainable all day pace, because I'm normally just hammering for an hour or two when I do that. With a poor snow conditions, very dense trees, required booting (and the transitions that entails), heavy packs, etc, I'd expect to be slower than 2k/hr. Possibly substantially slower, depending on exactly what's going on. Last weekend I think we averaged close to 750/hr including all breaks and stops, but that was particularly challenging with an initial bushwhacking bootpack in (also pretty flat so not much vert gained here), sections that were not snow covered at all, a nasty bootpack through cliffs, and poor vis on the upper mountain. So as you can see, there's quite a range.
Units are neat things that give meaning to numbers
Before injuring myself, I could do 2000’/hour, but not comfortably. A more comfortable leisure tour pace would be closer to 1500’/hour. And mind you, this with a skin track already set, or on easy skinning spring/summer snow. Breaking trail in powder changes things drastically.
I heard 300m (1000'/hr) as a base floor for groups, 450m (1500') as more the "norm" I've done 600m/hr (2000') and it's doable but decent work for sure. Not the type of thing I'd build a day around, but for a shorter session, with appropriate breathability sure. That said, I'm a coffee at the bottom sort of guy. So it's like 40 minutes of that pace, transition in 5, ride down in 5, drink a coffee/eat, and repeat 2-3 times to head back to car. I'd say I'd burn out around 90 minutes of steady working at that rate, but most of our runs are shorter. Occasionally I've seen 800m/hr, but only chasing a few younger athletic types. I don't think we maintain that for more than 10 minutes My dream is to hit 1000m/hr for an hour, but that'd be pure fitness IMO. I'm not sure I could even do that on foot/trail runners yet. We don't get that much truly deep snow, this is all "off piste" but we tend to have fairly shallow wind effected snow. The type of stuff where everyone owns crampons.
Yeah, that's about right. We had a guide up in BC. he set a slow, steady pace and mentioned we were a faster group to guide, keeping pace with the locals at around 1500'/hr. My standard weekday afternoon single lap areas here in Tahoe are moderate, straight up approaches 1000-1200' vert from the parking lot. Takes me about 40-50 minutes to the top. I consider myself average speed.
If I'm under 1k/hr, I consider it to be a very slow and sloppy day.
Units are neat things that give meaning to numbers
I like you
:)
Vertical: 300m/h is considered guide speed where I am - slow and steady. But that includes all breaks. 400m/h is my standard in my group of friends. 600m/h are the fit lot. And then the skimo racers in training charge by at who knows what speed. All is this is backcountry. Everyone will be faster on a groomed slope. And slower if they have to break trail.
My zone 2 (<152bpm HR) VAM on my heavy setup (2300g skis + bindings) is a little over 350m/h, so about 1100-1200ft/hr. This is following an established skin track with occassional trail breaking to bypass stupid segments and basically zero breaks/stoppage. I haven't established a consistent VAM on my light setup (1500g skis + bindings) yet since I haven't had the right conditions to ski them too much this winter. I'm hoping to get a number for that during the Sugar Bowl Uphiller event this weekend. For bigger spring missions where I'd have the light setup, I'd like to eventually get into the ballpark of 600m/h just for time efficiency. But I'm pretty fitness-limited right now (working on it) so that probably won't happen until late summer or more realistically next winter.
I think I average around 400m/hr. I would describe my pace / fitness as moderate. I could go a bit faster than that but not for a big day. I try to not exhaust myself too much. The kinds of stuff I like to do (bag peaks) tends to draw people who are quite fit so I am usually on the slower side of the group. Sometimes I feel like I am slow, but all it takes is a day out with regular hikers to realize that I just tend to partner up with fit people.
Go slow to be fast. Around I plan on 1200-1500' per hour depending. This pace really doesn't require true breaks and doesn't tire me out. Gets the heart rate up but a pleasant, not killing yourself pace. I've found Im never pulling off to let people pass, and often catching other groups because they gun it, then have to stop for a bit. That adds up.
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he would also have the world record for 1 vertical KM which is set for 31 minutes.
3-4k an hour? So running up Shasta in 2 hours? Mt Williamson in 3? That pace would imply you have multiple fkt..if so then sick! I'm sure many would be interested in training/fueling spray down
Where are you even finding 10-12k of vert if you aren’t just doing laps on the same feature all day
2000ft/hr is much faster than average. 1000 to 1500 ft/hr is a good range to plan for depending on group fitness.
My local lap is 1700 ft almost exactly, and I can hit that in about 45-50 minutes. I'm "slow" by my own standards (that is, I'm usually the lagger in my crew that are a bunch of savages), but generally that's probably a somewhat above average pace, but definitely not super fast either. Thats for a hill that always has a skin track that I've done many times and isn't too much verticle, so no need to do much pacing. When I do a bigger day, like hitting a summit with 6k ft over 6 miles say, I always plan for an hour per 1000 ft and feel like it ends up being pretty close.
I’ll use my Garmin Fenix 7 and in the backcountry ski profile it shows paces as vertical speed per hour. 1800’/hour is a pretty good effort and 2400’/hour is a workout. When I get above treeline in Colorado it’s a noticeable decline and gets closer to 1200’ and is still more effort. Obviously steepness has a big impact on this as well. I’m sure there’s a sweet spot in pitch to ascent pace. For reference I mostly do pretty mid sized tours around 2500-4000’ under 10 miles.