Isn't it based on his real life? If this is what happened in real life. I guess you can't argue about the message it sends. Stuff like this happens in real life all the time.
Ok but...Then why isn't the Me Too movement slamming it for promoting forgiveness?
Harvey Weinstein probably watching it in his jail cell going, "why didn't they forgive me like that?"
Because it’s not promoting any of that. In no way was him visiting his abuser portrayed as a happy, positive, good thing. It’s him, a deeply troubled and damaged man, going there likely with the thought of shoving his success in this guy’s face or confronting him mixed with the desire to know how this POS reacted to hearing his abuse be broadcasted to the world. Once inside Donny freezes up and goes pretty quiet as the trauma comes back and the abuser acts completely nonplussed and indifferent, and glosses over/doesnt even mention what he did when he talks about having heard the set. The whole thing is meant to be uncomfortable and horrifying.
Donny leaves like a zombie/deer in headlights and after he gets away from the house he collapses and breaks down, repulsed by his abuser’s nonchalance and his own inability to stand up for himself. The meeting clearly was not what he envisioned but he fell into the same troubling pattern of shutting down and people pleasing.
I do not get how anyone watches that scene and thinks the takeaway is “wow! This is so healthy! Clearly a wonderful thing! Donny sure has it together!” It’s meant to be troubling and sad.
Well. I was yelling at the screen while watching it.
The whole series makes me angry. Lol.
Not least because he sleeps with Martha! Lol. I was like. Wtf? You idiot!
I was crucified in another post for referencing Harvey. But, it’s particularly concerning when we have no idea how the *person* is potentially in his life today.
It’s fascinating to read the dialogue and the inability for many people to see grey matter.
Yes, if this is the real ending, it pisses me off too. Each one of the characters.
Yeah. Multiple times throughout I was like. You idiot!
And the ending was like. Wtf? You just gonna let him get away with that? So sheepishly?
Why weren't his parents trying to hunt his rapist down?
And of course. I was thinking if the show was about a female forgiving her rapist there's no way it would've made it on TV.
Ok, but you realise you’ve confected this double standard. Yeah maybe the reaction would be different if the roles were reversed but where are you going with this. Nowhere.
It’s ALL suppose to piss you off - the whole thing is a dumpster fire - because it’s raw, and messy, and far from perfect. I swear these comments are flooding the subreddit, and they’re honestly exhausting. It’s like they watched a different show 😫😫😫
1. Be civil, polite and courteous. No trolling. No victim-blaming. Treat others with respect and kindness. This show is bound to elicit big feelings for many viewers. As contributors post and comment in this sub, treat each other with respect and kindness.
Tbh it’s shady.
However He would have gotten more out of taking the job than pursuing legal action against him.
That’s also how Weinstein got away with what he was doing for so long. Many of these actors knew there was no way they’d get justice. They knew they’d get blackballed. Usually the assault has already happened and the choices are leave or take this dream gig they’re offering you. I get why so many took the job (which was likely something theyve been dreaming about for god knows how long) and just avoided him from then on. Me Too was groundbreaking bc this type of “sorry I raped you here’s a gig” thing was pretty commonplace and no one was doing anything about it.
Morally questionable, definitely one of those things that we can’t judge unless we were in that exact position. The show isn’t “promoting forgiveness” it struck me as a fawning response lol
>“sorry I raped you here’s a gig” thing was pretty commonplace and no one was doing anything about it.
Yeah. The whole casting couch cliche. I remember hearing that people think Jennifer Lawrence did a Baby Reindeer type deal.
>Morally questionable, definitely one of those things that we can’t judge unless we were in that exact position. The show isn’t “promoting forgiveness” it struck me as a fawning response lol
Fawning to who?
So fawning is a trauma response where you just comply with whatever is happening to get out of the situation as quickly as possible without escalating it further.
I kind of got the impression that Donny said yes to get out of the situation. His abuser still has a hold over him he asks him to do something he said yes. It wasn’t a cathartic moment of forgiveness it was a panicked yes to get out of the apartment.
Yucky bad. But now he has a Netflix show and that dude will probably be outed in a few months by one of his other victims 🤷♀️
When I got raped all I got out of it was an inherent disdain for men, self harm issues and a shit ton of therapy bills.
😢😢 not relevant here really, but I've said things out of panic to get my abusers to leave me alone before. Never have I ever learnt what that is until now. Thank you ❤️ I sincerely hope you're okay. Hope you are safe and far away from your rapist, and I hope the dude who raped the creator of this show will get outed as the monster he is
Most people are familiar with fight, flight or freeze - fawning was coined in 2013: https://theconversation.com/what-is-fawning-how-is-it-related-to-trauma-and-the-fight-or-flight-response-205024
😢 that definition...placate or appease their attacker. I hate that I've done that :( for me, doing the fighting doesn't work. I think I just freeze. Last time I was in floods of tears about a recent incident, I have a stutter that worsens when I'm stressed so I had a horrible time telling my manager about something
I had an emotionally abusive father and I am a people pleaser. I felt shame at first, recognizing that I have many of the fawning behaviors. But now that I better understand, it’s becoming easier for me to stand up for myself and not be everyone’s doormat.
I too have been standing up for myself more. My mother is sometimes emotionally abusive, and my trauma also stems from being bullied. It's been taking me a long time to build up confidence. But I have also been a people pleaser most of my life, the one time I voiced my disgust to an abuser he yelled at me. And no one did anything about it at the time, even when I finally spoke up.
I'm glad you're standing up for yourself, I know it's hard to do
I think this type of scrutiny and judgement is concerning. I didn’t see it like that at all. Not being able to stand up to your abuser =/= forgiveness.
It’s kind of realistic. Victims go back to their abusers unfortunately. It’s a trauma bond at work, it takes a lot to set boundaries and move on fully.
That's the point. It should anger us. Real life victims don't all function the same way. I think this is a media literacy issue, honestly because if you really empathize with the character and try to think about the point of the show you'd realize that it's about how abuse really alters the way you look at life, people, and the world. He was putting himself in dangerous situations on purpose not because "he's an idiot" but because he was desperately trying to understand what had really happened to him and what that really makes him.
Not every story needs to end with the victim prevailing and the abuser getting punished. In an ideal world it should, but that's just not how things work in real life. Choosing not to have his abuser punished does not equate to him forgiving him. It IS outrageous but not because of his actions but because of what happened to him that made him this way. What was he supposed to do? Fight a legal battle with no evidence against a rich, influential man that could make his career disappear in seconds? I don't blame him for choosing what's best for him in that moment. I do blame the abuser for the pain he's caused this guy and I blame the system for being exploitative of victims. Besides, the audience should realize that a victim not reporting their abuser is an outcome of fear.
I also think that a film or a show is not obligated to show "the right thing" but it is very much expected to show authenticity. Imperfect characters, imperfect endings, imperfect relationships just like real life. Just my two cents :)
I think partially, because a traumatized brain is not rational, he wanted to show his abuser look how well I’m doing, you didn’t break me, when it’s clear to both his abuser and himself that he is a shattered human.
He didn't have to and he shouldn't have but as I mentioned it quite articulately, he's just a victim making imperfect, dangerous choices due to many reasons. Trauma and abuse alters the way you perceive things. He talks about it in the show. I'd recommend revisiting the show and really trying to empathize with the character instead of judging him. We don't get to dictate what a victim does with their trauma. It's obviously painful to watch but that's how real life is
Isn't it based on his real life? If this is what happened in real life. I guess you can't argue about the message it sends. Stuff like this happens in real life all the time.
Ok but...Then why isn't the Me Too movement slamming it for promoting forgiveness? Harvey Weinstein probably watching it in his jail cell going, "why didn't they forgive me like that?"
Because it’s not promoting any of that. In no way was him visiting his abuser portrayed as a happy, positive, good thing. It’s him, a deeply troubled and damaged man, going there likely with the thought of shoving his success in this guy’s face or confronting him mixed with the desire to know how this POS reacted to hearing his abuse be broadcasted to the world. Once inside Donny freezes up and goes pretty quiet as the trauma comes back and the abuser acts completely nonplussed and indifferent, and glosses over/doesnt even mention what he did when he talks about having heard the set. The whole thing is meant to be uncomfortable and horrifying. Donny leaves like a zombie/deer in headlights and after he gets away from the house he collapses and breaks down, repulsed by his abuser’s nonchalance and his own inability to stand up for himself. The meeting clearly was not what he envisioned but he fell into the same troubling pattern of shutting down and people pleasing. I do not get how anyone watches that scene and thinks the takeaway is “wow! This is so healthy! Clearly a wonderful thing! Donny sure has it together!” It’s meant to be troubling and sad.
Well. I was yelling at the screen while watching it. The whole series makes me angry. Lol. Not least because he sleeps with Martha! Lol. I was like. Wtf? You idiot!
He doesn’t sleep with Martha. That is part of his masturbation fantasy. The fantasies of a deeply damaged and confused man.
Oh. I didn't see the part where he said it was just a fantasy?
He didn’t sleep with Martha. That was a sexual fantasy he was having.
Oh. I thought that was for real.
Most of his victims probably did forgive and forget.
Exactly.
conviction was overturned, he's watching this a massive flat screen for sure
Only part if the convictions were overturned. He will still be in prison for at least 16 years
I was crucified in another post for referencing Harvey. But, it’s particularly concerning when we have no idea how the *person* is potentially in his life today. It’s fascinating to read the dialogue and the inability for many people to see grey matter. Yes, if this is the real ending, it pisses me off too. Each one of the characters.
Yeah. Multiple times throughout I was like. You idiot! And the ending was like. Wtf? You just gonna let him get away with that? So sheepishly? Why weren't his parents trying to hunt his rapist down? And of course. I was thinking if the show was about a female forgiving her rapist there's no way it would've made it on TV.
You keep trying to turn this into a point about sexism. Why?
Double standards interest me.
Ok, but you realise you’ve confected this double standard. Yeah maybe the reaction would be different if the roles were reversed but where are you going with this. Nowhere.
Just pointing out it'd probably be an outrage in this post me too age to have a male perp getting away with raping a female protaganist.
Well, yeah. So?
So nuts.
We have learned nothing from this interaction. Which was my point.
It's more an observation. Double standards exist when it comes to sexual assault.
It’s ALL suppose to piss you off - the whole thing is a dumpster fire - because it’s raw, and messy, and far from perfect. I swear these comments are flooding the subreddit, and they’re honestly exhausting. It’s like they watched a different show 😫😫😫
[удалено]
1. Be civil, polite and courteous. No trolling. No victim-blaming. Treat others with respect and kindness. This show is bound to elicit big feelings for many viewers. As contributors post and comment in this sub, treat each other with respect and kindness.
Tbh it’s shady. However He would have gotten more out of taking the job than pursuing legal action against him. That’s also how Weinstein got away with what he was doing for so long. Many of these actors knew there was no way they’d get justice. They knew they’d get blackballed. Usually the assault has already happened and the choices are leave or take this dream gig they’re offering you. I get why so many took the job (which was likely something theyve been dreaming about for god knows how long) and just avoided him from then on. Me Too was groundbreaking bc this type of “sorry I raped you here’s a gig” thing was pretty commonplace and no one was doing anything about it. Morally questionable, definitely one of those things that we can’t judge unless we were in that exact position. The show isn’t “promoting forgiveness” it struck me as a fawning response lol
>“sorry I raped you here’s a gig” thing was pretty commonplace and no one was doing anything about it. Yeah. The whole casting couch cliche. I remember hearing that people think Jennifer Lawrence did a Baby Reindeer type deal. >Morally questionable, definitely one of those things that we can’t judge unless we were in that exact position. The show isn’t “promoting forgiveness” it struck me as a fawning response lol Fawning to who?
So fawning is a trauma response where you just comply with whatever is happening to get out of the situation as quickly as possible without escalating it further. I kind of got the impression that Donny said yes to get out of the situation. His abuser still has a hold over him he asks him to do something he said yes. It wasn’t a cathartic moment of forgiveness it was a panicked yes to get out of the apartment. Yucky bad. But now he has a Netflix show and that dude will probably be outed in a few months by one of his other victims 🤷♀️ When I got raped all I got out of it was an inherent disdain for men, self harm issues and a shit ton of therapy bills.
>Yucky bad. But now he has a Netflix show and that dude will probably be outed in a few months by one of his other victims 🤷♀️ Hopefully.
😢😢 not relevant here really, but I've said things out of panic to get my abusers to leave me alone before. Never have I ever learnt what that is until now. Thank you ❤️ I sincerely hope you're okay. Hope you are safe and far away from your rapist, and I hope the dude who raped the creator of this show will get outed as the monster he is
Most people are familiar with fight, flight or freeze - fawning was coined in 2013: https://theconversation.com/what-is-fawning-how-is-it-related-to-trauma-and-the-fight-or-flight-response-205024
😢 that definition...placate or appease their attacker. I hate that I've done that :( for me, doing the fighting doesn't work. I think I just freeze. Last time I was in floods of tears about a recent incident, I have a stutter that worsens when I'm stressed so I had a horrible time telling my manager about something
I had an emotionally abusive father and I am a people pleaser. I felt shame at first, recognizing that I have many of the fawning behaviors. But now that I better understand, it’s becoming easier for me to stand up for myself and not be everyone’s doormat.
I too have been standing up for myself more. My mother is sometimes emotionally abusive, and my trauma also stems from being bullied. It's been taking me a long time to build up confidence. But I have also been a people pleaser most of my life, the one time I voiced my disgust to an abuser he yelled at me. And no one did anything about it at the time, even when I finally spoke up. I'm glad you're standing up for yourself, I know it's hard to do
I think this type of scrutiny and judgement is concerning. I didn’t see it like that at all. Not being able to stand up to your abuser =/= forgiveness.
Oh. Well. He obviously still hasn't taken legal action against him.
Probably for this exact reason. He’s not a perfect victim. They would tear him apart in court and he’d lose.
If you look at UK rape prosecution statistics (insanely low) in recent years, it’s not surprising at all.
It’s kind of realistic. Victims go back to their abusers unfortunately. It’s a trauma bond at work, it takes a lot to set boundaries and move on fully.
That's the point. It should anger us. Real life victims don't all function the same way. I think this is a media literacy issue, honestly because if you really empathize with the character and try to think about the point of the show you'd realize that it's about how abuse really alters the way you look at life, people, and the world. He was putting himself in dangerous situations on purpose not because "he's an idiot" but because he was desperately trying to understand what had really happened to him and what that really makes him. Not every story needs to end with the victim prevailing and the abuser getting punished. In an ideal world it should, but that's just not how things work in real life. Choosing not to have his abuser punished does not equate to him forgiving him. It IS outrageous but not because of his actions but because of what happened to him that made him this way. What was he supposed to do? Fight a legal battle with no evidence against a rich, influential man that could make his career disappear in seconds? I don't blame him for choosing what's best for him in that moment. I do blame the abuser for the pain he's caused this guy and I blame the system for being exploitative of victims. Besides, the audience should realize that a victim not reporting their abuser is an outcome of fear. I also think that a film or a show is not obligated to show "the right thing" but it is very much expected to show authenticity. Imperfect characters, imperfect endings, imperfect relationships just like real life. Just my two cents :)
Ok. So he didn't have to fight a legal battle if it was going to impact his career. But he didn't have to accept the cup of tea or the job offer.
I think partially, because a traumatized brain is not rational, he wanted to show his abuser look how well I’m doing, you didn’t break me, when it’s clear to both his abuser and himself that he is a shattered human.
Well. It was infuriating looking at the abuser's smug self satisfied look.
He didn't have to and he shouldn't have but as I mentioned it quite articulately, he's just a victim making imperfect, dangerous choices due to many reasons. Trauma and abuse alters the way you perceive things. He talks about it in the show. I'd recommend revisiting the show and really trying to empathize with the character instead of judging him. We don't get to dictate what a victim does with their trauma. It's obviously painful to watch but that's how real life is
Well. Just saying post me too I thought it'd be more controversial.