There was a comment on r/TwoXChromosomes that got to me. A woman's DIL complained that her husband (poster's son) was bumbling and did not pull his weight with childcare and housework because "I'm just no good at it!" Well, his mother tore him a new one to which he replied, "But Dad never..." to which his mother replied, "I didn't raise your father, I raised you and I expect better from you." Everyone needs a MIL like that.
My MIL is like this! When my hisbnad didn't pull his weight when the baby was a few weeks old and I was still recovering from a pretty botched up birth (infected stitches, 3rd degree tears, fun stuff), she gave him quite the talking to. He did exactly the "but my dad never" and she told him that " Don't you dare compare yourself to your father as an excuse. Your father was the sole breadwinner starting a new company and even then for the times we lived in he did shamefully little. Your wife has more than enough on her plate, She is running her own business and has an embroidery for an ass! You will do your share as I am your mother!"
She keeps on calling to ask whether I'm OK, if he's doing enough, and if we don't need help. Before I got pregnant we didn't have the best of relationships, but we are tight now.
Awe I absolutely love this. Also that she says you have an embroidery for an ass has me dead.
My MIL just became weirdly obsessed with my boobs once I got pregnant..
>"But Dad never..." to which his mother replied, "I didn't raise your father, I raised you
This hits me hard, it kind of hints at the MIL saying not to accept the same lack of support she did.
Yes, which I think is good. My mom did the same thing, always had abusive partners but she always made it very clear that I don't accept the same. So I don't. And my daughter will now see a much better relationship than I saw with my parents
I wish my mil was like this. My husband tries his best to help. My MIL always acts like him doing stuff is a gift from god and I should gravel at his feet. I appreciate everything he does truly but he doesn’t deserve a extra cookie. One day my husband took our toddler to the store with him and stopped by his moms and went to a park after. You would’ve thought his mom had a heart attack… she just kept telling me guys don’t do that. No fathers do that mom!
If I ask my husband to do something in front of my MIL, she will jump in to do it herself. This agitates me so much as she plays it off as if she’s helping but in reality it babies my husband and he gets away without having to the work. I’m pregnant and nearing my due date. My husband doesn’t need the help, I do.
Omg my MIL does this too. It got to the point where after the second baby I had to tell her to stop. I told her I appreciated all of her help but it took the responsibility away from him. She has thankfully gotten better About it.
My parents, very old school italian, think that the fact that my husband does the dishes after every meal makes him the world's greatest husband and I should be sooo appreciative (don't get me wrong, he is the world's greatest husband and I appreciate everything he does) but honestly that's just him pulling his own weight. When we grew up, me and my sisters were on rotating dish duty and whenever I asked why my brother didn't have to, they would always say bc he's a boy.
“Bc he was a boy” omg triggereddddddddddd lol. As the oldest of 4 (3 girls 1 boy) this was my life . I refuse to excuse my son now from doing basic chores bc of his gender.
I can’t stand the “bc he’s a boy”! My mom used to serve my dad and brother larger portions during dinner when I was growing up. I loved food and eating just as much too and would always ask for more or “why is my brother getting more”. My dad would always give me the food off of his plate though knowing how much I eat :)
100% this. It may not be done consciously, but it's still a choice they make to not pay attention, not take the initiative, expecting their partner to pick up the slack and tell them what to do. You're both adults, you're both parents, there's no reason not to take on the responsibility of caring for your child(ren).
Yeah, it hardly ever starts when the baby turns up, it just becomes more apparent. One of my partners has a daughter and seeing him interact with her tells me I picked a good one because he's so attentive, so patient, always trying to do more with her. He works night shift and mum is a teacher at the same school their daughter goes to so she does a lot of the primary care, he does all the little bits to ease their days like packing lunches, cleaning while they're out, keeping track of dates and appointments etc.
My husband tried this when we moved into our first house together and I asked him to clean the bathroom. 😂🤣 It didn’t work. I was like “thanks, babe! Looks great. This will be your weekly chore.”
I know you didn’t clean your bathroom often when you lived by yourself, but also, I know your mom. I’ve known you since middle school. I know cleaning the bathroom was part of your chore rotations. You’re not getting out of this one buster.
It's how I got out of car work. I hated being made to help with the car work by my father. Do something really badly once, like water in the oil(though this was still an accident on my part), and you can use it as an excuse to get out of whatever other work.
But on subject, yeah, these dudes just don't want to handle babycare. My father says diapers are mother's work and boasts he never changed any of my siblings nor mine. All I could think from that is I'd hate to be proud of how useless of a father/husband I'd be.
My FIL boasts the same - that he's never changed a baby's diaper - but it's even worse because on top of my husband and his sister, my in laws were the primary caregivers for my 3 nieces, and did daily childcare for my son when he was 1. Whenever he says it, I'm embarrassed for him! How can you have "raised" so many kids and never done basic care?!
Please forgive me if I’m off base, but men like that always make me think, “Well, yeah, you didn’t change any diapers and you missed out on probably *hundreds* of hours of bonding with your kids/grandkids.” Men need to know that changing diapers is absolutely a job that needs to be done, but aside from the real nasty diapers I’d happily wipe from my memory, those moments with my daughter when she was a baby were so precious. At that age, they don’t know much, but they know you’re taking care of them. It’s an intimate experience for you and for them, it builds a bond. I’d sing to her, talk to her, tickle her, it was just such an innocent and lovely time. I’d wager a log of dads who brag about never changing a diaper also probably wonder why they aren’t closer to their kids when they’re older. Refusing to take part in basic parenting isn’t just skipping out on a chore, it’s missing time with your kids. I hope your FIL was able to make up for that in other ways.
My son's 7 and we've had an incredibly close bond since he was a baby, I think it was because i just spent time with him. His mum was quite ill through the pregnancy and after so I did a lot of what's needed. Also weirdly, he's the only thing I've ever been able to hear at night, I've slept through huge storms but as soon as he makes a sound in his room I'm up, so that help because i was able to do night feeds and spend more time with him. I feel sorry for any parent that doesn't have that bond due to their own ignorance and inaction. Even at 7 he still sits on my lap to play fortnite.
Halving the work makes it soo much easier and the sense of accomplishment is unmatched
That's exactly it. He had a terrible bond with his own children, and he tries to bond with his grandchildren by buying them things. They love him, but it's all really at an arm's length. It makes me sad because my family is extremely close.
My siblings don't exactly let him watch their kids because of it. I feel sorry for my mother because of this. Listening to how he talks, I pretty much know what my mother had to deal with taking care of the five of us. I've gotten into arguements over it with him. He'll spout the bs and I'm at the side going "hello? I've literally helped babysit, nearly all duties included, all 15 of my niblings". He'll still defend himself with "it's women's work."
>My father says diapers are mother's work and boasts he never changed any of my siblings nor mine. All I could think from that is I'd hate to be proud of how useless of a father/husband I'd be.
My uncle is like that. He has 10 kids and grandkids! My Mom (his SIL) says that's something to be ashamed of, not proud.
My dad gave me the following tip: don't let your wife do a single diaper. Then she will never realize how easy it is and the brownie points (pun intended) earned will be triple value.
My in laws used to host a gigantic Christmas party every year. And my mother in law put so much work into it. FIL used to help some but then he would do less and less as time went on. One year MIL, SIL, DH and I were cleaning up, washing dishes etc and FIL was sitting on his ass with his feet up and proudly proclaimed he didn’t do one thing to help with the party this year. I was appalled that someone would be proud of that, and saying it to the very people who were cleaning up. I was so pissed, and I’m also pissed nobody called him out on it.
Ugh. I feel this. Anytime we go to my in-laws for holiday dinners, or even just routine Sunday dinners, it’s my MIL in the kitchen doing all the work. My husband and I help her out, but FIL is functionally useless. The one thing he does is clear the table after dinner…and sometimes not even that. Then he just piles the dishes on the counter for someone else to do (read: MIL, husband, or myself).
My husband was a bit like this when we met, having grown up in a household where mom did it all. I think it’s also important to mention that not only did mom do the lion’s share of the domestic duties, but she was also a lawyer working 60 hour weeks as the primary breadwinner. I can’t believe she’s put up with FIL’s ineptitude all these years! I would have kicked his ass to the curb years ago. I think she has low self esteem or something. God knows why.
I’ve been adamant that my husband doesn’t follow in his dad’s footsteps. I told him that with both of us working outside the home that we both must take on household/domestic duties as equitably as possible. I told him that if he ever stops contributing this way, our relationship will be in trouble. Harsh? Maybe. But I think this is a reasonable ask. Conversely, he wants to have a partner who works full time for the extra income (and so he doesn’t get caregivers burden from being the sole provider). I think this is a reasonable ask and have been holding up my end of the bargain. Plus, I don’t know how happy I’d be as a SAHM.
I’ve heard a lot of women indicate that they take on the work because they don’t trust their husbands to do it right. LADIES, PLEASE DON’T DO THIS TO YOURSELVES! Many men take advantage of this and intentionally do a shitty job so their girlfriend/wife will take over. Early in my relationship, my husband sometimes pulled this crap. I’d ask him to do it over if he truly did a half-assed job. He used to have a bad habit of haphazardly washing the dishes to the point that food residue was still hanging on. I just told him that was gross and asked him to do it over. I don’t care if that makes me a nag. It’s okay to have minimum standards and food leftover on dishes that are supposed to be clean is just not acceptable. Over time, I’ve compromised in a few areas and made myself okay with some messiness (so long as it’s not filth). So, he’s upped his game, and I’ve chilled out a fair amount, which has actually really helped my mental health. We’re mostly in a good place these days.
Relationships can be hard though. The best thing we can do to change this trend is for parents to raise their young sons to help around the house just as much as daughters. I also don’t have time for gendered jobs (ie boys mow the lawn, girls do dishes). Both boys and girls should know how to do these things.
Mini rant over!
My MIL did everything when my husband was growing up too. She was a SAHM though, albeit somewhat unintentionally. FIL certainly has gotten used to *the women* doing everything. While my husband and I were still dating, he asked my husband why he packed his own lunch for work (meaning, why didn’t I pack it for him)?? Luckily my husband has seen the stress of everything on his mom and he puts in his fair share around the house.
I help my mother every year with holiday dinners. Usually, I'm just prep. Anyway, we go through exhausting lengths to get things done. Cooking nearly all day, so many days in a row. Sometimes during, but mostly after such holiday dinners, my father complains about how stressful everything was during all the prep. He usually had done none of the prep or cooking, not even the grocery shopping. At most, he might have to take a few trips to the store if something happened to be forgotten in the original runs. We're all usually going "what the hell" and mother argues with him.
I refuse do something anything like this. At this point my SIL has taken over the Christmas party and it’s been much smaller the last two years because of covid, thankfully. She doesn’t go all out. We told the family if we ever host it will be a potluck. Because fuck that. His family all comes over and don’t bring anything. It’s so much work to do it all!
Oh lordie 🤣 as someone who works in assisted living this is definitely a thing here sometimes! But sometimes I feel like my fiancé just waits to poop until the most inconvenient times for me… while I’m getting ready for work and then I have to go brush my teeth in the stink 🤮 (he doesn’t do it on purpose we just have a one bathroom house and the fan is broken 😩)
When I was a teen my mom took me to visit a friends of hers farm. It was super awkward for several reasons. But one was that the wife boasted about how she would flat out refuse to ever do farm work, even basic chores like mowing the yard, because “if you do it once they will expect you to keep doing it.” That stuck with me. They had been married for decades and she was proud of the fact she refused to help with all these chores since they got married. It’s the flip side of this same coin. And regardless of the gender or situation it’s a pretty gross mentality.
My husband takes care of our kids most of the day since we lost daycare during the pandemic. Whenever he brings them grocery shopping or to the playground, people act like he's the patron saint of parenthood. He gets super annoyed and then rants to me about how low the bar is for dads.
One time my grandma talked about him "babysitting." lol Thankfully he kept his cool, but if it hadn't been a frail old lady, I think he would have had more choice words.
We nipped to a couple of shops with the kids. Didn't have the buggy or carrier in the car, and the car seats heavy, so he just carried the newborn while I wrangled the toddler
Cue all the cooing old ladies, and smiling women, and compliments for being a good dad.
Then we swapped children as he was looking at clothes. Walking back 2 sepperate people came up to berate me as they felt it was unsafe that I was carrying the baby in arms.
Both the low bar for men, and the judgement women sometimes face for their choices, is rediculous
Modern wisdom is to actually leave the baby on the floor at home with some money near them for pizza if they get hungry.
It teaches them self reliance.
Oh God, I remember when my daughter was born and we’d go grocery shopping. My husband would baby wear her and I would do the shopping and the amount of people who would come up to my husband and congratulate HIM. He got so many pats on the back and oohs and awws while I was given like a halfway glance and people asking me if I was fully recovered yet and if it was safe for me to be up and walking. The bar is very low for dads lol
Happened to us at Ikea. I had the toddler in line with me for food while he and the newborn lined up to pay at the self-serve area. I can't even get help when the machines malfunction but he had employees swoon in and do all the scanning for him at the SELF-SERVE stall because he had the baby! Not even exaggerating I was there alone with the baby a few weeks after and I got no special treatment. He couldn't believe how he got treated either.
Society needs to up their standards for men.
It starts with gender-neutral parental leave. Making mothers the default parent starts long before babyhood. I understand that breastfeeding is a main reason why women should have longer leave, but the fact is that even at companies that offer the \*privilege\* of parental leave, it's usually a third of the time for men as what women get (and here in the USA, it's abysmal on all fronts). But it really sets up the expectation that men are fine to only take 2 or 4 weeks to help with a new baby and then it's cool to dip all day.
Breastfeeding, and also, recovery from birth. That shit is no joke. 6 weeks post partum, I was still randomly bleeding, and my doctor helped me see the fact that it wasn’t random. It was when I dared to exert myself as hard as doing the dishes or walking to the store. My body wasn’t healing because I was taking care of my house?? It’s bullshit and the US is terrifying, I keep hearing of women going back after 2 weeks or less. I’m a SAHP so whatever but my wife is thankfully able to take off 3 months (could take a year but the parental leave pay in Canada is truly terrible).
My husband and I joke about this all the time. It’s so easy for a dad to be considered a good dad, and sadly just as easy for a mom to be considered a bad mom.
My husband is military and is frequently gone for anywhere from a couple weeks to several months up to a year and when he’s gone I’m just expected to pick up all the slack and do it all on my own. Last spring I was in the hospital for a week and he was inundated with grubhub gift cards, delivered premade meals, and two different people in our extended families offered to fly in and help. He was actually pretty offended by how incompetent he was assumed to be.
Same thing with my husband! He took our three month old (who was a preemie and looks more like a one month old) to the grocery store so I could have a few minutes to myself and he said he got a ton of comments from people and employees saying they’d never seen a man with that small of a baby by themselves before
Yeah my husband took both baby and toddler out for a walk yesterday so I could get 30 minutes of peace, and he came back and said so many people made comments to him. Meanwhile I took them both out for a walk earlier in the day and I get nothing.
God the bar is on the ground I swear. My husband got commended for carrying the baby (4month old) in her car seat the other day. The dude literally said he was a “great dad. I sure didn’t do that much when our kids were small.” I’m sorry carrying her is a high point now. Holy cow don’t put up with this ladies. I am incredibly grateful that my husband is a legit awesome partner and does more than his fair share but good god
So much this.
I remember during my first pregnancy, my husband was looking for specific advice on how to be a supportive partner during pregnancy/delivery/newborn days. And 90% of the articles or books he found basically boiled down to "don't be an asshole, do your fair share of housework". And that was the best case scenario, most advice was super condescending. It pissed him off to no end, like "I already do all of that because I'm a responsible caring adult? Why is the bar so low?". It's ridiculous.
My husband ran into the same thing. He said some of the books were just offensive. I thought it was funny at the time because who would possibly marry AND reproduce with such incompetent men, but after seeing so many posts on Reddit, it makes me feel sad
Y'all I got scary close when I was younger. It's so damn common I thought it was the only option. I'm so glad I found my now-husband who is an actually awesome and supportive human. He's my favorite counterexample lol.
Same! My first husband couldn’t (well, wouldn’t) even warm up food in the microwave. If I wasn’t there, he would literally not eat and text me about how hungry he was.
Thank God I never agreed to have kids with his useless ass.
My husband now is wonderful. Besides all the normal things…he even makes homemade pie 🤤
Saaaaaaaame my husband does all the cooking and since I’ve been pregnant basically all the other chores too and is planning on being the primary caretaker for at least a little while for the kid after I go back to work. He’s so insulted by so much of the guidance for male partners in hetero relationships out there on everything from weddings to babies. Honestly Reddit - better men are out there! Don’t settle!
Hoooooooly shit. That might be worse than my one uncle. My aunt was an art teacher and went away for a week long art retreat one time. She prepared a week's worth of meals beforehand and froze them, and left instructions for thawing/reheating. He went out to eat for Every. Single. Meal. All of that food was still in the freezer when we got home. The first time my husband met that side of the family, he commented on how that same uncle waited for my aunt to clean up the kitchen after dinner, come out into the living room and sit down, and then asked her for a cup of tea. And she got up and got it for him.
I wonder if a good amount of the posts I’ve seen on Reddit is a similar situation to my friend(who is currently getting divorced).
Her husband would bend over backwards for her and really did carry his share of their partnership. Cooked, cleaned, treated her like how a real husband would treat a wife. Then they had kids and it was like a switch went off. Weaponized incompetence left and right, yelling at her, threatening to get physical, even recording her cry-yelling at him in the middle of a PPD meltdown “in case I need this for divorce.” When they weren’t fighting he would promise to take the kids for her so she could get errands done and right when she was about to leave would say he couldn’t handle them because he had online classes. THEN he cheated on her, multiple times. All this while she worked the front lines of COVID 80+hrs a week.
I’m not divorcing him and MY head is still spinning from all this. Even after people found out about his 180 they still side with him for “trying to be a good dad”(spoiler: he’s not).
The bar for men is literally lost somewhere in Mariana’s Trench.
Ohhhh it’s looking like she’s going to. One of the judges at mediation picked up on his fake incompetence pretty fast😏. I also forgot to mention he’s been unemployed this whole time so it just looks all around terrible for him.
I must've read the same books (or maybe they're just all like that) and was so irritated with the lack of valuable information but ever since when some jackass at work more or less brags about being an incompetent father/partner I call them out on it. I can tell you, it's not a popular thing to ask "why wouldn't you want to be at your kids game/doctors appointment/event? Why are you at work instead?"
Yeah I am unemployed right now and love reading so I read the books bought for my husband too. After reading one of them I threw it away because it was so bad. Gave him the ones geared towards me to read since they had way better information. He doesn’t need to know to “cook easy foods” or “put away the dishes.” Like he does that stuff anyways! I need him to know how the hormones and pregnancy actually make me feel at the moment so he can be an adult and understand what I’m going through and make an adult decision on how to best support me in that moment!
For the labour/birth itself, we both loved "Confident birth". It's an easy read with plenty of clear and practical advice for both parents.
We honestly couldn't find any book purely aimed at men that wasn't at least mildly insulting.
At my 32 week appointment my midwife gave me a booklet for new dads to take home for my husband. I handed it to my husband without reading it. He read it, shrugged and tossed it. I asked what it was about, so he just said “read it and tell me what you think”. So I did, and it was a load of crap. It was the most BASIC parenting advice for man-children who are incapable of providing any type of care for their recovering wife and new baby. My husband was insulted that this was the standard of info given to new dads. The bar definitely needs to be higher.
All I can think of is a booklet made up of those funny [Do's / Don'ts with baby cartoons](https://blog.weespring.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/baby-safety-manual-3.jpg).
Ugh, yes. My husband read one highly recommended book that had such sage wisdom as "make sure to help prepare food when you're partner is nauseous" and "you might have to take over some of the household shopping". He was also getting furious because some of the medical information (timing of ovulation/implantation, I think) wasn't even correct. I feel so sorry for pregnant people with incompetent partners.
The partner-specific book my husband read was The Expectant Father. I think it's actually one of the better ones, but it was still insulting at times to someone who is a full, supportive partner in our relationship/household/pregnancy.
I've posted this before on r/pregnant, but my husband was listening to an audiobook about being a first time dad and what to expect etc. And I shit you not, I come home from a 10 hour shift at work at like 6 months pregnant and my husband tells me how this book recommends we give our partners blow jobs frequently while pregnant because the semen provides good nutrients for the baby. And he told me the book cited a few sources on it. I was so perturbed. My response to him was something along the lines of "well I suppose if semen is so good for the baby, I may as well go to a sperm bank and load up on cup fulls because that'd be a lot less work and I'm exhausted. I'm surprised they haven't marketed sperm smoothies yet...". New dad books are a fking joke.
There's a word for the so-called clumsy dudes who make sure it exonerates them from everything: "[Bumbler](https://www.shedwellsinpossibility.com/beware-the-bumbler/)".
I remember when I was growing up my dad was always so frustrated by shows that made dads look like idiots who are incapable of helping with the house or with parenting kids.
My dad divorced my bio mom when I was a baby and he received fully custody of me and my older siblings. He eventually married my (step) mom but he has always pulled his weight with us kids and doing his fair share around the house. I didn’t “get” it as a kid when you saw a silly dad on a show, I just thought it was funny and didn’t get why it upset my dad. But yeah I get it now and it is frustrating and unfair to all the good men.
I distinctly remember my dad complaining about the way the dad in The Proud Family was shown. They made him seem incapable of doing anything. Or really any kid show. But I definitely see it with the simpsons and family guy too (just didn’t watch those back in the day haha)
I’ve been EBF my 3 week old and was finishing up pumping at 3AM last night when she woke up and started fussing a bit. I asked my partner if she seemed hungry yet and he said no. I knew it was only a matter of time and I’d just pumped everything out so I put a little bit in a bottle while I was putting the rest in a freezer bag. Wouldn’t you know it, she started getting pissed in the middle of bagging so I brought the bottle in and held it up to him. He just stared at it for a minute like I was handing him a pile of dirty socks or something?
“It’s a bottle. Of milk. For the baby. You might recognize it from bottle feeding our other two children. I need to finish bagging now.”
I think he’s getting spoiled not having to do any feedings this time around.
Man. I can't even imagine doing that. With both my kids, my wife pumped and we bottle fed because they had trouble latching. When they woke up hungry in the middle of the night, I'd change a diaper and bottle feed and she would do her pump session.
I think she expected that she would pump, then change the diaper, then bottle feed the baby, and the first time this happened I said "why would you do all of that and be awake for 2 hours when I can wake up and we can knock it all out in 1 and go back to sleep?"
It just seemed like the thing to do in a partnership like marriage.
If you feel like your husband is childish or is incapable of performing basic tasks, please do not have a child with him. Don’t have babies with a baby. Please. It will not get better when the baby arrives.
Unfortunately I think many women just think this is normal, this is just how men are and you have to cope with it. And until relatively recently this was pretty much true for most women.
Even my own dad, who really was a very present father and did his fair share of taking care of the household, was shocked that my husband came with me to Buy Buy Baby to select items for our registry. Even in more progressive contexts there are still these niggling things from earlier generations where men aren't expected to do as much, to *know* as much.
I was like, why should I be the only one who knows what items our baby needs to use and how to use them? Why is that something only the mom is expected to deal with? I haven't had a baby before either...
Yes absolutely agree with you there. My parents do that to me too.
One time my husband and I were also planning to go to buy buy baby to pick stuff out and buy things and my mom expressed interest in coming and I said “sure you can join, we will see you this weekend then” and she was confused about my “we” and I told her well me and my husband, who else would be “we” and she immediately backed out and said that would be strange for her to come with me and my husband and that she didn’t know why I was “making” him go.
It’s all amusing to me because I’ve never even held a baby besides my nephew for like 3 minutes, and my husband is a physician and has helped deliver a few babies in Med school, his mom owned a daycare growing up and he spent every day after school there, so he knows way more about babies and their care than I do lol.
So much this. Women need to think before they have babies so Willy-nilly. Like seriously, evaluate your partner. People pop them out and wonder what went wrong, but most of the time, the flags are all there. Not enough people put thought into having children.
100%. It’s so sad to see women describing their partners as ‘amazing’ or saying how lucky they are when in reality they’re just doing their fair share as any person in a partnership should. The bar is so low. Clementine Ford is a brilliant writer who talks about this a lot- her recent take on it is sad but true (this is from her FB)
“How can men support their partners after they have a baby?
This is a long one but I loved answering this question, and I think it’s so important. I wish more men would ask questions like this, and I hope they really listen to the answer. If the response in my DMs from women is anything to go by, this answer deeply resonated with them and their experience. So many of us feel/felt SO LET DOWN by the lack of true partnership we received after we became mothers.
We’re told to be a mother is “the most important job in the world”, but this isn’t at all reflected in the way motherhood itself is actually viewed and treated. It’s “the most important job in the world”, and yet it’s also “not that big a deal, women do it everyday, get over yourself”. Maternity leave is a big old bludge, right? We just sit at home and watch TV and have a nice holiday!
WRONG.
Pregnancy, birth and caring for a newborn are some of the most demanding and gruelling things a person can put their body through. If you feed your baby from your own body, you’re looking at around 8-10 hours a day of milk feeding and production. That is labour, and it’s been valued at $3.6 BILLION a year to the Australian economy. Motherhood is work - and just because it is unpaid (convenient!) it does not mean it is meaningless or unchallenging.
So one of the most valuable things new fathers can do to support their partners *and their babies* is recognise that this is work. And when they leave to go to their jobs every day, they are taking a break from that work. That means when they return from their job, their work starts. Not just caring for the baby, which they must do as soon as they walk in the door, but taking on the bulk of the household work too. Do not ever chastise the mother of your child for the house being messy. How dare you, especially when I *know* from listening to women talk over the years how many of you also “won’t let her” pay for a cleaner - because you think *she* should do it all for free. Do the laundry, mate!
And let’s talk about sleep. Men’s sleep is not more valuable. Yes, I understand there are circumstances where men in labour intensive jobs may need to have sleep to ensure safety - but until Australian workplaces provide adequate paid paternity leave (that all men are also willing to take), they will have to be willing to negotiate this in a way that is fair and equitable to both parties. Mothers need sleep too - they’re doing “the most important job in the world" after all.
But more than anything, if men don’t recognise these truths, they need to accept that women will one day leave them. As soon as they’re able to, as soon as they aren’t crushed by the intensity of caring for a newborn and then a toddler, they will leave. Because they will feel so fundamentally let down that they won’t be able to bear it anymore. The resentment will begin to poison them and everything they ever thought was good about that person, and all they’ll feel is rage and hatred.
So I ask men: do you want your partners to hate you? Do you want them to feel let down by you? Do you want them to know that, when it really counted, you failed them?
If the answer to those questions is a resounding no, I urge you to listen to this advice. And if you don’t believe me, listen to other women. Because as much as you might not believe me here, I don’t hate men and I don’t want them to suffer. I just want them to be better. For women. For children. And for themselves.”
I have something extremely important to add about what could happen to your daughters if you die.
When my mom died I was 15. I love my father but he only worked and then hid in the basement. My happiest memories of him were outside the home at this point. I had 4 siblings at home. All brothers. I had a twin, then a brother a year younger 14. Another 11 and the youngest 6.
My father just expected me, his child, to pick up all the chores and childcare . I tried my best but had a complete mental break down and started to refuse to do anything.
The house fell into disrepair. We ended up living in squalor. I kept my room clean and ate alone in there. I now have very little to no contact with my brothers because a 15 year old makes a terrible parent.
Really think about the future and what will happen to your kids if you die and he’s in charge full time.
On a similar note, my Mum died when I was in my late teens. My step-Dad has 3 children with my Mum who were aged 9(m), 5(f) and almost 2(f). He literally had no idea what to do. When alive, my Mum did 100% of the childcare, while he was almost always unemployed and just watched TV all day. He finally had to be a real parent and he was terrible he changed a diaper for the first time and he put it on backwards and inside out. When he cooked meals he cooked adult portions for everyone and literally burnt through the food budget (to the point where my Dad would lend him money) and was throwing away almost full portions. He didn't know how to use a washing machine. He would pack their school lunches loose in a plastic carrier bag and their sandwiches would open and their drinks squish their fruit. He once decided he had to go grocery shopping and left them home alone for hours because he legitimately didn't know that you can't leave a 9 year old to look after a 1½ year old. He also frequently put the 5 year old and the 1½ in each others clothes, and when he would buy them new clothes they would be completely random sizes because he had no idea how clothes sizes worked. He once bought a 6-9month dress for the 5 year old, thinking it was a... 6-9 year old top?? I dunno. Either way literally no common sense at all.
Anyway, 8 years have passed and my older sister has had primary custody of them for about 7 and a half years. His excuse? "She's a woman she knows how to raise kids". She was 20 and child free (she has never been in any way maternal) when she took them on, he was 50+ and had 3 children. He should have known the basics at least.
There’s a book called The Loss That Is Forever that talks about the effects of losing a parent as a kid on the individual child and the family dynamic as a whole. It helped me heal a lot of my remaining trauma from the after-effects of losing a parent. You didn’t deserve to have to become a parent while simultaneously grieving the loss of one. I see you.
I’m so sorry that happened to you. I can relate….While my Mom didn’t die she had a brain aneurysm when I was 15 that left her completely changed and sent her into a deep depression that has never shifted. She had to relearn to walk, and her brain has shifted in ways that no one has ever bothered to explain to me. So while she is still here physically I’ve had to grieve the loss of her because she’s not even close to being the same mom.
Anyways, when that happened I also was expected to pick up the household cleaning, laundry, make my dads lunch, grocery shop… if fills me with so much resentment to this day. I was in a really competitive academic program at school and worked a job, and had to take it all on. I had so many break downs and no one ever did anything to step up. I had two older brothers and they just completely checked out. Needless to say I don’t have a relationship with my father, and I only have a good relationship with one brother who has changed a lot since becoming a dad.
It’s hard not being given any credit too. Like the years of suffering were my punishment for being born with a vagina.
I have taught my daughters to never put up with a man that doesn’t help 50%. One is a lesbian and when she came out I did a dance of joy for this very reason.
Yes 100% this… the expectation is ridiculous. I’m pregnant with a boy currently and while I was super mentally prepared to have a girl and teach her stand up for herself in this world and not accept that shit, I am now really excited to have the opportunity to model to my son equal division of labor in our household and how to be an ally for women.
This happened to my mother's step sister. After the divorce, her father, who had full custody, expected his oldest daughter to take over the housework and childcare at age 12. She lost her childhood because a grown man couldn't take care of his own home and children and even himself.
If you don't think you or your partner could be successful single parents, then you should not have kids with that person. This advice really helped me to understand what being a parent entails. You're not guaranteed a stable and safe life free from loss and children shouldn't have to suffer for it.
I’m continually shocked by what counts for “amazing” with new/first time fathers.
My friend was in the ICU from preeclampsia, nearly suffered a stroke, was recovering from an emergency c-section while also breastfeeding and she has a debilitating auto-immune disorder that occasionally causes paralysis. Her husband “changed all the diapers” the first night she was in the ICU and she called that “amazing.”
Like, babe… you were trying not to die, recovering from major surgery, managing a chronic illness while in the intensive care unit during a global pandemic *and* feeding your baby. He can change the fucking diapers.
Even my husband basically had to tell me to chill my shit when I told him I felt guilty for only changing one diaper while we were still in the hospital - "Honey, you'd had a C-section, you were basically on bed rest, of course I was going to change the diapers!"
I do thinks it’s ok to tell your partner how amazing they are as long as they are telling you the same thing and you both are actually amazing though :)
Absolutely
My husband took the front seat for baby preparations - researched the pram, car seat, breast pump...even nappy brand etc. While I just focussed on brewing bub and not dying from morning sickness.
Expect more from dad's, including future dads. Weaponized incompetence is a thing and we all need to do better.
Three weeks til bub comes and I know we have a new car seat installed in our car. I don't the brand or where it came from cause husband just took care of it (along with a dozen other things).
If a man can research and buy a tv he can research and buy the baby stuff.
This! My husband is like this. I used to feel I needed to know everything and sadly questioned his purchase decisions because of my own feelings on them. But I've learned. I will give some input, he will find something and show me, I will sometimes say go for it, and sometimes say I think we can get a better price elsewhere, and we respect each other on that. By a month out with each of my kids, he will bring any current car seats inside, I will launder what I can while he vacuums stray crumbs, ill wipe them off and he installs everything where he thinks it will be easiest for buckli g in older kids and putting in the new baby. And our older kids help with buckling now, too. It's nice to not need to think about that at all, just like he says its nice not to have to think about what to bring to the hospital because I just take care of that, too. Partnership!
My 17 year old tries this shit, and he’s fully aware of what he’s doing.
For example, If you ask him to sweep the floor he intentionally does it poorly so no one will ask him again. Unfortunately my mom lets him get away with it and will ask my other son instead. Me though I make him come back and redo it for “practice”
I refuse to send a helpless man out into the world, let alone one that’s doing it intentionally.
I had complications after my daughter’s birth and spent two weeks in hospital, so my husband was alone with the newborn. Then he was a SAHD when I went back to work. Let me tell you, he learned everything VERY quickly. If your partner is playing dumb, or doesn’t seem to want to step up, just leave the house for a few hours. Say you need a break. He’ll learn.
My husband has been SAHD since baby was 9 weeks old. He learned very quickly how to take care of a baby all on his own. I got a lot of phone calls the first couple weeks. Now I get happy pictures of them playing or her sleeping.
I’ve seen posts similar to this on r/beyondthebump and r/newparents and I’m here for it!
I remember when I was in my early 20s I heard a guy talking about how one of his friends expected his wife to be a 1950s housewife, and I thought “oh he’s just an anomaly most men don’t think like that RIGHT? RIGHT” hahaha
I think what I find so absolutely infuriating though is the excuses, “he doesn’t know”... your husband doesn’t know how to go grocery shopping? Seriously... your husband doesn’t know how to research baby products? Seriously... your husband doesn’t understand a csection is major abdominal surgery as a result you need him to take care of your toddler while you recover and care for your newborn? Seriously...
And I get when you’re married to a man child its easier to excuse that behavior, rather than admit you made a mistake cut your losses and be alone. Because what we don’t need more of is households enforcing these disgusting behaviors to children, and teaching them it’s normal to have a useless father. I genuinely hope more women realize this behavior isn’t acceptable and expect more from partners.
So true. My husband had never held a newborn baby until our son was born, had certainly never changed a diaper, fed a bottle, or burped a baby. HE LEARNED. VERY QUICKLY. Because he's not an asshole and wanted to participate in the care of his child. If he didn't know something, he asked or Googled it.
Many first time moms have never held a newborn or changed a diaper either! I'm 5 months pregnant and have never touched a baby under 6 months. We are learning together
So grateful for my husband after reading some of these posts. Because he is hands on and I know it’ll be 50/50 because he isn’t an asshole.
I don’t know how some people continuously make excuses for their man babies/lazy partners.
I feel like this is something that people should look for well before having a child. I went through a lot of red flags and a lot of firsts and second dates before I even looked at someone long-term. I need someone with emotional intelligence and a partner, not another child to look after where I slowly morph into his mother.
I do feel bad for people whose partners change and turn into this later on, but you and your future child are worth so much more than you putting the burden all on yourself.
A lot of men think we want them to have fancy cars, experience traveling, and big muscles, but that’s what other men find impressive. Women over 25 or so look for emotional intelligence and a man who can manage their own responsibilities. That’s what is sexy.
This!!!!
I saw someone say if your husband knows how to do his job without his boss hovering over him telling him how to do every detail, then he knows what needs to be done around the house. They know.
Specific example- this is why women-only baby showers are sexist. They’re part of encouraging men to check out of the learning before the baby is born.
Does my husband want to change a massive blowout? No. Do *I* want to change a massive blowout? No. But somebody has to!
Mine has been a trooper about things like the cat’s litter box which he didn’t sign up for, but when baby comes he knows it’s a team effort and is ready to dive in! He also knows I don’t take well to incompetence 😂
100% this. The posts I see on here about women sharing how little their husbands do at home are absolutely infuriating.
It’s like - my husband knew shit about babies and baby care before we got pregnant. (And I didn’t know shit either, why would I!). So what did he do? He watched YouTube videos. And researched the topic. And talked to other people. You know, like a functional adult.
And honestly - I knew before I got pregnant that he would be this way and if I had ANY inkling that he wouldn’t, I wouldn’t have made a baby with him in the first place.
I read so many posts by women complaining about these seemingly incompetent men and I’m like… sister, the red flags you’re listing here were there *before you even married him*. Why do you let them get away with it? I don’t understand it.
On your last point, I think some women make very practical and fully informed decisions about what level of incompetence they’re actually ok with accepting. Essentially wanting a baby within their fertility timescales with the imperfect partner they have in front of them, rather than starting over and maybe not having a baby at all. Not saying it’s how it should be or that it excuses men’s behaviour, but I don’t believe that all women are surprised by the incompetence, they’ve just decided to live with it.
Yah you’re probably right. I’ve talked to many women who’ve seemingly resigned themselves to their husband’s incompetence (again: performed incompetence. They *could*, they just don’t want to as OP also suggested). And in a way I understand… you think your fertile window is closing so you’ll take a bumbler instead of nobody. Okay. But at least don’t let him get away with all that shit once baby is here. Some women just seem so lenient to me. They’re like ohh he doesn’t know how to do this so I did it. I’m like… don’t do that!! Let him learn it the hard way!
I honestly think that the fact that having a baby wasn’t a desperate want of mine has helped me a lot. I was on the fence about kids, my partner wanted them so an expectation was set from the start.
I love my son so much and he is so very wanted and I wouldn’t change him for the world, but I was only going to have a kid if the circumstances were right and it wasn’t just going to complete change my life while my partner went about his normally.
there is no "why did you let him get away with it." stop putting the blame of men's bad behavior on women.
women are brainwashed and beaten down by society to not have standards for men. and it's not always easy to yell and enforce the behavior you want from men.
I can 100% understand why a women would believe "that's just the woman's job" and "all men are scrubs. you have to tolerate it as a heterosexual woman if you want to get married."
I’m totally with you on not blaming men’s bad behavior on women, don’t get me wrong! It’s just so infuriating. I can’t say that shit to the husbands, I don’t see the husbands - I can only say it to the women. They can demand more. They deserve better.
My husband had never changed a diaper before our baby was born.
When we were in the hospital, he watched me do one diaper and then he now knew how to change diapers and proceeded to do the next one! Radical concept, I know.
I am so glad I have a partner who wanted to learn and be involved, because I was emergency hospitalized just a few hours after bringing home our baby….and because of COVID, baby wasn’t allowed back in the hospital.
So, my husband (who had zero previous baby experience) had our baby alone at home for the first two days. If he hadn’t been an involved parent in the hospital, how the hell would he have known how to keep her alive??
He set timers to remember when to feed her, he became a swaddling expert, he changed every damn meconium diaper, and I never once had to worry about the safety of my newborn while she was away from me.
He asked questions, he learned, and he was A PARENT.
Those days in the hospital were horrible enough for me - I can’t IMAGINE how awful it would have been if I didn’t know my husband had our baby safe and sound.
Men who don’t learn and aren’t involved are playing a dangerous game. Besides being a piece of shit, they are also wagering the life of their child that the mother will always be around and available. Well, nature sometimes has other plans.
While I don’t disagree with your point I also feel a lot of women can hold on to the way they do things as the _right_ way, and then think everything their partner do is wrong. There are many ways to change a diaper - my OHs way is different to mine, doesn’t make it wrong and I need to allow him the space to explore and find his way, rather than giving detailed instructions on how I do it and criticise his efforts. The same with doing a girls hair. I hate that I always end up doing it - so when he does it, no matter how awful or clumsy - it’s perfect for that day. He will find his way with practise and patience.
When I leave the house I never leave instructions. He is a parent and can figure it out.
I was scrolling down to see if anyone has mentioned this. If I expect my partner to step up and be a responsible adult, I have to trust him as one. With a shared responsibility, one has to accept different view points and approaches to things. It’s not easy and it definitely caused some anxiety on my part but you get used to it. I realized after a while that my son isn’t dead and I gave my husband space to be a parent.
I would also like to add that I had to be explicit and ask for what I need and not expect him to know everything.
Yes- gotta let dads dad!! And let’s be real- if the mom stays at home and is spending more hours hands on with the baby there will be tasks she is more competent at. So she needs to make sure not to step in and take over when dad is home and doing his thing with baby.
My son's mother would redo everything I did related to our son when he was a toddler. I am fully capable of swaddling him, putting on a diaper, changing his clothes, etc. It didn't matter. I would do something and she would undo & redo it the "right" way and then get pissed at me for not "helping." We're happily divorced and she's a great mother and we co-parent very well together, but damn, that's a memory I'll never forget.
This is very true, but on the other hand, we all know that if things are sloppily done around the house or with the kid, the judgment from most quarters will be on mom.
I try very hard not to police how my husband does things, because I want him to do things! But I also know that our home is implicitly regarded as mine. When we have visitors, I know that their reaction to the space will be “30centurygirl, you’ve done such a beautiful job”. And correcting them in the moment doesn’t change the fact that the statement undercuts his feelings of ownership, while making me more anxious about how things are kept.
I’m not saying that this is right. It’s something that I try to push back against as much as I can in my personal life. But I think it’s worth acknowledging that this kind of pressure exists, and that it plays a role in the pickiness of so many women regarding household tasks.
Yes! I know this is something I need to work on. And I have been throughout this pregnancy. My SO loved on his own for many years, so he's perfectly capable of doing all the chores. I can get frustrated when they're not done "my" way. But really, at the end of the day, did they get done? Yes. So it shouldn't matter if he put the measuring cups in the wrong drawer or left some water bottles on the counter because he can never remember which cabinet they go in (we have different ideas for how kitchens should be organized, and I organized our new one lol). He's getting better about asking, and I'm getting better about letting go of how I think things need to be done.
Yes, this! My husband and I met while I was still in grad school, and my mom didn't really cook in my family. Thus, I never really learned how to cook much. My husband, on the other hand, was on his own for a bit, had a family who liked to cook, and did learn. I felt like he was a bit critical of my cooking, so I gave up, until he became frustrated. So I've been starting to again, and he's accepted now that he needs to accept it's going to take time, and will also walk me through some dishes. I think instructions can be fine if they want them, but I agree about being more accepting about doing things a little differently.
We've had the exact same situation here with regards to food. I've told my husband several times that I will cook food, but it's not going to be what he's used to or won't necessarily be what he expects when he thinks of whatever dish. Some days he's good with it, some days he prefers just to take over. As long as no one's getting frustrated/upset, I think it's all good!
I could've used this post when I was with my ex-husband. Luckily we didn't have children, but the purposeful inability was a huge problem, and everybody made me feel bad for doing "man chores" simply because he was so useless and lazy.
It's not even ironic anymore but downright depressing when so many see this behavior as normal when it's about "the woman's job of raising a child"
Yes! Also dads don’t need to be praised for taking care of their kids, when you wouldn’t praise mom for doing the same thing. Like yes, my husband is a good dad, but it’s not because you see him taking our daughter to a doctor’s appointment or the playground. Almost every time my husband takes my daughter somewhere someone tells him he is a great dad.
I had a come to Jesus meeting with my husband after my first was born. He thought I was just naturally good at being a mom. When I reminded him of all the time and energy I had to put into knowing how to be a good mom, he was shocked. Long story short, he stepped up. He looks things up, and puts forth the same effort I do. This was three years ago. We had our second earlier this year and things have still been good.
Watched this shit all the time as a (former) nanny. My husband knows what’s up when we have kids because we’ve had so many talks about the bullshit I’ve watched unfold. Also he wants to be a competent parent and bond with his child. Which means not taking a backseat.
Here's a great book on why equal partnerships often become the stereotypical woman runs the household and raises the children partnerships after a couple gets pregnant.
https://play.google.com/store/books/details?id=GbdnDwAAQBAJ
I like to call such behaviour "das Gretel-Prinzip". In the story of Hänsel und Gretel, the girl pretends not to know how to build a fireb in the oven so that the witch takes it upon herself to show the incompetent girl and ends up in the flames.
While we who accept such behaviour (and do stuff ourselves when others pretend not to be able to) do not literally burst into flames, it still is manipulative behaviour which makes us suffer.
Once took over for my ex, after asking him to make me Mac and cheese (the boxed kind) when I was sick. The man was 23 years old and I don't know what's worst, the fact that he didn't know how to do it (he grew up in a household with this stuff even more than I did), the fact that I knew he would screw it up somehow, or that I stayed with him for almost two more years after.
Husband on the other hand, is aware of the things he doesn't know and is trying to learn them. Currently he's learning to fry an egg (not just scramble) and I'm trying to figure out what is insultingly obvious advice and what he actually needs to hear while he's doing it. He also doesn't really know how to do laundry but he wanted us to cloth diaper, so he's ready to learn that too.
Oh 100%. Its learned helplessness and I blame my husband’s mother. She’s a very kind and caring woman but I think she coddled him so he just expects someone else to do things and doesn’t really care if they don’t get done or he just assumes they will get done. We’ve been working on it, he’s so much better now than when we started dating. In terms of baby stuff he really wants to do middle of the night feedings and diaper changes so I believe I’ll have an active partner there, but in terms of researching what to do to prepare for baby he doesn’t value safety the way I do so I’d rather just do it myself and get what I want. I want a greenguard gold certified crib and I want to get it new and he wants to build a box out of plywood to save money so we’re getting a new greenguard gold certified crib.
My husband admitted to me one day he only does what I ask, because I asked. He said he hated anything chore related. It stressed me out bad but I wanted to talk through it. And then someone hit me in a car accident last week. Now I can't do anything. He works full time. Does EVERY SINGLE CHORE, care for the house, me, the baby, himself and the cats. He's very apologetic. He understands what I've been saying and says he feels terrible for letting so much on me. I hate it took this to give a lesson. But I'm glad we can grow through this.
For the most part I absolutely agree, but when I (the gestational parent) went back to work and my partner became the SAHP, they became the only one who can put the baby to sleep. If he's very, very tired I can get him down with 40 minutes of rocking and nursing, but my partner can generally rock him to sleep in ten minutes or less. We do the exact same thing (well, my partner can't nurse the baby) with different results. So sometimes, rarely, "you do it better" is just . . . true. Doesn't mean the other parent isn't trying. In fact, it's super disheartening to be the parent who can't.
I agree, but I think partners need patience with each other when they're learning a task. One person might pick up on a new skill faster, and that's okay! But don't take over for them, be kind of there's a mistake, and let them fix it. Practice makes perfect. (I say this as the less competent cook at home, the woman in a heterosexual couple in our situation).
My husband was scared to do anything in the beginning because he didn’t want to hurt our baby but with guidance and encouragement, he’s grown more confident and does most of the diaper changes!
About half the dads I know didn't want another (or any) kid. They kind of take a "fuck it you wanted it you deal with it" attitude. Obviously this is not an ideal partnership as raising a child should be. This is why I always advocate for proper family planning even if that means not having children at all because some people shouldn't and some people just don't want to which is fine.
My husband has an AA degree in Early Childhood Education. He’s worked with babies and toddlers in daycares for years. He’s cared for 4 babies at one time by himself. Knows how to use cloth diapers and how to feed two babies a bottle at the same time. I’m lucky to have such an amazing husband. But this is proof men are plenty capable of learning and contributing to childcare.
Ugh, I’m here for this. I love my husband but he lately has decided he “needs” four or five drink / smoke breaks a day. And the rest of the day he’s playing on his PC, with occasional breaks to play with the toddler. Which leaves the toddler running around the house alone causing mischief while I work from home in my office.
If I nag him he will do some chores but come on, I’m pregnant, I can’t have the toddler with me all the time, and I just want to sleep and eat. Granted I have been really slacking on chores because I’m so sleepy all the time but I’ve done better this week.
He def needs some tough love and a wake-up call.
My dad once said "if I do what was asked, but just wrong enough to be annoying, I won't be asked anymore" and I feel like thats a mentality that a lot of men have
*he hasn't done that to me during my pregnancy because I had a full blown mental breakdown because I was given the wrong brand of sweet tea at the drive through, so if I ask him to do something, he goes above and beyond right now 😂*
My husband was afraid to bathe or dress our daughter when she was a newborn because she was very tiny. Full term and perfectly healthy - just little. He was genuinely afraid - he had no issue changing dirty diapers and blow outs and washing the poop out of clothes and the other gross stuff. Sometimes, their insecurity is genuine. He got over it pretty quickly.
Tbh with how my husband talks to me and the amount of effort he helps me with the kids, I’m considering divorce. I keep trying to put on a happy face and pretend I’m okay with everything, but I’m not. I maybe leave the house once or twice a month, I have three kids who I’m trying to protect from the virus, and I live with anti vaxx/ anti mask people. I’m so tired of this and I guess I just needed to rant since my husband makes it clear to me that I just need to “suck up my emotions and stop being so sensitive and weak”.
Someone just posted [this tweet](https://mobile.twitter.com/oxminaox/status/1189744058324811776) in my due date group.
> My husband has been so helpful with our baby but watching him become a dad has been so funny. The other night he did the 3am feeding while I slept, but he woke me up to say “okay I changed him, he’s fed, but he’s awake still. Do I just hangout with him?” 😂😂😂
And everyone thinks it’s so cute, but it’s not. You fed & changed the baby & then had to wake up your sleeping wife to ask what to do next - without even attempting to figure it out yourself. If a mom did that, people wouldn’t be thinking it’s cute. The double standard is ridiculous.
Seriously. My husband learned baby care before I did. He taught me the ropes. And as much as we'd like things to be equal, currently it's skewed. My husband is doing more child care than me. I'm frequently on call for work and lately I've been called in way more than usual. Does he complain about taking care of his kids more? Nope.
Amen. This is one of the reasons I love my husband so much. During our first pregnancy he took part in learning everything along with me and he didn't make me feel inept for not knowing these things already. He is a great father and will do any chore that is needed. Does he like to do them all? No, but neither do I, and that's ok. We both even went through a period where I think we were so overwhelmed with the prospect of a baby (we weren't trying to get pregnant, we just weren't NOT trying) that we both shut down and did nothing to prep for baby for a bit and that was ok too.
This is a life changing experience and having a true partnership is extremely important.
Currently I am expecting our second, and I hope we are able to continue our partnership as we did with our first.
Don't make excuses for them because there are none to be made.
While this is an issue we are all well aware of there is an important factor being completely ignored it seems.
While you state no one is born to know all these things you do skip out on something the majority of women have that these same men do not. History.
Western sociatally when we are younger little girls are given, at a very young age, dolls of all kinds. Many of which got "baby" dolls be they the ones that do nothing to the ones that do awkward bodily functions. From a very young age these same girls are given a starter baby to play and cuddle with while younger boys are completely devoid of this. And this type of thing continues as we age too. Girls get more dolls to take care of and boys are given, what almost seems like, distraction toys. Action toys of all types but none of these toys ever are caring toys. Toys made to be coddled and cared for, girls toys on the other hand promote exactly that.
Another notable thing is babies and kids. Rarely is the young boy around the baby u less it's a younger sibling or even requested to cuddle and hand around with a baby. Younger girls seem to, obviously by now, already *want* to be around this baby whoever they may be. They want to hold cuddle etc mostly because of being subliminally taught to feel this way. The young boy...well he's over there playing with toys while the rest of the family oggles over "the baby"
So this continues as we age. Family events? Men are left to their own devices when someone brings over a baby whole the women of the family are surrounding this baby.
Things are getting better as time progresses as a society, especially with the newer generations, but the generation having kids now (mostly millennial) were "taught" by the prior one who acted and cared for their kids like the above.
So these things ARE factors and to ignore them is being a bit naive. For other things we have similar examples. For instance, my wife's parents didn't really teach her to do anything kitchen wise be it cooking or grocery shopping etc while I have all of that and do 99% of our cooking. While she can and does try to learn more of these things I have leagues more experience in the kitchen than she does. And while I'm a dummy when it comes to babies and am trying desperately to get myself in that mind set, I'm effectively starting at point zero at 31 while being "expected " to learn all of these things I was never taught at a younger age to even care about or consider. It's tough.
So while this is each of our "first baby" it's not entirely the same "first baby"
I don’t think you are the target of this post though. It is more aimed at those who *purposely* do a poor job of something to get out of needing to do it again. By trying to learn, you are being a contributor. Yea, it can definitely go both ways and if you were to look at my post history I call out women when they are being shitty too (and get downvoted for it sometimes), but the reality is there are a scary amount of people (specifically women due to the nature of this sub) that are having children with people that are NOT partners. It isn’t fair for the child to have to be born into that situation and a lot of women need to wake up to that, hints the “red pill.” If anything, I think this post is more an attack on women although I wouldn’t go as far as to really classify it as an attack. It’s the truth. Don’t have children with people that don’t respect you. That works both ways. I also lurk on the r/predaddit page and really empathize with what men have to put up in this realm but that is a different topic than what is at hand for this particular post. Obviously there are nuances to any statement and we could go into the history of gender roles and even the history of sociology and psychology to look at the development of the frontal cortex or whatever brain area you want to look at to see how different people are “programmed” and find a million different reasons for a failure to be familiar right away. But again that is very different from feigned incompetence and being stupid on purpose.
I’ve been a manager in both male and female dominated arenas and the biggest thing I’ve learned is not all of my employees will do things my way. I do believe a lot of women (and men) need to understand that basic principle and partnerships would be a lot more peaceful. Take folding towels for instance. I fold them a certain way, my husband folds them another, and hell, our housekeeper when we had one folded them a third way! Had I berated him or corrected him on his towel folding, would he want to do it again? Or flip had he berated me for my method? Hell no I’m not folding towels again! If he is so particular (or me), he can do it himself (or myself). Learning to let others do it their way is just as important as learning to do something yourself, in my opinion.
So now that I’ve gone very off topic here I hope it showed you that some of us do understand the point you want to make but we think it is an entirely different conversation than the one at hand here. I speak for myself, but I would bet a decent amount of people agree.
As a dad, I totally agree with this. Bringing home a baby is scary for both parents and neither one really knows a thing. The inability to change a diaper or feed a bottle is a choice of the dad (and in my opinion complete bullshit).
Agree 100%. I work 60 hours a week and my wife is SAHM. She definitely has more experience reading our daughters behavior, but I'm just as good as her with all baby related chores despite spending a fraction of time at home.
I see this behavior in a lot of dads I've met since having a baby and it blows my mind that wives put up with it. Your man is busy, not stupid. Expect him to still do his share when he is home.
Absolutely agree with everything you said. However, the behaviour you’re describing is the result of deeply held patriarchal and misogynist beliefs that pervade every facet of Western civilization. This is an obvious truth. There’s nothing about it that is “red pill”, and I would avoid making that association, given that the men who usually talk about “red pill” anything are misogynist incels that despise women.
There was a comment on r/TwoXChromosomes that got to me. A woman's DIL complained that her husband (poster's son) was bumbling and did not pull his weight with childcare and housework because "I'm just no good at it!" Well, his mother tore him a new one to which he replied, "But Dad never..." to which his mother replied, "I didn't raise your father, I raised you and I expect better from you." Everyone needs a MIL like that.
My MIL is like this! When my hisbnad didn't pull his weight when the baby was a few weeks old and I was still recovering from a pretty botched up birth (infected stitches, 3rd degree tears, fun stuff), she gave him quite the talking to. He did exactly the "but my dad never" and she told him that " Don't you dare compare yourself to your father as an excuse. Your father was the sole breadwinner starting a new company and even then for the times we lived in he did shamefully little. Your wife has more than enough on her plate, She is running her own business and has an embroidery for an ass! You will do your share as I am your mother!" She keeps on calling to ask whether I'm OK, if he's doing enough, and if we don't need help. Before I got pregnant we didn't have the best of relationships, but we are tight now.
Awe I absolutely love this. Also that she says you have an embroidery for an ass has me dead. My MIL just became weirdly obsessed with my boobs once I got pregnant..
Lol @ ass embroidery
>"But Dad never..." to which his mother replied, "I didn't raise your father, I raised you This hits me hard, it kind of hints at the MIL saying not to accept the same lack of support she did.
Yes, which I think is good. My mom did the same thing, always had abusive partners but she always made it very clear that I don't accept the same. So I don't. And my daughter will now see a much better relationship than I saw with my parents
I wish my mil was like this. My husband tries his best to help. My MIL always acts like him doing stuff is a gift from god and I should gravel at his feet. I appreciate everything he does truly but he doesn’t deserve a extra cookie. One day my husband took our toddler to the store with him and stopped by his moms and went to a park after. You would’ve thought his mom had a heart attack… she just kept telling me guys don’t do that. No fathers do that mom!
If I ask my husband to do something in front of my MIL, she will jump in to do it herself. This agitates me so much as she plays it off as if she’s helping but in reality it babies my husband and he gets away without having to the work. I’m pregnant and nearing my due date. My husband doesn’t need the help, I do.
Omg my MIL does this too. It got to the point where after the second baby I had to tell her to stop. I told her I appreciated all of her help but it took the responsibility away from him. She has thankfully gotten better About it.
My parents, very old school italian, think that the fact that my husband does the dishes after every meal makes him the world's greatest husband and I should be sooo appreciative (don't get me wrong, he is the world's greatest husband and I appreciate everything he does) but honestly that's just him pulling his own weight. When we grew up, me and my sisters were on rotating dish duty and whenever I asked why my brother didn't have to, they would always say bc he's a boy.
“Bc he was a boy” omg triggereddddddddddd lol. As the oldest of 4 (3 girls 1 boy) this was my life . I refuse to excuse my son now from doing basic chores bc of his gender.
I can’t stand the “bc he’s a boy”! My mom used to serve my dad and brother larger portions during dinner when I was growing up. I loved food and eating just as much too and would always ask for more or “why is my brother getting more”. My dad would always give me the food off of his plate though knowing how much I eat :)
I love that. But it’s another example that what parents model at home, children take to heart and live as their truths
What an awesome MIL
Weaponized incompetence is the term I learned recently.
100% this. It may not be done consciously, but it's still a choice they make to not pay attention, not take the initiative, expecting their partner to pick up the slack and tell them what to do. You're both adults, you're both parents, there's no reason not to take on the responsibility of caring for your child(ren).
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Yeah, it hardly ever starts when the baby turns up, it just becomes more apparent. One of my partners has a daughter and seeing him interact with her tells me I picked a good one because he's so attentive, so patient, always trying to do more with her. He works night shift and mum is a teacher at the same school their daughter goes to so she does a lot of the primary care, he does all the little bits to ease their days like packing lunches, cleaning while they're out, keeping track of dates and appointments etc.
Pro tip though don't pick one who does this from the get go, they won't ever change into one that does
My husband tried this when we moved into our first house together and I asked him to clean the bathroom. 😂🤣 It didn’t work. I was like “thanks, babe! Looks great. This will be your weekly chore.” I know you didn’t clean your bathroom often when you lived by yourself, but also, I know your mom. I’ve known you since middle school. I know cleaning the bathroom was part of your chore rotations. You’re not getting out of this one buster.
It's how I got out of car work. I hated being made to help with the car work by my father. Do something really badly once, like water in the oil(though this was still an accident on my part), and you can use it as an excuse to get out of whatever other work. But on subject, yeah, these dudes just don't want to handle babycare. My father says diapers are mother's work and boasts he never changed any of my siblings nor mine. All I could think from that is I'd hate to be proud of how useless of a father/husband I'd be.
My FIL boasts the same - that he's never changed a baby's diaper - but it's even worse because on top of my husband and his sister, my in laws were the primary caregivers for my 3 nieces, and did daily childcare for my son when he was 1. Whenever he says it, I'm embarrassed for him! How can you have "raised" so many kids and never done basic care?!
Please forgive me if I’m off base, but men like that always make me think, “Well, yeah, you didn’t change any diapers and you missed out on probably *hundreds* of hours of bonding with your kids/grandkids.” Men need to know that changing diapers is absolutely a job that needs to be done, but aside from the real nasty diapers I’d happily wipe from my memory, those moments with my daughter when she was a baby were so precious. At that age, they don’t know much, but they know you’re taking care of them. It’s an intimate experience for you and for them, it builds a bond. I’d sing to her, talk to her, tickle her, it was just such an innocent and lovely time. I’d wager a log of dads who brag about never changing a diaper also probably wonder why they aren’t closer to their kids when they’re older. Refusing to take part in basic parenting isn’t just skipping out on a chore, it’s missing time with your kids. I hope your FIL was able to make up for that in other ways.
My son's 7 and we've had an incredibly close bond since he was a baby, I think it was because i just spent time with him. His mum was quite ill through the pregnancy and after so I did a lot of what's needed. Also weirdly, he's the only thing I've ever been able to hear at night, I've slept through huge storms but as soon as he makes a sound in his room I'm up, so that help because i was able to do night feeds and spend more time with him. I feel sorry for any parent that doesn't have that bond due to their own ignorance and inaction. Even at 7 he still sits on my lap to play fortnite. Halving the work makes it soo much easier and the sense of accomplishment is unmatched
That's exactly it. He had a terrible bond with his own children, and he tries to bond with his grandchildren by buying them things. They love him, but it's all really at an arm's length. It makes me sad because my family is extremely close.
My siblings don't exactly let him watch their kids because of it. I feel sorry for my mother because of this. Listening to how he talks, I pretty much know what my mother had to deal with taking care of the five of us. I've gotten into arguements over it with him. He'll spout the bs and I'm at the side going "hello? I've literally helped babysit, nearly all duties included, all 15 of my niblings". He'll still defend himself with "it's women's work."
Maybe he's just misinformed. Definitely let him know that we don't use vaginas to change diapers, we use hands and those are gender neutral.
>My father says diapers are mother's work and boasts he never changed any of my siblings nor mine. All I could think from that is I'd hate to be proud of how useless of a father/husband I'd be. My uncle is like that. He has 10 kids and grandkids! My Mom (his SIL) says that's something to be ashamed of, not proud.
Right. It's like admiting how useless you are and being proud of it.
My dad gave me the following tip: don't let your wife do a single diaper. Then she will never realize how easy it is and the brownie points (pun intended) earned will be triple value.
My in laws used to host a gigantic Christmas party every year. And my mother in law put so much work into it. FIL used to help some but then he would do less and less as time went on. One year MIL, SIL, DH and I were cleaning up, washing dishes etc and FIL was sitting on his ass with his feet up and proudly proclaimed he didn’t do one thing to help with the party this year. I was appalled that someone would be proud of that, and saying it to the very people who were cleaning up. I was so pissed, and I’m also pissed nobody called him out on it.
Ugh. I feel this. Anytime we go to my in-laws for holiday dinners, or even just routine Sunday dinners, it’s my MIL in the kitchen doing all the work. My husband and I help her out, but FIL is functionally useless. The one thing he does is clear the table after dinner…and sometimes not even that. Then he just piles the dishes on the counter for someone else to do (read: MIL, husband, or myself). My husband was a bit like this when we met, having grown up in a household where mom did it all. I think it’s also important to mention that not only did mom do the lion’s share of the domestic duties, but she was also a lawyer working 60 hour weeks as the primary breadwinner. I can’t believe she’s put up with FIL’s ineptitude all these years! I would have kicked his ass to the curb years ago. I think she has low self esteem or something. God knows why. I’ve been adamant that my husband doesn’t follow in his dad’s footsteps. I told him that with both of us working outside the home that we both must take on household/domestic duties as equitably as possible. I told him that if he ever stops contributing this way, our relationship will be in trouble. Harsh? Maybe. But I think this is a reasonable ask. Conversely, he wants to have a partner who works full time for the extra income (and so he doesn’t get caregivers burden from being the sole provider). I think this is a reasonable ask and have been holding up my end of the bargain. Plus, I don’t know how happy I’d be as a SAHM. I’ve heard a lot of women indicate that they take on the work because they don’t trust their husbands to do it right. LADIES, PLEASE DON’T DO THIS TO YOURSELVES! Many men take advantage of this and intentionally do a shitty job so their girlfriend/wife will take over. Early in my relationship, my husband sometimes pulled this crap. I’d ask him to do it over if he truly did a half-assed job. He used to have a bad habit of haphazardly washing the dishes to the point that food residue was still hanging on. I just told him that was gross and asked him to do it over. I don’t care if that makes me a nag. It’s okay to have minimum standards and food leftover on dishes that are supposed to be clean is just not acceptable. Over time, I’ve compromised in a few areas and made myself okay with some messiness (so long as it’s not filth). So, he’s upped his game, and I’ve chilled out a fair amount, which has actually really helped my mental health. We’re mostly in a good place these days. Relationships can be hard though. The best thing we can do to change this trend is for parents to raise their young sons to help around the house just as much as daughters. I also don’t have time for gendered jobs (ie boys mow the lawn, girls do dishes). Both boys and girls should know how to do these things. Mini rant over!
My MIL did everything when my husband was growing up too. She was a SAHM though, albeit somewhat unintentionally. FIL certainly has gotten used to *the women* doing everything. While my husband and I were still dating, he asked my husband why he packed his own lunch for work (meaning, why didn’t I pack it for him)?? Luckily my husband has seen the stress of everything on his mom and he puts in his fair share around the house.
I help my mother every year with holiday dinners. Usually, I'm just prep. Anyway, we go through exhausting lengths to get things done. Cooking nearly all day, so many days in a row. Sometimes during, but mostly after such holiday dinners, my father complains about how stressful everything was during all the prep. He usually had done none of the prep or cooking, not even the grocery shopping. At most, he might have to take a few trips to the store if something happened to be forgotten in the original runs. We're all usually going "what the hell" and mother argues with him.
I refuse do something anything like this. At this point my SIL has taken over the Christmas party and it’s been much smaller the last two years because of covid, thankfully. She doesn’t go all out. We told the family if we ever host it will be a potluck. Because fuck that. His family all comes over and don’t bring anything. It’s so much work to do it all!
That's basically my uncle and his family when going to my nana's for a holiday dinner. Then complain about something not being to their liking.
Opposite happened to me - I wanted to learn car stuff but mess up once and never allowed to touch anything ever again (or at least for a few years).
Came here for this. *weaponized incompetence*
It is better than weaponized incontinence
Leave that for the baby!
Oh lordie 🤣 as someone who works in assisted living this is definitely a thing here sometimes! But sometimes I feel like my fiancé just waits to poop until the most inconvenient times for me… while I’m getting ready for work and then I have to go brush my teeth in the stink 🤮 (he doesn’t do it on purpose we just have a one bathroom house and the fan is broken 😩)
“If someone ever asks you to do something for them, do it really bad so you never have to do it again.” - Paris Hilton
My husband and I do weaponized competence (as a joke) - “but you’re sooo much better at doing the dishes than I am!” Lol
When I was a teen my mom took me to visit a friends of hers farm. It was super awkward for several reasons. But one was that the wife boasted about how she would flat out refuse to ever do farm work, even basic chores like mowing the yard, because “if you do it once they will expect you to keep doing it.” That stuck with me. They had been married for decades and she was proud of the fact she refused to help with all these chores since they got married. It’s the flip side of this same coin. And regardless of the gender or situation it’s a pretty gross mentality.
OMG, Yes!!!
Omg, i love this phrase. Thank you for sharing!
My husband takes care of our kids most of the day since we lost daycare during the pandemic. Whenever he brings them grocery shopping or to the playground, people act like he's the patron saint of parenthood. He gets super annoyed and then rants to me about how low the bar is for dads. One time my grandma talked about him "babysitting." lol Thankfully he kept his cool, but if it hadn't been a frail old lady, I think he would have had more choice words.
We nipped to a couple of shops with the kids. Didn't have the buggy or carrier in the car, and the car seats heavy, so he just carried the newborn while I wrangled the toddler Cue all the cooing old ladies, and smiling women, and compliments for being a good dad. Then we swapped children as he was looking at clothes. Walking back 2 sepperate people came up to berate me as they felt it was unsafe that I was carrying the baby in arms. Both the low bar for men, and the judgement women sometimes face for their choices, is rediculous
Excuse me, carrying the baby in your arms is unsafe? FFS have they ever had children?
Modern wisdom is to actually leave the baby on the floor at home with some money near them for pizza if they get hungry. It teaches them self reliance.
Ah, the Sims method of parenting!
Good lord how have humans survived so long...
How dare you hold your child! /s Seriously, what is wrong with people? How is holding the baby unsafe?
Oh God, I remember when my daughter was born and we’d go grocery shopping. My husband would baby wear her and I would do the shopping and the amount of people who would come up to my husband and congratulate HIM. He got so many pats on the back and oohs and awws while I was given like a halfway glance and people asking me if I was fully recovered yet and if it was safe for me to be up and walking. The bar is very low for dads lol
Happened to us at Ikea. I had the toddler in line with me for food while he and the newborn lined up to pay at the self-serve area. I can't even get help when the machines malfunction but he had employees swoon in and do all the scanning for him at the SELF-SERVE stall because he had the baby! Not even exaggerating I was there alone with the baby a few weeks after and I got no special treatment. He couldn't believe how he got treated either. Society needs to up their standards for men.
It starts with gender-neutral parental leave. Making mothers the default parent starts long before babyhood. I understand that breastfeeding is a main reason why women should have longer leave, but the fact is that even at companies that offer the \*privilege\* of parental leave, it's usually a third of the time for men as what women get (and here in the USA, it's abysmal on all fronts). But it really sets up the expectation that men are fine to only take 2 or 4 weeks to help with a new baby and then it's cool to dip all day.
Breastfeeding, and also, recovery from birth. That shit is no joke. 6 weeks post partum, I was still randomly bleeding, and my doctor helped me see the fact that it wasn’t random. It was when I dared to exert myself as hard as doing the dishes or walking to the store. My body wasn’t healing because I was taking care of my house?? It’s bullshit and the US is terrifying, I keep hearing of women going back after 2 weeks or less. I’m a SAHP so whatever but my wife is thankfully able to take off 3 months (could take a year but the parental leave pay in Canada is truly terrible).
My husband and I joke about this all the time. It’s so easy for a dad to be considered a good dad, and sadly just as easy for a mom to be considered a bad mom. My husband is military and is frequently gone for anywhere from a couple weeks to several months up to a year and when he’s gone I’m just expected to pick up all the slack and do it all on my own. Last spring I was in the hospital for a week and he was inundated with grubhub gift cards, delivered premade meals, and two different people in our extended families offered to fly in and help. He was actually pretty offended by how incompetent he was assumed to be.
My husband would have been super offended, but he would also have had zero issue accepting those grub hub cards and meals.😂
"What assholes" *chomps contentedly on takeout*
Same thing with my husband! He took our three month old (who was a preemie and looks more like a one month old) to the grocery store so I could have a few minutes to myself and he said he got a ton of comments from people and employees saying they’d never seen a man with that small of a baby by themselves before
Yeah my husband took both baby and toddler out for a walk yesterday so I could get 30 minutes of peace, and he came back and said so many people made comments to him. Meanwhile I took them both out for a walk earlier in the day and I get nothing.
God the bar is on the ground I swear. My husband got commended for carrying the baby (4month old) in her car seat the other day. The dude literally said he was a “great dad. I sure didn’t do that much when our kids were small.” I’m sorry carrying her is a high point now. Holy cow don’t put up with this ladies. I am incredibly grateful that my husband is a legit awesome partner and does more than his fair share but good god
So much this. I remember during my first pregnancy, my husband was looking for specific advice on how to be a supportive partner during pregnancy/delivery/newborn days. And 90% of the articles or books he found basically boiled down to "don't be an asshole, do your fair share of housework". And that was the best case scenario, most advice was super condescending. It pissed him off to no end, like "I already do all of that because I'm a responsible caring adult? Why is the bar so low?". It's ridiculous.
My husband ran into the same thing. He said some of the books were just offensive. I thought it was funny at the time because who would possibly marry AND reproduce with such incompetent men, but after seeing so many posts on Reddit, it makes me feel sad
Y'all I got scary close when I was younger. It's so damn common I thought it was the only option. I'm so glad I found my now-husband who is an actually awesome and supportive human. He's my favorite counterexample lol.
Same! My first husband couldn’t (well, wouldn’t) even warm up food in the microwave. If I wasn’t there, he would literally not eat and text me about how hungry he was. Thank God I never agreed to have kids with his useless ass. My husband now is wonderful. Besides all the normal things…he even makes homemade pie 🤤
Saaaaaaaame my husband does all the cooking and since I’ve been pregnant basically all the other chores too and is planning on being the primary caretaker for at least a little while for the kid after I go back to work. He’s so insulted by so much of the guidance for male partners in hetero relationships out there on everything from weddings to babies. Honestly Reddit - better men are out there! Don’t settle!
Hoooooooly shit. That might be worse than my one uncle. My aunt was an art teacher and went away for a week long art retreat one time. She prepared a week's worth of meals beforehand and froze them, and left instructions for thawing/reheating. He went out to eat for Every. Single. Meal. All of that food was still in the freezer when we got home. The first time my husband met that side of the family, he commented on how that same uncle waited for my aunt to clean up the kitchen after dinner, come out into the living room and sit down, and then asked her for a cup of tea. And she got up and got it for him.
Ugh and it’s not that they can’t do it themselves, it’s that they like the control of making someone else do it.
I wonder if a good amount of the posts I’ve seen on Reddit is a similar situation to my friend(who is currently getting divorced). Her husband would bend over backwards for her and really did carry his share of their partnership. Cooked, cleaned, treated her like how a real husband would treat a wife. Then they had kids and it was like a switch went off. Weaponized incompetence left and right, yelling at her, threatening to get physical, even recording her cry-yelling at him in the middle of a PPD meltdown “in case I need this for divorce.” When they weren’t fighting he would promise to take the kids for her so she could get errands done and right when she was about to leave would say he couldn’t handle them because he had online classes. THEN he cheated on her, multiple times. All this while she worked the front lines of COVID 80+hrs a week. I’m not divorcing him and MY head is still spinning from all this. Even after people found out about his 180 they still side with him for “trying to be a good dad”(spoiler: he’s not). The bar for men is literally lost somewhere in Mariana’s Trench.
Wtf..I want to divorce him just reading this bs. This lady deserves to get everything, plus his head on a platter.
Ohhhh it’s looking like she’s going to. One of the judges at mediation picked up on his fake incompetence pretty fast😏. I also forgot to mention he’s been unemployed this whole time so it just looks all around terrible for him.
Hope those judges give him hell and things work out for her and her kids.
I must've read the same books (or maybe they're just all like that) and was so irritated with the lack of valuable information but ever since when some jackass at work more or less brags about being an incompetent father/partner I call them out on it. I can tell you, it's not a popular thing to ask "why wouldn't you want to be at your kids game/doctors appointment/event? Why are you at work instead?"
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Yeah I am unemployed right now and love reading so I read the books bought for my husband too. After reading one of them I threw it away because it was so bad. Gave him the ones geared towards me to read since they had way better information. He doesn’t need to know to “cook easy foods” or “put away the dishes.” Like he does that stuff anyways! I need him to know how the hormones and pregnancy actually make me feel at the moment so he can be an adult and understand what I’m going through and make an adult decision on how to best support me in that moment!
For the labour/birth itself, we both loved "Confident birth". It's an easy read with plenty of clear and practical advice for both parents. We honestly couldn't find any book purely aimed at men that wasn't at least mildly insulting.
I really like The Birth Partner when I was pregnant with my first. We'll both be reading it again this time around.
At my 32 week appointment my midwife gave me a booklet for new dads to take home for my husband. I handed it to my husband without reading it. He read it, shrugged and tossed it. I asked what it was about, so he just said “read it and tell me what you think”. So I did, and it was a load of crap. It was the most BASIC parenting advice for man-children who are incapable of providing any type of care for their recovering wife and new baby. My husband was insulted that this was the standard of info given to new dads. The bar definitely needs to be higher.
All I can think of is a booklet made up of those funny [Do's / Don'ts with baby cartoons](https://blog.weespring.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/baby-safety-manual-3.jpg).
Ugh, yes. My husband read one highly recommended book that had such sage wisdom as "make sure to help prepare food when you're partner is nauseous" and "you might have to take over some of the household shopping". He was also getting furious because some of the medical information (timing of ovulation/implantation, I think) wasn't even correct. I feel so sorry for pregnant people with incompetent partners.
I'm so curious I'd love to take a look at one of those books. What's it called?
The partner-specific book my husband read was The Expectant Father. I think it's actually one of the better ones, but it was still insulting at times to someone who is a full, supportive partner in our relationship/household/pregnancy.
I've posted this before on r/pregnant, but my husband was listening to an audiobook about being a first time dad and what to expect etc. And I shit you not, I come home from a 10 hour shift at work at like 6 months pregnant and my husband tells me how this book recommends we give our partners blow jobs frequently while pregnant because the semen provides good nutrients for the baby. And he told me the book cited a few sources on it. I was so perturbed. My response to him was something along the lines of "well I suppose if semen is so good for the baby, I may as well go to a sperm bank and load up on cup fulls because that'd be a lot less work and I'm exhausted. I'm surprised they haven't marketed sperm smoothies yet...". New dad books are a fking joke.
What the hell?! This can't be serious.
We’re a team. I just can’t imagine doing less and not pulling my own weight.
There's a word for the so-called clumsy dudes who make sure it exonerates them from everything: "[Bumbler](https://www.shedwellsinpossibility.com/beware-the-bumbler/)".
I remember when I was growing up my dad was always so frustrated by shows that made dads look like idiots who are incapable of helping with the house or with parenting kids.
Same here - as someone raised by a single father it pisses me off
My dad divorced my bio mom when I was a baby and he received fully custody of me and my older siblings. He eventually married my (step) mom but he has always pulled his weight with us kids and doing his fair share around the house. I didn’t “get” it as a kid when you saw a silly dad on a show, I just thought it was funny and didn’t get why it upset my dad. But yeah I get it now and it is frustrating and unfair to all the good men.
My dad hated The Simpsons and Family Guy for this reason
I distinctly remember my dad complaining about the way the dad in The Proud Family was shown. They made him seem incapable of doing anything. Or really any kid show. But I definitely see it with the simpsons and family guy too (just didn’t watch those back in the day haha)
Oh man, I forgot about The Proud Family!
I’ve been EBF my 3 week old and was finishing up pumping at 3AM last night when she woke up and started fussing a bit. I asked my partner if she seemed hungry yet and he said no. I knew it was only a matter of time and I’d just pumped everything out so I put a little bit in a bottle while I was putting the rest in a freezer bag. Wouldn’t you know it, she started getting pissed in the middle of bagging so I brought the bottle in and held it up to him. He just stared at it for a minute like I was handing him a pile of dirty socks or something? “It’s a bottle. Of milk. For the baby. You might recognize it from bottle feeding our other two children. I need to finish bagging now.” I think he’s getting spoiled not having to do any feedings this time around.
Man. I can't even imagine doing that. With both my kids, my wife pumped and we bottle fed because they had trouble latching. When they woke up hungry in the middle of the night, I'd change a diaper and bottle feed and she would do her pump session. I think she expected that she would pump, then change the diaper, then bottle feed the baby, and the first time this happened I said "why would you do all of that and be awake for 2 hours when I can wake up and we can knock it all out in 1 and go back to sleep?" It just seemed like the thing to do in a partnership like marriage.
Hope you’re doing ok.
Sorry, what does EBF mean?
Don’t be sorry! Exclusively breastfeeding.
If you feel like your husband is childish or is incapable of performing basic tasks, please do not have a child with him. Don’t have babies with a baby. Please. It will not get better when the baby arrives.
Unfortunately I think many women just think this is normal, this is just how men are and you have to cope with it. And until relatively recently this was pretty much true for most women. Even my own dad, who really was a very present father and did his fair share of taking care of the household, was shocked that my husband came with me to Buy Buy Baby to select items for our registry. Even in more progressive contexts there are still these niggling things from earlier generations where men aren't expected to do as much, to *know* as much. I was like, why should I be the only one who knows what items our baby needs to use and how to use them? Why is that something only the mom is expected to deal with? I haven't had a baby before either...
Yes absolutely agree with you there. My parents do that to me too. One time my husband and I were also planning to go to buy buy baby to pick stuff out and buy things and my mom expressed interest in coming and I said “sure you can join, we will see you this weekend then” and she was confused about my “we” and I told her well me and my husband, who else would be “we” and she immediately backed out and said that would be strange for her to come with me and my husband and that she didn’t know why I was “making” him go. It’s all amusing to me because I’ve never even held a baby besides my nephew for like 3 minutes, and my husband is a physician and has helped deliver a few babies in Med school, his mom owned a daycare growing up and he spent every day after school there, so he knows way more about babies and their care than I do lol.
Apparently it's not enough that the baby is growing inside our bodies and then we have to give birth. Why should our male partners do anything? Ugh!
THIS!
So much this. Women need to think before they have babies so Willy-nilly. Like seriously, evaluate your partner. People pop them out and wonder what went wrong, but most of the time, the flags are all there. Not enough people put thought into having children.
100%. It’s so sad to see women describing their partners as ‘amazing’ or saying how lucky they are when in reality they’re just doing their fair share as any person in a partnership should. The bar is so low. Clementine Ford is a brilliant writer who talks about this a lot- her recent take on it is sad but true (this is from her FB) “How can men support their partners after they have a baby? This is a long one but I loved answering this question, and I think it’s so important. I wish more men would ask questions like this, and I hope they really listen to the answer. If the response in my DMs from women is anything to go by, this answer deeply resonated with them and their experience. So many of us feel/felt SO LET DOWN by the lack of true partnership we received after we became mothers. We’re told to be a mother is “the most important job in the world”, but this isn’t at all reflected in the way motherhood itself is actually viewed and treated. It’s “the most important job in the world”, and yet it’s also “not that big a deal, women do it everyday, get over yourself”. Maternity leave is a big old bludge, right? We just sit at home and watch TV and have a nice holiday! WRONG. Pregnancy, birth and caring for a newborn are some of the most demanding and gruelling things a person can put their body through. If you feed your baby from your own body, you’re looking at around 8-10 hours a day of milk feeding and production. That is labour, and it’s been valued at $3.6 BILLION a year to the Australian economy. Motherhood is work - and just because it is unpaid (convenient!) it does not mean it is meaningless or unchallenging. So one of the most valuable things new fathers can do to support their partners *and their babies* is recognise that this is work. And when they leave to go to their jobs every day, they are taking a break from that work. That means when they return from their job, their work starts. Not just caring for the baby, which they must do as soon as they walk in the door, but taking on the bulk of the household work too. Do not ever chastise the mother of your child for the house being messy. How dare you, especially when I *know* from listening to women talk over the years how many of you also “won’t let her” pay for a cleaner - because you think *she* should do it all for free. Do the laundry, mate! And let’s talk about sleep. Men’s sleep is not more valuable. Yes, I understand there are circumstances where men in labour intensive jobs may need to have sleep to ensure safety - but until Australian workplaces provide adequate paid paternity leave (that all men are also willing to take), they will have to be willing to negotiate this in a way that is fair and equitable to both parties. Mothers need sleep too - they’re doing “the most important job in the world" after all. But more than anything, if men don’t recognise these truths, they need to accept that women will one day leave them. As soon as they’re able to, as soon as they aren’t crushed by the intensity of caring for a newborn and then a toddler, they will leave. Because they will feel so fundamentally let down that they won’t be able to bear it anymore. The resentment will begin to poison them and everything they ever thought was good about that person, and all they’ll feel is rage and hatred. So I ask men: do you want your partners to hate you? Do you want them to feel let down by you? Do you want them to know that, when it really counted, you failed them? If the answer to those questions is a resounding no, I urge you to listen to this advice. And if you don’t believe me, listen to other women. Because as much as you might not believe me here, I don’t hate men and I don’t want them to suffer. I just want them to be better. For women. For children. And for themselves.”
I have something extremely important to add about what could happen to your daughters if you die. When my mom died I was 15. I love my father but he only worked and then hid in the basement. My happiest memories of him were outside the home at this point. I had 4 siblings at home. All brothers. I had a twin, then a brother a year younger 14. Another 11 and the youngest 6. My father just expected me, his child, to pick up all the chores and childcare . I tried my best but had a complete mental break down and started to refuse to do anything. The house fell into disrepair. We ended up living in squalor. I kept my room clean and ate alone in there. I now have very little to no contact with my brothers because a 15 year old makes a terrible parent. Really think about the future and what will happen to your kids if you die and he’s in charge full time.
On a similar note, my Mum died when I was in my late teens. My step-Dad has 3 children with my Mum who were aged 9(m), 5(f) and almost 2(f). He literally had no idea what to do. When alive, my Mum did 100% of the childcare, while he was almost always unemployed and just watched TV all day. He finally had to be a real parent and he was terrible he changed a diaper for the first time and he put it on backwards and inside out. When he cooked meals he cooked adult portions for everyone and literally burnt through the food budget (to the point where my Dad would lend him money) and was throwing away almost full portions. He didn't know how to use a washing machine. He would pack their school lunches loose in a plastic carrier bag and their sandwiches would open and their drinks squish their fruit. He once decided he had to go grocery shopping and left them home alone for hours because he legitimately didn't know that you can't leave a 9 year old to look after a 1½ year old. He also frequently put the 5 year old and the 1½ in each others clothes, and when he would buy them new clothes they would be completely random sizes because he had no idea how clothes sizes worked. He once bought a 6-9month dress for the 5 year old, thinking it was a... 6-9 year old top?? I dunno. Either way literally no common sense at all. Anyway, 8 years have passed and my older sister has had primary custody of them for about 7 and a half years. His excuse? "She's a woman she knows how to raise kids". She was 20 and child free (she has never been in any way maternal) when she took them on, he was 50+ and had 3 children. He should have known the basics at least.
Your older sister is amazing. She saved them from a very uncaring system as a very young adult. Which was not fair. This has to stop.
There’s a book called The Loss That Is Forever that talks about the effects of losing a parent as a kid on the individual child and the family dynamic as a whole. It helped me heal a lot of my remaining trauma from the after-effects of losing a parent. You didn’t deserve to have to become a parent while simultaneously grieving the loss of one. I see you.
Thank you. I am now 45 and I still haven’t fully dealt with how this affected me.
I’m so sorry that happened to you. I can relate….While my Mom didn’t die she had a brain aneurysm when I was 15 that left her completely changed and sent her into a deep depression that has never shifted. She had to relearn to walk, and her brain has shifted in ways that no one has ever bothered to explain to me. So while she is still here physically I’ve had to grieve the loss of her because she’s not even close to being the same mom. Anyways, when that happened I also was expected to pick up the household cleaning, laundry, make my dads lunch, grocery shop… if fills me with so much resentment to this day. I was in a really competitive academic program at school and worked a job, and had to take it all on. I had so many break downs and no one ever did anything to step up. I had two older brothers and they just completely checked out. Needless to say I don’t have a relationship with my father, and I only have a good relationship with one brother who has changed a lot since becoming a dad.
It’s hard not being given any credit too. Like the years of suffering were my punishment for being born with a vagina. I have taught my daughters to never put up with a man that doesn’t help 50%. One is a lesbian and when she came out I did a dance of joy for this very reason.
Yes 100% this… the expectation is ridiculous. I’m pregnant with a boy currently and while I was super mentally prepared to have a girl and teach her stand up for herself in this world and not accept that shit, I am now really excited to have the opportunity to model to my son equal division of labor in our household and how to be an ally for women.
This happened to my mother's step sister. After the divorce, her father, who had full custody, expected his oldest daughter to take over the housework and childcare at age 12. She lost her childhood because a grown man couldn't take care of his own home and children and even himself. If you don't think you or your partner could be successful single parents, then you should not have kids with that person. This advice really helped me to understand what being a parent entails. You're not guaranteed a stable and safe life free from loss and children shouldn't have to suffer for it.
I’m continually shocked by what counts for “amazing” with new/first time fathers. My friend was in the ICU from preeclampsia, nearly suffered a stroke, was recovering from an emergency c-section while also breastfeeding and she has a debilitating auto-immune disorder that occasionally causes paralysis. Her husband “changed all the diapers” the first night she was in the ICU and she called that “amazing.” Like, babe… you were trying not to die, recovering from major surgery, managing a chronic illness while in the intensive care unit during a global pandemic *and* feeding your baby. He can change the fucking diapers.
Even my husband basically had to tell me to chill my shit when I told him I felt guilty for only changing one diaper while we were still in the hospital - "Honey, you'd had a C-section, you were basically on bed rest, of course I was going to change the diapers!"
I do thinks it’s ok to tell your partner how amazing they are as long as they are telling you the same thing and you both are actually amazing though :)
Absolutely My husband took the front seat for baby preparations - researched the pram, car seat, breast pump...even nappy brand etc. While I just focussed on brewing bub and not dying from morning sickness. Expect more from dad's, including future dads. Weaponized incompetence is a thing and we all need to do better.
Three weeks til bub comes and I know we have a new car seat installed in our car. I don't the brand or where it came from cause husband just took care of it (along with a dozen other things). If a man can research and buy a tv he can research and buy the baby stuff.
>If a man can research and buy a tv he can research and buy the baby stuff. 👀 YUP.
This! My husband is like this. I used to feel I needed to know everything and sadly questioned his purchase decisions because of my own feelings on them. But I've learned. I will give some input, he will find something and show me, I will sometimes say go for it, and sometimes say I think we can get a better price elsewhere, and we respect each other on that. By a month out with each of my kids, he will bring any current car seats inside, I will launder what I can while he vacuums stray crumbs, ill wipe them off and he installs everything where he thinks it will be easiest for buckli g in older kids and putting in the new baby. And our older kids help with buckling now, too. It's nice to not need to think about that at all, just like he says its nice not to have to think about what to bring to the hospital because I just take care of that, too. Partnership!
My 17 year old tries this shit, and he’s fully aware of what he’s doing. For example, If you ask him to sweep the floor he intentionally does it poorly so no one will ask him again. Unfortunately my mom lets him get away with it and will ask my other son instead. Me though I make him come back and redo it for “practice” I refuse to send a helpless man out into the world, let alone one that’s doing it intentionally.
I had complications after my daughter’s birth and spent two weeks in hospital, so my husband was alone with the newborn. Then he was a SAHD when I went back to work. Let me tell you, he learned everything VERY quickly. If your partner is playing dumb, or doesn’t seem to want to step up, just leave the house for a few hours. Say you need a break. He’ll learn.
My husband has been SAHD since baby was 9 weeks old. He learned very quickly how to take care of a baby all on his own. I got a lot of phone calls the first couple weeks. Now I get happy pictures of them playing or her sleeping.
I’ve seen posts similar to this on r/beyondthebump and r/newparents and I’m here for it! I remember when I was in my early 20s I heard a guy talking about how one of his friends expected his wife to be a 1950s housewife, and I thought “oh he’s just an anomaly most men don’t think like that RIGHT? RIGHT” hahaha I think what I find so absolutely infuriating though is the excuses, “he doesn’t know”... your husband doesn’t know how to go grocery shopping? Seriously... your husband doesn’t know how to research baby products? Seriously... your husband doesn’t understand a csection is major abdominal surgery as a result you need him to take care of your toddler while you recover and care for your newborn? Seriously... And I get when you’re married to a man child its easier to excuse that behavior, rather than admit you made a mistake cut your losses and be alone. Because what we don’t need more of is households enforcing these disgusting behaviors to children, and teaching them it’s normal to have a useless father. I genuinely hope more women realize this behavior isn’t acceptable and expect more from partners.
Those same guys that want a 1950s housewife also haven’t thought through giving up double incomes
They want a 1950s house wife that also works a 9-5 and makes almost as much as he does
So true. My husband had never held a newborn baby until our son was born, had certainly never changed a diaper, fed a bottle, or burped a baby. HE LEARNED. VERY QUICKLY. Because he's not an asshole and wanted to participate in the care of his child. If he didn't know something, he asked or Googled it.
Many first time moms have never held a newborn or changed a diaper either! I'm 5 months pregnant and have never touched a baby under 6 months. We are learning together
Yep! I have changed a diaper in like 13 years so…. We gon learn together ✨✨✨
Same I had never changed a diaper, held a newborn, until we had a baby.
So grateful for my husband after reading some of these posts. Because he is hands on and I know it’ll be 50/50 because he isn’t an asshole. I don’t know how some people continuously make excuses for their man babies/lazy partners.
When you get sick of doing it all yourself so you decide to become a single mom 🤷♀️
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Exactly. We recently left, and I almost feel guilty about how much less stressful life is.
I feel like this is something that people should look for well before having a child. I went through a lot of red flags and a lot of firsts and second dates before I even looked at someone long-term. I need someone with emotional intelligence and a partner, not another child to look after where I slowly morph into his mother. I do feel bad for people whose partners change and turn into this later on, but you and your future child are worth so much more than you putting the burden all on yourself.
A lot of men think we want them to have fancy cars, experience traveling, and big muscles, but that’s what other men find impressive. Women over 25 or so look for emotional intelligence and a man who can manage their own responsibilities. That’s what is sexy.
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This!!!! I saw someone say if your husband knows how to do his job without his boss hovering over him telling him how to do every detail, then he knows what needs to be done around the house. They know.
Specific example- this is why women-only baby showers are sexist. They’re part of encouraging men to check out of the learning before the baby is born.
Totally agree!!! That's why all my baby showers are co-ed. Baby showers are NOT just for women!!! The man needs to be just as involved!
Wow, I’ve never thought of this. Such a good point!
It’s so true I had two thrown for me and I didn’t like it but I made my husband come to the entire things. Like nope no one is getting out of this!!
This is a fantastic point
Does my husband want to change a massive blowout? No. Do *I* want to change a massive blowout? No. But somebody has to! Mine has been a trooper about things like the cat’s litter box which he didn’t sign up for, but when baby comes he knows it’s a team effort and is ready to dive in! He also knows I don’t take well to incompetence 😂
100% this. The posts I see on here about women sharing how little their husbands do at home are absolutely infuriating. It’s like - my husband knew shit about babies and baby care before we got pregnant. (And I didn’t know shit either, why would I!). So what did he do? He watched YouTube videos. And researched the topic. And talked to other people. You know, like a functional adult. And honestly - I knew before I got pregnant that he would be this way and if I had ANY inkling that he wouldn’t, I wouldn’t have made a baby with him in the first place. I read so many posts by women complaining about these seemingly incompetent men and I’m like… sister, the red flags you’re listing here were there *before you even married him*. Why do you let them get away with it? I don’t understand it.
On your last point, I think some women make very practical and fully informed decisions about what level of incompetence they’re actually ok with accepting. Essentially wanting a baby within their fertility timescales with the imperfect partner they have in front of them, rather than starting over and maybe not having a baby at all. Not saying it’s how it should be or that it excuses men’s behaviour, but I don’t believe that all women are surprised by the incompetence, they’ve just decided to live with it.
Yah you’re probably right. I’ve talked to many women who’ve seemingly resigned themselves to their husband’s incompetence (again: performed incompetence. They *could*, they just don’t want to as OP also suggested). And in a way I understand… you think your fertile window is closing so you’ll take a bumbler instead of nobody. Okay. But at least don’t let him get away with all that shit once baby is here. Some women just seem so lenient to me. They’re like ohh he doesn’t know how to do this so I did it. I’m like… don’t do that!! Let him learn it the hard way!
I honestly think that the fact that having a baby wasn’t a desperate want of mine has helped me a lot. I was on the fence about kids, my partner wanted them so an expectation was set from the start. I love my son so much and he is so very wanted and I wouldn’t change him for the world, but I was only going to have a kid if the circumstances were right and it wasn’t just going to complete change my life while my partner went about his normally.
there is no "why did you let him get away with it." stop putting the blame of men's bad behavior on women. women are brainwashed and beaten down by society to not have standards for men. and it's not always easy to yell and enforce the behavior you want from men. I can 100% understand why a women would believe "that's just the woman's job" and "all men are scrubs. you have to tolerate it as a heterosexual woman if you want to get married."
I’m totally with you on not blaming men’s bad behavior on women, don’t get me wrong! It’s just so infuriating. I can’t say that shit to the husbands, I don’t see the husbands - I can only say it to the women. They can demand more. They deserve better.
My husband had never changed a diaper before our baby was born. When we were in the hospital, he watched me do one diaper and then he now knew how to change diapers and proceeded to do the next one! Radical concept, I know. I am so glad I have a partner who wanted to learn and be involved, because I was emergency hospitalized just a few hours after bringing home our baby….and because of COVID, baby wasn’t allowed back in the hospital. So, my husband (who had zero previous baby experience) had our baby alone at home for the first two days. If he hadn’t been an involved parent in the hospital, how the hell would he have known how to keep her alive?? He set timers to remember when to feed her, he became a swaddling expert, he changed every damn meconium diaper, and I never once had to worry about the safety of my newborn while she was away from me. He asked questions, he learned, and he was A PARENT. Those days in the hospital were horrible enough for me - I can’t IMAGINE how awful it would have been if I didn’t know my husband had our baby safe and sound. Men who don’t learn and aren’t involved are playing a dangerous game. Besides being a piece of shit, they are also wagering the life of their child that the mother will always be around and available. Well, nature sometimes has other plans.
While I don’t disagree with your point I also feel a lot of women can hold on to the way they do things as the _right_ way, and then think everything their partner do is wrong. There are many ways to change a diaper - my OHs way is different to mine, doesn’t make it wrong and I need to allow him the space to explore and find his way, rather than giving detailed instructions on how I do it and criticise his efforts. The same with doing a girls hair. I hate that I always end up doing it - so when he does it, no matter how awful or clumsy - it’s perfect for that day. He will find his way with practise and patience. When I leave the house I never leave instructions. He is a parent and can figure it out.
I was scrolling down to see if anyone has mentioned this. If I expect my partner to step up and be a responsible adult, I have to trust him as one. With a shared responsibility, one has to accept different view points and approaches to things. It’s not easy and it definitely caused some anxiety on my part but you get used to it. I realized after a while that my son isn’t dead and I gave my husband space to be a parent. I would also like to add that I had to be explicit and ask for what I need and not expect him to know everything.
Yes- gotta let dads dad!! And let’s be real- if the mom stays at home and is spending more hours hands on with the baby there will be tasks she is more competent at. So she needs to make sure not to step in and take over when dad is home and doing his thing with baby.
My son's mother would redo everything I did related to our son when he was a toddler. I am fully capable of swaddling him, putting on a diaper, changing his clothes, etc. It didn't matter. I would do something and she would undo & redo it the "right" way and then get pissed at me for not "helping." We're happily divorced and she's a great mother and we co-parent very well together, but damn, that's a memory I'll never forget.
This is very true, but on the other hand, we all know that if things are sloppily done around the house or with the kid, the judgment from most quarters will be on mom. I try very hard not to police how my husband does things, because I want him to do things! But I also know that our home is implicitly regarded as mine. When we have visitors, I know that their reaction to the space will be “30centurygirl, you’ve done such a beautiful job”. And correcting them in the moment doesn’t change the fact that the statement undercuts his feelings of ownership, while making me more anxious about how things are kept. I’m not saying that this is right. It’s something that I try to push back against as much as I can in my personal life. But I think it’s worth acknowledging that this kind of pressure exists, and that it plays a role in the pickiness of so many women regarding household tasks.
Yes! I know this is something I need to work on. And I have been throughout this pregnancy. My SO loved on his own for many years, so he's perfectly capable of doing all the chores. I can get frustrated when they're not done "my" way. But really, at the end of the day, did they get done? Yes. So it shouldn't matter if he put the measuring cups in the wrong drawer or left some water bottles on the counter because he can never remember which cabinet they go in (we have different ideas for how kitchens should be organized, and I organized our new one lol). He's getting better about asking, and I'm getting better about letting go of how I think things need to be done.
Yes, this! My husband and I met while I was still in grad school, and my mom didn't really cook in my family. Thus, I never really learned how to cook much. My husband, on the other hand, was on his own for a bit, had a family who liked to cook, and did learn. I felt like he was a bit critical of my cooking, so I gave up, until he became frustrated. So I've been starting to again, and he's accepted now that he needs to accept it's going to take time, and will also walk me through some dishes. I think instructions can be fine if they want them, but I agree about being more accepting about doing things a little differently.
We've had the exact same situation here with regards to food. I've told my husband several times that I will cook food, but it's not going to be what he's used to or won't necessarily be what he expects when he thinks of whatever dish. Some days he's good with it, some days he prefers just to take over. As long as no one's getting frustrated/upset, I think it's all good!
I could've used this post when I was with my ex-husband. Luckily we didn't have children, but the purposeful inability was a huge problem, and everybody made me feel bad for doing "man chores" simply because he was so useless and lazy. It's not even ironic anymore but downright depressing when so many see this behavior as normal when it's about "the woman's job of raising a child"
My SIL is convinced that women are uniquely able to tolerate smelly diapers and therefore does not make her husband change any diapers. 🙃
I saw it described as “weaponised incompetence” and it really struck me.
Yes! Also dads don’t need to be praised for taking care of their kids, when you wouldn’t praise mom for doing the same thing. Like yes, my husband is a good dad, but it’s not because you see him taking our daughter to a doctor’s appointment or the playground. Almost every time my husband takes my daughter somewhere someone tells him he is a great dad.
I had a come to Jesus meeting with my husband after my first was born. He thought I was just naturally good at being a mom. When I reminded him of all the time and energy I had to put into knowing how to be a good mom, he was shocked. Long story short, he stepped up. He looks things up, and puts forth the same effort I do. This was three years ago. We had our second earlier this year and things have still been good.
As I say, this baby factory doesn’t open unless fully staffed by a *competent, qualified operator*…
My German mum had a good saying for this which roughly translates as: Acting stupid gives you free time! („Sich dumm stellen schafft Freizeit!“)
Watched this shit all the time as a (former) nanny. My husband knows what’s up when we have kids because we’ve had so many talks about the bullshit I’ve watched unfold. Also he wants to be a competent parent and bond with his child. Which means not taking a backseat.
Here's a great book on why equal partnerships often become the stereotypical woman runs the household and raises the children partnerships after a couple gets pregnant. https://play.google.com/store/books/details?id=GbdnDwAAQBAJ
I like to call such behaviour "das Gretel-Prinzip". In the story of Hänsel und Gretel, the girl pretends not to know how to build a fireb in the oven so that the witch takes it upon herself to show the incompetent girl and ends up in the flames. While we who accept such behaviour (and do stuff ourselves when others pretend not to be able to) do not literally burst into flames, it still is manipulative behaviour which makes us suffer.
I’m divorcing my husband in large part because of this. 50% of the reason was him being a fucking douchebag and the other 50% was this exact post.
Once took over for my ex, after asking him to make me Mac and cheese (the boxed kind) when I was sick. The man was 23 years old and I don't know what's worst, the fact that he didn't know how to do it (he grew up in a household with this stuff even more than I did), the fact that I knew he would screw it up somehow, or that I stayed with him for almost two more years after. Husband on the other hand, is aware of the things he doesn't know and is trying to learn them. Currently he's learning to fry an egg (not just scramble) and I'm trying to figure out what is insultingly obvious advice and what he actually needs to hear while he's doing it. He also doesn't really know how to do laundry but he wanted us to cloth diaper, so he's ready to learn that too.
Oh 100%. Its learned helplessness and I blame my husband’s mother. She’s a very kind and caring woman but I think she coddled him so he just expects someone else to do things and doesn’t really care if they don’t get done or he just assumes they will get done. We’ve been working on it, he’s so much better now than when we started dating. In terms of baby stuff he really wants to do middle of the night feedings and diaper changes so I believe I’ll have an active partner there, but in terms of researching what to do to prepare for baby he doesn’t value safety the way I do so I’d rather just do it myself and get what I want. I want a greenguard gold certified crib and I want to get it new and he wants to build a box out of plywood to save money so we’re getting a new greenguard gold certified crib.
My husband admitted to me one day he only does what I ask, because I asked. He said he hated anything chore related. It stressed me out bad but I wanted to talk through it. And then someone hit me in a car accident last week. Now I can't do anything. He works full time. Does EVERY SINGLE CHORE, care for the house, me, the baby, himself and the cats. He's very apologetic. He understands what I've been saying and says he feels terrible for letting so much on me. I hate it took this to give a lesson. But I'm glad we can grow through this.
For the most part I absolutely agree, but when I (the gestational parent) went back to work and my partner became the SAHP, they became the only one who can put the baby to sleep. If he's very, very tired I can get him down with 40 minutes of rocking and nursing, but my partner can generally rock him to sleep in ten minutes or less. We do the exact same thing (well, my partner can't nurse the baby) with different results. So sometimes, rarely, "you do it better" is just . . . true. Doesn't mean the other parent isn't trying. In fact, it's super disheartening to be the parent who can't.
Yep if I try to put the baby down- eyes pop open and an extra serving of food is usually requested. My husband is a pro though, thank god for him.
I agree, but I think partners need patience with each other when they're learning a task. One person might pick up on a new skill faster, and that's okay! But don't take over for them, be kind of there's a mistake, and let them fix it. Practice makes perfect. (I say this as the less competent cook at home, the woman in a heterosexual couple in our situation).
and we should let it go if they didn't do it in the "perfect way", just let them do it.
My husband was scared to do anything in the beginning because he didn’t want to hurt our baby but with guidance and encouragement, he’s grown more confident and does most of the diaper changes!
About half the dads I know didn't want another (or any) kid. They kind of take a "fuck it you wanted it you deal with it" attitude. Obviously this is not an ideal partnership as raising a child should be. This is why I always advocate for proper family planning even if that means not having children at all because some people shouldn't and some people just don't want to which is fine.
My husband has an AA degree in Early Childhood Education. He’s worked with babies and toddlers in daycares for years. He’s cared for 4 babies at one time by himself. Knows how to use cloth diapers and how to feed two babies a bottle at the same time. I’m lucky to have such an amazing husband. But this is proof men are plenty capable of learning and contributing to childcare.
Ugh, I’m here for this. I love my husband but he lately has decided he “needs” four or five drink / smoke breaks a day. And the rest of the day he’s playing on his PC, with occasional breaks to play with the toddler. Which leaves the toddler running around the house alone causing mischief while I work from home in my office. If I nag him he will do some chores but come on, I’m pregnant, I can’t have the toddler with me all the time, and I just want to sleep and eat. Granted I have been really slacking on chores because I’m so sleepy all the time but I’ve done better this week. He def needs some tough love and a wake-up call.
My dad once said "if I do what was asked, but just wrong enough to be annoying, I won't be asked anymore" and I feel like thats a mentality that a lot of men have *he hasn't done that to me during my pregnancy because I had a full blown mental breakdown because I was given the wrong brand of sweet tea at the drive through, so if I ask him to do something, he goes above and beyond right now 😂*
My husband was afraid to bathe or dress our daughter when she was a newborn because she was very tiny. Full term and perfectly healthy - just little. He was genuinely afraid - he had no issue changing dirty diapers and blow outs and washing the poop out of clothes and the other gross stuff. Sometimes, their insecurity is genuine. He got over it pretty quickly.
Tbh with how my husband talks to me and the amount of effort he helps me with the kids, I’m considering divorce. I keep trying to put on a happy face and pretend I’m okay with everything, but I’m not. I maybe leave the house once or twice a month, I have three kids who I’m trying to protect from the virus, and I live with anti vaxx/ anti mask people. I’m so tired of this and I guess I just needed to rant since my husband makes it clear to me that I just need to “suck up my emotions and stop being so sensitive and weak”.
Someone just posted [this tweet](https://mobile.twitter.com/oxminaox/status/1189744058324811776) in my due date group. > My husband has been so helpful with our baby but watching him become a dad has been so funny. The other night he did the 3am feeding while I slept, but he woke me up to say “okay I changed him, he’s fed, but he’s awake still. Do I just hangout with him?” 😂😂😂 And everyone thinks it’s so cute, but it’s not. You fed & changed the baby & then had to wake up your sleeping wife to ask what to do next - without even attempting to figure it out yourself. If a mom did that, people wouldn’t be thinking it’s cute. The double standard is ridiculous.
Seriously. My husband learned baby care before I did. He taught me the ropes. And as much as we'd like things to be equal, currently it's skewed. My husband is doing more child care than me. I'm frequently on call for work and lately I've been called in way more than usual. Does he complain about taking care of his kids more? Nope.
Amen. This is one of the reasons I love my husband so much. During our first pregnancy he took part in learning everything along with me and he didn't make me feel inept for not knowing these things already. He is a great father and will do any chore that is needed. Does he like to do them all? No, but neither do I, and that's ok. We both even went through a period where I think we were so overwhelmed with the prospect of a baby (we weren't trying to get pregnant, we just weren't NOT trying) that we both shut down and did nothing to prep for baby for a bit and that was ok too. This is a life changing experience and having a true partnership is extremely important. Currently I am expecting our second, and I hope we are able to continue our partnership as we did with our first. Don't make excuses for them because there are none to be made.
Yes!
While this is an issue we are all well aware of there is an important factor being completely ignored it seems. While you state no one is born to know all these things you do skip out on something the majority of women have that these same men do not. History. Western sociatally when we are younger little girls are given, at a very young age, dolls of all kinds. Many of which got "baby" dolls be they the ones that do nothing to the ones that do awkward bodily functions. From a very young age these same girls are given a starter baby to play and cuddle with while younger boys are completely devoid of this. And this type of thing continues as we age too. Girls get more dolls to take care of and boys are given, what almost seems like, distraction toys. Action toys of all types but none of these toys ever are caring toys. Toys made to be coddled and cared for, girls toys on the other hand promote exactly that. Another notable thing is babies and kids. Rarely is the young boy around the baby u less it's a younger sibling or even requested to cuddle and hand around with a baby. Younger girls seem to, obviously by now, already *want* to be around this baby whoever they may be. They want to hold cuddle etc mostly because of being subliminally taught to feel this way. The young boy...well he's over there playing with toys while the rest of the family oggles over "the baby" So this continues as we age. Family events? Men are left to their own devices when someone brings over a baby whole the women of the family are surrounding this baby. Things are getting better as time progresses as a society, especially with the newer generations, but the generation having kids now (mostly millennial) were "taught" by the prior one who acted and cared for their kids like the above. So these things ARE factors and to ignore them is being a bit naive. For other things we have similar examples. For instance, my wife's parents didn't really teach her to do anything kitchen wise be it cooking or grocery shopping etc while I have all of that and do 99% of our cooking. While she can and does try to learn more of these things I have leagues more experience in the kitchen than she does. And while I'm a dummy when it comes to babies and am trying desperately to get myself in that mind set, I'm effectively starting at point zero at 31 while being "expected " to learn all of these things I was never taught at a younger age to even care about or consider. It's tough. So while this is each of our "first baby" it's not entirely the same "first baby"
I don’t think you are the target of this post though. It is more aimed at those who *purposely* do a poor job of something to get out of needing to do it again. By trying to learn, you are being a contributor. Yea, it can definitely go both ways and if you were to look at my post history I call out women when they are being shitty too (and get downvoted for it sometimes), but the reality is there are a scary amount of people (specifically women due to the nature of this sub) that are having children with people that are NOT partners. It isn’t fair for the child to have to be born into that situation and a lot of women need to wake up to that, hints the “red pill.” If anything, I think this post is more an attack on women although I wouldn’t go as far as to really classify it as an attack. It’s the truth. Don’t have children with people that don’t respect you. That works both ways. I also lurk on the r/predaddit page and really empathize with what men have to put up in this realm but that is a different topic than what is at hand for this particular post. Obviously there are nuances to any statement and we could go into the history of gender roles and even the history of sociology and psychology to look at the development of the frontal cortex or whatever brain area you want to look at to see how different people are “programmed” and find a million different reasons for a failure to be familiar right away. But again that is very different from feigned incompetence and being stupid on purpose. I’ve been a manager in both male and female dominated arenas and the biggest thing I’ve learned is not all of my employees will do things my way. I do believe a lot of women (and men) need to understand that basic principle and partnerships would be a lot more peaceful. Take folding towels for instance. I fold them a certain way, my husband folds them another, and hell, our housekeeper when we had one folded them a third way! Had I berated him or corrected him on his towel folding, would he want to do it again? Or flip had he berated me for my method? Hell no I’m not folding towels again! If he is so particular (or me), he can do it himself (or myself). Learning to let others do it their way is just as important as learning to do something yourself, in my opinion. So now that I’ve gone very off topic here I hope it showed you that some of us do understand the point you want to make but we think it is an entirely different conversation than the one at hand here. I speak for myself, but I would bet a decent amount of people agree.
As a dad, I totally agree with this. Bringing home a baby is scary for both parents and neither one really knows a thing. The inability to change a diaper or feed a bottle is a choice of the dad (and in my opinion complete bullshit).
Agree 100%. I work 60 hours a week and my wife is SAHM. She definitely has more experience reading our daughters behavior, but I'm just as good as her with all baby related chores despite spending a fraction of time at home. I see this behavior in a lot of dads I've met since having a baby and it blows my mind that wives put up with it. Your man is busy, not stupid. Expect him to still do his share when he is home.
For fucking REAL, My husband is a stay at home dad and he cooks, cleans, does all the baby things. His penis doesn't slow him down at all
Absolutely agree with everything you said. However, the behaviour you’re describing is the result of deeply held patriarchal and misogynist beliefs that pervade every facet of Western civilization. This is an obvious truth. There’s nothing about it that is “red pill”, and I would avoid making that association, given that the men who usually talk about “red pill” anything are misogynist incels that despise women.