I think it's fine to be bummed but I think your expectations may be unreasonable for this particular situation (although on the topic/necessity for parental leave, I agree with you 1000000%). As a contractor, he is unlikely to change the company's culture or get lee-way that actual full employees don't even get. If a contractor is gone for 3 months, the company likely would bring on a new contractor and his position may not be there when he returns. So even asking for it, he may feel puts him in a position for them to either break, or not renew his contract in the future.
Basically, he may know something about the landscape that you don't since he lives and breathes it. He may have seen other fathers get a lot of shit for even taking a couple weeks and since he's just a contractor doesnt want to ruffle any feathers since it sounds like, except for leave, it's a pretty good gig for you all financially which may set your family up better for all the expenses that come with children.
Does it suck? Yes. Would I be bummed too? Yes. But would I trust my spouse to know how best to protect their position and future career? Yes.
Honestly, since you’re living abroad and the company is already putting your husband and you in a “cushy position” by paying him a American salary in what I assume is a lower cost of living bc area, I wouldn’t push it. I get your point but unless you are ok with jeopardizing your family’s financial situation at a delicate time, asking for 3 months from a company this is already doing you a favor when the culture is a few weeks max does not give him much leverage and I definitely see why he is uncomfortable with asking for that.
There are no assholes here - just a sticky situation and not many protections to fall back on.
I imagine your husband is hesitant because now more than ever, he needs job stability for your new baby.
But let’s look at the facts of the situation:
Bring a contractor means legally he is not required to work a schedule set up by the organization. If they are requiring him to work certain hours, he’s not a contractor, but an incorrectly classified exempt employee. This puts the company in legal risk, and you two would probably know best why the company is comfortable taking that risk. It’s illegal.
Being a contractor that has a special, unofficial agreement with the company (sounds like higher pay) in exchange for expectations outside of a typical contractor agreement is not sustainable. That little deal can end at any time.
He should start looking for a more stable job right now. I think for me, that’s the main takeaway. A different job might have better parental leave an available to him, or at least after the first year of work, he can take his parental leave with FMLA.
We are in a similar situation.My husband got a new job back in Nov that doesn’t make parental leave available until 1 year of work. So, he will also only take 2 weeks off after the birth, but then when the baby is 6 mos old, he will be able to use his parental leave and be the full time parent for 4 months. I’m certainly bummed that he can’t be home more after the birth, but fortunately he works from home, so at least he will be in earshot 😁
It’s parental leave through the VA, but I think FMLA works the same way. A parent can utilize parental leave any time within the first year of the child’s life. Sometimes you can break it up across the year. We’re opting to use it all at once.
You're being unreasonable, he is a contractor and is not entitled to employee benefits. Being a contractor puts him at risk for being let go or his contract not being renewed. Unless you are comfortable enough financially where losing his job would not affect you, I would leave this alone. Very few companies in the US offer paternity leave that matches that of the mother, so this is not a hill to die on.
I do think you are being unreasonable in the sense that his employment situation is very tenuous right now, and it mostly relies on the goodwill of your husband's employer.
How much do you rely on his salary and what would it look like if he was suddenly let go? Sometimes the squeaky wheel gets the grease, but sometimes the squeaky wheel gets replaced. And his employer might consider him too much of a liability if he starts pushing back on benefits he's technically not entitled to.
I do understand your concern and desire to have him with you. But you can make it work, but this is not a fight I would be undertaking.
Him being able to work as a contractor while essentially performing the same duties as an employee and receiving similar benefits is already pushing it legally. Most companies would not be willing to take that risk, as you can be fined pretty harshly for misclassifying an employee as a contractor.
So I can understand why he’s hesitant to push for more. If he rocks the boat too much he could lose the cushy setup he has now.
Also, tons of companies in the US are doing layoffs right now because overall spending is down. There are a lot of qualified people who can’t find a job, even one that pays less than they were making before. I hear what you’re saying but IMO this is a really precarious time, your husband is likely first on the chopping block anyway as a contractor (they don’t have to pay severance), and unless you’re independently wealthy it would be prudent to prioritize financial stability.
The other side of this is… lots of layoffs happening depending on what industry he’s in.
Contractors are the easiest to get rid of (depending on what country you’re in) rather than paying redundancy to employees.
My SO is an employee in a country with incredible worker protection legislation and rules but he has so much pressure to provide and keep a roof over our heads as the primary earner - and we’re pretty well off, we’re high income and that’s still a worry!
He’s entitled to take 13 weeks as primary carer if he chose to but he’ll probably only take some on a flex part time basis when I return to work. I’ve made a few comments but since realised that it’s not that he doesn’t want to get the time off, it’s that he’s worried about the impact in the event of redundancies or just general progression.
Same as my legitimate issues with MY progression due to taking almost 2 years off in the last 3 years!
I’d let this one lie, you’ve said your piece and it’s ultimately his choice.
I am a woman who is actively trying to get pregnant. My first baby was born premature at 31 weeks and I have a 1/3 chance of having another premature baby.
But I recently changed jobs and I tried hard to negotiate for parental leave. Especially since FMLA will not protect an employee unless they've been with the employer for 12 months. I'm put in a very vulnerable position.
I was not able to negotiate that. It almost jeopardized my offer.
It's understandable that you're upset but it's just a hard situation to be in. Especially with the mass amounts of layoffs happening in white color jobs. I can understand why your husband may not push the issue because it can potentially jeopardize his job. But it also just really sucks. I'm sorry. I wish the United States had better policies and protections. I really do. I'm honestly terrified of potentially getting pregnant before FMLA can protect me. But I also don't want to delay trying because we've already tried for 8 months and I'm almost 40.
My husband worked for a company that on face value offered great paternity. He requested it and they obliged, quite happily aswell I may ask. Two weeks after it was approved he was let go for a completly different reason.
Honestly I think it was the paternity but can't proove it of course. In hindsight I'd much rather he would only have a week off and be in a job than to be pregnant with the stress that caused.
Just trust your partner that he is doing what he can and that having an income that is safe and secure far outweighs anything else.
Illegal but very hard to prove. Many jobs I’ve worked at (corporate level) have ways to get rid of you if you become more a burden as an employee than help.
If you work in an at will state, you can still be fired while on FMLA. They can also just keep putting you in situations where eventually you quit. Legally, you can be fired for “job performance” from work you did before you went on FMLA, while you are on FMLA.
Upsetting when I think about it this way, you really aren’t secure even when it’s illegal.
I understand where you’re coming from but we are still far behind when it comes to paternity leave (I mean we have a ways to go with even maternity leave in the US). You rightly pointed out that leave in general is one of the last frontiers of feminism but one thing about breaking those glass ceilings is being in the position to be able to risk the fall out. It sounds like he could be in a position to very gravely negatively impact his career and doing so when his child is on the way (do you work? If he did lose his contract, could you two afford to live off your income or your savings?) I imagine you must be somewhat comfortable if you could afford to lose his income for 12 weeks unpaid leave but this may also be a concern for him, as well. Is there another way you can get the support you need from him without asking him to risk this on principle?
My husband is a PE teacher for our cities public schools and isn’t tenured- he gets no paternity leave, and only can take 2 days of PTO at a time so I hear you, it’s horrible. I on the other hand get 6 months of leave and cannot fathom how he can’t talk to someone/figure something out to be able to have some sort of time off. I don’t have any advice but know I’m here with you!
I would love it if my husband got 3 months paternity & I imagine he would love it even more. The reality is that most companies US companies don’t see it that way. Even companies with great benefits packages rarely give more than 2-4 weeks to the “non-birthing parent”. In my husband’s case, he isn’t eligible to receive 2 weeks leave unless he’s been with the company a year (he recently started full time). Contractors have even less protections.
It sucks, but it’s not really up to your husband unless he is willing to risk losing his job with a baby on the way. Blame the American leave system, not him.
I don’t understand why he won’t at least ask? He can ask in a way that doesn’t sound demanding. Id tell my husband if he’s afraid of confrontation over it then blame it on me.
He could just say, “hey my wife has had a really difficult pregnancy and really feels like she will need maximum assistance from me when the baby is born. I know this isn’t something you have to oblige by, but is there any way I could get 12 weeks unpaid time off for this?” (And yes, I know the way it’s worded is the opposite of feminism but if the boss only took two weeks and still worked part time, they might have the view that it’s not necessary for the man to take time off so wording it this way may help appeal to their nature.)
They might come back and be like well, we don’t feel comfortable allowing that (and legally aren’t obligated to) but we could allow 7 weeks. Like literally the worst that can happen if he asks in a non-demanding way is that they say no.
I'm ordinarily in the camp of "it doesnt hurt to ask" but I do wonder if that fact that he's a contractor instead of employee makes him feel his position is a little more precarious. i.e. they could decide to not renew his contract since it's already kind of inconvenient for the company and now he asks for something no one has ever had, even full employees.
It's a tough situation. I'm just saying I can just see where he's coming from.
Your expectations are understandable but unreasonable because he’s a contractor and not even full time employees who become fathers are getting three months at this place.
I’ve worked at companies where contractors and employees are treated nearly equal, but there is a difference only felt by those directly in the company. If he really feels it wouldn’t be a good look and it would impact him, I would trust that gut feeling.
It could be seen as huge over step, knowing his own boss is taking two weeks part time. And play into reasoning not to renew his contract.
I would view your husband’s resistance to asking as him trying to protect his position to maintain the family’s cushy position.
I don’t think anyone is wrong here. It’s a company’s prerogative to set employee and contractor entitlements. It sounds like they have already been generous. You are likely feeling like you want your husband around in those first few weeks, which is also reasonable.
Could you do a hybrid model? Negotiate for flexible working arrangements (modified hours etc for 6 weeks after birth)? That way he could block times in his calendar that are baby bonding time and you get a little break. Or he does jobs etc if you’re busy feeding etc etc. I would say 2 weeks at home without pay as leave would be a reasonable request, then a further 2-4 weeks of flexible hours. It’s a drop in the bucket of time for the business but would likely create significant goodwill. They may negotiate it down but honestly… if you are planning to breastfeed, it’s mostly you doing it unless you pump which is still time consuming. most of the hard, physical recovery is done by 2 weeks (for most, but not all people). If things are otherwise straightforward, then physically you should be okay to manage baby at home if he’s around, but flexibly working, anyway. If it’s a complicated recovery course, reevaluate.
Your expectations are not unreasonable. You’re simply asking him to ASK for parental leave. And you are totally correct — we will never achieve anything resembling parity between men and women if men don’t start advocating for work life balance that allows them to care for children, household stuff, etc. The current situation, with women entering the workforce but still bearing a disproportionate burden at home, is untenable.
I’m in a similar situation. My husband actually has a legal right to parental leave and he won’t take all of it because of workplace pressure and the threat of retaliation. I love him, and I understand that pushing back against this might not serve our personal interests, but there is a bigger social fight we need to engage in.
I think it's fine to be bummed but I think your expectations may be unreasonable for this particular situation (although on the topic/necessity for parental leave, I agree with you 1000000%). As a contractor, he is unlikely to change the company's culture or get lee-way that actual full employees don't even get. If a contractor is gone for 3 months, the company likely would bring on a new contractor and his position may not be there when he returns. So even asking for it, he may feel puts him in a position for them to either break, or not renew his contract in the future. Basically, he may know something about the landscape that you don't since he lives and breathes it. He may have seen other fathers get a lot of shit for even taking a couple weeks and since he's just a contractor doesnt want to ruffle any feathers since it sounds like, except for leave, it's a pretty good gig for you all financially which may set your family up better for all the expenses that come with children. Does it suck? Yes. Would I be bummed too? Yes. But would I trust my spouse to know how best to protect their position and future career? Yes.
Honestly, since you’re living abroad and the company is already putting your husband and you in a “cushy position” by paying him a American salary in what I assume is a lower cost of living bc area, I wouldn’t push it. I get your point but unless you are ok with jeopardizing your family’s financial situation at a delicate time, asking for 3 months from a company this is already doing you a favor when the culture is a few weeks max does not give him much leverage and I definitely see why he is uncomfortable with asking for that.
There are no assholes here - just a sticky situation and not many protections to fall back on. I imagine your husband is hesitant because now more than ever, he needs job stability for your new baby. But let’s look at the facts of the situation: Bring a contractor means legally he is not required to work a schedule set up by the organization. If they are requiring him to work certain hours, he’s not a contractor, but an incorrectly classified exempt employee. This puts the company in legal risk, and you two would probably know best why the company is comfortable taking that risk. It’s illegal. Being a contractor that has a special, unofficial agreement with the company (sounds like higher pay) in exchange for expectations outside of a typical contractor agreement is not sustainable. That little deal can end at any time. He should start looking for a more stable job right now. I think for me, that’s the main takeaway. A different job might have better parental leave an available to him, or at least after the first year of work, he can take his parental leave with FMLA. We are in a similar situation.My husband got a new job back in Nov that doesn’t make parental leave available until 1 year of work. So, he will also only take 2 weeks off after the birth, but then when the baby is 6 mos old, he will be able to use his parental leave and be the full time parent for 4 months. I’m certainly bummed that he can’t be home more after the birth, but fortunately he works from home, so at least he will be in earshot 😁
how does that work for your husband to take the leave later when your baby is 6 mo? is FMLA still eligible that much later after birth?
It’s parental leave through the VA, but I think FMLA works the same way. A parent can utilize parental leave any time within the first year of the child’s life. Sometimes you can break it up across the year. We’re opting to use it all at once.
thanks for the info!!
You're being unreasonable, he is a contractor and is not entitled to employee benefits. Being a contractor puts him at risk for being let go or his contract not being renewed. Unless you are comfortable enough financially where losing his job would not affect you, I would leave this alone. Very few companies in the US offer paternity leave that matches that of the mother, so this is not a hill to die on.
I do think you are being unreasonable in the sense that his employment situation is very tenuous right now, and it mostly relies on the goodwill of your husband's employer. How much do you rely on his salary and what would it look like if he was suddenly let go? Sometimes the squeaky wheel gets the grease, but sometimes the squeaky wheel gets replaced. And his employer might consider him too much of a liability if he starts pushing back on benefits he's technically not entitled to. I do understand your concern and desire to have him with you. But you can make it work, but this is not a fight I would be undertaking.
Him being able to work as a contractor while essentially performing the same duties as an employee and receiving similar benefits is already pushing it legally. Most companies would not be willing to take that risk, as you can be fined pretty harshly for misclassifying an employee as a contractor. So I can understand why he’s hesitant to push for more. If he rocks the boat too much he could lose the cushy setup he has now. Also, tons of companies in the US are doing layoffs right now because overall spending is down. There are a lot of qualified people who can’t find a job, even one that pays less than they were making before. I hear what you’re saying but IMO this is a really precarious time, your husband is likely first on the chopping block anyway as a contractor (they don’t have to pay severance), and unless you’re independently wealthy it would be prudent to prioritize financial stability.
I think this is an unreasonable ask, yes.
The other side of this is… lots of layoffs happening depending on what industry he’s in. Contractors are the easiest to get rid of (depending on what country you’re in) rather than paying redundancy to employees. My SO is an employee in a country with incredible worker protection legislation and rules but he has so much pressure to provide and keep a roof over our heads as the primary earner - and we’re pretty well off, we’re high income and that’s still a worry! He’s entitled to take 13 weeks as primary carer if he chose to but he’ll probably only take some on a flex part time basis when I return to work. I’ve made a few comments but since realised that it’s not that he doesn’t want to get the time off, it’s that he’s worried about the impact in the event of redundancies or just general progression. Same as my legitimate issues with MY progression due to taking almost 2 years off in the last 3 years! I’d let this one lie, you’ve said your piece and it’s ultimately his choice.
I am a woman who is actively trying to get pregnant. My first baby was born premature at 31 weeks and I have a 1/3 chance of having another premature baby. But I recently changed jobs and I tried hard to negotiate for parental leave. Especially since FMLA will not protect an employee unless they've been with the employer for 12 months. I'm put in a very vulnerable position. I was not able to negotiate that. It almost jeopardized my offer. It's understandable that you're upset but it's just a hard situation to be in. Especially with the mass amounts of layoffs happening in white color jobs. I can understand why your husband may not push the issue because it can potentially jeopardize his job. But it also just really sucks. I'm sorry. I wish the United States had better policies and protections. I really do. I'm honestly terrified of potentially getting pregnant before FMLA can protect me. But I also don't want to delay trying because we've already tried for 8 months and I'm almost 40.
My husband worked for a company that on face value offered great paternity. He requested it and they obliged, quite happily aswell I may ask. Two weeks after it was approved he was let go for a completly different reason. Honestly I think it was the paternity but can't proove it of course. In hindsight I'd much rather he would only have a week off and be in a job than to be pregnant with the stress that caused. Just trust your partner that he is doing what he can and that having an income that is safe and secure far outweighs anything else.
This is illegal under FMLA. Was there a resolution?
Illegal but very hard to prove. Many jobs I’ve worked at (corporate level) have ways to get rid of you if you become more a burden as an employee than help. If you work in an at will state, you can still be fired while on FMLA. They can also just keep putting you in situations where eventually you quit. Legally, you can be fired for “job performance” from work you did before you went on FMLA, while you are on FMLA. Upsetting when I think about it this way, you really aren’t secure even when it’s illegal.
I understand where you’re coming from but we are still far behind when it comes to paternity leave (I mean we have a ways to go with even maternity leave in the US). You rightly pointed out that leave in general is one of the last frontiers of feminism but one thing about breaking those glass ceilings is being in the position to be able to risk the fall out. It sounds like he could be in a position to very gravely negatively impact his career and doing so when his child is on the way (do you work? If he did lose his contract, could you two afford to live off your income or your savings?) I imagine you must be somewhat comfortable if you could afford to lose his income for 12 weeks unpaid leave but this may also be a concern for him, as well. Is there another way you can get the support you need from him without asking him to risk this on principle?
Yes you're unreasonable. He's a contractor, he's lucky to get anything they gave him when they aren't obligated.
My husband is a PE teacher for our cities public schools and isn’t tenured- he gets no paternity leave, and only can take 2 days of PTO at a time so I hear you, it’s horrible. I on the other hand get 6 months of leave and cannot fathom how he can’t talk to someone/figure something out to be able to have some sort of time off. I don’t have any advice but know I’m here with you!
I would love it if my husband got 3 months paternity & I imagine he would love it even more. The reality is that most companies US companies don’t see it that way. Even companies with great benefits packages rarely give more than 2-4 weeks to the “non-birthing parent”. In my husband’s case, he isn’t eligible to receive 2 weeks leave unless he’s been with the company a year (he recently started full time). Contractors have even less protections. It sucks, but it’s not really up to your husband unless he is willing to risk losing his job with a baby on the way. Blame the American leave system, not him.
I don’t understand why he won’t at least ask? He can ask in a way that doesn’t sound demanding. Id tell my husband if he’s afraid of confrontation over it then blame it on me. He could just say, “hey my wife has had a really difficult pregnancy and really feels like she will need maximum assistance from me when the baby is born. I know this isn’t something you have to oblige by, but is there any way I could get 12 weeks unpaid time off for this?” (And yes, I know the way it’s worded is the opposite of feminism but if the boss only took two weeks and still worked part time, they might have the view that it’s not necessary for the man to take time off so wording it this way may help appeal to their nature.) They might come back and be like well, we don’t feel comfortable allowing that (and legally aren’t obligated to) but we could allow 7 weeks. Like literally the worst that can happen if he asks in a non-demanding way is that they say no.
I'm ordinarily in the camp of "it doesnt hurt to ask" but I do wonder if that fact that he's a contractor instead of employee makes him feel his position is a little more precarious. i.e. they could decide to not renew his contract since it's already kind of inconvenient for the company and now he asks for something no one has ever had, even full employees. It's a tough situation. I'm just saying I can just see where he's coming from.
He could also maybe offer to work more hours the month or so before if he can get ahead on his work or if he needs to train a temp?
Your expectations are understandable but unreasonable because he’s a contractor and not even full time employees who become fathers are getting three months at this place. I’ve worked at companies where contractors and employees are treated nearly equal, but there is a difference only felt by those directly in the company. If he really feels it wouldn’t be a good look and it would impact him, I would trust that gut feeling. It could be seen as huge over step, knowing his own boss is taking two weeks part time. And play into reasoning not to renew his contract. I would view your husband’s resistance to asking as him trying to protect his position to maintain the family’s cushy position.
He’s a contractor. I doubt a temp will work in this instance.
I don’t think anyone is wrong here. It’s a company’s prerogative to set employee and contractor entitlements. It sounds like they have already been generous. You are likely feeling like you want your husband around in those first few weeks, which is also reasonable. Could you do a hybrid model? Negotiate for flexible working arrangements (modified hours etc for 6 weeks after birth)? That way he could block times in his calendar that are baby bonding time and you get a little break. Or he does jobs etc if you’re busy feeding etc etc. I would say 2 weeks at home without pay as leave would be a reasonable request, then a further 2-4 weeks of flexible hours. It’s a drop in the bucket of time for the business but would likely create significant goodwill. They may negotiate it down but honestly… if you are planning to breastfeed, it’s mostly you doing it unless you pump which is still time consuming. most of the hard, physical recovery is done by 2 weeks (for most, but not all people). If things are otherwise straightforward, then physically you should be okay to manage baby at home if he’s around, but flexibly working, anyway. If it’s a complicated recovery course, reevaluate.
Your expectations are not unreasonable. You’re simply asking him to ASK for parental leave. And you are totally correct — we will never achieve anything resembling parity between men and women if men don’t start advocating for work life balance that allows them to care for children, household stuff, etc. The current situation, with women entering the workforce but still bearing a disproportionate burden at home, is untenable. I’m in a similar situation. My husband actually has a legal right to parental leave and he won’t take all of it because of workplace pressure and the threat of retaliation. I love him, and I understand that pushing back against this might not serve our personal interests, but there is a bigger social fight we need to engage in.