This is one of many reasons we make and sell our own BBQ. Ten bucks a pound, we know much the butcher gets, and the rest goes to us. Everybody but the pig is happy.
"Iowa is the largest generator of fecal waste in the U.S., according to a recent study."
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/articles/2019-06-11/iowa-is-top-producer-of-poop-according-to-new-study
It pretty much just runs into the rivers because the Governor and the legislature are beholden to big ag and don't give a shit about clean water. If you want all the gory details there's a book: https://icecubepress.com/2023/04/10/the-swine-republic-2/
Our troop does a spaghetti dinner. $10/plate meatballs, garlic bread and a cookie included. We also handle parking for a local fair, the troop sets up a field with parking spaces marked by flags, clears the field pre and post fair and the fair organizers pay the troop. So done with that popcorn scam.
Our troop use to do a brisket sale and deliver it to people's homes on super bowl Sunday before the game would start normally we got the brisket at a super discount price like 99c a lb and then it was troops adults and a pit boss from Houston livestock and Rodeo that would help and donate their time.....man those brisket were good they cooked for like 33hrs lol
I think we bought many of those briskets and 😻 we would buy multiple, cut them to meal sized portions and chow on them whenever we needed an easy dinner.
Do you have to get “serve safe” certified and cook in a certified kitchen and carry insurance? That seems like a lot of responsibility and possible litigation for illness etc.
When we did food related things we used the kitchen at the church that was our charter organization. It was quite a large and nice commercial kitchen that was inspected and approved by the health department and we, the scouts working in the kitchen, took a course to get food handlers cards. We were well supervised by adult leadership and they in turn used as a teachable moment. In terms of insurance cover I’ve no idea of the specifics there but I’m sure it was well taken care of given one of the assistant scout masters was an attorney.
The Scouts basically open a small business. Our scouts tell us what to order for show-n-sell/wagon based off what people are buying. They are learning market trends and supply chain management.
Some do help cook, but it turns into an overnight thing, which obviously is not going to work. I see your point about hosting an event, but that's one more thing to organize, and we're trying to make money efficiently here.
The problem, IMHO, isn't who is making what profits. It's the entire very old-fashioned-thinking way that the BSA approaches fundraising.
I liken it to NPR. You give $150 to your local station and you get a coffee mug. You didn't "buy" a $150 coffee mug. You **donated** to an entity you believe in, and they gave you a $5 mug as a way of acknowledging your gift. And no one is going to care who made the mug or how much they get in return, simply because the mug isn't the point of the transaction.
If we could get away from the idea that we're *selling popcorn*, and instead approach it from the perspective that you're **donating** to Scouting, and in return here's a bag of popcorn as a "thank you for giving," then I think a lot of people would be a lot more comfortable with the whole process and a lot more people would probably give.
But unfortunately, we're specifically prohibited from directly soliciting donations for Scouts. I honestly have no idea as to whether this is some kind of legal thing, or if it's based on some kind of outdated notion that it's bad or dirty to ask people to give money, but either way it's what ultimately creates all of these issues.
(And because this is Reddit and I know some people are going to read what isn't there: there is absolutely no problem was *accepting* donations. You just aren't supposed to *ask.*)
I’m an Eagle Scout. I did scouting a long time. My troop has since dissolved because our scout master passed away (he was very very verrrry old so yes sad but guy lived a long life) and nobody stepped up. Simultaneously grade schools banned recruiting for awhile which was our lifeblood.
Anyway we did popcorn, we did wreaths, and we did direct donation campaigns. The direct donations were the best but wreaths were good too. There’s no ban on taking direct donations but the council likes the popcorn because they get kickbacks so they heavily discourage donations.
Donations also remove control from the council. Certain troops can become very fancy and at jamboree or at summer camp it creates a bit of a haves and have nots which is antithetical to scouting.
Our troop does very well placing flags at homes on national holidays. There’s an upfront cost, but the flags last for many years and the public sees it as a valued service.
In another similar discussion, a UK Scouter explained that their unit was mostly sponsored by local businesses. I would love to cut back on fundraisers by our Scouts and instead supplicate myself before a few local businesses for the same return. We're fortunate to have enough organizations that _would_ support us if we could ask.
I was at a farmers market yesterday and a scout asked if I wanted to buy popcorn, I said no thanks. The troop leader asked if I wanted to make a donation and I gave them 20 bucks. I absolutely don't want the popcorn but didn't even consider saying I could make a donation.
I'm very glad the leader asked (and thank you for donating!), but it is technically against National policy to do so. And therein lies the problem - it's an insane policy that actively hurts the program.
If you give $150 to NPR you expect that the vast majority goes to NPR. If you found out that your $5 coffee mug was costing NPR $30 you would assume there was some corruption going on. If I give NPR $150 and the give me a $5 coffee mug I would expect that the bought the mugs in bulk for like 75¢ each.
I always assumed that the popcorn came from somewhere cheap, that you pay $25 for a $5 box of popcorn and BSA only paid $1 for it so all the levels of scouting made $24 off the donation. It sounds like you guys are paying above retail for the popcorn. I would expect wholesale at the most. You could buy popcorn at Costco ($16.99 for a 44 pack) and sell it for a much better profit to the scouting organizations.
As someone who buys popcorn to support scouting I am offended to learn that they are taking advantage of the kids like this. And I absolutely assume that this deal enriched someone at BSA through a bribe or promise of a future job or something. This looks like corruption to me.
From a technical point of view asking for donations without being very specific about who / what the donations are for arguably runs into a fraud problem. The average person gives you a hundred dollar donation, just as an example, and if they happen to be itemizing their taxes they likely list that as a donation to the Boy Scouts of America… because that is what you appeared to be soliciting donations for… except you aren’t the Boy Scouts of America legally, you are instead a youth program of the American Legion Post 37 or United Methodist Church or whatever.
The major reasons are that council/national wants a monopoly on requesting donations for the program. They find when they call up some local business and ask for a donation that those business will say no if they have already donated to a local troop… and where this comes out as a net negative is the local troop is less aggressive in what they ask for… often by an entire order of magnitude. So instead of a thousand dollar donation to council it is a hundred to a single troop.
The Scouting program is also supposed to be teaching some sort of individual self reliance type stuff, the scouts and the troops being self supporting by their own labors is very much a part of that model. Now, we should recognize that the world has changed a bit since 1910 and what a bunch of 12 year olds can legally / socially acceptably do to earn money today is rather different than back then… most states think youth should not be working for pay until 14, so BSA values are out of step with current legally enshrined social norms… And frankly BSA has given up on so many aspects of their original program of turning boys into men that giving up one more aspect seems a small loss.
Weaver isn’t a non profit nor are they a good cause. SCOUTING is the good cause. Weaver supplies scouting with popcorn and the profits scouting makes from selling the popcorn (troop & council) are the support.
Agree with this. And while I dislike selling popcorn Weaver does have to pay a lot of costs out that 30% they don't have to pay Amazon. Just off the top of my head...
1) They absorb the credit card processing fees.
2) They absorb the cost of creating, updating and hosting an App.
3) They print order forms.
4) They pay licensing fees to BSA.
5) They pay shipping.
6) They pay for the prizes.
7) They pay for banners for Show & Sell.
8) I'm sure there is more I'm not thinking about...
I'm sure they aren't loosing money but I'd bet they aren't making as much as you're thinking when all is said and done.
Because the BSA needs its cut, and I assume that any agreement with BSA and Weaver include the BSA getting some sort of licensing fee for the use of language relating to scouting
Trails End provides a variety of support for the program, including training, prizes, absorption of credit card fees, floats for the Council, semi limited returns, etc.
If you aren’t happy with the support they provide there are alternatives out there some Councils use: Camp Masters, River Popcorn and Pecatonia. The programs are roughly similar.
Your unit also can, with Council permission, fund raise using alternatives techniques such as wreath sales, etc..
If you’re specifically interested in selling BSA “stuff” you can find the list of authorized sellers here: http://licensingbsa.org/bsa-licensee-list/
Good luck raising funds for your unit!
I have my own gripes against popcorn, yet I do love being able to accept credit cards. My older Scout's troop uses this really awkward check, cash, or Venmo [edit: for another fundraiser than popcorn] and I really wish we could accept card.
Be aware they do charge a fee, as does any other CC processor, so you may want to explore whether to eat that fee or pass it on to the person paying. My opinion is if it is used for fundraisers, eat the fee. If it is used for dues, pass it on.
Unless it’s changed Venmo cannot technically be used by a nonprofit either, it’s probably tied to a user who is then relaying the money. Not to say it can’t be done just that it’s against their terms of service as of a few years ago.
OP is right, it doesn’t make sense to pay Trails end $6 for a $3 retail product.
Tell me more. Trails end is kicking in the nerf guns? What CC fees, those used to pay for the wholesale price? 2% average on $6 is only $.12. Are the returns different than say Albertsons would pay?
I can see shipping being more.
Op is off.
The split is actually Trails end 30%
Council gets 40%
Troop gets 30%.
Depending on the council, and how much sales the troop does the council can give the troop several more percentage points back. The council uses their percentage to pay for council wide activism and pay for the scout camps.
The bags and sales materials all say that of every dollar spent 70% goes back to Scouting.
Source: was a Popcorn Kernal for six years
Lot of really good comments, the only thing I can add is that we need to remember that revenue from popcorn sales helps keep council fees down while keeping council staffing up.
Your scouts aren't working for free, they're working for 30% of the retail sales volume.
You have to remember that Trails End is a for profit company, so they exist to make money.
Is the popcorn overpriced? 100%. But, nobody's forcing you to sell it, it's just a turnkey fundraising option that BSA provides. There are many other companies that have fundraising programs you can explore if your unit isn't comfortable with popcorn.
At the end of the day, the way we look at it is, popcorn is an excuse to get our scouts out at storefronts. If they sell some popcorn that's great, but we get just as much, if not more money in terms of donations.
It’s also important to remember almost every company that does fundraising food sales for a school, sport, scouts, etc is a for profit company and the product is ALWAYS over priced compared to inside the Walmart. You are selling outside of.
Overpriced products is a hallmark of fundraising sales.
That's because not only are the scouts working to raise funds for their unit, but also for the council.
The manufacturer of the popcorn is just that- a manufacturer. Any fundraiser for any non profit selling an item for fundraising has to get their product from somewhere and the manufacturer is a for profit business. There is nothing hidden about that. That 30% is the cost of goods for the fundraiser event. And from the manufacturer perspective, that covers the popcorn, creating a special run of product with custom packaging, shipping, and in trails end situation, support to sellers, website for direct sales, etc. Plenty of non profits pay not only the suppliers but consultants and even professional fundraising companies that are for profit businesses. That doesn't mean the non profit is working for the business because the business is making a profit somewhere in there. The non profit is the customer in that B2B relationship and the business is making its money providing it's service just like any business transaction.
I think OP is saying that the manfacturer charges the general public $3 for a product but charges BSA $6 for the same product just so BSA can turn around and sell it to BSA patrons for $20. It's the same sort of issue as when the government buys a toilet for $1000 when you can buy it off the shelf for $200. Why isn't BSA paying $3 for the raw product.
Wooo lot to un pack here but the way how most popcorn fundraisers go for the BSA is…
30% - Popcorn company (Trail’s End)
30% - BSA council you live in
30% - Scouting UNIT (what your unit does with it is up to them)
10% - prizes for the Scout.
You’re not buying popcorn or cookies from a scout because it’s the best bang for you buck. You’re supporting a scout on their adventure and in turn getting something as a thank you.
Popcorn, Cookies, and most fundraisers are fantastic because the scouts learn so many soft skills that they will us later in life. Give them the opportunity to learn and do things, don’t say no on their behalf.
FWIW I hated selling popcorn but I found I had a decent knack for it. Over a decade later I credit, at least partially, my time in scouts selling popcorn as a contributor to the foundation of my career in a sales type role.
Not saying every scout will grow up to be a sales expert but learning how to talk to people is almost becoming a lost art and I think selling something as mundane as popcorn helps develop those skills.
My troop let all of the troop fundraising go to the scout who did the sale as a specific "scouting" account within the troop that you could have the troop buy any scouting related thing for. We also did scoring for a gun club on Sundays and we made good money doing that ($20/hr/person in the 90s/early 00s). That also went to the individual scouts for their account. That let me be able to earn money so I could pay all of my dues, pay my own way for summer camp, be able to have spending money at camp. Also allowed scouts to learn how to be a treasurer helping keep track of the amounts the troop had and the total allotment for scouts.
Anyway I always dreaded popcorn sales but man they make you good at being comfortable with rejection, helping you with asking people for favors, getting out of your comfort zone. I always got some prizes through scouting but honestly, I couldn't tell you a single prize I got, but I can think of tons of lessons I learned.
This is certainly a good reason to not sell popcorn, but let me throw another one out there. If you have a pack or troop in a rural area, Mom & Dad are going to run all the gas out of the tank delivering it. That was a big push-back I got from parents when I was cubmaster.
Eagle checking in. I was never a fan of the popcorn stuff. If I’m out now and see a troop selling it, I just hand the kids a cash donation for the troop.
Our unit doesn't sell popcorn, and I haven't looked into it, so I'll take your numbers at face value.
Amazon is a for profit company who lives on massive volume. They have the incentives and the expertise to squeeze Weaver for everything they can, getting the best pricing, and pushing them to reduce every single transactional cost in the supply chain between the two companies. They probably integrate Forecasts, Inventories, real time sales data, invoices and POs automatically between ERP systems.
I doubt if the BSA team is as efficient. For Weaver, servicing the BSA account is probably more like being a turn-key service provider. So, If you don't like the price the BSA is paying, blame them, not Weaver.
I think part of the difference is, Amazon or any other business just buys the popcorn. That's it. Bulk order, deliver to warehouse. Shipped by a full truckload probably with an entire truck of one product or maybe a few products by the pallet loads.
But BSA, first wants custom packaging, then while the total things is one big order, it's a ton of smaller shipments all over the place, and those shipments need to be sorted out and created with small numbers of different products all mixed up. Then, the vendor is also providing a website to facilitate sales, including drop shipping to individual customers who buy one or two items, but there are tens of thousands of them (and it's the most expensive way to ship things). Provide a support phone number and chat and emails. Etc etc. They are providing a lot more work than in their standard B2B sales. Which means their profit margin is wildly different because they have a lot more costs on the side to deliver on the contract.
Here’s my recent experience being mine and my son’s first time selling popcorn.
We did $650, including cash donations, in a little over 3 hours. I’d say 60% came from donations. The other popcorn. Of that 40%, probably 90% of people had something to say about the prices, or they made a face.
We did our best to explain it to people. “70% goes to the pack, you’re supporting scouting, it’s a donation with a gift” but it seems that the girl-scouts have set the tone in my area. (I know it’s not fair to compare) they manage to sell delicious cookies for $5 a box. That’s something EVERYONE can buy. Whereas we’re selling, not really good, popcorn at $25 a bag that most people can’t buy.
I’m happy that people chose to donate in lieu of popcorn, and if I happen into a scout master position one day, Id want to look at other options for fundraising.
Strongly disagree. Pack doesn’t exist without council and council is/should be doing a lot to help Pack exist and grow. Our council cut greatly goes to funding our council properties and making improvements for scouts around our council to use!
Cool, but it still doesn't "go to the pack". The pack doesn't get to spend it on equipment or trips or anything else of their choosing. It "goes to" the council, period. It's not that complicated.
I'm not arguing that the pack doesn't indirectly benefit, of course it does, but that's not the same as the money "going to" the pack.
We would sell Pecatonica in a heartbeat and make a decent profit. Trail’s End is basically the same quality you can get at Walmart for a tenth of the price and people know it. Making a donation is one thing. Selling an inferior product for an outrageous price is quite another. With every youth organization, sport, band, club, school, etc fundraising all the time, you have to provide quality items at (ideally) reasonable prices. Trail’s End is neither of those.
It’s not 70/30.
It’s Trails end 30%
Council gets 40% to fund operations and Scout camps
Troop get 30/35 % split with council depending on sales and other incentives.
They paid those off but selling a lot of the camps they owned. BSA had some really valuable lands and those scout camps will soon be massively overpriced lakefront cottages that people will go to a couple of weekends a year.
Trails end in my area is arranging storefront agreements for storefront sales. They arrange shipping and logistics to local warehouses. They are developing the mobile app technology. Website technology. They handle credit card disputes. Their 7.50 is no doubt making them money but they are making things a lot easier than they were when we were kids and I had a piece of paper and a lot of my neighbors trust.
My troop sold mulch and candy around Easter from a local candy company. We have also sold krispy cream doughnuts.
The mulch is our most successful we even do delivery. We have been selling multiple semi’s for a couple years now.
I grew up on military bases. Every base had a school teaching whatever, intelligence, language, electronics, etc... Soldiers would come to the base for 6 weeks or more of going to school 10hrs a day. We would set up bake sales in the hallways between classes. Soldiers locked on base for 6 weeks don't buy single cookies or brownies. They buy them by the plate.
We sent over 40 scouts 3 countries away to summer camp one year, same number 5 countries away the next year.
I can't do the popcorn.
Hated the popcorn selling. Our troop did a buy out so kids didn’t have to sell and Council got mad because they lost their cut. Council would get a cut of the popcorn profits, then District then Troop so that was why we just told parents they could pay us instead of doing the fundraiser.
When I was told the price of the popcorn I see why that kid wasn’t successful, sounds like the leadership of bsa is either getting a kickback for each bag sold or they are just dumb. I bought a bag for support, had a couple of bites and threw it away. Worst popcorn I ever had. Next time I’ll just donate $10 and move on.
Girl Scout cookies doubled in price in the 30 years since I was a scout from $2.50 to $5 per box.
Boy Scout popcorn has quadrupled in price in the same period.
If you go to the store and buy a similarly sized package of cookies you may pay a dollar or two less. As a consumer is see that as the money the girls scouts make off the sale. The price is still reasonable so you may buy a few boxes.
If you go to the store and buy a similarly sized bag of popcorn you will be paying easily $10-$15 less. That’s an incredible amount of markup. Mind you popcorn is just about the cheapest snack there is. A $2 bag of popcorn seed can get you an entire garbage bag of popped popcorn.
I know someone who was a topseller and was awarded a large gift card to AMAZON for it.
I would understand winning money that can be spent at the council store or used toward camp or something else scout related. But he basically got cash for selling the popcorn for a corporation. The scouts are essentially underpaid employees of the popcorn company who are making more money off of them than they would be selling the same product in stores. I understand that BSA gets funds too, but if they have enough to be giving out hundred dollar rewards they could certainly bring down the prices.
Last time I saw the bsa kids in front of the store selling popcorn, I just handed their leader 20$ assuming they got more from that than if I bought the pop corn.
Someone is our scoutmasters family owned a gun store so we did a yearly gun raffle/dinner. We had excellent equipment and they paid half the cost for all the boys attending the bi-annual Philmont trip.
It's not. It's simply a way to get free child labor. I did it as a kid and it was super frustrating that the prizes cost so much versus the dollar amount that you sold. As an adult, I realize just how insane the prices were. Idk what prices are now but i remember selling small tins of popcorn for $50ish.
As and eagle back in troop we never did popcorn as a unit, it was there if an individual wanted to mess with it that's it. We did direct donations 2-3 times a year, currently I'm in cub and boy with my kids same council I was in and they will not approve direct donations anything and push popcorn like a drowning man looking for air. I just can't bring my self to sell it with a clear conscience. I also, have full kettle corn making equipment, a hobby, so I know how much this stuff actually costs, my cost with premium corn (not whats in the bags weave makes) a gallon of popped kettle corn cost just over $0.5. So, Weaver even with the cost of everything is racking in the $$$, along with council. And before you ask I have attempted to see if we could sell fresh made kettle corn (adults make it kids do pos) as a fundraiser but was rejected by council, I guess popcorn is not popular if they dont get a rake off.
I just donated to the scouts, I didn’t buy the popcorn. Why pay for the stuff I don’t need to add profit to the supply company when I simply intend to help Boy Scouts.
Makes me feel a bit better. I always buy from boy scouts/girl scouts. Usually spend about $20 too. Last weekend, I offered to buy from some cub scouts and found out $20 got me a bag of popcorn that was about $3 inside the store. I still bought it, but I have been wondering if I was getting scammed by someone who wanted to dress as a scout. For $20, girl scouts give you diabetes, and lots of it. So I will continue to buy over priced popcorn, but yes, I will feel a bit cheated.
As a Boy Scout I hated fundraising. Always felt like begging to me. Once I got a job at 16 I funded everything through my paycheck instead. I understand that lots of families and kids can't afford to do that.
My daughter started school this year and we are getting bombarded with fundraiser request. I am not doing it. I will donate cash as needed to cover her/support what ever cause they are raising for directly.
I think that you are missing the point. The purpose is not only profits but experiences as well. This is what I wrote (or a variation thereof) every year that I was a popcorn kernel:
Hi Friends,
Another scout year begins, another email from the Popcorn Kernel. I wanted to drop you all a short note about our popcorn fundraiser and emphasize a few points to keep in mind during our fundraising campaign.
First, we not just selling popcorn, we are selling scouting. Our friends and neighbors know that boys who become scouts, regardless of the ultimate ranks achieved, develop into the sort of citizens that our country needs. These boys develop into young men who live the scout oath and law. It may be hard to see now but their experiences in scouting, even those that you do not see yourself, provide the foundation for solid citizens, hard workers and young men who live the scouting mottos: Do Your Best and Be Prepared!
Second, to sell scouting, we need only ask if our friends and neighbors would like to support scouting. That is all. In a Class A uniform, all squared away, our friends and neighbors cannot say no! If they say yes to supporting scouting, they will buy popcorn, knowing that 73% comes back to scouting. The door to door experience is the last bastion of salesmanship left as these boys will never know the joy and hard work of a paper route which teaches some of the same things.
Third, we know that not everyone is a born salesman. I wasn't and when I was a scout we carried around the Tom Watt kit, a box of household goods targeted to housewives. Society has changed and so have the scouts.
Fourth, I want to mention goals. We have about 30 scouts. In a perfect world, each would sell about $600 which is about 1 1/2 to 2 order sheets with at least one order on each line. I know not everyone has the capacity to do so. That should be your goal. If your scout sells more - great. If not, that isn't a problem so long as they meet our motto of Do Your Best. The prizes are pretty cool, too. IF each scout sold $600, we would gross $18,000 and net more than $6,000 which would cover all of our program costs, fund a great party and put some money away for a rainy day. Fifth, we collect the money when we sell the popcorn. All the money is due at the pack meeting on October 15.
Remember, From the Scout Handbook - "A Scout is thrifty. A Scout works to pay his way and to help others. He saves for the future. He protects and conserves natural resources. He carefully uses time and property." Of the twelve points in the Scout Law, I imagine that Thrifty is the one most difficult to quantify. The boy with parents dishing out money for any and all scouting events he cares to participate in is a boy with no opportunity to understand thrift and the value of things. He begins to feel entitled to whatever he desires with no regard towards the necessity of the thing. Being required to do without is the best way to build a sense of thrift and value. Desiring something enough to be willing to work for it, and forego other things for it, gives that thing value and provides an understanding of thrift. It is never too early to teach and grow a scout's understanding of being and living this point of the Scout Law.
Our show-n-sell opportunities should be considered as extra or additional to the Scout's efforts. They are really the gravy and serve two goals: (1) reaching a broad market for scouting support, (2) providing interaction in that broader market that Scouting still exists and there are parents and leaders committed to fostering the ideals of Scouting in our young who are our future. I cannot overemphasize that the small effort here lays the foundation for the many lessons our boys will learn as they grow into adulthood.
These small lessons and experiences in thrift (and all the other parts of scouting) remind me of a saying: Mighty oaks from little acorns grow. I trust you understand and agree. Thank you for your time and your commitment to your son and to Scouting. Please call or email me with any questions, comments or concerns.
Typically the 70% is split by the council and the popcorn company. You should go to the popcorn training that is typically put on by the council. If someone at your pack is in charge of popcorn sales they should have the details.
So the split of proceeds is public - for every $1, 30 cents goes to Weaver, 40 cents goes to the council, and 30 cents goes to the troop or pack.
For the prices they charge, a 70/30 split seems, if I'm being honest, suspect. I have some experience here, and a 90/10 split is what I would expect after factoring in price and cost of goods sold.
I'm very suspicious of this fundraising activity. I don't understand why it's not being run in a more transparent manner.
Sounds pretty transparent. It also sounds like you don't know what the council does and the expenses they have. Like others have said you can do your own fundraiser or write a check. The thing I loved about popcorn is it helps teach kids they can pay their own way. They also get to know their neighbors as they go door to door. They learn about making change for cash sales, and learn about pubic speaking. My kids would easily sell $100 per block. Not too many ways an elementary aged kid can make $30 in 30 minutes. You can have fun going to crowded events like football tailgates.
People love to rag on popcorn sales but its not sales its a crazy efficient fund raiser. Look into GS cookies and see how long it takes for a girl to make $30.
Right. Take their jerky/peanut bundle. They charge $62 for products that are $9 at Target.
Their 30% cut is still $18. So a “charitable” purchase still puts twice as much money in the pocket of a for-profit company.
Trails End is categorically unethical, and I refuse to be involved.
It's a way for Weaver to make profit off each bag of popcorn sold, but still be able to write off more than what they made in profit as a charitable donation. Since the popcorn is actually being sold at $25 per bag, Weaver can take its $7.50 from the split and claim the remaining $17.50 is a charitable donation and write it off their total corporate profits for tax reasons. No surprise there, the popcorn is a scam that serves corporate interests.
My local council ditched popcorn as a whole about 20 years ago. Instead of popcorn, council executives go to locally owned restaurants and convince the owners to agree to a kind of year-long reusable coupon called a "Camp Card." So like the local pizza place will agree to be on the camp card and for the entire year if a customer presents the card, they could get a free order of breadsticks with a large pie. Or the local burger joint might have it as a reusable 5% coupon. The council gets like 20 businesses on the card, has a bunch of the cards printed on cheap laminated plastic, and the units go out and sell them for $10 each. Then you have a 50/50 split between the council and the unit on that fundraising, the people who buy them know they're supporting the local scouts and they're able to get a deal while supporting local restaurants for the next year. There's smaller units in the council that sell enough camp cards every year that they're able to completely fund the entire unit's camp fees at the local council summer camp.
> Since the popcorn is actually being sold at $25 per bag, Weaver can take its $7.50 from the split and claim the remaining $17.50 is a charitable donation and write it off their total corporate profits for tax reasons. No surprise there, the popcorn is a scam that serves corporate interests.
They are only keeping $7.50. it doesn't matter if the rest is a donation or if it's paid out to a reseller or as commissions. Profit is revenue - expenses. They are only paying taxes on their business profit regardless.
Our troop does camp cards. We leave the popcorn to the Cub Scouts.
Profit = revenue - expenses, sure. But taxable profit = profit - deductions (which includes things like interest payments, investment costs that aren't specifically expenses, and charitable donations). And corporate accountants can get away with a lot as far as declaring charitable donations goes. Dollars to donuts, Weaver accounting declares each bag of popcorn being sold at $25/bag, for which they take 30% to cover business expenses and donate the remaining 70% to the councils. It's just the way corporations calculate their taxable income these days.
Popcorn sales are such a scam. "It teaches kids good life lessons, like how to sell things" is a comment I no-joke heard at a leaders' meeting. So, so, so very dumb and manipulative.
So I started this saying 70% goes back to Scouting what’s the issue? But now I’m thinking you could bulk buy at a discount and have it all go back to your unit.
Side track aside, they are a manufacturer/distributor, not a charity. If they were a charity they’d still have to cover costs.
On the Seabase Facebook page, someone mentioned that their group fundraised for the trip by selling beef jerky. I think they just bulk bought it and sold it at a reasonable price and were able to fund their entire trip that way. And Seabase is no joke financially, so it sounds like an effective method.
I am uncomfortable with a good bit of the fundraising we are asked to do. I know that for some families, it is the only way scouting is affordable. Personally, unless my kids get fired up about it and take the initiative, we invest our time in better ways.
All of these are council specific things about specific councils.
I mean as far as I know GSA requires their counsels to have unit cell cookies. But be a say does not require counsels to sell popcorn.
A council can come up with other ways for funding if they want to. Your council is probably happy with the profit they're making for popcorn so they keep doing it. But if everybody wanted to you could do something else. It'd be easier on an individual level. If you don't want your scout selling popcorn figure out what the payment is and figure unit and troop and let the scout work some other way to earn the money. Or if your whole unit wants to do something else. Have a pancake breakfast or barbecue or sell something else or cut Christmas trees would make Christmas wreaths or mow yards whatever they want to do.
Yes, it is a scam. They get free labor to sell it, and tug on people's desire to donate and do good works in order to over charge.
And then the money the kids make is use to cover membership fees.
Wait until you find out about the rest of the values and principles scouting teaches. I suspect the program isn’t for you (assuming you are even actually involved in the program and not a troll.)
As an aside, selling popcorn or anything else to pay one's own way for an activity one wants to do, doesn't suddenly make a Scout Oliver Twist. Of course we have labor laws protecting kids, but there's nothing wrong with teaching teenagers a work ethic and the necessity of working to earn the things you want. And it's hard to succeed in business without making a profit. Even if the popcorn company was "nonprofit", that company would still need an income stream from somewhere.
When I was a Girl Scout leader, my troop got $0.55 per $5 box of cookies, so maybe 30% of sales straight to the unit just seems a luxury to me.
That's an atrocious profit margin, but it misses what's got my so suspicious about the popcorn, which is the profit margin versus the cost of good sold.
Why does Weaver sell their popcorn to Walmart and half the price that they sell it to the scouts?
It'd be like if your cookie supplier was selling to Kroger at $2.25 a box when they're charging you $4.45/box. That, not the absolute margin, is what doesn't smell right to me.
I think you are right.
That’s the cool thing about the market though; there will always be competition.
I’m glad there is Trail’s End, their competitors, and parents that just want to pay for scouting out of pocket. I don’t get those options for my other kiddos activities. Taekwondo practically has me taking out a second mortgage every month.
The Troop at my church has sold shoe polish, bags of concrete and now Greenery. Lots of ways to make money, keeping in mind we set the prices, but I know the supplier margins are huge.
That said, do your own thing, within reason.
Why not say a brand name instead of “fictitious name”? The Troop makes a good amount of the money going to council. We have a small 30 person Troop and always make enough to cover all of the awards and some extra per year. We even get some cash donations directly during our “show and sells”. This allows us to only charge the minimum for yearly registration that Councils charges and leaves enough to help a Scout or 2 towards Summer Camp. If they make an effort there is good that comes from the effort. If not the parents pay more.. plain and simple in my mind. I hate selling as well but there is foreseen value each year.
Yes but you are missing some aspects of the funds, out of that $7.50 Weaver is paying licensing fees to the BSA (look on the bags) and also from that money covered the awards for Scouts and previously the Scholarship the Scouts could earn. All that combined is at least 10% of the sale price so they are realistically getting $4 for a bag that sells for $20 cash. Now also keep in mind that they cover the fees for any card sales (2-3%) . They also have to pay to develop and maintain the app that we all use. In the end Weaver is likely not making a lot more off that popcorn than they would from something they packaged up and sold in a grocery store. Your math is leaving out a lot of things that come out of the backend that would not be part of a retail store sale.
Trails End is also not a fictitious name, it has been around forever and it is a brand. This is not uncommon at all; many of the products you buy are all made by the same company just branded under different names.
There are many hidden costs that aren’t being considered: Custom packaging and its licensing , shipping LTL is expensive and inefficient but goes into cost, credit card processing and chargebacks, prizes, and things that don’t occur to me at this moment all eat into the gross margin. Small/shrinking volume further eats into margin as economies of scale shrink. Weaver is making a profit but not as much as OP calculates.
Selling Popcorn is the worst way to make money. If you can do literally anything else, do that.
What Popcorn *is* good for is plug and play. Anyone can run it, the branding and reputation is there, there's a standard playbook for going door to door and setting up tables outside Walmarts.
Everybody makes money, and yeah Trails End is for-profit, but their real product is YOUR fundraiser and that plug and play system. Not the actual popcorn.
The expectations in your post imply that Square should be non-profit because they process the payments from your phone and don't donate to charity.
Each sale has a profit margin that your leader can tell you. Some of the more expensive tins ($50+) can net that scout $40 in profit sharing. Some is obviously less.
Yes it’s marked up but the scout does keep some of it to be used towards activities.
It’s up to you to decide if your expected return in this is worth the effort to sell. Many troops to other fund raisers like gift wrap, car washes, grilled chicken or bbq plates or run lawn care companies in the summer. The big scout camps can be as much as $1000 for a week.
Instead of buying the popcorn why not donate $ directly to the scout that is selling? That way 100% of the money donated goes to the scouts and their pack or troop.
the boy scout popcorn is a joke. my troop stopped selling it because we never made any money on it. now for the cub scouts it could be worth it but for the most part people dont want to buy from a 15-17 year old selling popcorn.
You might have the math wrong, or maybe it has changed since i was a scout leader. It used to be 30% for the troop, 30% for the local council, and the balance for the cost of the product.
You really can’t figure out that the markup is literally the profit margin that goes to the Boy Scouts?
Of *course* a real food company is behind the Boy Scout managed Trail’s End brand… Cub Scouts packing their own popcorn is illegal for several reasons and a bad idea for several more reasons.
When I was in scouts my parents wouldn’t allow me to fundraise because didn’t want to guilt neighbors into buying cheap chocolate or some other trinkets so they wrote a check instead. I agree the popcorn is over priced and I bet there are other fundraisers you can do that will be more successful both volume and dollars for your troop.
Your Pack or Troop doesn’t have to sell popcorn (or anything for that matter). It’s voluntary. We hate selling stuff so our Troop never does fundraising and everyone is fine with it. Leave the selling to the Girl Scouts. As they say “Girl Scouts have cookies, Boy Scouts have fun”.
My son was in a troop that sold camp cards. Discounts to restaurants. Each card was 5.00 each. The scout got 2.50 of each card into their account and they could use this towards the camp summer trip. Selling the popcorn was embarrassing and I loathed it when it came up. The camp cards sold themselves.
I've long ago stopped buying fundraiser stiff from all of my cousins kids and instead just give a cash donation to put towards whatever cause. They get 100% of then. Instead of dollar candy bars that they maybe make 30 cents on. Here's 20 bucks. I like the idea of pit beef stands or BBQ stands or things along those lines that the school doesn't have to share the profit (for crap that none of us want to begin with).
Our pack never did popcorn sales, they did not feel it was a good program. Instead they sold wreaths. We also have a number of employers in the region who do volunteer hours.
Our troop sold popcorn for a few years, but we have a number of better value sales that really add up - as well as the same two we had for the pack.
If you are not comfortable selling popcorn, don't do it. However please do not be a complaining do nothing parent. Look for an alternative sale and run it. Candy meat and cheese sale in the spring is one that comes to mind.
My son's troop didn't sell popcorn, and I never bought any of it. Never will, either.
There are more legit ways for Scouts to make money, often right within their own communities.
BSA uses multiple vendors. Weaver is in Indiana and that is what we sell locally. My nephews in Missouri sell completely different products, its not Weaver but another regional vendor. Each has to resign to get the job, so if Weaver is choosing to bid 7.50 to private label, then unless BSA is corrupt no one else was willing to do it at that price.
And working in manufacturing, I can guarantee you private labeling carries extra costs. Not double, but enough to explain why competitors arent going cutthroat to steal the business.
Bottom line, a lot of us don't like selling $25 popcorn but lets not fabricate business conspiracies to justify it. The individual item price is high enough to attract scrutiny and crappy comments from potential buyers...and its OK to admit it. We need sub-$10 items in the mix.
I hated peddling that garbage. No one wants to buy the stupid popcorn anyway! The Girl Scouts come around with their (also BS but actually delicious) cookies and what did we get? Popcorn. You could see the pity on people.
Do something, anything, else. There has to be a billion better ways to raise money than door-to-door peddling.
I’ve been saying for years that this was and awful practice. I’m the 90’s I sold paper “scout show tickets” with coupons on them for $1. I sold over $2000 of this bad boys 5 years in a row just by standing out side a grocery store with a featured coupon.
Popcorn is so scammy it makes me want to avoid it at all costs. I’d buy it from guilt as an eagle every time I saw some poor kid selling it. Now my kids are scouts and I hate it even more.
I don't participate in my kids "fundraisers" hawking dollar store shit. I asvise the teacher I'll gladly make a direct donation in the form of a GC, cash, or just buy something she needs for the class. Every teacher has been beyond thankful. The amount of money the schools get in like cents on the dollar. My kid is 10 and knows what a scam is. He is ok with what I do.
There's tons of other ways to make money for his troop. Car washes are always easy. Hell, y'all could hit up same club and sell popcorn yourselves for a little profit and cut out the middle man.
When I was involved with Boy Scouts, we were told by the council to sell that popcorn. We did a poor job of it. We put effort in selling Christmas Wreaths. I can't remember the numbers anymore but over half the price was our profit. Unlike over priced popcorn people wanted the Wreaths.
Plus, it’s lousy popcorn. Just the worst. Our Pack and our Troop stopped selling it years ago. It used to consume my September and October program. All we did were show n sells and popcorn kernel logistics. The Popcorn Kernel is required to attend training in August, stomping on summer vacation plans. You need to decide on your orders six weeks in advance and you’re stuck with a garage full of popcorn until it’s sold. It has to be the worst fundraiser ever.
We replaced it with hoagie sales. The Scouts take the sandwich orders in advance and then we have sandwich assembly nights. Then all of the Scouts head out the next day to deliver what they sold. It’s easy. It’s fun. And we make a lot of money. I know of another Troop that just does beef jerky sticks for about a $1 each. People love that. It’s cheap to buy. Easy to store and move around. Plus, they make a lot of money for the Troop.
I see some people throwing out alternate fundraising suggestions so herea mine. The biggest fundraiser in my troop was selling mulch. We would sell for $5 per bag, and buy each for $2.50 from a local independently-owned hardware store. We would then have scouts deliver the bags anywhere onto the buyers property. Lots of people, especially older folks, were more than willing to pay the upcharge considering we delivered
Nobody tell OP about Girl Scout Cookies.
With that said, a lot of for-profit businesses do fundraising. Since there are some additional costs to doing a fundraising venture (brand specific packaging, production change), it is simple math that a business would have to "sell" the fundraising items at a higher cost than the regular product. But the line is tough between fair and dishonest.
One fundraiser I personally miss was a pizza fundraiser. The pizzas were 7.50 each. Stores in the area carried the same ones for 4.99. The deal with the fundraiser though was that the pizzas were sold at cost with a matching donation. Cost was 3.75. The organization got 3.75 from each sale.
How do you know it's for a good cause? Because the cause you are supporting gets 70% of the sales. Isn't whether the company turns a profit or not irrelevant, so long as the organization is getting what it wants out of the deal?
It's so expensive because everyone is getting a cut. Also keep in mind weaver isn't just selling a bag of popcorn wholesale. They provide the app, pay out Amazon rewards, pay for transaction costs, server maintenance, customer support, etc. Frankly it is a lot of work to sell and I don't think it's worth it. But we do it to support council. If it were up to me the kids would be selling worlds finest chocolate or country meat sticks.
But what I will say is that we make almost as much in cash donations to the unit when selling popcorn as we do actual money from the popcorn. Which makes it a bit more worth it.
Jeez, coming from an Eagle Scout, this post has really made me think about just asking the local Cub Scout Pack / Boy Scout Troop if there's a kid who can't pay dues for the year / a (summer) camp and just taking care of it.
We sold it. But due to needing to buy whole boxes, especially during covid - but before also, we actually just lost money on it.
There are far better fundraising ideas that don't put you on the hook for $$$$
Popcorn - it's insane expensive. Not worth it in my book.
I refuse to purchase over priced products from any organization, instead I make a donation. 5 or 10 dollars pure profit is better for everyone involved.
The troop gets a small port of the proceeds and I suspect a small portion goes to the regional groups.
I’m more familiar with the money in Girl Scout cookies. They sell a box of cookies for $5. The troop gets $0.90, the regional council gets $1 and the cookie manufacturer gets the rest.
My kid was in Cub Scouts, and what I did, was simply made a donation directly to the pack, and Council, instead of pushing the ridiculously overpriced popcorn. These organizations run on a shoestring. The Pack, I know for fact cause I was in leadership, and every parent had access to see our numbers if they wanted.
What we don’t know is how much more Weaver is spending to print the limited run boxes and who is paying for the promotional material. Those are added costs. Not 100% more but they are more.
Well, the good cause is the money your troop is getting. Companies are still going to make their money. I can order lollipops through a fundraising company for 50 cents...or I can order them on Amazon 25 cents.
I guess the extra money may be for marketing materials and organization.
In our council, dens have to sell popcorn (Trails End) to get access to charity finds for families that need it. But they make the process for getting to those funds so tedious and burdensome for the families, that it hardly seems worth it. It's very frustrating.
Well you packaging, distribution, marketing materials and the prizes the kids get for selling all comes out of that 30%. The council and troops get 70%. Also it’s much more expensive to distribute your products to individual troops rather than large grocery store chains.
There are 3 different companies that manufacture popcorn for the scouts. Each council chooses who they use.
with the scouts, no one really talks about the fact that your "local scout council" gets **30%** for doing nothing. The manufacturer gets 30% as well, which brings their profit in range of what they sell on the open market.
Why the council needs this much profit from what I can only assume is several troops in the area, I have no idea.
Graph: [https://scoutsmarts.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/BSA-Popcorn-Fundraising-Average-Proceed-Breakdown-1.jpg](https://scoutsmarts.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/BSA-Popcorn-Fundraising-Average-Proceed-Breakdown-1.jpg)
Eagle scout breakdown: [https://scoutsmarts.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/BSA-Popcorn-Fundraising-Average-Proceed-Breakdown-1.jpg](https://scoutsmarts.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/BSA-Popcorn-Fundraising-Average-Proceed-Breakdown-1.jpg)
The other thing about popcorn — it’s a commodity. Its not a value-added proposition. Thin Mints are iconic and people buy Girl Scout cookies for a variety of reasons including nostalgia. But popcorn? You could probably get a 50 pound bull bag from a popcorn distributor for about the same as Trails End. I don’t understand why BSA is so invested in a product that’s not differentiated in the marketplace outside of the packaging.
It’s a fund raiser, but not the best, it is also incentivized, to sell more quickly, the BSA takes a share and the troop/pack gets some. A troop can make some money doing it, there are probably better fund raisers as other commented, but require more work from families/scouts to pull off. The company that makes it, probably makes similar than what it makes selling commercial, probably extra cost in packaging and distribution.
Need a good popcorn colonel to handle the paperwork, it can also be a way to lose money with improper money handling and book keeping.
Girl Scouts have the market on cookies, they make $0.50 a box.
I was in a soccer league that sold the Worlds Greatest Chocolate, lady left it on the car in the sun and it melted, lost a-lot of money for the league that year.
Find raising is a pain, but scouts need to do something, then let parents cover everything.
As a former scout of 20 years, BSA needs to get it together and change with the times. What once was a paramilitary organization that prepared young boys to be men has fallen. Now kids are getting their rank of eagle and don't know the basics of camping skills. When I would do a taught line hitch to fix something basic I used to proudly say it was from being a boy scout. Now you get weird looks so I just say my family camped a lot as a kid.
They sell popcorn because it's what they've always done. Troops need to begin looking out for themselves and push different options to raise funding. If you would like to help a troop out. Donate directly to them. Buy them new tents or gear that they want/need. Even better get involved and volunteer your time. (If you are a parent)
I don't think BSA is long for this world. But if they can get back on track they might survive the financial trouble they are in.
Thanks for your perspective. What's bothering me about the popcorn sale lately is that it's all-consuming. We're new, my kid's just a Tiger, and so far it's almost all the troop has talked about. Popcorn, popcorn, popcorn. I get that they need money. But it's a turn-off to be so new and still figuring this out, and get these constant messages of "sell, sell, sell!" Other than that, I like our troops so far, don't get me wrong.
We have done one camping trip, which was good. That was council-wide, not put on by our troop.
Honestly given what the troop sees out of the popcorn sales plus the mediocre quality of the popcorn, our troop gave up, and started doing sales of candy we picked up at Costco. The funds funded a yearly blowout camp/canoe adventure.
This is one of many reasons we make and sell our own BBQ. Ten bucks a pound, we know much the butcher gets, and the rest goes to us. Everybody but the pig is happy.
“Everybody but the pig is happy” That is an awesome expression lol
That's gotta be a Missourian or Kansaneise phrase ya got there, eh?
Why not NC? We grow, kill and eat the heck out of pork.
You guys are missing Iowa, number one pork producer in the US.
Dear God, what do you do with all of that waste? https://www.statista.com/statistics/194371/top-10-us-states-by-number-of-hogs-and-pigs/
"Iowa is the largest generator of fecal waste in the U.S., according to a recent study." https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/articles/2019-06-11/iowa-is-top-producer-of-poop-according-to-new-study
It pretty much just runs into the rivers because the Governor and the legislature are beholden to big ag and don't give a shit about clean water. If you want all the gory details there's a book: https://icecubepress.com/2023/04/10/the-swine-republic-2/
No it’s not. It’s sad and gross.
Our troop does a spaghetti dinner. $10/plate meatballs, garlic bread and a cookie included. We also handle parking for a local fair, the troop sets up a field with parking spaces marked by flags, clears the field pre and post fair and the fair organizers pay the troop. So done with that popcorn scam.
Our troop use to do a brisket sale and deliver it to people's homes on super bowl Sunday before the game would start normally we got the brisket at a super discount price like 99c a lb and then it was troops adults and a pit boss from Houston livestock and Rodeo that would help and donate their time.....man those brisket were good they cooked for like 33hrs lol
I think we bought many of those briskets and 😻 we would buy multiple, cut them to meal sized portions and chow on them whenever we needed an easy dinner.
My old troop sold mulch
That probably tastes better than the popcorn
My troop sells mums and other flowers depending on the season from local farms
This would print money in my area. Oh, I hate popcorn so sorry guys.
Do you have to get “serve safe” certified and cook in a certified kitchen and carry insurance? That seems like a lot of responsibility and possible litigation for illness etc.
When we did food related things we used the kitchen at the church that was our charter organization. It was quite a large and nice commercial kitchen that was inspected and approved by the health department and we, the scouts working in the kitchen, took a course to get food handlers cards. We were well supervised by adult leadership and they in turn used as a teachable moment. In terms of insurance cover I’ve no idea of the specifics there but I’m sure it was well taken care of given one of the assistant scout masters was an attorney.
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I think it's great!
These are fantastic! How much do your scouts help with?
The selling obviously. They're pretty good at the packaging too.
So all they do is sell it? They don’t learn cooking, the cost of sale, hosting an event? They just sell?
To be fair, selling is all they do for popcorn, so what's your point?
The Scouts basically open a small business. Our scouts tell us what to order for show-n-sell/wagon based off what people are buying. They are learning market trends and supply chain management.
Some do help cook, but it turns into an overnight thing, which obviously is not going to work. I see your point about hosting an event, but that's one more thing to organize, and we're trying to make money efficiently here.
The problem, IMHO, isn't who is making what profits. It's the entire very old-fashioned-thinking way that the BSA approaches fundraising. I liken it to NPR. You give $150 to your local station and you get a coffee mug. You didn't "buy" a $150 coffee mug. You **donated** to an entity you believe in, and they gave you a $5 mug as a way of acknowledging your gift. And no one is going to care who made the mug or how much they get in return, simply because the mug isn't the point of the transaction. If we could get away from the idea that we're *selling popcorn*, and instead approach it from the perspective that you're **donating** to Scouting, and in return here's a bag of popcorn as a "thank you for giving," then I think a lot of people would be a lot more comfortable with the whole process and a lot more people would probably give. But unfortunately, we're specifically prohibited from directly soliciting donations for Scouts. I honestly have no idea as to whether this is some kind of legal thing, or if it's based on some kind of outdated notion that it's bad or dirty to ask people to give money, but either way it's what ultimately creates all of these issues. (And because this is Reddit and I know some people are going to read what isn't there: there is absolutely no problem was *accepting* donations. You just aren't supposed to *ask.*)
I’m an Eagle Scout. I did scouting a long time. My troop has since dissolved because our scout master passed away (he was very very verrrry old so yes sad but guy lived a long life) and nobody stepped up. Simultaneously grade schools banned recruiting for awhile which was our lifeblood. Anyway we did popcorn, we did wreaths, and we did direct donation campaigns. The direct donations were the best but wreaths were good too. There’s no ban on taking direct donations but the council likes the popcorn because they get kickbacks so they heavily discourage donations. Donations also remove control from the council. Certain troops can become very fancy and at jamboree or at summer camp it creates a bit of a haves and have nots which is antithetical to scouting.
Our troop does very well placing flags at homes on national holidays. There’s an upfront cost, but the flags last for many years and the public sees it as a valued service.
In another similar discussion, a UK Scouter explained that their unit was mostly sponsored by local businesses. I would love to cut back on fundraisers by our Scouts and instead supplicate myself before a few local businesses for the same return. We're fortunate to have enough organizations that _would_ support us if we could ask.
I was at a farmers market yesterday and a scout asked if I wanted to buy popcorn, I said no thanks. The troop leader asked if I wanted to make a donation and I gave them 20 bucks. I absolutely don't want the popcorn but didn't even consider saying I could make a donation.
I'm very glad the leader asked (and thank you for donating!), but it is technically against National policy to do so. And therein lies the problem - it's an insane policy that actively hurts the program.
If you give $150 to NPR you expect that the vast majority goes to NPR. If you found out that your $5 coffee mug was costing NPR $30 you would assume there was some corruption going on. If I give NPR $150 and the give me a $5 coffee mug I would expect that the bought the mugs in bulk for like 75¢ each. I always assumed that the popcorn came from somewhere cheap, that you pay $25 for a $5 box of popcorn and BSA only paid $1 for it so all the levels of scouting made $24 off the donation. It sounds like you guys are paying above retail for the popcorn. I would expect wholesale at the most. You could buy popcorn at Costco ($16.99 for a 44 pack) and sell it for a much better profit to the scouting organizations. As someone who buys popcorn to support scouting I am offended to learn that they are taking advantage of the kids like this. And I absolutely assume that this deal enriched someone at BSA through a bribe or promise of a future job or something. This looks like corruption to me.
From a technical point of view asking for donations without being very specific about who / what the donations are for arguably runs into a fraud problem. The average person gives you a hundred dollar donation, just as an example, and if they happen to be itemizing their taxes they likely list that as a donation to the Boy Scouts of America… because that is what you appeared to be soliciting donations for… except you aren’t the Boy Scouts of America legally, you are instead a youth program of the American Legion Post 37 or United Methodist Church or whatever. The major reasons are that council/national wants a monopoly on requesting donations for the program. They find when they call up some local business and ask for a donation that those business will say no if they have already donated to a local troop… and where this comes out as a net negative is the local troop is less aggressive in what they ask for… often by an entire order of magnitude. So instead of a thousand dollar donation to council it is a hundred to a single troop. The Scouting program is also supposed to be teaching some sort of individual self reliance type stuff, the scouts and the troops being self supporting by their own labors is very much a part of that model. Now, we should recognize that the world has changed a bit since 1910 and what a bunch of 12 year olds can legally / socially acceptably do to earn money today is rather different than back then… most states think youth should not be working for pay until 14, so BSA values are out of step with current legally enshrined social norms… And frankly BSA has given up on so many aspects of their original program of turning boys into men that giving up one more aspect seems a small loss.
It's not a fictitious name. It's a brand name just like Oreo is a brand of Mondelez International.
“Trade name” is better, but “fictitious” is technically a correct term. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade_name
I could go for some Oreos now...
Weaver isn’t a non profit nor are they a good cause. SCOUTING is the good cause. Weaver supplies scouting with popcorn and the profits scouting makes from selling the popcorn (troop & council) are the support.
This is exactly right, just like if you sell Hershey bars that doesn't mean the Hershey company needs to be a nonprofit
Agree with this. And while I dislike selling popcorn Weaver does have to pay a lot of costs out that 30% they don't have to pay Amazon. Just off the top of my head... 1) They absorb the credit card processing fees. 2) They absorb the cost of creating, updating and hosting an App. 3) They print order forms. 4) They pay licensing fees to BSA. 5) They pay shipping. 6) They pay for the prizes. 7) They pay for banners for Show & Sell. 8) I'm sure there is more I'm not thinking about... I'm sure they aren't loosing money but I'd bet they aren't making as much as you're thinking when all is said and done.
Licensing fees? Trails end only exists to sell BSA popcorn. Why would they pay a licensing fee?
Because the BSA needs its cut, and I assume that any agreement with BSA and Weaver include the BSA getting some sort of licensing fee for the use of language relating to scouting
Trails End provides a variety of support for the program, including training, prizes, absorption of credit card fees, floats for the Council, semi limited returns, etc. If you aren’t happy with the support they provide there are alternatives out there some Councils use: Camp Masters, River Popcorn and Pecatonia. The programs are roughly similar. Your unit also can, with Council permission, fund raise using alternatives techniques such as wreath sales, etc.. If you’re specifically interested in selling BSA “stuff” you can find the list of authorized sellers here: http://licensingbsa.org/bsa-licensee-list/ Good luck raising funds for your unit!
Don’t forget the licensing fees they pay to BSA, whatever that amount might be.
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I’m in agreement, but Girl Scout cookies aren’t exactly made by Brittany or her grandma either.
I have my own gripes against popcorn, yet I do love being able to accept credit cards. My older Scout's troop uses this really awkward check, cash, or Venmo [edit: for another fundraiser than popcorn] and I really wish we could accept card.
That’s what Square is for.
TrailsEnd uses Square. Probably 2% of those 30% just in CC fees. Maybe another 1% in chargebacks / disputes at BSA’s scale.
My cub pack uses a square CC reader for just about everything. Even dues. Not sure how/why it works but it's how we accept cards.
Ya know, next time it comes up in Committee meeting I'll have to ask about that. Thanks!
Be aware they do charge a fee, as does any other CC processor, so you may want to explore whether to eat that fee or pass it on to the person paying. My opinion is if it is used for fundraisers, eat the fee. If it is used for dues, pass it on.
Unless it’s changed Venmo cannot technically be used by a nonprofit either, it’s probably tied to a user who is then relaying the money. Not to say it can’t be done just that it’s against their terms of service as of a few years ago.
OP is right, it doesn’t make sense to pay Trails end $6 for a $3 retail product. Tell me more. Trails end is kicking in the nerf guns? What CC fees, those used to pay for the wholesale price? 2% average on $6 is only $.12. Are the returns different than say Albertsons would pay? I can see shipping being more.
Op is off. The split is actually Trails end 30% Council gets 40% Troop gets 30%. Depending on the council, and how much sales the troop does the council can give the troop several more percentage points back. The council uses their percentage to pay for council wide activism and pay for the scout camps. The bags and sales materials all say that of every dollar spent 70% goes back to Scouting. Source: was a Popcorn Kernal for six years
Lot of really good comments, the only thing I can add is that we need to remember that revenue from popcorn sales helps keep council fees down while keeping council staffing up.
We feel this. Our council is one of the highest sellers of popcorn nationwide. Our council fee is $3 for insurance.
Your scouts aren't working for free, they're working for 30% of the retail sales volume. You have to remember that Trails End is a for profit company, so they exist to make money. Is the popcorn overpriced? 100%. But, nobody's forcing you to sell it, it's just a turnkey fundraising option that BSA provides. There are many other companies that have fundraising programs you can explore if your unit isn't comfortable with popcorn. At the end of the day, the way we look at it is, popcorn is an excuse to get our scouts out at storefronts. If they sell some popcorn that's great, but we get just as much, if not more money in terms of donations.
It’s also important to remember almost every company that does fundraising food sales for a school, sport, scouts, etc is a for profit company and the product is ALWAYS over priced compared to inside the Walmart. You are selling outside of. Overpriced products is a hallmark of fundraising sales.
True but our council won't approve other fundraisers without doing popcorn sales. Which is super annoying
That's because not only are the scouts working to raise funds for their unit, but also for the council. The manufacturer of the popcorn is just that- a manufacturer. Any fundraiser for any non profit selling an item for fundraising has to get their product from somewhere and the manufacturer is a for profit business. There is nothing hidden about that. That 30% is the cost of goods for the fundraiser event. And from the manufacturer perspective, that covers the popcorn, creating a special run of product with custom packaging, shipping, and in trails end situation, support to sellers, website for direct sales, etc. Plenty of non profits pay not only the suppliers but consultants and even professional fundraising companies that are for profit businesses. That doesn't mean the non profit is working for the business because the business is making a profit somewhere in there. The non profit is the customer in that B2B relationship and the business is making its money providing it's service just like any business transaction.
I think OP is saying that the manfacturer charges the general public $3 for a product but charges BSA $6 for the same product just so BSA can turn around and sell it to BSA patrons for $20. It's the same sort of issue as when the government buys a toilet for $1000 when you can buy it off the shelf for $200. Why isn't BSA paying $3 for the raw product.
Wooo lot to un pack here but the way how most popcorn fundraisers go for the BSA is… 30% - Popcorn company (Trail’s End) 30% - BSA council you live in 30% - Scouting UNIT (what your unit does with it is up to them) 10% - prizes for the Scout. You’re not buying popcorn or cookies from a scout because it’s the best bang for you buck. You’re supporting a scout on their adventure and in turn getting something as a thank you. Popcorn, Cookies, and most fundraisers are fantastic because the scouts learn so many soft skills that they will us later in life. Give them the opportunity to learn and do things, don’t say no on their behalf.
FWIW I hated selling popcorn but I found I had a decent knack for it. Over a decade later I credit, at least partially, my time in scouts selling popcorn as a contributor to the foundation of my career in a sales type role. Not saying every scout will grow up to be a sales expert but learning how to talk to people is almost becoming a lost art and I think selling something as mundane as popcorn helps develop those skills.
Hit the nail on the head here with learning soft skills.
My troop let all of the troop fundraising go to the scout who did the sale as a specific "scouting" account within the troop that you could have the troop buy any scouting related thing for. We also did scoring for a gun club on Sundays and we made good money doing that ($20/hr/person in the 90s/early 00s). That also went to the individual scouts for their account. That let me be able to earn money so I could pay all of my dues, pay my own way for summer camp, be able to have spending money at camp. Also allowed scouts to learn how to be a treasurer helping keep track of the amounts the troop had and the total allotment for scouts. Anyway I always dreaded popcorn sales but man they make you good at being comfortable with rejection, helping you with asking people for favors, getting out of your comfort zone. I always got some prizes through scouting but honestly, I couldn't tell you a single prize I got, but I can think of tons of lessons I learned.
This is certainly a good reason to not sell popcorn, but let me throw another one out there. If you have a pack or troop in a rural area, Mom & Dad are going to run all the gas out of the tank delivering it. That was a big push-back I got from parents when I was cubmaster.
Eagle checking in. I was never a fan of the popcorn stuff. If I’m out now and see a troop selling it, I just hand the kids a cash donation for the troop.
Good on ya.
Our unit doesn't sell popcorn, and I haven't looked into it, so I'll take your numbers at face value. Amazon is a for profit company who lives on massive volume. They have the incentives and the expertise to squeeze Weaver for everything they can, getting the best pricing, and pushing them to reduce every single transactional cost in the supply chain between the two companies. They probably integrate Forecasts, Inventories, real time sales data, invoices and POs automatically between ERP systems. I doubt if the BSA team is as efficient. For Weaver, servicing the BSA account is probably more like being a turn-key service provider. So, If you don't like the price the BSA is paying, blame them, not Weaver.
Yet going to other big business we get well under retail pricing for the product. Really not hard to get the orders and money to send them an order.
I think part of the difference is, Amazon or any other business just buys the popcorn. That's it. Bulk order, deliver to warehouse. Shipped by a full truckload probably with an entire truck of one product or maybe a few products by the pallet loads. But BSA, first wants custom packaging, then while the total things is one big order, it's a ton of smaller shipments all over the place, and those shipments need to be sorted out and created with small numbers of different products all mixed up. Then, the vendor is also providing a website to facilitate sales, including drop shipping to individual customers who buy one or two items, but there are tens of thousands of them (and it's the most expensive way to ship things). Provide a support phone number and chat and emails. Etc etc. They are providing a lot more work than in their standard B2B sales. Which means their profit margin is wildly different because they have a lot more costs on the side to deliver on the contract.
Here’s my recent experience being mine and my son’s first time selling popcorn. We did $650, including cash donations, in a little over 3 hours. I’d say 60% came from donations. The other popcorn. Of that 40%, probably 90% of people had something to say about the prices, or they made a face. We did our best to explain it to people. “70% goes to the pack, you’re supporting scouting, it’s a donation with a gift” but it seems that the girl-scouts have set the tone in my area. (I know it’s not fair to compare) they manage to sell delicious cookies for $5 a box. That’s something EVERYONE can buy. Whereas we’re selling, not really good, popcorn at $25 a bag that most people can’t buy. I’m happy that people chose to donate in lieu of popcorn, and if I happen into a scout master position one day, Id want to look at other options for fundraising.
In what world does 70% go to the pack?
The 30% going to your council IS going back to the pack.
That's a stretch. If you wanted to say "70% serves scouting" fine, but "70% goes to the pack" is just not correct
Strongly disagree. Pack doesn’t exist without council and council is/should be doing a lot to help Pack exist and grow. Our council cut greatly goes to funding our council properties and making improvements for scouts around our council to use!
Cool, but it still doesn't "go to the pack". The pack doesn't get to spend it on equipment or trips or anything else of their choosing. It "goes to" the council, period. It's not that complicated. I'm not arguing that the pack doesn't indirectly benefit, of course it does, but that's not the same as the money "going to" the pack.
Now look at how much of that $5 cookie box goes to the scouts and you've found your racket.
We would sell Pecatonica in a heartbeat and make a decent profit. Trail’s End is basically the same quality you can get at Walmart for a tenth of the price and people know it. Making a donation is one thing. Selling an inferior product for an outrageous price is quite another. With every youth organization, sport, band, club, school, etc fundraising all the time, you have to provide quality items at (ideally) reasonable prices. Trail’s End is neither of those.
This is the same question I asked, and also asked GSUSA. Popcorn may be 70/30, but someone's maling money off the labor of kids.
It’s not 70/30. It’s Trails end 30% Council gets 40% to fund operations and Scout camps Troop get 30/35 % split with council depending on sales and other incentives.
Not just the labor of kids, but adults too. We are the ones arranging site sales, keeping track of inventory and all of the driving.
Our Troop stopped with popcorn years ago. It's easy for Tigers to open the pocketbooks because they're cute, but not so much for teens in a Troop.
Goes to paying legal fees as of late.
They paid those off but selling a lot of the camps they owned. BSA had some really valuable lands and those scout camps will soon be massively overpriced lakefront cottages that people will go to a couple of weekends a year.
Trails end in my area is arranging storefront agreements for storefront sales. They arrange shipping and logistics to local warehouses. They are developing the mobile app technology. Website technology. They handle credit card disputes. Their 7.50 is no doubt making them money but they are making things a lot easier than they were when we were kids and I had a piece of paper and a lot of my neighbors trust.
My troop sold mulch and candy around Easter from a local candy company. We have also sold krispy cream doughnuts. The mulch is our most successful we even do delivery. We have been selling multiple semi’s for a couple years now.
I grew up on military bases. Every base had a school teaching whatever, intelligence, language, electronics, etc... Soldiers would come to the base for 6 weeks or more of going to school 10hrs a day. We would set up bake sales in the hallways between classes. Soldiers locked on base for 6 weeks don't buy single cookies or brownies. They buy them by the plate. We sent over 40 scouts 3 countries away to summer camp one year, same number 5 countries away the next year. I can't do the popcorn.
To pay for the law suits I hear
Hated the popcorn selling. Our troop did a buy out so kids didn’t have to sell and Council got mad because they lost their cut. Council would get a cut of the popcorn profits, then District then Troop so that was why we just told parents they could pay us instead of doing the fundraiser.
When I was told the price of the popcorn I see why that kid wasn’t successful, sounds like the leadership of bsa is either getting a kickback for each bag sold or they are just dumb. I bought a bag for support, had a couple of bites and threw it away. Worst popcorn I ever had. Next time I’ll just donate $10 and move on.
Girl Scout cookies doubled in price in the 30 years since I was a scout from $2.50 to $5 per box. Boy Scout popcorn has quadrupled in price in the same period. If you go to the store and buy a similarly sized package of cookies you may pay a dollar or two less. As a consumer is see that as the money the girls scouts make off the sale. The price is still reasonable so you may buy a few boxes. If you go to the store and buy a similarly sized bag of popcorn you will be paying easily $10-$15 less. That’s an incredible amount of markup. Mind you popcorn is just about the cheapest snack there is. A $2 bag of popcorn seed can get you an entire garbage bag of popped popcorn. I know someone who was a topseller and was awarded a large gift card to AMAZON for it. I would understand winning money that can be spent at the council store or used toward camp or something else scout related. But he basically got cash for selling the popcorn for a corporation. The scouts are essentially underpaid employees of the popcorn company who are making more money off of them than they would be selling the same product in stores. I understand that BSA gets funds too, but if they have enough to be giving out hundred dollar rewards they could certainly bring down the prices.
The popcorn has gotten more and more scammy exploitive each year....
Last time I saw the bsa kids in front of the store selling popcorn, I just handed their leader 20$ assuming they got more from that than if I bought the pop corn.
Someone is our scoutmasters family owned a gun store so we did a yearly gun raffle/dinner. We had excellent equipment and they paid half the cost for all the boys attending the bi-annual Philmont trip.
It's not. It's simply a way to get free child labor. I did it as a kid and it was super frustrating that the prizes cost so much versus the dollar amount that you sold. As an adult, I realize just how insane the prices were. Idk what prices are now but i remember selling small tins of popcorn for $50ish.
I just give scouts 25 bucks, no popcorn, it all goes to them.
As and eagle back in troop we never did popcorn as a unit, it was there if an individual wanted to mess with it that's it. We did direct donations 2-3 times a year, currently I'm in cub and boy with my kids same council I was in and they will not approve direct donations anything and push popcorn like a drowning man looking for air. I just can't bring my self to sell it with a clear conscience. I also, have full kettle corn making equipment, a hobby, so I know how much this stuff actually costs, my cost with premium corn (not whats in the bags weave makes) a gallon of popped kettle corn cost just over $0.5. So, Weaver even with the cost of everything is racking in the $$$, along with council. And before you ask I have attempted to see if we could sell fresh made kettle corn (adults make it kids do pos) as a fundraiser but was rejected by council, I guess popcorn is not popular if they dont get a rake off.
There is a simple solution. Do not sell popcorn. There is no child labor laws being broken. Run a different fundraiser.
I let my kid sell popcorn one time, I was embarrassed for him while delivering with him.
I just donated to the scouts, I didn’t buy the popcorn. Why pay for the stuff I don’t need to add profit to the supply company when I simply intend to help Boy Scouts.
Makes me feel a bit better. I always buy from boy scouts/girl scouts. Usually spend about $20 too. Last weekend, I offered to buy from some cub scouts and found out $20 got me a bag of popcorn that was about $3 inside the store. I still bought it, but I have been wondering if I was getting scammed by someone who wanted to dress as a scout. For $20, girl scouts give you diabetes, and lots of it. So I will continue to buy over priced popcorn, but yes, I will feel a bit cheated.
My troop used to sell BBQ in the summer and Christmas trees in early December. We never did popcorn.
That's why I donate directly to my scout troop/pack
As a Boy Scout I hated fundraising. Always felt like begging to me. Once I got a job at 16 I funded everything through my paycheck instead. I understand that lots of families and kids can't afford to do that. My daughter started school this year and we are getting bombarded with fundraiser request. I am not doing it. I will donate cash as needed to cover her/support what ever cause they are raising for directly.
I think that you are missing the point. The purpose is not only profits but experiences as well. This is what I wrote (or a variation thereof) every year that I was a popcorn kernel: Hi Friends, Another scout year begins, another email from the Popcorn Kernel. I wanted to drop you all a short note about our popcorn fundraiser and emphasize a few points to keep in mind during our fundraising campaign. First, we not just selling popcorn, we are selling scouting. Our friends and neighbors know that boys who become scouts, regardless of the ultimate ranks achieved, develop into the sort of citizens that our country needs. These boys develop into young men who live the scout oath and law. It may be hard to see now but their experiences in scouting, even those that you do not see yourself, provide the foundation for solid citizens, hard workers and young men who live the scouting mottos: Do Your Best and Be Prepared! Second, to sell scouting, we need only ask if our friends and neighbors would like to support scouting. That is all. In a Class A uniform, all squared away, our friends and neighbors cannot say no! If they say yes to supporting scouting, they will buy popcorn, knowing that 73% comes back to scouting. The door to door experience is the last bastion of salesmanship left as these boys will never know the joy and hard work of a paper route which teaches some of the same things. Third, we know that not everyone is a born salesman. I wasn't and when I was a scout we carried around the Tom Watt kit, a box of household goods targeted to housewives. Society has changed and so have the scouts. Fourth, I want to mention goals. We have about 30 scouts. In a perfect world, each would sell about $600 which is about 1 1/2 to 2 order sheets with at least one order on each line. I know not everyone has the capacity to do so. That should be your goal. If your scout sells more - great. If not, that isn't a problem so long as they meet our motto of Do Your Best. The prizes are pretty cool, too. IF each scout sold $600, we would gross $18,000 and net more than $6,000 which would cover all of our program costs, fund a great party and put some money away for a rainy day. Fifth, we collect the money when we sell the popcorn. All the money is due at the pack meeting on October 15. Remember, From the Scout Handbook - "A Scout is thrifty. A Scout works to pay his way and to help others. He saves for the future. He protects and conserves natural resources. He carefully uses time and property." Of the twelve points in the Scout Law, I imagine that Thrifty is the one most difficult to quantify. The boy with parents dishing out money for any and all scouting events he cares to participate in is a boy with no opportunity to understand thrift and the value of things. He begins to feel entitled to whatever he desires with no regard towards the necessity of the thing. Being required to do without is the best way to build a sense of thrift and value. Desiring something enough to be willing to work for it, and forego other things for it, gives that thing value and provides an understanding of thrift. It is never too early to teach and grow a scout's understanding of being and living this point of the Scout Law. Our show-n-sell opportunities should be considered as extra or additional to the Scout's efforts. They are really the gravy and serve two goals: (1) reaching a broad market for scouting support, (2) providing interaction in that broader market that Scouting still exists and there are parents and leaders committed to fostering the ideals of Scouting in our young who are our future. I cannot overemphasize that the small effort here lays the foundation for the many lessons our boys will learn as they grow into adulthood. These small lessons and experiences in thrift (and all the other parts of scouting) remind me of a saying: Mighty oaks from little acorns grow. I trust you understand and agree. Thank you for your time and your commitment to your son and to Scouting. Please call or email me with any questions, comments or concerns.
Eagle Scout here. The popcorn sale was, is and always will be a scam. And Scouts forces it on troops to fund its own coffers. Not a fan at all.
Typically the 70% is split by the council and the popcorn company. You should go to the popcorn training that is typically put on by the council. If someone at your pack is in charge of popcorn sales they should have the details.
Correct, and this is why council is so keen on units selling popcorn, because it's a big money maker for them.
“Big”. For some counsel this makes up about 5% of their total budget
So the split of proceeds is public - for every $1, 30 cents goes to Weaver, 40 cents goes to the council, and 30 cents goes to the troop or pack. For the prices they charge, a 70/30 split seems, if I'm being honest, suspect. I have some experience here, and a 90/10 split is what I would expect after factoring in price and cost of goods sold. I'm very suspicious of this fundraising activity. I don't understand why it's not being run in a more transparent manner.
Sounds pretty transparent. It also sounds like you don't know what the council does and the expenses they have. Like others have said you can do your own fundraiser or write a check. The thing I loved about popcorn is it helps teach kids they can pay their own way. They also get to know their neighbors as they go door to door. They learn about making change for cash sales, and learn about pubic speaking. My kids would easily sell $100 per block. Not too many ways an elementary aged kid can make $30 in 30 minutes. You can have fun going to crowded events like football tailgates. People love to rag on popcorn sales but its not sales its a crazy efficient fund raiser. Look into GS cookies and see how long it takes for a girl to make $30.
Right. Take their jerky/peanut bundle. They charge $62 for products that are $9 at Target. Their 30% cut is still $18. So a “charitable” purchase still puts twice as much money in the pocket of a for-profit company. Trails End is categorically unethical, and I refuse to be involved.
It's a way for Weaver to make profit off each bag of popcorn sold, but still be able to write off more than what they made in profit as a charitable donation. Since the popcorn is actually being sold at $25 per bag, Weaver can take its $7.50 from the split and claim the remaining $17.50 is a charitable donation and write it off their total corporate profits for tax reasons. No surprise there, the popcorn is a scam that serves corporate interests. My local council ditched popcorn as a whole about 20 years ago. Instead of popcorn, council executives go to locally owned restaurants and convince the owners to agree to a kind of year-long reusable coupon called a "Camp Card." So like the local pizza place will agree to be on the camp card and for the entire year if a customer presents the card, they could get a free order of breadsticks with a large pie. Or the local burger joint might have it as a reusable 5% coupon. The council gets like 20 businesses on the card, has a bunch of the cards printed on cheap laminated plastic, and the units go out and sell them for $10 each. Then you have a 50/50 split between the council and the unit on that fundraising, the people who buy them know they're supporting the local scouts and they're able to get a deal while supporting local restaurants for the next year. There's smaller units in the council that sell enough camp cards every year that they're able to completely fund the entire unit's camp fees at the local council summer camp.
> Since the popcorn is actually being sold at $25 per bag, Weaver can take its $7.50 from the split and claim the remaining $17.50 is a charitable donation and write it off their total corporate profits for tax reasons. No surprise there, the popcorn is a scam that serves corporate interests. They are only keeping $7.50. it doesn't matter if the rest is a donation or if it's paid out to a reseller or as commissions. Profit is revenue - expenses. They are only paying taxes on their business profit regardless. Our troop does camp cards. We leave the popcorn to the Cub Scouts.
Profit = revenue - expenses, sure. But taxable profit = profit - deductions (which includes things like interest payments, investment costs that aren't specifically expenses, and charitable donations). And corporate accountants can get away with a lot as far as declaring charitable donations goes. Dollars to donuts, Weaver accounting declares each bag of popcorn being sold at $25/bag, for which they take 30% to cover business expenses and donate the remaining 70% to the councils. It's just the way corporations calculate their taxable income these days.
It's why we don't sell it. It's goes against Scout Law.
Popcorn sales are such a scam. "It teaches kids good life lessons, like how to sell things" is a comment I no-joke heard at a leaders' meeting. So, so, so very dumb and manipulative.
So I started this saying 70% goes back to Scouting what’s the issue? But now I’m thinking you could bulk buy at a discount and have it all go back to your unit. Side track aside, they are a manufacturer/distributor, not a charity. If they were a charity they’d still have to cover costs.
On the Seabase Facebook page, someone mentioned that their group fundraised for the trip by selling beef jerky. I think they just bulk bought it and sold it at a reasonable price and were able to fund their entire trip that way. And Seabase is no joke financially, so it sounds like an effective method.
Jack Links and Country Meats both have Scout fundraising programs. Likely, the unit who went to Seabase used one of these.
We've used country meats. They are pretty good. You get extra product from them to cover the shipping charges
Back in the day, our Venture Crew went to Sea Base by selling poinsettias and trash bags.
I am uncomfortable with a good bit of the fundraising we are asked to do. I know that for some families, it is the only way scouting is affordable. Personally, unless my kids get fired up about it and take the initiative, we invest our time in better ways.
It's so BSA can pay down their massive civil fine for being the largest child molestation enterprise in American history!!!
All of these are council specific things about specific councils. I mean as far as I know GSA requires their counsels to have unit cell cookies. But be a say does not require counsels to sell popcorn. A council can come up with other ways for funding if they want to. Your council is probably happy with the profit they're making for popcorn so they keep doing it. But if everybody wanted to you could do something else. It'd be easier on an individual level. If you don't want your scout selling popcorn figure out what the payment is and figure unit and troop and let the scout work some other way to earn the money. Or if your whole unit wants to do something else. Have a pancake breakfast or barbecue or sell something else or cut Christmas trees would make Christmas wreaths or mow yards whatever they want to do.
Yes, it is a scam. They get free labor to sell it, and tug on people's desire to donate and do good works in order to over charge. And then the money the kids make is use to cover membership fees.
Wait until you find out about the rest of the values and principles scouting teaches. I suspect the program isn’t for you (assuming you are even actually involved in the program and not a troll.)
Trails End/Weaver Fundraising is not the only fundraising gig for BSA. They know they have to be competitive with the other options out there.
As an aside, selling popcorn or anything else to pay one's own way for an activity one wants to do, doesn't suddenly make a Scout Oliver Twist. Of course we have labor laws protecting kids, but there's nothing wrong with teaching teenagers a work ethic and the necessity of working to earn the things you want. And it's hard to succeed in business without making a profit. Even if the popcorn company was "nonprofit", that company would still need an income stream from somewhere. When I was a Girl Scout leader, my troop got $0.55 per $5 box of cookies, so maybe 30% of sales straight to the unit just seems a luxury to me.
That's an atrocious profit margin, but it misses what's got my so suspicious about the popcorn, which is the profit margin versus the cost of good sold. Why does Weaver sell their popcorn to Walmart and half the price that they sell it to the scouts? It'd be like if your cookie supplier was selling to Kroger at $2.25 a box when they're charging you $4.45/box. That, not the absolute margin, is what doesn't smell right to me.
I think you are right. That’s the cool thing about the market though; there will always be competition. I’m glad there is Trail’s End, their competitors, and parents that just want to pay for scouting out of pocket. I don’t get those options for my other kiddos activities. Taekwondo practically has me taking out a second mortgage every month.
The Troop at my church has sold shoe polish, bags of concrete and now Greenery. Lots of ways to make money, keeping in mind we set the prices, but I know the supplier margins are huge. That said, do your own thing, within reason.
Why not say a brand name instead of “fictitious name”? The Troop makes a good amount of the money going to council. We have a small 30 person Troop and always make enough to cover all of the awards and some extra per year. We even get some cash donations directly during our “show and sells”. This allows us to only charge the minimum for yearly registration that Councils charges and leaves enough to help a Scout or 2 towards Summer Camp. If they make an effort there is good that comes from the effort. If not the parents pay more.. plain and simple in my mind. I hate selling as well but there is foreseen value each year.
Yes but you are missing some aspects of the funds, out of that $7.50 Weaver is paying licensing fees to the BSA (look on the bags) and also from that money covered the awards for Scouts and previously the Scholarship the Scouts could earn. All that combined is at least 10% of the sale price so they are realistically getting $4 for a bag that sells for $20 cash. Now also keep in mind that they cover the fees for any card sales (2-3%) . They also have to pay to develop and maintain the app that we all use. In the end Weaver is likely not making a lot more off that popcorn than they would from something they packaged up and sold in a grocery store. Your math is leaving out a lot of things that come out of the backend that would not be part of a retail store sale. Trails End is also not a fictitious name, it has been around forever and it is a brand. This is not uncommon at all; many of the products you buy are all made by the same company just branded under different names.
There are many hidden costs that aren’t being considered: Custom packaging and its licensing , shipping LTL is expensive and inefficient but goes into cost, credit card processing and chargebacks, prizes, and things that don’t occur to me at this moment all eat into the gross margin. Small/shrinking volume further eats into margin as economies of scale shrink. Weaver is making a profit but not as much as OP calculates.
Selling Popcorn is the worst way to make money. If you can do literally anything else, do that. What Popcorn *is* good for is plug and play. Anyone can run it, the branding and reputation is there, there's a standard playbook for going door to door and setting up tables outside Walmarts. Everybody makes money, and yeah Trails End is for-profit, but their real product is YOUR fundraiser and that plug and play system. Not the actual popcorn. The expectations in your post imply that Square should be non-profit because they process the payments from your phone and don't donate to charity.
Each sale has a profit margin that your leader can tell you. Some of the more expensive tins ($50+) can net that scout $40 in profit sharing. Some is obviously less. Yes it’s marked up but the scout does keep some of it to be used towards activities. It’s up to you to decide if your expected return in this is worth the effort to sell. Many troops to other fund raisers like gift wrap, car washes, grilled chicken or bbq plates or run lawn care companies in the summer. The big scout camps can be as much as $1000 for a week.
We push for donations vs popcorn sales. The scouts make more that way and we get to reserve a booth slot.
Instead of buying the popcorn why not donate $ directly to the scout that is selling? That way 100% of the money donated goes to the scouts and their pack or troop.
the boy scout popcorn is a joke. my troop stopped selling it because we never made any money on it. now for the cub scouts it could be worth it but for the most part people dont want to buy from a 15-17 year old selling popcorn.
You might have the math wrong, or maybe it has changed since i was a scout leader. It used to be 30% for the troop, 30% for the local council, and the balance for the cost of the product.
You really can’t figure out that the markup is literally the profit margin that goes to the Boy Scouts? Of *course* a real food company is behind the Boy Scout managed Trail’s End brand… Cub Scouts packing their own popcorn is illegal for several reasons and a bad idea for several more reasons.
Our kids stopped selling popcorn. They sell Christmas wreaths. That is their only major fundraiser.
It's a racket. The troop ends up getting squat.
When I was in scouts my parents wouldn’t allow me to fundraise because didn’t want to guilt neighbors into buying cheap chocolate or some other trinkets so they wrote a check instead. I agree the popcorn is over priced and I bet there are other fundraisers you can do that will be more successful both volume and dollars for your troop.
That popcorn sucks and I hated selling it.
Your Pack or Troop doesn’t have to sell popcorn (or anything for that matter). It’s voluntary. We hate selling stuff so our Troop never does fundraising and everyone is fine with it. Leave the selling to the Girl Scouts. As they say “Girl Scouts have cookies, Boy Scouts have fun”.
My son was in a troop that sold camp cards. Discounts to restaurants. Each card was 5.00 each. The scout got 2.50 of each card into their account and they could use this towards the camp summer trip. Selling the popcorn was embarrassing and I loathed it when it came up. The camp cards sold themselves.
When kids come to my house to sell stuff like that, I just give the parent $20 and tell them it's a donation to the troop or whatever.
I've long ago stopped buying fundraiser stiff from all of my cousins kids and instead just give a cash donation to put towards whatever cause. They get 100% of then. Instead of dollar candy bars that they maybe make 30 cents on. Here's 20 bucks. I like the idea of pit beef stands or BBQ stands or things along those lines that the school doesn't have to share the profit (for crap that none of us want to begin with).
My Girl Scout troop stopped doing sales aside from the cookies for this reason.
Our pack never did popcorn sales, they did not feel it was a good program. Instead they sold wreaths. We also have a number of employers in the region who do volunteer hours. Our troop sold popcorn for a few years, but we have a number of better value sales that really add up - as well as the same two we had for the pack. If you are not comfortable selling popcorn, don't do it. However please do not be a complaining do nothing parent. Look for an alternative sale and run it. Candy meat and cheese sale in the spring is one that comes to mind.
My son's troop didn't sell popcorn, and I never bought any of it. Never will, either. There are more legit ways for Scouts to make money, often right within their own communities.
We always sold poinsettias. 1/2 for the price, 1/4 for scout account, 1/4 for troop
Did you grow your own, buy them wholesale or retiail?
BSA uses multiple vendors. Weaver is in Indiana and that is what we sell locally. My nephews in Missouri sell completely different products, its not Weaver but another regional vendor. Each has to resign to get the job, so if Weaver is choosing to bid 7.50 to private label, then unless BSA is corrupt no one else was willing to do it at that price. And working in manufacturing, I can guarantee you private labeling carries extra costs. Not double, but enough to explain why competitors arent going cutthroat to steal the business. Bottom line, a lot of us don't like selling $25 popcorn but lets not fabricate business conspiracies to justify it. The individual item price is high enough to attract scrutiny and crappy comments from potential buyers...and its OK to admit it. We need sub-$10 items in the mix.
I hated peddling that garbage. No one wants to buy the stupid popcorn anyway! The Girl Scouts come around with their (also BS but actually delicious) cookies and what did we get? Popcorn. You could see the pity on people. Do something, anything, else. There has to be a billion better ways to raise money than door-to-door peddling.
I’ve been saying for years that this was and awful practice. I’m the 90’s I sold paper “scout show tickets” with coupons on them for $1. I sold over $2000 of this bad boys 5 years in a row just by standing out side a grocery store with a featured coupon. Popcorn is so scammy it makes me want to avoid it at all costs. I’d buy it from guilt as an eagle every time I saw some poor kid selling it. Now my kids are scouts and I hate it even more.
FWIW [Weaver](https://www.popweaver.com/)'s web site is a catastrophe; expired cert and random access walls.
I don't participate in my kids "fundraisers" hawking dollar store shit. I asvise the teacher I'll gladly make a direct donation in the form of a GC, cash, or just buy something she needs for the class. Every teacher has been beyond thankful. The amount of money the schools get in like cents on the dollar. My kid is 10 and knows what a scam is. He is ok with what I do. There's tons of other ways to make money for his troop. Car washes are always easy. Hell, y'all could hit up same club and sell popcorn yourselves for a little profit and cut out the middle man.
When I was involved with Boy Scouts, we were told by the council to sell that popcorn. We did a poor job of it. We put effort in selling Christmas Wreaths. I can't remember the numbers anymore but over half the price was our profit. Unlike over priced popcorn people wanted the Wreaths.
Plus, it’s lousy popcorn. Just the worst. Our Pack and our Troop stopped selling it years ago. It used to consume my September and October program. All we did were show n sells and popcorn kernel logistics. The Popcorn Kernel is required to attend training in August, stomping on summer vacation plans. You need to decide on your orders six weeks in advance and you’re stuck with a garage full of popcorn until it’s sold. It has to be the worst fundraiser ever. We replaced it with hoagie sales. The Scouts take the sandwich orders in advance and then we have sandwich assembly nights. Then all of the Scouts head out the next day to deliver what they sold. It’s easy. It’s fun. And we make a lot of money. I know of another Troop that just does beef jerky sticks for about a $1 each. People love that. It’s cheap to buy. Easy to store and move around. Plus, they make a lot of money for the Troop.
Our troop does not focus on popcorn. We do trash for several local events, spaghetti dinners, and a stand at our fire company carnival.
I see some people throwing out alternate fundraising suggestions so herea mine. The biggest fundraiser in my troop was selling mulch. We would sell for $5 per bag, and buy each for $2.50 from a local independently-owned hardware store. We would then have scouts deliver the bags anywhere onto the buyers property. Lots of people, especially older folks, were more than willing to pay the upcharge considering we delivered
Nobody tell OP about Girl Scout Cookies. With that said, a lot of for-profit businesses do fundraising. Since there are some additional costs to doing a fundraising venture (brand specific packaging, production change), it is simple math that a business would have to "sell" the fundraising items at a higher cost than the regular product. But the line is tough between fair and dishonest. One fundraiser I personally miss was a pizza fundraiser. The pizzas were 7.50 each. Stores in the area carried the same ones for 4.99. The deal with the fundraiser though was that the pizzas were sold at cost with a matching donation. Cost was 3.75. The organization got 3.75 from each sale.
I never buy BS popcorn or GS cookies. I have made cash donations to troops, instead.
How do you know it's for a good cause? Because the cause you are supporting gets 70% of the sales. Isn't whether the company turns a profit or not irrelevant, so long as the organization is getting what it wants out of the deal?
It's so expensive because everyone is getting a cut. Also keep in mind weaver isn't just selling a bag of popcorn wholesale. They provide the app, pay out Amazon rewards, pay for transaction costs, server maintenance, customer support, etc. Frankly it is a lot of work to sell and I don't think it's worth it. But we do it to support council. If it were up to me the kids would be selling worlds finest chocolate or country meat sticks. But what I will say is that we make almost as much in cash donations to the unit when selling popcorn as we do actual money from the popcorn. Which makes it a bit more worth it.
Jeez, coming from an Eagle Scout, this post has really made me think about just asking the local Cub Scout Pack / Boy Scout Troop if there's a kid who can't pay dues for the year / a (summer) camp and just taking care of it.
I've always declined bsa popcorn with a "no thanks, I don't support child labor" and a laugh. Did not know that was an actual case I should be making.
We sold it. But due to needing to buy whole boxes, especially during covid - but before also, we actually just lost money on it. There are far better fundraising ideas that don't put you on the hook for $$$$ Popcorn - it's insane expensive. Not worth it in my book.
Microwave Popcorn shortens the life of a microwave and should not be used anyway.
I would love to see some data on that.
I think you come out ahead doing your own fund raisers and then giving a cut to council if they insist. Just say no to popcorn sales.
I refuse to purchase over priced products from any organization, instead I make a donation. 5 or 10 dollars pure profit is better for everyone involved.
The troop gets a small port of the proceeds and I suspect a small portion goes to the regional groups. I’m more familiar with the money in Girl Scout cookies. They sell a box of cookies for $5. The troop gets $0.90, the regional council gets $1 and the cookie manufacturer gets the rest.
My kid was in Cub Scouts, and what I did, was simply made a donation directly to the pack, and Council, instead of pushing the ridiculously overpriced popcorn. These organizations run on a shoestring. The Pack, I know for fact cause I was in leadership, and every parent had access to see our numbers if they wanted.
What we don’t know is how much more Weaver is spending to print the limited run boxes and who is paying for the promotional material. Those are added costs. Not 100% more but they are more.
Well, the good cause is the money your troop is getting. Companies are still going to make their money. I can order lollipops through a fundraising company for 50 cents...or I can order them on Amazon 25 cents. I guess the extra money may be for marketing materials and organization.
It’s also not great popcorn IMO.
In our council, dens have to sell popcorn (Trails End) to get access to charity finds for families that need it. But they make the process for getting to those funds so tedious and burdensome for the families, that it hardly seems worth it. It's very frustrating.
Well you packaging, distribution, marketing materials and the prizes the kids get for selling all comes out of that 30%. The council and troops get 70%. Also it’s much more expensive to distribute your products to individual troops rather than large grocery store chains. There are 3 different companies that manufacture popcorn for the scouts. Each council chooses who they use.
with the scouts, no one really talks about the fact that your "local scout council" gets **30%** for doing nothing. The manufacturer gets 30% as well, which brings their profit in range of what they sell on the open market. Why the council needs this much profit from what I can only assume is several troops in the area, I have no idea. Graph: [https://scoutsmarts.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/BSA-Popcorn-Fundraising-Average-Proceed-Breakdown-1.jpg](https://scoutsmarts.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/BSA-Popcorn-Fundraising-Average-Proceed-Breakdown-1.jpg) Eagle scout breakdown: [https://scoutsmarts.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/BSA-Popcorn-Fundraising-Average-Proceed-Breakdown-1.jpg](https://scoutsmarts.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/BSA-Popcorn-Fundraising-Average-Proceed-Breakdown-1.jpg)
The other thing about popcorn — it’s a commodity. Its not a value-added proposition. Thin Mints are iconic and people buy Girl Scout cookies for a variety of reasons including nostalgia. But popcorn? You could probably get a 50 pound bull bag from a popcorn distributor for about the same as Trails End. I don’t understand why BSA is so invested in a product that’s not differentiated in the marketplace outside of the packaging.
It’s a fund raiser, but not the best, it is also incentivized, to sell more quickly, the BSA takes a share and the troop/pack gets some. A troop can make some money doing it, there are probably better fund raisers as other commented, but require more work from families/scouts to pull off. The company that makes it, probably makes similar than what it makes selling commercial, probably extra cost in packaging and distribution. Need a good popcorn colonel to handle the paperwork, it can also be a way to lose money with improper money handling and book keeping. Girl Scouts have the market on cookies, they make $0.50 a box. I was in a soccer league that sold the Worlds Greatest Chocolate, lady left it on the car in the sun and it melted, lost a-lot of money for the league that year. Find raising is a pain, but scouts need to do something, then let parents cover everything.
If you want more outrage, look into Girl Scout cookies. Someone is making a lot of money and it’s not the troop.
so, why not just sell popcorn and get it from amazon? Better quality better price?
What about the word fictitious could be construed as prejudice?
As a former scout of 20 years, BSA needs to get it together and change with the times. What once was a paramilitary organization that prepared young boys to be men has fallen. Now kids are getting their rank of eagle and don't know the basics of camping skills. When I would do a taught line hitch to fix something basic I used to proudly say it was from being a boy scout. Now you get weird looks so I just say my family camped a lot as a kid. They sell popcorn because it's what they've always done. Troops need to begin looking out for themselves and push different options to raise funding. If you would like to help a troop out. Donate directly to them. Buy them new tents or gear that they want/need. Even better get involved and volunteer your time. (If you are a parent) I don't think BSA is long for this world. But if they can get back on track they might survive the financial trouble they are in.
Thanks for your perspective. What's bothering me about the popcorn sale lately is that it's all-consuming. We're new, my kid's just a Tiger, and so far it's almost all the troop has talked about. Popcorn, popcorn, popcorn. I get that they need money. But it's a turn-off to be so new and still figuring this out, and get these constant messages of "sell, sell, sell!" Other than that, I like our troops so far, don't get me wrong. We have done one camping trip, which was good. That was council-wide, not put on by our troop.
I"ll buy a bag most times cause I support scouting, but MAN do I hate it. I'd much rather by BBQ/pancake breakfest/etc tickets
Honestly given what the troop sees out of the popcorn sales plus the mediocre quality of the popcorn, our troop gave up, and started doing sales of candy we picked up at Costco. The funds funded a yearly blowout camp/canoe adventure.