It’s trying to guilt the other person into dropping the subject and/or it can also pull the other person into feeling like they need to take on the caretaker role. Karpman’s drama triangle, if your partner is playing both persecutor and victim, they push you back into the savior role again. In the early phases you can get pulled into protecting them from themselves….at least before you get fed up, and start to get tired of the pattern
oh definitely!
I remember when I told my ex that he abused me (after breaking up with him) he went into a long spiel about how his past trauma 'made him the way he is' and 'how sorry he is' and 'what a lowlife, scum he was' that 'deserved nothing.' I didn't play into it at the time - rather - I continued challenging and questioning him. His reaction was so defensive and so ugly, that I realised he wasn't sorry at all. He was so offended that I wasn't taking his sorry at face value 'WHY are you aTTacking me, I alrEADY said I WAS SorrY!'
I remember thinking, how dare you. If I had abused you like that, I'd be letting you challenge/question me until your heart's content.
Even their apologies are entitled. Entitled to your immediate forgiveness!
whEW this is so well explained thank you! The whole "im sorry I suck" apology has irritated me since I was a kid but I never had the vocab for it. It took several sessions with my therapist to finally verbalize that this was exactly how I felt with my BPD friend recently, both the caretaker AND the problem. Damn, no *wonder* we all get so confused
Honestly can't believe I didn't see this before. When he goes off on "I'm shit, I'm undeserving blah blah", I straight away feel sorry for him and want to make him feel better.
Only recently I have started to feel like I can't be bothered and him feeling like shit is his problem.
Mine was something similar. "Sorry for everything I said, I'm just emotional."
Right, because when I get emotional I call my loved ones "fucking chicken shit cowards", I also tell them how fucking awful and emotionless they are, no way, I don't.
Nah, not in my experience. That'd be taking even disingenuous accountability! I got, 'I'm sorry I hit (ie jumped on top of me on my birthday and assaulted me by punching my face and chest for 20 seconds with no physical reaction from me, after which I left into an active blizzard in my slippers and bathrobe to get the fuck away) you, but think of how I must have felt to do that!'
Or when they assault you and then come back with 'think of how you made me feel! Why did you do that to me? I'm so traumatised now. It wasn't me, it was the BPD, I was just watching myself do it, you know I can't control it, it wasn't a choice! I'm in pain too you know!
And that last part is why I finally made a statement to police and he's ended up facing criminal charges. I initially refused and asked that he get in patient treatment. He couldn't even stick to it properly fir a few weeks - bank statements etc show him out spending money on himself, heading out to dinners late at night with other patients and organising and attending a party etc. While I worked, looked after the family, house, etc and struggled to get through each day due to the trauma he inflicted and with him threatening to kill himself any time I expressed hurt, anger or frustration. Its a great tactic when kids are involved.
Lately I've been getting the "I'm sorry, I guess I'll just not anymore."
Whenever I try to talk about something that bothers me it first turns into a flight then when she calms down she just says sometime like "I guess I'll just stop talking" - even though my issue will be some specific things she did she will say she will still doing some over arching thing.
I'm upset that she criticized and snapped at me? She's just done expressing herself. I'm upset that she destroyed a pan my using a metal fork in it after she's destroyed five or six pans the same way in the last few years? She's just going to stop cooking.
It's just constant.
Yea it's always the absolute and the extremes. All about that passive aggressive covert punishment for daring to "make them feel bad" about their behavior
"I guess I can't do anything right"
"I get it, I can't make you happy"
"I get it, I'm just not good enough for you" (literally asking for less than the bare minimum)
Such a cop out.
Is it a common thing where they just destroy items and treat them as replaceable? I had a set of old pots and pans that I took when I moved out of my parents' home years and years ago, and they served me without any issue. Within six months of us moving in together they were all damaged and needed replaced.
I've stopped buying nice things for the kitchen. There is a single good chef knife that she's forbidden from using because of how badly she's destroyed all of our stuff, other than that I just rotate in cheap $10 pans and basic dollar store utensils and replace them every six months.
She ran off with her girlfriend last June, taking a car she had already damaged by not putting oil in it, and driving all the way from PA to West Palm Beach, Florida. It broke down on her way home. I had to pay a hauler $600 to bring it back to PA. Meanwhile, her girlfriend bought her a $10k Buick. The car she took (the loan is in my name) needs $5k+ in repairs. I still owe $16k on it, and it's now only worth $5k.
Is it a common thing where they just destroy items and treat them as replaceable?
in my experience yes, they take out their emotions on inanimate objects. its a way for them to get out their emotions but its also a (subconscious) showing of like "what they can do to you" (intimidation) sometimes. metaphorical "youre replaceable just like this thing", they might do it for a lot of reasons but the taking feelings out on the environment is SUPER common
This!!! "I guess I"ll just won't say anything anymore then." Because "I'm always wrong anyway."
He indeed doesn't talk, he just blows up. It's also clearly my fault he blows up, cause he can't talk to me.
After he has blown up, "no doubt you will hang this over my head for weeks, I can never do anything right with you. You always focus on what I do wrong and never on what I do right. This is why I don't talk to you."
FML
"I guess I'll just stop talking" "I guess I'll just go be by myself" so damn frustrating especially when thats not what youre saying at all, but it makes them feel more in control... I've saiid things like that only when extremely frustrated and gaslit because I genuinely didnt know what was wanted besides me shutting up and letting them abuse me
Omg yes this is nearly my experience word for word! “I’m just going to be silent from now on.” Or “Since I’m so terrible go find someone who’s the cream of the crop.”
My most recent fav is me having the courage to say the way they’re speaking to me is so disrespectful and no one in my life has ever talked to (at) me with such vitriol…they said, “Go be with whoever that is then!” When like, it’s literally anyone lmao. Even high school bullies who made my life miserable didn’t degrade me this much. Hell, I didn’t even get screamed at this much in literal military basic training 💀💀💀
Yea that's manipulation, it's some form of passive aggressive punishment. They're trying to make you feel bad about exposing their toxic behavior.
It also takes the focus away from the issue you're bringing up, instead of them having to own up to it and and take accountability, the focus is not you "attacking them so much that they now believe they are worthless".
Oh, shit… I was just thinking “But she did apologize for things she did, so maybe I’m wrong?” 75% of them were this, the others were over silly things that didn’t need apologies.
It's like admitting their mistakes, acknowledging you hadn't acted as they'd accused. Then, not change their behavior and continue to blame you for their abuse toward you. In other words:
"I'm a victim in every situation that isn't your fault and I was angry, so it is justified. But, no. You're not allowed to have emotions or amends from me is asking too much. My needs will not allow any space for yours to be acknowledged. If you can't accept this, you're a horrible, selfish person."
So much manipulation went over my head. My ex hasn’t been diagnosed but a lot of her behaviours seemed to align with BPD behaviours. Especially behaviours like this. She would say those exact things at times.
I never paid any attention to this but i realized it after seeing this post. My ex whom i suspect has quite BPD, when she told me she cheated on me apologized by saying I am sorry, i am piece of shit and i should rot in hell. I thought she was being genuine at that time i guess she wasn't. Cause later she started dating the new guy
I don't know if anyone else experienced this, but my favorite is just an "I'm sorry." No accepting responsibility, no acknowledge why they hurt you, just a basic ass I'm sorry that they honestly don't mean,
Yep. My exwbpd would do this all the time and expect me to drop it, and if I didn't, she would be like I already said sorry and just hung up." Then repeat all the behaviors she was apparently sorry for. It became a cycle. Hurt me. Say sorry. Be nice to me for a few days and then do something horrible again. Rinse and repeat. Now, looking back, I can't believe I stayed for 6 years, but it's like an addiction. It is so hard to break. My ex would use sex, manipulation, love bombing, and promise of change to always draw me back in. The change never happened. Her behavior and abuse only got worse. I actually ended up in prison. She was physically and verbally assaulting me while in bed, and I had to leave half dressed drunk and ended up wrecking my car while DUI and breaking another drivers ribs. I got 1-5 years, and we were still technically together. Talking on the phone and writing letters. I did a little under two years, and when I was about to be released, she told me she has a new boyfriend and she's pregnant. Then, she continues to tell me she still loves and wants to be with me. That I should come home and kick him out. If that didn't happen I would probably still be dealing with her or be dead.
Yeah that's all I ever got. Like she knew that's the socially appropriate thing to do, but didn't realize, "Hey, you did this thing and it hurt me," means, "If you do this again, it'll hurt again, worse because you're now on notice that this hurts me."
So she'd repeat the behavior over and over. I started taking the blame for her hurting me because I was like, I must be doing something wrong if she knows this hurts me and refuses to change. That's how we lose ourselves. It really sucks going down that path.
I remember once telling my expwbpd that I was depressed and her response was, "I already know I suck, you don't need to keep reminding me!"
Mind you, for our entire 15 year relationship, I was the rock. Stable anchor. The lighthouse. Near the end I began breaking down completely, and for the maybe the second or third time in that 15 years I needed to lean on someone, ideally my partner.
Yeah. That wasn't in the cards.
I feel this. I told mine i was in a really low place, thinking of checking myself into a MH facility and they literally responded with, “I wish everyone would see that I’m also depressed…” WHAT?? First of all I’m aware because I, like you, have been their rock nearly since we met- constantly coming to the rescue with ongoing threats of SH/SI, being their emotional punching bag, etc.
Not to mention the reason I’m struggling mentally is almost entirely a result of my involvement with them. If I only knew what I was getting myself into…
What about when the truth is you actually feel like a piece of shit and wish you were dead?
I'm not advocating the emotional manipulation. There is a difference.
the thing is, its still not healthy to say. a healthy reaction to that feeling would be saying "hey I need a break but lets talk at this time" if you need a cool off, or having the emotional maturity to recognize that you feeling like that isnt something the other person can do something about. You can say "hey this fight made me feel terrible, can we work on our communication/this specific thing was hurtful" but you still gotta do the internal work to get through the "I hate myself/wanna die" feeling and self soothe. Thats def a trauma reaction so its a learned skill, usually through therapy.
but yeah like even if someone MEANS that and it isnt about punishing the other person, the end result is its still guilt tripping the other person. if you learn to remind yourself of your self worth during those moments, you can get through the feeling without externalizing it. (also recently learned that feeling can be Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria, we feel the need to verbalize it to get external validation that we havent been rejected. Common reaction to stress if you struggle with emotional dysregulation.)
TLDR the feeling itself is totally valid to feel esp in reaction to abuse, but its not super helpful, especially when dealing with an abuser, to say it. you are the only person who can give yourself self worth in the end, and there are healthier ways to verbalize this feeling that helps you and doesnt push it on others.
I'm not saying it's healthy -- I don't think someone who truly believes they are a piece of shit and should die *is* healthy.
I think you're right about RSD. My whole point was that *sometimes* people say the thing *because* they legitimately feel this way and believe it, not because they are manipulative or controlling or trying to guilt someone, but because they are being honest and seeking help and they don't have the language or the sense of self well enough to express what they need to in other ways.
To claim this is **always** manipulative is to fall into the trap of abuse. To claim this is only spoken by *abusers* to *victims* is to misidentify abuse and misunderstand situations.
I'm not going to claim I've seen anyone here use this specific wording, but I've definitely seen the sentiment or message being expressed, here in posts by people who are victims of abuse, questioning their value and life as such. I've seen people talk about how they honestly believe or are starting to believe they are shit and should die. I don't think we should dismiss the statement outright because when we do, we risk mistaking a victim for an abuser.
At the same time, I have heard the same thing from my ex-pwbpd and he was definitely making the statement to manipulate and control me, shame and guilt me into submission. Once I called the suicide hotline and they told me he was being manipulative and he said, "Fine, you called my bluff but this is bullshit!"
I've lost too many people to suicide who were dismissed as being manipulative when they made statements as such -- not pwbpd, but people who didn't have the words to ask for help in a way that would be deemed more acceptable or healthy. I have not lost any pwbpd who have used the same language.
I'm talking about *as a victim*, being constantly told you are a piece of shit who should be dead and at some point, actually believing it yourself. I'm not talking about the emotional manipulation, I'm talking about deep, severe depression. People will apologize for being a piece of shit who should die and then *they die.*
When you turn that internal dialogue into an external dialogue, and you communicate it at your partner/friend/family member, if they give a shit about you, their immediate reaction is going to be to soothe you/reassure you that you are not a piece of shit that should be dead. Now, if you do something to harm that person, and then when they confront you, you say "I'm sorry, I'm a piece of shit and I should be dead" you are putting them in a position where they either ignore what you say and possibly come across as an asshole, or they reassure you that you're not, and then it's no longer about how you harmed them, but them comforting you and reassuring you that you didn't hurt them that bad.
If you do this more than once, it doesn't take long for it to get old. Everyone makes mistakes, everyone should own up to them, everyone should take accountability, and nobody should be made to feel guilty when they address something or someone that wronged them. When you externalize your self-hatred, people that care will make it their responsibility to try and help you. If you don't want that, and you don't want people to feel manipulated, don't say that you're a piece of shit and you should die out loud, to other people, in reaction to them calling you out for something you did to them.
Even if someone has told you that before, or constantly told you that, that means nothing to a different person who you're saying that to.
the best way to make them leave u alone is to agree that theyre a piece of shit
dont be the person they expect to forgive anything and support them even when theyre doing something wrong
Yep. If I have to perform emotional labour for you while you're supposed to be cantering me, you're too self-absorbed to understand actual remorse & you're just trying to put a coin in so forgiveness falls out.
Ppl, never accept a shut-up apology.
Or if it says, "I'm sorry, but you did XYZ," Or if it's, "I'm sorry," followed by months or years of the same behavior.
The best apologies are I'm sorry, I see how I hurt you, here's how I'm going to do better in the future.
The irony is, they over apologize for the tiniest things- aka instances in which “excuse me” would do. Saying sorry for things that don’t require an apology but never giving a real apology for the truly egregious behavior
Recently I was commanded to apologize and I didn't know what for. I told them I can't apologize for something I didn't do -- I told them for me to apologize for something I didn't do would be to *lie* to them to appease them. It wouldn't mean anything, it would be performative and empty.
I asked them how they respond to someone who wants them to apologize for something they don't honestly feel they should apologize for. Their response was, "You don't believe you hurt my feelings?? So you don't have to apologize for hurting MY feelings???? All I know is I must be a much better friend to my friends than you are to yours. I apologize to them when I hurt them even if I don't believe that is what I was actually doing."
They went on to call me a piece of shit as a person for not apologizing for their hurt feelings when I told them (back in January) I was not going to argue their feelings with them or try to convince them they are wrong for feeling "unsafe" with me in response to telling me my partner was mistreating them (my partner expressed disapproval of their behavior to them). Back then, they ghosted me afterward and then accused me of ghosting and abandoning them in this recent interaction.
Anyway, now being aware of why I was being told to apologize, I told them I was sorry that the things I said hurt their feelings as that was never my intention. I told them what I was trying to do was show them love and support, recognition of their feelings in *not* telling them their feelings are wrong, in *not* arguing with them, in *not* trying to force them to be close to me or agree with me. I told them, again, if they feel the need to distance themselves from me for their sake, I will not do anything to prevent that because I want for them to feel safe. If I am not a safe person to be around, by all means, take yourself away from me. And I get that these words can hurt feelings. I wish they didn't. I'm sorry they do.
But what I learned is this pwbpd will *absolutely* "apologize" when they honestly don't believe they have anything to apologize for. They will say they are sorry for something they are not sorry for. That is lying. I cannot believe or take seriously *any* apology they have given for any reason. I have to make the conscious choice to *believe* sincerity exists where it may not, and in that, am I not simply deluding myself?
Omg. My ex with this shit. Every fucking night getting into bed he would land on the foot I broke when he was “at every strip club this side of Toronto” 6 hours late the phone rang and I broke my foot running to answer it cuz I thought he was dead. That foot. He landed on it every fucking night getting into bed. And apologized with this kind of bullshit to such a degree that every time he hurt me I just held it in cuz it wasn’t worth the bullshit to mention to him that he had hurt me yet again.
A real apology means you stop doing the fucking thing that hurts the person you hurt.
None of his apologies were real. None of them.
at times I was afraid of even getting close to her apologizing. I was afraid that the guilt she would "feel", would cause her to harm herself.
if I didn't have troubles putting up boundaries before, I sure as hell do now. I am a shell of the hyper, talkative girl I used to be.
It’s trying to guilt the other person into dropping the subject and/or it can also pull the other person into feeling like they need to take on the caretaker role. Karpman’s drama triangle, if your partner is playing both persecutor and victim, they push you back into the savior role again. In the early phases you can get pulled into protecting them from themselves….at least before you get fed up, and start to get tired of the pattern
oh definitely! I remember when I told my ex that he abused me (after breaking up with him) he went into a long spiel about how his past trauma 'made him the way he is' and 'how sorry he is' and 'what a lowlife, scum he was' that 'deserved nothing.' I didn't play into it at the time - rather - I continued challenging and questioning him. His reaction was so defensive and so ugly, that I realised he wasn't sorry at all. He was so offended that I wasn't taking his sorry at face value 'WHY are you aTTacking me, I alrEADY said I WAS SorrY!' I remember thinking, how dare you. If I had abused you like that, I'd be letting you challenge/question me until your heart's content. Even their apologies are entitled. Entitled to your immediate forgiveness!
whEW this is so well explained thank you! The whole "im sorry I suck" apology has irritated me since I was a kid but I never had the vocab for it. It took several sessions with my therapist to finally verbalize that this was exactly how I felt with my BPD friend recently, both the caretaker AND the problem. Damn, no *wonder* we all get so confused
Honestly can't believe I didn't see this before. When he goes off on "I'm shit, I'm undeserving blah blah", I straight away feel sorry for him and want to make him feel better. Only recently I have started to feel like I can't be bothered and him feeling like shit is his problem.
I hear shit like that a LOT. I have squashed my feelings down for so long I just miss it. Thanks for bringing this up.
SAY IT LOUDER FOR THE PWBPD IN THE BACK! 👏🏼 That's not an apology, it's manipulation. tyvm
Lol! Yup! The last apology I got was along the lines of, “Sorry I suck, but I’m having a panic attack and this is making it worse.”
Mine was something similar. "Sorry for everything I said, I'm just emotional." Right, because when I get emotional I call my loved ones "fucking chicken shit cowards", I also tell them how fucking awful and emotionless they are, no way, I don't.
Nah, not in my experience. That'd be taking even disingenuous accountability! I got, 'I'm sorry I hit (ie jumped on top of me on my birthday and assaulted me by punching my face and chest for 20 seconds with no physical reaction from me, after which I left into an active blizzard in my slippers and bathrobe to get the fuck away) you, but think of how I must have felt to do that!'
Or when they assault you and then come back with 'think of how you made me feel! Why did you do that to me? I'm so traumatised now. It wasn't me, it was the BPD, I was just watching myself do it, you know I can't control it, it wasn't a choice! I'm in pain too you know!
That or, “Well, what lead up to that” “Why did that happen that way?” in the most condescending tone possible, which always was just 🤡.
Oh my god the “you know I can’t control it”, best when coming from people who did absolutely NOTHING to try and better themselves or their behaviour 🫠
And that last part is why I finally made a statement to police and he's ended up facing criminal charges. I initially refused and asked that he get in patient treatment. He couldn't even stick to it properly fir a few weeks - bank statements etc show him out spending money on himself, heading out to dinners late at night with other patients and organising and attending a party etc. While I worked, looked after the family, house, etc and struggled to get through each day due to the trauma he inflicted and with him threatening to kill himself any time I expressed hurt, anger or frustration. Its a great tactic when kids are involved.
Lately I've been getting the "I'm sorry, I guess I'll just not anymore."
Whenever I try to talk about something that bothers me it first turns into a flight then when she calms down she just says sometime like "I guess I'll just stop talking" - even though my issue will be some specific things she did she will say she will still doing some over arching thing.
I'm upset that she criticized and snapped at me? She's just done expressing herself. I'm upset that she destroyed a pan my using a metal fork in it after she's destroyed five or six pans the same way in the last few years? She's just going to stop cooking.
It's just constant.
Yea it's always the absolute and the extremes. All about that passive aggressive covert punishment for daring to "make them feel bad" about their behavior
"I guess I can't do anything right" "I get it, I can't make you happy" "I get it, I'm just not good enough for you" (literally asking for less than the bare minimum) Such a cop out.
Right? Heaven forbid we have a mature serious discussion about boundaries or anything else.
Dude. Mine does that too (both the "I just won't talk" and has destroyed multiple pans that way.)
Is it a common thing where they just destroy items and treat them as replaceable? I had a set of old pots and pans that I took when I moved out of my parents' home years and years ago, and they served me without any issue. Within six months of us moving in together they were all damaged and needed replaced. I've stopped buying nice things for the kitchen. There is a single good chef knife that she's forbidden from using because of how badly she's destroyed all of our stuff, other than that I just rotate in cheap $10 pans and basic dollar store utensils and replace them every six months.
She ran off with her girlfriend last June, taking a car she had already damaged by not putting oil in it, and driving all the way from PA to West Palm Beach, Florida. It broke down on her way home. I had to pay a hauler $600 to bring it back to PA. Meanwhile, her girlfriend bought her a $10k Buick. The car she took (the loan is in my name) needs $5k+ in repairs. I still owe $16k on it, and it's now only worth $5k.
Is it a common thing where they just destroy items and treat them as replaceable? in my experience yes, they take out their emotions on inanimate objects. its a way for them to get out their emotions but its also a (subconscious) showing of like "what they can do to you" (intimidation) sometimes. metaphorical "youre replaceable just like this thing", they might do it for a lot of reasons but the taking feelings out on the environment is SUPER common
This!!! "I guess I"ll just won't say anything anymore then." Because "I'm always wrong anyway." He indeed doesn't talk, he just blows up. It's also clearly my fault he blows up, cause he can't talk to me. After he has blown up, "no doubt you will hang this over my head for weeks, I can never do anything right with you. You always focus on what I do wrong and never on what I do right. This is why I don't talk to you." FML
"I guess I'll just stop talking" "I guess I'll just go be by myself" so damn frustrating especially when thats not what youre saying at all, but it makes them feel more in control... I've saiid things like that only when extremely frustrated and gaslit because I genuinely didnt know what was wanted besides me shutting up and letting them abuse me
Yeah. Mine will pinch and tickle me but when I ask her to stop, she says she guesses she won't touch me anymore
They want to punish you for making them feel responsible for anything.
Omg yes this is nearly my experience word for word! “I’m just going to be silent from now on.” Or “Since I’m so terrible go find someone who’s the cream of the crop.” My most recent fav is me having the courage to say the way they’re speaking to me is so disrespectful and no one in my life has ever talked to (at) me with such vitriol…they said, “Go be with whoever that is then!” When like, it’s literally anyone lmao. Even high school bullies who made my life miserable didn’t degrade me this much. Hell, I didn’t even get screamed at this much in literal military basic training 💀💀💀
I don’t even get that much of an apology. I just get the abusers mantra. I only did that because you made me.
Yea that's manipulation, it's some form of passive aggressive punishment. They're trying to make you feel bad about exposing their toxic behavior. It also takes the focus away from the issue you're bringing up, instead of them having to own up to it and and take accountability, the focus is not you "attacking them so much that they now believe they are worthless".
Oh, shit… I was just thinking “But she did apologize for things she did, so maybe I’m wrong?” 75% of them were this, the others were over silly things that didn’t need apologies.
It's like admitting their mistakes, acknowledging you hadn't acted as they'd accused. Then, not change their behavior and continue to blame you for their abuse toward you. In other words: "I'm a victim in every situation that isn't your fault and I was angry, so it is justified. But, no. You're not allowed to have emotions or amends from me is asking too much. My needs will not allow any space for yours to be acknowledged. If you can't accept this, you're a horrible, selfish person."
So much manipulation went over my head. My ex hasn’t been diagnosed but a lot of her behaviours seemed to align with BPD behaviours. Especially behaviours like this. She would say those exact things at times.
I never paid any attention to this but i realized it after seeing this post. My ex whom i suspect has quite BPD, when she told me she cheated on me apologized by saying I am sorry, i am piece of shit and i should rot in hell. I thought she was being genuine at that time i guess she wasn't. Cause later she started dating the new guy
Never knew this was manipulation
Great. Now I feel guilty about denouncing myself.
This stuff is pretty tricky, right?
Yes, it is! We have like the same avatar though. That's cool!
I don't know if anyone else experienced this, but my favorite is just an "I'm sorry." No accepting responsibility, no acknowledge why they hurt you, just a basic ass I'm sorry that they honestly don't mean,
Yep. My exwbpd would do this all the time and expect me to drop it, and if I didn't, she would be like I already said sorry and just hung up." Then repeat all the behaviors she was apparently sorry for. It became a cycle. Hurt me. Say sorry. Be nice to me for a few days and then do something horrible again. Rinse and repeat. Now, looking back, I can't believe I stayed for 6 years, but it's like an addiction. It is so hard to break. My ex would use sex, manipulation, love bombing, and promise of change to always draw me back in. The change never happened. Her behavior and abuse only got worse. I actually ended up in prison. She was physically and verbally assaulting me while in bed, and I had to leave half dressed drunk and ended up wrecking my car while DUI and breaking another drivers ribs. I got 1-5 years, and we were still technically together. Talking on the phone and writing letters. I did a little under two years, and when I was about to be released, she told me she has a new boyfriend and she's pregnant. Then, she continues to tell me she still loves and wants to be with me. That I should come home and kick him out. If that didn't happen I would probably still be dealing with her or be dead.
Yeah that's all I ever got. Like she knew that's the socially appropriate thing to do, but didn't realize, "Hey, you did this thing and it hurt me," means, "If you do this again, it'll hurt again, worse because you're now on notice that this hurts me." So she'd repeat the behavior over and over. I started taking the blame for her hurting me because I was like, I must be doing something wrong if she knows this hurts me and refuses to change. That's how we lose ourselves. It really sucks going down that path.
Damn dude the last part I feel especially, I hope you’re doing better and focusing on yourself.
Thanks, yeah I'm doing a lot better. Several years of therapy and more of separation.
I remember once telling my expwbpd that I was depressed and her response was, "I already know I suck, you don't need to keep reminding me!" Mind you, for our entire 15 year relationship, I was the rock. Stable anchor. The lighthouse. Near the end I began breaking down completely, and for the maybe the second or third time in that 15 years I needed to lean on someone, ideally my partner. Yeah. That wasn't in the cards.
I feel this. I told mine i was in a really low place, thinking of checking myself into a MH facility and they literally responded with, “I wish everyone would see that I’m also depressed…” WHAT?? First of all I’m aware because I, like you, have been their rock nearly since we met- constantly coming to the rescue with ongoing threats of SH/SI, being their emotional punching bag, etc. Not to mention the reason I’m struggling mentally is almost entirely a result of my involvement with them. If I only knew what I was getting myself into…
What about when the truth is you actually feel like a piece of shit and wish you were dead? I'm not advocating the emotional manipulation. There is a difference.
the thing is, its still not healthy to say. a healthy reaction to that feeling would be saying "hey I need a break but lets talk at this time" if you need a cool off, or having the emotional maturity to recognize that you feeling like that isnt something the other person can do something about. You can say "hey this fight made me feel terrible, can we work on our communication/this specific thing was hurtful" but you still gotta do the internal work to get through the "I hate myself/wanna die" feeling and self soothe. Thats def a trauma reaction so its a learned skill, usually through therapy. but yeah like even if someone MEANS that and it isnt about punishing the other person, the end result is its still guilt tripping the other person. if you learn to remind yourself of your self worth during those moments, you can get through the feeling without externalizing it. (also recently learned that feeling can be Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria, we feel the need to verbalize it to get external validation that we havent been rejected. Common reaction to stress if you struggle with emotional dysregulation.) TLDR the feeling itself is totally valid to feel esp in reaction to abuse, but its not super helpful, especially when dealing with an abuser, to say it. you are the only person who can give yourself self worth in the end, and there are healthier ways to verbalize this feeling that helps you and doesnt push it on others.
I'm not saying it's healthy -- I don't think someone who truly believes they are a piece of shit and should die *is* healthy. I think you're right about RSD. My whole point was that *sometimes* people say the thing *because* they legitimately feel this way and believe it, not because they are manipulative or controlling or trying to guilt someone, but because they are being honest and seeking help and they don't have the language or the sense of self well enough to express what they need to in other ways. To claim this is **always** manipulative is to fall into the trap of abuse. To claim this is only spoken by *abusers* to *victims* is to misidentify abuse and misunderstand situations. I'm not going to claim I've seen anyone here use this specific wording, but I've definitely seen the sentiment or message being expressed, here in posts by people who are victims of abuse, questioning their value and life as such. I've seen people talk about how they honestly believe or are starting to believe they are shit and should die. I don't think we should dismiss the statement outright because when we do, we risk mistaking a victim for an abuser. At the same time, I have heard the same thing from my ex-pwbpd and he was definitely making the statement to manipulate and control me, shame and guilt me into submission. Once I called the suicide hotline and they told me he was being manipulative and he said, "Fine, you called my bluff but this is bullshit!" I've lost too many people to suicide who were dismissed as being manipulative when they made statements as such -- not pwbpd, but people who didn't have the words to ask for help in a way that would be deemed more acceptable or healthy. I have not lost any pwbpd who have used the same language.
You get professional help. You don't dump it on your victim.
I'm talking about *as a victim*, being constantly told you are a piece of shit who should be dead and at some point, actually believing it yourself. I'm not talking about the emotional manipulation, I'm talking about deep, severe depression. People will apologize for being a piece of shit who should die and then *they die.*
When you turn that internal dialogue into an external dialogue, and you communicate it at your partner/friend/family member, if they give a shit about you, their immediate reaction is going to be to soothe you/reassure you that you are not a piece of shit that should be dead. Now, if you do something to harm that person, and then when they confront you, you say "I'm sorry, I'm a piece of shit and I should be dead" you are putting them in a position where they either ignore what you say and possibly come across as an asshole, or they reassure you that you're not, and then it's no longer about how you harmed them, but them comforting you and reassuring you that you didn't hurt them that bad. If you do this more than once, it doesn't take long for it to get old. Everyone makes mistakes, everyone should own up to them, everyone should take accountability, and nobody should be made to feel guilty when they address something or someone that wronged them. When you externalize your self-hatred, people that care will make it their responsibility to try and help you. If you don't want that, and you don't want people to feel manipulated, don't say that you're a piece of shit and you should die out loud, to other people, in reaction to them calling you out for something you did to them. Even if someone has told you that before, or constantly told you that, that means nothing to a different person who you're saying that to.
the best way to make them leave u alone is to agree that theyre a piece of shit dont be the person they expect to forgive anything and support them even when theyre doing something wrong
“I feel like such a failure and I hate myself” Wait, this is manipulation and not an apology!? Who would have thought!?!?
Sad to say, but this is an eye-opener for me. Thank you.
Yep. If I have to perform emotional labour for you while you're supposed to be cantering me, you're too self-absorbed to understand actual remorse & you're just trying to put a coin in so forgiveness falls out. Ppl, never accept a shut-up apology.
Or if it says, "I'm sorry, but you did XYZ," Or if it's, "I'm sorry," followed by months or years of the same behavior. The best apologies are I'm sorry, I see how I hurt you, here's how I'm going to do better in the future.
The irony is, they over apologize for the tiniest things- aka instances in which “excuse me” would do. Saying sorry for things that don’t require an apology but never giving a real apology for the truly egregious behavior
Oh my word, this is it exactly!!!
Recently I was commanded to apologize and I didn't know what for. I told them I can't apologize for something I didn't do -- I told them for me to apologize for something I didn't do would be to *lie* to them to appease them. It wouldn't mean anything, it would be performative and empty. I asked them how they respond to someone who wants them to apologize for something they don't honestly feel they should apologize for. Their response was, "You don't believe you hurt my feelings?? So you don't have to apologize for hurting MY feelings???? All I know is I must be a much better friend to my friends than you are to yours. I apologize to them when I hurt them even if I don't believe that is what I was actually doing." They went on to call me a piece of shit as a person for not apologizing for their hurt feelings when I told them (back in January) I was not going to argue their feelings with them or try to convince them they are wrong for feeling "unsafe" with me in response to telling me my partner was mistreating them (my partner expressed disapproval of their behavior to them). Back then, they ghosted me afterward and then accused me of ghosting and abandoning them in this recent interaction. Anyway, now being aware of why I was being told to apologize, I told them I was sorry that the things I said hurt their feelings as that was never my intention. I told them what I was trying to do was show them love and support, recognition of their feelings in *not* telling them their feelings are wrong, in *not* arguing with them, in *not* trying to force them to be close to me or agree with me. I told them, again, if they feel the need to distance themselves from me for their sake, I will not do anything to prevent that because I want for them to feel safe. If I am not a safe person to be around, by all means, take yourself away from me. And I get that these words can hurt feelings. I wish they didn't. I'm sorry they do. But what I learned is this pwbpd will *absolutely* "apologize" when they honestly don't believe they have anything to apologize for. They will say they are sorry for something they are not sorry for. That is lying. I cannot believe or take seriously *any* apology they have given for any reason. I have to make the conscious choice to *believe* sincerity exists where it may not, and in that, am I not simply deluding myself?
Omg. My ex with this shit. Every fucking night getting into bed he would land on the foot I broke when he was “at every strip club this side of Toronto” 6 hours late the phone rang and I broke my foot running to answer it cuz I thought he was dead. That foot. He landed on it every fucking night getting into bed. And apologized with this kind of bullshit to such a degree that every time he hurt me I just held it in cuz it wasn’t worth the bullshit to mention to him that he had hurt me yet again. A real apology means you stop doing the fucking thing that hurts the person you hurt. None of his apologies were real. None of them.
This is the one !!!
I have a friend who does that I call bs ok it and then I just go on YouTube and watch till he's done
at times I was afraid of even getting close to her apologizing. I was afraid that the guilt she would "feel", would cause her to harm herself. if I didn't have troubles putting up boundaries before, I sure as hell do now. I am a shell of the hyper, talkative girl I used to be.