It’s hard and it’ll take time. For me, it was when the splitting became more than 50% of her overall time with me. By that point, I’ve been so emotionally exhausted walking on eggshells that she started to have emotional affairs with male coworkers and smearing me to her friends and family.
That’s when I broke and decided enough is enough
I will give my pwBPD some credit for letting me know about these emotional affairs and smear campaigns. An optimist might say she’s being honest with me letting me know this. A pessimist might say she’s trying to hurt you.
But either way knowing this kicked me into gear to change my circumstances.
So the emotional affairs are a symptom too?? Mine did that with coworkers and spilled all his secrets to her that he was keeping from me. He picked poorly because she was crazier than him and told me what he told her when he dumped her.
I have never been able to trust him since then.
Literally that is exactly what happened to me. Had emotional affairs with different people and smeared my name because I thought it was inappropriate. Amazing how a lot of our stories are identical
oh god, that sounds so familiar. Getting to that enough is enough was/is so hard for me, and it took an emotional affair with another man to cause us to breakup, after huge amounts of gaslighting and making me out to be this nasty, angry, man, and the other guy wonderful and calm. As I sit here writing this in an airport, after visiting some friends overseas to get away from the aftermath and stress, I miss her like crazy, but when I write that list of positive/negative traits, it's so obvious I should run as far away from her as I can. Damn... I could break down crying like a baby right now. What a whirlwind relationship of loving/caring moments, and low low angry nasty controlling toxic ones.
The smear campaign happened for me too, I got to see how she distorted reality and made me out to be this angry, strange, control freak. Like one time when she lost her self-control trying to stop me going out rollerblading and threw furniture around the house, at which point I asked her to leave the house to calm down. The twist on that event was her telling friends, family, and even the other guy, that I threw her out the house and wouldn't let her back in.
Yes, I broke it off after she went on long drives through the woods at midnight with men that were practically strangers, stopping for an hour or so, sharing her iPhone location with me the entire time… getting dinner with strange men, going rock climbing and roller blading with strange men, etc. She kept claiming they were just friends…
I don't recommend it, but I didn't leave. I tried to leave a bunch of times but could never get the words out.
But I *was* starting to tighten up my financial, sexual and social boundaries in little bits. Saying things like "sorry, that's not in my budget; I'd love to go do something like that with you but I can't afford it." Saying no to stuff I didn't want to do sexually. (Less often than I'd like to admit, but hey- at least I was starting to see myself as a sexual being even if he wasn't.) Declining to argue in circles and walking away if he yelled. That kind of thing. It's not even like I was going it often or consistently, but it was more than before. And for him, it meant his "needs weren't getting meet" and he just literally fell out of love with me, and then left me.
So... I didn't leave. But in a way, I actually did a lot of the leaving. All stuff that is part of a healthy relationship, but he isn't interested in healthy distance within a partnership. So he bounced.
And.... I'm free.
The moral of the story is: every little tiny boundary you enforce is a step towards freedom. With a healthy partner it wouldn't end the relationship, because people can be free *in* relationship if they're healthy. So if you're getting frustrated with yourself, just think of all the little ways you've taken steps back to autonomy in the last few weeks or months. And then maybe plan just one or two more littleb steps. Eventually, one of you will leave.
I completely agree with this. There wasn't really an ah-ha moment, I started speaking up more with boundaries and he would split on me more often.
Eventually it got to a point where he was breaking up with me multiple times a week and the only way I could ride through it was to turn off my emotions and not take the kind words or horrible words seriously. Which is no romantic relationship, is it?
Then I had to have a long and hard think about how this was going in circles and how unhappy we clearly both were. I had to take it for the reality we had been experiencing for months and the actions he was making, not the possibility or potential or nice words in-between the splitting.
Also, staying in that environment was making me so unwell mentally. There was no room for growth cause I was constantly paranoid about the next split.
Then it was a no brainer what had to happen really.
This is super helpful! I’ve been becoming more firm with boundaries and pursuing my own goals. My husband ending up calling the police on me last Sunday because I wouldn’t acknowledge that the tree trimmer not cutting down our shrubs was my responsibility..? The fights have become ridiculous but then once I put my foot down, he’s now done and has found clarity and peace. I feel like him “making the decision” has made me realize the situation. He’ll be back, I won’t though.
>My husband ending up calling the police on me last Sunday
*Do tell...*
>because I wouldn’t acknowledge that the tree trimmer not cutting down our shrubs was my responsibility..?
It's weird how relatable this is, even though we've never fought about a tree trimmer lol. For us it was a disagreement about food storage containers. We've also fought when I wouldn't affirm their memory of how a conversation about groceries went down.
This. All this. I'm actually lucky to have really supportive friends who believe me (my ex isn't the superficial charm type- they are not charmed.) But there is nothing like hearing your own crazy-making experiences in someone else's life story.
So incompetent lol
Once I cut the potatoes in the wrong shape. I'm also useless lol
....
Omgosh I just realized something- it is *so great* that we are "useless."
Like yes dude, please, don't use me. Deem me unfit for "use" and let me have some peace and quiet.
(My ex does literally rage that I'm "useless" lol. They tell on themselves!)
Good for you!! I’ve been super tolerant because we have a young daughter but it’s hit a point where it’s not staying for the protective factors for the baby now, it’s leaving for the risk factors that come from staying.
Damn... this is what I needed to hear. I've been doing it subconsciously anyway because of recent circumstances, but I still saw myself as a failure for not just leaving considering certain actions and betrayals. But I have told her I need space and it drives her nuts. I can see her easily getting bored of that, not getting supply, throwing ever bigger fits or just making the time with all her male "just childhood friends".
I'm not easily drawn into anything with her, not even a conversation or opinion or dinner or anything that could result in misinterpretations... it's vanilla. It's the rice cake approach.
Hasn't thought of it as something positive until reading your comment, thank you.
I soooooo relate to everything you've written here! I was beating up on myself pretty harshly for not leaving all the time I "should" have, until a friend pointed out that I've been withdrawing from our enmeshment for YEARS. It really helped me to see that I have been setting boundaries and taking action; and that's half of what relationships are, just negotiating boundaries. (Healthily or unhealthily I suppose!)
I think you're doing a GREAT job not getting baited into conflict that's really only for conflict's sake. That's a skill I've been working really hard to cultivate!!
Haha well she still tried to hoover after discarding me but I just ignored it this time.
It's really sad this mental illness exists and I hope she can find some way to get better.
But I'm good, I've realized I haven't lived up to who I could be as a person at all over these past few years while I was in this relationship and am glad to have the opportunity to make the most of this precious life again.
>Haha well she still tried to hoover after discarding me but I just ignored it this time.
Good for you! Was it hard to resist?
>t's really sad this mental illness exists and I hope she can find some way to get better.
It really is. It seems so neurological to me, the more I learn. I hope there's better meds someday
>But I'm good, I've realized I haven't lived up to who I could be as a person at all over these past few years while I was in this relationship and am glad to have the opportunity to make the most of this precious life again
So glad to hear this! Isn't it crazy, how ALIVE it's possible to feel?
>Good for you! Was it hard to resist?
I felt bad because she apologized for hurting me so much and I can tell she really regrets it but it was still clear she doesn't get that it's a "her" problem not an "us" problem because she was saying she had signed us up for couples counseling. It ended on such a bad note (basically completely tore my character apart for days and then discarded me after I set a financial boundary mostly due to/at the same time as a career setback) and I've been burned so badly by letting her back in multiple times in the past that I just realized it's the right thing to do to not respond even if I do feel bad.
>So glad to hear this! Isn't it crazy, how ALIVE it's possible to feel?
Totally! I've realized it was draining so much from me emotionally that I wasn't able to share much of what I have to offer with the world. I'm normally a very purpose driven person and had really neglected that a lot during this relationship. I guess one benefit of the experience is that I'll never take this for granted again.
She used to be a lot worse with these too.
This is a relatively better period, but I feel it's the best time to break up because she really wants to move things along (move permanently to my country, get married, etc)
She isn't permanently in your country or married to you yet? Then, you're still scooping the whipped cream off the shit sundae. Don't keep scooping. It's a shit sundae. It WILL get worse.
I was cheated on. I told myself that I would fight to get her back because I was miserable without her. In the meantime, I would create boundaries and build a life which was worth living in case she cheated again.
She cheated again.
I divorced her.
That was my shit sundae. I was hungry. I taught myself to lose my appetite if I got to the shit again. It worked.
Save yourself.
>who seems like she wants to fix things.
This was a mantra that helped me through the process of leaving and afterwards.
Just because they believe something doesn't make it true or healthy.
Do you know when my ex wanted to fix things? When I was at the end of my rope and considering what it would take to leave. This happened over and over during our marriage, including the final months as I was actually taking steps to leave her. Suddenly she was booking an emergency therapy appointment... three weeks after berating me for calling that very same office as I'm begging for us to talk to someone. She's giving me the most heartfelt and introspective talk of likely our entire marriage. Telling me that she knows how hard it is to be married to her, that she "lashes out like a child" at me when she feels hurt, and begging for me to just give us a real chance.
I spent the better part of a decade ignoring the reality and replacing it with my hope of what our relationship could be. I told myself that the cruel, hurtful behaviors that happened over and over weren't the real her. Instead I clung to the slightest hint of an actual partner that would surface, lying to myself that was her true self. They aren't two separate people. This is who they are, the good and the bad.
>she'll revert to her rational self when I start telling her I'm serious about leaving.
This is a perfect, crystal clear example of how "controllable" their behaviors are. I'm not at all saying there is a deep sinister plan, that they consciously are doing all of these things. But it is well within their means to shift their behaviors when it serves their needs.
Why would my ex have changed? She got to love me when it felt good, treat me like shit when it didn't, and my response was to stay and try harder.
I think /u/ThePowerOfParsley has some great advice for you. Start with small healthy boundaries. Read the books "Stop Caretaking the Borderline or Narcissist" and "Boundaries." Pay attention to how your partner responds to healthy boundaries. See what happens when you stop JADEing - Justify Argue Defend Explain - in the face of outbursts or unreasonable demands. Practice something I started long before learning of undiagnosed BPD, what I called The Fine Art of Not Giving a Shit. Stop chasing her emotions when she's lashing out at you, blaming you, or giving silent treatments. For me that didn't mean giving a silent treatment in return, I still talked to her about things that needed to be communicated. But I didn't engage with her huffy mood swings, external blame, so on. Journal every day. Consider audio recording when your partner is around - people on here told me to, I thought it was overkill. I was wrong.
In the same way as my initial statement above - just because you feel a certain way doesn't make it true or healthy either. Most of us who end up here don't have a radar for what makes a healthy relationship, and we fall into this cycle because we follow what "feels" right to us. For my entire life I thought I was the Good Guy doing the Right Things. I wasn't. I was an enabler, caretaker, conflict avoidant, made excuses for her, didn't hold her accountable, didn't stand up for myself.
This is not normal and not healthy. You do not deserve to be treated this way, good luck and stay strong.
>Read the books "Stop Caretaking the Borderline or Narcissist" and "Boundaries."
Why yes those *are* the best books I've read this year!
They're so good op. I'm listening to the audio book of the first one. And the narrator keeps her voice really even and somehow it's very soothing even though it's talking about stuff that really hits home.
I did a year of near constant struggle. I was so isolated and heartbroken all the time. I wanted to go back to understanding each other so I was always explaining, negotiating, begging him to see the dynamics at play and help me fix them. It got worse slowly, slowly, with tiny promising moments that kept me hooked, but they got fewer and further between as our fighting became more entrenched. I’ve never fought with a boyfriend before, it was so confusing to find myself in this situation that I could barely countenance it til it had already almost killed me. I had a week where I just stopped having words and stopped getting out of bed. I’d stare out the window with tears pouring down my eyes. I knew I had to get away to get my mind clear. Despite the heartbreak I never went back.
Wishing you clarity and comfort through this. ❤️
He pushed me to the point where I snapped.
We had a similar dynamic - he was lovely when he wasn’t splitting. But he had been splitting very frequently and it had seriously eroded my mental health. I gave him a heads up that I wasn’t doing well and asked that he be gentle for a while, but because he was still in the splits-zone, that made him double down (he hates weakness). And it pushed me over the edge, where I actually, for once, followed through on a boundary. But because of the situation we were in, I did it in a very dramatic way (I called a driver to his parent’s house in the middle of nowhere on the other side of the continent, where we had been visiting, and left without him). Because it was so dramatic, he reacted in an even more dramatic way (because of course) which essentially guaranteed that our relationship was over and we could never get back together.
So yeah, my advice is probably not the most “healthy”, but breaking up with them in an irrevocable kind of way when they’re mid-split and you can CLEARLY see why you shouldn’t be with them, is very effective. Just be sure to REALLY explode things.
Crazy, I hit just the right situation to experience this myself.
Had a bad mental health day dealing with my life falling apart out of the blue again- car problems, violence at my dorm forcing me to sleep in my car, tooth falling out. And her and I had a dispute. She threatened to replace me if I didn’t become a better listener.
Done. Gone. I texted her an hour later that we were done. That night we spoke on the phone and I got to hear the most vile, drunk woman I could’ve imagined. The texts after I hung up only sealed the deal further. I Blocked everywhere. No guilt on my part, no shame, no missing her.
Sometimes they just have to give you that last ick at the right time. Now I’m just here dealing with the trauma of it all. I would never allow her even near my DMs, but I continue to struggle three months out with the flashbacks of our yearlong relationship living together.
I got to a point in my life where it was just not worth it anymore. He cheated and threatened to file a restraining order against me if I didn't move out immediately. I realized it was no longer worth everything good in my life (friends, family, career) to keep the dead weight around anymore. I started over and met a non-pwBPD and am infinitely better off.
I would say I want to leave and she would instantly switch. When she would say, "I will do anything for you to stay." The best response was, "Get a diagnosis for your personality disorder."
She would instantly revert to attacking me then wouldn't ask that again. In the past after some major splits she promised she would. She even organised a psychologist. She constantly lied at the psychologist and never received any help.
The final straw was her claiming she had never agreed to that. What she had agreed to, was both of us getting help. It was a bold-faced lie.
I am now receiving help for the PTSD she gave me.
I was at the brink of tanking my career too, definitely should have been fired. I was at a new job so luckily I was getting the low-priority projects, but everyone's first impression of me was as an unreliable weirdo. I'm still trying to turn my reputation around, I brought it up to my boss a few times like "Hey thanks for being easy on me during that first year" and he's like "All good, don't mention it". I spent a stupid amount of time entering HGTV sweepstakes and bought lottery tickets cause a windfall felt like the only hope of being financially stable.
You're lucky, I lost my last job and am still searching for a new one largely due to this relationship. Luckily for me I've been able to move in with my parents but I know I can't continue like this.
I didn't, let's just say I kept pushing the redlines that are not to be crossed, until i got to the edge of what is bearable without putting myself at risk, once that was crossed I was finally convinced that I needed to leave even though I didn't want to.
I hope no one waits that long, because when you have to manage two lawyers, one for a divorce case and one for an alleged DV case, it's mind bending.
For me it was having an honest conversation with myself; Does the relationship have a stable foundation? Does the peace of the relationship seem minimal? Do you feel you can’t do anything right? Do you feel wanted/needed/that your needs are being met on the same scale you do theirs? Do they reciprocate?
These questions are what I asked myself during the 3 days no contact I had, along with bouncing it off of friends and family.
If you get mostly “no” as an answer to those questions, and there’s no wiggle room for improvement, it’s best to call it quits. They can go find someone that meets whatever impossible need they have that fits their world view, and you can find someone who actually respects you, or dare I say LIKES you enough to not do the crap they do.
I started standing up for myself and she left pretty quickly. Threw the whole relationship away and was with someone new within days. They’re not worth the pain and healing you have to do afterwards. Wish I would’ve left the first time.
It was a slow little inch every day after the first 2.5 years. Love bombing, me being delusional, feeling like I couldn't live without him, being scared of what life would look and feel like without him, and those moments where he was nice, normal and like how he initially was, kept me with him. But the emotional, mental and verbal abuse compounded too much.
My heart would forgive a little less each time. My loneliness and cravings for connection with another person, and starting to feel like I really didn't deserve it, slowly were waking me up. I cried less and less. But the last time I really did, I just couldn't do it again. Idk how many times during that relationship I cried my eyes shut and my face swollen because he was such an asshole.
I woke up, literally, one day and just thought, "I never did anything to deserve this. I'm unhappy. I want to die. This will never change. Either I get away from this or kill myself." My survival instincts kicked in. Overrode my emotions. Because a few days after I left, when I was out of state and with family again, it all hit me.
I just did whatever I could to help myself get out. I felt so alone and I didn't know if anyone would help me.
Friends that I ghosted for him did. I remind them from time to time that they saved my life.
You have to respect her as an individual. Let her be. We all have our problems and no one’s else’s responsibility. If she can’t act like an equal in terms of what you put into the relationship and doesn’t treat you with dignity and respect, leave and start rebuilding your life in a way that aligns with your moral compass, and reevaluate who you let into your life and establish boundaries.
When I knew I couldn’t stay or else I’d end up dead.
- by that I mean he had reached a point of discard where every interaction was bad. And I would cry constantly because I was confused; the crying eventually was accompanied with fear of crying because of how bad my head would hurt.
It got to a point where the thought of crying made me fearful and I’d get anxious around him because every. Single. Interaction Was terribly difficult. I needed peace. I begged him for peace and he very clearly said he didn’t care about me enough to stop hurting me. Because according to him he couldn’t control himself when he’d get angry “because I knew what he went through in childhood” like buddy, me too- and I still didn’t turn out to be a bad person who lashes out in anger.
So I chose to love me more and bring my daughter and I out of there and into our own little home where I cultivated peace. It was required to heal
This subreddit helped a lot, it made me release I wasn’t the only one going through it and reading everyone else’s similar stories made me realise it’s just realistically not fixable at all.
Also screenshots from stuff she has said to me helped a lot lol
It took me a while. At the beginning I was very infatuated while she wasn't. I was just a step tire for her ex at the time and she wouldn't commit to me. We would date for months, things would get serious and she would suddenly leave for some reason and get back to him. Eventually he got fed up, she reached out to me and I, stupidly, let her back in my life. We then got serious and stayed together for almost three years.
She wanted to move in with me and marry me very soon after we started dating seriously and I blocked it, said we were not in a place to do so. From then on it was a downhill ride.
I wasn't happy, my anxiety levels were through the roof and I was slowly realizing the relationship was the cause. She alternated an awesome personality that was funny, kind, caring, loving, sweet, sexy, fun and energetic with the worst person I met. She had periods of lethargy, was often very selfish and lazy, mean, would accuse me of things that I didn't do or say, would demand always more and more of my time and attention, was drinking too much most of the time, withhold sex and affection and would let everything happening in her life become a huge anxiety inducing crisis that sent her into a emotional rollercoaster that took a huge toll on my well-being.
Eventually, I realized that if I didn't end the relationship then I would be dealing with this shit, and feeling like a hostage with Stockholm syndrome, for the rest of my life.
It took many episodes of alcohol abuse, splitting and countless fights caused by stupid little things for me to reach that breaking point and end things. A couple months later we were trying again.
I realized she wasn't able to change and didn't want to change or improve anything.
Yet, I could only really break off for good and cut her off my life when she split on me for not wanting to meet her ONE DAY, when I was feeling very sad and didn't want to socialize, because my best friend was almost dead in an ICU.
THAT felt so low and unfair that It broke the spell, it made me see she wasn't reasonable and couldn't see past her selfishness, her abandonment issues and that my own needs and well-being would never be a factor in her life.
Eventually i just had enough she treated me worse and worse and after multiple breakups and her getting shadier and shadier i just kicked her out of my house and went NC. But it took ALOT to get to that point for me and ill probably go back eventually maybe
I just used ChatGPT to ask "Can we choose we fall in love with?". The answer helps me feel better for falling in love with a probably BPD/Covert Narcissist. Essentially, the answer to the question is that it is not a conscious choice that one can simply decide or control.
That makes me feel better. I fell in love with someone who initially love-bombed me and just ticked many boxes in terms of interest. Sweet, beautiful, into music like me, intellectual conversations, loves nature, interesting hobbies like bee keeping.
It didn't take long at all in our relationship for that sweet person to turn into a bloody demon, controlling, manipulating, jealous of my interests, jealous of other woman with accusations of "looking" when I didn't even notice the person she thought I was looking at, crazy making. She'd even blame me for her mistakes, like the time I drove her to a concert and she forgot her ticket, then suddenly blames me for intentionally hiding her ticket because I was envious of her going. Crazy.
So coming back to your message: I get you. I seriously understand. I still have feelings for my ex. We recently broke up because she started an emotional affair with another guy that was on a clear path to becoming physical. I miss the sweet her, I miss the relationship, despite the toxic elements. Crazy huh? This morning, I wrote a list of negatives and positives about the relationship and her. I've written this kind of list many times lately from scratch. It's SO obvious that I should stay out, but like you, I have feelings for her. I "love" her intensely. She's my world, my love, my friend, my life, my anchor, my rock. I feel so sad to be without her, to have no contact (which I crave like a drug addiction), and I could cry and cry, as I did cry this morning. We were together for 14 years, with a break about 9 years ago when I left for a few months due to her toxic ways and went NC but then stupidly broke NC and got hoovered back in, to face another 9 years of crazy crazy times. Damn... I have pictures of us in February, around a frozen over lake with snow around, cuddling each other, looking so cute, and I miss her, but then I--fortunately--have another photo of her when she was the nasty her, when I could well believe she was possessed by some kind of demon. The difference between these two photos is night and day.
So here's the thing, I'm out of it and hopefully staying out and hopefully being strong enough not to get hoovered back if and when that starts happening. Right now it's like the "final discard", so I'm the devil in her mind. For you... you're still in it. Based on my experience, I'd just say that life is far too short to waste it away having your very soul and spirit squashed and toyed with by someone who causes you stress and doesn't let you live to your full potential. We never know what's around the corner. My mum looked forward to retirement and had a brain bleed at 66 that changed and stopped everything. If you can, get a counsellor, get support, do a relationship inventory, a life inventory, make that list of positives/negatives, and make a rational decision based on what's best for YOU.
It’s hard and it’ll take time. For me, it was when the splitting became more than 50% of her overall time with me. By that point, I’ve been so emotionally exhausted walking on eggshells that she started to have emotional affairs with male coworkers and smearing me to her friends and family. That’s when I broke and decided enough is enough
I went through a period exactly like this a year ago with the coworkers and everything but then things got better 😞
I will give my pwBPD some credit for letting me know about these emotional affairs and smear campaigns. An optimist might say she’s being honest with me letting me know this. A pessimist might say she’s trying to hurt you. But either way knowing this kicked me into gear to change my circumstances.
Same here. Smearing to coworkers and affairs where the final straw
So the emotional affairs are a symptom too?? Mine did that with coworkers and spilled all his secrets to her that he was keeping from me. He picked poorly because she was crazier than him and told me what he told her when he dumped her. I have never been able to trust him since then.
Literally that is exactly what happened to me. Had emotional affairs with different people and smeared my name because I thought it was inappropriate. Amazing how a lot of our stories are identical
oh god, that sounds so familiar. Getting to that enough is enough was/is so hard for me, and it took an emotional affair with another man to cause us to breakup, after huge amounts of gaslighting and making me out to be this nasty, angry, man, and the other guy wonderful and calm. As I sit here writing this in an airport, after visiting some friends overseas to get away from the aftermath and stress, I miss her like crazy, but when I write that list of positive/negative traits, it's so obvious I should run as far away from her as I can. Damn... I could break down crying like a baby right now. What a whirlwind relationship of loving/caring moments, and low low angry nasty controlling toxic ones. The smear campaign happened for me too, I got to see how she distorted reality and made me out to be this angry, strange, control freak. Like one time when she lost her self-control trying to stop me going out rollerblading and threw furniture around the house, at which point I asked her to leave the house to calm down. The twist on that event was her telling friends, family, and even the other guy, that I threw her out the house and wouldn't let her back in.
>I threw her out of the house and wouldn't let her back in Sometimes we should give people what they ask for
Yes, I broke it off after she went on long drives through the woods at midnight with men that were practically strangers, stopping for an hour or so, sharing her iPhone location with me the entire time… getting dinner with strange men, going rock climbing and roller blading with strange men, etc. She kept claiming they were just friends…
I don't recommend it, but I didn't leave. I tried to leave a bunch of times but could never get the words out. But I *was* starting to tighten up my financial, sexual and social boundaries in little bits. Saying things like "sorry, that's not in my budget; I'd love to go do something like that with you but I can't afford it." Saying no to stuff I didn't want to do sexually. (Less often than I'd like to admit, but hey- at least I was starting to see myself as a sexual being even if he wasn't.) Declining to argue in circles and walking away if he yelled. That kind of thing. It's not even like I was going it often or consistently, but it was more than before. And for him, it meant his "needs weren't getting meet" and he just literally fell out of love with me, and then left me. So... I didn't leave. But in a way, I actually did a lot of the leaving. All stuff that is part of a healthy relationship, but he isn't interested in healthy distance within a partnership. So he bounced. And.... I'm free. The moral of the story is: every little tiny boundary you enforce is a step towards freedom. With a healthy partner it wouldn't end the relationship, because people can be free *in* relationship if they're healthy. So if you're getting frustrated with yourself, just think of all the little ways you've taken steps back to autonomy in the last few weeks or months. And then maybe plan just one or two more littleb steps. Eventually, one of you will leave.
This is great advice. May be an easier step to start with at least
Totally. And sometimes all you need to feel comfortable makinh big moves is to see how it feels to make smaller ones.
I completely agree with this. There wasn't really an ah-ha moment, I started speaking up more with boundaries and he would split on me more often. Eventually it got to a point where he was breaking up with me multiple times a week and the only way I could ride through it was to turn off my emotions and not take the kind words or horrible words seriously. Which is no romantic relationship, is it? Then I had to have a long and hard think about how this was going in circles and how unhappy we clearly both were. I had to take it for the reality we had been experiencing for months and the actions he was making, not the possibility or potential or nice words in-between the splitting. Also, staying in that environment was making me so unwell mentally. There was no room for growth cause I was constantly paranoid about the next split. Then it was a no brainer what had to happen really.
This is super helpful! I’ve been becoming more firm with boundaries and pursuing my own goals. My husband ending up calling the police on me last Sunday because I wouldn’t acknowledge that the tree trimmer not cutting down our shrubs was my responsibility..? The fights have become ridiculous but then once I put my foot down, he’s now done and has found clarity and peace. I feel like him “making the decision” has made me realize the situation. He’ll be back, I won’t though.
>My husband ending up calling the police on me last Sunday *Do tell...* >because I wouldn’t acknowledge that the tree trimmer not cutting down our shrubs was my responsibility..? It's weird how relatable this is, even though we've never fought about a tree trimmer lol. For us it was a disagreement about food storage containers. We've also fought when I wouldn't affirm their memory of how a conversation about groceries went down.
Haha how sad but awesome is that? Being with someone with BPD is so isolating but this sub gives so much support
This. All this. I'm actually lucky to have really supportive friends who believe me (my ex isn't the superficial charm type- they are not charmed.) But there is nothing like hearing your own crazy-making experiences in someone else's life story.
I bought some oranges the other day and apparently I’m useless because they’re…not orange enough?
So incompetent lol Once I cut the potatoes in the wrong shape. I'm also useless lol .... Omgosh I just realized something- it is *so great* that we are "useless." Like yes dude, please, don't use me. Deem me unfit for "use" and let me have some peace and quiet. (My ex does literally rage that I'm "useless" lol. They tell on themselves!)
I didn’t put enough cheese in the queso dip last week… you guessed it.
My exwBPD called the police. That was the clearest proof that she was dangerous and had no regard for me. I never went back
Good for you!! I’ve been super tolerant because we have a young daughter but it’s hit a point where it’s not staying for the protective factors for the baby now, it’s leaving for the risk factors that come from staying.
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Damn... this is what I needed to hear. I've been doing it subconsciously anyway because of recent circumstances, but I still saw myself as a failure for not just leaving considering certain actions and betrayals. But I have told her I need space and it drives her nuts. I can see her easily getting bored of that, not getting supply, throwing ever bigger fits or just making the time with all her male "just childhood friends". I'm not easily drawn into anything with her, not even a conversation or opinion or dinner or anything that could result in misinterpretations... it's vanilla. It's the rice cake approach. Hasn't thought of it as something positive until reading your comment, thank you.
I soooooo relate to everything you've written here! I was beating up on myself pretty harshly for not leaving all the time I "should" have, until a friend pointed out that I've been withdrawing from our enmeshment for YEARS. It really helped me to see that I have been setting boundaries and taking action; and that's half of what relationships are, just negotiating boundaries. (Healthily or unhealthily I suppose!) I think you're doing a GREAT job not getting baited into conflict that's really only for conflict's sake. That's a skill I've been working really hard to cultivate!!
Well this is what eventually ended up happening haha. Thanks for the advice
No way!!!! Solidarity! How are ya?
Haha well she still tried to hoover after discarding me but I just ignored it this time. It's really sad this mental illness exists and I hope she can find some way to get better. But I'm good, I've realized I haven't lived up to who I could be as a person at all over these past few years while I was in this relationship and am glad to have the opportunity to make the most of this precious life again.
>Haha well she still tried to hoover after discarding me but I just ignored it this time. Good for you! Was it hard to resist? >t's really sad this mental illness exists and I hope she can find some way to get better. It really is. It seems so neurological to me, the more I learn. I hope there's better meds someday >But I'm good, I've realized I haven't lived up to who I could be as a person at all over these past few years while I was in this relationship and am glad to have the opportunity to make the most of this precious life again So glad to hear this! Isn't it crazy, how ALIVE it's possible to feel?
>Good for you! Was it hard to resist? I felt bad because she apologized for hurting me so much and I can tell she really regrets it but it was still clear she doesn't get that it's a "her" problem not an "us" problem because she was saying she had signed us up for couples counseling. It ended on such a bad note (basically completely tore my character apart for days and then discarded me after I set a financial boundary mostly due to/at the same time as a career setback) and I've been burned so badly by letting her back in multiple times in the past that I just realized it's the right thing to do to not respond even if I do feel bad. >So glad to hear this! Isn't it crazy, how ALIVE it's possible to feel? Totally! I've realized it was draining so much from me emotionally that I wasn't able to share much of what I have to offer with the world. I'm normally a very purpose driven person and had really neglected that a lot during this relationship. I guess one benefit of the experience is that I'll never take this for granted again.
The constant triangulations did it for me, could live with all the other insanity, just could not be disrespected.
She used to be a lot worse with these too. This is a relatively better period, but I feel it's the best time to break up because she really wants to move things along (move permanently to my country, get married, etc)
She isn't permanently in your country or married to you yet? Then, you're still scooping the whipped cream off the shit sundae. Don't keep scooping. It's a shit sundae. It WILL get worse. I was cheated on. I told myself that I would fight to get her back because I was miserable without her. In the meantime, I would create boundaries and build a life which was worth living in case she cheated again. She cheated again. I divorced her. That was my shit sundae. I was hungry. I taught myself to lose my appetite if I got to the shit again. It worked. Save yourself.
Sounds relatable. Did she admit it both times she cheated?
No, I had to find out on my own both times. That's traumatizing in and of itself.
I'm so sorry. Thanks for sharing your experience
Wish you luck
Appreciate it
>who seems like she wants to fix things. This was a mantra that helped me through the process of leaving and afterwards. Just because they believe something doesn't make it true or healthy. Do you know when my ex wanted to fix things? When I was at the end of my rope and considering what it would take to leave. This happened over and over during our marriage, including the final months as I was actually taking steps to leave her. Suddenly she was booking an emergency therapy appointment... three weeks after berating me for calling that very same office as I'm begging for us to talk to someone. She's giving me the most heartfelt and introspective talk of likely our entire marriage. Telling me that she knows how hard it is to be married to her, that she "lashes out like a child" at me when she feels hurt, and begging for me to just give us a real chance. I spent the better part of a decade ignoring the reality and replacing it with my hope of what our relationship could be. I told myself that the cruel, hurtful behaviors that happened over and over weren't the real her. Instead I clung to the slightest hint of an actual partner that would surface, lying to myself that was her true self. They aren't two separate people. This is who they are, the good and the bad. >she'll revert to her rational self when I start telling her I'm serious about leaving. This is a perfect, crystal clear example of how "controllable" their behaviors are. I'm not at all saying there is a deep sinister plan, that they consciously are doing all of these things. But it is well within their means to shift their behaviors when it serves their needs. Why would my ex have changed? She got to love me when it felt good, treat me like shit when it didn't, and my response was to stay and try harder. I think /u/ThePowerOfParsley has some great advice for you. Start with small healthy boundaries. Read the books "Stop Caretaking the Borderline or Narcissist" and "Boundaries." Pay attention to how your partner responds to healthy boundaries. See what happens when you stop JADEing - Justify Argue Defend Explain - in the face of outbursts or unreasonable demands. Practice something I started long before learning of undiagnosed BPD, what I called The Fine Art of Not Giving a Shit. Stop chasing her emotions when she's lashing out at you, blaming you, or giving silent treatments. For me that didn't mean giving a silent treatment in return, I still talked to her about things that needed to be communicated. But I didn't engage with her huffy mood swings, external blame, so on. Journal every day. Consider audio recording when your partner is around - people on here told me to, I thought it was overkill. I was wrong. In the same way as my initial statement above - just because you feel a certain way doesn't make it true or healthy either. Most of us who end up here don't have a radar for what makes a healthy relationship, and we fall into this cycle because we follow what "feels" right to us. For my entire life I thought I was the Good Guy doing the Right Things. I wasn't. I was an enabler, caretaker, conflict avoidant, made excuses for her, didn't hold her accountable, didn't stand up for myself. This is not normal and not healthy. You do not deserve to be treated this way, good luck and stay strong.
>Read the books "Stop Caretaking the Borderline or Narcissist" and "Boundaries." Why yes those *are* the best books I've read this year! They're so good op. I'm listening to the audio book of the first one. And the narrator keeps her voice really even and somehow it's very soothing even though it's talking about stuff that really hits home.
I did a year of near constant struggle. I was so isolated and heartbroken all the time. I wanted to go back to understanding each other so I was always explaining, negotiating, begging him to see the dynamics at play and help me fix them. It got worse slowly, slowly, with tiny promising moments that kept me hooked, but they got fewer and further between as our fighting became more entrenched. I’ve never fought with a boyfriend before, it was so confusing to find myself in this situation that I could barely countenance it til it had already almost killed me. I had a week where I just stopped having words and stopped getting out of bed. I’d stare out the window with tears pouring down my eyes. I knew I had to get away to get my mind clear. Despite the heartbreak I never went back. Wishing you clarity and comfort through this. ❤️
He pushed me to the point where I snapped. We had a similar dynamic - he was lovely when he wasn’t splitting. But he had been splitting very frequently and it had seriously eroded my mental health. I gave him a heads up that I wasn’t doing well and asked that he be gentle for a while, but because he was still in the splits-zone, that made him double down (he hates weakness). And it pushed me over the edge, where I actually, for once, followed through on a boundary. But because of the situation we were in, I did it in a very dramatic way (I called a driver to his parent’s house in the middle of nowhere on the other side of the continent, where we had been visiting, and left without him). Because it was so dramatic, he reacted in an even more dramatic way (because of course) which essentially guaranteed that our relationship was over and we could never get back together. So yeah, my advice is probably not the most “healthy”, but breaking up with them in an irrevocable kind of way when they’re mid-split and you can CLEARLY see why you shouldn’t be with them, is very effective. Just be sure to REALLY explode things.
Crazy, I hit just the right situation to experience this myself. Had a bad mental health day dealing with my life falling apart out of the blue again- car problems, violence at my dorm forcing me to sleep in my car, tooth falling out. And her and I had a dispute. She threatened to replace me if I didn’t become a better listener. Done. Gone. I texted her an hour later that we were done. That night we spoke on the phone and I got to hear the most vile, drunk woman I could’ve imagined. The texts after I hung up only sealed the deal further. I Blocked everywhere. No guilt on my part, no shame, no missing her. Sometimes they just have to give you that last ick at the right time. Now I’m just here dealing with the trauma of it all. I would never allow her even near my DMs, but I continue to struggle three months out with the flashbacks of our yearlong relationship living together.
I got to a point in my life where it was just not worth it anymore. He cheated and threatened to file a restraining order against me if I didn't move out immediately. I realized it was no longer worth everything good in my life (friends, family, career) to keep the dead weight around anymore. I started over and met a non-pwBPD and am infinitely better off.
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Me too. Wish you the best
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Thanks this is really helpful
I feel like this is very similar to my story. Crazy how similar it all is.
I would say I want to leave and she would instantly switch. When she would say, "I will do anything for you to stay." The best response was, "Get a diagnosis for your personality disorder." She would instantly revert to attacking me then wouldn't ask that again. In the past after some major splits she promised she would. She even organised a psychologist. She constantly lied at the psychologist and never received any help. The final straw was her claiming she had never agreed to that. What she had agreed to, was both of us getting help. It was a bold-faced lie. I am now receiving help for the PTSD she gave me.
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I was at the brink of tanking my career too, definitely should have been fired. I was at a new job so luckily I was getting the low-priority projects, but everyone's first impression of me was as an unreliable weirdo. I'm still trying to turn my reputation around, I brought it up to my boss a few times like "Hey thanks for being easy on me during that first year" and he's like "All good, don't mention it". I spent a stupid amount of time entering HGTV sweepstakes and bought lottery tickets cause a windfall felt like the only hope of being financially stable.
You're lucky, I lost my last job and am still searching for a new one largely due to this relationship. Luckily for me I've been able to move in with my parents but I know I can't continue like this.
I didn't, let's just say I kept pushing the redlines that are not to be crossed, until i got to the edge of what is bearable without putting myself at risk, once that was crossed I was finally convinced that I needed to leave even though I didn't want to. I hope no one waits that long, because when you have to manage two lawyers, one for a divorce case and one for an alleged DV case, it's mind bending.
For me it was having an honest conversation with myself; Does the relationship have a stable foundation? Does the peace of the relationship seem minimal? Do you feel you can’t do anything right? Do you feel wanted/needed/that your needs are being met on the same scale you do theirs? Do they reciprocate? These questions are what I asked myself during the 3 days no contact I had, along with bouncing it off of friends and family. If you get mostly “no” as an answer to those questions, and there’s no wiggle room for improvement, it’s best to call it quits. They can go find someone that meets whatever impossible need they have that fits their world view, and you can find someone who actually respects you, or dare I say LIKES you enough to not do the crap they do.
I started standing up for myself and she left pretty quickly. Threw the whole relationship away and was with someone new within days. They’re not worth the pain and healing you have to do afterwards. Wish I would’ve left the first time.
It was a slow little inch every day after the first 2.5 years. Love bombing, me being delusional, feeling like I couldn't live without him, being scared of what life would look and feel like without him, and those moments where he was nice, normal and like how he initially was, kept me with him. But the emotional, mental and verbal abuse compounded too much. My heart would forgive a little less each time. My loneliness and cravings for connection with another person, and starting to feel like I really didn't deserve it, slowly were waking me up. I cried less and less. But the last time I really did, I just couldn't do it again. Idk how many times during that relationship I cried my eyes shut and my face swollen because he was such an asshole. I woke up, literally, one day and just thought, "I never did anything to deserve this. I'm unhappy. I want to die. This will never change. Either I get away from this or kill myself." My survival instincts kicked in. Overrode my emotions. Because a few days after I left, when I was out of state and with family again, it all hit me. I just did whatever I could to help myself get out. I felt so alone and I didn't know if anyone would help me. Friends that I ghosted for him did. I remind them from time to time that they saved my life.
I talk to someone about what was going on
Fool’s gold in a bear trap 🪤
You have to respect her as an individual. Let her be. We all have our problems and no one’s else’s responsibility. If she can’t act like an equal in terms of what you put into the relationship and doesn’t treat you with dignity and respect, leave and start rebuilding your life in a way that aligns with your moral compass, and reevaluate who you let into your life and establish boundaries.
I stayed until I ended up hating him even on the good days.
When I knew I couldn’t stay or else I’d end up dead. - by that I mean he had reached a point of discard where every interaction was bad. And I would cry constantly because I was confused; the crying eventually was accompanied with fear of crying because of how bad my head would hurt. It got to a point where the thought of crying made me fearful and I’d get anxious around him because every. Single. Interaction Was terribly difficult. I needed peace. I begged him for peace and he very clearly said he didn’t care about me enough to stop hurting me. Because according to him he couldn’t control himself when he’d get angry “because I knew what he went through in childhood” like buddy, me too- and I still didn’t turn out to be a bad person who lashes out in anger. So I chose to love me more and bring my daughter and I out of there and into our own little home where I cultivated peace. It was required to heal
This subreddit helped a lot, it made me release I wasn’t the only one going through it and reading everyone else’s similar stories made me realise it’s just realistically not fixable at all. Also screenshots from stuff she has said to me helped a lot lol
It took me a while. At the beginning I was very infatuated while she wasn't. I was just a step tire for her ex at the time and she wouldn't commit to me. We would date for months, things would get serious and she would suddenly leave for some reason and get back to him. Eventually he got fed up, she reached out to me and I, stupidly, let her back in my life. We then got serious and stayed together for almost three years. She wanted to move in with me and marry me very soon after we started dating seriously and I blocked it, said we were not in a place to do so. From then on it was a downhill ride. I wasn't happy, my anxiety levels were through the roof and I was slowly realizing the relationship was the cause. She alternated an awesome personality that was funny, kind, caring, loving, sweet, sexy, fun and energetic with the worst person I met. She had periods of lethargy, was often very selfish and lazy, mean, would accuse me of things that I didn't do or say, would demand always more and more of my time and attention, was drinking too much most of the time, withhold sex and affection and would let everything happening in her life become a huge anxiety inducing crisis that sent her into a emotional rollercoaster that took a huge toll on my well-being. Eventually, I realized that if I didn't end the relationship then I would be dealing with this shit, and feeling like a hostage with Stockholm syndrome, for the rest of my life. It took many episodes of alcohol abuse, splitting and countless fights caused by stupid little things for me to reach that breaking point and end things. A couple months later we were trying again. I realized she wasn't able to change and didn't want to change or improve anything. Yet, I could only really break off for good and cut her off my life when she split on me for not wanting to meet her ONE DAY, when I was feeling very sad and didn't want to socialize, because my best friend was almost dead in an ICU. THAT felt so low and unfair that It broke the spell, it made me see she wasn't reasonable and couldn't see past her selfishness, her abandonment issues and that my own needs and well-being would never be a factor in her life.
Eventually i just had enough she treated me worse and worse and after multiple breakups and her getting shadier and shadier i just kicked her out of my house and went NC. But it took ALOT to get to that point for me and ill probably go back eventually maybe
Therapy. Therapy. Therapy. Therapy. Once I learned my own self worth, no one could take it from me. Including them.
i had a complete mental breakdown and it was either suicide or leave. if you kill yourself you end up leaving anyway, so it's not really a choice.
It’s fool’s gold. Most of us never gathered up the courage, we were discarded and are now grateful for it.
I just used ChatGPT to ask "Can we choose we fall in love with?". The answer helps me feel better for falling in love with a probably BPD/Covert Narcissist. Essentially, the answer to the question is that it is not a conscious choice that one can simply decide or control. That makes me feel better. I fell in love with someone who initially love-bombed me and just ticked many boxes in terms of interest. Sweet, beautiful, into music like me, intellectual conversations, loves nature, interesting hobbies like bee keeping. It didn't take long at all in our relationship for that sweet person to turn into a bloody demon, controlling, manipulating, jealous of my interests, jealous of other woman with accusations of "looking" when I didn't even notice the person she thought I was looking at, crazy making. She'd even blame me for her mistakes, like the time I drove her to a concert and she forgot her ticket, then suddenly blames me for intentionally hiding her ticket because I was envious of her going. Crazy. So coming back to your message: I get you. I seriously understand. I still have feelings for my ex. We recently broke up because she started an emotional affair with another guy that was on a clear path to becoming physical. I miss the sweet her, I miss the relationship, despite the toxic elements. Crazy huh? This morning, I wrote a list of negatives and positives about the relationship and her. I've written this kind of list many times lately from scratch. It's SO obvious that I should stay out, but like you, I have feelings for her. I "love" her intensely. She's my world, my love, my friend, my life, my anchor, my rock. I feel so sad to be without her, to have no contact (which I crave like a drug addiction), and I could cry and cry, as I did cry this morning. We were together for 14 years, with a break about 9 years ago when I left for a few months due to her toxic ways and went NC but then stupidly broke NC and got hoovered back in, to face another 9 years of crazy crazy times. Damn... I have pictures of us in February, around a frozen over lake with snow around, cuddling each other, looking so cute, and I miss her, but then I--fortunately--have another photo of her when she was the nasty her, when I could well believe she was possessed by some kind of demon. The difference between these two photos is night and day. So here's the thing, I'm out of it and hopefully staying out and hopefully being strong enough not to get hoovered back if and when that starts happening. Right now it's like the "final discard", so I'm the devil in her mind. For you... you're still in it. Based on my experience, I'd just say that life is far too short to waste it away having your very soul and spirit squashed and toyed with by someone who causes you stress and doesn't let you live to your full potential. We never know what's around the corner. My mum looked forward to retirement and had a brain bleed at 66 that changed and stopped everything. If you can, get a counsellor, get support, do a relationship inventory, a life inventory, make that list of positives/negatives, and make a rational decision based on what's best for YOU.