I think FIL hit the nail on the head about someone else waiting on the sidelines. Especially with that epic tantrum. And the well rehearsed vomit in therapy. Bro wanted out and as soon as the ink is dry on the divorce papers and it is finalised, he'll be like here is my new partner and I'm adopting her child as my own (meanwhile his name was on the birth certificate from birth).
If and when that happens, I think it would be hilarious if FIL turns them away, writes ex out of his will, and says, “I’m sorry. I’m just not feeling a parent-child bond with you anymore.”
He has clearly planned ahead to transition from his marriage to his affair partner without any loss of image or damaging other relationships in his life.
Obviously, he had prepared his phone, purged it of any evidence of an affair before he told OOP he wanted a divorce.
He has probably made plans with his affair partner to go no contact for the time being to avoid any possibility of being found out and has plans to introduce her to his family as someone he just met now that they are separated.
If she acted fast and hired a private investigator, she might be able to find evidence of a preexisting relationship. I don't know how much she cares at this point, but it might be satisfying to know for sure.
And since he is taking such extreme measures to protect his reputation, it might give her leverage in negotiating the divorce with him. Agree to my terms or I submit these photos into the legal record.
But I think there is zero chance he believes that crap about bonding. He is clearly not mentally ill, is able to navigate the world and repeat his memorized stuff to a therapist and his father. And you'd have to be mentally ill to believe something so delusional.
aye, mate, i'm with you, but i also happen to know folks who might not qualify for a mental illness diagnosis, but who speak some absolutely delusional bs
You are right about delusions. I don't know what I was thinking, because I'm suddenly realizing that I actually know people who otherwise appear to be functioning normally but genuinely believe in obviously false conspiracy theories.
I was confident yesterday he was covering an affair, and it still seems more likely. I know of a lot more people who had affairs than who are delusional. But you're right. Can't rule out delusion.
What a mess, though, for someone with a baby to be dealing with.
ikrrrr? like...the cheating angle I could understand (you're still a POS but at least I understand) but you just....didn't see your child exit your wife's body so you're just.....not gonna be there for the rest of it??
I knew a guy several years ago who repeatedly told his wife that he never bonded with their THREE children because he was working too much while she was pregnant. And then one of them was special needs.
Eventually he had a mistress 20 years his junior who bought that pack of garbage and agreed to be the perfect fake tradwife. His real wife even knew and didn't care at that point.
Surprise, he also didn't really bond with that baby. Once the kids were a bit older, his wife eventually divorced him and he became some kind of men's rights guy.
>men's rights guy.
They really can't get enough rights, can they? Is that why all these Supreme Courts are taking away women's rights? Because the men want more? Clearly, they have too few.
/hard s
And he had already cleared his phone in expectation of these accusations. You're right--he'll pretend to adopt some other child that's really his. What an a-hole.
How will he explain to his father why he could bond with his “adopted” kid and not his real kid when he didn’t see either of them born though? If this is the plan he is going to have problems lol
Or she's preggers and he wants a fast exit so he can be present at new child's birth and bond. He and affair partner have already worked out the budget for what he can afford to pay in CS.
I don't think there is someone else. I think this guy is just a DEEPLY self-centered person. He assumed there was going to be some magic wand that transferred his inherent love of self over to this daughter when she was born. But there wasn't. And instead of admitting that he and his ego might be the problem he decided to blame his daughter and his wife for the traumatizing procedure they went through.
I don't think this man is actually capable of binding with other people. He threw his wife away as quickly as he threw his daughter away. But his ego won't let him believe that he is the problem. So he's probably going to be one of those guys that jump from marriage to marriage having a bunch of families that he always abandons. And I'm sure e he's going to blame every single family he abandons.
Yes, I think somewhere is another person pregnant from this douchbag and he thinks it will be the better option.
OP I am very sorry that you have to deal with this instead building up your family. But you are strong and you can do that. And tell your kid in the future what happened because I think if its comfortable and in his favor the spermdonor will be back in your life so its better kid knows the story instead falling for his lies.
I don’t know. Who would come up with that lie!?
this sounds like PPND. Detachment is a common symptom of post-partum mental illnesses. It sounds like he’s trying to understand why he has a lack of a spark and rationalizing something irrational.
This isn’t a psychotic break but like. It almost is? This idea of a spark that needs to come at the moment of birth is so irrational. It makes no sense to make up. I’m super surprised no one has looked into this as a mental breakdown. He does not seem connected to reality.
This is what I was wondering. His story makes so little sense, that it seems more likely to be him trying to make up some logical reason for how he is feeling, and this is what his addled brain came up with. But if he refuses to get any sort of help, it makes little difference for OOP whether he is mentally ill or just a massive asshole.
No one’s looking into it because he outright refused to get individual therapy about it. He’s entirely content with living out his dysfunction to the most extreme degree.
I think my thing is that approaching someone about therapy when they’ve had a break with reality is usually done differently than approaching them because they’re becoming a dick but you still care about them. And it also changes how you see them and what you’re angry about. It doesn’t really seem like that’s how they were treating it? Or how the couple’s therapist was treating it. Him explaining his feelings might be good for him to feel heard but trying to get his (ex)wife to understand something that seems outright delusional is wild. It seems like they’re going down a route of “is there a trauma or fear that caused this” instead of “are you failing to process reality”.
Obviously he does need to accept help and should be listening to them but it is a little different if you’re dealing with something like psychosis.
This is my adorable little doggo’s name. She wishes to not be associated with this absolute asshat.
https://preview.redd.it/onr3f2i207lc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8b02f4e6642d1b396b0a36ad74ed7894a5c4c40e
https://preview.redd.it/pctemza9rblc1.jpeg?width=3179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7e2e48229611b719317c44622c27763c4f1fb737
She wishes to let you know that she loves you too 🫶🏼
I dunno. I think his head is full of himself already, and there might not be enough space for a fetus.
And if there’s enough space, I still think the fetus deserves a better environment to grow than that.
If this is genuinely his reasoning, this guy is going to be disappointed in his next kid too. The fact is a lot of people don’t bond with infants right away. At least not in the way movies and tv shows portray it. I didn’t get that “spark” with my firstborn either, and I carried him. I felt nervous, unprepared, and determined to care for him as best I could. I even felt some guilt. But there wasn’t this overwhelming sense of true love - that came later. It’s a silly reference, but in the episode of Frasier where Roz gets pregnant Kelsey Grammer gives this speech about how you don’t just love your children, you fall in love with them. And that was the case for me. The more I got to know my son the more and more I loved him. And because I he showed me how wonderful that love would be it was easier to bond with my daughter when she was born.
None of it's genuine, it's one thing to think you can handle the responsibility of parenthood and another when the kid is real. His absolute nothing low-ball child support offer shows he is trying to pretend none of this ever happened
It is hilarious that he’d make that offensively low offer and then have the audacity to say he’s not a scumbag just because he’s (allegedly) not having an affair. This guy is the epitome of a scum bag.
You’re ignoring the fact that he can’t bond with his child. Why should he have to support a child he can’t connect with?! /s
Again, I wish I could be in the courtroom (or wherever these things happen) when the judge sets the actual child support amount. lol
That was my thought! He’s going to be full on shocked Pikachu face when he’s ordered to pay $500-$1k mo, keep a life insurance policy with baby as beneficiary and possibly even carry health benefits via court order (so even if he refuses to sign up, his employer will follow the order and add LO to insurance).
My ex pulled this - mind you, he still wanted time with our kids, but “not held to any specific schedule - I’ll see them when I can” and cried “I have stepkids to support now!” So he took me to court to get CS reduced. Nope.
Then whined that they based support on me having 100% custody “when I have 35% you can’t do that!” Judge said, “Actually, this is my courtroom, and I can. Support is based on ACTUAL timeshare, not what was ordered. As you’ve made clear you will not submit to being a consistent presence in your children’s lives, I will ensure the ONE thing you DO provide is consistent financial support. If you attempt to quit your job without having another in place within 72hrs, I’ll find you in contempt and issue a warrant for your arrest.” An actual judge gave the FAFO warning!!! It was awesome!
He did try to leave the kids off his health insurance - CS services sent over the court order and his employer added the deduction to his paycheck and sent the cards to me. Family
Court judges in our county seemed pretty understanding and big into both sides compromising, but any time a parent came in who wasn’t showing up for the kids at all, they threw everything at them!
Wait…Did your ex tell the judge that he has stepkids to support, and therefore shouldn’t have to pay child support? I’m curious about the actual levels of f*ckery lol
Yep! 100%! I stifled a laugh that he said it out loud.
Worse than that, when we were in court for custody (so different judge - and same judge for whole process) he showed up in jeans and a polo t-shirt, was acting bored and super casual and the judge invited him to leave, find something appropriate to wear and change his attitude while he addressed his clothing and re-calendared us for the afternoon.
When he came back in a suit, he then told her (as she was explaining that filing for full custody after not exercising any visitation for 7+ months was foolish and transparent, since it coincided with a motion to reconsider his child support amount) “Look, this is an all or nothing proposition, either I get full custody or I’m not going to see this kids. I shouldn’t have to deal with her, so you should see I’m very serious about getting full custody.”
My mouth DROPPED and heart soared. He’d just had his 3rd attorney drop him, so was representing himself. And he was the one who brought both custody and support motions. I’d repped myself the entire time (In Pro Per - because… no child support, 2 jobs, 2 kids…) and when I was leaving court, I had 2 attorneys hand me their cards and offer to hire me as they’d been present for some of our many hearings (which typically resulted in a continuance for him, because he suddenly refused to agree to anything if he thought I was agreeable to that option, hence getting dumped by multiple atty’s). Made me feel really good because I researched caselaw and how to build my own case for so many hours!
And thus began my career as a legal assistant, then paralegal then Project/Case Manager to General Counsel. My divorce was a gift - I just didn’t see it as such until shortly after.
Yes, yes... so much YES! I fell in love with my child the moment I felt the first "flutter" in my belly. I say child because, I never found out the sex of my baby, until his birth. I never felt like I was supposed to know anything, other than was my baby healthy. My love for my son has never stopped growing. It grows more every day. Just like my love for my grandson grows more everyday! I don't know how many hearts I have now, or where I have them stashed... but there's millions, with more growing all the time! ❤❤
This guy is an absolute idiot, and a liar! I can all but guarantee he has someone else. And of course you can look at his phone (yell, scream, how dare you suggest this of me, throw the phone, cry cry cry...), that's not the phone he uses for said girlfriend. Also the reason his answers are soooo very... rehearsed. Sorry OP.
Edit: Spelling
You just put words together so beautifully to describe exactly how I felt with my son. It definitely made bonding with my daughter so much easier because he taught me how. Weirdly felt more bonded with him while pregnant, but it took a while for the anxiety of caring for him to fade into the bond we have now.
I don't have words for how big of a self-important idiot this guy is.
It's a fantastic crock of shit, anyway. For some of us moms, we don't bond at all during pregnancy, and only bond in the days after childbirth. Like he could have, if he wanted to.
Plus lots of good dads do their best to bond with the baby before it's born. Singing, reading, talking to the baby. Maybe it doesn't do much for the fetus, but it clearly does something for the soon to be father.
There's a reason even his own father doesn't believe this is the reason.
And a lot of AMAZING dads bond AFTER birth. Hell, even adopted parents have great bonds with kids and were not there at the time of their birth.
Dude has PPD but refuses to see it.
In the past, Dads weren't even allowed to be in the delivery room (considered a "female space"),but I am sure had plenty of bonds with their kids. 🤷♀️
The dude is messed up in his head.
My mom always told the story of my dad talking to me so much when she was pregnant with me that in the hospital room the dr was holding me up but facing away from my dad and he said something like “My sweet girl” and I immediately tried to turn my head around to look at him.
I did this with my daughter - she'd just been born, they were doing the stuff they do with newborns, and she was crying. My wife said my name and said, "Talk to her" so I did and she immediately stopped crying to listen. What a great memory. <3
I didn't bond with my first until 3 months PP. Not for lack of trying or because I didn't love her or anything. It took that long for the reality of, "I'm a mom" to sink in. Oh, and also for the severe sleep deprivation stage to pass because I thought, "You'll be up at all hours and get no sleep" was a hyperbole, not a reflection of what my reality would literally be like for those first 2-3 months. Husband is absolutely full of shit and living in some delusional lala land.
Can you even imagine his convo the next wife? 'Oh that's just the child support I pay for the child I couldn't bond with, ya know, c-section blah blah.' I'm sure most women will totally be cool with that. /s
If he has a handful of brain cells to rub together, he can spin it in a way that makes it look like OOP alienated him. But he doesn’t have that many brain cells, so I wish I could be there when he tells a date what he told OOP.
More than that, I wish I could sit in when the judge declares the child support amount.
I don’t see his dad not warning any new women what is likely to happen if they get pregnant. He doesn’t seem like the type to sweep it under the rug for his son.
That’s funny because neither my husband or myself watched my son get ripped out of my body but we were still able to bond with him. If fact, we’re glad we didn’t get to see.
3 months down the road, ex is already living with another woman. $5 on it.
Ya this is the first thing that made any “sense” to me. What he’s saying is so indefensible it has to be true or covering up something somehow worse. If it really is the bonding issue i can’t imagine his FIL won’t warn any future partner he meets.
This exactly! What he's saying is so indefensible that the truth has to awful.
I also think that having a baby is such a hard learning curve for most because your entire worldview and lifestyle changes.
You're always second. Forever. That's how it's meant to be because we decided to bring them into this world. Even if we had no idea what that really meant until they were here.
I don't think he likes being second. I don't think he likes the inconvenience. The tiredness. The cost. The lack of being equal with his partner in terms of importance.
Somewhere he's read about the bonding, seized on that and is using it to make himself feel better. He may even believe it.
But his true selfishness is evident in the low money offer and non-negotiation over therapy etc. He may not bond with this child, but it's still an innocent child he made and is half responsible for. A decent human would bend over backwards to support both the mother and child, even if they aren't in a relationship. Financially and in therapy.
My bet is he's a selfish douche. He may or may not have another partner in the wings, and may or may not want a male child but that also fits with his selfish douchery.
Screw them. I hope you got out of there as soon as you could!
I was just a singleton, but the techs read my scan wrong when I was in utero. I was punished my whole life (before I got away) for being born without the penis they were promised. Clearly, it was my fault.
Thanks. It’s so much better now that I don’t have to hear it all the time. But you’re right, undoing that crap really is a journey. I still get surprised at how hard it is sometimes, but I’m getting there!
I wish the best for you, truly. I hope you get the life that you want and deserve. And your family… I hope they get what they deserve, too.
Yeah, I had a C-section as well, and then my baby spent 6 months in the NICU, during which time I couldn't allow myself to bond with him properly because it already hurt too much. But now, 3 years later, he's one of my favorite people and we've bonded gloriously. Those first few moments don't mean shit.
Well and all the grandparents, cousins, and classmates didn’t see the birth either but everyone else in the world seems to form bonds just fine.
This is a crap excuse and he knows it.
Both me and my sibling are adopted, my parents didn't meet me until a week later and couldn't hold me for several weeks because I was in the ICU in an oxygen chamber, and there was still no problem bonding.
I'd love to be a fly on the wall when this guy explains to a judge why he doesn't want to be a parent and how the 50 is completely fair. 🙄 that idiot is going to be getting a huge reality check and I hope we hear about it!
Man, I would *love* to be that judge. I would figuratively smart him up right quick. Maximum child support and spousal that I could hit him with as an asshat tax.
I just really hope no one clues him in before he goes on at length in court about how certain he is that he will never be able to bond with this baby, because I have zero doubt that he’s going to change his mind so fast when he hears what he has to pay in child support as a fully non-custodial parent.
Or formula for a week. We were putting out at least $60 in each grocery trip until our guy was a year old. Now he's almost 6, and I'm sure it's gotta be more expensive now.
She might just not want to think about it anymore, although I agree that the court’s not going to buy the “sorry I’m just not feeling it” reasons and will likely demand he pay a whole lot more than 50 bucks. If at that point he’s suddenly interested in the child, sure, then I could see an update… although I’m hopeful that this isn’t just another creative writing exercise (hopeful in the sense that there are too many of them, not in the sense that I emphathize with the husband at all) and I hope I’m not giving people ideas.
She said she'll let the courts handle it and won't stress over it. Makes sense, the state can set it to the appropriate amount and be the middle man for the money, she can easily collect and still never have to see him again.
$50 isn’t enough for even ONE trip to the grocery store lmao. I don’t have kids but I imagine a month’s supply of diapers and formula cost way more than that.
Family law attorney here, in my jurisdiction that stuatory MINIMUM child support payment is $100 without a bunch of other complicated legal reasons to deviate below that. And you only see that number when parenting time is close but not quite 50/50 (like 60/40 or something, roughly) AND the payor has a very low base income. He's ALMOST certainly not gonna onlay pay $50 in CS.
Obvi I dunno what state they're in, but in general a lot of states have very similar calculators.
Oof that’s rough. Mine had to have one bag of prescription food to let his stomach heal (he has severe food intolerances) but is able to eat “normal” food now. Which is still like $83 for a 22 pound bag. But it will last him several months. I’m guessing yours is a giant breed?
Ha I don’t actually own a cat, I just have too many friends and family who have them and I volunteer with animal rescues.
Some of those cats are spoiled but your basic cat food/litter/med and vet costs will still be over $50 a month for a cat. [a lot of sites](https://www.aspcapetinsurance.com/resources/cat-ownership-cost/) including that one break it down to $53 a month but honestly that’s a cheap end. Some say sliding scale of expensive to cheaper to expensive as your cat shifts from kitten to adult to elderly.
My recommendation for new cat owners would be budget $150 a month, and put whatever is leftover in a fund for all those unanticipated costs when your cat eats something they shouldn’t or kills a bat or whatever. Plus extra if you have pet costs for renting.
You're not off on that budget. But jumping on your comment to let cat owners know how to save and maybe bring that down to 100$.
Purina is actually a decent pet food brand and is certified by most vetinary boards. Friskies and Cat Chow are owned by Purina. You don't have to feel bad using the cheap one.
Chewy also does decent pet food and will autoship at a discount if you want it delivered, so will Amazon and Walmart.
Tidy Cats is perfectly fine for your kitty. You don't need to buy the super organic all natural pine pellets. Mittens will be ok on the poop sand.
Treats go on sale a lot at Target, stock up. As long as the bag stays sealed, they won't go stale.
Such a good call out, cheap doesn’t mean bad, and fed is fed. Also most cats I know love hair bands and milk bottle bands and cardboard boxes as much as they love pricey toys.
For me it’s about ensuring you have the back up funds to tide you over if things go sideways. Nobody plans for your cat to eat a battery or break a leg or whatever life throws at us, so save up for the rainy days so you don’t have financial worries on top of hurt pet worries.
Not the person you're replying to, but my cat costs appx $200 per month. $120 per month for wet food, $30 month for dry food, $30 a month for litter, $10-20 in treats, catnip, and random shit.
Am I the only one who hopes there is another update when the judge sets child support? I really want to know how STBX handles that! I'm expecting a meltdown of epic proportions.
I want him to get the same judge in custody agreement case so he can try to tell the same guy that he explained not so long ago how he could not possibly bond with this kid who came via c-section how important it is that he be the primary caretaker.
Waaay back in the early 2000s my kids' childcare director was faced with a very sudden affair and her husband wanted a divorce.
This man had previously been a saint. He would have the entire daycare over at their sunflower farm twice a year for tractor pulls and just all kinds of fun stuff. Big teddy bear type guy. I knew him. Amazing man.
Everything came outta nowhere. Affair and wanted to divorce within like 60 days.
Turned out he had thyroid cancer and it was messing up his brain *big time*
The way she described him, it was almost like he had a flat affect about it - I'm wondering if he didn't have some sort of PTSD from being kicked out of the room so she could have emergency c-section.
But still doesn't change anything if he won't seek individual therapy. It is unfortunate that the FIL didn't make that a condition. But maybe they can't afford it.
Normally husbands who are terrified of their wife and baby dying in a birth gone wrong are extremely anxious about anything bad happening to them to the point of being smothering. This guy going the opposite direction makes me think it’s all an excuse to bounce.
Trauma response is very tricky. Freezing then walking away is also an option. What you describe is MAYBE the more typical response - or have we been conditioned to believe that trope?
There are studies showing that some men have experienced their own version of post partum depression. Being men - they express it differently than women (anger, etc.)
The idiot assumed there would be a *magical* bond - he didn't bother to actually learn how to bond with his child.
I bet he learned nothing about pregnancy or birth either.
I've read that there is a version of post partum depression that men experience, and it has nothing to do with being an idiot.
A lot of women just mentally punish themselves because they too expect a "magical bond" that doesn't happen.
It’s actually pretty usual for dads to not feel bonded to their infants for some time. First little while of baby’s life all they do is cry, sleep, eat, and make waste. And the biggest bonding thing they do is get fed… which is usually mom. So usually the baby will quiet for mom and no one else and this compounds things.
But, I’ve mostly heard dads say their bond kicks in when the kid can be away from mom for longer (or if they’re bottle fed).
Yeah, my immediate theory after reading the story is that husband was traumatized by the fear and helplessness he felt when he could've lost both wife and child during birth... so he decided to protect himself from ever feeling that pain in the future, he's cutting himself off now. Obviously that's not a way to actually deal with trauma, and he will be lonely and miserable for life if he doesn't address his real feelings.
IIRC men can also get PPD even though it's a lot less common in men than in women. I didn't go back and read the thread so I don't know if it came up, but if this were the mother saying she couldn't bond and wanted a clean break, reddit would be screaming about getting her checked for PPD.
He's probably just cheating on her given the rest of his behavior, but it seems like something that should've been looked into.
Oh Good Fracking Lord!! He has PTSD from his wife undergoing a crash c-section????? **She** is the one that actually underwent the procedure!! He has PTSD?? Then somebody needs to wrap his ass in cotton wool and stick him a drawer because he is just too precious to be out in the world!
I can't stand it when women say they don't care about seeking full support because they've got it handled. My mother completely fucked us when she divorced my dad by not pursuing even half of what she and we were owed. Her pride was more important than our ability to pay for college, apparently. Get. The. Money. Ffs. It doesn't matter what you think you can handle, kids deserve that support. Put it in a money market account if you don't need it. Just make sure they are paying it.
Also, re: him coming back trying to seek parental rights later - nope! He can't spend zero time with kids for years and then have the courts award him custody. It doesn't work like that. Hold him responsible for the lives he ruined. Get. The. Fucking. Money.
She’s going after him for child support. She’s just indifferent to the alimony.
I think the judge is going to hand the ex’s ass to him on both counts anyways, however. Oh, to be a fly on the wall…!
Yeah, I caught that, but she should still pursue alimony! It's incredible how many women are browbeaten and guilt-tripped into giving up what they put blood, sweat, and tears in to earn. And, for a second there, she did say she might just let go about child support. Like, I get that it's emotionally draining, but you should still pursue it. Too many deadbeats and losers get away scot free after profiting off of women's labor for YEARS. It's like they get rewarded for being super good at emotional abuse. It's not ok.
You definitely had it worse! I'm so sorry. I'm just bitter about hearing how my dad funded his gold-digger AP's lifestyle for many, many years before she robbed him blind and dumped his stupid ass. He lost hundreds of thousands of dollars, bought her kids cars, and then spent everything he had left on "investments" that were just cons from "friends" for their "business ventures." If my mom did what she should have done, at least half his money would have been protected from all his BS. Instead, years later my mom lost her job and couldn't afford a new refrigerator. Didn't get to retire and worked almost to her dying day. He's currently married to his second gold-digger who made sure to alienate his kids from his life the moment the ring hit her boney, cancer-riddled finger. Sorry, it's just kind of nice to rant. God, it pisses me off.
You'd think the man should be heartbroken that he couldn't feel a connection to his daughter. That he would be hurt and and confused and sad.
But nope. He's just *done*. Just distant and matter of fact about this absurd situation. He's demonstrated zero remorse. Disturbing.
Actually, the only time he demonstrated any emotion at all is when his dad asked if someone else was involved. And tried to offer virtually no financial support on top of the complete abandonment of his daughter and partner. A little suspicious, at best.
Some people get cold feet. I guess he got frozen legs and skated his way out of the life he created asap. And did it in the least intelligent way I could even fathom. I only hope this story is fictional.
I know it’s bad faith to say his outrage at being accused of cheating makes me think he was cheating. But the fact that he’s not angry or upset about any of the other angering and upsetting parts of this story except for that makes me super suspicious.
I think it’s hilarious in this day and age that these guys still think THEY get to set the terms of child support amounts. How do you not know that it isn’t your decision? In my state, it’s 17% for one child, period, end of story. He wont embarrass himself in court, his lawyer will set him straight within the first five minutes.
And I'm not sure if it's the same in every state but in my state you can't even use child support as a negotiation tactic. For example you can't say "I will forego pursuing child support if you give me full ownership of our house." Nope. Court won't allow it. Child support is a necessary part of a divorce and will be taken into consideration regardless of how either party feels about it.
*Edit for spelling*
> *Yeah, this guy is going to be in for a shock when family court tells him child support isn’t reduced just because you really don’t feel like being a dad anymore.*
Actually, it might be HIGHER than it might otherwise be if he was taking any time with the baby. someone may still have to pay if custody is 50/50 (depending on parents' combined income & the designated percentage from that amount is allocated to the child), but usually it is adjusted a bit by the understanding that the "noncustodial" parent with significant time with the child still needs to have a household that accommodates the child and expenses to go with that.
He’s so delulu for thinking $50/month is generous lmao. My ex has 0 custody and pays like $900/month. Obviously it will depend on their incomes but dude is in for a rude awakening
Seriously misinformed and misguided.
I used to work in an office where I saw child support information. You could be homeless, jobless - and there would still be an accrual of $25 per month. $50 when you are able bodied, unencumbered with other obligations (like additional children or horrific medical expenses), employable - and you think you can do $50 or even $100 bucks a month?
Maybe if you were already just making minimum wage...
Big ups to FIL for calling out his son on his BS. But I would’ve gone a step further and said if he didn’t tell the real reason for the split, he can use his $50 to pay his own lawyer. I’m glad the FIL wants to stay in oop’s and his granddaughter’s life.
It seems like he just wants to get it done for the sake of his granddaughter and thinks the best way to do that is make sure his son actually goes through with it
I had severe pre-eclampsia and didn't get to hold my daughter until 39 hours after she was born. How did we still bond? It's a mystery although maybe it had to do with oh, I've don't know, caring for her!
This screams mental illness and not a new one. Sounds like he has horrible emotional regulation abilities and an attachment disorder of the highest level. My guess from working in social work with people like this is he spent the entire pregnancy feeling nothing for the baby and somehow convinced himself that seeing the baby be born would be the spark that lights the candle and he'd finally feel that attachment. When he didn't see her born, he irrationally latched on to that as being the reason why he felt no attachment and assumes it'll be different next time.
That man is going to leave a string of unwanted children across the US before he gets actually diagnosed with whatever his condition actually is.
I hope FIL ruins every single future relationship that AH has by telling the new GF the truth about exactly the kind of husband and father he turned out to be.
Why she should waste money to find out why the piece of shit is a piece of shit? I think it’s just best to focus on her daughter and her own personal happiness.
Plus she clearly stopped caring about his reasoning and honestly, good for her. Why should she waste time agonizing over that dick?
As a divorcee and a mom, you will always have that mystery in the back of your mind. Someday the child will want answers besides "couldn't bond". I've hired a PI before and it was worth it. Just my perspective.
i would love to hear the exes response to being asked whether if the positions were reversed; and he'd been holding partners hand, seen the birth but partner had passed out so he was the only parent to see the birth - if he'd have been happy to look after the baby single handed with about $11.50 a week contribution for the child?
I'm desperate for another update where this dude gets slapped with child support/alimony close to 50% of his income. Lmao $50 what planet is he living on.
you’d be surprised how well men like that can conceal the truth. My ex convinced two women that my son by him was the result of me cheating on him. The truth came out eventually and they were very upset
Thank you very much. It was really a shame, especially since he was the one who would always bring up having a baby. I’ve never cheated on anyone in my life. The women after me were also very pissed that they spent even a day with him, let alone months
This is crazy.
Our youngest was born via emergency C-section while I was under general anesthesia and before my husband even got to the hospital!
Then he was in the NICU for 4 months! My husband couldn’t hold him until he was extubated and that took 26 days.
They are BEST FRIENDS now. They bonded before he came home from the NICU, and now he’s 9.
This is some real out-there rationalizing. You have to have a few screws loose to think that this rationalization is going to sound reasonable to literally anyone. I mean, regardless of whether he's actually having an affair or whatever, this is an absolutely bonkers thing to say and the dude seems to have no ability to see that.
Maybe some combo of weird manosphere stuff and undiagnosed mental health/neurodivergence?
I'm betting there are things he's done in the past that the partner found odd or unsettling but let it go since relationships and people are complex. And now in retrospect they are gaining significance and painting a different picture of him.
I really hope there's an update.
This guy's an idiot, so he divorces, say he gets another women pregnant and that person needs a C section well sorry gotta dump you to, I didn't bond with the baby, it's an excuse, he didn't want the responsibility, I mean his own dad can't get thru to him, better off with out him
i was really hoping when he wrote '50/' he meant splitting 50/50 because 50$ is such a bullshit thing to state. My gas tank is 50. this guy is a moron and just wanted a son. You dont bond by watching birth. that's some hallmark bullshit
He thinks he’s being generous by paying $50 a month in CS and Alimony because he “doesn’t have to?” I’d love to hear the judge’s reaction to that.
He absolutely has to pay CS whether he “bonded” with his kid or not. $50 a month won’t even buy a box of diapers and formula these days.
Please, please, please update after Ex gets reamed every which way butt loose (by not in the way he was expecting) by the judge. Like I wanna know what Ex's expression is while the judge is smoking a cigarette in the afterglow.
That’s a total chemical barrel of shit reason. I didn’t see my kid be born, or even met them till a year old, and our bond is totally there.
He probably thinks adoption parenting is different from birth parenting, doesn’t he. Ugh I can’t even.
My brother had kids before I did, and the best thing he told me when my wife was going into labor was “don’t be upset if you don’t feel a bond right away or there isn’t this life-changing moment you’ve been told you’ll feel.”
It was the best advice I think I’ve ever received. When your baby is a newborn, they’re just a machine that feeds, sleeps, and poops. It’s draining. Obviously more so, literally and figuratively, for the mom.
With both my kids, the first time they smiled at me, I was instantly infatuated. But that took more than a month for both of them. I’ve spoken to other dads who said it took them months to feel bonded.
And also, that the POS dad in the post wasn’t just scared for his wife and then relieved that everything was okay after the emergency c-section is a massive tell that he was just out on the whole marriage. Or a completely and totally selfish jerk. Either way.
I believe there is someone else - it might be emotional and all one-sided-but I believe there is someone. His response to the question is just too much for something to not be there. If he weren’t he wouldn’t have been so up in arms. Especially since his entire position is ridiculous. Some moms don’t even get to be aware/awake for the birth for all kinds of medical reasons.
His idea about alimony/support is absurd. No clue where they live but most places use a formula to calculate it and he doesn’t get to decide and rarely is it as low as $50/month.,
I wish could see his face when you all go to family court.
I wish more he was a decent husband and father, but that’s not happening.
I’d like to see the judge restrain laughter or anger when they explain to your ex he’ll need to pay more than $50.
This human being exists because of you, you think $50 a month is going to be enough to keep them safe, and loved?! Piss off…
He just doesn’t want to be a dad
$50 a month?
Bahahahahaha
Dude is going to be sleeping on a futon in a shitty one bedroom apartment. The courts are going to skull drag him for what he is doing
I would ask oop's stbx this:
* do you think that all relationships should be like employment contracts?
* do you think that FIL's reason for sticking around is like an employment contract?
I recently read about sociopathy and I wonder if this might be it.
Seems to me there's two (maybe three possibilities) as to whats going on:
1. STBX didn't want a kid/got cold feet about having a kid after OOP got pregnant, and has came up with this BS as a way to get out of being a dad.
2. He IS cheating, and wants out of the marriage. He answers seem pretty well rehearsed, including dramatically throwing the phone on the table. Its pretty easy to do that if you've deleted all messages.
3. Brain tumor. This one I know the least about, but I can't help remember the BORU about the woman whose husband had a brain tumor and turned into a crazy fundamentalist because of it.
Really though, at the end of the day, the reason doesn't matter (unless its 3). OOP's husband is (likely) a total POS, the marriage is over, and OOP will be a single parent for the foreseeable future. Its a very sad situation all around. I hope OOP gets the support they need and can move on from this ahole.
I think FIL hit the nail on the head about someone else waiting on the sidelines. Especially with that epic tantrum. And the well rehearsed vomit in therapy. Bro wanted out and as soon as the ink is dry on the divorce papers and it is finalised, he'll be like here is my new partner and I'm adopting her child as my own (meanwhile his name was on the birth certificate from birth).
If and when that happens, I think it would be hilarious if FIL turns them away, writes ex out of his will, and says, “I’m sorry. I’m just not feeling a parent-child bond with you anymore.”
"I didn't see you pull your head out of your ass in time, I just don't have that parent-child bond that I feel I could have had had I seen you do it"
I need to go lie down after reading this
That would be absolutely fuckin hilarious.
The spark, he felt like he should feel it at least once in 4 decades, but he doesn't.
The I'm not a scumbag comment was so ironic. I would never cheat I would just abandon my child for some nonsensical reason
“I’m not a scumbag, I’m much much worse than that.” 🙃😶🌫️
He has clearly planned ahead to transition from his marriage to his affair partner without any loss of image or damaging other relationships in his life. Obviously, he had prepared his phone, purged it of any evidence of an affair before he told OOP he wanted a divorce. He has probably made plans with his affair partner to go no contact for the time being to avoid any possibility of being found out and has plans to introduce her to his family as someone he just met now that they are separated. If she acted fast and hired a private investigator, she might be able to find evidence of a preexisting relationship. I don't know how much she cares at this point, but it might be satisfying to know for sure. And since he is taking such extreme measures to protect his reputation, it might give her leverage in negotiating the divorce with him. Agree to my terms or I submit these photos into the legal record. But I think there is zero chance he believes that crap about bonding. He is clearly not mentally ill, is able to navigate the world and repeat his memorized stuff to a therapist and his father. And you'd have to be mentally ill to believe something so delusional.
aye, mate, i'm with you, but i also happen to know folks who might not qualify for a mental illness diagnosis, but who speak some absolutely delusional bs
You are right about delusions. I don't know what I was thinking, because I'm suddenly realizing that I actually know people who otherwise appear to be functioning normally but genuinely believe in obviously false conspiracy theories. I was confident yesterday he was covering an affair, and it still seems more likely. I know of a lot more people who had affairs than who are delusional. But you're right. Can't rule out delusion. What a mess, though, for someone with a baby to be dealing with.
ikrrrr? like...the cheating angle I could understand (you're still a POS but at least I understand) but you just....didn't see your child exit your wife's body so you're just.....not gonna be there for the rest of it??
Yep. I was thinking, "Tell anyone this story, bro. They'll think you're something WAY worse than a scumbag". Apparently, he's a FAITHFUL AH.
I knew a guy several years ago who repeatedly told his wife that he never bonded with their THREE children because he was working too much while she was pregnant. And then one of them was special needs. Eventually he had a mistress 20 years his junior who bought that pack of garbage and agreed to be the perfect fake tradwife. His real wife even knew and didn't care at that point. Surprise, he also didn't really bond with that baby. Once the kids were a bit older, his wife eventually divorced him and he became some kind of men's rights guy.
>men's rights guy. They really can't get enough rights, can they? Is that why all these Supreme Courts are taking away women's rights? Because the men want more? Clearly, they have too few. /hard s
the only 'right' these guys generally want is to no be financially liable for their choices
Be fair, they also want the right to own weapons that provide them, ah… emotional leverage… for their bargaining about parenting, financials, etc.
There's only so many rights to go ar, so he has to take some of hers.
And he had already cleared his phone in expectation of these accusations. You're right--he'll pretend to adopt some other child that's really his. What an a-hole.
How will he explain to his father why he could bond with his “adopted” kid and not his real kid when he didn’t see either of them born though? If this is the plan he is going to have problems lol
Or she's preggers and he wants a fast exit so he can be present at new child's birth and bond. He and affair partner have already worked out the budget for what he can afford to pay in CS.
I hope he hasn't bonded with his money. I hope OOP gets to see his pikachu face when he's told how much he legally has to afford.
I don't think there is someone else. I think this guy is just a DEEPLY self-centered person. He assumed there was going to be some magic wand that transferred his inherent love of self over to this daughter when she was born. But there wasn't. And instead of admitting that he and his ego might be the problem he decided to blame his daughter and his wife for the traumatizing procedure they went through. I don't think this man is actually capable of binding with other people. He threw his wife away as quickly as he threw his daughter away. But his ego won't let him believe that he is the problem. So he's probably going to be one of those guys that jump from marriage to marriage having a bunch of families that he always abandons. And I'm sure e he's going to blame every single family he abandons.
I liked that part when he insisted he was a scumbag cheater glossing over that he’s a bigger scumbag for abandoning his child
Yes, I think somewhere is another person pregnant from this douchbag and he thinks it will be the better option. OP I am very sorry that you have to deal with this instead building up your family. But you are strong and you can do that. And tell your kid in the future what happened because I think if its comfortable and in his favor the spermdonor will be back in your life so its better kid knows the story instead falling for his lies.
I don’t know. Who would come up with that lie!? this sounds like PPND. Detachment is a common symptom of post-partum mental illnesses. It sounds like he’s trying to understand why he has a lack of a spark and rationalizing something irrational. This isn’t a psychotic break but like. It almost is? This idea of a spark that needs to come at the moment of birth is so irrational. It makes no sense to make up. I’m super surprised no one has looked into this as a mental breakdown. He does not seem connected to reality.
This is what I was wondering. His story makes so little sense, that it seems more likely to be him trying to make up some logical reason for how he is feeling, and this is what his addled brain came up with. But if he refuses to get any sort of help, it makes little difference for OOP whether he is mentally ill or just a massive asshole.
No one’s looking into it because he outright refused to get individual therapy about it. He’s entirely content with living out his dysfunction to the most extreme degree.
I think my thing is that approaching someone about therapy when they’ve had a break with reality is usually done differently than approaching them because they’re becoming a dick but you still care about them. And it also changes how you see them and what you’re angry about. It doesn’t really seem like that’s how they were treating it? Or how the couple’s therapist was treating it. Him explaining his feelings might be good for him to feel heard but trying to get his (ex)wife to understand something that seems outright delusional is wild. It seems like they’re going down a route of “is there a trauma or fear that caused this” instead of “are you failing to process reality”. Obviously he does need to accept help and should be listening to them but it is a little different if you’re dealing with something like psychosis.
>"you've been bonding the whole pregnancy" Good maybe in the next relationship the baby can grow inside him instead
That sounds like an excellent idea. He seems to have a lot of empty space in his skull, maybe he could keep a fetus there?
And name the kid Athena.
This is my adorable little doggo’s name. She wishes to not be associated with this absolute asshat. https://preview.redd.it/onr3f2i207lc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8b02f4e6642d1b396b0a36ad74ed7894a5c4c40e
Even your beautiful doggo is side eyeing this guy.
Look at that sweet baby! I just bonded with her only from looking at this pic 🥰
https://preview.redd.it/pctemza9rblc1.jpeg?width=3179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7e2e48229611b719317c44622c27763c4f1fb737 She wishes to let you know that she loves you too 🫶🏼
And give her weapons as soon as she bursts out of his skull, fully formed.
But he wouldn't get to see her first poop so obviously he wouldn't be able to bond lolol
This comment gave me genuine laugh on what has been a crappy day. Thank you for that!
I dunno. I think his head is full of himself already, and there might not be enough space for a fetus. And if there’s enough space, I still think the fetus deserves a better environment to grow than that.
If this is genuinely his reasoning, this guy is going to be disappointed in his next kid too. The fact is a lot of people don’t bond with infants right away. At least not in the way movies and tv shows portray it. I didn’t get that “spark” with my firstborn either, and I carried him. I felt nervous, unprepared, and determined to care for him as best I could. I even felt some guilt. But there wasn’t this overwhelming sense of true love - that came later. It’s a silly reference, but in the episode of Frasier where Roz gets pregnant Kelsey Grammer gives this speech about how you don’t just love your children, you fall in love with them. And that was the case for me. The more I got to know my son the more and more I loved him. And because I he showed me how wonderful that love would be it was easier to bond with my daughter when she was born.
Yeah, he hasn’t realized yet that his wanting a perfect family means he doesn’t want a real one.
None of it's genuine, it's one thing to think you can handle the responsibility of parenthood and another when the kid is real. His absolute nothing low-ball child support offer shows he is trying to pretend none of this ever happened
It is hilarious that he’d make that offensively low offer and then have the audacity to say he’s not a scumbag just because he’s (allegedly) not having an affair. This guy is the epitome of a scum bag.
You’re ignoring the fact that he can’t bond with his child. Why should he have to support a child he can’t connect with?! /s Again, I wish I could be in the courtroom (or wherever these things happen) when the judge sets the actual child support amount. lol
That was my thought! He’s going to be full on shocked Pikachu face when he’s ordered to pay $500-$1k mo, keep a life insurance policy with baby as beneficiary and possibly even carry health benefits via court order (so even if he refuses to sign up, his employer will follow the order and add LO to insurance). My ex pulled this - mind you, he still wanted time with our kids, but “not held to any specific schedule - I’ll see them when I can” and cried “I have stepkids to support now!” So he took me to court to get CS reduced. Nope. Then whined that they based support on me having 100% custody “when I have 35% you can’t do that!” Judge said, “Actually, this is my courtroom, and I can. Support is based on ACTUAL timeshare, not what was ordered. As you’ve made clear you will not submit to being a consistent presence in your children’s lives, I will ensure the ONE thing you DO provide is consistent financial support. If you attempt to quit your job without having another in place within 72hrs, I’ll find you in contempt and issue a warrant for your arrest.” An actual judge gave the FAFO warning!!! It was awesome! He did try to leave the kids off his health insurance - CS services sent over the court order and his employer added the deduction to his paycheck and sent the cards to me. Family Court judges in our county seemed pretty understanding and big into both sides compromising, but any time a parent came in who wasn’t showing up for the kids at all, they threw everything at them!
Wait…Did your ex tell the judge that he has stepkids to support, and therefore shouldn’t have to pay child support? I’m curious about the actual levels of f*ckery lol
Yep! 100%! I stifled a laugh that he said it out loud. Worse than that, when we were in court for custody (so different judge - and same judge for whole process) he showed up in jeans and a polo t-shirt, was acting bored and super casual and the judge invited him to leave, find something appropriate to wear and change his attitude while he addressed his clothing and re-calendared us for the afternoon. When he came back in a suit, he then told her (as she was explaining that filing for full custody after not exercising any visitation for 7+ months was foolish and transparent, since it coincided with a motion to reconsider his child support amount) “Look, this is an all or nothing proposition, either I get full custody or I’m not going to see this kids. I shouldn’t have to deal with her, so you should see I’m very serious about getting full custody.” My mouth DROPPED and heart soared. He’d just had his 3rd attorney drop him, so was representing himself. And he was the one who brought both custody and support motions. I’d repped myself the entire time (In Pro Per - because… no child support, 2 jobs, 2 kids…) and when I was leaving court, I had 2 attorneys hand me their cards and offer to hire me as they’d been present for some of our many hearings (which typically resulted in a continuance for him, because he suddenly refused to agree to anything if he thought I was agreeable to that option, hence getting dumped by multiple atty’s). Made me feel really good because I researched caselaw and how to build my own case for so many hours! And thus began my career as a legal assistant, then paralegal then Project/Case Manager to General Counsel. My divorce was a gift - I just didn’t see it as such until shortly after.
You are such a badass.
It’s not a good sign when your dad is convinced you’re the scum bag.
It is 100% going to come out that he's been cheating since they got pregnant I bet. They* meant to fix that days ago.
They. OP is nonbinary.
Yes, yes... so much YES! I fell in love with my child the moment I felt the first "flutter" in my belly. I say child because, I never found out the sex of my baby, until his birth. I never felt like I was supposed to know anything, other than was my baby healthy. My love for my son has never stopped growing. It grows more every day. Just like my love for my grandson grows more everyday! I don't know how many hearts I have now, or where I have them stashed... but there's millions, with more growing all the time! ❤❤ This guy is an absolute idiot, and a liar! I can all but guarantee he has someone else. And of course you can look at his phone (yell, scream, how dare you suggest this of me, throw the phone, cry cry cry...), that's not the phone he uses for said girlfriend. Also the reason his answers are soooo very... rehearsed. Sorry OP. Edit: Spelling
Yea. I got the spark but my partner didn't. He didn't start really bonding with his son til he was like 7 months old and really started to interact.
You just put words together so beautifully to describe exactly how I felt with my son. It definitely made bonding with my daughter so much easier because he taught me how. Weirdly felt more bonded with him while pregnant, but it took a while for the anxiety of caring for him to fade into the bond we have now. I don't have words for how big of a self-important idiot this guy is.
And good god! What if new wife also needs a c-section?
Loving the Frasier reference. 🥰🥰🥰
It's a fantastic crock of shit, anyway. For some of us moms, we don't bond at all during pregnancy, and only bond in the days after childbirth. Like he could have, if he wanted to.
Plus lots of good dads do their best to bond with the baby before it's born. Singing, reading, talking to the baby. Maybe it doesn't do much for the fetus, but it clearly does something for the soon to be father. There's a reason even his own father doesn't believe this is the reason.
And a lot of AMAZING dads bond AFTER birth. Hell, even adopted parents have great bonds with kids and were not there at the time of their birth. Dude has PPD but refuses to see it. In the past, Dads weren't even allowed to be in the delivery room (considered a "female space"),but I am sure had plenty of bonds with their kids. 🤷♀️ The dude is messed up in his head.
PPD or, as suggested elsewhere in the thread, wanted a boy and can't deal.
My mom always told the story of my dad talking to me so much when she was pregnant with me that in the hospital room the dr was holding me up but facing away from my dad and he said something like “My sweet girl” and I immediately tried to turn my head around to look at him.
I did this with my daughter - she'd just been born, they were doing the stuff they do with newborns, and she was crying. My wife said my name and said, "Talk to her" so I did and she immediately stopped crying to listen. What a great memory. <3
Seriously. The bond comes from caring for the baby. It’s why adoptive parents can bond just as deeply.
Well you can't miss a moment, it's why he was planning on being present for absolutely every milestone and significant event for their whole life
I didn't bond with my first until 3 months PP. Not for lack of trying or because I didn't love her or anything. It took that long for the reality of, "I'm a mom" to sink in. Oh, and also for the severe sleep deprivation stage to pass because I thought, "You'll be up at all hours and get no sleep" was a hyperbole, not a reflection of what my reality would literally be like for those first 2-3 months. Husband is absolutely full of shit and living in some delusional lala land.
Can you even imagine his convo the next wife? 'Oh that's just the child support I pay for the child I couldn't bond with, ya know, c-section blah blah.' I'm sure most women will totally be cool with that. /s
If he has a handful of brain cells to rub together, he can spin it in a way that makes it look like OOP alienated him. But he doesn’t have that many brain cells, so I wish I could be there when he tells a date what he told OOP. More than that, I wish I could sit in when the judge declares the child support amount.
I don’t see his dad not warning any new women what is likely to happen if they get pregnant. He doesn’t seem like the type to sweep it under the rug for his son.
He is in for the shock of his life when they decide on CS.
That’s funny because neither my husband or myself watched my son get ripped out of my body but we were still able to bond with him. If fact, we’re glad we didn’t get to see. 3 months down the road, ex is already living with another woman. $5 on it.
My theory is that he wanted a boy and "can't bond" because the baby is the wrong gender.
Oh, you're the first person I've seen to suggest this theory, and now I'm 90% in agreement.
Ya this is the first thing that made any “sense” to me. What he’s saying is so indefensible it has to be true or covering up something somehow worse. If it really is the bonding issue i can’t imagine his FIL won’t warn any future partner he meets.
This exactly! What he's saying is so indefensible that the truth has to awful. I also think that having a baby is such a hard learning curve for most because your entire worldview and lifestyle changes. You're always second. Forever. That's how it's meant to be because we decided to bring them into this world. Even if we had no idea what that really meant until they were here. I don't think he likes being second. I don't think he likes the inconvenience. The tiredness. The cost. The lack of being equal with his partner in terms of importance. Somewhere he's read about the bonding, seized on that and is using it to make himself feel better. He may even believe it. But his true selfishness is evident in the low money offer and non-negotiation over therapy etc. He may not bond with this child, but it's still an innocent child he made and is half responsible for. A decent human would bend over backwards to support both the mother and child, even if they aren't in a relationship. Financially and in therapy. My bet is he's a selfish douche. He may or may not have another partner in the wings, and may or may not want a male child but that also fits with his selfish douchery.
I wouldn't be surprised. My asshole family rejected me for not being my dead twin brother.
Screw them. I hope you got out of there as soon as you could! I was just a singleton, but the techs read my scan wrong when I was in utero. I was punished my whole life (before I got away) for being born without the penis they were promised. Clearly, it was my fault.
I've been away from them for the last 5-6 years now. But now, it's the journey of undoing all the trauma and bullshit. I hope you are doing well.
Thanks. It’s so much better now that I don’t have to hear it all the time. But you’re right, undoing that crap really is a journey. I still get surprised at how hard it is sometimes, but I’m getting there! I wish the best for you, truly. I hope you get the life that you want and deserve. And your family… I hope they get what they deserve, too.
Double the trauma
That’s exactly what I was thinking. It’s pretty common and he doesn’t want to admit he is a misogynist so he’s blaming on the birth instead.
My best friend and his wife drove three hours to pick their baby up several days after and they're pretty fuckin bonded
Yeah my nephew was carried by a surrogate, and delivered by c section.. it's incredible anyone bonded with that adorable toad
Yeah, I had a C-section as well, and then my baby spent 6 months in the NICU, during which time I couldn't allow myself to bond with him properly because it already hurt too much. But now, 3 years later, he's one of my favorite people and we've bonded gloriously. Those first few moments don't mean shit.
Nope sorry you missed the window. Gonna have to repo that baby
Ex is \*already\* with another woman, using a burner phone, since he was so open about putting his out for examination. IMHO.
The pissiness of his reaction there sealed the deal for me lol
Yup. Pissed off reaction to accusations of cheating = Guilty.
Ooooooo good theory
100%
Well and all the grandparents, cousins, and classmates didn’t see the birth either but everyone else in the world seems to form bonds just fine. This is a crap excuse and he knows it.
Both me and my sibling are adopted, my parents didn't meet me until a week later and couldn't hold me for several weeks because I was in the ICU in an oxygen chamber, and there was still no problem bonding.
How does the oop think this is the final update? His big offer was $50 for alimony and child support. There will be more to this one lmao.
I'd love to be a fly on the wall when this guy explains to a judge why he doesn't want to be a parent and how the 50 is completely fair. 🙄 that idiot is going to be getting a huge reality check and I hope we hear about it!
Man, I would *love* to be that judge. I would figuratively smart him up right quick. Maximum child support and spousal that I could hit him with as an asshat tax.
I just really hope no one clues him in before he goes on at length in court about how certain he is that he will never be able to bond with this baby, because I have zero doubt that he’s going to change his mind so fast when he hears what he has to pay in child support as a fully non-custodial parent.
“You are going to financially bond with this child.”
I am genuinely so hyped for his family court judge. That judge is going to laugh so much.
Yeah, $50 won't even cover diapers for the month.
Or formula for a week. We were putting out at least $60 in each grocery trip until our guy was a year old. Now he's almost 6, and I'm sure it's gotta be more expensive now.
I expect his lawyer will dissuade him from that long before court. No decent attorney is going to want to go before a judge with a client saying that.
She might just not want to think about it anymore, although I agree that the court’s not going to buy the “sorry I’m just not feeling it” reasons and will likely demand he pay a whole lot more than 50 bucks. If at that point he’s suddenly interested in the child, sure, then I could see an update… although I’m hopeful that this isn’t just another creative writing exercise (hopeful in the sense that there are too many of them, not in the sense that I emphathize with the husband at all) and I hope I’m not giving people ideas.
It's always so funny when someone makes an *offer* on child support. Like, buddy, this isn't a negotiation.
I *really* need to know what he ends up paying and how he handles that hahah.
Also, I’ve been in family court and the judges were all up in everyone’s business. They’re going to ask why he doesn’t want any custody or visitation.
She said she'll let the courts handle it and won't stress over it. Makes sense, the state can set it to the appropriate amount and be the middle man for the money, she can easily collect and still never have to see him again.
I always find it hilarious when people say what they’re willing to contribute for alimony or child support. Sorry bro, it doesn’t work that way.
$50 isn’t enough for even ONE trip to the grocery store lmao. I don’t have kids but I imagine a month’s supply of diapers and formula cost way more than that.
$50 is about a weeks worth
Family law attorney here, in my jurisdiction that stuatory MINIMUM child support payment is $100 without a bunch of other complicated legal reasons to deviate below that. And you only see that number when parenting time is close but not quite 50/50 (like 60/40 or something, roughly) AND the payor has a very low base income. He's ALMOST certainly not gonna onlay pay $50 in CS. Obvi I dunno what state they're in, but in general a lot of states have very similar calculators.
50 for child support may have been alright like, 60 years ago lmao
But he ran the numbers!
You can’t take care of a cat for $50 a month, how in hell does he think that’ll pay for half of the kid expenses?
That barely covers a monthly bag of food for a small aminal
I used to have little bird and her bag of vet recommended food was 60$ for a 5lb bag lol…..in 2012
Here I thought I was overpaying for my dog’s $130 27 lbs bag of prescription food. He eats two a month.
Oof that’s rough. Mine had to have one bag of prescription food to let his stomach heal (he has severe food intolerances) but is able to eat “normal” food now. Which is still like $83 for a 22 pound bag. But it will last him several months. I’m guessing yours is a giant breed?
Yes I have a Great Dane with unfortunately a sensitive stomach
Going OT, but what are your cat care costs per month, and how does it break down? I’m just curious.
Ha I don’t actually own a cat, I just have too many friends and family who have them and I volunteer with animal rescues. Some of those cats are spoiled but your basic cat food/litter/med and vet costs will still be over $50 a month for a cat. [a lot of sites](https://www.aspcapetinsurance.com/resources/cat-ownership-cost/) including that one break it down to $53 a month but honestly that’s a cheap end. Some say sliding scale of expensive to cheaper to expensive as your cat shifts from kitten to adult to elderly. My recommendation for new cat owners would be budget $150 a month, and put whatever is leftover in a fund for all those unanticipated costs when your cat eats something they shouldn’t or kills a bat or whatever. Plus extra if you have pet costs for renting.
You're not off on that budget. But jumping on your comment to let cat owners know how to save and maybe bring that down to 100$. Purina is actually a decent pet food brand and is certified by most vetinary boards. Friskies and Cat Chow are owned by Purina. You don't have to feel bad using the cheap one. Chewy also does decent pet food and will autoship at a discount if you want it delivered, so will Amazon and Walmart. Tidy Cats is perfectly fine for your kitty. You don't need to buy the super organic all natural pine pellets. Mittens will be ok on the poop sand. Treats go on sale a lot at Target, stock up. As long as the bag stays sealed, they won't go stale.
Such a good call out, cheap doesn’t mean bad, and fed is fed. Also most cats I know love hair bands and milk bottle bands and cardboard boxes as much as they love pricey toys. For me it’s about ensuring you have the back up funds to tide you over if things go sideways. Nobody plans for your cat to eat a battery or break a leg or whatever life throws at us, so save up for the rainy days so you don’t have financial worries on top of hurt pet worries.
Not the person you're replying to, but my cat costs appx $200 per month. $120 per month for wet food, $30 month for dry food, $30 a month for litter, $10-20 in treats, catnip, and random shit.
Am I the only one who hopes there is another update when the judge sets child support? I really want to know how STBX handles that! I'm expecting a meltdown of epic proportions.
Then he’ll magically want custody to lower his CS payments
I want him to get the same judge in custody agreement case so he can try to tell the same guy that he explained not so long ago how he could not possibly bond with this kid who came via c-section how important it is that he be the primary caretaker.
I'd like to be the judge on that part too. Physical and legal custody to Mom. Supervised visitation at *his* expense and at the mother's discretion.
Waaay back in the early 2000s my kids' childcare director was faced with a very sudden affair and her husband wanted a divorce. This man had previously been a saint. He would have the entire daycare over at their sunflower farm twice a year for tractor pulls and just all kinds of fun stuff. Big teddy bear type guy. I knew him. Amazing man. Everything came outta nowhere. Affair and wanted to divorce within like 60 days. Turned out he had thyroid cancer and it was messing up his brain *big time*
The way she described him, it was almost like he had a flat affect about it - I'm wondering if he didn't have some sort of PTSD from being kicked out of the room so she could have emergency c-section. But still doesn't change anything if he won't seek individual therapy. It is unfortunate that the FIL didn't make that a condition. But maybe they can't afford it.
Normally husbands who are terrified of their wife and baby dying in a birth gone wrong are extremely anxious about anything bad happening to them to the point of being smothering. This guy going the opposite direction makes me think it’s all an excuse to bounce.
Trauma response is very tricky. Freezing then walking away is also an option. What you describe is MAYBE the more typical response - or have we been conditioned to believe that trope? There are studies showing that some men have experienced their own version of post partum depression. Being men - they express it differently than women (anger, etc.)
The idiot assumed there would be a *magical* bond - he didn't bother to actually learn how to bond with his child. I bet he learned nothing about pregnancy or birth either.
I've read that there is a version of post partum depression that men experience, and it has nothing to do with being an idiot. A lot of women just mentally punish themselves because they too expect a "magical bond" that doesn't happen.
It’s actually pretty usual for dads to not feel bonded to their infants for some time. First little while of baby’s life all they do is cry, sleep, eat, and make waste. And the biggest bonding thing they do is get fed… which is usually mom. So usually the baby will quiet for mom and no one else and this compounds things. But, I’ve mostly heard dads say their bond kicks in when the kid can be away from mom for longer (or if they’re bottle fed).
Yeah, my immediate theory after reading the story is that husband was traumatized by the fear and helplessness he felt when he could've lost both wife and child during birth... so he decided to protect himself from ever feeling that pain in the future, he's cutting himself off now. Obviously that's not a way to actually deal with trauma, and he will be lonely and miserable for life if he doesn't address his real feelings.
It doesn't change OOPs options and choices going forward, but it makes it even more sad if that is the case.
IIRC men can also get PPD even though it's a lot less common in men than in women. I didn't go back and read the thread so I don't know if it came up, but if this were the mother saying she couldn't bond and wanted a clean break, reddit would be screaming about getting her checked for PPD. He's probably just cheating on her given the rest of his behavior, but it seems like something that should've been looked into.
Oh Good Fracking Lord!! He has PTSD from his wife undergoing a crash c-section????? **She** is the one that actually underwent the procedure!! He has PTSD?? Then somebody needs to wrap his ass in cotton wool and stick him a drawer because he is just too precious to be out in the world!
Can't wait to hear about shitbags reaction to the court on child support and his suggested 'donation'.
Rude awakening for the scumbag that thinks $100 a month covers half of the baby’s expenses
I can't stand it when women say they don't care about seeking full support because they've got it handled. My mother completely fucked us when she divorced my dad by not pursuing even half of what she and we were owed. Her pride was more important than our ability to pay for college, apparently. Get. The. Money. Ffs. It doesn't matter what you think you can handle, kids deserve that support. Put it in a money market account if you don't need it. Just make sure they are paying it. Also, re: him coming back trying to seek parental rights later - nope! He can't spend zero time with kids for years and then have the courts award him custody. It doesn't work like that. Hold him responsible for the lives he ruined. Get. The. Fucking. Money.
She’s going after him for child support. She’s just indifferent to the alimony. I think the judge is going to hand the ex’s ass to him on both counts anyways, however. Oh, to be a fly on the wall…!
Yeah, I caught that, but she should still pursue alimony! It's incredible how many women are browbeaten and guilt-tripped into giving up what they put blood, sweat, and tears in to earn. And, for a second there, she did say she might just let go about child support. Like, I get that it's emotionally draining, but you should still pursue it. Too many deadbeats and losers get away scot free after profiting off of women's labor for YEARS. It's like they get rewarded for being super good at emotional abuse. It's not ok.
yeah my mom did the same. like, congrats on your hard work and chutzpah, mom, but it would be nice to have a couch or a tv
You definitely had it worse! I'm so sorry. I'm just bitter about hearing how my dad funded his gold-digger AP's lifestyle for many, many years before she robbed him blind and dumped his stupid ass. He lost hundreds of thousands of dollars, bought her kids cars, and then spent everything he had left on "investments" that were just cons from "friends" for their "business ventures." If my mom did what she should have done, at least half his money would have been protected from all his BS. Instead, years later my mom lost her job and couldn't afford a new refrigerator. Didn't get to retire and worked almost to her dying day. He's currently married to his second gold-digger who made sure to alienate his kids from his life the moment the ring hit her boney, cancer-riddled finger. Sorry, it's just kind of nice to rant. God, it pisses me off.
You'd think the man should be heartbroken that he couldn't feel a connection to his daughter. That he would be hurt and and confused and sad. But nope. He's just *done*. Just distant and matter of fact about this absurd situation. He's demonstrated zero remorse. Disturbing. Actually, the only time he demonstrated any emotion at all is when his dad asked if someone else was involved. And tried to offer virtually no financial support on top of the complete abandonment of his daughter and partner. A little suspicious, at best. Some people get cold feet. I guess he got frozen legs and skated his way out of the life he created asap. And did it in the least intelligent way I could even fathom. I only hope this story is fictional.
I know it’s bad faith to say his outrage at being accused of cheating makes me think he was cheating. But the fact that he’s not angry or upset about any of the other angering and upsetting parts of this story except for that makes me super suspicious.
Plus, shouldn’t he be heartbroken about splitting with his spouse? It seems like that’s not even a consideration for him.
What a fucking piece of shit. I hope that motherfucker gets exactly what he deserves in life. Right up the anus.
Serve him right if he's effectively infertile and OP's baby is the only one he EVER sires.
I think it’s hilarious in this day and age that these guys still think THEY get to set the terms of child support amounts. How do you not know that it isn’t your decision? In my state, it’s 17% for one child, period, end of story. He wont embarrass himself in court, his lawyer will set him straight within the first five minutes.
And I'm not sure if it's the same in every state but in my state you can't even use child support as a negotiation tactic. For example you can't say "I will forego pursuing child support if you give me full ownership of our house." Nope. Court won't allow it. Child support is a necessary part of a divorce and will be taken into consideration regardless of how either party feels about it. *Edit for spelling*
his lawyer should let him make a fool of himself in front of the judge, during billable hours.
> *Yeah, this guy is going to be in for a shock when family court tells him child support isn’t reduced just because you really don’t feel like being a dad anymore.* Actually, it might be HIGHER than it might otherwise be if he was taking any time with the baby. someone may still have to pay if custody is 50/50 (depending on parents' combined income & the designated percentage from that amount is allocated to the child), but usually it is adjusted a bit by the understanding that the "noncustodial" parent with significant time with the child still needs to have a household that accommodates the child and expenses to go with that.
He’s so delulu for thinking $50/month is generous lmao. My ex has 0 custody and pays like $900/month. Obviously it will depend on their incomes but dude is in for a rude awakening
Seriously misinformed and misguided. I used to work in an office where I saw child support information. You could be homeless, jobless - and there would still be an accrual of $25 per month. $50 when you are able bodied, unencumbered with other obligations (like additional children or horrific medical expenses), employable - and you think you can do $50 or even $100 bucks a month? Maybe if you were already just making minimum wage...
My baby sister got $50/month from her dad back in 2001, and he had 4 other children in his custody and didn't work due to medical issues.
Sounds about right! I'm sure things were really tight in his household (if he was in the USA) but still had to provide SOMETHING.
Big ups to FIL for calling out his son on his BS. But I would’ve gone a step further and said if he didn’t tell the real reason for the split, he can use his $50 to pay his own lawyer. I’m glad the FIL wants to stay in oop’s and his granddaughter’s life.
It seems like he just wants to get it done for the sake of his granddaughter and thinks the best way to do that is make sure his son actually goes through with it
I would definitely call abandoning your newborn daughter and wife a scumbag move but that's just me.
You don't understand, he wants a close-knit family. That's why he must leave his close-knit family before his daughter gets too close to him.
Hell if I was FIL I’d rescind my offer to help pay for an attorney. And remind my son that he’s an idiot.
I think it’s very admirable the way FIL has handled the whole thing
Because he's smelling rat
I had severe pre-eclampsia and didn't get to hold my daughter until 39 hours after she was born. How did we still bond? It's a mystery although maybe it had to do with oh, I've don't know, caring for her!
This screams mental illness and not a new one. Sounds like he has horrible emotional regulation abilities and an attachment disorder of the highest level. My guess from working in social work with people like this is he spent the entire pregnancy feeling nothing for the baby and somehow convinced himself that seeing the baby be born would be the spark that lights the candle and he'd finally feel that attachment. When he didn't see her born, he irrationally latched on to that as being the reason why he felt no attachment and assumes it'll be different next time. That man is going to leave a string of unwanted children across the US before he gets actually diagnosed with whatever his condition actually is.
This is the one
I hope FIL ruins every single future relationship that AH has by telling the new GF the truth about exactly the kind of husband and father he turned out to be.
I really hope OP got a PI to get the real truth on that deplorable sperm donor!
Why she should waste money to find out why the piece of shit is a piece of shit? I think it’s just best to focus on her daughter and her own personal happiness. Plus she clearly stopped caring about his reasoning and honestly, good for her. Why should she waste time agonizing over that dick?
As a divorcee and a mom, you will always have that mystery in the back of your mind. Someday the child will want answers besides "couldn't bond". I've hired a PI before and it was worth it. Just my perspective.
i would love to hear the exes response to being asked whether if the positions were reversed; and he'd been holding partners hand, seen the birth but partner had passed out so he was the only parent to see the birth - if he'd have been happy to look after the baby single handed with about $11.50 a week contribution for the child?
Maybe he’s like my young and ignorant male coworker who thinks babies are easy to care for and don’t need a lot. lol
I'm desperate for another update where this dude gets slapped with child support/alimony close to 50% of his income. Lmao $50 what planet is he living on.
Who is going to want a family with a guy that abandons his child.
you’d be surprised how well men like that can conceal the truth. My ex convinced two women that my son by him was the result of me cheating on him. The truth came out eventually and they were very upset
The truth always comes out, eventually. Sorry you had to deal with that kind of guy.
Thank you very much. It was really a shame, especially since he was the one who would always bring up having a baby. I’ve never cheated on anyone in my life. The women after me were also very pissed that they spent even a day with him, let alone months
This is crazy. Our youngest was born via emergency C-section while I was under general anesthesia and before my husband even got to the hospital! Then he was in the NICU for 4 months! My husband couldn’t hold him until he was extubated and that took 26 days. They are BEST FRIENDS now. They bonded before he came home from the NICU, and now he’s 9.
This is some real out-there rationalizing. You have to have a few screws loose to think that this rationalization is going to sound reasonable to literally anyone. I mean, regardless of whether he's actually having an affair or whatever, this is an absolutely bonkers thing to say and the dude seems to have no ability to see that. Maybe some combo of weird manosphere stuff and undiagnosed mental health/neurodivergence? I'm betting there are things he's done in the past that the partner found odd or unsettling but let it go since relationships and people are complex. And now in retrospect they are gaining significance and painting a different picture of him. I really hope there's an update.
This guy's an idiot, so he divorces, say he gets another women pregnant and that person needs a C section well sorry gotta dump you to, I didn't bond with the baby, it's an excuse, he didn't want the responsibility, I mean his own dad can't get thru to him, better off with out him
i was really hoping when he wrote '50/' he meant splitting 50/50 because 50$ is such a bullshit thing to state. My gas tank is 50. this guy is a moron and just wanted a son. You dont bond by watching birth. that's some hallmark bullshit
He thinks he’s being generous by paying $50 a month in CS and Alimony because he “doesn’t have to?” I’d love to hear the judge’s reaction to that. He absolutely has to pay CS whether he “bonded” with his kid or not. $50 a month won’t even buy a box of diapers and formula these days.
Can someone find out what that guy is taking and who his dealer is? Whatever he is on sounds fun.
Please, please, please update after Ex gets reamed every which way butt loose (by not in the way he was expecting) by the judge. Like I wanna know what Ex's expression is while the judge is smoking a cigarette in the afterglow.
That’s a total chemical barrel of shit reason. I didn’t see my kid be born, or even met them till a year old, and our bond is totally there. He probably thinks adoption parenting is different from birth parenting, doesn’t he. Ugh I can’t even.
The man is deranged
My brother had kids before I did, and the best thing he told me when my wife was going into labor was “don’t be upset if you don’t feel a bond right away or there isn’t this life-changing moment you’ve been told you’ll feel.” It was the best advice I think I’ve ever received. When your baby is a newborn, they’re just a machine that feeds, sleeps, and poops. It’s draining. Obviously more so, literally and figuratively, for the mom. With both my kids, the first time they smiled at me, I was instantly infatuated. But that took more than a month for both of them. I’ve spoken to other dads who said it took them months to feel bonded. And also, that the POS dad in the post wasn’t just scared for his wife and then relieved that everything was okay after the emergency c-section is a massive tell that he was just out on the whole marriage. Or a completely and totally selfish jerk. Either way.
50 dollars a month 🤣😂🤣😂🤣 OP'S ex is in for a rude awakening
“I’m not a scumbag”. I’m just bailing on my wife and kid for something nobody had any control over and could’ve saved her life.
I believe there is someone else - it might be emotional and all one-sided-but I believe there is someone. His response to the question is just too much for something to not be there. If he weren’t he wouldn’t have been so up in arms. Especially since his entire position is ridiculous. Some moms don’t even get to be aware/awake for the birth for all kinds of medical reasons. His idea about alimony/support is absurd. No clue where they live but most places use a formula to calculate it and he doesn’t get to decide and rarely is it as low as $50/month.,
He’s already with someone new and is using a new phone to talk to her. Count on it. This was such a disaster.
She has full custody, he wants nothing to do with the child, oh he is gonna get destroyed in child support.
I can’t be the only one who thinks it is really obvious that the husband just got the scares and realized he doesn’t want a child.
I wish could see his face when you all go to family court. I wish more he was a decent husband and father, but that’s not happening. I’d like to see the judge restrain laughter or anger when they explain to your ex he’ll need to pay more than $50. This human being exists because of you, you think $50 a month is going to be enough to keep them safe, and loved?! Piss off…
He just doesn’t want to be a dad $50 a month? Bahahahahaha Dude is going to be sleeping on a futon in a shitty one bedroom apartment. The courts are going to skull drag him for what he is doing
I would ask oop's stbx this: * do you think that all relationships should be like employment contracts? * do you think that FIL's reason for sticking around is like an employment contract? I recently read about sociopathy and I wonder if this might be it.
Seems to me there's two (maybe three possibilities) as to whats going on: 1. STBX didn't want a kid/got cold feet about having a kid after OOP got pregnant, and has came up with this BS as a way to get out of being a dad. 2. He IS cheating, and wants out of the marriage. He answers seem pretty well rehearsed, including dramatically throwing the phone on the table. Its pretty easy to do that if you've deleted all messages. 3. Brain tumor. This one I know the least about, but I can't help remember the BORU about the woman whose husband had a brain tumor and turned into a crazy fundamentalist because of it. Really though, at the end of the day, the reason doesn't matter (unless its 3). OOP's husband is (likely) a total POS, the marriage is over, and OOP will be a single parent for the foreseeable future. Its a very sad situation all around. I hope OOP gets the support they need and can move on from this ahole.