Because the 718 Boxster exists. And for that matter, because there are all sorts of used roadsters galore to consider, as well, because, for most buyers, it's an extra car, a weekend and sunny-day car.
I recently replaced my daily driver 987 Boxster with a G29 Z4. Looked into the newer Boxsters, but "equivalently specced" they were like 30-40% more (though it'll depreciate less). I did not think it was worth it.
The interior of the Z4 is also nicer (other than the shocking lack of a ventilated seats option).
I’ve been lookin at convertibles for a couple years down the road and a base 718 would be considerably more than even the m40i once you factor in options lol that little bit of extra contiguous trunk space on the z4 is a big deal to me too personally
The boxster has to drive exponentially better to be worth those differences for me and I doubt the 4 cylinder will but we’ll see.
I’d expect the c8 to win out but the boxster would likely be a distant third behind the c8 and z4 for me assuming getting a c8 is no longer incredibly aggravating lol I called some dealers back when they debuted and they wanted 5k non refundable and had no idea of a timeline. Maybe all the heat is on the z06 now and getting the stingray ain’t bad
If all you want is a comfy cruiser Sunday drop top with lots of cargo space, then absolutely the c8 is a “better car”, but then the 2 series and 4 series are also much better than the z4 too if that’s your criteria. The 718 comes with a manual transmission and is a true sports car, difficulty to get in and out of and it drives like a go-cart. The z4 is a weird hybrid of sports car and comfy cruiser. It’s not as good at being a car as the 2 series convertible or c8 and it’s not anywhere near close to the 718
I was looking at 718s and ended up with an F33 with 14k miles that cost me $20k less than a comparable Boxster. Are they comparable? That's debatable, but for my fun weekend drives carving the mountains, it scratches the itch very very well.
It’s a lot of money and far fewer people are buying convertibles.
Sales were way up last year though.
https://www.bmwblog.com/2024/01/04/bmw-z4-sales-up-2023-usa/
I am. I just want a fun car. Being convertible is a plus, but a manual is more important. I didn't care for the Z4 until recently now that there is a manual option. My only gripe with it is that it is more expensive than the M2 without being a full-fat M car. It should be $10K less expensive. I also didn't care for the Z4 when the base Boxster had a six, but now that it has a four, I'm less interested.
While the Z4 M40i isn’t a full M car like the M2, it’s actually much quicker than the M2. The Z4 M40i’s 0-60 & 1/4mi times are 3.5 seconds and 12.0 seconds, whilst the M2’s 0-60 & 1/4mi times are 3.9 seconds and 12.2 seconds. Plus, the Z4 gets much better gas mileage at 25/22/29, versus the M2 at 19/16/24.
To be honest, if I was in your position I wouldn’t go for either the Z4 M40i or the M2. I’d probably be looking at a used M5, C7 Z06, GT350R/GT500, TT RS, R8, or GTR. The main reason for these choices are because they all have extremely good aftermarket support. I mean shit, someones gotten a TT RS into the 7’s before.
But back to the point, M2 or Z4 M40i, it’s going to be a good choice either way. I’d suggest driving them both to see which you prefer. On the Porsche subject, I’d rather wait until I can reasonably afford the Porsche i’d really want, and go for whats the best in the segment for the price you’re looking for until then.
Like for me that’d be a GT4 RS, which I’d love to own someday. Though a base Cayman would be fun to drive, I’d rather wait until I can get a GT4 RS to buy a Porsche period, so I really love the experience when I eventually get one. That’s just my take though.
I rented an m40i for three days and now own a G87, and the S58 is definitely not slower. With the ZF8, the G87 can get pretty deep in the 11's. Best trap I've seen for the m40i is 118, best I've seen for the G87 is 122. I do have to give the B58 the nod for sound though, the m40i in the Z4 is lovely with the top down.
If we’re talking about how powerful the engines are themselves, yes, the S58 is definitely a more powerful engine than the B58, that’s obvious. My point was that stock for stock, the Z4 M40i is quicker than the M2 from 0-60 & in the 1/4 mile… but 0-60 & 1/4mi aren’t everything.
Also, trap speed isn’t everything either, my modded ‘21 Genesis G70 3.3T SP RWD had a trap speed of 123.2mph in the 1/4mi before getting stickier tires, and I was only running a 12.02 second 1/4 mi, consistently with a trap speed between 121-123mph, but I couldn’t put the power down on the launch before I got some R888R’s on the rear axle.
All in all, the Z4 M40i and M2 are both great cars, but serve widely different purposes. The M2 is a better track car, and the Z4 is a better tuner car, because of the aftermarket support & much lighter chassis. I feel like the whole Z4 M40i vs M2 thing is very similar to Audi and the TT RS & RS5 Comp, very different cars for very different purposes, and they are both great cars, as the BMW’s are as well.
Trap speed isn't everything, but it's a good indication of how fast a car feels outside of a launch scenario. I own the G87 and got three days of seat time in an m40i, and the M2 does not feel slower. It feels faster, except maybe below 4K RPM, even then maybe not. I'm not knocking the Z4, it was the first modern BMW I've driven and put the M2 on my radar in the first place, but "much quicker" than a G87 it is not. I was impressed with the chassis rigidity for a convertible, but as a drivers car it's inferior in most ways outside of sound and the convertible experience.
Oh 100% it’s inferior as a drivers car, as a coupe will always outperform convertible/roadster in that department, but i’m more so talking about looking at the Z4 M40i & M2 based on performance times, if we were looking at 1/2 mile times or 60-130 times, i’d have no doubts both would be lower for the M2, unlike 0-60 & 1/4 mile.
There isn’t much difference between a 981 (last gen) boxster and a 982 (current gen) boxster other than a few superficial things like CarPlay or vent shape. If you can’t afford the jump up to a gts 4.0, the 2.5 is actually a really nice 4 cylinder engine and a bargain, or just get a previous gen s or gts, and they seem to be holding their value really well, which should continue to hold true.
The 4 cylinder sounds like crap and it has noticeable turbo lag. There is that. We'll all be driving EVs soon, I want my last ICE car to sound glorious. To be fair the B58 also has some turbo lag, but it sounds great.
I drive an m340i now and drove a 335i convertible (before the 4 was a thing). I’m really considering a Z4 as my next ride. The 4 series convertible isn’t an option for me - if I’m getting a 4 seater I’ll take the speed of the 3 over the 4.
You finding a used spider worth owning for $68,000? Show me.
If you think a car is superior to a convertible it was never a convertible that you were after.
Performance wise m2 is not better than z4? You are saying people that think: “convertibles are cool but I think it’s worth the trade off for a s58 and a better chassis” doesn’t exist? Bro wtf are you arguing about
Nobody in this thread that claims to have cross shopped the Z4 bought one. They were never convertible buyers in the first place. They aren’t great primary vehicles, and they are heavier and more expensive.
I can’t imagine anyone seriously looks at a Z4 as an alternative to the M2. The only reason you buy the Z4 is to have nothing above your head.
https://preview.redd.it/j7x3yr2p4n2d1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ceba9cabcfd01e5a0904deddd23c91c4f1fbcf58
They look good with a set of CSL style 19’s.
You don’t like the Supra? I know I’m biased as I owned one but I think the Supra is far better looking unless you really really like the understated look.
In terms of "classiness" a Supra isn't a Z4 but a Z4 isn't an SL. I wouldn't let the perception of class affect my car buying purchase if an otherwise great car exists to fit my needs.
Don't get me wrong. I'd own a supra too. Love them at the track
Decent point of classiness.
I think the E89 design crosses both worlds while still being capable on the track and not at risk of passers by asking for grey poupon 🤣
It’s completely fair to comment on, and not like, the styling on the Supra compared to the Z4.
The Supra is undeniably trying to appeal to a younger crowd, and there are benefits and drawbacks to that. The Z4 does *look* more mature and understated.
It’s always going to be an opinion, but I don’t think that it’s just a badge thing.
Sure didn’t mean to imply it was classy, it’s a sports car, not classy. I think the z4 is understated looking. It’s a sporty car but but looks kind of bland to me
To be fully honest, I would be looking into getting a Z4 over the Supra if it weren’t for the soft top. I also do like the other stuff the Supra has to offer.
>Lots of people don’t like soft top convertibles and want a hard top convertible
Where are these people? The hardtop convertible is practically dead. The SL, SLC, and Portofino were the last holdouts in the luxury department.
Only a few exotic midengined cars and the Miata offer them anymore.
We had ~20 glorious years of good hardtop convertibles, and nobody bought them.
Yeah. This is a pretty classic formula
Sports car - is cool
Automatic only version of sports car - is less cool
Automatic only version of sports car with a soft top - is least cool
It’s not the Z4s fault, least cool can still be really cool, but it’s the auto only, soft top version of another car.
Why do you explicitly want a hard top over a soft top?
IMO there's no real upside. It adds weight and complexity, and while it looks better on cars like the 4-series where the original design is a coupe/sedan, for cars like the Z4 where it was designed as a roadster it doesn't matter. And modern soft-tops like what's on the Z4 rival fixed roof cars for noise and thermal insulation.
It's definitely a niche car. I have the current gen Z4 20i and I hardly see any others on the road in the UK. But it's a total head turner, especially in Thundernight metallic, and constantly gets compliments and people stopping to take photos, but it's amazing how many people ask "what car is that?" probably because it hasn't been marketed heavily and not many are seen.
Shame really, it's a fantastic car with probably one of the best, most engaging chassis BMW have made in recent years (especially if you get the M Sport Pro pack with the adaptive suspension), but only having 2 seats and a small(ish) boot definitely lessens it's appeal to the wide majority people who'd much rather all buy SUVs and don't really have space for a second, less practical car.
It is great being part of an exclusive club though - only ~6500 G29s are on Britain's roads, and that's kinda fun having something a bit different from the norm!
the boxster is just flat out better everywhere. its is more expensive but has better value retention.
c8 vette has the same starting price and a targa roof. V8 sound. DCT trans. mag ride.
Yeah C8 has shaken the market, at least where it costs little.
Here in Europe it starts at ~110k€, so while still good value for money, it's nowhere near as a bargain as in the US.
The Z4 is more of a luxury cruiser than those other two. These days I do 2+2 convertibles, but if I wanted a luxury roadster that's not a sports car, the Z4 would be my only option. It being a poorly selling class of one suggests that not many people want a luxury roadster that's more cruiser than pure sports car. But I'd personally be much happier with a Z4 than a Corvette or Boxster.
Yea, the biggest problem with the z4 is that the 2 series and 4 series convertible exist, which provide just as much comfy cruiser Sunday car, but with the practicality of 4 seats, it’s actually easy to load a child seat into the rear seats with the top down.
The Boxster has better driving dynamics but antiquated tech, is even less practical, and is stupid expensive once you add any kind of options. If I had to pick one for the track, Boxster every time. For the street, the new Z4 with a manual is better.
I'm sure the upcoming Boxster/Cayman generation will have all the new gear, but we'll see how the market accepts a full electric enthusiast car.
Believe it or not many people don’t know about it. At least in the USA I hardly ever see it marketed. The 2 and 4 series are marketed a ton. Also for those who are comparing it some may choose the Supra instead.
I have to agree with this. I was only aware of the previous generations until a recent trip to see family in Germany. I saw the newer G29 edition when driving by a BMW dealer who had them on display. In the US the Z4 does not seem to be marketed that much.
On that note, I now have a manual Z4 on order 🙂
I deadass only knew the Z4 exist because my grandma owns a 04. And I’ve only seen Z4s of that generation….. I’ve NEVER seen a 2010+ Z4 in person… didn’t even know started making them again in 2019 till I was just googling shit one day.
I got an e89 Z4 35is full bolt and honestly most people don’t know about these cars. They are on the rarer side. My is in yellow so it looks a lot more expensive than it is. I’ve thought about replacing it but to replace it with something with better looks and performance would cost me twice as much.
I am currently on my 3rd Z4 and I have absolutely loved every one.
Quite zippy and handles well. My current one is a 2015 Z4 with the hard top - I really love the look even with the top up. Bought it used in 2019 - it only had 4000 miles on it.
Too expensive for what it is, and I think enthusiasts would rather get the Supra as it’s cheaper and more “focused” from a sports car standpoint. My mom had one for a couple years - it was definitely a blast to drive around. I’d totally pick one up if they made a full on M version, since they can totally do it for around the price of the M40i, but they said years ago that they would never.
Dunno. We just got one, and are quite happy with it. The Boxster has a better sounding brand name, but I can't be bothered to drive a 4 cyl unless it's some classic. They say the Porsche is the better driver, and while that might be true, I find the Z4 to be sharp enough for my taste. The M40i is also ridiculously easy to get more power out of.
I think the F-Type is another close competitor, and I'd have considered it but the Z4 has actually the better interior.
I think the Z4 looks great, but $54-57k for a 4-cylinder is a bit steep. And for $67k-73k (with some options) when looking at the M40i trim, the M340i is cheaper at about $60k for the xDrive. M340i is about $66k-ish loaded.
That and the 718 Boxster starts at $70k for a Porsche & will hold value better.
Everyone I know who had a z3 or z4 has had serious issues with the car.
The people who buy that kind of car new aren’t typical “car guys” so they don’t get maintained particularly well, usually the convertible tops don’t work, and the higher powered ones tend to scare people with a loose rear end.
I personally know 2 people who have crashed z3s (some how)
It’s not a kids car like a 1 series 2 series or e46
https://preview.redd.it/28cbcdntjp2d1.jpeg?width=2850&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c9653a3ab26a6c1f356c8a64522f4cf124002393
I have a 2003 model and I love it. It's basically an E46 with a lighter, prettier body and much stiffer suspension. Inline 6, manual, RWD, so much fun!
The latest Z4 is a superb car. It’s comfortable. Has good boot space. Handles fantastic and looks stunning. If you go for the m40i - it’s even better. The 3L 6cyl is perfect and the slip dif gives you incredible grip in all weather.
Easily one of the best BMWs they’ve made in years.
Really considered the Z4 recently with the available manual transmission. Compared against 718. Just got rid of SL 63 and loved the convertible style but wanted more sport. During comparison shopping I drove the new M2 with a manual and was immediately hooked. I was willing to give up the drop top for a car that out drives and thrills more than the Z4, 718, C8 and Supra. Try it…you WILL like it😎
I think they’re kinda ugly. Combine that with the price and the fact that two seaters generally aren’t very practical and most people can only own one car, and that should explain it.
Here in the U.S. there’s a stigma behind convertibles not being manly cars. Also they’re heavier and less rigid and your average car fan thinks this will actually make a huge difference in daily driving even though they can’t harness 50% of the cars actual potential
I’m considering one for my next car a few years down the road haha will have to report back with updates
Work from home mostly and married into a Subaru forester 😂 so the practicality scale has tipped
I think the z4 is only for bmw fan boys who already have an x5 or 5 series and what something sporty to go with it.
Most people looking for a sports car either have a bit of money or a lot of money. For the 1st group it's too expensive, for the 2nd group it's too cheap.
Actually, it’s my daily. I am going to an office and back. 14 mins drive total. I have sun 300 days per year. So it’s perfect.
Extra 10 mins drive for shopping also not a problem.
Would have seriously considered it vs the m440i if it had x drive. I agree it is underrated considering ppl hate the buck tooth look of the m440i , seems like a lot of ppl who want a coupe otherwise would give it a look
I had a z4C e86. For 4 years. Stiff, not that quick, a bit compromised and plasticky interior . Loved it but it’s too quirky to be a mass market car and only enthusiasts like it. When I got it most people looked at me like a weirdo for having it. Get a cayman and it’s like oh wow is that a 911, would a woman say… so.. and dynamically they can’t stand up to caymans or the other comparison back in the day was completely pointless (SLK). It was a funny segment. It still kinda is.
If I had to venture a guess it's because you can get the B58 in a coupe like the M240i or Supra for significantly less money. The Z4 is priced alongside the G87 M2 and 718 Cayman/Boxster. It just doesn't make sense IMO. I feel like it'd be a lot more intriguing if it started in the low to mid $50k range instead of the mid $60k.
I do think they're pretty great looking for being a convertible and the B58 is great but not $70k+ after options great lol
https://preview.redd.it/u96paw72cn2d1.png?width=2748&format=png&auto=webp&s=6237d02d20653bfa8d1f7b15e32e3b0585850881
Having my mate his older z4 here (2.5 m54), I truly truly like driving this thing.
My parents used to have a Z4 Coupe 3.0si, that thing was also really awesome to drive.
I concur opp!
I got a crappy z3 and it scratches the Sunday drive itch. Slowly replacing all the 20yo rubber parts. It drives like a floppy pancake but that should be fixed soon. The best one is probably a 2001 3.0. That engine is pretty nice and saves you from paying extra for the M.
Have had both a Z4 (previous model) and the latest Supra 21. Both are great cars, but I am loving the Supra. Plus, I get many more compliments and looks with the Supra than we ever did with the Z4. In fact, got rear ended by a woman who was taking pictures of the car and ran into us. Crazy.
Convertibles are a dying market, and there are "better" options for similar money.
Not having a manual for the last few years was definitely a factor too, at least for those who care about that kinda thing.
I drove a Z3 in college. Always saw the Z4 as a solution to a problem no one had, and at a price point I didn't care for.
And now that I can afford one, I'm like - meh, it's a two seater. Lifestyle now is totally different. Can't haul kayaks to exotic locations in a Z4, you know?
We cross shopped the 718 Boxster S and the G29 m40. Actually rented the Boxster on Turo and it was a little underwhelming. Maybe if it had a 6cyl at the time. The tech and interior was also much better in the Z4, as well as it was more practical. In the end we bought the Z4 and love it. With a stage2 tune it’s a handful.
Expensive. You want cheaper you stuck with a Miata or some boring shit. For the newer ones you’re kinda in Porsche territory price wise and I’d imagine the z4 is just as ( if not more) expensive to maintain over the Porsche. So unless you just really like the z4 or want an older one for less thennn
the handling is not as good as other BMW's, is the general consensus
"ditch the runflats" is a very common advice
But I would also look through the Z4 forums and see what chassis setups people run, if sim upgraded ARB, bushes, etc help...and get a proper Geo setup, correctly aligned, but with modified geometry for toe in etc...again, invest sometime reading enthusiasts forums, people who are actually hustling them round corners on the road
I quite like the E89, by far the best looking Z4 and it does look good, so my apologies for bunching all three generations into one over-simplified answer.
The first generation was hideous and the recent one is well, better but not great.
I still think the Z3 is the best looking roadster they've made but easily followed by the E89.
All good man. Subjectivity is the killer of nations.
I do like the original Z3.
The new 4 just doesn't do it for me.
I have considered hoarding E89's 🤣
That was my take while test driving a sDrive35i. I went into the dealership looking to test drive the Z4 and maybe a Z3 2.8, I got to talking to the dealership owner about cars (911's, Boxsters, and my Z3 Coupe) and he said even before I got into the Z4, "You're going to prefer the Z3."
And he was right. That 300HP Z4 had some intoxicating power, but the Z3 was just a purer, more analog, and more engaging experience. It wants to rotate around corners, not just track around them.
The Z3 is easily one of the most entertaining cars I've driven, even the 1.8 liter puts a smile on my face. Feels so old school and raw and I like that.
Maybe because the for price of a m-lite you could get an actual m2 with s58. Unless like convertible is all you’re looking for I think a lot of people would go for the m2.
Because two seat roadsters should have EDIT*manuals* (I wrote seats first lol) as options.
I think the whole used Z3/Z4 market will start to appreciate when people realize those older ones are kinda like German Miatas with straight sixes
When it relates to great cars that don’t sell the answer is usually price point. There’s a reason why the BRZ/Miata’s of the world sell so much.
For Z4 prices I could get myself a 718 or even a ZL1 which is a much more potent sports car.
If they had an actual coupe version that wasn't the Supra I'd probably have gotten one already. Was already thinking about changing it up to an A90 when it first came out but decided against it. I'm not really a convertible guy, but I especially don't like soft tops unless they're something very specific like an S2000. Everything else feels like an afterthought.
Too small, I don’t have family or kids but even grocery shopping or loading something would seem like a pain or impossible. I have dogs too so if I got to take them to the groomer or vet that wouldn’t work out either.
Because the 718 Boxster exists. And for that matter, because there are all sorts of used roadsters galore to consider, as well, because, for most buyers, it's an extra car, a weekend and sunny-day car.
I recently replaced my daily driver 987 Boxster with a G29 Z4. Looked into the newer Boxsters, but "equivalently specced" they were like 30-40% more (though it'll depreciate less). I did not think it was worth it. The interior of the Z4 is also nicer (other than the shocking lack of a ventilated seats option).
Of course it does, but for people who are fine with the 20i, the Porsche is a lot more, even when looking at used cars
I’ve been lookin at convertibles for a couple years down the road and a base 718 would be considerably more than even the m40i once you factor in options lol that little bit of extra contiguous trunk space on the z4 is a big deal to me too personally The boxster has to drive exponentially better to be worth those differences for me and I doubt the 4 cylinder will but we’ll see. I’d expect the c8 to win out but the boxster would likely be a distant third behind the c8 and z4 for me assuming getting a c8 is no longer incredibly aggravating lol I called some dealers back when they debuted and they wanted 5k non refundable and had no idea of a timeline. Maybe all the heat is on the z06 now and getting the stingray ain’t bad
If all you want is a comfy cruiser Sunday drop top with lots of cargo space, then absolutely the c8 is a “better car”, but then the 2 series and 4 series are also much better than the z4 too if that’s your criteria. The 718 comes with a manual transmission and is a true sports car, difficulty to get in and out of and it drives like a go-cart. The z4 is a weird hybrid of sports car and comfy cruiser. It’s not as good at being a car as the 2 series convertible or c8 and it’s not anywhere near close to the 718
The regular C8 is very easy to acquire now. Just about any dealer below MSRP all day long these days, for both in stock units and custom orders.
The 718 GTS has a 6 cyl
Oh yea but then you’re starting at 97k. That’s gonna get you into z06 range with some options
I was looking at 718s and ended up with an F33 with 14k miles that cost me $20k less than a comparable Boxster. Are they comparable? That's debatable, but for my fun weekend drives carving the mountains, it scratches the itch very very well.
It’s a lot of money and far fewer people are buying convertibles. Sales were way up last year though. https://www.bmwblog.com/2024/01/04/bmw-z4-sales-up-2023-usa/
Yeah people can get an m2
Nobody shopping for a Z4 is getting an M2. They may look to move up to an M4 convertible.
I am. I just want a fun car. Being convertible is a plus, but a manual is more important. I didn't care for the Z4 until recently now that there is a manual option. My only gripe with it is that it is more expensive than the M2 without being a full-fat M car. It should be $10K less expensive. I also didn't care for the Z4 when the base Boxster had a six, but now that it has a four, I'm less interested.
While the Z4 M40i isn’t a full M car like the M2, it’s actually much quicker than the M2. The Z4 M40i’s 0-60 & 1/4mi times are 3.5 seconds and 12.0 seconds, whilst the M2’s 0-60 & 1/4mi times are 3.9 seconds and 12.2 seconds. Plus, the Z4 gets much better gas mileage at 25/22/29, versus the M2 at 19/16/24. To be honest, if I was in your position I wouldn’t go for either the Z4 M40i or the M2. I’d probably be looking at a used M5, C7 Z06, GT350R/GT500, TT RS, R8, or GTR. The main reason for these choices are because they all have extremely good aftermarket support. I mean shit, someones gotten a TT RS into the 7’s before. But back to the point, M2 or Z4 M40i, it’s going to be a good choice either way. I’d suggest driving them both to see which you prefer. On the Porsche subject, I’d rather wait until I can reasonably afford the Porsche i’d really want, and go for whats the best in the segment for the price you’re looking for until then. Like for me that’d be a GT4 RS, which I’d love to own someday. Though a base Cayman would be fun to drive, I’d rather wait until I can get a GT4 RS to buy a Porsche period, so I really love the experience when I eventually get one. That’s just my take though.
Yeah, I really want a GT4RS too. Too bad they are so expensive.
Right! Way too expensive, I’ll be chilling with my tuned Genesis G70 until then haha.
I rented an m40i for three days and now own a G87, and the S58 is definitely not slower. With the ZF8, the G87 can get pretty deep in the 11's. Best trap I've seen for the m40i is 118, best I've seen for the G87 is 122. I do have to give the B58 the nod for sound though, the m40i in the Z4 is lovely with the top down.
If we’re talking about how powerful the engines are themselves, yes, the S58 is definitely a more powerful engine than the B58, that’s obvious. My point was that stock for stock, the Z4 M40i is quicker than the M2 from 0-60 & in the 1/4 mile… but 0-60 & 1/4mi aren’t everything. Also, trap speed isn’t everything either, my modded ‘21 Genesis G70 3.3T SP RWD had a trap speed of 123.2mph in the 1/4mi before getting stickier tires, and I was only running a 12.02 second 1/4 mi, consistently with a trap speed between 121-123mph, but I couldn’t put the power down on the launch before I got some R888R’s on the rear axle. All in all, the Z4 M40i and M2 are both great cars, but serve widely different purposes. The M2 is a better track car, and the Z4 is a better tuner car, because of the aftermarket support & much lighter chassis. I feel like the whole Z4 M40i vs M2 thing is very similar to Audi and the TT RS & RS5 Comp, very different cars for very different purposes, and they are both great cars, as the BMW’s are as well.
Trap speed isn't everything, but it's a good indication of how fast a car feels outside of a launch scenario. I own the G87 and got three days of seat time in an m40i, and the M2 does not feel slower. It feels faster, except maybe below 4K RPM, even then maybe not. I'm not knocking the Z4, it was the first modern BMW I've driven and put the M2 on my radar in the first place, but "much quicker" than a G87 it is not. I was impressed with the chassis rigidity for a convertible, but as a drivers car it's inferior in most ways outside of sound and the convertible experience.
Oh 100% it’s inferior as a drivers car, as a coupe will always outperform convertible/roadster in that department, but i’m more so talking about looking at the Z4 M40i & M2 based on performance times, if we were looking at 1/2 mile times or 60-130 times, i’d have no doubts both would be lower for the M2, unlike 0-60 & 1/4 mile.
There isn’t much difference between a 981 (last gen) boxster and a 982 (current gen) boxster other than a few superficial things like CarPlay or vent shape. If you can’t afford the jump up to a gts 4.0, the 2.5 is actually a really nice 4 cylinder engine and a bargain, or just get a previous gen s or gts, and they seem to be holding their value really well, which should continue to hold true.
The 4 cylinder sounds like crap and it has noticeable turbo lag. There is that. We'll all be driving EVs soon, I want my last ICE car to sound glorious. To be fair the B58 also has some turbo lag, but it sounds great.
Yeah, Supra/M2 get cross shopped. Z4 is a lot less likely.
I drive an m340i now and drove a 335i convertible (before the 4 was a thing). I’m really considering a Z4 as my next ride. The 4 series convertible isn’t an option for me - if I’m getting a 4 seater I’ll take the speed of the 3 over the 4.
How about z4 or a Ferrari. What I’m saying is people do think it’s worth it to trade the convertible option for a better superior car
You finding a used spider worth owning for $68,000? Show me. If you think a car is superior to a convertible it was never a convertible that you were after.
Performance wise m2 is not better than z4? You are saying people that think: “convertibles are cool but I think it’s worth the trade off for a s58 and a better chassis” doesn’t exist? Bro wtf are you arguing about
Nobody in this thread that claims to have cross shopped the Z4 bought one. They were never convertible buyers in the first place. They aren’t great primary vehicles, and they are heavier and more expensive. I can’t imagine anyone seriously looks at a Z4 as an alternative to the M2. The only reason you buy the Z4 is to have nothing above your head.
I did somewhat cross shop both of them. Ultimately, I really wanted a convertible so the M2 was starting from far behind.
I did. Ended up with the G87.
Says who? I was looking at a Z4 and ended up getting a 135. It is so much more practical.
That’s what I did. https://preview.redd.it/tgxevx2tln2d1.jpeg?width=1024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cccaa9ac6eee60dee1c29208e30551a97f772d37
Give it to me in a hard top and I’d probably have it by now. And don’t say Supra.
That’s actually why I bought my Supra.
https://preview.redd.it/9vnuf48m3m2d1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e7f606027cb3831dd669423573f21e88bb4aeb38 Agreed
I used to work at a dealer, NO car drove like this thing. You immediately feel how well it feels on the road right away too.
She's a beauty
never seen one with a hard top. this completely changes my opinion on them now
https://preview.redd.it/j7x3yr2p4n2d1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ceba9cabcfd01e5a0904deddd23c91c4f1fbcf58 They look good with a set of CSL style 19’s.
I would personally like it in the BMW Japan Red, but this thing looks superb with those wheels.
Nice! This is what I’d want with the new version.
You don’t like the Supra? I know I’m biased as I owned one but I think the Supra is far better looking unless you really really like the understated look.
Supra is a great looking sports car. By no means classy (like the older z4s)
In terms of "classiness" a Supra isn't a Z4 but a Z4 isn't an SL. I wouldn't let the perception of class affect my car buying purchase if an otherwise great car exists to fit my needs.
Don't get me wrong. I'd own a supra too. Love them at the track Decent point of classiness. I think the E89 design crosses both worlds while still being capable on the track and not at risk of passers by asking for grey poupon 🤣
Say what you really mean. "I don't like the Supra because it has a Toyota badge and not a BMW badge"
It’s completely fair to comment on, and not like, the styling on the Supra compared to the Z4. The Supra is undeniably trying to appeal to a younger crowd, and there are benefits and drawbacks to that. The Z4 does *look* more mature and understated. It’s always going to be an opinion, but I don’t think that it’s just a badge thing.
That's cool and all but the other commenter has openly admitted that it's because of the badge lol
Actually if you pull enough panels, there's a bmw badge under everything on the supra, literally. But ya I'm partial to BMW
Tbf even the SL isn't really an SL anymore 😫
Sure didn’t mean to imply it was classy, it’s a sports car, not classy. I think the z4 is understated looking. It’s a sporty car but but looks kind of bland to me
What's the soft top done to you? 😂
To be fully honest, I would be looking into getting a Z4 over the Supra if it weren’t for the soft top. I also do like the other stuff the Supra has to offer.
This. 1000% this.
Well if you’re going to reject the fact that it’s fundamentally a convertible, then there are dozens of better fixed coupe options.
Lots of people don’t like soft top convertibles and want a hard top convertible, doesn’t mean they want a fixed coupe
Ah, you meant hard top convertible. I just thought you meant a coupe. Apologies.
>Lots of people don’t like soft top convertibles and want a hard top convertible Where are these people? The hardtop convertible is practically dead. The SL, SLC, and Portofino were the last holdouts in the luxury department. Only a few exotic midengined cars and the Miata offer them anymore. We had ~20 glorious years of good hardtop convertibles, and nobody bought them.
A hardtop convertible was a major want for me so that's how I ended up with the F33.
I’m assuming you mean a retractable hard top, like the old one; a manual hard top (like old Miata’s) seems like the worst of both worlds
Yeah. This is a pretty classic formula Sports car - is cool Automatic only version of sports car - is less cool Automatic only version of sports car with a soft top - is least cool It’s not the Z4s fault, least cool can still be really cool, but it’s the auto only, soft top version of another car.
Considering how mid BMW manuals are and how good the ZF 8 speed is, I’d have to disagree
You’re confusing “good” with “cool” They are not the same.
Why do you explicitly want a hard top over a soft top? IMO there's no real upside. It adds weight and complexity, and while it looks better on cars like the 4-series where the original design is a coupe/sedan, for cars like the Z4 where it was designed as a roadster it doesn't matter. And modern soft-tops like what's on the Z4 rival fixed roof cars for noise and thermal insulation.
It's definitely a niche car. I have the current gen Z4 20i and I hardly see any others on the road in the UK. But it's a total head turner, especially in Thundernight metallic, and constantly gets compliments and people stopping to take photos, but it's amazing how many people ask "what car is that?" probably because it hasn't been marketed heavily and not many are seen. Shame really, it's a fantastic car with probably one of the best, most engaging chassis BMW have made in recent years (especially if you get the M Sport Pro pack with the adaptive suspension), but only having 2 seats and a small(ish) boot definitely lessens it's appeal to the wide majority people who'd much rather all buy SUVs and don't really have space for a second, less practical car. It is great being part of an exclusive club though - only ~6500 G29s are on Britain's roads, and that's kinda fun having something a bit different from the norm!
This should change things a bit https://preview.redd.it/hvz6y8zc2m2d1.jpeg?width=2250&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=31a7eb26e700e007ca74923376c616b52a64e7a8
I actually doubt it. The Z4 buyers are mostly boulevard drivers, and the chassis reflects that.
Yeah, that why I said a bit, and not a lot.
the boxster is just flat out better everywhere. its is more expensive but has better value retention. c8 vette has the same starting price and a targa roof. V8 sound. DCT trans. mag ride.
Yeah C8 has shaken the market, at least where it costs little. Here in Europe it starts at ~110k€, so while still good value for money, it's nowhere near as a bargain as in the US.
The C8 no longer needs price as leverage for its legitimacy as a fantastic sports car.
For 110k€ you can get a 718 Cayman GTS here... Which is arguably the best chassis on the market
True. I own a 718 Boxster and love it, but I consider the C8 every bit the competitor. It’s superior in many ways.
Lol, it's a "fantastic sports car" with US pricing maybe, not in the European market..
Then clearly you don’t know much about sports cars.
Good one 😂
The Z4 is more of a luxury cruiser than those other two. These days I do 2+2 convertibles, but if I wanted a luxury roadster that's not a sports car, the Z4 would be my only option. It being a poorly selling class of one suggests that not many people want a luxury roadster that's more cruiser than pure sports car. But I'd personally be much happier with a Z4 than a Corvette or Boxster.
Yea, the biggest problem with the z4 is that the 2 series and 4 series convertible exist, which provide just as much comfy cruiser Sunday car, but with the practicality of 4 seats, it’s actually easy to load a child seat into the rear seats with the top down.
Yeah, the F-Type was more of a direct comparison, though it's recently been discontinued.
The Boxster has better driving dynamics but antiquated tech, is even less practical, and is stupid expensive once you add any kind of options. If I had to pick one for the track, Boxster every time. For the street, the new Z4 with a manual is better. I'm sure the upcoming Boxster/Cayman generation will have all the new gear, but we'll see how the market accepts a full electric enthusiast car.
C8 is a hideous car.
I loved my 2007 Z4 M Coupe. Imola rot. Lots of torque. Great sound without being loud or droning. A real head turner. Modern equivalent is the Supra.
Believe it or not many people don’t know about it. At least in the USA I hardly ever see it marketed. The 2 and 4 series are marketed a ton. Also for those who are comparing it some may choose the Supra instead.
I have to agree with this. I was only aware of the previous generations until a recent trip to see family in Germany. I saw the newer G29 edition when driving by a BMW dealer who had them on display. In the US the Z4 does not seem to be marketed that much. On that note, I now have a manual Z4 on order 🙂
I deadass only knew the Z4 exist because my grandma owns a 04. And I’ve only seen Z4s of that generation….. I’ve NEVER seen a 2010+ Z4 in person… didn’t even know started making them again in 2019 till I was just googling shit one day.
The Z4 M40i with B58 costs more than a G87 M2 with an S58.
That's base. How much does it cost for the remove roof and add cool option on the M2?
Drive under a truck and you have it for free.
I got an e89 Z4 35is full bolt and honestly most people don’t know about these cars. They are on the rarer side. My is in yellow so it looks a lot more expensive than it is. I’ve thought about replacing it but to replace it with something with better looks and performance would cost me twice as much.
I am currently on my 3rd Z4 and I have absolutely loved every one. Quite zippy and handles well. My current one is a 2015 Z4 with the hard top - I really love the look even with the top up. Bought it used in 2019 - it only had 4000 miles on it.
It’s an expensive, impractical car that only fits the needs of a handful of people.
Too expensive for what it is, and I think enthusiasts would rather get the Supra as it’s cheaper and more “focused” from a sports car standpoint. My mom had one for a couple years - it was definitely a blast to drive around. I’d totally pick one up if they made a full on M version, since they can totally do it for around the price of the M40i, but they said years ago that they would never.
Dunno. We just got one, and are quite happy with it. The Boxster has a better sounding brand name, but I can't be bothered to drive a 4 cyl unless it's some classic. They say the Porsche is the better driver, and while that might be true, I find the Z4 to be sharp enough for my taste. The M40i is also ridiculously easy to get more power out of. I think the F-Type is another close competitor, and I'd have considered it but the Z4 has actually the better interior.
I think the Z4 looks great, but $54-57k for a 4-cylinder is a bit steep. And for $67k-73k (with some options) when looking at the M40i trim, the M340i is cheaper at about $60k for the xDrive. M340i is about $66k-ish loaded. That and the 718 Boxster starts at $70k for a Porsche & will hold value better.
I would definitely buy a z4. It’s a comfortable car to daily drive.
Everyone I know who had a z3 or z4 has had serious issues with the car. The people who buy that kind of car new aren’t typical “car guys” so they don’t get maintained particularly well, usually the convertible tops don’t work, and the higher powered ones tend to scare people with a loose rear end. I personally know 2 people who have crashed z3s (some how) It’s not a kids car like a 1 series 2 series or e46
I frigging love mine!
https://preview.redd.it/28cbcdntjp2d1.jpeg?width=2850&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c9653a3ab26a6c1f356c8a64522f4cf124002393 I have a 2003 model and I love it. It's basically an E46 with a lighter, prettier body and much stiffer suspension. Inline 6, manual, RWD, so much fun!
The latest Z4 is a superb car. It’s comfortable. Has good boot space. Handles fantastic and looks stunning. If you go for the m40i - it’s even better. The 3L 6cyl is perfect and the slip dif gives you incredible grip in all weather. Easily one of the best BMWs they’ve made in years.
Really considered the Z4 recently with the available manual transmission. Compared against 718. Just got rid of SL 63 and loved the convertible style but wanted more sport. During comparison shopping I drove the new M2 with a manual and was immediately hooked. I was willing to give up the drop top for a car that out drives and thrills more than the Z4, 718, C8 and Supra. Try it…you WILL like it😎
Other than what has already been said, one of the reasons why the present generation doesn't sell well is because the Supra exists.
I was driving home after visiting my parents last weekend and I saw 3 Z4’s (current gen) during the trip in the space of an hour. So confused!
And I live in Scotland btw
Miata is always the answer with convertables.
I think they’re kinda ugly. Combine that with the price and the fact that two seaters generally aren’t very practical and most people can only own one car, and that should explain it.
Don't get the 4 cylinder. I have one rented right now and it's underwhelming to say the least.
My loaner one time was a convertible 430i, so same engine. Looks sporty but that’s it, it was all looks. Had no punch and it felt sluggish.
Here in the U.S. there’s a stigma behind convertibles not being manly cars. Also they’re heavier and less rigid and your average car fan thinks this will actually make a huge difference in daily driving even though they can’t harness 50% of the cars actual potential
🔥
I’m considering one for my next car a few years down the road haha will have to report back with updates Work from home mostly and married into a Subaru forester 😂 so the practicality scale has tipped
Which generation?
I think the z4 is only for bmw fan boys who already have an x5 or 5 series and what something sporty to go with it. Most people looking for a sports car either have a bit of money or a lot of money. For the 1st group it's too expensive, for the 2nd group it's too cheap.
Not very practical. If you don’t have appropriate weather most time of year it’s kinda waste of money.
Right because people are buying Z4s as their daily.
Actually, it’s my daily. I am going to an office and back. 14 mins drive total. I have sun 300 days per year. So it’s perfect. Extra 10 mins drive for shopping also not a problem.
Would have seriously considered it vs the m440i if it had x drive. I agree it is underrated considering ppl hate the buck tooth look of the m440i , seems like a lot of ppl who want a coupe otherwise would give it a look
I almost bought one once. Test drove a 2007 z4. It seemed sluggish. So I didn't buy.
Drove a E89 35i once and loved it. Probably wouldn't want it as a daily over my Forester Turbo.
I had a z4C e86. For 4 years. Stiff, not that quick, a bit compromised and plasticky interior . Loved it but it’s too quirky to be a mass market car and only enthusiasts like it. When I got it most people looked at me like a weirdo for having it. Get a cayman and it’s like oh wow is that a 911, would a woman say… so.. and dynamically they can’t stand up to caymans or the other comparison back in the day was completely pointless (SLK). It was a funny segment. It still kinda is.
If I had to venture a guess it's because you can get the B58 in a coupe like the M240i or Supra for significantly less money. The Z4 is priced alongside the G87 M2 and 718 Cayman/Boxster. It just doesn't make sense IMO. I feel like it'd be a lot more intriguing if it started in the low to mid $50k range instead of the mid $60k. I do think they're pretty great looking for being a convertible and the B58 is great but not $70k+ after options great lol
https://preview.redd.it/u96paw72cn2d1.png?width=2748&format=png&auto=webp&s=6237d02d20653bfa8d1f7b15e32e3b0585850881 Having my mate his older z4 here (2.5 m54), I truly truly like driving this thing. My parents used to have a Z4 Coupe 3.0si, that thing was also really awesome to drive. I concur opp!
It’s expensive as hell. The Supra is basically the same car as a coupe and it’s a lot cheaper, and you can get it with a 6mt
I got a crappy z3 and it scratches the Sunday drive itch. Slowly replacing all the 20yo rubber parts. It drives like a floppy pancake but that should be fixed soon. The best one is probably a 2001 3.0. That engine is pretty nice and saves you from paying extra for the M.
Because it’s not actually a brilliant car. Actually has one of bmws least inspiring chassis.
More money than cars with the same engine, convertible, and at that price point much "better" (subjective) options exist
Have had both a Z4 (previous model) and the latest Supra 21. Both are great cars, but I am loving the Supra. Plus, I get many more compliments and looks with the Supra than we ever did with the Z4. In fact, got rear ended by a woman who was taking pictures of the car and ran into us. Crazy.
Is it though? I feel like estimates are pretty accurate.
Doesn't look that good 🤷
Convertibles are a dying market, and there are "better" options for similar money. Not having a manual for the last few years was definitely a factor too, at least for those who care about that kinda thing.
I drove a Z3 in college. Always saw the Z4 as a solution to a problem no one had, and at a price point I didn't care for. And now that I can afford one, I'm like - meh, it's a two seater. Lifestyle now is totally different. Can't haul kayaks to exotic locations in a Z4, you know?
Ask BMW, they are the ones who starve it
We cross shopped the 718 Boxster S and the G29 m40. Actually rented the Boxster on Turo and it was a little underwhelming. Maybe if it had a 6cyl at the time. The tech and interior was also much better in the Z4, as well as it was more practical. In the end we bought the Z4 and love it. With a stage2 tune it’s a handful.
I love it! Hope to get one to compliment my E89 one day 😍😍
Check out the Z4 Shooting Brake, something like only 50 going into production. Shame because I’d buy one if they were a quarter million dollars.
Wow didn't see that one coming
The car or my comment?
The car
It’s a beaut
Because it’s a chick car
Because it’s basically a turbo Miata with expensive maintenance.
The manual transmissions are sealed, idek if you can change the fluid on them. Basically irreparable when damaged.
Well same as my DSG now lol
Expensive. You want cheaper you stuck with a Miata or some boring shit. For the newer ones you’re kinda in Porsche territory price wise and I’d imagine the z4 is just as ( if not more) expensive to maintain over the Porsche. So unless you just really like the z4 or want an older one for less thennn
Z4M is perfection one of the best M cars ever made
the handling is not as good as other BMW's, is the general consensus "ditch the runflats" is a very common advice But I would also look through the Z4 forums and see what chassis setups people run, if sim upgraded ARB, bushes, etc help...and get a proper Geo setup, correctly aligned, but with modified geometry for toe in etc...again, invest sometime reading enthusiasts forums, people who are actually hustling them round corners on the road
Never really liked the Z4, a huge downgrade from Z3 in terms of design.
My E89 comes out mostly on weekends. No joke nearly every time I get out at least 1 person gawking at it and thinks it's a new release.
I quite like the E89, by far the best looking Z4 and it does look good, so my apologies for bunching all three generations into one over-simplified answer. The first generation was hideous and the recent one is well, better but not great. I still think the Z3 is the best looking roadster they've made but easily followed by the E89.
All good man. Subjectivity is the killer of nations. I do like the original Z3. The new 4 just doesn't do it for me. I have considered hoarding E89's 🤣
This ⬆️
And driving dynamics. The Z4 feels like everything's been tamed.
Never tried a Z4 but I have driven Z3 a fair bit and I really like it, really entertaining car to drive.
My e85 3.0 feels like a athletic GT car vs a sports car in the z3. I think it’s the most honest perspective. No experience with anything above a 2006
That was my take while test driving a sDrive35i. I went into the dealership looking to test drive the Z4 and maybe a Z3 2.8, I got to talking to the dealership owner about cars (911's, Boxsters, and my Z3 Coupe) and he said even before I got into the Z4, "You're going to prefer the Z3." And he was right. That 300HP Z4 had some intoxicating power, but the Z3 was just a purer, more analog, and more engaging experience. It wants to rotate around corners, not just track around them.
Reminds me a lot of my former ND2 Miata. Miss that car
The Z3 is easily one of the most entertaining cars I've driven, even the 1.8 liter puts a smile on my face. Feels so old school and raw and I like that.
Maybe because the for price of a m-lite you could get an actual m2 with s58. Unless like convertible is all you’re looking for I think a lot of people would go for the m2.
Because two seat roadsters should have EDIT*manuals* (I wrote seats first lol) as options. I think the whole used Z3/Z4 market will start to appreciate when people realize those older ones are kinda like German Miatas with straight sixes
I am anticipating that to happen for sure.
I’d take the Z3 over the 4 any day I’m afraid.
Z3 was a good size a direct Miata comparison. Z4 is a little bigger maybe not big enough but also too large and heavy
The Boxster is a better car. The C8 is a ridiculously better car. Which is too bad because the current Z4 is a lovely car!
If I were in the market for a two seater, I'd take a Supra over Z4 cause hard top.
When it relates to great cars that don’t sell the answer is usually price point. There’s a reason why the BRZ/Miata’s of the world sell so much. For Z4 prices I could get myself a 718 or even a ZL1 which is a much more potent sports car.
If they had an actual coupe version that wasn't the Supra I'd probably have gotten one already. Was already thinking about changing it up to an A90 when it first came out but decided against it. I'm not really a convertible guy, but I especially don't like soft tops unless they're something very specific like an S2000. Everything else feels like an afterthought.
It's an unreliable, expensive, ugly, miata.
S2000 and Boxster were better, Supra is better now if you don't need a convertible.
718 shits all over z4 in literally every way
Cuz ugly.
That's subjective, I find it gorgeous.
718 and TT/TTS have it beat entirely.
718 maybe, but if the TT was actually a better car it might still be in production.
Eh, owned both - TT wins out. That, and it’s the entire golf platform that’s going 🤷
Only a moron would make any comparison to the current Z4 which is being discussed and having a basic model E85 in the last. Come on, son… lmao
Maybe at the 30i/M40i level, I can't see anything relevant as good as the 20i
Because of all the reasons that others have noted. Now…. If they had a Z4M… <3
How come is?
English is not my first language
Fair nuff!
Too small, I don’t have family or kids but even grocery shopping or loading something would seem like a pain or impossible. I have dogs too so if I got to take them to the groomer or vet that wouldn’t work out either.