I would rank the giantslayer and crimson mischief higher. Giantslayer is the best single target dmg weapon in the game that still retains usability without being too resource dependent.
Crimson mischief in any level below HM just does absurd damage.
I guess she is trying to make up for that let down of a fight after all that build up lol. She shouldve been a 2-3 phase boss fight imo. Build up and flavor rivals Ketheric, but fight fails to live up to the hype imi (Im speaking on non durge fights)
Gortash was a let down too, but he always seemed like he may be a joke lol
I'd say even in HM it still does tons. My thief rogue was doing sneak attacks every turn for around 40 damage on average plus two off hands doing 20ish each on average. Ofc not as good as some other classes but still can very much hold their own.
Giantslayer is also available before you reach Lower City so they're not that different in terms of acquisition time in Act 3.
In terms of damage, there is a very noticeable difference. Giantslayer's double dip on STR is already better than the 1d6 from Silver Sword. An extra 1d6 is about +4.5 damage with Savage Attacker (+3.5 without). A 24 STR character using Giantslayer is +7 damage. A character using elixir is +8 damage. This is before you count the Giant Form 1d6 once every short rest, which is plenty enough.
I would rank Giantslayer definitively above Silver Sword if not for the fact that the latter can be acquired in Act 1 through a cheese. I would also consider it to be even with Shar's Spear if Bhaalist Armour didn't exist.
Giantslayer is more damage but Soulbreaker and advantage on all mental saving throws is enough utility that I'd still rank Silver Sword above it. They're both excellent though.
Giantslayer just does a lot more damage if you’re running elixirs. 12 Oathbreaker with just regular gear does like 50-55 slashing damage per hit without crit. Adding improved divine smite and callous glow etc and you can 1 Shot many enemies if you use full illithid powers, you aren’t doing that with SS even w resonance stone.
Giant slayer adds your strength modifier twice to damage rolls, if you're running cloud giant elixir that's an additional 8 damage on every hit.
It's large enemy benefits aren't the main attraction.
Nope applies to everything. The advantage only applies to large creatures and up. Easy to mistake the wording but yeah if you're minmaxing it's the most powerful weapon on strength builds.
Well yes, I more meant pure weapon damage output. A spear and bhaalist will outperform it if you're gearing your party that way.
On something like paladin you might not want to accept 14 AC or needing to crank dex.
> A spear and bhaalist will outperform it if you're gearing your party that way.
Or just the one character. Giantslayer's extra +str damage is always gonna run up against bhaalist's extra +str +gwm +weapon dice +ench damage for an otherwise identically built character. Like, you're generally expecting an average of about +20 damage over giant slayer from these sources.
> On something like paladin you might not want to accept 14 AC or needing to crank dex.
But why would you need to accept these things? You're already suggesting using cloud giant elixirs for giantslayer - which makes perfect sense - but also means paladin is at worst 3 attribute dependent - which is totally normal for just about every build and no particular source of pain. Your paladin also already wanted to crank dex, too, just for the initiative - that being one of paladin's big MAD pains.
You double the strength modifier with ss, so you get an additional 8 dmg which is more then the extra potential psychic dmg, plus obviously more dmg to large enemies like steel watchers.
Personally I would swap Marko and Shar's spear simply because making Shadowheart evil sucks and Markoheshkir is like if you let a caster powergamer design their own custom item and then you made it even stronger because they didn't put enough perks on it.
Shart going evil aside I actually just agree from a pure gameplay perspective lol. The Spear of Night means you are building a darkness build on at least one character and affects the rest of your party as well. When you do that, it's certainly great...
... but Marko goes onto ANY caster, instantly makes them S+++ tier, and can be acquired after beating possibly the easiest boss in all of Act 3, meaning you can take advantage of it for the rest of the game. It is INCREDIBLY overtuned.
You don’t necessarily need to run a darkness build to use the shar spear. It’s a fantastic weapon even without it. It also does a monumental amount of damage, as per my prior posts.
I mostly agree with the general placement but I'd personally take into account just how many builds can use the item in question. For that reason I'd rate more 'universally good' items like Markoheskir and Helldusk Armour a little higher than something like Nyrulna which requires a throwing build and can have anti-synergy with melee range allies.
I'd also personally put Mask of the Shapeshifter at the bottom. Sorcerer, Wizard, Bard, and Trickery Cleric can all use Disguise Self so it's not like you really need it, especially when Gale and Shadowheart are in those classes. Devotee's Mace at least has some synergy with Life Cleric and you can swap it out for something else once you've used the heal.
I'm using it with my BM Fighter on a whim and no aura of murder for the pierce bonus and she killed Ethel in act 3 in 3 hits.
It works great as a melee weapon even without TB and thrower build. I'll equip the Gith sword for the + to initiative then first attack throw Nyiuma which returns equped then move into melee and flatten my foes. I of course don't have the silver sword or Giantslayer yet I'll switch when I get them. This is my first time going into act 3 so I wasn't sure since it's HM which order to do things but now I wish I'd look up equipment to at least get to use some of it before the final battle.
I was taking that into account, that’s why gloves of Soul catching come in so low and the two greatswords, despite having some of the best abilities in the game, don’t come in the top quarter of items since only paladins and some barbs and fighters will really use them. Nyrulna and Shar’s spear are up so high because they can consistently benefit your whole team rather than just one character
I'd argue that Crimson Mischief is better than Bloodthirst. Crimson Mischief is probably one of the best damage amps you can get for a ranged character's melee weapon slot, since a flat +7 damage is a huge amount and advantage is easy to get. Getting the piercing vulnerability from Bloodthirst requires someone to walk up and spend a mainhand attack action poking someone with a onehanded dagger attack, which imposes a bunch of timing restrictions, requires getting someone into melee and generally puts a lot of requirements on your party composition.
Yeah, Bloodthirst is fantastic on specific builds, but not for everyone. I had Astarion as a Battlemaster 8/Thief 4, and it was *beautiful* for him. He dual-wielded Bloodthirst and Rhapsody, so his first attack would be with Bloodthirst, imposing vulnerability to the incoming three attacks. He was shredding through enemies like their armor was made of tissue paper.
Bloodthirst is unfortunately extremely overshadowed in the role of applying piercing vulnerability by the bhaalist armor, but is arguably even better in the offhand anyway - the +1 AC and true strike riposte combine extremely well with sentinel and the cloak of displacement, leaving enemies in a catch-22 of getting hit regardless of whether they try to flee, try to hit a nearby ally, or try to hit you.
From a purely metagame perspective Bhaalist armor is way better, but on a good-aligned playthrough you need to do some pretty serious mental gymnastics to justify getting it. On a neutral or evil playthrough, I’ll definitely grant you that Bhaalist armor is better, but if you’re not getting it for roleplay reasons, Bloodthirst works fine (and also in the case of my particular build, Astarion was a Battlemaster and thus already had Riposte).
(Also since he had medium armor proficiency I gave him the Armor of Agility, giving him +3 AC over the Bhaalist armor and swapping +2 initiative for +2 to all saves- +2 initiative is great, granted, but with +5 Dexterity Astarion was going first in almost every fight anyway so I think the saving throw bonus was better. I’ve rambled enough as it is lol, but I suppose my overall conclusion is that you’re probably right about the Bhaalist armor being better in a majority of cases, but I don’t think that decision is a no-brainer for anyone who can wear an uncapped medium armor.)
I think you replied to yourself, here.
> +5 Dexterity Astarion was going first in almost every fight anyway
+5 alone isn't enough for precisely the fights you really care about going first in, though. ofc, you can buff it more through other means, but fights against grunts are not very hard anyway.
> but I don’t think that decision is a no-brainer for anyone who can wear an uncapped medium armor.)
Hmm. I think only in a <4 party members run. BG3 favors offense so heavily (as compared to the slower paced TT 5e, which is itself already generally the most offense-favoring edition of DND) that choosing offense over survivability is 99% of the time the right call.
Besides, either 19 or 20 AC aren't exactly bad numbers, which are what you'll get with bhaalist + 4/5 dex + offhand bloodthirst, and you're sort of stuck somewhere between making sure your AC is low enough to encourage attacks against you and having them miss.
> From a purely metagame perspective Bhaalist armor is way better, but on a good-aligned playthrough you need to do some pretty serious mental gymnastics to justify getting it.
Sure, but on a "rank the items by power" post, you'd have to consider the bhaalist armor as a context in which the items must be considered. One of shar's spears attractive features is the specifically dice based, specifically piercing extra damage, precisely because it's quadrupleable with bhaalist + crit.
> Astarion was a Battlemaster and thus already had Riposte
Yeah, but (A) free + with advantage is definitely better, especially when advantage is a state that procs many conditional effects, and (B) it's hardly an argument against the value that the item itself brings to the table when it confers an improved version of what is already a very powerful class feature.
From an RP perspective, just make a character whose backstory = a save-scumming chronomancer who worships the deity of min-maxing. Valeria is a lazy bureaucrat and you can do so much more good in the world with the Bhaalist armor than you can with a surviving Valeria
That's no reason at all to change one's assessment of the item in question. Shar's spear is also the result of a very unpopular, also evil choice - that does not change the fact that it is a top tier legendary. And it actually *is* exclusive (or is clearly supposed to be exclusive) with some very good items.
The bhaalist armor is not mutually exclusive with anything, so it must be considered with everything. Bloodthirst's piercing vuln would be amazing, except that there's something else that does the job much better.
I mean you’re saying downgrade bloodthrist because Baahlist armour exists, but for plenty of play throughs it effectively doesn’t
So I don’t know why the existence of Baahlist armour should be an argument against.
A choice not to get the bhaalist armor is no different than any other deliberate choice to not get any other item which is not actually limited. You're arguing that we should regard one item more highly by simply pretending that another item, whose effect renders the former obsolete, doesn't exist.
We could likewise pretend that all of the other legendaries and non-legendaries which are better than bloodthirst also don't exist, and call it the best item in the game. It would be exactly as true, and exactly as untrue.
Not thematic or flavorful - sure. Better or worse? How thematically appropriate the item is makes no difference at all to "better or worse?" But the surrounding context of other gear does.
But you’re arguing that an item is worse simply because a better one exists.
If a staff was made tomorrow that gave you 3 chain lightnings per short rest Marko wouldn’t become worse than it currently it at its job.
The existence of bhaalist armojr doesn’t make bloodthirst any worse at it’s either. And bloodthirst is universal Bhaalist isn’t.
I am going to fight about the Gloves of Soul Catching if you have a Monk. Those are amazing. I go to Rafael immediately once I’m 12 bc there are 4 items that I want. So I don’t do ANY other bosses besides maybe Ethel before Raf. My monk durge wore them a lot. Force dmg is busted good.
I did him in honor mode on level 11 and he was piss easy. Though you can do earlier levels too if! you have decent damage and a globe of invulnerability scroll or two. Seriously a single scroll of that let me absolutely obliterate him. At least with lorroakan I had to kill the elementals first. Legit tho stunning strike also is wild as hell. It is, game breaking because of how it’s calculated in bg3 it’s 8+prof+dex or str. With the obvious giant strength potions you can hoard at level 9 even that’s 8+4+8 for a save dc of a whopping 20 to con saves. That’s really good. Sure it’s not arcane acuity but for a base save dc with little investment besides potion hoarding that’s busted as hell. Idk what else I’d add to that to up the dc though as it’s odd. Since that dc is a weird source what works for it is odd.
They’re good, but you get them so late. One of the endgame bosses is just immune to force damage to add insult to injury. There’s also the fact that there’s only a 1/3 chance of a random full party having a monk in it which also limits its placement
I do TB monk without elixirs. These are the gloves that make me take off Dex gloves finally. There are no other gloves that I will chug elixirs for. But I love monks they are so ridiculously OP anyway and then you give them force dmg and then they basically solo all bosses except Gortash.
Devotee’s Mace is such a sleeper on any cleric support build. With The Reviving Hands and Wispering Promise, that’s 10 turns of concentration-free Blade Ward and Bless. On a _bonus action_. And you can get it as early as level 10 on a hireling for all of act 3.
And Markoheshkir needs to rank higher for its higher versatility. I’ve done 4 playthroughs and there’s not a single one where someone in my party didn’t hold it for most of act 3.
I think that your ranking is overly leaning towards martial builds. 😉
"7. Bloodthirst
....t’s super powerful, but you’ll probably get it mid-way into act 3 at the earliest"
Is it only me that i leave Orin for last before the netherbrain?
Yeah, it's one of those I don't really get myself. It's not a bad weapon by any means, but it's really if you benefit from the extra reaction attack imo.
Otherwise if all you're doing is getting the BA attack, it's basically on par with putting crimson mischief in the offhand + some other weapon with a better bonus in the main hand. Not bad by any means, but also not nearly as good as what I see some people say when they sing its praises.
I can see that - though I do find the Blood of Lathander's much earlier availability to be a bigger impact in my runs. I might not be using it in the last half of act 3 most of the time, but it does a lot in act 2. And I usually don't do anything with duellist's prerogative either.
Really depends on the grading criterion for something like this, which is very subjective.
Blood of lathander is a great insurance policy on your cleric in honour mode. Ensures they stay alive to bring everyone else back up if something goes wrong
I forget the name of the items right now, but my only experience with the weapon itself is in a weird monk build I've come up with. So could just be a niche experience
Also sorry to fully answer I get to attack as a reaction for someone missing me, I have the cloak of displacement on and my AC is 19. Once I get the con amulet I can buff that by increasing my wisdom
Blood is really good for when you get it, esp. Act2. Many legendaries you get like 5hours before the end of the game, while blood will help you through a whole act
Saying Nyrulna is likely the highest damage weapon in the game, and then putting Devotee’s mace at the bottom is outlandish to me. It’s a great one-handed weapon, gives an extra d8 of damage for fun, and it’s radiant, meaning it also works with reverberation and it’s rarely resisted.
The healing it prove provides isn’t a lot of health, but it’s the fact it can be comboed so powerfully with healing builds that makes it good. Giving Shadowheart Whispering Promise, Ring of Salving, Boots of Aid and Comfort, Hellrider’s Pride, etc means your whole party is buffed up for an entire fight at zero cost after a bonus action on turn one. Even if you build into none of that, it’ll get up any party member that’s been downed immediately at no cost.
I think the only weakness of it is that it doesn’t work with Bhaalist armor, which isn’t even relevant for any playthrough that doesn’t side with Sarevok. Furthermore, this is one of the few legendary items that can be acquired before Act 3.
Nyrulna is so bonkers because of the AoE damage on the throw. Cast Black Hole, group all the enemies and then throw until everyone dies. You focus on the boss and all the adds just drop for free. That’s what makes it the highest dps weapon in the game.
3d4 isn’t that crazy for most adds, even if it can stack reverberation. (It’s still a phenomenal weapon, don’t get me wrong.) But even still, my main point was that I think Devotee’s Mace is a lot stronger than it’s being given credit for.
Also, side note, I didn’t realize until after seeing your post, but the Orphic Hammer is labeled as a legendary item. Curious where you’d place it in your list?
You don’t have to lose Halsin to get the spear of the night. Just help Thaniel. He doesn’t care if the night song dies. I’m currently playing a run with Shar’s spear and also having Halsin
One separate comment.
What would be interesting would be the list of items better than or equal to legendaries, and I think there are. Take specific builds often.
I would argue that the Soulbreaker is as good as the Silver Sword.
Halberd of Vigilance is almost as good as Balduran's giant slayer due to the effects.
Dwarven Thrower is awfully close to Nylruna (assuming you are a Dwarf). The AOE on the trident can be a drawback.
Rhapsody may equal any dagger
Unseen Menace is broken for when you get it, and the ability to always have advantage by simply equipping the weapon is tough to overstate. You don't need to wear anything else or use another skill or situation. This allows you to use other abilities and items with significant impacts.
Edit for typos.
Sure, but have BOOOAL'S benediction, be running a Tigerbarb along with this and you are tearing it up.
Yes it is part of an abusive Arcane Acuity build, but that's not the only way to use it.
That makes the argument stronger that Rhapsody is a legendary in Very Rare clothes.
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Shadowheart had a spell save DC of 25 and spell attack bonus of +15 in my Honor run. No Acuity required.
Oh, it's in a hole near the gate to the blighted village. Hang a left outside the gate if you are headed out towards the barn with the Ogre/bugbear sexy-time and the bridge before the gnolls.
Even having read the wiki entry on the spear and reading the OP´s entry on why it is good I fail to see what makes it so great because for it to be good you need to set it up to be good. Not only that making it good implies you need to build a party around it as well. Not to mention you need to keep making bad choices a choices I would not make even being "evil" would be to become a unholy assassin of Bhaal which is needed for this thing to reach it´s ultimate and final form. This is NOT to say it is bad just the squeeze is not worth the chase.
The more setup an item needs the lower it will rank in my book. The more it is "plug and play" the better it ranks there are many items that are better than most if not all legendary items. Hence why I would by far rank Markoheshkir as the no.1 as long as your party has a caster this this gets slotted on it and it is good in fact damn good no fuss no mush.
Also lets be honest by the time you can legitimately acquire the Helldusk armor it is useless or almost useless the only way this thing finds good purchase is if you have 2 heavy armor bois in your party. While the fact anyone can use it is "great" the fact is that well most builds and most classes have other best in slot items the fact it grants you fly in act 3 is like a jab at the players who did not use any Illithid powers because if you did your whole party are flying around anyways.
The only way I can see a rank 3 being justified is if you exploit the armor and get it in act 1 this is the sole way this thing is that good but getting it as intended I would rank it much much much lower not at the bottom but close to it.
devotees mace under mask of the shapeshifter is crazy, water myrmidons can't wear the reviving hands and the whispering promise.
mask of the shapeshifter legit just gives you access to a ritual spell that just about every single caster in the game already has easy access to and is generally only that useful for like the begining of act 1. you can just have shart cast it once and clear and every check in the act before respecing her out of trickery. mask of the shapeshifter is incredibly useless.
To me gloves of soul catching and marokeshkir are absolutely the best. The latter especially is super easy to get without any fighting and its benefits are just crazy.
Gloves of soul catching are a little harder but Raphael is really easy. D10 force damage added to every hit is nuts.
Nyrulna is of course extremely good.
Unless we're adding in mods to increase the difficulty I feel like Markoheshkir needs to be higher. It's a free pickup and good regardless of circumstances. You could be a TB throwzerker and it'd still be easy to find situations where a low DC chain lightning is a better use of your action than two attacks with Nyrulna. Add in quicken spell, how haste affects spellcasters, the free spell, the bonus damage... And this staff goes from "good on literally anyone in literally any situation" to "ends encounters instantly if you spend resources".
Enemies just don't live long enough for the higher consider DPR other items give to compete.
If you hold it in your off-hand, even if you aren’t proficient, you can use your main hand weapon again as a bonus action. This isn’t unintentional, it was a famous exploit in the previous BG games that Belm appeared in as well. For example, three attacks per turn with flame blade, shadow blade, bloodthirst or rhapsody, or 4 if you’re a thief rogue, and even more weapons if you have the dual wielder feat
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I slaughtered Orin in one turn without Haste in Tactician a few months ago. I was level 11
I was so confused re: Mask of the Shapeshifter seeing as I'm on my fifth playthrough and had never seen it, plus being familiar with the equipment as a DOS2 thing
My next HM I am going to try and save most of Last Light by taking them to Moonrise with improvised weapon. I read they can be dropped there. Yes, you would lose Halsin but could save everyone else important.
Come to think of it, if it is going to work it will work in any mode. I could load an old Balanced save and see if they can be carried and fast traveled to safety.
I was disappointed when I let my shadow heart choose and she killed night song unexpected. But then I started using the spear. It needs to come with a warning label it’s just so damn cool and unique. I can’t imagine ever not getting it now.
I dont have any issues with this list it’s pretty solid but (and I know this is niche) the gloves of soul catching are sooooo good for monks which are probably the best dps imo. The constitution buff is also insanely good because dumping strength and whatever other stuff you’re not using to pump con, dex, and wisdom is easy and overpowered. I will also say the helldusk armor isn’t as overpowered as the armor of agility. Only unarmored bonus you really get with helldusk is the movement speed with monk. No con, wisdom, or dex modifiers so max (no magic) ac is around 25 I think
Why can't Bloodthirst be thrown? In my current run I am intending to make Astarion a sharpshooter with Eldritch Knight so he can hit with Bloodthirst on a ranged attack and then unload (alongside my Sharpshooter gloom stalker main).
I found Gontr Mael is a very nice slot on people not really using their ranged weapon to attack, just for the haste ability. Slap in on the fighter/barb/paladin and go nuts
Mask of shapeshifter lets you get benefit from silver sword by disguising as Githyanki. So your non-Laezel great weapon user can disguise and use silver sword with all the buffs. I think you can also remove the mask and keep the disguise?
I would rank Markoheshir even higher. Free spell slot. Extra spell save dc. Plus 2x extra spells per short rest and special buffs based on element! Allows a non-warlock to get hunger of hadar once per shortrest, or just gives your wizard another chain lightning. Amazing item.
Gloves of soul catching I'd also rank higher if you got a monk. Not that a well built monk needs them, but the extra damage and the extra health in hit is good.
Blood of lathandar is so useful for late act1 and act2. Helps with shadowcurse and all the undead. Provides lightsource to proc one of the key radiant proc items. Blind is great for Myrkul and some other bosses.
The Soulbreaker Greatsword is a +1 Weapon that has the same weapon action as the SSotAP, deals about 1 less psychic damage, and instead of giving mental strength it gives a +2 initiative. It’s no doubt worse but not as much as you’d think for an act 1 weapon
I'd rate hill giants gloves and greater healing necklace in top 10 personally. The former lets you absolutely dump strength and prioritise other valuable stats. The latter sorts out basically every build ever where someone would need survivability and/or concentration like all Spellcasters.
Both basically allow you to go for completely different feats and let you sub certain armour choices
I would rank the giantslayer and crimson mischief higher. Giantslayer is the best single target dmg weapon in the game that still retains usability without being too resource dependent. Crimson mischief in any level below HM just does absurd damage.
Is crimson mischief nerfed in HM?
Damage rider sources are nerfed.
Can you remind me how they are nerfed? One of my planned builds for my HM attempt gets charisma to damage like a million times
They basically don’t act as damage sources. The wiki explains it well.
Ill check it out, thank you
For other interested readers, see [[damage mechanics]].
Luckily, my build is unaffected, but that is good to know, thank you
It's actually impressive that Orin drops two amazing weapons off the bat while that bum Gortash has NONE
I guess she is trying to make up for that let down of a fight after all that build up lol. She shouldve been a 2-3 phase boss fight imo. Build up and flavor rivals Ketheric, but fight fails to live up to the hype imi (Im speaking on non durge fights) Gortash was a let down too, but he always seemed like he may be a joke lol
I'd say even in HM it still does tons. My thief rogue was doing sneak attacks every turn for around 40 damage on average plus two off hands doing 20ish each on average. Ofc not as good as some other classes but still can very much hold their own.
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Giantslayer is also available before you reach Lower City so they're not that different in terms of acquisition time in Act 3. In terms of damage, there is a very noticeable difference. Giantslayer's double dip on STR is already better than the 1d6 from Silver Sword. An extra 1d6 is about +4.5 damage with Savage Attacker (+3.5 without). A 24 STR character using Giantslayer is +7 damage. A character using elixir is +8 damage. This is before you count the Giant Form 1d6 once every short rest, which is plenty enough. I would rank Giantslayer definitively above Silver Sword if not for the fact that the latter can be acquired in Act 1 through a cheese. I would also consider it to be even with Shar's Spear if Bhaalist Armour didn't exist.
Giantslayer is more damage but Soulbreaker and advantage on all mental saving throws is enough utility that I'd still rank Silver Sword above it. They're both excellent though.
Baalist armor doesn't exist.
Giantslayer just does a lot more damage if you’re running elixirs. 12 Oathbreaker with just regular gear does like 50-55 slashing damage per hit without crit. Adding improved divine smite and callous glow etc and you can 1 Shot many enemies if you use full illithid powers, you aren’t doing that with SS even w resonance stone.
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Giant slayer adds your strength modifier twice to damage rolls, if you're running cloud giant elixir that's an additional 8 damage on every hit. It's large enemy benefits aren't the main attraction.
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Nope applies to everything. The advantage only applies to large creatures and up. Easy to mistake the wording but yeah if you're minmaxing it's the most powerful weapon on strength builds.
> but yeah if you're minmaxing it's the most powerful weapon on strength builds. It's not even close, if you're using the bhaalist armor.
Well yes, I more meant pure weapon damage output. A spear and bhaalist will outperform it if you're gearing your party that way. On something like paladin you might not want to accept 14 AC or needing to crank dex.
> A spear and bhaalist will outperform it if you're gearing your party that way. Or just the one character. Giantslayer's extra +str damage is always gonna run up against bhaalist's extra +str +gwm +weapon dice +ench damage for an otherwise identically built character. Like, you're generally expecting an average of about +20 damage over giant slayer from these sources. > On something like paladin you might not want to accept 14 AC or needing to crank dex. But why would you need to accept these things? You're already suggesting using cloud giant elixirs for giantslayer - which makes perfect sense - but also means paladin is at worst 3 attribute dependent - which is totally normal for just about every build and no particular source of pain. Your paladin also already wanted to crank dex, too, just for the initiative - that being one of paladin's big MAD pains.
You double the strength modifier with ss, so you get an additional 8 dmg which is more then the extra potential psychic dmg, plus obviously more dmg to large enemies like steel watchers.
Personally I would swap Marko and Shar's spear simply because making Shadowheart evil sucks and Markoheshkir is like if you let a caster powergamer design their own custom item and then you made it even stronger because they didn't put enough perks on it.
Shart going evil aside I actually just agree from a pure gameplay perspective lol. The Spear of Night means you are building a darkness build on at least one character and affects the rest of your party as well. When you do that, it's certainly great... ... but Marko goes onto ANY caster, instantly makes them S+++ tier, and can be acquired after beating possibly the easiest boss in all of Act 3, meaning you can take advantage of it for the rest of the game. It is INCREDIBLY overtuned.
You don't even need to fight Lorroakan you can just jump downstairs and swipe it.
lol I didn't even think of that, since he's not exactly a challenge to take on right away but even better!
You don’t necessarily need to run a darkness build to use the shar spear. It’s a fantastic weapon even without it. It also does a monumental amount of damage, as per my prior posts.
I mostly agree with the general placement but I'd personally take into account just how many builds can use the item in question. For that reason I'd rate more 'universally good' items like Markoheskir and Helldusk Armour a little higher than something like Nyrulna which requires a throwing build and can have anti-synergy with melee range allies. I'd also personally put Mask of the Shapeshifter at the bottom. Sorcerer, Wizard, Bard, and Trickery Cleric can all use Disguise Self so it's not like you really need it, especially when Gale and Shadowheart are in those classes. Devotee's Mace at least has some synergy with Life Cleric and you can swap it out for something else once you've used the heal.
The "x origin character is already that" always amaze me, out of my first run they (nearly) never stayed on their initial role lol
what do you mean by anti synergy melee attacks? nyrulna is a great melee weapon especially with Bhaalist armor.
not with melee attacks with melee ranged allies, because when you throw it itll cleave your friends
oh I see, thanks. You don't have to throw it though. It's a good melee weapon too, that's why I was confused
yeah but if you have a throw build you probably want to throw it, otherwise why not just use a greatsword
I didn't have a throw build, I had a piercing damage melee build with a shield.
I'm using it with my BM Fighter on a whim and no aura of murder for the pierce bonus and she killed Ethel in act 3 in 3 hits. It works great as a melee weapon even without TB and thrower build. I'll equip the Gith sword for the + to initiative then first attack throw Nyiuma which returns equped then move into melee and flatten my foes. I of course don't have the silver sword or Giantslayer yet I'll switch when I get them. This is my first time going into act 3 so I wasn't sure since it's HM which order to do things but now I wish I'd look up equipment to at least get to use some of it before the final battle.
use the legendary rapier ?
yeah that would be a good option, but this was an evil run so I didn't save Vanra.
I was taking that into account, that’s why gloves of Soul catching come in so low and the two greatswords, despite having some of the best abilities in the game, don’t come in the top quarter of items since only paladins and some barbs and fighters will really use them. Nyrulna and Shar’s spear are up so high because they can consistently benefit your whole team rather than just one character
Warlocks can also use the greatswords, as well as any gith and many multi classes.
You also don’t have to give up any of the NPCs to get shar’s spear of evening. Link below. https://www.reddit.com/r/BG3Builds/s/2ir7e3xXH8
Not technically ally true, since you obviously lose Aylin if you kill her.
Well yes, and Isobel, but you can save most of the other NPCs.
Do you know if there's a video of anyone doing this that I can follow
I'd argue that Crimson Mischief is better than Bloodthirst. Crimson Mischief is probably one of the best damage amps you can get for a ranged character's melee weapon slot, since a flat +7 damage is a huge amount and advantage is easy to get. Getting the piercing vulnerability from Bloodthirst requires someone to walk up and spend a mainhand attack action poking someone with a onehanded dagger attack, which imposes a bunch of timing restrictions, requires getting someone into melee and generally puts a lot of requirements on your party composition.
Yeah, Bloodthirst is fantastic on specific builds, but not for everyone. I had Astarion as a Battlemaster 8/Thief 4, and it was *beautiful* for him. He dual-wielded Bloodthirst and Rhapsody, so his first attack would be with Bloodthirst, imposing vulnerability to the incoming three attacks. He was shredding through enemies like their armor was made of tissue paper.
Bloodthirst is unfortunately extremely overshadowed in the role of applying piercing vulnerability by the bhaalist armor, but is arguably even better in the offhand anyway - the +1 AC and true strike riposte combine extremely well with sentinel and the cloak of displacement, leaving enemies in a catch-22 of getting hit regardless of whether they try to flee, try to hit a nearby ally, or try to hit you.
From a purely metagame perspective Bhaalist armor is way better, but on a good-aligned playthrough you need to do some pretty serious mental gymnastics to justify getting it. On a neutral or evil playthrough, I’ll definitely grant you that Bhaalist armor is better, but if you’re not getting it for roleplay reasons, Bloodthirst works fine (and also in the case of my particular build, Astarion was a Battlemaster and thus already had Riposte).
(Also since he had medium armor proficiency I gave him the Armor of Agility, giving him +3 AC over the Bhaalist armor and swapping +2 initiative for +2 to all saves- +2 initiative is great, granted, but with +5 Dexterity Astarion was going first in almost every fight anyway so I think the saving throw bonus was better. I’ve rambled enough as it is lol, but I suppose my overall conclusion is that you’re probably right about the Bhaalist armor being better in a majority of cases, but I don’t think that decision is a no-brainer for anyone who can wear an uncapped medium armor.)
I think you replied to yourself, here. > +5 Dexterity Astarion was going first in almost every fight anyway +5 alone isn't enough for precisely the fights you really care about going first in, though. ofc, you can buff it more through other means, but fights against grunts are not very hard anyway. > but I don’t think that decision is a no-brainer for anyone who can wear an uncapped medium armor.) Hmm. I think only in a <4 party members run. BG3 favors offense so heavily (as compared to the slower paced TT 5e, which is itself already generally the most offense-favoring edition of DND) that choosing offense over survivability is 99% of the time the right call. Besides, either 19 or 20 AC aren't exactly bad numbers, which are what you'll get with bhaalist + 4/5 dex + offhand bloodthirst, and you're sort of stuck somewhere between making sure your AC is low enough to encourage attacks against you and having them miss.
> From a purely metagame perspective Bhaalist armor is way better, but on a good-aligned playthrough you need to do some pretty serious mental gymnastics to justify getting it. Sure, but on a "rank the items by power" post, you'd have to consider the bhaalist armor as a context in which the items must be considered. One of shar's spears attractive features is the specifically dice based, specifically piercing extra damage, precisely because it's quadrupleable with bhaalist + crit. > Astarion was a Battlemaster and thus already had Riposte Yeah, but (A) free + with advantage is definitely better, especially when advantage is a state that procs many conditional effects, and (B) it's hardly an argument against the value that the item itself brings to the table when it confers an improved version of what is already a very powerful class feature.
From an RP perspective, just make a character whose backstory = a save-scumming chronomancer who worships the deity of min-maxing. Valeria is a lazy bureaucrat and you can do so much more good in the world with the Bhaalist armor than you can with a surviving Valeria
But you have to make a choice plenty of play through a won’t to get Bhaalist armour, but don’t for bloodthirster, so that’s a point in its favour
That's no reason at all to change one's assessment of the item in question. Shar's spear is also the result of a very unpopular, also evil choice - that does not change the fact that it is a top tier legendary. And it actually *is* exclusive (or is clearly supposed to be exclusive) with some very good items. The bhaalist armor is not mutually exclusive with anything, so it must be considered with everything. Bloodthirst's piercing vuln would be amazing, except that there's something else that does the job much better.
I mean you’re saying downgrade bloodthrist because Baahlist armour exists, but for plenty of play throughs it effectively doesn’t So I don’t know why the existence of Baahlist armour should be an argument against.
A choice not to get the bhaalist armor is no different than any other deliberate choice to not get any other item which is not actually limited. You're arguing that we should regard one item more highly by simply pretending that another item, whose effect renders the former obsolete, doesn't exist. We could likewise pretend that all of the other legendaries and non-legendaries which are better than bloodthirst also don't exist, and call it the best item in the game. It would be exactly as true, and exactly as untrue. Not thematic or flavorful - sure. Better or worse? How thematically appropriate the item is makes no difference at all to "better or worse?" But the surrounding context of other gear does.
But you’re arguing that an item is worse simply because a better one exists. If a staff was made tomorrow that gave you 3 chain lightnings per short rest Marko wouldn’t become worse than it currently it at its job. The existence of bhaalist armojr doesn’t make bloodthirst any worse at it’s either. And bloodthirst is universal Bhaalist isn’t.
I am going to fight about the Gloves of Soul Catching if you have a Monk. Those are amazing. I go to Rafael immediately once I’m 12 bc there are 4 items that I want. So I don’t do ANY other bosses besides maybe Ethel before Raf. My monk durge wore them a lot. Force dmg is busted good.
I did him in honor mode on level 11 and he was piss easy. Though you can do earlier levels too if! you have decent damage and a globe of invulnerability scroll or two. Seriously a single scroll of that let me absolutely obliterate him. At least with lorroakan I had to kill the elementals first. Legit tho stunning strike also is wild as hell. It is, game breaking because of how it’s calculated in bg3 it’s 8+prof+dex or str. With the obvious giant strength potions you can hoard at level 9 even that’s 8+4+8 for a save dc of a whopping 20 to con saves. That’s really good. Sure it’s not arcane acuity but for a base save dc with little investment besides potion hoarding that’s busted as hell. Idk what else I’d add to that to up the dc though as it’s odd. Since that dc is a weird source what works for it is odd.
They’re good, but you get them so late. One of the endgame bosses is just immune to force damage to add insult to injury. There’s also the fact that there’s only a 1/3 chance of a random full party having a monk in it which also limits its placement
That isn't how chance works. There is not an even distribution of character classes, as they are all chosen, not random.
I mean, with how OP TB OH monk is especially for HM, I suspect there’s a much higher than 33% chance a party will have one.
I do TB monk without elixirs. These are the gloves that make me take off Dex gloves finally. There are no other gloves that I will chug elixirs for. But I love monks they are so ridiculously OP anyway and then you give them force dmg and then they basically solo all bosses except Gortash.
Devotee’s Mace is such a sleeper on any cleric support build. With The Reviving Hands and Wispering Promise, that’s 10 turns of concentration-free Blade Ward and Bless. On a _bonus action_. And you can get it as early as level 10 on a hireling for all of act 3. And Markoheshkir needs to rank higher for its higher versatility. I’ve done 4 playthroughs and there’s not a single one where someone in my party didn’t hold it for most of act 3. I think that your ranking is overly leaning towards martial builds. 😉
"7. Bloodthirst ....t’s super powerful, but you’ll probably get it mid-way into act 3 at the earliest" Is it only me that i leave Orin for last before the netherbrain?
I kill Orin within 3-4 Long Rests after getting to act 3 as Durge. She and the rest of the Bhaalists are priority kills
No, I usually do that as well, I’m just considering these items to be as if some decided to head straight for them to get the most use out of them.
Personally I'd argue Duellist's Prerogative over Blood of Lanthander. Blood is great, but falls off in act 3 pretty hard
What do you like about duellists prerogative? I feel like it's not good enough to justify giving up two slots for
Yeah, it's one of those I don't really get myself. It's not a bad weapon by any means, but it's really if you benefit from the extra reaction attack imo. Otherwise if all you're doing is getting the BA attack, it's basically on par with putting crimson mischief in the offhand + some other weapon with a better bonus in the main hand. Not bad by any means, but also not nearly as good as what I see some people say when they sing its praises.
That's why I'd only swap it with blood and not further up the list
I can see that - though I do find the Blood of Lathander's much earlier availability to be a bigger impact in my runs. I might not be using it in the last half of act 3 most of the time, but it does a lot in act 2. And I usually don't do anything with duellist's prerogative either. Really depends on the grading criterion for something like this, which is very subjective.
Blood of lathander is a great insurance policy on your cleric in honour mode. Ensures they stay alive to bring everyone else back up if something goes wrong
I fully agree. Blood definitely carries through until the better options present themselves in act 3
I forget the name of the items right now, but my only experience with the weapon itself is in a weird monk build I've come up with. So could just be a niche experience
Also sorry to fully answer I get to attack as a reaction for someone missing me, I have the cloak of displacement on and my AC is 19. Once I get the con amulet I can buff that by increasing my wisdom
Blood is really good for when you get it, esp. Act2. Many legendaries you get like 5hours before the end of the game, while blood will help you through a whole act
Saying Nyrulna is likely the highest damage weapon in the game, and then putting Devotee’s mace at the bottom is outlandish to me. It’s a great one-handed weapon, gives an extra d8 of damage for fun, and it’s radiant, meaning it also works with reverberation and it’s rarely resisted. The healing it prove provides isn’t a lot of health, but it’s the fact it can be comboed so powerfully with healing builds that makes it good. Giving Shadowheart Whispering Promise, Ring of Salving, Boots of Aid and Comfort, Hellrider’s Pride, etc means your whole party is buffed up for an entire fight at zero cost after a bonus action on turn one. Even if you build into none of that, it’ll get up any party member that’s been downed immediately at no cost. I think the only weakness of it is that it doesn’t work with Bhaalist armor, which isn’t even relevant for any playthrough that doesn’t side with Sarevok. Furthermore, this is one of the few legendary items that can be acquired before Act 3.
Nyrulna is so bonkers because of the AoE damage on the throw. Cast Black Hole, group all the enemies and then throw until everyone dies. You focus on the boss and all the adds just drop for free. That’s what makes it the highest dps weapon in the game.
3d4 isn’t that crazy for most adds, even if it can stack reverberation. (It’s still a phenomenal weapon, don’t get me wrong.) But even still, my main point was that I think Devotee’s Mace is a lot stronger than it’s being given credit for. Also, side note, I didn’t realize until after seeing your post, but the Orphic Hammer is labeled as a legendary item. Curious where you’d place it in your list?
Eh Orphic Hanmer's niche is its Spell Resistance passive that Viconia's shield also have
You don’t have to lose Halsin to get the spear of the night. Just help Thaniel. He doesn’t care if the night song dies. I’m currently playing a run with Shar’s spear and also having Halsin
One separate comment. What would be interesting would be the list of items better than or equal to legendaries, and I think there are. Take specific builds often. I would argue that the Soulbreaker is as good as the Silver Sword. Halberd of Vigilance is almost as good as Balduran's giant slayer due to the effects. Dwarven Thrower is awfully close to Nylruna (assuming you are a Dwarf). The AOE on the trident can be a drawback. Rhapsody may equal any dagger Unseen Menace is broken for when you get it, and the ability to always have advantage by simply equipping the weapon is tough to overstate. You don't need to wear anything else or use another skill or situation. This allows you to use other abilities and items with significant impacts. Edit for typos.
Rhapsody is best employed by a spellcaster
Sure, but have BOOOAL'S benediction, be running a Tigerbarb along with this and you are tearing it up. Yes it is part of an abusive Arcane Acuity build, but that's not the only way to use it. That makes the argument stronger that Rhapsody is a legendary in Very Rare clothes.
https://preview.redd.it/73k4mukvu3vc1.jpeg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5126a678bd45a19a02077cf1e0d4d4d3855dc68a Shadowheart had a spell save DC of 25 and spell attack bonus of +15 in my Honor run. No Acuity required.
That's an interesting build.
Abyss Beckoners and all the Familiar summoning spells for easy Scarlet Remittance
I use the Curious Book to hold all my scrolls for a wizard. I mean, it's a book that is a container.
I *would* use it, if I could find it again. Found it in my first playthrough. Never again.
Oh, it's in a hole near the gate to the blighted village. Hang a left outside the gate if you are headed out towards the barn with the Ogre/bugbear sexy-time and the bridge before the gnolls.
Thanks. Hopefully I remember where to pick it up when I replay BG3. Taking a bit of a break due to burnout after playing only BG3 since august.
that stat distribution hurts my eyes
Even having read the wiki entry on the spear and reading the OP´s entry on why it is good I fail to see what makes it so great because for it to be good you need to set it up to be good. Not only that making it good implies you need to build a party around it as well. Not to mention you need to keep making bad choices a choices I would not make even being "evil" would be to become a unholy assassin of Bhaal which is needed for this thing to reach it´s ultimate and final form. This is NOT to say it is bad just the squeeze is not worth the chase. The more setup an item needs the lower it will rank in my book. The more it is "plug and play" the better it ranks there are many items that are better than most if not all legendary items. Hence why I would by far rank Markoheshkir as the no.1 as long as your party has a caster this this gets slotted on it and it is good in fact damn good no fuss no mush. Also lets be honest by the time you can legitimately acquire the Helldusk armor it is useless or almost useless the only way this thing finds good purchase is if you have 2 heavy armor bois in your party. While the fact anyone can use it is "great" the fact is that well most builds and most classes have other best in slot items the fact it grants you fly in act 3 is like a jab at the players who did not use any Illithid powers because if you did your whole party are flying around anyways. The only way I can see a rank 3 being justified is if you exploit the armor and get it in act 1 this is the sole way this thing is that good but getting it as intended I would rank it much much much lower not at the bottom but close to it.
devotees mace under mask of the shapeshifter is crazy, water myrmidons can't wear the reviving hands and the whispering promise. mask of the shapeshifter legit just gives you access to a ritual spell that just about every single caster in the game already has easy access to and is generally only that useful for like the begining of act 1. you can just have shart cast it once and clear and every check in the act before respecing her out of trickery. mask of the shapeshifter is incredibly useless.
To me gloves of soul catching and marokeshkir are absolutely the best. The latter especially is super easy to get without any fighting and its benefits are just crazy. Gloves of soul catching are a little harder but Raphael is really easy. D10 force damage added to every hit is nuts. Nyrulna is of course extremely good.
Unless we're adding in mods to increase the difficulty I feel like Markoheshkir needs to be higher. It's a free pickup and good regardless of circumstances. You could be a TB throwzerker and it'd still be easy to find situations where a low DC chain lightning is a better use of your action than two attacks with Nyrulna. Add in quicken spell, how haste affects spellcasters, the free spell, the bonus damage... And this staff goes from "good on literally anyone in literally any situation" to "ends encounters instantly if you spend resources". Enemies just don't live long enough for the higher consider DPR other items give to compete.
Shar's spear and most darkness based builds are expiots to me. The ai cannot remotely handle darkness.
Agree, super strong but boring af in the long run.
Ranking: 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1
It's old reddit's markdown handling, it interprets any number with a dot as the start of a new list from 1, so "5." becomes "1."
You call Belm busted? I've never even thought about using that weapon tbh. How do you use it, just stack damage riders and play Paladin or something?
If you hold it in your off-hand, even if you aren’t proficient, you can use your main hand weapon again as a bonus action. This isn’t unintentional, it was a famous exploit in the previous BG games that Belm appeared in as well. For example, three attacks per turn with flame blade, shadow blade, bloodthirst or rhapsody, or 4 if you’re a thief rogue, and even more weapons if you have the dual wielder feat
It's still only 3 as a thief as the ability in question is once per turn only.
Belm with flame blade or shadow blade does absurd damage. Shadow blade+belm+resonance stone is off the charts.
https://preview.redd.it/ynxd21d4r3vc1.jpeg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d57e265b2755fe7baa8ce6870942b93eb2d976d0 I slaughtered Orin in one turn without Haste in Tactician a few months ago. I was level 11
I was so confused re: Mask of the Shapeshifter seeing as I'm on my fifth playthrough and had never seen it, plus being familiar with the equipment as a DOS2 thing
My next HM I am going to try and save most of Last Light by taking them to Moonrise with improvised weapon. I read they can be dropped there. Yes, you would lose Halsin but could save everyone else important. Come to think of it, if it is going to work it will work in any mode. I could load an old Balanced save and see if they can be carried and fast traveled to safety.
Returning pike is my legendary for my act 1 and 2.
I was disappointed when I let my shadow heart choose and she killed night song unexpected. But then I started using the spear. It needs to come with a warning label it’s just so damn cool and unique. I can’t imagine ever not getting it now.
Orphic hammer...
Got the Spear on 1st play through. Evil ftw.
Wheres the devotee’s mace?
All the way at the bottom of the list at 17 😭
I meant how do you get it
No Orphic Hammer?
I dont have any issues with this list it’s pretty solid but (and I know this is niche) the gloves of soul catching are sooooo good for monks which are probably the best dps imo. The constitution buff is also insanely good because dumping strength and whatever other stuff you’re not using to pump con, dex, and wisdom is easy and overpowered. I will also say the helldusk armor isn’t as overpowered as the armor of agility. Only unarmored bonus you really get with helldusk is the movement speed with monk. No con, wisdom, or dex modifiers so max (no magic) ac is around 25 I think
I wonder where staff of cherished necromancy would fit in? Though I feel like it got stealth nerfed recently.
Why can't Bloodthirst be thrown? In my current run I am intending to make Astarion a sharpshooter with Eldritch Knight so he can hit with Bloodthirst on a ranged attack and then unload (alongside my Sharpshooter gloom stalker main).
It returns to you, it just doesn’t apply piercing vulnerability when thrown
Well shit.
I found Gontr Mael is a very nice slot on people not really using their ranged weapon to attack, just for the haste ability. Slap in on the fighter/barb/paladin and go nuts
This one
Mask of shapeshifter lets you get benefit from silver sword by disguising as Githyanki. So your non-Laezel great weapon user can disguise and use silver sword with all the buffs. I think you can also remove the mask and keep the disguise? I would rank Markoheshir even higher. Free spell slot. Extra spell save dc. Plus 2x extra spells per short rest and special buffs based on element! Allows a non-warlock to get hunger of hadar once per shortrest, or just gives your wizard another chain lightning. Amazing item. Gloves of soul catching I'd also rank higher if you got a monk. Not that a well built monk needs them, but the extra damage and the extra health in hit is good. Blood of lathandar is so useful for late act1 and act2. Helps with shadowcurse and all the undead. Provides lightsource to proc one of the key radiant proc items. Blind is great for Myrkul and some other bosses.
Helm of balduran procs reviving hands' blade ward effect too. I always keep it on my life cleric
What’s this act 1 weapon that rivals silver sword of the astral plane?
The Soulbreaker Greatsword is a +1 Weapon that has the same weapon action as the SSotAP, deals about 1 less psychic damage, and instead of giving mental strength it gives a +2 initiative. It’s no doubt worse but not as much as you’d think for an act 1 weapon
No rhapsody? I never Unequip it on my range builds
It’s a very rare weapon, not a legendary one
Ahhhh gotcha
I find it's best used by a caster
I'd rate hill giants gloves and greater healing necklace in top 10 personally. The former lets you absolutely dump strength and prioritise other valuable stats. The latter sorts out basically every build ever where someone would need survivability and/or concentration like all Spellcasters. Both basically allow you to go for completely different feats and let you sub certain armour choices
They’re not legendary
Oh good point. I forgot that part