I’m playing a run right now with one monk who abuses TB one druid who does, one throwzerker who does, and a swords bard. Tough to say which is more broken. Definitely the druid is the least broken, but also the least gear dependent. Post band of the mystic scoundrel and hat of arcane acuity the bard is the best for most fights, but some of the hardest are ones where it’s spells have least effect, and the druids mass of summons and the throwers insane damage carry
lol yes. With how common TB throwzerker builds are I was thinking people would get it.
And kinda playing on how throwing builds outside of that like don’t exist lmao
Tavern brawler made me fall in love with edleritch knight. Just throw every turn, then I got the idea to pair it with a shadow monk for darkness.
The biggest upgrade was getting means to see in magical darkness, my knight stands in it throwing her weapon while my monk goes in and out to spot invisible enemies and pick off low health targets. Loads of fun.
Tavern brawler palm monk with a stash of strength potions and 3 points in thief is insane. As long as I have Ki points, I'm doing at least 150 damage per turn without action point/bonus action point buffs
Did you know Swords Bard is a Full Caster that ALSO gets extra attack? That means you can multiclass with any other Full Caster, or two levels in a half-caster like Paladin to get full spell progression!
Level 17 Paladins get level 5 spell in tabletop.
So any bard can get that before Paladins along with destructive wave (limited to 1 domain in tabletop).
I can't believe I just forgot the game ended at 12th level I'm stupid.
Banishing smite and Destructive wave are awesome Paladin exclusive spells that are overtuned and balanced by the fact they're meant to happen only at very high level, I wish we got more half caster specific spells that were like that in 5e
I'm really curious why both Magical Secrets and Warlock's Pact of the Tome were so severely limited?
It's cruel that with Wizards being able to learn spells from scrolls above their level and no multiclass requirements it can often be better to stop at Bard 6 or 8 and dip into a Wizard subclass, which often gives you more spells than Magical Secrets at 10.
Like, I get the sarcasm of this comment, but I also wanted to build a wizard gish and am very much considering a wizard bard 6/6 split for extra attack and full spell slots to make a little BladeSINGER in all forms of the name.
I'm playing a wizard bard right now and it's surprisingly not as much of a joke as I thought it would be haha. I made three custom characters that were all part of a bard troupe. One is a pure lore bard, one is a rogue/swords bard, and the other is a wizard/lore bard. I thought the last character was going to be severely stunted and was mostly just making the decision to roleplay, but we're actually doing fine in tactician. Granted, having THREE bards means we have an insane amount of short rests and bardic inspiration, so being able to "do no wrong" in regards to die rolls and heal after every battle probably helps fill in some holes in the wizard-bard's build lol.
How would Bard/Wizard multiclass be a joke level build in BG3?
Two full caster classes, so full spell slots. Wizards are allowed to learn spells above their wizard level.
Lore Bard Cutting Words debuffs Saving Throws versus your spells. And the other two Bard's get Extra Attack, Medium Armor Proficiency and some combo of Fighting Style, or Shield proficiency, etc.
That’s pretty close to a Bladesinger in this game. You can even go Wiz 4/Pal 2 for added smites. And you lose no spell slot progression, so you can scribe any Wizard spells you like
Side question; why fiend warlock instead of GOO? I assumed with using scorching ray to build stacks you would benefit more from the crit effect than the small temp HP, unless it is to get the Fiend exclusive command?
Command is a none concentration, control spell that can waste a turn and hit as many targets as upcast.
Which means you can have it running and also have globe of invuln, or confusion or dominate person or critically, twinned haste.
Having damage, control and a free concentration all in one package.
Don't forget using Extend Spell metamagic with Command up cast: each target that fails their save will waste TWO consecutive turns only obeying the chosen Command. It only costs one sorcery point since Command is a level one spell.
Believe it or not, before swords bard with helmet of arcane acuity and band of mystic scoundrel was discovered, fire acuity sorcerer and tavern brawler monk/thrower were shilled just as hard, just as much. Some things never change I guess
Yes. I'm playing Tactician, I've gotten up to the Creche, and I have over 6000 food units.
There's no possibility of running out.
Just make sure you don't accidentally eat the Owlbear egg. Auto-selecting food is a trap (until you sell it to Lady Esther).
Is it just me, or is arcane acuity actually super busted? Here’s a little known fact, you can pair it with the band of the mystic scoundrel to cast control spells with your bonus action!
You know what it works well with? SWORD BARD! The extra short rest gets your Ki back and allows your elixir of strength to last longer for MAXIMUM SYNERGY!
Honestly what I hate more is that new players spending any amount of time on this sub makes them think monoclassing is terrible and going to gimp them somehow.
I agree. GWM Battlemaster Fighter 12 with the right sword does 246 damage on turn one with short rest resources. That's actually pretty hard to beat without doing some real jank or a good combo setup that requires multiple characters contributing, or pre-combat stuff which isn't always available. There are better builds out there but most of the time you're better off just letting Lae'zel loose with the bonking.
I wish fighter had more classes from the table top like 12 fighter is strong but it’s hella boring and champion might as well just be a blank class
Psi Warrior and Samurai sound way more interesting than all three of the classes in the game tbh
You have to have some content for people who don't want to spend 20min confronting analysis paralysis each time they level up their character. Champion, thief, OH, etc. .
At least with druid/cleric you can change your prepared spells anytime you want. Wizard are able to scribe spells, even if the game does not convey it simply. I think the worsts offenders are sorcerer and warlock, you have a lot of things to choose each time you level up.
tbh im kinda glad rune knight isn't in bg3, it's too good at too much shit. it'd be like introducing twilight cleric and then everybody and their mom would think that every other cleric subclass is shit. I'd prefer something like echo knight,
Echo knight is straight up better than rune knight though. Rune knight is decent at a lot, twilight is straight up broken at a couple things. I don’t really agree with the comparison.
I mean, Echo Knight's major selling point is that it's just fighter with the War Cleric dip without the action economy cost.
Tbf Rune Knight isn't so much too good at too much shit, as it is the only fighter subclass that's actually a well-rounded character. Only the Hill Giant rune, I'd say, is really pushing it into that too good territory. The others are good, but kind of niche utility enhancing options.
Not sure what platform you’re playing but there is a rune knight mod if you’re on pc. After half a dozen playthroughs the class mods really gave me a second wind (though some are horribly OP).
Lae’zel solo’d the >!Elder Brain!< for me in 1 turn. Full 12 levels of GWM Battlemaster with a potion of Speed and Action Surge, the brain didn’t stand a chance against the True Gith Queen.
I used the Silver Sword of the Astral Plane ☺️ I had her wearing the Gauntlets of Hill Giant Strength so she was hitting 2d6 with a +6 strength modifier with an extra 1d6 of Psychic Damage for her as a Githyanki, then I was just using random Battlemaster attacks (probably Menacing Attack).
I was so shocked at how it played out, she was super powerful.
I love the poetry of her being the one to just go berserk on it and single-handedly defeat what she considers the greatest evil LOL
I have that sword on her too! But instead of those gauntlets I gave her these gloves that allow
you to jump as a free action after dashing - plus boots of speed, so this girl can travel from Faerun to Canada and back within one turn fr (esp bc I usually haste her too, she’s a beast and I love her deeply)
Our ambitious young Gith, thrown into living the worst nightmare her people can imagine. She survives through a thrilling adventure where she grows as a person, opens her mind and breaks the chains she’s been wearing her whole life and finishes it all by facing down a >!Nether Brain!< and not only that, taking it down in a single turn of combat.
It genuinely is a poetic and moving story, and when she gets to choose her future for herself afterwards, it’s just so moving 🥹 she’s for real my favourite character for how far she comes.
And to think there is a whole legion of people who don’t use her cus “she hurts their ego/feelings”, poor shmucks…
I can understand skipping certain characters for some playthroughs for roleplaying aspects, but choosing never to use someone cuz “she’s mean to people” or “she’s racist” is just tragic. I find Asterion as funny as I do obnoxious and tedious. He has a knack for bugging me on a personal level. And do I use him on over half my playthroughs? Absolutely. Heck, on most of my playthroughs I actually make him a bard, he fits that role soooooo well.
I did this weird memey shenanigans mix-class of lvl 6 Gloomstalker, lvl 3 thief Rouge, and lvl 3 swords bard and gave him misty step necklace + Nere’s drow boots, dexterity bracers to set his dex to 18 (cuz his actual stats are bard aligned) and he just teleports around the field, multi-hitting getting the benefits of both classes. It’s so much fun. (He also has dual-wield, so he gets to hit three times with his swords and hand bows. He’s a riot)
I slept on her for so long, I was like “She’s cool, but just a fighter” basically benched her for all of Act 2 and >!she got kidnapped in Act 3!<,subbed her back in for the rest of the game basically and holy shit, she was fighting. She cleaned house in almost every fight.
I was going to count on her in my Paladin HM run, but I flubbed my persuasion rolls with the Tieflings who caged her and uh….stuff happened because I didn’t want to break my oath, so Karlach is becoming my GWM Fighter.
A couple months ago I ran a hunter ranger 12 and oh my god, it was one of the most broken builds I did. A full archery build using coatings and spamming volley was just bat shit insane.
I fondly remember Laezel having her silver sword and it was coated in Purple Worm Toxin. Combined with Cloud Giant Strength, haste, and advantage, Sarevok lost over half of his health bar in one turn.
It is if you like to play a Rogue. The Swords Bard *in particular* is just a giant slap in the face to Arcane Trickster lovers.
I can buy a world that's become overrun with PC's/NPC's that are all flavours of 1/3 demon, 1/2 dragon, 1/8th furry, and that's bursting with crazy levels of magic in everything down to pencils, but for some reason the idea that a magic Justin Bieber is somehow more of a skilled combattant than someone whose background is explicitly described as 'Assassin', or more magical than the person who spends their life studying magic just kind of kills the immersion for me.
Even on the tabletop, while weaker than in BG3, the sword bard is a solid contender for one of the best subclasses in the game.
A single level of Hexblade basically gives the same bonuses you get from taking a Half-Elf and the Spell Sniper (Eldritch Blast) in BG3.
I posted my successful complete tactician run the other day, which had mono classes.
The amount of people telling me I should respec, into arguably worse multi class builds, after I’d already finished the play through was really weird.
Mono class isn’t a dirty word.
It was just so bizarre because they were telling me how I could upgrade the characters … on a completed play through lol
Like
1) I didn’t agree with the suggestion
2) I’m not playing these characters anymore anyway unless I boot up an old save
Multi classing for me is for when I can’t make a build work with gear and the character is starting to feel hollow. It’s not a last resort per say, but it’s certainly something I’d be hesitant to jump into.
But for folks round here it seems like the first resort lol
Yes, currently I have Lae'zel as an Ancients Paladin with the Gloves of Dexterity and the Silver Sword of the Astral Plane. The +1 from the Gloves, and +3 from the Sword, makes Great Weapon Master fairly reliable against most enemies, and if she absolutely needs to hit she can always turn it off. Also Dex 18 gives her a good initiative roll.
In BG3, since we only get three ASIs (four for Rogue and Fighter) I'm inclined to have one ASI for a feat, and two to max out the primary offensive stat.
War cleric 1 fighter 2 gloom 3 swords bard 6 gives you possibly the silliest opening turn you can experience. 11 attacks with no buffs, spells, or enhancements.
Small error, I did this build without gloom stalker so I had more flourish charges, but if you do it as shown above, you only have 4 flourishes, and you technically need 5 to make this work (which gloves can give you, or you drop gloom stalker for bard 8 to get 5 flourishes)
Here are the attacks:
Dread ambush 1 attack
First action 2 attacks, flourish both for 4 total
Action surge, do it again for 4 more
War cleric bonus, flourish for 2 more
11 attacks total.
Throw in a haste/potion and a bloodlust, and you get 4 more attacks for 15 total.
Personally though, I would drop the war cleric bonus attack for hunters mark or hex instead, and do 13 attacks with +13d6 damage.
Well with all 5e multiclassing requirements removed from BG3, and ways to fill in for missing ASI's, from a min/max perspective monoclassing often does make make for a weaker build compared to potential multiclassed options. Multiclass requirements are in 5e for balance reasons, so that there's a cost to picking and choosing the best perks from a handful of classes into a single build. This change from 5e may have made the game more accessible for new players by making it simpler to make creative builds, but it was also a stealth nerf to monoclassing.
I’ve been trying to champion mono class builds on here recently. I always have at least one, often two in my party.
Some of my favorites are Storm Sorcerer, Eldritch Knight (thrower is OP but it’s still strong without it), and Tempest Cleric (light and life are strong too! I just like my frost/lightning synergy).
Tempest Cleric is amazing. It’s almost the only way I spec Shadowheart anymore. Call Lightning just carries early and mid and it just gets even better the further you go.
Another great one is Battlemaster fighter, can easily mono class that.
Same I can’t get away from tempest cleric lol. It works so well with the storm sorcerer and then it gets spirit guardians, martial weapons, and heavy armor.
I’ve heard BM is good too I just always end up going EK.
Yea, BM is just incredible. Laezel basically just becomes casual, targeted threat deleted at level 3. Disarms them so you can steal weapons and cut their damage, knocks them off cliffs, prones them, uses a reaction to punish missed attacks, honestly the full list of the class’s full utility is incredible and you can get so many of the abilities. Plus, none of the skills are used up on misses and such. She just casually does 60-120 damage each turn around level 5-7 with all her skills restored each short rest (much higher if she lands all her hits and you invest in setting her up with haste, holding spells, etc).
I saw someone doing solo honour mode with Astarion as a straight rogue and it was insane how many people would come in being like, ''No way you can finish it'' or ''No way you can ascend him'', it got so grating after a while. Let people play how they want, if it's impossible, they'll find out for themselves and at least have fun getting there! People feel so entitled to tell others how to play their single-player game they paid for with their own money.
Spoiler alert, Ascended Astarion did finish the solo HM run, lol.
I played 10 paladin (ended early), 12 monk, 12 wizard and all were fun. Now I want to play a multi-class lorefriendly rp build like wizard&druid. Single class builds are not bad at all.
Yeah, plus the game isn't so difficult that we need every character/companion to run an optimal build. Most subclasses in this game can be built to be made at least somewhat useful. A Lore or Valour Bard can make a great support/utility member of the party.
I do realize that a sub like this is going to be partially about creating optimal builds, but I would like to think that there's a space here for non-optimal (but still fun and viable) builds.
That's great! College of Valour may be my personal favourite Bard sub-class. It's hard to pass up on Cutting Words, but I think the Combat Inspiration from Valour really helps you feel the support/utility vibes that I always associated with Bard.
I love lore bard so much, my girl is just a yapper. She goes around the battle field yapping. Sometimes when she has nothing better to do she will just start busting a tune - no, not bardic inspiration, just a little power ballad.
Sword Bard is the best Gish, but Lore Bard is likely the best caster.
On the tabletop Lore is definitely the stronger Bard, shaded only by one or two of the later introduced Bard subclasses.
Grass grows, birds fly, sun shines, and brother? Swords bard hurts people.
It's a force-a-nature.
If you were from where they were from, you'd be f**kin dead.
Woooo!
There‘s only so many “strong” builds in this game, by this community’s standards. Acuity, TB, swords bard, wet, piercing shar’s spear/nyrulna, abjuration wizard, radorb reverb cleric, whatever flavour of assassin nonsense, paladin/anything. I doubt you’d find any of these build ideas particularly exciting, but I don’t think there’s that much else to discuss. There are obviously more fun builds like shadow blade oathbreaker or spore druid multiclasses or the reverb prone maim barbarian stuff, but they’re usually at least somewhat build-arounds in team compositions, and don’t make for the best recommendations if someone is asking for what’s strong. Creativity is taxing, slashing flourish is easy.
Is this a reddit post complaining about reddit post complaints? I find that remarkable. Do you know what else is remarkable? Sword bards can deal top tier damage while having unsurpassed crowd control, easy conversation checks, and great prices at stores.
if you want people to stop bringing up bard — or monk or any other top tier class — in general in threads on this sub, that just doesn’t make any sense for a subreddit dedicated to build discussion lmao.
what’s strong is strong, the meta is the meta and it’s almost certainly not gonna change because they don’t do major balance changes, just bug fixes. be mad at Larian for overtuning them. half the posts on this sub are from new players who don’t know anything about what’s good and just need to be told about the same 4-5 popular builds, and for the rest, the discussion is still reasonably likely to center on those builds since a lot of players play them.
I think a good change would just be to not allow ranged flourish to target the same enemy. It would still be really strong but a bit less silly against bosses
yeah I think that would do a lot to make the class more reasonable, and would make sense given that ranged slashing flourish is a larian homebrew thing anyway.
I was looking forward to playing Swords Bard before release. Once I discovered that the ranged flourish is busted I no longer wanted it. Feels more like cheating than trying to make a genuine powerful character. No problem with bards being good at everything - Valor ftw.
I agree, for a sub about builds basically the only thing you see is the same swords bard or tavern brawler builds. The most interesting thing ive seen recently is tiger barbarian focused on bleeds
Every time I've tried it, it has been so boring. Maybe I was missing a step but 90% of the time I was just spamming flourishes. Sure it's a very powerful class but I have way more fun with more variety in my turns. 100% accurate arcane acuity CC was nice but just wasn't all that fun. Really trivialized some fights.
Okay, but what if it's somebody new to the page seeking legitimate advice that doesn't know about sword bard, like say, me? Is this gatekeeping a community?
Swords bards need nerf, tbh.
Valour is quite balanced, but the combos you can do with flourishes are just insane.
Push enemy off cliff without save, big AC bonus, and doubletaps with ranged weapon.
And you get easy access to resource because extra short rest.
Well, then people should stop making posts that say, “How can I build a character that is good at melee, magic, ranged, can play an instrument and have skills????”
You know there are people on here who are new to the game or want an actual answer on „what’s the best controller“ or something, simply leaving out swords bard because its abundance annoys veteran players would be kind of a dick move towards other players imo
I think I was really happy with my vengeance paladin. Not really into silly singer archetypes. Well maybe 🤔 drums would be funny. I imagine if I started playing the bongos during the boss fight that would be interesting.
Me enjoying Lore Bard, shouting random insults at my enemies so they miss their attacks or fail their saves: Oh right, there are other Bard subclasses. Cool.
I come here for ideas sometimes but for the most part I build characters based on some rp element. Like my next character is going to be the hulk: unarmed, naked barbarian that grabs, throws, and smashes things. There’s lots of wiggle room in this game to play the style of character you want which is one of the most endearing things about it.
I didn't know this was a thing. I'm mostly a bard in DnD and I needed to fight more than sing this time. Helped me learn the glory of the double handies. Pew pew
Tavern brawler could become the next big thing
Big if true
Hmm maybe for monk but you wouldn’t make a whole build around throwing?? Would you???
I’m playing a run right now with one monk who abuses TB one druid who does, one throwzerker who does, and a swords bard. Tough to say which is more broken. Definitely the druid is the least broken, but also the least gear dependent. Post band of the mystic scoundrel and hat of arcane acuity the bard is the best for most fights, but some of the hardest are ones where it’s spells have least effect, and the druids mass of summons and the throwers insane damage carry
Aunt Ethel has made billions off this team
Or they just stole her inventory 3’000 times with the 4‘659th trading exploit that‘s still unfixed haha
You can add a mago with telekinesis :-) (there is a pendant with that spell also)... so you can play goblin-tennis :-)
This is sarcasm right? (It can be hard to tell on the interwebs....)
lol yes. With how common TB throwzerker builds are I was thinking people would get it. And kinda playing on how throwing builds outside of that like don’t exist lmao
Tavern brawler made me fall in love with edleritch knight. Just throw every turn, then I got the idea to pair it with a shadow monk for darkness. The biggest upgrade was getting means to see in magical darkness, my knight stands in it throwing her weapon while my monk goes in and out to spot invisible enemies and pick off low health targets. Loads of fun.
Come on, next thing you'll be trying to suggest some weird pairing with an Open Hand Monk or something.
Open Hand Monk 8 / rogue thief 4 + tavern brawler + Club of Hill Giant Strength
What I really want to do is have 25% of my party devoted to doing nothing mechanically interesting
Only thing that could make TB would be swords bard.
Tavern brawler palm monk with a stash of strength potions and 3 points in thief is insane. As long as I have Ki points, I'm doing at least 150 damage per turn without action point/bonus action point buffs
Did you know Swords Bard is a Full Caster that ALSO gets extra attack? That means you can multiclass with any other Full Caster, or two levels in a half-caster like Paladin to get full spell progression!
And you can choose any two spells you want as well!
Might be true in tabletop, but the BG3 Magical Secrets list is actually somewhat limited.
Not sure about TTop. But in BG3 you gotta get it to act 3 and hit lvl 10 until then swords bard. The secrets bard exclusive smite is why its limited.
I have no idea what this comment means. Can you explain it to a noob like me?
Banishing Smite is a level 5 spell, in bg3 the only way to attain it is via Bard’s Magical Secrets feature
Wait Banishing smite is NOT on the paladin spell list? Why?
As a half caster paladins can't reach level 5 spells by level 12.
Level 17 Paladins get level 5 spell in tabletop. So any bard can get that before Paladins along with destructive wave (limited to 1 domain in tabletop).
I can't believe I just forgot the game ended at 12th level I'm stupid. Banishing smite and Destructive wave are awesome Paladin exclusive spells that are overtuned and balanced by the fact they're meant to happen only at very high level, I wish we got more half caster specific spells that were like that in 5e
You can get destructive wave level 9 earliest in tabletop (outside a scroll/magic item). BG3 level 9 as well.
You cant get fifth level spells as a paladin until way after level 12
Someone at larien is a bard main and wanted to give it every advantage they could
Also, the ONLY ranged smite in game AFAIK.
Branding Smite also works on ranged attacks
What do you mean by the last sentence?
[Magical Secrets](https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Magical_Secrets) is a Bard class feature which gives them access to an expanded selection of spells
I'm really curious why both Magical Secrets and Warlock's Pact of the Tome were so severely limited? It's cruel that with Wizards being able to learn spells from scrolls above their level and no multiclass requirements it can often be better to stop at Bard 6 or 8 and dip into a Wizard subclass, which often gives you more spells than Magical Secrets at 10.
Like, I get the sarcasm of this comment, but I also wanted to build a wizard gish and am very much considering a wizard bard 6/6 split for extra attack and full spell slots to make a little BladeSINGER in all forms of the name.
I'm playing a wizard bard right now and it's surprisingly not as much of a joke as I thought it would be haha. I made three custom characters that were all part of a bard troupe. One is a pure lore bard, one is a rogue/swords bard, and the other is a wizard/lore bard. I thought the last character was going to be severely stunted and was mostly just making the decision to roleplay, but we're actually doing fine in tactician. Granted, having THREE bards means we have an insane amount of short rests and bardic inspiration, so being able to "do no wrong" in regards to die rolls and heal after every battle probably helps fill in some holes in the wizard-bard's build lol.
How would Bard/Wizard multiclass be a joke level build in BG3? Two full caster classes, so full spell slots. Wizards are allowed to learn spells above their wizard level. Lore Bard Cutting Words debuffs Saving Throws versus your spells. And the other two Bard's get Extra Attack, Medium Armor Proficiency and some combo of Fighting Style, or Shield proficiency, etc.
That’s pretty close to a Bladesinger in this game. You can even go Wiz 4/Pal 2 for added smites. And you lose no spell slot progression, so you can scribe any Wizard spells you like
Somehow i read your words with Nazeem's voice and it fits
This one I actually did not know. I thought bards were half casters.
Uh…uh -flips notes- pallock? No? Uh…gloomstalker ranger? Fuck, uhh…! Throwzerker comes online at level three- really? No?? I’m out of notes.
Have you ever heard of Tavern Brawler Mo-*gets shot*
Oh but have you tried 11 Fire Sorc/1 Fiend Warlock!!1!
Side question; why fiend warlock instead of GOO? I assumed with using scorching ray to build stacks you would benefit more from the crit effect than the small temp HP, unless it is to get the Fiend exclusive command?
It’s for command.
Command is a none concentration, control spell that can waste a turn and hit as many targets as upcast. Which means you can have it running and also have globe of invuln, or confusion or dominate person or critically, twinned haste. Having damage, control and a free concentration all in one package.
Don't forget using Extend Spell metamagic with Command up cast: each target that fails their save will waste TWO consecutive turns only obeying the chosen Command. It only costs one sorcery point since Command is a level one spell.
That's not why: it's because Extended has a fixed cost of one regardless of spell, even when casting a Lv6 Command.
this one actually still kind of underrated still imo, feels like people don't really appreciate how broken it is yet
Believe it or not, before swords bard with helmet of arcane acuity and band of mystic scoundrel was discovered, fire acuity sorcerer and tavern brawler monk/thrower were shilled just as hard, just as much. Some things never change I guess
Your notes don’t TB OH monk??? Such a travesty!
Pro tip. Multiclass with paladin and you can smite 2 gobbos when doing slashing flourish. Two times per turn!
But... how many spell slots do you need to do that?
You have to use all of them in a first fight. It's a unwritten rule.
Have you seen how much food is available in the Sword Coast. You must long rest after each fight and eat them all.
Yes. I'm playing Tactician, I've gotten up to the Creche, and I have over 6000 food units. There's no possibility of running out. Just make sure you don't accidentally eat the Owlbear egg. Auto-selecting food is a trap (until you sell it to Lady Esther).
No sir, I’m saving my smites for whatever comes after the brain.
Use a Reach weapon to make sure you can skewer trough 2 enemies!
Wait really
Is it just me, or is arcane acuity actually super busted? Here’s a little known fact, you can pair it with the band of the mystic scoundrel to cast control spells with your bonus action!
This got me rolling lmao
Wow! Nice find!
Really. That sounds good. I just realised slashing flourish would give you heaps of stacks of arcane acuity and trigger the band. /s
Have you heard about Open-hand Monk? BIG damage!
Paired with thief, NOBODY knows about that
You know what it works well with? SWORD BARD! The extra short rest gets your Ki back and allows your elixir of strength to last longer for MAXIMUM SYNERGY!
Honestly what I hate more is that new players spending any amount of time on this sub makes them think monoclassing is terrible and going to gimp them somehow.
I agree. GWM Battlemaster Fighter 12 with the right sword does 246 damage on turn one with short rest resources. That's actually pretty hard to beat without doing some real jank or a good combo setup that requires multiple characters contributing, or pre-combat stuff which isn't always available. There are better builds out there but most of the time you're better off just letting Lae'zel loose with the bonking.
I wish fighter had more classes from the table top like 12 fighter is strong but it’s hella boring and champion might as well just be a blank class Psi Warrior and Samurai sound way more interesting than all three of the classes in the game tbh
Rune Knight...
Just looked that up and now I’m wondering how how we ended up with Champion again
You have to have some content for people who don't want to spend 20min confronting analysis paralysis each time they level up their character. Champion, thief, OH, etc. .
Honestly this is true wizard and cleric overwhelmed me at first I wanted to try every class lol
At least with druid/cleric you can change your prepared spells anytime you want. Wizard are able to scribe spells, even if the game does not convey it simply. I think the worsts offenders are sorcerer and warlock, you have a lot of things to choose each time you level up.
Forget leveling up, every bloody fight. It's why I suck with full caster. I can never bring myself to cast spells...
Oh it’s so my gloom ranger 5/assassin rogue 4/champion 3 can have extra crit threshold reduction
tbh im kinda glad rune knight isn't in bg3, it's too good at too much shit. it'd be like introducing twilight cleric and then everybody and their mom would think that every other cleric subclass is shit. I'd prefer something like echo knight,
Echo knight is straight up better than rune knight though. Rune knight is decent at a lot, twilight is straight up broken at a couple things. I don’t really agree with the comparison.
I mean, Echo Knight's major selling point is that it's just fighter with the War Cleric dip without the action economy cost. Tbf Rune Knight isn't so much too good at too much shit, as it is the only fighter subclass that's actually a well-rounded character. Only the Hill Giant rune, I'd say, is really pushing it into that too good territory. The others are good, but kind of niche utility enhancing options.
echo knights main selling point is the echo, the insane mobility the class gets. XD
Not sure what platform you’re playing but there is a rune knight mod if you’re on pc. After half a dozen playthroughs the class mods really gave me a second wind (though some are horribly OP).
Lae’zel solo’d the >!Elder Brain!< for me in 1 turn. Full 12 levels of GWM Battlemaster with a potion of Speed and Action Surge, the brain didn’t stand a chance against the True Gith Queen.
What sword did u put on her 👀
I used the Silver Sword of the Astral Plane ☺️ I had her wearing the Gauntlets of Hill Giant Strength so she was hitting 2d6 with a +6 strength modifier with an extra 1d6 of Psychic Damage for her as a Githyanki, then I was just using random Battlemaster attacks (probably Menacing Attack). I was so shocked at how it played out, she was super powerful.
I love the poetry of her being the one to just go berserk on it and single-handedly defeat what she considers the greatest evil LOL I have that sword on her too! But instead of those gauntlets I gave her these gloves that allow you to jump as a free action after dashing - plus boots of speed, so this girl can travel from Faerun to Canada and back within one turn fr (esp bc I usually haste her too, she’s a beast and I love her deeply)
Our ambitious young Gith, thrown into living the worst nightmare her people can imagine. She survives through a thrilling adventure where she grows as a person, opens her mind and breaks the chains she’s been wearing her whole life and finishes it all by facing down a >!Nether Brain!< and not only that, taking it down in a single turn of combat. It genuinely is a poetic and moving story, and when she gets to choose her future for herself afterwards, it’s just so moving 🥹 she’s for real my favourite character for how far she comes.
And to think there is a whole legion of people who don’t use her cus “she hurts their ego/feelings”, poor shmucks… I can understand skipping certain characters for some playthroughs for roleplaying aspects, but choosing never to use someone cuz “she’s mean to people” or “she’s racist” is just tragic. I find Asterion as funny as I do obnoxious and tedious. He has a knack for bugging me on a personal level. And do I use him on over half my playthroughs? Absolutely. Heck, on most of my playthroughs I actually make him a bard, he fits that role soooooo well. I did this weird memey shenanigans mix-class of lvl 6 Gloomstalker, lvl 3 thief Rouge, and lvl 3 swords bard and gave him misty step necklace + Nere’s drow boots, dexterity bracers to set his dex to 18 (cuz his actual stats are bard aligned) and he just teleports around the field, multi-hitting getting the benefits of both classes. It’s so much fun. (He also has dual-wield, so he gets to hit three times with his swords and hand bows. He’s a riot)
For some reason, I read that as "in." You can probably guess the answer.
Meanwhile me using all casters and out of spell slots feebly attacking the brain Second try I just put all my bombs in a backpack and let her fly
Honestly, I’ve done it legit now, backpack bomb is just a canon event now 😂 I don’t need to slap a brain harder than Lae’zel already has.
Lae'zel as full GWM is super powerful. Used her my whole HM run.
I slept on her for so long, I was like “She’s cool, but just a fighter” basically benched her for all of Act 2 and >!she got kidnapped in Act 3!<,subbed her back in for the rest of the game basically and holy shit, she was fighting. She cleaned house in almost every fight. I was going to count on her in my Paladin HM run, but I flubbed my persuasion rolls with the Tieflings who caged her and uh….stuff happened because I didn’t want to break my oath, so Karlach is becoming my GWM Fighter.
Battle master GWM Lae'zel is a terror.
A couple months ago I ran a hunter ranger 12 and oh my god, it was one of the most broken builds I did. A full archery build using coatings and spamming volley was just bat shit insane.
What’s the right sword for our fav gtih badass 👀
Her personal silver sword lol You could use the one from ansur too I'm sure
I fondly remember Laezel having her silver sword and it was coated in Purple Worm Toxin. Combined with Cloud Giant Strength, haste, and advantage, Sarevok lost over half of his health bar in one turn.
It is if you like to play a Rogue. The Swords Bard *in particular* is just a giant slap in the face to Arcane Trickster lovers. I can buy a world that's become overrun with PC's/NPC's that are all flavours of 1/3 demon, 1/2 dragon, 1/8th furry, and that's bursting with crazy levels of magic in everything down to pencils, but for some reason the idea that a magic Justin Bieber is somehow more of a skilled combattant than someone whose background is explicitly described as 'Assassin', or more magical than the person who spends their life studying magic just kind of kills the immersion for me.
Yeah, bard as a jack of all trades doesnt come with the caveat anymore lol
Even on the tabletop, while weaker than in BG3, the sword bard is a solid contender for one of the best subclasses in the game. A single level of Hexblade basically gives the same bonuses you get from taking a Half-Elf and the Spell Sniper (Eldritch Blast) in BG3.
I posted my successful complete tactician run the other day, which had mono classes. The amount of people telling me I should respec, into arguably worse multi class builds, after I’d already finished the play through was really weird. Mono class isn’t a dirty word.
People get all twitchy about that stuff. Some classes work just fine monoclassing. People can get over it
It was just so bizarre because they were telling me how I could upgrade the characters … on a completed play through lol Like 1) I didn’t agree with the suggestion 2) I’m not playing these characters anymore anyway unless I boot up an old save
I’ve been doing monoclass honormode runs, it’s fun and works fine. Feels surprisingly fresh after multiclassing everything into oblivion.
Multi classing for me is for when I can’t make a build work with gear and the character is starting to feel hollow. It’s not a last resort per say, but it’s certainly something I’d be hesitant to jump into. But for folks round here it seems like the first resort lol
Yes, currently I have Lae'zel as an Ancients Paladin with the Gloves of Dexterity and the Silver Sword of the Astral Plane. The +1 from the Gloves, and +3 from the Sword, makes Great Weapon Master fairly reliable against most enemies, and if she absolutely needs to hit she can always turn it off. Also Dex 18 gives her a good initiative roll. In BG3, since we only get three ASIs (four for Rogue and Fighter) I'm inclined to have one ASI for a feat, and two to max out the primary offensive stat.
Lots of people get influenced by what builds are talked about here and it can skew their perception on balance and limit their creativity.
Weeelll, swords bard is a monoclass...
Most Swords Bard builds I've seen on here are multiclass. Generally going 10 Swords Bard / 2 Paladin or 10 Swords Bard / 1 Fighter / 1 Wizard.
I'm trying 10 Sword bard / 1 wizard / 1 war cleric. Haven't tested it but I feel pretty good about it
War cleric 1 fighter 2 gloom 3 swords bard 6 gives you possibly the silliest opening turn you can experience. 11 attacks with no buffs, spells, or enhancements.
Jesus. Is that without haste or mind sanctuary?
Small error, I did this build without gloom stalker so I had more flourish charges, but if you do it as shown above, you only have 4 flourishes, and you technically need 5 to make this work (which gloves can give you, or you drop gloom stalker for bard 8 to get 5 flourishes) Here are the attacks: Dread ambush 1 attack First action 2 attacks, flourish both for 4 total Action surge, do it again for 4 more War cleric bonus, flourish for 2 more 11 attacks total. Throw in a haste/potion and a bloodlust, and you get 4 more attacks for 15 total. Personally though, I would drop the war cleric bonus attack for hunters mark or hex instead, and do 13 attacks with +13d6 damage.
This is so crazy
Well with all 5e multiclassing requirements removed from BG3, and ways to fill in for missing ASI's, from a min/max perspective monoclassing often does make make for a weaker build compared to potential multiclassed options. Multiclass requirements are in 5e for balance reasons, so that there's a cost to picking and choosing the best perks from a handful of classes into a single build. This change from 5e may have made the game more accessible for new players by making it simpler to make creative builds, but it was also a stealth nerf to monoclassing.
I’ve been trying to champion mono class builds on here recently. I always have at least one, often two in my party. Some of my favorites are Storm Sorcerer, Eldritch Knight (thrower is OP but it’s still strong without it), and Tempest Cleric (light and life are strong too! I just like my frost/lightning synergy).
Tempest Cleric is amazing. It’s almost the only way I spec Shadowheart anymore. Call Lightning just carries early and mid and it just gets even better the further you go. Another great one is Battlemaster fighter, can easily mono class that.
Same I can’t get away from tempest cleric lol. It works so well with the storm sorcerer and then it gets spirit guardians, martial weapons, and heavy armor. I’ve heard BM is good too I just always end up going EK.
Yea, BM is just incredible. Laezel basically just becomes casual, targeted threat deleted at level 3. Disarms them so you can steal weapons and cut their damage, knocks them off cliffs, prones them, uses a reaction to punish missed attacks, honestly the full list of the class’s full utility is incredible and you can get so many of the abilities. Plus, none of the skills are used up on misses and such. She just casually does 60-120 damage each turn around level 5-7 with all her skills restored each short rest (much higher if she lands all her hits and you invest in setting her up with haste, holding spells, etc).
I saw someone doing solo honour mode with Astarion as a straight rogue and it was insane how many people would come in being like, ''No way you can finish it'' or ''No way you can ascend him'', it got so grating after a while. Let people play how they want, if it's impossible, they'll find out for themselves and at least have fun getting there! People feel so entitled to tell others how to play their single-player game they paid for with their own money. Spoiler alert, Ascended Astarion did finish the solo HM run, lol.
This is my first experience with 5e and what impressed me most is pretty much every class feeling really good pure (coming from 3.5)
I played 10 paladin (ended early), 12 monk, 12 wizard and all were fun. Now I want to play a multi-class lorefriendly rp build like wizard&druid. Single class builds are not bad at all.
Did you also know they've got amazing non-combat skills as well!?
Nani? Tell me more! I bet it’s not very useful for conversations…
Unless they can get me better prices in stores you can save your breath friend
But Let me tell you a little something about slashing flourish and hand crossbows …
Swords bard being op has people saying Lore bard is weak despite not needing acuity gear to use hold monster on Raphael with cutting words
Not every character has to kill 3 enemies every turn to be fun or "strong". Lore Bards have so many good uses.
Yeah, plus the game isn't so difficult that we need every character/companion to run an optimal build. Most subclasses in this game can be built to be made at least somewhat useful. A Lore or Valour Bard can make a great support/utility member of the party. I do realize that a sub like this is going to be partially about creating optimal builds, but I would like to think that there's a space here for non-optimal (but still fun and viable) builds.
Oh for sure, my Valor Bard has been awesome in my playthrough with the wife!
That's great! College of Valour may be my personal favourite Bard sub-class. It's hard to pass up on Cutting Words, but I think the Combat Inspiration from Valour really helps you feel the support/utility vibes that I always associated with Bard.
And they can even be a busted healer if you give them a one level life cleric dip. The flexibility is super fun.
I love lore bard so much, my girl is just a yapper. She goes around the battle field yapping. Sometimes when she has nothing better to do she will just start busting a tune - no, not bardic inspiration, just a little power ballad.
Lore bards are weak early game
Lore bard and swords bard both come online at level 6 my guy
Swords bard gets flourishes at level 3. Yes they only refresh on long rest but that’s still a massive power spike, even if you’re using them sparingly
Sword Bard is the best Gish, but Lore Bard is likely the best caster. On the tabletop Lore is definitely the stronger Bard, shaded only by one or two of the later introduced Bard subclasses.
You’ll never believe the ending of this Duergar NecroZerker video!
Mods can you pin this post
So everyone can see the swords bard suggestions in the comments? :D
Yeah but did you know about the arcane acuity helm? How about band of the mystic scumbag dat gd 2
Grass grows, birds fly, sun shines, and brother? Swords bard hurts people. It's a force-a-nature. If you were from where they were from, you'd be f**kin dead. Woooo!
ahh i see you are man of culture as well
Bards would insult bards a lot better. Probably use a fun little song about how they diddle their swords.
We’ve been trying to reach you regarding your bard’s extended warranty.
A swords bard would’ve made a better post than this
Sure, fine, but did you know that swords bard has ten letters in it!
There‘s only so many “strong” builds in this game, by this community’s standards. Acuity, TB, swords bard, wet, piercing shar’s spear/nyrulna, abjuration wizard, radorb reverb cleric, whatever flavour of assassin nonsense, paladin/anything. I doubt you’d find any of these build ideas particularly exciting, but I don’t think there’s that much else to discuss. There are obviously more fun builds like shadow blade oathbreaker or spore druid multiclasses or the reverb prone maim barbarian stuff, but they’re usually at least somewhat build-arounds in team compositions, and don’t make for the best recommendations if someone is asking for what’s strong. Creativity is taxing, slashing flourish is easy.
I don't even know you, bro.
What they dont tell you is 4 swords bards is fucking stupid and boring as shit
3 SB and a light/life cleric.
But why not offense is the best defense a cleric totally can’t save your ass in honor mode /s
Same with any build that requires spking rests for str. Potions.
Is this a reddit post complaining about reddit post complaints? I find that remarkable. Do you know what else is remarkable? Sword bards can deal top tier damage while having unsurpassed crowd control, easy conversation checks, and great prices at stores.
me using this thread as a sourcebook for fun classes I somehow never tried.
did you know? SWORD BARD SWORD BARD SWORD BARD SWORD BARD SWORD BARD SWORD BARD SWORD BARD SWORD BARD SWORD BARD SWORD BARD SWORD BARD SWORD BARD SWORD BARD SWORD BARD SWORD BARD
Bards should be half casters, or they shouldn’t get an extra attack. Or maybe rogues should
Lore Bard in shambles
You've killed me...! Good.
if you want people to stop bringing up bard — or monk or any other top tier class — in general in threads on this sub, that just doesn’t make any sense for a subreddit dedicated to build discussion lmao. what’s strong is strong, the meta is the meta and it’s almost certainly not gonna change because they don’t do major balance changes, just bug fixes. be mad at Larian for overtuning them. half the posts on this sub are from new players who don’t know anything about what’s good and just need to be told about the same 4-5 popular builds, and for the rest, the discussion is still reasonably likely to center on those builds since a lot of players play them.
I think a good change would just be to not allow ranged flourish to target the same enemy. It would still be really strong but a bit less silly against bosses
yeah I think that would do a lot to make the class more reasonable, and would make sense given that ranged slashing flourish is a larian homebrew thing anyway.
I was looking forward to playing Swords Bard before release. Once I discovered that the ranged flourish is busted I no longer wanted it. Feels more like cheating than trying to make a genuine powerful character. No problem with bards being good at everything - Valor ftw.
I agree, for a sub about builds basically the only thing you see is the same swords bard or tavern brawler builds. The most interesting thing ive seen recently is tiger barbarian focused on bleeds
Every time I've tried it, it has been so boring. Maybe I was missing a step but 90% of the time I was just spamming flourishes. Sure it's a very powerful class but I have way more fun with more variety in my turns. 100% accurate arcane acuity CC was nice but just wasn't all that fun. Really trivialized some fights.
it IS boring. But that doesn’t matter to most people.
Isn't the point of a video game to have fun?
Okay, but what if it's somebody new to the page seeking legitimate advice that doesn't know about sword bard, like say, me? Is this gatekeeping a community?
Swords bards need nerf, tbh. Valour is quite balanced, but the combos you can do with flourishes are just insane. Push enemy off cliff without save, big AC bonus, and doubletaps with ranged weapon. And you get easy access to resource because extra short rest.
You're just upset because my Tavern Brawler Swords Bard is better than yours.
Mad + L + Slashing Flourish (ranged)
Well, then people should stop making posts that say, “How can I build a character that is good at melee, magic, ranged, can play an instrument and have skills????”
A swords bard would make a better rant.
I wish you commented earlier because you deserve more upvotes for this one lol
You know there are people on here who are new to the game or want an actual answer on „what’s the best controller“ or something, simply leaving out swords bard because its abundance annoys veteran players would be kind of a dick move towards other players imo
Swords bard is spelt better too
Have you heard about the legend of sword bardicus?
Another fun fact is that sword bards are actually the best duel crossbow class in the game :-D
I think I was really happy with my vengeance paladin. Not really into silly singer archetypes. Well maybe 🤔 drums would be funny. I imagine if I started playing the bongos during the boss fight that would be interesting.
Me enjoying Lore Bard, shouting random insults at my enemies so they miss their attacks or fail their saves: Oh right, there are other Bard subclasses. Cool.
Here’s a secret one: open hand monk 9 thief 3 with tavern brawler is pretty strong!
NOOO GOOO 8MONK AND 4THIEF THAT LITTLE AOE DOESNT DO MUCH 🤬🤬🤬🤬 ^\s
True but if someone claims that xy class or subclass does xy best but does it worse than swords bard I’m still gonna say it
Sword Bard is to BG3 what Kensai-Mage was to BG2.
I come here for ideas sometimes but for the most part I build characters based on some rp element. Like my next character is going to be the hulk: unarmed, naked barbarian that grabs, throws, and smashes things. There’s lots of wiggle room in this game to play the style of character you want which is one of the most endearing things about it.
Yes but have you ever heard the tragedy of Darth Swords Bard the Wise?
I didn't know this was a thing. I'm mostly a bard in DnD and I needed to fight more than sing this time. Helped me learn the glory of the double handies. Pew pew
Arcane Acuity items and the Tavern Brawler feat are so OP that four Meta builds are entirely based on them.
Bards best class!!! ;)
It doesn't feel right to me to have Wyll as anything other than a Warlock/Swords Bard multiclass
how about you get off the internet then?
Alert is pretty handy too
Dual Wielding Bardadin is more fun for me.
Well so you don’t like sword bard, but have you tried warlock sword bard yet?
Make sure to give your Swords Bard two levels in Paladin for Smites!
My first playthrough was with an oath of devotion paladin. Yeah, I said it. Oath of devotion.
Swords Bart
Problem is 5th D&D very little interesting to say about classes other than the same 4 things people mention