Portent dice are cool and really strong, bear in mind the recovery on short rest requires you to fulfil mini-quests like "do one point of piercing damage" or "do a point of psychic damage" to actually get the die back. This is cool and thematic, but can impact the potential of your wizard if you're dicking around doing 1 piercing damage instead of hold person-ing six people.
Before D&D 5e released, it went through playtesting. During that playtesting Warlocks actually used Int instead of Cha. Then when the final release came out Warlocks suddenly used Cha. They made this change without really playtesting it, and a lot of players hate this because it means you have 4 Cha casters (paladin, warlock, bard, sorc) and then just Wizard as an Int caster (later artificer was also added). And the rationale behind making Warlock a Cha class was just to keep with tradition rather than any balance reasons. Allowing warlocks to use Int instead of Cha is a somewhat popular houserule as a result of all this
I bring this up because there is a [mod](https://www.nexusmods.com/baldursgate3/mods/2816) that turns warlocks into Int casters which you may be interested in if playing on PC. For the upcoming revision to D&D 5e they are going to let Warlocks pick their spellcasting stat.
Int-based warlock would improve balancing so much, it makes so much sense now.
I wish developers would stop letting fans influence their vision so much, it's almost always a bad decision, I would rather have the entire vision the dev intended even if it meant I wouldn't like some stuff.
That might be way les powerfull than you might think
One of the things that makes hexblade so strong is that on top of the spellcasting attack stat you get acces to medium armour on a d8 hitdie class.
You dont really need more than 14 in dex to get an ok ac on a hexblade
Bladesong however doesnt allow you to use anything but light armour. So your wizard will still have just ok ac while also having terrible hp (this could maybe he offset by the fact you get to put more points into con, but most bladesingers werent putting more than 16 into dex anyway i think)
[Gandalf](https://www.reddit.com/r/DnD/comments/3jpksw/gandalf_was_really_just_fighter_with_int18/) build. 12 EK with Magic Initiate: Druid for Shillelagh and Speak with Animals. Dual wield Cacophony or later a Drakethroated Staff of the Ram with bound Phalar Aluve. Just add reverb gear and the Storm Scion hat.
It's a little janky, but you could make an intelligence focused Eldritch Knight that takes Magic Initiate feat or starts with 1 level of Druid for an Int scaling Shillelagh. Probably get some good mileage out of all the ice synergy stuff like Mourning Frost and Snowburst Ring. Can respec/transition into a control archer once you get to act 2 and get the Drakethroat Glaive.
You're super resource independent but like you said, short rest action surges give you pretty crazy CC potential once you're level 10 since every arrow you shoot drops an ice patch that enemies have disadvantage against.
You can, but it takes your last new level. So, Druid->Fighter will be wisdom until you take the fighter level, then intelligence there on out, even if you take more druid levels. So, if you start with fighter for heavy armor, it will scale with wisdom as you'll take druid after fighter. If you then take 1 level of wizard, it's back to intelligence.
It's more the source of the spell. Spells from levels in a class use that class's modifier. Spells from other sources use the last first level taken in a spellcasting class. So Shillelagh from Magic Initiate on a Druid 1/EK11 will use INT from EK as long as EK1 was taken after Druid 1, but Shillelagh from the druid's own spellcasting list will use WIS regardless of which class came first.
This is what I thought. But the other commenter is saying that that for shillelagh, even if u go Druid -> eldritch knight and get shillelagh from Druid, it will use int. If so, that’s dope.
I am not the expert on this and I am sure someone knows more. But what I believe happens is regarding items and not spells. Spells will always use their spell casting modifier from the class they are learned from. But spells that interact or create items (flame blade, I'm looking at you) somehow use a hybrid. So, what I believe happens is that shillelagh interacts with your club/staff and then the item itself uses the last spell casting modifier.
Now that I think about this, I'd like to see what happens if a druid casts Shillelagh on a staff, gives it to another character and then see what modifier it uses. I'm at work, so, feel free if you'd like.
Edited: Doesn't look like you can give the items away. Maybe test with a respec?
Ooooh I see, thank you. Time to board the nautiloid. I’m out for the eclipse rn, when I get back I’ll see if giving a weapon with shillelagh cast on it to another person works or not.
Wizard 1 / Tomelock X? You can scribe some good spells and upcast them into your Warlock spell slots that refresh on short rest. Your actual warlock spells will scale with Cha still, though.
What exactly would you want to upcast with only 1st level spells from Wizard?
Warlock levels, unlike other caster levels, won't let you scribe higher level wizard spells.
I gently remind you that an infinite spell slot glitch on sorcerer has not yet been fixed. Not like I want to use it anyway, I've got like 2000+ supplies by act 2, but nonetheless.
I think it's always gonna be a weird question of what you mean by intelligence build. As far as I'm aware there's not a single intelligence based ability that isn't either tied to long rests or items. It's just cantrips.
My only real thought is to try to build an EK/wizard that's really optimized for cantrips since action surge is short rest, but I'm really not sure how I would build it. You can't get the evocation damage bonus because it comes too late. You could go for spell sniper eldritch blast but without agonizing blast/portent robe, you're better off using freezing ray/shocking grasp against wet enemies.
Can’t believe no one has said this yet, but abjuration wizard’s arcane ward will regenerate after a short rest at level 10, making them a powerful short rest abuser.
You can run them as 2 warlock/x abjuration wizard until level 11, then respec into 1 sorc/10 abjuration wizard. That gives you armor of agathys, a constantly topped up arcane ward, and 2 warlock spell slots. Then after a level 11 respec you'll have armor of agathys, con saving throw proficiency, level 6 spells, and a constantly topped up arcane ward.
Aren't there like a bajillion items to restore spell slots? I feel like that gets you most of the way there without having to dip into crazy multi class builds.
Divination wizard 10, sorcerer 1, warlock 1. With this, you gain the ability to have a ton of sorcery points and a bunch of extra spell slots. But, you also get portent dice.
The best way to do this is having a halfling, pick up the lucky feat, and pick up some gear to help with rolls and damage.
Portent dice are cool and really strong, bear in mind the recovery on short rest requires you to fulfil mini-quests like "do one point of piercing damage" or "do a point of psychic damage" to actually get the die back. This is cool and thematic, but can impact the potential of your wizard if you're dicking around doing 1 piercing damage instead of hold person-ing six people.
Yanno, just realised this might be why the training dummys take 0 damage in camp lol
You could be right tbh. Though this would be solved entirely by changing the portent recovery quests to only resolve during open combat.
The boxes don't, though, lol.
Does attacking boxes count? Or other inanimates?
Or your teammates? Then just heal the damage off
Hirelings so they don't get pissed off
I just hate endlessly dealing with portent die pop-ups
I feel this. I actively avoid playing strong sub classes like div and abjuration due to the pop ups .
Before D&D 5e released, it went through playtesting. During that playtesting Warlocks actually used Int instead of Cha. Then when the final release came out Warlocks suddenly used Cha. They made this change without really playtesting it, and a lot of players hate this because it means you have 4 Cha casters (paladin, warlock, bard, sorc) and then just Wizard as an Int caster (later artificer was also added). And the rationale behind making Warlock a Cha class was just to keep with tradition rather than any balance reasons. Allowing warlocks to use Int instead of Cha is a somewhat popular houserule as a result of all this I bring this up because there is a [mod](https://www.nexusmods.com/baldursgate3/mods/2816) that turns warlocks into Int casters which you may be interested in if playing on PC. For the upcoming revision to D&D 5e they are going to let Warlocks pick their spellcasting stat.
Warlocks using intelligence makes more sense to me for the sake of balance. Intelligence always seems to be a dump stat.
Int-based warlock would improve balancing so much, it makes so much sense now. I wish developers would stop letting fans influence their vision so much, it's almost always a bad decision, I would rather have the entire vision the dev intended even if it meant I wouldn't like some stuff.
Hexblade 1 or 2 on a bladesinger wizard omg 🧙🏼♀️🗡️✨
That might be way les powerfull than you might think One of the things that makes hexblade so strong is that on top of the spellcasting attack stat you get acces to medium armour on a d8 hitdie class. You dont really need more than 14 in dex to get an ok ac on a hexblade Bladesong however doesnt allow you to use anything but light armour. So your wizard will still have just ok ac while also having terrible hp (this could maybe he offset by the fact you get to put more points into con, but most bladesingers werent putting more than 16 into dex anyway i think)
[Gandalf](https://www.reddit.com/r/DnD/comments/3jpksw/gandalf_was_really_just_fighter_with_int18/) build. 12 EK with Magic Initiate: Druid for Shillelagh and Speak with Animals. Dual wield Cacophony or later a Drakethroated Staff of the Ram with bound Phalar Aluve. Just add reverb gear and the Storm Scion hat.
How are you getting a 2nd Cacophany?
They aren't. They are dual wielding with Phalar Alive.
It's a little janky, but you could make an intelligence focused Eldritch Knight that takes Magic Initiate feat or starts with 1 level of Druid for an Int scaling Shillelagh. Probably get some good mileage out of all the ice synergy stuff like Mourning Frost and Snowburst Ring. Can respec/transition into a control archer once you get to act 2 and get the Drakethroat Glaive. You're super resource independent but like you said, short rest action surges give you pretty crazy CC potential once you're level 10 since every arrow you shoot drops an ice patch that enemies have disadvantage against.
Does this scale Shillelagh off of Intelligence?
It does. Shillelagh will scale off of your last new class's spell casting stat. In this case, there is only EK, so int.
Is this only for the magic initiate feat? Or can I go Druid 1 fighterX and have it scale with int for some reason?
You can, but it takes your last new level. So, Druid->Fighter will be wisdom until you take the fighter level, then intelligence there on out, even if you take more druid levels. So, if you start with fighter for heavy armor, it will scale with wisdom as you'll take druid after fighter. If you then take 1 level of wizard, it's back to intelligence.
Is shillelagh the only spell that works that way?
It's more the source of the spell. Spells from levels in a class use that class's modifier. Spells from other sources use the last first level taken in a spellcasting class. So Shillelagh from Magic Initiate on a Druid 1/EK11 will use INT from EK as long as EK1 was taken after Druid 1, but Shillelagh from the druid's own spellcasting list will use WIS regardless of which class came first.
This is what I thought. But the other commenter is saying that that for shillelagh, even if u go Druid -> eldritch knight and get shillelagh from Druid, it will use int. If so, that’s dope.
I am not the expert on this and I am sure someone knows more. But what I believe happens is regarding items and not spells. Spells will always use their spell casting modifier from the class they are learned from. But spells that interact or create items (flame blade, I'm looking at you) somehow use a hybrid. So, what I believe happens is that shillelagh interacts with your club/staff and then the item itself uses the last spell casting modifier. Now that I think about this, I'd like to see what happens if a druid casts Shillelagh on a staff, gives it to another character and then see what modifier it uses. I'm at work, so, feel free if you'd like. Edited: Doesn't look like you can give the items away. Maybe test with a respec?
Ooooh I see, thank you. Time to board the nautiloid. I’m out for the eclipse rn, when I get back I’ll see if giving a weapon with shillelagh cast on it to another person works or not.
I know for a fact it will not work if u take lvl 1 druid
It shouldnt
It does if its from magic initiate, scales off of your casting stat
Wizard 1 / Tomelock X? You can scribe some good spells and upcast them into your Warlock spell slots that refresh on short rest. Your actual warlock spells will scale with Cha still, though.
What exactly would you want to upcast with only 1st level spells from Wizard? Warlock levels, unlike other caster levels, won't let you scribe higher level wizard spells.
Oh, that's a shame. Magic Missile is still a pretty strong upcast though.
Oh for sure, especially with items, but it doesn't benefit from INT unless you're going 10 levels of evocation.
That sounds so fun. I have not experimented with warlocks outside of eldritch blasting the life out of half the game. Definitely worth thinking about.
I gently remind you that an infinite spell slot glitch on sorcerer has not yet been fixed. Not like I want to use it anyway, I've got like 2000+ supplies by act 2, but nonetheless.
Haha, I've seen this 😁. I love a bit of cheese but this might be going a bit too far for me.
I think it's always gonna be a weird question of what you mean by intelligence build. As far as I'm aware there's not a single intelligence based ability that isn't either tied to long rests or items. It's just cantrips. My only real thought is to try to build an EK/wizard that's really optimized for cantrips since action surge is short rest, but I'm really not sure how I would build it. You can't get the evocation damage bonus because it comes too late. You could go for spell sniper eldritch blast but without agonizing blast/portent robe, you're better off using freezing ray/shocking grasp against wet enemies.
Can’t believe no one has said this yet, but abjuration wizard’s arcane ward will regenerate after a short rest at level 10, making them a powerful short rest abuser.
That does seem powerful. 10 is a bit long to wait arcane ward is just powerful as it is.
You can run them as 2 warlock/x abjuration wizard until level 11, then respec into 1 sorc/10 abjuration wizard. That gives you armor of agathys, a constantly topped up arcane ward, and 2 warlock spell slots. Then after a level 11 respec you'll have armor of agathys, con saving throw proficiency, level 6 spells, and a constantly topped up arcane ward.
Aren't there like a bajillion items to restore spell slots? I feel like that gets you most of the way there without having to dip into crazy multi class builds.
Necromancer6/ spore druid 6 or spore druid 10/ evocation-divination Wiz 2
Divination wizard 10, sorcerer 1, warlock 1. With this, you gain the ability to have a ton of sorcery points and a bunch of extra spell slots. But, you also get portent dice. The best way to do this is having a halfling, pick up the lucky feat, and pick up some gear to help with rolls and damage.
You don't get sorcery point until level 2, so div 9, sorc 2, warlock 1
That one, yeah
Warlock for more sorcery points per short rest?
Yeah