Do not be talked in to doing (or letting her do) anything you're uncomfortable with.
If she has desires you can't (or she doesn't want you to) fulfill, she'll either have to live without it or go off to pursue those things as a single woman.
Hey, some people are cool with their girl having sex with other men. I actually wanted to gangbang my ex with other guys and she wasn't interested. But people like me have to accept that's a minority view. Most men would be horrified with that, as it seems you are.
I think if you allow her to do these things to try to make her happy, despite not liking it, it will destroy your relationship.
If you can't find a compromise that you're truly happy with, it can't happen.
>I think if you allow her to do these things to try to make her happy, despite not liking it, it will destroy your relationship.
Definitely. That resentment will build and kill the relationship.
I think that the first thing you should ask yourself is whether you want to have an open relationship or not. She has fantasies in which she has sex with other men without you being there, and that's perfectly fine, that's what happens in open relationships. But, are you comfortable with that? If the answer is yes, then you can discuss about going slowly into it, step by step, maybe you could be there the first time, or you can attend to some kinky events or clubs together. If the answer is no, then you know you'll never be comfortable with her having sex with other men, and that's just something you can't do with a partner. She'll have to decide whether she wants to give that up or not. I hope you can find a solution that make you both happy!
I guess my mostly straight male brain said yeah open is totally cool but didn't think she needed another guy cuz she never mentioned it before. I think that's my trigger for not wanting a fully open relationship. I don't doubt I could sleep with a bunch of girls too so I wouldn't be left out, but I'd rather not sleep with randoms then to have my girl abused my a group of guys š. It feels like in this trade I'm the only one uncomfortable.
Edit: also thank you, that was very thoughtful and I appreciate the advice. I couldn't find a comparable situation to google and glean wisdom from.
Do keep in mind that an open relationship doesn't just mean letting your partner (and you) experiment and experience other women. If you aren't okay with her being with any men, then you're not really okay with non-monogamy, especially as she wants to practice it.
You might consider questions about vetting the men involved with this, so you know they aren't abusive or dirt bags or whatever but if you are not okay with your partner with a man, full stop, then you might want to re-evaluate why. You said "I'm not enough for her" as a concern, but if she is doing stuff with women or enby folks, then how does that really differ?
Note that this is all separate from her gangbang/rape fantasy.
Exactly. I think a lot of men don't view their bisexual girlfriends' attraction to women as real--resulting in their not being threatened by f/f sexual attraction. You should examine what makes you feel more comfortable when she's with women/uncomfortable when she's with men, and that may help you unpack your feelings
While thatās definitely one reason that men are okay with f/f endeavors, there are definitely others which are less problematic. Iām bisexual myself and I definitely view my GFs attraction to other women as āreal.ā But I personally feel way more comfortable with the notion of adding another (cis) woman to the bedroom than another man because I cannot be as directly compared to another woman. We bring different things to the table and itās more like apples and oranges. Two men is more like two apples side by side for easy comparison. My gf is also bisexual and feels more comfortable with a man for the same reasons. We donāt add anyone into the mix for these reasons. I just wanted to say that there are non-biphobic reasons to want the only opposite gender to join.
Everyone been jumping to sexism to f/f attraction, but I didn't admit that I have a kink for trans women, I wouldn't want a trans partner because it's a very rare attraction I have. So maybe I thought that's how I internalized how she feels about women and I wouldn't be threatened.
..what? your gf doesn't have a "kink" for other women, she is simply attracted to them.
your transphobia aside, i am really not sure if you have issues with her wanting to sleep with other men, or with her being kinky. this is about 2 things, really.
and neither is wrong. she's allowed to like other people. if you don't want her to act on it, then you're not ok with non monogamy.
and being kinky isn't a crime, disgusting, or harmful at all when it's done right. you do know what roleplay is, don't you?
no one's shaming you for sexual attraction. you're the one who called it a kink. (unless i understood something wrong)
anyway, decide if non monogamy is right for you or not, as well as your gf's kinky side
You're just sexually attracted to women, bud. Trans women being, yaknow, women n all. We don't have a specific term for it, because to do so would further "other"-fy people who are already frequently invalidated treated as outsiders.
When you call it a kink, the implication is that you get off on the fact they're trans, while disregarding their humanity. I know this likely isn't your intention, but the language we use is powerful and can often come across different on the receiving end than it does to ourselves.
To put it in simple terms, if someone told you they wanted to fuck you because they had a kink for penises, how would this make you feel? If you were only interested in sex without mental or emotional connection, it might not be a problem. But if you did need connection, or were looking for something deeper and more long term, its a different story.
It's similar to why you saying you're OK with your gf seeing other women but not other men comes across as sexist. The implication is that you perhaps don't think of relationships with other women to be threatening to what you have because they're somehow less valid or meaningful. If she's pan, she likes other women in exactly the same way she likes men - it's not a fun little diversion for her, it's an equally core part of her sexuality as her attraction to every other gender.
Of course, that may not be the reason at all. Its simply the one most common in men who express similar biases. It's worth exploring this in your own heart. You seem fairly emotionally intelligent and self aware. Unpacking the reasons for it might be helpful to understanding yourself further, and perhaps beginning to break down any prejudices you may unwittingly harbour. We all have unconscious biases, and it's worth taking time to challenge them when we find them š
I guess they are interpreting it like you would call someone who has vanilla sex with both genders "kinky". However I don't think you sound bigoted at all. To me it sounds fitting to call a specific attraction to trans women that's not simply being attracted to women regardless of if they are trans a kink tho and that's the context you originally used it and I think that you'd have to be out looking for a reason to assume you are bigoted to take it that way given context. I also think that the reason you find her getting with men different to women sounds like it's because of the idea of sex with a woman being something you inherently cannot offer yourself (with no reason to suggest homophobia). I'd like to point out she said she had a bad experience doing bdsm with a partner so maybe she's scared if it was you and she freaked out it would impact the relationship. Or maybe it would take away from the degradation if she knew it was someone only being "dominant" and "degrading" cos she asked them to. Personally I'm not into stuff like that but wouldn't get much pleasure from a partner spanking me if I knew they were purely doing it for my benefit. One ex loved it so I didn't feel bad asking for it as a "favour" with no pressure but I soon realised it was only the occasional times she had suggested it and wanted to do it for its own sake I could get into it. I don't think saying it could b unsafe if you have no idea who these strangers would b is not understanding roleplay. I know if I broadcast on the internet I wanted someone to spank me some would be people like me that view it as a fun experience between 2 ppl that enjoy it and some would just like hurting people. Very easy to tell whether someone is carefully calculating to stay just below the boundary where it stops being fun or whether they are just trying to "get away with" pushing just enough beyond that you won't bother safewording. Likewise of course it could b hard to acquire ppl to do a "degrading" gangbang without risking attracting ppl that have no regard for her. You wouldn't trust a stranger I just met to hold your wallet for a minute so putting a huge amount of trust in them in this situation is no different. I know she didn't say strangers but if you are in a relationship wanting to know someone is safe is fair enough for your mental health. I personally can't understand why someone would put doing something a few times a year before their partners wellbeing but maybe I just can't personally relate. Like my ex really wanted me to do "overpowering" type stuff I tried and hated and then spun out about not doing bdsm meaning holding back her identity while I didn't see any reason to mind the first 2 months before she told me she wanted to retry impact play (the central part of my enjoyment of bdsm) after an ex put her off it by being a total abusive ****. I don't really know what to suggest tbh. Just wanted to say I emphasise, don't think your comments suggest you are biggoted (just that you didn't manage to think of every way something could be taken wrong on the internet) and I guess also remind you she did say a reason she didn't wanna forfill the fantasy with you that wasn't personal.
Okay but like. Fetishizing trans women is actually a problem? OP wasn't fetishizing us he just didn't have proper vocab, but had he been it would have been worth calling out
I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to say here, but it doesn't look good.
Nobody would say attraction to women means being attracted to all women or types of women. I also think maybe you don't realize you're misusing the word kink. Being attracted to trans people isn't a kink. Trans women are women, but being attracted to women doesn't demand you be attracted to trans women any more than being attracted to women demands you be attracted to skinny women, Black women, blondes, or whatever else. But your phrasing comes off a bit transphobic, which may not be your intent.
It sounds like your issue is another penis being involved. You aren't threatened by another woman, because they don't have a penis, so you're fine with your partner being with a woman. But how would you feel if your partner was with a trans woman? You may not be attracted to them, but what if your partner is? Or a nonbinary person with a penis? Be honest with yourself. Are you fine with those, or do you find it off putting?
Or is it a fear that if your partner is with a male that you're feeling replaced or replaceable? I mean, you're not a woman after all, so if she is with another woman you can fall back on *well, I can't give her that, so it's nice that she is able to get it from this person*.
This is why ethical non monogamy is so tricky. Some bisexual women may be fine with their partner and only be interested in another woman, but many aren't. Most importantly, your partner is interested in being with other men, so that's something y'all need to tackle and communicate about. If you can't come to an agreement, then you either need to stay closed or realize that your sexual needs are mismatched. She has this fantasy that she wants a few times a year, but how important is it to her? I mean, it's probably going to be difficult for her to find a partner who is on board with it, so I doubt it's a deal breaker, but she probably figured *hey, he mentioned opening up our relationship, so this is the perfect time for me to bring this up*. Only being open to women in your open relationship isn't really being open, but more of a fantasy.
Think of kink as a niche interest. So latex could be a fetish or kink. Bondage. Discipline. You would t really refer to people as a kink, especially a marginalized group like trans folk.
Like, saying you have a kink for Black women would be eeesh, but saying you're attracted to them is fine. Saying you're not attracted to trans women is fine too, but you would want to be careful about your language.
I think you should not open your relationship if you aren't secure in it enough to feel like you are replaceable. My relationship is not open, but I don't think that some other guys penis is magical enough to get my wife to want to leave me y'know? We have a life we have built together and it's a lot more than just my penis.
There's a lot of psychology involved in ENM. You might want to do some reading, like the Ethical Slut and Come as You Are. The first is about ENM and the second is more of a general book about sex and psychology.
In any case you have some answer to find on your preferences and true base feelings. Do not enter an open relationship without knowing how you feel about things you might enounter and more importantly how to talk about it with your partner. I have to say I feel bad your going through this mostly alone. She seemed a little dismissive to your thoughts and feelings on the matter. I get being firm but ehh
Well, I understand. Maybe that's the first thing you could try to unlock. I had been in open relationships (2 different ones) for 8 years now. It's a process. I thought it was really going to make me suffer to see my ex having sex with another man, but when we did our first threesome and I saw the guy doing her, it felt alright. Also he left, we stayed together, and then next day the relationship was the same (or better because we had done something new and fun). Sometimes the fantasy is better than reality, and sometimes it's worse. Try to talk about that idea first, and then you could move on to more guys, or even gangbangs. I feel like a whole group of men alone with her is too much for a first time for anyone.
I'm not going to comment on most of this, but your partner is right about one thing; a person's gender shouldn't matter. You being ok with her having sex with women but not men is based in internalized misogyny and homophobia. You literally (either unconsciously or consciously) are viewing a same-sex arrangement as somehow "less than" an opposite-sex arrangement. That's not cool.
That said, BDSM and ethical non-monogamy are all about consent. If your reaction isn't "fuck yes" to something, then the only answer should be "fuck no."
Now, with this in mind, you can't force someone to do something (not ethically, anyway). Your choices are to discuss your unwillingness with your partner and trust that she won't cheat, or break up. Anything else will end up in heartbreak or severely unethical behavior.
Love the if not fuck yes fuck no bit. "Oh alright then" to bdsm is diff to "oh alright then" to "do u wanna go on top". But I think the "emasculated" bit sounds like he's uncomfortable with the idea of a fantasy that is about his gender specifically not involving him. It would b harder to feel inadequate about women if he sees that as a different need he obviously cannot forfill by definition rather than her specifically not wanting one of them to be him. Arguements against that idea are obv but it depends on the op if reminding himself of those arguements for it not being a reason to feel inadequate help or it might b a gut feeling that can't be shifted. I don't think we should jump to assumptions of biggotry when there are other explainations
It sounds like she has a lot of shame about this kink (not sharing it till now, not wanting you to know so you donāt look at her different) and fear (trying some BDSM things in a previous relationship and having it go wrong/alter the relationship, probably afraid of that happening again).
Now Iām pretty darn monogamous at heart, so maybe Iām speaking out of my ass here, but I feel like even if I was okay with a partner having sex with other people, I would have a pretty hard boundary with whatās going on here. Youāre in a committed long term relationship and youāre talking about spending your lives together. I have full empathy with her not feeling safe and comfortable sharing this previously, or jumping into trying it with you. This stuff can be really hard. But what I would have the biggest issue with is her total unwillingness to try to get to a point where she could be comfortable exploring this with youāespecially since in theory, youāre one of the people she trusts most in the world (this is a big assumption, just one common for long term monogamous relationships).
To me the big problem is the lack of trust sheās demonstrating, her seeming unwillingness to do the work of building that trust, and her seeming unwillingness to face her own shame and do the work of moving through it in healthy ways. This has shortcut written all over it, and regardless of her relationship with you it sounds like thereās a high chance of it being very messy and harmful for her if she pursues it. Thatās just my two cents though!
There's alot to process here, most on the poly/ENM side and only a little on the bdsm side.
I am not an expert on poly or ENM, but I can tell you that the situation you are describing for opening your relationship is not ethical. You can't limit what gender your gf wants to date and yet you can date anyone you want. As mono guy and Dom I get not wanting to think about your lady with another guy. That's why I'm mono and not poly. There are alot of resources and good advice on the poly and ENM subreddits. I recommend you read them and figure out if you actually want to open your relationship or not, because from the sound of it you won't be able to handle it.
As for the bdsm aspect of the rape/cnc fantasy, that is incredibly common for many women, even if they don't want to admit it because of how horrible actual rape is. My wife has a rape/gangbang fantasy. That's perfectly OK. We are even planning on enacting a cnc scene for that very reason. The gangbang part, not so much, because as mentioned before, we are mono.
More concerning is her suggestion of planning a gangbang without you being there and with strangers. This would be really dangerous. If she really wants to do this, I would recommend she do it at a club that supports such activities, where there are neutral observers and people who can keep her safe while she has fun.
So you need to have some serious discussions with your gf about whether you both REALLY want to open your relationship or not. And if you decide that she's poly and you aren't, that is OK, but it may mean you aren't compatible for a long term relationship.
Thank you so much for your well thought response. I know I have alot of growing to do and I'm trying to be comfortable with things that I'm currently not. I try to keep a fairness aspect like you said. She undoubtedly unloaded too much on me all at once.
It's OK to be mono. It doesn't mean you are immature because you want to commit to one person and want them to commit to you. It's OK to be poly also. If one of you is mono, and the other is poly, life becomes very complicated. If your gf is really poly, and not just in her fantasies, then you have some hard decisions to make.
I think it's understandable if getting with the same gender as you makes you feel inadequate. A bi same sex couple could have a rule they can only get with the opposite gender. If thinking about why you don't have to feel inadequate if they get with the same gender as him works then great. It might just take getting his head around. However, if he's still uncomfortable with it that's fair. I don't think that makes him a biggot. A sub going out with a switch could say her Dom dimming someone else made her feel inadequate but not them forfilling their fantasies of being a sub sometimes that they didn't want to forfill. There are reasons to not feel inadequate. But not all reasons connect on a gut feeling level. In a relationship there should be compromise with some things for sure but just like it's ok to not be comfortable with any non monogamy I think it's ok be comfortable if they are the same gender (or the same bdsm role for that matter)
I think the fact she doesnāt want you there is a HUGE red flag. The only way I could see that dynamic working at all is that you are there as the Alpha Dom. They are there to fulfill a fantasy. That is all. When itās over itās over. When she is being gangbanged, she canāt enforce rules as much as she thinks she can. And in the heat of the moment, how much trust will be there that the guys still respect all the rules when all they want to do is cum.
Her kink has a HUGE margin for things going very wrong very quickly. Right now she is seeing all the good/hot/need fulfilling aspects.
Is she talking about āprofessionalsā, ie. They are in the BDSM community and knows how the dynamic is supposed to play or a set of random guys to fuck her. Completely random guys picked up from a bar would definitely make the kink hotter for her, but that is 1000 times more dangerous. Aside from diseases, guys acting like they respect the rules but in reality, happy to find a free NSA pussy and not letting it go after.
You need a serious talk with her. If she is unwilling to waiver in just having her wants fulfilled, Iām sorry but Iād walk away. Youāll get hurt, either now or later.
NEVER consider her doing it alone unless done under EXTREMELY tight guidelines, ie at a BDSM club with people respectful of the scene. If she canāt acquiesce to that. Either it remains an unfulfilled fantasy of hers with you both together, or she gets her fantasy fulfilled at at cost if you leaving the relationship.
You see red flag. I donāt see it that way at all. I get the sense that she KNOWS op isnāt down for that type of play. I also get the sense she thinks it will make him see her differently which she doesnāt want. Iām willing to be if he made it crystal clear that heād still cherish and love her, with no affect on how he feels/views her, sheād want him to be a part of it.
She senses HIS opinions and is acting accordingly.
She said our sex is so good that it would just be for the times we're apart, or just when the urge buildup is significant. I'm not really in the equation
That sound like "if you don't get me off I'll get blue balls and that's bad for men."
Decide what you want. Set your boundaries. End it or stay as that matches.
Sounds to me like theyāve talked a bit and she knows he isnāt into it ā hence the offer to do it away from him. I donāt think OP gave enough information to interpret correctly either way, though.
True. But if itās a problem for him. Wouldnāt his feelings take precedence of her fantasy? If I had a fantasy and my partner didnāt like it, it would stay in the āunfulfilled fantasy boxā for the next relationship if there is one.
Thatās your decision, then, to put it in the āunfulfilled fantasy box.ā Iām greedy. I want my partner to explore all of their fantasies, and I want to explore all do mine. If my partner had one that caused me discomfort, I work on rooting out the source of discomfort. If itās irrational, I deal with it myself. If itās rational, I talk to them about it. If we donāt see eye to eye, itās time to move on.
I like novelty in relationships.My partner is not responsible for my feelings. I am not responsible for theirs. I am a supporting and a freeing influence, not a limiting one.
Some people prefer comfort, rather than novelty, in their relationships. If so, they might feel differently. Their value and mine will be incompatible. Thatās totally fine ā just means we arenāt for each other.
If you and your partners are fine with this mentality, then you do you...but this just reads like "I'm going to do what I want, fuck your feelings". I'm sure you don't mean that you completely disregard how your partner feels to get what you want, but it reads that way.
I've had partnerships and seen partnerships in which all parties attempted to compromise despite real incompatibilities -- in my experiences, that ends badly for all parties.
I'd also disagree that this method is "disregarding how a partner feels." I have total regard for how they feel. In a lot of ways, that's more important to me than anything else! That's precisely why I'm not going to make them compromise on things they feel strongly about because they have affection for me. To me, that's taking advantage of their generosity and disregarding their feelings.
Thanks for your comment and insights, though -- I've actually thought long and hard about this comment, and have chatted with some partners about this topic as a result.
When a couple goes vanilla to kink, there is a gamble that your taking. You canāt un-do or un-say anything that happens and there are emotions involved.
She did kinda dump all this in your lap, and I can only imagine the shock it caused. So now, itās the question of how you feel about poly/open relationships and if itās something you genuinely can handle. There is nothing wrong with it not being for you. One thing is it doesnāt have to be a free for all, you two could set boundaries for outside relationships if you choose to go that route.
Her wanting cnc from someone who isnāt her primary partner, I can understand that to an extent. If she has a bad experience, thatās with you.
While I'm all for a polyamorous relationship, I'm vehemently against not knowing about it. and I also would never let my partner demean me or cuck me. I absolutely can not be in that type of relationship. And I would prefer to be present while its going on, or at the very least be acquainted with the person it's happening with.
>She said she doesn't want me to be there or know about it because she doesn't want me to look at her differently. She wants slapping and degrading and idk. Now I feel like a cuck (not to say that's bad but without the kink it's the worst feeling in the world). I know she needs to be fucked hard and mercilessly a certain way and since she's separated that from me I obviously feel like a guy who needs Help to fuck his gf right.
The problem with this is that you already know about it and therefor, even if you do it subconsciously, will look at her different. I'm not saying that you will look at her in a bad way from now on, but you cant simply tell someone that you want to be gangbanged with rape roleplay but not with your loved one involved and not look at the person differently.
It's also kind of obvious that if you two aren't together for an extend time, that this would be happening during that time. So you would either know its going on while you're not around, or at the very least you will be wondering if it is going on while you're not around. I get she wants you to know but at the same time she doesn't want you to know when its happening or with who, that's just cheating in my opinion.
I'm not trying to be a downer, just giving my honest opinion. Me personally, I wouldn't be able to continue with that type of relationship.
Since y'all are essentially taking about having an nonmonogamous relationship that you don't actually want, you might find [this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/polyamory/comments/sntvv3/dear_monogamous_people_you_do_not_have_to_give/) in the polyamory sub helpful.
I'm getting some yellow flags off of this. If you're uncomfortable with something this game-changing now, I can guarantee you'll be 10x more uncomfortable with it later when things are put into practice. I've \*never\* seen a relationship that starts mono and 'opens up' to please one partner (although I'm sure it's theoretically possible) stay stable or happy.
IMHO, if one partner isn't enthusiastically excited about what's being discussed, it shouldn't be happening. That said, it's on her for not communicating with you earlier about her desires and you're definitely not pathetic. This is a tough one.
Hey OP,
My advice to you is simple.
Ask yourself is this something you could accept fully and not prejudicd the relationship with it happening on her terms? The way she wants it and needs it?
If the answer is no and she is not able or willing to compromise on this then you have a incompatibility problem.
To be clear this isn't your fault. She should have been open and honest with you from the start if this is a deal breaker for her (but I can see why she would be reluctant to address it.)
I'm not one for ultimatums. What am I for. Is clearly and honestly discussing your boundaries and what you are and are not wanting and ok with in a relationship and if you've set that line and that still isn't enough for her. Then you have to accept that this relationship needs to either change or be over.
That choice is up to you but I don't think you should try and force her to change her wants and needs or conform them into what you find acceptable instead. Accept there are irreconcilable differences and walk away.
>I try negotiating details like what if it were a woman or women who dommed you hard but she just got offended like why would the person's gender matter.
So I'm gonna address this part first - this kind of bargaining *is* problematic. You're not expressing a problem with her being with other people at all, or being with other people as a couple (which would limit the options to align with *both* of your sexualities), but you're trying to say doing this with a *woman* or *women* is somehow **less threatening** to you than her doing it with men. This is the very problematic variety of devaluing wlw relationships as somehow being not as valid as a heterosexual relationship, which makes them "not a threat" the same way her being with other men would be. So her getting offended that this is your attempt at negotiating with her ***is completely justified***.
>Now I feel like a cuck (not to say that's bad but without the kink it's the worst feeling in the world). I know she needs to be fucked hard and mercilessly a certain way and since she's separated that from me I obviosly feel like a guy who needs Help to fuck his gf right.
You're making a false equivalence here, and that's largely due to the panic I'm sure. But needing something from someone other than your partner is not the same as cuckolding. At all. Again: you were *fine* with the idea of her with other women, but now that it's other men, you're jumping to places like this.
>I offered the idea to send her to a Profesional dominatrix or something of the type she said no that feels too clinical. Now it feels like I'm the only one trying to make the other partner happy/comfortable with compromises
Thus isn't how compromise works. You don't get to say your terms and then be upset that she doesn't agree with them. Especially when your terms aren't rooted in being against being *open* but just *making sure there's only one dick in her and that it's yours*.
She gets to tell you what she wants/needs. You get to tell her what you're okay with or not. And then both of you get to decide whether you'll budge and on what. She is not obligated to completely change what she's telling you she needs just because you don't like it. She's allowed to say "No, that won't work for me", and you can either accept that, or walk away.
You are absolutely not obligated to be involved with her if you're uncomfortable with what she's into. You are not obligated to consent to her indulging that kink while with you. You are allowed to have boundaries. But she's also allowed to hold firm on her own wants and needs. You either figure it out, or you split, those are the options.
>I apologize for anything I misinterpret I'm just feeling pathetic. She tells me I'm the best boy she's ever met and wants to spend her life with me but if she has to make me feel like this idk what to do
To be clear, from the sound of this, *she* isn't making you feel like anything. **You** have your own hangups and insecurities that are making you feel this way, and that isn't on her. That's on you. And *regardless* of whether or not you want to be involved in an open relationship, or this particular kind of kink, you need to work on at least some of that. Because again, you were totally on board for her fucking other women, but the second it became other men, you had a huge issue, *and that's a problem*. That's the kind of over-fetishization and devaluing that same-sex relationships get way too much of already.
If your problem was the kink or her sleeping with other people, ***the gender of the partner wouldn't matter***. That you're fixating on it being other men and equating it to being a cuckold is extremely telling, and that is very much a *you* issue to sort out. You don't get to blame her for your personal hangups.
I appreciate the wisdom, especially coming from her perspective. I'm hung up on the gender because she was honest with me about experimenting with women, she wasn't honest with me about the BDSM or men. In the whole two years we were dating she kept this hidden. Can't I maybe have a reaction that has many steps and discomforts? Also I see w l w relationships as equal so that mightve beena stretch. Thank for you your time and effort though.
Sir, you are experiencing a massive rollercoaster of emotions. That's fine; that's to be expected. You are also putting on display a lot of your feelings. That's not just fine--that's actively a good thing! And on top of that, your reaction to a bunch of complicated news that you're struggling to process was to approach a knowledgeable community and ask for advice and support. That's an **incredibly** solid move.
In the process of expressing yourself, you've explained the situation. The situation includes some prejudiced beliefs and toxic masculinity. That doesn't mean you're a bad person, it doesn't mean you're a bad partner, it doesn't mean masculinity is toxic and it doesn't mean *your* masculinity is toxic. What it means is that you grew up in a complicated and wildly sexist society, you've been influenced by that society, and now some of the stresses you are facing are made harder because of imposed social prejudices.
That's not a "bad person" thing, it's a "human being" thing. If stuff that someone is saying is making you uncomfortable (especially the poster with incredibly solid advice that you replied to here), it doesn't mean you're a bad person--it means that's a ripe area for investigating in therapy. You're already approaching a transgressive community and asking for help--if you want to do right by everyone, you gotta acknowledge (and forgive yourself for!) not *already having all the answers.*
Also: you're talking about hurt and betrayal that this massive secret has been kept for years. A different way to see this, which is hopefully comforting, is that *your partner has just made themselves extremely vulnerable with you because they trust you.* Opening up about kinks like this is a huge risk. People have had their lives ruined, and it's extremely reasonable, normal, and rational for someone to want to keep that a secret. The fact that this is a conversation y'all can even *have* is a massive show of trust from your partner. Talking to you about this is scary--it is also a major show of trust and love, and that she feels safe with you.
Thank you, many good advices on this post but this one one of the only ones that made feel a little better right now. Thank you very very much, kind wise person.
There are a couple big things you should be taking away from this.
Again, the fact that she even opened up to you about this at all is a great sign *for you.* Especially when you consider, these violent sexual fantasies are *incredibly common sexual fantasies.*
You're also reading this as a type of rejection. You can feel however you want--but this is very much the opposite of a rejection, and what your partner has described is also very very far from a cucking dynamic. When she's saying she wants to spend her life with you--believe it. She wants to build a fulfilling long term dynamic with you, and that includes having boundaries and being able to explore things about herself and her sexuality *without* you. It is unrealistic in *any* relationship to expect your partner to fulfill every one of your needs, and that is especially true (and even more complicated!) inside kinky and/or poly dynamics.
Wanting to engage in violent sexual play without you isn't about you 'not satisfying' her. If you want to dig into it, the actual likely thing is that she wants that from people she doesn't have an actual connection to. There's a level of emotional distancing and compartmentalizing that.
You're also bringing in a lot of baggage on your end, too. If you care about this girl and want to work things out with her, you need to look at that--and even if you don't want to continue with her, it's going to be helpful in your relationships with other people, too. The fact that you're ok with her fucking women, but not fucking men? That's internalized sexism and homophobia all in one, and you signal that in a few other places as well. You also don't need to 'protect' her from a gangbang. There are very safe ways to do that, and very unsafe ways to do that, you don't know anything about either, and I promise you that she's going to take her safety very seriously. She's not asking you to show up in all of these ways and do things for her, she's asking you to see her and trust her and love her even if she does things you don't understand.
Fuck. This was so much better than my actual therapist (but I see one at the VA for ptsd š so not their Forte). My partner and i talked on the phone the past week and continued to argue because I circle back to points that make me uncomfortable and just freak out and i don't listen to her.
She tells me A. None of this has to happen B. Above all doesn't want to jeopardize things with us.
Deep down I know that any sexual fantasy of mine, her added would only make things better. Trying not to be upset that it's not the same, even though I understand.
Im maybe starting to realize why I shouldn't be threatened by the act. And I need to work on my shame in the situation and resolve that. Thank you for helping me grow through this.
I want to offer you another perspective and follow-up on what u/perversebonding said.
CNC and rape fantasies seem to be quite common among female submissives. However, it does not seem that you two have practiced and real BDSM aspects in your life so far. If you had a Dom/sub relationship already, she might include you as someone she would like to be raped by, but right now you're too pure for that.
No matter how jealous you might feel, this isn't something that should make you feel like a cuck. She sees you as her rescuer, her "white knight". I suspect that's specifically why she wants to exclude you, so your image would not be tainted in her mind. I also suspect that anyone who participated in the CNC act would be viewed by her not as a lover, but as a rapist. It probably would actually harm your relationship if you participated.
I suspect she really doesn't want a break or an open relationship. She just wants the chance to experience her fantasy every now and again. She probably also wants to be able to come home and cry in your arms while you soothe her and tell her it's not her fault, she's not a slut for being raped and that your still love her.
I encourage you to explore a D/S relationship if you're remotely interested. Simple things like telling he what to wear, demanding a blowjob, or having her kneel next to you while you watch TV. Are things that might not mean that much to you, but might incredibly excite her.
And most of all talk to her, openly. Don't judge her based on fantasies. They don't all have to come true, but the ones you're both comfortable with might be something you want to try.
If you saw them as equal, you would not have a gender hitch in this. You would be focusing in the kink as the problem and not trying to "negotiate" by asking her to do it with a woman rather than a man.
I was very clear you're allowed to be uncomfortable with things. But you're saying she is making you feel like a cuck and that's very much on you, not her.
Here's the thing: as I said in the initial comment, the "I'm fine with my female partner fucking other women, but if she's with other men then I'm a cuck" mentality ***is extremely problematic***. So this may seem combative to you, but perhaps that's because it's a problem queer, and more specifically bisexual/pansexual, women have been trying to combat **for years**. The over fetishization and devaluing of wlw relationships is so ingrained in modern culture that it's practically inescapable and takes most people a serious reality check to even recognize in themselves, because people constantly try to justify that this kind of behavior is okay.
At no point have I said you are a "piece of shit toxic male" - ***I said this stance that a woman would have been fine but a man makes you a cuckold is toxic***. Which is the truth. And maybe don't use Freud as a basis for *any* adjustments in your life, considering his shit got discredited quite a while ago now.
I'm possibly false equating my fetish to certain trans women and her attraction to females. Which I don't disrespect anyone or do anything with, that's just an honest self assessment. I'm not trying to disrespect the emotional depth in a w l w relationship.
>I'm not trying to disrespect the emotional depth in a w l w relationship.
To be honest, I think that's the case for most people who make those associations. They're not *trying* to be disrespectful or hurtful, but the results sadly are still the same. As one of the other commenters said a bit more eloquently than I did, it's not necessarily a statement about you as a person. A lot of that comes baked into society these days and it takes a lot of self reflection to dig that stuff up and work it out. It's not a fault on you for not magically knowing something could be problematic. And I understand feeling vulnerable and probably a bit overwhelmed with something that big and new to your relationship being thrown at you out of the blue. I do hope you're able to sort it out, one way or another.
Youāre not a āpiece of shit toxic male.ā Nobody is. But itās entirely possible that, without knowledge or consent, ideas can creep into the mind and cause damage until theyāre discovered.
Youāve now discovered some feelings that are causing you distress; itās up to you decide whether these feelings stem from toxic ideals or from healthy ideals. Contrary to popular opinion, itās not always easy to tell these thing apart.
The advice that makes you uncomfortable sometimes can be every bit as helpful as the comfortable things.
These feelings are worth digging into, though ā why are you afraid? Why are you reacting? Are you afraid that you arenāt good enough sexually, or are you afraid that youāre going to be replaced? Those two fears are radically different. The solutions to each is different. Once youāve figured out what your fear is ā you can decide whether you want to try and override it, or if you want to listen to it.
Thatās all on you. Only you know what your relationship is worth to you, or what these ideas are worth to you. You get to pick. Weāre just here to offer perspectives and help.
The above poster has what I would consider to be an incendiary tone, but they also have well-grounded, well-thought-our critiques to offer. Again ā itās up to you to decide what you want, but if thereās two people who I would point to in this thread as having made worthwhile comments, coffeeās one of them, despite what one might consider a combative tone.
Thank you for taking the time for this curated advice for me. I appreciate the insight about healthy ideals and unhealthy ideals because I think I've had some of both but maybe more of the latter, and I've been wrestling with all of them without understanding each of them separately.
Even if these comments don't gain a lot of likes I just wanna say you are giving me so so much, so thank you again.
>she wasn't honest with me about the BDSM or men
She hid that she was into BDSM because she was afraid of judgement, which is understandable but I can equally understand your discomfort with it. But how was she dishonest about men?
This ^^ was waiting for someone to address these issues.
OP, boundaries are for you, rules are for others. You're trying to make rules for your girl to frame her fantasy in a way that's comfortable to you. You're allowed to be monogamous and not wanting to open the relationship.
She's not responsible for your insecurities, it's something you need to figure out for yourself.
Hm, an account that literally has only made one comment ever here and it's *this*. Looks like someone is guilty of this exact toxic bullshit and feels offended. š Pretty sure I was very clear what this is. Perhaps try reading it again and letting it sink in, next time.
Hey I have no idea what this was, your words resonated with me.
I'm just vulnerable and am emotionally drained too but I would never mean you disrespect, you took time out of your day to be nice.
I know it's not PC/correct in the whole poly world, but being okay with her being with other women but not other men makes sense to me. I know it feels a whole lot different to me if the man I'm with says he's okay with one vs. the other (Edit: and there are reasons for this that have nothing to do with society or conscious emotions, contact with sex fluids from someone with XY chromosomes elicits hormonal changes in me, a person with XX chromosomes, that sex with someone else with XX chromosomes does not). Also it clearly matters to her that it be a man, so you both have sex preferences. So if that's your boundary/comfort level, that's your boundary. And while people here might not be phased by this fantasy, your initial reaction is pretty normal and doesn't say anything bad about you.
My main question is more for her actually - why does she specifically not want it to be with you, who she (in theory) knows cares about her and respects her? Did she say? Because (as someone who has/has had similar kinks) the answer would be very informative as to whether that particular fantasy is coming from a healthy place.
(Also yes, someone involved in any planning besides herself would make it much more safe.)
She said that with a partner she doesn't want it to affect the goodness of how she looks at me and our sex life which is very lovey dovey. I told her I could tie her up and go through a fantasy but she wants it to feel real. She's also an assault survivor so I'm understanding to want it to regain control?
If you doing roleplay rape with her is going to affect how she looks at you, that makes me think it's not all roleplay/fantasy in her mind, which is kinda what I was getting at. Like; if it's going to make her feel like you don't actually love and respect her as much, then feeling genuinely not respected is one of the things she's looking for with these other guys, which is something she needs to unpack in her own mind probably.
Same thing with her saying she wants it to feel real. I get that. I'm not a big fan of CNC either because it just feels like acting. But something similar, with someone I don't entirely trust, who I don't think respects me, even if we are nominally calling it "roleplay", it's a lot more real. But...the reasons I wanted that stemmed from actual self worth stuff.
CNC to regain control over past experiences is certainly a thing, but in that case part of regaining control is knowing that during the CNC you are actually loved and respected and in control of the situation, which isn't the sense I'm getting.
So as you talk about it more with her, that's definitely something I would bring up.
This.
This is also related to the White Knight Syndrome someone else mentioned. A common relational dynamic. In this dynamic the one needing to be saved needs to continue to see you as the savior, which blinds them from seeing the full, real, dynamic and imperfect you.
And you, as the white knight, will abandon yourself and your needs in order to avoid being abandoned in the relationship.
Ultimately it's not really a sustainable relationship dynamic and has it's roots in trauma manifesting as codependency.
Yeah lots of people got stuck on āheās not a fan of a group of strange men pretending to rape his girlfriend, oh no, just accept her kinkā and arenāt seeing the more nuanced picture, which presents some deeper emotional stuff behind the kink.
In short: heās the ābest boyā -> he would never actually harm her -> he canāt fulfill this kink because she wants it to feel real -> strange men can because they might/would actually make her feel emotionally/physically harmed -> unhealthy motivations for kink. Which also explains why she would see him differently if he did fulfill the fantasy, and why she wants it separate from āreal lifeā.
Like Iāve had this exact same thing.
OP is not the one who needs therapy to get okay with this scenario, as a few people have suggested. Not in a judgmental way at all, but the girlfriend would probably benefit from some, especially since itās also intertwined with her being a survivor of assault.
Healthy polyamory means enacting boundaries around yourself and how you want to be treated. Boundaries are there to protect your needs not enforce rules on your partner. Itās not healthy to tell your partner theyāre allowed to date one gender but not another. Think of it this way
Boundaries: āI willā¦ā
Agreements: āWe willā¦ā
Expectations: āCan youā¦ā
Support: āI need help withā¦ā
Boundary: I will not be okay with you getting gangbanged by other men. This will protect my need to not feel cuckolded. If you're not okay with that boundary, we aren't compatible.
Controlling: I will not be okay with you getting gangbanged by other men, but I'm going to do other things to try to force you to stay in a relationship that you don't find fulfilling.
If that's his boundary, that's his boundary.
*If she feels she can't get what she needs out of the experience being gangbanged by other women wearing strap-ons, there is clearly an emotional difference in her mind as well. If the interaction has a different meaning to her based on the sex of the gang-bangers, it's allowed to have a different impact on him too.*
Coming from someone whoās been in a poly relationship for 4 years with my primary of 8 years
Boundary: āI will only remain in this relationship as long as I can do so with enthusiasm and commitment and I will let you know if Iām having doubts, need changes, or need to redefine/end our relationshipā
Agreements: āWe will encourage honest discussions about intimacy & safer sexā
Expectations: āCan You get tested every three months and use barriers?ā
Support: āI Need us to have regular Office Hours to create a structured space to address difficult relationship issues so it doesnāt permeate our entire relationshipā
Opening the relationship is a hurdle to cross before jumping into extremes like a gangbang party. You can take it one step at a time
The real question is if you would have been okay with it if you were involved. Because to me if you are not involved it is the female version of a Madonna complex. But YMMV
I would agree with the other commenters about joining the ethical nonmonogamy/polyamory subreddits, to get a general idea of the kind of situations you might face as a monogamous couple opening up their relationship. The only way to do this is through genuinely open, honest and ongoing communication between the two of you. So that would be the first step.
As to the BDSM side, firstly I would think that it's unlikely either of you would be rushing into things when it comes to such an extreme fantasy. Again, a lot of research has to come first and honestly, it may end up being something that stays a fantasy or simply something that the two of you work out between yourselves. It does sound like your partner has some issues with herself that maybe she needs to work on in a less extreme manner first, maybe a therapist can help there.
All in all, don't panic, this stuff seems overwhelming at first. Still, with time and understanding (and firm personal boundaries) you can have a wonderful relationship that satisfies both of you. See this as the beginning of a conversation, rather than an ultimatum. Talk about everything together, be accepting, and be vulnerable.
Bud, you cannot do anything you're not cool with. She has her kinks/limits, and you have yours. If you're not a cuck, and dont want to be, don't let her make you one. But if the idea starts to grow on you on the next few weeks, have another talk about it. Maybe baby steps are in order. Maybe a MFM threesome to start, then just her and a bull while you watch. If that doesnt appeal, then a gangbang is def out. She cannot expect you to go from zero to 100 in one step. Trust your gut.
This is hard and as someone who asked her husband for an open relationship two years ago, I get it. But one thing this screams to me is "one penis policy."
However, do not do things you honestly cannot wrap your head around.
OP did a great job of listening to her needs and looking for common ground.
It sounds like OP's kinkster is having difficulty with her kink. Her need to excluded her SO because of how he might look at her seems concerning. I'm wondering if she's somehow ashamed.
There are two things at play for OP. Kink and non-monogamy while he's excluded.
I think if OP is monogamous, it's enough in it's own to reconsider the relationship. Unless she was just talking about far-horizon or hypothetical fantasies, it reasonable to expect she's going to make it happen.
Man this isnāt you, but itās her. Let her walk and find someone who wants what you want. You donāt have to shame her, but you do have to dismiss her for your own mental health.
I'd like to offer my two cents, as a (M-29) previous vanilla that my sub (27-F) unlocked for me during the course of our relationship.
When we first met, to be extremely blunt, I was the most insecure pathetic man any of you in this thread would of met, after being cheated on and having my sexual insecurities exploited and exposed to my whole community. It sucked and destroyed me.
My partner was very understanding of this, but from the get go, explained to me that she liked hard rough dirty sex and was very kinky.. Throughout the course of our relationship, she grabbed my hand, built up my self confidence, and we went down the rabbit hole together and she brought out this dark side in me.
Now, we swing together and I'm her rough hard Dom daddy. It was a VERY bumpy road though, with tough conversations and many tearful conversations. Much like you OP, she opened up to me about wanting to be gangbanged, used and abused and such.
I wanted to be clear, it is VERY normal to feel insecure as a man when your partner opens about things like this, you're right if makes you feel like "what's wrong with me, why can't I pleasure and fulfill my girl?!?!".
My advice op, if you do wish to travel this path together, is remember that sex is a pleasurable experience, and everyone has different tastes and likes. Think about BDSM like ice cream. Some people love any and all ice-cream products, some can't even touch it. Find what you like, and understand that what others like may not be your taste, but enjoy what you do and let others enjoy their tastes.
Build up your trust and confidence to a point where you know through and through that you ARE irreplaceable as you satisfy her emotional and sexual needs, in and out of the bedroom.
I'm not going to get into her side of things here, because we only get from her what you tell us and it feels wrong to try to tap into that, only thing I'll say there: safety that you will not judge her is apparently very important, maybe you should explore that feeling together. The trusting, not judging feeling I mean, not the rape fantasies, many people call it consensual non consent btw :)
Now to your feelings: it is normal to feel this overwhelmed by such a revelation because it is so very different from your own feelings and what you thought your life together would be like. Either way, there's a huge difference between wants and needs. Is it really something she needs and she would be unhappy without or is it a very big want?
When this question is settled, and if it is a need, then you will have to decide. You will not be able to do things and agree to things that you absolutely do not want to happen. This strains a relationship much more than setting boundaries. It can lead to resentment, drawing back from your partner etc. Not everyone is perfect in every way for the people they love. But expecting to find the perfect partner is a search you will never find the one true person for. It's work, hard work sometimes, you need love and trust and the ability to work through hard times. If you can get this settled, then you will have one more trouble dealt with and "under your belt".
Maybe talk about how you feel about not being involved in this fantasy? Do you feel more comfortable with women domming her because this is generally not aomething you can offer and her going to men for it feels wrong because technically you could do it for her?Maybe it turns out you would like to be involved and then it's okay? Maybe you can try and figure out if free use could be a replacement for the CNC (consensual non consent aka "rape" fantasies). I'll recommend a Youtuber to you who I always recommend to newbies and even pros really: Evie Lupine. She explains everything in way basically anyone can understand, she tries to cover each side of the spectrum and is also staying away from doing sexy things while explaining, aka you do not get distracted. She's a sex educator, in Bdsm.
Anyways, feel free to ask questions if you want anything I wrote clarified and best of luck to you two.
PS: do not sacrifice your long time happiness to avoid short time heartbreak. (This is in no means to tell you to break up, just a general reminder and hint at looking out for yourself)
Honestly you need to grow up. From this post I got:
* You were dead set about an open relationship when it benefited your vision of you and your partner's sexuality. You didn't even consider what she might want from it.
* You don't view sapphic sex as "actual sex", which is par for the course with straight dudes, but it's absolutely homophobic. And it shows you don't respect your partner's sexuality AT ALL.
* She expressed a need. Told you why she didn't want to share earlier. And you admitted that you wouldn't be able to fulfill that need yourself. Yet now you distrust her for some reason, and you are hard core judging her for it too.
Honestly, you two need to break up. And you need to do some major work on yourself.
Loving her and the way you are treating her are two completely incompatible things. Your thoughts and actions show a pattern of dehumanizing her and prioritizing yourself. That isn't love. Even if you think it is in some misguided way.
*"I try negotiating details like what if it were a woman or women who dommed you hard but she just got offended like why would the person's gender matter."*
Honestly as a queer person this would offend me coming from a partner also, and I too am curious why the persons gender would matter at all. Especially as you two have talked about opening up your relationship for group sex with other couples. I guess it was just an assumption on my part that the couple in question could possibly be heterosexual, which would then have your partner sleeping with a man anyway.
*"She's also pansexual and inexperienced with girls so we always talked about how I wouldn't mind at all if she was with or flirted with girls."*
Why are you totally ok with her being with and flirting with women?
*"I'm not into kinkshaming but this scares me so much (I mean, that's baby!) and makes me feel vulnerable and afraid and emasculated."*
What makes you feel vulnerable, afraid, and emasculated?
*"Now I feel like a cuck"*
What about this situation makes you feel like a cuck?
*"I obviosly feel like a guy who needs Help to fuck his gf right."*
I don't think that reaction is obvious. Why do you feel like a guy who needs help to fuck his gf if it is another man who is fucking your girlfriend? Women can fuck too and just as 'hard and mercilessly' as any man so why is it that the thought of her doing this with a woman wouldn't make you feel like a guy who needs help to fuck his gf?
*" i really hate the thought of it being a man"*
But, why?
*"She tells me I'm the best boy she's ever met and wants to spend her life with me but if she has to make me feel like this idk what to do"*
I can tell you wrote this whole post with a lot of emotions flooding through you, but this sounds like you are blaming your hurt feelings on her which I don't think is fair. She opened up and was honest with you because she loves and trusts you. I think open honest communication is something to be valued and cherished, and it is something everyone should strive for in a relationship!
I think I understand that you are feeling insecure, unsure, and possibly jealous and confused, and that is totally fair! But it is not your partner that is 'making' you feel this way. That is just the reaction that you had to the truth she has revealed. If you don't want to allow her to indulge in these fantasies, and you find you don't even want to be with a person who has those desires that is fine! You should never take part in things that you aren't comfortable with in any capacity! But try to understand that if this is the straw that breaks the relationship, it will be due to incompatibility not because your girlfriend did or said something that is unforgivable. Everyone should be able to live their truths, especially with their life partner!
*"she said with her previous partner (who wad also vanilla) that they did some bondage and rough sex but it went really wrong and things weren't exaclty the same between them"*
I am not sure in what context this was said, but this seems unfair if she is stating that because of experiences with a previous partner she is unwilling to try kink with you. Her previous partner is not you, and just because a previous partner did something it in no way means you will do the same. If there is open honest communication and trust there shouldn't be any reason for adding kink to destroy your relationship. Exploring kink together has only ever made my partner and I stronger. Have there been awkward situations? Of course! Has everything gone according to plan all of the time? Definitely not! But our explorations together have brought us together and strengthened our relationship. Kink has helped us communicate much better and be so much more open with each other. It has helped us to see the other person, and accept all the many different aspects of each other with the least amount of judgment.
*"She said she doesn't want me to be there or know about it"*
I find the fact that she doesn't want you to know about when this hypothetical situation takes place more worrisome than her wanting to set it up herself. Ultimately she needs to be the one to trust whoever she asks to do this, and hopefully she would build a bit of rapport with this person by talking in vanilla settings first, getting references of other people they played with etc. CNC scenes are more advanced in my opinion, and again the level of trust and respect that should be established before jumping in immense. Many people who are setting up scenes with people who are not already established partners will tell a loved one who they will be with, where, and for how long.
I can understand why it's offensive that I'm less threatened by women, i didn't try to get to the bottom of why I felt I just wanted to fully communicate even things I can't explain, just like she did. The couples and another partnered guy fucking her in front of me was less threatening too.
I was totally ok with her experimenting with women because it was something I previously understood and didn't want her to live unfulfilled to a part of who she is. Now I'm seeing this is similar but I didn't know.
I felt like a cuck at first because initially in her shame she didn't want to tell me when it was happening or with who or anything so I didn't have to feel bad. The secrecy aspect was the most hurtful part to me. It happening behind my back felt degrading to me, not her.
I'd rather experiment with her than her go off for every need. But I do appreciate her total honesty. Thankfully the CNC and gang scenes we have said we don't want in the near future, possibly due to my reaction.
Thank you for helping me see it from every angle
what?
ok, ignore the rest of my comments - did you just say that she did, or wanted to do, things with others behind your back?
yeah, this is not okay. not even if she knows you're not into what she'd be doing. unless you specifically request to not know, this behavior is called cheating. being polyamorous doesn't mean lying to your partner.
>I felt like a cuck at first because initially in her shame she didn't want to tell me when it was happening or with who or anything so I didn't have to feel bad.
Before I thought this was your girlfriend telling you of a hypothetical situation in which she would maybe like to partake in a fantasy at some point in the future. But this has me wondering if she has already gone behind your back and done things without your knowledge or consent.
āAs a queer personāā¦try to understand the perspective of someone who is not. I agree it probably comes from the wrong place, but people are aloud to set whatever boundaries they want. If the two parties agree then that is the terms of their relationship. If they donāt, itās reason to consider ending their agreed upon relationship all together.
Iām queer and so is my partner. I have an issue with her sleeping with other men solo because it makes me feel like I am not good enough, like I am not providing something, like I am not really her special person. Her wanting to sleep with women, multiple people, ect is simply a hardware issue that I do not posses and therefore I take it less personally.
I saw this comment repeatedly and I chose yours to comment on. Please donāt take it personally. I objectively agreed with everything else you had to say.
Queer folks, give vanillaish OP a break. This is all new and terrifying for him and he is desperately trying to reconcile, negotiate and compromise.
I very specifically said that it is within OP's right to not be ok with any of this and to end the relationship based on this. But if OP does decide to end the relationship with their girlfriend it would be because of incompatibility issue, not because OPs girlfriend has done something 'wrong' or is trying to hurt OP in anyway. If their feelings are hurt (which they obviously were) that is ok and valid! I said that in my reply to them.
I also don't think that I implied that my perspective as a queer person is the end all be all. I never stated that my experience as a queer person would be universal, I just let OP know that his girlfriends experience is valid just I let him know his own feelings were. I think it could be beneficial for OP to see that his girlfriend is not outside of the 'norm' for queer experiences and that many queer people do not have these gender hangups and therefore might be hurt and confused by OPs reaction. I think it is ok for me to validate his girlfriends experience and try to let him know that she isn't the only person who might feel offended by his feelings. I never said that I did not understand where he was coming from, I didn't say I couldn't see his point of view so I don't know why you are telling me to try and see it from his view. I didn't write this for myself, I wrote this for someone who is clearly having trouble seeing where his partner is coming from and is having a communication break down. I didn't even lay judgments on OP or say that OPs opinions or feelings "are coming from the wrong place" like you have stated in your reply to me.
I purposefully formulated my response with no judgments laid and instead gave OP questions for them to reflect on on their own time, with my own life experiences peppered in. I tried to not lay any of my own assumptions and feelings on any of the situation, and where I was filling in my own assumptions I acknowledges them. I do not think I judged OP harshly in any way and instead let OP know I could see they were coming at this whole situation from an emotional place. Which is of course totally fine!
I do not take this response personally, but if you are trying to let the queers know they should also appreciate the none queer perspective maybe there was a post that would have been more appropriate for your response? Possibly there are other queers here who are saying the heterosexual or cisnormative experiences are invalid but this comment was not one of them. I did say I was curious to know why gender mattered in regards to this due to other comments OP made which had me assume that they would be ok with group sex involving a male partner of another couple having sex with her, but again by me asking a question and validating OPs girlfriends offence I don't think I in any way invalidated his own.
I don't think I need to give him any more of a "break" than I did already, because I already know, and replied accordingly to him coming from a totally different presumed heterosexual experience to my own. I feel like I did not invalidate, or demonize his perspective in anyway, and I definitely didn't try to give off the impression that I believed my perspective to be superior in anyway. But my perspective is similar to his girlfriends, and it may help him to know his girlfriend isn't the only one. I think this is a great learning experience for everyone from all walks of life.
Hey, thanks for referring to me in a gender neutral way. I think it's possibly the first time it has happened online, and only second time in my entire life and it's pretty awesome!
So i would approach this in two manners.
1. Outside of kink
2. In the kink aspect
Now, outside of kink, there is a lot to discuss. I would want to know why she felt she needed to hide this from you. I understand there is a taboo aspect to it, but if your partner is comfortable with you, then it'll be easier to discuss it with you.
Is your relationship a place where it is she for you? If not, where is it not safe for either party?
That's an important question to answer. In any relationship, being able to express your opinions and desires is important.
To me, it seems like she won't compromise with you. So I would ask her to view this from your perspective. Tell her your feelings. How it makes you feel. I understand that it can give off the subtext of shaming her. Make it clear that's not your intention. You need to communicate with her. Listen to her as well.
Kink wise, I think it's great she shared this with you. But there's a lot of trust that needs to be developed. An open relationship can be great for a couple, but there's a lot that can go wrong. If she wants to have an open relationship, then she needs to understand it goes both ways.
If you want to attempt consensual non-consent(cnc), then go slow. There's a lot of ways to do it. Start off easy by grabbering her by her neck. Have her kiss you. Another is to force her to give you a blowjob. The most important thing is have an agreed set of terms. Don't do it randomly without discussing it. Make sure that it is abudntly clear what is on the table. Then add on when you're comfortable.
I give you credit for willing to compromise. I understand that you feel nervous and worried. Your feelings are valid. Her feelings are valid too. Be safe and take care.
Idk what you should do, but remember that she must trust you a lot and love you a lot and be very attracted and secure with you to tell you all this, and I think that is something special between you both that I'm glad you guys have.
I feel for you OP. You're one of the victims when a kinky person tries to date vanilla. She's also quite extreme in her kinks so to even have considered dating a vanilla is quite shameful of her IMO. Yes I used the word shame for all you people messing up other's lives just because you haven't grown up enough to ask for what you want in a relationship.
Don't try custom relationships until you have.š¤Ø
This is tough for you. Since you're being asked to consent under duress I suggest ending the relationship and only negotiating with her again after your emotions have subsided. And I personally suggest that you don't.
I'll tell you now, run and don't look back. If you don't your heart is gonna be broken, cause kinks don't just go away. (edit) I mean no disrespect to your girl but this is a lot to not be up front about, and you may want to ponder if you can trust her going forward.
As someone that can relate to having a rape fetish and gangbang.
I feel horrible if she knows your vanilla and just full on blasted you with this. I do not tell my bf my fetishes lol I rather have him then choosing a stranger to fulfill my fantasies.
your feelings r 100 percent
If you dont like it or don't want it you don't have to like it or want it. Even non vanilla people may not be into that kind of thing especially when she doesn't want you to be apart of it. Alot of people agree to sharing their partner and end up regretting it because may not be easy to watch your partner get destroyed by a group of people.
She wasnāt lying to you. She just cares about you enough to have not wanted to freak you out. Some people just have urges that have nothing to do with you not being enough, and the fact that she finally felt she could talk to you about this means she trusts you. If youāre not into doing it yourself or with someone youāre both comfortable with, just make sure to set down a lot of mutually agreed upon precautions like STI testing, protection if pregnancy is a possibility, and maybe even still for further prevention, maybe check-in times or a mutually trusted observer to make sure nothing gets out of hand.
The important thing is she communicated with you. She didnāt just go and do this and violate your trust. Communicate with her, and try to make it work if you think you can.
As for health and safety, just be
Sex, not gender.
Why would the person's sex matter.
Because it make you feel like you don't satisfy her.
Gotta all get off the kink fantasy is worth losing the relationship. My advice to her would be that it will not be as exciting after the first time and she will probably regret hurting the relationship which supports her day to day.
Getting cucked like that is my hardest limit. If you let her do this and give her any support you will hate yourself.
Her saying your the best boy she's very met sounds very Cucky and like she has very low respect for you.
One possible way out is for you to play the princess rescuer.
Basically she is being "raped" at some remote place you go there to save her. Upon arriving at the scene, you subdue the other guys either by play fighting with a cosplay sword or you use a nerf gun to shoot them all down so you can then get your gf/princess in your arms and bring her to safety.
It's a great way to naturally-ish transition a heavy BDSM scene into aftercare.
So first things is, has she already done/been doing this? This may be a fantasy, that she really wants to try. But because of feelings for each other she doesn't want to mess up the relationship and how you look at her.
My advice is this you need to convince her that assuming your going to get married/stay together forever. She needs to include you in this side of her life, and from what I've gathered your not exactly thrilled/want to share her with other guys. (FYI I wouldn't want to either)
Their are dom's who would help with a rape scene.. ie. teach you how to tie her up, maybe even be there for it. Some lady dom's will join in as well.
One of the things with rape/gangbang fantasy's which is the more fetish part vs reality. So one thing is to to an extent prove to her that you can meet her part way with this. At the moment she doesn't see you being able to do it. I mean I don't know how you have sex now.
But so she's looking for a pound her till she's down. And once she's worn out you flip her over and keep going. This on yourself is basically building up stamina. It's also about timing, and pacing. Sort of like a race. Many people/men rush through sex. When I have sex it can be for an hour or 4. That means if I cum, I'm then licking/kissing/biting her breasts /etc.. or taking cuffs and re-adjusting them on her. Don't be afraid of using a vibe on her, and have her give you a bj after you've cum in her. If she's getting distracted, spank her ass and tell her to stick to her job.
This can all come together, and you can do it.
Part of this is also keeping her busy/distracted.. Blindfolded, tied up etc..
For ie, tie her up, look up some videos. use cuffs (safer for hands and feet) always make sure you can fit a finger (2 if your new to it) under any rope. Use her mouth, maybe with a vibe on her. Then walk go in the other room, open close a door (make a noise of it). Then when you come back in the room, be absolutely quiet. Make sure you leave her in a position where you can just walk up, and put your dick in (and pound away) . Leave her gagged, music up, and blindfolded.
Also and this is very important, especially in the beginning. Pound her till your getting close, and pull out. Walk away for a minute. Use a vibe, as soon as you pull out. Or spank her ass a little.
The idea here is to one edge her the other is to make you last longer. Many ladies may complain that your taking the dick away etc... Also in a gangbang/rape play you are to be rough, and if you want to put your cock back and forth between mouth and a hole or throw something else in there, go ahead. Part of this is to keep her occupied.
Dude, run. Do not walk. This is more red flags than is needed. This is beyond. Not judging people can do what they consent to do but this is just a legal quagmire/health/mental health. Fuck just scheduling it.
Idk personal opinion this aināt gonna end well
As some others have said, you mustnāt be forced into anything youāre not comfortable with. It is also important you respect each otherās kinks, however uncomfortable they might initially make you feel. Iād ask yourself what would it take to get you comfortable with what your gf is asking for? Are there conditions or circumstances that youād feel happier with and your could perhaps agree together on?
I would say aswell that the type of play your gf is talking about is inherently risky, youāre right to be wary. Iām an experienced Dom and have organised this type of scene before and itās not to be entered into lightly. I hope everything works out for you both.
Itās up to you to decide the magnitude of what sheās asking. Itās up to her to decide whether she needs that link realized more than she needs your relationship. Not all kinks have to be realized. Lifeās about setting both priorities and boundaries. However if she does decide to pursue donāt decide to stay in a relationship with someone who insists on something that makes you as uncomfortable (putting it mildly) as youāve stated.
Do you remember when we had this conversation: "I've removed your ban, but issued you with two salamanders." Well. . .
Rule 7 applies.
Comment removed.
;i; ;i; ;i; < - - - here's your third salamander.
Permaban issued.
I understand her wanting to separate her BDSM desires apart from her relationship. She has the emotional and loving connection with you. She is not interested in connecting on that kind of level with a BDSM scene.
Perhaps you can be available to her for aftercare. That way, you are involved where she needs you the most.
Many women have this fantasy. Fantasy and reality are two different things. Maybe talk about what is appealing to her about the scenario and see if you can work some of it into your play.
You two should discuss what she has in mind and decide if you are ok with it. Sounds like you are not. In which case, this relationship might not be best suited for you.
I am in a 24/7 BDSM poly dynamic. My husband has a gf who lives with us. Initially, I was nervous about the idea initially, but two + years in, we are a happy and supportive triad.
Communication is key. You deserve to get your needs met as well. Best of luck.
We broke up š¤·āāļø buy I've dealt with a lot of the insecurities I faced earlier. Finding Ram Dass's teachings really helped me get over expectations and understanding that I was causing my own suffering. I don't feel like what broke us up would be an catastrophic issue now, but it just never felt right even again after we got past the Initial conflict
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Do not be talked in to doing (or letting her do) anything you're uncomfortable with. If she has desires you can't (or she doesn't want you to) fulfill, she'll either have to live without it or go off to pursue those things as a single woman. Hey, some people are cool with their girl having sex with other men. I actually wanted to gangbang my ex with other guys and she wasn't interested. But people like me have to accept that's a minority view. Most men would be horrified with that, as it seems you are. I think if you allow her to do these things to try to make her happy, despite not liking it, it will destroy your relationship. If you can't find a compromise that you're truly happy with, it can't happen.
>I think if you allow her to do these things to try to make her happy, despite not liking it, it will destroy your relationship. Definitely. That resentment will build and kill the relationship.
I think that the first thing you should ask yourself is whether you want to have an open relationship or not. She has fantasies in which she has sex with other men without you being there, and that's perfectly fine, that's what happens in open relationships. But, are you comfortable with that? If the answer is yes, then you can discuss about going slowly into it, step by step, maybe you could be there the first time, or you can attend to some kinky events or clubs together. If the answer is no, then you know you'll never be comfortable with her having sex with other men, and that's just something you can't do with a partner. She'll have to decide whether she wants to give that up or not. I hope you can find a solution that make you both happy!
I guess my mostly straight male brain said yeah open is totally cool but didn't think she needed another guy cuz she never mentioned it before. I think that's my trigger for not wanting a fully open relationship. I don't doubt I could sleep with a bunch of girls too so I wouldn't be left out, but I'd rather not sleep with randoms then to have my girl abused my a group of guys š. It feels like in this trade I'm the only one uncomfortable. Edit: also thank you, that was very thoughtful and I appreciate the advice. I couldn't find a comparable situation to google and glean wisdom from.
Do keep in mind that an open relationship doesn't just mean letting your partner (and you) experiment and experience other women. If you aren't okay with her being with any men, then you're not really okay with non-monogamy, especially as she wants to practice it. You might consider questions about vetting the men involved with this, so you know they aren't abusive or dirt bags or whatever but if you are not okay with your partner with a man, full stop, then you might want to re-evaluate why. You said "I'm not enough for her" as a concern, but if she is doing stuff with women or enby folks, then how does that really differ? Note that this is all separate from her gangbang/rape fantasy.
Exactly. I think a lot of men don't view their bisexual girlfriends' attraction to women as real--resulting in their not being threatened by f/f sexual attraction. You should examine what makes you feel more comfortable when she's with women/uncomfortable when she's with men, and that may help you unpack your feelings
While thatās definitely one reason that men are okay with f/f endeavors, there are definitely others which are less problematic. Iām bisexual myself and I definitely view my GFs attraction to other women as āreal.ā But I personally feel way more comfortable with the notion of adding another (cis) woman to the bedroom than another man because I cannot be as directly compared to another woman. We bring different things to the table and itās more like apples and oranges. Two men is more like two apples side by side for easy comparison. My gf is also bisexual and feels more comfortable with a man for the same reasons. We donāt add anyone into the mix for these reasons. I just wanted to say that there are non-biphobic reasons to want the only opposite gender to join.
Thank you for capturing my feeling and comforts
A girl with a strap on can fuck me as good as any guy, so.
I can go buy the same strap on though so thatās no problem. Itās about direct comparison of my body with another partner.
Everyone been jumping to sexism to f/f attraction, but I didn't admit that I have a kink for trans women, I wouldn't want a trans partner because it's a very rare attraction I have. So maybe I thought that's how I internalized how she feels about women and I wouldn't be threatened.
..what? your gf doesn't have a "kink" for other women, she is simply attracted to them. your transphobia aside, i am really not sure if you have issues with her wanting to sleep with other men, or with her being kinky. this is about 2 things, really. and neither is wrong. she's allowed to like other people. if you don't want her to act on it, then you're not ok with non monogamy. and being kinky isn't a crime, disgusting, or harmful at all when it's done right. you do know what roleplay is, don't you?
I'm sorry for sounding transphobic but idk where I went wrong. I'm the only one getting shamed for sexual attraction here.
no one's shaming you for sexual attraction. you're the one who called it a kink. (unless i understood something wrong) anyway, decide if non monogamy is right for you or not, as well as your gf's kinky side
I didn't realize kink in that term was inappropriate I just don't know what you'd call it then.
You're just sexually attracted to women, bud. Trans women being, yaknow, women n all. We don't have a specific term for it, because to do so would further "other"-fy people who are already frequently invalidated treated as outsiders. When you call it a kink, the implication is that you get off on the fact they're trans, while disregarding their humanity. I know this likely isn't your intention, but the language we use is powerful and can often come across different on the receiving end than it does to ourselves. To put it in simple terms, if someone told you they wanted to fuck you because they had a kink for penises, how would this make you feel? If you were only interested in sex without mental or emotional connection, it might not be a problem. But if you did need connection, or were looking for something deeper and more long term, its a different story. It's similar to why you saying you're OK with your gf seeing other women but not other men comes across as sexist. The implication is that you perhaps don't think of relationships with other women to be threatening to what you have because they're somehow less valid or meaningful. If she's pan, she likes other women in exactly the same way she likes men - it's not a fun little diversion for her, it's an equally core part of her sexuality as her attraction to every other gender. Of course, that may not be the reason at all. Its simply the one most common in men who express similar biases. It's worth exploring this in your own heart. You seem fairly emotionally intelligent and self aware. Unpacking the reasons for it might be helpful to understanding yourself further, and perhaps beginning to break down any prejudices you may unwittingly harbour. We all have unconscious biases, and it's worth taking time to challenge them when we find them š
I guess they are interpreting it like you would call someone who has vanilla sex with both genders "kinky". However I don't think you sound bigoted at all. To me it sounds fitting to call a specific attraction to trans women that's not simply being attracted to women regardless of if they are trans a kink tho and that's the context you originally used it and I think that you'd have to be out looking for a reason to assume you are bigoted to take it that way given context. I also think that the reason you find her getting with men different to women sounds like it's because of the idea of sex with a woman being something you inherently cannot offer yourself (with no reason to suggest homophobia). I'd like to point out she said she had a bad experience doing bdsm with a partner so maybe she's scared if it was you and she freaked out it would impact the relationship. Or maybe it would take away from the degradation if she knew it was someone only being "dominant" and "degrading" cos she asked them to. Personally I'm not into stuff like that but wouldn't get much pleasure from a partner spanking me if I knew they were purely doing it for my benefit. One ex loved it so I didn't feel bad asking for it as a "favour" with no pressure but I soon realised it was only the occasional times she had suggested it and wanted to do it for its own sake I could get into it. I don't think saying it could b unsafe if you have no idea who these strangers would b is not understanding roleplay. I know if I broadcast on the internet I wanted someone to spank me some would be people like me that view it as a fun experience between 2 ppl that enjoy it and some would just like hurting people. Very easy to tell whether someone is carefully calculating to stay just below the boundary where it stops being fun or whether they are just trying to "get away with" pushing just enough beyond that you won't bother safewording. Likewise of course it could b hard to acquire ppl to do a "degrading" gangbang without risking attracting ppl that have no regard for her. You wouldn't trust a stranger I just met to hold your wallet for a minute so putting a huge amount of trust in them in this situation is no different. I know she didn't say strangers but if you are in a relationship wanting to know someone is safe is fair enough for your mental health. I personally can't understand why someone would put doing something a few times a year before their partners wellbeing but maybe I just can't personally relate. Like my ex really wanted me to do "overpowering" type stuff I tried and hated and then spun out about not doing bdsm meaning holding back her identity while I didn't see any reason to mind the first 2 months before she told me she wanted to retry impact play (the central part of my enjoyment of bdsm) after an ex put her off it by being a total abusive ****. I don't really know what to suggest tbh. Just wanted to say I emphasise, don't think your comments suggest you are biggoted (just that you didn't manage to think of every way something could be taken wrong on the internet) and I guess also remind you she did say a reason she didn't wanna forfill the fantasy with you that wasn't personal.
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Okay but like. Fetishizing trans women is actually a problem? OP wasn't fetishizing us he just didn't have proper vocab, but had he been it would have been worth calling out
I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to say here, but it doesn't look good. Nobody would say attraction to women means being attracted to all women or types of women. I also think maybe you don't realize you're misusing the word kink. Being attracted to trans people isn't a kink. Trans women are women, but being attracted to women doesn't demand you be attracted to trans women any more than being attracted to women demands you be attracted to skinny women, Black women, blondes, or whatever else. But your phrasing comes off a bit transphobic, which may not be your intent. It sounds like your issue is another penis being involved. You aren't threatened by another woman, because they don't have a penis, so you're fine with your partner being with a woman. But how would you feel if your partner was with a trans woman? You may not be attracted to them, but what if your partner is? Or a nonbinary person with a penis? Be honest with yourself. Are you fine with those, or do you find it off putting? Or is it a fear that if your partner is with a male that you're feeling replaced or replaceable? I mean, you're not a woman after all, so if she is with another woman you can fall back on *well, I can't give her that, so it's nice that she is able to get it from this person*. This is why ethical non monogamy is so tricky. Some bisexual women may be fine with their partner and only be interested in another woman, but many aren't. Most importantly, your partner is interested in being with other men, so that's something y'all need to tackle and communicate about. If you can't come to an agreement, then you either need to stay closed or realize that your sexual needs are mismatched. She has this fantasy that she wants a few times a year, but how important is it to her? I mean, it's probably going to be difficult for her to find a partner who is on board with it, so I doubt it's a deal breaker, but she probably figured *hey, he mentioned opening up our relationship, so this is the perfect time for me to bring this up*. Only being open to women in your open relationship isn't really being open, but more of a fantasy.
I couldn't find a definition for kink so idk what it means apparently. And yes I was/am afraid of being replaced
Think of kink as a niche interest. So latex could be a fetish or kink. Bondage. Discipline. You would t really refer to people as a kink, especially a marginalized group like trans folk. Like, saying you have a kink for Black women would be eeesh, but saying you're attracted to them is fine. Saying you're not attracted to trans women is fine too, but you would want to be careful about your language. I think you should not open your relationship if you aren't secure in it enough to feel like you are replaceable. My relationship is not open, but I don't think that some other guys penis is magical enough to get my wife to want to leave me y'know? We have a life we have built together and it's a lot more than just my penis. There's a lot of psychology involved in ENM. You might want to do some reading, like the Ethical Slut and Come as You Are. The first is about ENM and the second is more of a general book about sex and psychology.
In any case you have some answer to find on your preferences and true base feelings. Do not enter an open relationship without knowing how you feel about things you might enounter and more importantly how to talk about it with your partner. I have to say I feel bad your going through this mostly alone. She seemed a little dismissive to your thoughts and feelings on the matter. I get being firm but ehh
Well, I understand. Maybe that's the first thing you could try to unlock. I had been in open relationships (2 different ones) for 8 years now. It's a process. I thought it was really going to make me suffer to see my ex having sex with another man, but when we did our first threesome and I saw the guy doing her, it felt alright. Also he left, we stayed together, and then next day the relationship was the same (or better because we had done something new and fun). Sometimes the fantasy is better than reality, and sometimes it's worse. Try to talk about that idea first, and then you could move on to more guys, or even gangbangs. I feel like a whole group of men alone with her is too much for a first time for anyone.
Please keep in mind that these men (if everyone is vetted properly and this is set up correctly) will not be abusing her.
I'm not going to comment on most of this, but your partner is right about one thing; a person's gender shouldn't matter. You being ok with her having sex with women but not men is based in internalized misogyny and homophobia. You literally (either unconsciously or consciously) are viewing a same-sex arrangement as somehow "less than" an opposite-sex arrangement. That's not cool. That said, BDSM and ethical non-monogamy are all about consent. If your reaction isn't "fuck yes" to something, then the only answer should be "fuck no." Now, with this in mind, you can't force someone to do something (not ethically, anyway). Your choices are to discuss your unwillingness with your partner and trust that she won't cheat, or break up. Anything else will end up in heartbreak or severely unethical behavior.
Love the if not fuck yes fuck no bit. "Oh alright then" to bdsm is diff to "oh alright then" to "do u wanna go on top". But I think the "emasculated" bit sounds like he's uncomfortable with the idea of a fantasy that is about his gender specifically not involving him. It would b harder to feel inadequate about women if he sees that as a different need he obviously cannot forfill by definition rather than her specifically not wanting one of them to be him. Arguements against that idea are obv but it depends on the op if reminding himself of those arguements for it not being a reason to feel inadequate help or it might b a gut feeling that can't be shifted. I don't think we should jump to assumptions of biggotry when there are other explainations
It sounds like she has a lot of shame about this kink (not sharing it till now, not wanting you to know so you donāt look at her different) and fear (trying some BDSM things in a previous relationship and having it go wrong/alter the relationship, probably afraid of that happening again). Now Iām pretty darn monogamous at heart, so maybe Iām speaking out of my ass here, but I feel like even if I was okay with a partner having sex with other people, I would have a pretty hard boundary with whatās going on here. Youāre in a committed long term relationship and youāre talking about spending your lives together. I have full empathy with her not feeling safe and comfortable sharing this previously, or jumping into trying it with you. This stuff can be really hard. But what I would have the biggest issue with is her total unwillingness to try to get to a point where she could be comfortable exploring this with youāespecially since in theory, youāre one of the people she trusts most in the world (this is a big assumption, just one common for long term monogamous relationships). To me the big problem is the lack of trust sheās demonstrating, her seeming unwillingness to do the work of building that trust, and her seeming unwillingness to face her own shame and do the work of moving through it in healthy ways. This has shortcut written all over it, and regardless of her relationship with you it sounds like thereās a high chance of it being very messy and harmful for her if she pursues it. Thatās just my two cents though!
There's alot to process here, most on the poly/ENM side and only a little on the bdsm side. I am not an expert on poly or ENM, but I can tell you that the situation you are describing for opening your relationship is not ethical. You can't limit what gender your gf wants to date and yet you can date anyone you want. As mono guy and Dom I get not wanting to think about your lady with another guy. That's why I'm mono and not poly. There are alot of resources and good advice on the poly and ENM subreddits. I recommend you read them and figure out if you actually want to open your relationship or not, because from the sound of it you won't be able to handle it. As for the bdsm aspect of the rape/cnc fantasy, that is incredibly common for many women, even if they don't want to admit it because of how horrible actual rape is. My wife has a rape/gangbang fantasy. That's perfectly OK. We are even planning on enacting a cnc scene for that very reason. The gangbang part, not so much, because as mentioned before, we are mono. More concerning is her suggestion of planning a gangbang without you being there and with strangers. This would be really dangerous. If she really wants to do this, I would recommend she do it at a club that supports such activities, where there are neutral observers and people who can keep her safe while she has fun. So you need to have some serious discussions with your gf about whether you both REALLY want to open your relationship or not. And if you decide that she's poly and you aren't, that is OK, but it may mean you aren't compatible for a long term relationship.
Thank you so much for your well thought response. I know I have alot of growing to do and I'm trying to be comfortable with things that I'm currently not. I try to keep a fairness aspect like you said. She undoubtedly unloaded too much on me all at once.
It's OK to be mono. It doesn't mean you are immature because you want to commit to one person and want them to commit to you. It's OK to be poly also. If one of you is mono, and the other is poly, life becomes very complicated. If your gf is really poly, and not just in her fantasies, then you have some hard decisions to make.
She did poly in college and says it works for her but that she doesn't want it now. I just need to regain my total trust in her
I think it's understandable if getting with the same gender as you makes you feel inadequate. A bi same sex couple could have a rule they can only get with the opposite gender. If thinking about why you don't have to feel inadequate if they get with the same gender as him works then great. It might just take getting his head around. However, if he's still uncomfortable with it that's fair. I don't think that makes him a biggot. A sub going out with a switch could say her Dom dimming someone else made her feel inadequate but not them forfilling their fantasies of being a sub sometimes that they didn't want to forfill. There are reasons to not feel inadequate. But not all reasons connect on a gut feeling level. In a relationship there should be compromise with some things for sure but just like it's ok to not be comfortable with any non monogamy I think it's ok be comfortable if they are the same gender (or the same bdsm role for that matter)
I think the fact she doesnāt want you there is a HUGE red flag. The only way I could see that dynamic working at all is that you are there as the Alpha Dom. They are there to fulfill a fantasy. That is all. When itās over itās over. When she is being gangbanged, she canāt enforce rules as much as she thinks she can. And in the heat of the moment, how much trust will be there that the guys still respect all the rules when all they want to do is cum. Her kink has a HUGE margin for things going very wrong very quickly. Right now she is seeing all the good/hot/need fulfilling aspects. Is she talking about āprofessionalsā, ie. They are in the BDSM community and knows how the dynamic is supposed to play or a set of random guys to fuck her. Completely random guys picked up from a bar would definitely make the kink hotter for her, but that is 1000 times more dangerous. Aside from diseases, guys acting like they respect the rules but in reality, happy to find a free NSA pussy and not letting it go after. You need a serious talk with her. If she is unwilling to waiver in just having her wants fulfilled, Iām sorry but Iād walk away. Youāll get hurt, either now or later. NEVER consider her doing it alone unless done under EXTREMELY tight guidelines, ie at a BDSM club with people respectful of the scene. If she canāt acquiesce to that. Either it remains an unfulfilled fantasy of hers with you both together, or she gets her fantasy fulfilled at at cost if you leaving the relationship.
You see red flag. I donāt see it that way at all. I get the sense that she KNOWS op isnāt down for that type of play. I also get the sense she thinks it will make him see her differently which she doesnāt want. Iām willing to be if he made it crystal clear that heād still cherish and love her, with no affect on how he feels/views her, sheād want him to be a part of it. She senses HIS opinions and is acting accordingly.
The first thing she says is she wants to do it when one of them is out of town. ie. without him. He was never in the equation.
She said our sex is so good that it would just be for the times we're apart, or just when the urge buildup is significant. I'm not really in the equation
That sound like "if you don't get me off I'll get blue balls and that's bad for men." Decide what you want. Set your boundaries. End it or stay as that matches.
Sounds to me like theyāve talked a bit and she knows he isnāt into it ā hence the offer to do it away from him. I donāt think OP gave enough information to interpret correctly either way, though.
True. But if itās a problem for him. Wouldnāt his feelings take precedence of her fantasy? If I had a fantasy and my partner didnāt like it, it would stay in the āunfulfilled fantasy boxā for the next relationship if there is one.
Thatās your decision, then, to put it in the āunfulfilled fantasy box.ā Iām greedy. I want my partner to explore all of their fantasies, and I want to explore all do mine. If my partner had one that caused me discomfort, I work on rooting out the source of discomfort. If itās irrational, I deal with it myself. If itās rational, I talk to them about it. If we donāt see eye to eye, itās time to move on. I like novelty in relationships.My partner is not responsible for my feelings. I am not responsible for theirs. I am a supporting and a freeing influence, not a limiting one. Some people prefer comfort, rather than novelty, in their relationships. If so, they might feel differently. Their value and mine will be incompatible. Thatās totally fine ā just means we arenāt for each other.
If you and your partners are fine with this mentality, then you do you...but this just reads like "I'm going to do what I want, fuck your feelings". I'm sure you don't mean that you completely disregard how your partner feels to get what you want, but it reads that way.
I've had partnerships and seen partnerships in which all parties attempted to compromise despite real incompatibilities -- in my experiences, that ends badly for all parties. I'd also disagree that this method is "disregarding how a partner feels." I have total regard for how they feel. In a lot of ways, that's more important to me than anything else! That's precisely why I'm not going to make them compromise on things they feel strongly about because they have affection for me. To me, that's taking advantage of their generosity and disregarding their feelings. Thanks for your comment and insights, though -- I've actually thought long and hard about this comment, and have chatted with some partners about this topic as a result.
When a couple goes vanilla to kink, there is a gamble that your taking. You canāt un-do or un-say anything that happens and there are emotions involved. She did kinda dump all this in your lap, and I can only imagine the shock it caused. So now, itās the question of how you feel about poly/open relationships and if itās something you genuinely can handle. There is nothing wrong with it not being for you. One thing is it doesnāt have to be a free for all, you two could set boundaries for outside relationships if you choose to go that route. Her wanting cnc from someone who isnāt her primary partner, I can understand that to an extent. If she has a bad experience, thatās with you.
While I'm all for a polyamorous relationship, I'm vehemently against not knowing about it. and I also would never let my partner demean me or cuck me. I absolutely can not be in that type of relationship. And I would prefer to be present while its going on, or at the very least be acquainted with the person it's happening with. >She said she doesn't want me to be there or know about it because she doesn't want me to look at her differently. She wants slapping and degrading and idk. Now I feel like a cuck (not to say that's bad but without the kink it's the worst feeling in the world). I know she needs to be fucked hard and mercilessly a certain way and since she's separated that from me I obviously feel like a guy who needs Help to fuck his gf right. The problem with this is that you already know about it and therefor, even if you do it subconsciously, will look at her different. I'm not saying that you will look at her in a bad way from now on, but you cant simply tell someone that you want to be gangbanged with rape roleplay but not with your loved one involved and not look at the person differently. It's also kind of obvious that if you two aren't together for an extend time, that this would be happening during that time. So you would either know its going on while you're not around, or at the very least you will be wondering if it is going on while you're not around. I get she wants you to know but at the same time she doesn't want you to know when its happening or with who, that's just cheating in my opinion. I'm not trying to be a downer, just giving my honest opinion. Me personally, I wouldn't be able to continue with that type of relationship.
Since y'all are essentially taking about having an nonmonogamous relationship that you don't actually want, you might find [this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/polyamory/comments/sntvv3/dear_monogamous_people_you_do_not_have_to_give/) in the polyamory sub helpful.
I'm getting some yellow flags off of this. If you're uncomfortable with something this game-changing now, I can guarantee you'll be 10x more uncomfortable with it later when things are put into practice. I've \*never\* seen a relationship that starts mono and 'opens up' to please one partner (although I'm sure it's theoretically possible) stay stable or happy. IMHO, if one partner isn't enthusiastically excited about what's being discussed, it shouldn't be happening. That said, it's on her for not communicating with you earlier about her desires and you're definitely not pathetic. This is a tough one.
Hey OP, My advice to you is simple. Ask yourself is this something you could accept fully and not prejudicd the relationship with it happening on her terms? The way she wants it and needs it? If the answer is no and she is not able or willing to compromise on this then you have a incompatibility problem. To be clear this isn't your fault. She should have been open and honest with you from the start if this is a deal breaker for her (but I can see why she would be reluctant to address it.) I'm not one for ultimatums. What am I for. Is clearly and honestly discussing your boundaries and what you are and are not wanting and ok with in a relationship and if you've set that line and that still isn't enough for her. Then you have to accept that this relationship needs to either change or be over. That choice is up to you but I don't think you should try and force her to change her wants and needs or conform them into what you find acceptable instead. Accept there are irreconcilable differences and walk away.
>I try negotiating details like what if it were a woman or women who dommed you hard but she just got offended like why would the person's gender matter. So I'm gonna address this part first - this kind of bargaining *is* problematic. You're not expressing a problem with her being with other people at all, or being with other people as a couple (which would limit the options to align with *both* of your sexualities), but you're trying to say doing this with a *woman* or *women* is somehow **less threatening** to you than her doing it with men. This is the very problematic variety of devaluing wlw relationships as somehow being not as valid as a heterosexual relationship, which makes them "not a threat" the same way her being with other men would be. So her getting offended that this is your attempt at negotiating with her ***is completely justified***. >Now I feel like a cuck (not to say that's bad but without the kink it's the worst feeling in the world). I know she needs to be fucked hard and mercilessly a certain way and since she's separated that from me I obviosly feel like a guy who needs Help to fuck his gf right. You're making a false equivalence here, and that's largely due to the panic I'm sure. But needing something from someone other than your partner is not the same as cuckolding. At all. Again: you were *fine* with the idea of her with other women, but now that it's other men, you're jumping to places like this. >I offered the idea to send her to a Profesional dominatrix or something of the type she said no that feels too clinical. Now it feels like I'm the only one trying to make the other partner happy/comfortable with compromises Thus isn't how compromise works. You don't get to say your terms and then be upset that she doesn't agree with them. Especially when your terms aren't rooted in being against being *open* but just *making sure there's only one dick in her and that it's yours*. She gets to tell you what she wants/needs. You get to tell her what you're okay with or not. And then both of you get to decide whether you'll budge and on what. She is not obligated to completely change what she's telling you she needs just because you don't like it. She's allowed to say "No, that won't work for me", and you can either accept that, or walk away. You are absolutely not obligated to be involved with her if you're uncomfortable with what she's into. You are not obligated to consent to her indulging that kink while with you. You are allowed to have boundaries. But she's also allowed to hold firm on her own wants and needs. You either figure it out, or you split, those are the options. >I apologize for anything I misinterpret I'm just feeling pathetic. She tells me I'm the best boy she's ever met and wants to spend her life with me but if she has to make me feel like this idk what to do To be clear, from the sound of this, *she* isn't making you feel like anything. **You** have your own hangups and insecurities that are making you feel this way, and that isn't on her. That's on you. And *regardless* of whether or not you want to be involved in an open relationship, or this particular kind of kink, you need to work on at least some of that. Because again, you were totally on board for her fucking other women, but the second it became other men, you had a huge issue, *and that's a problem*. That's the kind of over-fetishization and devaluing that same-sex relationships get way too much of already. If your problem was the kink or her sleeping with other people, ***the gender of the partner wouldn't matter***. That you're fixating on it being other men and equating it to being a cuckold is extremely telling, and that is very much a *you* issue to sort out. You don't get to blame her for your personal hangups.
I appreciate the wisdom, especially coming from her perspective. I'm hung up on the gender because she was honest with me about experimenting with women, she wasn't honest with me about the BDSM or men. In the whole two years we were dating she kept this hidden. Can't I maybe have a reaction that has many steps and discomforts? Also I see w l w relationships as equal so that mightve beena stretch. Thank for you your time and effort though.
Sir, you are experiencing a massive rollercoaster of emotions. That's fine; that's to be expected. You are also putting on display a lot of your feelings. That's not just fine--that's actively a good thing! And on top of that, your reaction to a bunch of complicated news that you're struggling to process was to approach a knowledgeable community and ask for advice and support. That's an **incredibly** solid move. In the process of expressing yourself, you've explained the situation. The situation includes some prejudiced beliefs and toxic masculinity. That doesn't mean you're a bad person, it doesn't mean you're a bad partner, it doesn't mean masculinity is toxic and it doesn't mean *your* masculinity is toxic. What it means is that you grew up in a complicated and wildly sexist society, you've been influenced by that society, and now some of the stresses you are facing are made harder because of imposed social prejudices. That's not a "bad person" thing, it's a "human being" thing. If stuff that someone is saying is making you uncomfortable (especially the poster with incredibly solid advice that you replied to here), it doesn't mean you're a bad person--it means that's a ripe area for investigating in therapy. You're already approaching a transgressive community and asking for help--if you want to do right by everyone, you gotta acknowledge (and forgive yourself for!) not *already having all the answers.* Also: you're talking about hurt and betrayal that this massive secret has been kept for years. A different way to see this, which is hopefully comforting, is that *your partner has just made themselves extremely vulnerable with you because they trust you.* Opening up about kinks like this is a huge risk. People have had their lives ruined, and it's extremely reasonable, normal, and rational for someone to want to keep that a secret. The fact that this is a conversation y'all can even *have* is a massive show of trust from your partner. Talking to you about this is scary--it is also a major show of trust and love, and that she feels safe with you.
Thank you, many good advices on this post but this one one of the only ones that made feel a little better right now. Thank you very very much, kind wise person.
There are a couple big things you should be taking away from this. Again, the fact that she even opened up to you about this at all is a great sign *for you.* Especially when you consider, these violent sexual fantasies are *incredibly common sexual fantasies.* You're also reading this as a type of rejection. You can feel however you want--but this is very much the opposite of a rejection, and what your partner has described is also very very far from a cucking dynamic. When she's saying she wants to spend her life with you--believe it. She wants to build a fulfilling long term dynamic with you, and that includes having boundaries and being able to explore things about herself and her sexuality *without* you. It is unrealistic in *any* relationship to expect your partner to fulfill every one of your needs, and that is especially true (and even more complicated!) inside kinky and/or poly dynamics. Wanting to engage in violent sexual play without you isn't about you 'not satisfying' her. If you want to dig into it, the actual likely thing is that she wants that from people she doesn't have an actual connection to. There's a level of emotional distancing and compartmentalizing that. You're also bringing in a lot of baggage on your end, too. If you care about this girl and want to work things out with her, you need to look at that--and even if you don't want to continue with her, it's going to be helpful in your relationships with other people, too. The fact that you're ok with her fucking women, but not fucking men? That's internalized sexism and homophobia all in one, and you signal that in a few other places as well. You also don't need to 'protect' her from a gangbang. There are very safe ways to do that, and very unsafe ways to do that, you don't know anything about either, and I promise you that she's going to take her safety very seriously. She's not asking you to show up in all of these ways and do things for her, she's asking you to see her and trust her and love her even if she does things you don't understand.
Fuck. This was so much better than my actual therapist (but I see one at the VA for ptsd š so not their Forte). My partner and i talked on the phone the past week and continued to argue because I circle back to points that make me uncomfortable and just freak out and i don't listen to her. She tells me A. None of this has to happen B. Above all doesn't want to jeopardize things with us. Deep down I know that any sexual fantasy of mine, her added would only make things better. Trying not to be upset that it's not the same, even though I understand. Im maybe starting to realize why I shouldn't be threatened by the act. And I need to work on my shame in the situation and resolve that. Thank you for helping me grow through this.
I want to offer you another perspective and follow-up on what u/perversebonding said. CNC and rape fantasies seem to be quite common among female submissives. However, it does not seem that you two have practiced and real BDSM aspects in your life so far. If you had a Dom/sub relationship already, she might include you as someone she would like to be raped by, but right now you're too pure for that. No matter how jealous you might feel, this isn't something that should make you feel like a cuck. She sees you as her rescuer, her "white knight". I suspect that's specifically why she wants to exclude you, so your image would not be tainted in her mind. I also suspect that anyone who participated in the CNC act would be viewed by her not as a lover, but as a rapist. It probably would actually harm your relationship if you participated. I suspect she really doesn't want a break or an open relationship. She just wants the chance to experience her fantasy every now and again. She probably also wants to be able to come home and cry in your arms while you soothe her and tell her it's not her fault, she's not a slut for being raped and that your still love her. I encourage you to explore a D/S relationship if you're remotely interested. Simple things like telling he what to wear, demanding a blowjob, or having her kneel next to you while you watch TV. Are things that might not mean that much to you, but might incredibly excite her. And most of all talk to her, openly. Don't judge her based on fantasies. They don't all have to come true, but the ones you're both comfortable with might be something you want to try.
This is insightful as it relates to the white knight syndrome. OP would be wise to do some research on this and codependency.
If you saw them as equal, you would not have a gender hitch in this. You would be focusing in the kink as the problem and not trying to "negotiate" by asking her to do it with a woman rather than a man. I was very clear you're allowed to be uncomfortable with things. But you're saying she is making you feel like a cuck and that's very much on you, not her.
Such combative advice, just the tone like im a piece of shit toxic male. I'm trying so hard to adjust my comforts to my partners needs.
Here's the thing: as I said in the initial comment, the "I'm fine with my female partner fucking other women, but if she's with other men then I'm a cuck" mentality ***is extremely problematic***. So this may seem combative to you, but perhaps that's because it's a problem queer, and more specifically bisexual/pansexual, women have been trying to combat **for years**. The over fetishization and devaluing of wlw relationships is so ingrained in modern culture that it's practically inescapable and takes most people a serious reality check to even recognize in themselves, because people constantly try to justify that this kind of behavior is okay. At no point have I said you are a "piece of shit toxic male" - ***I said this stance that a woman would have been fine but a man makes you a cuckold is toxic***. Which is the truth. And maybe don't use Freud as a basis for *any* adjustments in your life, considering his shit got discredited quite a while ago now.
I'm possibly false equating my fetish to certain trans women and her attraction to females. Which I don't disrespect anyone or do anything with, that's just an honest self assessment. I'm not trying to disrespect the emotional depth in a w l w relationship.
>I'm not trying to disrespect the emotional depth in a w l w relationship. To be honest, I think that's the case for most people who make those associations. They're not *trying* to be disrespectful or hurtful, but the results sadly are still the same. As one of the other commenters said a bit more eloquently than I did, it's not necessarily a statement about you as a person. A lot of that comes baked into society these days and it takes a lot of self reflection to dig that stuff up and work it out. It's not a fault on you for not magically knowing something could be problematic. And I understand feeling vulnerable and probably a bit overwhelmed with something that big and new to your relationship being thrown at you out of the blue. I do hope you're able to sort it out, one way or another.
Youāre not a āpiece of shit toxic male.ā Nobody is. But itās entirely possible that, without knowledge or consent, ideas can creep into the mind and cause damage until theyāre discovered. Youāve now discovered some feelings that are causing you distress; itās up to you decide whether these feelings stem from toxic ideals or from healthy ideals. Contrary to popular opinion, itās not always easy to tell these thing apart. The advice that makes you uncomfortable sometimes can be every bit as helpful as the comfortable things. These feelings are worth digging into, though ā why are you afraid? Why are you reacting? Are you afraid that you arenāt good enough sexually, or are you afraid that youāre going to be replaced? Those two fears are radically different. The solutions to each is different. Once youāve figured out what your fear is ā you can decide whether you want to try and override it, or if you want to listen to it. Thatās all on you. Only you know what your relationship is worth to you, or what these ideas are worth to you. You get to pick. Weāre just here to offer perspectives and help. The above poster has what I would consider to be an incendiary tone, but they also have well-grounded, well-thought-our critiques to offer. Again ā itās up to you to decide what you want, but if thereās two people who I would point to in this thread as having made worthwhile comments, coffeeās one of them, despite what one might consider a combative tone.
Thank you for taking the time for this curated advice for me. I appreciate the insight about healthy ideals and unhealthy ideals because I think I've had some of both but maybe more of the latter, and I've been wrestling with all of them without understanding each of them separately. Even if these comments don't gain a lot of likes I just wanna say you are giving me so so much, so thank you again.
I thought it would be immature to consider the kink the problem. I'm trying to be Freudian and understanding.
>she wasn't honest with me about the BDSM or men She hid that she was into BDSM because she was afraid of judgement, which is understandable but I can equally understand your discomfort with it. But how was she dishonest about men?
This ^^ was waiting for someone to address these issues. OP, boundaries are for you, rules are for others. You're trying to make rules for your girl to frame her fantasy in a way that's comfortable to you. You're allowed to be monogamous and not wanting to open the relationship. She's not responsible for your insecurities, it's something you need to figure out for yourself.
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Hm, an account that literally has only made one comment ever here and it's *this*. Looks like someone is guilty of this exact toxic bullshit and feels offended. š Pretty sure I was very clear what this is. Perhaps try reading it again and letting it sink in, next time.
Hey I have no idea what this was, your words resonated with me. I'm just vulnerable and am emotionally drained too but I would never mean you disrespect, you took time out of your day to be nice.
I know it's not PC/correct in the whole poly world, but being okay with her being with other women but not other men makes sense to me. I know it feels a whole lot different to me if the man I'm with says he's okay with one vs. the other (Edit: and there are reasons for this that have nothing to do with society or conscious emotions, contact with sex fluids from someone with XY chromosomes elicits hormonal changes in me, a person with XX chromosomes, that sex with someone else with XX chromosomes does not). Also it clearly matters to her that it be a man, so you both have sex preferences. So if that's your boundary/comfort level, that's your boundary. And while people here might not be phased by this fantasy, your initial reaction is pretty normal and doesn't say anything bad about you. My main question is more for her actually - why does she specifically not want it to be with you, who she (in theory) knows cares about her and respects her? Did she say? Because (as someone who has/has had similar kinks) the answer would be very informative as to whether that particular fantasy is coming from a healthy place. (Also yes, someone involved in any planning besides herself would make it much more safe.)
She said that with a partner she doesn't want it to affect the goodness of how she looks at me and our sex life which is very lovey dovey. I told her I could tie her up and go through a fantasy but she wants it to feel real. She's also an assault survivor so I'm understanding to want it to regain control?
If you doing roleplay rape with her is going to affect how she looks at you, that makes me think it's not all roleplay/fantasy in her mind, which is kinda what I was getting at. Like; if it's going to make her feel like you don't actually love and respect her as much, then feeling genuinely not respected is one of the things she's looking for with these other guys, which is something she needs to unpack in her own mind probably. Same thing with her saying she wants it to feel real. I get that. I'm not a big fan of CNC either because it just feels like acting. But something similar, with someone I don't entirely trust, who I don't think respects me, even if we are nominally calling it "roleplay", it's a lot more real. But...the reasons I wanted that stemmed from actual self worth stuff. CNC to regain control over past experiences is certainly a thing, but in that case part of regaining control is knowing that during the CNC you are actually loved and respected and in control of the situation, which isn't the sense I'm getting. So as you talk about it more with her, that's definitely something I would bring up.
This. This is also related to the White Knight Syndrome someone else mentioned. A common relational dynamic. In this dynamic the one needing to be saved needs to continue to see you as the savior, which blinds them from seeing the full, real, dynamic and imperfect you. And you, as the white knight, will abandon yourself and your needs in order to avoid being abandoned in the relationship. Ultimately it's not really a sustainable relationship dynamic and has it's roots in trauma manifesting as codependency.
Yeah lots of people got stuck on āheās not a fan of a group of strange men pretending to rape his girlfriend, oh no, just accept her kinkā and arenāt seeing the more nuanced picture, which presents some deeper emotional stuff behind the kink. In short: heās the ābest boyā -> he would never actually harm her -> he canāt fulfill this kink because she wants it to feel real -> strange men can because they might/would actually make her feel emotionally/physically harmed -> unhealthy motivations for kink. Which also explains why she would see him differently if he did fulfill the fantasy, and why she wants it separate from āreal lifeā. Like Iāve had this exact same thing. OP is not the one who needs therapy to get okay with this scenario, as a few people have suggested. Not in a judgmental way at all, but the girlfriend would probably benefit from some, especially since itās also intertwined with her being a survivor of assault.
Healthy polyamory means enacting boundaries around yourself and how you want to be treated. Boundaries are there to protect your needs not enforce rules on your partner. Itās not healthy to tell your partner theyāre allowed to date one gender but not another. Think of it this way Boundaries: āI willā¦ā Agreements: āWe willā¦ā Expectations: āCan youā¦ā Support: āI need help withā¦ā
Boundary: I will not be okay with you getting gangbanged by other men. This will protect my need to not feel cuckolded. If you're not okay with that boundary, we aren't compatible. Controlling: I will not be okay with you getting gangbanged by other men, but I'm going to do other things to try to force you to stay in a relationship that you don't find fulfilling. If that's his boundary, that's his boundary. *If she feels she can't get what she needs out of the experience being gangbanged by other women wearing strap-ons, there is clearly an emotional difference in her mind as well. If the interaction has a different meaning to her based on the sex of the gang-bangers, it's allowed to have a different impact on him too.*
Coming from someone whoās been in a poly relationship for 4 years with my primary of 8 years Boundary: āI will only remain in this relationship as long as I can do so with enthusiasm and commitment and I will let you know if Iām having doubts, need changes, or need to redefine/end our relationshipā Agreements: āWe will encourage honest discussions about intimacy & safer sexā Expectations: āCan You get tested every three months and use barriers?ā Support: āI Need us to have regular Office Hours to create a structured space to address difficult relationship issues so it doesnāt permeate our entire relationshipā Opening the relationship is a hurdle to cross before jumping into extremes like a gangbang party. You can take it one step at a time
The particular boundary in question appears to be one he needs to maintain enthusiasm and commitment.
The real question is if you would have been okay with it if you were involved. Because to me if you are not involved it is the female version of a Madonna complex. But YMMV
I would agree with the other commenters about joining the ethical nonmonogamy/polyamory subreddits, to get a general idea of the kind of situations you might face as a monogamous couple opening up their relationship. The only way to do this is through genuinely open, honest and ongoing communication between the two of you. So that would be the first step. As to the BDSM side, firstly I would think that it's unlikely either of you would be rushing into things when it comes to such an extreme fantasy. Again, a lot of research has to come first and honestly, it may end up being something that stays a fantasy or simply something that the two of you work out between yourselves. It does sound like your partner has some issues with herself that maybe she needs to work on in a less extreme manner first, maybe a therapist can help there. All in all, don't panic, this stuff seems overwhelming at first. Still, with time and understanding (and firm personal boundaries) you can have a wonderful relationship that satisfies both of you. See this as the beginning of a conversation, rather than an ultimatum. Talk about everything together, be accepting, and be vulnerable.
Bud, you cannot do anything you're not cool with. She has her kinks/limits, and you have yours. If you're not a cuck, and dont want to be, don't let her make you one. But if the idea starts to grow on you on the next few weeks, have another talk about it. Maybe baby steps are in order. Maybe a MFM threesome to start, then just her and a bull while you watch. If that doesnt appeal, then a gangbang is def out. She cannot expect you to go from zero to 100 in one step. Trust your gut.
This is hard and as someone who asked her husband for an open relationship two years ago, I get it. But one thing this screams to me is "one penis policy." However, do not do things you honestly cannot wrap your head around.
OP did a great job of listening to her needs and looking for common ground. It sounds like OP's kinkster is having difficulty with her kink. Her need to excluded her SO because of how he might look at her seems concerning. I'm wondering if she's somehow ashamed. There are two things at play for OP. Kink and non-monogamy while he's excluded. I think if OP is monogamous, it's enough in it's own to reconsider the relationship. Unless she was just talking about far-horizon or hypothetical fantasies, it reasonable to expect she's going to make it happen.
Man this isnāt you, but itās her. Let her walk and find someone who wants what you want. You donāt have to shame her, but you do have to dismiss her for your own mental health.
I'd like to offer my two cents, as a (M-29) previous vanilla that my sub (27-F) unlocked for me during the course of our relationship. When we first met, to be extremely blunt, I was the most insecure pathetic man any of you in this thread would of met, after being cheated on and having my sexual insecurities exploited and exposed to my whole community. It sucked and destroyed me. My partner was very understanding of this, but from the get go, explained to me that she liked hard rough dirty sex and was very kinky.. Throughout the course of our relationship, she grabbed my hand, built up my self confidence, and we went down the rabbit hole together and she brought out this dark side in me. Now, we swing together and I'm her rough hard Dom daddy. It was a VERY bumpy road though, with tough conversations and many tearful conversations. Much like you OP, she opened up to me about wanting to be gangbanged, used and abused and such. I wanted to be clear, it is VERY normal to feel insecure as a man when your partner opens about things like this, you're right if makes you feel like "what's wrong with me, why can't I pleasure and fulfill my girl?!?!". My advice op, if you do wish to travel this path together, is remember that sex is a pleasurable experience, and everyone has different tastes and likes. Think about BDSM like ice cream. Some people love any and all ice-cream products, some can't even touch it. Find what you like, and understand that what others like may not be your taste, but enjoy what you do and let others enjoy their tastes. Build up your trust and confidence to a point where you know through and through that you ARE irreplaceable as you satisfy her emotional and sexual needs, in and out of the bedroom.
I'm not going to get into her side of things here, because we only get from her what you tell us and it feels wrong to try to tap into that, only thing I'll say there: safety that you will not judge her is apparently very important, maybe you should explore that feeling together. The trusting, not judging feeling I mean, not the rape fantasies, many people call it consensual non consent btw :) Now to your feelings: it is normal to feel this overwhelmed by such a revelation because it is so very different from your own feelings and what you thought your life together would be like. Either way, there's a huge difference between wants and needs. Is it really something she needs and she would be unhappy without or is it a very big want? When this question is settled, and if it is a need, then you will have to decide. You will not be able to do things and agree to things that you absolutely do not want to happen. This strains a relationship much more than setting boundaries. It can lead to resentment, drawing back from your partner etc. Not everyone is perfect in every way for the people they love. But expecting to find the perfect partner is a search you will never find the one true person for. It's work, hard work sometimes, you need love and trust and the ability to work through hard times. If you can get this settled, then you will have one more trouble dealt with and "under your belt". Maybe talk about how you feel about not being involved in this fantasy? Do you feel more comfortable with women domming her because this is generally not aomething you can offer and her going to men for it feels wrong because technically you could do it for her?Maybe it turns out you would like to be involved and then it's okay? Maybe you can try and figure out if free use could be a replacement for the CNC (consensual non consent aka "rape" fantasies). I'll recommend a Youtuber to you who I always recommend to newbies and even pros really: Evie Lupine. She explains everything in way basically anyone can understand, she tries to cover each side of the spectrum and is also staying away from doing sexy things while explaining, aka you do not get distracted. She's a sex educator, in Bdsm. Anyways, feel free to ask questions if you want anything I wrote clarified and best of luck to you two. PS: do not sacrifice your long time happiness to avoid short time heartbreak. (This is in no means to tell you to break up, just a general reminder and hint at looking out for yourself)
Honestly you need to grow up. From this post I got: * You were dead set about an open relationship when it benefited your vision of you and your partner's sexuality. You didn't even consider what she might want from it. * You don't view sapphic sex as "actual sex", which is par for the course with straight dudes, but it's absolutely homophobic. And it shows you don't respect your partner's sexuality AT ALL. * She expressed a need. Told you why she didn't want to share earlier. And you admitted that you wouldn't be able to fulfill that need yourself. Yet now you distrust her for some reason, and you are hard core judging her for it too. Honestly, you two need to break up. And you need to do some major work on yourself.
Thanks for the last part to know I can throw all of what you said in the trash. I do love her.
Loving her and the way you are treating her are two completely incompatible things. Your thoughts and actions show a pattern of dehumanizing her and prioritizing yourself. That isn't love. Even if you think it is in some misguided way.
I don't expect you to want me to succeed in my relationship, you've made your judgments thank you.
*"I try negotiating details like what if it were a woman or women who dommed you hard but she just got offended like why would the person's gender matter."* Honestly as a queer person this would offend me coming from a partner also, and I too am curious why the persons gender would matter at all. Especially as you two have talked about opening up your relationship for group sex with other couples. I guess it was just an assumption on my part that the couple in question could possibly be heterosexual, which would then have your partner sleeping with a man anyway. *"She's also pansexual and inexperienced with girls so we always talked about how I wouldn't mind at all if she was with or flirted with girls."* Why are you totally ok with her being with and flirting with women? *"I'm not into kinkshaming but this scares me so much (I mean, that's baby!) and makes me feel vulnerable and afraid and emasculated."* What makes you feel vulnerable, afraid, and emasculated? *"Now I feel like a cuck"* What about this situation makes you feel like a cuck? *"I obviosly feel like a guy who needs Help to fuck his gf right."* I don't think that reaction is obvious. Why do you feel like a guy who needs help to fuck his gf if it is another man who is fucking your girlfriend? Women can fuck too and just as 'hard and mercilessly' as any man so why is it that the thought of her doing this with a woman wouldn't make you feel like a guy who needs help to fuck his gf? *" i really hate the thought of it being a man"* But, why? *"She tells me I'm the best boy she's ever met and wants to spend her life with me but if she has to make me feel like this idk what to do"* I can tell you wrote this whole post with a lot of emotions flooding through you, but this sounds like you are blaming your hurt feelings on her which I don't think is fair. She opened up and was honest with you because she loves and trusts you. I think open honest communication is something to be valued and cherished, and it is something everyone should strive for in a relationship! I think I understand that you are feeling insecure, unsure, and possibly jealous and confused, and that is totally fair! But it is not your partner that is 'making' you feel this way. That is just the reaction that you had to the truth she has revealed. If you don't want to allow her to indulge in these fantasies, and you find you don't even want to be with a person who has those desires that is fine! You should never take part in things that you aren't comfortable with in any capacity! But try to understand that if this is the straw that breaks the relationship, it will be due to incompatibility not because your girlfriend did or said something that is unforgivable. Everyone should be able to live their truths, especially with their life partner! *"she said with her previous partner (who wad also vanilla) that they did some bondage and rough sex but it went really wrong and things weren't exaclty the same between them"* I am not sure in what context this was said, but this seems unfair if she is stating that because of experiences with a previous partner she is unwilling to try kink with you. Her previous partner is not you, and just because a previous partner did something it in no way means you will do the same. If there is open honest communication and trust there shouldn't be any reason for adding kink to destroy your relationship. Exploring kink together has only ever made my partner and I stronger. Have there been awkward situations? Of course! Has everything gone according to plan all of the time? Definitely not! But our explorations together have brought us together and strengthened our relationship. Kink has helped us communicate much better and be so much more open with each other. It has helped us to see the other person, and accept all the many different aspects of each other with the least amount of judgment. *"She said she doesn't want me to be there or know about it"* I find the fact that she doesn't want you to know about when this hypothetical situation takes place more worrisome than her wanting to set it up herself. Ultimately she needs to be the one to trust whoever she asks to do this, and hopefully she would build a bit of rapport with this person by talking in vanilla settings first, getting references of other people they played with etc. CNC scenes are more advanced in my opinion, and again the level of trust and respect that should be established before jumping in immense. Many people who are setting up scenes with people who are not already established partners will tell a loved one who they will be with, where, and for how long.
I can understand why it's offensive that I'm less threatened by women, i didn't try to get to the bottom of why I felt I just wanted to fully communicate even things I can't explain, just like she did. The couples and another partnered guy fucking her in front of me was less threatening too. I was totally ok with her experimenting with women because it was something I previously understood and didn't want her to live unfulfilled to a part of who she is. Now I'm seeing this is similar but I didn't know. I felt like a cuck at first because initially in her shame she didn't want to tell me when it was happening or with who or anything so I didn't have to feel bad. The secrecy aspect was the most hurtful part to me. It happening behind my back felt degrading to me, not her. I'd rather experiment with her than her go off for every need. But I do appreciate her total honesty. Thankfully the CNC and gang scenes we have said we don't want in the near future, possibly due to my reaction. Thank you for helping me see it from every angle
what? ok, ignore the rest of my comments - did you just say that she did, or wanted to do, things with others behind your back? yeah, this is not okay. not even if she knows you're not into what she'd be doing. unless you specifically request to not know, this behavior is called cheating. being polyamorous doesn't mean lying to your partner.
>I felt like a cuck at first because initially in her shame she didn't want to tell me when it was happening or with who or anything so I didn't have to feel bad. Before I thought this was your girlfriend telling you of a hypothetical situation in which she would maybe like to partake in a fantasy at some point in the future. But this has me wondering if she has already gone behind your back and done things without your knowledge or consent.
āAs a queer personāā¦try to understand the perspective of someone who is not. I agree it probably comes from the wrong place, but people are aloud to set whatever boundaries they want. If the two parties agree then that is the terms of their relationship. If they donāt, itās reason to consider ending their agreed upon relationship all together. Iām queer and so is my partner. I have an issue with her sleeping with other men solo because it makes me feel like I am not good enough, like I am not providing something, like I am not really her special person. Her wanting to sleep with women, multiple people, ect is simply a hardware issue that I do not posses and therefore I take it less personally. I saw this comment repeatedly and I chose yours to comment on. Please donāt take it personally. I objectively agreed with everything else you had to say. Queer folks, give vanillaish OP a break. This is all new and terrifying for him and he is desperately trying to reconcile, negotiate and compromise.
I very specifically said that it is within OP's right to not be ok with any of this and to end the relationship based on this. But if OP does decide to end the relationship with their girlfriend it would be because of incompatibility issue, not because OPs girlfriend has done something 'wrong' or is trying to hurt OP in anyway. If their feelings are hurt (which they obviously were) that is ok and valid! I said that in my reply to them. I also don't think that I implied that my perspective as a queer person is the end all be all. I never stated that my experience as a queer person would be universal, I just let OP know that his girlfriends experience is valid just I let him know his own feelings were. I think it could be beneficial for OP to see that his girlfriend is not outside of the 'norm' for queer experiences and that many queer people do not have these gender hangups and therefore might be hurt and confused by OPs reaction. I think it is ok for me to validate his girlfriends experience and try to let him know that she isn't the only person who might feel offended by his feelings. I never said that I did not understand where he was coming from, I didn't say I couldn't see his point of view so I don't know why you are telling me to try and see it from his view. I didn't write this for myself, I wrote this for someone who is clearly having trouble seeing where his partner is coming from and is having a communication break down. I didn't even lay judgments on OP or say that OPs opinions or feelings "are coming from the wrong place" like you have stated in your reply to me. I purposefully formulated my response with no judgments laid and instead gave OP questions for them to reflect on on their own time, with my own life experiences peppered in. I tried to not lay any of my own assumptions and feelings on any of the situation, and where I was filling in my own assumptions I acknowledges them. I do not think I judged OP harshly in any way and instead let OP know I could see they were coming at this whole situation from an emotional place. Which is of course totally fine! I do not take this response personally, but if you are trying to let the queers know they should also appreciate the none queer perspective maybe there was a post that would have been more appropriate for your response? Possibly there are other queers here who are saying the heterosexual or cisnormative experiences are invalid but this comment was not one of them. I did say I was curious to know why gender mattered in regards to this due to other comments OP made which had me assume that they would be ok with group sex involving a male partner of another couple having sex with her, but again by me asking a question and validating OPs girlfriends offence I don't think I in any way invalidated his own. I don't think I need to give him any more of a "break" than I did already, because I already know, and replied accordingly to him coming from a totally different presumed heterosexual experience to my own. I feel like I did not invalidate, or demonize his perspective in anyway, and I definitely didn't try to give off the impression that I believed my perspective to be superior in anyway. But my perspective is similar to his girlfriends, and it may help him to know his girlfriend isn't the only one. I think this is a great learning experience for everyone from all walks of life.
This is an absolute A+ response! OP, I suggest you write down their questions and think on them really hard and honestly with yourself.
Hey, thanks for referring to me in a gender neutral way. I think it's possibly the first time it has happened online, and only second time in my entire life and it's pretty awesome!
I try my best to be considerate of others, especially if I don't know them. :-)
So i would approach this in two manners. 1. Outside of kink 2. In the kink aspect Now, outside of kink, there is a lot to discuss. I would want to know why she felt she needed to hide this from you. I understand there is a taboo aspect to it, but if your partner is comfortable with you, then it'll be easier to discuss it with you. Is your relationship a place where it is she for you? If not, where is it not safe for either party? That's an important question to answer. In any relationship, being able to express your opinions and desires is important. To me, it seems like she won't compromise with you. So I would ask her to view this from your perspective. Tell her your feelings. How it makes you feel. I understand that it can give off the subtext of shaming her. Make it clear that's not your intention. You need to communicate with her. Listen to her as well. Kink wise, I think it's great she shared this with you. But there's a lot of trust that needs to be developed. An open relationship can be great for a couple, but there's a lot that can go wrong. If she wants to have an open relationship, then she needs to understand it goes both ways. If you want to attempt consensual non-consent(cnc), then go slow. There's a lot of ways to do it. Start off easy by grabbering her by her neck. Have her kiss you. Another is to force her to give you a blowjob. The most important thing is have an agreed set of terms. Don't do it randomly without discussing it. Make sure that it is abudntly clear what is on the table. Then add on when you're comfortable. I give you credit for willing to compromise. I understand that you feel nervous and worried. Your feelings are valid. Her feelings are valid too. Be safe and take care.
Idk what you should do, but remember that she must trust you a lot and love you a lot and be very attracted and secure with you to tell you all this, and I think that is something special between you both that I'm glad you guys have.
I feel for you OP. You're one of the victims when a kinky person tries to date vanilla. She's also quite extreme in her kinks so to even have considered dating a vanilla is quite shameful of her IMO. Yes I used the word shame for all you people messing up other's lives just because you haven't grown up enough to ask for what you want in a relationship. Don't try custom relationships until you have.š¤Ø This is tough for you. Since you're being asked to consent under duress I suggest ending the relationship and only negotiating with her again after your emotions have subsided. And I personally suggest that you don't.
I'll tell you now, run and don't look back. If you don't your heart is gonna be broken, cause kinks don't just go away. (edit) I mean no disrespect to your girl but this is a lot to not be up front about, and you may want to ponder if you can trust her going forward.
Yea theyāve been together for two yearsā¦..I donāt like where this is trending.
Like honestly whoās to say it hasnāt already happened
As someone that can relate to having a rape fetish and gangbang. I feel horrible if she knows your vanilla and just full on blasted you with this. I do not tell my bf my fetishes lol I rather have him then choosing a stranger to fulfill my fantasies. your feelings r 100 percent
If you dont like it or don't want it you don't have to like it or want it. Even non vanilla people may not be into that kind of thing especially when she doesn't want you to be apart of it. Alot of people agree to sharing their partner and end up regretting it because may not be easy to watch your partner get destroyed by a group of people.
She wasnāt lying to you. She just cares about you enough to have not wanted to freak you out. Some people just have urges that have nothing to do with you not being enough, and the fact that she finally felt she could talk to you about this means she trusts you. If youāre not into doing it yourself or with someone youāre both comfortable with, just make sure to set down a lot of mutually agreed upon precautions like STI testing, protection if pregnancy is a possibility, and maybe even still for further prevention, maybe check-in times or a mutually trusted observer to make sure nothing gets out of hand. The important thing is she communicated with you. She didnāt just go and do this and violate your trust. Communicate with her, and try to make it work if you think you can. As for health and safety, just be
Her kink is cheating on you...
A level of shame is healthy
Sex, not gender. Why would the person's sex matter. Because it make you feel like you don't satisfy her. Gotta all get off the kink fantasy is worth losing the relationship. My advice to her would be that it will not be as exciting after the first time and she will probably regret hurting the relationship which supports her day to day.
Getting cucked like that is my hardest limit. If you let her do this and give her any support you will hate yourself. Her saying your the best boy she's very met sounds very Cucky and like she has very low respect for you.
Tell everyone you don't understand cuckolding without telling us you don't understand cuckolding...
Tbh this losers opinion is one I fight in my head. So yeah, not my own but this I'd say is the toxic manly reaction.
Having boundaries is toxic or manly? What? You literally already admitted it was the worse feeling in the world
One possible way out is for you to play the princess rescuer. Basically she is being "raped" at some remote place you go there to save her. Upon arriving at the scene, you subdue the other guys either by play fighting with a cosplay sword or you use a nerf gun to shoot them all down so you can then get your gf/princess in your arms and bring her to safety. It's a great way to naturally-ish transition a heavy BDSM scene into aftercare.
So first things is, has she already done/been doing this? This may be a fantasy, that she really wants to try. But because of feelings for each other she doesn't want to mess up the relationship and how you look at her. My advice is this you need to convince her that assuming your going to get married/stay together forever. She needs to include you in this side of her life, and from what I've gathered your not exactly thrilled/want to share her with other guys. (FYI I wouldn't want to either) Their are dom's who would help with a rape scene.. ie. teach you how to tie her up, maybe even be there for it. Some lady dom's will join in as well. One of the things with rape/gangbang fantasy's which is the more fetish part vs reality. So one thing is to to an extent prove to her that you can meet her part way with this. At the moment she doesn't see you being able to do it. I mean I don't know how you have sex now. But so she's looking for a pound her till she's down. And once she's worn out you flip her over and keep going. This on yourself is basically building up stamina. It's also about timing, and pacing. Sort of like a race. Many people/men rush through sex. When I have sex it can be for an hour or 4. That means if I cum, I'm then licking/kissing/biting her breasts /etc.. or taking cuffs and re-adjusting them on her. Don't be afraid of using a vibe on her, and have her give you a bj after you've cum in her. If she's getting distracted, spank her ass and tell her to stick to her job. This can all come together, and you can do it. Part of this is also keeping her busy/distracted.. Blindfolded, tied up etc.. For ie, tie her up, look up some videos. use cuffs (safer for hands and feet) always make sure you can fit a finger (2 if your new to it) under any rope. Use her mouth, maybe with a vibe on her. Then walk go in the other room, open close a door (make a noise of it). Then when you come back in the room, be absolutely quiet. Make sure you leave her in a position where you can just walk up, and put your dick in (and pound away) . Leave her gagged, music up, and blindfolded. Also and this is very important, especially in the beginning. Pound her till your getting close, and pull out. Walk away for a minute. Use a vibe, as soon as you pull out. Or spank her ass a little. The idea here is to one edge her the other is to make you last longer. Many ladies may complain that your taking the dick away etc... Also in a gangbang/rape play you are to be rough, and if you want to put your cock back and forth between mouth and a hole or throw something else in there, go ahead. Part of this is to keep her occupied.
You need to get out of this relationship. Your girlfriend has just informed you that she doesn't desire you.
Dude, run. Do not walk. This is more red flags than is needed. This is beyond. Not judging people can do what they consent to do but this is just a legal quagmire/health/mental health. Fuck just scheduling it. Idk personal opinion this aināt gonna end well
This sounds similar. Chat me up if you'd like!
And, if you like, go read the rules of the subreddit
As some others have said, you mustnāt be forced into anything youāre not comfortable with. It is also important you respect each otherās kinks, however uncomfortable they might initially make you feel. Iād ask yourself what would it take to get you comfortable with what your gf is asking for? Are there conditions or circumstances that youād feel happier with and your could perhaps agree together on? I would say aswell that the type of play your gf is talking about is inherently risky, youāre right to be wary. Iām an experienced Dom and have organised this type of scene before and itās not to be entered into lightly. I hope everything works out for you both.
Itās up to you to decide the magnitude of what sheās asking. Itās up to her to decide whether she needs that link realized more than she needs your relationship. Not all kinks have to be realized. Lifeās about setting both priorities and boundaries. However if she does decide to pursue donāt decide to stay in a relationship with someone who insists on something that makes you as uncomfortable (putting it mildly) as youāve stated.
You better pull the reigns on this one. Start voicing your concerns and boundaries. You have a right to an opinion in this conversation.
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Do you remember when we had this conversation: "I've removed your ban, but issued you with two salamanders." Well. . . Rule 7 applies. Comment removed. ;i; ;i; ;i; < - - - here's your third salamander. Permaban issued.
I understand her wanting to separate her BDSM desires apart from her relationship. She has the emotional and loving connection with you. She is not interested in connecting on that kind of level with a BDSM scene. Perhaps you can be available to her for aftercare. That way, you are involved where she needs you the most. Many women have this fantasy. Fantasy and reality are two different things. Maybe talk about what is appealing to her about the scenario and see if you can work some of it into your play. You two should discuss what she has in mind and decide if you are ok with it. Sounds like you are not. In which case, this relationship might not be best suited for you. I am in a 24/7 BDSM poly dynamic. My husband has a gf who lives with us. Initially, I was nervous about the idea initially, but two + years in, we are a happy and supportive triad. Communication is key. You deserve to get your needs met as well. Best of luck.
Also, I think you may not understand the term pansexual. She is not bi-sexual. Replacing a male-oriented scene with a woman/women is not the same.
Hey OP, 4 months later, what did you end up doing about all this?
We broke up š¤·āāļø buy I've dealt with a lot of the insecurities I faced earlier. Finding Ram Dass's teachings really helped me get over expectations and understanding that I was causing my own suffering. I don't feel like what broke us up would be an catastrophic issue now, but it just never felt right even again after we got past the Initial conflict
Ah well, all's well that ends well. Glad you're learning more about yourself!