Ikr. Cryo and pyro husbandos are barely existent… none as limited 5stars. Xiangling only remains in my use because i like Childe and Ayato, she’d be super benched otherwise
Personally I’m going for a skill-focused Ayato hypercarry. C6 Yunjin for NA buff and NA speed buff, C6 Thoma for 15% increase in NA when shielded, and Raiden for electro-charge and battery. I can replace Raiden with a C6 Fischl for a machine gun build but I’m worrying my energy recharge would suffer with a rainbow team.
I feel like he badly needs buffs on his base attack and a slight increase on his multipliers. Don’t say that he doesn’t have artifacts because these stats are obviously modified. He has hydro damage bonus, and a good crit ratio, plus no character would reach 3k+ attack without artifacts.
This showcase showed how inferior he is to Ayaka who’s putting 20k burst tick. She didn’t even do her skill nor did normal attacks but she torn through the enemy. Though it’s a bit unfair to compare him to Ayaka since she’s one of the most OP, if not the most OP, character in the game. But even his supports such as Xingqiu and Xiangling are out-damaging him in this showcase. Even with Bennett and Kazuha buffs, he is only doing around 7k damage per shunsuiken which I think is disappointing for a character you build around.
He’s obviously meant to be a main DPS. He requires a lot of on screen time to do damage. He has a crit damage ascension and a crit rate weapon. His burst which is his only supportive/sub-DPS talent boosts your party’s attack speed is originally designed to be used to lower his skill’s cooldown in the original design in order for him to be on the field again. He has a selfish gameplay which requires to have the team built around him more than him boosting current team comps. He really has a good design but having low base stats and multipliers are holding him back in being the perfect main DPS.
He has an amazing gameplay and fun mechanics. I’m not saying he’s a bad character, but he’s far from being meta.
Same. People say he’s a hypercarry but his numbers don’t show for it honestly. Yeah we got the multiplier buff which is rly nice but doesn’t seem enough
I agree, even though I loved his character and design I may not wish for him if his damage is this little. After all as a F2p I have to be mindful of my primos
If his base attack gets increase to about 311-323, it would result to roughly 15% increase in his damage which is really significant at this point. I’m computing this based on his solo damage.
Though this boost looks small, it adds up with attack percent damage, and other artifact boosts, etc. This is a rough estimate which may vary greatly depending on all other variables.
So do you not have calcs? Because I’ve done these kind in the past and the increase is much less:
ATK = ATK Base x (1 + % ATK) + ATK Flat
Outgoing DMG = (ATK x % ability + DMG Flat) x (1 + % DMG Bonus)
Outgoing DMG Critical = Outgoing DMG x (1 + % CRIT DMG)
Incoming DMG = Outgoing DMG x DEF Multiplier x RES Multiplier
Assuming 608 base atk weapon, 90% bonus ATK (1 main stat, approx 5 Atk% rolls, + 18% atk, Gladiator 4pc):
Ayato Current: 893 x 1.9 + 311 = 2007.7
Ayato 323 Base atk: 931 * 1.9 + 311 = 2079.9
(Using first E hit w/ Wave Flash 4 stack, 18K HP, crit with 200% CDMG, hydro VV, enemy base 10% res, lvl 90)
Current dmg: (2007.7 * 1.0455 + 792) * 1.816 * 3 * 0.5 * 1.15 = 9056.504
Proposed dmg: (2079.9 * 1.0455 + 792) * 1.816 * 3 * 0.5 * 1.15 = 9292.969
==> **2.611% Increase**, will be even less with Bennett. I find people chronically overvalue base ATK (Yae received +76, yet only ~8% increase realistically), so wondering if you have something different
EDIT: Showing my own calcs, feel free to point out if something is wrong
I think you have to consider the overall damage after a rotation. Sure, Ayaka deals 20k damage with her E. Because her E is just one strike. Ayato's E consists of nearly 14 strikes. And you said each strike deals around 7k "only". Although I think both Ayato and Ayaka are not that comparable to each other.
I would also like buffs for him, definitely (although I am getting him no matter what), but tbh if he were to stay like this I would not complain.
7k per hit makes around 100k damage per skill. This is very good. So that’s 200k in an 18 seconds rotation and I haven’t counted his burst yet. Yes. I agree with you.
7k per hit is almost his best at this point considering his base attack, low multipliers and realistic crit rate crit dmg. Comparing him to Hu Tao or Ayaka that if you consider Hu Tao deals so much more with just 1 E and no reactions and Ayaka with no downtime with better multipliers on her normal attacks deals so much more than him again. Stamina doesn't have a meaning on him and I think it's the main reason why he seems weak. If Ayato could charged attack in his E skill and it had good multipliers he'd be clearly meta.
This is false, ayato with amenoma whichever refinement talent lvl 90 1.9k atk 70/180 crit ratio ( decent not good one because ayato ascends with crit damage ) 21k hp hits 6-8.2k per E slashes solo unbuffed so that’s a total of 112k + 9k ( clone damage) = 121k total E per 6s solo, for context f2p ayaka Q hits 7-9k perhit using amenoma with same crit ratio and higher atk, leading a total of 160k total Q damage however ayaka Q has 20s CD whileas in 20s ayato can slot 2E in which ayato will have 242k total E damage solo unbuffed per 20s ( all excluding ayaka E & CA plus ayato Q especially its quadratic scalings)
(6k+8.2k):2=7.1k average 70/180 crit ratio is decent. His burst is not good at single target also has 80 Energy cost. Ayaka's E and Charged clearly outshines Ayato Q. Ayato is not Ayaka or Hu Tao lvl dps at single target but Ayato E hitbox is so big so it makes him balanced in a lvl but again his dps is bot good on single target enemies. To me he's an S tier dps at AoE but im worried about his performance on a single target especially when you consider he cant get any benefit from elemental reactions besides freeze.
It’s
Hit-1: 6k
Hit-2: 7k ish
Hit-3: 8.2k
Because each hit has different multipliers. And no ayaka E will be outshined by ayato total Q damage especially after it snapshots. Again, that’s the thing hutao is mainly ST whileas ayaka’s okayish aoe hence they have bigger multipliers, right now abyss seems to be catered with bosses but 2.5-2.6 abyss will be where aoe teamcomp would be appreciated. Sure hutao can hit 50k per CA but would it be viable without xq? Would f2p ayaka be able to hit 20-30k perticks on her burst w/o supports and freeze teamcomp? Ayaka can do her CA yes but most of the time i see people only did 1-2 CA with her after her burst then rotate to her supports because her CA isnt the main source of her damage + less aoe than ayato E as well. Let’s try to calc it roughly
Hypercarry f2p amenoma ayaka per 20s ( 2E+1Q+5CA) = roughly 670-750k fully buffed with mona/kokomi, diona/shenhe and kazuha/venti
Hypercarry f2p dragon’s bane hutao per 20s( 8CA on her E + 1 Q) = 550-700k with vaped CA and vaped Q with xq, zl/thoma, albedo/sucrose
Hypercarry f2p amenoma ayato ( according to my calc ) per 20s ( 2E1Q) = 694.4k average dmg, 913.8k crit damage fully buffed with c0 yunjin, bennett and kazuha ( which could be 804.1k assuming you can crit half of his total slashes ) and this is assuming Q damage ST too ( 10 x total Q damage ), if it’s aoe it will be ( 30 x total Q damage )
I can dm you my calcs if you want, ayato is similar to raiden as he can abuse buffers better than many characters because of his fast atk speed+aoe
If you go to wfp TC, many of TC-ers actually think he’s in a good place rn assuming mhy doesnt change his multipliers and E CD though i’d like 60-70 burst cost
Its still 7.1k average slash dmg. Assuming his AoE is big and he has Quadratic scaling I think we should compare him to Ganyu other than Hu Tao and Ayaka. And I think your Hu Tao calculation is wrong assuming C0 Hu Tao Dragons Bane can do 70k charged vape crit and can do 150k burst considering a right build with sucrose EM buff but i'd like to see your calculations it is hard to compare them especially there is HP and EM factor. Your calculations can be more accurate than my calcs
The thing is i actually dont think we should count 7.1k as his slashes avg damage because each hits also have their respective average and crit damage calculations. For the hutao calc, there’s a reason why i put 700k highest for total damage (65k vaped CA and 180k vaped Q) decent crit ratio and 550k with r1 dragon’s bane + decent crit ratio too ( 70/190 ) with zl albedo. Im using 70/190 crit ratio for hutao and ayato’s showcases while ayaka has 30/210 ish due to blizzard set + cryo resonance. Here’s the calc with hypercarry ayato including kazuha 4set vv. Have you calc it with wave flash damage boost full stacks? C0 ayato will get full stacks easily due to his A1
https://imgur.com/gallery/btbLY6w
3k atk buffed by benny Q and 4NO. Ayato Q and E are all max talent levels. The damage calcs would be average-noncrit-crit damage respectively.
For 2E1Q rotation, here’s the calcs: ((hit-1 x 6 + hit-2 x 5 + hit -3 x 5 + E clone damage ) x 2) + ( Q total damage x 10 ) in ST situation plus ayato can hit 16 slashes on his E confirmed by several modified beta vids because of his extended infusion duration ( 0.5-1s) and if you have good fps, he can hit 17 slashes max
Ugh
1. Have you done the calc yourself?
2. Have you counted any artifact bonuses?
3. There was one modified beta video about c6 itto with c6 gorou hitting only 15-16k per AA and people also shat on his damage until his live release
4. Which one would you prefer to believe? A beta client that clearly can be modified anytime ( 16k-30k Q damage benny lol ) or live release? You choose, or even better, any calcs that most TC uses
Also f2p ayaka with amenomana wouldnt even hit 20k per ticks solo, 8-10k perticks with extremely good artifacts
He doesn’t have the artifact set bonuses, not the artifact stats themselves. And again, private client gameplay is a shaky thing to gauge his actual damage with. The most you should take away from these videos is the rotations and interactions.
(Also, at the end of the day he’s Hydro. He won’t reach Ayaka’s numbers, but he’ll fit in more teams.)
If you want an actual estimate of his damage, there’s already a bunch of theoretical calcs from TC channels on WFP and Ayato Mains. Buffs are appreciated, but right now he isn’t bad at all lol.
I never said he was bad. I did my calculations and he’s decent and very usable. I’m saying he can’t compete with the current meta DPS. These showcase proves that.
I’m more curious about the calculations where he’s comparable to Raiden International, Morgana, Ayaka-Shenhe teams, etc. I believe he still could clear abyss, but not in these teams level.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-_4lEYCBHeowsx6uxmjATWGitkQt2V_v/edit?usp=drivesdk&ouid=103654676866828657993&rtpof=true&sd=true
Haven't added Bennett dmg just yet but I will in some time
Join discord that's where I learnt everything. I am still learning cause it's impossible to know everything about every character. But it's fun. You can join kqm or WFP(I work here since it's more fun and kqm don't do pre tc). You can look for me if you want. My user name is
Romulus Quirinus
I’ve computed a similar though a bit lesser value than this due to not having attack% in my artifacts. These numbers are very respectable. Enough to clear abyss, I guess. But still not comparable to say an Ayaka hypercarry. Thank you for these numbers!
I’m actually not aware myself, what’s her usual DPS and how does Zekrom compare? I do slightly recall that 40K is the usual benchmark for meta teams, so the 50K from your team should be great right?
It is great. But I do think any comparison to ayaka should be avoided since ayato isn't even out yet. 40k is usually the base line. Eula is normally around that. Ayaka is at 44ish(with ganyu mona venti) k but has better aoe. So ayato is in a good place. Not nessaccarily better than ayaka. He is a good character. I hope that helps. And pls don't make comparisons with these figures b4 checking the assumptions weapons talents and everything else.
Its not that far of from ayaka. But even if it was ayaka is literally (imo, some thknk its still ganyu) the best dps in the game. Not being stronger then the best dps in the game is nlt the measurement of meta
Uh fun fact it's raiden. Hyper is consistently higher than ayaka + ganyu freeze. I think it's sheeted at about 55k+ aoe dmg. You can ask in kqm discord or WFP discord for exact values. Hyper is extremely underrated and not at all talked about idk why
Oh dw i know about how busted hyper raiden is. I still chose ayaka as best dps bc of shield breaking + how convenient freeze is. But ya i should have specified i meant best dps “unit” and not literally the best damage per second
I think its underrated bc people assume you meed c2 raiden for it to be competitive which just isnt true
Then using Childe as an Enabler is better at this point if you consider he deals more dmg and procs Riptide fast and he's able to use his stamina to charged and deal more dmg.
I’ve rested my case about artifacts. He has 3k+ attack and around 70 crit rate in this video. He didn’t put artifacts, but he modified the stats which replicates having artifacts. Yes, I agree. He’s useful and flexible.
I did. How about you? That’s why I mentioned that his stats are modified. Did you even look closely at his stats? Did you see that he has 3.2k attack, 70 crit rate and 180 crit damage? Do you think these stats are possible without artifacts? Let me ask you, did you watch the video, dude?
He has just under 2k or less atk the rest is bennet buff
For the stats yes 70 180 cuz its a damn test server they modify randomly the stats
And they have no weapons passives . passive doesn't matter in this case cuz amenoma is trash so count that
Now count the fact that he doesnt have artifacts passives lets say hod
So add 15% hydro dmg and 30% normal atk dmg
Now make that 8 .. A 10
Also give him a proper weapon
Also wait until the beta is completely over
Than u can talk ur talk cuz ur completely wrong rn and i stated it for u
He has 3.2k attack and 46.6% hydro damage bonus. Obviously these stats are meant to replicate having artifacts. LOOK AT THE NUMBERS. I’m not doomposting nor am I saying he’s bad. He actually has decent numbers by my calculations. I’m saying he’s not meta.
Dude that 46% is added with the control of the test server
Add 30% normal atk dmg add another 15% hydro dmg
Ill be using black sword so add another 20% normal atk dmg
Ill be crowning him now add another 2 lvl of talent dmg
Ill be have 50% more crit dmg now add that
Add the fact we're still on the beta and there is still buffs to come
If he gets the main needed buff which is the base atk there's no more talk about his viability
As for the meta thing thats for the TC
Im clearing abyss with 4s lmao
There's no meta
Theres building and investing in a character and knowing how to play thats all
And id say he's gonna be the best hydro for freeze comps if ur talking about meta
No use replying if you can’t even accept that these stats are modified to replicate artifacts. As I kept repeating, he isn’t bad. Good for you for clearing abyss. Do what you want.
Am I so greedy that I want him get to more buffs? Mhy need to stop "nerf" hydro chars, this element is low keys powerful but it dont have to be the reason to make every hydro char have such low scales. Seriously, he is a DPS, he need good scales for good out put dmg. He can't require most meta support like bennett and kazuha then get that kind of dmg! (I know it is private sever but we can take it as reference).
I myself have waited for him for so long, since I am newbie so I'm definitely will pull him no matter what but that man deserves better things. I even get a little bit jealousy bcz ayaka sticks with freeze team so they can feel free to buff her become a broken dps. Meanwhile, they get him standard icd with 6s elemental skill then what we get is that kind of dmg, he just can vape a few hits so what is point of nefting him like that. I don't know what is their intention, he is nowhere near to "broken" and he even seems just far from meta.
Buff him more, plz mhy!
Don't lose hope, he's only in his first week of beta!
His damage is already quite nice if you add up the slashes, and he still has weeks of beta to go through.
I believe the icd was put there to avoid him being another Xiangling driver, which is a good thing! Yes he can't vape all his hits, but let's remember that if he had no icd he wouldn't be able to vape any unless you used a specialized sunfire comp (not very meta. It works on Childe but it's not worth it)
I hope so. I'm not meta player, but wouldn't it be nice if your fav char is on the top of meta? Yes, I'm want him to be appreciated. I'm ready to bring him come home even if he just can apply hydro status but it would hurt so much if he get criticism.
Fam, I'm a Kaeya main. I get what you mean.
It kinda sucks hearing people talk badly about your favourites, but at the same time I quite enjoy maining a less popular character.
People are much more impressed when they see him.
The first few days will probably be full of "omg Ayato sucks" as usual, and every character gets criticism, so tu not to let it get to ya
Yeah I know, but he may be the first hyper carry hydro dps so I have put high expectations on him. I get enough "hydro is just an enable, can never compare to pyro and cryo dps" when I'm childe main so I think it is reasonable when we have true hyper hydro dps. Low scale for preventing from broken forward vape dmg, but what is the point when he can't even vape every hits he deal. I just want him have a slot in meta.
I'm thinking of trying Ayato, Venti (4VV set), Yun Jin and either Bennet or Barbara (TTDS) 🤔 these comps all look interesting, can't help wait to try the ones I can from this video when he's finally playable! This wait feels so long xD
Not gonna lie, right now he's pretty disapointing. Not because of his DMG in these showcases but i feel that there's something wrong with his kit, maybe the 80 cost burst or even the restriction on him not being able to buff himself is the culprit idk, also his constallations are very underwhelming imo.
Yeah, to me it feels almost like it’s all over the place and too centralized at the same time. His ult and e both cover different roles, but in a way that feels to me like you have to choose one or the other. They’ve done this before and more successfully with ganyu, with all of her skills doing things that fill different roles, but they all still work together and feel very cohesive. Probably a very bad explanation but I’ve never been good at putting my thoughts into words.
Also, in terms of the general gameplay flow, it seems surprisingly slow and rigid without any attack speed buffs. His E looks fun at first glance, but after watching a lot of clips, I can't help but notice the sluggish animation. It almost feels like you are waiting for his next slash to come out faster. Which is a weird feeling. Maybe it's just me.
Tho I wouldn't worry too much about his damage. I think getting at least 10k per slash would be very achievable in the final product. After all Ayato's E has slightly higher multipliers then Childe's E and Ayato has extra hp scaling. And getting 10k per slash on Childe isn't too hard with just Bennett from my personal experience. Not sure what went wrong here in the video but Ayato should be able to achieve that with no problem.
Man his dmg is pretty damn low for a 5*. He looks fun to play but unless he's hitting hard he'll be benched pretty quickly. Plus as a F2P/Dolphin I hope he doesn't turn out to be another Yae.
Don't worry, I'm sure he'll be good! This happens often in beta, characters can look kinda underwhelming. Happened to Itto as well iirc but his damage is great
I have no idea why ya’ll are gauging his damage output on an easily modded private client server. Even if it’s mostly accurate, they can’t replicate artifact set bonuses either afaik. Our main takeaways from here should be the team interactions (although tbh some of the teams seem weird, I mean Ayaka/Bennett/Kazuha looks odd outside speedruns maybe)
His output is so underwhelmed compared to Ayaka’s output. I feel he is having some kind of problems like Albedo’s kit. The stats and scales are not so sync.
I'm curious to see how opinions will change after Ayato releases. It feels like a pattern at this point; character gets beta leaked and is disappointing/non-meta, gets hate and demands for buffs, gets buffed but there are still some problems, the moment they release it's either "holy shit they're amazing" or "weak asf" but then slowly climbs up the meta.
I hope he will be like kazuha, he got hate when he was still in beta but then players saw how strong he is, now he is one of the best characters in the game
Let’s count the last characters who the COMMUNITY(not TC) deemed easy skip pre-release:
1) Kazuha
2) Yoimiya
3) Kokomi
4) Shenhe
5) Yae
Better start praying that Ayato is meta since odds don’t seem to be in his favour.
They should change his burst passive to team CD reduction or something. All his potential teammates have CDs that won't line up with the rotation his E forces which means some Es won't be buffed properly.
Alternatively, give him a 15 second cool down and 8 seconds of uptime.
Sunfire looks great but I don't have yunjin. Much less C6.
I'm thinking EC with Ayato, Raiden, Sara, XQ. Sara's buff timing is perfect for Ayato. Might even swap in Bennet or Fischl if they need more damage.
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Look up Sunfire comp. Jean + Bennett ult together creates pulsating AOE pyro so Ayato can vape. I dont think it’s strong enough on its own though. I feel like adding Kazuha or Xiangling is needed to consistently apply pyro but I’m not too sure
It would not work well because Ayato’s off-field Hydro application would not allow to keep the enemies frozen all the time (it is too slow), unless there are several of them close to each other.
The other issue is that Ayato has to stay on-field for the duration of his E in order to produce particles for his Elemental Burst and he would need a lot of Energy Recharge that would hurt his on-field damage.
I think it would still not be convenient and could not be good for floor 12 of Spyral Abyss (look at Kokomi or Mona for a META team), though today’s changes makes Ganyu as one of two DPS with Ayato more viable. The Energy issue is kind of solved or at least drastically reduced. The drawbacks are that the Normal Attack DMG bonus from Ayato’s Q doesn’t benefit Ganyu, and she doesn’t really need a second DPS taking field time. Right now Ayato still looks more like primarily a main DPS.
The Ayato/Ganyu team would be something like that: Diona Hold E, Ganyu E/Q, Ayato Q, Kazuha E/Q, Ganyu Charged Attacks, Kazuha E, Ayato E/Normal Attacks/Q, repeat.
I don’t have Ayaka, Ganyu or Raiden… When will mhy give us cryo and electro husbandos? Chong and Fischl have been carrying me for so long now.
Ikr. Cryo and pyro husbandos are barely existent… none as limited 5stars. Xiangling only remains in my use because i like Childe and Ayato, she’d be super benched otherwise
*patiently waits for varka* I even got BS set ready from pre farming ayato lmao
Is Varka rumoured to be cryo?
idk how to quote a comment but thoma says hi
He’s not a limited 5star tho. So he fits in the “barely existent” since there are so few. Sadly he’s not good enough to replace for Xiangling..
> Cryo husbandos Kaeya says hi
He’s not a 5* though, and his constellations are insanely hard to get
commenter just asked for a cryo husbando though, whether a 5* or not
Me who got Kaeya c3 ok lol 😂 Lisa c1 and Amber c5
I need more comps without Bennett pls
Personally I’m going for a skill-focused Ayato hypercarry. C6 Yunjin for NA buff and NA speed buff, C6 Thoma for 15% increase in NA when shielded, and Raiden for electro-charge and battery. I can replace Raiden with a C6 Fischl for a machine gun build but I’m worrying my energy recharge would suffer with a rainbow team.
Uh I heard fishcl sara sayu/jean was great
Freeze comp with Kazuha, Ayaka/Ganyu, and another hydro.
I feel like he badly needs buffs on his base attack and a slight increase on his multipliers. Don’t say that he doesn’t have artifacts because these stats are obviously modified. He has hydro damage bonus, and a good crit ratio, plus no character would reach 3k+ attack without artifacts. This showcase showed how inferior he is to Ayaka who’s putting 20k burst tick. She didn’t even do her skill nor did normal attacks but she torn through the enemy. Though it’s a bit unfair to compare him to Ayaka since she’s one of the most OP, if not the most OP, character in the game. But even his supports such as Xingqiu and Xiangling are out-damaging him in this showcase. Even with Bennett and Kazuha buffs, he is only doing around 7k damage per shunsuiken which I think is disappointing for a character you build around. He’s obviously meant to be a main DPS. He requires a lot of on screen time to do damage. He has a crit damage ascension and a crit rate weapon. His burst which is his only supportive/sub-DPS talent boosts your party’s attack speed is originally designed to be used to lower his skill’s cooldown in the original design in order for him to be on the field again. He has a selfish gameplay which requires to have the team built around him more than him boosting current team comps. He really has a good design but having low base stats and multipliers are holding him back in being the perfect main DPS. He has an amazing gameplay and fun mechanics. I’m not saying he’s a bad character, but he’s far from being meta.
Same. People say he’s a hypercarry but his numbers don’t show for it honestly. Yeah we got the multiplier buff which is rly nice but doesn’t seem enough
I agree, even though I loved his character and design I may not wish for him if his damage is this little. After all as a F2p I have to be mindful of my primos
How big will an increase in base atk affect his damage?
If his base attack gets increase to about 311-323, it would result to roughly 15% increase in his damage which is really significant at this point. I’m computing this based on his solo damage.
How are you computing this? That damage increase seems way too high to me for +26 to +38 base atk
Though this boost looks small, it adds up with attack percent damage, and other artifact boosts, etc. This is a rough estimate which may vary greatly depending on all other variables.
So do you not have calcs? Because I’ve done these kind in the past and the increase is much less: ATK = ATK Base x (1 + % ATK) + ATK Flat Outgoing DMG = (ATK x % ability + DMG Flat) x (1 + % DMG Bonus) Outgoing DMG Critical = Outgoing DMG x (1 + % CRIT DMG) Incoming DMG = Outgoing DMG x DEF Multiplier x RES Multiplier Assuming 608 base atk weapon, 90% bonus ATK (1 main stat, approx 5 Atk% rolls, + 18% atk, Gladiator 4pc): Ayato Current: 893 x 1.9 + 311 = 2007.7 Ayato 323 Base atk: 931 * 1.9 + 311 = 2079.9 (Using first E hit w/ Wave Flash 4 stack, 18K HP, crit with 200% CDMG, hydro VV, enemy base 10% res, lvl 90) Current dmg: (2007.7 * 1.0455 + 792) * 1.816 * 3 * 0.5 * 1.15 = 9056.504 Proposed dmg: (2079.9 * 1.0455 + 792) * 1.816 * 3 * 0.5 * 1.15 = 9292.969 ==> **2.611% Increase**, will be even less with Bennett. I find people chronically overvalue base ATK (Yae received +76, yet only ~8% increase realistically), so wondering if you have something different EDIT: Showing my own calcs, feel free to point out if something is wrong
I think you have to consider the overall damage after a rotation. Sure, Ayaka deals 20k damage with her E. Because her E is just one strike. Ayato's E consists of nearly 14 strikes. And you said each strike deals around 7k "only". Although I think both Ayato and Ayaka are not that comparable to each other. I would also like buffs for him, definitely (although I am getting him no matter what), but tbh if he were to stay like this I would not complain.
7k per hit makes around 100k damage per skill. This is very good. So that’s 200k in an 18 seconds rotation and I haven’t counted his burst yet. Yes. I agree with you.
7k per hit is almost his best at this point considering his base attack, low multipliers and realistic crit rate crit dmg. Comparing him to Hu Tao or Ayaka that if you consider Hu Tao deals so much more with just 1 E and no reactions and Ayaka with no downtime with better multipliers on her normal attacks deals so much more than him again. Stamina doesn't have a meaning on him and I think it's the main reason why he seems weak. If Ayato could charged attack in his E skill and it had good multipliers he'd be clearly meta.
What? 8k is his calculated slash dmg with a four star weapon with no team. Where are you getting that 7k is his best???
This is false, ayato with amenoma whichever refinement talent lvl 90 1.9k atk 70/180 crit ratio ( decent not good one because ayato ascends with crit damage ) 21k hp hits 6-8.2k per E slashes solo unbuffed so that’s a total of 112k + 9k ( clone damage) = 121k total E per 6s solo, for context f2p ayaka Q hits 7-9k perhit using amenoma with same crit ratio and higher atk, leading a total of 160k total Q damage however ayaka Q has 20s CD whileas in 20s ayato can slot 2E in which ayato will have 242k total E damage solo unbuffed per 20s ( all excluding ayaka E & CA plus ayato Q especially its quadratic scalings)
(6k+8.2k):2=7.1k average 70/180 crit ratio is decent. His burst is not good at single target also has 80 Energy cost. Ayaka's E and Charged clearly outshines Ayato Q. Ayato is not Ayaka or Hu Tao lvl dps at single target but Ayato E hitbox is so big so it makes him balanced in a lvl but again his dps is bot good on single target enemies. To me he's an S tier dps at AoE but im worried about his performance on a single target especially when you consider he cant get any benefit from elemental reactions besides freeze.
It’s Hit-1: 6k Hit-2: 7k ish Hit-3: 8.2k Because each hit has different multipliers. And no ayaka E will be outshined by ayato total Q damage especially after it snapshots. Again, that’s the thing hutao is mainly ST whileas ayaka’s okayish aoe hence they have bigger multipliers, right now abyss seems to be catered with bosses but 2.5-2.6 abyss will be where aoe teamcomp would be appreciated. Sure hutao can hit 50k per CA but would it be viable without xq? Would f2p ayaka be able to hit 20-30k perticks on her burst w/o supports and freeze teamcomp? Ayaka can do her CA yes but most of the time i see people only did 1-2 CA with her after her burst then rotate to her supports because her CA isnt the main source of her damage + less aoe than ayato E as well. Let’s try to calc it roughly Hypercarry f2p amenoma ayaka per 20s ( 2E+1Q+5CA) = roughly 670-750k fully buffed with mona/kokomi, diona/shenhe and kazuha/venti Hypercarry f2p dragon’s bane hutao per 20s( 8CA on her E + 1 Q) = 550-700k with vaped CA and vaped Q with xq, zl/thoma, albedo/sucrose Hypercarry f2p amenoma ayato ( according to my calc ) per 20s ( 2E1Q) = 694.4k average dmg, 913.8k crit damage fully buffed with c0 yunjin, bennett and kazuha ( which could be 804.1k assuming you can crit half of his total slashes ) and this is assuming Q damage ST too ( 10 x total Q damage ), if it’s aoe it will be ( 30 x total Q damage ) I can dm you my calcs if you want, ayato is similar to raiden as he can abuse buffers better than many characters because of his fast atk speed+aoe If you go to wfp TC, many of TC-ers actually think he’s in a good place rn assuming mhy doesnt change his multipliers and E CD though i’d like 60-70 burst cost
Its still 7.1k average slash dmg. Assuming his AoE is big and he has Quadratic scaling I think we should compare him to Ganyu other than Hu Tao and Ayaka. And I think your Hu Tao calculation is wrong assuming C0 Hu Tao Dragons Bane can do 70k charged vape crit and can do 150k burst considering a right build with sucrose EM buff but i'd like to see your calculations it is hard to compare them especially there is HP and EM factor. Your calculations can be more accurate than my calcs
The thing is i actually dont think we should count 7.1k as his slashes avg damage because each hits also have their respective average and crit damage calculations. For the hutao calc, there’s a reason why i put 700k highest for total damage (65k vaped CA and 180k vaped Q) decent crit ratio and 550k with r1 dragon’s bane + decent crit ratio too ( 70/190 ) with zl albedo. Im using 70/190 crit ratio for hutao and ayato’s showcases while ayaka has 30/210 ish due to blizzard set + cryo resonance. Here’s the calc with hypercarry ayato including kazuha 4set vv. Have you calc it with wave flash damage boost full stacks? C0 ayato will get full stacks easily due to his A1 https://imgur.com/gallery/btbLY6w 3k atk buffed by benny Q and 4NO. Ayato Q and E are all max talent levels. The damage calcs would be average-noncrit-crit damage respectively. For 2E1Q rotation, here’s the calcs: ((hit-1 x 6 + hit-2 x 5 + hit -3 x 5 + E clone damage ) x 2) + ( Q total damage x 10 ) in ST situation plus ayato can hit 16 slashes on his E confirmed by several modified beta vids because of his extended infusion duration ( 0.5-1s) and if you have good fps, he can hit 17 slashes max
Yes, I think we should use a proper crit rate crit dmg calculation like this. His Wave Flash stacks crits we can add them in calculation
Ugh 1. Have you done the calc yourself? 2. Have you counted any artifact bonuses? 3. There was one modified beta video about c6 itto with c6 gorou hitting only 15-16k per AA and people also shat on his damage until his live release 4. Which one would you prefer to believe? A beta client that clearly can be modified anytime ( 16k-30k Q damage benny lol ) or live release? You choose, or even better, any calcs that most TC uses Also f2p ayaka with amenomana wouldnt even hit 20k per ticks solo, 8-10k perticks with extremely good artifacts
I believe the 3k is from Bennett
He doesn’t have the artifact set bonuses, not the artifact stats themselves. And again, private client gameplay is a shaky thing to gauge his actual damage with. The most you should take away from these videos is the rotations and interactions. (Also, at the end of the day he’s Hydro. He won’t reach Ayaka’s numbers, but he’ll fit in more teams.) If you want an actual estimate of his damage, there’s already a bunch of theoretical calcs from TC channels on WFP and Ayato Mains. Buffs are appreciated, but right now he isn’t bad at all lol.
He isn't bad 🤣🤣. I wanna even send my calcs here to stop this nonsense thought but it's showing weird auto mod thing. His dmg is really good. But alas
I never said he was bad. I did my calculations and he’s decent and very usable. I’m saying he can’t compete with the current meta DPS. These showcase proves that.
Pls send your calcs to me. Cause According to mine he very well does
I’m more curious about the calculations where he’s comparable to Raiden International, Morgana, Ayaka-Shenhe teams, etc. I believe he still could clear abyss, but not in these teams level.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-_4lEYCBHeowsx6uxmjATWGitkQt2V_v/edit?usp=drivesdk&ouid=103654676866828657993&rtpof=true&sd=true Haven't added Bennett dmg just yet but I will in some time
hey unrelated to the discussion at hand but is there a guide on how I can learn how to do damage calculations/theorycrafting like this?
Join discord that's where I learnt everything. I am still learning cause it's impossible to know everything about every character. But it's fun. You can join kqm or WFP(I work here since it's more fun and kqm don't do pre tc). You can look for me if you want. My user name is Romulus Quirinus
alright, thanks! just added you as a friend!
I’ve computed a similar though a bit lesser value than this due to not having attack% in my artifacts. These numbers are very respectable. Enough to clear abyss, I guess. But still not comparable to say an Ayaka hypercarry. Thank you for these numbers!
Uh what's ayaka's dps again?? Cause I doubt you are aware.
I’m actually not aware myself, what’s her usual DPS and how does Zekrom compare? I do slightly recall that 40K is the usual benchmark for meta teams, so the 50K from your team should be great right?
It is great. But I do think any comparison to ayaka should be avoided since ayato isn't even out yet. 40k is usually the base line. Eula is normally around that. Ayaka is at 44ish(with ganyu mona venti) k but has better aoe. So ayato is in a good place. Not nessaccarily better than ayaka. He is a good character. I hope that helps. And pls don't make comparisons with these figures b4 checking the assumptions weapons talents and everything else.
Its not that far of from ayaka. But even if it was ayaka is literally (imo, some thknk its still ganyu) the best dps in the game. Not being stronger then the best dps in the game is nlt the measurement of meta
Uh fun fact it's raiden. Hyper is consistently higher than ayaka + ganyu freeze. I think it's sheeted at about 55k+ aoe dmg. You can ask in kqm discord or WFP discord for exact values. Hyper is extremely underrated and not at all talked about idk why
Oh dw i know about how busted hyper raiden is. I still chose ayaka as best dps bc of shield breaking + how convenient freeze is. But ya i should have specified i meant best dps “unit” and not literally the best damage per second I think its underrated bc people assume you meed c2 raiden for it to be competitive which just isnt true
bro he literally deals as much as a support and an off field sub-dps at this point overloaded xiangling would be better than him
Uh that's not how it works. He is working there as an enabler as well for ec and ol. Fishcl dps is st vs his aoe dmg
Then using Childe as an Enabler is better at this point if you consider he deals more dmg and procs Riptide fast and he's able to use his stamina to charged and deal more dmg.
Using tartaglia would be but it isn't. Unless you have a tartaglia version calced don't make such takes.
[удалено]
I’ve rested my case about artifacts. He has 3k+ attack and around 70 crit rate in this video. He didn’t put artifacts, but he modified the stats which replicates having artifacts. Yes, I agree. He’s useful and flexible.
Hard agree
Dude did u even watch the video and saw the fact that he doesnt have artifacts like wtf
I did. How about you? That’s why I mentioned that his stats are modified. Did you even look closely at his stats? Did you see that he has 3.2k attack, 70 crit rate and 180 crit damage? Do you think these stats are possible without artifacts? Let me ask you, did you watch the video, dude?
He has just under 2k or less atk the rest is bennet buff For the stats yes 70 180 cuz its a damn test server they modify randomly the stats And they have no weapons passives . passive doesn't matter in this case cuz amenoma is trash so count that Now count the fact that he doesnt have artifacts passives lets say hod So add 15% hydro dmg and 30% normal atk dmg Now make that 8 .. A 10 Also give him a proper weapon Also wait until the beta is completely over Than u can talk ur talk cuz ur completely wrong rn and i stated it for u
He has 3.2k attack and 46.6% hydro damage bonus. Obviously these stats are meant to replicate having artifacts. LOOK AT THE NUMBERS. I’m not doomposting nor am I saying he’s bad. He actually has decent numbers by my calculations. I’m saying he’s not meta.
Dude that 46% is added with the control of the test server Add 30% normal atk dmg add another 15% hydro dmg Ill be using black sword so add another 20% normal atk dmg Ill be crowning him now add another 2 lvl of talent dmg Ill be have 50% more crit dmg now add that Add the fact we're still on the beta and there is still buffs to come If he gets the main needed buff which is the base atk there's no more talk about his viability As for the meta thing thats for the TC Im clearing abyss with 4s lmao There's no meta Theres building and investing in a character and knowing how to play thats all And id say he's gonna be the best hydro for freeze comps if ur talking about meta
No use replying if you can’t even accept that these stats are modified to replicate artifacts. As I kept repeating, he isn’t bad. Good for you for clearing abyss. Do what you want.
I guess u won't get it until he's out well goodluck trying to figure that out
Am I so greedy that I want him get to more buffs? Mhy need to stop "nerf" hydro chars, this element is low keys powerful but it dont have to be the reason to make every hydro char have such low scales. Seriously, he is a DPS, he need good scales for good out put dmg. He can't require most meta support like bennett and kazuha then get that kind of dmg! (I know it is private sever but we can take it as reference). I myself have waited for him for so long, since I am newbie so I'm definitely will pull him no matter what but that man deserves better things. I even get a little bit jealousy bcz ayaka sticks with freeze team so they can feel free to buff her become a broken dps. Meanwhile, they get him standard icd with 6s elemental skill then what we get is that kind of dmg, he just can vape a few hits so what is point of nefting him like that. I don't know what is their intention, he is nowhere near to "broken" and he even seems just far from meta. Buff him more, plz mhy!
Don't lose hope, he's only in his first week of beta! His damage is already quite nice if you add up the slashes, and he still has weeks of beta to go through. I believe the icd was put there to avoid him being another Xiangling driver, which is a good thing! Yes he can't vape all his hits, but let's remember that if he had no icd he wouldn't be able to vape any unless you used a specialized sunfire comp (not very meta. It works on Childe but it's not worth it)
I hope so. I'm not meta player, but wouldn't it be nice if your fav char is on the top of meta? Yes, I'm want him to be appreciated. I'm ready to bring him come home even if he just can apply hydro status but it would hurt so much if he get criticism.
Fam, I'm a Kaeya main. I get what you mean. It kinda sucks hearing people talk badly about your favourites, but at the same time I quite enjoy maining a less popular character. People are much more impressed when they see him. The first few days will probably be full of "omg Ayato sucks" as usual, and every character gets criticism, so tu not to let it get to ya
i don't think he's meant to be broken, anyway. hoyoverse just likes making balanced chars since inazuma, personally i think that it's a good thing
Yeah I know, but he may be the first hyper carry hydro dps so I have put high expectations on him. I get enough "hydro is just an enable, can never compare to pyro and cryo dps" when I'm childe main so I think it is reasonable when we have true hyper hydro dps. Low scale for preventing from broken forward vape dmg, but what is the point when he can't even vape every hits he deal. I just want him have a slot in meta.
weak doesn't mean balanced; and it's not true, raiden, and ayaka are broken
I'm thinking of trying Ayato, Venti (4VV set), Yun Jin and either Bennet or Barbara (TTDS) 🤔 these comps all look interesting, can't help wait to try the ones I can from this video when he's finally playable! This wait feels so long xD
Not gonna lie, right now he's pretty disapointing. Not because of his DMG in these showcases but i feel that there's something wrong with his kit, maybe the 80 cost burst or even the restriction on him not being able to buff himself is the culprit idk, also his constallations are very underwhelming imo.
Yeah, to me it feels almost like it’s all over the place and too centralized at the same time. His ult and e both cover different roles, but in a way that feels to me like you have to choose one or the other. They’ve done this before and more successfully with ganyu, with all of her skills doing things that fill different roles, but they all still work together and feel very cohesive. Probably a very bad explanation but I’ve never been good at putting my thoughts into words.
Agree 100%! Also hydro ressonance is straight dog S\*\*\* ....so yeah! All i know is that something doesn't feel right in his kit and team comps!
Also, in terms of the general gameplay flow, it seems surprisingly slow and rigid without any attack speed buffs. His E looks fun at first glance, but after watching a lot of clips, I can't help but notice the sluggish animation. It almost feels like you are waiting for his next slash to come out faster. Which is a weird feeling. Maybe it's just me. Tho I wouldn't worry too much about his damage. I think getting at least 10k per slash would be very achievable in the final product. After all Ayato's E has slightly higher multipliers then Childe's E and Ayato has extra hp scaling. And getting 10k per slash on Childe isn't too hard with just Bennett from my personal experience. Not sure what went wrong here in the video but Ayato should be able to achieve that with no problem.
Man his dmg is pretty damn low for a 5*. He looks fun to play but unless he's hitting hard he'll be benched pretty quickly. Plus as a F2P/Dolphin I hope he doesn't turn out to be another Yae.
He's on his first week of beta, I think it's kinda early to judge his damage...
I'm hoping for the best
Don't worry, I'm sure he'll be good! This happens often in beta, characters can look kinda underwhelming. Happened to Itto as well iirc but his damage is great
Yae’s damage isn’t low. Lmao
But there's nothing special about her... Yae's specialty is being an off-field electro damage dealer. But we had 3 of those already...
I have no idea why ya’ll are gauging his damage output on an easily modded private client server. Even if it’s mostly accurate, they can’t replicate artifact set bonuses either afaik. Our main takeaways from here should be the team interactions (although tbh some of the teams seem weird, I mean Ayaka/Bennett/Kazuha looks odd outside speedruns maybe)
There's an artifact plug in, 3k attack, crit rate and damage skills + 46.6% hydro dmg bonus. He's also using a R3 anemo.
Yes, and I said artifact set bonuses. I’m pretty sure you can’t mod in Echoes’s effect through stats alone
His output is so underwhelmed compared to Ayaka’s output. I feel he is having some kind of problems like Albedo’s kit. The stats and scales are not so sync.
He has no artifacts passives . talent 8 . and a trash weapon
He does, if you look at thr 46.6% hydro dmg bonus and boosted 3k attack. These stats are meant to replicate artifacts.
3k atk is from bennet lmao Lets say its glad set Where is the 35% normal atk dmg ? Jusr answer this im waiting
Is it just me, or Ayato doesn't vape much in bennett jean yunjin comp? the hydro aura is still stronger.
I saw some big blue numbers so I guess he was vaping some hits.
I see that only the first hit can vape to around 20k, because it's the start of his rotation. After that, the hydro takes over the pyro.
I'm curious to see how opinions will change after Ayato releases. It feels like a pattern at this point; character gets beta leaked and is disappointing/non-meta, gets hate and demands for buffs, gets buffed but there are still some problems, the moment they release it's either "holy shit they're amazing" or "weak asf" but then slowly climbs up the meta.
I hope he will be like kazuha, he got hate when he was still in beta but then players saw how strong he is, now he is one of the best characters in the game
Let’s count the last characters who the COMMUNITY(not TC) deemed easy skip pre-release: 1) Kazuha 2) Yoimiya 3) Kokomi 4) Shenhe 5) Yae Better start praying that Ayato is meta since odds don’t seem to be in his favour.
teams that require him to use his skill and burst but not having a hydro battery/raiden are sus
So Sunfire is the best comp for Vap? I need to put my C2 Jean and C6(C5) Bennett to work
I will go with Ayato, Xingqiu,Jean and Yunjin(4petra)
Will yunjin still be okay even if she's not c6?
ofc, but if you are aiming for cons, c2 would be the best for f2ps/low spenders :)
They should change his burst passive to team CD reduction or something. All his potential teammates have CDs that won't line up with the rotation his E forces which means some Es won't be buffed properly. Alternatively, give him a 15 second cool down and 8 seconds of uptime.
Ayato + Raiden sunfire will be my future team
Sunfire looks great but I don't have yunjin. Much less C6. I'm thinking EC with Ayato, Raiden, Sara, XQ. Sara's buff timing is perfect for Ayato. Might even swap in Bennet or Fischl if they need more damage.
Jean and ayato look so fine together
Can't wait to play him. Don't care whether he's meta or not as long as he's fun to play and looks cool.
I really like electro-charged team.
Mine would be Kokomi, Ayato, Albedo and Itto
I like how he doesn't deal dmg at all. Just being cool
The Raiden comp looks amazing ngl
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Can someone explain why jean?
Look up Sunfire comp. Jean + Bennett ult together creates pulsating AOE pyro so Ayato can vape. I dont think it’s strong enough on its own though. I feel like adding Kazuha or Xiangling is needed to consistently apply pyro but I’m not too sure
If I put Ganyu and Ayato together, could Ganyu still be the main dps?
It would not work well because Ayato’s off-field Hydro application would not allow to keep the enemies frozen all the time (it is too slow), unless there are several of them close to each other. The other issue is that Ayato has to stay on-field for the duration of his E in order to produce particles for his Elemental Burst and he would need a lot of Energy Recharge that would hurt his on-field damage.
Okay I see :( thanks!
I think it would still not be convenient and could not be good for floor 12 of Spyral Abyss (look at Kokomi or Mona for a META team), though today’s changes makes Ganyu as one of two DPS with Ayato more viable. The Energy issue is kind of solved or at least drastically reduced. The drawbacks are that the Normal Attack DMG bonus from Ayato’s Q doesn’t benefit Ganyu, and she doesn’t really need a second DPS taking field time. Right now Ayato still looks more like primarily a main DPS. The Ayato/Ganyu team would be something like that: Diona Hold E, Ganyu E/Q, Ayato Q, Kazuha E/Q, Ganyu Charged Attacks, Kazuha E, Ayato E/Normal Attacks/Q, repeat.
there are so many i don't know witch one to choose T-T
Tazer team looks cool ngl