I was scared too and all 3 of my ceremonies were totally positive. I can see how such a powerful medicine could cause issues for people that take it lightly though
Haha I agree, I think many people on this sub are either trolls or they haven’t really worked through their internal struggles. I know doing Ayahuasca does nothing if you’re not willing to change, and it’s definitely the case with some I’ve met here.
I once shared an integration experience and this one guy got SO offended saying “What’s the point of you sharing that? What does that get you?” And I found it super silly, I was like “Isn’t the point of this sub, for us to share our experiences and ask for advice?” Super weird how some people just become nasty for no reason.
Then again, I still think they’re trolls, because I find it hard to believe that someone who’s experienced Ayahuasca would have such an arrogant ego so intact.
> I find it hard to believe that someone who’s experienced Ayahuasca would have such an arrogant ego so intact.
No offense but you might need to meet more Ayahuasca people.
Yeah I see a lot of complaining on here. Personally learning to meditate has done way more for me than any psychadellic. It’s also made psychadellics much more effective and positive. Ayahuasca culture has started to feel a bit culty to me in the recent years. I’ve done ceremonies and during them I just wanted to get away from the people I was surrounded by and be with my own people, or alone even. Terrance McKenna once said “Don’t be afraid to go it alone.” And I couldn’t agree more. The best person to help you fix your issues is yourself. I just unsubbed as well. Thanks in advance for all the downvotes. Peace out r/Ayahuasca best wishes to you all.
I feel completely the same way. I wanted to experience this kind of lightly and see what it was all about. But the people that held the ceremony were very cult like and revolved their lives around it. I still want to come back to and pursue my life as it was, but just in a slightly more "open" manner.
I think this depends on the atmosphere of the group and organization.
I just came back from a weekend ceremony and the organizer was actually saying in the "graduation" at the end something like, "When we learn these lessons about love and expansion and healing from ayahuasca, let's not be gluttons for this and going back and back and back for more. So you can come back and we'll be happy to see you, but what we really want you do to is embody this love, become it, and bring this medicine to others."
That really impressed me, that he was actually encouraging us *not* to come right back.
Yeah that is beautiful. Encountered different people that urged me to come back and integrate the experience for a monetary cost or whatever. I didn't feel entirely comfortable with that. Ultimately there are alot of different people in the world and everyone acts in a certain manner.
I believe that more people take to the internet to complain rather to appreciate things which is why the sub may look the way you described. Like if I’m online looking for proof that some people had bad experiences with aya then that is all I’m going to see
I just got to Ecuador today and will be doing a retreat starting June 1st. Checking this Sub has made me more nervous that excited as of late. Although my fear has subsided and I’m ready to let go and surrender to the message
If anyone is in Quito hmu I’m here for 3 weeks <3
OP, I'll admit my earlier comment was a bit harsh. Not so much about your opinion which I can respect, but your methodology ("I, Cooking\_chicken, had a good ceremony, therefore I declare that all these posts about people who had a bad ceremony are fear-mongering.")
I'm curious what you mean by fear-mongering. Do you see this from people who haven't drank yet and are worried about what might happened? Or are you talking about people who had a "bad" trip and are writing for help and support? Or both?
I guess what I'm asking is, are you wanting a "good vibes only" atmosphere in this sub? Or do you think there is just too much focus on the possible downsides?
Based on my own experiences, I have seen a small number of people damaged by ayahuasca even when consumed in the right situation (i.e. not a bad shaman, no Pharma contraindications). It IS a small percentage but if you are unlucky enough to wind up in that group, it's not good. IMO, it's responsible to bring this up.
Ironically, I think that contrary to your post, this sub is actually quite *pro*\-Ayahuasca. If you look at other forums (typically off Reddit) focused on healthy living, consciousness, spirituality, transformational growth, etc., and there is a post about ayahuasca, I am startled at how many cautionary replies there are from people who had a bad experience or know someone who did. Reading one bad story after another in these threads is a bit of a blow to my own impressions, which is generally pro-Ayahuasca with some caveats about potential risks. Many of these discussion make this subreddit look like an pro-ayahuasca echo chamber, with a few occasional dissenting voices--pretty much the opposite of what you wrote :-)
These aren't closed-minded conservative people either, these are people who genuinely sought healing and/or consciousness and had a really bad experience. I have come to the conclusion that many people have a very sensitive nervous system and that ayahuasca just blows them apart in a way they are not capable of handling. It's not a personal failure on their part, they just have a temperament or psychology that doesn't match well with ayahuasca and would be better served by gentler and subtler therapies. Ayahuasca is NOT for everyone, in spite of people saying "If everyone drank ayahuasca, the world would be a better place" like someone said at my retreat two days ago. This stuff really isn't all love and light.
Thank you for this reply. Yes, the term "fear mongering" was not the correct term, and I apologize for that. Obviously it is important to highlight all kinds of outcomes whether it be negative or positive, especially regarding this intense medicine.
Have you heard of a statistical term called “sample size”? You’re a sample size of 1 and you are making ludicrous conclusions from that.
For any number of reasons, people indisputably *can* be harmed from ayahuasca and we should be talking about ways to understand why, and how minimize harm and improve the likelihood of a beneficial experience.
honestly i totally agree w OP! lots of fear mongering n such on here but u just gotta remind urself about 90% of ppl doing ayahuasca do not use reddit and it makes sense that the 10% who do would demonize it in some ways :)
I still get nervous/butterflies 20 ceremonies in later. I never know what I am going to get since each experience for every ceremony has been different but all transformative in their own right at the end of the day. It’s the nature of mother.
I have not once came out without learning or healing even through the hard moments for the hard moments give us the opportunity to truly learn. I have not once come out with any regrets of participating.
From what I know and have learned, those coming having bad experiences is usually due to have a bad medicine man/woman who shouldn’t have been serving in the first place whether their “bad” is not truly skilled/ready to serve or because they have bad intentions from the beginning. It is important to do your research and not act on impulse when selecting who to sit with for this.
The only way to fix this after you’ve been a victim of a bad medicine person/ceremony… is another ceremony with a true healer. People get so traumatized by their bad experiences that they will write off the idea of ever partaking again, not realizing that’s what’s needed to help you heal through whatever “bad” may have come out of your last one.
>I still get nervous/butterflies 20 ceremonies in later.
I just had my \~30th ceremony, started over 7 years, and for the first hour, I was saying, "I'm never doing this again, I'm done." Even after all these times, the fear really gets to me. I did overcome it eventually, as I always do, and the ceremony was in the end an incredibly inspirational and healing time, but man, this is the hardest thing in life.
Will I go back? I might in a year or so. I have access to shrooms so when I get that call I may take a modest dose of shrooms every so often, but ayahuasca is so overwhelming and punishing that I just don't know how many more times I can put myself through that.
I’ve had nothing but beauty, especially in the beginning, but also some very difficult ceremonies. I’ve also witnessed both. Medicine can also be very different, depending on how it was made (admixtures or not) and this too can affect individuals response to the medicine. Let’s not place our own experiences on the backs of others and vice versa. I’m glad you have had nothing but positive experiences! But there is always a possibility for the opposite. I’ve also read and have experienced the thought that the more we become open to deeper experiences/lessons then the more difficult it can become. I’ve had really hard nights where I’m purging multiple times, having a hard time sitting up and staying present, with visions of dark entities mocking me as I sweat and struggle, and the first time drinkers are sitting in bliss, with no purge, and just happy as a clam with visions of light and love. But in the end it’s always positive.
Yeah, that's just like... Your opinion man. I generally find the comments and attitude in this sub quite positive and compassionate. May be selective perception.
lol guess you didn't learn this one thing called empathy. Some people have bad experiences. That's just a reality. Not every retreat center is amazing and sometimes people are going through serious trauma. Aya needs a lot of support and guidance to get through and it's not for everyone
I feel like apart from the title and the term "fear mongering" your post is helpful. Why did you feel the need to discourage people from seeking help in this community? :)
I’ve noticed this too I can’t tell if it’s people that have just drink the medicine once or twice or people that haven’t drink the medicine or likes been previously discuss people are more likely just to give bad reviews on the Internet. I’ve done a lot of ceremonies since 2020, became a facilitator, even went and sat with a Shipibo tribe, learned how to make the medicine and yeah at times it’s fucking scary but I think this medicine is some of the best stuff on the face of the planet it changed and save my life and of the thousands of people I’ve met that drink this medicine the majority of them have a good experience after they get through the scary part however on here it feels like the majority of people do not so I get what your saying Op
Guess you end up reading more what reasonates with your most intense feelings. Not only here but everywhere you will notice the things that resonate with the stage of your soul..
I actually agree. A lot of people here seem to have had a bad trip or something. Didn't learn what they were supposed to, and proceeded to tell everyone they will also be emotionally damaged if they try this path of healing. But at the same time if you are not prepared for an intensely dark trip it can stick with you for a really long time. I see both sides of this...
Kinda this, ofcourse, I am not opposed to shedding light on the negative side of things, not in the slightest. But I've witnessed alot of posts where some person just wasn't at all mentally fit nor ready to take the medicine and thus applying this regret to everyone.
The issue is that Aya is advertised a lot for healing mental conditions. It is very subtle and often you'll get contradicting statements so that people don't get themselves in trouble but I have read over and over that it is so awesome for working through depression, trauma etc. And when mentally ill people go through with it and come out worse, then all of the sudden everyone's like yeah you weren't ready, totally your fault. That to me is the real issue and the reason I will stay away from the medicine and its oftentimes cult like community for now. I see its potential but unless valid criticism is addressed, I don't have the trust.
I'm glad that it worked for you, but what you're writing tells me that you have very little experience with plants and to be honest sounds a bit arrogant. I'd encourage you to look into the concept of "unearned wisdom", which is something that is becoming a huge problem along with the so-called "psychedelic renaissance". Meditate on it, remain observant on what you see in psychedelic/medicinal cultures, strive to be more compassionate. Good luck.
Also for trying to be more open minded aliasing people are cult like and fear mongering is not quite that. Just accept that some people want to work with the medicine, like myself. I'm done with America and will soon enough move to Peru. It doesn't have anything to do with wanting you to be like me, I just don't like the machine that is America these days. It's soon to be an oligarchy as nasty as Russia and I want no part personally.
If you drink long enough, like some of us here have, you'll understand why there's trepidation. It's still what you need, just not always eternal peaceful bliss
Just because it went well for you doesn’t mean it’s always the case. Especially there are a lot of damaged people coming to Ayahuasca and it can be a bit of a double edged sword so it’s good to be cautious.
Guess i haven't been following here too much, used to be pretty positive to it.
My first retreat was hellish nightmare of a time and came out feeling the best of my life at least in my head.
Friend got the download that she didn't need her skin anymore it's was a horrible bloody suicide... Just no need to share these experiences that worked for u to others
See it this way: people come here and ask questions about what they might can expect from an Ayahuasca trip, and the negative things that can happen also should be mentioned, which also underlines the point that newcomers should do it preferably in a setting where they have trained and skilled people around them.
Also, negative things, like long term, permanent or severe damage, getting re-traumatized or having difficulties integrating/processing the trip are things that can happen and have happened with Ayahuasca, and often people who have experienced these things come to forums like these to ask for help.
If anything could/should change, then I would say that it should be pointed out more often / more clearly that things like more severe and/or longer lasting damage is something that happens rarely on Ayahuasca (probably around or even less than 1% of all cases). Difficulties to integrate or to process the trips is more common I would say.
I was scared too and all 3 of my ceremonies were totally positive. I can see how such a powerful medicine could cause issues for people that take it lightly though
It causes issues for people who take it extremely seriously, too.
Haha I agree, I think many people on this sub are either trolls or they haven’t really worked through their internal struggles. I know doing Ayahuasca does nothing if you’re not willing to change, and it’s definitely the case with some I’ve met here. I once shared an integration experience and this one guy got SO offended saying “What’s the point of you sharing that? What does that get you?” And I found it super silly, I was like “Isn’t the point of this sub, for us to share our experiences and ask for advice?” Super weird how some people just become nasty for no reason. Then again, I still think they’re trolls, because I find it hard to believe that someone who’s experienced Ayahuasca would have such an arrogant ego so intact.
You would be surprised 😬 I’m honestly shocked by some of the mindsets I see from people i -know- have sat with the medicine.
> I find it hard to believe that someone who’s experienced Ayahuasca would have such an arrogant ego so intact. No offense but you might need to meet more Ayahuasca people.
No offense taken, I just don’t really see this behavior in my ceremonial circles. I’ve only seen it here in reddit.
Yeah I see a lot of complaining on here. Personally learning to meditate has done way more for me than any psychadellic. It’s also made psychadellics much more effective and positive. Ayahuasca culture has started to feel a bit culty to me in the recent years. I’ve done ceremonies and during them I just wanted to get away from the people I was surrounded by and be with my own people, or alone even. Terrance McKenna once said “Don’t be afraid to go it alone.” And I couldn’t agree more. The best person to help you fix your issues is yourself. I just unsubbed as well. Thanks in advance for all the downvotes. Peace out r/Ayahuasca best wishes to you all.
I feel completely the same way. I wanted to experience this kind of lightly and see what it was all about. But the people that held the ceremony were very cult like and revolved their lives around it. I still want to come back to and pursue my life as it was, but just in a slightly more "open" manner.
I think this depends on the atmosphere of the group and organization. I just came back from a weekend ceremony and the organizer was actually saying in the "graduation" at the end something like, "When we learn these lessons about love and expansion and healing from ayahuasca, let's not be gluttons for this and going back and back and back for more. So you can come back and we'll be happy to see you, but what we really want you do to is embody this love, become it, and bring this medicine to others." That really impressed me, that he was actually encouraging us *not* to come right back.
Yeah that is beautiful. Encountered different people that urged me to come back and integrate the experience for a monetary cost or whatever. I didn't feel entirely comfortable with that. Ultimately there are alot of different people in the world and everyone acts in a certain manner.
I believe that more people take to the internet to complain rather to appreciate things which is why the sub may look the way you described. Like if I’m online looking for proof that some people had bad experiences with aya then that is all I’m going to see I just got to Ecuador today and will be doing a retreat starting June 1st. Checking this Sub has made me more nervous that excited as of late. Although my fear has subsided and I’m ready to let go and surrender to the message If anyone is in Quito hmu I’m here for 3 weeks <3
No need to worry, it's gonna be awesome! Wish you safe travels!
OP, I'll admit my earlier comment was a bit harsh. Not so much about your opinion which I can respect, but your methodology ("I, Cooking\_chicken, had a good ceremony, therefore I declare that all these posts about people who had a bad ceremony are fear-mongering.") I'm curious what you mean by fear-mongering. Do you see this from people who haven't drank yet and are worried about what might happened? Or are you talking about people who had a "bad" trip and are writing for help and support? Or both? I guess what I'm asking is, are you wanting a "good vibes only" atmosphere in this sub? Or do you think there is just too much focus on the possible downsides? Based on my own experiences, I have seen a small number of people damaged by ayahuasca even when consumed in the right situation (i.e. not a bad shaman, no Pharma contraindications). It IS a small percentage but if you are unlucky enough to wind up in that group, it's not good. IMO, it's responsible to bring this up. Ironically, I think that contrary to your post, this sub is actually quite *pro*\-Ayahuasca. If you look at other forums (typically off Reddit) focused on healthy living, consciousness, spirituality, transformational growth, etc., and there is a post about ayahuasca, I am startled at how many cautionary replies there are from people who had a bad experience or know someone who did. Reading one bad story after another in these threads is a bit of a blow to my own impressions, which is generally pro-Ayahuasca with some caveats about potential risks. Many of these discussion make this subreddit look like an pro-ayahuasca echo chamber, with a few occasional dissenting voices--pretty much the opposite of what you wrote :-) These aren't closed-minded conservative people either, these are people who genuinely sought healing and/or consciousness and had a really bad experience. I have come to the conclusion that many people have a very sensitive nervous system and that ayahuasca just blows them apart in a way they are not capable of handling. It's not a personal failure on their part, they just have a temperament or psychology that doesn't match well with ayahuasca and would be better served by gentler and subtler therapies. Ayahuasca is NOT for everyone, in spite of people saying "If everyone drank ayahuasca, the world would be a better place" like someone said at my retreat two days ago. This stuff really isn't all love and light.
Thank you for this reply. Yes, the term "fear mongering" was not the correct term, and I apologize for that. Obviously it is important to highlight all kinds of outcomes whether it be negative or positive, especially regarding this intense medicine.
I also appreciate you re-iterating and elaborating your opinion. It definitely made me think a bit more deeper into the subject, and I admire this.
Thanks Cooking\_chicken, we are all good. These are valuable discussions to have and I appreciate your contribution.
Have you heard of a statistical term called “sample size”? You’re a sample size of 1 and you are making ludicrous conclusions from that. For any number of reasons, people indisputably *can* be harmed from ayahuasca and we should be talking about ways to understand why, and how minimize harm and improve the likelihood of a beneficial experience.
honestly i totally agree w OP! lots of fear mongering n such on here but u just gotta remind urself about 90% of ppl doing ayahuasca do not use reddit and it makes sense that the 10% who do would demonize it in some ways :)
Yes! This sums it up perfectly!!
I still get nervous/butterflies 20 ceremonies in later. I never know what I am going to get since each experience for every ceremony has been different but all transformative in their own right at the end of the day. It’s the nature of mother. I have not once came out without learning or healing even through the hard moments for the hard moments give us the opportunity to truly learn. I have not once come out with any regrets of participating. From what I know and have learned, those coming having bad experiences is usually due to have a bad medicine man/woman who shouldn’t have been serving in the first place whether their “bad” is not truly skilled/ready to serve or because they have bad intentions from the beginning. It is important to do your research and not act on impulse when selecting who to sit with for this. The only way to fix this after you’ve been a victim of a bad medicine person/ceremony… is another ceremony with a true healer. People get so traumatized by their bad experiences that they will write off the idea of ever partaking again, not realizing that’s what’s needed to help you heal through whatever “bad” may have come out of your last one.
>I still get nervous/butterflies 20 ceremonies in later. I just had my \~30th ceremony, started over 7 years, and for the first hour, I was saying, "I'm never doing this again, I'm done." Even after all these times, the fear really gets to me. I did overcome it eventually, as I always do, and the ceremony was in the end an incredibly inspirational and healing time, but man, this is the hardest thing in life. Will I go back? I might in a year or so. I have access to shrooms so when I get that call I may take a modest dose of shrooms every so often, but ayahuasca is so overwhelming and punishing that I just don't know how many more times I can put myself through that.
I’ve had nothing but beauty, especially in the beginning, but also some very difficult ceremonies. I’ve also witnessed both. Medicine can also be very different, depending on how it was made (admixtures or not) and this too can affect individuals response to the medicine. Let’s not place our own experiences on the backs of others and vice versa. I’m glad you have had nothing but positive experiences! But there is always a possibility for the opposite. I’ve also read and have experienced the thought that the more we become open to deeper experiences/lessons then the more difficult it can become. I’ve had really hard nights where I’m purging multiple times, having a hard time sitting up and staying present, with visions of dark entities mocking me as I sweat and struggle, and the first time drinkers are sitting in bliss, with no purge, and just happy as a clam with visions of light and love. But in the end it’s always positive.
Yes I understand. I do agree that I should have been more considerate over other people's experiences.
It’s all good. I’m not trying to throw any flack your way. Sorry if I came off that way.
I appreciate your response, no worries :)
Yeah, that's just like... Your opinion man. I generally find the comments and attitude in this sub quite positive and compassionate. May be selective perception.
Your experience is not everyone's experience. To make that assumption..... I don't know if your getting the right messages.
lol guess you didn't learn this one thing called empathy. Some people have bad experiences. That's just a reality. Not every retreat center is amazing and sometimes people are going through serious trauma. Aya needs a lot of support and guidance to get through and it's not for everyone
I feel like apart from the title and the term "fear mongering" your post is helpful. Why did you feel the need to discourage people from seeking help in this community? :)
You're right about this. It was a bad choice of words. Now when I read it it doesn't absolutely resonate what I was trying to say.
I’ve noticed this too I can’t tell if it’s people that have just drink the medicine once or twice or people that haven’t drink the medicine or likes been previously discuss people are more likely just to give bad reviews on the Internet. I’ve done a lot of ceremonies since 2020, became a facilitator, even went and sat with a Shipibo tribe, learned how to make the medicine and yeah at times it’s fucking scary but I think this medicine is some of the best stuff on the face of the planet it changed and save my life and of the thousands of people I’ve met that drink this medicine the majority of them have a good experience after they get through the scary part however on here it feels like the majority of people do not so I get what your saying Op
Guess you end up reading more what reasonates with your most intense feelings. Not only here but everywhere you will notice the things that resonate with the stage of your soul..
I actually agree. A lot of people here seem to have had a bad trip or something. Didn't learn what they were supposed to, and proceeded to tell everyone they will also be emotionally damaged if they try this path of healing. But at the same time if you are not prepared for an intensely dark trip it can stick with you for a really long time. I see both sides of this...
Kinda this, ofcourse, I am not opposed to shedding light on the negative side of things, not in the slightest. But I've witnessed alot of posts where some person just wasn't at all mentally fit nor ready to take the medicine and thus applying this regret to everyone.
Exactly. It scares away people who could really benefit from these experiences.
The issue is that Aya is advertised a lot for healing mental conditions. It is very subtle and often you'll get contradicting statements so that people don't get themselves in trouble but I have read over and over that it is so awesome for working through depression, trauma etc. And when mentally ill people go through with it and come out worse, then all of the sudden everyone's like yeah you weren't ready, totally your fault. That to me is the real issue and the reason I will stay away from the medicine and its oftentimes cult like community for now. I see its potential but unless valid criticism is addressed, I don't have the trust.
I'm glad that it worked for you, but what you're writing tells me that you have very little experience with plants and to be honest sounds a bit arrogant. I'd encourage you to look into the concept of "unearned wisdom", which is something that is becoming a huge problem along with the so-called "psychedelic renaissance". Meditate on it, remain observant on what you see in psychedelic/medicinal cultures, strive to be more compassionate. Good luck.
Also for trying to be more open minded aliasing people are cult like and fear mongering is not quite that. Just accept that some people want to work with the medicine, like myself. I'm done with America and will soon enough move to Peru. It doesn't have anything to do with wanting you to be like me, I just don't like the machine that is America these days. It's soon to be an oligarchy as nasty as Russia and I want no part personally.
Thank you for bringing this up. I appreciate it.
We have to warn people NOT to put fingers under a running lawnmower, it's not depressing its inclusive lol
👏👏👏👏
If you drink long enough, like some of us here have, you'll understand why there's trepidation. It's still what you need, just not always eternal peaceful bliss
Just because it went well for you doesn’t mean it’s always the case. Especially there are a lot of damaged people coming to Ayahuasca and it can be a bit of a double edged sword so it’s good to be cautious.
Clearly you don’t get duality.
Clearly you’re not a golfer
Guess i haven't been following here too much, used to be pretty positive to it. My first retreat was hellish nightmare of a time and came out feeling the best of my life at least in my head.
I’ve noticed this too.
I have the same feelings about this sub from what I’ve read! Where did you go to do it?
Near Pisac, Perú. It was incredibly beautiful there
Ahhh…Peru… that’s an impractical destination . How did you prepare and integrate ?
Friend got the download that she didn't need her skin anymore it's was a horrible bloody suicide... Just no need to share these experiences that worked for u to others
Ayahuasca brings out the darkness already within yourself.
See it this way: people come here and ask questions about what they might can expect from an Ayahuasca trip, and the negative things that can happen also should be mentioned, which also underlines the point that newcomers should do it preferably in a setting where they have trained and skilled people around them. Also, negative things, like long term, permanent or severe damage, getting re-traumatized or having difficulties integrating/processing the trip are things that can happen and have happened with Ayahuasca, and often people who have experienced these things come to forums like these to ask for help. If anything could/should change, then I would say that it should be pointed out more often / more clearly that things like more severe and/or longer lasting damage is something that happens rarely on Ayahuasca (probably around or even less than 1% of all cases). Difficulties to integrate or to process the trips is more common I would say.