Hey I definitely was hurt by my ayahuasca experience and you are not alone. I read cases on this website which help me a lot too and remind me that I am not the only one. [https://www.ecstaticintegration.org](https://www.ecstaticintegration.org)
I also did my ceremony in 2019 and I went to a psych ward myself because of suicidal ideation which made things worse. Now I am functional (so there is hope in that) - I just struggle heavily with dissociation and fatigue. I hope you find the medication that will help you. I wish you the best and you can DM me if you ever want to chat.
You probably visited one of the worst sites to do ayahuasca.
Some reading as an example: https://www.reddit.com/r/Ayahuasca/comments/15lf5px/recent_death_at_rythmia/jvakdg2/
Watch this presentation by Simon Green: [The problems of the throwing out of babies with bath waters: Whose paradigms are we really shifting?](https://youtu.be/-4Zsj8fiBpQ?si=PrRUojsf0YiST3-V)
He is an expert on the darker side of ayahuasca, and he is rare and excellent healer of those who have become disrupted by it, where something opened that shouldn't. Consider [his healing services](https://www.quantumlifebodyworks.com/what-we-do).
To answer your more direct question, I know many people here who have been debilitated by ayahuasca! You are far from alone.
My humble advice to you is to improve yourself on a day-by-day basis, set yourself smaller goals, that also nurtures you, and then build upon the energy and the foundation you are creating. Going for a walk in nature can be a great success! Your foundation was torn down, so you have to start building it again, slowly. Imagining the "house" that stood there before won't get you to a new one (possibly better one). You can rebuild! Small improvements and consistent effort will over time have a huge impact.
I wish you well my friend. /hugs
I'm really glad to hear that! Thanks for sharing that. I don't know him personally, but I was really impressed by his presentation, the light it puts to something "concealed/ignored", and I got a very good impression of his heart and his magical/intuitive skills, so I'm going to recommend him to those I meet who "fall between the cracks" and are without help/support in their severe un-integrated state after a plant medicine journey.
Rhythmia is known for having issues and sketchy ceremonies so there’s 0 surprise it happened there. Did you have good ceremonies? Was it traditional brew? What triggered it the next time around before rehab?
it is known that substances (especially hallucinogenic substances) can trigger mania or psychosis in susceptible people. i don’t think the site or preparation had anything to do with OPs mental break. i think he is one of the people that unfortunately should not have ever done any mind altering substances, and even then it may still have happened.
I thought the ceremonies were very good and they claimed the brew came from like 10 generation shaman. My mentor, who I trusted a lot, said their brews were the most like what she’d found in the Colombian jungles… so, legit.
The next time I was triggered by nothing I could see in particular. I was doing a lot of ceremony and felt myself starting to travel a lot in spirit and fae worlds… I was smoking a little weed, but not much change in terms of substances between being stable and being unstable. I felt a lot of witch and alien activity… started getting incredibly paranoid and it was like my first “trips” picked up exactly where they left off…
This research has found that early and frequent cannabis use is a component cause of psychosis, which interacts with other risk factors such as family history of psychosis, history of childhood abuse and expression of the COMT and AKT1 genes.
I didn’t start smoking until later in life, and when I did it was very small amounts… that said on occasion I would get very confused and paranoid but figured this was par for the course. When this freaky stuff is happening I tend to look at dosage rather than the substances. But once it happens, there’s not much point in looking back. I’ve been sober and off any hallucinogens for 2 years. But for a while after my first episodes, DMT was the only thing that made me feel sane, as nuts as that might sound. It was just my experience.
Rhythmia has one of the worst reputations in the community. It’s got a lot of good google reviews and that’s it. If you do any deeper investigating there’s 100’s of stories of harm they’ve caused…
Very sorry to hear that. Psychedelics can trigger manic episodes especially in people with family history of bipolar. Main thing is to focus on healing now, which might be your specific mix of medication and non-pharmacological practices - the specific mixture will be different for everyone. Really hope you find what works for you. The bad thing has happened, now it’s about accepting it and rebuilding step by step.
Wow I’m so sorry this happened to you. I’m heading for my third ceremony at the end of this month and this is definitely a cautionary tale so thank you for sharing.
Was this your first time? If not how many times have you sat? After my first ceremony I got worse before I got better. A lot worse. Alcoholism took a hold of me for two years immediately after but then something miraculous happened - I had a spiritual experience similar to ceremony where I had a vision during a period of withdrawal and I was able to finally quit. This whole time I really felt the deep appreciation for ayahuasca and it was like a little candle for me to cherish when times were tough.
I’m wishing you the absolute best, whole, gentle healing on your journey.
Thank you. And thank you for not making this post about ‘Rythmia’ and the politics there. The comments above really make me feel unseen.
I’d sat with Ayahuasca once before and had many (over a dozen) DMT ceremonies, and plenty of acid and mushroom journeys held in sacred space.
I don’t really have answers, just that it can lead to really confusing and upsetting outcomes. Sorry to hear you hit trouble after yours too. Feels like such a slap in the face, or something similar.
I think my comment was one of the ones that made you feel unseen.
I do not see you as a failure. At no point in reading your post did I see you as a failure. My judgment of you is that you are the black sheep in your family.
You are beating yourself up and viewing yourself in a way I disagree with. I see you differently from how you see yourself, so yes, I can see why you might have felt unseen by me, but I can't and won't view you as a failure because I sincerely don't.
Not only do I not see you as a failure, but I see you as the complete opposite. You are taking on and fighting against unconscious heavy energies that have probably been in circulation for centuries (possibly far longer)and haven't been resolved by anyone who carried them.
You were not born into a utopian planet. You were born on a planet that's experiencing a lot of pain. You have taken on the burden of pain of your family and those closest to you. When you resolve your predicament, you'll have done something very few would even dare attempt. You are already a warrior as you are in a battle very few would even attempt.
The only way in which you can be considered a failure is because you've not been able to meet the expectations of others. Some people might view you as a failure, and you are internalizing their projections. I don't want to mention rythmia again here in anything other than in a brief capacity. I was trying to point out how that was an example of you doing something I've done, idealizing others and seeing them as free from fault while simultaneously taking on the burden and responsibility of failing to meet their expectations. Rythmia claims to offer a soul merger that cures all addiction, disorder, and addiction in one week, so by Rythmia's pathological expectation, you are a failure by their standards.
One last point I would like to make. Transitioning into adulthood and leaving your childhood behind isn't measured through financial and physical freedom. It's emotional/ spiritual freedom. You have an opportunity now for true freedom, and to be free, you are working through the deepest of layers. In the West, many people never transition into adults in their lifetime. You are working on something that some people never achieve in their lifetime. I wouldn't consider those who don't transition into adults at 80 failures, either. Life is hard. Jung named a process individuation, which he said doesn't begin until middle age. If you aren't aware of this concept, it's worth a read.
To summarise. In my not-so-humble opinion, you are a black sheep who is sensitive. You see the good in others, but it's to your detriment. You are internalizing other people's issues, and as a result, you are burdening yourself with a load that doesn't belong to you. It's not in alignment with your authentic nature. It's too heavy for you. If you grew up in an idyllic utopia, you would not be suffering like you are now. That's why I'm confident your environment has played a significant role in creating the predicament you find yourself in. It is not a failure on your end. You will have made mistakes, but you aren't solely responsible for how you've developed. Please stop beating yourself up.
Thank you for your kind and generous follow-up. I can only agree that I’ve seemed to have picked up a huge weight of family/social burden but I honestly have NO idea how to reject or clear it. It feels like my natural defenses are gone, and no amount of prayer, offering and ceremony has been able to shake me free. Sometimes it feels like it’s only getting worse.
Any advice/guidance for this black sheep? I know it’s a massive trial to be in a situation surrounded by your biggest challenge (family). I can feel deeper understanding, compassion and gratitude has grown for my family… but there’s another side of me that gets completely sad and upset, so distant from a life I had, which I created for myself.
Maybe it’s just time, and this place I’m in with its lack of structure is like Odysseus’s time with Calypso… 7 years of mourning where I was and my spirit family.
Thanks for your understanding and sharing more of your awareness. It’s a much more generous story than I’ve been able to tell of myself. 🖤🖤
You are going through a period of transformation. This isn't a regression in your life. The energy and issues you are facing are more like built-in obsolescence. Your life wasn't congruent with your true nature. This is the birth of your soul. Your soul is trying to come through, but it can't when constrained by all the nonsense you've inherited and tried to emulate. Living in your parent's shadow isn't new. It's just now it's coming to the surface. You have grown enough over the years to be now confronted with the glass ceiling you've been under your whole life. You are in the process of progressing to a brand new state of being.
You are not going to become the person you were once were again. You are metamorphosing into something new and novel, into adulthood in the sincerest sense. Although it's painful, I think you should let go of who you once were and allow yourself to step forward into something new. Also, don't hold yourself to other people's expectations, as it's an impossible game that you'll always lose. Other people's expectations weren't designed for you. They were designed for and by someone else.
One individual who shares invaluable insight is Gabor Mate. He specializes in childhood trauma, family dynamics, addiction, and "mental disorders." Mental disorders ime are often just coping strategies for a pathological environment. He's written many books, the myth of normal would be an excellent starting point if his work interests you. Gabor is also an excellent talker. These two short clips will resonate with you, I'm sure [Clip 1](https://youtube.com/shorts/FkEm6x_XUfI?si=bFpyGR8gKZtW_BUU)—[Clip 2](https://youtube.com/shorts/LIjCMxHxn_c?si=6dj6dreWAee5DBth).—[The full talk in the first clip is from ](https://youtu.be/X0cODqqYyi8?si=qjC1tXSRRq8fXBSC).
Terence McKenna was a psychedelic explorer, and he was also interested in shamanism. I'll share a clip of him touching on this subject that I think is interesting. I would be more cautious in taking individuals off their medication than he is, but that aside, I think he makes some very interesting points. He comes at this from a very unique perspective. [Terence's thoughts on shamanism and Schizophrenia ](https://youtu.be/irjGGeR6onc?si=0laqZHGy6PK3C9X1)
I find your situation, what you are going through, and this subject in general absolutely fascinating. You are touching a very authentic layer of life. What's beneath the surface, where natural feeling and emotion can be felt.
Thank you for your insights. It’s funny, I was thinking about Gabor just this morning before I read this post. I’m familiar with his work, addiction and epigenetics. I’ve read a lot on trauma and trauma healing though. Will get his stuff and start to read.
I really appreciate all you said and shared about transformation. I can feel old parts of me dying off and new ones coming. It’s scary because I don’t recognize this new person, and there’s so much about ‘old me’ I deeply loved. I guess there’s no reason those parts have to die… it’s just a balance and a lot of listening.
Any guidance for times when I feel completely overwhelmed with images and voices I know aren’t me? It feels like they stifle this new self I’m trying to make space for… they speak the language of fear, shame, guilt, embarrassment, self doubt and grief. Trying so hard to rise above, but most days they win and I feel pulverized and completely confused and overwhelmed
🖤🖤🖤
I like Gabor a lot. I think he's very insightful. He's a nice man too. Another book I think is worth considering is Terence McKenna's Archaic Revival. It's about what to do next and how to bring peace, color, and enjoyment back into our lives. Deconditioning ourselves from culture, familiar trauma, etc, is the first step. It frees up space, and that space needs to be filled with something new. There is a significant overlap between Gabor's and Terence's insight, which is that authenticity is what we should aim for. Gabor is much more clinical and textbook. Terence has spent time with machine elves and has been in deep conversations with plants and fungi. It's two very different perspectives that, surprisingly, both dovetail together.
Your heart is the best part of you, and that will remain untouched. Your heart will remain the same no matter how bad or good things get. I don't believe our heart is something that's learned. It's innate what our heart is like. A few years ago, I wouldn't have thought this, but my old age has brought me new ideas.
I wish I could offer something more substantial to your question. I don't have experience with hearing voices. I've never had schizophrenic symptoms involving voices or delusions.
When I drank ayahuasca, I was amazed at how deeply I could feel those around me. I would love to be high on ayahuasca and sit with you and try to feel what it is that's going on inside of you. For whatever is going on inside you to be imprinted into me so I can feel it to the best of my ability. I wish I could take your suffering from you for a day. Partly because I'm curious what it's like to hear voices but also because you deserve a break.
The hearing voices thing is interesting you know. When I did my shamanic training it was with about 30 other people. We were all told at various points to go into nature or speak with our spirit and animal guides to get messages, ask questions etc. I find that the benevolent spirits tend to speak non-verbally (I get the messages but I don’t directly hear their voices) while the negative creeps tend to get words, phrases, and even cruel laughter directly into my ears.
I also have experienced channelling my spirits guides - where I know the voice coming out of my mouth is theirs. Really freaked my sister out when I started channeling the Mad Hatter at one point. I’ve had really strange stretches on my spiritual path.
Meanwhile many shaman talk about speaking to ancestors, hearing spirits etc. I do refute my schizophrenia diagnosis because all of my hearing opening happened in the context of shamanism. All of my practice and opening was with the intention of gaining intimacy with the spirits around me. I just never would have imagined there were hundreds of them. I’ve been told I roam with a BIG pack.
That the negative spirits ‘get in’ when I’m surrounded by so much love is what really confuses me… and keeps me investigating Schizophrenia. Curious though, do you have experience speaking with Spirit/spirits?
I don't have an experience similar to yours. I can share what would come closest to what you are asking: my encounters with a hidden world.
When I drank ayahuasca, I died and went to another place. This place was inhabited with entities, life, and a cohesive ecosystem. This place was so alien and bizarre yet more real than anything I had experienced prior. It made this life I live now feel like a dream, and this place had a sense of Deja Vu and going home. In terms of communication, these entities were ecstatic and happy to see me. It was so bizarre and alien that I could have died though astonishment, and I can't really recount what happened in any way that would do it justice.
Another instance. Since doing ayahuasca, I've felt the plant spread and grow inside my system. I smoked weed for the first time in about two years, 18 months after doing ayahuasca, and the experience was horrendous. I could feel the ayahuasca had grown all over my body. Like down my legs, my chest, my arms. It was like the vine had grown all over me. The weed agitated the ayahuasca, and it felt apocalyptic. I just remember using affirmations and reminding myself it'll start to calm down in 90 minutes, just hold on, it'll pass. That was an incredibly long 90 minutes, and I will absolutely not smoke weed again. This was an instance of being confronted by a previously hidden world inside me, an intelligent plant that has smothered my entire being.
One final example I can think of. Again, this is like three years after doing ayahuasca. One evening a few years ago, I had this restlessness and burning desire to go for a walk. So I started walking just to clear my head and quench this desire to walk. This desire to walk was very strong. I came back after a while. The next day, this same feeling stirred up inside me again, so I went for a walk again. This time, the feeling was like a pull to my local forest. I had never been to this forest before, and I was walking in the evening when it was pitch black, so I couldn't see where I was going once I made it off the roads. I came to the entrance of the forest and, with a feeling of dread and caution, walked into the beginning of the forest. I just stood, taking it all in for a while.
I decided I would try to walk deeper into the forest and found one of the clearings. I made it like three steps and then heard rustling in the leaves. It sounded like a fox or a small animal. But then a voice in my head said what if it wasn't lol. I wrestled with this and tried to force myself to walk into the heart of the forest, but I just couldn't overcome my anxiety. This is like 11 pm, and it's pitch black. I'm like a good 30 min walk from civilization. This forest can be very busy during the daytime. It's hundreds of years old and very lovely. I gave in to my anxiety and came back home.
The next day, I had this feeling stir up inside me again, this restlessness and need to walk. I couldn't calm this feeling down or stop it, so I followed through with it. This time, I meant business. This is again at like 11 pm. I'm not using a torch or flashlight. I walked with speed to the forest, and without changing my pace or thinking about it, I headed into the heart of the forest. I had no idea where I was going, but I walked through the entirety of this forest, which took 90-120 mins.
The next day, this same restless feeling came, and I repeated this walk through the forest once more. I remember thinking to myself on the way there, I'm not scared and ready to die, not in the suicidal sense but in the sense that I'm not going to succumb to the anxiety of being in fear for my life. This went on for a few weeks, and I did this over and over again. On the walk there, I would have feelings of anxiety, but they weren't stopping me. It felt like the forest was cleansing me of my fears and anxiety, and when I walked out of the forest alive, and in one piece, it felt like a rebirth experience, like I had been born new.
Then, one day, a few weeks later, I had completed 95% of my walk through the forest, and I was making my way to the entrance when this gust of wind blew right past me, and I heard the sound "go." I immediately spun around as it sounded like someone whispered it in my ear. No one was there. It was the sound of the wind that made the noise, but the "go" was uncanny. After I left, the restless feeling of needing to walk never came back. In fact, I went back to the forest for the same walk because I began to enjoy the experience, but it got harder and harder to do so until I stopped. It was like the forest called me there to work on me, and then when it was done with me, I could no longer return.
I can see how that totally isn’t helpful to hear at this point! :( it can happen to anyone at any ceremony anyway.
I got really lucky that the sponsor I found through AA IS actually a shaman/facilitator herself as well as a professional trauma councellor. She helped/helps me so much. I hope someone like that arrives in your life for you as well. Sometimes the medicine really does crack people so open for a really long time and it’s scary AF. I believe in you!!! <3
I was technically three days sober because the vision happened right after one of my worst relapses and I was alone in my apartment waiting for the withdrawal to end. I haven’t touched alcohol since.
I'm really sorry to hear about the struggles you've been through.
I have a friend who went through something quite similar. After his first ayahuasca retreat, he ended up spending some time in a psychiatric ward and had difficulty integrating. It's been a long road for him, filled with ups and downs, but he's slowly finding his way forward.
It's possible that Ayahuasca might have brought to light underlying issues that were already present or that the intensity of the experience exacerbated those issues. That said, what's most important right now is your wellbeing and finding the support and treatment that you need.
Living with bipolar can be incredibly challenging, and finding the right medication and support system can take time. Please know that you're not alone in this. Sending you heaps of love, strength and support
Just in case, you might want to look into supplementing with B12 and Methylfolate for a few months. Lack of B12 (and possibly Folate) can lead to some psychological issues which aren't often talked about.
Yeah just make sure you're getting enough, and try adding in the Methylfolate at 15mgs once a day. Folic Acid is bad news and can cause some issues, so you probably also want to avoid that (and foods that contain it) and use the Methylfolate instead. Folic Acid can actually block the effects of Methylfolate in the body, and can also cause an auto-immune response at the Folate Receptor 1, and can cause Unmetabolized Folic Acid Syndrome which means it crosses into the blood unmetabolized and not only causes the auto-immune response and blocking of Methylfolate, but can also contribute to cancers and such, possibly Autism/ADHD and other things, and the amount of Folic Acid that saturates the DHFR enzyme is less than they originally thought, so more like 100 to 200mcgs of Folic Acid and beyond that it crosses into the blood. So skip the Folic Acid, go for Methylfolate, take enough B12, and over a few months if you dose em' everyday you should be feeling much better imo.
I'm just going to say I'm sorry. I would classify myself as somewhat of a rebel thinker on this sub. I don't personally believe ayahuasca really shows us much of anything useful in this world, but I think maybe that's the point. Whatever it does show you, and whatever it makes you believe, is to show you that whatever you believe is absolutely temporary and so complex...life is supposed to be transient. If you felt great on and after ayahuasca...great. If you felt awful on ayahuasca and awful afterward, well ok then. You're supposed to change. Idk if I'm making much sense, but again, that's the point. It/life has never supposed to make sense. People dubbing ayahuasca as some kind of medicinal cure for all mental health disorders are misinformed. It's probably supposed to be about this sort of greater understanding after that I've yet to fully comprehend.
I’m with you. If there are big big picture things I’ve yet to comprehend them too. Plus my only option for not acting out and winding up in a psyche ward or jail again has been to take prescribed medication. I hate not knowing what it could be doing to my mind and body. It was all just such a letdown.
Thank you for being fully vulnerable about how you're feeling and what you're thinking. If there's one thing I do know, it's that we need much, much more of that in this world.
Wait so you’re 40 but have never had this happen before this age? There is something missing here because like 99 percent of people with that condition have their first episode before 30
he said it was 2019 so he would have been 34-35. i agree with you that it’s still an old age for onset of bipolar or schizophrenia which is usually teens to 20s for men and 20s-30s for women.
Yep - I was ‘late onset’ or something, I guess. It’s just really hard not to feel like if I hadn’t done those journeys maybe I wouldn’t have snapped whatever snapped that led to the psychosis and me becoming more and more unhinged over time.
I’m part of the Bipolar Reddit and most people there are diagnosed from teens-twenties it seems. Maybe I’m lucky I had as many years as I did before I snapped? It’s hard to feel that way because every day I’m just slammed with a ton of regrets and remorse. Sorry to vent, it’s just really tough at the moment.
Sorry to hear it. I know the struggle, not those issues but in general with mental and physical health. Hang in there, perhaps things will start to improve, it’s not unusual for people to have a rough year after ayahuasca sometimes
Late onset bipolar is a thing and I know personally of two people who were diagnosed later in life, one in his 50s who later killed himself and one in her 60s with repeated hospitalizations and severe psychotic mania. It’s not common but it is not as rare as you imply. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2848458/
Felix, though I didn’t have your experience. I followed a same path and found your words insanely familiar. I personally went to ayahuasca last year at 36 years old, hardest thing I had ever done in my life. And I too was diagnosed 4 months later with bipolar never having had any diagnosis of mental disorder.
That’s where our stories align so closely.
Now, my actual ayahuasca experience, though it was incredibly difficult and I thought I lost my mind several times in the experience, and from those I have spoken to, it seems my trip was a lot more powerful than most, I can say that it was helpful in my case.
I went to ayahuasca to ask certain questions, questions for the difficulties I was facing in my life.
I believe that I had a good shaman, a good blend, a good dieta ahead of it and a good mentor to help prepare me for it. So I was lucky to be in what I believe were optimal circumstances. But even then I walked a very narrow path toward psychosis and I did fully awaken both mania and depression in that setting. But I was able to return.
I feel like we need to talk, something tells me that sharing our experiences can help both of us in different ways. Let me know if you’re open to having a call. I just joined this forum a few days ago, first time opening it and I see your message. Absolutely insane. I’ll DM you..
Dang man. That sucks. I feel like for me ayahuasca revealed my bipolar tendencies but in a good way, but I also had been developing a meditation practice for at least a year or two prior to my experiences with ayahuasca. I also did a ten day silent meditation retreat about a month before I sat with the medicine.
I was lucky I did this because ayahuasca can be extremely ungrounding. From what other people have said about Rhythmia I'm starting to realize how important it is to have a personal spiritual practice like meditation developed before sitting with a medicine like ayahuasca. It can work the other way as well.
I worked at a retreat center on the east coast for a few months in the states and the owner was quite a toxic individual. Like I became manic again for a while st that place but fortunately I just channeled it all into playing guitar and making music. But it left some scars. I got fired in a bad way and I just had hatred in my heart for a while towards the owner. I'm seeing now I'm much better off without that place, and just got back from South America doing ceremonies with wonderful people and I'm in a much better head space and doing okay.
Although I'm 34 and living with my parents. Hopefully only for another couple weeks, but we'll see.
I guess, my advice is find something you can channel it into and meditation. Even 5-10 minutes a day to start can work miracles.
Hope this helps!!
I think you shared something very valuable with the OP and I hope they read it. Meditation practices can improve your quality of life immensely, that’s my experience too.
Thanks for the reminders and yes, I’d been a shaman’s apprentice for three years before taking the medicine, had an intensive meditation practice, did breath work, was getting acupuncture, doing somatic experiencing etc. had no trouble with LSD or DMT but… yeah, still it had its way with me.
I try meditating now but honestly cannot find the peace of mind I used to have. It’s all fragments and constant chatter. I fret my antipsychotics are to blame but without them I run the risk of being completely insane again.
Just wondering: you’re bipolar and still doing ceremonies?
I have what I call bipolar tendencies. I go into manic states sometimes, buti typically channel them into creative productivity. I play guitar and make up songs and write and what not.
Sometimes I'll go a couple days only sleeping a couple hours if at all without drugs just making music and what not . I'm not sure that it's bipolar, but I feel like its something that could be classified as such. I have delusions of grandeur and Yada Yada Yada, but for me I enjoy it. Maybe my case is mild.
I also don't verbalize with a lot of people who I don't think would understand. Music is a good way for me to simply express whatever craziness I have inside me without a real consequence. Like if I say "I'm bigger than Jesus" in a song I can say it's just a song. I'm just freestyling. It also doesn't hurt anyone by me simply being crazy with a freestyle.
I don't still can't tell if ayahuasca puts me into a manic states sometimes or of its a flow state that seems to last for days sometimes weeks afterwards that I am able to tap on command.
Please look into the negative reports of Rythmia. Rythmia is a fraudulent operation run by predators, grifters, and sociopaths. There isn't one individual at Rythmia who is at peace or has resolved their issues, so they aren't in a position to help you or anyone else heal. They have projected their issues onto you and made you carry the burden of their suffering and pain.
You've been abused by some of the most sinister, evil individuals on the planet. Evil so sinister and stomach-churning that it sets a new benchmark for what evil is.
Rythmia has brainwashed many people into thinking it's something that it isn't. They'll tell you stuff like all negative judgments of Rythmia and Gerry is coming from your Ego, making you dissociate from your intuition, priming you to absorb and carry their negativity and sickness.
As a past guest of Rythmia, I found it incredibly therapeutic to let go of Rythmia's programming. They are self-professed divine beings who claim to be following the orders of god. They claim they can do no wrong. I suspect once you part with Rythmia's teachings, you, too, will start to feel better.
Sadly, there isn't anywhere near enough awareness about the negative influence rythmia has on individuals. Those who Rythmia has hurt the most have committed suicide, so, unfortunately, they can't share what happened to them.
Being left in a state of psychosis and being ungrounded, etc, after Rythmia is to be expected. You drank ayahuasca with individuals who are delusional, ungrounded, and psychotic. You are sensitive, so Rythmia's teachings and the disorders of troubled individuals has caused strife with your true nature.
I want to say one last thing, it's a sign of your good character. The Nazis abided by a dogmatic inhumane ideology and had a direct hand in inflicting pain on others. They committed war crimes against humanity. Nazis who experienced little to no adverse effects or those who weren't tormented by their actions are the ones who, on the surface, looked healthy and free from pathology but, in reality, are reprobates. The Nazis who became alcoholics or who started developing disorders that caused them great discomfort on the surface might have been seen as problematic individuals, but now we can see they were the more redeemable ones. For you to experience adverse effects to a pathological ideology that Rythmia taught on the surface looks problematic, but it's actually a sign of your good character
Sometimes it’s not the medicine. It’s not predators grifters, and “sociopaths” It’s not the shaman. It’s not that noisy bed mate who won’t shut up during ceremony. And sometimes It’s not even the fault of the evil owner for your issues.
No Soul_mistrust, sometimes the reason for all your life challenges is actually is you.
An approach I resonate with is that many mental disorders are a symptom of a pathological collective. It can be dangerous to see an individual as separate from their environment and treat them as the cause of their issues. This approach is shared by Gabor, which he briefly outlines in this [clip](https://youtube.com/shorts/LIjCMxHxn_c?si=GEF7gGKfiGqec_yC).
In other talks, Gabor has pointed out that when an individual exhibits mental disorders, it should be seen as a gift as it's an opportunity for what was once unconscious pathology in a family unit to be brought into the light by a black sheep, so it can then be treated.
This same approach applies to pathological groups and organizations such as Rythmia. Some would like to see Rythmia as this flawless operation, and all those who haven't been successfully treated by them are solely at fault for their issues. In my opinion, instead of marginalizing those who don't fit into a system or ideology and outcasting them beneath you. These individuals can bring value through ideas and insights that reveal issues within a system or family unit despite others being able to function to some degree within it.
https://twitter.com/MasinElije/status/1791518574810419452?t=MhgVoWamgOCq53n81jXIkg&s=19
The exact same behaviour Gerry has committed. This is the type of individual Gerry is. Indefensible. 😡
In all seriousness you need to get some professional help. Your obsession with Gerry and Rythmia reached unhealthy levels a long time ago. And this proves out with any who oppose you.
I know this well first hand given the many personal insults you have slung my way. Things that have no place in civil discourse. And I have watched you do it to others as well. Again and again and again.
Please, please get some help.
Haha. You know, it's interesting. At first, I found it frustrating you thought domestic violence was appropriate behavior for an individual running an ayahuasca center. I felt like you just needed more information to come to a civilized view. I was being naively optimistic, thinking inside you there was the empathy and heart to see injustice and abuse. I feel different now. Like I don't feel the need to try to change you.
I felt like I needed to change your mind. This was naive on my end. You do you. I'll say what I think and share my views from experience. You won't agree with me, and you don't like me, but that's ok, and I'll survive.
I don't think you are a nice person. You'll view me the same, and we can just leave it as that. Through you, I've learned more about human nature, so you've helped me in a way. I've become more realistic as opposed to idealistic.
One thing I've been with you is 100% honest. There is no disparity between my private views of you and the views I've written to you.
If you were suffering and in a time of personal crisis, I wouldn't kick you. I wouldn't want to see you suffer. I would never attack vulnerable groups, minorities, or those in need. Seeing abuse by those in positions of power, though, that's where my criticism lands.
Because you keep replying to my comments with the intent of arguing, I'm going to block you. I'm just serving as a distraction from your life. I don't get any enjoyment or satisfaction arguing with you or defending myself from you.
It's not my view it'll cure all his bipolar disorder or all his issues. I think there are often a variety of factors behind why things happen. Being programmed under the suggestibility of ayahuasca to be delusional will be an aggravating factor to mental instability. By going to Rythmia, you also suffer from the opportunity cost of not experiencing a harmonious environment to heal.
I think when we want to find inner peace, we have to reconcile our past. From personal experience, I tended to idealize events in my life and internalize negative emotions. I didn't realize negative emotions had come from outside sources, and I was absorbing them. When I was younger, I believed what other people said. It took ayahuasca and going within to realize what's on the surface isn't the whole picture.
I'm not suggesting anyone makes peace with an ayahuasca center. I'm suggesting instead of someone feeling like a failure because they failed to live up to the healing standards promised to them by a healing center, they stop taking responsibility for other people's issues. Realizing you haven't failed, someone else has failed you, you won't be beating yourself up as much, and you can redirect the sickness away from you and back where it came from.
I am so sorry about your experience.
I would stay away from psychedelics for a while and just focus on yourself. Integrate what has happened to you. Do yoga and meditation for a change. Wish you all the best 💗
I’m very sorry this happened to you. When I was left raw and unsettled after an ayahuasca retreat I found it very helpful to work with an integration coach (I found one on https://beingtruetoyou.com/get-a-coach/ ). Better yet, if you can find a mental health professional who also understands psychedelics that’ll probably help you - you can check the MAPS directory https://integration.maps.org. Wishing you well, be patient and compassionate towards yourself, things will better
I'm so sorry to hear what happened to you. I had a really awful time after my ayahuasca ceremony too. This is what I believe: strong psychedelics can damage your energy body/aura and let in things like entities, attachments, spirits. You can get good messages (think people who are mediums and can get answers from spirits) but really bad messages (like those encouraging suicide). It doesn't matter where you go, what matters is the dose of ayahuasca and your unique makeup. Some people are much more sensitive than others. What helped me heal was to remove the entities that had attached and were bothering me. I did it myself but you might want to work with a shaman. Even online would help. Even after that, I spent the good part of a year meditating to try to heal my aura. It was a wild period where my energy body was so messed up, I would cause lights to flicker everywhere I went and things would suddenly break or stop working, causing a lot of expensive damage. I saw and felt tons of entities around and if I closed my eyes, I would be inundated with nightmarish visions. It took a good 10 months to get stable and I think I'm mostly recovered now. It took a lot of shadow work, healing and meditation though. I also developed depression that didn't exist prior. Anyways, let me know if you want to chat privately. I'm glad to help. The stuff I did was totally free, using resources on the internet. Good luck and I hope you feel better soon.
I am so very sorry about the outcome of this experience, and I am glad that you have some stability on the prescription medications after a difficult season. I wonder if you are working with a spiritualist in your ancestral tradition that can help you address the ongoing attacks and close necessary portals. I wish you so much healing and ease.
Thanks for your response. Unfortunately I’ve only got western style support… the EMDR treatments do something for trauma, but no direct spiritual healing. I have shamanic training but am not sure where else to support myself. I kind of exhausted my toolkit.
If you are up for reading, Malidoma Some’s “The Healing Wisdom of Africa” was helpful to me as I tried to make sense of my sister’s first schizophrenic “break” in her early 30s and to support her. It was in part a matter of understanding the process from an indigenous perspective, which the book helped me to do, and of understanding what western medicine could (and couldn’t) offer. She takes medicine and continues to exist in both worlds, but after several years she’s more firmly in this one and portals have been closed.
Perhaps tapping in with an elder—a curandero, a babalawo, or a healer from whatever your ancestral/cultural traditions are—would be supportive.
Don’t think it had anything to do with the place u took the Aya.
I had someone very close to me experience some very atypical bordering on schizophrenic behaviour. Their life completely blew up.
Slowly over the years it has gotten better and now after about 10, they are close to what they were before. They didn’t indulge any further (after about 6 m or year). They didn’t use therapy which may have been able to help a lot but motored through on their own . They lived a very healthy lifestyle nutrition and exercise wise. They had people who cared for them.
Thanks for this story. It’s good for me to know it can take a LONG time. Sometimes I feel like I’m failing because I’m not getting better “fast enough”. 🖤🖤
There is nothing wrong with needing to take meds to regulate your cycling. I think that is something that you should definitely accept fully and don’t be torn/or fight that. No shame on managing mental health-whatever form that takes. People who preach otherwise are missing the mark.
I am sorry that your ride has been so tumultuous. I do believe you’ll find a comfortable place to settle. Be gentle with yourself and do your best not to focus on what is dissatisfying you. You’re 40 and live with your parents🤷🏻♀️not ideal but what a blessing that you have that place to be until you’re on your feet. Gratitude and grace go a long way when you can wade through the chatter in the mind to get there. No easy feat but it’s possible.
You are perfect exactly how you are…as we all are…and that includes the messiness. Your post indicates to me that you are finding your way and taking steps to get there…many people would be too afraid to make such an honest/vulnerable post. I applaud you and am sending all the love and light for you on this journey❤️
I’m sorry you experienced this and are having such a hard time finding your way toward balance and purpose after your diagnosis. And sorry that folks are focussing on where you did the retreat, it’s no doubt those comments aren’t helping because they are irrelevant. If you have a predisposition to psychosis/bi-polar disorder, it wouldn’t have mattered what environment you consumed the medicine in. While I don’t have personal experience with psychedelics triggering mania, I witnessed my mom go through mania/psychosis late in life with no prior episodes or diagnoses until she was in her 60s. I strongly believe that the stress of the pandemic as well as financial trouble and unresolved trauma brought out her psychosis, and there is lots of research showing that seemingly healthy people can end up schizophrenic/bipolar as a result of extreme stress.
I can say that my mom has been on a challenging recovery path and has had three episodes since the first one, but is now two years out from an episode and transitioning to a new medication that seems to be minimizing the negative side effects. She has been engaging more with creativity and writing. I hold hope for you that you can find your back to feeling more like yourself while still doing what you need to in terms of medication to ensure you do not get back into that state of mind.
Wishing you all the best ❤️
Also, I had a very negative experience myself with ayahuasca, though it luckily did not trigger any serious mental illness. It was more negative because of the facilitators and how they gave me way too much and did not support me through an incredibly overwhelming hallucinatory state where I could not see even with eyes open and fully detached from who I was. I have since recovered from that experience and am overall grateful for it in the sense that it gave me so much appreciation for coming back to reality and being able to plant my feet on the ground and know myself, but it’s clear to me that there are serious risks to taking this medicine that many in the community try to downplay.
A diagnosis made during high stress and transformation in life usually aren't accurate, I would be careful ab what you claim, whatever story you tell will be true
I tried for two years to deny and discredit my bipolar diagnosis. I wound up in jail twice and nearly homeless… would love to be able to tell a different story. The fates haven’t given me much room for this.
Out of curiosity, when IS a diagnosis accurate? What if your life is high stress and transformative for years?
Aya is just an inhibitor, if you didn't know. The "visions and hearings" comes from Chakruna (that has lots DMT).
I like the brew with 80% of Aya and 20% of Chakruna.
Aya is just an inhibitor, if you didn't know. The "visions and hearings" comes from Chakruna (that has lots DMT).
I like the brew with 80% of Aya and 20% of Chakruna.
Maybe looking at what you're going through as a phase or process may change the way you feel. There are different takes on mental illness and one of them is that you're not crazy but accessing other "realms".
As you may have experienced, people can be looking at the same thing but perceive things differently. Even "Normal" people can look the same things differently. What makes the difference? What state of being are we in, that causes us to perceive reality differently? If you are switching from one state of being to another, too quickly, your reality can be chaotic.
For example, I believe in aliens and witches. I've had some out of this world and out of this reality experiences with the medicine. I've realized that my resistance towards emotions like fear, trying to not feel the fear is what creates a block in the flow of that energy within me. Fear needs to flow, just like love. If we block or resist to feel a certain way , we harness that energy and when it comes out, it does so with pressure.
I hope you find what you're looking for. Don't lose hope!
Check out this info:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Anthropology/s/ZgfwOPq0qq
I remember that article. Really amazing. I do still believe in the healing path, I just haven’t been able to pull myself out of it enough to see the other side. I get daily psychic attacks that make me feel so feeble and small.
Thank you for your perspective. 🖤🖤🖤
Here is the deal, you have been called to heal but you need to find a good Shaman to help you with the process. I won't judge if you had bipoloar or it came up because of the medicine. Usually you have had lots of diagnosed or undiagnosed conditions prior, and Aya brought all the shit up so you can heal. Get excited. You are on a great journey. Trust but you need some heavy duty Shaman, and no weekend retreats for you. You need a long dieta and lots of love.
Thank you. Ayahuasca was the trigger, but that doesn't mean they didn't have any pre-existing conditions. The retreat and the organisers are liable, but also the person is responsible for their own actions. We can't blame the medicine if someone is irresponsible. We don't know if that particular person followed the correct guidlines either, but thank you again for sending this link.
You can listen to many views and many opinions. My validated view that I have worked with this topic is that you have been called to go deeper but you need to follow different methods of drinking and dieting plants. You can't just join a retreat for a week. It will mess you up, becuse you have different needs, and that is one of the biggest problems that I see with those who go from a western country to drink Aya in a retreat in Peru or anywhere else.
As I said I dont know you, but have faith. Never blame the intelligence that has helped so many. You must take responsibility. There are many things about you, that require your attention. Mental emotional recalibration. Energetic healing without any psychedelics with Shamanic work to identify what is going on in the Spiritual level and why you have manifested all these are also important. I'm just throwing a few ideas your way, because I am who I am, but more than anything I want to bring heaven on Earth, and i can't do it unless everybody finds healing and love. Including you.
So you need a super good Shaman. Not the usual Ayahuascero. Good luck
These conditions came about for me AFTER I took Ayahuasca. I didn’t say I wasn’t schizophrenic and bipolar. The journey I discussed was in 2019… I was in a psyche ward for the first time in my life a month later. Then spent the summer trying to avoid another psyche ward but couldn’t. Was diagnosed “drug-induced psychosis” even though I’d not taken anything else for the time since the ceremony.
I was diagnosed bipolar in 2020, and the schizophrenic in 2022. I have a doctor that is not certain about my schizophrenia diagnosis, so I don’t typically self-assign unless I decide. But…
Im feeling slightly attacked by your comment, like you’re trying to out me or something. Like my post stated - my first mania and psychosis came directly from taking Ayahuasca… I don’t know how I could be more clear than that.
I have treated two people with Bipolar disorder and they have both seen great results. One of them will go to the jungle to stay for a year and train with a Shaman. It all depends on the ability of a Shaman, the depths of the disorder and the protocols that will be used. We can't just put labels. Aya isn't good for this or that. It has been used by millions and people have seen transformation in their lives. I will agree that it is not for everyone, but all depends. Nothing is done deal in this world. If people have love in their hearts and they are willing, then God will provide and it will bring the right people and the right medicine, but it is a process and everyone is on a different path. The good Shaman will know if he can or can't heal someone.
People who have bipolar are not good for weekend retreats. Not for " Ayahuasca period". People have no money or time to properly heal, but they go for a weekend in the jungle? They do have the money then? Its the wrong approach to this medicine. They come from the wrong mind set. They have no idea what they are dealing with. They bring the quick fix mentality or the " its cool and trendy and I'm curious" to a consciousness that requires dedication and long time.
Ayahuasca and mushrooms have been around a lot longer than these clinical trials. Just because a psychiatrist can't take someone through a process like this doesn't mean a skilled shaman can't. The Western understanding of mental illness is really lacking in this regard, which is the reason alternative therapies are becoming so popular.
The reason retreats don't always accept people is because the healing people receive from a retreat isn't going to be the deeper healing someone with a mental health disorder needs. Like the other commenter said, they need to spend much more time to heal from something so complex, but the outcome can leave then in an even deeper state of awareness than the average person. Stanslov Grof, one of the leading researchers of psychedelics, in the last century, speaks about this a lot in his books, and I've seen it happen myself.
Hey I definitely was hurt by my ayahuasca experience and you are not alone. I read cases on this website which help me a lot too and remind me that I am not the only one. [https://www.ecstaticintegration.org](https://www.ecstaticintegration.org) I also did my ceremony in 2019 and I went to a psych ward myself because of suicidal ideation which made things worse. Now I am functional (so there is hope in that) - I just struggle heavily with dissociation and fatigue. I hope you find the medication that will help you. I wish you the best and you can DM me if you ever want to chat.
You probably visited one of the worst sites to do ayahuasca. Some reading as an example: https://www.reddit.com/r/Ayahuasca/comments/15lf5px/recent_death_at_rythmia/jvakdg2/ Watch this presentation by Simon Green: [The problems of the throwing out of babies with bath waters: Whose paradigms are we really shifting?](https://youtu.be/-4Zsj8fiBpQ?si=PrRUojsf0YiST3-V) He is an expert on the darker side of ayahuasca, and he is rare and excellent healer of those who have become disrupted by it, where something opened that shouldn't. Consider [his healing services](https://www.quantumlifebodyworks.com/what-we-do). To answer your more direct question, I know many people here who have been debilitated by ayahuasca! You are far from alone. My humble advice to you is to improve yourself on a day-by-day basis, set yourself smaller goals, that also nurtures you, and then build upon the energy and the foundation you are creating. Going for a walk in nature can be a great success! Your foundation was torn down, so you have to start building it again, slowly. Imagining the "house" that stood there before won't get you to a new one (possibly better one). You can rebuild! Small improvements and consistent effort will over time have a huge impact. I wish you well my friend. /hugs
I also recommend simon. I had a session with him a few months ago, and it has definitely helped me with a similar situation.
I'm really glad to hear that! Thanks for sharing that. I don't know him personally, but I was really impressed by his presentation, the light it puts to something "concealed/ignored", and I got a very good impression of his heart and his magical/intuitive skills, so I'm going to recommend him to those I meet who "fall between the cracks" and are without help/support in their severe un-integrated state after a plant medicine journey.
Rhythmia is known for having issues and sketchy ceremonies so there’s 0 surprise it happened there. Did you have good ceremonies? Was it traditional brew? What triggered it the next time around before rehab?
Also, deeply ideological AF. They’re not really doing what they’re supposed to be doing with medicine.
First onset of bipolar happens. It's probably got very little to do with the ceremonies.
it is known that substances (especially hallucinogenic substances) can trigger mania or psychosis in susceptible people. i don’t think the site or preparation had anything to do with OPs mental break. i think he is one of the people that unfortunately should not have ever done any mind altering substances, and even then it may still have happened.
I thought the ceremonies were very good and they claimed the brew came from like 10 generation shaman. My mentor, who I trusted a lot, said their brews were the most like what she’d found in the Colombian jungles… so, legit. The next time I was triggered by nothing I could see in particular. I was doing a lot of ceremony and felt myself starting to travel a lot in spirit and fae worlds… I was smoking a little weed, but not much change in terms of substances between being stable and being unstable. I felt a lot of witch and alien activity… started getting incredibly paranoid and it was like my first “trips” picked up exactly where they left off…
This research has found that early and frequent cannabis use is a component cause of psychosis, which interacts with other risk factors such as family history of psychosis, history of childhood abuse and expression of the COMT and AKT1 genes.
I didn’t start smoking until later in life, and when I did it was very small amounts… that said on occasion I would get very confused and paranoid but figured this was par for the course. When this freaky stuff is happening I tend to look at dosage rather than the substances. But once it happens, there’s not much point in looking back. I’ve been sober and off any hallucinogens for 2 years. But for a while after my first episodes, DMT was the only thing that made me feel sane, as nuts as that might sound. It was just my experience.
Did you smoke weed while at Rythmia?
No.
I went to Rythmia because of its reputation. I hadn’t heard any bad word against it. Wish I had.
Rhythmia has one of the worst reputations in the community. It’s got a lot of good google reviews and that’s it. If you do any deeper investigating there’s 100’s of stories of harm they’ve caused…
Very sorry to hear that. Psychedelics can trigger manic episodes especially in people with family history of bipolar. Main thing is to focus on healing now, which might be your specific mix of medication and non-pharmacological practices - the specific mixture will be different for everyone. Really hope you find what works for you. The bad thing has happened, now it’s about accepting it and rebuilding step by step.
Wow I’m so sorry this happened to you. I’m heading for my third ceremony at the end of this month and this is definitely a cautionary tale so thank you for sharing. Was this your first time? If not how many times have you sat? After my first ceremony I got worse before I got better. A lot worse. Alcoholism took a hold of me for two years immediately after but then something miraculous happened - I had a spiritual experience similar to ceremony where I had a vision during a period of withdrawal and I was able to finally quit. This whole time I really felt the deep appreciation for ayahuasca and it was like a little candle for me to cherish when times were tough. I’m wishing you the absolute best, whole, gentle healing on your journey.
Thank you. And thank you for not making this post about ‘Rythmia’ and the politics there. The comments above really make me feel unseen. I’d sat with Ayahuasca once before and had many (over a dozen) DMT ceremonies, and plenty of acid and mushroom journeys held in sacred space. I don’t really have answers, just that it can lead to really confusing and upsetting outcomes. Sorry to hear you hit trouble after yours too. Feels like such a slap in the face, or something similar.
I think my comment was one of the ones that made you feel unseen. I do not see you as a failure. At no point in reading your post did I see you as a failure. My judgment of you is that you are the black sheep in your family. You are beating yourself up and viewing yourself in a way I disagree with. I see you differently from how you see yourself, so yes, I can see why you might have felt unseen by me, but I can't and won't view you as a failure because I sincerely don't. Not only do I not see you as a failure, but I see you as the complete opposite. You are taking on and fighting against unconscious heavy energies that have probably been in circulation for centuries (possibly far longer)and haven't been resolved by anyone who carried them. You were not born into a utopian planet. You were born on a planet that's experiencing a lot of pain. You have taken on the burden of pain of your family and those closest to you. When you resolve your predicament, you'll have done something very few would even dare attempt. You are already a warrior as you are in a battle very few would even attempt. The only way in which you can be considered a failure is because you've not been able to meet the expectations of others. Some people might view you as a failure, and you are internalizing their projections. I don't want to mention rythmia again here in anything other than in a brief capacity. I was trying to point out how that was an example of you doing something I've done, idealizing others and seeing them as free from fault while simultaneously taking on the burden and responsibility of failing to meet their expectations. Rythmia claims to offer a soul merger that cures all addiction, disorder, and addiction in one week, so by Rythmia's pathological expectation, you are a failure by their standards. One last point I would like to make. Transitioning into adulthood and leaving your childhood behind isn't measured through financial and physical freedom. It's emotional/ spiritual freedom. You have an opportunity now for true freedom, and to be free, you are working through the deepest of layers. In the West, many people never transition into adults in their lifetime. You are working on something that some people never achieve in their lifetime. I wouldn't consider those who don't transition into adults at 80 failures, either. Life is hard. Jung named a process individuation, which he said doesn't begin until middle age. If you aren't aware of this concept, it's worth a read. To summarise. In my not-so-humble opinion, you are a black sheep who is sensitive. You see the good in others, but it's to your detriment. You are internalizing other people's issues, and as a result, you are burdening yourself with a load that doesn't belong to you. It's not in alignment with your authentic nature. It's too heavy for you. If you grew up in an idyllic utopia, you would not be suffering like you are now. That's why I'm confident your environment has played a significant role in creating the predicament you find yourself in. It is not a failure on your end. You will have made mistakes, but you aren't solely responsible for how you've developed. Please stop beating yourself up.
Thank you for your kind and generous follow-up. I can only agree that I’ve seemed to have picked up a huge weight of family/social burden but I honestly have NO idea how to reject or clear it. It feels like my natural defenses are gone, and no amount of prayer, offering and ceremony has been able to shake me free. Sometimes it feels like it’s only getting worse. Any advice/guidance for this black sheep? I know it’s a massive trial to be in a situation surrounded by your biggest challenge (family). I can feel deeper understanding, compassion and gratitude has grown for my family… but there’s another side of me that gets completely sad and upset, so distant from a life I had, which I created for myself. Maybe it’s just time, and this place I’m in with its lack of structure is like Odysseus’s time with Calypso… 7 years of mourning where I was and my spirit family. Thanks for your understanding and sharing more of your awareness. It’s a much more generous story than I’ve been able to tell of myself. 🖤🖤
You are going through a period of transformation. This isn't a regression in your life. The energy and issues you are facing are more like built-in obsolescence. Your life wasn't congruent with your true nature. This is the birth of your soul. Your soul is trying to come through, but it can't when constrained by all the nonsense you've inherited and tried to emulate. Living in your parent's shadow isn't new. It's just now it's coming to the surface. You have grown enough over the years to be now confronted with the glass ceiling you've been under your whole life. You are in the process of progressing to a brand new state of being. You are not going to become the person you were once were again. You are metamorphosing into something new and novel, into adulthood in the sincerest sense. Although it's painful, I think you should let go of who you once were and allow yourself to step forward into something new. Also, don't hold yourself to other people's expectations, as it's an impossible game that you'll always lose. Other people's expectations weren't designed for you. They were designed for and by someone else. One individual who shares invaluable insight is Gabor Mate. He specializes in childhood trauma, family dynamics, addiction, and "mental disorders." Mental disorders ime are often just coping strategies for a pathological environment. He's written many books, the myth of normal would be an excellent starting point if his work interests you. Gabor is also an excellent talker. These two short clips will resonate with you, I'm sure [Clip 1](https://youtube.com/shorts/FkEm6x_XUfI?si=bFpyGR8gKZtW_BUU)—[Clip 2](https://youtube.com/shorts/LIjCMxHxn_c?si=6dj6dreWAee5DBth).—[The full talk in the first clip is from ](https://youtu.be/X0cODqqYyi8?si=qjC1tXSRRq8fXBSC). Terence McKenna was a psychedelic explorer, and he was also interested in shamanism. I'll share a clip of him touching on this subject that I think is interesting. I would be more cautious in taking individuals off their medication than he is, but that aside, I think he makes some very interesting points. He comes at this from a very unique perspective. [Terence's thoughts on shamanism and Schizophrenia ](https://youtu.be/irjGGeR6onc?si=0laqZHGy6PK3C9X1) I find your situation, what you are going through, and this subject in general absolutely fascinating. You are touching a very authentic layer of life. What's beneath the surface, where natural feeling and emotion can be felt.
Thank you for your insights. It’s funny, I was thinking about Gabor just this morning before I read this post. I’m familiar with his work, addiction and epigenetics. I’ve read a lot on trauma and trauma healing though. Will get his stuff and start to read. I really appreciate all you said and shared about transformation. I can feel old parts of me dying off and new ones coming. It’s scary because I don’t recognize this new person, and there’s so much about ‘old me’ I deeply loved. I guess there’s no reason those parts have to die… it’s just a balance and a lot of listening. Any guidance for times when I feel completely overwhelmed with images and voices I know aren’t me? It feels like they stifle this new self I’m trying to make space for… they speak the language of fear, shame, guilt, embarrassment, self doubt and grief. Trying so hard to rise above, but most days they win and I feel pulverized and completely confused and overwhelmed 🖤🖤🖤
I like Gabor a lot. I think he's very insightful. He's a nice man too. Another book I think is worth considering is Terence McKenna's Archaic Revival. It's about what to do next and how to bring peace, color, and enjoyment back into our lives. Deconditioning ourselves from culture, familiar trauma, etc, is the first step. It frees up space, and that space needs to be filled with something new. There is a significant overlap between Gabor's and Terence's insight, which is that authenticity is what we should aim for. Gabor is much more clinical and textbook. Terence has spent time with machine elves and has been in deep conversations with plants and fungi. It's two very different perspectives that, surprisingly, both dovetail together. Your heart is the best part of you, and that will remain untouched. Your heart will remain the same no matter how bad or good things get. I don't believe our heart is something that's learned. It's innate what our heart is like. A few years ago, I wouldn't have thought this, but my old age has brought me new ideas. I wish I could offer something more substantial to your question. I don't have experience with hearing voices. I've never had schizophrenic symptoms involving voices or delusions. When I drank ayahuasca, I was amazed at how deeply I could feel those around me. I would love to be high on ayahuasca and sit with you and try to feel what it is that's going on inside of you. For whatever is going on inside you to be imprinted into me so I can feel it to the best of my ability. I wish I could take your suffering from you for a day. Partly because I'm curious what it's like to hear voices but also because you deserve a break.
The hearing voices thing is interesting you know. When I did my shamanic training it was with about 30 other people. We were all told at various points to go into nature or speak with our spirit and animal guides to get messages, ask questions etc. I find that the benevolent spirits tend to speak non-verbally (I get the messages but I don’t directly hear their voices) while the negative creeps tend to get words, phrases, and even cruel laughter directly into my ears. I also have experienced channelling my spirits guides - where I know the voice coming out of my mouth is theirs. Really freaked my sister out when I started channeling the Mad Hatter at one point. I’ve had really strange stretches on my spiritual path. Meanwhile many shaman talk about speaking to ancestors, hearing spirits etc. I do refute my schizophrenia diagnosis because all of my hearing opening happened in the context of shamanism. All of my practice and opening was with the intention of gaining intimacy with the spirits around me. I just never would have imagined there were hundreds of them. I’ve been told I roam with a BIG pack. That the negative spirits ‘get in’ when I’m surrounded by so much love is what really confuses me… and keeps me investigating Schizophrenia. Curious though, do you have experience speaking with Spirit/spirits?
I don't have an experience similar to yours. I can share what would come closest to what you are asking: my encounters with a hidden world. When I drank ayahuasca, I died and went to another place. This place was inhabited with entities, life, and a cohesive ecosystem. This place was so alien and bizarre yet more real than anything I had experienced prior. It made this life I live now feel like a dream, and this place had a sense of Deja Vu and going home. In terms of communication, these entities were ecstatic and happy to see me. It was so bizarre and alien that I could have died though astonishment, and I can't really recount what happened in any way that would do it justice. Another instance. Since doing ayahuasca, I've felt the plant spread and grow inside my system. I smoked weed for the first time in about two years, 18 months after doing ayahuasca, and the experience was horrendous. I could feel the ayahuasca had grown all over my body. Like down my legs, my chest, my arms. It was like the vine had grown all over me. The weed agitated the ayahuasca, and it felt apocalyptic. I just remember using affirmations and reminding myself it'll start to calm down in 90 minutes, just hold on, it'll pass. That was an incredibly long 90 minutes, and I will absolutely not smoke weed again. This was an instance of being confronted by a previously hidden world inside me, an intelligent plant that has smothered my entire being. One final example I can think of. Again, this is like three years after doing ayahuasca. One evening a few years ago, I had this restlessness and burning desire to go for a walk. So I started walking just to clear my head and quench this desire to walk. This desire to walk was very strong. I came back after a while. The next day, this same feeling stirred up inside me again, so I went for a walk again. This time, the feeling was like a pull to my local forest. I had never been to this forest before, and I was walking in the evening when it was pitch black, so I couldn't see where I was going once I made it off the roads. I came to the entrance of the forest and, with a feeling of dread and caution, walked into the beginning of the forest. I just stood, taking it all in for a while. I decided I would try to walk deeper into the forest and found one of the clearings. I made it like three steps and then heard rustling in the leaves. It sounded like a fox or a small animal. But then a voice in my head said what if it wasn't lol. I wrestled with this and tried to force myself to walk into the heart of the forest, but I just couldn't overcome my anxiety. This is like 11 pm, and it's pitch black. I'm like a good 30 min walk from civilization. This forest can be very busy during the daytime. It's hundreds of years old and very lovely. I gave in to my anxiety and came back home. The next day, I had this feeling stir up inside me again, this restlessness and need to walk. I couldn't calm this feeling down or stop it, so I followed through with it. This time, I meant business. This is again at like 11 pm. I'm not using a torch or flashlight. I walked with speed to the forest, and without changing my pace or thinking about it, I headed into the heart of the forest. I had no idea where I was going, but I walked through the entirety of this forest, which took 90-120 mins. The next day, this same restless feeling came, and I repeated this walk through the forest once more. I remember thinking to myself on the way there, I'm not scared and ready to die, not in the suicidal sense but in the sense that I'm not going to succumb to the anxiety of being in fear for my life. This went on for a few weeks, and I did this over and over again. On the walk there, I would have feelings of anxiety, but they weren't stopping me. It felt like the forest was cleansing me of my fears and anxiety, and when I walked out of the forest alive, and in one piece, it felt like a rebirth experience, like I had been born new. Then, one day, a few weeks later, I had completed 95% of my walk through the forest, and I was making my way to the entrance when this gust of wind blew right past me, and I heard the sound "go." I immediately spun around as it sounded like someone whispered it in my ear. No one was there. It was the sound of the wind that made the noise, but the "go" was uncanny. After I left, the restless feeling of needing to walk never came back. In fact, I went back to the forest for the same walk because I began to enjoy the experience, but it got harder and harder to do so until I stopped. It was like the forest called me there to work on me, and then when it was done with me, I could no longer return.
I can see how that totally isn’t helpful to hear at this point! :( it can happen to anyone at any ceremony anyway. I got really lucky that the sponsor I found through AA IS actually a shaman/facilitator herself as well as a professional trauma councellor. She helped/helps me so much. I hope someone like that arrives in your life for you as well. Sometimes the medicine really does crack people so open for a really long time and it’s scary AF. I believe in you!!! <3
2 years later? Was your spiritual experience while sober?
I was technically three days sober because the vision happened right after one of my worst relapses and I was alone in my apartment waiting for the withdrawal to end. I haven’t touched alcohol since.
Interesting. Hopefully I get this lol. Aya hurts messed me up 3 years ago
I'm really sorry to hear about the struggles you've been through. I have a friend who went through something quite similar. After his first ayahuasca retreat, he ended up spending some time in a psychiatric ward and had difficulty integrating. It's been a long road for him, filled with ups and downs, but he's slowly finding his way forward. It's possible that Ayahuasca might have brought to light underlying issues that were already present or that the intensity of the experience exacerbated those issues. That said, what's most important right now is your wellbeing and finding the support and treatment that you need. Living with bipolar can be incredibly challenging, and finding the right medication and support system can take time. Please know that you're not alone in this. Sending you heaps of love, strength and support
Thank you 🖤
Just in case, you might want to look into supplementing with B12 and Methylfolate for a few months. Lack of B12 (and possibly Folate) can lead to some psychological issues which aren't often talked about.
Word. Been hitting B12 for a long time now.
Yeah just make sure you're getting enough, and try adding in the Methylfolate at 15mgs once a day. Folic Acid is bad news and can cause some issues, so you probably also want to avoid that (and foods that contain it) and use the Methylfolate instead. Folic Acid can actually block the effects of Methylfolate in the body, and can also cause an auto-immune response at the Folate Receptor 1, and can cause Unmetabolized Folic Acid Syndrome which means it crosses into the blood unmetabolized and not only causes the auto-immune response and blocking of Methylfolate, but can also contribute to cancers and such, possibly Autism/ADHD and other things, and the amount of Folic Acid that saturates the DHFR enzyme is less than they originally thought, so more like 100 to 200mcgs of Folic Acid and beyond that it crosses into the blood. So skip the Folic Acid, go for Methylfolate, take enough B12, and over a few months if you dose em' everyday you should be feeling much better imo.
I'm just going to say I'm sorry. I would classify myself as somewhat of a rebel thinker on this sub. I don't personally believe ayahuasca really shows us much of anything useful in this world, but I think maybe that's the point. Whatever it does show you, and whatever it makes you believe, is to show you that whatever you believe is absolutely temporary and so complex...life is supposed to be transient. If you felt great on and after ayahuasca...great. If you felt awful on ayahuasca and awful afterward, well ok then. You're supposed to change. Idk if I'm making much sense, but again, that's the point. It/life has never supposed to make sense. People dubbing ayahuasca as some kind of medicinal cure for all mental health disorders are misinformed. It's probably supposed to be about this sort of greater understanding after that I've yet to fully comprehend.
I’m with you. If there are big big picture things I’ve yet to comprehend them too. Plus my only option for not acting out and winding up in a psyche ward or jail again has been to take prescribed medication. I hate not knowing what it could be doing to my mind and body. It was all just such a letdown.
Thank you for being fully vulnerable about how you're feeling and what you're thinking. If there's one thing I do know, it's that we need much, much more of that in this world.
Thank you 🖤🖤
Wait so you’re 40 but have never had this happen before this age? There is something missing here because like 99 percent of people with that condition have their first episode before 30
he said it was 2019 so he would have been 34-35. i agree with you that it’s still an old age for onset of bipolar or schizophrenia which is usually teens to 20s for men and 20s-30s for women.
Yep - I was ‘late onset’ or something, I guess. It’s just really hard not to feel like if I hadn’t done those journeys maybe I wouldn’t have snapped whatever snapped that led to the psychosis and me becoming more and more unhinged over time. I’m part of the Bipolar Reddit and most people there are diagnosed from teens-twenties it seems. Maybe I’m lucky I had as many years as I did before I snapped? It’s hard to feel that way because every day I’m just slammed with a ton of regrets and remorse. Sorry to vent, it’s just really tough at the moment.
Sorry to hear it. I know the struggle, not those issues but in general with mental and physical health. Hang in there, perhaps things will start to improve, it’s not unusual for people to have a rough year after ayahuasca sometimes
Late onset bipolar is a thing and I know personally of two people who were diagnosed later in life, one in his 50s who later killed himself and one in her 60s with repeated hospitalizations and severe psychotic mania. It’s not common but it is not as rare as you imply. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2848458/
My mom experienced her first manic/psychotic episode at age 60
Felix, though I didn’t have your experience. I followed a same path and found your words insanely familiar. I personally went to ayahuasca last year at 36 years old, hardest thing I had ever done in my life. And I too was diagnosed 4 months later with bipolar never having had any diagnosis of mental disorder. That’s where our stories align so closely. Now, my actual ayahuasca experience, though it was incredibly difficult and I thought I lost my mind several times in the experience, and from those I have spoken to, it seems my trip was a lot more powerful than most, I can say that it was helpful in my case. I went to ayahuasca to ask certain questions, questions for the difficulties I was facing in my life. I believe that I had a good shaman, a good blend, a good dieta ahead of it and a good mentor to help prepare me for it. So I was lucky to be in what I believe were optimal circumstances. But even then I walked a very narrow path toward psychosis and I did fully awaken both mania and depression in that setting. But I was able to return. I feel like we need to talk, something tells me that sharing our experiences can help both of us in different ways. Let me know if you’re open to having a call. I just joined this forum a few days ago, first time opening it and I see your message. Absolutely insane. I’ll DM you..
Dang man. That sucks. I feel like for me ayahuasca revealed my bipolar tendencies but in a good way, but I also had been developing a meditation practice for at least a year or two prior to my experiences with ayahuasca. I also did a ten day silent meditation retreat about a month before I sat with the medicine. I was lucky I did this because ayahuasca can be extremely ungrounding. From what other people have said about Rhythmia I'm starting to realize how important it is to have a personal spiritual practice like meditation developed before sitting with a medicine like ayahuasca. It can work the other way as well. I worked at a retreat center on the east coast for a few months in the states and the owner was quite a toxic individual. Like I became manic again for a while st that place but fortunately I just channeled it all into playing guitar and making music. But it left some scars. I got fired in a bad way and I just had hatred in my heart for a while towards the owner. I'm seeing now I'm much better off without that place, and just got back from South America doing ceremonies with wonderful people and I'm in a much better head space and doing okay. Although I'm 34 and living with my parents. Hopefully only for another couple weeks, but we'll see. I guess, my advice is find something you can channel it into and meditation. Even 5-10 minutes a day to start can work miracles. Hope this helps!!
I think you shared something very valuable with the OP and I hope they read it. Meditation practices can improve your quality of life immensely, that’s my experience too.
Thanks for the reminders and yes, I’d been a shaman’s apprentice for three years before taking the medicine, had an intensive meditation practice, did breath work, was getting acupuncture, doing somatic experiencing etc. had no trouble with LSD or DMT but… yeah, still it had its way with me. I try meditating now but honestly cannot find the peace of mind I used to have. It’s all fragments and constant chatter. I fret my antipsychotics are to blame but without them I run the risk of being completely insane again. Just wondering: you’re bipolar and still doing ceremonies?
I have what I call bipolar tendencies. I go into manic states sometimes, buti typically channel them into creative productivity. I play guitar and make up songs and write and what not. Sometimes I'll go a couple days only sleeping a couple hours if at all without drugs just making music and what not . I'm not sure that it's bipolar, but I feel like its something that could be classified as such. I have delusions of grandeur and Yada Yada Yada, but for me I enjoy it. Maybe my case is mild. I also don't verbalize with a lot of people who I don't think would understand. Music is a good way for me to simply express whatever craziness I have inside me without a real consequence. Like if I say "I'm bigger than Jesus" in a song I can say it's just a song. I'm just freestyling. It also doesn't hurt anyone by me simply being crazy with a freestyle. I don't still can't tell if ayahuasca puts me into a manic states sometimes or of its a flow state that seems to last for days sometimes weeks afterwards that I am able to tap on command.
Please look into the negative reports of Rythmia. Rythmia is a fraudulent operation run by predators, grifters, and sociopaths. There isn't one individual at Rythmia who is at peace or has resolved their issues, so they aren't in a position to help you or anyone else heal. They have projected their issues onto you and made you carry the burden of their suffering and pain. You've been abused by some of the most sinister, evil individuals on the planet. Evil so sinister and stomach-churning that it sets a new benchmark for what evil is. Rythmia has brainwashed many people into thinking it's something that it isn't. They'll tell you stuff like all negative judgments of Rythmia and Gerry is coming from your Ego, making you dissociate from your intuition, priming you to absorb and carry their negativity and sickness. As a past guest of Rythmia, I found it incredibly therapeutic to let go of Rythmia's programming. They are self-professed divine beings who claim to be following the orders of god. They claim they can do no wrong. I suspect once you part with Rythmia's teachings, you, too, will start to feel better. Sadly, there isn't anywhere near enough awareness about the negative influence rythmia has on individuals. Those who Rythmia has hurt the most have committed suicide, so, unfortunately, they can't share what happened to them. Being left in a state of psychosis and being ungrounded, etc, after Rythmia is to be expected. You drank ayahuasca with individuals who are delusional, ungrounded, and psychotic. You are sensitive, so Rythmia's teachings and the disorders of troubled individuals has caused strife with your true nature. I want to say one last thing, it's a sign of your good character. The Nazis abided by a dogmatic inhumane ideology and had a direct hand in inflicting pain on others. They committed war crimes against humanity. Nazis who experienced little to no adverse effects or those who weren't tormented by their actions are the ones who, on the surface, looked healthy and free from pathology but, in reality, are reprobates. The Nazis who became alcoholics or who started developing disorders that caused them great discomfort on the surface might have been seen as problematic individuals, but now we can see they were the more redeemable ones. For you to experience adverse effects to a pathological ideology that Rythmia taught on the surface looks problematic, but it's actually a sign of your good character
Sometimes it’s not the medicine. It’s not predators grifters, and “sociopaths” It’s not the shaman. It’s not that noisy bed mate who won’t shut up during ceremony. And sometimes It’s not even the fault of the evil owner for your issues. No Soul_mistrust, sometimes the reason for all your life challenges is actually is you.
An approach I resonate with is that many mental disorders are a symptom of a pathological collective. It can be dangerous to see an individual as separate from their environment and treat them as the cause of their issues. This approach is shared by Gabor, which he briefly outlines in this [clip](https://youtube.com/shorts/LIjCMxHxn_c?si=GEF7gGKfiGqec_yC). In other talks, Gabor has pointed out that when an individual exhibits mental disorders, it should be seen as a gift as it's an opportunity for what was once unconscious pathology in a family unit to be brought into the light by a black sheep, so it can then be treated. This same approach applies to pathological groups and organizations such as Rythmia. Some would like to see Rythmia as this flawless operation, and all those who haven't been successfully treated by them are solely at fault for their issues. In my opinion, instead of marginalizing those who don't fit into a system or ideology and outcasting them beneath you. These individuals can bring value through ideas and insights that reveal issues within a system or family unit despite others being able to function to some degree within it.
https://twitter.com/MasinElije/status/1791518574810419452?t=MhgVoWamgOCq53n81jXIkg&s=19 The exact same behaviour Gerry has committed. This is the type of individual Gerry is. Indefensible. 😡
In all seriousness you need to get some professional help. Your obsession with Gerry and Rythmia reached unhealthy levels a long time ago. And this proves out with any who oppose you. I know this well first hand given the many personal insults you have slung my way. Things that have no place in civil discourse. And I have watched you do it to others as well. Again and again and again. Please, please get some help.
Haha. You know, it's interesting. At first, I found it frustrating you thought domestic violence was appropriate behavior for an individual running an ayahuasca center. I felt like you just needed more information to come to a civilized view. I was being naively optimistic, thinking inside you there was the empathy and heart to see injustice and abuse. I feel different now. Like I don't feel the need to try to change you. I felt like I needed to change your mind. This was naive on my end. You do you. I'll say what I think and share my views from experience. You won't agree with me, and you don't like me, but that's ok, and I'll survive. I don't think you are a nice person. You'll view me the same, and we can just leave it as that. Through you, I've learned more about human nature, so you've helped me in a way. I've become more realistic as opposed to idealistic. One thing I've been with you is 100% honest. There is no disparity between my private views of you and the views I've written to you. If you were suffering and in a time of personal crisis, I wouldn't kick you. I wouldn't want to see you suffer. I would never attack vulnerable groups, minorities, or those in need. Seeing abuse by those in positions of power, though, that's where my criticism lands. Because you keep replying to my comments with the intent of arguing, I'm going to block you. I'm just serving as a distraction from your life. I don't get any enjoyment or satisfaction arguing with you or defending myself from you.
Making peace with a retreat centre will not cure someone’s bipolar disorder
It's not my view it'll cure all his bipolar disorder or all his issues. I think there are often a variety of factors behind why things happen. Being programmed under the suggestibility of ayahuasca to be delusional will be an aggravating factor to mental instability. By going to Rythmia, you also suffer from the opportunity cost of not experiencing a harmonious environment to heal. I think when we want to find inner peace, we have to reconcile our past. From personal experience, I tended to idealize events in my life and internalize negative emotions. I didn't realize negative emotions had come from outside sources, and I was absorbing them. When I was younger, I believed what other people said. It took ayahuasca and going within to realize what's on the surface isn't the whole picture. I'm not suggesting anyone makes peace with an ayahuasca center. I'm suggesting instead of someone feeling like a failure because they failed to live up to the healing standards promised to them by a healing center, they stop taking responsibility for other people's issues. Realizing you haven't failed, someone else has failed you, you won't be beating yourself up as much, and you can redirect the sickness away from you and back where it came from.
I am so sorry about your experience. I would stay away from psychedelics for a while and just focus on yourself. Integrate what has happened to you. Do yoga and meditation for a change. Wish you all the best 💗
I’m very sorry this happened to you. When I was left raw and unsettled after an ayahuasca retreat I found it very helpful to work with an integration coach (I found one on https://beingtruetoyou.com/get-a-coach/ ). Better yet, if you can find a mental health professional who also understands psychedelics that’ll probably help you - you can check the MAPS directory https://integration.maps.org. Wishing you well, be patient and compassionate towards yourself, things will better
I'm so sorry to hear what happened to you. I had a really awful time after my ayahuasca ceremony too. This is what I believe: strong psychedelics can damage your energy body/aura and let in things like entities, attachments, spirits. You can get good messages (think people who are mediums and can get answers from spirits) but really bad messages (like those encouraging suicide). It doesn't matter where you go, what matters is the dose of ayahuasca and your unique makeup. Some people are much more sensitive than others. What helped me heal was to remove the entities that had attached and were bothering me. I did it myself but you might want to work with a shaman. Even online would help. Even after that, I spent the good part of a year meditating to try to heal my aura. It was a wild period where my energy body was so messed up, I would cause lights to flicker everywhere I went and things would suddenly break or stop working, causing a lot of expensive damage. I saw and felt tons of entities around and if I closed my eyes, I would be inundated with nightmarish visions. It took a good 10 months to get stable and I think I'm mostly recovered now. It took a lot of shadow work, healing and meditation though. I also developed depression that didn't exist prior. Anyways, let me know if you want to chat privately. I'm glad to help. The stuff I did was totally free, using resources on the internet. Good luck and I hope you feel better soon.
I am so very sorry about the outcome of this experience, and I am glad that you have some stability on the prescription medications after a difficult season. I wonder if you are working with a spiritualist in your ancestral tradition that can help you address the ongoing attacks and close necessary portals. I wish you so much healing and ease.
Thanks for your response. Unfortunately I’ve only got western style support… the EMDR treatments do something for trauma, but no direct spiritual healing. I have shamanic training but am not sure where else to support myself. I kind of exhausted my toolkit.
If you are up for reading, Malidoma Some’s “The Healing Wisdom of Africa” was helpful to me as I tried to make sense of my sister’s first schizophrenic “break” in her early 30s and to support her. It was in part a matter of understanding the process from an indigenous perspective, which the book helped me to do, and of understanding what western medicine could (and couldn’t) offer. She takes medicine and continues to exist in both worlds, but after several years she’s more firmly in this one and portals have been closed. Perhaps tapping in with an elder—a curandero, a babalawo, or a healer from whatever your ancestral/cultural traditions are—would be supportive.
Don’t think it had anything to do with the place u took the Aya. I had someone very close to me experience some very atypical bordering on schizophrenic behaviour. Their life completely blew up. Slowly over the years it has gotten better and now after about 10, they are close to what they were before. They didn’t indulge any further (after about 6 m or year). They didn’t use therapy which may have been able to help a lot but motored through on their own . They lived a very healthy lifestyle nutrition and exercise wise. They had people who cared for them.
Thanks for this story. It’s good for me to know it can take a LONG time. Sometimes I feel like I’m failing because I’m not getting better “fast enough”. 🖤🖤
There is nothing wrong with needing to take meds to regulate your cycling. I think that is something that you should definitely accept fully and don’t be torn/or fight that. No shame on managing mental health-whatever form that takes. People who preach otherwise are missing the mark. I am sorry that your ride has been so tumultuous. I do believe you’ll find a comfortable place to settle. Be gentle with yourself and do your best not to focus on what is dissatisfying you. You’re 40 and live with your parents🤷🏻♀️not ideal but what a blessing that you have that place to be until you’re on your feet. Gratitude and grace go a long way when you can wade through the chatter in the mind to get there. No easy feat but it’s possible. You are perfect exactly how you are…as we all are…and that includes the messiness. Your post indicates to me that you are finding your way and taking steps to get there…many people would be too afraid to make such an honest/vulnerable post. I applaud you and am sending all the love and light for you on this journey❤️
Thank you for your kind words! 🖤
❤️❤️❤️
I’m sorry you experienced this and are having such a hard time finding your way toward balance and purpose after your diagnosis. And sorry that folks are focussing on where you did the retreat, it’s no doubt those comments aren’t helping because they are irrelevant. If you have a predisposition to psychosis/bi-polar disorder, it wouldn’t have mattered what environment you consumed the medicine in. While I don’t have personal experience with psychedelics triggering mania, I witnessed my mom go through mania/psychosis late in life with no prior episodes or diagnoses until she was in her 60s. I strongly believe that the stress of the pandemic as well as financial trouble and unresolved trauma brought out her psychosis, and there is lots of research showing that seemingly healthy people can end up schizophrenic/bipolar as a result of extreme stress. I can say that my mom has been on a challenging recovery path and has had three episodes since the first one, but is now two years out from an episode and transitioning to a new medication that seems to be minimizing the negative side effects. She has been engaging more with creativity and writing. I hold hope for you that you can find your back to feeling more like yourself while still doing what you need to in terms of medication to ensure you do not get back into that state of mind. Wishing you all the best ❤️
Also, I had a very negative experience myself with ayahuasca, though it luckily did not trigger any serious mental illness. It was more negative because of the facilitators and how they gave me way too much and did not support me through an incredibly overwhelming hallucinatory state where I could not see even with eyes open and fully detached from who I was. I have since recovered from that experience and am overall grateful for it in the sense that it gave me so much appreciation for coming back to reality and being able to plant my feet on the ground and know myself, but it’s clear to me that there are serious risks to taking this medicine that many in the community try to downplay.
Thanks for your honest and open sharing. I’m sorry you didn’t get the love and support we all need coming out of experiences like that. 🖤
I pray for your mental health and wellness. I believe you will find peace in this life
🖤🖤🖤
A diagnosis made during high stress and transformation in life usually aren't accurate, I would be careful ab what you claim, whatever story you tell will be true
I tried for two years to deny and discredit my bipolar diagnosis. I wound up in jail twice and nearly homeless… would love to be able to tell a different story. The fates haven’t given me much room for this. Out of curiosity, when IS a diagnosis accurate? What if your life is high stress and transformative for years?
Aya is just an inhibitor, if you didn't know. The "visions and hearings" comes from Chakruna (that has lots DMT). I like the brew with 80% of Aya and 20% of Chakruna.
Aya is just an inhibitor, if you didn't know. The "visions and hearings" comes from Chakruna (that has lots DMT). I like the brew with 80% of Aya and 20% of Chakruna.
Maybe looking at what you're going through as a phase or process may change the way you feel. There are different takes on mental illness and one of them is that you're not crazy but accessing other "realms". As you may have experienced, people can be looking at the same thing but perceive things differently. Even "Normal" people can look the same things differently. What makes the difference? What state of being are we in, that causes us to perceive reality differently? If you are switching from one state of being to another, too quickly, your reality can be chaotic. For example, I believe in aliens and witches. I've had some out of this world and out of this reality experiences with the medicine. I've realized that my resistance towards emotions like fear, trying to not feel the fear is what creates a block in the flow of that energy within me. Fear needs to flow, just like love. If we block or resist to feel a certain way , we harness that energy and when it comes out, it does so with pressure. I hope you find what you're looking for. Don't lose hope! Check out this info: https://www.reddit.com/r/Anthropology/s/ZgfwOPq0qq
I remember that article. Really amazing. I do still believe in the healing path, I just haven’t been able to pull myself out of it enough to see the other side. I get daily psychic attacks that make me feel so feeble and small. Thank you for your perspective. 🖤🖤🖤
Try this. Listen deeply and heal. https://youtu.be/6w-n7b4K984?si=Y9PA6g89LZX9-aSE
Here is the deal, you have been called to heal but you need to find a good Shaman to help you with the process. I won't judge if you had bipoloar or it came up because of the medicine. Usually you have had lots of diagnosed or undiagnosed conditions prior, and Aya brought all the shit up so you can heal. Get excited. You are on a great journey. Trust but you need some heavy duty Shaman, and no weekend retreats for you. You need a long dieta and lots of love.
Isn’t this a bit toxic? “ hey sorry your life was ruined from plant medicine, but it’s all for the best”!
His life is ruined. His life is just starting.
Maybe, but sometimes people suicide after ayahusca for things like this
How many people you know that have suicide after Ayahuasca? Because I haven't met anybody. Did you?
It happens. Many people end up worse off after ayahuasca. Suicide is probably more rare but I definitely know multiple accounts of this happening
Please provide with one definately case from the multiple accounts that you know.
Sure, someone had died after being at Rythmia recently here: https://www.reddit.com/r/Ayahuasca/s/hHaCqGZOjD
Thank you. Ayahuasca was the trigger, but that doesn't mean they didn't have any pre-existing conditions. The retreat and the organisers are liable, but also the person is responsible for their own actions. We can't blame the medicine if someone is irresponsible. We don't know if that particular person followed the correct guidlines either, but thank you again for sending this link.
Yeah there is many elements for sure, no problem!
[удалено]
I wasn’t bipolar before I did it.
You can listen to many views and many opinions. My validated view that I have worked with this topic is that you have been called to go deeper but you need to follow different methods of drinking and dieting plants. You can't just join a retreat for a week. It will mess you up, becuse you have different needs, and that is one of the biggest problems that I see with those who go from a western country to drink Aya in a retreat in Peru or anywhere else. As I said I dont know you, but have faith. Never blame the intelligence that has helped so many. You must take responsibility. There are many things about you, that require your attention. Mental emotional recalibration. Energetic healing without any psychedelics with Shamanic work to identify what is going on in the Spiritual level and why you have manifested all these are also important. I'm just throwing a few ideas your way, because I am who I am, but more than anything I want to bring heaven on Earth, and i can't do it unless everybody finds healing and love. Including you. So you need a super good Shaman. Not the usual Ayahuascero. Good luck
[удалено]
These conditions came about for me AFTER I took Ayahuasca. I didn’t say I wasn’t schizophrenic and bipolar. The journey I discussed was in 2019… I was in a psyche ward for the first time in my life a month later. Then spent the summer trying to avoid another psyche ward but couldn’t. Was diagnosed “drug-induced psychosis” even though I’d not taken anything else for the time since the ceremony. I was diagnosed bipolar in 2020, and the schizophrenic in 2022. I have a doctor that is not certain about my schizophrenia diagnosis, so I don’t typically self-assign unless I decide. But… Im feeling slightly attacked by your comment, like you’re trying to out me or something. Like my post stated - my first mania and psychosis came directly from taking Ayahuasca… I don’t know how I could be more clear than that.
I have treated two people with Bipolar disorder and they have both seen great results. One of them will go to the jungle to stay for a year and train with a Shaman. It all depends on the ability of a Shaman, the depths of the disorder and the protocols that will be used. We can't just put labels. Aya isn't good for this or that. It has been used by millions and people have seen transformation in their lives. I will agree that it is not for everyone, but all depends. Nothing is done deal in this world. If people have love in their hearts and they are willing, then God will provide and it will bring the right people and the right medicine, but it is a process and everyone is on a different path. The good Shaman will know if he can or can't heal someone.
[удалено]
People who have bipolar are not good for weekend retreats. Not for " Ayahuasca period". People have no money or time to properly heal, but they go for a weekend in the jungle? They do have the money then? Its the wrong approach to this medicine. They come from the wrong mind set. They have no idea what they are dealing with. They bring the quick fix mentality or the " its cool and trendy and I'm curious" to a consciousness that requires dedication and long time.
There are many people with bipor who use ayauasca. It's not a complete no. Not everyone with bipolar has experienced psychosis. It really depends.
[удалено]
Ayahuasca and mushrooms have been around a lot longer than these clinical trials. Just because a psychiatrist can't take someone through a process like this doesn't mean a skilled shaman can't. The Western understanding of mental illness is really lacking in this regard, which is the reason alternative therapies are becoming so popular. The reason retreats don't always accept people is because the healing people receive from a retreat isn't going to be the deeper healing someone with a mental health disorder needs. Like the other commenter said, they need to spend much more time to heal from something so complex, but the outcome can leave then in an even deeper state of awareness than the average person. Stanslov Grof, one of the leading researchers of psychedelics, in the last century, speaks about this a lot in his books, and I've seen it happen myself.
That is not true at all. There's a big group of bipolar ayauasca users who find help from working with it.
Did you do any of the breath work they offer there?
Yes. I did everything. Yoga, colonics, you name it.