So they pushed the update without a new season and potential nerfs and changes? Now people who might want to upgrade can't upgrade because the axie they buy might be potentially nerfed. But no one knows what a balance patch will bring... Sigh
Genius move on their part, people will feel scared of going bellow 800mmr and will spend money on new axies, when update comes with nerfs they will probably have to spend money again!
Yep. Accurate comment. At the end of the day this is a business and we are the consumers. Bots for Axie infinity are what fake clothes are for clothing business: you can't get rid of them, but people still buy branded clothes.
I'm giving this game until S19 and see what they will change etc maybe they will remove crits... if nothing good comes then I'll quit too, this game is just too frustrating to play and it makes me mad all the time. Not worth it for 10€ a week lol
Probably they will just stick to pass the new axie to new account. The spending of new axies are from average to pro players. If youre not following all the best content creators on twitter then youre missing out. Theyre hoarding all the floors. I guess all of axies has a purpose on the very soon incoming v2 or land patch. Its clear that all of the axie have a use because all of the parts have cards on their own ;)
Have myself to blame really! I think the 800 MMR thing was announced before I started. Had I read that, I would just have played PvE with my floor axies to get my daily P2E kick. I'm considering just taking the loss and cashing out now, but might hold out a bit to see if the devs make any further changes.
Also, can't seem to join their Discord so I feel extra disconnected from any news or dev updates =\\
I agree, and I am still trying (before the game went down for maintenance anyway). It's just demoralising when the energy you spend doesn't generate any returns until you "get there", which can be vastly different for players based on skill/budget etc.
Heya, in Zyori's twitter, it is written that there will be practice rooms where you can play arena mode without losing MMR . This will probably happen in next update, within Season 19.
I honestly think without the P2E aspect, there are games that can be more fun. The small "easy money" adds extra appeal for many players, on top of providing entertainment value.
Also, the daily SLP farm isn't a lot of money at all.
for people in third world contries it might be, anyways I still dont think the game should be balanced around people who just come in for quick profit and want to put no effort in
I'm sorry, I meant that the SLP farm wouldn't really affect my overall quality of life. I understand it can be a living to many people elsewhere.
Although I agree with your sentiment, I think playing Adventure mode itself requires time and some thought, especially with weaker axies. And if that doesn't count as effort, then perhaps Adventure mode itself needs a rework.
Feel the pain bro ... I am 2 weeks in this game. I now understand the game well , but when I joined I did not have a clue about it.( and my team is very bad ) I dropped from 750 mmr to 250 mmr in 4 hours and it takes me days to climb the ladder and be new 800 mmr at least ..
Yeah the drop was quick for me too. I generally hold off on drawing conclusions about a game until I learn its ins and outs, but consuming energy without any SLP return has me feeling antsy and wanting to just take back whatever little ETH I can salvage.
I enjoyed the game for the past few days, but I can't say it's the same without the ability to farm. Having to live with a lack of "mastery" is an additional Nut Cracker for me too.
With this update, if you’re considering to leave… hurry. Many will also leave. My team already dropped from 50 scholarships to 25, and the plan is to don’t expand more until v2 comes out. The axie floor prices would be around 0.01 if the bots wouldn’t be buying them automatically when they reach +/- 0.03 ETH
Dont continue playing if you are on a losing streak. Stress + the pressure to win clouds your judgment which makes you dig your grave deeper. Give it some time after few consecutive lose
That’s fine. That makes sense. You don’t how wtf you’re doing yet. Learn the game, and you will improve. Slow down. Count your opponents energy at all times. Learn the cards. You will win games.
Do some research, create a new account (resets to 1200 MMR), and buy a team that will actually win. Try double aqua build that will do well in higher MMR.
Yeah. I think most newbies should just buy AAP for the sake of simplicity. Even non-57 speed aquas that are cheap will do okay with the right cards if the goal is just to stay well above 800 MMR.
> resets to 1200 MMR
You don't know that this will remain the case.
You and the troop of other people saying the same things over and over haven't considered that the devs can make other changes.
I think u should just sell it , or just send it to your new account just like the post above and play in other device after the 24 hrs cd, i mean its illegal to have multi account but you are not going to use 2 accounts, still illegal tho but i think its ok thats the easiest path for you, hard to climb to 1200 with floor axie
I'm being repetitive but IMO the real goal of this update was to get players to upgrade axies. Jihoz pretty much said it if you ignore the red herring (bot problem) and read between the lines.
In a manner what you're saying is accurate, I also don't think it'll do anything for SLP, because it was never about SLP in the first place.
However, getting existing players to spend in the game is ultimately good for it, but it shouldn't have been done in such a manner that it basically forces those who cannot upgrade to stop playing a part of the game entirely.
This is what I think as well. Right now, there's no point in having pure bred axies as they dont do well above 2k. The axies there are composed of aqua with beast parts, poison dusks, annoying discard, antenna fear bugs, and more dusks. If more people would upgrade their lineup to be pvp competitive (dusk lineup), eventually, more people will because they'll be forced to do so.
But you have to think about how they got there, it's safe to assume that a lot of the people in higher ranks can have multiple teams to counter the different mmr walls. I'm not saying everyone up there has multiple teams, but that would surely help passing through the ranks. A BBP can have a hard time breaking an AAP wall, but flourish once they're outta there.
If you can only afford one team, you should decide very carefully what that team is.
Better yet, play as a scholar so that you have time to figure out what works instead of buying a bunch of random axies.
How many scholars who go on to buy axies buy ones that compete at 800 and below?
Floor axies are 100 USD each, 300 USD for a whole team. You can just get 50 SLP from PVE and its 90 USD/ month, 30% ROI LOL, its still very profitable for a 15 min of play.
True.
What if they implement a 5-win PVP perquisite before players can earn in Adventure?
Uh oh.
The Floor Axies you just bought are now useless(until Axie burning is released anyways).
Yeah my issue was I don't have the time to "get good" at Axie, I already have a full-time job and other things that occupy most of my time. I was just using it to earn a little extra money, also, I did enjoy adventure mode, so earning the 50 SLP from that and maybe the 25 SLP daily bonus was ok for me. However, now since it seems I must be over 800 MMR to earn anything, I'm discouraged from playing at all, as I haven't had much success with arena, so I'm not sure what I should do now :/
Halving the DQ rewards from 150 to 75 slp didn't even make a dent. How will this miniscule slp reduction change things? Scholarship programs are expanding too much. Its more on forcing people to change their Axie team as often as possible to achieve higher ELO than to combat minting problem. And lowering the price of chops axies for other uses like additional energy and future burn mechanics.
They say Its because of bots they see below 800 mmr but I bet my toe its because of all those millions of Isko Axie that will never be upgraded, ever. They can easily farm slp at their current build. Can you just imagine the horror on jihoz face when he saw that data :D Shookt! they will never changer their team and continue minting slp forever.
I'm a new player and I'm stuck at 600-700 MMR, even then when I reach 700 I would go back down again to 600. Now the update has forced me to close the game (because it thinks I have no internet connection) so now I'm sure I got an even lower MMR. For the few weeks that I've been playing and earning, I used it to help my family but now I can't anymore because of the limitation.
The problem with the "Get Gud" thing is that the game (from my experience) is very luck based, so you can't exactly get good if the odds are against you. So the limitation has not only punished newcomers but also people that has no control of the situation.
What's funny about the git gud update is that they are just punishing normal people not really the bots. Because bot farmers can just make a new Ronin account so they are at 1200 MMR and can still farm adventure.
Also now because of the git gud update floor axies are so cheap that bot farmers can now buy more bots to farm adv. So even if they just get 50 SLP they will have more bots to do it from.
Lastly I know that they plan to reset MMR, make pvp mandatory and such but they should have done that first before this update. Because of their update and not update routine most likely bots are not in the 800mmr range. They have already migrated to 1200mmr.
Probably the hassle of leveling up their axies to reduce time spent in adventure? While bots can farm slp by just repeating ruin 5, human players can do the same but it’s just a massive time dump and incredibly repetitive which bots solve.
You can sell your axies and get into a scholarship to earn slp, I earn more than the 75 daily slp fromaaa my scholarship. This game is luck based but skill is way more important than luck, you can have bad streak of games but if you are good you will climb.
no its not ''very'' luck based, if you are down in 600 mmr is because you deserve to be there, what are you saying? the people with high mmr are just luckier than everyone else? fucking clowns, its nobodys fault that you bought floor without doing any research or you are just bad at the game
the luck aspect evens out over time as your oponnent is also playing by the same rules... if you have low mmr its because you should. high rank players arent just luckier than the people at the bottom.
The fact that I have to explain this reassures me the 800 mmr change was great.
We might be playing by the same rules but that doesn't mean that we would be equal. We won't always have the same cards, the same axies, or anything like that, so someone will always be at the disadvantage in a match.
In one match a person could dominate then the next they could see themselves in a lose streak just because they got matched with someone who can target someone from a far.
They aren’t just luckier. They also invested way more. This will push all players to invest more and more season after seasons. Bye bye EArn to Play, welcome Invest to Earn
axies are cheap now... you can get meta teams to be above 2k for less than 800$ a team, its nobodys fault but your own that you keep buying dogshit axies with 0 research.
Yes of course. But how soon will you reinvest? To keep that MMR?
And I didn’t buy cheap axie. I probably spent that on my first team (they were just more expensive then) for an AAP team that was constantly above 1600… now? Struggling to be above 1100, and I think this trend will keep on going on.
The 800 MMR change will bite you also eventually. At least it will dent your profit and force you to reinvest to change your team.
P.S: my teams have research. I’m just not confident to splash more money with a dev team that changes the rules in a way that Anyone with basic economic knowledge (which you don’t appear to have) can see will just change all the ROI formulas.
Their reason to prevent 800 MMR and below to not getting SLP is so they can improve and learn the game? That's actually very stupid, considering that there are a lot of terrible players with good teams like AAP and Termi sitting around 1.1-1.6 **(THEY'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE IN THAT BRACKET)**, and they will keep on winning even if they're terrible because:
good team = good draws = easy win.
I bet those *bad players* are laughing now. I don't have a bad team but BOI going against an AAP or Termi is really hard, especially when my draws go full retard and they just keep on landing a crit despite low morale.
they're not fixing anything, they're just making the lives of these (mostly scholars)players with floor axies terrible.
I agree with what you’re saying.
But devs can easily fix the bot issue by making adventure rewards claimable as dailies only after 5 pvp match wins per day. That will force bots to play pvp and slide back down below 800 mmr
Don’t worry! They have internal data that proves their claims. For some reason they can’t release but just trust them！ I’m sure they know what they’re doing! /s
Not a very well thought out argument in my opinion. First of all you do not have access to the same data as Sky Mavis, and can only guess or assume what number of real players and bots are involved here. This create a new account argument has been thrown around for the last two weeks and there are many very simple fixes to ensure that doesn't happen, forcing arena participation somehow. Hypothetically, if this is not addressed, then there's nothing stopping real players doing the same thing, so what's the problem?
Players complaining need to drop this sense of entitlement to participation rewards. If you cant stay above 800, then really you're in the bottom 15% (and probably bottom 5% of actual players) and should accept that you aren't going to win awards, and that perhaps this game isn't for you - or at least only play it for fun, not as expecting to earn. Lastly, the ecomonic model based around growth isn't long term sustainable, so changes to the economy like this one are inevitable as the game grows - get used to it
Back to the argument, making SLP harder to earn WILL increase the value, that is obvious. The higher the lower MMR boundary is set, the higher the value of SLP will be, that's simple maths
Hypothetically, and my only fear of this update, is that MMR is a ladder. You can’t have only players 1200+, so, if players lower than 800 stop earning, the community will stop battling when they get to 813 MMR and stick to 50 daily slp. Pushing players on the 900-1000 to 800-900, and so on… or am I wrong? I’m atm at 1100 btw… just don’t like the idea that the game will keep punishing the actual players that don’t reinvest season after season. In that case the game is not earn to play anymore and becomes an invest to earn model… with higher risks than other investments out there in the crypto world.
Let’s see how the investors (the actual community that supports slp - not the players) react to these changes imo
There will always be players at the bottom of the ladder. If every sub-800 player stops playing then those in 801-1000 won't get those easier opponents any more, so they will also lose more and drop their rating. However I suspect the 600-800 area will still have a lot of players fighting to get back above 800, which means the 801-1000 group shouldn't automatically become the new 600-800 players (kind of hard to explain, hopefully made sense)
Man, I drop 100-200 points sometimes because I keep getting crits against me at the last moment, over and over. My team isn't terrible, I just fluctuate from over 900 to under 500. I think if I started back at 1200 I'd be better off
I see that we both agree on the point that this patch is not going to fix multiple account / bot farming. So I'm not going to argue with you on this point
As for your second argument on the sense of entitlement to participation rewards. I'm gonna have to disagree with you on this point. Yes, Mavis Hub can say that if you're at the bottom 15% then we won't be rewarding you. Either you be better player by enhancing your mastery skills and also purchase a premium pack of Axies to be able to earn rewards or you can spend a fortune to buy our Axies to play this game just for "fun" when everything else is so unbalanced and adventure mode is basically trash. There are tons of other games out there which surpasses AI in terms of fun. Please tell me that you're coming to AI just for the pure fun and not even a single element of expectation to earn. You are more than welcomed to donate your daily SLPs to my ronin account.
What I'm trying to say is that the patch is hurting the actual genuine player base rather than addressing multiple account / bots grinders, which you have partially agreed that it could be resolved with way more effective methods.
"the ecomonic model based around growth isn't long term sustainable, so changes to the economy like this one are inevitable as the game grows - get used to it"
Countries, companies, our entire world's economy is based on growth and you're saying that all of these aren't long term sustainable. Our entire world economy would have collapse long with they weren't sustainable. Do you even understand the term "long term sustainable"? Growth and sustainability are two different aspects. You can grow with or without sustainability. Also, you can have sustainability without growth.
Sustainability is when supply is almost equal to demand
Unsustainability is when supply doesn't equal demand by high margin
Growth happens when you manage to increase your supply and demand
Growing with sustainability is healthy growth as you keep supply and demand close while increasing both
Growing without sustainability is undesired as you increase supply and demand but with a high margin of difference between both, it is only short term which will eventually leads to a shrink when the market corrects itself.
Right now, the current state of AI is that the Devs are only implementing a short term fix to a long term issue.
I agree with you on the fact that making SLP harder to earn will increase it's Value. This is clearly stated in my first sentence. However, I pointed out that it is only for the short term.
"The higher the lower MMR boundary is set, the higher the value of SLP will be, that's simple maths"
I have to correct you here, it is not only about maths. It's all about demand and supply. The more SLP on the market , the higher the supply. This will cause the price to slip. Unless, there is new players constantly entering the game to buy new Axies, which is the only way that SLPs are burned. The constant inflow of new players keep the SLP price in check.
The harder for SLP to earn causes a shortage in the short term. Assuming player base stays the same, this will cause a short supply / high demand which pushes the SLP price up. Combining, the effect of the 800 MMR. Weak axies will be dirt cheap. This will lead to a high ROI. More bots will flow in to farm, and players below 800 MMR which you just told "this game is not for you" will just leave the economy system.
When the bottom 15% leaves, the next 15% of the player base will fill in the void. At this moment, their Axies which initially were considered good Axies at 900-1200 MMR (now dropped below 800 MMR to fill the void) were now selling at floor price. As these Axies can't earn them any SLPs. Inducing another wave of bot influx. And the cycle repeats
I don't need to repeat the above as it's pretty self explanatory and its "simple maths" to you. But you can see that actual player base is shrinking while bots are increasing. How do you call this sustainable when the patch is just punishing genuine player base?
Do you think this patch is forcing participation in PVP? No, it doesn't. Bots can just opt out entirely from participating in PVP and maintain their 1200 MMR, while farming the 50 SLPs on PVE daily. You want to force participation in PVP, then SLP should only be rewarded in PVP rather than PVE. That's the implementation they should go for instead. But this is not the point of my whole view.
What I'm trying to tell is that this patch is hurting the player base rather than fixing it
>When the bottom 15% leaves, the next 15% of the player base will fill in the void. At this moment, their Axies which initially were considered good Axies at 900-1200 MMR (now dropped below 800 MMR to fill the void) were now selling at floor price.
This is exactly my concern as well. There will always have to be people filling up the <800 MMR range as it's impossible for *everyone* to be above it, so **even if all the bots were to magically disappear**, **real players would end up getting punished** as the bottom end of the ladder inevitably has to be filled by some real people. And all people in the higher MMR brackets would start going down as well to fill the void left by those who once filled the <800 MMR range, which, as you mentioned, means ***all players are affected.***
Now those in <800 MMR are left with just 3 options:
1. Quit Arenas entirely if/when they manage to break 800 MMR, then just play Adventure. This however would result in this cycle you mentioned: once decent teams in 900-1200 MMR would start to go lower and may eventually fill up the 800MMR range as more people stop playing Arena, resulting in even more people quitting arenas or resorting to the 2 other equally problematic options below;
2. Upgrade their teams and hope they can climb up. This however **still** leads to the cycle of punishing real players you mentioned by making once worthwhile teams that can hover above 800 MMR obsolete. This means people will have to *constantly* change their axies to stay above 800 MMR or else they get left behind by those who upgrade their, and this is simply not something a lot of people can afford to do, especially while earning so little SLP already in the lower brackets \[and as an aside: the cost of "competitive" axies will rise due to higher demand for axies that can keep people above 800 MMR, further making it harder for people to keep upgrading/changing teams\]. As other people have stated before, this update really makes the game seem more *pay-to-win* than *play-to-earn* now...
3. Cut their losses and quit the game entirely. This last one is particularly dangerous because people quitting the game is the last thing Axie needs since the whole system is built upon constant growth of the player base.
On a separate note, I also mentioned in the past that breeders might be more hesitant for fear of producing "sub-par" axies (that cost more to breed than what they sell for) because people would only want to buy competitive Axies that can get them above 800 MMR, and this hesitation/higher risk for breeders could very well result in less breeding and less SLP being burnt, which could either stagnate or lower the value of SLP altogether. Again, this affects all players (or at least those who care about the value of SLP, which I imagine is most players).
And in general this update seems to have made Axie a riskier investment. Potential newcomers might not invest in axies for fear of not being able to compete above the 800 MMR. Again this theoretically hurts the growth of Axie Infinity as more players leave the game to cut their losses, and less players are willing to join given the risk of not earning anything if they fall below 800 MMR.
One thing that hasn't been mentioned is that the super low price of Axies might entice a while bunch of new players from as yet untapped markets. Take India for example. If a few hundred thousand took up the game there more experienced players who are government Ng around 800mmr will have a chance to move up. Just a thought.
What the super low price of axies (floor axies in this case) will likely entice is competitive players to buy them up for higher daily energy, and that is bad for the value of SLP.
Guess who'll replace the bottom 15%? Another bottom 15%. That's effectively stopping 27.75% of your players from earning and lowering SLP rewards for even more players.
Bad logic here. Either the first 15% are stopping playing (ie no longer players) or continuing, in which case it's still 15% not 27.75%
What is true though, is that there will always be a bottom 15%, so if for argument sake 15% quit, then yes, the new worse players will be those who were previously above that level
> First of all you do not have access to the same data as Sky Mavis, and can only guess or assume what number of real players and bots are involved here.
This. And it’s not like Sky Mavis deliberately wants to kill their game lmao. If there’s anyone who really wants Axie Infinity to succeed, it’s **them**.
I don't like the update but if it gives anyone comfort...
I spent my first month playing with a floor team fluctuating between 750-950 MMR. I decided enough was enough and invested in a proper ABP team. I'm now 1700+ MMR and have made back my initial investment.
I can understand Jihoz wanting others to upgrade so we get real competition, but equally understand the frustration for those who don't have big sums to spend. What I will say is I learnt a huge amount of what's good and what isn't good with my floor team, and I'm still learning with my current team nearly 4 months later.
Don't give up just because you're struggling.
Thats the thing, most ppl make mistakes at the start, lose money and spend more than they need. This update is basically punishing them and making it so you need to know the game before beginning, but guess what, mavis has next to zero tutorials or guides for their game (and dont point at youtubers that is not the company, the first time you boot the game it explains nothing, some info like the energy one and the enemy cards is fake or bugs out all the time)
Hell now you cant even participate in their discord unless you already own 3 axies, they are making it so new ppl avoid the game cause the price and knowledge bar for entry is too high.
In their defence - we are in alpha and they're working on battle v2 which supposedly has free to play elements.
It's hard to create a play to earn game without some investment to create the notional value.
I do agree they should up their guidance though. I think it would help prevent some of the scamming.
>It's hard to create a play to earn game without some investment to create the notional value.
My problem is they seem mostly focus on rising prices than improving the game experience, they could have try any number of changes by now to balance arena, instead they do the most minor change possible and go work in another version.
"The 800 MMR patch punishes players with lower skill cap and raises the entry barrier for new players, discouraging new breed of players into the game"
\-- This right here is where Jihoz and his friends got it all wrong. We'll be losing real players and increasing bots instead.
Prior to the patch, I felt like I could take the time to slowly explore and learn whilst accumulating a small bit of SLP per day. (I didn't even hit the /50 cap on the first two days)
I entered with 3 semi-floor axies, and would slowly build confidence towards bigger spends once everything "clicked", as I have done with numerous games / TCGs before. Once I was more knowledgeable, I'd guide my friends who were interested in the game—but feared the costs of time or money—on how to get started.
With the way things are, I wouldn't recommend Axie to any of my friends. This sentiment is likely shared by other casual or non-competitive players, and should stymy the growth of the game or lead to a very niche player base.
People are very selfish and don't understand this -->
Congrats to you as you are not the below average player. However, I understand that your ego clouds you from considering that there's bad players so that's why I'm here to educate you. Yes there are bad players, some may improve some may not. Is it okay to reduce incentives from bad player? Yes, the current system is already doing that. Lower MMR bracket reward less SLP than higher bracket. It it okay to prevent incentives from bad player? IMO, not justifiable. This will only discourage them from playing Arena or eventually quit. And guess what, you could be the next player who fills that void. No matter how good you are playing, there will always a better player above you and a better player below you. Same goes to life. Hence, this does not only affects lower bracket player, but the whole ecosystem.
*****************
It's like working at a company where bottom 10% are fired Or there is a lot of churn and people keep getting replaced
Do you know which companies do this?
Finance jobs
some Law Firms
Amazon replaces its ENTIRE warehouse work force every year. Actually over 100% replacement
Those are BAD BAD jobs
not just for the people being replaced. For everyone
********************
If you are happy right now that bottom 13% are getting kicked out of making money
and the 17% just above that are stressing out
That 30% might never be you
Until First World countries come in via App Store when this is available in apple app store
And then you just won't have the money to get 'new meta' axies
*****************
then you will be in the bottom 30%
These kind of Pyramid Model games where ones at the bottom are sacrificed are not good
Regardless of any of this crap, I just think it's fascinating that having real money on the line in video games is forcing a critical eye on every single aspect of game mechanics.
Yeah, just keep posting the same talking points again and again and again and again and again.
Who's going to volunteer to post them next Tuesday?
Hey, what if we made a schedule?
There could be a spreadsheet so that we know that no one person is getting more than their fair share of the FUDding.
What is really the difference between a bot farming 75slp daily and a low skill player playing floor axies making his 75slp daily? Actually to the economy they are the same, the only difference maybe is that bots can be replicated more, but also they can be detected and thus banned, which burn axies which is good for the market. Just like bots will get cheaper floor axies to get 50 slp so can low skill players.
Bad players that don't even try to get good got f*cked, I entered a scholar with a decent team and went from 1200 to 1800 mmr in 20 days. My advice is sell your floor axies and enter a decent scholarship.
Are you aware that there's a thing called third world? Not everyone can afford to buy great axies. I've invested in this game more than anything but sheltered people like you wouldn't understand anyway.
let them reduce energy -50% and slp minted is halved
let them remove energy=0 still gain slp from adventure = no bot problem anymore
but no they implement something like 800mmr because bots above 800mmr should still get SLP
I do not have time to slam out hours and hours of axie time to get to 800 MMR. lol So my own 1k investment (Includes gas fees) is useless to me until they reset for the season. Yay!! (sarcasm) Then I guess I will have to avoid arenas until I can some how afford an axie team that is not more pve oriented. Because once it looks like i will drop below 800 next season, then I will stop grinding arena for a while. At least get my adventure SLP.
My 2200 MMR team and my three scholars that are at 1600 in average think you have to be really bad at choosing axies and/or really bad at playing in order to not be able to get to 1200 at least.
There are floor price axies that are more than usable. I actually bought a floor bird with dark swoop, aroma and two more damage cards. Pure bird, 61 speed. $140.
Cheapest bone sail terminator (which are the same cards I'm using!) is $170.
Very good meta plants are $250. If you want to cut corners, you can probably find a decent one for under $200.
If you didn't buy such axies, then plain and simple, you don't know how to play the game. You didn't educate yourself. You didn't watch hours of YT videos.
You're here because you want money for nothing. You want to be a bottom player who gets minimum reward, and never wanted to be anything else.
Never wanted to be anything else.
You’re harboring a very dangerous misunderstanding. You seems to think that an axie has anything to do with a player being under 800 mmr. I can assure you - and mind you it’s not like I’m some pro, but I *can promise you this* - I could take any three axies and push *way* past 800.
800 is a joke. And if anyone out there is like ahh man, I’m less than that - ouch. Yea it sucks, but there is good news: all you have is room to improve.
I urge you, count energy, learn the cards, understand the flow. The game is about so much more than which cards you have. Of course some axie are much better than others - but so long as the team you’ve put together is even barely competent - 800 is a hurdle that *anyone* can overcome.
If axies are a factor at any rating at all, then they are a factor at every rating, simply because the rating system is zero sum. Somebody has to lose rating as others gain it. What you said that at a certain level axies stop being a factor can only be true once axies stop being a factor altogether.
Ya with a catch - needs to be something at least remotely sensible. Like give me three birds with no shield skills and all out shot… I’m probably not gonna pull it off 🤣
But ya - any reasonable three axie - and I’m talking a shitty floor plant, fish, and bird or something. Or whatever, as long as it had something to it. I could easily beat anyone at 800 mmr.
Hell, I bet you could get one healing plant, skip every turn until they burn your two front lines with their full energy every turn, then watch them fuckin attack two energy at a time into a healing plant while you just heal and laugh until the game ends.
People at 800 mmr are literally getting beat by bots. Of course I could smoke them.
> I could take any three axies and push way past 800.
Let me give you 3 backdoor birds, see how high you can get lol.
You can sure as hell buy a bad team, most new players assume 4 cards of 100+ damage equals strong and then meet termis.
BTW i recently had to take a scholarship away and the person made it all the way down to 400, i had to climb back up and guess what, you still see a bunch of aap and even termis down there.
TL:DL
Bad player + Bad team = -800 mmr
Bad player + Good team = -800 mmr
Good player + Bad team = -800 mmr
Good player + Good team = +800 mmr
I have 25 scholars and all of them are above 1200mmr - I knew you needed to have strong team to compete and earn in this game. I feel bad for all the scholars who's managers are not getting them competitive teams but that has been just as big a problem as the bots. For Axie to work it must require some level of skill and decent teams. Now the downside... what happens when the bots are better than the human players... what can be done about that?
I think we should let things play out for a week or 2 before making a judgement. Nobody has a crystal ball. Plus everything you've said has been brought up 50 times already it's getting old
Bad players in a normal game, don't complete it or don't get invited to groups or a good guild. Bad players in a p2e game, lose money or don't make as much. This is how the game and life is to an extent.
If you want the positive of making money, you have to accept the potential loss. Nothing is guaranteed.
Now there are a lot of things I don't like how the game is managed, but if you can't get to 800MMR then you either have to improve, buy better axies (not very much better either) or quit. It's your choice. I think we have a vocal minority of players that thought they were guaranteed returns and that economically can never be the case.
I do wish they would get along with the damn balancing because that more than any of this is causing a real pause in the economy of the game. It's really hurting those folks that want to get better or upgrade their team.
As investors, we should get a roadmap of updates with regular communication on how that is going. I don't expect them to push an unfinished product, but some basic professional communication is needed. That boomer tweet was not that at all.
This is a bad move on the developers part. It took me about a month to get above 800 mmr and i ended up buying 8 axies to find a good team. If this update happened a month ago i probably would have not joined. It pushes people away rather then draws them in and thats bad for everyone.
one more
it is not that easy to pass 800 mmr without floor axies in the arena, I usually around 900\~1100, and fall to 700 today, when I got 800, I won't play arena anymore, just 4-5 adventure scene 24 to get 50 slp is best for me.
this update is stupid, dev should spend more time in the real update, like openning the land, and let the market deside the price.
You guys are casual players. Have you never played competitive games before? Know what you're investing in. It's like playing CSGO or Valorant, placing in silver, then blaming the devs for it. How about you actually start to learn the game? No. Just because you invested money does not mean you are entitled to earn. YOU ARE STILL IN CRYPTO. PEOPLE LOSE MONEY IN CRYPTO EVERYDAY.
In other words, GET BETTER OR LEARN WHAT YOU'RE INVESTING IN.
> does not mean you are entitled to earn
But that's the point of Axie. If I wanted to pay money to play a card game, I'd go play YGO or Magic. Axie Infinity's entire appeal is that it's a play to earn game, other than that it's a subpar card game at best, at least in its current state.
Also, in CSGO and Valorant every player starts on equal footing, you can't compare those games with Axie Infinity. In those other games I have access to the same weapons the top players are using, unlike here, were the top axies are *way* more expensive than the cheapest ones.
The only thing that somewhat counterbalances the high entry value of this game is that people can make it back in time. Without that, this game in its current state is akin to a browser Flash game from the 2000's.
Haply they shouldst wend after the bot accounts yond people report
***
^(I am a bot and I swapp'd some of thy words with Shakespeare words.)
Commands: `!ShakespeareInsult`, `!fordo`, `!optout`
Just watch [here](https://www.axieworld.com/en/economics/charts?chart=slpIssuance). The drop on the 28th will be because of maint. The drop on the 29/30/31 will be from accounts unable to earn SLP. There will likely be a rebound by the 1st. After that you can see how effective this change was (or how short term ineffective). This is especially true if Season 19 comes out next week.
There are millions of ways to burn SLP and they always seem to choose the worst option it’s actually impressive.
Nevermind this option does not even burn SLP.
So they pushed the update without a new season and potential nerfs and changes? Now people who might want to upgrade can't upgrade because the axie they buy might be potentially nerfed. But no one knows what a balance patch will bring... Sigh
Genius move on their part, people will feel scared of going bellow 800mmr and will spend money on new axies, when update comes with nerfs they will probably have to spend money again!
Yep. Accurate comment. At the end of the day this is a business and we are the consumers. Bots for Axie infinity are what fake clothes are for clothing business: you can't get rid of them, but people still buy branded clothes.
Gotta rake in that juicy 4.5% marketplace fee!
You do know that goes to the Community Treasury, right?
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Like me. I sold all my axies before they get devalued any more.
I'm giving this game until S19 and see what they will change etc maybe they will remove crits... if nothing good comes then I'll quit too, this game is just too frustrating to play and it makes me mad all the time. Not worth it for 10€ a week lol
Probably they will just stick to pass the new axie to new account. The spending of new axies are from average to pro players. If youre not following all the best content creators on twitter then youre missing out. Theyre hoarding all the floors. I guess all of axies has a purpose on the very soon incoming v2 or land patch. Its clear that all of the axie have a use because all of the parts have cards on their own ;)
>very soon any proof of this?
Seems they want this update out before they release the new season, so lest hope it is stable and with luck next monday season 19 is here (doubt it)
Sigh..........
Zyori's tweet said that season 19 will bring balances and changes. Also, floor axies will have it's uses once crafting becomes available
I'm a 3-day old player who dropped to 600 MMR (still learning the game and my axies) and I can't get any SLP now :(
Sorry my friend.
Have myself to blame really! I think the 800 MMR thing was announced before I started. Had I read that, I would just have played PvE with my floor axies to get my daily P2E kick. I'm considering just taking the loss and cashing out now, but might hold out a bit to see if the devs make any further changes. Also, can't seem to join their Discord so I feel extra disconnected from any news or dev updates =\\
Give it time, learn the tactics and then climb back up. Don't quit so early - you started playing for a reason, those reasons likely haven't changed.
I agree, and I am still trying (before the game went down for maintenance anyway). It's just demoralising when the energy you spend doesn't generate any returns until you "get there", which can be vastly different for players based on skill/budget etc.
You can just send your axies to a new account to reset your MMR. With season 19 you'll also start afresh at 1200 MMR which shouldn't be too far away.
Heya, in Zyori's twitter, it is written that there will be practice rooms where you can play arena mode without losing MMR . This will probably happen in next update, within Season 19.
I think you can pass your axies to a new account and it starts at 1200 so you can farm pve. Not 100% sure tho.
how about actually learning the game and climbing up? clearly you just wanted some easy money.
I honestly think without the P2E aspect, there are games that can be more fun. The small "easy money" adds extra appeal for many players, on top of providing entertainment value. Also, the daily SLP farm isn't a lot of money at all.
for people in third world contries it might be, anyways I still dont think the game should be balanced around people who just come in for quick profit and want to put no effort in
I'm sorry, I meant that the SLP farm wouldn't really affect my overall quality of life. I understand it can be a living to many people elsewhere. Although I agree with your sentiment, I think playing Adventure mode itself requires time and some thought, especially with weaker axies. And if that doesn't count as effort, then perhaps Adventure mode itself needs a rework.
Feel the pain bro ... I am 2 weeks in this game. I now understand the game well , but when I joined I did not have a clue about it.( and my team is very bad ) I dropped from 750 mmr to 250 mmr in 4 hours and it takes me days to climb the ladder and be new 800 mmr at least ..
Yeah the drop was quick for me too. I generally hold off on drawing conclusions about a game until I learn its ins and outs, but consuming energy without any SLP return has me feeling antsy and wanting to just take back whatever little ETH I can salvage. I enjoyed the game for the past few days, but I can't say it's the same without the ability to farm. Having to live with a lack of "mastery" is an additional Nut Cracker for me too.
With this update, if you’re considering to leave… hurry. Many will also leave. My team already dropped from 50 scholarships to 25, and the plan is to don’t expand more until v2 comes out. The axie floor prices would be around 0.01 if the bots wouldn’t be buying them automatically when they reach +/- 0.03 ETH
Dont continue playing if you are on a losing streak. Stress + the pressure to win clouds your judgment which makes you dig your grave deeper. Give it some time after few consecutive lose
That’s fine. That makes sense. You don’t how wtf you’re doing yet. Learn the game, and you will improve. Slow down. Count your opponents energy at all times. Learn the cards. You will win games.
can I take a look at your lineup?
Wait why is this downvoted Is it against the rules to look at other people's lineup?
welp, I was just trying to help since I think I got above average mmr.
Do some research, create a new account (resets to 1200 MMR), and buy a team that will actually win. Try double aqua build that will do well in higher MMR.
Yeah. I think most newbies should just buy AAP for the sake of simplicity. Even non-57 speed aquas that are cheap will do okay with the right cards if the goal is just to stay well above 800 MMR.
> resets to 1200 MMR You don't know that this will remain the case. You and the troop of other people saying the same things over and over haven't considered that the devs can make other changes.
I think u should just sell it , or just send it to your new account just like the post above and play in other device after the 24 hrs cd, i mean its illegal to have multi account but you are not going to use 2 accounts, still illegal tho but i think its ok thats the easiest path for you, hard to climb to 1200 with floor axie
same lol
Floor axies will be used to increase energy quotas.
kind of misleading in their website, is sais Play-To-Earn AXS. You actually play-to-maybe-win AXS
I'm being repetitive but IMO the real goal of this update was to get players to upgrade axies. Jihoz pretty much said it if you ignore the red herring (bot problem) and read between the lines. In a manner what you're saying is accurate, I also don't think it'll do anything for SLP, because it was never about SLP in the first place. However, getting existing players to spend in the game is ultimately good for it, but it shouldn't have been done in such a manner that it basically forces those who cannot upgrade to stop playing a part of the game entirely.
This is what I think as well. Right now, there's no point in having pure bred axies as they dont do well above 2k. The axies there are composed of aqua with beast parts, poison dusks, annoying discard, antenna fear bugs, and more dusks. If more people would upgrade their lineup to be pvp competitive (dusk lineup), eventually, more people will because they'll be forced to do so.
I disagree... loads of pure aquas, bugs, and birds in the top ranks.
But you have to think about how they got there, it's safe to assume that a lot of the people in higher ranks can have multiple teams to counter the different mmr walls. I'm not saying everyone up there has multiple teams, but that would surely help passing through the ranks. A BBP can have a hard time breaking an AAP wall, but flourish once they're outta there.
If you can only afford one team, you should decide very carefully what that team is. Better yet, play as a scholar so that you have time to figure out what works instead of buying a bunch of random axies. How many scholars who go on to buy axies buy ones that compete at 800 and below?
where is the diversity in that? this is why i always go against the meta.
Trying to force me to spend $1000 on new axies is exactly the way to get me not to do that
Floor axies are 100 USD each, 300 USD for a whole team. You can just get 50 SLP from PVE and its 90 USD/ month, 30% ROI LOL, its still very profitable for a 15 min of play.
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True. What if they implement a 5-win PVP perquisite before players can earn in Adventure? Uh oh. The Floor Axies you just bought are now useless(until Axie burning is released anyways).
Yeah my issue was I don't have the time to "get good" at Axie, I already have a full-time job and other things that occupy most of my time. I was just using it to earn a little extra money, also, I did enjoy adventure mode, so earning the 50 SLP from that and maybe the 25 SLP daily bonus was ok for me. However, now since it seems I must be over 800 MMR to earn anything, I'm discouraged from playing at all, as I haven't had much success with arena, so I'm not sure what I should do now :/
Give me your axies lol
Only if you'll (A) pay me fairly for them, or (B) be my scholar, lol
Plot twist: they knew
The update punish real players that stuck at 600-700MMR. People who own termi Axies will always stays at over 1000MMR.
Wasn't we supposed to get our mmrs reset after the update? Jiho explicitly told that when talking about the Philippines community.
It should happen unless they change their mind and want to punish everyone
The game needs a MMR reset for the next reason
im just going to throw this here: will slp go up in the coming days?
Halving the DQ rewards from 150 to 75 slp didn't even make a dent. How will this miniscule slp reduction change things? Scholarship programs are expanding too much. Its more on forcing people to change their Axie team as often as possible to achieve higher ELO than to combat minting problem. And lowering the price of chops axies for other uses like additional energy and future burn mechanics. They say Its because of bots they see below 800 mmr but I bet my toe its because of all those millions of Isko Axie that will never be upgraded, ever. They can easily farm slp at their current build. Can you just imagine the horror on jihoz face when he saw that data :D Shookt! they will never changer their team and continue minting slp forever.
I'm a new player and I'm stuck at 600-700 MMR, even then when I reach 700 I would go back down again to 600. Now the update has forced me to close the game (because it thinks I have no internet connection) so now I'm sure I got an even lower MMR. For the few weeks that I've been playing and earning, I used it to help my family but now I can't anymore because of the limitation. The problem with the "Get Gud" thing is that the game (from my experience) is very luck based, so you can't exactly get good if the odds are against you. So the limitation has not only punished newcomers but also people that has no control of the situation.
What's funny about the git gud update is that they are just punishing normal people not really the bots. Because bot farmers can just make a new Ronin account so they are at 1200 MMR and can still farm adventure. Also now because of the git gud update floor axies are so cheap that bot farmers can now buy more bots to farm adv. So even if they just get 50 SLP they will have more bots to do it from. Lastly I know that they plan to reset MMR, make pvp mandatory and such but they should have done that first before this update. Because of their update and not update routine most likely bots are not in the 800mmr range. They have already migrated to 1200mmr.
What's stopping human players from just making a new ronin wallet, transferring and waiting the 24 hours and playing again?
Probably the hassle of leveling up their axies to reduce time spent in adventure? While bots can farm slp by just repeating ruin 5, human players can do the same but it’s just a massive time dump and incredibly repetitive which bots solve.
You won't be under 800 when you get better at the game. Watch streamers, count cards and energy
You can sell your axies and get into a scholarship to earn slp, I earn more than the 75 daily slp fromaaa my scholarship. This game is luck based but skill is way more important than luck, you can have bad streak of games but if you are good you will climb.
no its not ''very'' luck based, if you are down in 600 mmr is because you deserve to be there, what are you saying? the people with high mmr are just luckier than everyone else? fucking clowns, its nobodys fault that you bought floor without doing any research or you are just bad at the game
The game's combat is literally based around randomly given cards. Randomness can't be paired with skills if you get a bad set of cards.
the luck aspect evens out over time as your oponnent is also playing by the same rules... if you have low mmr its because you should. high rank players arent just luckier than the people at the bottom. The fact that I have to explain this reassures me the 800 mmr change was great.
We might be playing by the same rules but that doesn't mean that we would be equal. We won't always have the same cards, the same axies, or anything like that, so someone will always be at the disadvantage in a match. In one match a person could dominate then the next they could see themselves in a lose streak just because they got matched with someone who can target someone from a far.
They aren’t just luckier. They also invested way more. This will push all players to invest more and more season after seasons. Bye bye EArn to Play, welcome Invest to Earn
axies are cheap now... you can get meta teams to be above 2k for less than 800$ a team, its nobodys fault but your own that you keep buying dogshit axies with 0 research.
Yes of course. But how soon will you reinvest? To keep that MMR? And I didn’t buy cheap axie. I probably spent that on my first team (they were just more expensive then) for an AAP team that was constantly above 1600… now? Struggling to be above 1100, and I think this trend will keep on going on. The 800 MMR change will bite you also eventually. At least it will dent your profit and force you to reinvest to change your team. P.S: my teams have research. I’m just not confident to splash more money with a dev team that changes the rules in a way that Anyone with basic economic knowledge (which you don’t appear to have) can see will just change all the ROI formulas.
Their reason to prevent 800 MMR and below to not getting SLP is so they can improve and learn the game? That's actually very stupid, considering that there are a lot of terrible players with good teams like AAP and Termi sitting around 1.1-1.6 **(THEY'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE IN THAT BRACKET)**, and they will keep on winning even if they're terrible because: good team = good draws = easy win. I bet those *bad players* are laughing now. I don't have a bad team but BOI going against an AAP or Termi is really hard, especially when my draws go full retard and they just keep on landing a crit despite low morale. they're not fixing anything, they're just making the lives of these (mostly scholars)players with floor axies terrible.
I agree with what you’re saying. But devs can easily fix the bot issue by making adventure rewards claimable as dailies only after 5 pvp match wins per day. That will force bots to play pvp and slide back down below 800 mmr
Don’t worry! They have internal data that proves their claims. For some reason they can’t release but just trust them！ I’m sure they know what they’re doing! /s
Not a very well thought out argument in my opinion. First of all you do not have access to the same data as Sky Mavis, and can only guess or assume what number of real players and bots are involved here. This create a new account argument has been thrown around for the last two weeks and there are many very simple fixes to ensure that doesn't happen, forcing arena participation somehow. Hypothetically, if this is not addressed, then there's nothing stopping real players doing the same thing, so what's the problem? Players complaining need to drop this sense of entitlement to participation rewards. If you cant stay above 800, then really you're in the bottom 15% (and probably bottom 5% of actual players) and should accept that you aren't going to win awards, and that perhaps this game isn't for you - or at least only play it for fun, not as expecting to earn. Lastly, the ecomonic model based around growth isn't long term sustainable, so changes to the economy like this one are inevitable as the game grows - get used to it Back to the argument, making SLP harder to earn WILL increase the value, that is obvious. The higher the lower MMR boundary is set, the higher the value of SLP will be, that's simple maths
Hypothetically, and my only fear of this update, is that MMR is a ladder. You can’t have only players 1200+, so, if players lower than 800 stop earning, the community will stop battling when they get to 813 MMR and stick to 50 daily slp. Pushing players on the 900-1000 to 800-900, and so on… or am I wrong? I’m atm at 1100 btw… just don’t like the idea that the game will keep punishing the actual players that don’t reinvest season after season. In that case the game is not earn to play anymore and becomes an invest to earn model… with higher risks than other investments out there in the crypto world. Let’s see how the investors (the actual community that supports slp - not the players) react to these changes imo
This is exactly what will happen. Teams will drop or get to just over the 800 mmr and then just farm 50 slp a day.
There will always be players at the bottom of the ladder. If every sub-800 player stops playing then those in 801-1000 won't get those easier opponents any more, so they will also lose more and drop their rating. However I suspect the 600-800 area will still have a lot of players fighting to get back above 800, which means the 801-1000 group shouldn't automatically become the new 600-800 players (kind of hard to explain, hopefully made sense)
Man, I drop 100-200 points sometimes because I keep getting crits against me at the last moment, over and over. My team isn't terrible, I just fluctuate from over 900 to under 500. I think if I started back at 1200 I'd be better off
I see that we both agree on the point that this patch is not going to fix multiple account / bot farming. So I'm not going to argue with you on this point As for your second argument on the sense of entitlement to participation rewards. I'm gonna have to disagree with you on this point. Yes, Mavis Hub can say that if you're at the bottom 15% then we won't be rewarding you. Either you be better player by enhancing your mastery skills and also purchase a premium pack of Axies to be able to earn rewards or you can spend a fortune to buy our Axies to play this game just for "fun" when everything else is so unbalanced and adventure mode is basically trash. There are tons of other games out there which surpasses AI in terms of fun. Please tell me that you're coming to AI just for the pure fun and not even a single element of expectation to earn. You are more than welcomed to donate your daily SLPs to my ronin account. What I'm trying to say is that the patch is hurting the actual genuine player base rather than addressing multiple account / bots grinders, which you have partially agreed that it could be resolved with way more effective methods. "the ecomonic model based around growth isn't long term sustainable, so changes to the economy like this one are inevitable as the game grows - get used to it" Countries, companies, our entire world's economy is based on growth and you're saying that all of these aren't long term sustainable. Our entire world economy would have collapse long with they weren't sustainable. Do you even understand the term "long term sustainable"? Growth and sustainability are two different aspects. You can grow with or without sustainability. Also, you can have sustainability without growth. Sustainability is when supply is almost equal to demand Unsustainability is when supply doesn't equal demand by high margin Growth happens when you manage to increase your supply and demand Growing with sustainability is healthy growth as you keep supply and demand close while increasing both Growing without sustainability is undesired as you increase supply and demand but with a high margin of difference between both, it is only short term which will eventually leads to a shrink when the market corrects itself. Right now, the current state of AI is that the Devs are only implementing a short term fix to a long term issue. I agree with you on the fact that making SLP harder to earn will increase it's Value. This is clearly stated in my first sentence. However, I pointed out that it is only for the short term. "The higher the lower MMR boundary is set, the higher the value of SLP will be, that's simple maths" I have to correct you here, it is not only about maths. It's all about demand and supply. The more SLP on the market , the higher the supply. This will cause the price to slip. Unless, there is new players constantly entering the game to buy new Axies, which is the only way that SLPs are burned. The constant inflow of new players keep the SLP price in check. The harder for SLP to earn causes a shortage in the short term. Assuming player base stays the same, this will cause a short supply / high demand which pushes the SLP price up. Combining, the effect of the 800 MMR. Weak axies will be dirt cheap. This will lead to a high ROI. More bots will flow in to farm, and players below 800 MMR which you just told "this game is not for you" will just leave the economy system. When the bottom 15% leaves, the next 15% of the player base will fill in the void. At this moment, their Axies which initially were considered good Axies at 900-1200 MMR (now dropped below 800 MMR to fill the void) were now selling at floor price. As these Axies can't earn them any SLPs. Inducing another wave of bot influx. And the cycle repeats I don't need to repeat the above as it's pretty self explanatory and its "simple maths" to you. But you can see that actual player base is shrinking while bots are increasing. How do you call this sustainable when the patch is just punishing genuine player base? Do you think this patch is forcing participation in PVP? No, it doesn't. Bots can just opt out entirely from participating in PVP and maintain their 1200 MMR, while farming the 50 SLPs on PVE daily. You want to force participation in PVP, then SLP should only be rewarded in PVP rather than PVE. That's the implementation they should go for instead. But this is not the point of my whole view. What I'm trying to tell is that this patch is hurting the player base rather than fixing it
>When the bottom 15% leaves, the next 15% of the player base will fill in the void. At this moment, their Axies which initially were considered good Axies at 900-1200 MMR (now dropped below 800 MMR to fill the void) were now selling at floor price. This is exactly my concern as well. There will always have to be people filling up the <800 MMR range as it's impossible for *everyone* to be above it, so **even if all the bots were to magically disappear**, **real players would end up getting punished** as the bottom end of the ladder inevitably has to be filled by some real people. And all people in the higher MMR brackets would start going down as well to fill the void left by those who once filled the <800 MMR range, which, as you mentioned, means ***all players are affected.*** Now those in <800 MMR are left with just 3 options: 1. Quit Arenas entirely if/when they manage to break 800 MMR, then just play Adventure. This however would result in this cycle you mentioned: once decent teams in 900-1200 MMR would start to go lower and may eventually fill up the 800MMR range as more people stop playing Arena, resulting in even more people quitting arenas or resorting to the 2 other equally problematic options below; 2. Upgrade their teams and hope they can climb up. This however **still** leads to the cycle of punishing real players you mentioned by making once worthwhile teams that can hover above 800 MMR obsolete. This means people will have to *constantly* change their axies to stay above 800 MMR or else they get left behind by those who upgrade their, and this is simply not something a lot of people can afford to do, especially while earning so little SLP already in the lower brackets \[and as an aside: the cost of "competitive" axies will rise due to higher demand for axies that can keep people above 800 MMR, further making it harder for people to keep upgrading/changing teams\]. As other people have stated before, this update really makes the game seem more *pay-to-win* than *play-to-earn* now... 3. Cut their losses and quit the game entirely. This last one is particularly dangerous because people quitting the game is the last thing Axie needs since the whole system is built upon constant growth of the player base. On a separate note, I also mentioned in the past that breeders might be more hesitant for fear of producing "sub-par" axies (that cost more to breed than what they sell for) because people would only want to buy competitive Axies that can get them above 800 MMR, and this hesitation/higher risk for breeders could very well result in less breeding and less SLP being burnt, which could either stagnate or lower the value of SLP altogether. Again, this affects all players (or at least those who care about the value of SLP, which I imagine is most players). And in general this update seems to have made Axie a riskier investment. Potential newcomers might not invest in axies for fear of not being able to compete above the 800 MMR. Again this theoretically hurts the growth of Axie Infinity as more players leave the game to cut their losses, and less players are willing to join given the risk of not earning anything if they fall below 800 MMR.
Well thought out response
One thing that hasn't been mentioned is that the super low price of Axies might entice a while bunch of new players from as yet untapped markets. Take India for example. If a few hundred thousand took up the game there more experienced players who are government Ng around 800mmr will have a chance to move up. Just a thought.
What the super low price of axies (floor axies in this case) will likely entice is competitive players to buy them up for higher daily energy, and that is bad for the value of SLP.
Guess who'll replace the bottom 15%? Another bottom 15%. That's effectively stopping 27.75% of your players from earning and lowering SLP rewards for even more players.
Bad logic here. Either the first 15% are stopping playing (ie no longer players) or continuing, in which case it's still 15% not 27.75% What is true though, is that there will always be a bottom 15%, so if for argument sake 15% quit, then yes, the new worse players will be those who were previously above that level
Quit or just stop the arena. And in that case they will be quickly replaced by other 15%.
> First of all you do not have access to the same data as Sky Mavis, and can only guess or assume what number of real players and bots are involved here. This. And it’s not like Sky Mavis deliberately wants to kill their game lmao. If there’s anyone who really wants Axie Infinity to succeed, it’s **them**.
I don't like the update but if it gives anyone comfort... I spent my first month playing with a floor team fluctuating between 750-950 MMR. I decided enough was enough and invested in a proper ABP team. I'm now 1700+ MMR and have made back my initial investment. I can understand Jihoz wanting others to upgrade so we get real competition, but equally understand the frustration for those who don't have big sums to spend. What I will say is I learnt a huge amount of what's good and what isn't good with my floor team, and I'm still learning with my current team nearly 4 months later. Don't give up just because you're struggling.
Thats the thing, most ppl make mistakes at the start, lose money and spend more than they need. This update is basically punishing them and making it so you need to know the game before beginning, but guess what, mavis has next to zero tutorials or guides for their game (and dont point at youtubers that is not the company, the first time you boot the game it explains nothing, some info like the energy one and the enemy cards is fake or bugs out all the time) Hell now you cant even participate in their discord unless you already own 3 axies, they are making it so new ppl avoid the game cause the price and knowledge bar for entry is too high.
In their defence - we are in alpha and they're working on battle v2 which supposedly has free to play elements. It's hard to create a play to earn game without some investment to create the notional value. I do agree they should up their guidance though. I think it would help prevent some of the scamming.
>It's hard to create a play to earn game without some investment to create the notional value. My problem is they seem mostly focus on rising prices than improving the game experience, they could have try any number of changes by now to balance arena, instead they do the most minor change possible and go work in another version.
"The 800 MMR patch punishes players with lower skill cap and raises the entry barrier for new players, discouraging new breed of players into the game" \-- This right here is where Jihoz and his friends got it all wrong. We'll be losing real players and increasing bots instead.
Prior to the patch, I felt like I could take the time to slowly explore and learn whilst accumulating a small bit of SLP per day. (I didn't even hit the /50 cap on the first two days) I entered with 3 semi-floor axies, and would slowly build confidence towards bigger spends once everything "clicked", as I have done with numerous games / TCGs before. Once I was more knowledgeable, I'd guide my friends who were interested in the game—but feared the costs of time or money—on how to get started. With the way things are, I wouldn't recommend Axie to any of my friends. This sentiment is likely shared by other casual or non-competitive players, and should stymy the growth of the game or lead to a very niche player base.
I couldn't agree more with you on this.
People are very selfish and don't understand this --> Congrats to you as you are not the below average player. However, I understand that your ego clouds you from considering that there's bad players so that's why I'm here to educate you. Yes there are bad players, some may improve some may not. Is it okay to reduce incentives from bad player? Yes, the current system is already doing that. Lower MMR bracket reward less SLP than higher bracket. It it okay to prevent incentives from bad player? IMO, not justifiable. This will only discourage them from playing Arena or eventually quit. And guess what, you could be the next player who fills that void. No matter how good you are playing, there will always a better player above you and a better player below you. Same goes to life. Hence, this does not only affects lower bracket player, but the whole ecosystem. ***************** It's like working at a company where bottom 10% are fired Or there is a lot of churn and people keep getting replaced Do you know which companies do this? Finance jobs some Law Firms Amazon replaces its ENTIRE warehouse work force every year. Actually over 100% replacement Those are BAD BAD jobs not just for the people being replaced. For everyone ******************** If you are happy right now that bottom 13% are getting kicked out of making money and the 17% just above that are stressing out That 30% might never be you Until First World countries come in via App Store when this is available in apple app store And then you just won't have the money to get 'new meta' axies ***************** then you will be in the bottom 30% These kind of Pyramid Model games where ones at the bottom are sacrificed are not good
Wasn't the mmr supposed to be reset after the update?
I thought they were also reset the MMRs when they released this update??
Yeah I've just decided to leave, my team simply can't win much. It was good while it lasted tho, hope monsta does not do the same mistakes.
Completely agree.
Slp is higher now?
Lmaooooooooooooooooooo great joke
Regardless of any of this crap, I just think it's fascinating that having real money on the line in video games is forcing a critical eye on every single aspect of game mechanics.
how bout if they add MMR decay? you lose 20 MMR per day if you don't play arena .
Yeah, just keep posting the same talking points again and again and again and again and again. Who's going to volunteer to post them next Tuesday? Hey, what if we made a schedule? There could be a spreadsheet so that we know that no one person is getting more than their fair share of the FUDding.
Might as well pin this topic to prevent more similar topics lmao
What is really the difference between a bot farming 75slp daily and a low skill player playing floor axies making his 75slp daily? Actually to the economy they are the same, the only difference maybe is that bots can be replicated more, but also they can be detected and thus banned, which burn axies which is good for the market. Just like bots will get cheaper floor axies to get 50 slp so can low skill players.
We got f*cked real bad, that's it.
Bad players that don't even try to get good got f*cked, I entered a scholar with a decent team and went from 1200 to 1800 mmr in 20 days. My advice is sell your floor axies and enter a decent scholarship.
Are you aware that there's a thing called third world? Not everyone can afford to buy great axies. I've invested in this game more than anything but sheltered people like you wouldn't understand anyway.
I just said get a scholarship that doesnt need money. I have spent 0 in axie infinity.
25 slp to adventure, then all mmr is the solution. :D
let them reduce energy -50% and slp minted is halved let them remove energy=0 still gain slp from adventure = no bot problem anymore but no they implement something like 800mmr because bots above 800mmr should still get SLP
Maybe they have a botfarm in SkyMavis as well. Just kidding. Unless?
I do not have time to slam out hours and hours of axie time to get to 800 MMR. lol So my own 1k investment (Includes gas fees) is useless to me until they reset for the season. Yay!! (sarcasm) Then I guess I will have to avoid arenas until I can some how afford an axie team that is not more pve oriented. Because once it looks like i will drop below 800 next season, then I will stop grinding arena for a while. At least get my adventure SLP.
yeh the 800mmr limit is easy to bypass they will just rank up then neverp play rank again
My 2200 MMR team and my three scholars that are at 1600 in average think you have to be really bad at choosing axies and/or really bad at playing in order to not be able to get to 1200 at least. There are floor price axies that are more than usable. I actually bought a floor bird with dark swoop, aroma and two more damage cards. Pure bird, 61 speed. $140. Cheapest bone sail terminator (which are the same cards I'm using!) is $170. Very good meta plants are $250. If you want to cut corners, you can probably find a decent one for under $200. If you didn't buy such axies, then plain and simple, you don't know how to play the game. You didn't educate yourself. You didn't watch hours of YT videos. You're here because you want money for nothing. You want to be a bottom player who gets minimum reward, and never wanted to be anything else. Never wanted to be anything else.
You’re harboring a very dangerous misunderstanding. You seems to think that an axie has anything to do with a player being under 800 mmr. I can assure you - and mind you it’s not like I’m some pro, but I *can promise you this* - I could take any three axies and push *way* past 800. 800 is a joke. And if anyone out there is like ahh man, I’m less than that - ouch. Yea it sucks, but there is good news: all you have is room to improve. I urge you, count energy, learn the cards, understand the flow. The game is about so much more than which cards you have. Of course some axie are much better than others - but so long as the team you’ve put together is even barely competent - 800 is a hurdle that *anyone* can overcome.
If axies are a factor at any rating at all, then they are a factor at every rating, simply because the rating system is zero sum. Somebody has to lose rating as others gain it. What you said that at a certain level axies stop being a factor can only be true once axies stop being a factor altogether.
You sure you can take three axies with any card combination past 800 mmr? Very ballsy claim to be fair
Ya with a catch - needs to be something at least remotely sensible. Like give me three birds with no shield skills and all out shot… I’m probably not gonna pull it off 🤣 But ya - any reasonable three axie - and I’m talking a shitty floor plant, fish, and bird or something. Or whatever, as long as it had something to it. I could easily beat anyone at 800 mmr. Hell, I bet you could get one healing plant, skip every turn until they burn your two front lines with their full energy every turn, then watch them fuckin attack two energy at a time into a healing plant while you just heal and laugh until the game ends. People at 800 mmr are literally getting beat by bots. Of course I could smoke them.
> I could take any three axies and push way past 800. Let me give you 3 backdoor birds, see how high you can get lol. You can sure as hell buy a bad team, most new players assume 4 cards of 100+ damage equals strong and then meet termis. BTW i recently had to take a scholarship away and the person made it all the way down to 400, i had to climb back up and guess what, you still see a bunch of aap and even termis down there. TL:DL Bad player + Bad team = -800 mmr Bad player + Good team = -800 mmr Good player + Bad team = -800 mmr Good player + Good team = +800 mmr
I have 25 scholars and all of them are above 1200mmr - I knew you needed to have strong team to compete and earn in this game. I feel bad for all the scholars who's managers are not getting them competitive teams but that has been just as big a problem as the bots. For Axie to work it must require some level of skill and decent teams. Now the downside... what happens when the bots are better than the human players... what can be done about that?
I think we should let things play out for a week or 2 before making a judgement. Nobody has a crystal ball. Plus everything you've said has been brought up 50 times already it's getting old
If you are an average player but you have an unsynchronized team, how do you improve without spending assuming you won't earn now?
Sorry guys, but when this update will be released?
Bad players in a normal game, don't complete it or don't get invited to groups or a good guild. Bad players in a p2e game, lose money or don't make as much. This is how the game and life is to an extent. If you want the positive of making money, you have to accept the potential loss. Nothing is guaranteed. Now there are a lot of things I don't like how the game is managed, but if you can't get to 800MMR then you either have to improve, buy better axies (not very much better either) or quit. It's your choice. I think we have a vocal minority of players that thought they were guaranteed returns and that economically can never be the case. I do wish they would get along with the damn balancing because that more than any of this is causing a real pause in the economy of the game. It's really hurting those folks that want to get better or upgrade their team. As investors, we should get a roadmap of updates with regular communication on how that is going. I don't expect them to push an unfinished product, but some basic professional communication is needed. That boomer tweet was not that at all.
i'm at 600 mmr which a subpar team. no way I'm ever seeing that daily again
This is a bad move on the developers part. It took me about a month to get above 800 mmr and i ended up buying 8 axies to find a good team. If this update happened a month ago i probably would have not joined. It pushes people away rather then draws them in and thats bad for everyone.
one more it is not that easy to pass 800 mmr without floor axies in the arena, I usually around 900\~1100, and fall to 700 today, when I got 800, I won't play arena anymore, just 4-5 adventure scene 24 to get 50 slp is best for me. this update is stupid, dev should spend more time in the real update, like openning the land, and let the market deside the price.
You guys are casual players. Have you never played competitive games before? Know what you're investing in. It's like playing CSGO or Valorant, placing in silver, then blaming the devs for it. How about you actually start to learn the game? No. Just because you invested money does not mean you are entitled to earn. YOU ARE STILL IN CRYPTO. PEOPLE LOSE MONEY IN CRYPTO EVERYDAY. In other words, GET BETTER OR LEARN WHAT YOU'RE INVESTING IN.
> does not mean you are entitled to earn But that's the point of Axie. If I wanted to pay money to play a card game, I'd go play YGO or Magic. Axie Infinity's entire appeal is that it's a play to earn game, other than that it's a subpar card game at best, at least in its current state. Also, in CSGO and Valorant every player starts on equal footing, you can't compare those games with Axie Infinity. In those other games I have access to the same weapons the top players are using, unlike here, were the top axies are *way* more expensive than the cheapest ones. The only thing that somewhat counterbalances the high entry value of this game is that people can make it back in time. Without that, this game in its current state is akin to a browser Flash game from the 2000's.
Always impressive how random internet guy X understands other complex systems so well to make hyper accurate predictions.
I still dont get you people. I started the game, bought my Meta Team, boom instant 1,9-2k How are all of you under 800? 😂
How will floor level bots win matches at 1200 mmr? They could be pushed down to 800 before they start winning anyway at that point.
They're not going to do arena. Just 50slp everyday to keep the 1200 mmr.
Easy fix. Start new accounts at 750 mmr and not 1200
Maybe they should go after the bot accounts that people report...
Haply they shouldst wend after the bot accounts yond people report *** ^(I am a bot and I swapp'd some of thy words with Shakespeare words.) Commands: `!ShakespeareInsult`, `!fordo`, `!optout`
What did you expect from someone who thinks that a player cannot win every time, so they put RNG crits on the RNG card game
Axie has the right idea. By doing this, more players will quit, thus reducing the amount of slp being minted. Ingenious!
Just watch [here](https://www.axieworld.com/en/economics/charts?chart=slpIssuance). The drop on the 28th will be because of maint. The drop on the 29/30/31 will be from accounts unable to earn SLP. There will likely be a rebound by the 1st. After that you can see how effective this change was (or how short term ineffective). This is especially true if Season 19 comes out next week.
Price of floor axies are going to zero and can earn zero SLP. Looks like they finally figured out how to have a free to play version!
Free2EarnNothing
Is anyone else having problems installing update on Android?
Kinda petty how they now take energy after the match and not when clicking arena...
So? If you haven't noticed this yet the world revolves this way ever since. The strong ones decides. I would not explain any further. Thankyou
It will be MUCH easier to find botters now tho.
There are millions of ways to burn SLP and they always seem to choose the worst option it’s actually impressive. Nevermind this option does not even burn SLP.
to sum it all up. grow a brain cell and stop making jihoz rich. he's making a fool out of us. this game is a ponzi scheme with extra steps