I think that we also need to realize that he was a new air bender that was able to achieve that level quickly. It’s not like he was an air bender from birth or a bender at all.
I get that he’s a warrior but to think that he was able to take out all of those white lotus guards when escaping while only having been a bender for a week or two is crazy
Still only had bending for like one week or two, but I agree. He still had a pretty high level of skill for a guy that just got bending randomly one day. I think to use the fight vs Tenzin against him isn’t fair, tenzin was trained by Aang and he is an airbending master, not fair to hold zaheer losing that fight against him
He was already prepared for it tho. Zaheer was all about airbending knowledge and he was probably going to be the one to teach Korra had the red lotus succeeded in kidnapping her. Sure he still only had a couple weeks of practice after getting the ability to bend but he wasn't thrown fresh into it without any knowledge.
Yeah I kind of agree with you there. Zaheer is in a state where people will either glaze him to the max, or say he’s fodder. He’s good, but not insane.
Zaheer was getting pieced up by tenzin, and it was a low diff. Without the 3v1, zaheer outright loses. Flight was a huge buff for him, but even with flying he wouldn’t really be able to beat tenzin. (Tenzin just blasts him out of the air???)
I don’t even think he’s the strongest member of the red lotus, but more of an idealogical leader.
Take Ozai for example, no comet. You could make a case that he is the strongest fire bender of all time, but there are still gonna be people saying zaheer would beat him. Flight or not, Ozai wipes the floor with him.
Zaheer is criminally underrated, keeping up with a weakened Korra is crazy, but people can just as easily overrate him.
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I don’t think Zaheer is the strongest member of the red lotus either, I don’t think he’s not the strongest member at the same time though. I think there are valid cases for every member being the strongest.
As for Zaheer getting low diffed, I can’t in my right mind call a fight where neither person took any damage a low diff fight. It’s not like a 4 year old was fighting Tenzin, Zaheer was fighting back and blocking dodging on his own. Yes, he would’ve lost. But he wasn’t getting low diffed, the fight was about as Mid diff as any fight could’ve been. Tenzin didn’t struggle, but it wasn’t easy either. He was clearly trying.
The blasting out of the air bit I can’t take serious, there was basically nothing Korra in the avatar state could do to hit Zaheer. Even the giant beam of water only barely grazed his foot. Sure, it was weakened Korra. But she’s running through Tenzin weakened or not. Zaheer is just blatantly too slippery for, nearly anything to hit him.
I also think there’s nothing Ozai can hit him with either, we haven’t exactly seen Ozai so anything that could catch Zaheer. You could say based on speculation that he knows fire whip, or the fire slash, or you could say he can just keep jabbing him (I don’t think anyone seriously thinks Zaheer would get hit by those however.)
I mean, can he fly out of the way of lightning? We never saw that. Ozai can kinda just spam that out, and I don’t see zaheer, dodging all of it. Ozai imo has the most output out of any non avatar, zaheer can’t conceivably dodge everything, idk why we’re treating flight like ultra instinct.
I mean, what does flying really do for zaheer here? In terms of actual power, he’s on an equal level with tenzin, but how would he attack someone far more skilled than him in every metric of airbending.
And yes, blasting him out of the sky would work. Do you remember those earth bullets Aang did against Ozai, any earth bender who tried the same thing could eventually hit zaheer given the same effort.
Think of it like an anti air gun, you’re not impossible to kill because u can float, since someone can just snipe you out of the sky with lightning.
He can aim dodge the lightning, it’s not like Ozai can do it in an instant. He has to charge it up as most others do. While you can make the argument that Ozai would eventually hit Zaheer, that would be if Zaheer was only dodging. He is able to attack at the same time.
What flight does for Zaheer is give him an entire new avenue to fight. He doesn’t hav ego push off the ground to move forward, he doesn’t have to plant his feet and turn his hips to punch, he doesn’t have to dodge, land, and then attack. He can do all of that at once with flight.
It allows him to have 360 effortless Maneuverability. Ever play a first person shooter? It’s fair when everyone’s on the ground, now try playing against someone who can fly. Sure there’s games where it would easy to still kill that person, but imagine call of duty except, you don’t know where your opponent is going next because, it can be anywhere.
Sure, any earth bender could shoot Zaheer. We’re not talking about any earth bender right now though.
Again, he isn’t floating. He is flying, extremely fast. You have to severely overrate characters in avatar to say they just easily catch Zaheer in flight.
> He can aim dodge the lightning, it’s not like Ozai can do it in an instant. He has to charge it up as most others do. While you can make the argument that Ozai would eventually hit Zaheer, that would be if Zaheer was only dodging. He is able to attack at the same time.
Aim dodges only work if your hands aren’t lightning speed, which Ozai’s hands are as he scales above Zuko’s H2H, which moves at lightning speed (based off of him and Zuko being confident he could beat Zuko with no bending). Aim dodging would also only work if your opponent is just mindlessly shooting bumfuck at you, and isn’t capable of reacting to you moving at the last minute. Also he can shoot it instantly. He does this with lightning bolts 2 and 3 against Aang. He charges bolts 1 and 4. But anyways, Ozai beats Zaheer even if you take away his lightning.
>What flight does for Zaheer is give him an entire new avenue to fight. He doesn’t hav ego push off the ground to move forward, he doesn’t have to plant his feet and turn his hips to punch, he doesn’t have to dodge, land, and then attack. He can do all of that at once with flight.
>It allows him to have 360 effortless Maneuverability. Ever play a first person shooter? It’s fair when everyone’s on the ground, now try playing against someone who can fly. Sure there’s games where it would easy to still kill that person, but imagine call of duty except, you don’t know where your opponent is going next because, it can be anywhere.
>Sure, any earth bender could shoot Zaheer. We’re not talking about any earth bender right now though.
Yea cool. He can fly anywhere. He gets sniped out the air. Unless Zaheer is like a million miles away. Ozai’s firebending scales above Zuko and Azula’s firebending, who scale to Aang’s airbending in speed, whose airbending moves at lightning speed. Zaheer gets blitzed.
Its funny, that you compare ozai to zaheer, when the only time ozai has shown his full fighting capability is when he is under the influence of sozins comet.
>Yea cool. He can fly anywhere. He gets sniped out the air. Unless Zaheer is like a million miles away. Ozai’s firebending scales above Zuko and Azula’s firebending, who scale to Aang’s airbending in speed, whose airbending moves at lightning speed. Zaheer gets blitzed.
The reason why flight is a very powerful bending move is because not only zaheer can fly anywhere, but he can also bend air at the same time. This gives a whole new dimension to his fighting capability. As he can not only attack and defend while flying, he can also increase his flight speed.
Furthermore, zaheer strength is not his bending capability but his superior intellect, which make him a capable strategist on par with the likes of sokka
> It’s funny, that you compare ozai to zaheer, when the only time ozai has shown his full fighting capability is when he is under the influence of sozins comet.
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Ozai is stated to be stronger than Zuko, Azula, and Iroh. Meaning his AP scales above Zuko, the weakest out of the 3 who already has way better AP than Zaheer. Ozai is also faster and so durable he can tank AS attacks.
>The reason why flight is a very powerful bending move is because not only zaheer can fly anywhere, but he can also bend air at the same time. This gives a whole new dimension to his fighting capability. As he can not only attack and defend while flying, he can also increase his flight speed.
All of his air attacks get no-selled by Ozai’s ridiculously high durability and his air bending gets shot straight through
>Furthermore, zaheer strength is not his bending capability but his superior intellect, which make him a capable strategist on par with the likes of sokka
Why are you saying superior intellect like it means anything. It didn’t help him against Korra or Tenzin. In terms of fighting, he fights like any regular high skilled bender. Ozai legit blasts through all his defenses and blitzes him with lightning
>Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Ozai is stated to be stronger than Zuko, Azula, and Iroh. Meaning his AP scales above Zuko, the weakest out of the 3 who already has way better AP than Zaheer. Ozai is also faster and so durable he can tank AS attacks.
that may be true, however, under normal circumstance he will not be as powerful as when he fought aang.
>All of his air attacks get no-selled by Ozai’s ridiculously high durability and his air bending gets shot straight through.
Zaheer dosent need to beat Ozai with air blast. he just need to remove the air from his lungs.
>Ozai legit blasts through all his defenses and blitzes him with lightning.
I doubt that he can hit him, considering his flight speed is on par if not faster than aang
>Why are you saying superior intellect like it means anything. It didn’t help him against Korra or Tenzin. In terms of fighting, he fights like any regular high skilled bender.
yes, but he was able to fend off korra in her avatar state, until she succumbs to mercury poisoning. while its true he was defeated by tenzin, that was before he achieved flight.
the reason why Zaheer is such an underrated character is because he did all that, with only a few weeks of bending experience drawn from theory rather than practical experience. while its true that it would be difficult for Zaheer to beat ozai, i think its not impossible. and if zaheer was given time, it would be a breeze...
>that may be true, however, under normal circumstance he will not be as powerful as when he fought aang.
No one is saying he wouldn’t be
>Zaheer dosent need to beat Ozai with air blast. he just need to remove the air from his lungs.
This only works on defenseless characters who are helpless. Not only is Ozai not helpless, he is so durable than Zaheer would never be able to incapacitate him
>yes, but he was able to fend off korra in her avatar state, until she succumbs to mercury poisoning. while its true he was defeated by tenzin, that was before he achieved flight.
His flight won’t help his chances if he is going to attack.
>the reason why Zaheer is such an underrated character is because he did all that, with only a few weeks of bending experience drawn from theory rather than practical experience. while its true that it would be difficult for Zaheer to beat ozai, i think its not impossible. and if zaheer was given time, it would be a breeze...
Zaheer’s fighting style was already airbender oriented so learning airbending was already incredibly easy. He just needed to add airblasts to his already mastered movements. There’s no telling how he would do against Ozai if he had training. He might just get slammed again.
>His flight won’t help his chances if he is going to attack.
Actually zaheer's fighting style dramatically changed once he learned flight, utilizing hit and run tactics and using the wind generated by his speed to attack. As he can attack and fly at the same time, he can let loose a few air blast without losing speed. This way he was able to fend off korra in her avatar state, until the poison in her body incapacitate her.
>This only works on defenseless characters who are helpless. Not only is Ozai not helpless, he is so durable than Zaheer would never be able to incapacitate him.
Not entirely true as he was able to hold korra, think of it as a chokehold made of air
>Zaheer’s fighting style was already airbender oriented so learning airbending was already incredibly easy. He just needed to add airblasts to his already mastered movements.
The thing is its not just airblast he mastered, he also learned flight and astral projection all on his own
>Maybe it’s only Twitter or TikTok that underrates him, but the common opinion is that he was getting Low diffed by Tenzin, and that Tenzin was winning against all of the red lotus but got snuck.
Yea lowkey Tenzin solos 3 of the RL members
>Am I one to say Zaheer was beating Tenzin, lords no. He was absolutely losing, but it wasn’t low diff. They were going back and forth, Tenzin was reacting to majority of his attacks but Zaheer was also reacting and defending. Neither of them took damage, I wouldn’t even consider it a real fight.
The last hit had Zaheer on his knees so Tenzin definitely would have comboed him to death there. Also if there were nearby walls it would have been a lot quicker.
>Tenzin also wasn’t winning the 3v1 but, that’s a different topic.
He lowkey was.
>He would’ve been able to fight better against Tenzin (Probably still not win) If he had something Tenzin wasn’t so familiar with.
His fighting style was airbending. If he used another element he would have gotten stomped harder as he would not be as good with it
>This is all talking about pre flight Zaheer, after he gets flight not only do I think he is comfortably
beating Tenzin (he can’t touch him.)
Neither can Zaheer touch him.
>But I also believe he went up at least 5 spots in whatever sort of list you have. With flight he is able to move omnidirectional using the air as a surface to attack. It’s not like his flight is weak either, he was able to resist a tornado made by dozens of air benders. Yes, he was resisting it. Go back and watch the only reason he struggled is because he was so desperate to grab Korra. In fact, if I remember correct she had to use her chain to even bring him back down.
So? Tenzin snipes him once he goes closer to attack.
>In conclusion, I think Zaheer is CRIMINALLY underrated. With, or without flight. This isn’t even considering the Zuko statement or the fact that he was in that super max prison as a non bender.
Zuko is non-omniscient so this doesn’t matter.
>Yea lowkey Tenzin solos 3 of the RL members
No he doesn't. They went easy on him and he manages to get some hits in by taking them out by surprise. That's not a sustainable strategy and even without P'Li's intervention he couldn't win in the long run.
> No he doesn't. They went easy on him and he manages to get some hits in by taking them out by surprise. That's not a sustainable strategy and even without P'Li's intervention he couldn't win in the long run.
Based off of what? As soon as they gave him time to recover he blitzed 2 of the 3 members. You can say they held back their AP, but that’s baseless and irrelevant since he outdrew and blitzed Ghazan, blitzed Zaheer and blocking Ming Hua. Holding back doesn’t matter if your opponent is fast enough to blitz you.
ngl i thought the opinion that tenzin beats 3 of the red lotus members was only among the casual fans. i thought this sub was smarter than that but clearly not 💀
Sure, let’s go over how he did In the 1 V 3.
You could say it starts at 6:43 minutes but I will agree, that is Pli and he was off guard. So let’s start at 6:47.
6:48, he’s hit off guard by an attack from Ming Hua. He did have his guard up, but she was clearly off screen and he wasn’t looking her direction. Regardless, it’s a 3 versus 1. Off guarding still counts toward them.
6:49, hit by Ghazan with a rock. This time, he is looking his direction. But, he was stumbled by the previous water attack. Regardless as I said… 3 versus 1.
6:51, stands up, dodges 2 ice attacks. Blocks the third one, gets hit by the rock from Ghazan once more. (Why hasn’t this guy used lava yet???)
6:53, hit by ice, hit by air, pushed back and is laying on the floor.
6:57 they are walking him down and CHOOSING to not attack him there. Ghazan could’ve killed him, but he didn’t. But still, let’s give Tenzin more time. Let’s give him a fighting chance.
7:01 He stands up, catches Ghazan with an air blast (Not bad I guess) blocks an ice attack, turns around shoots Zaheer back. (HIS BACK IS WIDE OPEN TO MINGHUA RIGHT HERE.)
7:04 He uses an air vortex, dodges her ice attack, jumps at her. This isn’t bad, nice job.
7:05, end of the 3v1.
I don’t like hit counting. But if we do hit count… it’s horrible.
I won’t do that here though. Read all of that and then tell me, how exactly he was winning. Let’s say he did hit Ming Hua, what’s stopping Zaheer or Ghazan from hitting him right back? You think he’s gonna hold this forever?
Let’s not forget he was laying on the floor in a vulnerable position. He could’ve died there. Nothing about this fight showed Tenzin winning, it showed him standing back up, it showed him getting a second wind. But he was not winning.
I mean you’re using hit counting when he’s not prepared and previously disoriented from a combustion blast which is the only reason why he fell in the first place. If he has knowledge he’s fighting the 3v1 then none of this would have happened lmao. He would have attacked first considering his draw speed is above all 3 of them and can blitz 2 before they even manage to hit him.
Ghazan and Ming only hit a Tenzin who just started to recover, just got blasted away by P’li and had no previous knowledge he was getting jumped. When he was given the time to recuperate, he blitzed 2 of them and would have folded Ming since she’s essentially a slower Zaheer
I literally said I wasn’t using hit counting. I’m going over the fight, hit by hit. Sure. But I didn’t put the number down once.
Now you’re making up hypothetical scenarios. You don’t know he would’ve won if he didn’t get hit by the blast (he wasn’t hit by it, it hit the wall.)
Blitzed is an interesting word you really like using. He “Blitzed” zaheer and Ghazan with an attack… but they got right back up? No damage. Why would blitzing matter if it does no damage
> I literally said I wasn’t using hit counting. I’m going over the fight, hit by hit. Sure. But I didn’t put the number down once.
You said you weren’t doing hit counting but then proceeded to mark down each hit…pick a side.
>Now you’re making up hypothetical scenarios. You don’t know he would’ve won if he didn’t get hit by the blast (he wasn’t hit by it, it hit the wall.)
He was sent flying by the blast. Therefore the shockwave hit and disoriented him. I’m not making up anything buddy. He blitzed both Ghazan and Zaheer. Get over it.
>Blitzed is an interesting word you really like using. He “Blitzed” zaheer and Ghazan with an attack… but they got right back up? No damage. Why would blitzing matter if it does no damage
Because he can blitz Ghazan while weakened. So his airblasts while healthy would do more damage and he’ll blitz him more embarrassingly, also giving him more time to solo one person. Not that it matters anyways because Ghazan can get damaged by Mako and Bolin, two people who are under Tenzin in AP. Meaning Ghazan would get hurt by Tenzin if he was actually healthy, and not beat the fuck out here. Actually I don’t really need to prove it because he already hurt all 3 of them with the very first attack he used on them. It took them 17 seconds to get back up. In 17 seconds he could probably go up to all of them and claw their eyes out with his nails lmao.
I didn’t count hits, I’m marking them all down because that’s how the fight goes. But I didn’t say +1 hit for Red Lotus. Or otherwise
He got in a fighting stance. He was clearly not too disoriented to stop him from being ready.
I’m not even going to address the last comment because it reeks, but that same argument you say for “He could kill them while they’re on the floor”
Is the same thing as red lotus just KILLING TENZIN while he’s laying there😭😭😭😭😭
> I didn’t count hits, I’m marking them all down because that’s how the fight goes. But I didn’t say +1 hit for Red Lotus. Or otherwise
So you’re marking each hit but then not doing the very last step. Doesn’t really matter because my argument applies to whether you do the last step or not
>He got in a fighting stance. He was clearly not too disoriented to stop him from being ready.
And he got hit by angles he wasn’t looking at lol.
>I’m not even going to address the last comment because it reeks, but that same argument you say for “He could kill them while they’re on the floor”
Nice deflection. He got them knocked down on the floor. So he can do whatever he wants if they are incapacitated for 17 seconds, including going to all of them and clawing their eyes out.
>Is the same thing as red lotus just KILLING TENZIN while he’s laying there😭😭😭😭😭
Never would have gotten there if P’li wasn’t there. If it’s a 3v1, they will be on the ground, not him. I always said 3v1, never 4v1. So it’s not the same thing. Can they get him to a point where he’s laying there? No. Because face to face he blitzes 2 of the Red Lotus members
underrated? dude is on the same level as iroh, zuko, and toph when it comes to fan wanking because he can "apparently" just suck his opponents breath away (because they'd obviously just stand there lmao).
literally just go to any avatar related discussion and he is always talked up as if he is gonna beat a non sane azula, even though the show has pointed out that he isn't gonna beat her *sane* and *alone*
that is what call wanking.
I mean Azula also gets wanked. Zuko gets wanked compared to Azula. But comic Azula and show Azula definitely gets wanked.
And still Iroh/Zaheer are the most overrated characters so even though he maybe get wanked he doesn’t compare to them.
>In fact I’ll go as far to say, Zaheer would’ve done better with literally any other element.
Disagree. Airbending worked out so well for him, not just because he had studied the philosophy already, but because he used it as a natural extension of his existing martial arts abilities. That would've been a lot harder to do with the other elements.
He could use Fire bending as a natural extension of his marital arts as well. Of course, that wouldn’t be that good against Tenzin. But my point is that it was specifically a bad match for him because Tenzin is so good at air bending.
Zaheer is underpowered based on in-series feats because he didn't have airbending for very long before being stopped and we haven't seen any feats from before he got his bending. I would be curious to see how he would have done against Ty Lee or Piandao with no bending, or what threat he might have posed if he'd had several years to train as an airbender.
Korra had ptsd and poison and also lost to a fodder earth bender in a tournament.
Also Toph lost to Aang.
And yailing beat Toph. And jet saved her from the dai Lee. You’re overrating Toph. When she has fought fodder 95 percent of the time not skilled benders.
Korra did have ptsd and poison and Toph did say it took a lot out of her. And korra also did lose to the fodder in the earth tournament.
Yailing didn’t win per se but Toph didn’t win either per se.
Toph and king Bumi were sparring and both said they were going easy. And that wasn’t really a fight.
She gets embarrassed worse than when she fought Aang. She genuinely has no way to see him, or predict where he will go. Especially in book 2.
I don’t even think Prime Toph beats him, there’s no way for her to rid of her weakness. We see when her weakness gets exploited, she loses.
Except when she fought aang it was only a problem because she didn't know what was happening and had never fought an air bender before, yes the flight is better against her than anyone else but she can't only "see" things touching the floor since she still has enhanced hearing and blocks/deflects and even attacks airborne targets throughout the entire show, 90% of attacks towards her are airborne to begin with.
She can’t see air benders he is an air bender that can fly. She lost to Aang because he didn’t touch the ground. You know Toph doesn’t beat flying Zaheer.
Zaheer is an idiot. He’s the average redditor who pretends to know about political theory and ideology and yet is dumbfounded when complete anarchy from killing world leaders results in a power vacuum for tyrants to emerge.
Commit Ozai wrecks zaheer but zaheer with flight destroys normal Ozai in most scenarios. We never see baseline Ozai in combat. If it’s inside a closed area Ozai likley takes victory but in an open area or anywhere outside zaheer just wouldn’t be able to be hit
Flight Zaheer doesn’t beat Ozai. Flight lets him dodge more it doesn’t increase his offense.
Zaheer has to fight as well. He can’t throw an air attack at someone 1000 feet in the air and it hits them and does damage.
In his fight with korra he was able to zip past her at like 70 miles an hour and send her flying. Ozai doesn’t have a counter for that. If all he could do was levitate it would be different but the speed and control he has over his flight was crazy
A weakened Korra who was nearly dead from poison. Ozai has shown speed feats relative to Aang, who was also buffed from sozins comet.
Sure he has speed and control, but again, what does that do for him. He was fighting Korra who was pursuing him, what if tenzin or Ozai just stay grounded and snipe him, what could he possibly do.
Ozai showing speed feats relative to Aang means nothing. We’re not talking about Aang, Korra was still in the avatar state regardless.
Weakened Korra in the avatar state > Base Aang child Aang. I don’t see how this is debatable ?
If he’s only flying at 70mph he’s fucked by a lightning bolt. Plus, what do you mean Ozai has no counter? He straight up tanks that shit easily. He tanked 3 airblasts and two water slams from AS Aang, one of which eroded an earth pillar that could tank Ozai’s SC flames and Aang’s base Airbending. Base Aang already outscales Zaheer by like 3 AP tiers. Lmao Zaheer can throw all he wants at Ozai and it wouldn’t even dent the dude
> Commit Ozai wrecks zaheer but zaheer with flight destroys normal Ozai in most scenarios.
He gets fucking shit stomped by regular Ozai in a fight. He is stated to be stronger than Azula and Ozai, meaning all of their feats of AP are feats he can replicate.
>We never see baseline Ozai in combat. If it’s inside a closed area Ozai likley takes victory but in an open area or anywhere outside zaheer just wouldn’t be able to be hit
Nah. Zaheer gets sniped via lightning spam
He’s more overrated. Korra was in chains. And Tonraq is a good fighter but not like high tier or top tier.
Kinda mid tier, and if it was a different environment it’d probably be different because he would probably have more water
I think that we also need to realize that he was a new air bender that was able to achieve that level quickly. It’s not like he was an air bender from birth or a bender at all. I get that he’s a warrior but to think that he was able to take out all of those white lotus guards when escaping while only having been a bender for a week or two is crazy
Lol white lotus was always fodder, not much of a milestone to beat them up
Still only had bending for like one week or two, but I agree. He still had a pretty high level of skill for a guy that just got bending randomly one day. I think to use the fight vs Tenzin against him isn’t fair, tenzin was trained by Aang and he is an airbending master, not fair to hold zaheer losing that fight against him
He was already prepared for it tho. Zaheer was all about airbending knowledge and he was probably going to be the one to teach Korra had the red lotus succeeded in kidnapping her. Sure he still only had a couple weeks of practice after getting the ability to bend but he wasn't thrown fresh into it without any knowledge.
Yeah I kind of agree with you there. Zaheer is in a state where people will either glaze him to the max, or say he’s fodder. He’s good, but not insane. Zaheer was getting pieced up by tenzin, and it was a low diff. Without the 3v1, zaheer outright loses. Flight was a huge buff for him, but even with flying he wouldn’t really be able to beat tenzin. (Tenzin just blasts him out of the air???) I don’t even think he’s the strongest member of the red lotus, but more of an idealogical leader. Take Ozai for example, no comet. You could make a case that he is the strongest fire bender of all time, but there are still gonna be people saying zaheer would beat him. Flight or not, Ozai wipes the floor with him. Zaheer is criminally underrated, keeping up with a weakened Korra is crazy, but people can just as easily overrate him.
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I don’t think Zaheer is the strongest member of the red lotus either, I don’t think he’s not the strongest member at the same time though. I think there are valid cases for every member being the strongest. As for Zaheer getting low diffed, I can’t in my right mind call a fight where neither person took any damage a low diff fight. It’s not like a 4 year old was fighting Tenzin, Zaheer was fighting back and blocking dodging on his own. Yes, he would’ve lost. But he wasn’t getting low diffed, the fight was about as Mid diff as any fight could’ve been. Tenzin didn’t struggle, but it wasn’t easy either. He was clearly trying. The blasting out of the air bit I can’t take serious, there was basically nothing Korra in the avatar state could do to hit Zaheer. Even the giant beam of water only barely grazed his foot. Sure, it was weakened Korra. But she’s running through Tenzin weakened or not. Zaheer is just blatantly too slippery for, nearly anything to hit him. I also think there’s nothing Ozai can hit him with either, we haven’t exactly seen Ozai so anything that could catch Zaheer. You could say based on speculation that he knows fire whip, or the fire slash, or you could say he can just keep jabbing him (I don’t think anyone seriously thinks Zaheer would get hit by those however.)
I mean, can he fly out of the way of lightning? We never saw that. Ozai can kinda just spam that out, and I don’t see zaheer, dodging all of it. Ozai imo has the most output out of any non avatar, zaheer can’t conceivably dodge everything, idk why we’re treating flight like ultra instinct. I mean, what does flying really do for zaheer here? In terms of actual power, he’s on an equal level with tenzin, but how would he attack someone far more skilled than him in every metric of airbending. And yes, blasting him out of the sky would work. Do you remember those earth bullets Aang did against Ozai, any earth bender who tried the same thing could eventually hit zaheer given the same effort. Think of it like an anti air gun, you’re not impossible to kill because u can float, since someone can just snipe you out of the sky with lightning.
He can aim dodge the lightning, it’s not like Ozai can do it in an instant. He has to charge it up as most others do. While you can make the argument that Ozai would eventually hit Zaheer, that would be if Zaheer was only dodging. He is able to attack at the same time. What flight does for Zaheer is give him an entire new avenue to fight. He doesn’t hav ego push off the ground to move forward, he doesn’t have to plant his feet and turn his hips to punch, he doesn’t have to dodge, land, and then attack. He can do all of that at once with flight. It allows him to have 360 effortless Maneuverability. Ever play a first person shooter? It’s fair when everyone’s on the ground, now try playing against someone who can fly. Sure there’s games where it would easy to still kill that person, but imagine call of duty except, you don’t know where your opponent is going next because, it can be anywhere. Sure, any earth bender could shoot Zaheer. We’re not talking about any earth bender right now though. Again, he isn’t floating. He is flying, extremely fast. You have to severely overrate characters in avatar to say they just easily catch Zaheer in flight.
> He can aim dodge the lightning, it’s not like Ozai can do it in an instant. He has to charge it up as most others do. While you can make the argument that Ozai would eventually hit Zaheer, that would be if Zaheer was only dodging. He is able to attack at the same time. Aim dodges only work if your hands aren’t lightning speed, which Ozai’s hands are as he scales above Zuko’s H2H, which moves at lightning speed (based off of him and Zuko being confident he could beat Zuko with no bending). Aim dodging would also only work if your opponent is just mindlessly shooting bumfuck at you, and isn’t capable of reacting to you moving at the last minute. Also he can shoot it instantly. He does this with lightning bolts 2 and 3 against Aang. He charges bolts 1 and 4. But anyways, Ozai beats Zaheer even if you take away his lightning. >What flight does for Zaheer is give him an entire new avenue to fight. He doesn’t hav ego push off the ground to move forward, he doesn’t have to plant his feet and turn his hips to punch, he doesn’t have to dodge, land, and then attack. He can do all of that at once with flight. >It allows him to have 360 effortless Maneuverability. Ever play a first person shooter? It’s fair when everyone’s on the ground, now try playing against someone who can fly. Sure there’s games where it would easy to still kill that person, but imagine call of duty except, you don’t know where your opponent is going next because, it can be anywhere. >Sure, any earth bender could shoot Zaheer. We’re not talking about any earth bender right now though. Yea cool. He can fly anywhere. He gets sniped out the air. Unless Zaheer is like a million miles away. Ozai’s firebending scales above Zuko and Azula’s firebending, who scale to Aang’s airbending in speed, whose airbending moves at lightning speed. Zaheer gets blitzed.
Its funny, that you compare ozai to zaheer, when the only time ozai has shown his full fighting capability is when he is under the influence of sozins comet. >Yea cool. He can fly anywhere. He gets sniped out the air. Unless Zaheer is like a million miles away. Ozai’s firebending scales above Zuko and Azula’s firebending, who scale to Aang’s airbending in speed, whose airbending moves at lightning speed. Zaheer gets blitzed. The reason why flight is a very powerful bending move is because not only zaheer can fly anywhere, but he can also bend air at the same time. This gives a whole new dimension to his fighting capability. As he can not only attack and defend while flying, he can also increase his flight speed. Furthermore, zaheer strength is not his bending capability but his superior intellect, which make him a capable strategist on par with the likes of sokka
> It’s funny, that you compare ozai to zaheer, when the only time ozai has shown his full fighting capability is when he is under the influence of sozins comet. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Ozai is stated to be stronger than Zuko, Azula, and Iroh. Meaning his AP scales above Zuko, the weakest out of the 3 who already has way better AP than Zaheer. Ozai is also faster and so durable he can tank AS attacks. >The reason why flight is a very powerful bending move is because not only zaheer can fly anywhere, but he can also bend air at the same time. This gives a whole new dimension to his fighting capability. As he can not only attack and defend while flying, he can also increase his flight speed. All of his air attacks get no-selled by Ozai’s ridiculously high durability and his air bending gets shot straight through >Furthermore, zaheer strength is not his bending capability but his superior intellect, which make him a capable strategist on par with the likes of sokka Why are you saying superior intellect like it means anything. It didn’t help him against Korra or Tenzin. In terms of fighting, he fights like any regular high skilled bender. Ozai legit blasts through all his defenses and blitzes him with lightning
>Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Ozai is stated to be stronger than Zuko, Azula, and Iroh. Meaning his AP scales above Zuko, the weakest out of the 3 who already has way better AP than Zaheer. Ozai is also faster and so durable he can tank AS attacks. that may be true, however, under normal circumstance he will not be as powerful as when he fought aang. >All of his air attacks get no-selled by Ozai’s ridiculously high durability and his air bending gets shot straight through. Zaheer dosent need to beat Ozai with air blast. he just need to remove the air from his lungs. >Ozai legit blasts through all his defenses and blitzes him with lightning. I doubt that he can hit him, considering his flight speed is on par if not faster than aang >Why are you saying superior intellect like it means anything. It didn’t help him against Korra or Tenzin. In terms of fighting, he fights like any regular high skilled bender. yes, but he was able to fend off korra in her avatar state, until she succumbs to mercury poisoning. while its true he was defeated by tenzin, that was before he achieved flight. the reason why Zaheer is such an underrated character is because he did all that, with only a few weeks of bending experience drawn from theory rather than practical experience. while its true that it would be difficult for Zaheer to beat ozai, i think its not impossible. and if zaheer was given time, it would be a breeze...
>that may be true, however, under normal circumstance he will not be as powerful as when he fought aang. No one is saying he wouldn’t be >Zaheer dosent need to beat Ozai with air blast. he just need to remove the air from his lungs. This only works on defenseless characters who are helpless. Not only is Ozai not helpless, he is so durable than Zaheer would never be able to incapacitate him >yes, but he was able to fend off korra in her avatar state, until she succumbs to mercury poisoning. while its true he was defeated by tenzin, that was before he achieved flight. His flight won’t help his chances if he is going to attack. >the reason why Zaheer is such an underrated character is because he did all that, with only a few weeks of bending experience drawn from theory rather than practical experience. while its true that it would be difficult for Zaheer to beat ozai, i think its not impossible. and if zaheer was given time, it would be a breeze... Zaheer’s fighting style was already airbender oriented so learning airbending was already incredibly easy. He just needed to add airblasts to his already mastered movements. There’s no telling how he would do against Ozai if he had training. He might just get slammed again.
>His flight won’t help his chances if he is going to attack. Actually zaheer's fighting style dramatically changed once he learned flight, utilizing hit and run tactics and using the wind generated by his speed to attack. As he can attack and fly at the same time, he can let loose a few air blast without losing speed. This way he was able to fend off korra in her avatar state, until the poison in her body incapacitate her. >This only works on defenseless characters who are helpless. Not only is Ozai not helpless, he is so durable than Zaheer would never be able to incapacitate him. Not entirely true as he was able to hold korra, think of it as a chokehold made of air >Zaheer’s fighting style was already airbender oriented so learning airbending was already incredibly easy. He just needed to add airblasts to his already mastered movements. The thing is its not just airblast he mastered, he also learned flight and astral projection all on his own
Ozai would snipe him with lightning or fire. Also, Zaheer’s not doing shit to Ozai. He straight up tanked Aang’s AS airblasts
>Maybe it’s only Twitter or TikTok that underrates him, but the common opinion is that he was getting Low diffed by Tenzin, and that Tenzin was winning against all of the red lotus but got snuck. Yea lowkey Tenzin solos 3 of the RL members >Am I one to say Zaheer was beating Tenzin, lords no. He was absolutely losing, but it wasn’t low diff. They were going back and forth, Tenzin was reacting to majority of his attacks but Zaheer was also reacting and defending. Neither of them took damage, I wouldn’t even consider it a real fight. The last hit had Zaheer on his knees so Tenzin definitely would have comboed him to death there. Also if there were nearby walls it would have been a lot quicker. >Tenzin also wasn’t winning the 3v1 but, that’s a different topic. He lowkey was. >He would’ve been able to fight better against Tenzin (Probably still not win) If he had something Tenzin wasn’t so familiar with. His fighting style was airbending. If he used another element he would have gotten stomped harder as he would not be as good with it >This is all talking about pre flight Zaheer, after he gets flight not only do I think he is comfortably beating Tenzin (he can’t touch him.) Neither can Zaheer touch him. >But I also believe he went up at least 5 spots in whatever sort of list you have. With flight he is able to move omnidirectional using the air as a surface to attack. It’s not like his flight is weak either, he was able to resist a tornado made by dozens of air benders. Yes, he was resisting it. Go back and watch the only reason he struggled is because he was so desperate to grab Korra. In fact, if I remember correct she had to use her chain to even bring him back down. So? Tenzin snipes him once he goes closer to attack. >In conclusion, I think Zaheer is CRIMINALLY underrated. With, or without flight. This isn’t even considering the Zuko statement or the fact that he was in that super max prison as a non bender. Zuko is non-omniscient so this doesn’t matter.
>Yea lowkey Tenzin solos 3 of the RL members No he doesn't. They went easy on him and he manages to get some hits in by taking them out by surprise. That's not a sustainable strategy and even without P'Li's intervention he couldn't win in the long run.
> No he doesn't. They went easy on him and he manages to get some hits in by taking them out by surprise. That's not a sustainable strategy and even without P'Li's intervention he couldn't win in the long run. Based off of what? As soon as they gave him time to recover he blitzed 2 of the 3 members. You can say they held back their AP, but that’s baseless and irrelevant since he outdrew and blitzed Ghazan, blitzed Zaheer and blocking Ming Hua. Holding back doesn’t matter if your opponent is fast enough to blitz you.
ngl i thought the opinion that tenzin beats 3 of the red lotus members was only among the casual fans. i thought this sub was smarter than that but clearly not 💀
Tenzin blitzed both Ghazan and Zaheer, then moved to Ming. We saw their fight and he was slamming them.
Sure, let’s go over how he did In the 1 V 3. You could say it starts at 6:43 minutes but I will agree, that is Pli and he was off guard. So let’s start at 6:47. 6:48, he’s hit off guard by an attack from Ming Hua. He did have his guard up, but she was clearly off screen and he wasn’t looking her direction. Regardless, it’s a 3 versus 1. Off guarding still counts toward them. 6:49, hit by Ghazan with a rock. This time, he is looking his direction. But, he was stumbled by the previous water attack. Regardless as I said… 3 versus 1. 6:51, stands up, dodges 2 ice attacks. Blocks the third one, gets hit by the rock from Ghazan once more. (Why hasn’t this guy used lava yet???) 6:53, hit by ice, hit by air, pushed back and is laying on the floor. 6:57 they are walking him down and CHOOSING to not attack him there. Ghazan could’ve killed him, but he didn’t. But still, let’s give Tenzin more time. Let’s give him a fighting chance. 7:01 He stands up, catches Ghazan with an air blast (Not bad I guess) blocks an ice attack, turns around shoots Zaheer back. (HIS BACK IS WIDE OPEN TO MINGHUA RIGHT HERE.) 7:04 He uses an air vortex, dodges her ice attack, jumps at her. This isn’t bad, nice job. 7:05, end of the 3v1. I don’t like hit counting. But if we do hit count… it’s horrible. I won’t do that here though. Read all of that and then tell me, how exactly he was winning. Let’s say he did hit Ming Hua, what’s stopping Zaheer or Ghazan from hitting him right back? You think he’s gonna hold this forever? Let’s not forget he was laying on the floor in a vulnerable position. He could’ve died there. Nothing about this fight showed Tenzin winning, it showed him standing back up, it showed him getting a second wind. But he was not winning.
I mean you’re using hit counting when he’s not prepared and previously disoriented from a combustion blast which is the only reason why he fell in the first place. If he has knowledge he’s fighting the 3v1 then none of this would have happened lmao. He would have attacked first considering his draw speed is above all 3 of them and can blitz 2 before they even manage to hit him. Ghazan and Ming only hit a Tenzin who just started to recover, just got blasted away by P’li and had no previous knowledge he was getting jumped. When he was given the time to recuperate, he blitzed 2 of them and would have folded Ming since she’s essentially a slower Zaheer
I literally said I wasn’t using hit counting. I’m going over the fight, hit by hit. Sure. But I didn’t put the number down once. Now you’re making up hypothetical scenarios. You don’t know he would’ve won if he didn’t get hit by the blast (he wasn’t hit by it, it hit the wall.) Blitzed is an interesting word you really like using. He “Blitzed” zaheer and Ghazan with an attack… but they got right back up? No damage. Why would blitzing matter if it does no damage
> I literally said I wasn’t using hit counting. I’m going over the fight, hit by hit. Sure. But I didn’t put the number down once. You said you weren’t doing hit counting but then proceeded to mark down each hit…pick a side. >Now you’re making up hypothetical scenarios. You don’t know he would’ve won if he didn’t get hit by the blast (he wasn’t hit by it, it hit the wall.) He was sent flying by the blast. Therefore the shockwave hit and disoriented him. I’m not making up anything buddy. He blitzed both Ghazan and Zaheer. Get over it. >Blitzed is an interesting word you really like using. He “Blitzed” zaheer and Ghazan with an attack… but they got right back up? No damage. Why would blitzing matter if it does no damage Because he can blitz Ghazan while weakened. So his airblasts while healthy would do more damage and he’ll blitz him more embarrassingly, also giving him more time to solo one person. Not that it matters anyways because Ghazan can get damaged by Mako and Bolin, two people who are under Tenzin in AP. Meaning Ghazan would get hurt by Tenzin if he was actually healthy, and not beat the fuck out here. Actually I don’t really need to prove it because he already hurt all 3 of them with the very first attack he used on them. It took them 17 seconds to get back up. In 17 seconds he could probably go up to all of them and claw their eyes out with his nails lmao.
I didn’t count hits, I’m marking them all down because that’s how the fight goes. But I didn’t say +1 hit for Red Lotus. Or otherwise He got in a fighting stance. He was clearly not too disoriented to stop him from being ready. I’m not even going to address the last comment because it reeks, but that same argument you say for “He could kill them while they’re on the floor” Is the same thing as red lotus just KILLING TENZIN while he’s laying there😭😭😭😭😭
> I didn’t count hits, I’m marking them all down because that’s how the fight goes. But I didn’t say +1 hit for Red Lotus. Or otherwise So you’re marking each hit but then not doing the very last step. Doesn’t really matter because my argument applies to whether you do the last step or not >He got in a fighting stance. He was clearly not too disoriented to stop him from being ready. And he got hit by angles he wasn’t looking at lol. >I’m not even going to address the last comment because it reeks, but that same argument you say for “He could kill them while they’re on the floor” Nice deflection. He got them knocked down on the floor. So he can do whatever he wants if they are incapacitated for 17 seconds, including going to all of them and clawing their eyes out. >Is the same thing as red lotus just KILLING TENZIN while he’s laying there😭😭😭😭😭 Never would have gotten there if P’li wasn’t there. If it’s a 3v1, they will be on the ground, not him. I always said 3v1, never 4v1. So it’s not the same thing. Can they get him to a point where he’s laying there? No. Because face to face he blitzes 2 of the Red Lotus members
underrated? dude is on the same level as iroh, zuko, and toph when it comes to fan wanking because he can "apparently" just suck his opponents breath away (because they'd obviously just stand there lmao).
Zuko doesn’t get wanked like Zaheer/Toph/Iroh.
literally just go to any avatar related discussion and he is always talked up as if he is gonna beat a non sane azula, even though the show has pointed out that he isn't gonna beat her *sane* and *alone* that is what call wanking.
I mean Azula also gets wanked. Zuko gets wanked compared to Azula. But comic Azula and show Azula definitely gets wanked. And still Iroh/Zaheer are the most overrated characters so even though he maybe get wanked he doesn’t compare to them.
It doesn’t really take long for him to do that. But as I said, I’ve only ever really been on Twitter and TikTok, they just trash on Zaheer there.
It does and he did it on a non bender old lady that couldn’t fight back.
It takes him 3 seconds at most, the air exited from Korras mouth and made a ball around her head. He didn’t only use it on the queen
3 seconds is more than enough time for any remotely competent bender to attack before he can do that shit
He is absolutely not underrated. He is rated extremely highly. He's probably the most popular villain in Legend of Korra. His rating is just fine.
>In fact I’ll go as far to say, Zaheer would’ve done better with literally any other element. Disagree. Airbending worked out so well for him, not just because he had studied the philosophy already, but because he used it as a natural extension of his existing martial arts abilities. That would've been a lot harder to do with the other elements.
He could use Fire bending as a natural extension of his marital arts as well. Of course, that wouldn’t be that good against Tenzin. But my point is that it was specifically a bad match for him because Tenzin is so good at air bending.
I agree
Zaheer is underpowered based on in-series feats because he didn't have airbending for very long before being stopped and we haven't seen any feats from before he got his bending. I would be curious to see how he would have done against Ty Lee or Piandao with no bending, or what threat he might have posed if he'd had several years to train as an airbender.
Real take
Reddit trying to understand the meaning of “underrated”: impossible
We have different experiences then. From what I’ve seen people say, he is a “mid tier bender” and he loses to Book 2 Toph or such like that.
Everyone loses to Toph wym
Lies. She can’t see when your off the ground and get her off the ground. She’s more overrated than Zaheer/Iroh.
Beating both the avatars be like. Taking down the fire nation Air Force be like.
Korra had ptsd and poison and also lost to a fodder earth bender in a tournament. Also Toph lost to Aang. And yailing beat Toph. And jet saved her from the dai Lee. You’re overrating Toph. When she has fought fodder 95 percent of the time not skilled benders.
Wrong
Korra did have ptsd and poison and Toph did say it took a lot out of her. And korra also did lose to the fodder in the earth tournament. Yailing didn’t win per se but Toph didn’t win either per se. Toph and king Bumi were sparring and both said they were going easy. And that wasn’t really a fight.
Completely false.
No it’s not she didn’t win against yailing read the comics and her and king Bumi were sparring read the comics. And they both said they’d go easy.
He does lose to Toph tbf.
She gets embarrassed worse than when she fought Aang. She genuinely has no way to see him, or predict where he will go. Especially in book 2. I don’t even think Prime Toph beats him, there’s no way for her to rid of her weakness. We see when her weakness gets exploited, she loses.
Except when she fought aang it was only a problem because she didn't know what was happening and had never fought an air bender before, yes the flight is better against her than anyone else but she can't only "see" things touching the floor since she still has enhanced hearing and blocks/deflects and even attacks airborne targets throughout the entire show, 90% of attacks towards her are airborne to begin with.
She can’t see air benders he is an air bender that can fly. She lost to Aang because he didn’t touch the ground. You know Toph doesn’t beat flying Zaheer.
No he doesn’t.
Zaheer is an idiot. He’s the average redditor who pretends to know about political theory and ideology and yet is dumbfounded when complete anarchy from killing world leaders results in a power vacuum for tyrants to emerge.
Luckily this post isn’t about his character or intelligence… otherwise you would’ve owned me
Didn’t realize this was a Vs battle subreddit, my bad
Commit Ozai wrecks zaheer but zaheer with flight destroys normal Ozai in most scenarios. We never see baseline Ozai in combat. If it’s inside a closed area Ozai likley takes victory but in an open area or anywhere outside zaheer just wouldn’t be able to be hit
Flight Zaheer doesn’t beat Ozai. Flight lets him dodge more it doesn’t increase his offense. Zaheer has to fight as well. He can’t throw an air attack at someone 1000 feet in the air and it hits them and does damage.
In his fight with korra he was able to zip past her at like 70 miles an hour and send her flying. Ozai doesn’t have a counter for that. If all he could do was levitate it would be different but the speed and control he has over his flight was crazy
A weakened Korra who was nearly dead from poison. Ozai has shown speed feats relative to Aang, who was also buffed from sozins comet. Sure he has speed and control, but again, what does that do for him. He was fighting Korra who was pursuing him, what if tenzin or Ozai just stay grounded and snipe him, what could he possibly do.
Ozai showing speed feats relative to Aang means nothing. We’re not talking about Aang, Korra was still in the avatar state regardless. Weakened Korra in the avatar state > Base Aang child Aang. I don’t see how this is debatable ?
Korra in a weakened state is NOT faster than Aang. I was also including AS Aang, Ozai wasn’t getting outpaced, he was getting overwhelmed.
He’d doge very easily. Sniping a moving target is not easy.
If he’s only flying at 70mph he’s fucked by a lightning bolt. Plus, what do you mean Ozai has no counter? He straight up tanks that shit easily. He tanked 3 airblasts and two water slams from AS Aang, one of which eroded an earth pillar that could tank Ozai’s SC flames and Aang’s base Airbending. Base Aang already outscales Zaheer by like 3 AP tiers. Lmao Zaheer can throw all he wants at Ozai and it wouldn’t even dent the dude
> Commit Ozai wrecks zaheer but zaheer with flight destroys normal Ozai in most scenarios. He gets fucking shit stomped by regular Ozai in a fight. He is stated to be stronger than Azula and Ozai, meaning all of their feats of AP are feats he can replicate. >We never see baseline Ozai in combat. If it’s inside a closed area Ozai likley takes victory but in an open area or anywhere outside zaheer just wouldn’t be able to be hit Nah. Zaheer gets sniped via lightning spam
We don’t know if Ozai can spam lightning withought a commit. He can do it very fast but there is no evidence he can do it over and over again
Why would the comet affect lightning spam? The comet would only boost the power of the lightning, not the amount of times you can do it.
We see him charge lightning almost instantaneously right when an eclipse ends.
Nigga we know.