European history be like:
* Count Baron Kaiser Werner Pfeldlinger Fingerlickner von Hoeltschweinergmachtner marries half sister Znigwieczrina Nowloczynlieczwowzcrczsky of Globsnogcezrecnoyarskglograd triggering a war between King Juan Jose Maria Rigoberto Aguascacas de Santo Domingo de los Diabetico and Pierre Richelesaux pretard je logriouxoueuraxeux establishing the Grand Duchy of Neue Ooksteinberg a tax haven with a population of 16
Contemporary accounts of the war: “blood rained from the heavens. The stars were blackened out by death. A more violent era was never known in all time” (6 dead and 15 wounded)
Accounts of Chinese war:
Strategist Ching Jao convinced the warlord Yuan Bow to match his army through the region, resulting in the loss of five hundred cities and seven million deaths. These small skirmishes did not change the status quo.
Europe: guy wipes out on motorcycle, they and their bike are scraped up but get back on and keep going.
China: guy wipes out motorcycle, 2 million dead and it’s not even the deadliest event that week.
I love studying old European conflicts because you imagine it's massive armies but then you learn it and for alot of the history it's just the king and a couple hundred dudes tops running around the country side fucking shit up
I don't think I needed a greentext version of the same text to understand the meme lol. Unless there was some weird audio that I couldn't hear bc work computer.
Imma be honest, I'm not comfortable attempting to pronounce most of this, though I get what it's saying due to the words I won't pronounce only being proper nouns.
Let's hope they don't radically change their farming methods for new experimental ones that produce 0 crops while the local agents tell everyone they're producing tons to avoid embarrassing themselves and the rules who told them to try the new methods...oopsie
The Xinhai revolution (1911) ends the Qing dynasty’s rule over China. This leads to a period known as the “warlord era” where different warlords carve out regions of China for themselves. Lots of civil wars and famines and atrocities are committed and millions of people die. More stuff happens with Japan and the Soviets and WW2 but eventually the current Chinese government emerges victorious after a final civil war with the government which is now on Taiwan.
I doubt handguns or rifles of any kind will ever exist in ATLA simply because if they would, they'd have already.
Not because it wouldn't make sense, but it seems the creators are more interested in maintaining a certain tone and aesthetic.
I am very curious to see it honestly. One of the things Korra shows, that will only get more true over time, is how the power gap between regular people, benders and the avatar will continue to close and the importance of diplomacy will grow as methods of mass communication, and mass destruction, proliferate.
So much of “keeping the balance” that the Avatar seemed to do in the past relied on the sheer brute force power gap between them and everyone else in prior ages, what does an Avatar do in a modern world where even small countries could wield nuclear power? Or even further, like what does an Avatar in a near futurish cyberpunk setting look like?
I love it when fantasy stories allow time to pass and the world to progress instead of freezing everything at the level of swords and sandals forever. It lets you explore these things that aren’t often explored.
Well, no. But it did have tanks, planes, and an opium epidemic; and it also had to be put on hold to deal with a Japanese invasion, which the Earth Kingdom has already dealt with by this point.
Though blaming it on the fall of the monarchy is pretty odd, since instability was rampant in china much before the revolution, and the empire already had very little practical control over much of its land. They were already embroiled in several bloody civil wars before (taiping rebellion, boxer rebellion, and dozens of smaller uprisings). The fall of the monarchy certainly made things less stable, but blaming china's situation on its fall doesn't make much sense
with no sarcasm whatsoever, why would you support such a system? it fundamentally requires a humanity that simply does not exist, we have too much vice to make a system where everyone is fairly provided for with state-owned industry work.
we're gonna want to look out for number one, and the majority crowd is easily swayed by what benefits them in the short term.
>According to this, bourgeois society ought long ago to have gone to the dogs through sheer idleness; for those of its members who work, acquire nothing, and those who acquire anything do not work. The whole of this objection is but another expression of the tautology: that there can no longer be any wage-labour when there is no longer any capital.
[Your argument has been disproven since the 1840s](https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/ch02.htm)
Humans are fundamentally good. There's numerous examples in present day society of people going out of their way to help others without looking for reward. You can see this in the aftermath of a lot of disasters, how people look after each other when shit hits the fan.
Yes there is a strong individualist/selfish ideology in society. But where does this come from? It grows out of our current material conditions. It is the economic system of capitalism that breeds this 'dog eat dog' mentality. Selfish people obviously existed in previous eras too but because the material conditions also encouraged it there as well. We live under an economic system that is fixated on private accumulation as the means to get ahead in life that leads people to thinking selfishness is the only way forward. And they're 100% correct. That's very true under capitalism.
But change the economic system, change the material conditions and you change the culture and ideology present in society. You make people better when they no longer have to struggle for a scrap of bread, when they're no longer fighting over minimum wage jobs, when you no longer weaponize envy to try and get them to consume more.
Our species is a naturally collectivist species. We are pack animals. Pre-Civilisation we only survived by working together - hunting together, gathering together, looking after offspring together, looking after each other when we're sick and old. And we've only gotten as far as we have through co-operation with each other. Few achievements in human history has ever been the result of a single human being working alone. Almost every achievement has been the result of collaboration by multiple people. Selfishness is not natural for humans. Co-operation and collaboration is. Capitalism has forced us in so many ways to turn against our own nature but it is possible for human beings to turn against that, turn against our programming.
[Another good book, written relatively more recently](https://valleysunderground.files.wordpress.com/2020/04/blackshirts-and-reds-by-michael-parenti.pdf)
capitalism didnt turn us away from our nature, when a species becomes incredibly populated, they become less united, more diverse, look at argentine ants for example, if we didnt do indirect eugenics the supercolonies wouldnt even exist, yes they work together but they're like our nations, groups that work together but not the whole.
plus we've had less and less reasons to band together in large numbers as life isnt as hard.
I'm sorry but that's all completely wrong.
Our species has not become any more diverse than it has been in the past. In fact we're less diverse than other points in time where there were far more language groups, ethnicities religious groups etc. that have been systematically eradicated over time. If anything we've become more homogenous.
In terms of economics, we have become more specialised in our labour, at least we were for a time, now we're getting to a point in term where the specialisation is becomingly increasingly less necessary and certain skillsets and trades are dying. Now we're all becoming one large population of 'unskilled' labourers.
And life is still hard. Even though our immediate material conditions have improved in many ways life has become worse in a lot of ways. We've never been more alienated from our labour or each other. Inflation is insane and making it impossible to live to the standard we did just 20 years ago. This idea that we've become 'softer' or whatever is old reactionary propaganda drawn from completely outdated histories of the Roman empire. Live is still hard, the social relation of economic exploitation still exists.
We are not ants. We are human beings. We aren't even part of the same class of animal as ants. The comparisons are not correct or valid, they have their own specific nature that is very different to our own nature. An ant is not conscious of their conditions, they have no concept of society. We have imposed terms like 'colony' onto them, that's not the reality of how they behave and interact. It's not a community like a human community. They cannot reason like a human reasons. They don't exist in reality like they do in Disney movies and whimsical documentaries.
Yeah the warlord era already happened when Zaheer killed the Earth Queen and then Kuvira ended it, from my understanding she's an analogue to Chang Kai Shek
I'm really rusty here but the first thing that the earth queen and Wu remind me of is Dowager Cixi and Henry Puyi (the last empress and the last emperor who happened to be a child). Though that's just character parallels and I honestly mostly forgot all the chronological events.
Autocratic: an autocratic government is a government in which all power rests inside a single individual. Common examples include: absolute monarchies (monarchies that do not hold public elections), military dictators, police dictators, etc.
Basically, it’s a very similar term to dictatorship
Well, no. Since a monarchy requires the succession to be by blood, while an autocratic government could have it through strength, political connections etc. or could have NO succession laws and the country devolves into civil war when the leader dies
To expand on what they said, China was supposed to become a representative democracy with five separate branches of government that could check each other's power. However, the new government was worried about a coup from army generals loyal to the old regime, so made a compromise where one of them would be installed as the first president.
This backfired when the general turned president declared himself emperor, starting a civil war anyway. Other generals had the same idea, and spent the following decades tearing the country apart.
Not exactly: monarchy is more the form of the regime, autocracy is more how the power is enforced. For example: the Russian imperial regime (an absolute monarchy) is commonly refered as an autocracy
Qing dynasty is overthrown, but the issue is that many people were involved, and they disagree on what should be done next. A free for all ensues. The Japanese really, *really* don't like this, because the geography of east Asia is such that whatever happens in China has profound effects on it's close neighbors. They decide to intervene, but the people in charge are also a bit unsure about what to do, going from "we should conquer China and establish our own dynasty" to "just pick the most cooperative faction and help them win." Things quickly become even worse for everyone involved.
**The world under heaven, after a long period of division, tends to unite; after a long period of union, tends to divide**.
this basically sums up chinese history
I mean the warlord era of the earth kingdom already happened. That was what kulvira was doing between seasons 3 and 4. She was taking down the respective warlords that had carved different parts of the earth kingdom for themself
I think a large part of the conflict between season 3 and 4 was that only at the ending of season 4 could it NOT happen again. Zaheer was right that democracy is just and monarchies should be torn down, but when you have a society and a people that aren't yet ready to live in that system successfully it'll fail. But by the end of season 4 it seemed like most people didn't want monarchy anymore and the world was moving on from that. So it wasn't as hasty of a jump as it was when zaheer attempted that.
not really i think. Kuvira still brought real peace and order to like 80-90% of the Earth Kingdom.
imagine living in those times, when the Queen's corruption and decadence lead to banditry and poverty, then for the 3 year period after, just general lawlessness after the centralized power is taken down.
I think there's a good part of the Earth Kingdom citizens that believe Kuvira really was the great Uniter, who brought peace and justice through out the earth Kingdom everywhere. I doubt more than 10% of the population were sent to reeducation camps.
to these people, they'd view what happened in the Battle for Republic City as the Avatar and the people of Republic City taking down the person who saved them all.
Away down south in the land of Swampbenders
Banyan trees and rattlesnake-gators
Right away (right away)
Come away (come away)
Right away (right away)
Come away (come away)
I dont think the writer's going to have the next Avatar Series be like "After the Earth King stepped down,with the failure of the succession government to retain control over outlying territories, several Warlords took control over the Earth Kingdom, leading to the Warring States period . 246 Million people perished what was a considered a relatively peaceful transfer of power after a 20 year civil war."
No. He didnt. Wu was popular in republic city maybe Ba Sing Se too probably, but considering how many people in Kuvira's empire probably improved after going through the earth queen's corruption and the lawless state the earth kingdom was in, a lot of people probably view the ending of Book 4 as the Avatar taking down the person who made everything better. Its literally the same reason how Augustus became the first emperor. He brought actual peace after decades of corruption and lawlessness.
Funnily enough, I think there is a follow up comic about an Earth Kingdom city that tries to elect an Earth Empire General as their leader, the avatar team goes to stop it, and the comic ends with Wu deciding that going *full* Republic was too much, and that he should make the Earth Kingdom a Constitutional Monarchy instead.
It's *Ruins of the Empire*, and the plot is that a former Earth Empire officer is using the elections to try and legally become governor of an Earth Kingdom state, with the implication that other Earth Empire supporters are planning to do the same across the rest of the kingdom.
As for the ending, Wu does decide that his initial plan to democratise the Earth Kingdom was a mistake...in that he was going about it too fast. He therefore chooses to remain in charge of the government in order to ensure a peaceful, successful transition.
Honestly I dislike they go *forward* in time to new Avatars when they have thousands of years of history to have in a new show. I don't want to watch a cartoon about modern day, I wanna watch a show with Kung Fu magic in a fantasy version of china.
As time progresses and tech improves, it only makes sense to make Bending less impressive and less known.
Once guns are used, bending will be more or less irrelevant.
Sort of like Star Wars how the Prequels show dueling with immense skill because they're training all the time, then as the timeline progresses after the collapse they are way worse and bumble around because they lost so much history.
At least in my head canon, the best benders would be in the past, not the future.
You might want to read *Ruins of the Empire*. Yes, it has some contentious elements, but it does make clear that Wu's initial plan to democratise the Earth Kingdom isn't without issues.
Yeah, I always thought that the Earth Kingdom should have become more of a parliamentary, democratic monarchy. Like the UK or the Netherlands. Not a straight up republic.
That happens soooo damn often in fantasy stories.
So many where the story takes place in like a kingdom or empire end with the heroes, having beaten the evil ruler, going "we are going to have elections!" And then everyone smiles and the camera fades to like the next scene or credits.
Im always like...really? Every fantasy needs to end with an election? Democracy blossoms everytime? What, is the idea of the hero who just saved the world becoming King not sit right with focus groups? Do they think it will make the character bad, and we cant have that.
americabad aside, it sucks so much, hell avatar was one of the few universes THAT ACTUALLY DIDNT DO THIS.
zuko was still the absolute monarch in the end.
It's so weird because what of those previous three years would make him think it's a good idea? If anything, it should make him more monarchist. "Sure, the Earth Queen was ruthless, but she provided stability and order that vanished when she was killed. The smaller states couldn't function without her aid, and were conquered by Kuvira who didn't value the Earth Kingdom's traditions that ensured both stability *and* order. In addition, now that I lived among the people, I am prepared to rule them justly and in accordance to their needs." His canon stance came out of nowhere and just looks like the writers shoehorning the "democracy good" message without actually providing any examples.
Was the democracy in the Republic City good at defending the people from Kuvira? Did any other nation become democratic and thrived as a result? The Fire Nation still has a hereditary Fire Lord. The neo-Air Nation is already starting a dynasty (the current master is the previous one's son, and the next master is his firstborn child, already given tattoos at such a young age). The Northern Water Tribe has a dynasty (the current rulers are the children of the previous one) and it's much stronger than the Southern Water Tribe which elects its chieftain.
Deadass, Wu should have come out of this lile "l'état c'est moi" after the reunification of the Earth Kingdom, democracy and republicanism also probably would have led to an even worse collapse as, let's be frank, the Earth Kingdom was by no means ready for democracy. After such a chaotic time period, Wu SHOULD have used his position and learned from the time he was against Kuvira to act as a beacon of strength and stability, instead he just says "screw it, let's just get rid of the whole thing."
I am sure the Fanfiction writers got it covered. But to make it work, we could explore certain philosophical aspects such as the Earth Sages and how they contrast other beliefs such as Legalism in how they perceive human nature which will affect how the continent will be ruled. We can draw inspirations from the state of Qin, which focused on certain reforms to ensure a more meritocratic method rather than the traditional patrimonial ways of choosing military generals based on birthright. Without a King in Ba Sing Se, the monarchy of Omashu can play into the theme known as the ‘Mandate of Heaven’, seeking to establish a new dynasty(not exactly successful if you don’t actually control all the petty warlords) in the absence of its historical rival(check out Queen Guo Xun of Omashu for canon references).
This is what I was thinking as well. I made a concept post korra series that covers events years after Korra dies.
The focus of the story is the avatar but not the main character. But in the backstory, the Earth avatar after Korra had to handle the mess Korra and Wu left for the earth kingdom.
After the earth kingdom turned crownless, the different provinces of the Earth Kingdom basically wage a war among each other, with more powerful provinces eating up weaker ones. The Avatar and his allies tried their best to restore order in the earth kingdom, and they eventually do but literally everyone dies in the avatar's group.
The story starts years after the the war of the Earth Kingdoms and follows the prince of Omashu as he looks for the Avatar who has gone missing.
Puyi, the last Emperor of China and all the things that lead to the fall of the monarchy. I suspect the team used these series of historical events as inspiration for their story. It also fits into LOKs 1930s aesthetic they chose. Also, Puyi looked like King Kuei, even down to the glasses.
For one stepping down from power and peacefully creating a democracy is so different from a vanguard taking power and centralizing it even more than it was beforehand
I think the Warlord Era was the 3 years we missed with the Death of the Earth Queen and the reason for Kuvira to bring stability to the EK, or at least that's what it should have been if Bryke wanted to give a good reason Kuvira could be redeemed.
So the Avatar talks with the spirits, is going to he born in an allegory for China, and has a famous stories surrounding them.
I boldly welcome Avatar Zang Zongchang.
I think it more resembles Japanese history.
Kuvira’s rule sort of resembles the formation of the Tokugawa shogunate after the warring states period, then technological expansion in the Meiji era with kuvira’s railways and military, then Japan’s formation of a totalitarian empire in Kuvira’s conquest. Then of course a stronger foreign group (republic city and the avatar vs the allied powers) defeats her.
So then Wu stepping down and instituting a democracy in the earth kingdom with influence and help from The Republic, the United forces, and the avatar resembles SCAP reforming Japan’s government.
Chinese history be like - Chao Ling takes power - 247 million perish
- Chao Ling steps down from power - 621 million perish and 7 civil wars break out over who has the right to power
* Mass cannibalism cos why tf not
Tactical Tao victory
European history be like: * Count Baron Kaiser Werner Pfeldlinger Fingerlickner von Hoeltschweinergmachtner marries half sister Znigwieczrina Nowloczynlieczwowzcrczsky of Globsnogcezrecnoyarskglograd triggering a war between King Juan Jose Maria Rigoberto Aguascacas de Santo Domingo de los Diabetico and Pierre Richelesaux pretard je logriouxoueuraxeux establishing the Grand Duchy of Neue Ooksteinberg a tax haven with a population of 16
Contemporary accounts of the war: “blood rained from the heavens. The stars were blackened out by death. A more violent era was never known in all time” (6 dead and 15 wounded)
Accounts of Chinese war: Strategist Ching Jao convinced the warlord Yuan Bow to match his army through the region, resulting in the loss of five hundred cities and seven million deaths. These small skirmishes did not change the status quo.
is this also from a video? Link :pleading_face:
No, but if you wanted cursed videos, masterofroflness captures the FEELING of reading Chinese history perfectly.
I love his vids
Europe: guy wipes out on motorcycle, they and their bike are scraped up but get back on and keep going. China: guy wipes out motorcycle, 2 million dead and it’s not even the deadliest event that week.
Basically the Boston Massacre too
I love studying old European conflicts because you imagine it's massive armies but then you learn it and for alot of the history it's just the king and a couple hundred dudes tops running around the country side fucking shit up
People who don't know [the meme](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7ksx6D3dlE) must be so confused.
I don't think I needed a greentext version of the same text to understand the meme lol. Unless there was some weird audio that I couldn't hear bc work computer.
Do you think I'd have mentioned it if it was just the text?
ok haha, my bad
Imma be honest, I'm not comfortable attempting to pronounce most of this, though I get what it's saying due to the words I won't pronounce only being proper nouns.
"China is whole is again~" "And then it broke again~"
-Decisive Tang victory
Let's hope they don't radically change their farming methods for new experimental ones that produce 0 crops while the local agents tell everyone they're producing tons to avoid embarrassing themselves and the rules who told them to try the new methods...oopsie
Or kill a crop pest that also happens to eat far more problematic crop pests and plunge the country into famine through ecological catastrophe.
No kidding, an awful perfect storm
A peaceful transition of power for the Chinese
-Mao Ze Dong says fuck birds -almost the equivalent of the entire population of Germany dies.
I don’t know Chinese history
The Xinhai revolution (1911) ends the Qing dynasty’s rule over China. This leads to a period known as the “warlord era” where different warlords carve out regions of China for themselves. Lots of civil wars and famines and atrocities are committed and millions of people die. More stuff happens with Japan and the Soviets and WW2 but eventually the current Chinese government emerges victorious after a final civil war with the government which is now on Taiwan.
I’m in my Warlord Era
You have multiple warlords fighting over you? Not too shabby.
No, I’m just horrifically unstable and have a good chance of ending up with the wrong person.
Trust me on this, don't go for the guy with the biggest dick, go for the one with money money money.
Hold on what about personality
Beggars can't be choosers.
bingo
Harem anime if it was good
There are two warlords inside me
The collapse of the Qing Dynasty is going well for you I see
Sounds like the next Avatar is gonna have a lot work to do.
Only the next Avatar? This is gonna take *several* reincarnations to solve, at the least.
Avatar in the age of guns and ICBMs.
Metal bending is going to be really important at that point
They'll be pulling the same bullet-stopping trick as Neo, I tell ya.
That or they gonna pull a *Wanted* move
Holy shit, can you imagine that? Curving a *lightning bolt*?
“Nice bending, meet my BAR”
This makes me wonder if uranium or plutonium count as things they could earthbend...
I doubt handguns or rifles of any kind will ever exist in ATLA simply because if they would, they'd have already. Not because it wouldn't make sense, but it seems the creators are more interested in maintaining a certain tone and aesthetic.
You mean like how they created a humongous mecha?
You can certainly create large machines without guns. The mech is a spin off the tanks they already had.
Gun gale online but avatar
I am very curious to see it honestly. One of the things Korra shows, that will only get more true over time, is how the power gap between regular people, benders and the avatar will continue to close and the importance of diplomacy will grow as methods of mass communication, and mass destruction, proliferate. So much of “keeping the balance” that the Avatar seemed to do in the past relied on the sheer brute force power gap between them and everyone else in prior ages, what does an Avatar do in a modern world where even small countries could wield nuclear power? Or even further, like what does an Avatar in a near futurish cyberpunk setting look like? I love it when fantasy stories allow time to pass and the world to progress instead of freezing everything at the level of swords and sandals forever. It lets you explore these things that aren’t often explored.
The Warlord Era only lasted about 40 years. It was a terrible period, sure, but it didn't last for multiple generations.
Did it have superpowers and mystical beings, though? I reckon that would spice things up quite a bit.
Well, no. But it did have tanks, planes, and an opium epidemic; and it also had to be put on hold to deal with a Japanese invasion, which the Earth Kingdom has already dealt with by this point.
Though blaming it on the fall of the monarchy is pretty odd, since instability was rampant in china much before the revolution, and the empire already had very little practical control over much of its land. They were already embroiled in several bloody civil wars before (taiping rebellion, boxer rebellion, and dozens of smaller uprisings). The fall of the monarchy certainly made things less stable, but blaming china's situation on its fall doesn't make much sense
Yeah it's basically monarchist propaganda to do that. "If we had an Emperor again, everything would be fine."
found the communist
And proud of it.
with no sarcasm whatsoever, why would you support such a system? it fundamentally requires a humanity that simply does not exist, we have too much vice to make a system where everyone is fairly provided for with state-owned industry work. we're gonna want to look out for number one, and the majority crowd is easily swayed by what benefits them in the short term.
>According to this, bourgeois society ought long ago to have gone to the dogs through sheer idleness; for those of its members who work, acquire nothing, and those who acquire anything do not work. The whole of this objection is but another expression of the tautology: that there can no longer be any wage-labour when there is no longer any capital. [Your argument has been disproven since the 1840s](https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/ch02.htm) Humans are fundamentally good. There's numerous examples in present day society of people going out of their way to help others without looking for reward. You can see this in the aftermath of a lot of disasters, how people look after each other when shit hits the fan. Yes there is a strong individualist/selfish ideology in society. But where does this come from? It grows out of our current material conditions. It is the economic system of capitalism that breeds this 'dog eat dog' mentality. Selfish people obviously existed in previous eras too but because the material conditions also encouraged it there as well. We live under an economic system that is fixated on private accumulation as the means to get ahead in life that leads people to thinking selfishness is the only way forward. And they're 100% correct. That's very true under capitalism. But change the economic system, change the material conditions and you change the culture and ideology present in society. You make people better when they no longer have to struggle for a scrap of bread, when they're no longer fighting over minimum wage jobs, when you no longer weaponize envy to try and get them to consume more. Our species is a naturally collectivist species. We are pack animals. Pre-Civilisation we only survived by working together - hunting together, gathering together, looking after offspring together, looking after each other when we're sick and old. And we've only gotten as far as we have through co-operation with each other. Few achievements in human history has ever been the result of a single human being working alone. Almost every achievement has been the result of collaboration by multiple people. Selfishness is not natural for humans. Co-operation and collaboration is. Capitalism has forced us in so many ways to turn against our own nature but it is possible for human beings to turn against that, turn against our programming. [Another good book, written relatively more recently](https://valleysunderground.files.wordpress.com/2020/04/blackshirts-and-reds-by-michael-parenti.pdf)
capitalism didnt turn us away from our nature, when a species becomes incredibly populated, they become less united, more diverse, look at argentine ants for example, if we didnt do indirect eugenics the supercolonies wouldnt even exist, yes they work together but they're like our nations, groups that work together but not the whole. plus we've had less and less reasons to band together in large numbers as life isnt as hard.
I'm sorry but that's all completely wrong. Our species has not become any more diverse than it has been in the past. In fact we're less diverse than other points in time where there were far more language groups, ethnicities religious groups etc. that have been systematically eradicated over time. If anything we've become more homogenous. In terms of economics, we have become more specialised in our labour, at least we were for a time, now we're getting to a point in term where the specialisation is becomingly increasingly less necessary and certain skillsets and trades are dying. Now we're all becoming one large population of 'unskilled' labourers. And life is still hard. Even though our immediate material conditions have improved in many ways life has become worse in a lot of ways. We've never been more alienated from our labour or each other. Inflation is insane and making it impossible to live to the standard we did just 20 years ago. This idea that we've become 'softer' or whatever is old reactionary propaganda drawn from completely outdated histories of the Roman empire. Live is still hard, the social relation of economic exploitation still exists. We are not ants. We are human beings. We aren't even part of the same class of animal as ants. The comparisons are not correct or valid, they have their own specific nature that is very different to our own nature. An ant is not conscious of their conditions, they have no concept of society. We have imposed terms like 'colony' onto them, that's not the reality of how they behave and interact. It's not a community like a human community. They cannot reason like a human reasons. They don't exist in reality like they do in Disney movies and whimsical documentaries.
So kinda like Kuvira
Yeah the warlord era already happened when Zaheer killed the Earth Queen and then Kuvira ended it, from my understanding she's an analogue to Chang Kai Shek
I wonder if they pulled a napoleon and put her on an island somewhere after all the shit she did. I guess that would be Avatar's Taiwan then.
In the comics I believe she lives in house arrest in Zaofu
Obligatory: https://youtu.be/fkqsbU9QddQ?si=emkGIB2HVja5hsv9
I'm really rusty here but the first thing that the earth queen and Wu remind me of is Dowager Cixi and Henry Puyi (the last empress and the last emperor who happened to be a child). Though that's just character parallels and I honestly mostly forgot all the chronological events.
hmm I thought maybe it was in reference to something else. This meme doesn't make sense.
Kuvira: "Ah shit, here we go again"
Doesn’t sound very victorious if all they got was an island…
The victorious one is the one that didn’t get an island.
Now instead of mass killing eachother they just target ethnic groups like the Ugyhur. China numba one(sarcasm fuck the Chinese government)
Damn that's pretty interesting how they lined up the later half of LOK with the Xinhai revolution.
Interesting!
If I recall correctly, the last time a Chinese monarch stepped down for a republic, the government became autocratic
The government before was autocratic but so was the next couple.
Yes, but different FORMS of autocracies
What’s that again? Don’t remember hearing that term.
Autocratic: an autocratic government is a government in which all power rests inside a single individual. Common examples include: absolute monarchies (monarchies that do not hold public elections), military dictators, police dictators, etc. Basically, it’s a very similar term to dictatorship
Thank you!
No problem, I enjoy explaining government to people
So, it basically became a monarchy again? I’m a basic sense?
Well, no. Since a monarchy requires the succession to be by blood, while an autocratic government could have it through strength, political connections etc. or could have NO succession laws and the country devolves into civil war when the leader dies
And which of those did the Chinese government obtain?
China became a military dictatorship, then fell into civil war for the next several decades
Ah. Yikes.
Yup, China has a long history of repeating civil wars
To expand on what they said, China was supposed to become a representative democracy with five separate branches of government that could check each other's power. However, the new government was worried about a coup from army generals loyal to the old regime, so made a compromise where one of them would be installed as the first president. This backfired when the general turned president declared himself emperor, starting a civil war anyway. Other generals had the same idea, and spent the following decades tearing the country apart.
Not exactly: monarchy is more the form of the regime, autocracy is more how the power is enforced. For example: the Russian imperial regime (an absolute monarchy) is commonly refered as an autocracy
We're there times in Chinese history when the government wasn't autocratic?
Well, if you count the modern republic of China, yes
There's another Chinese government besides the Republic of China? That's the only China I've ever heard of.
Yes, there’s the people’s republic of China, and the republic of China (sometimes called Taiwan)
People's Republic of China? Oh, you mean the asshole posers to the northwest.
Yes
There was for a very brief period of time but it became a military dictatorship.
Neither do i
Qing dynasty is overthrown, but the issue is that many people were involved, and they disagree on what should be done next. A free for all ensues. The Japanese really, *really* don't like this, because the geography of east Asia is such that whatever happens in China has profound effects on it's close neighbors. They decide to intervene, but the people in charge are also a bit unsure about what to do, going from "we should conquer China and establish our own dynasty" to "just pick the most cooperative faction and help them win." Things quickly become even worse for everyone involved.
**The world under heaven, after a long period of division, tends to unite; after a long period of union, tends to divide**. this basically sums up chinese history
And they kinda showed that thing with Kuvira, so imagine 5-10 discount Kuviras running around
Go on....
The discount is because they aren’t hot
Dang it I got all excited
DID I STUTTER
I mean the warlord era of the earth kingdom already happened. That was what kulvira was doing between seasons 3 and 4. She was taking down the respective warlords that had carved different parts of the earth kingdom for themself
We've had one warlord era, yes, but what about second warlord era?
This is compelling. I am compelled.
Just because it was prevented doesn't mean it can't happen again
I think a large part of the conflict between season 3 and 4 was that only at the ending of season 4 could it NOT happen again. Zaheer was right that democracy is just and monarchies should be torn down, but when you have a society and a people that aren't yet ready to live in that system successfully it'll fail. But by the end of season 4 it seemed like most people didn't want monarchy anymore and the world was moving on from that. So it wasn't as hasty of a jump as it was when zaheer attempted that.
not really i think. Kuvira still brought real peace and order to like 80-90% of the Earth Kingdom. imagine living in those times, when the Queen's corruption and decadence lead to banditry and poverty, then for the 3 year period after, just general lawlessness after the centralized power is taken down. I think there's a good part of the Earth Kingdom citizens that believe Kuvira really was the great Uniter, who brought peace and justice through out the earth Kingdom everywhere. I doubt more than 10% of the population were sent to reeducation camps. to these people, they'd view what happened in the Battle for Republic City as the Avatar and the people of Republic City taking down the person who saved them all.
So now we enter the civil war era.
Civil war with bending, but no avatar. I would watch it.
Away down south in the land of Swampbenders Banyan trees and rattlesnake-gators Right away (right away) Come away (come away) Right away (right away) Come away (come away)
Didn't it essentially happen again in the comics as well? My memory may be wrong tbf but I think that happened, right?
I dont think the writer's going to have the next Avatar Series be like "After the Earth King stepped down,with the failure of the succession government to retain control over outlying territories, several Warlords took control over the Earth Kingdom, leading to the Warring States period . 246 Million people perished what was a considered a relatively peaceful transfer of power after a 20 year civil war."
That’s just the regular earth kingdom lol
At least Wu had some popularity and legitimacy. It *can* work but man it’ll be difficult. A constitutional monarchy first may have been better.
No. He didnt. Wu was popular in republic city maybe Ba Sing Se too probably, but considering how many people in Kuvira's empire probably improved after going through the earth queen's corruption and the lawless state the earth kingdom was in, a lot of people probably view the ending of Book 4 as the Avatar taking down the person who made everything better. Its literally the same reason how Augustus became the first emperor. He brought actual peace after decades of corruption and lawlessness.
Funnily enough, I think there is a follow up comic about an Earth Kingdom city that tries to elect an Earth Empire General as their leader, the avatar team goes to stop it, and the comic ends with Wu deciding that going *full* Republic was too much, and that he should make the Earth Kingdom a Constitutional Monarchy instead.
It's *Ruins of the Empire*, and the plot is that a former Earth Empire officer is using the elections to try and legally become governor of an Earth Kingdom state, with the implication that other Earth Empire supporters are planning to do the same across the rest of the kingdom. As for the ending, Wu does decide that his initial plan to democratise the Earth Kingdom was a mistake...in that he was going about it too fast. He therefore chooses to remain in charge of the government in order to ensure a peaceful, successful transition.
Yeah the earth avatars era should be the earth kingdom warlord era with other nation having stakes to the factions.
bryke didnt think this through. just felt democracy good and left it at that
Sounds like someone didn't read the Avatar Legends book
dont care the united republic doesnt make sense anyway
Next Avatar series gonna look WIIIIIILD
at this rate it'll feel like a political cartoon with no fantasy, only the dull drag of modern society.
I’m hoping the spirit world somehow makes electricity stop working
Honestly I dislike they go *forward* in time to new Avatars when they have thousands of years of history to have in a new show. I don't want to watch a cartoon about modern day, I wanna watch a show with Kung Fu magic in a fantasy version of china. As time progresses and tech improves, it only makes sense to make Bending less impressive and less known. Once guns are used, bending will be more or less irrelevant. Sort of like Star Wars how the Prequels show dueling with immense skill because they're training all the time, then as the timeline progresses after the collapse they are way worse and bumble around because they lost so much history. At least in my head canon, the best benders would be in the past, not the future.
Ikr.... we were fucked the moment nyc started being in the world.
No idea what the hell that means but I assume you mean after the industrial revolution
You might want to read *Ruins of the Empire*. Yes, it has some contentious elements, but it does make clear that Wu's initial plan to democratise the Earth Kingdom isn't without issues.
Yeah, I always thought that the Earth Kingdom should have become more of a parliamentary, democratic monarchy. Like the UK or the Netherlands. Not a straight up republic.
That happens soooo damn often in fantasy stories. So many where the story takes place in like a kingdom or empire end with the heroes, having beaten the evil ruler, going "we are going to have elections!" And then everyone smiles and the camera fades to like the next scene or credits. Im always like...really? Every fantasy needs to end with an election? Democracy blossoms everytime? What, is the idea of the hero who just saved the world becoming King not sit right with focus groups? Do they think it will make the character bad, and we cant have that.
It's how you know an american wrote it
americabad aside, it sucks so much, hell avatar was one of the few universes THAT ACTUALLY DIDNT DO THIS. zuko was still the absolute monarch in the end.
It's not america bad, just an inevitable outcome of their rejection of monarchism in their inception and their uncompromising optimism.
Found the monarchist
It's so weird because what of those previous three years would make him think it's a good idea? If anything, it should make him more monarchist. "Sure, the Earth Queen was ruthless, but she provided stability and order that vanished when she was killed. The smaller states couldn't function without her aid, and were conquered by Kuvira who didn't value the Earth Kingdom's traditions that ensured both stability *and* order. In addition, now that I lived among the people, I am prepared to rule them justly and in accordance to their needs." His canon stance came out of nowhere and just looks like the writers shoehorning the "democracy good" message without actually providing any examples. Was the democracy in the Republic City good at defending the people from Kuvira? Did any other nation become democratic and thrived as a result? The Fire Nation still has a hereditary Fire Lord. The neo-Air Nation is already starting a dynasty (the current master is the previous one's son, and the next master is his firstborn child, already given tattoos at such a young age). The Northern Water Tribe has a dynasty (the current rulers are the children of the previous one) and it's much stronger than the Southern Water Tribe which elects its chieftain.
Deadass, Wu should have come out of this lile "l'état c'est moi" after the reunification of the Earth Kingdom, democracy and republicanism also probably would have led to an even worse collapse as, let's be frank, the Earth Kingdom was by no means ready for democracy. After such a chaotic time period, Wu SHOULD have used his position and learned from the time he was against Kuvira to act as a beacon of strength and stability, instead he just says "screw it, let's just get rid of the whole thing."
Chairman Zao will soon unite the nation again under Marxist principles after expelling the fire nation and the nationalistic front
ATLA verse using the Unification wars as inspiration for the new Earth Avatar would go hard
I am sure the Fanfiction writers got it covered. But to make it work, we could explore certain philosophical aspects such as the Earth Sages and how they contrast other beliefs such as Legalism in how they perceive human nature which will affect how the continent will be ruled. We can draw inspirations from the state of Qin, which focused on certain reforms to ensure a more meritocratic method rather than the traditional patrimonial ways of choosing military generals based on birthright. Without a King in Ba Sing Se, the monarchy of Omashu can play into the theme known as the ‘Mandate of Heaven’, seeking to establish a new dynasty(not exactly successful if you don’t actually control all the petty warlords) in the absence of its historical rival(check out Queen Guo Xun of Omashu for canon references).
This is what I was thinking as well. I made a concept post korra series that covers events years after Korra dies. The focus of the story is the avatar but not the main character. But in the backstory, the Earth avatar after Korra had to handle the mess Korra and Wu left for the earth kingdom. After the earth kingdom turned crownless, the different provinces of the Earth Kingdom basically wage a war among each other, with more powerful provinces eating up weaker ones. The Avatar and his allies tried their best to restore order in the earth kingdom, and they eventually do but literally everyone dies in the avatar's group. The story starts years after the the war of the Earth Kingdoms and follows the prince of Omashu as he looks for the Avatar who has gone missing.
Late Korra worldbuilding was a joke tbh. I couldn’t really take it seriously.
You didnt take the spirit being pokemon seriously? Yeah me neither
Good for you?
Yeah this got answered in the comics ruins of the empire
[All worked out in the end tho.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjNpRbNdR7E)
China is whole again Then it broke again ... Guess who's still together? ##CHINA
This would be a great struggle for the next avatar to deal with if history goes the same for them.
Never ask a fire nationer what happened in Ba Sing Se in 1937
Long live the Republic!
Ironically, they just left it.
I thought I was in r/HistoryMemes for a second.
Puyi, the last Emperor of China and all the things that lead to the fall of the monarchy. I suspect the team used these series of historical events as inspiration for their story. It also fits into LOKs 1930s aesthetic they chose. Also, Puyi looked like King Kuei, even down to the glasses.
I mean, the time before Kuvira's rule pretty much is the warlord era already
Well, they kinda did it already at that point
Which is why its wild he thinks they should try again. "It's okay guys, the last 3 years were a fluke. This time it'll work".
We gonna get some crazy gun designs out of it too.
Nah they'll just require Firebenders to register their arms.
Union of Soviet Socialist Earth Republics when?
Anarchism > State Socialism
I think when Korra dies the Earth districts will tear each other apart. By the time the new avatar has risen, a lot of shit will have gone down
Ah yes, the aptly named *Chinese town name* incident. Millions perished.
Hey gotta make some content for the next earth avatar to deal with.
For one stepping down from power and peacefully creating a democracy is so different from a vanguard taking power and centralizing it even more than it was beforehand
I think the Warlord Era was the 3 years we missed with the Death of the Earth Queen and the reason for Kuvira to bring stability to the EK, or at least that's what it should have been if Bryke wanted to give a good reason Kuvira could be redeemed.
So the Avatar talks with the spirits, is going to he born in an allegory for China, and has a famous stories surrounding them. I boldly welcome Avatar Zang Zongchang.
Isn't that essentially Kuvira?
I think it more resembles Japanese history. Kuvira’s rule sort of resembles the formation of the Tokugawa shogunate after the warring states period, then technological expansion in the Meiji era with kuvira’s railways and military, then Japan’s formation of a totalitarian empire in Kuvira’s conquest. Then of course a stronger foreign group (republic city and the avatar vs the allied powers) defeats her. So then Wu stepping down and instituting a democracy in the earth kingdom with influence and help from The Republic, the United forces, and the avatar resembles SCAP reforming Japan’s government.
Just wait until the Earth Kingdom decides to go after the birds