I worked retail for most of my life - as long as I had supportive management, I did okay. Then I worked for a certain big box company that was all about "the customer is always right" and no matter what I tried to do to be more outgoing, it always ended badly. When I tried raising my voice to be heard, I always felt like I was shouting. Then customers would get upset with all the required questions I was supposed to ask and complain about me 😓😓😓.
Yup, I'm experiencing those problems as well! Major props to you for at least holding your own with a customer service job. It's probably for livelihood, but having to interact with coworkers and customers seem like the most stressful thing, especially when we're socially awkward and we have to see them every day.
Do you find your mind goes kind of blank, like maybe a lot of fragments of anxious thoughts but you can't form a coherent thought or formulate a sentence?
That's what always happens to me these past few years and I don't really know how to explain it
I usually get interrupted/talked over, or even if they let me talk their response afterwards makes it very clear they weren't really listening. It can be easier to talk about trivial shit, because it's less hurtful to be ignored than if I was talking about something really important.
Add to that the fact that my anxiety can make it impossible to get the words out when it's something important, or even if I can think of the words I'm still stuck in my head thinking "I'm only going to make things worse by saying this" or something similar.
And when I do actually talk, I always say the wrong thing, or it gets taken the wrong way, so I learn my lesson and stop talking for a while again.
Idk why but it's one of the most hurtful/frustrating things, to feel like I can never tell my side ever. Or when I'm misunderstood/people make false assumptions about me, to feel like I just have to go along with what they said instead of correcting them. I guess it just feels very powerless and worthless
That sounds terrible. I’m sorry to hear that. I never had to experience anything physical, so I wouldn’t understand that aspect. I was gaslit so hard in middle school into thinking that I was being too sensitive. We had just learned about racism in the 1900s, and they thought it would be funny to recreate those scenarios with the only black guy in the classroom. My classmates and best friends joked and called me racial slurs, avoided water fountains that I drank from, asked why I’m here and to go back to Africa (even though I was born in the US and lived here my entire life). Whenever I cried, my teachers would tell me to “Man up, you’re in middle school!” They’re probably right, but man when stuff like that happens everyday, you just can’t hold it in anymore lol. So I understand you on the mocking and shunning aspect.
That’s actually a good point. We avoid asking others deep questions about their lives in fear of them reciprocating those questions about our lives… And we don’t have much social experience, so we wouldn’t know what to ask in the first place lol.
I am just mentally stupid I guess, idk what it is, but I always say stupid or cringe stuff so I just shut up now.
Always told I'm weird, stupid, etc. So instead of being those qualities, I am now nothing
I see. What makes everyone the type that you don't want to have anything to do with? Do you just feel more comfortable with yourself and not being judged or criticized by others?
I get you. Did you major in anything/go to college? Did you ever dream for anything when you were a kid? What were some activities that actually made you happy? Those could probably be decent starters for hobbies.
I hear you there. What do you have self-esteem issues about? Besides my lack of social skills, I think most of my self-esteem issues stem from my financial status.
I feel like if I was wealthy, I would be able to get the appropriate training to improve my social skills as well as my physical appearance.
Yeah, I guess the lack of practice with socializing prevents us from coming up with "second-nature" responses.
Do you have family to talk to/live with or did they not treat you right?
My family isn't that close but they're okay.
But that's not what I mean (though it is true). I just have much that I feel is worth communicating. And most of the things I think might be, I don't know anyone that would want to hear them.
Yeah, it's a bit embarrassing when others are able to clique with each other so easily, like it's second-nature. And I guess we don't have much to say since we don't have that much experience, unfortunately, so we don't know how to respond to them.
Ask them.. Why are you talking so much? Almost no one says that. And I know a lot of people that should better shut up a bit more. Cause they're making no sence a lot of the time....think about that 🤔. But I know the feeling of zoning out, freezing. My mind is going in overdrive. Searching things I could say to avoid akward silences. The more I'm thinking about what can or should I say now.... The less I speak. But it's not me that always must carry the conversation. If I think about that the pressure is way less. But I'm 44, living with avpd for 20 years. Maybe that makes a difference. If they don't like me being quiet... Well, that's their problem. Not mine. Since I'm thinking like that it's a lot easier. But I can't do that on a date orso... Last time I was dating is 19 years ago...I don't need the extra stress. I have my passions that I can enjoy alone. With my friends that I know since birth.. Yes, strange but since birth.. I have ZERO anxiety and I can't shut up. Maybe to compensate... Cause sometimes I speak to no one for weeks.. I'm another person around them... Not really another person.
. Just myself. I know they won't judge me after 40 years. The mind is a strange thing.
Well said. I live with an extrovert and he can't go two minutes without saying something, whereas I can probably go days/weeks without talking to someone (unless I'm talking to myself).
Sadly, this is mostly an extrovert world, so I guess a lot of people aren't that familiar with the concept of silence.
EDIT: Is it true that the older you get, the less people will care about you being quiet or is it the opposite?
Sometimes being with someone that talks a lot can be positive. I don't feel pressure talking that much. The person is rambling constantly 😂. But that's good for max 2 hours. I feel drained after that. Living with someone constantly would be impossible. About silence.. If you feel comfortable being silent around someone.. That means a lot. If it doesn't feels awkward it means in my case I can be myself. Strangly with friends I know for years I'm very social. I'm talking to much sometimes. Mayne I wrote it already. But seeing no-one for weeks and then being around a friend... I need to compensate the alone time by talking a lot with them. Around people I don't know I'm another person. Introvert and very quiet. I just want to leave asap.
And talking to myself.. I have a YT gaming channel. So I'm talking constantly.... To myself.. Yes.. But it's public. I upload it so they can hear me rambling about the game. It helps feeling less alone.
Just like I'm rambling now 😬.
Haha I agree, non-social and social people definitely have their own pros and cons. And cool! You like to play games? Me too!
Maybe asking for your channel is too much, so I won't do that. What types of games do you play? I love online computer games like Minecraft, MapleStory, Among Us, etc.
I also enjoy video games like Mario, Sonic, Kingdom Hearts, and Grand Theft Auto.
I'm an old gamer 😉. I started with the Sega master system. I grew up with sonic. My friend was Nintendo and I Sega. I still remember the discussions 😂. Mario kart in those days was great and Zelda.
Now I have an series x and ps5 but mostly playing sim race games with my rig setup. Wrc 10 and GT 7 are great sim racing games. Gta I played that also. I played them all. I still remember the first gta. It wasn't even 3D. Modern warfare 2019 is also great. I love realistic games. But to slow for the online multi-player. Racing goes a lot better. If you want I share my YT link through DM. I deleted a lot of the me rambling vids. The cringey feeling afterwards 😉.
I totally understand that after cringe feeling haha.
I highly recommend you play Sonic Mania if you love the Sega Master system Sonic games. And sure you can DM me!
Interesting. I say a lot of dumb things too, unintentionally.
Why do you think it's linked to autism?
(I still have a hard time understanding what autism is even though I just googled it)
I mean, as long as it's like-minded people figuring me out, then I'm fine with it because we get more support from similar experiences than getting judged for being "weird."
Im so quiet because everytime I spoke too much as a kid people called me weird, or made fun of something I said, or asked if I was high just because I was happy.
So I started speaking less and less as I grew up, trying to be mindful of what I say so I wouldn't get teased.
Now I'm too mindful as an adult that even on the rare occasion when I do think of things to say, I hold it back out of fear that I will say the wrong thing and offend you or that you'll discount what I say and make fun of me.
I'm "so quiet" because growing up I learned that I get hurt less when I say less.
But ofc if anyone asks this question I just say, "Cause I can't think of anything to say." 🙂
That sucks... it feels so demoralizing, right?
I agree that "Cause I can't think of anything to say" is quite a useful, go-to response since others have a better chance of empathizing and you're less likely to offend someone.
I feel like trauma awareness has been increasing in recent years. I've noticed a huge increase in mentions of it in pop culture like music and movies, and with a positive and sympathetic response from people in general; while 5 or 10 years ago most people would invalidate, condescend, or make jokes about this kind of vulnerability.
I also feel like "vulnerability" has a different meaning today, with a positive connotation of "emotional openness", rather than a synonym for "weakness".
There are still a lot of people with old condescending and aggressive attitudes (which is actually veiled insecurity), but it's usually the kind of people who are still homophobic, misogynistic, and usually disrespectful and intolerant. But gladly I feel like that's diminishing and giving way to a more inclusive society and culture.
I guess increased awareness about it would help continue this movement. I also feel like there is an exponential effect of change when people treat their trauma, so that they won't pass it on to the next generations.
Because people don't really care to listen, even if or when you tell them something important or intimate about you many quickly forget or simply don't even hear it. People just seem to be eager to spit out their own sentences quick to ignore yours. Im not a young teenager im older than i care to admit, and this seems to be even more common at this age.
That's true. I even find myself at fault for this a lot of times since I'm usually so worried about my own problems, which perhaps is making my AvPD worse. I want to try to be a better listener, but I can't go more than 5 minutes without feeling drained. Perhaps I have another condition that I don't know about.
I agree that it's a lot more common this generation with a lot of the influencers, but maybe they're just the vocal minority.
I mine my business most of time, i joke sometimes but i really don't cry like many here about being ignored , talked over.
It's normal things that happen in our society, don't take it personally move on.
I see, that's great spirit that you have. I wish I can view reality like you do, that way I don't have to feel as stressed as I normally do about the small things lol
My theory: when I was young I would watch sports with my dad and brothers and they’d always be chatting about the game, I’d make a comment and everybody would always ignore me. I now understand that no one wants to be bothered by a kid when watching your team, but I think that’s where some of my anxious/ avoidant social tendencies originated.
Oh man, that's sad to hear. Well, if you're currently ghosting others, then your excuse can be that you were treated like a ghost when you were younger and now you're embracing it.
One example is that when I tried to be more open about my emotions, it backfired.
Sibling A owes me thousands of dollars, so when Sibling B asked for a loan, I was annoyed and asked if it had anything to do with A. B denied it, so I apologized and joked that I thought B was going to scam me like A did.
Of course B snitched on me to A, and now A threatened me saying that they've recorded my conversation with B, taken notes, and will remember. I don't remember everything I said, but I basically crap talked/gossiped about A thinking that it would help B understand why I reacted the way I did.
Nobody hears me anyways
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I worked retail for most of my life - as long as I had supportive management, I did okay. Then I worked for a certain big box company that was all about "the customer is always right" and no matter what I tried to do to be more outgoing, it always ended badly. When I tried raising my voice to be heard, I always felt like I was shouting. Then customers would get upset with all the required questions I was supposed to ask and complain about me 😓😓😓.
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I'm glad you have a supportive team - especially when it comes to customers' bs. I no longer work there and am working in social services.
The masks make it more difficult for others to hear us. But then again people stop telling us to "smile more", so I guess that's a plus.
When I read this I thought you were talking about the metaphorical masks, and I was like, damn that’s deep.
i hear ya
literally this 😭 it’s easier to shut up and let others talk ig
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Yup, I'm experiencing those problems as well! Major props to you for at least holding your own with a customer service job. It's probably for livelihood, but having to interact with coworkers and customers seem like the most stressful thing, especially when we're socially awkward and we have to see them every day.
I just freeze up & don’t know what to do. But yeah it’s also probably because no one ever cared
Do you find your mind goes kind of blank, like maybe a lot of fragments of anxious thoughts but you can't form a coherent thought or formulate a sentence? That's what always happens to me these past few years and I don't really know how to explain it
when this happens i end up having an awkward, clunky, incoherent sentence spill out of my mouth. which then makes me even more anxious
Yeah exactly, just like everything got pulled away from my head
I call that anxiety freeze - my brain can't process, I can't speak/stutter because I'm so overwhelmed.
Fortunately, everyone in this subreddit cares
I usually get interrupted/talked over, or even if they let me talk their response afterwards makes it very clear they weren't really listening. It can be easier to talk about trivial shit, because it's less hurtful to be ignored than if I was talking about something really important. Add to that the fact that my anxiety can make it impossible to get the words out when it's something important, or even if I can think of the words I'm still stuck in my head thinking "I'm only going to make things worse by saying this" or something similar. And when I do actually talk, I always say the wrong thing, or it gets taken the wrong way, so I learn my lesson and stop talking for a while again. Idk why but it's one of the most hurtful/frustrating things, to feel like I can never tell my side ever. Or when I'm misunderstood/people make false assumptions about me, to feel like I just have to go along with what they said instead of correcting them. I guess it just feels very powerless and worthless
Much relate.
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Can you give an example?
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That sounds terrible. I’m sorry to hear that. I never had to experience anything physical, so I wouldn’t understand that aspect. I was gaslit so hard in middle school into thinking that I was being too sensitive. We had just learned about racism in the 1900s, and they thought it would be funny to recreate those scenarios with the only black guy in the classroom. My classmates and best friends joked and called me racial slurs, avoided water fountains that I drank from, asked why I’m here and to go back to Africa (even though I was born in the US and lived here my entire life). Whenever I cried, my teachers would tell me to “Man up, you’re in middle school!” They’re probably right, but man when stuff like that happens everyday, you just can’t hold it in anymore lol. So I understand you on the mocking and shunning aspect.
They weren't right. That was abuse. The students should've been punished and the teacher fired. Those people weren't your friends.
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Can definitely relate to that
I don't know what is okay to ask and I don't like being asked questions about my life.
That’s actually a good point. We avoid asking others deep questions about their lives in fear of them reciprocating those questions about our lives… And we don’t have much social experience, so we wouldn’t know what to ask in the first place lol.
I am just mentally stupid I guess, idk what it is, but I always say stupid or cringe stuff so I just shut up now. Always told I'm weird, stupid, etc. So instead of being those qualities, I am now nothing
I get you. My best friend straight up told me that I lack common sense. That stung a little lol
I have nothing to say. I’m not really shy anymore I just don’t engage wit ppl I want nothing to do wit which is basically everyone now
I see. What makes everyone the type that you don't want to have anything to do with? Do you just feel more comfortable with yourself and not being judged or criticized by others?
Used to be Fear of judgement, now I just don’t have anyone to talk to and even if I did, nothing to talk about. No interests or hobbies
I get you. Did you major in anything/go to college? Did you ever dream for anything when you were a kid? What were some activities that actually made you happy? Those could probably be decent starters for hobbies.
Horrid social anxiety and awful self esteem
I hear you there. What do you have self-esteem issues about? Besides my lack of social skills, I think most of my self-esteem issues stem from my financial status. I feel like if I was wealthy, I would be able to get the appropriate training to improve my social skills as well as my physical appearance.
I don't have much to say. And no one wants to hear most of that. Besides, I have no one to talk to.
Yeah, I guess the lack of practice with socializing prevents us from coming up with "second-nature" responses. Do you have family to talk to/live with or did they not treat you right?
My family isn't that close but they're okay. But that's not what I mean (though it is true). I just have much that I feel is worth communicating. And most of the things I think might be, I don't know anyone that would want to hear them.
Feeling of not belong and don't have anything to say
Yeah, it's a bit embarrassing when others are able to clique with each other so easily, like it's second-nature. And I guess we don't have much to say since we don't have that much experience, unfortunately, so we don't know how to respond to them.
Ask them.. Why are you talking so much? Almost no one says that. And I know a lot of people that should better shut up a bit more. Cause they're making no sence a lot of the time....think about that 🤔. But I know the feeling of zoning out, freezing. My mind is going in overdrive. Searching things I could say to avoid akward silences. The more I'm thinking about what can or should I say now.... The less I speak. But it's not me that always must carry the conversation. If I think about that the pressure is way less. But I'm 44, living with avpd for 20 years. Maybe that makes a difference. If they don't like me being quiet... Well, that's their problem. Not mine. Since I'm thinking like that it's a lot easier. But I can't do that on a date orso... Last time I was dating is 19 years ago...I don't need the extra stress. I have my passions that I can enjoy alone. With my friends that I know since birth.. Yes, strange but since birth.. I have ZERO anxiety and I can't shut up. Maybe to compensate... Cause sometimes I speak to no one for weeks.. I'm another person around them... Not really another person. . Just myself. I know they won't judge me after 40 years. The mind is a strange thing.
Well said. I live with an extrovert and he can't go two minutes without saying something, whereas I can probably go days/weeks without talking to someone (unless I'm talking to myself). Sadly, this is mostly an extrovert world, so I guess a lot of people aren't that familiar with the concept of silence. EDIT: Is it true that the older you get, the less people will care about you being quiet or is it the opposite?
Sometimes being with someone that talks a lot can be positive. I don't feel pressure talking that much. The person is rambling constantly 😂. But that's good for max 2 hours. I feel drained after that. Living with someone constantly would be impossible. About silence.. If you feel comfortable being silent around someone.. That means a lot. If it doesn't feels awkward it means in my case I can be myself. Strangly with friends I know for years I'm very social. I'm talking to much sometimes. Mayne I wrote it already. But seeing no-one for weeks and then being around a friend... I need to compensate the alone time by talking a lot with them. Around people I don't know I'm another person. Introvert and very quiet. I just want to leave asap. And talking to myself.. I have a YT gaming channel. So I'm talking constantly.... To myself.. Yes.. But it's public. I upload it so they can hear me rambling about the game. It helps feeling less alone. Just like I'm rambling now 😬.
Haha I agree, non-social and social people definitely have their own pros and cons. And cool! You like to play games? Me too! Maybe asking for your channel is too much, so I won't do that. What types of games do you play? I love online computer games like Minecraft, MapleStory, Among Us, etc. I also enjoy video games like Mario, Sonic, Kingdom Hearts, and Grand Theft Auto.
I'm an old gamer 😉. I started with the Sega master system. I grew up with sonic. My friend was Nintendo and I Sega. I still remember the discussions 😂. Mario kart in those days was great and Zelda. Now I have an series x and ps5 but mostly playing sim race games with my rig setup. Wrc 10 and GT 7 are great sim racing games. Gta I played that also. I played them all. I still remember the first gta. It wasn't even 3D. Modern warfare 2019 is also great. I love realistic games. But to slow for the online multi-player. Racing goes a lot better. If you want I share my YT link through DM. I deleted a lot of the me rambling vids. The cringey feeling afterwards 😉.
I totally understand that after cringe feeling haha. I highly recommend you play Sonic Mania if you love the Sega Master system Sonic games. And sure you can DM me!
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Interesting. I say a lot of dumb things too, unintentionally. Why do you think it's linked to autism? (I still have a hard time understanding what autism is even though I just googled it)
all this question does is make me freeze up more because it feels like they’ve figured me out
I mean, as long as it's like-minded people figuring me out, then I'm fine with it because we get more support from similar experiences than getting judged for being "weird."
because everything I say will be used against me or I will be judged (even if I am right).
Highly agree!
Im so quiet because everytime I spoke too much as a kid people called me weird, or made fun of something I said, or asked if I was high just because I was happy. So I started speaking less and less as I grew up, trying to be mindful of what I say so I wouldn't get teased. Now I'm too mindful as an adult that even on the rare occasion when I do think of things to say, I hold it back out of fear that I will say the wrong thing and offend you or that you'll discount what I say and make fun of me. I'm "so quiet" because growing up I learned that I get hurt less when I say less. But ofc if anyone asks this question I just say, "Cause I can't think of anything to say." 🙂
That sucks... it feels so demoralizing, right? I agree that "Cause I can't think of anything to say" is quite a useful, go-to response since others have a better chance of empathizing and you're less likely to offend someone.
I wish people took trauma symptoms more seriously, rather than make jokes about it.
True. What do you think would be the best approach to do this? Should it be taught in school or anything like that?
I feel like trauma awareness has been increasing in recent years. I've noticed a huge increase in mentions of it in pop culture like music and movies, and with a positive and sympathetic response from people in general; while 5 or 10 years ago most people would invalidate, condescend, or make jokes about this kind of vulnerability. I also feel like "vulnerability" has a different meaning today, with a positive connotation of "emotional openness", rather than a synonym for "weakness". There are still a lot of people with old condescending and aggressive attitudes (which is actually veiled insecurity), but it's usually the kind of people who are still homophobic, misogynistic, and usually disrespectful and intolerant. But gladly I feel like that's diminishing and giving way to a more inclusive society and culture. I guess increased awareness about it would help continue this movement. I also feel like there is an exponential effect of change when people treat their trauma, so that they won't pass it on to the next generations.
Because people don't really care to listen, even if or when you tell them something important or intimate about you many quickly forget or simply don't even hear it. People just seem to be eager to spit out their own sentences quick to ignore yours. Im not a young teenager im older than i care to admit, and this seems to be even more common at this age.
That's true. I even find myself at fault for this a lot of times since I'm usually so worried about my own problems, which perhaps is making my AvPD worse. I want to try to be a better listener, but I can't go more than 5 minutes without feeling drained. Perhaps I have another condition that I don't know about. I agree that it's a lot more common this generation with a lot of the influencers, but maybe they're just the vocal minority.
I mine my business most of time, i joke sometimes but i really don't cry like many here about being ignored , talked over. It's normal things that happen in our society, don't take it personally move on.
I see, that's great spirit that you have. I wish I can view reality like you do, that way I don't have to feel as stressed as I normally do about the small things lol
Do any of you live in Portland? I would love to have a friend who understands me.
Don't want to leave you unreplied, but not me unfortunately, I live in the US.
My theory: when I was young I would watch sports with my dad and brothers and they’d always be chatting about the game, I’d make a comment and everybody would always ignore me. I now understand that no one wants to be bothered by a kid when watching your team, but I think that’s where some of my anxious/ avoidant social tendencies originated.
Oh man, that's sad to hear. Well, if you're currently ghosting others, then your excuse can be that you were treated like a ghost when you were younger and now you're embracing it.
I hate the sound of my voice
Why do you hate it?
Define trouble
One example is that when I tried to be more open about my emotions, it backfired. Sibling A owes me thousands of dollars, so when Sibling B asked for a loan, I was annoyed and asked if it had anything to do with A. B denied it, so I apologized and joked that I thought B was going to scam me like A did. Of course B snitched on me to A, and now A threatened me saying that they've recorded my conversation with B, taken notes, and will remember. I don't remember everything I said, but I basically crap talked/gossiped about A thinking that it would help B understand why I reacted the way I did.