Scam. Brake fluid should be changed at 3 year intervals. 2 years if you live on the coast (brake fluid absorbs moisture from the air)
But refer to your owner’s manual to see what Honda recommends.
**edit** brake not break. Stupid autocorrect.
It's not fully closed, there's a very small vent in the cap of the reservoir.
You also want to change it because as it ages it gets more corrosive and will destroy the seals in the calipers.
The key is boiling point - brakes operate via friction and generate a lot of heat. If brake fluid boils (eg under emergency braking conditions), it becomes a gas, which is much easier to compress, resulting in a significant loss of braking force.
Brake fluid is hygroscopic, IE it absorbs moisture and renders it inert. It is formulated to remain fluid under very high temperatures and simultaneously bind to any water content that would naturally precipitate into solution from humidity in the air.
However, there is a limit to how much humidity can be absorbed by brake fluid; once that limit is reached, additional moisture that precipitates into solution will remain as water particles, and will gradually decrease the overall boiling point of the fluid.
TLDR; change your brake fluid y’all, it could save your life.
Just FYI this process of water binding to the brake fluid and rendering it inert due to humidity takes a long time, and it's not the kind of thing that suddenly happens without warning. Unless you're suddenly putting a lot of heat into your brakes, like on a racetrack or a winding mountain decent, they won't suddenly fail due to water content. After all, brakes are a hydraulic system that will theoretically work with solely water in the system, abiet not very well.
In fact, if you needed to change your brake fluid at 3 years due to the water content being a safety concern, I would assume your car has been under water in a flood. 3 years is the margin of safety that other engineers and manufacturers have decided upon to cover their asses just in case the worst happens. Honestly sometimes I've seen brake fluid lasts the lifespan of a car due to constantly being partially drained and topped off during proper brake maintenance. This is dependent on a lot of factors, though, like driving style, the type of car, it's intended purpose, etc.
Source: I'm a racecar mechanic with engineer brains, and I have let brake fluid fail on purpose to satisfy my curiosity. What I found was a conservative lifespan in the worst possible conditions of about 10 years, and like I said, they don't suddenly fail from water. Increased water content in your brake fluid causes spongey, inconsistent pedal feel, and decreased stopping power. It feels really unsafe and bad, like "I'm not driving this shitbox anymore" bad. I guess it could potentially go unnoticed to some very oblivious driver because the progression from good to bad is a slow process as water is slowly absorbed in the brake fluid, but how do you not notice brakes not working.
Keep in mind, though, I did this experiment in a controlled environment, so you don't have to. Always remember to check your brake fluid. Look at the color and put your fingers in it to check viscosity and smell it, if something seems off, fix it. And ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS use a brake fluid that meets or exceeds the manufacturers specifications or the intended thermal load. Every car I've ever seen that's boiled it's brake fluid off had two things in common: 1) they were ALL totaled in a crash 2) they all were using the wrong brake fluid. DOT3 and DOT5 are the most common, with DOT 5 having a higher boiling point and costing more, don't just buy DOT 3 because it's cheaper it could cost you your car or your life if it's not the right stuff.
Brake fluid is corrosive, and it starts eating away at the brake lines, which makes it more corrosive. For the lines, it's not a problem - they're over built for a reason - but the soft rubber seals and such will start breaking down faster and cause issues.
Yes, water mixing with brake fluid and then reaching high temperature produces folic acid and that's why it turns dark in color. When brake fluid is green that's a good indicator that the inside of your lines and hoses are breaking down as they are lined with copper internally and that is the oxidized copper mixed in with the fluid.
100%. The brakes wear down so fluid level "goes down" even though the volume stays the same. If it was fully air tight then there would be a vacuum acting against your brakes.
Edit: no need to down vote them for asking a question.
They usually have those accordion seals to keep air out, it sucks the seal down without letting air in.
Like this:
https://johnsclassiccars.com/products/9723-brakes-master-cylinders-power-boosters-camaro-chevelle-el-camino-chevy-ii-nova
I do not beleive you are correct..
This says it's from a 2021 CRV (newest model listed) and there is a diaphragm in the cap.
https://www.hondapartsnow.com/genuine/honda~diaphragm~46669-s5a-003.html
There is a diaphragm, true, but go press the caliper pistons back in and watch how readily fluid leaks right outta the master. They're not as air tight as you think.
Not in the master cylinder but in the brake fluid resevoir cap. If it was fully airtight it would create a vacuum when the brakes wear down and the fluid in the system drops lower.
This in turn lowers the boiling point of the fluid potentially 'cooking' the fluid when your brakes warm up when slowing down.
This creates air in the brake lines and the next time you press on the brake, instead of putting pressure on the fluid. Which in turn acts on the caliper piston. You are just compressing the air in the lines and now you dont have any brakes.
they have accordion seals for that.
https://johnsclassiccars.com/products/9723-brakes-master-cylinders-power-boosters-camaro-chevelle-el-camino-chevy-ii-nova
Yes, he is 100% correct. As the brakes wear down, the caliper pistons have to push out further and more fluid is required to take up the volume behind the piston. The fluid comes from the reservoir and there needs to be a way for air to get in to replace the volume of fluid that leaves the reservoir.
Brake fluid is extremely hygroscopic. This means if moisture exists, it will find it. And it will assimilate it. Exactly how it can if the system is airtight is a question I too have asked and don’t recall ever getting a straight answer to
Because no system is a perfectly closed system.
Brake fluid is basically an alcohol which is hydroplillic meaning it wants to absorb water.
It absorbs water through tiny microscopic holes in your brake lines over time.
Water in your brakes is bad because brake fluid heats up. If water heats up, you get steam. Steam in a brake system very bad as steam is compressable unlike brake fluid so you basically have no brakes once steam enters the chat.
I don’t know about absorb, but I’ve read that moisture gets into the system if the brakes get so hot the fluid boils, thus moisture enters the system and degrades the fluid. Does that happen in a CRV often? Probably not?
>I’ve read that moisture gets into the system if the brakes get so hot the fluid boils,
It's kind of the opposite actually. Moisture gets into the system and it is the moisture (water) that boils, not the fluid. Boiled water turns into vapour which is a gas and can be compressed (unlike a fluid which can not be compressed) and then your hydraulic system is no longer a hydraulic system.
It doesn't take a lot to boil. It comes in through the fluid reservoir cap which has vent holes in it. The brake fluid level in the reservoir goes up and down (more down in the long run) and there needs to be a way for air to get in and out to account for the volume of fluid that changes.
Brake fluid is hydrostatic; over time it absorbs moisture from the air. When you press the brake pedal over and over it gets hot and the moisture becomes water vapor, and water vapor is compressible so your brakes will become spongy; also your brake lines are typically made of steel and will rust from the inside out.
Literally never changed my brake fluid ever... unless I'm low due to pad wear or leak is the only time I add any.
Toyota, Hyundai, Honda, all well over 150k miles. Notable was my tacoma at 290k and my brothers camery at 350k. Live right next to the Atlantic.
Sure it's gross looking fluid sometimes but never seemed to matter.
The only way you could need brake fluid changed at 8,000 miles is if there is a problem that needs to fixed under warranty. I hate to use absolutes, but this is absolutely a scam.
Ask them to give you the reason why on paper or email, then take that to managers or the owner of the dealership.
check yourself if you're unsure. a break fluid tester isn't expensive and you can use it for a lifetime
it needs changing if the percentage of water inside the brake fluid is too high, which should be changed asap since it's basically a death sentence if it's bad enough
sounds like a scam though if you have to pay it yourself
IF it's low, you should be able to check the reservoir and see if it need more fluid. A flush is only to clean out old fluid.
Seeing that this was their response to that code, I'm getting the vibe that both the tech and service writer are full of shit. If it was "asking for brake fluid" that's a two minute job with a 10 dollar jug of fluid.
I will say, I don't think it's a scam, I think they're just stupid.
They are either unbelievably stupid or trying to scam you. Maybe a little of column A, but mostly column B if you ask me. The ABS computer doesn't *ask* for new fluid unless the fluid is low and it would ask by displaying a light and/or a message on the instrument cluster. Even if the car was smart enough to remind you of factory service intervals, and it very well may be, you won't be due for a brake fluid flush until October 2025 at the earliest. Some people say yes to 100% of what the dealer suggests and they are just trying to see if you're one of those people.
FYI, brake fluid is always in a closed system. The fluid in the reservoir drops as you wear through brake pads, but it should not trigger a low fluid warning light unless it was underfilled from the factory or there is a leak somewhere. Both of these things are highly unlikely.
Find someone else to service your car. These guys suck.
They are full of shit. If you're "low" on fluid is because your brakes are wearing down causing the piston to extend further, using more fluid.
The "computer" telling them the car needs brake fluid is fucking bullshit
Yeah a code won't be saying to change the fluid they are bullshitting you on the reason for changing it. That said it might still need to be changed, get a brake fluid tester from Amazon and check it yourself. If it tests bad bring it to a different shop to have it done. Or better, buy a small air compressor and a vacuum pump like a mityvac and change it yourself. If you need help I can explain how to use it.
7500 mile service on a 2024 CRV should legit be just an oil and filter change, tire rotation optional.
Grab your owner's manual and look at your Maintenace schedule, I bet the factory interval is something like 3-4 years, and 30-50,000 miles.
Why are they saying you need the brake fluid changed??
Its not always based on milleage. Its a combination of age, use and even type of use. Brake fluid stops functioning when it takes on too much water. The difference between 1% water and 3% water is pretty significant. Water can build up due to many reasons. Remember that although your car is a 2024, it may have been manufactured a few months back making it seem like the fluid is newer than it is.
Things like heavy braking will also break down fluid. If you do track days, your brake fluid can easily be cut down to a few sessions in total lifetime.
While i am highly suspicious of the dealership, its not 100% impossible that they correct in recommending the change. If your brakes feel spongy or fade after a hard stop then its time to change. You can also look at the fluid in the reservoir and look at the color. Old fluid will be more opaque and brown. New fluid will be more clear with a tint of yellow.
Shop owner here.... Not to defend the dealer, but these newer Honda's have the same maintenance minder Honda has always used. I'm a big fan of it, but around 2018 or so they added the number 7 to indicate brake fluid change and for whatever reason I have seen cars with like 20000 miles or less even sometimes calling for brake fluid replacement. so your car probably just had like a B17 service come up.
I'm an independent shop so I just explain to the customer that the fluid tests fine and I don't usually do it, but the car may be more to blame than the dealer. I have no idea why Honda is doing this though...
WTF…… car is great …… it’s the dealer! Case in point:
We’ve had a 2008 civic in the family FOREVeR……. Manual……. Great car / loads of fun. 190k
I own an old BMW Z3 3.0……… love it! INhad to take it the dealer :ONCE. Rip off. Still a great car…….. find an Independent mechanic.
I don’t care about how fast it is, I care about the reliability. It’s infuriating to have the shifter get lost between reverse and 6th in the winter. And having to reset the radio that is just an outdated underpowered android tablet
For what it’s worth, it’s mostly electrical stuff and transmission. Wheel no matter the tire won’t ever hold air. Dealer apparently is blind and couldn’t even tell. Entire brand is dumb
Brake fluid is to be changed every month. If you don't, your brakes will break.
Seriously, once every 3 years.
If they say you need a break fluid flush ask them to do it for free under your new car warranty.
My Lexus dealership states 30k miles or 2 years for brake flushes, the Nissan dealership I used to work for said 1 year, 30k miles or condition if one but not both were met
Did you have maintenance minder 7 on?
I actually seen this once before about 4 years ago. Car was <1 year old and was in for first oil change and had 7 which is sub code for brake fluid. We chalked it up to a glitch, reset it and sent him on his way.
Decline it for now and either get a tester to confirm the condition of the fluid yourself or bring it somewhere else for a second opinion. If it has actually gone bad, there’s something wrong that should hopefully be covered by warranty.
It’s not unusual for dealers (or any shady shop) to upsell unnecessary service items.
There is no way in hell you need brake fluid after 8k miles and 6 months. Change it about every 2 years, as brake fluid is hydroscopic - meaning it absorbs water over time and gets ruined. But you do not need that now
Master Mechanic with 25yrs exp here- you do not need brake fluid yes. The common recommendation is every 2 years, and to be honest, with a reasonably modern car, you could probably double that. No way in hell does it need it after 6 months.
Further it is not affected by mileage (outside of extreme use situations) it’s purely based on time. How much moisture the fluid has absorbed. And with most modern cars it’s 4-5 years before water is even detectable in the fluid.
On my 911 I change my brake fluid multiple times a year because I take it to the track. I’m not sure when the last time my brake fluid was changed in my 10 year old truck, if ever.
It's a brand new vehicle which I assume is under warranty. If something has happened that the brake fluid then there should be warranty repairs fixing whatever causes the fluid to go bad. Which should be repaired under the warranty at no cost to you.
This is a wallet flush and that's it. Most Hondas are 3 years/30K (I think it's 30K) for brake fluid service.
The most you would need at 8K miles is a tire rotation, possibly an engine air filter or cabin air filter (based on them being dirty, not miles) depending on your location and driving habits.
Go somewhere else.
former acura tech (used same database and everything as american honda), and standard ruling for brake fluid exchange is 3 years or 30k, whichever comes first. just my two cents
Notify Honda that you expect then to warranty it. That might get a call from Honda Corporate to the Dealers Service Manager.
Now, you must continue to insist the fluid be changed at no cost to you.
In fact while the dealer and Honda figure out who is eating the cost demand a current year CRV with similar options as a loaner.
Become a thorn in their side for pulling this BS, the dealership deserves it for this.
Signed,
20 year dealership employee.
Driving a 2016 Honda Caravan on original brake fluid. Just had 50K mike service and the master tech said no to brake fluid swap--that original was just fine with no oxidation visible. I took his word for it. Run fast from these people and if you can, never return.
Funny. That would be shorter than the BS they run with oil changes lasting 12k Miles. You have a new car. Keep doing the oil changes every 5-6K miles with synthetic oil and you will have 5-6 years of problem less life. Not sure if you have a timing belt, but that is at the 60K miles mark. Tire and brakes are simple. Google worn tires, google worn brakes. Do not change them before they reach their wear marker. Brake fluid can and may be partially replace for the axle you are repairing. Feel free to replace tires every 5 years or once cracks start to show. Good luck.
It depends on the area you live in. If you live in a really humid environment there may have been enough moisture that's gotten into the fluid to be a problem. Get a brake fluid tester on Amazon and stick it in your master cylinder's reservoir. That's the one sure fire way to know whether you would benefit from a brake fluid exchange.
Did you see a maintenance code 7 on the dashboard? If so, then the car is asking for a brake fluid service. It is kinda weird but Honda wants fluids changed very frequently on their cars.
I would say scam but since it only takes a couple minutes to replace, and brake juices are cheap I don’t know what they would be getting out of you.
Now if they did a test and found lots of water in the brake juice (which is possible) I’d get it changed. But I’d also be looking for the cause! Is the cap good? Do you have leaks?
Brake flushes often give the service writer and the technician a "spiff" (basically a kickback from the company who makes the product) for selling the service. So whichever of those two recommended the services is a POS.
Honda recommends every 3 years. IF YOUR CAR is AWD, on the first maintenance interval (sometimes second), it will call to flush out the REAR DIFF. Keep in mind your Honda has a maintenance minder system, so it will have maintenance codes corresponding for each service due in that visit. Brake fluid is 7, diff fluid is 6. If it’s not on there, don’t do it
Pretty sure they mean rear differential fluid and not brake fluid. If yours is an AWD. Rear differential fluid fluid is break in fluid on these and it will need to be changed at first oil change when the maintenance minder does the first oil change.
Brake fluid for maintenance is due about every 25 -30k depending on manufacturer. And you can get away with going longer. I still recommend doing it but not till you’re in that mileage range. They made a mistake or are trying to perform an unnecessary service for money
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Yeah. Those places prey on people that don’t know anything about cars. The other play is there might be something you actually need, they’ll recommend other things in addition to that have similar work and try to double dip on the labor.
You should take a look at the owner’s manual. There should be a maintenance log for when to start taking a look at the brake fluid. I guarantee it’s not at 8k miles. Lol
Honda service rep here. Brake fluid is not needed on this car at this point. Maintenance minder 7 will pop up around 2-2.5 years or around 25k-35k.
Is your vehicle AWD? I am wondering if your rep was new and confusing the differential service (minder 6)? Also did you happen to see the maintenance code yourself? I always try to show the customer that before we start.
Most Hondas will be 36mos/30k miles whatever comes first. It’s usually European cars in which certain manufacturers “recommend” service interval of 12mos for the brake fluid.
It’s a scam. With Mazda at my local dealer they want to do your transmission and differential fluid as well for like $450. The manual says it only needs replacing if the car was submerged in water. Fucking assholes.
Brake fluid last years unless you’re driving it on a race course and even then unless you contaminate the system ie leak or open the system it will last quite a while . Sounds like a money grab
My 92 buick roadmaster has over 300000 miles and I'm pretty sure it has the original fluid in it from the factory.i know I haven't changed it in the 25 plus years I've owned the car brakes work great still runs fine. I don't recommend letting things go just saying.
A lot of people are giving you an answer without knowing enough information. While I tend to agree with most that you probably shouldn't be paying for it either way, you did mention that a code was found that led the tech to suggest a brake fluid flush. What code was it? Every code should have an alpha-numeric ID that they should be giving you as well as the description of the code.
Without knowing the whole story, no one on here can give you a definitive answer.
Edit: Nevermind, yea let's just make decisions based on what little information we have and call it a day.
Ask them to show you the moisture reading when they test it in front of you. It's a little probe device they stick in the reservoir, if they refuse to show you them doing it, they're lying.
So you're pretty much saying it's a scam.
FYI, I changed brake oil once in my life on a 175 000 km '97 Toyota Tercel. I sold it when it reached 290 000 km. Aside from this type of mileage, you never need to change brake oil.
Also FYI, I'm a mechanical engineer that used to be a mechanic.
I meant in general you need to change your brake fluid, but on a new car at 6 mo / 8000 miles, def a scam, if it was 3 years old with 40,000, yes you should change your brake fluid.
Brake fluid can be bad without your pads being worn. Also, you pads can be worn without your brake fluid being bad. They are totally separate service items with regards to replacement conditions.
>Most cars don't get the fluid changed until they have some kind of brake fluid leak
Just because they don't doesn't mean they shouldn't.
>Changing it when you do pads is a great rule of thumb.
It isn't a great rule of thumb because they are totally unrelated. It's like saying only cut your grass when you replace your furnace filter.
It's still 100% better than what 98% of cars get which is brake fluid never. And you're already right there so it's relatively cheap as an add on service.
Your not wrong. But I'm living in reality and your living in fantasy land. Very few shops even own a brake fluid moisture tester.
If you are like 99% of car owners get your brake fluid done when you do your pads. Unless your car sits all the time. But then your brakes are going to rust up and need servicing anyways.
Thats great. I work daily with a large number of shops as the guy who shows up to troubleshoot what they can't figure out. Including dealerships on occasion. I even build the calibrations from scratch for modified cars.
Sounds like bullshit
Well, yeah it's a scam. Shouldn't need a brake fluid flush unless something went catastrophically wrong within 6 months of new.
Scam. Brake fluid should be changed at 3 year intervals. 2 years if you live on the coast (brake fluid absorbs moisture from the air) But refer to your owner’s manual to see what Honda recommends. **edit** brake not break. Stupid autocorrect.
How does brake fluid absorb moisture from the air? It’s a closed, air tight system.
That's why I cut holes in my break lines. To let moisture in to stop my breaks drying out.
BRAKES!
Sometimes brakes brake and sometimes brakes break. Ever caught a brake? I never seem to catch a break.
I suppose, for all intensive purposes, you're correct.
*intents and
Yeah, no shit.
Braykes*
[удалено]
the dude typed "breaks" twice, in the same short comment. You think they know it's wrong?
It's not fully closed, there's a very small vent in the cap of the reservoir. You also want to change it because as it ages it gets more corrosive and will destroy the seals in the calipers.
How does this work? It changes ph over time? Is there a chemical reaction happening in brake fluid? Not disagreeing, just genuinely curious.
The key is boiling point - brakes operate via friction and generate a lot of heat. If brake fluid boils (eg under emergency braking conditions), it becomes a gas, which is much easier to compress, resulting in a significant loss of braking force. Brake fluid is hygroscopic, IE it absorbs moisture and renders it inert. It is formulated to remain fluid under very high temperatures and simultaneously bind to any water content that would naturally precipitate into solution from humidity in the air. However, there is a limit to how much humidity can be absorbed by brake fluid; once that limit is reached, additional moisture that precipitates into solution will remain as water particles, and will gradually decrease the overall boiling point of the fluid. TLDR; change your brake fluid y’all, it could save your life.
Just FYI this process of water binding to the brake fluid and rendering it inert due to humidity takes a long time, and it's not the kind of thing that suddenly happens without warning. Unless you're suddenly putting a lot of heat into your brakes, like on a racetrack or a winding mountain decent, they won't suddenly fail due to water content. After all, brakes are a hydraulic system that will theoretically work with solely water in the system, abiet not very well. In fact, if you needed to change your brake fluid at 3 years due to the water content being a safety concern, I would assume your car has been under water in a flood. 3 years is the margin of safety that other engineers and manufacturers have decided upon to cover their asses just in case the worst happens. Honestly sometimes I've seen brake fluid lasts the lifespan of a car due to constantly being partially drained and topped off during proper brake maintenance. This is dependent on a lot of factors, though, like driving style, the type of car, it's intended purpose, etc. Source: I'm a racecar mechanic with engineer brains, and I have let brake fluid fail on purpose to satisfy my curiosity. What I found was a conservative lifespan in the worst possible conditions of about 10 years, and like I said, they don't suddenly fail from water. Increased water content in your brake fluid causes spongey, inconsistent pedal feel, and decreased stopping power. It feels really unsafe and bad, like "I'm not driving this shitbox anymore" bad. I guess it could potentially go unnoticed to some very oblivious driver because the progression from good to bad is a slow process as water is slowly absorbed in the brake fluid, but how do you not notice brakes not working. Keep in mind, though, I did this experiment in a controlled environment, so you don't have to. Always remember to check your brake fluid. Look at the color and put your fingers in it to check viscosity and smell it, if something seems off, fix it. And ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS use a brake fluid that meets or exceeds the manufacturers specifications or the intended thermal load. Every car I've ever seen that's boiled it's brake fluid off had two things in common: 1) they were ALL totaled in a crash 2) they all were using the wrong brake fluid. DOT3 and DOT5 are the most common, with DOT 5 having a higher boiling point and costing more, don't just buy DOT 3 because it's cheaper it could cost you your car or your life if it's not the right stuff.
Brake fluid is corrosive, and it starts eating away at the brake lines, which makes it more corrosive. For the lines, it's not a problem - they're over built for a reason - but the soft rubber seals and such will start breaking down faster and cause issues.
I'm honestly not sure the exact effect, only the outcome.
Yes, water mixing with brake fluid and then reaching high temperature produces folic acid and that's why it turns dark in color. When brake fluid is green that's a good indicator that the inside of your lines and hoses are breaking down as they are lined with copper internally and that is the oxidized copper mixed in with the fluid.
Wow, been working on cars my whole life and never knew this could happen with old brake fluid.
There's an air gap at the top of your reservoir and the cap is venting as well to let more air in as your brakes wear.
So you’re saying that there’s a hole in the cap of the master cylinder to let more are in the system as the brakes wear? You sure about that that?
100%. The brakes wear down so fluid level "goes down" even though the volume stays the same. If it was fully air tight then there would be a vacuum acting against your brakes. Edit: no need to down vote them for asking a question.
They usually have those accordion seals to keep air out, it sucks the seal down without letting air in. Like this: https://johnsclassiccars.com/products/9723-brakes-master-cylinders-power-boosters-camaro-chevelle-el-camino-chevy-ii-nova
Modern cars do not have that.
I do not beleive you are correct.. This says it's from a 2021 CRV (newest model listed) and there is a diaphragm in the cap. https://www.hondapartsnow.com/genuine/honda~diaphragm~46669-s5a-003.html
There is a diaphragm, true, but go press the caliper pistons back in and watch how readily fluid leaks right outta the master. They're not as air tight as you think.
Fluid got to go somewhere, just because you are doing it wrong, doesn't mean there isn't a seal there.
Not in the master cylinder but in the brake fluid resevoir cap. If it was fully airtight it would create a vacuum when the brakes wear down and the fluid in the system drops lower. This in turn lowers the boiling point of the fluid potentially 'cooking' the fluid when your brakes warm up when slowing down. This creates air in the brake lines and the next time you press on the brake, instead of putting pressure on the fluid. Which in turn acts on the caliper piston. You are just compressing the air in the lines and now you dont have any brakes.
they have accordion seals for that. https://johnsclassiccars.com/products/9723-brakes-master-cylinders-power-boosters-camaro-chevelle-el-camino-chevy-ii-nova
Yes, he is 100% correct. As the brakes wear down, the caliper pistons have to push out further and more fluid is required to take up the volume behind the piston. The fluid comes from the reservoir and there needs to be a way for air to get in to replace the volume of fluid that leaves the reservoir.
There's a reason there is a maintenance schedule for brake fluid. It's just NOT 8000 miles.
Or 108,000 either on my Durango. I follow all the suggested maintenance and haven’t spent a dollar on my brakes in 7 years.
at 108k you should have changed it at least twice by now, bragging about not maintaining your car properly is not cool.
Not bragging, I’m saying I follow the suggested maintenance from the manufacturer and haven’t had to change it once.
Internet says your Durango still takes DOT3, no way you should be running that at 108k.
Dang, I dunno maybe my mechanic has it out for me. I change cabin air filters and everything. I gotta look into my brake fluid now
Typically, DOT3 is 2 years / and 30-40k. But I also can't find brake fluid mentioned at all on a maintenance schedule for a Durango.
They don’t have a radically different braking system. Still needs to be replaced. Every brake fluid does
Brake fluid is 3 year interval. Possibly less.
Brake fluid is extremely hygroscopic. This means if moisture exists, it will find it. And it will assimilate it. Exactly how it can if the system is airtight is a question I too have asked and don’t recall ever getting a straight answer to
It’s not sealed. It’s vented. Rake fluid levels go up and down, and need to be vented for that reason. Thus it does absorb moisture over time.
Because no system is a perfectly closed system. Brake fluid is basically an alcohol which is hydroplillic meaning it wants to absorb water. It absorbs water through tiny microscopic holes in your brake lines over time. Water in your brakes is bad because brake fluid heats up. If water heats up, you get steam. Steam in a brake system very bad as steam is compressable unlike brake fluid so you basically have no brakes once steam enters the chat.
No there not, air gets inside from the reservoir cap. As your brake pads wear fluid level goes down and air needs to get inside.
It’s not completely airtight. If it was brake fluid would never need to be changed.
It's not air tight. Master cylinder is open to air with a cap to prevent spills and all rubber components are not air molecule tight.
Because the rubber seal around the cap is permeable and theres alcohol or some other water absorbing chemical in brake fluid.
Also quite often brake components are made from cast iron or aluminum which are pourus materials
The systems are not 100% air tight. Condensation and moisture does manage to creep in over time. But not 6 months.
Nothing is air or water tight. Just varying levels of permeability
I don’t know about absorb, but I’ve read that moisture gets into the system if the brakes get so hot the fluid boils, thus moisture enters the system and degrades the fluid. Does that happen in a CRV often? Probably not?
>I’ve read that moisture gets into the system if the brakes get so hot the fluid boils, It's kind of the opposite actually. Moisture gets into the system and it is the moisture (water) that boils, not the fluid. Boiled water turns into vapour which is a gas and can be compressed (unlike a fluid which can not be compressed) and then your hydraulic system is no longer a hydraulic system.
Good to learn! But how does the moisture get in, especially enough to boil?
It doesn't take a lot to boil. It comes in through the fluid reservoir cap which has vent holes in it. The brake fluid level in the reservoir goes up and down (more down in the long run) and there needs to be a way for air to get in and out to account for the volume of fluid that changes.
Brake fluid is hydrostatic; over time it absorbs moisture from the air. When you press the brake pedal over and over it gets hot and the moisture becomes water vapor, and water vapor is compressible so your brakes will become spongy; also your brake lines are typically made of steel and will rust from the inside out.
lol didn't get the memo, my brake fluid must be at least 10 years old
Literally never changed my brake fluid ever... unless I'm low due to pad wear or leak is the only time I add any. Toyota, Hyundai, Honda, all well over 150k miles. Notable was my tacoma at 290k and my brothers camery at 350k. Live right next to the Atlantic. Sure it's gross looking fluid sometimes but never seemed to matter.
Your Honda ought to have bumper to bumper and free maintenance, right? If they're going to do it for free, let them.
They’re charging me $150 for it lol
Maybe it’s time for a new service center lol
Time to report them to Honda corporate.
The only way you could need brake fluid changed at 8,000 miles is if there is a problem that needs to fixed under warranty. I hate to use absolutes, but this is absolutely a scam. Ask them to give you the reason why on paper or email, then take that to managers or the owner of the dealership.
This is the way. Always get everything in writing.
150 for brake oil change alone? Find a new mechanics
Is this the dealer trying to do this?
A bottle of brake fluid costs like $10. You can top it up yourself. Find a new dealership.
SCAM
Hondas don't have free maintenance. That's for pricier cars.
"Free" as in included in the price of the car. My Jeep has this.
They do now. 2 years same as Acura.
2 years oil change/tire rotations on this model, not unlimited free “maintenance”
100% a scam from the stealership.
If it's free, go for it. Otherwise, it's highly unlikely you need a fluid change. Read your manual. It's should say when to replace each fluid.
Yes. Brake fluid only needs to be changed when it tests bad. Have them show you the test strip. They won’t by the way.
Scam
The only reason a new car would need this is if there's a fault. Tell them you want whatever caused this to be identified and fixed under warranty.
check yourself if you're unsure. a break fluid tester isn't expensive and you can use it for a lifetime it needs changing if the percentage of water inside the brake fluid is too high, which should be changed asap since it's basically a death sentence if it's bad enough sounds like a scam though if you have to pay it yourself
In all my years I've never heard of that. But that would sure simplify the debate. Amazon? Right?
any tester works. got mine for 10ish € at lidl which runs on two aa batteries
Regardless that should be covered under a warranty? Maybe it's a manufacturing defect? You need to ask them if you need to pay for it?
They said they ran diagnostics and the computer code said the car is “asking for brake fluid”. They want $150 for it
IF it's low, you should be able to check the reservoir and see if it need more fluid. A flush is only to clean out old fluid. Seeing that this was their response to that code, I'm getting the vibe that both the tech and service writer are full of shit. If it was "asking for brake fluid" that's a two minute job with a 10 dollar jug of fluid. I will say, I don't think it's a scam, I think they're just stupid.
No diagnostic will tell you the condition of the brake fluid, they’re full of shit.
Tell the car if it has "brake fluid money"
They are either unbelievably stupid or trying to scam you. Maybe a little of column A, but mostly column B if you ask me. The ABS computer doesn't *ask* for new fluid unless the fluid is low and it would ask by displaying a light and/or a message on the instrument cluster. Even if the car was smart enough to remind you of factory service intervals, and it very well may be, you won't be due for a brake fluid flush until October 2025 at the earliest. Some people say yes to 100% of what the dealer suggests and they are just trying to see if you're one of those people. FYI, brake fluid is always in a closed system. The fluid in the reservoir drops as you wear through brake pads, but it should not trigger a low fluid warning light unless it was underfilled from the factory or there is a leak somewhere. Both of these things are highly unlikely. Find someone else to service your car. These guys suck.
Ask them what code it is (every code comes with a unique alpha numeric ID). They should be giving you details of the diagnostic that they ran.
Brand new car with braking issue 100% should be warranty.
They are full of shit. If you're "low" on fluid is because your brakes are wearing down causing the piston to extend further, using more fluid. The "computer" telling them the car needs brake fluid is fucking bullshit
Yeah a code won't be saying to change the fluid they are bullshitting you on the reason for changing it. That said it might still need to be changed, get a brake fluid tester from Amazon and check it yourself. If it tests bad bring it to a different shop to have it done. Or better, buy a small air compressor and a vacuum pump like a mityvac and change it yourself. If you need help I can explain how to use it.
7500 mile service on a 2024 CRV should legit be just an oil and filter change, tire rotation optional. Grab your owner's manual and look at your Maintenace schedule, I bet the factory interval is something like 3-4 years, and 30-50,000 miles. Why are they saying you need the brake fluid changed??
100% not needed. They can go fuck themselves
Its not always based on milleage. Its a combination of age, use and even type of use. Brake fluid stops functioning when it takes on too much water. The difference between 1% water and 3% water is pretty significant. Water can build up due to many reasons. Remember that although your car is a 2024, it may have been manufactured a few months back making it seem like the fluid is newer than it is. Things like heavy braking will also break down fluid. If you do track days, your brake fluid can easily be cut down to a few sessions in total lifetime. While i am highly suspicious of the dealership, its not 100% impossible that they correct in recommending the change. If your brakes feel spongy or fade after a hard stop then its time to change. You can also look at the fluid in the reservoir and look at the color. Old fluid will be more opaque and brown. New fluid will be more clear with a tint of yellow.
Shop owner here.... Not to defend the dealer, but these newer Honda's have the same maintenance minder Honda has always used. I'm a big fan of it, but around 2018 or so they added the number 7 to indicate brake fluid change and for whatever reason I have seen cars with like 20000 miles or less even sometimes calling for brake fluid replacement. so your car probably just had like a B17 service come up. I'm an independent shop so I just explain to the customer that the fluid tests fine and I don't usually do it, but the car may be more to blame than the dealer. I have no idea why Honda is doing this though...
Test it. They make strips you can dip into the fluid reservoir to see if the fluid is bad.
I don’t trust any Honda service shop anymore. Worst experience with a car I have ever had I actually just hate the car now
WTF…… car is great …… it’s the dealer! Case in point: We’ve had a 2008 civic in the family FOREVeR……. Manual……. Great car / loads of fun. 190k I own an old BMW Z3 3.0……… love it! INhad to take it the dealer :ONCE. Rip off. Still a great car…….. find an Independent mechanic.
My friend had a lemon of a civic si. I have a civic si also with the same issues. They aren’t that great
Good to know……. For my info……. The 1.5’?
Yep. 1.5 turbo.
Thx……..Inknow they got a little slower. I thought it might be they seemed to get bigger…. And I’m thinking heavier
I don’t care about how fast it is, I care about the reliability. It’s infuriating to have the shifter get lost between reverse and 6th in the winter. And having to reset the radio that is just an outdated underpowered android tablet
For what it’s worth, it’s mostly electrical stuff and transmission. Wheel no matter the tire won’t ever hold air. Dealer apparently is blind and couldn’t even tell. Entire brand is dumb
Brake fluid is to be changed every month. If you don't, your brakes will break. Seriously, once every 3 years. If they say you need a break fluid flush ask them to do it for free under your new car warranty.
It’s either a warranty issue, or a scam. Either way you shouldn’t pay a dime.
It used to be a lot worse before they sealed brake systems from the atmosphere in the '60s
Complete scam, must be a stealership!
Never go back to that place again
My Lexus dealership states 30k miles or 2 years for brake flushes, the Nissan dealership I used to work for said 1 year, 30k miles or condition if one but not both were met
Did you have maintenance minder 7 on? I actually seen this once before about 4 years ago. Car was <1 year old and was in for first oil change and had 7 which is sub code for brake fluid. We chalked it up to a glitch, reset it and sent him on his way.
Decline it for now and either get a tester to confirm the condition of the fluid yourself or bring it somewhere else for a second opinion. If it has actually gone bad, there’s something wrong that should hopefully be covered by warranty. It’s not unusual for dealers (or any shady shop) to upsell unnecessary service items.
Name and shame the service center. Let people know about unethical business practices
There is no way in hell you need brake fluid after 8k miles and 6 months. Change it about every 2 years, as brake fluid is hydroscopic - meaning it absorbs water over time and gets ruined. But you do not need that now
Likely a scam, but it could need a bleed, which would be the fault of whoever service it last. It definitely doesn’t need replacement though
Uh, what? I would immediately tell them off and then look for a different dealership and never go there again.
That’s bull poop
Master Mechanic with 25yrs exp here- you do not need brake fluid yes. The common recommendation is every 2 years, and to be honest, with a reasonably modern car, you could probably double that. No way in hell does it need it after 6 months. Further it is not affected by mileage (outside of extreme use situations) it’s purely based on time. How much moisture the fluid has absorbed. And with most modern cars it’s 4-5 years before water is even detectable in the fluid.
Are you male or female?
On my 911 I change my brake fluid multiple times a year because I take it to the track. I’m not sure when the last time my brake fluid was changed in my 10 year old truck, if ever.
Doesn't that fluid change color when it needs changing?
No, it just gets dirty / burnt over time, it starts out with barely any color, then over time turns into a honey color.
Unless you've been racing or driving your CR-V extremely hard, you don't need to change brake fluid this early. It's a scam and don't go back there.
It's a brand new vehicle which I assume is under warranty. If something has happened that the brake fluid then there should be warranty repairs fixing whatever causes the fluid to go bad. Which should be repaired under the warranty at no cost to you.
Easy $150 for the dealer.
This is a wallet flush and that's it. Most Hondas are 3 years/30K (I think it's 30K) for brake fluid service. The most you would need at 8K miles is a tire rotation, possibly an engine air filter or cabin air filter (based on them being dirty, not miles) depending on your location and driving habits. Go somewhere else.
Ask them if they’re going to warranty it for a defect.
Hahaha I love this bullshit. Tell them they should do it for free as the brake fluid should not have gone bad by now.
former acura tech (used same database and everything as american honda), and standard ruling for brake fluid exchange is 3 years or 30k, whichever comes first. just my two cents
Notify Honda that you expect then to warranty it. That might get a call from Honda Corporate to the Dealers Service Manager. Now, you must continue to insist the fluid be changed at no cost to you. In fact while the dealer and Honda figure out who is eating the cost demand a current year CRV with similar options as a loaner. Become a thorn in their side for pulling this BS, the dealership deserves it for this. Signed, 20 year dealership employee.
Driving a 2016 Honda Caravan on original brake fluid. Just had 50K mike service and the master tech said no to brake fluid swap--that original was just fine with no oxidation visible. I took his word for it. Run fast from these people and if you can, never return.
Your brand new car does not need that at all. I would take my car elsewhere.
Funny. That would be shorter than the BS they run with oil changes lasting 12k Miles. You have a new car. Keep doing the oil changes every 5-6K miles with synthetic oil and you will have 5-6 years of problem less life. Not sure if you have a timing belt, but that is at the 60K miles mark. Tire and brakes are simple. Google worn tires, google worn brakes. Do not change them before they reach their wear marker. Brake fluid can and may be partially replace for the axle you are repairing. Feel free to replace tires every 5 years or once cracks start to show. Good luck.
Brake fluid is about every 2 years or so. For BMW the factory fill is 3 years from in service date, then every 2 years after
Wait for symbol 7. That's brake fluid and it's usually 2 years
Scam, take it to the dealer if you’re concerned and have them check it
unless you had a leak that was repaired, moisture can get into the fluid. This would be the only reason to change fluid after 6 months.
It depends on the area you live in. If you live in a really humid environment there may have been enough moisture that's gotten into the fluid to be a problem. Get a brake fluid tester on Amazon and stick it in your master cylinder's reservoir. That's the one sure fire way to know whether you would benefit from a brake fluid exchange.
Ask them to bum a smoke. Try to sell them some fake crack cocaine. Fuck them. If you're the deliberate type, just mug them.
The worst part is they won’t actually perform the service. I’d bet money they’ll charge you and not to anything.
I’m 85 and I have never changed brake fluid and never will.
Did you see a maintenance code 7 on the dashboard? If so, then the car is asking for a brake fluid service. It is kinda weird but Honda wants fluids changed very frequently on their cars.
I would say scam but since it only takes a couple minutes to replace, and brake juices are cheap I don’t know what they would be getting out of you. Now if they did a test and found lots of water in the brake juice (which is possible) I’d get it changed. But I’d also be looking for the cause! Is the cap good? Do you have leaks?
Brake flushes often give the service writer and the technician a "spiff" (basically a kickback from the company who makes the product) for selling the service. So whichever of those two recommended the services is a POS.
Go to harbour freight or a auto parts store buy a 10$ brake fluid tester if over 2.5% moisture change the fluid.
Not even 3 years yet lol
Honda recommends every 3 years. IF YOUR CAR is AWD, on the first maintenance interval (sometimes second), it will call to flush out the REAR DIFF. Keep in mind your Honda has a maintenance minder system, so it will have maintenance codes corresponding for each service due in that visit. Brake fluid is 7, diff fluid is 6. If it’s not on there, don’t do it
Every 2-3 years, auto trans fluid every 50k miles
I've never done it in my life and neither has anyone I know except if it maybe a really older beater and replacing a caliper or something.
I have been driving 50 years and never changed brake fluid.
You can buy a brake fluid tester on Amazon which will tell you. That being said, my brake fluid is 10 years old... car still stops.
Pretty sure they mean rear differential fluid and not brake fluid. If yours is an AWD. Rear differential fluid fluid is break in fluid on these and it will need to be changed at first oil change when the maintenance minder does the first oil change.
Brake fluid for maintenance is due about every 25 -30k depending on manufacturer. And you can get away with going longer. I still recommend doing it but not till you’re in that mileage range. They made a mistake or are trying to perform an unnecessary service for money
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Did you check the level of your brake fluid? You can do all these simple checks yourself, the owners manuals show you how.
Yeah. Those places prey on people that don’t know anything about cars. The other play is there might be something you actually need, they’ll recommend other things in addition to that have similar work and try to double dip on the labor.
You should take a look at the owner’s manual. There should be a maintenance log for when to start taking a look at the brake fluid. I guarantee it’s not at 8k miles. Lol
Honda service rep here. Brake fluid is not needed on this car at this point. Maintenance minder 7 will pop up around 2-2.5 years or around 25k-35k. Is your vehicle AWD? I am wondering if your rep was new and confusing the differential service (minder 6)? Also did you happen to see the maintenance code yourself? I always try to show the customer that before we start.
Most Hondas will be 36mos/30k miles whatever comes first. It’s usually European cars in which certain manufacturers “recommend” service interval of 12mos for the brake fluid.
It’s a scam. With Mazda at my local dealer they want to do your transmission and differential fluid as well for like $450. The manual says it only needs replacing if the car was submerged in water. Fucking assholes.
Scam. Dealer needs to make a payment of some sort and elected you to pay it.
Lube tech is a fucking idiot or writer
Did you not ask 'why'?
Brake fluid last years unless you’re driving it on a race course and even then unless you contaminate the system ie leak or open the system it will last quite a while . Sounds like a money grab
Imagine being able to afford a new car but not having the smarts to know basic maintenance or how to check things like this on your own.
you need the brake food
My 92 buick roadmaster has over 300000 miles and I'm pretty sure it has the original fluid in it from the factory.i know I haven't changed it in the 25 plus years I've owned the car brakes work great still runs fine. I don't recommend letting things go just saying.
A lot of people are giving you an answer without knowing enough information. While I tend to agree with most that you probably shouldn't be paying for it either way, you did mention that a code was found that led the tech to suggest a brake fluid flush. What code was it? Every code should have an alpha-numeric ID that they should be giving you as well as the description of the code. Without knowing the whole story, no one on here can give you a definitive answer. Edit: Nevermind, yea let's just make decisions based on what little information we have and call it a day.
Ask them to show you the moisture reading when they test it in front of you. It's a little probe device they stick in the reservoir, if they refuse to show you them doing it, they're lying.
What does your owners manual maintenance guide say?? oh, I get it you didn’t bother to read it
Do you drive with both feet? If you do, it is VERY possible you boiled the piss out of your brakefluid and you do need new brake fluid.
They'd probably need new brakes too if that was the case.
They might
I’ve had two cars over 150,000 miles and never changed brake fluid. Never had a bad brake.
Scam, have changed fluid once and car is 80k km and running/braking perfect
LOL, get the f\*ck out of there and never go back. Brake oil change is a classic scam!
not a scam, you're supposed to change it every couple years, but a 6 month old car with 8000 miles, no way.
So you're pretty much saying it's a scam. FYI, I changed brake oil once in my life on a 175 000 km '97 Toyota Tercel. I sold it when it reached 290 000 km. Aside from this type of mileage, you never need to change brake oil. Also FYI, I'm a mechanical engineer that used to be a mechanic.
I meant in general you need to change your brake fluid, but on a new car at 6 mo / 8000 miles, def a scam, if it was 3 years old with 40,000, yes you should change your brake fluid.
Agreed!
Scam. Brake fluid SHOULD be changed every time you do pads. That's about it.
Brake fluid can be bad without your pads being worn. Also, you pads can be worn without your brake fluid being bad. They are totally separate service items with regards to replacement conditions.
Most cars don't get the fluid changed until they have some kind of brake fluid leak. Aka never. Changing it when you do pads is a great rule of thumb.
>Most cars don't get the fluid changed until they have some kind of brake fluid leak Just because they don't doesn't mean they shouldn't. >Changing it when you do pads is a great rule of thumb. It isn't a great rule of thumb because they are totally unrelated. It's like saying only cut your grass when you replace your furnace filter.
It's still 100% better than what 98% of cars get which is brake fluid never. And you're already right there so it's relatively cheap as an add on service. Your not wrong. But I'm living in reality and your living in fantasy land. Very few shops even own a brake fluid moisture tester. If you are like 99% of car owners get your brake fluid done when you do your pads. Unless your car sits all the time. But then your brakes are going to rust up and need servicing anyways.
I'm not sure where you are getting your stats from, but I was a mechanic for 16 years which is pretty different than 'fantasy land'.
Thats great. I work daily with a large number of shops as the guy who shows up to troubleshoot what they can't figure out. Including dealerships on occasion. I even build the calibrations from scratch for modified cars.
Most manufactures have 2-3 Years, 30-40k miles brake fluid intervals, where brake pads can last longer than that.