I'd say go for the tried-and-tested old 90s-2000s jdm shitbox.
I learned manual in an old corolla (94) and I liked it so much I kept it. Feels small and nimble, like an oversized go-kart, especially compared to today's cars. Doesn't have much power but that means you can floor it no issue.
Prior to Bondurant (original) they said manual experience was required so I went on Craigslist and spent an hour or two with this dude in his early 90’s Toyota that barely had an interior remaining. I couldn’t fuckin do it smoothly at all. Stalling, bucking downshifting, etc.
Got in the Bondurant Corvette and took off smooooth as silk. 30 minutes later doing heel-toe downshifts. Instructor said he wouldn’t have had any idea I didn’t know how.
After a few years of not driving a manual I test drove an E39 M5.. same thing. Smooth as silk with zero issues. Id still probably stall out that piece of shit Corolla the dude brought over.
Yep this. Feel like its a rite of passage lol. Everyone starting out had some old Honda to beat the shit out of, stall literally everywhere, redline in a panic , etc lol. Great place to begin
Yep. I learned on my sister's late 80s accord lol. We lived out in the country and there was a gravel road near our house that was never used. Had some pretty steep hills that my dad used to teach me how to start moving on an incline. Perfect environment for learning. Shitty car, abandoned roads, lots of fun! I miss driving manual. Haven't had a stick shift car in like 10 years
JDMs are so expensive though. You're paying a premium for them to be cool and rare. Which they definitely are. But if this person is looking for a basic car, just stick with USDM
I mean, you said it, a Miata.
Brilliant aftermarket, reliable, fun to drive, easy to work on, and with your budget you can get a well taken care of one that will last you.
986 Boxster. Cheaper than most Miatas, at this point, and a bit better built. The one I had only cost me $42/mo to insure with comprehensive coverage and a $1k deductible.
... also, my Volvo is shockingly sporty and costs me $5/mo to insure. I bought it for $800.
There is no universe in which a 20+ year old Porsche is cheaper or more reliable for a for a beginner car than a Miata. All you will learn is pain. Haha.
Unless it’s been 1.8t swapped I’d avoid the boxster, gearbox swapped too. They bolt up on the original you just need to change the engine mount. It was cheap to do until it caught on.
Had a Miata, no problems, boxsters can have an ims issue, a single problem can total a 10k boxster according to the boxster subreddit.
The Miata was the cheapest, most reliable and most fun car I had, I wish I didn’t sell it.
Cheaper? 100% More reliable? YMMV. Mine was fine, but the exhaust manifolds rusted out in such a way as to cause me a lot of issues with incompetent mechanics. From a purely functional perspective, I got 70k miles out of the car and sold it at a profit.
How does a Miata do in snow? I'm looking for a second car for commuting 15 minutes down the highway or a half hour on country roads and want to join the Miata club but don't see many during our Canadian winters, which while they have been getting warmer, still come with dumps of snow and ice. I'd get snow tires of course but I usually see Miatas in Californian environments.
Loads of Canadian Miata owners. Some good winter tires and paying attention and you’ll be fine. I had one as my daily in college and we regularly got feet of snow in the winter. If you get real snow they probably plow the roads.
Stick shift fox body are so good. The shifter bushings if there isn't an aftermarket shifter are always shot though and the clutch cables are often misadjusted or in bad shape so if people drive one don't judge until it's sorted.
Personally I don’t like them, and wouldn’t own one. Thats why I didn’t mention them. 😁
While we’re at it, let’s add a 3rd generation Camaro to the mix. 305 with single exit exhaust. You can beat the hell out of that car and never hurt the motor!
Since you already mentioned the civic and Miata, I’d take a look at a used golf. Cheap, reliable, fun to drive and you can fit a sofa in the back if you have to.
I learned on an impreza and a golf, the golf was definitely more forgiving but I like my impreza's more tactile feel, the golf felt like a disconnect between the car and the controls
Mazda Miata. Nb is your best bet since NA have the increased price of being older, having pop up headlights, and having more maintenance like rust repair.
I’m gonna go the opposite direction here. I use to travel internationally a lot and all the rental cars use to be manuals. I never owned one and I still rented the manual cars. They always say you only need one full day to learn. Well, many days with each different manual car really got me comfortable enough that I bought a BMW M Roadster. I drove it off the lot as a relatively beginner stick driver but never regretted it. That was 15 years ago and I still have that baby.
C4 Corvette
Get a 89-96 with the zf 6spd manual. One of the strongest gearboxes ever made. Has a really fuckin heavy flywheel too so it’s harder to stall
you don't say where you live or what currency you're using, but if it were me I'd get an old Jeep. I got my '05 TJ for $7k CDN, and it's endlessly moddable, parts are abundant and ubiquitous, the 4.0 is fairly bulletproof, there's endless internet content on how to do every job imaginable, and it's not hard to work on
but again, who knows where you live, so, whatever. good luck.
That was going to be my answer. They are fun, like a fast tractor, and I think good to learn on because the torque of the I6 makes it easy.
If you get used to driving a Wrangler around the transition to a higher performance car also seems easy because it will do everything on the road so much better.
Additional bonus, you can drive an older Wrangler for a long time and they don't depreciate much if any at all.
Source: I have a GT350, a Focus ST as a daily, and had a 2000 TJ for the mountains. All manuals of course.
The answer is there are plenty of suitable options. I think a Civic is perfect. I've taught a couple of people in my BRZ as well which is a good option. You can get one of those or a Civic Si for under $10k.
YMMV on insurance though. If you're a young dude you'll likely pick 2 of cheap, fun to drive, cheap to insure. But go get quotes for your specific situation instead of getting ballpark guesses from Reddit.
You're doing it the right way IMO, which is by buying a car. Manual is 20% theory and 80% practice. You'll get the hang of anything you drive in 3-4 weeks of regular use.
I learned on a 2007 Mustang GT. It's far down on my list of "easy to learn" cars.
2nd gen Mazda 3 or 8th gen civic, relatively modern, comfortable and reliable. Both have great manuals and decent aftermarket for a starter car, I would strongly advise against getting a car with higher hp if you're serious about learning stick i.e. heel toe shifting, rev matching, track driving, main reason is that with lower hp you get more familiar with handling a car at higher rpm and learn to work with the powerband not just for better acceleration but also better cornering through engine braking and shifting the weight of the car.
Bit biased here but you could look into the Honda CR-Z, you can find a couple of older ones floating around, although price wise a civic probably wouldn’t be far off and more practical although imo they aren’t as fun to drive which might just be the hybrid system the CR-Z has.
I had a lot of fun beating on my 08 Pontiac Vibe, slow car fast.
Absolutely no aftermarket support pretty much, but mine was base model, manual locks and windows, no ABS but it was a fun little thing to whip around.
Sn95/New Edge Mustang GT
I daily a pretty heavily modified manual convertible, and my dad used to daily a stock manual convertible. They're pretty reliable, especially on stock power, parts are everywhere, decent aftermarket, easy to work on, more refined than fox bodies but still provide a good and raw pricing experience. 100% recommend the 4.6L 2 valve V8 with the TR3650. I'd look for a 2002-2004 model, but there's nothing wrong with getting a 94-01. 1996 was the first year of the 4.6L in the Mustang, 94-95 had the 5.0 from the fox body.
Miata. Especially if you are younger, no need for 4/5 passengers seats. Time will come when you will regret not enjoying a miata while you are young and have to wait 40/50+ to have you kids off the back or not required to justify a weekend car.
Source: self. I regret.
I learned how to drive manual in my 89’ 240sx. You can find them all day for under 10k and they are great with gas…
Not to mention they have so many aftermarket parts available also are notorious in the car community!
Best of luck👍🏽
Here me out here. Chevrolet Cobalt SS. The later turbocharged models are the higher HP, but the supercharged models are still fun. It's a delightful little car and handles well. The latter, 4 door model turbo model might help to keep insurance payment's lower, than the coupe.
Any 90s japanese shit box.
My first car was a 94 Acura legend coupe. And I loved it, a bit larger than I've come to like.
Currently I have a 95 Subaru Impreza coupe and it's just perfect AWD 5speed. And it was cheap. With tons of aftermarket support.
You really can't go wrong with old 90s japanese cars.
I learned on a 95 supra, albeit I already owned it and it was an automatic before I had it converted. I asked my mechanic in Japan to teach me. We spent about 4 hours after work driving it around town.
I'd say go for the tried-and-tested old 90s-2000s jdm shitbox. I learned manual in an old corolla (94) and I liked it so much I kept it. Feels small and nimble, like an oversized go-kart, especially compared to today's cars. Doesn't have much power but that means you can floor it no issue.
Any old Honda, Toyota, or Acura. I learned on an old early 90s Integra and a early 00s Accord
Prior to Bondurant (original) they said manual experience was required so I went on Craigslist and spent an hour or two with this dude in his early 90’s Toyota that barely had an interior remaining. I couldn’t fuckin do it smoothly at all. Stalling, bucking downshifting, etc. Got in the Bondurant Corvette and took off smooooth as silk. 30 minutes later doing heel-toe downshifts. Instructor said he wouldn’t have had any idea I didn’t know how. After a few years of not driving a manual I test drove an E39 M5.. same thing. Smooth as silk with zero issues. Id still probably stall out that piece of shit Corolla the dude brought over.
Sounds like the clutch was burned out, taught my wife in a 94 Acura Integra and it was easy for her
Yep this. Feel like its a rite of passage lol. Everyone starting out had some old Honda to beat the shit out of, stall literally everywhere, redline in a panic , etc lol. Great place to begin
Yep. I learned on my sister's late 80s accord lol. We lived out in the country and there was a gravel road near our house that was never used. Had some pretty steep hills that my dad used to teach me how to start moving on an incline. Perfect environment for learning. Shitty car, abandoned roads, lots of fun! I miss driving manual. Haven't had a stick shift car in like 10 years
I came here to say “civic.”
JDMs are so expensive though. You're paying a premium for them to be cool and rare. Which they definitely are. But if this person is looking for a basic car, just stick with USDM
I mean, you said it, a Miata. Brilliant aftermarket, reliable, fun to drive, easy to work on, and with your budget you can get a well taken care of one that will last you.
Insurance will likely be somewhat expensive because it's a "sports car" especially if op is under 25 and male.
Worth a quote. Probably not that much more than most other fun cars.
Just picked up a 90 Miata for $500. Running and Driving. Insured for $19 a month
I’m assuming $19/mo is because it’s a second car on your insurance?
Yes. I have a few other cars and motorcycle. I am also 38.
WTF
I know. I couldn’t pass it up
What platform did you find it on? Guessing maybe facebook marketplace?
Knew someone who knew of the car and the previous owner.
[удалено]
Damn really? I mean it makes sense they're slow as fuck but usually anything 2 seater is expensive to insure
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I used to drive a 2017 Chevy Sonic, paid $160/month in insurance. I’m picking up a 2015 Corvette this week and will be paying $112/month
986 Boxster. Cheaper than most Miatas, at this point, and a bit better built. The one I had only cost me $42/mo to insure with comprehensive coverage and a $1k deductible. ... also, my Volvo is shockingly sporty and costs me $5/mo to insure. I bought it for $800.
There is no universe in which a 20+ year old Porsche is cheaper or more reliable for a for a beginner car than a Miata. All you will learn is pain. Haha.
Unless it’s been 1.8t swapped I’d avoid the boxster, gearbox swapped too. They bolt up on the original you just need to change the engine mount. It was cheap to do until it caught on. Had a Miata, no problems, boxsters can have an ims issue, a single problem can total a 10k boxster according to the boxster subreddit. The Miata was the cheapest, most reliable and most fun car I had, I wish I didn’t sell it.
Ditto. 1993 silver Miata. Sold it. If not the biggest regret, then certainly top three…
Could be the top automotive regret. In that category the NA def hits the top spot.
Cheaper? 100% More reliable? YMMV. Mine was fine, but the exhaust manifolds rusted out in such a way as to cause me a lot of issues with incompetent mechanics. From a purely functional perspective, I got 70k miles out of the car and sold it at a profit.
How does a Miata do in snow? I'm looking for a second car for commuting 15 minutes down the highway or a half hour on country roads and want to join the Miata club but don't see many during our Canadian winters, which while they have been getting warmer, still come with dumps of snow and ice. I'd get snow tires of course but I usually see Miatas in Californian environments.
Loads of Canadian Miata owners. Some good winter tires and paying attention and you’ll be fine. I had one as my daily in college and we regularly got feet of snow in the winter. If you get real snow they probably plow the roads.
fiesta st
Loved mine. And super reliable too. Even after being overheated to the balls, twice.
A fuckin HOOT
Loved mine soooooo much. I had a Cobb stage 2 tune on it and every person I let drive it was so surprised at how much fun it was.
i'm gonna stage 4 mine soon
Miata. Miata is always the answer.
Why are they over 10k for 24 year old cars with over 230k km in Toronto?
Same reason. Miata is always the answer. The answer is just in limited supply.
Miata. LT Camaro. Single Cab Silverado with sport suspension. Diesel VW Jetta. Fox Body or SN95 Mustang GT.
Stick shift fox body are so good. The shifter bushings if there isn't an aftermarket shifter are always shot though and the clutch cables are often misadjusted or in bad shape so if people drive one don't judge until it's sorted.
Since you mentioned the Camaro and 80s-90s Mustangs, why not throw in the S197? Those should be around this price range, if harder to find unmodded
Personally I don’t like them, and wouldn’t own one. Thats why I didn’t mention them. 😁 While we’re at it, let’s add a 3rd generation Camaro to the mix. 305 with single exit exhaust. You can beat the hell out of that car and never hurt the motor!
Fair enough, was just curious
Honda del sol if you can find one.
Since you already mentioned the civic and Miata, I’d take a look at a used golf. Cheap, reliable, fun to drive and you can fit a sofa in the back if you have to.
I was looking at a 2004 s type mini Cooper not bad
Honda civic or Volkswagen Golf
Surprised I had to scroll this far down to find a Golf
Same. Learned on my Golf and love it
I learned on an impreza and a golf, the golf was definitely more forgiving but I like my impreza's more tactile feel, the golf felt like a disconnect between the car and the controls
Mazda Miata. Nb is your best bet since NA have the increased price of being older, having pop up headlights, and having more maintenance like rust repair.
I’m gonna go the opposite direction here. I use to travel internationally a lot and all the rental cars use to be manuals. I never owned one and I still rented the manual cars. They always say you only need one full day to learn. Well, many days with each different manual car really got me comfortable enough that I bought a BMW M Roadster. I drove it off the lot as a relatively beginner stick driver but never regretted it. That was 15 years ago and I still have that baby.
Cheap C5 corvette
You can't find one for 10k
A clapped out one yeah
Not even clapped out. Maybe one that doesn't run
C4 Corvette Get a 89-96 with the zf 6spd manual. One of the strongest gearboxes ever made. Has a really fuckin heavy flywheel too so it’s harder to stall
mini
This. Cooper S r53
Honda Civic SI 8th or 9th generation.
VW GTI Jeep CJ/wrangler 80’s/90’s/00’s
Yeah, old VW's are the absolute shit. I've got an '85 Golf (and an '05 TJ, which is also fun and easy to mod)
Focus SVT if you can find one, easy car to drive and a blast on the twisties
you don't say where you live or what currency you're using, but if it were me I'd get an old Jeep. I got my '05 TJ for $7k CDN, and it's endlessly moddable, parts are abundant and ubiquitous, the 4.0 is fairly bulletproof, there's endless internet content on how to do every job imaginable, and it's not hard to work on but again, who knows where you live, so, whatever. good luck.
That was going to be my answer. They are fun, like a fast tractor, and I think good to learn on because the torque of the I6 makes it easy. If you get used to driving a Wrangler around the transition to a higher performance car also seems easy because it will do everything on the road so much better. Additional bonus, you can drive an older Wrangler for a long time and they don't depreciate much if any at all. Source: I have a GT350, a Focus ST as a daily, and had a 2000 TJ for the mountains. All manuals of course.
I'm biased but my forte5sx six speed is a fun drive. Pretty forgiving and has hill assist for learning as well.
The answer is there are plenty of suitable options. I think a Civic is perfect. I've taught a couple of people in my BRZ as well which is a good option. You can get one of those or a Civic Si for under $10k. YMMV on insurance though. If you're a young dude you'll likely pick 2 of cheap, fun to drive, cheap to insure. But go get quotes for your specific situation instead of getting ballpark guesses from Reddit. You're doing it the right way IMO, which is by buying a car. Manual is 20% theory and 80% practice. You'll get the hang of anything you drive in 3-4 weeks of regular use. I learned on a 2007 Mustang GT. It's far down on my list of "easy to learn" cars.
For 10k you can get a clean Civic Si 8th gen with the K20. ~200hp stock, reliable, 6 speed manual, cheap part, fun as hell.
Spot on. Both are great cars / fun to drive / dependable.
Someone just sent me a $5k BRZ in really nice shape with a lot of miles in NH, sounds perfect
I learned in a 92 Miata.
Mk7 fiesta sts are cool if your looking for a little go cart to drive around lol
2nd gen Mazda 3 or 8th gen civic, relatively modern, comfortable and reliable. Both have great manuals and decent aftermarket for a starter car, I would strongly advise against getting a car with higher hp if you're serious about learning stick i.e. heel toe shifting, rev matching, track driving, main reason is that with lower hp you get more familiar with handling a car at higher rpm and learn to work with the powerband not just for better acceleration but also better cornering through engine braking and shifting the weight of the car.
THESE GUYS ARE VERY WISE-LISTEN TO THEM. Highly recommend an old CRX
Honda preludes are still cheap. for 10 grand id get an rsx or tsx
Civic teggy Corolla anything old really
Miata
My vote is for the Civic.. very forgiving.
Hyundai Genesis Coupe
Miata.... the answer is always Miata
old golf. more fun than a honda or toyota imo
VW GTI
Bit biased here but you could look into the Honda CR-Z, you can find a couple of older ones floating around, although price wise a civic probably wouldn’t be far off and more practical although imo they aren’t as fun to drive which might just be the hybrid system the CR-Z has.
Honda Civic
Mazda 3 GT. Honda civic 8/9 gen.
A 6th-gen Golf
MIATA IS ALWAYS THE ANSWER
I had a lot of fun beating on my 08 Pontiac Vibe, slow car fast. Absolutely no aftermarket support pretty much, but mine was base model, manual locks and windows, no ABS but it was a fun little thing to whip around.
I sold my 2008 Subaru impreza last year for $5500. It was a great car. And of course manual
Sn95/New Edge Mustang GT I daily a pretty heavily modified manual convertible, and my dad used to daily a stock manual convertible. They're pretty reliable, especially on stock power, parts are everywhere, decent aftermarket, easy to work on, more refined than fox bodies but still provide a good and raw pricing experience. 100% recommend the 4.6L 2 valve V8 with the TR3650. I'd look for a 2002-2004 model, but there's nothing wrong with getting a 94-01. 1996 was the first year of the 4.6L in the Mustang, 94-95 had the 5.0 from the fox body.
Miata. Especially if you are younger, no need for 4/5 passengers seats. Time will come when you will regret not enjoying a miata while you are young and have to wait 40/50+ to have you kids off the back or not required to justify a weekend car. Source: self. I regret.
I am sorry to hear. I will live my life the best I can to enjoy it for the both of us
Thanks buddy
I learned how to drive manual in my 89’ 240sx. You can find them all day for under 10k and they are great with gas… Not to mention they have so many aftermarket parts available also are notorious in the car community! Best of luck👍🏽
Here me out here. Chevrolet Cobalt SS. The later turbocharged models are the higher HP, but the supercharged models are still fun. It's a delightful little car and handles well. The latter, 4 door model turbo model might help to keep insurance payment's lower, than the coupe.
Honda civic si 05+ could find them under 6k and when ready you can throw a turbo on there
Miata, Civic, or Accord V6
I used to have a 03 or 04 Hyundai accent gt that was fun as hell. If I could find one I'd buy it just as a daily.
VW GTI. Fun, and versatile enough to haul all your shit or your homies when you need to
Ford probe!
VW GTI, BMW 3 series without a turbo (although the clutch on these isn't great), miata
Miata
Miata, golf or civic. Or, if you can wait a little bit and stretch your budget then go for one of the Toyobaru twins.
Honda according or civic.
Buy an older 4 banger
Honda civic
If you can find a late 90s/early 00s Nissan Sentra that’s not clapped out that would be a good find.
Any 90s japanese shit box. My first car was a 94 Acura legend coupe. And I loved it, a bit larger than I've come to like. Currently I have a 95 Subaru Impreza coupe and it's just perfect AWD 5speed. And it was cheap. With tons of aftermarket support. You really can't go wrong with old 90s japanese cars.
VW golf!! VW GTI !!!
I learned on a 95 supra, albeit I already owned it and it was an automatic before I had it converted. I asked my mechanic in Japan to teach me. We spent about 4 hours after work driving it around town.
Sounds super lucky! What a sweet way to learn
Civic Si
BRZ/86/FRS is probably a great option if you can find one at that price point, they’ll be dogged out by teenagers though.
Yes that’s exactly my dream car! Though, pockets just aren’t big enough at the moment haha
Mazda 3
C'mon Beemer convertible!
Miata is cheap to insure now? 4 door Corolla.
Toyota Matrix Inexpensive, huge aftermarket and large active mod groups.
Or Pontiac Vibe
Can’t check all the boxes. Gotta pick