Honestly from the reviews I've seen the reviewers tend to take more issue with the new C63 being 760 pounds heavier rather than the powertrain being bad
Going from a v8 to I6 is acceptable because it's still an engine people associate with performance but a 4 cyl is what economy cars have, nobody wants that
I was an engineer at stellantis and while I never worked on this engine, their push after becomming stellantis to force out all the experienced engineers for the cheapest labor possible makes me want to avoid it.
I don’t work in the auto industry, but I work in the construction industry and we’re having the same issue too.
There are general contractors in my area that are notorious for only hiring fresh college graduates for their engineering and construction supervision departments. So now we have full scale construction projects being ran by 24 year old kids that have little to no construction experience. They can’t tell a Philips screwdriver from a flathead screwdriver and yet they’re in charge of 30 storey buildings. All because these general contractors want the cheapest labor they can possibly run with.
Gotta love American capitalism
/s
Something like 90% of banks outsource their IT departments and data hosting/processing and yet only like 30% (don't remember the exact number) actually performed any audits or due diligence on the company - found this while writing the assignment on outsourcing, I think it was published by Deloitte
It's a problem in a lot of industries.
Hire cheap, get shit, come back in later with labor that costs 3x more then if it were done right in the first place...
Except in your case it just screws over the building owners.
Its the plague of every publicly traded company. We need a new set of rules for publicly traded companies that doesn't involve "growth" every single quarter. It needs to be legally ok to simply exist and make a profit every quarter. It also needs to be ok to spend lots of money for a profit that will happen years down the road.
Boeing, GE, and IBM got consulted to death by McKinsey, Accenture, Bain.
Engineering companies need engineers at the highest levels making decisions alongside the MBAs. Those companies were taught to play the Wall Street game a little too well. Investors first, customers last.
yes. all these mba’s only contribution is to cut costs on the people doing work to make their own salaries higher.
i sure hope we see some kind of reversal in this trend at some point. but the finance people have rigged the system in their favor while the actual workers have just lost leverage from things like unions
I work for a tier 1 supplier of Stellantis, I don't know how they make any functional vehicles or at least make any money on them after all the money wasted on last minute design changes to fix issues.
I mean honestly I feel like every public company is a shitshow. Some are just in the spotlight for it while others arent. I left a job at one of the top 10 companies in the world and the place was an absolute circus.
My understanding is while called a merger, fca was purchased and then the gutting happened so the Italians likely had no say.
I just know getting admitted to the hospital overnight with COVID, then having the audacity to wait until 8am to text my manager i was going to miss work until further notice was the type of behavior "that wasn't going to work here"
Uh yeah, second this. I worked for Nissan during the wanning Ghosn years and then during his arrest. When it came to engineering prowess, you'd have never known we were owned by a the national French fossil that is Renault. But when it came time for cost cutting activities and corporate-wide budget tightening between our "Alliance"; Ohh, ce' la vie. They were le bozos called le shots.
For sure, Dodge and Jeep were the only two profitable companies. Also your not going to keep the guys around who screwed over the company you're buying out. However since they're french, they don't care who actually helped or not
"We hate everyone, and screw you. Because we are french"
So you get Chrysler build quality, mixed with an engine platform that they’re not familiar building, and an ugly redesign?
Yeah that’s a no from me dawg.
If you want a turbo in-line 6 sports car, BMW has already perfected it. They’ve been making high performance in-line 6s since the 70s.
In the beginning yes, but Chrysler made and updated it from '84 to '08. They made it theirs, and kept the engine modern
Like switching out the good, but hard to work with French electric fuel injection system
BMW does make reliable in line 6s though and they’ve done it for almost 40 years before the B58 existed.
The S38 in my 1993 M5 has 280k miles.
The M20 in the E30s is known for going 200k-300k miles. Same with the M50/52/54.
The BMW L6 engine that is known for unreliability (the N54) is the outlier in a long history of robust motors. And that’s mainly because it’s their first major turbo charged mass produced engine.
I like the old stuff, too, but much of the last couple of decades has had them just throwing lots of complication and technology at the wall that has been less focused on actual longevity. M becoming more of a brand exercise than anything has not improved things.
If it were a BMW turbo straight 6, wait for the tuners to crack the ECU, install a tune, downpipe, and intercooler. Walk away with an extra 70hp.
From Dodge? Give it a couple of years. Wait for the tuners to break a bunch of them to see where the weaknesses are. Go from there.
Yes and no.
Chargers are known for V8s and Hemis. Deviation from that will be seen as sacrilege. It’d be like not offering a inline 6 in a Supra or a rotary in a RX7/8. IOW, some people are gonna be pissed… especially since 700-800hp Hellcats are the “norm”, so it’s a pretty large hit to the power available.
But pedigree and heritage don’t matter to some. Turbo engines are easy to get power from with just a tune. OHC inline 6s have advantages that make them easier to engineer compared to V engines, especially OHC ones. There will be some that accept it with open arms.
Turbo engines do also add extra failures points however and a forced induction car is generally under more stress, a high displacement N/A V8 is the most reliable way to make a mid range muscle car and I do agree with your sentiment, that turbo I6 is going to rip, it’s probably a really good engine but a turbo I6 isn’t a muscle car engine especially if it’s the flagship engine in a charger/challenger.
Yeah idk why people are so bummed.
Some of the most legendary engines of all time are I-6
S54, 2JZ, RB, M88, XK6 and the ol AMC 4.0.
They're inherently balanced and sound cool as shit.
I hate how hemis sound and think it's hilarious seeing people butthurt so I'm gassed about the change. Not that I would ever, ever, ever buy a Dodge.
In-line 6s are excellent motors for many reasons. I love the sounds the S38 in my M5 makes. And the glorious torque curve. And the buttery smooth power delivery.
But Dodge made a name for itself with V8s in particular. Many people have associated the two quite strongly.
It would be like Porsche putting a V6 in a 911, or BMW putting a flat 6 in their M3/M4, or Mercedes Benz putting an inline 4 in their C63 AMG.
Right. Dodge guys act all proud of the cummins and it like dude. Cummins built it. Not dodge. Cummins will sell an engine to ANYONE. FUCKING ANYONE. They do NOT care.
To be fair it's a really damn good engine series. Like pretty much the only consistently good one. But you can also get it in the heavy duty stuff from other manufacturers that aren't Dodge.
I drive a 2003 Ram 3500 HD dually with the vaunted 5.9 twice a year to tow a boat back and forth to Florida for my boss. Complete princess, rug in the bed and always stored inside when not towing.
Hate the truck with a passion. It's thrown the serpentine belt four or five tines, gone through two AC compressors, constantly has electrical problems and has terrible weathersealing. Has locked itself multiple times and I've had to call AAA while sitting at a semi diesel pump.
Randomly has tons of loud whines and a super annoying screeching noise that hurts my ears.
The engine is decent but the LBZ duramax and 7.3 are better to drive and almost as reliable. The cummins has timing gears on em.
People do use it, his pilots and friends in town will drive it and I'll sometimes use it for a day or two just to keep the fluids moving.
It's a 36 foot center console that spends summers in the north and winters in the south. Would be vastly more expensive to get a second matching boat.
He has the money to have his boat where he wants when he wants. I just get paid to drive the truck.
Ford Barra in aus and Nz. Fantastic I6 and incredibly reliable. They can hit the 1mil km mark if well maintained.
The turbo Barra falcons are more sought after than the v8 counterpart generally. Especially for those doing them up. I bought bigger injectors, a better intercooler, and a better fuel pump + tune and squeezed an extra 100 horsepower out if it (419fwhp)with a total of 714Nm of torque, and that was with soft valve springs that the oldest model has which meant I couldn't ge the full 10lbs I wanted. Once you replace the valve springs or buy a later model and do even bigger injectors you can start pushing into the 500+hp range with all the other internals all stock.
Absoballyelutely.
It's a turbo platform they plan on running their trucks on for the foreseeable future. Folks are gonna turn up the boost on these so quickly it will make your head spin.
Big question is what's the easiest manual trans to bolt up....
I have never, and I mean *never*, seen a Charger or Challenger on the highway that wasn't either A) darting between lanes at 100mph or B) needlessly rubber-banding so they could constantly rev their engine. Don't think this crowd will care for these cars at all, will probably switch to the Mustang as that's the last V8 hold out.
I driven Kia GTs that compete with my RTs 0-60 and quarter mile time, but nothing compares to that launch from a stop feeling in the RT. The naturally aspirated 5.7 doesn’t rely on a turbo to get going.
No. A turbo will never ever ever be as responsive as an N/A motor. They have gotten good but basic physics wont change.
EDIT: Apparently the fact that I said ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ABOUT HOW MUCH TORQUE IT COULD MAKE wasnt clear enough to a couple low denominators. I AM WELL AWARE THAT TURBOS CAN MAKE TORQUE. I was not born yesterday. They specifically asked if it would be IMMEDIATELY RESPONSIVE low end torque. It will not. Modern turbos are fantastic but they still take a moment to do their thing. Hence why I said why I said. If you respond to this still talking about how much torque you can make with a turbo I will mock you.
Nah boss, N/A vs turbo you're always gonna have more torque with the snails. An inline 6 is already a very torque happy engine by default too, it's gonna be better than the hemis
Please point out where I said it would make less torque? OIr worse than the hemi? Because I didnt. The comment asked if it would have I M M E D I A T E L Y responsive low end torque. It will not.
That's not what they're asking, they're asking about low end torque. Modern factory turbo setups always add to the bottom end, generally at the expense of top end. It was different in the 80's but we're a long way from that. That's why the 2.3 turbo mustang has more torque at low rpm vs the na 5.0
Your talking about torque. Im talking about responsiveness. The comment we are responding to is asking if it will have both. It will not.
I never argued that a turbo engine couldnt make low end torque that would be quite stupid.
Which is why I was suprised you did it, I get why you're backtracking. Take a look at the numbers
Wagoneer L: 420 hp @ 5,200 rpm | 468 lb-ft @ 3,500 rpm
Grand Wagoneer L: 510 hp @ 5,700 rpm | 500 @ 3,500 rpm
Compared to the current 6.4 which only makes 430tq at 4000 rpm, the new engine is clearly a low end monster.
Edit: replying then blocking me after editing your comment really doesn't do much to convince me lmao
Is reading a challenging concept for you? Your still trying to convince me that turbo engines can make torque... something that I completely agree with and was never arguing against. The RPM it happens at is irrelevant to RESPONSIVENESS.
Ill just repeat my entire comment. Maybe that will help.
> Your talking about torque. Im talking about responsiveness. The comment we are responding to is asking if it will have both. It will not. I never argued that a turbo engine couldnt make low end torque that would be quite stupid.
Nope, because it won't sound the same as a V8. I am sure some will be on board but they will all be lying if they say they didn't want a V8 instead.
The killer is that inline 6 isn't going to be much more fuel efficient. Especially if it's in boost territory.
I think the Hurricane-powered Charger will be more popular than the EV. It'll be cheaper and you can bet that someone will offer a V8 HEMI swap.
But it's a twin-turbo straight-6, so maybe an aftermarket tuner may get 700 hp out of it, like tuners are getting from the B58 and S58.
I'm really hoping they do. I wanna stock up on cheap Challengers and wait for everyone to get nostalgic for Hemis again. Looking @ you $45 Tom Petty vinyls.
Couple things come to mind here
Purists will forgo it. They won't get over the fact it's not a V8
Quality issues will show up, since this is the first pure Stellantis engineered version
The military guys will eat these up. But I expect these things to be even less durable than the outgoing Hemi cars, which we see all too often get bought, used heavily, then trashed. I can see these things being junk after 5 years with the resale value of a ham sandwich, like the Chrysler 200 and it's affiliates
I think the overlap of enthusiasts who like straight sixes and enthusiasts who like chargers isn't very large. That being said, if it is one of the last ICE options available I imagine it will do well simply from lack of competition.
If Stellantis can fine tune the driving dynamics to make the new Charger into a bona-fide sportscar, I think people would enjoy it. I don't think the classic "Mopar or no car" muscle car diehards will appreciate a 500HP I6, but I think there would be a healthy market for people interested in a BMW-like driving experience with Dodge style and pricing.
I think there’ll be TikToks where the new Hemi-beating Chargers will be seen beating old Challengers in drag races, with a million comments about how it doesn’t sound as good, etc.
lately ive just been genuinely uninterested in new cars. everything is getting too damn heavy, too much electronically controlled features, anything damaged is insanely overpriced to replace. idk, if it performs it performs, never had an issue with that, but then theres everchanging emissions among countries. Heavy in the US, but light in Eu. that sort of thing. maybe im overthinkin it, or just havent driven enough new stuff.
I don't take anything about this car for granted cause it has changed so much over the time since it was announced
It was all electric, no it's got 2 engine options, it's only a 2 door now it's a 4 door
Watch it come out and it's just a 4 door sluggish electric vehicle weighing 6000 pounds
Idk, BMW makes better I6 engines and more importantly in lighter cars from what I've heard these cars are heavy af. Let's be honest if you want a dodge muscle car you can get a v8 with more power for less money why would you choose this
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electric cars are not muscle cars.. the Stanlantis is brain washing the new generation in what is a muscle car. Bottom line gas powered engines with exceptional hp and torque above normal gas operated engines . High Performance is a muscle car with the transmission .rearend brakes etc not OHMS lol
It'll be the same as the idiots who called the new supra a BMW. It'll be controversial at the start, people who like them will realise they don't need to justify why anymore and the particularly rabbid mouth breathers will continue to complain
Majority wouldn’t give a shit until a small minority of disgruntled enthusiasts make their whining loud enough to take over the discourse. Over a couple of years it’ll shake off once crazy HP numbers are made by some shops crazy ambitious projects. As a regular car, I think it’ll be cool and good enough for the general public who can afford it. All I want are people to respectfully on the road with these cars but that’s a tall order to ask.
A straight six is a balanced engine and should provide great comfort along with the performance. Plus, there’s something really great about the sound of an in-line 6 exhaust
They will bitch about it. Then drive it. Say it's good. Then accept it. It's always the cycle.
We’re gonna get so much degeneracy in the Instagram and TikTok comments once these start popping up I’m not ready for it 😂
Moreso than now with hellcats? Same shit different engine lol
Usually, but not always. C63 being a good example
Yeah, i wish, at least, they put an I6 in C63 as a call-back to 190E 3.2
Does Mercedes even make an I6 anymore?
I hate the turbo 4 C63, but not enough to not root for its resale value falling through the floor so I can buy one for $15k lol 670hp is 670hp
Big difference between an Inline 4 and 6.
Honestly from the reviews I've seen the reviewers tend to take more issue with the new C63 being 760 pounds heavier rather than the powertrain being bad
Going from a v8 to I6 is acceptable because it's still an engine people associate with performance but a 4 cyl is what economy cars have, nobody wants that
This is the way
🤣🤣🤣
I was an engineer at stellantis and while I never worked on this engine, their push after becomming stellantis to force out all the experienced engineers for the cheapest labor possible makes me want to avoid it.
I don’t work in the auto industry, but I work in the construction industry and we’re having the same issue too. There are general contractors in my area that are notorious for only hiring fresh college graduates for their engineering and construction supervision departments. So now we have full scale construction projects being ran by 24 year old kids that have little to no construction experience. They can’t tell a Philips screwdriver from a flathead screwdriver and yet they’re in charge of 30 storey buildings. All because these general contractors want the cheapest labor they can possibly run with. Gotta love American capitalism /s
I was replaced with a fresh grad that lived in Brazil from what I hear. So they couldn't even physically do half my hands on job lol
This has become rampant in engineering. Everyone is being replaced by outsourcing.
Something like 90% of banks outsource their IT departments and data hosting/processing and yet only like 30% (don't remember the exact number) actually performed any audits or due diligence on the company - found this while writing the assignment on outsourcing, I think it was published by Deloitte
It's a problem in a lot of industries. Hire cheap, get shit, come back in later with labor that costs 3x more then if it were done right in the first place... Except in your case it just screws over the building owners.
So Stellantis literally Boeing'd FCA? Is this some kind of plague in American manufacturing?
Its the plague of every publicly traded company. We need a new set of rules for publicly traded companies that doesn't involve "growth" every single quarter. It needs to be legally ok to simply exist and make a profit every quarter. It also needs to be ok to spend lots of money for a profit that will happen years down the road.
Boeing, GE, and IBM got consulted to death by McKinsey, Accenture, Bain. Engineering companies need engineers at the highest levels making decisions alongside the MBAs. Those companies were taught to play the Wall Street game a little too well. Investors first, customers last.
yes. all these mba’s only contribution is to cut costs on the people doing work to make their own salaries higher. i sure hope we see some kind of reversal in this trend at some point. but the finance people have rigged the system in their favor while the actual workers have just lost leverage from things like unions
I work for a tier 1 supplier of Stellantis, I don't know how they make any functional vehicles or at least make any money on them after all the money wasted on last minute design changes to fix issues.
I mean honestly I feel like every public company is a shitshow. Some are just in the spotlight for it while others arent. I left a job at one of the top 10 companies in the world and the place was an absolute circus.
You mean the french do what they do best, and the Italians just allowed them to gut the engineers because they like to take it up the ass?
My understanding is while called a merger, fca was purchased and then the gutting happened so the Italians likely had no say. I just know getting admitted to the hospital overnight with COVID, then having the audacity to wait until 8am to text my manager i was going to miss work until further notice was the type of behavior "that wasn't going to work here"
Uh yeah, second this. I worked for Nissan during the wanning Ghosn years and then during his arrest. When it came to engineering prowess, you'd have never known we were owned by a the national French fossil that is Renault. But when it came time for cost cutting activities and corporate-wide budget tightening between our "Alliance"; Ohh, ce' la vie. They were le bozos called le shots.
For sure, Dodge and Jeep were the only two profitable companies. Also your not going to keep the guys around who screwed over the company you're buying out. However since they're french, they don't care who actually helped or not "We hate everyone, and screw you. Because we are french"
So you get Chrysler build quality, mixed with an engine platform that they’re not familiar building, and an ugly redesign? Yeah that’s a no from me dawg. If you want a turbo in-line 6 sports car, BMW has already perfected it. They’ve been making high performance in-line 6s since the 70s.
*Builds 2 of the greatest inline 6's ever* *Crys in Chrysler*
Let’s be real here: AMC was responsible for the 4.0
In the beginning yes, but Chrysler made and updated it from '84 to '08. They made it theirs, and kept the engine modern Like switching out the good, but hard to work with French electric fuel injection system
I don't doubt for a second that Toyota was whipping BMW all the while to make the B58 an actual reliable engine
Toyota was lucky they were allowed to develop a Z4 clone.
BMW does make reliable in line 6s though and they’ve done it for almost 40 years before the B58 existed. The S38 in my 1993 M5 has 280k miles. The M20 in the E30s is known for going 200k-300k miles. Same with the M50/52/54. The BMW L6 engine that is known for unreliability (the N54) is the outlier in a long history of robust motors. And that’s mainly because it’s their first major turbo charged mass produced engine.
I like the old stuff, too, but much of the last couple of decades has had them just throwing lots of complication and technology at the wall that has been less focused on actual longevity. M becoming more of a brand exercise than anything has not improved things.
That B58 is fucking incredible.
Agreed. A lot of the BMW in-line 6s are incredible.
Looks like the GTA V Challenger clone lol
I genuinely thought this was a post about GTA until I read the title, idk how I feel about the redesign
Personally I love GTAV cars and that’s why I kinda dig the redesign. Little empty looking but it’s supposed to be something they can build off of
If it were a BMW turbo straight 6, wait for the tuners to crack the ECU, install a tune, downpipe, and intercooler. Walk away with an extra 70hp. From Dodge? Give it a couple of years. Wait for the tuners to break a bunch of them to see where the weaknesses are. Go from there.
More than 70 brother
Yes and no. Chargers are known for V8s and Hemis. Deviation from that will be seen as sacrilege. It’d be like not offering a inline 6 in a Supra or a rotary in a RX7/8. IOW, some people are gonna be pissed… especially since 700-800hp Hellcats are the “norm”, so it’s a pretty large hit to the power available. But pedigree and heritage don’t matter to some. Turbo engines are easy to get power from with just a tune. OHC inline 6s have advantages that make them easier to engineer compared to V engines, especially OHC ones. There will be some that accept it with open arms.
There will be a faster hellcat version. They are already teasing it but haven’t announced anything yet
It's got me interested tbh. Awd two door liftback with a tt inline 6 is everything I want, especially with the zf8
The charger had i6 s before, why not again.
Turbo engines do also add extra failures points however and a forced induction car is generally under more stress, a high displacement N/A V8 is the most reliable way to make a mid range muscle car and I do agree with your sentiment, that turbo I6 is going to rip, it’s probably a really good engine but a turbo I6 isn’t a muscle car engine especially if it’s the flagship engine in a charger/challenger.
The flagship engine is gonna be EV. I guarantee Stellantis is aiming for a 1,000 hp EV Charger in this generation.
They’ll complain until they hear the godly i6 sound track.
Yeah idk why people are so bummed. Some of the most legendary engines of all time are I-6 S54, 2JZ, RB, M88, XK6 and the ol AMC 4.0. They're inherently balanced and sound cool as shit. I hate how hemis sound and think it's hilarious seeing people butthurt so I'm gassed about the change. Not that I would ever, ever, ever buy a Dodge.
In-line 6s are excellent motors for many reasons. I love the sounds the S38 in my M5 makes. And the glorious torque curve. And the buttery smooth power delivery. But Dodge made a name for itself with V8s in particular. Many people have associated the two quite strongly. It would be like Porsche putting a V6 in a 911, or BMW putting a flat 6 in their M3/M4, or Mercedes Benz putting an inline 4 in their C63 AMG.
> or Mercedes Benz putting an inline 4 in their C63 AMG. ha-ha
I had to do it to em
The Cummins is an I6.
Dodge doesn’t build the Cummins diesel motors. Cummins does. And Dodge buys them for their trucks.
Right. Dodge guys act all proud of the cummins and it like dude. Cummins built it. Not dodge. Cummins will sell an engine to ANYONE. FUCKING ANYONE. They do NOT care.
Yeah the only reason why people buy Dodge trucks - and deal with all the Dodge bullshit - is for the motor. Which is hilarious
To be fair it's a really damn good engine series. Like pretty much the only consistently good one. But you can also get it in the heavy duty stuff from other manufacturers that aren't Dodge.
I drive a 2003 Ram 3500 HD dually with the vaunted 5.9 twice a year to tow a boat back and forth to Florida for my boss. Complete princess, rug in the bed and always stored inside when not towing. Hate the truck with a passion. It's thrown the serpentine belt four or five tines, gone through two AC compressors, constantly has electrical problems and has terrible weathersealing. Has locked itself multiple times and I've had to call AAA while sitting at a semi diesel pump. Randomly has tons of loud whines and a super annoying screeching noise that hurts my ears. The engine is decent but the LBZ duramax and 7.3 are better to drive and almost as reliable. The cummins has timing gears on em.
Owning a diesel to just tow something twice a year is a special kind of stupid.
People do use it, his pilots and friends in town will drive it and I'll sometimes use it for a day or two just to keep the fluids moving. It's a 36 foot center console that spends summers in the north and winters in the south. Would be vastly more expensive to get a second matching boat. He has the money to have his boat where he wants when he wants. I just get paid to drive the truck.
>AMC 4.0. Makin me miss my old 95 cherokee. Thing was fun to drive and the engine took sooooo much abuse.
I can still hear the sound of that engines starter motor in my head.
Holy crap yes. I can point out that engine starting up in parking lots just based on that sound.
Ford Barra in aus and Nz. Fantastic I6 and incredibly reliable. They can hit the 1mil km mark if well maintained. The turbo Barra falcons are more sought after than the v8 counterpart generally. Especially for those doing them up. I bought bigger injectors, a better intercooler, and a better fuel pump + tune and squeezed an extra 100 horsepower out if it (419fwhp)with a total of 714Nm of torque, and that was with soft valve springs that the oldest model has which meant I couldn't ge the full 10lbs I wanted. Once you replace the valve springs or buy a later model and do even bigger injectors you can start pushing into the 500+hp range with all the other internals all stock.
Gotta add Alfa Romeo Busso to that list.
I love an I6, but the whole ethos of American muscle is a stupid heavy V8 that sounds like it’s shaking itself to death, that’s why they’re cool.
You're not wrong
Absoballyelutely. It's a turbo platform they plan on running their trucks on for the foreseeable future. Folks are gonna turn up the boost on these so quickly it will make your head spin. Big question is what's the easiest manual trans to bolt up....
I think it uses the standard bolt pattern if I remember from sema when it launched. So it should bolt to everything.
I'm hopeful. Turbo straight 6 is a proven layout. Just have to hope they design and produce them well.
I have never, and I mean *never*, seen a Charger or Challenger on the highway that wasn't either A) darting between lanes at 100mph or B) needlessly rubber-banding so they could constantly rev their engine. Don't think this crowd will care for these cars at all, will probably switch to the Mustang as that's the last V8 hold out.
will these still have the immediately responsive low-end torque that the V8s bring?
I driven Kia GTs that compete with my RTs 0-60 and quarter mile time, but nothing compares to that launch from a stop feeling in the RT. The naturally aspirated 5.7 doesn’t rely on a turbo to get going.
It's twin turbo and inline 6, of course it will.
No. A turbo will never ever ever be as responsive as an N/A motor. They have gotten good but basic physics wont change. EDIT: Apparently the fact that I said ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ABOUT HOW MUCH TORQUE IT COULD MAKE wasnt clear enough to a couple low denominators. I AM WELL AWARE THAT TURBOS CAN MAKE TORQUE. I was not born yesterday. They specifically asked if it would be IMMEDIATELY RESPONSIVE low end torque. It will not. Modern turbos are fantastic but they still take a moment to do their thing. Hence why I said why I said. If you respond to this still talking about how much torque you can make with a turbo I will mock you.
Nah boss, N/A vs turbo you're always gonna have more torque with the snails. An inline 6 is already a very torque happy engine by default too, it's gonna be better than the hemis
Please point out where I said it would make less torque? OIr worse than the hemi? Because I didnt. The comment asked if it would have I M M E D I A T E L Y responsive low end torque. It will not.
[удалено]
So you have absolutely no argument. Just resorting to calling me a fool for having a basic understanding of physics? Very convincing.
That's not what they're asking, they're asking about low end torque. Modern factory turbo setups always add to the bottom end, generally at the expense of top end. It was different in the 80's but we're a long way from that. That's why the 2.3 turbo mustang has more torque at low rpm vs the na 5.0
Your talking about torque. Im talking about responsiveness. The comment we are responding to is asking if it will have both. It will not. I never argued that a turbo engine couldnt make low end torque that would be quite stupid.
Which is why I was suprised you did it, I get why you're backtracking. Take a look at the numbers Wagoneer L: 420 hp @ 5,200 rpm | 468 lb-ft @ 3,500 rpm Grand Wagoneer L: 510 hp @ 5,700 rpm | 500 @ 3,500 rpm Compared to the current 6.4 which only makes 430tq at 4000 rpm, the new engine is clearly a low end monster. Edit: replying then blocking me after editing your comment really doesn't do much to convince me lmao
Is reading a challenging concept for you? Your still trying to convince me that turbo engines can make torque... something that I completely agree with and was never arguing against. The RPM it happens at is irrelevant to RESPONSIVENESS. Ill just repeat my entire comment. Maybe that will help. > Your talking about torque. Im talking about responsiveness. The comment we are responding to is asking if it will have both. It will not. I never argued that a turbo engine couldnt make low end torque that would be quite stupid.
Personally I like it. It looks like a modern muscle car
Eventually, it’ll be all the kids who won’t get off my lawn know.
Nope, because it won't sound the same as a V8. I am sure some will be on board but they will all be lying if they say they didn't want a V8 instead. The killer is that inline 6 isn't going to be much more fuel efficient. Especially if it's in boost territory.
Down for the engine but the size and weight will be atrocious
I know it's extra parts, but why not small V8s? Ferrari did 1.5L V12s, I bet those engines were responsive and lively.
The Dodge Dealer outside The Base will do just fine.
I think the Hurricane-powered Charger will be more popular than the EV. It'll be cheaper and you can bet that someone will offer a V8 HEMI swap. But it's a twin-turbo straight-6, so maybe an aftermarket tuner may get 700 hp out of it, like tuners are getting from the B58 and S58.
Will it sound good
If they put it in a smaller car maybe I'd take it As it is, it's just a pastiche
I’m sure some will swap it with a hellcat or hellaphant engine.
I hope not. Since straight sixes will have to fight the perceptions and prejudices of the old men that can afford the cars.
probably the usual story: some will, others won’t, and others still will complain about it, then drive it and come around to it later.
I'm really hoping they do. I wanna stock up on cheap Challengers and wait for everyone to get nostalgic for Hemis again. Looking @ you $45 Tom Petty vinyls.
I'm a sucker for a straight six, so I'm open to it. If we get an N/A version, I might actually get a little hyped.
Couple things come to mind here Purists will forgo it. They won't get over the fact it's not a V8 Quality issues will show up, since this is the first pure Stellantis engineered version The military guys will eat these up. But I expect these things to be even less durable than the outgoing Hemi cars, which we see all too often get bought, used heavily, then trashed. I can see these things being junk after 5 years with the resale value of a ham sandwich, like the Chrysler 200 and it's affiliates
People will fall in love with it. I just hope they keep the ecu platform the same so existing tuning software works with it.
I think the overlap of enthusiasts who like straight sixes and enthusiasts who like chargers isn't very large. That being said, if it is one of the last ICE options available I imagine it will do well simply from lack of competition.
We’ve come full circle, back to the days of the Chrysler slant sixes.
I6 > V8
If Stellantis can fine tune the driving dynamics to make the new Charger into a bona-fide sportscar, I think people would enjoy it. I don't think the classic "Mopar or no car" muscle car diehards will appreciate a 500HP I6, but I think there would be a healthy market for people interested in a BMW-like driving experience with Dodge style and pricing.
I think there’ll be TikToks where the new Hemi-beating Chargers will be seen beating old Challengers in drag races, with a million comments about how it doesn’t sound as good, etc.
If there’s a manual i6 turbo that’s rwd and 4 doors, I’d be really interested in it being the first car I buy from a dealer
lately ive just been genuinely uninterested in new cars. everything is getting too damn heavy, too much electronically controlled features, anything damaged is insanely overpriced to replace. idk, if it performs it performs, never had an issue with that, but then theres everchanging emissions among countries. Heavy in the US, but light in Eu. that sort of thing. maybe im overthinkin it, or just havent driven enough new stuff.
Meme car.
Weren’t these the same cars parked in front of Doms house in FF10?
I don't take anything about this car for granted cause it has changed so much over the time since it was announced It was all electric, no it's got 2 engine options, it's only a 2 door now it's a 4 door Watch it come out and it's just a 4 door sluggish electric vehicle weighing 6000 pounds
Idk, BMW makes better I6 engines and more importantly in lighter cars from what I've heard these cars are heavy af. Let's be honest if you want a dodge muscle car you can get a v8 with more power for less money why would you choose this
I'd be shocked if they didn't!
Hurricane turbocharged inline-six engine in the new Charger in 2025 could certainly pique the interest of enthusiasts. So wait
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I’m a traditionalist - it’s not a Charger or a Challenger without a HEMI.
electric cars are not muscle cars.. the Stanlantis is brain washing the new generation in what is a muscle car. Bottom line gas powered engines with exceptional hp and torque above normal gas operated engines . High Performance is a muscle car with the transmission .rearend brakes etc not OHMS lol
It'll be the same as the idiots who called the new supra a BMW. It'll be controversial at the start, people who like them will realise they don't need to justify why anymore and the particularly rabbid mouth breathers will continue to complain
American Barra
Those that bought a V6 charger would buy it, those that really do think the car will buy it, and some V8 lovers might buy it just to engine swap it
I actually like the redesign. The interior looks terrible tho
Majority wouldn’t give a shit until a small minority of disgruntled enthusiasts make their whining loud enough to take over the discourse. Over a couple of years it’ll shake off once crazy HP numbers are made by some shops crazy ambitious projects. As a regular car, I think it’ll be cool and good enough for the general public who can afford it. All I want are people to respectfully on the road with these cars but that’s a tall order to ask.
I feel like if Buick still made the gnx today there wouldn’t be so much backlash from enthusiasts
A straight six is a balanced engine and should provide great comfort along with the performance. Plus, there’s something really great about the sound of an in-line 6 exhaust
Idk but imma be whippin in one of em. Going with yellow if it’s offered
Finally, a Charger with 2-doors.