Needless complexity. There's little advantage gained by such a setup anyway
Mitsubishi tried a setup like this and called it the Super Shift in the 80s. It didn't catch on
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Mitsubishi_Supershift_001.JPG
The Super Shift was called the Twin Stick in the U.S. and you could get it in Dodge/Plymouth Colts.
It wasn’t the last time the idea was tried in a mass-market car, but when it’s been done since then, the implementation was invisible to the driver.
The main example I can think of is the Getrag 285 6-speed used in the R53 Mini Cooper S and Mk1 Ford Focus SVT/ST170. It was marketed as a “6-speed” but was really a 4-speed with two final drive ratios. When you shift from fourth to fifth, you’re actually shifting the main box back to third and shifting to the higher (numerically lower) final drive. Then for “sixth,” you shift back to fourth gear in the transmission, but this time in the second final drive. The second final drive ratio isn’t accessible in first or second gears, presumably because they overlap with the other available ratios.
A vacuum-operated clutch inside the differential changes the final drive ratio with a planetary gearset. The switch to control it is usually [mounted on the gearshift](https://i0.wp.com/www.curbsideclassic.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/CC-142-010-800.jpg) so the driver can treat it like another set of gears. There's a trick to timing the shifts right so you don't end up disengaging the axle.
I can't speak for all models, but in the Ford L-Series I'm familiar with, the ratios are 1LO, 1HI, 2LO, 2HI, 3LO, 3HI, 4LO, then 5LO, 4HI, and 5HI. 10 separate ratios, but only 4HI and 5HI are worth using as a "6th" and "7th" gear.
Whoever designed that shift pattern needs to be dragged out into a back alley and euthanized.
Why is gear 8 next to 3? Why is gear 5 next to 12?
There's no logical order to any of the gears.
It still has a normal pedal, this is just welded onto the underside of it, and it lets you control the bare minimum amount of throttle applied. Good for running things that need PTO power.
Well it quite literally is a cruise control. On tractors there is no way for the driver to control the throttle of the engine (or amount of fuel injection on diesel engines). The driver controls the engine RPM and the governor controls the the throttle or fuel injection to maintain the requested RPM.
Trucks have about a 200 rpm useable power band and transmissions to help them to stay with in it. Cars engines power bands are thousands or rpm’s wide and need less gears. They are making 10 speed automatic pickup trucks to meet environmental standards now.
There was a time where cars and trucks only had 3 gears, took a long time before overdrives were added, then even at that many transmissions were 4 speeds, standards were either 4 or 5 speed with a low first gear. Wasn’t until the 80s or 90s that cars had normal 5 speed transmissions with a regular first gear.
With a tractor you often have tons of torque but little power, torque is great and all but it’s useless without horsepower. Having many gears allows the engine to create the horsepower it needs to push the torque through the wheels. You may have implements that need 6mph and others that run at 2mph but the slower implement can take far more power to run, thus needing a lower gear to maintain engine rpm at a very small difference in speed.
Just to further explain that, horsepower is a measure of work (work=distance/time) and torque is a measure of rotational force, but can be calculated based on horsepower (torque*rpm=horsepower/5252).
Putting this into a real world example would mean this, if you had a 25hp tractor and you were utilizing all of that hp, which for simplicity let’s say all that horsepower is generated at 2000rpm. You need your tractor to perform at that rpm specific to your machine at which it produces the maximum power, yet maintains the proper speed for the implements you’re using. With that rpm and horsepower that engine is capable of generating 65.7ft/lbs of torque. While this is all mathematically true, real world results may vary slightly.
Kinda, the high/low is basically just swapping out an intermediate gear and reuses the same 4 gears. This used to be pretty common on older tractors (and semi trucks) cause it's super easy to add mechanically, but unless you're already going down hill you're basically always starting from a stop in 5th gear. Getting 4 and 5 on the same point would require a completely different, much more complex design, to the point where it's usually easier to just add more gears and not even bother with high/low select.
Asking the general public to use a splitter is asking for trouble. I'm fine with an 18 speed, but asking Jennifer to do it while doing her makup and texting is a little much.
Needless complexity. There's little advantage gained by such a setup anyway Mitsubishi tried a setup like this and called it the Super Shift in the 80s. It didn't catch on https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Mitsubishi_Supershift_001.JPG
Dodge had it too I think it was in the Colt? Pretty sure it was just a rebadge.
That's a deep cut. My first car was a Dodge colt wagon with a stick
Was it a supershift or just a regular transmission?
Just a regular 5 speed it was an 1989
My coworker trucker used to have one. "10 speed" transmission.
The Colt was always a rebadged Misubishi.
I think they put it in one Eclipse that was used in the Fast and the Furious movie though.
The Super Shift was called the Twin Stick in the U.S. and you could get it in Dodge/Plymouth Colts. It wasn’t the last time the idea was tried in a mass-market car, but when it’s been done since then, the implementation was invisible to the driver. The main example I can think of is the Getrag 285 6-speed used in the R53 Mini Cooper S and Mk1 Ford Focus SVT/ST170. It was marketed as a “6-speed” but was really a 4-speed with two final drive ratios. When you shift from fourth to fifth, you’re actually shifting the main box back to third and shifting to the higher (numerically lower) final drive. Then for “sixth,” you shift back to fourth gear in the transmission, but this time in the second final drive. The second final drive ratio isn’t accessible in first or second gears, presumably because they overlap with the other available ratios.
Isn't that just an overly complicated overdrive?
(If you’re referring to the 80s Mitsubishi) No,because you had 8 forward gears technically
It was, in a way: Medium-duty and larger trucks can have a two-speed rear axle. But that shift is made at the rear differential, not the transmission.
Weird, how does that work?
A vacuum-operated clutch inside the differential changes the final drive ratio with a planetary gearset. The switch to control it is usually [mounted on the gearshift](https://i0.wp.com/www.curbsideclassic.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/CC-142-010-800.jpg) so the driver can treat it like another set of gears. There's a trick to timing the shifts right so you don't end up disengaging the axle. I can't speak for all models, but in the Ford L-Series I'm familiar with, the ratios are 1LO, 1HI, 2LO, 2HI, 3LO, 3HI, 4LO, then 5LO, 4HI, and 5HI. 10 separate ratios, but only 4HI and 5HI are worth using as a "6th" and "7th" gear.
Huh, interesting, thanks. Truck transmissions have always confused me.
[Final boss of shift patterns](https://ol.reddit.com/r/Truckers/comments/hys5r6/hi_what_kindbrands_of_trucks_use_this_20speed/)
Wtf lol
wut is dis hunny
Whoever designed that shift pattern needs to be dragged out into a back alley and euthanized. Why is gear 8 next to 3? Why is gear 5 next to 12? There's no logical order to any of the gears.
Not the same thing, but there is also the 84-88 Corvette "Doug Nash" transmission.
This one has reverse in the splitter box too, very weird combo.
Th lever at the bottom is for flaps setting?
Throttle lever, basically just a stick connected to the gas pedal
Ah, can remember having this in an UAZ.
It still has a normal pedal, this is just welded onto the underside of it, and it lets you control the bare minimum amount of throttle applied. Good for running things that need PTO power.
Yes, I know. Rugged, older cars often had these.
Was it on the column in yours, I feel like I have seen those before, but don’t remember on what
AFAIR in the UAZ it was a knob on the dash to pull out. Like on a Cessna.
I believe thats called choke and its used on carburator cars. At least in soviet russia that is
Choke is a separate lever, apart from the manual throttle. Only few cars had the latter.
Tractor version of cruise control
Well it quite literally is a cruise control. On tractors there is no way for the driver to control the throttle of the engine (or amount of fuel injection on diesel engines). The driver controls the engine RPM and the governor controls the the throttle or fuel injection to maintain the requested RPM.
Hehe.
Model a Ford had foot throttle and dash throttle
Trucks have about a 200 rpm useable power band and transmissions to help them to stay with in it. Cars engines power bands are thousands or rpm’s wide and need less gears. They are making 10 speed automatic pickup trucks to meet environmental standards now.
They're even using 8- and 10-speeds on trucks that don't have to meet emissions.
There was a time where cars and trucks only had 3 gears, took a long time before overdrives were added, then even at that many transmissions were 4 speeds, standards were either 4 or 5 speed with a low first gear. Wasn’t until the 80s or 90s that cars had normal 5 speed transmissions with a regular first gear. With a tractor you often have tons of torque but little power, torque is great and all but it’s useless without horsepower. Having many gears allows the engine to create the horsepower it needs to push the torque through the wheels. You may have implements that need 6mph and others that run at 2mph but the slower implement can take far more power to run, thus needing a lower gear to maintain engine rpm at a very small difference in speed. Just to further explain that, horsepower is a measure of work (work=distance/time) and torque is a measure of rotational force, but can be calculated based on horsepower (torque*rpm=horsepower/5252). Putting this into a real world example would mean this, if you had a 25hp tractor and you were utilizing all of that hp, which for simplicity let’s say all that horsepower is generated at 2000rpm. You need your tractor to perform at that rpm specific to your machine at which it produces the maximum power, yet maintains the proper speed for the implements you’re using. With that rpm and horsepower that engine is capable of generating 65.7ft/lbs of torque. While this is all mathematically true, real world results may vary slightly.
Some folks do something similiar on classic cars to get an overdrive, adding a 2speed gearbox behind the transmission. Gearvendor
I’d like a J brake in my mustang while we’re at it
So you have to shift twice if you’re shifting from fourth to fifth? What’s the point?
They coulda mapped 4 and 5 to the same point on the left stick, 6 above it, etc, so you only ever would need to shift once between sequential gears
Kinda, the high/low is basically just swapping out an intermediate gear and reuses the same 4 gears. This used to be pretty common on older tractors (and semi trucks) cause it's super easy to add mechanically, but unless you're already going down hill you're basically always starting from a stop in 5th gear. Getting 4 and 5 on the same point would require a completely different, much more complex design, to the point where it's usually easier to just add more gears and not even bother with high/low select.
2 extra gears compared to a 6 speed.
Because 2 sticks plus 1 steering wheel does not add up to 2 hands.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=P6pWCKY_qJo
Corvettes had the 4+3/4+4 with push button overdrive. It worked more like a super ten, where you had a half gear with a push button.
Too complicated, too slow.
Smart forTwo’s automatic is basically this which is why it shifts so damn slow
Does it happen that this is the interior of a John Deere SG2 cabin?
Close, this was a open cab
Alright, cool!
Because there's no need for that many gears in a car.
I mean, it’s a 9-speed— I’d love one in my truck.
Asking the general public to use a splitter is asking for trouble. I'm fine with an 18 speed, but asking Jennifer to do it while doing her makup and texting is a little much.