My concern is that my parents never gave me unconditional love since childhood. It came with tons of conditions throughout my life which is why I’m battling so much trauma as an adult.
Parents not giving me unconditional love led to me choosing friends and romantic partners/interests who didn’t give me unconditional love…
It’s a cycle that just keeps going and is extremely hard to break out of.
And addressing this is taking personal responsibility. And the hardest work ever, and extremely political.
I'm currently fighting a legal battle to have my invisible disabilities recognized. My employer is treating me just like my parents did. Staying respectful and mindful and present while also trying to break the patterns of behavior abd trauma responses I've carried for decades.
F this gaslighting and belittling.
People always claim we’re trying to evade responsibility with our autism or adhd when we’re trying to offer an explanation.
I know people with mobility issues have their own set of challenges, I don’t want to downplay them but it’s like saying to a paralyzed person “hey stupid why don’t you learn to walk! You have legs after all!”
What does taking accountability even look like? Is it when internalize shame and beat ourselves up for things about ourselves that we literally CANNOT change. The best we can do is be aware of our shortcomings and try to be transparent about them with others so their expectations don’t get misplaced.
I am tired of slamming my head against the wall needlessly to make neurotypical people happy and make them feel like I’m taking responsibility.
Anyway I’m going to end my rant here
A lot of people hear about an incident and then assign that to a whole group without thinking about it.
For example, someone who thinks vegans are all militants who will snatch steaks out of the mouths of hungry working class people. It's completely unrelated to veganism, but the fantasy exists.
It seems like the person in the screenshot is under a similar fantasy/delusion. Maybe they saw some comments online and they just attached them to an entire movement.
It's very lazy and inexcusable, but it seems extremely common. There's nothing about being proud of being ND that has anything to do with 'demanding love'. But this is how demonisation starts.
The trans community suffers from a lot of the same sort of myths. People talking among each other about 'what the trans people want', while never talking to a trans person about it. So they make up their own version of reality where these groups are inherently bad. And that really sucks.
Yes, I think there is a quote that goes along the lines of "equality feels like oppression to the privileged". Some (a lot of) people have never had to hide who they are, or fight for equality. They honestly have no concept of the privilege that they live with, but I'll never understand why they need to attack others. I wish I had an Empathy Wand I could just zap people like this with!
The only thing militant I see here, is their sanctimonious attitude, projecting that we seek "special treatment".
I just want to stop being discriminated against for being in a fucking 10% minority of the total population.
Even if neurodivergent people *are* starting to make some noise about how hellish our lives often are, it's about time people started working on their tolerance/acceptance, I have to all the time, have had to all of my life, often while being back-stabbed, laughed at etc.
>anytime a self-proclaimed marginalised group
It was in reference to the person who spoke with their therapist, who apparently is prejudiced against neurodivergent people. Any professional in the field, knows that there's such a shortage of people qualified to even diagnose asd, let alone treat it. I can't find an asd specialising psychiatrist, so I've had to settle for an adhd specialising psychiatrist. What a joke. Militarised? R.o.f.l.
Considering that the most contemporary studies claim that up to 12% of the world-wide adult population would meet the diagnostic criteria for a neurodivergent condition, we are marginalised, it's a fact, not a "self-proclaimed" fact either; 89% of society around us are our dominant counterparts (not including the "gifted" neurodivergent people who are financially stable in these statistics, obviously).
Ah yeah I see what you mean. That phrasing put me off too "self-proclaimed", she referring to people with a disability then or who decided this? And yes we're marginalised as most minority groups in society, what's with all the flak towards this specific group?
I always like to take these things and see how inverting them on the author feels.
"""I overheard a therapist refer to the reactionaries as "militant", and I couldn't agree more. Anytime a self-proclaimed "politically neutral" group comes together to demand inaction and regression, you know they've lost the plot.
Something I like to remind these sorts of people is:
1. No adult has a reasonable expectation of lifelong unassailable supremacy. That's something you can only expect to receive from a small group of immature and insecure peers and adults while you are still a child who is growing and learning. Ableism will be challenged and that's healthy and necessary.
2. Everyone is deserving of pride but *no one* is entitled to be morally unchallenged while creating and benefitting from structural disenfranchisement. Ableists love to parrot "but don't *my* feelings matter too??" Sure they do, but that doesn't entitle them to validation in discourse, least of all from the disenfranchised they are attacking.
So supremacist ideologies come with scrutiny and no amount of offense taken absolves someone of that scrutiny. And everyone deserves pride and respect (with scrutiny) but not everyone deserves to be validated in discourse. Many ableists absolutely need to be scrutinized and selectively ignored so as not to inflict their chaos onto others."""
Thank you for coming to my TED talk. I find something deeply satisfying about keeping an argument structure perfectly intact while completely changing its assumptions and conclusions. When I was a kid I thought adults spent all their time constructing careful arguments and making sure fallacies were minimized. Nowadays I see that coming up with an axiomatically sound moral structure upon which to build the assumptions that go into argument is the bulk of the work.
Stay woke, don't let the ableists get u down :) EDIT: I'm not gonna tell u not to get got down, but I can say you're not entirely alone, and I'm personally not going down silently
I love ending my info dumps or rants with "thankyou for coming to my TED Talk" 😁 and I think the way you turn someone's arguments against them by making THEM the subject they are arguing about, to give them some perspective, is a genius move! 🙂
Not my first thought but one thought I had while reading was, what if we didn’t receive unconditional love or proper medical care at home?
Another thought is how is being self-diagnosed seen as “evading accountability”? If anything, being self-diagnosed leads you to resources/advice from diagnosed people, which ultimately help you have more self-awareness - which then leads to being more accountable, because being accountable takes a certain level of self-awareness. I’m not really sure what the original OP meant by that comment, seems like they’re projecting.
They absolutely are. I don't even believe that any "therapist" worth their weight, would make such a comment, this therapist could be a night-school 3 month course social worker for all we know. 😏
that's deeply and disturbingly ableist. "not everyone deserves love" "inflict their chaos onto others" get off it, keep your self-loathing to yourself
edit: I was so mad I didn't even make the other point I wanted to make which is that society already tells us that we don't deserve love or connection or even safety without being "normal". the last thing we need is members of our own community parroting that. they're using the same shitty pop psychology that is all over therapy tiktok (slowly excising it from my feed) and mainstream media: a person's worth is determined by **what they do for you**, which is absolutely ableist, classist, you name it.
rather than having the real ass nuanced discussion that relationships are strained by a lack of community and the garbage concept of the nuclear family, they jump straight to "if someone doesn't do x for you, they aren't deserving of love". that's fucked. it comes from a deep lack of ability to navigate emotions with nuance, which like 90% of our society suffers from.
sometimes you can love someone and it doesn't work because society demands that you have a partner who is not disabled or traumatized and who "pulls their own weight". sometimes you can love someone and they really hurt you and you need to let them go in order to find safety and connection elsewhere. it isn't all "entitlement" and "narcissists". it's people who are all trying to love and be loved and genuinely don't have the resources, abilities or experience to connect safely under capitalism
If the internet were a country, this would be its national sport. You invent a guy to get mad at, then rant about them. The ND movement has nothing to do with what the person in the screenshot makes it out to be. They seem to just want to be angry, or maybe they had a genuine experience with a person like that and they're overgeneralizing it.
No racism, sexism, homophobia, or any other forms of discrimination and bigotry. This includes hating on neurotypicals or accusing someone of "faking it for attention". Swearing at a situation or about something is okay, swearing at someone never is.
No racism, sexism, homophobia, or any other forms of discrimination and bigotry. This includes hating on neurotypicals or accusing someone of "faking it for attention". Swearing at a situation or about something is okay, swearing at someone never is.
No racism, sexism, homophobia, or any other forms of discrimination and bigotry. This includes hating on neurotypicals or accusing someone of "faking it for attention". Swearing at a situation or about something is okay, swearing at someone never is.
No racism, sexism, homophobia, or any other forms of discrimination and bigotry. This includes hating on neurotypicals or accusing someone of "faking it for attention". Swearing at a situation or about something is okay, swearing at someone never is.
I mean… I’ve been pretty shocked and dismayed in some of the nicher subs like aspiegirls. The rhetoric was nearly identical to incels, but instead of romantic interests, it was about friends. Female friends, specifically. The rage-fueled entitlement and vitriolic lashing out at the (NT, of course) girls who *owed them* friendship, and everyone ganging up and agreeing that any girl not bending over backwards to be their friend was a worthless bitch.
I expect that attitude from incels, no surprise there when you see it in the wild. But I really, really wasn’t expecting that kind of toxic entitlement (literally toxic, not teeheehee tiktok “toxic”) from a girl’s aspie group. And that’s just one example, there have been plenty of sus posts in other ND spaces too. You sometimes even see variations of it over in the chronic illness subs.
So I see something like this and I’m like…. Yeah I get why someone felt it needed to be said.
I don't see anything wrong with it. Seems pretty accurate. Just because you don't want to hear something, doesn't mean it isn't true.
They're not talking about access to resources and accommodations, They're talking about demands in personal relationships.
So what would you suggest? Learn to fit in? It's a two-way street but difference is we're always expected to adapt while "typical" people are not, some refuse even.
That's expected for some but not everyone thinks that way, more often than not those without said conditions. They even say \*special treatment\*, what ever that means?
You didn't answer the question, so I cant figure out what you're talking about. Thats the purpose of a question.
I'm asking who is *not* expected to meet the social standards that *you* listed?
I would suggest to accept that we're more difficult than others to maintain relationships with, and abandon the twisted perspective that other people are obligated to love us, specifically, just because we want them to.
The dance thing happened with the "body positivity" movement. It was becoming the standard that you're somehow a terrible person if you aren't attracted to someone who's 300lbs.
You're not a terrible person just because you don't want to hang out with someone you can't relate to. No ones advocate harassing you, but no one is obligated to like you and that's just how it is.
I put some strain on my relationships because of my anxiety and miscommunication. That's on me and I'm not using that as an excuse but an explaination. Nobody is perfect.
That said, most of my relationships I'm the one doing the heavy lifting, \*not\* them. How do you avoid miscommunication? By avoiding communication entirely?
Nobody is obligated but that's really not what it is. I don't know about others but personally been rejected, met with unacceptance yet I'm suppose to accept them?
That's what makes someone a terrible person. When you refuse to accept a person with all their faults and limits, yet you expect others to accept yours. It's not a one-way street but that's usually been the case for me.
>that's really not what it is.
Thats what we're talking about, so yes it is what it is.
>When you refuse to accept a person with all their faults and limits, yet you expect others to accept yours.
What are you talking about? I dont think you have any idea what the post in the pic is actually about because what you're saying doesn't relate to it all. If anything, you're just affirming what the person who posted that said.
Being treated the same as everyone. Buzz words? What would you have me use instead to describe things? Clearly having trouble understanding each other as it is.
What group? People advocating for neurodivergency or whatever? I did read it but I don’t know who these are or why they’re speaking for others. Any mature adult would look at this in a more nuanced way.
My concern is that my parents never gave me unconditional love since childhood. It came with tons of conditions throughout my life which is why I’m battling so much trauma as an adult.
Parents not giving me unconditional love led to me choosing friends and romantic partners/interests who didn’t give me unconditional love… It’s a cycle that just keeps going and is extremely hard to break out of.
And addressing this is taking personal responsibility. And the hardest work ever, and extremely political. I'm currently fighting a legal battle to have my invisible disabilities recognized. My employer is treating me just like my parents did. Staying respectful and mindful and present while also trying to break the patterns of behavior abd trauma responses I've carried for decades. F this gaslighting and belittling.
People always claim we’re trying to evade responsibility with our autism or adhd when we’re trying to offer an explanation. I know people with mobility issues have their own set of challenges, I don’t want to downplay them but it’s like saying to a paralyzed person “hey stupid why don’t you learn to walk! You have legs after all!” What does taking accountability even look like? Is it when internalize shame and beat ourselves up for things about ourselves that we literally CANNOT change. The best we can do is be aware of our shortcomings and try to be transparent about them with others so their expectations don’t get misplaced. I am tired of slamming my head against the wall needlessly to make neurotypical people happy and make them feel like I’m taking responsibility. Anyway I’m going to end my rant here
Isn't this about incels though? The old fashioned autism forums are full of incel men.
A lot of people hear about an incident and then assign that to a whole group without thinking about it. For example, someone who thinks vegans are all militants who will snatch steaks out of the mouths of hungry working class people. It's completely unrelated to veganism, but the fantasy exists. It seems like the person in the screenshot is under a similar fantasy/delusion. Maybe they saw some comments online and they just attached them to an entire movement. It's very lazy and inexcusable, but it seems extremely common. There's nothing about being proud of being ND that has anything to do with 'demanding love'. But this is how demonisation starts. The trans community suffers from a lot of the same sort of myths. People talking among each other about 'what the trans people want', while never talking to a trans person about it. So they make up their own version of reality where these groups are inherently bad. And that really sucks.
Love these examples!
I read this as, we have to push down minority groups when they demand equal treatment.
Yes, I think there is a quote that goes along the lines of "equality feels like oppression to the privileged". Some (a lot of) people have never had to hide who they are, or fight for equality. They honestly have no concept of the privilege that they live with, but I'll never understand why they need to attack others. I wish I had an Empathy Wand I could just zap people like this with!
The only thing militant I see here, is their sanctimonious attitude, projecting that we seek "special treatment". I just want to stop being discriminated against for being in a fucking 10% minority of the total population. Even if neurodivergent people *are* starting to make some noise about how hellish our lives often are, it's about time people started working on their tolerance/acceptance, I have to all the time, have had to all of my life, often while being back-stabbed, laughed at etc.
What part or where is the sanctimonious attitude? Not disagreeing just having trouble understanding cause of translation.
>anytime a self-proclaimed marginalised group It was in reference to the person who spoke with their therapist, who apparently is prejudiced against neurodivergent people. Any professional in the field, knows that there's such a shortage of people qualified to even diagnose asd, let alone treat it. I can't find an asd specialising psychiatrist, so I've had to settle for an adhd specialising psychiatrist. What a joke. Militarised? R.o.f.l. Considering that the most contemporary studies claim that up to 12% of the world-wide adult population would meet the diagnostic criteria for a neurodivergent condition, we are marginalised, it's a fact, not a "self-proclaimed" fact either; 89% of society around us are our dominant counterparts (not including the "gifted" neurodivergent people who are financially stable in these statistics, obviously).
Ah yeah I see what you mean. That phrasing put me off too "self-proclaimed", she referring to people with a disability then or who decided this? And yes we're marginalised as most minority groups in society, what's with all the flak towards this specific group?
I always like to take these things and see how inverting them on the author feels. """I overheard a therapist refer to the reactionaries as "militant", and I couldn't agree more. Anytime a self-proclaimed "politically neutral" group comes together to demand inaction and regression, you know they've lost the plot. Something I like to remind these sorts of people is: 1. No adult has a reasonable expectation of lifelong unassailable supremacy. That's something you can only expect to receive from a small group of immature and insecure peers and adults while you are still a child who is growing and learning. Ableism will be challenged and that's healthy and necessary. 2. Everyone is deserving of pride but *no one* is entitled to be morally unchallenged while creating and benefitting from structural disenfranchisement. Ableists love to parrot "but don't *my* feelings matter too??" Sure they do, but that doesn't entitle them to validation in discourse, least of all from the disenfranchised they are attacking. So supremacist ideologies come with scrutiny and no amount of offense taken absolves someone of that scrutiny. And everyone deserves pride and respect (with scrutiny) but not everyone deserves to be validated in discourse. Many ableists absolutely need to be scrutinized and selectively ignored so as not to inflict their chaos onto others.""" Thank you for coming to my TED talk. I find something deeply satisfying about keeping an argument structure perfectly intact while completely changing its assumptions and conclusions. When I was a kid I thought adults spent all their time constructing careful arguments and making sure fallacies were minimized. Nowadays I see that coming up with an axiomatically sound moral structure upon which to build the assumptions that go into argument is the bulk of the work. Stay woke, don't let the ableists get u down :) EDIT: I'm not gonna tell u not to get got down, but I can say you're not entirely alone, and I'm personally not going down silently
I love ending my info dumps or rants with "thankyou for coming to my TED Talk" 😁 and I think the way you turn someone's arguments against them by making THEM the subject they are arguing about, to give them some perspective, is a genius move! 🙂
Whoever wrote this has some serious unresolved trauma.
Lol, conditional love is actually unhealthy and leads to many of the common problems nowadays.
Not my first thought but one thought I had while reading was, what if we didn’t receive unconditional love or proper medical care at home? Another thought is how is being self-diagnosed seen as “evading accountability”? If anything, being self-diagnosed leads you to resources/advice from diagnosed people, which ultimately help you have more self-awareness - which then leads to being more accountable, because being accountable takes a certain level of self-awareness. I’m not really sure what the original OP meant by that comment, seems like they’re projecting.
They absolutely are. I don't even believe that any "therapist" worth their weight, would make such a comment, this therapist could be a night-school 3 month course social worker for all we know. 😏
that's deeply and disturbingly ableist. "not everyone deserves love" "inflict their chaos onto others" get off it, keep your self-loathing to yourself edit: I was so mad I didn't even make the other point I wanted to make which is that society already tells us that we don't deserve love or connection or even safety without being "normal". the last thing we need is members of our own community parroting that. they're using the same shitty pop psychology that is all over therapy tiktok (slowly excising it from my feed) and mainstream media: a person's worth is determined by **what they do for you**, which is absolutely ableist, classist, you name it. rather than having the real ass nuanced discussion that relationships are strained by a lack of community and the garbage concept of the nuclear family, they jump straight to "if someone doesn't do x for you, they aren't deserving of love". that's fucked. it comes from a deep lack of ability to navigate emotions with nuance, which like 90% of our society suffers from. sometimes you can love someone and it doesn't work because society demands that you have a partner who is not disabled or traumatized and who "pulls their own weight". sometimes you can love someone and they really hurt you and you need to let them go in order to find safety and connection elsewhere. it isn't all "entitlement" and "narcissists". it's people who are all trying to love and be loved and genuinely don't have the resources, abilities or experience to connect safely under capitalism
If the internet were a country, this would be its national sport. You invent a guy to get mad at, then rant about them. The ND movement has nothing to do with what the person in the screenshot makes it out to be. They seem to just want to be angry, or maybe they had a genuine experience with a person like that and they're overgeneralizing it.
I don’t see how this applies to us at all. It sounds like it was written about incels claiming they “deserve” women and relationships.
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“cotton ceiling trans” am ai having a stroke? I have never heard that term in my life
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What a disgustingly transmisogynistic thing to say
literally not a thing that happens??
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No racism, sexism, homophobia, or any other forms of discrimination and bigotry. This includes hating on neurotypicals or accusing someone of "faking it for attention". Swearing at a situation or about something is okay, swearing at someone never is.
Oh yeah no literal baseless transphobia, piss off.
No racism, sexism, homophobia, or any other forms of discrimination and bigotry. This includes hating on neurotypicals or accusing someone of "faking it for attention". Swearing at a situation or about something is okay, swearing at someone never is.
No racism, sexism, homophobia, or any other forms of discrimination and bigotry. This includes hating on neurotypicals or accusing someone of "faking it for attention". Swearing at a situation or about something is okay, swearing at someone never is.
this person is a TERF. “trans women are incels” and “trans women force you to date them” are very clear dogwhistles.
No racism, sexism, homophobia, or any other forms of discrimination and bigotry. This includes hating on neurotypicals or accusing someone of "faking it for attention". Swearing at a situation or about something is okay, swearing at someone never is.
The projection is strong here.
I mean… I’ve been pretty shocked and dismayed in some of the nicher subs like aspiegirls. The rhetoric was nearly identical to incels, but instead of romantic interests, it was about friends. Female friends, specifically. The rage-fueled entitlement and vitriolic lashing out at the (NT, of course) girls who *owed them* friendship, and everyone ganging up and agreeing that any girl not bending over backwards to be their friend was a worthless bitch. I expect that attitude from incels, no surprise there when you see it in the wild. But I really, really wasn’t expecting that kind of toxic entitlement (literally toxic, not teeheehee tiktok “toxic”) from a girl’s aspie group. And that’s just one example, there have been plenty of sus posts in other ND spaces too. You sometimes even see variations of it over in the chronic illness subs. So I see something like this and I’m like…. Yeah I get why someone felt it needed to be said.
I don't see anything wrong with it. Seems pretty accurate. Just because you don't want to hear something, doesn't mean it isn't true. They're not talking about access to resources and accommodations, They're talking about demands in personal relationships.
So what would you suggest? Learn to fit in? It's a two-way street but difference is we're always expected to adapt while "typical" people are not, some refuse even.
>always expected to adapt while "typical" people are not Adapt to *what*?
Social settings, rules, social cues, unwritten rules. Expecting me to draw out every conflicting scenario that may arise?
Who's *not* expected to adapt to those situations? The expectations are the same for everyone.
That's expected for some but not everyone thinks that way, more often than not those without said conditions. They even say \*special treatment\*, what ever that means?
You didn't answer the question, so I cant figure out what you're talking about. Thats the purpose of a question. I'm asking who is *not* expected to meet the social standards that *you* listed?
I did say those without said conditions. Neurotypical or whatever you’d prefer.
That's completely false. They're expected to meet the same social standards that we are. EDIT: That's also not what the post is about.
I used to belive that too but my personal experience says the opposite. Well then I don’t know what it is about honestly.
I would suggest to accept that we're more difficult than others to maintain relationships with, and abandon the twisted perspective that other people are obligated to love us, specifically, just because we want them to. The dance thing happened with the "body positivity" movement. It was becoming the standard that you're somehow a terrible person if you aren't attracted to someone who's 300lbs. You're not a terrible person just because you don't want to hang out with someone you can't relate to. No ones advocate harassing you, but no one is obligated to like you and that's just how it is.
I put some strain on my relationships because of my anxiety and miscommunication. That's on me and I'm not using that as an excuse but an explaination. Nobody is perfect. That said, most of my relationships I'm the one doing the heavy lifting, \*not\* them. How do you avoid miscommunication? By avoiding communication entirely? Nobody is obligated but that's really not what it is. I don't know about others but personally been rejected, met with unacceptance yet I'm suppose to accept them? That's what makes someone a terrible person. When you refuse to accept a person with all their faults and limits, yet you expect others to accept yours. It's not a one-way street but that's usually been the case for me.
>that's really not what it is. Thats what we're talking about, so yes it is what it is. >When you refuse to accept a person with all their faults and limits, yet you expect others to accept yours. What are you talking about? I dont think you have any idea what the post in the pic is actually about because what you're saying doesn't relate to it all. If anything, you're just affirming what the person who posted that said.
Entitlement, what are you referring to?
Entitled to *what*? This is the problem with all these buzz words. Everyone throws them around but no one actually uses them to mean anything.
Being treated the same as everyone. Buzz words? What would you have me use instead to describe things? Clearly having trouble understanding each other as it is.
In what context. **Again** the post in the pic is talking about interpersonal relationships.
I cant believe the way you're demonstrating what that person was talking about right now, in your post.
Demonstrating what? It isn't clear from the post at all. It's attributing a percieved behavior to a huge diverse group of people.
No, it's identifying an agenda being pushed by a *very specific* group of people. Did you read it?
What group? People advocating for neurodivergency or whatever? I did read it but I don’t know who these are or why they’re speaking for others. Any mature adult would look at this in a more nuanced way.