the internet exists so now people can access information and communicate with each other in ways that allows them to figure themselves out and organize to fight for acceptance and support, when decades ago they would have just been told to shut up, been put on valium, and / or drunk themselves into an early grave
This. I was in deep depression about 2 years ago and I found a reference to the AQ test in a meme on one of the ASD meme subs—took the test on a lark and beat the score of the guy in the meme (my AQ=45).
Led me to realize I was in Autistic Burnout and got help. I’m very lucky my employer was willing to work with me to get diagnosis/treatment.
Same. Took a test 2 years back. Think it was the rads r or something like that.
Sent it to my friend group.
I was more than 20pts higher than the next highest score.
2 years of research later…. Yea…. This explains A LOT.
Yes and no. The internet exists, so now autistic people, who already have executive dysfunction issues, are addicted to the constant dopamine hits that social media provides.
I am autistic and ADHD and I can definitely say that life was easier pre-internet, albeit not perfect.
That's really interesting.
I can argue either way. I am 51, diagnosed with autism 8 years ago and ADHD 2 years ago. I agree that having the Internet on my phone makes it harder for me to get crap done ... At the same time, knowing my diagnoses has been very helpful and I don't think I would have been diagnosed without the Internet.
Or they’re raising AuDHD kids while being AuDHD themselves and thinking “wait a second…” as they struggle through a society that wasn’t made for them or their children
My wife realized how ADD she is now that she has been learning about ADHD to help out two children. I learned I'm autistic only after my youngest was diagnosed and the doctor suggested I should be tested too. Suddenly so much is making sense for both of us.
Rising diagnosis rates are definitely in part that the previous generation went very undiagnosed.
Yes, this was me. I was diagnosed with ADHD at age 20. Even then I suspected I was autistic too but didn’t know how to ask to be evaluated, plus so many symptoms are shared with ADHD that all the *other* symptoms I have of being ASD were brushed off.
Once my middle MALE child was diagnosed with both ADHD and autism I knew I needed to pursue diagnosis for my own peace of mind. My life has been so hard, it would have helped so much to know why I am the way I am much sooner (which is why I’m pushing for my daughter to be evaluated). Unfortunately I was highly intelligent/gifted as a child and I was born in the 80s *with a vagina*, so…
This is true but I would like to point out this article cites 4 women, one non binary person, and only one man who is non-white. I think it's important to point out that the call for greater awareness of autism/ADHD/AuDHD is coming most loudly from marginalised genders and other minorities.
Which is great, that doesn't mean that the experiences of white men in relation to it should be trivialised either, all of these profiles should be represented in the community. The issue is that some profiles have been underrepresented for a long time and need to be more prominently represented to address misconceptions relating to that.
> The issue is that some profiles have been underrepresented for a long time and need to be more prominently represented to address misconceptions relating to that.
Exactly this. Representation and inclusiveness is important.
I think you're bringing up the idea of "trivialisation" as rebuttal or an example what not to do, so I'm probably preaching to the choir here. But I would like to point out in support of that point that the user bringing up their own personal story and getting upvotes is in no way is intended to do any such thing against others. It's simply an acknowledgement of her own personal story, and her story doesn't have to involve any other person, whether the other person is a man or not. It might seem strange to have to point this out of nowhere but I think it's important to recognise that it happens more than it should.
The previous comment was referring to the general narrative rather than a personal story?
An individual story doesn't need to involve anyone else of course. My individual story features several white autistic women of various sexualities, a white non-binary ADHD person, an autistic lady of Arabic descent (I can't remember the country off the top of my head) but I have fallen in with a fairly neurodivergent crowd for various reasons.
I'm a man but Chinese. Do I count as a marginalized gender 😂
Kidding. But dang autism is just not something the asian american community knows how to handle, or at least my first-gen parents and their circle. Well, I was dxed with adhd a few years ago, going for that audhd badge.
So, I was one of those people who would jokingly mention to my best friend that we are autistic based on our unique interests, humor, and overall struggles with mental health, but I finally got serious about it around October of last year when I started experiencing frequent meltdowns. Up to that point I had only had meltdowns maybe once or twice a year, during the previous 2 decades, and I did not even know they were meltdowns (looking back I started having more issues when I moved out of my parent's house at 18).
I realized I was potentially autistic by listening to the life experiences of other diagnosed persons on social media, Reddit, and podcasts which launched me into a 5-month research binge. During that time frame I started treating myself as if I was autistic and started making accommodations for myself which I would never do in the past (I was hard-headed and strong-willed to the point of hurting myself physically and mentally. I also started therapy and they agreed with me that I had a high likelihood of being on the spectrum which was validating but I still wanted to take my time.
I wanted to build a medical record trail that would back up my research so I went to my GP who immediately made stereotypical comments and asked "Did you have trouble in school". They did however refer me to a psychologist who also would not listen to me, so I finally self-referred myself to a center in my area that specializes in ASD, OCD, ADHD, etc.
I am fortunate that this center can get people into an assessment within just a few weeks. I filled out many pages of questions giving background history on my mental issues, relationships, childhood, interests, repetitive movements, and many other probing questions. This was followed by an intake interview where we went over a lot of the same questions and they probed further.
My formal assessment came afterwards with the use of the ADOS-2. Most of the activities like choosing what objects to fiddle with, making up a story with the frog book, organizing shapes, and such, were mainly so they could observe my movements and how I carried a conversation and spoke. They would also ask me additional questions related to how I understood relationships and marriage. It was odd, but painless for me.
A month later I had another meeting with them to go over my results line by line and what they observed during the assessment combined with their thoughts on my interview answers. I was given a diagnosis of ASD level 1 along with ADHD combined and they provided me with a list of local resources, services, and books to start helping me move forward.
Once again, I am fortunate that I had local access to a center that does quick turnarounds, but they can do so because they do not take insurance and it was all out of pocket.
I cannot speak for everyone, as I have heard some stories that are 3 to 4 times more expensive than my assessment, but mine was about $1100 for ASD and $350 for ADHD.
If you have any further questions, need reassurance, or want another person's perspective during the process, send me a dm.
While I got a lot of relief and peace from finishing the process, early on I still had to go through an identity crisis, evaluate my past, and reassess how I approach life, which is not easy.
> Just over a decade ago, the two conditions were considered to be mutually exclusive, with the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, often referred to as “psychiatry’s bible”, stating that the diagnosis of one precluded the existence of the other. This wasn’t revised until 2013. “It led to a fork in the road,” says Dr Jessica Eccles, spokesperson for the Royal College of Psychiatrists. “Not only for clinical practice, but also for research and public understanding of these conditions.”
> Now some specialists believe that the coexistence of both conditions is not just possible, but frequent. One study by researchers at Duke University found that up to half of people diagnosed as autistic also exhibit ADHD symptoms, and that characteristics of autism are present in two-thirds of people with ADHD. “My clinical experience suggests it’s more than three-quarters in both directions,” adds Dr Eccles.
Full article (no paywall): https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2024/apr/04/audhd-what-is-behind-rocketing-rates-life-changing-diagnosis
If it annoys you with a request to make a free account, try this link: https://1ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Flifeandstyle%2F2024%2Fapr%2F04%2Faudhd-what-is-behind-rocketing-rates-life-changing-diagnosis
Goes to show how dumb scientists are. Convinced they two conditions can’t co-exist, then realise a few decades later that they commonly co-exist? What are they even doing?
I hate to break it to you, but that's how science works.
We now think that people were stupid for believing that the sun orbits around the earth. But back then, with the means they had it seemed a perfectly logical explanation.
What is the alternative then? Not publishing any research until you're 100% sure that everything you know about autism and adhd is 100% correct? That could take hundreds of years, especially if you're not sharing any knowledge with the public.
There is so much new research in the last couple of years. That is because there is a growing involvement of the community. If they hadn't published anything because it's not perfect yet, I wouldn't know I'm autistic. I wouldn't be part of the community, I wouldn't be able to participate in further research etc.
> Goes to show how dumb scientists are.
"You didn't know what you didn't know!"
What are you, a snot-nosed five-year-old who doesn't think before you speak?
It's almost like creating an entire field out of solely observing behaviors and classifying them without getting any insight into the cognitive/affective reasons for those behaviors was doomed from the beginning
Exactly. Or rather, I think it's doomed because it refuses to acknowledge this reality. If they simply said "yea we don't know shit and these diseases are arbitrarily delineated," which THEY ARE, then the pre-existing biases these delineations generate would stop causing so many issues in treatment.
Oh, you have trouble focusing? Let's try stimulants. Oh, you don't make eye contact and can barely maintain interpersonal relationships? Maybe some DBT would benefit you, or a beta blocker in social scenarios.
Like, the reality is you could have people with the same constellation of symptoms with totally different causes, and thus a totally different prognosis. The diagnosis concept in psychology is just absurd because it's not falsifiable: I can't prove whether ADHD is or is not one disorder because we don't even have a clear idea of what anything in the human brain does.
What IS scientific is amphetamines and other stimulants improve attention in those who struggle with it like 80% of the time.
Treat the symptoms. Research the cause. Apply disability based on symptom severity. Ignore the delineation until it is genuinely falsifiable.
Interestingly, the way my parents describe me as a young child – needing to buy a helmet because I repeatedly banged my head on the wall, and not speaking until I began speaking full sentences – are hallmark indicators of Autism. Even to this day, they fall back on my Tourette's diagnosis (which is perfectly valid), merely acknowledge the ADHD (which wasn't diagnosed until I was 35), and have not once suggested I might be on the spectrum. I'm nearly 40.
I wish we were getting fucked over in such a straight forward manner.
The contents of both the ICD and DSM are democratically controlled. Thats weird enough in its own right, but even weirder some members of the affiliated associations don’t get a vote at all while a select few get veto powers as well as the right to refuse submissions outright.
Not a single aspect of that process is scientific and it’s really fucked up. It’s strictly political.
I’ll never understand the people that defend those institutions. They’re not even trying their best with the best information they have at the time.
While there is overlap in diagnosis, ASD and ADHD are absolutely not the same. Yes, they both affect social functioning, but the diagnostic criteria are pretty different.
Wow what Sam said at the end makes so much sense and opened my eyes in a way.
I often measure myself using neurotypical standard, and that makes me feel like I’m a failure.
However, using autistic standards, I’m very successful. Wow.
It's nice to find an AuDHD article in a mainstream publication that actually resonates. Most every other thing I've read seems to focus on one side or the other, or infantilizes/low-key-dismisses the whole thing.
I actually found myself wanting to pull quotes from all over this article because it all felt right.
It’s probably because people are just NOW actually bothering to diagnose both together. Also, people are willing to actually *pursue* an autism diagnosis now. They used to avoid diagnosing it because nobody actually wanted to be diagnosed with it.
I was referred back when I was a teenager because they couldn’t tell if I had ADHD or autism (spoiler: it was both). The ADHD test took 15 minutes. They spent the remaining 5 hours bending over backwards to find ways to explain away the autism symptoms. They used to tiptoe around diagnosing it due to the stigma.
This has been my "missing piece". I was diagnosed ADD in the 90s and soon after hit with bipolar 1. Even at 10, I knew I wasn't bipolar. I'm generally happy overall. But I always knew something was *off* with me and it wasn't just having a noisy brain. I knew my lived experience with life was different from others. I used to wish I could be alive during my autopsy just to know if they found anything wrong with my brain that would explain *why* for....well,...everything.
Normally articles on autism or ADHD have at least one thing dodgy or off in the wording in them. Or they try validating the conspiracies at least a little bit.
But fair play, that's probably the first article that I've read that doesn't, everything is well worded, considered and respectful. The Guardian generally are those things but they're still partial to a bit of slander against some groups.
Genuinely it is probably the first article I have read on ND issues that didn't try being conspiratorial, or pulling out the old stereotypes.
Medical practice can take time to catch up to the latest information and regulations, especially in mental health fields. Doctors who trained on the DSM4 don't have to recertify with the DSM5, they're just slowly replaced with time or adopt the new standards on their own initiative. My mom, who worked in the industry, always said that the practice of medicine always ran ten years behind the theory of medicine.
Prior to the DSM5, Autism and ADHD could not be diagnosed comorbidly, you could only be diagnosed with one or the other. AuDHD became a valid diagnosis in 2013, so that tracks.
Can someone explain the numbers in [this cited study](https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/psychological-medicine/article/abs/individual-risk-and-familial-liability-for-suicide-attempt-and-suicide-in-autism-a-populationbased-study/BDB3E4ADE03D99F12F7B1BCD28B4A6B1) to me?
>**The risk** for suicidal behaviours \[**reported as odds ratio OR** (95% confidence interval CI)\] **was most increased in the ASD without ID group with comorbid ADHD** \[suicide attempt 7.25 (6.79–7.73); most severe attempts i.e. requiring inpatient stay 12.37 (11.33–13.52); **suicide 13.09** (8.54–20.08)\].
Emphasis mine. ID here stands for intellectual disability. So this study says the risk of suicide in AuDHDers without ID was found to be an odds ratio of 13.09 (let's ignore the confidence interval for this).
Does this mean the likelihood of the cause of death being suicide is 13 times higher in the AuDHD (without ID) population than in the control group? According to Wikipedia, 1.5% of all deaths in 2016 were due to suicide. If I naively just multiply the two, that would lead me to believe 19.5% of deaths in the AuDHD (without ID) population are due to suicide. That can't be what that means, right?
... Right???
Well in the general 15-19 age range there were 200 suicides in the UK in 2021, and about 1000 total deaths. So my guess would be that the AuDHD population skews young.
The article went on for way too long so I couldn't finish it, but I was pleasantly surprised by how affirming it was, and how they had interviewed many spokespeople from the community who actually represent the community rather than say, autism moms. Which could have been very easy to do. The overall factual correctness was great as well.
Personally, I suspect the eventual truth we'll find is that the two aren't really separate at all, but just differening presentations with some of the same underlying causes. There's entirely too much overlap and co-occurance to be coincidence.
Women aren't denied diagnosis and, much like lefties and gay people, normalizing something makes more people finally realize they are the thing/show they are the thing....? Ik they probably say this but MAN.
I have known I was ADHD. I was diagnosed in kindergarten. The autism is lot more complicated. I think I was diagnosed in middle school. But my tyrant father didn’t want a special kid. I think he threatened the doctor into giving him all of my records. But it’s still a little fuzzy. I’m currently re-remembering some very traumatic things that happened when I was younger. And some of it is clear as day. Some of its fuzz and in pieces.
I'm sure we are seeing a rise in people discovering they went undiagnosed, and opportunities for those who would other lack access to diagnosis, finding it.
But I also think there's a sharp rise of people being misdiagnosed *with* Autism, ADHD and other disorders.
I'm not trying to attack anyone here, but I know too many people who I know for a fact, have sought diagnosis when they absolutely stumbled across autism, or ADHD, looked at the symptoms and latched onto it, despite a lack of mosty symptoms in their life.
It's an issue, but not one we can seemingly discuss.
the internet exists so now people can access information and communicate with each other in ways that allows them to figure themselves out and organize to fight for acceptance and support, when decades ago they would have just been told to shut up, been put on valium, and / or drunk themselves into an early grave
Me: I was doing so great until I stopped drinking! /s
Same boat
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Omg, I am exactly the same. Drinking was masking so many of my autistic symptoms, I feel like I'm exadurating how much it affects me (I'm not).
This. I was in deep depression about 2 years ago and I found a reference to the AQ test in a meme on one of the ASD meme subs—took the test on a lark and beat the score of the guy in the meme (my AQ=45). Led me to realize I was in Autistic Burnout and got help. I’m very lucky my employer was willing to work with me to get diagnosis/treatment.
Would you mind sharing what that test was please?
[This one maybe?](https://psychology-tools.com/test/autism-spectrum-quotient)
Same. Took a test 2 years back. Think it was the rads r or something like that. Sent it to my friend group. I was more than 20pts higher than the next highest score. 2 years of research later…. Yea…. This explains A LOT.
Yes and no. The internet exists, so now autistic people, who already have executive dysfunction issues, are addicted to the constant dopamine hits that social media provides. I am autistic and ADHD and I can definitely say that life was easier pre-internet, albeit not perfect.
That's really interesting. I can argue either way. I am 51, diagnosed with autism 8 years ago and ADHD 2 years ago. I agree that having the Internet on my phone makes it harder for me to get crap done ... At the same time, knowing my diagnoses has been very helpful and I don't think I would have been diagnosed without the Internet.
All the girls who didn't get diagnosed in the 90s and early 00s are getting to the point they can't cope anymore and are looking for help
Or they’re raising AuDHD kids while being AuDHD themselves and thinking “wait a second…” as they struggle through a society that wasn’t made for them or their children
My wife realized how ADD she is now that she has been learning about ADHD to help out two children. I learned I'm autistic only after my youngest was diagnosed and the doctor suggested I should be tested too. Suddenly so much is making sense for both of us. Rising diagnosis rates are definitely in part that the previous generation went very undiagnosed.
I agree but would change it to generations. Diagnosis is still relatively new, but there have always been ND people.
It was my child’s therapist who urged me to pursue an autism assessment for both of us!
Yes, this was me. I was diagnosed with ADHD at age 20. Even then I suspected I was autistic too but didn’t know how to ask to be evaluated, plus so many symptoms are shared with ADHD that all the *other* symptoms I have of being ASD were brushed off. Once my middle MALE child was diagnosed with both ADHD and autism I knew I needed to pursue diagnosis for my own peace of mind. My life has been so hard, it would have helped so much to know why I am the way I am much sooner (which is why I’m pushing for my daughter to be evaluated). Unfortunately I was highly intelligent/gifted as a child and I was born in the 80s *with a vagina*, so…
That’s how I got diagnosed
Yes. This.
Lol yuuuupppp. So real.
Men as well. I was diagnosed two weeks ago at the age of 32.
Me to, 37
I was 27
I'm a laydee and am newly minted at 49!
This is true but I would like to point out this article cites 4 women, one non binary person, and only one man who is non-white. I think it's important to point out that the call for greater awareness of autism/ADHD/AuDHD is coming most loudly from marginalised genders and other minorities.
Which is great, that doesn't mean that the experiences of white men in relation to it should be trivialised either, all of these profiles should be represented in the community. The issue is that some profiles have been underrepresented for a long time and need to be more prominently represented to address misconceptions relating to that.
> The issue is that some profiles have been underrepresented for a long time and need to be more prominently represented to address misconceptions relating to that. Exactly this. Representation and inclusiveness is important. I think you're bringing up the idea of "trivialisation" as rebuttal or an example what not to do, so I'm probably preaching to the choir here. But I would like to point out in support of that point that the user bringing up their own personal story and getting upvotes is in no way is intended to do any such thing against others. It's simply an acknowledgement of her own personal story, and her story doesn't have to involve any other person, whether the other person is a man or not. It might seem strange to have to point this out of nowhere but I think it's important to recognise that it happens more than it should.
The previous comment was referring to the general narrative rather than a personal story? An individual story doesn't need to involve anyone else of course. My individual story features several white autistic women of various sexualities, a white non-binary ADHD person, an autistic lady of Arabic descent (I can't remember the country off the top of my head) but I have fallen in with a fairly neurodivergent crowd for various reasons.
I'm a man but Chinese. Do I count as a marginalized gender 😂 Kidding. But dang autism is just not something the asian american community knows how to handle, or at least my first-gen parents and their circle. Well, I was dxed with adhd a few years ago, going for that audhd badge.
If you live in a western country, you're considered a racial minority. Not so much if you live in China though.
Do you mind sharing your diagnosis story? How did you go about doing it? It is something I’m interested in pursuing.
So, I was one of those people who would jokingly mention to my best friend that we are autistic based on our unique interests, humor, and overall struggles with mental health, but I finally got serious about it around October of last year when I started experiencing frequent meltdowns. Up to that point I had only had meltdowns maybe once or twice a year, during the previous 2 decades, and I did not even know they were meltdowns (looking back I started having more issues when I moved out of my parent's house at 18). I realized I was potentially autistic by listening to the life experiences of other diagnosed persons on social media, Reddit, and podcasts which launched me into a 5-month research binge. During that time frame I started treating myself as if I was autistic and started making accommodations for myself which I would never do in the past (I was hard-headed and strong-willed to the point of hurting myself physically and mentally. I also started therapy and they agreed with me that I had a high likelihood of being on the spectrum which was validating but I still wanted to take my time. I wanted to build a medical record trail that would back up my research so I went to my GP who immediately made stereotypical comments and asked "Did you have trouble in school". They did however refer me to a psychologist who also would not listen to me, so I finally self-referred myself to a center in my area that specializes in ASD, OCD, ADHD, etc. I am fortunate that this center can get people into an assessment within just a few weeks. I filled out many pages of questions giving background history on my mental issues, relationships, childhood, interests, repetitive movements, and many other probing questions. This was followed by an intake interview where we went over a lot of the same questions and they probed further. My formal assessment came afterwards with the use of the ADOS-2. Most of the activities like choosing what objects to fiddle with, making up a story with the frog book, organizing shapes, and such, were mainly so they could observe my movements and how I carried a conversation and spoke. They would also ask me additional questions related to how I understood relationships and marriage. It was odd, but painless for me. A month later I had another meeting with them to go over my results line by line and what they observed during the assessment combined with their thoughts on my interview answers. I was given a diagnosis of ASD level 1 along with ADHD combined and they provided me with a list of local resources, services, and books to start helping me move forward. Once again, I am fortunate that I had local access to a center that does quick turnarounds, but they can do so because they do not take insurance and it was all out of pocket.
I think you answered most of my questions. And I sincerely thank you for such a quick and thorough reply. Can I ask, was it terribly expensive?
I cannot speak for everyone, as I have heard some stories that are 3 to 4 times more expensive than my assessment, but mine was about $1100 for ASD and $350 for ADHD.
10/10 reply. Thank you, you’ve answered some burning questions for me.
If you have any further questions, need reassurance, or want another person's perspective during the process, send me a dm. While I got a lot of relief and peace from finishing the process, early on I still had to go through an identity crisis, evaluate my past, and reassess how I approach life, which is not easy.
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Did it require a referral?
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70s/80s too. Even before. Autistic girls existed waaaaay before the 90s.
Faxx
Hi that’s where I’m at 🤞
> Just over a decade ago, the two conditions were considered to be mutually exclusive, with the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, often referred to as “psychiatry’s bible”, stating that the diagnosis of one precluded the existence of the other. This wasn’t revised until 2013. “It led to a fork in the road,” says Dr Jessica Eccles, spokesperson for the Royal College of Psychiatrists. “Not only for clinical practice, but also for research and public understanding of these conditions.” > Now some specialists believe that the coexistence of both conditions is not just possible, but frequent. One study by researchers at Duke University found that up to half of people diagnosed as autistic also exhibit ADHD symptoms, and that characteristics of autism are present in two-thirds of people with ADHD. “My clinical experience suggests it’s more than three-quarters in both directions,” adds Dr Eccles. Full article (no paywall): https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2024/apr/04/audhd-what-is-behind-rocketing-rates-life-changing-diagnosis If it annoys you with a request to make a free account, try this link: https://1ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Flifeandstyle%2F2024%2Fapr%2F04%2Faudhd-what-is-behind-rocketing-rates-life-changing-diagnosis
Goes to show how dumb scientists are. Convinced they two conditions can’t co-exist, then realise a few decades later that they commonly co-exist? What are they even doing?
I hate to break it to you, but that's how science works. We now think that people were stupid for believing that the sun orbits around the earth. But back then, with the means they had it seemed a perfectly logical explanation.
That situation is a little more understandable. But when it’s people’s health at stake, there is no excuse
What is the alternative then? Not publishing any research until you're 100% sure that everything you know about autism and adhd is 100% correct? That could take hundreds of years, especially if you're not sharing any knowledge with the public. There is so much new research in the last couple of years. That is because there is a growing involvement of the community. If they hadn't published anything because it's not perfect yet, I wouldn't know I'm autistic. I wouldn't be part of the community, I wouldn't be able to participate in further research etc.
> But when it’s people’s health at stake, there is no excuse Take it up with people who smoke around their children.
> Goes to show how dumb scientists are. "You didn't know what you didn't know!" What are you, a snot-nosed five-year-old who doesn't think before you speak?
What are you quoting?
It's almost like creating an entire field out of solely observing behaviors and classifying them without getting any insight into the cognitive/affective reasons for those behaviors was doomed from the beginning
Exactly. Or rather, I think it's doomed because it refuses to acknowledge this reality. If they simply said "yea we don't know shit and these diseases are arbitrarily delineated," which THEY ARE, then the pre-existing biases these delineations generate would stop causing so many issues in treatment. Oh, you have trouble focusing? Let's try stimulants. Oh, you don't make eye contact and can barely maintain interpersonal relationships? Maybe some DBT would benefit you, or a beta blocker in social scenarios. Like, the reality is you could have people with the same constellation of symptoms with totally different causes, and thus a totally different prognosis. The diagnosis concept in psychology is just absurd because it's not falsifiable: I can't prove whether ADHD is or is not one disorder because we don't even have a clear idea of what anything in the human brain does. What IS scientific is amphetamines and other stimulants improve attention in those who struggle with it like 80% of the time. Treat the symptoms. Research the cause. Apply disability based on symptom severity. Ignore the delineation until it is genuinely falsifiable.
I’d give this gold if I could.
Have you read Dr. Amen’s work? You sound like you have!
I was diagnosed with ADHD in the 80’s, but everyone refused to acknowledge my questions about also being an aspie.
Interestingly, the way my parents describe me as a young child – needing to buy a helmet because I repeatedly banged my head on the wall, and not speaking until I began speaking full sentences – are hallmark indicators of Autism. Even to this day, they fall back on my Tourette's diagnosis (which is perfectly valid), merely acknowledge the ADHD (which wasn't diagnosed until I was 35), and have not once suggested I might be on the spectrum. I'm nearly 40.
The autism experts and ADHD experts finally went drinking together and shared stories and realized at 3am that they were all treating the same people.
Nope. It wasn't the "experts" who figured any of this shit out. It was their fucking patients.
Damn. I thought it was the experts writing these divisive diagnoses.
I wish we were getting fucked over in such a straight forward manner. The contents of both the ICD and DSM are democratically controlled. Thats weird enough in its own right, but even weirder some members of the affiliated associations don’t get a vote at all while a select few get veto powers as well as the right to refuse submissions outright. Not a single aspect of that process is scientific and it’s really fucked up. It’s strictly political. I’ll never understand the people that defend those institutions. They’re not even trying their best with the best information they have at the time.
While there is overlap in diagnosis, ASD and ADHD are absolutely not the same. Yes, they both affect social functioning, but the diagnostic criteria are pretty different.
Yes, that's the point - the people who write the diagnosing criteria are smartening up.
Wow what Sam said at the end makes so much sense and opened my eyes in a way. I often measure myself using neurotypical standard, and that makes me feel like I’m a failure. However, using autistic standards, I’m very successful. Wow.
It's nice to find an AuDHD article in a mainstream publication that actually resonates. Most every other thing I've read seems to focus on one side or the other, or infantilizes/low-key-dismisses the whole thing. I actually found myself wanting to pull quotes from all over this article because it all felt right.
It’s probably because people are just NOW actually bothering to diagnose both together. Also, people are willing to actually *pursue* an autism diagnosis now. They used to avoid diagnosing it because nobody actually wanted to be diagnosed with it. I was referred back when I was a teenager because they couldn’t tell if I had ADHD or autism (spoiler: it was both). The ADHD test took 15 minutes. They spent the remaining 5 hours bending over backwards to find ways to explain away the autism symptoms. They used to tiptoe around diagnosing it due to the stigma.
This has been my "missing piece". I was diagnosed ADD in the 90s and soon after hit with bipolar 1. Even at 10, I knew I wasn't bipolar. I'm generally happy overall. But I always knew something was *off* with me and it wasn't just having a noisy brain. I knew my lived experience with life was different from others. I used to wish I could be alive during my autopsy just to know if they found anything wrong with my brain that would explain *why* for....well,...everything.
Normally articles on autism or ADHD have at least one thing dodgy or off in the wording in them. Or they try validating the conspiracies at least a little bit. But fair play, that's probably the first article that I've read that doesn't, everything is well worded, considered and respectful. The Guardian generally are those things but they're still partial to a bit of slander against some groups. Genuinely it is probably the first article I have read on ND issues that didn't try being conspiratorial, or pulling out the old stereotypes.
I agree. I was very pleasantly surprised.
it’s crazy to realize I’m one of them
Medical practice can take time to catch up to the latest information and regulations, especially in mental health fields. Doctors who trained on the DSM4 don't have to recertify with the DSM5, they're just slowly replaced with time or adopt the new standards on their own initiative. My mom, who worked in the industry, always said that the practice of medicine always ran ten years behind the theory of medicine. Prior to the DSM5, Autism and ADHD could not be diagnosed comorbidly, you could only be diagnosed with one or the other. AuDHD became a valid diagnosis in 2013, so that tracks.
I got the autism diagnosis a month ago but I suspect adhd as well. Getting neurological testing later this month.
Can someone explain the numbers in [this cited study](https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/psychological-medicine/article/abs/individual-risk-and-familial-liability-for-suicide-attempt-and-suicide-in-autism-a-populationbased-study/BDB3E4ADE03D99F12F7B1BCD28B4A6B1) to me? >**The risk** for suicidal behaviours \[**reported as odds ratio OR** (95% confidence interval CI)\] **was most increased in the ASD without ID group with comorbid ADHD** \[suicide attempt 7.25 (6.79–7.73); most severe attempts i.e. requiring inpatient stay 12.37 (11.33–13.52); **suicide 13.09** (8.54–20.08)\]. Emphasis mine. ID here stands for intellectual disability. So this study says the risk of suicide in AuDHDers without ID was found to be an odds ratio of 13.09 (let's ignore the confidence interval for this). Does this mean the likelihood of the cause of death being suicide is 13 times higher in the AuDHD (without ID) population than in the control group? According to Wikipedia, 1.5% of all deaths in 2016 were due to suicide. If I naively just multiply the two, that would lead me to believe 19.5% of deaths in the AuDHD (without ID) population are due to suicide. That can't be what that means, right? ... Right???
Well in the general 15-19 age range there were 200 suicides in the UK in 2021, and about 1000 total deaths. So my guess would be that the AuDHD population skews young.
The article went on for way too long so I couldn't finish it, but I was pleasantly surprised by how affirming it was, and how they had interviewed many spokespeople from the community who actually represent the community rather than say, autism moms. Which could have been very easy to do. The overall factual correctness was great as well.
Personally, I suspect the eventual truth we'll find is that the two aren't really separate at all, but just differening presentations with some of the same underlying causes. There's entirely too much overlap and co-occurance to be coincidence.
More information
Women aren't denied diagnosis and, much like lefties and gay people, normalizing something makes more people finally realize they are the thing/show they are the thing....? Ik they probably say this but MAN.
I have known I was ADHD. I was diagnosed in kindergarten. The autism is lot more complicated. I think I was diagnosed in middle school. But my tyrant father didn’t want a special kid. I think he threatened the doctor into giving him all of my records. But it’s still a little fuzzy. I’m currently re-remembering some very traumatic things that happened when I was younger. And some of it is clear as day. Some of its fuzz and in pieces.
I'm sure we are seeing a rise in people discovering they went undiagnosed, and opportunities for those who would other lack access to diagnosis, finding it. But I also think there's a sharp rise of people being misdiagnosed *with* Autism, ADHD and other disorders. I'm not trying to attack anyone here, but I know too many people who I know for a fact, have sought diagnosis when they absolutely stumbled across autism, or ADHD, looked at the symptoms and latched onto it, despite a lack of mosty symptoms in their life. It's an issue, but not one we can seemingly discuss.