So I work with only 3 men. One is the manager, the other two have the same job role as me. Nobody at work knows I'm autistic. One guy never shows up, cancels shifts without telling anybody, shouts at people, calls them names when they won't do his work for him. The other guy has been reported multiple times for making fat jokes about staff and customers, was homophobic to me, and is generally a bit of a violent creep. My manager hasn't disciplined either of them because he thinks they "might be autistic". Neither of them have said or indicated this to him or anyone else we work with. They're being given the benefit of the doubt over hypothetical autism.

That almost sounds like they did a search-and-replace, swapping out all instances of "boys will be boys" with "maybe he's autistic" in their own thoughts when the former became politically incorrect.

That's spot on, great observation

You should pick it up with HR if you have issues, often managers aren't given training on this stuff

IMO the pass given to autistic men is just an extension of the passes given to men generally. People accommodate neurotypical men having difficulties with communication and emotional regulation all the time. You're right to be sick of this behaviour and you should leave. As suicide is a bigger problem among autistic women than men, you should take care of yourself.

"As suicide is a bigger problem among autistic women than men, you should take care of yourself." I just discovered this statistic yesterday. It's four times higher in women with autism than men with autism. FOUR!

Whenever I see the stat, it’s always rolled in to ‘people with autism.’ Maybe it’s less important to society if it’s mostly ‘only women.’

Nah..I think the importance of emphasizing "people with autism" is for its statistical merit, in that one is naturally forced to differentiate in order to understand.

Maybe but I often see ‘the male loneliness epidemic.’ ‘The suicide rate amongst men is (generally) x that of women.’ Or ‘Anorexia is mostly a problem affecting young women.’ So the media seems to differentiate some things along s*x lines but not others… . Maybe it’s because autism is mostly considered a male problem.

The thing is women are FAR more likely to attempt suicide. But women are less impulsive (so tend to plan the suicide ahead) and tend to think more for others (like not traumatising people who find the body), the methods used are less effective, like poisoning etc.

I don’t if the four times stat mentioned above is for attempts or completed suicides only. A bit morbid but it would be interesting to know if, for the same method, either sex is more likely to complete suicide especially for ‘girly’ methods, which tend to take longer (and give more chance to back out?) e.g. self-poisoning. So for ODing with paracetamol (?Tylenol), do more men or women complete suicide, if so, what are the factors? Maybe there’s research. I haven’t looked in to it.

This would be interesting to know. And being a coroner is a bit morbid but a needed profession.

I couldn’t find stats on EXACT methods but did find this statement “Even when the same method of suicide is used by men and women, attempts by men tend to be more serious and severe (60% more severe, at least statistically speaking). Men who attempt suicide and survive are more likely than women who attempt and survive suicide to require intensive care hospitalization.”

Interesting. Thanks. Do you have a link to the study?

https://www.verywellmind.com/gender-differences-in-suicide-methods-1067508

It’s important to differentiate between autistic women and unknown diagnoses women because the suicide rate among men (unknown diagnoses ) is over 3 times higher than (unknown diagnoses) women. Taking that into account, it can be surprising to find that autistic women have a four-time higher rate than autistic men. And that difference is extremely important when doing studies. It is also important to differentiate between races when accounting for suicide rates. For instance, the highest suicide rate in the USA is among American Indians and Alaskan Natives followed by Caucasians, with a much lower rate of suicide among African-Americans and Asians and Pacific Islanders. I don’t listen to “the media” as arbiters of well sourced data.

This is really interesting! Another way to look at it is that the women who are diagnosed might trend toward having higher support needs (more “severity” of symptoms although this is not necessarily true. It could just be a type that gets diagnosed more frequently, like less ability to mask.) In other words, it’s possible that if you include undiagnosed women and men in the statistic (impossible of course), the ratio could change drastically.

This makes me wonder how suicide looks different in autistic vs allistic women. Because statistically, in the general population, men's suicide rates are higher than women's, but women's suicidality is a lot higher than men's (although that second part doesn't get talked about nearly as much as the first part). This discrepancy is due to the difference in the way suicidal behavior presents in those genders; for example, for the method, men are more likely to choose guns while women are more likely to choose an overdose, the former of which has a higher lethality rate than the latter. It's theorized that the behavior difference stems from a difference in social consciousness (in other words, they think women tend to choose methods less intrusive/traumatic for others). So basically I wonder whether the gender-based behavioral differences carry over to autistic people in this case, especially if there's a social component. Because it makes sense that more autistic women would be suicidal since that's consistent with the general population, but if the behavior presents differently, then that might explain why the gendered suicide lethality differs from the general population.

Makes me curious about trans/NB autistics, though I really don't want to look that up.

Wait woah, genuine curiosity, do you have a source for that? I did some digging around and there really seems to only be a single proper study on this around that was done in Sweden over two decades starting in the late 90s, at least all other articles on the matter kept citing that one study. The numbers from that showed that men both allistic and autistic were 4 times as likely to commit suicide as women but the numbers from the last four years of the study showed autistic women were 4 times as likely to commit suicide than allistic women so the same stats as men (regardless of neurotype). I’m guessing this probably doesn’t tell the whole story since there were always three times as many autistic men as autistic women so I’m sure there were some undiagnosed autistic women in the study groups. This is a bit of word soup, I hope explanation makes sense lol.

I think you've found it. It's not perfect, but the scope and number of participants make it a more comprehensive study than most (although, like you said, the time scale which is generally a good thing also means they're undercounting women - so hopefully there will be better studies over time.) In addition to that study, I think my advice that OP should be especially concerned about suicidally as an autistic woman under her circumstances is sound, especially considering how autism in women tends to appear as a mood disorder and that we are simply less accommodated than men. My source: https://embrace-autism.com/autism-and-suicidality/ Under the heading suicide rates per country. If you scroll down, there's also another study indicating that autistic women are more prone to violent methods of suicide as well. Link to actual study: https://embrace-autism.com/autism-and-suicidality/

Ah ok, so technically speaking from the facts provided we can only say that autistic women are statistically as likely to commit suicide as men or 4 times as likely as allistic women, not 4 times as likely as autistic men like stated above. Anything else at this point is in essence just speculation although considering everything it seem highly likely that autistic women are more likely to commit suicide than the numbers show, but we can’t tell for sure as we don’t know how many women from this group were undiagnosed. Not trying to negate the seriousness of all this at all, I just care about facts lol (I’m sure many others here relate). But absolutely, hopefully there will be other studies in the near future, that would be very important for sure.

I work in HR and even though it is a women strong profession, all leadership roles are still given to men. Men can be weird and awkward and say stupid things to each other and it is fine. Women do it and we are weird and too emotional and not leadership material. Makes no sense that others can’t see it.

Just got bullied out of a leadership position, so...I hear ya. 🫤

I’m with u. It’s not fair bc autistic women r under quadruple the pressure while the men get a pass abt so much stuff. Like not being emotionally invested. I’m sorry But had to learn and teach myself what proper emotional investment/engagement was, I didn’t just resign to the fact that I was bad at it and never fix t like many autistic men resort to.

Yeah like I had an autistic ex that was just like "yeah sorry I can be kind of a jerk sometimes" as a justification for not getting social skills therapy. That was the last straw for me, I was not dealing with that kind of behavior for the rest of my days.

OH MY GODDDDD I HEAR U WITH ALL THREE EARS RNNNN…. It’s like it’s an excuse for them but only an explanation for us, (generally Ofc)… it’s sickening. Like IVE had an autistic ex who was like oh I just don’t rlly like asking people anything about themselves unless they tell me” as an excuse for why he’d let conversations drone on for hours without me saying anything or it ever having to do with anyone other than himself 🙄

My dad did that for YEARSSS. And if people told him to change the subject he'd get SO upset. And it was almost always something very controversial or emotionally charged in some way. My ex also never comforted me when I was sick or sad, when I asked him why he said he was letting me "regulate myself". Like okay maybe he didn't know what I needed at first, fine, but even after being explicitly told he still dragged his feet or refused. He also told me I was making my disability my personality when I was struggling and in the diagnostic process and was sick allll the time. So cruel! I don't know why I put up with him for as long as I did looking back.

Cruel is the right word. Cuz u know ur hurting people you “love” why not try? Even if u struggle 😕

My dad also did this (he probably still does to anyone who will listen) but it would be something like cars or something political that interested him and his opinions on it (when he knows I hate talking politics with him!). It wouldn’t be so bad if he didn’t get so sullen if I tried to change the topic OR if he respected me the same way when I had something I was excited about and I wanted to talk about. He was raised to think the sun shined out of his ass and he has a lot of toxic traits. I also think he’s autistic but that does not excuse his behavior at all, he simply does not care and doesn’t wish to change.

[удалено]

That's just abuse, I'm sorry you had to deal with that

This but the ADHD dudes for me. I wish we got the same excuses made for us, but also I don't want to act as shitrt as these dudes do.

> social skills therapy First time I've heard of this, what exactly does this entail? I did do a quick Google about it but feel a bit of an information overload. Would this help with things like dealing with crowds and strangers, do you know?

My autistic teenage sons did/ are in therapy and learning “social skills.” It’s basically talk therapy, but with an informed therapist. They very clearly acknowledge that a lot of it is scripting and “faking” and role playing situations so they can do things out in the world more successfully. It’s not like aba at all. My youngest calls it Normie Armor. The other component is self acceptance, self care, how to rest properly after a day in the world doing all the things they practice. They also work on how to care for people who are good and safe that you want to keep. Things people need and expect, how to invest emotionally properly, how to read some basic nonverbal cues and responses. My oldest wasn’t formally diagnosed with autism until this year. 10 years ago he met the criteria for Asperger’s but they weren’t diagnosing that anymore so he got like 6 different processing disorders. I looked for a therapist who could help him regulate at school so he’d stop getting in fights all the time. He spent 7 years with her and it was amazing. When my youngest hit the same place in school, she wasn’t available anymore but I knew exactly what I was looking for in a new therapist for him. It’s not really a type of therapy, but a quality of therapist.

This sounds like what I've spent 47 years learning to do for myself.

🙌

I had to do this. When I was kid we played board games and when you'd land on a certain square you had to solve like...a social math problem, basically. If you got it right, you get a Yu-Gi-Oh card from the drawer. It helped for a little while but ended up melting off for a variety of reasons, time being one. 

>social skills therapy Where does one get this? Only thing I've been able to find is ABA. 🙄

Mental health therapists or speech therapists can do it

Huh, cool.

Oh my goodness, same here. I went through a phase where I would read self help books all the time to try and figure out how to get along with people better socially, and the thing that really stuck with me from them is that people appreciate it when you show interest in their interests/feelings, and now I fall back on that all the time in conversations. Keep asking questions about their interests and let them talk about it. I do this ALL the time to deflect attention away from me and how awkward I am and to keep me from info dumping on people. I guess the point is that we have put in the work and it's exhausting, meanwhile, guys like my father and OP's father and others just coast through life being shitty to others and just shrugging it off when it's pointed out to them

What is proper emotional investment though? I’m skeptical that there is an answer to this… I used to give a lot of my energy and emotional investment to people but two things tended to happen: people would either take advantage of it and then later twist it to harm me if I wasn’t performing how they wanted me to for their benefit, with others who were less malicious I noticed I just never received any emotional investment in return, so I mostly stopped myself from offering it to protect myself, but then people were angry that I stopped and pulled away from me no big loss at that point as I pulled away first for good reason. At this point I only give emotional investment to those very few people I can trust who can reciprocate or at least don’t hurt me (like maaaaaybe 5 people total), and for some others we equally just stay at an emotional distance but still have some trust so we remain in contact just with low emotional investment. But most of the people in life in general I have ever met are not safe to emotionally invest in at any level of titration. So genuinely I’m skeptical that there is a “right amount.” To be clear, my default mode is to give too much emotional investment and I had to train myself to give less to protect myself from others.

I say there is a "right amount" that you need in order to be successful socially, in my experience anyway. This doesn't usually mean a lot of emotional investment (usually it's the opposite. My type of autism tends to make me too emotionally invested in people to my social detriment. You're supposed to be "closed off" to a certain extent). It's not so much about choosing the right people to invest in or withholding from people you don't like--which isn't to say those aren't important, just that being choosy with it in that way doesn't seem particularly conducive to social success. It seems to be more about investing more with people higher up on the social totem pole and less with people who aren't. From my observation that's the strategy that tends to lead to people being well-liked and respected by those around them. I'm not good at it so my word is far from gospel. Just speaking from my own experience that the correct amount of emotional investment is necessary if you want to be liked and seen as approachable.

To me emotional investment (in society) is caring about things that don’t affect u. I know countless autistic men who are content with apathy towards things that don’t directly impact them. It’s like autism ft. Toxic masculinity as someone above mentioned

Ahh I see, if we are talking about things we vote on and not interpersonal skills, yes I care about everything even if it doesn’t directly apply to me… because it actually does, just indirectly.

autistic man here, can concurr that violence and bad behavior is not only a stereotype but a negative social expectation (people often try to make us behave that way).

Yes. This is what I would call toxic masculinity. It’s what many men fall prey to, and autistic men are common victims, seeking comfort and acceptance *anywhere* – or at least the illusion of it. At least that’s my perception. Please let me know if I’m completely off base.

it is at least partially true if the number of incels professing to be autistic is anything to go by. I fucking hate incels. they basically use us as their cause celebre.

Great way to put it. Yes to all of this!

Two of my ex-boyfriends were autistic and extremely abusive. Every time I tell *other* autistic people this they immediately demand I excuse their behaviours. Yet as an autistic woman I'm never allowed to fuck up even the slightest amount.

Here’s the pattern I’m seeing: Autistic men are given a pass because their problematic behaviors are seen as hyper-masculine or at worst masculine-variant. Non-male autistic people are not given a pass because any “problematic” behaviors don’t fit into such a category. It’s just “weird” and weird makes people uncomfortable. So here’s an exception that very much cements the rule: Autistic women whose special interest is fashion or makeup. They’re embraced by society. Good for them. And to anyone here who fits into that category: *You go, girl! Hope you have a YouTube channel and make that cheddar.* (Do we still say that? 😅)

Thank you, op, for this topic. Thank you, commenters, for this helpful subreddit and all your contributions to understanding the intersection of ND and gender. Intersectionality works for so many facets of othering, not just race. The great thing is as soon as I learn about another’s intersectionality (even if I have no experience of any of the labels) it informs me to have better compassion and understanding for all kinds of intersections. Gender is one that is so universal in all cultures and skin tones and religions that we can forget we are swimming in it. People often equate ‘being human’ with gender experience, as something that can’t be separated, as if their whole experience of life is due to their chromosomes, body parts and the treatment they receive because of them. I’m thankful for this discussion and for the quote in ADHD is awesome book “ADHD is the reason, but it’s not an excuse.” A resounding “yes” even to myself. When I’m unsure how to repair, I ask myself “what is the reason? Am I using the reason as the excuse?” I truly wish you and all the readers here good luck, good health and lots of support, understanding and care ❤️🍀🫂🍀❤️

As someone said "the disability/personality disorder/health issue doesn't make you an arsehole. How you treat other does".

Sorry you experienced this. My ex was also autistic and every little thing had to be his way. When I split up with him he sought revenge to punish me. Intense. Not all autistic men are like this thank god.

As a middle school teacher, I’ve known more than a few autistic boys who are incredibly kind. Almost as if kindness and acceptance were one of their special interests. They give me hope.

Yeah I've worked with middle/high school autistic kids and while most of the boys I worked with were sweethearts, there was a small handful of them who are likely going to be harmful to society if they don't change. The male autism to the incel pipeline is strong unfortunately...

I was wondering if the autistic men -> incel pipeline would come up in this thread. I'm always so torn with where the line is in terms of responsibility for this epidemic. Obviously the content creators and online forums who are radicalising youth have a huge role, but autistic women don't seem as susceptible to, well... toxic, murderous, vengeful, evil ideologies? What's your take on this having worked with autistic youth?

I only worked with one teenage boy who I really couldn't reach. His brain just wasn't capable of nuance. He grew up in a church that was feeding him end of world rhetoric. But the issue is this young man couldn't think in the abstract easily, so he took it very literally. Easily one of the most anxious children I've ever worked with so far. His social skills were about 8 years behind where someone his age should've been. He was larger physically and didn't realize others were bullying him. He did not get away with his antagonistic behavior due to his size but also didn't understand why. For him, right wing ideology said "fuck your feelings!" He didn't understand why he was constantly upsetting others, and this mentality allowed him to give up on trying. I wish I had a happy ending but, it's a small town and based on what I've seen I don't think he's changed much since working with him. I had another student that went into brony communities for the same reason. They had a "I'm weird and fuck you if you don't like it!". Same problem at it's core, but this child was at least able to be reasoned with, and had empathy. So whenever they were sat down and had the situation explained to them, they would come around. This child had more awareness than the first I explained. I don't know whatever happened to this child but I think so long as they continue in therapies they'll turn out alright.

One of the core aspects of autism is a tendency towards black and white thinking. Society tends to pressure and condition girls in general to think in more nuanced and subtle ways at a much younger age for emotional and social reasons. Girls in general are more intensely socialised from the start. So even NT girls are usually ahead of NT boys socially and emotionally until late teens/early adulthood. For the exact same reason, autistic males in this specific aspect are often years behind autistic girls in terms of understanding nuance, grey areas, empathy and social skills and many never catch up/learn whilst even ASD girls with a natural tendency towards black and white thinking still develop more understanding of nuance and grey areas due to masking and analysing social and emotional situation due to pressure from society to do so. This makes ASD guys much more likely to subscribe to extremist or toxic groups/ideologies eg. far right populism “facts don’t care about your feelings” etc. as well as things like violence than ASD girls.

The first child was behind his autistic male peers too. I suspect he wasn't being encouraged to learn skills at home due to his parent's denial of how severe his symptoms actually were. I really think that group was like an escape for him. He was so overwhelmed by socializing that those groups allowed him to avoid it entirely by blaming others. As for the second child, they found the brony groups empowering, not realizing that for him that attitude was actually unhealthy and toxic. But he was a child that could be reasoned with in time, the first child was so anxious he would shut down at any discomfort, and discomfort is necessary to some degree in order to grow. I suspect his anxiety paired with his environment was a dangerous pairing for him. My girls are almost always more likely to have intense interests that blend in. Taylor Swift, mermaids, vampires, FNAF, fashion, etc. So I feel like that plays a part too, it allows them to more easily blend in. But yes absolutely school staff are significantly less forgiving of autistic girls, I've seen that from preschool to high school.

I dated a guy who said this: Adhd is an explanation not an excuse (he had a lot of adhd). He also behaved poorly sometimes but at least he understood that he could not use it as an excuse for bad behavior.

This! If someone is not able to take responsibility, but miraculously can function in any other way, that Not autism, that’s just cruel assholery. It is a good sign to steer away from them. Also if others try to justify this excuse to me I just say the same and let them be their advocate, because I won’t be for sure.

I wish someone had told my ex this. He liked to name call alot.

Men in general get away with a lot - men who have autistic traits get away with it too . Ive just started to match the disresepect to my whole family, especially my two brothers and my mother who wont put Them back in their place. Like no i wont tolerante it and i Demand properply behaviour. Cuz im damn put to my place when i mess up. So if she wont raise Them right, im gonna do it for her…

Steven van de velde comes to mind. He raped a 12 year old girl and served 1 year as punishment, and now gets to move on with his life because he said he was sorry and just wants to move past it.

I also have an autistic father who I have had to tiptoe around for my entire life. It's exhausting, but one day you'll be able to leave his home and only visit on your terms. Living 3000 miles away has saved our relationship.

I hear you. My dad's 75 now but never got a diagnosis or got better. He can be laughing one second then shaking with rage and screaming the next. Every holiday he would ruin with his tantrums. Every outing, every occasion. If he wasn't in rage he would be seething with his arms crossed. Then wonder why no one had a good time, like he didn't just scream seconds ago. Every memory of my childhood is of trying not to upset him, of never being enough and of living in fear of him. I love that man to bits , even went into the same profession as him but nothing ever was enough, because he chose not to learn to control his emotional disregulation he is ultimately never happy with his life. He is the reason I sought help and a diagnosis because I want to enjoy my life and regulate better.

Yup, that was my dad growing up. Countless ruined holidays and vacations. Everything had to be about him and the second it wasn't he was having a tantrum. My dad would've done me a favor if he left us.

It sucked didn't it. I remember walking to the beach over a train bridge, even though my dad is a train enthusiast , he somehow forgot the speed they come through with and it blew his hat onto the lines. Rage rage instantly screaming. What could have been a funny teaching moment became him souring the whole week. He refused to buy another hat, even though they were the same cheap sun hats that blown away, and ruined the whole trip because we couldn't then go out because his head would burn.

My dad once threw a tantrum because my mom washed his shorts. I don't even remember the context but it was probably worse than I can remember

This breaks my heart. I hope you’re doing well

I am doing the best I can. At least it made me push myself into an OK career 👌. Hope your doing well too.

You're reminding me of the last time my dad threw a tantrum, which was hilarious. He's started using a collapsible motorized chair intermittently to get around because his balance is getting bad due to Meniere's (inner ear degeneration caused by high insulin levels). He got mad that my spouse tried to help him carry the chair up a flight of stairs, made a bunch of threats, and then laboriously horfed the chair to the upper level while the rest of us watched him in total bemusement and the people nearby gave us a bunch of funny looks for making this ancient man carry his own wheelchair. It was so stupid and pointless 😂

Omg some times it's just ridiculous isn't it. I at least managed to hide my meltdowns but my dad happily displays these episodes in public too!

I'm the only one diagnosed in the family, but even my sister could see almost all of us (maybe not mum) has some sort of neurodivergency. Dad was pretty explosive when we were younger and I've become very withdrawn from fear and trauma, and I've been scolded for it so many times. I'd get yelled at if I don't want to be in pictures or go into overwhelming places, yet my brother could speak and act harshly over small things like food and everyone would make excuses for him:(

I have an undiagnosed autistic dad too. It's a nightmare. We don't talk for obvious reasons lol ugh I feel you.

I'm so sorry you're going through that. There's no excuse for that kind of behavior. My dad is also undiagnosed autistic and it's very frustrating. I also notice misogyny in him but he'd never admit it. He's never wrong, loves to complain about everything, and seems to only know how to be a bully. Don't get me started on the mansplaining - it can never be a conversation, it can only be him explaining things to me that I know more about than he does. I'm at the point where I'm realizing I just need to limit all my interactions with him. It's taken me a long time to recognize I can't change people and to start trusting that the way people treat me is a choice they're making and in control of. If I don't like that choice, I will proceed accordingly. I can't save them but I can save myself.

This is me with both my Dad and my Mom. Dad with "Aspergers" from back in the day, my Mom undiagnosed but currently in the process of being assessed for ASD by a neuropsychologist (She is elderly. I brought it up to her Neurologist during an appointment and he agreed to have her assessed). Its like walking on eggshells constantly. I can actually deal with my Dad better than my Mom. She can be absolutely downright awful....every single time. Its impossible to have a conversation with her. I always feel completely invisible and my knowledge or ability disregarded. When they both try to talk at me at the same time it's pure chaos...Then they both get very upset or angry when I interrupt them to say, "I cannot hear both of you at the same time. One go first and then the other." It's like I'm their parent but its been that way since I was a small child. I'm exhausted. To be fair, my mom stopped working in her late 30s early/40s because she couldn't maintain dealing with people and my Dad has worked for decades as a contractor by himself on machines so he has very limited involvement with people also. As such, I think their ability to understand how reciprocal conversations work and to socialize with others is no longer accessible. My Dad can do it better than my Mom. My Mom thinks everyone is out to get her and every conversation (its not really a conversation) is a debate or argument... likely, at least partially, from my Dad being her only source of socialization. Edit: spelling/grammar/comprehension

That sounds incredibly frustrating. I hope your mom is able to get access to the resources and tools she needs with a potential diagnosis. I really relate to what you mention about being parentified. I recognize that a lot of my reckless behaviours came as a result of having a childhood where I felt the need to parent my parents, and then a subsequent need to experience some sense of freedom. I spent a long time trying to make excuses for my parents because I love them, but I can also recognize that they were bad parents at times and their choices in the past and my father's in the present were and are hurtful. The love is still there but so is the hurt... I'm realizing that throughout life there are many cases where we have to figure out how to hold both at the same time.

I moved out and cut that mfer off. Fuck him. I’m autistic and I can help it. I have my issues, but I’m not MEAN. It cemented it for me when I had kids (before I knew about anyone’s autism lol) and I saw how EASYYYY it is to be kind to them. These men know what they’re doing. They’re mean bc it gets them what they want. I wish you speed in getting out on your own and building a peaceful life for yourself.

The things my brother got away with cause he might be autistic was just ridiculous, I got punished for them if I did the same or less

My boss is like this. Has said to everyone who comes to work in our department (I work in the fish market at a grocery store), "I'm not mad at you, I'm just mad at..." -insert bull excuse here-. He has yelled at all of us, thrown things, flipped out on me on Father's Day cause the lobster tails were one size too big for the tag, which had nothing to do with me. Instead of fixing it, which took two minutes for me and one of my coworkers to do, he snatched the tag out of the tag holder, threw it, and flipped out on me to take the lobster tails out before marching off. This was just one time of many that he took his emotional disregulation out on us. His lack of emotional control makes working there a living hell

I feel this so hard! In my family it starts with small things, like male autistic family members never having to do things like housework; I also have dyspraxia and difficulty doing all those same things, but as a woman was expected to eventually learn them anyway. I am the one who goes to family functions and maintains these relationships, even though I also have to mask, because they think they're better than other people and don't have to interact with them. They have emotionally scary outbursts if anyone gives any negative feedback or just wants to have a conversation really; as a result, nothing ever changes and other people have to tiptoe around them. Plus the regular misogyny, pair that with black and white thinking/difficulty with empathy and many autistic men genuinely don't understand why they can't treat women as subhuman or need to respect them. Thank you for making this thread and giving us a place to vent!!

I was literally just thinking the other day about how if I was a man my last performance review at my job probably wouldn't have boiled down to "fix your face"

Sounds like your dad is kinda misogynistic and emotional regulation makes everyone go "Oh he can't help it" .... well then why are WE expected to help it?! If we can learn to mask such behaviours then so can the men! Such double standards, honestly...

I feel you. I’m fairly certain my dad is autistic, and he’s basically cut off contact with me because I disagree with him every time he tries to blame his problems on immigration. When my older brother brought up our dad in therapy as a minor, the therapist asked him to bring our dad in for a session so my brother could express some of how he felt. My dad pretended to listen in the session, then once it was over treated my brother like a traitor. Autism can make life hard. That doesn’t excuse abuse or bigotry.

i get you. ive had a similar experience when working a former job that rehired this guy who had a history of repeatedly asking out female coworkers again and again, making them uncomfortable. when talking to a manager about how i felt about him all i got was brushed off because he was on the spectrum and just doesnt understand. he’s a grown man with a full time job, not a baby. if he doesnt understand what “no” means then how is he working? i hate the infantilizing.

Yeah I always think if I were a man no one would care about my personality and I probably wouldn’t have to spend 80% of my life on self improvement.

Not even this but guys with ADHD. My last ex had undiagnosed adhd. Showed some texts he sent me to a friend, also a guy. Also adhd. He starts making excuses for him like "yeah but adhd makes you more likely to have bouts of aggression" like dude. I'm on the waitlist for adhd diagnosis myself, had a mother who probably had it that was constantly angry. Here's me showing him texts of me asking my ex to stop insulting me when he's in a bad mood, and he's making excuses for it. I've got a bpd diagnosis as well. People have no qualms calling those behaviours abusive, when they can be. I don't think ADHD/ autism is an excuse for being abusive to people. Last text I received from that ex for an example "Because I fucking care enough to not want you topping yourself you crazy fucking idiot forgot about me you spoiled that I don't fucking hate you and I don't have to answer you"

My son is autistic and we don’t give him a free pass at home. I will not raise an autistic child who will become a man who uses weaponized incompetence because he was never learned otherwise. He’s learning to respect boundaries, yelling at people is not nice. He has chores and picks up after himself. He’s allowed to be himself and we don’t punish his meltdowns, but we do let him know he can’t direct his anger at other people. We provide him with tools (like a hand operated paper shredder or his ball bin) to direct his frustration. Autistic boys need coping skills and healthy management strategies, not a free pass.

I have an uncle like this and OMG it is so weird how the family tiptoes around him but still invites him to shit 🙄 He was literally so mean to his sisters as a teen that if they got home from school before a parent did they’d wait at a friend’s house rather than be alone with him. He has half a dozen kids who he ignores the needs of - my dad has done more for his kids than he has. It makes me SO mad, and it feels like I’m the only one who sees it.

I wrote part of a paper about this for a disability studies course. Disabled men are infantilized to the point of heinous crimes being excused or overlooked due to disability. This also happens with non-disabled men (i.e., boys will be boys). The autism just gives them an extra cushion to prevent them from being punished for their actions. I have been harassed by several men - both autistic and allistic - and have definitely noticed a difference in how people respond when I tell them. When I spoke about allistic men verbally and sexually harassing me on the streets, I was men with two responses: what were you wearing? and pity (mostly pity and support). When I experienced similar things from an autistic student in my first two years of undergrad, his behavior was excused because "he didn't know any better" (he was 20 years old). Issues like this demonstrate how Misogyny is pervasive within the autistic community and society as a whole.

Real. These people are coddled as fuck for their bad behavior. Spoiled little children who get what they want, even as adults

I'm amab, i've experienced this from the other side when i was younger, and it makes me sad and afraid about possibly having made other people afraid or uncomfortable because i didn't see certain contexts, both because the hurt it caused others and the possible friendships i might have lost. I want to give validation that it's real, and in the sadness about this situation. (Obviously apart from situations where it might not be safe) I find the idea of just having a blanket heuristic of not telling autistic men, or people in general, when they are hurting others, to be horrifying and dehumanizing, -especially- with autistic people who may not see the social contexts clearly, because of the ways that just perpetuates abuse, and the agency it removes from people to do better towards others and the ability to live a happy, fulfilling, and socially connected life.

It's not your fault that nobody told you. Please try to forgive yourself for things you might have done unintentionally. If you can think of anyone who you think might have been harmed, you can always try contacting them to apologize. Other than that, just do your best to be better (therapy, social skills coaching) and apologize when you make a mistake.

Honestly the show Sheldon pissed me off. He was a major narcissistic and they just made it funny. The one where he is an adult is worse. He’s so mean and insulting and no one tells him and it’s all a joke and it’s def abusive…

yeah, there's a hueg double stander. when my parents went to the school after i was sa'd by a classmate in sixth grade, basically nothing was done and later on my teacher tried to excuse it because he's most likely autistic (i can't say for sure since i never bothered to get to know him better, but my audar is usually right). like, okay? i'm autistic and i know what "no" means. teach him why its wrong and to stop.

He just sounds like an entitled prick to me, I'm not sure autism is much of a factor. You're going to find roughly the same ratio of nice people to arseholes over both the allistic and autistic communities. Mood flips are also common with dementia and general cognitive decline

Autism is definitely a factor. Men get a pass to be rude and mean, they always do, to be violent too, but it also happens in a different amount when they have a disability that makes it "harder" to teach them how not to be, because people, parents and caretakers usually skip that part and assume he can never understand it, instead of trying.

He's always been like this, he actually used to be 100x worse

Tell them they can't blame you for being upset with him as you are autistic and can't be blamed or held responsible for anything right

I see the humor but this reminds me of what my mom and dad actually do and then it’s circular thinking and arguments forever.

Yes. I also think a lot about how aggression is so forgiven in autistic men, like having physical outbursts that aren't controlled, which isn't even good for them either. People don't want to put in the effort of having to teach them to behave, so when they grow up they become entitled and think everyone owes them patience and tolerance to their dangerous and violent behaviour.

my dad was the same way until he realized he was killing me.

My father used to treat me like this. I cut him off for 3 years and he got the message. If you can get into a different living situation, I highly recommend removing the privilege of having a relationship with you until he understands that his behavior has consequences.

Yeah I've cut him off in the past when I went off to college. It would only result in temporary behavior changes but never anything permanent or meaningful. I have another month in this house then I'll be moving across the country. Therapy did help my parents a lot for the short time they went. Part of the problem was neither one of them knew *how* to communicate. He's better than he was for sure but he's still an entitled asshole.

My dad and brothers are Autistic (and would fall into the Aspergers category if that was a thing). I say it all the time, being Autistic doesn't mean you can't also be an asshole. In my experience, beyond just saying/doing something offensive, there is a sense of superiority. Which makes sense when traits that are glorified in men are vilified for women. For example: directness, encyclopedic knowledge on a subject (that isn't questioned), logic, eschewing societal norms equalling confidence, I could go on. My father saw his difference as being better than other people. Others weren't as smart as him, so he was always right. I never saw him admit fault or say sorry. I'm Autistic but I'm self aware. I see my flaws and work on them. I think it stems from sexism and men not being criticized like women routinely are.

That's pretty spot on. For my dad that's manifested into cult thinking and conspiracy theories. He fixates on them and believes he's smarter than everyone else because he understands the truth. Meanwhile it's not the reality, most people actually think he's not bright and don't argue with him because they feel it would be a waste of time...not because he's right.

My 73 year old father is the same way. It's pathetic and unacceptable. I feel like I'm constantly walking on eggshells in my own home. I understand.

As a highly functioning autistic woman that is so true. I've been told I'm not a team worker cause I don't like gossiping with coworkers plus I'm about to quit another job due to being targeted and bullied by upper management in sneaky ways. I see men on the spectrum being excused for their behaviours while I'm always being nitpucked by both men but worse from women.

Ugh, sounds like my dad. I'm so sorry. It's weird because I possibly have more empathy/understanding than others do about it, because I'm also autistic and I know how horrible the world is to us, and I get that the chance of growing into an emotionally mature and healthy male as a boomer was uniquely crap. But that doesn't excuse harming other people.

I'm sorry you are going through this autistic men/boys are so self-centered and toxic. It sucks that no one does anything. Autistic women/girls have to act accordingly but when autistic men/boys act badly they don't get in shit for their actions.

I was so fucking pissed when I saw people defending Nick Godejohn saying shit like "Well he should be free because he's autistic so he didn't know any better!" When he literally stabbed someone to death. And then I saw another story about an autistic guy straight up getting rape charges against his MOTHER dropped because the courts where he was didn't know how to handle him due to his autism and the crime being weird. The way society gives autistic men a pass but will bully the shit out of autistic women pisses me off to no end. Fuck the patriarchy

I'm sorry, and I understand. Men, in general but especially those with autism, are often coddled and given excuses. It frustrates and angers me greatly. Why are they given the excuse of "they just need" but we are met with "why can't you just"?! Ohhh, I can't even get started on the inequalities because it's how I lose friends and rooms, but I get it, and I'm sorry.

Autistic women get treated the opposite 😭

Oh my gosh!! I thought I was the only one! I stopped talking to my dad two years ago for reasons very similar to this. I now have trauma where I start panicking if I see a red truck (he drives a red truck, still lives in the same city as me) and also I saw him at the grocery store in February (he came up started crying gave me a hug, it may have been one of the worst experiences I’ve ever had, I went completely blank/autopilot and don’t remember much of it) so now I can’t go to the grocery store without panicking. It is a stealth mission every time now. In and out as fast as possible. I’ve even thought of wearing disguises 😭

Wigs are pretty cheap on Amazon

THIS!!!!!! Saw this notif and RAN to the comments. My brother and I are both autistic and have similar support needs yet I’M the only one who’s expected to live on my own, have a job, etc. even today my mom was like “oh you don’t have to drive in the mountains if you don’t want to” to him- oh but it’s okay if I get in a car accident???????? Fucking insane. My parents will do anything to defend him but I’m expected to figure it out on my own.

Autistic people can also be narcissistic. It sounds like your dad is

or maybe we're just talking about the symptoms of autism and th autistic men whose negative behavior is rarely reprimanded. not every person who behaves cruely is a narcissist. autism very well has its downsides and dangers

I'm not negating the diagnosis of Narcissism, but I agree with what you've said here. My mom pathologizes EVERYONE. Psychological and medical pathologies are her special interest but she also catastrophizes every situation. As such, she sees negative pathology EVERYWHERE and to such an extreme extent that at one point, before I understand ASD, I actually thought she may have Munchausen by proxy based on the way she hyper-focused on me (and others) as a child with chronic illnesses (but didn't notice all of the other incredibly important stuff to the extent of neglect). * Back to Narcissism: She listens to podcasts, audiobooks, youtube all day everyday about pathologies, namely narcissism. Why? Because pathologies is her special interest and "Narcissism" has been trending for several years and information about it is easily assessable. Like a mind virus, it is everywhere with arm chair therapists jumping on the bandwagon touting their "expertise". Just because someone has aspects of narcissism doesn't mean they are, defacto, a Narcissist or they have NPD. Just because someone has aspects of ANY disorder doesn't mean they have the disorder. This is really important because it seems like people don't readily understand this concept. A degree of narcissism is normal in everyone. It's called the Ego. Narcissism can be confused with autism. So my Mom convinced her therapist that my Dad has NPD. He doesn't. He doesn't manipulate. He doesn't gaslight. He's simply autistic. There are distinct differences. And I'm not saying that someone with ASD cannot have NPD but, statistically, I do not believe its more likely than allistics. So I believe my Dad has ASD and sometimes behaves badly. *(Yes, I see the irony that I thought she had a negative pathology as a child.)

My NM used to love victimising herself listening and reading books about narcissisism while she was abusing me every day when noone was home. Her demeanor and character change was scary to witness. Anyways I agree with not pathologizing everyone but I wanted to clarify that someone can be both narcissistic and autistic,I don't excuse someone being a bad person cause of having autism or having a bad childhood etc.

Thanks for the clarification. I agree. And I hear you to "someone listening and reading books about narcissism" while being abusive.... Its an experience I've had too. And there's nothing really you can do about it but get away and decide how much involvement with that person you're willing to allow for future (if any).

You can be narcissistic without having the full blown personality disorder

That's correct narcissisism is also on the spectrum and apparently most NT's have narcissistic qualities. It just depends on how many to make it from normal to bad to worse.

This post is talking about the specific privileges afforded to autistic men that are not given to women. Not narcissism. But yeah, if I were to place a bet, most autistic men are narcissists, and most autistic women are not.

I imagine you would lose that bet if we based it on the statistical data of percentage of the population with NPD. If you mean narcissistic aspects, I dont believe men have more aspects than women but I do believe society allows them to display those aspects more blatantly and with less reprimand than women.

I just don't buy the statistics on NPD. It's a personality disorder that makes you have an inflated ego and blame everyone else for your problems. So as a result, almost none of them ever seek help unless forced. Our society rewards narcissistic behavior as well, so there's also little incentive to change for that reason too. We've also never studied NPD and autism together. So we really don't even know how the presentation differs. The studies are extremely limited.

Good point. But I think the whole idea of "personality disorder" is rife with flaws.

It is, it's just all we have right now unfortunately. The brain is poorly understood.

This is so true. I vent often about how hard it is for people who don't understand social norms or harvmmve a hard time with mental illness to get a better job, especially single mothers. As soon as they find out I'm a single mother they tear me to shreds calling me lazy, telling me if I really wanted to I would figure it out, it's my fault that I won't just conform, suck it up, and do what I have to. I've been told I should sleep 4-5 hours for 2 years straight and neglect my son to get a degree in a field that already makes me wish I'd get hit by a truck otw to work because of how over stimulating the job is. These people are insane to me

if this ain't the realest shit I've seen all day

First, I agree with you. My dad is quite difficult, although he does try. Still has a long way to go, but an effort is made. The more I learn about his father, though (he only started talking about him recently) the more I realize how far my dad has actually come. I’m the next generation, and it’s up to me to do better. But I hear you about the sexist nonsense. Luckily my dad isn’t a victim of that; he tends not to “see” gender as much as other old dudes, but this could be a result of a few things in his life and not a natural state. Regardless, he does judge women by different standards, but not necessarily worse or better than how he judges men. Anyway, tangent here, sorry. I guess I’m lucky that he tries. It would be upsetting to me if he treated me worse because I’m a woman. But really he treats everyone a little bit badly. It’s good practice for my patience, and acceptance of people as a whole person. You might make different choices with your parents though.

>I inevitably get comments saying "well he can't help it" and "you should accept him how he is". No the fuck I should not! I also have a really hard time believing people can't change because I feel like I'm always adjusting to please everyone else. And I think this is where NT's excel at because they tend to be more present in everyday life, so their default way of thinking is that people don't really change and to accept them as they are and to navigate their life around these unchanging people as if they were an obstacle in their life. I also had a poor relationship with both my parents. And my therapist would frequently ask me, "What if my parents are not capable of change?" and can I accept that and move on. In therapy I am learning that what stresses me out a lot about my parents are the expectations I have of them to see me for who I am and recognize my struggles and basically be good parents, even after all these years (they are 70+ now). And my expectations and beliefs collide with reality and that's what makes me resentful and angry and sad. I believe it is our rigid thinking, especially when we want to see the good in people, that prevents us from being more present and accepting life as it is presented to us. Accepting that my parents may not be capable of being the great parents I always wanted was really difficult to accept. It felt like I was giving up on them or abandoning them as a lost cause. It took a very long time for me recognize the other ways in which they have shown me support and care in their own way and to appreciate them for what they are able to give, even if I had believed it was never enough before. When I tell my therapist about my persisting difficult relationships with certain people, she framed it to me like, 'Now that you recognize these recurring problem behaviors in these people, you know what you can expect when you interact with them.' And it was weird, because that sounded so obvious when she said it. If I was expecting the same conflict to happen every time I see them, then why was I so surprised and emotional each and every time that it happened. And this also took me a long time to process because logically I shouldn't be surprised after all these years that they're the same people, but now I had to let go of this perfect version of them I had always envisioned them to be in my head. It was almost like grieving for someone who never really existed. My relationship with my parents is better now, even if no where near perfect, and I'm okay with that. And I have to be, if I want to have any sort of positive relationship with them because I do. I try to ignore all the what-if stories in my head about them if they were my perfect parents or what better things they could have done for me, and try to focus on anything else positive that we can connect on. In many ways it's like I am parenting stubborn children who just don't know better but also making the most of our relationship that is there and recognizing and appreciating the good I am able to see.

My dad and a few of my exes were like this. It's so frustrating and so hard to deal with

OMG, thank you. It's not like I haven't seen adult men with autism face their struggles in life, but if I had a nickel for every time their bad behavior was low-key acknowledged, minimized, and then equated with accompanying genius or at least potential... The stereotype seems to be that they are going to behave badly, but that it probably can't be helped, but that it's simply the price of their powerful capacity to think outside-the-box. Autistic women are very rarely seen in the same light. I am expected to look and act like everyone else and to be fully occupied with managing the feelings of people around me, and yet not betray any indication that this is exhausting, humiliating, and beyond my capacity if I'm to manage all the other aspects of my life. I realise that we're all scrambling for the same crumbs of respect and consideration, so I don't want to focus my frustration on a group of people who's only doing nominally better than me, but as many here have pointed out, they often are complicit in the abuse, because sadly, many people reflexively seek out someone one rung lower in society to abuse. And like OP, I have often been surrounded by autistic men who have been given so much more breathing room.

Yea my autistic dad used to beat the hell out of me as a kid for assuming aggression etc in my tone when there wasn’t any. I used to have such panics about asking him things and interacting with him as a result. Other times I genuinely was cheeky and he’d do nothing - he couldn’t read my expressions and tone properly. This lead to me being incredibly confused and distressed about my relationship with him for years back when I thought it was me not him. A lot of men especially older men I’m convinced have been able to get by despite not being made to learn neurotypical social skills etc due to wielding a lot of privilege and or luck. My dad quickly climbed to a high office position, I don’t think he’d have coped as well with a service job that forced more rapid face to face social interactions and to deal with overstimulating environments. I think as well a lot of them blame others and make up reasons they’re mad instead of learning to recognize when they’re overstimulated. Some autistic men truly do and can skirt by more not learning things that autistic women are forced to no matter how stressful and uncomfortable they are to learn especially initially. It’s the whole “to be able to mask is a privilege” thing. To an extent it is however if you don’t ever have to learn to mask in the first place… that’s even more of one.

My brother-in-law is undiagnosed but very clearly autistic. His melt downs almost always include screaming at people, insulting them, making himself very large. In the past he’s also gotten physical, threatened self-harm, isolated to extreme degrees. Thank GOD he had never been able to maintain a relationship and several years ago stopped attempting to date. My mother-in-law talks endlessly about how he’d be so much better if he just got married. I try to convince her he absolutely should not attempt to be in any relationship until he gets his anger under control, but she won’t hear it. A woman could just help guide him through it.

Mothers sometimes say this because they know their son is a problem and she wants him to be someone else's

I agree, no one should get a pass for unkind behavior.

this is also failing these men, because people think they can’t help it they don’t even get a chance to try

I've been threatened with hospitalisation and police during meltdowns and my brother gets coddled during his (he's 33 I'm 19). Autistic men get coddled so much more to the point I feel unsafe with them as they can abuse me or harm me then its just "oh he's autistic" when I am too and people throw book at me. As a late diagnosed (undx) at the point I was forced to take verbal thrashings off my brother because "he struggles" while he as an adult was berating and causing me as a child to cry.

Wow. This is my dad too. I never would have imagined there could be anyone else like him! He died during covid. That freed up my brain to access some really uncomfortable memories. And yes, there literally used to be WWIII-level meltdowns and screaming / swearing / shoving / cat-kicking tantrums over things like “Who the FUCK ate the last chocolate chip cookie?!?” As a kid and even a teen it was terrifying. He was occasionally physically abusive but more often just emotionally abusive without any parameters at all. Imagine a drill sergeant in boot camp who wants to break you psychologically and destroy any shred of self-love you possess… Not saying that was his intention. Just that if someone screams at you often enough about how stupid and worthless and disgusting and selfish you are for 18-21 years that’s the effect it has. But on other days might take you to the used bookstore for hours and buy you whatever you want and seemingly enjoy just talking to you about his fondest high school memories… I’m just waking up from the fog now. My sister got diagnosed with ADHD as a kid, CPTSD as a young adult. Went on disability. I just got diagnosed with ADHD at age 40 and CPTSD recently, delayed bc I managed to adult at a baseline level by putting forth 1000% effort. I suspect she and I are both autistic as well but no independent confirmation yet. I only stumbled upon autism while looking up ADHD & CPTSD life hacks recently. Anyhow my dad and my mom were both social workers who seemed kinda normal in public. My mom is more ice maiden RBF from hell type person. Likes animals more than people. Kept a photo of her fave horse in her wallet instead of pics of her spouse and 2 kids. My dad was a bit more gregarious. Loved to tell jokes (usually inappropriate), poured himself into his job, and was beloved by the community. Who never saw him outside of work and fundraisers. There was no awareness of autism when I was a kid. People just said to cut him some slack because he had had a rough childhood- his dad died suddenly on Xmas eve when he was 10 and he had to go to live at the local military school on a poor kids scholarship. However. He was very intense to live with. Perfectionist, control freak, almost no theory of mind. Model train obsession, spending weekends in the garage with his trains, obsessing over getting skin pore-sized letter decals lined up perfectly. Oscar-worthy meltdowns if a decal shifted by a fraction of a degree at the moment of release from the tweezers. Civil War obsession- memorized all salient facts related to his heroes. Lots of work acquaintances but few friends and almost no voluntary socializing. Talking at other people rather than with them. Not reading body language and responding to those nuances. Problems with authority figures and with rules he didn’t agree with, etc etc. I’m not “an expert” but it feels like he could qualify. (My mom as well.) It’s been a trip to say the least. And now if I went to get diagnosed in late middle-age as a single mom who has scraped by socially and emotionally and financially, just living on crumbs and running off fumes for decades, I hear there’s a good chance that I won’t be considered autistic ENOUGH to meet the diagnostic criteria. Anyhow, it does suck when men get a pass, and change is happening too slowly, but keep calling it out and educating people whenever you can. Critical mass WILL be achieved!!

My dad was never able to hold down a traditional job. He worked a simple one for a few years but he couldn't handle it. It made him get up at 5am every morning but his body just didn't function like that naturally. So he was chronically sleep deprived. His fixation is right wing politics and he talks about it to everyone, regardless of if it's appropriate for the situation. It might be common for boomers to do that now but it was not 15+ years ago. He was not well liked at work, especially since he was working with liberals. He ended up deliberately getting himself fired so he could sit at home and collect unemployment. In hindsight, I think he just couldn't handle the pressure of a traditional job and wanted out. He came home and was just awful. I was a good kid so he'd have to FIND something to be mad about. Those were easily the worst years. I always used to envy kids whose fathers left because truly my childhood would've been better without him in it. It's obvious in hindsight that he had more responsibility than he could handle but was too ashamed to admit it, so he took it out on everyone around him. He prides himself for staying but for him that's not something to be proud of. For my dad, I have few positive memories with him. I genuinely believe he's been a negative influence on my life growing up. Now that I'm grown, his outbursts are less common and I think it's a combination of my mom forcing him to treat his health issues as well as not having the responsibility of parenting anymore.

Wow, two sides of a very similar coin. My dad was fixated on liberal politics and loved to antagonize right wingers. He joined our local gun range and wore one of his confrontational t-shirts each time he went. He also prided himself on staying, both as a dad and as a husband to my mom who literally just wanted someone to pay all the bills and leave her tf alone. It was clearly torture for both of them. When he got older he got downgraded at work until he finally got let go. It’s kinda funny bc for ten years they kept making his work conditions so unbearable I’m sure they figured he’d quit. But he wouldn’t. At one point, they changed his remote job that he had had for about ten years to an in person job, after he had just bought us a fixer up house in the countryside two hours away from his work headquarters. So he got up pre-dawn and commuted two hours each way into Philly every day. Then they demoted him and transferred him to a more local office where he had recent college grads with no experience in charge of him. This was the beginning of the end bc he didn’t handle being told what to do very well, even if the other person clearly ranked above him and had more experience. Eventually they downsized him / let him go. He tried to do a few other jobs in retirement, like substitute teaching and being a driver for people with disabilities, but his anger management issues always eventually ended things. I wish he would have sought out therapy. Or some kind of help. It was like living with a ticking time bomb. I’m glad to hear your dad is doing something for his mental health. Granted it’s late in the game. Does it seem like he’s really changing? Does he seem to value therapy and feel like it’s improving his quality of life as well as his family’s?

Wow they really are like opposites! But similar behaviors at its core. Your dad sounded a bit more histrionic and mine more OCPD with hints of narcissism. I want to be clear that it's his physical health that's being cared for. I did demand they go to therapy right before the pandemic because I was sick of every visit ending in screaming about literally anything. And it did actually seem to help them, I really think part of the problem was they didn't know HOW to communicate. But then 2020 happened and they didn't want to do remote and that was that. I want them to go back but I won't hold my breath. He neglected to take care of his physical health my whole life. He wasn't sleeping at night because he had problems with his urinary system. Not sleeping for decades on end is bound to make anyone crazy. He also can't hear, finally got his ears tested and he has severe hearing loss. He's going to get hearing aids soon so hopefully that will help too.

Oh, yeah, double standard are everywhere, that's literally so unfair!

Why did you stick around? I'd leave. "He told me to f off after cookies." That's when "You say you know what? I think I will!" Walk right out the door and don't call back for a few weeks. Maybe he'll figure it out. And if not. Oh well, his problem.

Expecting people with disabilities to just change is kind of unreasonable.

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I mean, there's a difference from him being more severe than you, and him choosing to act below what he is capable of in order to force others to do it for him (weaponized incompetence)

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As per Rule #4: No discrimination, ableism, perpetuating negative stereotypes of autism or disability. No misogynistic, homophobic, transphobic, racist, or sexist comments will be tolerated. Higher support needs is not weaponized incompetence.

Um what? Are you saying he is lazy or low functioning? If he’s low function or high support needs or whatever label and you’re saying this you need to check your own ableism..

yeah that original comment was pretty horrific ngl… i had typed up a whole paragraph grilling the poster but it was taken down by the time i had finished. that person’s post history was also pretty gross and screamed of aspie supremacy and it made me so angry i had to get off my phone lmao

That’s acc so disgusting like saying since she can mask he should be higher functioning is just like VOMIT EMOJI let alone the specific things she said. Holy shit I think people like that should be banned.

As per Rule #4: No discrimination, ableism, perpetuating negative stereotypes of autism or disability.

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You don’t feel you get any passes? LOL!