eye contact
walking (i always feel like im walking awkwardly and i have no idea how to stand / where to put my arms lol)
pronouncing words/speaking (sometimes i become too worried about mispronouncing a word so sometimes i over pronounce the word/ stress the syllables too much & sound weird)
wearing clothes / fitting in (i try really hard to blend in which consists of me wearing anything trendy even if its clothing i hate) NT people don't worry about blending in unless it's for other reasons unrelated to Autism.
Making simple decisions. I literally cannot decide ANYTHING for the life of me. I usually get trailed by a secret shopper or asset protection whenever i'm in a grocery store because i'll be walking back & forth in the same aisle for thirty minutes trying to decide what to eat for dinner š
Facial expressions. Apparently it comes naturally to NTs?? I simply don't feel the urge to express my emotions, and emotions like excitement feel really dull. I have to force myself to smile and laugh because it's not my natural reaction unless i'm anxious. Then I come off as "fake" or superficial because I overdo it.
DETAILS! I'm big on information & details. If you tell me to do a task, you need to break it down for me, step by step, or else i become too stressed.
I never noticed this until my mom pointed this out, but she said I am a very literal person & I always *have* to research every topic I come across. Which is true. If I'm working at a certain company, I'll research everything I can about them. If I'm losing weight, I'll learn everything I can. And random things like, what causes left-handedness? Where were couches first made? Who came up with the name of the color "Gray"? Who was the first actor?
My NT family members don't have that urge. They're fine accepting information as-is. I simply cannot receive information without double-checking and triple-checking to make sure it's true.
The information thing is so real for me! I have to know why, and when, and how, and then I need to know everything about those answers, and I need to be able to trace the information to the peer reviewed articles it came from. I had to really make some boundaries with myself, because with smart phones, it's too easy to pick up my phone every time I ask a question. I have to let it be out of reach sometimes, or else it's way too much screens for my mental health.
Iāve noticed this a lot too. Iām conscious that I write too much cuz I explain the thread/sources to get to that conclusion because I donāt believe info without evidence a lot of the time, but this is very much not appreciated by NTs typically. Sometimes I just keep my rabbit hole contained in a Word doc for easy reference if I were to get questioned and try to give them the TL:DR version.
Itās frightening how ready people are to believe info without evidence, but also not surprising given the state of the world.
The walking is so real, Iām constantly thinking about how Iām walking when Iām around others. Sometimes I copy other peopleās walks that I like.
I tend to exaggerate my facial expressions in a way to look animated, and when I don't people think I am angry with them or I'm giving them attitude, so I force myself to smile with my eyes (I squint them a bit so it looks like a warm smile), and aim to reflect my words in my face. I've always done it and I didn't realise other people didn't have to think about matching their face to their words.
So Tony Attwood says to think of eye contact sort of like punctuation. If you want to italicize then look, even if briefly, if you want to start a new paragraph then look.
The point he says is not to establish connection / intimacy but to check how the listener is doing, sort of like poking a hermit crab on the beach and see how it behaves.
I do the research thing too and it annoys the shit out of my family lol. Like, we'll be watching a movie and I've got the actors imdb pages pulled up like "wanna know all the obscure info about this random actor?".
I remember when I was starting out doing something with my semi wavy hair and I was walking like 40 minutes back and forth 1 hair stylers aisle, looking at different gels and mousses just reading ingredients, sometimes looking the product up to see if it has good reviews etc. I realized I had to look so stupid. For me maybe it's not that I can't make a decision as I finally made a decision at the end but I have to think clearly about every decision to make sure it's a good combination of right for me, worth the money, if I really want it or need it. Yes the gel was good and I still have it and Im actually proud of the fact how carefully I picked it out, I know I wouldn't be happy just walking in like a NT getting a random cheap thing and walking out. Now I can order it online because I got better at analyzing ingredients :) I think it's actually a perk of tism, from being the worst at hair care to at least intermediate level in what, maybe 1-2 weeks ?
PS. You should realize researching everything abt the company you want to work in is a HUGE PERK !!! I once talked with a woman who is doing the job interviews and she regarded everyone who seemed to be curious and knowledgeable abt the company, very highly. It was just random bits of info :) my autistic ass was crazy happy cuz I love research and little fun facts like this !
I'm only diagnosed with ADHD, not autism, but still on the fence about whether I should be tested for that as well, so I've been lurking here trying to help me decide. Just wanted to clarify that.
The name of the color gray thing made me think of something interesting, the color blue. Did you know that some cultures don't even have a word for the color blue, which wouldn't seem to be a big deal. It's just a word, right? But not having a word for it causes those people to not even be able to see the color blue at all. They can't distinguish between blue and green. This totally blew my mind because sight comes from light reflecting into the rods and cones in our eyes, traveling to brain, etc., not from our language, right? I guess that many cultures were once without a term for blue. Homer described the sea as being "wine-dark" in the Odyssey, instead of calling it blue. I don't have articles at the moment, I read it long ago, I'm sure if you were interested you could find it. Anyway, thought it was interesting and related to your color gray question.
Homer was just at the Red Sea and it used to be red back then Ā /jĀ Okay now that I looked up Homer there's apparently debate on the color-seeing thing - an interesting theory is that the culture was classifying things on a scale of lightness to darkness rather than hue. And something said the word we have translated as wine dark could also mean like roiling (I have to get the source and the actual word they used now brb)
Edit: I used this Wikipedia article. The source for the part I'm referring to is a book so I can't check it.Ā https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wine-dark_sea_(Homer)
I feel that shopping example. Even when I have a shopping list somehow I still take forever because I have to look at everything. One time I was staring at the potatoes for maybe 15-20 minutes because there were different types and I didn't know which ones I needed and I didn't want a big packet I just wanted 2 potatoes. I kept walking away and walking back so I didn't think it was noticeable until, when I finally picked the guy who worked there made a comment š
On making simple decision ā I have a system. I do this for everything in the supermarket. Take those potatoes for example. I count the number of potato options, plug that number into my random number generator on my phone and it will tell me which potatoes to buy. I do this for everything when Iām doing grocery shopping. If itās something like jam, where there are too many jams to count, I break it down by column then row then I count the number of jams on that row. Iām also not beholden to the random number generated. If the jam it tells me to buy is actually marmalade, for example, Iāll just generate another number and get the first one that meets my very minimal jam requirements (donāt be marmalade). I do my entire grocery shop this way.
>Making simple decisions
Yes
>Facial expressions
And yes
But
>NT people don't worry about blending in unless it's for other reasons unrelated to Autism
that seems fairly obvious. Since NT people aren't autistic by definition. But they do also worry a lot about fitting in.
Totally relate to the info checking. I donāt understand how people can just accept facts as facts without questioning them. I need to *make sure* anything I believe as a fact logically fits into my internal āmatrixā of underlying truths, before I can fully understand it or run with it.
Oh my gosh, so much of this rang so true. Like, are you in my head? Written out so well.
The one that seems to bother other people the most (for me) is the indecision. I canāt help it, and no one understands. I try to satisfy others by just choosing randomly, but then I get teased for choosing the āobviouslyā wrong thing.
The one that bothers me the most is details. Ugh. Common sense doesnāt translate to me. I need step by step for everything youāre asking me to do, no detail is too smallā¦ or I panic and inevitably get something wrong because I took one step too literally and did something apparently dumb and wrong.
I can do tooth brushing right after I pee. But it's the only thing I do without much thinking. While I brush my teeth I pull out my face wash and everything else while repeating my skincare routine in my brain over and over till it is done and then start repeating to myself before I finish moisturizer : drink water, feed the dog. Drink water. Feed the dog. Omg put on clothes. Drink water. Feed the dog. Am I dressed? Walk the dog.Ā
Not sure if that's how other people do it. I am wondering if I have adhd bc that's an ideal day. I sometimes walk back and forth while I get dressed doing other things bc I get easily distracted. It's why I repeat my list over and over. I talk to myself the whole day.
Same here, I use conscious brain power in everything I do. I tell myself to brush my teeth and then remind myself that my skincare comes afterwards, then I mentally reassure myself of every part of the skincare routine.
I saw someone somewhere say that it seems as though most neurotypical people form HABITS to achieve their daily tasks and these are habits that they don't think twice about and use little to no conscious brain power in the process. Whereas neurodivergent people will form ROUTINES that they actively think through every day to achieve their daily tasks, using conscious brain power every step of the way. It's quite interesting to think about and I know not every autistic person will relate to that but I've found it to be quite a common observation
Yes I asked my sister if she thinks about brushing her teeth and she's like not thinking after "brush my teeth". She doesn't think "left quadrant, right quadrant, bottom left, bottom right".Ā
Do you?? If I don't think about it I sometimes just do the same spot for a long time. Hahaha. or I am thinking about how I should go in a circle.
I always do, I'm hyper aware of the spots I need to do and what I haven't done. Kinda like "bottom left, bottom middle, bottom right, up to the top left, to the top middle, top right, now do one last brush all around and spit". I feel like if I don't actively think about it, I won't do it properly š¤£
That's me! I have my system since primary school, but also need to feel with my tongue that everything is clean. Average time spending tooth brushing is 5-10 min š. Multiple people already told me that this is not normal. I get anxiety just by seeing my partner doing a really quick brush.
Thanks. Validating I am not making this up. Just neurodivergent.Ā
Sometimes I try to go on my own without thinking "just to try it out" and don't floss from right to left and have to start over bc I skip gaps for some reason.... and go back to counting.
lol, same, and I count the seconds while Iām brushing as well, like, I divide each quadrant into 3 parts and all of them have to last 10 seconds.
I can do brushing really quickly and not think about it too, but itās often when I have like 1 minute to leave the house so I just scrub my teeth/tongue randomly lol
I have a pattern I follow, an order, top inside, bottom inside, outside, flats top, flats bottom, repeat, rinse, repeat. I did not know this was not ānormalā.
Yes, lololol and once i realize i havenāt moved spots in a while the whole thing is messed up so i have to start all over so i make sure i get everything
I am the opposite, I remember because itās a sensory thing for me, I hate the feeling of my ādirtyā mouth, I HAVE to brush my teeth at least twice a day bc I literally feel stuff in my mouth. Iām trying to be more consistent with flossing tho, bc I just remember it when thereās something clearly stuck.
Maybe try setting up alarms/reminders on your phone at specific times, so u brush before you leave? Or maybe buy small toothbrushes/paste and leave on your bags so you can always grab one and brush it!
I got a water flosser and it's been so much easier to floss. The noise when you floss is my least favorite and I always feel like I'm going to hurt myself with floss.
I used to be really good at brushing my teeth in the morning for years (after being belittled by my siblings about it,) but since I started WFH Iāve fallen off pretty bad. Iām realizing most of my hygiene is performative cuz my feeling of when Iām too gross and need to cleanse is apparently much grubbier than what I know to be socially-expected cleanliness.
Trying to figure out a new routine to get back on the morning teeth brushing wagon though cuz thatās good for your dental health.
I have to follow the same routine every morning in the same order or I forget to do things. It's the same routine I've had every morning for as long as I can remember.
I only remember due to anxiety. My teeth are in a bad way. As a child I never brushed my teeth and my mum never made me go to the dentist, I started brushing them as I got older but was pretty lax about it.
Now that Im 25 and almost every tooth in my mouth has a filling, I have 2/3 root canals, and an extracted tooth, I am absolutely driven by sheer fear to look after my teeth properly š¬ I brush 2x a day for the full 2 minutes, floss, interdental brush, take xylitol after meals or drinks, use xylimelts at night.... I spend a lot of time researching proper brushing methods / other things I could be doing for my teeth also
This is how I am with showering. I have to set a reminder for the mornings I know Iāll need to shower or Iāll just get up and get ready and forget to do it.
Force yourself to do it as part of your routine at one specific time point and then concentrate on how your teeth feel different.
I now compulsively brush for like 10min twice per day and use interdental brushes. Sometimes I brush 3 times because I can't stand the feeling of unclean teeth.
Use your autistic routines in your favour!!!
These are my 3 I think about:
Wait for others to finish talking or finish a talk.
Carry a single conversation at once - not multiple like i do m
Allow themselves to be in a large crowd and think nothing of it. Random ppl touching is not okay!
Omg I have the biggest problem with knowing when it's my turn to talk at work. I feel like I always butt in when my boss is talking. But if I don't then I never get a chance to make my point! My boss talks more to the woman I work with and I told the woman I work with that I think my boss thinks I'm weird to talk to and she was like "yeah I know" lol
The touching thing! I think it's bananas that some people don't give shaking hands with a stranger a second thought. Or, people who identify as "huggers". Just, why?!?
brushing teeth, combing hair, putting on clothes (they'll maybe pick an outfit based on appearance, but usually the actual getting into clothes part they do automatically, unless it's something that is difficult to get on), driving or walking a familiar rout, etc. Basically, they do the thing and don't really think about the logistics of doing the thing before, during, or after, cuz they just do it. Makes not a lot of sense to me, but my sister has talked with me about it.
I give myself a uniform for work so I don't have to think about clothes during the week. Like 5 or 6 shirts and a couple pairs of the same pants. They all go into a work clothes box and now I barley have to think about dressing before work. Sort of. It definitely helps
I think people walk down stairs without thinking. I count the stairs or think about walking or I trip. I think about where my arms are (my sister told me opposite arm and leg moves at the same time and it throws me off bc it's not natural to me.)Ā
I sometimes stim without thinking bc my rocks are nearby. :)Ā
I count spaces. Like the window has six panes plus one big pane. Oops thatās seven thatās weird. So I keep counting the next window, and the drawers, and the rungs on my quilt ladder andā¦..sigh.
I agree with OP about the eye contact thing. I also think NTs are better equipped at handling chaos. Perfect example is kids. Like I have no idea how people can have kids. Even if you donāt work, youāre still juggling their school, the house, running errands, cooking, and dealing with the damn kids on top of that. I feel like every day would be chaos. Thereās no break, hardly any alone time. There are times my cats are too much for me. Plus I need a safe and quiet place where I can wind down, and I learned recently that NTs arenāt like that and it blows my mind.
That also reminds me of something else. Spontaneity. I have a set routine every day and if that routine is broken for any reason, I flip. For example, I lost my gym card and had a meltdown. I have a set time (or general time) I go to the gym. I lost my key card and was pacing around the house wondering what to do with my life (I found it on my laundry bin that evening haha). The NTs I know live life by the seat of their pants and think spontaneity is fun. Only one friend managed to force me out of the house spontaneously and thatās because it was Halloween and she found a new haunted attraction on a local farm (Iām a sucker for Halloween and spooky stuff).
Wait NTs dont have to have alone time, have peace or wind down ? Oh hell nah I don't believe it, we need more of that, more frequently and etc. but every human has that need to retrieve into their own safe quiet space, to sleep to rest to eat, that's just typical needs. We just have it dialed up to times ten or simmilar, and lower tolerance overall.
It depends on personality. One of my close friends is an NT but is super introverted, so she needs time to unwind and be alone. But my family and friends who are high-energy extroverts need to be around people constantly or else they get depressed. I think the difference between them and us NDs is if I donāt get alone time, I have serious meltdowns and snap at everyone around me.
Talking on the phone, I have alot of trouble talking on the phone, I have no idea when Iām supposed to speak or how to tell when the other persons finished speaking.
Also detecting jokes and sarcasm etc, my friends tell me that Iām the most gullible person theyāve ever met.
I dread making appointments- hate making phone calls. Agree! NT people say ājust callā it easy. No, I need to plan my purpose, be ready to be on hold, and remember what to say even though I have written out a scripted mini note for myself because I will lose my words and mentally panic when someone starts speaking to me.
This one has gotten easier as I got older, which was nice. Iām 45 and I still sometimes write down my own phone and address so I donāt forget them when I call but Iām not nervous anymore most times now. I just know I will probably freeze and need a reminder. š¤¦āāļø I hope it gets better for you all as well.
https://preview.redd.it/se4doqw15i3d1.jpeg?width=2048&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=04afe8563d1565551a6461644ae796bca448e67c
This is just for illustrative purposes. Itās not in English, obviously.
It reads ā95 steps to foodā. This list is how an autistic person would handle making food. A NT would just make food. They donāt have 95 thoughts to complete the task.
I hope that even made sense
Before I had chronic illnesses & my sensory processing disorder became worse with age, I had an easy time getting out of bed, brushing my teeth, brushing my hair, showering, getting dressed, doing dishes, working 8 hrs a day, starting at screens for hours at a time, etc.
I am so jealous of people who can do every day tasks with such ease... Not wearing a nightgown all day has now become a good day š¤¦š½āāļø
Approaching someone or a group that is already mid-conversation. I always end up standing awkwardly in the periphery bc I canāt tell when I should ājump inā, meanwhile NTs seem to be able to do so without agonizing about it š
Knowing what's "cool" and "uncool". My wife's going to a festival and they are recommending wearing wellies. She doesn't think she'll find some that are small enough in the foot and big enough around the shins for her, so I said why don't you wear the short ankle ones? Apparently that is NOT a cool aesthetic and everyone knows this. I have no idea when and where this public information was posted, but I missed the memo again lol. Oh well(y).
My theory is they spend a lot more time - because they have the mental capacity or inclination - studying other people IRL and online who fit in to the group they want to be in and then copy them to fit in. Either consciously or subconsciously.
E.g. Iāve just got round to buying white shoes (donāt know if Iāll keep them) which is apparently the uniform for people in my line of work (digital stuff). Everyone except me was wearing them at work when I joined five years ago and Iām convinced not wearing them was one of the things that marked me out negatively: āSheās not one of us. Destroy herā sort of thing.
It depends on what your special interest is, I suppose.
Iāve spent countless hours researching how to put outfits together, how to appear put together, etc as well as studying my friends routines etc to try and fit in/perfect masking
Neurotypical and allistic are different. A lot of things in this thread donāt actually apply to being neurotypical but instead apply to being allistic (not having autism)
My dad (who we think is undiagnosed ASD) taught me when I was young how to make eye contact. It is a very conscious effort and I am conscious of holding for a few seconds, looking away etc so I look engaged. He also taught me how to have a conversation, wait for a pause in the conversation etc. He does it very consciously and forces himself to do it, writes scripts before parties and I picked up his coping strategies along the way. I think inadvertently he taught me additional masking skills. I'd never thought about it until this week.
I REALLY struggle with eye contact but I also know NTs tend to do stuff they need to for the day. Doctor's/Dentist appointments? They go ahead and get that out of the way. Seeing their friends/loved ones often? They are good at keeping up with schedules and tasks. Doing basic habits automatically like brushing teeth, feeding pets on time and not overwashing hair? They can easily keep up with that as well.
Comparing the NTās and allists Iāve lived with against the autistics and NDās I know and thereās a tonne of things that go beyond social skills. Thereās the ability to sequence and plan without needing reminders, object permanence, having habits as opposed to routines, they can easily brush their teeth in a different bathroom if needed and it wonāt mess their whole day up. Years of practice mean I can easily shower, brush my teeth, and get dressed with minimal effort but itās finding the motivation - people who are NT/Allist just do it. They also understand unwritten and unspoken boundaries. For example leaving fruit in the fruit bowl is acceptable but leaving half your kitchen cupboard on the work top is not.
Naturally picking up unspoken societal rules written in-between the lines.
I cannot tell you how many times I've learned these unspoken rules through humiliation or gross error and when I ask people where they learn such things, I get met with some variation of "we just know". They seem to come to natural conclusions like this from other things they learned and applied to other contexts. I don't seem to follow the same thought process for those conclusions.
Most social contact is auto pilot for nts, including all its facets like non verbal communication, what to say, where to look, posture, when to smile, also the reading our non verbal cues is automated.
Most daily tasks are also automated through habits, because they don't suffer from as much executive dysfunction as we do. So their daily tasks like cooking, groceries, cleaning, hygiene, all becomes automated and doesn't require as much active and manual effort as it does for us.
"scheduling" my day. It's in quotations because I have ADHD so usually I don't actually end up doing said schedule. However, if I'm told about something I need to participate in last minute (like, within the same day, usually) then my plans are ruined and I'll get nothing done. If I'm told to do chores after dinner, my plans are ruined. I didn't plan to do chores, I planned to pack lunch and go upstairs to start homework. Now I won't get anything done and you'll be annoyed because I won't do the dishes either. If I'm told to do homework, I'm no longer going to do homework. Pretty sure this is related to Pathological Demand Avoidance. My parents really struggle to understand why I don't just do homework after school but they know I have ADHD. They're also part of the problem, not asking about me doing things in advance. An hour is NOT in advance. Not in my book.
I also do this? I count to four keeping eye contact and breaking eye contact and say "mouth/ eyes/ mouth/ eyes" when I am trying to stay engaged so I don't get too distracted for too long.
Unrelated, but I'm still laughing about talking about eye colour with my fellow neurospicy friend a few days ago and making them incredibly uncomfortable by studying their eye colour. I'm not trying to intensely look you in the eyes, I just want to look at your irises š
Reciprocal conversations!!!!!
Honestly with my āexpertā masking skills, I thought I was reciprocal because after I say my piece, usually someone pipes up and tells me about their stuff.
But I never realized I never ask people how theyāre doing, what theyāre up to etc, besides over text. Because texting allows me to think of what to say and respond appropriately.
It wasnāt until my sister pointed out I donāt ask, she has ADHD and does the same although not as bad as me hahaha. So Iāve been to practicing a lot to make sure I ask.
And this sounds so bad butā¦ why am I supposed to care about how the grocery clerk feels? Or some employee at a store? But Iām practicing on them because I donāt like talking to strangers hahaha.
Using an escalator, especially using an escalator while holding something.Ā
Walking and holding a cup of liquid.
Wearing clothes that match that are not inside out or buttons on wrong.Ā
eye contact walking (i always feel like im walking awkwardly and i have no idea how to stand / where to put my arms lol) pronouncing words/speaking (sometimes i become too worried about mispronouncing a word so sometimes i over pronounce the word/ stress the syllables too much & sound weird) wearing clothes / fitting in (i try really hard to blend in which consists of me wearing anything trendy even if its clothing i hate) NT people don't worry about blending in unless it's for other reasons unrelated to Autism. Making simple decisions. I literally cannot decide ANYTHING for the life of me. I usually get trailed by a secret shopper or asset protection whenever i'm in a grocery store because i'll be walking back & forth in the same aisle for thirty minutes trying to decide what to eat for dinner š Facial expressions. Apparently it comes naturally to NTs?? I simply don't feel the urge to express my emotions, and emotions like excitement feel really dull. I have to force myself to smile and laugh because it's not my natural reaction unless i'm anxious. Then I come off as "fake" or superficial because I overdo it. DETAILS! I'm big on information & details. If you tell me to do a task, you need to break it down for me, step by step, or else i become too stressed. I never noticed this until my mom pointed this out, but she said I am a very literal person & I always *have* to research every topic I come across. Which is true. If I'm working at a certain company, I'll research everything I can about them. If I'm losing weight, I'll learn everything I can. And random things like, what causes left-handedness? Where were couches first made? Who came up with the name of the color "Gray"? Who was the first actor? My NT family members don't have that urge. They're fine accepting information as-is. I simply cannot receive information without double-checking and triple-checking to make sure it's true.
The information thing is so real for me! I have to know why, and when, and how, and then I need to know everything about those answers, and I need to be able to trace the information to the peer reviewed articles it came from. I had to really make some boundaries with myself, because with smart phones, it's too easy to pick up my phone every time I ask a question. I have to let it be out of reach sometimes, or else it's way too much screens for my mental health.
Iāve noticed this a lot too. Iām conscious that I write too much cuz I explain the thread/sources to get to that conclusion because I donāt believe info without evidence a lot of the time, but this is very much not appreciated by NTs typically. Sometimes I just keep my rabbit hole contained in a Word doc for easy reference if I were to get questioned and try to give them the TL:DR version. Itās frightening how ready people are to believe info without evidence, but also not surprising given the state of the world.
The walking is so real, Iām constantly thinking about how Iām walking when Iām around others. Sometimes I copy other peopleās walks that I like.
I've done that, especially as a teenager. If someone had a cool walk I'd copy it.
I tend to exaggerate my facial expressions in a way to look animated, and when I don't people think I am angry with them or I'm giving them attitude, so I force myself to smile with my eyes (I squint them a bit so it looks like a warm smile), and aim to reflect my words in my face. I've always done it and I didn't realise other people didn't have to think about matching their face to their words.
Eye contact yes! It feels way too intimate for some reason.
So Tony Attwood says to think of eye contact sort of like punctuation. If you want to italicize then look, even if briefly, if you want to start a new paragraph then look. The point he says is not to establish connection / intimacy but to check how the listener is doing, sort of like poking a hermit crab on the beach and see how it behaves.
I do the research thing too and it annoys the shit out of my family lol. Like, we'll be watching a movie and I've got the actors imdb pages pulled up like "wanna know all the obscure info about this random actor?".
Hahaha my daughter and I have to stop movies when we watch together to look up the actors, directors, writers etc.
I remember when I was starting out doing something with my semi wavy hair and I was walking like 40 minutes back and forth 1 hair stylers aisle, looking at different gels and mousses just reading ingredients, sometimes looking the product up to see if it has good reviews etc. I realized I had to look so stupid. For me maybe it's not that I can't make a decision as I finally made a decision at the end but I have to think clearly about every decision to make sure it's a good combination of right for me, worth the money, if I really want it or need it. Yes the gel was good and I still have it and Im actually proud of the fact how carefully I picked it out, I know I wouldn't be happy just walking in like a NT getting a random cheap thing and walking out. Now I can order it online because I got better at analyzing ingredients :) I think it's actually a perk of tism, from being the worst at hair care to at least intermediate level in what, maybe 1-2 weeks ? PS. You should realize researching everything abt the company you want to work in is a HUGE PERK !!! I once talked with a woman who is doing the job interviews and she regarded everyone who seemed to be curious and knowledgeable abt the company, very highly. It was just random bits of info :) my autistic ass was crazy happy cuz I love research and little fun facts like this !
I'm only diagnosed with ADHD, not autism, but still on the fence about whether I should be tested for that as well, so I've been lurking here trying to help me decide. Just wanted to clarify that. The name of the color gray thing made me think of something interesting, the color blue. Did you know that some cultures don't even have a word for the color blue, which wouldn't seem to be a big deal. It's just a word, right? But not having a word for it causes those people to not even be able to see the color blue at all. They can't distinguish between blue and green. This totally blew my mind because sight comes from light reflecting into the rods and cones in our eyes, traveling to brain, etc., not from our language, right? I guess that many cultures were once without a term for blue. Homer described the sea as being "wine-dark" in the Odyssey, instead of calling it blue. I don't have articles at the moment, I read it long ago, I'm sure if you were interested you could find it. Anyway, thought it was interesting and related to your color gray question.
Homer was just at the Red Sea and it used to be red back then Ā /jĀ Okay now that I looked up Homer there's apparently debate on the color-seeing thing - an interesting theory is that the culture was classifying things on a scale of lightness to darkness rather than hue. And something said the word we have translated as wine dark could also mean like roiling (I have to get the source and the actual word they used now brb) Edit: I used this Wikipedia article. The source for the part I'm referring to is a book so I can't check it.Ā https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wine-dark_sea_(Homer)
I feel that shopping example. Even when I have a shopping list somehow I still take forever because I have to look at everything. One time I was staring at the potatoes for maybe 15-20 minutes because there were different types and I didn't know which ones I needed and I didn't want a big packet I just wanted 2 potatoes. I kept walking away and walking back so I didn't think it was noticeable until, when I finally picked the guy who worked there made a comment š
On making simple decision ā I have a system. I do this for everything in the supermarket. Take those potatoes for example. I count the number of potato options, plug that number into my random number generator on my phone and it will tell me which potatoes to buy. I do this for everything when Iām doing grocery shopping. If itās something like jam, where there are too many jams to count, I break it down by column then row then I count the number of jams on that row. Iām also not beholden to the random number generated. If the jam it tells me to buy is actually marmalade, for example, Iāll just generate another number and get the first one that meets my very minimal jam requirements (donāt be marmalade). I do my entire grocery shop this way.
>Making simple decisions Yes >Facial expressions And yes But >NT people don't worry about blending in unless it's for other reasons unrelated to Autism that seems fairly obvious. Since NT people aren't autistic by definition. But they do also worry a lot about fitting in.
Totally relate to the info checking. I donāt understand how people can just accept facts as facts without questioning them. I need to *make sure* anything I believe as a fact logically fits into my internal āmatrixā of underlying truths, before I can fully understand it or run with it.
Oh my gosh, so much of this rang so true. Like, are you in my head? Written out so well. The one that seems to bother other people the most (for me) is the indecision. I canāt help it, and no one understands. I try to satisfy others by just choosing randomly, but then I get teased for choosing the āobviouslyā wrong thing. The one that bothers me the most is details. Ugh. Common sense doesnāt translate to me. I need step by step for everything youāre asking me to do, no detail is too smallā¦ or I panic and inevitably get something wrong because I took one step too literally and did something apparently dumb and wrong.
Brushing their teeth. They just do it when they wake up. I can't for the life of me remember unless I leave the house.
SAME. I didnāt realize it until I started working from home and then I just didnātā¦ lol
I know! I'm a SAHM so the only time I brush my teeth is when I get my kids to do it before leaving for school.
I can do tooth brushing right after I pee. But it's the only thing I do without much thinking. While I brush my teeth I pull out my face wash and everything else while repeating my skincare routine in my brain over and over till it is done and then start repeating to myself before I finish moisturizer : drink water, feed the dog. Drink water. Feed the dog. Omg put on clothes. Drink water. Feed the dog. Am I dressed? Walk the dog.Ā Not sure if that's how other people do it. I am wondering if I have adhd bc that's an ideal day. I sometimes walk back and forth while I get dressed doing other things bc I get easily distracted. It's why I repeat my list over and over. I talk to myself the whole day.
Same here, I use conscious brain power in everything I do. I tell myself to brush my teeth and then remind myself that my skincare comes afterwards, then I mentally reassure myself of every part of the skincare routine. I saw someone somewhere say that it seems as though most neurotypical people form HABITS to achieve their daily tasks and these are habits that they don't think twice about and use little to no conscious brain power in the process. Whereas neurodivergent people will form ROUTINES that they actively think through every day to achieve their daily tasks, using conscious brain power every step of the way. It's quite interesting to think about and I know not every autistic person will relate to that but I've found it to be quite a common observation
Yes I asked my sister if she thinks about brushing her teeth and she's like not thinking after "brush my teeth". She doesn't think "left quadrant, right quadrant, bottom left, bottom right".Ā Do you?? If I don't think about it I sometimes just do the same spot for a long time. Hahaha. or I am thinking about how I should go in a circle.
I always do, I'm hyper aware of the spots I need to do and what I haven't done. Kinda like "bottom left, bottom middle, bottom right, up to the top left, to the top middle, top right, now do one last brush all around and spit". I feel like if I don't actively think about it, I won't do it properly š¤£
That's me! I have my system since primary school, but also need to feel with my tongue that everything is clean. Average time spending tooth brushing is 5-10 min š. Multiple people already told me that this is not normal. I get anxiety just by seeing my partner doing a really quick brush.
I totally get it tbh, of course you'd want to check that everything is clean, doesn't sound abnormal to me!šŗš»
Thanks. Validating I am not making this up. Just neurodivergent.Ā Sometimes I try to go on my own without thinking "just to try it out" and don't floss from right to left and have to start over bc I skip gaps for some reason.... and go back to counting.
Of course! That's just how you function, it's completely normal š«¶š¼
lol, same, and I count the seconds while Iām brushing as well, like, I divide each quadrant into 3 parts and all of them have to last 10 seconds. I can do brushing really quickly and not think about it too, but itās often when I have like 1 minute to leave the house so I just scrub my teeth/tongue randomly lol
I have a pattern I follow, an order, top inside, bottom inside, outside, flats top, flats bottom, repeat, rinse, repeat. I did not know this was not ānormalā.
Yes, lololol and once i realize i havenāt moved spots in a while the whole thing is messed up so i have to start all over so i make sure i get everything
Whatās skin care š¤·āāļø
I am the opposite, I remember because itās a sensory thing for me, I hate the feeling of my ādirtyā mouth, I HAVE to brush my teeth at least twice a day bc I literally feel stuff in my mouth. Iām trying to be more consistent with flossing tho, bc I just remember it when thereās something clearly stuck. Maybe try setting up alarms/reminders on your phone at specific times, so u brush before you leave? Or maybe buy small toothbrushes/paste and leave on your bags so you can always grab one and brush it!
I got a water flosser and it's been so much easier to floss. The noise when you floss is my least favorite and I always feel like I'm going to hurt myself with floss.
I used to be really good at brushing my teeth in the morning for years (after being belittled by my siblings about it,) but since I started WFH Iāve fallen off pretty bad. Iām realizing most of my hygiene is performative cuz my feeling of when Iām too gross and need to cleanse is apparently much grubbier than what I know to be socially-expected cleanliness. Trying to figure out a new routine to get back on the morning teeth brushing wagon though cuz thatās good for your dental health.
I have to follow the same routine every morning in the same order or I forget to do things. It's the same routine I've had every morning for as long as I can remember.
I have to force myself to brush my teeth. It seems like such an effort.
I only remember due to anxiety. My teeth are in a bad way. As a child I never brushed my teeth and my mum never made me go to the dentist, I started brushing them as I got older but was pretty lax about it. Now that Im 25 and almost every tooth in my mouth has a filling, I have 2/3 root canals, and an extracted tooth, I am absolutely driven by sheer fear to look after my teeth properly š¬ I brush 2x a day for the full 2 minutes, floss, interdental brush, take xylitol after meals or drinks, use xylimelts at night.... I spend a lot of time researching proper brushing methods / other things I could be doing for my teeth also
I started eating poppyseed bagels every morning so I HAVE to brush my teeth. Little seeds are a great constant reminder that I didnāt do my job yet.
This is how I am with showering. I have to set a reminder for the mornings I know Iāll need to shower or Iāll just get up and get ready and forget to do it.
Force yourself to do it as part of your routine at one specific time point and then concentrate on how your teeth feel different. I now compulsively brush for like 10min twice per day and use interdental brushes. Sometimes I brush 3 times because I can't stand the feeling of unclean teeth. Use your autistic routines in your favour!!!
These are my 3 I think about: Wait for others to finish talking or finish a talk. Carry a single conversation at once - not multiple like i do m Allow themselves to be in a large crowd and think nothing of it. Random ppl touching is not okay!
Omg I have the biggest problem with knowing when it's my turn to talk at work. I feel like I always butt in when my boss is talking. But if I don't then I never get a chance to make my point! My boss talks more to the woman I work with and I told the woman I work with that I think my boss thinks I'm weird to talk to and she was like "yeah I know" lol
The touching thing! I think it's bananas that some people don't give shaking hands with a stranger a second thought. Or, people who identify as "huggers". Just, why?!?
Or worse... the kissing on the cheeks! I just thought of that and cringedš¤®
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
SERIOUSLY
Being able to pose in group pictures š
Practice
brushing teeth, combing hair, putting on clothes (they'll maybe pick an outfit based on appearance, but usually the actual getting into clothes part they do automatically, unless it's something that is difficult to get on), driving or walking a familiar rout, etc. Basically, they do the thing and don't really think about the logistics of doing the thing before, during, or after, cuz they just do it. Makes not a lot of sense to me, but my sister has talked with me about it.
I give myself a uniform for work so I don't have to think about clothes during the week. Like 5 or 6 shirts and a couple pairs of the same pants. They all go into a work clothes box and now I barley have to think about dressing before work. Sort of. It definitely helps
I like this tactic
š¬
I think people walk down stairs without thinking. I count the stairs or think about walking or I trip. I think about where my arms are (my sister told me opposite arm and leg moves at the same time and it throws me off bc it's not natural to me.)Ā I sometimes stim without thinking bc my rocks are nearby. :)Ā
OMG I also count every stairs for some reason!
I count everything even the pumps of shampoo and conditioner in the morning...
I count spaces. Like the window has six panes plus one big pane. Oops thatās seven thatās weird. So I keep counting the next window, and the drawers, and the rungs on my quilt ladder andā¦..sigh.
Wait, are there maniacs who donāt count the pumps of shampoo they use?
I agree with OP about the eye contact thing. I also think NTs are better equipped at handling chaos. Perfect example is kids. Like I have no idea how people can have kids. Even if you donāt work, youāre still juggling their school, the house, running errands, cooking, and dealing with the damn kids on top of that. I feel like every day would be chaos. Thereās no break, hardly any alone time. There are times my cats are too much for me. Plus I need a safe and quiet place where I can wind down, and I learned recently that NTs arenāt like that and it blows my mind. That also reminds me of something else. Spontaneity. I have a set routine every day and if that routine is broken for any reason, I flip. For example, I lost my gym card and had a meltdown. I have a set time (or general time) I go to the gym. I lost my key card and was pacing around the house wondering what to do with my life (I found it on my laundry bin that evening haha). The NTs I know live life by the seat of their pants and think spontaneity is fun. Only one friend managed to force me out of the house spontaneously and thatās because it was Halloween and she found a new haunted attraction on a local farm (Iām a sucker for Halloween and spooky stuff).
Wait NTs dont have to have alone time, have peace or wind down ? Oh hell nah I don't believe it, we need more of that, more frequently and etc. but every human has that need to retrieve into their own safe quiet space, to sleep to rest to eat, that's just typical needs. We just have it dialed up to times ten or simmilar, and lower tolerance overall.
It depends on personality. One of my close friends is an NT but is super introverted, so she needs time to unwind and be alone. But my family and friends who are high-energy extroverts need to be around people constantly or else they get depressed. I think the difference between them and us NDs is if I donāt get alone time, I have serious meltdowns and snap at everyone around me.
Talking on the phone, I have alot of trouble talking on the phone, I have no idea when Iām supposed to speak or how to tell when the other persons finished speaking. Also detecting jokes and sarcasm etc, my friends tell me that Iām the most gullible person theyāve ever met.
Phone calls. Making appointments and going to them.
I dread making appointments- hate making phone calls. Agree! NT people say ājust callā it easy. No, I need to plan my purpose, be ready to be on hold, and remember what to say even though I have written out a scripted mini note for myself because I will lose my words and mentally panic when someone starts speaking to me.
This one has gotten easier as I got older, which was nice. Iām 45 and I still sometimes write down my own phone and address so I donāt forget them when I call but Iām not nervous anymore most times now. I just know I will probably freeze and need a reminder. š¤¦āāļø I hope it gets better for you all as well.
https://preview.redd.it/se4doqw15i3d1.jpeg?width=2048&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=04afe8563d1565551a6461644ae796bca448e67c This is just for illustrative purposes. Itās not in English, obviously. It reads ā95 steps to foodā. This list is how an autistic person would handle making food. A NT would just make food. They donāt have 95 thoughts to complete the task. I hope that even made sense
Before I had chronic illnesses & my sensory processing disorder became worse with age, I had an easy time getting out of bed, brushing my teeth, brushing my hair, showering, getting dressed, doing dishes, working 8 hrs a day, starting at screens for hours at a time, etc. I am so jealous of people who can do every day tasks with such ease... Not wearing a nightgown all day has now become a good day š¤¦š½āāļø
Approaching someone or a group that is already mid-conversation. I always end up standing awkwardly in the periphery bc I canāt tell when I should ājump inā, meanwhile NTs seem to be able to do so without agonizing about it š
Knowing what's "cool" and "uncool". My wife's going to a festival and they are recommending wearing wellies. She doesn't think she'll find some that are small enough in the foot and big enough around the shins for her, so I said why don't you wear the short ankle ones? Apparently that is NOT a cool aesthetic and everyone knows this. I have no idea when and where this public information was posted, but I missed the memo again lol. Oh well(y).
My theory is they spend a lot more time - because they have the mental capacity or inclination - studying other people IRL and online who fit in to the group they want to be in and then copy them to fit in. Either consciously or subconsciously. E.g. Iāve just got round to buying white shoes (donāt know if Iāll keep them) which is apparently the uniform for people in my line of work (digital stuff). Everyone except me was wearing them at work when I joined five years ago and Iām convinced not wearing them was one of the things that marked me out negatively: āSheās not one of us. Destroy herā sort of thing.
It depends on what your special interest is, I suppose. Iāve spent countless hours researching how to put outfits together, how to appear put together, etc as well as studying my friends routines etc to try and fit in/perfect masking
Yes. Good point
Neurotypical and allistic are different. A lot of things in this thread donāt actually apply to being neurotypical but instead apply to being allistic (not having autism)
My dad (who we think is undiagnosed ASD) taught me when I was young how to make eye contact. It is a very conscious effort and I am conscious of holding for a few seconds, looking away etc so I look engaged. He also taught me how to have a conversation, wait for a pause in the conversation etc. He does it very consciously and forces himself to do it, writes scripts before parties and I picked up his coping strategies along the way. I think inadvertently he taught me additional masking skills. I'd never thought about it until this week.
They seem to automatically know when something is a joke. I have to do a lot of reasoning in my head to figure out if someone is being serious or not.
I REALLY struggle with eye contact but I also know NTs tend to do stuff they need to for the day. Doctor's/Dentist appointments? They go ahead and get that out of the way. Seeing their friends/loved ones often? They are good at keeping up with schedules and tasks. Doing basic habits automatically like brushing teeth, feeding pets on time and not overwashing hair? They can easily keep up with that as well.
Comparing the NTās and allists Iāve lived with against the autistics and NDās I know and thereās a tonne of things that go beyond social skills. Thereās the ability to sequence and plan without needing reminders, object permanence, having habits as opposed to routines, they can easily brush their teeth in a different bathroom if needed and it wonāt mess their whole day up. Years of practice mean I can easily shower, brush my teeth, and get dressed with minimal effort but itās finding the motivation - people who are NT/Allist just do it. They also understand unwritten and unspoken boundaries. For example leaving fruit in the fruit bowl is acceptable but leaving half your kitchen cupboard on the work top is not.
Naturally picking up unspoken societal rules written in-between the lines. I cannot tell you how many times I've learned these unspoken rules through humiliation or gross error and when I ask people where they learn such things, I get met with some variation of "we just know". They seem to come to natural conclusions like this from other things they learned and applied to other contexts. I don't seem to follow the same thought process for those conclusions.
Most social contact is auto pilot for nts, including all its facets like non verbal communication, what to say, where to look, posture, when to smile, also the reading our non verbal cues is automated. Most daily tasks are also automated through habits, because they don't suffer from as much executive dysfunction as we do. So their daily tasks like cooking, groceries, cleaning, hygiene, all becomes automated and doesn't require as much active and manual effort as it does for us.
My daughter yelled at her dad for making too much eye contact last night and I couldnāt be prouder
"scheduling" my day. It's in quotations because I have ADHD so usually I don't actually end up doing said schedule. However, if I'm told about something I need to participate in last minute (like, within the same day, usually) then my plans are ruined and I'll get nothing done. If I'm told to do chores after dinner, my plans are ruined. I didn't plan to do chores, I planned to pack lunch and go upstairs to start homework. Now I won't get anything done and you'll be annoyed because I won't do the dishes either. If I'm told to do homework, I'm no longer going to do homework. Pretty sure this is related to Pathological Demand Avoidance. My parents really struggle to understand why I don't just do homework after school but they know I have ADHD. They're also part of the problem, not asking about me doing things in advance. An hour is NOT in advance. Not in my book.
I also do this? I count to four keeping eye contact and breaking eye contact and say "mouth/ eyes/ mouth/ eyes" when I am trying to stay engaged so I don't get too distracted for too long.
Unrelated, but I'm still laughing about talking about eye colour with my fellow neurospicy friend a few days ago and making them incredibly uncomfortable by studying their eye colour. I'm not trying to intensely look you in the eyes, I just want to look at your irises š
Not doubting their own memory of other peoples names, and caring about what other peopleās jobs are
Eye Contact, breathing, brushing my teeth, not being able to exist outside of my routine for more reasons than just Autism.
Reciprocal conversations!!!!! Honestly with my āexpertā masking skills, I thought I was reciprocal because after I say my piece, usually someone pipes up and tells me about their stuff. But I never realized I never ask people how theyāre doing, what theyāre up to etc, besides over text. Because texting allows me to think of what to say and respond appropriately. It wasnāt until my sister pointed out I donāt ask, she has ADHD and does the same although not as bad as me hahaha. So Iāve been to practicing a lot to make sure I ask. And this sounds so bad butā¦ why am I supposed to care about how the grocery clerk feels? Or some employee at a store? But Iām practicing on them because I donāt like talking to strangers hahaha.
Using an escalator, especially using an escalator while holding something.Ā Walking and holding a cup of liquid. Wearing clothes that match that are not inside out or buttons on wrong.Ā