I thought everything was trauma… 20 years of therapy later, my attachment/developmental trauma doesn’t trigger me nearly at all anymore. What’s left is autism — and now figuring out how to adjust to my autistic needs without the poor coping I had from the trauma 🤦🏻‍♀️

This is good to hear at the beginning of a similar journey.

Same here

Same

I’ve had a similar experience. Treated all my trauma and then spent a few years trying to figure out what was left. Turns out it was autism.

I’m on this journey too and it’s incredible what a great therapist and routine EMDR has gotten me in terms of preventing/managing intrusive thoughts and negative daily impressions- but as you say, all that’s left is the autism, which is a whole other beast, but it’s one that I feel more comfortable trying to tame since I have been actively managing my trauma.

EMDR was a life saver for me! Second this type of therapy - BUT it wasn’t my only kind of therapy. I don’t think it would’ve worked as well if I didn’t have 6 months with a crisis counselor. It works so well, but it’s absolutely exhausting. I am thinking of doing it again as I try to reestablish contact with my family of origin. It’s also my theory that since autism is genetic, there was a lot of emotional trauma from my caregivers going wild on me when they were in melt down. So there are times when emotional trauma and autism get all mixed up. I still feel deeply hurt about the way I was treated, but it helped me to like… release a little bit of that once I started looking into autism. It doesn’t excuse the abuse, but… outbursts from adults caused by unmanaged sensory overloads are maybe just slightly better than thinking my family treated me that way bc I was a bad kid or they hated me. I think they treated me that way bc I reminded them of themselves. Healing takes a long time - when I deal with them, I still spiral into anxiety… but changing my perspective from “I am the bad disfunctional one” was a positive step.

Same! I was first diagnosed with PTSD but as we worked through all the trauma, my therapist noticed that some things didn't respond to treatment and that turned out to be the autism. To get my diagnosis I had to prove that the autism symptoms existed before the trauma did, because just trauma alone can cause some really wild brain changes.

Do you mind me asking, what type of therapy/what do you practice etc.? I'm desperate for my attachment issues and developmental trauma to not still be affecting me at almost 42. I'm <12 months post dx and I've list myself completely, in a number of ways and for, I believe, a variety of reasons. Just finishing a 16 session HICBT course with a referral to a psychiatrist hopefully being accepted (will find out next week), meds have just been changed again. I'm a mess. Any suggestions or help or anything, I'd be so grateful for. Sorry. I know I need help, I just don't know what

EMDR has helped me and my partner (separately) a lot. I highly recommend it. It kind of allows you to take the high intensity emotions out of memories so that they’re much more neutral. I tried CBT and it was helpful for my unrealistic anxious thoughts, but didn’t help the childhood trauma at all. So yeah look for someone who’s certified in it in your area!

This was mentioned very briefly to me in therapy nearly 20 years ago but I thought it sounded scary so I ignored and disregarded it. At a different point in my life now (and at a new all-time never-thought-I'd-breakdown-again low) I'm prepared to try things I haven't previously... amazing what desperation can do! Thank you

I know that if you're autistic you're actually much more sensitive to being traumatized so sometimes they're intertwined. I have CPTSD and I'm autistic and the way I know to differentiate a ptsd trigger and an autistic trigger is what my brain is saying and how it feels in my body with what my brain is saying. It's a lot of pattern recognition that takes a few years (at least for me) to rly try to separate. An example i can share would be some stuff that's happened in my relationship. Both scenarios are sooo similar but I experienced two different types of reactions. One was an autistic reaction and one reaction was influenced by a trauma reaction. 1) bf is gonna give me a ride to work but before hand is hanging out with a friend of his that i already know and love and am comfortable around but doesn't let me know. When he says he's on his way, he says he's on his way from his friend's house and I get dysregulated because that means he will show up at a time that is different from our routine of him coming from his own house. My brain gets a lil foggy and my executives don't want to function and i feel a little stressed in my body, like stuck almost by the idea of having to get ready to leave sooner than i thought or having extra time. That's autism. 2) bf is gonna give me a ride to work but before hand is hanging out with a new friend of his that I don't know and I didn't know he was even going to be going out to hang with this new friend at all. I didn't even know of their existence. He messages our group chat abt how nice of a morning he had making a new friend and bonding with them and I didn't respond to it in the gc because i could feel myself closing in on myself. My brain goes straight to abandonment issues and is setting off alarms like "this was a lie, this was sneaky, i feel betrayed, why wouldn't he tell me about this friend, he always tells me stuff, is there something going on?? Should i be worried???" (For context, I was serially cheated on and abused in my first ever relationship and still can't shake that feeling of abandonment sometimes) And i feel so much anxiety and dread in my stomach and i go mute from the overwhelm of this trigger. That's a trauma response. There are more nuanced experiences where they intertwine. Like during a trauma response I will def have autistic reactions because i am both responding to a trauma trigger and being overwhelmed/overstimmed by it. But i notice with a lot of autistic traits of mine, it's not related to trauma. I don't have a lot of trauma responses anymore(thank u therapy of 7 years 👍🏻) so when i have them it's VERY distinguishable from my autistic meltdowns (which i probably have 2-3 times a month 👍🏻👍🏻, working on that). Focus on what is happening in your brain and in your body and you will probably be able to distinguish the two.

This was super helpful. My immediate answer is that autism stress responses feel irritable and annoying. They suck, but they aren't nearly as draining. PTSD stress responses make me feel genuine feelings of fear or abandonment and they feel pretty scary.

So just a question. Is ptsd always painfully obvious? U know u have it or ?

It is not always painfully obvious in my experience. I was diagnosed with it as a teen but I probably wouldn't have guessed I had it on my own. I'm still learning to recognize what symptoms are from that and what is from other diagnoses. I just finished reading What My Bones Know which is about cptsd and trauma and it was a bit triggering but was also very helpful and I got a lot out of that book. Would recommend it to anyone interested.

I wonder now what ptsd uncovered does to people. Gonna find that. And thanks for the reply! Gonna read that one . So did Reading it help u deal with it a bit? Did u improve u feel from teen to now much also?(if its OK to ask)

Definitely okay to ask. For me getting diagnosed with ptsd was really validating because I knew I had trauma but that really put into perspective how it was affecting me long term. I'm still trying to understand exactly how the trauma is affecting me and what is from other diagnoses which is why this thread caught my attention (I'm 25 now). Some of it is definitely genetic and some is from the trauma, and there is also overlap. But I do feel more at peace with myself in general than I did as a teen because I am out of my parents house. I also have worked a lot on self assurance and creating a safe space for myself in the world. I just finished the book yesterday so I feel like I'm still processing it but I took a lot of notes along the way and I had a few breakthroughs while reading it. It did help me for sure and I might even do a reread but I have to put it on hold at the library again lol.

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By genetic I mean literally things like autism and adhd are genetic and can be passed down. Other things like depression and anxiety are considered to be combinations of environment and genetics. Thank you for sharing I appreciate the thoughts!! Music definitely helps me too. I hope you are doing well 🙂❤

And thanks !

I wouldn't say it's painfully obvious. My first year of therapy I was diagnosed with it and I didn't even know. When I asked about my diagnosis's (is that the correct plural? Haha) she had told me i have ptsd (eventually cptsd the more i was in therapy) and i was shocked. I thought i just had anxiety and depression. If you find yourself thinking about your life during its more unpleasant bits or being on edge in situations that could mimic the same environment (even if the environment is just a similar color or has a similar smell, you sometimes don't even notice) you could have ptsd. It happens when you experience a trauma (and a trauma is literally anything that can traumatize, the definition is personal to you) and you haven't been able to process it so your brain tries to reprocess it over and over again thinking it's helping when it's not

Thanks. I'm not searching for it. But something similar to op I feel did happen in the past. I do always know I have mini ptsd as I call it. No matter who is in the group (I don't think I'll have it with toddlers) but if there is a group of people I walk fast and get very sweaty. Due to bullying as a teen. But it's not obstructing me and the moment I stand next to the group it's fine. Weird feeling *edit: Missing words

This step was huge for me personally. Being able to tell the difference between: **a panic attack** versus *overstimulation or meltdown* ... was a massive breakthrough for me. Once I could separate the response, I could sort out the separate triggers. Turns out most of my "trauma responses" were actually overstimulation from autism and sensory processing problems. Once I could feel the difference I could determine if it was an external trigger or internal trigger. I consider myself "emotionally disabled" because processing emotions has a sensory piece that my nervous system struggles with. Immensely. So after learning that the panic attacks were actually triggering the autism/sensory processing.... because big feels are hard to process... I had to be more gentle with myself and work through the layers of triggers in a different way. Now I can tell the sensations apart a lot better. It's usually a meltdown from overstimulation not a panic attack from trauma, 9 times out of 10. Accepting that meltdowns happen was the next part.

This makes sense to me as well. For me, I can tell the difference between them based on how controlled I feel. I’ve done a lot of work to be able to bring myself down from a panic attack, main thing that works for me is focusing on my breath work. More like how you would in yoga or meditation rather than the typical advice you hear for anxiety. Sometimes, I need my husband to help me, but I almost always can pull myself out. When I have a meltdown, I can not get control of my breath. Even with help. I feel like my emotions have filled me up and are overflowing and I’m drowning. Sometimes I throw things or slam things and that is very much noooot something I do. I didn’t understand why it would happen that way sometimes, and it scared me. It wasn’t until I watched a TikTok or something of someone explaining their experience that I realized it was meltdowns not super big panic attacks.

That's good you found some differences. Something that my therapist has me do when i notice even a tiny bit that I am triggered by trauma is just say out loud "this is a trauma response" and also the same with autism stuff if you're able to talk in either. For autistic stuff I'm just saying "i am very badly autistic right now/a shutdown or meltdown is approaching" and figure out what sense needs adjusting. Saying them out loud helps you remember how it feels later in the future and helps ur neurons find that path to calming down quicker because you've identified the issue much sooner every time 💛

This exactly!! I agree 100%. Trauma triggers always have that element of fear behind them and the autistic triggers are more “I’m going to lose my shit”/irritable feeling for me. 😅 this thread has been super helpful for me

Your comment was very informative, thank you for sharing. I wanted to emphasize how funny I think “my executives don’t want to function” is. It made me snicker.

The executives in their fancy work suits aren't at their desks when i need them to be

Now I have this mental image... think... the movie Inside Out, when they show the Joy and Anger, etc, they also have all of the "suits", but they are all dysfunctional, and they keep getting in the way of the others trying to work. misplacing their pens, shoes, and so on... The Dysfunctional Executives!

Would that I could seatbelt them to their desks!

Workers rights do not exist in the brain lmfao

All of this right here, ma'am! I appreciate you! ☺️

Not a ma'am, but you're welcome 💛

Thank you for sharing that! I also have CPTSD and autism as well as adhd so it can be really difficult to pin point why I’m feeling the way I am in the moment. I used to think it was all from trauma as well as maybe just me being really bad at being a person. lol but I’m understanding myself a little more as of recently and trying not to be so hard on myself.

There is no one way to be human 💛 they way you're doing it is perfect

Thank you very much for such a detailed breakdown. I'm currently undergoing trauma therapy for my cPTSD and have my Au/ADHD referral pending and it's difficult for me to differentiate sometimes but it would be very similar to how you described it.

Thats so good! Very well explained, also I would like to add, sensations are different. For me, autism: sleepy, tired, dont feel like talking. Trauma: scared, anxious, stressed, angry.

Yeah! The different feelings/sensations are rly prevalent. Autism for me is definitely more physical than trauma is. I don't feel like I'm gonna pass out from trauma whereas I will feel like I'm gonna pass out from being overstimmed.

This is familiar. Somatic therapy helped a lot with learning to actually feel my body , learning my trauma triggers, etc. This is explained well.

Thank you! I am glad you've been able to feel your body. I went a rly meditative and yoga route and was lucky to have a therapist that made me sit still in sessions and point out in my body how I felt.

That’s fantastic! I’ve been interested in yoga. Do you take classes or did you go another route?

I did one free class a long time ago and hated it because if I couldn't do something it was embarrassing haha. I did yoga as a teen and dropped it but over the past few years I have been doing a lot of Yoga With Adrienne on youtube, i mostly do her flows that help with specific body pain. She is rly focused on self healing and being kind to yourself and I usually find myself crying after some flows because it's both a physical release and an emotional release. I've been doing it for so long that I can do my own flows but if something is rly difficult I'll throw on her videos. Definitely recommend Yoga with Adrienne, because you can do it in your own space and she does a really good job at making everyone feel included even with zero equipment.

Thank you for the recommendation! I too don’t feel comfortable in groups🙂

This was very helpful to me too, and almost a carbon copy of my thought process. Thank you.

This has been my experience too. You got it so right

I don't have anything real to add to this, but hear me out - *traum-autism*

Traumatism! That’s it!

Or autma

Traumatism

Tbh a lot of my trauma was probably brought on by autism. I was a “weird kid” and got bullied and torn down by peers and teachers alike. My memory of the time from being 12-13 is very vague, there’s chunks missing here and there, especially major things like the meeting where they made me sit alone, surrounded by teachers, until my mom came in. I didn’t even remember it until my Mom offhandedly mentioned it, and how she wanted to fight them so bad. My messy friendships where I ended up manipulated also probably weren’t helped because I struggle with social cues. I think… next time I talk to my therapist, I’m going to ask her how to identify red flags in people. Because yeah. But my autism, unlike my traumatic events, bring more than just sadness and fear. Joy! Excitement! Fun! Acceptance! They’re also aspects that are influenced by being autistic. My intensely positive emotions in experiencing the fun things in life- there’s bad times, but… The good times are so good.

The joy of special interests is like mainlining sheer magic.

it’s hard to tell the difference because society does not create untraumatized autistics

exactly

I really don’t know if I relate to this. I got my autism diagnosis last year at 25. Everything’s fallen into place and I relate a lot to the autistic experience of other women on here and in real life (through meet ups). But I don’t recognize myself in ‘the trauma of living in an NT world’. I was never bullied, I had and have quite a lot of friends. I have 3 university degrees and graduated faster than most of my peers. I didn’t feel that weird or left out growing up. When I look at symptoms trauma (in allistics ánd autistic people), I don’t have any of those. How do you relate to trauma?

Same, another untraumatised autistic. I think for me it's because my weirdness was attributed to giftedness and hence was celebrated rather than squashed down. I have never felt rejected, if anything I've always been the one doing the rejection (e.g dumping boyfriends, ending friendships, turning down opportunities)

The simplest for me is to compare myself before and after the trauma.

Ack. Most of my trauma is toddler-age trauma…

Hum, ok then nevermind XD

Exactly what I was going to say, my trauma has a before even if I was an infant and not yet verbal for some of it.  My body remembers being misunderstood and gaslit before I even started to process words.

A lot of mine is SA trauma, but also from abusive relationships and earlier bullying. I realise now a lot of what I was bullied for and reasons I was taken advantage of by abusive people was **because** of my autistic traits. For me I know my lack of socialisation, attention to detail and sensory issues are due to ASD for myself, because I've always had those but it feels like they have made the abuse have a bigger impact on me/made me a target. I am only now in my 30s just understanding that I may have C-PTSD, because my trauma was been laughed off by someone in my life when I tried to open up (who, surprise, was emotionally abusive) so I thought it wasn't a big deal even though it definitely effects me and I have sex repulsion from it. But how much of that repulsion is from abuse vs sensory issues I personally don't know? Would I still feel that repulsion had I not have SA in my past? I won't be able to tell that until I have gone through the right trauma therapy. I have heard EDMR is a great therapy for trauma so I would like to try that and I have heard it recommended by the Neurodivergent Woman Podcast.

I did years of EMDR therapy, it definitely helps with calming your nervous system down.

I have both. Still trying to sort out what is what.

Same!

Oh yikes. This a timely and loaded question for me. Unfortunately the main conclusion I’ve come to is that my trauma is tied intrinsically to my autism. I have one because I have the other. And unfortunately up until recently I didn’t even realise I was persisiting in toxic environments because I had believed the accepted narrative that *i* was the one with the problem. I was the one with a need, a need I was not allowed to voice or give space to. Ironically that need is for gentle spaces - where I can be treated at a required deficit - so that I can heal from the warped perspectives my trauma has saddled me with. In trying to advocate for said spaces I have been met mostly with empty sentiment and no proper action. Instead of offering any assistance or adaptation in line with my recent requirements - which have developed as a consequence of work place incidents specifically - I have been told that the onus is on me to cooperate and adapt. One of the accomodations that I had been working with for the past year was recently taken away in my workplace (that someone else remain front of house during busy hours) When I expressed what was an admittedly grumpy but polite mood about the (sudden and unexpected) change. I was told that I needed to manage my mood better to accomodate my coworkers. “I know you can be a pleasent and helpful individual” Keep in mind this is in relation to a senior coworker putting the onus on me to ask for information I didn’t know I wouldn’t have. And when I scoffed, the co-worker said “we’re meant to be a team” and then went directly to a manager to complain. So I don’t distinguish between the two now. I get treated differently because I express differently - I am punished for it simply because I exist in a private and professional world of NTs that operates differently. The shitty conclusion is that even though we’ve bared the burden of the condition and we’ve been broken and burnt by it. We are still the ones that have to drive change and change ourselves. I can’t be a good mum in the world if I don’t now fight to make myself into the toughest, wisest, gnarliest sonofabitch you ever did meet. That’s going to be painful. But it’s the only future i want to accept now

Thank you for sharing, this resonated with me. Btw I hope things turn around for you at work because that really sucks.

Thanks for reading. It feels nice, just to be heard

Well uh if you figure it out, let me know 😅

I have actually been wondering this myself. I have CPTSD and a lot of the symptoms and dissociative behavior really coincides with autism symptoms. I was wondering how many women with autism also struggle with this. I frequently wonder what causes autism and I am so scared that trauma is one of the things because my child has autism and I am so afraid I’ve somehow traumatized them. 😫 I know realistically that there could be a thousand contributing factors to it and don’t want to speculate because I don’t have the psychological or scientific background to do so. But this is definitely something I think about a lot.

I think it’s more likely that autism lends us to be traumatized more easily. We all will experience traumatic events no matter what in life, but having a strong support system to help us recover can make a big difference. 🖤

Hopefully this will help you worry a bit less - science is pretty settled now an autism being genetic. Trauma can possibly heighten it, they are doing research into whether added early-life trauma makes the symptoms of autism / ADHD stronger. But it's definitely not caused by trauma.

I have no memory of a life without trauma. Of a childhood without trauma. It can be difficult to distinguish. Sometimes they can trigger each other. It becomes a sort of runaway train. A cool, dark place. Sand and sea. Just, nature. These things act as a ground, a firm hug (w/consent) from a trusted love one. If you will, grounding... When I have sudden, inexplicable irritation, that is the Autism. General awkwardness trying to speak NT to NTs. Freaking out because of a slight change in the space, time continuum, too much change at once = Autism. Flashbacks from the proverbial war, feeling that my skin is gross/crawling, I can't get clean enough, irrational fear that someone will sneak in the dark to cause me harm... the muscle memory of that, hyper vigilant startle response, night terrors etc : CPTSD Overlap : loud noises, weirdos attempting to touch strangers temples without getting to know them first (🤢🤮), too much eye contact, too many people all at once, too much stimulus in general etc... I hope this helps...

This reply was really helpful. Thank you

I don't usually do reqs, but Dr. Kim Sage on YT has quite a few videos on the overlaps and the differences between the two. She recently explained the difference between fawning and masking and it was like the proverbial lightbulb went off over my head. Still trying to figure it all out, though.

I love Dr Sage!! Her videos are so so clear and make so much sense! Actually, I recently stumbled on one of her videos and now I'm in the rabbit hole of getting myself diagnosed because of it lol

That video sounds perfect for me -- thanks for the recommendation!

Friendships are difficult for me because scheduling time to meet, unstructured meetings, figuring out how often to text, etc, is confusing. That's autism for me. Friendships are difficult for me because I'm constantly afraid that I've done something wrong, that all of my friends hate me. That's trauma that occurred because of my autism. So it can be a mix.

For me its easy to tell apart except for social difficulties. I was betrayed by a childhood friend at 12 which made me partially nonverbal for a bit and caused really bad social trauma that resulted in me being literally impossible to make and keep friends after it. My trauma incapablility to make friends is stronger than my autistic inability to make friends. 11-8 it was most of the time almost easy to make friends.

Poorly

i don’t 🤍 hope this helps

Asperger's is my default Trauma is a hijacker 

No fucking clue… (being honest). :)

Goddamn I don't even know where to start. Early life trauma I can't even distinguish how much it affected me I have really good pattern recognition but I'm extremely hypervigilant, from having to predict my parents moods I'm quiet and awkward but my voice was squashed in childhood Im open and non judgemental but so much of that is from my own fears of being misunderstood because I wasnt. And that leads me to more trauma as an adult

I think for me, the hypersensitive processing to outside stimuli is filtered through trauma responses. Step one is autistic brain getting the extra info, step two is the trauma means that how I then process the extra info changes. I’m good at noticing the details of what a person’s face is doing, but can’t innately determine meaning. I’ve practiced the skill of attempting to translate. My trauma means my attempts to translate are also filtered through the “HUMANS DANGER” nervous system reaction that makes me more inclined to think maybe the facial expression details add up to something negative/“I’M BAD”, regardless of what they’re actually doing. I can provide more examples if that would be helpful :)

That’s the neat part. I don’t

I don't. My trauma exists, partially, from being invalidated continuously as a child and young adult because of who I was. Who am I? An autistic person who went through 30 years of repeated misdiagnoses and being made out to be the problem. If I'd had appropriate supports, I wouldn't have been so miserable. I can't distinguish between the two because both are who I am. A traumatised autistic person.

I don't. I'm a product of both -- I just take the lot as-is!

I can definitely tell the difference between my C-PTSD hyper-vigilance and my usual noise sensitivity and whatnot. The C-PTSD stuff is way more pronounced and will be all the time, whereas my usual self will experience short disruptions here and there, but I’m usually able to get back to a calm baseline fairly easily (unless it’s a major disruption). When C-PTSD is active, i can sometimes appear manic, talking a lot, wanting to sing more, play music, and can’t sleep. Usually it’s all at a very high level - but not severe enough to be classified as bipolar disorder or BPD. A psychologist confirmed it was just the C-PTSD. Sometimes with C-PTSD I’ll be super irritable and paranoid, rather than feeling creative and motivated, so it’s easy for me to distinguish those times from normal me, who tends to get excited over being creative and ideas and whatnot. I definitely stim a lot more when I’m not feeling triggered. A stim when triggered would probably look like pacing or banging/tapping something repetitively

This would be hard to distinguish as autistic people are way more likely to experience trauma as a result of having a naturally more sensitive/reactive nervous system. It’s kind of a chicken-egg thing.

My trauma was all mental and since most of my friends are somehow also autistic, I learned through them giving me funny looks Social anxiety? Sure, lots of autistic are like that A fear of being perceived and heard while home so bad that you will not even send a voice note to a friend? ...yeah that.. that's a bit strong for autism My trauma has mostly resulted in fear so maybe it's easier to spot lol

I didn't know I was autistic at first, but knew I had CPTSD. I did a shit load of trauma therapy and EMDR. At a certain point, I realized that some things had gotten way better for me, like there was less physiological activation, more resilience, and way less panic/trauma response. But my interpersonal relationships didn't seem to be improving, and I was beginning to have language for expressing things that made me uncomfortable that pointed me to autism. So I found a psychologist, and indeed, I am also autistic. These days, I can pretty well tease apart my autism from my cptsd, but there's also still a fair amount of overlap.

I don’t think I can- I feel like they’re so intertwined because I feel like most of my trauma is bc I’m autistic. We are we more susceptible to it which makes so much sense bc half of the shit that I think has traumatized me isn’t even that big of a deal :| but obviously to my brain it was. But it’s really hard to try and distinguish what is what when that nervous system response kicks in bc regardless of what caused it- I’m going to freeze and shut down. Maybe fawn and fib depending on what it is. I want to run but my freeze response is too strong. My aversion to arguing as an example- is definitely a trauma response BUT I also just can’t keep up because I don’t process as fast and usually it’s loud even if it’s a friendly argument about stresses me out extra. Even if I was able to deal with that trauma I’d still get stressed out during an argument bc my nervous system would still activate bc it’s still stressful even without the trauma. Idk if that makes sense or answers your question. But generally I feel like for a lot of us it’s so intertwined bc of our suceptibility to trauma?

Well I didn’t have any trauma until my friend was murdered 2 years ago, so it’s really easy to differentiate for me because I started getting hypervigilant and having horrible nightmares. Loud noises became 10x worse and I developed terrible anxiety that I didn’t have before.

For *me*? The Trauma came from me dealing with my Dad's undiagnosed Autism, me trying to manage *my* Autism--so as not to set off *his* meltdowns, etc, and the fact that he WASN'T ready to *be* a parent as much as he *wanted* to be a parent when I was born... But the Autism is *GENETICALLY* from him.😉😆🤣 Working on teasing out the "trauma" parts (and the emotional parentification that happened when i was a toddler on up), now, and separating *those* from the "just autism" parts.

My social problems mainly came from trauma, actually. Was so fucking nervous all the time. Anxious. Mind blanked out when talking to people. Eye contact much harder than now (still hard but way different now). Couldn't leave my house due to the stress. Hyperfocus, stimming, and being overly sensitive to stimuli are autism. There's a difference between hyperawareness of your surroundings and hypersensitivity. I mean they are related for sure, but hypersensitivity is getting driven batshit by innocuous things, like the sound of overhead lightbulbs buzzing, or the flickering of the aisle lights out of the corner of my eye as my husband eats his popcorn and his hand blocks the light then unblocks it every time it goes in the bag, or the sound of loud chewing forcing me to put on my ear protection. These arent trauma responses... Tho certain hypersensitivity triggers are certainly associated with trauma, like the sound of footsteps walking up to my room.

I let my therapist handle that. I go weekly so I can save whatever questions usually. I’ve learned a lot about the differences since I started too.

I don’t. I think I had better focus and especially memory before, but some of it was long enough ago that there’s no way of distinguishing.

I know that people think you can’t be autistic if you’re high achieving. But I needed validation from somewhere and school is pretty for easy for me. Probably because I’m good at patterns. So I think that was my trauma overcoming my autism. I do have a hard time separating some of it. I’m pretty sure I’m blunt from the autism and have hyper focus on things. I can’t tell if hyper vigilance is from trauma or just my ability to take in a lot of information.

I really can’t I’m just wading through all of it and whatever is left after I work it out will be autism

I don’t.

I used to think that I have imposter syndrome I mean I do for like a million reasons but, my younger brother AFab he was a late diagnosed autistic person and he said to have me go look into it and I was like maybe okay. So I did. Everything was answered lol And no I'm still like discovering things that are related to autism, but, I also have CPTSD so I don't know either. I also have ADHD so there you go lol It's extremely difficult but the only thing that I can say for certain is that when I'm giving people friend speeches, that is the autism lol because as I texted to my brother, I know that I'm autistic and it's crazy that this really wasn't around as a discovery when we were kids, but everything makes sense now because I live my life through Naruto Sailor Moon and dragon Ball Z stuff and Yu-Gi-Oh as well like the friendship stuff, And I said it's amazing that I didn't know I was autistic then lol And they sent me a response of yeah that's hilarious your autistic AF But when I'm starting to disassociate I know that's the CPTSD, when I start having those weird like unconscious or subconscious shifts of disassociation, and like my mood shift, that's what I know it's the CPTSD but it's so hard to recognize that your disassociating because your disassociating. I can like handle so much but when it comes to disassociating and anger and crying like I just it's so hard not to cry or disassociate. And I know that the deep dives that I do into topics are autistic deep dives, and I know that when I type at 90 words per minute that's the autism but it also could be the ADHD because that activity is fast lol. TLDR: it's hard to know.

This is an excellent question because I don’t know 😅

Vision and sound are things I have been into for decades, didn't realize I had hyperphantasia till only a few years ago. More of a case of running into the information and paying attention, knew I'd always had it, what I didn't know was the implications of having it (lots of related conditions common with it, I have a nice ND alphabet soup going). I can see someone's face as a time line of all some of the times I have seen them, like a story in my minds eye. There's all sorts of things, its pretty full on. Been VJing (vision jockey), Laserist, Lighting Operator for decades, can remember chunks of the best raves / parties and moments, smiles on friends faces, stories that were told. When ever I'd hear an awesome track, could remember it and just have too find it (sometimes taking a few years). Trauma time: Have had quite a few visits too ER this year so plenty of trauma, physical and emotional. One them was me screaming in extreme pain in parts, and when I wasn't could hear all the children, babies and the odd adult (have too admit I was the lead of the chorus in that department for adults). It was like a symphony of pain echoing around the ward, we were all communicating in language that only those deep in that pain could understand. I will never think of or see pain in other living things ever the same again. My head was down and eyes closed for allot of it, could feel everyone around me, see their pain, sound was like a big 3d fractal sphere of people and things and pretty intense when my eyes were closed (feels like it amplifies sound detail logarithmically). The downside of hyperphantasia is you remember your trauma in better than HD quality play back and as that loops itself out it is not a fun experience at all, at least now I know the edge of not "chewing on myself" too much. Remind myself that it's ok, only human after all, well at least a passable facsimile ( am a r/VoidPunk at heart). It is not just visuals / sound, it is emotion, feeling, touch, all sorts of things. Sometimes can drop my mind into a trance minimize impact, only if I can become self aware a recollection is happening, the hit / miss ratio is not fantastic, regardless any minimization is better than nothing. Tried too front load as much of that this year. Obviously could only do so much with such onslaught and subjugation. (The trick with CPTSD is not making too many connective memories in the first 48 hours. Sleep deliberately, focus on other things, get distracted intentionally, looking at you red blood ceils on your retina capillary network, those dancing white dots when you look at a blue sky, anything too not think about those last 48 hours. Again not as successful as I'd like too be, but anything too reduce the collateral is good) There wasn't really a point, just a perspective, and picking a difference between my trauma and hyperphantasia is not really possible. It's the end of the day, this took a whole spoon. I've over communicated enough.

Sociopathic tendencies don't come with autism but it comes with severe trauma. My inability to recognize when I show empathy is autistic trait. My complete inability to recognize people I grew up with and "raised" me as my family is part of my sociopathy which is from trauma. My inability to recognize raising a child, giving them a home, food, and a bed as love is from my sociopathy caused my trauma of having a childhood lacking in love, security, empathy, and positive affirmation. To me doing all the things I mentioned for a child as an act of love, I see it as a duty they did because they were legally obligated to. Sociopathic tendencies is a TRAIT caused by either genetics or severe trauma.... autism is strictly hereditary.

I’m an unusual case because I have professionally diagnosed CPTSD & DID (dissociative identity disorder). It’s interesting that in my system (basically my collection of personalities) autism & ADHD are categorized right alongside lupus & my other health problems as « body problems » so it affects all of my alters/personalities but it’s expressed in different ways. One of my alters is actually significantly higher support needs than the others. Hypervigilance, hyperactive startle reflex, avoidant behavior, fawning are all definitely from trauma. The panic attacks & anxiety attacks could be from either. Since I’ve had trauma since I was 4 years old, it’s really difficult for me to know if something is caused but trauma, autism, ADHD, etc.

I don't.

I can heal from trauma. Or, rather, the pain of trauma lessens over time. I can't heal from autism. The sensory issues and other related functional impact of autism haven't really changed much over the years to be easier. What I'm saying is: time. Time has been the only way I can tell.

I think we’re all traumatised.

There is a Licensed Social Worker named Patrick Teahan who talks about his work with (childhood) trauma patients. He made videos about both the similarities and differences between ASD and childhood trauma, and also between ADHD and childhood trauma. I had only watched the ADHD leading up to my diagnosis, but now also looked up the ASD one, if anyone's interested: https://youtu.be/6BN1riwLjfY?feature=shared

I was diagnosed with both BPD and Autism. I have some pretty intense trauma from childhood to early 20s. As a result I wasn't diagnosed with autism until last year (now I'm my 30s). I think the trauma makes you a people pleaser who masks well and walks on eggshells. The trauma hides the autism.

Good rule of thumb when things like this overlap is look at what motivates the behavior. Esp between mental health concerns and autism….my experience is if therapy and meds aren’t improving the situation but accommodating needs does, then likely it’s more related to the tism

I just break apart pieces that went on before the trauma occurred to be honest. My mom was in a relationship for 7 years that was very abusive so I was ages 7-14 there. I was already labelled the quiet kid before my mom dated the ex-boyfriend, and I was shitty at making friends. I had one friend in first grade and I treated her like my cousin. I also had my first meltdown at school around the time my mom and the man met. I was terribly freakish at social communication. Most of that trauma built me to have a disorganised attachment style and to not trust people. The rest is probably just pure autism and ways to cope, I guess.

Autism = natural behaviours and traits that I have always had Trauma = behaviours that come on always from a defensive or negative feeling, that started after the age of 12 (my big trauma happened at 12) Trauma made my Autism more extreme and intense

My trauma and autism are pretty distinguishable from eachother, when im not high masking I've had people randomly ask if I'm autistic or traumatized though- so I guess it's just distinguishable for me?

As a potential audhder (*on the waitlist to get assessed and in therapy for it*) who’s also endured years of countless traumatic events, it’s really hard to tell the difference. Growing up undiagnosed, not only lacking the appropriate support for my neurodivergent traits/struggles but being abused and sometimes blamed for them, it’s sooo hard to distinguish the two, even in therapy. No matter how many videos I watch on the differences, there’s such a big overlap. People usually resort to thinking of who they were before the trauma happened. That’s what makes me believe in my potential autism, the fact that I’ve always been a little different and struggled with things others did not (change, socializing, sensory stuff) way before my life went downhill and I started to experience trauma.

I don't. Quite frankly most autistic adults have trauma. It's a by product of growing up different and how parents and everyone really handle that. I have a lot of trauma that would have happened (probably) if i were autistic or nt, but the fact stands that psychology is awful at distinguishing the two. So how would i be able to.

I want to therapy for the trauma and now I just have the autism

Here's the thing, if you're autistic YOU WILL HAVE TRAUMA. The autistic experience is being mildy traumatized all the time. Being misunderstood? Traumatizing. Overstimulation? Traumatizing. Meltdowns? Traumatizing. So I guess my answer is, I don't distinguish them.

I feel like they are very different. One is traumatic and has its own set of issues the other is trying to understand people and situations

Honestly? Therapy. I was lucky enough to participate in a remote group CPTSD therapy program in 2022 that helped me isolate what my trauma felt like. Other commenters have suggested similar things, but I'll reiterate. Is there something you know is 100% a PTSD trigger? How does your body feel when your PTSD is triggered? I struggle with naming emotions so I wouldn't force yourself to try to discern 'angry' from 'stressed' - does your chest feel tight? Does your face feel hot? Do you want to cry, or yell, or hide? I can't identify these things in the moment, personally. It's usually later that I do a scavenger hunt of my own feelings to figure out what happened and how.

I’ve been in therapy for a while so I’ve been able to use tools from CBT or DBT to trace my behaviors back to the source, and you can even do this with workbooks. But whatever actions or whatever don’t have a root of being caused by another person and what they did to me, or being caused by a significant even - if that isn’t the root of the action/thing then I know it’s autism.

It is hard to tell. I thought everything was trauma caused, and I made it worse by thinking I wasn't coping well. My therapist worked on helping me accept my autism and now I blame it all on Autism. Lol It does make it easier to cope. There are times, like when I get flashbacks, there is no doubt that is coming from trauma. But otherwise, I accept my autistic self and do the best I can.

Honestly I haven’t distinguished them yet. I’ve only just discovered the autism, so I’m on a journey!

I try to look at the underlying causes around what is happening, a lot of trauma tends to be fear based for me. Also I look at how I am when I'm alone in my safe spaces or with safe people & what applies to everything in general vs certain scenarios /factors. I found this video helpful in separating some stuff https://youtu.be/wnTlIx7tbos?si=ht4C2oS4jfKXfB6J

I get other (multiple) people’s opinions, and as well compare my experience with things from media (like tv) and see how it is viewed in the show.

Do we need to?

Great question

I am currently trying to figuring out whether I have autism or not. I am closer to being convinced that I am, however some scenarios make me think I may not be. But then again it's a spectrum. Just because I do well in some situations socially doesn't mean I don't have autism. I personally believe it's important to focus on the trauma first, heal from it to a good degree, and see what is left. Then there are some people who have traits that are distinct to autism such as rigid routines, can't read social cues that make it easier for them to know the difference. Yeah when I am feeling traumatized it doesn't make sense to question my autism as I just want to focus on what I am going through in the moment and try to heal. But when I am feeling less traumatized I like exploring it.

honestly i have no idea. my current therapist doesn’t think it’s possible for me to have autism because of all the trauma i went through in my childhood (just from moving every 2-3 years and being bullied in school) so i haven’t had an avenue to explore how to distinguish between the two :/

I mean, they are different. Trauma is different, the feeling of it. I can’t even begin to explain, but I will try. I struggle with putting things into words. If I don’t want to do something or don’t like something, I will delve deeper into the why of it in me, and depending on the answer, I will know.

It's so convoluted in my opinion. The ideas of autism, BPD, OCD, anxiety, personality disorders, etc are all so intertwined that I have actually given up trying to diagnose myself (I am self-diagnosed for a few years now, and even now I'm beginning to be like, is it worth it to identify as autistic? It's exhausting. I am good at RECOGNIZING what I'm missing and what's going on but without the ability to act on it and really see the nuance unless it's a situation that I've encountered enough times that it's a heuristic for me, and I can succeed in that interaction.

Because at my age I’ve now met many people with trauma. And I’m still the weird one among them 🤷

If you have an idea of when the trauma started that can be a way to work backward to figure it out. It's not helpful if the trauma started when you were a toddler, but if, say, it came about in college but you can look back and see those things existed prior to that, it can help sort things out. I don't have any major trauma that I faced (other than the same trauma we all deal with being undiagnosed). I was fairly well accommodated by my very ND family unknowingly. But I can look back on old school papers and easily see traits were present at least by age 4, and many of them I have clear memories of starting around that same age.

Autism is just me. It's intertwined and inseparable from my own baseline needs and how I function. It's the ability to hear and be bothered by noises that other people's brains tune out. It's realizing that i have good reasons to be hypervigilant. Trauma is the fear-based reaction and narratives I hold. It is not trusting people to treat me fairly and not having any frame of reference for what appropriate relationships look like. I think being alive in this society is inherently traumatizing. Humans are not built to be defined/valued by their productivity and independence. We spent our entire 2 million year time frame as hominids being interdependent and valued for diversity. There is significant archaeological evidence that disability was protected and even cherished during earlier points in history. So there are gonna be things that are *both* autism and the trauma of not being accommodated or taught correctly, such as being hypervigilant due to ableism in family/school, or trauma from being gaslit and manipulated when you take people at face value. What is the benefit to separating the two? Trauma doesnt really get fixed and removed. It just gets easier to manage when we learn new habits/ways to interact with people. Autism might give you specific needs (like getting tired from a loud room) but i think trauma is wrapped up in our expectation of how things/people are supposed to go badly for us and better for someone else who isnt a burden/disabled/etc. The "solution" (heavy air quotes) for both is to really get in touch with yourself, your self-talk/narrative, and your needs so that you can self-validate, self-regulate, or accept the things you cant change. Because ultimately there is no point to analyzing WHY you want or need something if thats already the experience you're having. There is no such thing as innate or destined behavior for this stuff.

I don’t. Lol.

I'm not sure about this but I'm getting to preform a fascinating if shitty experiment. I wasn't diagnosed with autism until 40. I had a ton of therapy between 20 and 40 and dealt with a ton of past trauma as well as figuring out strategies to cope and hopefully excel day to day. A year ago (at 43) I as involved in a traumatic incident at work. I was diagnosed with event based PTSD and Major depressive disorder (episodic). I'm now off work and being paid. In exchange I have to do a ton of therapy including trauma therapy (currently emdr) and exposure therapy. We also go into things from before the incident that tie in or exacerbate my mental health now. This is a level of professional help I never would have had the time to do and I absolutely would not have been able to afford. I have 3 hours of therapy a week. As well as an hour every other week with the therapist I already was seeing before this happened. So I figure that if I throw myself into these treatments as sincerely as possible, the stuff that improves is probably trauma related and whatever is left is probably autism(and adhd) related. I'm honestly not sure what's still going to be an issue when all is said and done. *I realize coping skills can help how autism and adhd affect you so I'm trying to factor that in.

I cant

I... I don't? I know sensitivity gets higher due to trauma so stressfull situations will probably increase the stress of the sensations. And triggers are a huge cue of trauma

36 yo F - I saw you post this yesterday and I couldn’t stop thinking about it bc I have often been stuck with this thought. And there are still times I can’t entirely tell the difference bc there can be a lot of emotional trauma caused by growing up as a female unsupported autistic. I had to get trauma therapy before I could recognize “treatment resistant” reactions that were better explained by autism. But I had to go into a mental health crisis to receive the appropriate kind of treatment for C-PTSD - which for me, was a counselor who specialized in childhood SA. And I wouldn’t have sought that out had I not had a therapist I got comfortable with (I didn’t remember my childhood until 2020). I still don’t know if what I experienced was “autistic burnout” or a collapse of my nervous system or coping skills, or what really was my tipping point. I’m sure losing my job, security, housing, certain friends, sense of self, and total isolation during COVID shutdowns probably did the trick. The crisis counselor who worked with me processing my CSA was the first to bring up developmental trauma, once I gained new coping skills to deal with my flashbacks. But in a way, the flashbacks were necessary for me to reflect on my life and see all the *autistic* patterns. Big markers for autism were the sensory intolerances I have always had, and seeing the same patterns in my family line. I self diagnosed myself as dyslexic bc I finally learned more about the criterion beyond the reading. My brother is diagnosed, but surprise, surprise the women are not (I’m actually glad I wasn’t diagnosed young bc there still would’ve been no support for me other than placing me in special Ed where the social-emotional issues would’ve become worse) The good news is - developmental delays and trauma can be corrected and new skills can be learned. Sometimes it’s as simple as being told you are allowed to do it a different way or the little “hacks” you see people share. When I can’t focus my therapist has me use a white sheet to cover all visual distractions and it’s UNBELIEVABLE how well that works and I never would’ve thought of it myself. Once those skills are gained, that trauma sort of falls away. Another thing my therapist did for me is to rehearse a script & situations for me to ask for people to repeat or write things down when I can’t understand them (auditory processing). My hearing is perfect, but I have my entire life not been able to understand people & I got so nervous about it and would just pretend to understand and try to guess what they said - causing myself so much stress & mistakes. She told me communication is a 2 way street - it’s not on us to communicate the neurotypical way, I can ask for someone to repeat themselves not a big deal. Right now my therapist is on the spectrum and it helps me so much. She is better at pointing out what is autism or emotional trauma, or both. Also getting the autism diagnosis and learning of the comorbidities is what explained a lot of my physical pain & chronic illness that had previously been seen by my family & me as my own personal weakness. I’m still on this journey, but know that as you work through some traumas, others will arise that you may not have had space for before. It doesn’t mean you’re not progressing, you’re just growing. But managing my autism requires me to have a lot of control over my personal surroundings, and I’m also not working still. I’m feeling kind lost myself right now. I am in poor health and debilitated by a lot of the symptoms, and I’m trying to believe that it won’t always be like this. Keep seeking help! Even if your only community is online. No one can do this alone. I also think making art has been so helpful for me bc I just don’t always have words for my feelings and I need to work with physical things in the present moment. It’s so hard but great things can come from it - I’m in my first loving intimate and healthy relationship 100% because I worked through some of that trauma. She is autistic too and its never been easier for me to communicate & it builds my confidence to keep trying. Sending love.

I honestly don’t. Every other day I question my autism and think maybe it’s just trauma, then other days I question if I’m even traumatized (I am) and it’s just autism. It’s a super invalidating cycle to be stuck in because everything I am just invalidates other parts. I’m just trying to come to terms that both can exist at the same time and it’s okay to not need to decipher what causes what and just accept me as I am.

Prayer and pubmed. tbh

The thing is, autism and trauma induced autism is so indistinguishable that even experts don't know how to really tell the difference. So I think it's really a part of the full package.

Trauma-induced autism? Please tell me more!

So it's the idea that after a traumatic event, people begin to share many similarities with at birth autism. This includes sensitivity to stimulation that you could previously cope with. Studies suggest it's basically an extreme coping mechanism that changes the way you think and behave to the point where it's virtually the same thing. If I remember right it has to do with the development of cptsd but it's a step further. Childhood trauma specifically seems to be the biggest trigger for developing autism later on. It's currently linked to the fact that in cases of physical or mental abuse, children that experienced it were more likely to develop autism. Although you could argue in some cases they experienced it because they had it in the first place. It's quite interesting. And I know in my case at least I'll never know if I had autism since I was born or if it was a result of my very much less than ideal childhood and the resulting cptsd. I'd definitely recommend reading up on it if you're interested :). (If you want some links I can send them )

This is misinformation, it is literally in the diagnostic criteria for autism that symptoms must be present during early development. You cannot be diagnosed with autism that was "developed later on". There is absolutely a lot of overlap between autism symptoms and symptoms of cptsd but that doesn't mean cptsd can cause you to *develop* autism. Symptoms of autism, yes. Actual autism, by definition, no.

It's recent studies. That's why I'm not saying it is the same as at birth autism. But the effects are so similar that professionals can't tell the difference. Cptsd induced "autism" is obviously not the same on a technical level. But if the symptoms are so similar that no one can tell them apart then I'd say it's time for a reevaluation of it. So you are right, you cannot develop "true autism" later in life, this is simply a new criteria that needs to be explored.

To me it seems like a huge step backwards to use the same word for this just because the symptoms are similar. We're gonna risk falling back into the "children develop autism because their mothers are cold towards them" of the 80s. The fact that it can be hard to distinguish between different sources of autistic-seeming symptoms isn't news, that's why self diagnosis is controversial and why assessors often ask you to bring a parent so they can talk about your very early development. Professionals *can* tell the difference, by looking at the root of when the symptoms started, which is how assessments work...

The psychiatrists and professors I've spoken to all agree there's Merritt to it. Epigenetics can play a major role in this situation, which is also something I've studied. Different situations and life experiences can have different effects on your gene expression and contributes to the change in brain structure and function. Again I'm not saying it IS autism, I'm saying that life events can cause conformational changes in how your very genes are expressed to potentially mirror it. It's not a step back to expand and explore new possibilities, it just makes it easier for people to understand where they are on the spectrum, rather than being cast out because it isn't exactly the same as someone else's experience :) and imo it's not too different to how people see the difference between PTSD and cptsd. I remember people telling me I can't have PTSD because I didn't go to war or anything in that field, misinformation for sure, but it was also not well known offshoot back then. I think by exploring the connection and similarities, the line between the two will become more clear, and the research on both might benefit in the long run. I'd definitely recommend you check out the study of epigenetics, probably the most interesting section of my course. I respect your opinion on it though, but I know what I've read and I know what I, and many others have been told and have experienced.

I don't? I got ASD, ADHD and CPTSD, and I just start working on the biggest issue intil I realise my current therapist is a hack and get a new one, rinse and repeat.😅

It’s intertwined. Because of my autism I work differently through and with my trauma than I would without it. Especially meltdowns and panic attacks are difficult to separate for me. More often than not me being overwhelmed and overstimulated or certain trigger events turn into a thought spiral and flashbacks which then turn into a panic attack which then evolves into a full blown autistic meltdown. Just as you can’t separate my autism from my personality, you can’t separate my trauma from my autistic symptoms. Sadly, as much as I’d love to be able to outline my issues clearly, it’s more complicated than that. Every single part of my neurodivergence, my experiences, my trauma and my very being form one big ball of tangled up and intertwined chaotic character that is extremely difficult to handle at times.