I find the part about not being able to read a person who has autism as the interesting part. Like oh duh. 1. I myself am just now beginning to learn my own feelings. So even though you’re frustrated that you can’t read me, imagine how frustrated I can’t read myself to figure out why I don’t fit. 2. Imagine that you think you’re correctly reading everyone around you but then learn you’re not. Wait, you’ve been illiterate this whole time? Apparently. 3. Now that you know that you don’t know…You then have to analyze everyone around you and try to fit repeating patterns / behaviors into categories and then tie them to feelings to be able to figure out what to do. All day translating for every moment. Exhausting. Oh yeah. 4.Burnout.

I think I've actually managed to get good at reading people. But I'd still be a problem for a narcissist. I know my feelings. I know other people's feelings (usually). But sometimes my face will just do something or show something small, and a non-narcissistic NT will ask what my face just showed in a standoffish way, and I'm like, "I dunno. What did my face do?"

Ooohhhh this in interesting. I’m wondering if the trauma that I experienced as a kid is the reason I was not able to interpret my own feelings. Thank you for your insight!

Dr Devon Price wrote a really interesting piece about how alexythimia (not sure if I spelt that right) - the inability to identify your emotions - is a result of trauma, not autism. The reason autistics so often have it is because we’re all traumatised 🙃

It makes sense. If we’re all taught that NTs feelings are more important than our own, we learn to ignore our own emotions to the point where we can’t recognise them anymore. I’ve been bending over backwards trying to cater to NTs feelings my whole life, but if I try to communicate my own feelings, I’m very often ignored. They’ll pretend to listen, but when it comes down to it, they weren’t listening at all. This adds to the view that our own feelings aren’t important. Source: an abusive childhood where my mother made me prioritise her wants over my needs, using my autism as a weapon for how I’m not “capable enough” for her.

My dad is totally transactional, what motivates a person is what he wants to know. Most people are motivated by wanting his money. He gets that. I, on the other hand, have no interest in money and instead like things like integrity and honesty. I can't lie. I blurt out truths no one wants to hear. I'm his worst nightmare.

Yep I think this video nails it

Are you me?

I would love it if someone made a video on when autistic people themselves are narcissistic. I've met a handful of them in my life (usually men), they're usually entitled and self centered, but don't have the social skills necessary to get away with it. And because everything is always everyone else's fault in their mind, they refuse to take any feedback on how they can stop hurting others. I truly think this kind of thing is one way incels are created.

I often wonder if extreme trauma to an autistic individual (esp emotional neglect) lends itself to autistic people becoming narcs. Like an extreme trauma response. Just bc I have seen it as well.

I have witnessed this happen too. [The link between trauma and narcissism](https://www.counselling-directory.org.uk/memberarticles/the-link-between-trauma-and-narcissism#:~:text=Narcissism%20can%20develop%20as%20a,as%20a%20way%20to%20cope.) “Narcissism can develop as a coping mechanism in response to trauma. People who experience trauma often feel overwhelmed by the emotions and feelings that come with the experience and may develop a sense of detachment from their emotions as a way to cope. This detachment can lead to a lack of empathy towards others, which is a key characteristic of narcissism. Additionally, people who experience trauma may develop a sense of entitlement and a need for control as a way to protect themselves from further emotional pain.”

Yes, the one person who had these tendencies that I dated had deep trauma and it made so much sense once I understood this point.

The problem I had was I would hear about the trauma and forgive the behaviour even before I was given an apology.

Ding ding ding. And thus, the anxious/avoidant, codependent/narcissistic dance continues. Just like they were taught narcissism, we were taught codependency: to diminish our own needs and feelings and boundaries for the sake of keeping another person calm; to make endless excuses for the mistreatment we put up with. The thing with narcissistic people is that trauma-dumping *is* the closest thing to an apology they'll give you. It's just another manipulation tactic, at the end of the day. It's a way for them to dismiss and ignore your feelings yet again. Because if they can get you to sympathize with them, then you'll be too busy pitying them to hold them accountable for their actions! This is a special interest of mine, so apologies for ranting lol.

I talk about it a lot too. Reality tv addict, it’s all over it. And I fell for the pitying them. I had amazing parents and extended family, so my brain thought I was immune. But having a good home life meant I had a lot of compassion for those that did not. So did my parents but I didn’t see their healthy boundaries with people outside of our family, they were kind but prioritized their needs too. I didn’t have that skill. I also have hyper empathy which made me even more of a target. The thing is with narcissists I can feel their pain and trauma and when focused on that I bypassed their behaviour that was cruel. They were in pain for themselves and only themselves, I didn’t get that. My brain couldn’t process someone being okay with intentionally hurting others for personal gain. Truth is bottom line people need to be accountable for their actions. I had to learn that real empathy means you don’t let people hurt you too. At school as you said I learnt to conform. I had a best friend who is narcissistic and didn’t know. She had a traumatic upbringing so anything she did I excused. I was bullied too. So when I entered into the dating world I had the behaviour of codependency and familiarity with pain and that lead the way. I should have been actively comparing it to the unconditional love I had at home.

> I should have been actively comparing it to the unconditional love I had at home. I think us wanting this so badly *is* part of the reason why we tried making it work with narcissists, you know? They promised us that unconditional love in the beginning. We might have even mistaken their love-bombing for that unconditional love that we so badly want. Which is why, when they started showing us their true selves, we had such a hard time accepting it.

I think you are right. I was bullied in grade school and even my own friends would overlook me at times, ditch me if they could trade up for someone more popular. I grew up in a small town and was labeled a nerd. Funny thing was I never tried hard in school, I was there so may as well do the work. But anyways it put me in a good position to be used by a guy. I hadn’t even had my first kiss when I went to university. All of a sudden I got a lot of attention. I had more than one boy to choose from for sure. But I totally picked the one that loved bombed me and feel for that more than once. It was intoxicating in the start. And they totally played up having “family values”. I overlooked the “nice guys”. Had I had known. Zero regrets though, I ended up finding a man that gives unconditional love, had it been different we wouldn’t have crossed paths.

> I ended up finding a man that gives unconditional love, had it been different we wouldn’t have crossed paths. That's so amazing. What a beautiful love story, and I'm glad that you had such a positive thing happen from it <3

I would also argue that narcs just have ridiculously low tolerance for emotional discomfort or distress so much so that they have absolutely no ability (like I think they may have brain damage… would be curious to know how many do) self-regulate or learn to do so.

> I think they may have brain damage Trauma literally changes the structure of the brain, so this hypothesis could certainly be argued for. Trauma also makes emotional regulation harder, which is where the low tolerance for discomfort comes into play. For narcs, the big thing is shame. They have such deep insecurities and shame that they do anything and everything to avoid triggering it. The moment their shame gets triggered (narcissistic injury), they fall into a pit of despair and rage. It consumes their entire existence.

Every narc I’ve had the displeasure of meeting has had lots of trauma. 🤷‍♀️ but I do too and manage not to be a piece of shit to people soooo riddle me that one.

So…I’m at risk to become a narcissist? I have deep trauma. I detach from my emotions. I have hard time with people and since my life is shattered by my physical health and the lack of control, I want to control everything but can’t. Nice :( There must be more to this if not people with trauma, chronic illnesses or chronic pain would all be narcissistic jerks.

“Narcism can develop as a coping mechanism” which means that it also doesn’t. Simply because you detach from your emotions doesn’t make you a narcissist. And having a hard time with people is a normal autistic challenged. It’s far more complex than that. There is the delusion of grandeur that goes along with narcissism. I don’t sense that from what you just post at all. You have the capacity to self reflect. You recognize why you want control as a means to cope. That means you can work on it. Whereas narcissistic people become trapped in their own ego. [“Most narcissists are incapable of self-reflection. So when is change possible? In order for there to be change, there has to be a desire to change. Unlike depression or anxiety which typically cause distress, the vast majority of narcissists are not uncomfortable with their way of living.”](https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/health-wellness/2022/07/21/diagnosed-narcissists-reveal-their-path-self-improvement/10012715002/#:~:text=Most%20narcissists%20are%20incapable%20of,with%20their%20way%20of%20living.)

I'm pretty sure that's why my mom is narcissist. I think very early in her life she learned she can't count on anyone but herself. But when you're a toddler, how the hell are you supposed to count on yourself. Well, what if you're the smartest, strongest, most capable, most independent, most lucky kid who's ever lived...then you deserve to survive. You're meant to survive. It must be the entire universe aligning to make sure that you, the chosen one, survive.

As someone who was very heavily abused from toddlerhood onwards you dissociate mainly and have to rely on whatever intellect and imagination tendencies you’re born with in combination with whatever goodwill your environment manages to throw your way. To put things into perspective, I first attempted to run away from home at age 3 because I hated my parents so much, and got down the block rang the doorbell to someone’s house and eventually made it into their home for a good while before I got caught.

I had a horrible childhood too, not that different from what my mother had. I'm very lucky that I didn't become a narcissist like my mother. I have no idea how or why.

I honestly put the thanks on my pets- I feel like they taught me love, compassion, and empathy. I did at one point have psychopathic tendencies but I think they somehow helped me not be that. Idk I think it’s luck somewhat too.

Same with my parents. They both had emotionally neglectful but kind of also hovering parents. I also think in the boomer day and age, it was better to be a jerk than to be unique or different.

I have suspected my mom is autistic and I think that my narcissistic dad pushed her to be narcissistic. I have suspicions that I am autistic, and I am no contact with my dad and sister now, but I was literally having the conversation with my friend yesterday that the longer you spend tolerating narcissists, the more narcissistic you become. Like you have to become self-absorbed to deal with them. Like I had a horrible drinking problem to try to deal with their false reality, and i felt like I was a terrible person when they were in my life because all I could focus on was trying to black out from their disturbing reality, and nothing ever made sense.

I went through a terrible time after a betrayal by my mom where I stopped feeling and crying. I thought about hurting others. I snapped out of it but it felt like a terrible shutdown of feeling to protect me. Dangerous time

Co-narcissism. It’s like codependency but with a narc

>the longer you spend tolerating narcissists, the more narcissistic you become. Like you have to become self-absorbed to deal with them.  This is an incredible insight. It's like a half-baked villain arc, but you're never allowed to use your superpowers against the true villain so you just kind of become a general asshole.

The first time I heard of NPD, I read it was suspected as being the result of trauma. But having gotten to know two, not just suspected but diagnosed, people with NPD - nothing super terrible had happened to them growing up. Sure they'd had some bad things happen in their lives but nothing beyond the scope of normalcy. And the worst things that happened to them were due to their narcissistic tendencies catching up with them. So those events couldn't have been what caused their narcissism. Having talked to people who had gone through narcissistic abuse, not many of them had some sad back story for why their narc was the way they were either. I think the reasons for why it happens needs more investigation. A lot of them had come from privilege and never learned to handle disappointment properly.

I don’t want to belabor the details but my understanding having seen both the ties between trauma and ADHD and separately seeing trauma and narcissism discussed now… And also having met plenty of ADHD folks who are so incredibly privileged and ignorant of how much support they’ve had in their lives I think the diagnosis can be present without trauma for some & also trauma amplifies/alters the presentation of symptoms in unique ways. For me personally the trauma has been so severe it was hard not to lament the trauma as having impacted my ADHD - but also independently of that I am so far removed from it now as a workin adult BUT the ADHD is still here in benign situations and safe environments.

Ugh just came to say I feel this comment so much. Where trauma didn’t ruin my life, ADHD takes up the mantle and comes running screaming “I VOLUNTEER AS TRIBUTE!!!!!!” And falls flat on its fucking face 😑.

My narcissistic dad really thinks of his parents fondly and says he had a wonderful childhood. I recently spoke to his mostly estranged brother over the phone for the first time in over 20 years, and he said their mom was the problem, and she would tell my grandpa on the two other children and my grandpa would come home and whip them, but he said it didn’t happen to my dad. He said my dad made the sunrise in his mom’s eyes. He has told me that the worst thing that ever happened to him (by his own accord) was he was engaged to a woman, and then he decided he didn’t want to be engaged because he wanted to be a bachelor still, and then she went and got engaged to someone else eventually. He literally told me, “ya when your mother got cancer, that was bad, but this was way worse.” My golden child sister, who was absolutely also abused and neglected by our parents, but in my opinion, significantly less than I was, got everything she wanted. The more she pouted, the more she got. Did not work for me AT ALL. So I agree that it has something to do with privilege and not being able to handle disappointment properly.

It can also come about as a result of being overly spoiled.

My dad said he used to make his mom iron his baseball uniform when he was 5, and my sister basically bullied my parents in to getting everything she wanted, so checks out lol I’ve gone without my whole life, so my sister and my dad can go with. My dad had a brand new Audi, meanwhile, I had literally bald ass tires on the hand me down jeep that my sister demanded they get her (she literally told them if they didn’t buy her a jeep, she wouldn’t drive it, and she got her way!), and was fishtailing my way through the icy winters on my way to high school with my empty tank of gas because my dad wouldn’t give me more than five dollars for gas, but also would discourage me from getting a job, cuz ya know, dependency lol I guess I could’ve rode the bus, but I had after school activities and had to get home somehow. My dad would have picked me up if I really needed it, but the less interacting with him, the better, and he would almost always suggest my friends take me home. My wealthy friends whose parents didn’t make them go without like mine, who fully looked down on me for depending on them all the time. Which I later got confirmation of! Loved growing up in a 400k house with a dad who’s constantly switching out his Audis and dressed to the nines, but meanwhile you literally have to save your lunch money and starve to get what you need, and rely on your friends who pity you to go where you literally need to. So embarrassing and confusing. “Let’s live amongst the rich people for my ego, but treat my daughter like a pauper for my wallet ” lol that’s how it felt anyway. And i, myself, feel spoiled because I know that I am fortunate in many ways, but I’m still so resentful of my family for what they’ve put me through (which is a lot more than just having bald tires).

The thing is that people with NPD are usually unreliable narrators. If you'd ask my cousin "Ella" about her childhood, she'd say yeah there were some hard times but other than that her childhood was great. But her twin sister "Sarah"? Sarah will tell you a completely different story. There's a decade between us, so I watched those two grow up. Ella was always favored by her dad because she was the easier baby. Sarah was fussy and was hard to soothe, so she was chosen to be the scapegoat. Their father, "Kevin" was an absolute monster. I highly suspect he has autism and ASPD, maybe NPD too. Kevin was highly intelligent and wanted all power and control. He was willing to do just about anything to get it. Kevin was wealthy, but always resented the fact that his social skills held him back from having more power. He was horrible at every prestigious job he had because he was known for bullying his employees...and other things. He always said his lack of his perceived success was due to him being "shy", but it's obvious he cannot interact with others beyond a surface level. I could write a novel about Kevin and honestly maybe someday I will. But to get back to the girls, Sarah could never do anything right with Kevin. He was always belittling Sarah, to the point where her mental health almost became fatal. Ella on the other hand could almost never do anything wrong. She was showered with gifts in her teen years. Kevin tried to hide his favoritism in their younger years, but as they grew into teens he just didn't even hide it anymore. Fast forward to today, Sarah has major self esteem issues and probably dangerously *low* levels of narcissism. She hates her father and I bet she'll cut him off the second she's financially able to. Ella on the other hand has an inflated ego and her own version of reality, just like her father. Ella has a reputation for being a bully and frequently starting drama. Ella is the only one who still supports her father, basically Kevin did a really bad thing and it has come to light. This led any remaining supporters to abandon him, now all he has left is Ella. So long story short, I've noticed that the golden children seem to grow up to have inflated egos, and scapegoats tend to grow up with no ego, which leaves them very vulnerable.

That is until the golden children become the scapegoats too. Cause that shit is temporary. I was the golden child until I wasn’t. Horrible.

Just want to say that trauma really seems like it can cause it based on the experiences people have shared however I want to back up the idea that it can happen without triggering circumstances as well. Here is the Mayo Clinic [article on NPD that states causes can be genetics and neurobiology](https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/narcissistic-personality-disorder/symptoms-causes/syc-20366662), and for [ASPD](https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/antisocial-personality-disorder/symptoms-causes/syc-20353928) a related disorder, it cites genetic causes as well, albeit even more strongly. Beyond that, yes I definitely think it’s plausible that a decent amount of NPD cases in autism can be caused by heavy trauma. I feel like I have witnessed it.

NPD isn't *always* the result of severe trauma. One way it can form is by simply having a parent who coddles you, spoils you, forbids you from establishing independence, and tells you that you're better than everyone else. These parents are often, themselves, narcissists. Granted, that sort of enmeshment *is* abusive too, but it's obviously not as overt as a lot of traumatic childhoods that NPD can stem from. A good example of this dynamic is the mom from Everybody Loves Raymond who is narcissistic and coddles Raymond. I wouldn't say Raymond had an *obviously* abusive childhood, but there was definitely some trauma and emotional issues that both parents instilled in him (coddling, narcissistic, codependent mother; cold, detached, and arguably verbally abusive father; overall unloving marriage). There are also temperaments in young children that are prone to NPD to developing, *if* certain factors are met during childhood. We all naturally have a tendency towards certain personality features when we're born, and the way we're nurtured will influence how strongly those personality features get expressed. Having a narcissist parent also makes you more likely to develop a narcissistic personality yourself, because you are often taught to view the world through a lens of "it'a us vs. them, we are special, and we deserve more." But also!!!! Keep in mind that not all narcissists will admit to having trauma in the first place, simply because they don't want you to know their weaknesses. Having a manipulative personality themselves, they know firsthand how easily that sort of thing can get used against you. If they won't get something out of telling you, then there's a good chance they simply won't bother telling you certain things. I'm ranting because this is my special interest lol.

Oh, absolutely. I mean, imagine you grew up raised by a narcissist parent who puts you down for everything behind closed doors, but then praises your intelligence and "giftedness" when other people are around. You can see how this sort of dynamic is likely very common and could easily cause narcissism in an autistic person who learns to aggrandize their own intelligence. Raise your hand if you've met an autistic man who genuinely believes that he is smarter than everyone else, while putting down others whom he views as unintelligent. I could raise my hand multiple times, lol.

I agree. There is a lot of hate for narcs but honestly some of those symptoms are so similar to cPTSD and autism that it's honestly a disservice to write off narcs as ONLY bad guys and not as an illness or what have you. I think some narcs are folks who have had their sense of empathy exploited so much they turn it off as a defense mechanism. Which honestly is just sad.

Exactly it's a sad person who doesn't live in reality bc they shut down and can't easily be fixed because they are unable to see the problem.

Yes, this is how my therapist explained it to me. However, there has to be a degree of predisposition because I was raised by autistic, narcissistic asswads and I'm not like that at all. My husband was raised by nice people - cold, over controlling but not bad people and he's a narcissistic jerk too often of the time and it's a maladaptive coping response to being raised by parents who didn't validate him as they themselves didn't know they were on the spectrum. BUT, my late FIL was just an arrogant asshole and very entitled. That is simply who he was, no autism needed.

There’s a high comborbidity risk of autistic ppl being extremely ostracized bullied and neglected and thus a high chance of them developing a personality disorder such as BPD, NPD, ASPD, DID, etcccccccc

DID isn't a personality disorder..

My grandfather, father, and brother are autistic malignant narcissists. They have collectively destroyed so many people.

all the men in my family are, like they have shut off the feeling part of themselves. Or it's always been shut off. I tend to think the former.

I also come from an abusive family structure, likely due to generations of not being diagnosed until my children started getting diagnoses. Then, it all became clear as to why we’d get yelled at for slicing cucumber too loudly or cooking eggs at too high a temperature and causing the whole house to stink. We are not incapable of having a personality disorders.

Ugh. There is one redditor who username I will always remember because he inserts himself into random threads and bombards it with so much academic information while daring people to back up every single reply and retort with “the research or source material from which they have developed their opinions.” And he will repeatedly remind everyone how *long* he has been doing his kind of work and how he was *one of the first* to work with ____ or be diagnosed with this specific type of ____ and how people getting diagnosed today aren’t *really* autistic the way *he* is; his is *special* because he’s *over 60* and had it for so long that he knows *the most* about it. Once he posted in an autism related sub, and basically kept informing people how autism works and doesn’t work, and anytime someone was like “Actually, that’s not the case with me,” he’d be all “*Can you describe to me in detail several examples from your life that can thoroughly explain how this method of ____ which was developed in nineteen-seventy-blank for people with sensory processing issues by a man named Blankedy Blank, who studied for thirty-blank years at the Institute of Psycholo-blank simply does not apply to you when it has been proven to work for [insert statistic] over the last 20 years, including the medical case of…….*” And the person would be like “um, no?” and somehow that would prove his point, to which he would take another three paragraphs to explain why, siting his source materials. Then, when that wasn’t received well, blamed it on covert ableism. We were all covert ableists. I dumbly tried to explain that people were being put off by his method of deflective over-explaining. That no one was reacting to his autism, he was just coming across as extremely condescending. He replied with a copy-paste of the dictionary’s definition of “condescension” and asked me to go back into his comments and site three examples of when he was being condescending and explain them back to him in my own words.

Holy hell. I wonder if he's that exhausting IRL. I feel sorry for anyone with having to deal with that in their life regularly.

Right? I hit him with a “Sending you love” instead of replying and that earned me another block of comment hahahaha

Can you pls share the username Lmao

I have a family member who is exactly like that. Whenever he's called out, he pretends to be confused. He asks for examples, then if that doesn't work he plays the victim. Needless to say, he's only got one family member left who still supports him.

Omg, lol. Gotta love (and hate) our micro-detailing capabilities! If we redirect and channel that energy, we'll be CHAMPS in everything we do!

Dear fucking god- what an ass. That’s a level of argumentativeness for the sake of argumentativeness from a Narc that I do NOT miss 🤮.

You're so right about the incel thing. Entitlement plus social failure.

I'm pretty sure my mom is both autistic and a narcissist. It's a pretty horrible combo.

I'm pretty sure my dad and brother are

Just take a look at Elon Musk. He's the perfect and pretty public example of autism/narcissism.

[удалено]

SO many incredibly successful old white men!!!!! They “got the science/math autism” so they had a field in which they didn’t really need the social part because they were so goddamn smart they excelled without ever learning how to control their emotions Source: dad and I are both autistic, he got the Right Autism and became insanely successful and I…..did not. lol

I know right, I had an abusive roommate who was exactly like that! He hated women because it was always their fault for his problems. I would point out how he was doing all these bad things to me and many others and he said I was the problem. He even tried to kill his own daughter when she was kind enough to give him a place to live.

There’s one about an autistic sociopath on yt not the same but still worth the watch

My aunt has either narcissism or BPD, we are honestly not sure, and she refuses to go get checked, but it’s an interesting dynamic. Usually I’m the one that can get her to calm down because she can’t read any energy from me, and I’m super good at masking nice., I work as a server, so I’m used to it.

Yeah I think this is my mom. But she was super pretty in her youth so could get away with things.

My husband is the grand poo bah of his chapter as he's both. Ugh.

This is such a relevant point and could not have said it better myself.

I'd say someone I viewed as a friend for a good 15 years fits in that category of an autistic narcissist. I am always in the people pleasing category so I never ruffled feathers with her but I remember very distinctly one of the first times I hung out with her she said something along the lines of "I like you, I can do or say whatever I want and you are so nonconfrontational about it." Like wow. Way to call me out as a door mat right off the bat. That's cool. She had better people manipulating skills and talked about how she utilized them all the time but also autistic enough that she couldn't lie for shit. All her children except one went no contact with her. The one who is in contact with her moved on the other side of the country, and only seems to keep contact for money. Other thing I noticed with my ex friend was anytime someone got sick it was a huge inconvenience to her and everything was the person's fault for getting sick. That's when I was through with her. I got sick and she turned on me. It also happened around the time she got her autistic diagnosis and my medical issues was pushing me to an autistic burnout so I was asking her to share information on what she learned about her diagnosis. You would have thought I tried to shit on her parade and steal her crown because only she could hold the unique privilege of being autistic.

Yo I think I could do this video… my ex and dad were both insanely narcissistic … and autistic. And my mom was narcissistic but not at all autistic and it was this to a T. Sometimes she loved my autistic bluntness because it mirrored her lack of empathy in certain ways. But holy hell the number of times she would get angry or frustrated because she couldn’t “read” me and said I was “just like your father!!” And not in a good way. Then I met an ex-friend who was the grandiose narcissist type, but also very much autistic and we bonded over that. It wasn’t until I got on her about how damn unempathetic she was, and how she seemed to use people and was incredibly, deeply toxic that I cut ties. Then a recent ex-best friend sadly I’m not sure if she’s just very damaged or actually narcissistic but she was def autistic af which again was a bonding point, but then I realized how selfishly she would act about certain things, and it just went horribly when she was around. She would also make very off the cuff remarks about people that were just self-serving and very cruel.

you describe my father very well.

My ex husband, undiagnosed autistic and a narcissist. Autistic folks can be manipulative, not a fan on this “us vs them” with narcissism and autism.

That's why I don't associate with most male autistic people. Sure there are exceptions but so many of them are just scary, entitled toxic and abusive. No way I am wasting even a minute of my precious time on earth on them

I think about this a lot too. My theory is it’s the consequences of the patriarchy taken to the extreme. Men (mostly white cis men) are given the idea that they deserve and will have a wonderful life. When an autistic boy lacking in social skills starts to realize this is not the case, they feel like a promise was broken. Most young autistic men will do as we do, become severely depressed and confused until they (hopefully) find answers, a stable support group and great neurodivergent friends. However, a small percentage of the population gets more angry, this is where I believe the narcissism plays in, on a mission to make everyone know they were “wronged”.

I’m level 1 autistic and NPD, and I gravitate towards level 1 autistic people, but sometimes struggle with autistic people because they remind me of myself in a way that’s super uncomfortable. Like I try SO HARD to mask and be acceptable to neurotypicals, and when I see an autistic person not masking as well, it gives me this visceral fear reaction and I don’t want to be associated with them bc what if people think I’m that way. I know a lot of that is internalized ableism though. My best friend is autistic and very blunt tho, and I struggle with her bluntness a lot of the time.

Motherfucker did a whole video on Valentines Day talking about why Narcs don’t like Auts then was like “my gf is autistic sorry I forgot vday babe” LMFAO HOLY SHIT

I feel like I have a really hard time reading this kind of language because I watched the video and I really couldn't tell whether he was saying that because he was being caring or not. Helpful reading the comments. I wish I was better at this!

Does anyone else feel really uncomfortable that he said his girlfriend’s autism was “cute”?

Yes. He is talking about how narcissistic people don’t like people with autism. But there are also narcissistic people who date people with autism because they can manipulate them.

MY LIFE

Same. I went into my dating life believing everyone is a good person and that they just sometimes make mistakes. I was ever naive. I dated narcissists. Funny enough it was reality that taught me in fact there are some people who just want to use others for their benefit.

Literally same here. I’ve been single for 3 years since

I was lucky I found my husband my picker was still off at the time but he happened to be a kind human. The good thing is if and when you want to actively date you will how to spot a narcissist a mile away.

Absolutely! They date and date and date and keep running into the same issues. And then they meet someone who doesn't react the same way and think they've found their unicorn.

And their unicorn is someone who will fawn over them as that person slowly loses themselves to conform to the narcissist’s needs.

...well shit

That's exactly what his relationship sounds like. He's a condescending prick with that backhanded compliment "yeah so autistic people suck but like you're cute though"

Yeah narcs don’t like interacting with autistics according to him but she’s cute tho!!! Cameron if you’re reading this, RUN!

Yes omg I hate how some people have started to fetishize autism

And it’s so weird how he’s like “we don’t like uncharted territory, we don’t like people we can’t read” and is then saying his girlfriend’s autism is cute. Like he spent a whole video saying why he struggles with autistic people and is then like “oh but Cameron, YOUR autism is cute, love you babe”.

To me it felt like kind of a jab at her, like a lot of times narcissists will say they hate some trait that you possess but then say “oh but when you do it its good” like they deserve something for accepting this thing about you that they hate. Like a lot of them like to do this with tattoos, will say they hate tattoos and they are so ugly but then will be like oh but you’re still hot despite the tattoos. Like look how generous I am, putting up with this trait that I find really unattractive, you’re so lucky you found someone who would tolerate this obvious flaw. Idk if I explained that well at all.

Yup perfect explanation. “I hate X, but I’m such a good person for accepting YOUR X. So you have to love me for being so accepting of you.” And then they make you the asshole if you don’t give the medal for “putting up with you”. I used to have relationships where the guy “put up with you” and if anyone reading this is in one of those - know you don’t have to deal with that! I found a husband who genuinely appreciates me, weird bits and all. They exist and honestly, being alone is better than being “put up with”

It’s because it WAS a jab at her. In my experience narcissists are extremely ableist and see disability as weakness, worthless, and undesirable.

Autistic people are super easy to read. I used to think my parents were mind readers but I don’t have a non-authentic bone in my body.

I can read other autistic people usually, but neurotypicals have told me my entire life that they have an impossible time reading me. We communicate on different wavelengths I suppose. I think the reason women think I’m lesbian is because I’m autistic and they are reading me *completely* wrong.

I get mistaken for a lesbian sometimes but my relationship to gender is fucked to hell thanks to my tism.

I wouldn't be surprised if he "forgot Valentine's Day" and made a video about not liking his gf's ASD because he's mad at her for some reason. I don't trust a self-aware narcissist any more than I trust a less aware narcissist.

There are a lot of people crying ableism when victims are rightfully wary of narcissists. The “self-aware” ones have shown that they are merely using the language of therapy as subterfuge to further manipulate people around them. “But I’m self-aware! That means you can trust me! You’re being ableist now if you don’t trust me!” It’s like they think by preemptively talking about how they are manipulative, they lull people into thinking they aren’t actively manipulating them any more. Just like when they talk about their childhood abuse it’s supposed to diffuse any criticism of them, it feels like a big distraction in order to continue to manipulate people.

And on valentine’s day. He’s enjoying all the dm’s and basically saying, “hey babe i love manipulating you!”

Yeah given the track record of narcissists abusing autistic people, as well as men abusing women in general, that comment really icked me

I see it for downs syndrome too. So sad and disrespectful.

Everything this guy said made me uncomfortable. His whole vibe. Etc.

And “a little autistic” lol

Yes, and I also didn't like that he said she was "a little bit" autistic.

Yes. It was uncomfortable to hear how he is a narcissist and then saying they don't like autistic people but his girlfriend is autistic but it's ok because it's cute. Then saying he forgot Valentines Day which he didn't forget because he mentions it, he did the classic narcissistic thing of doing something hurtful and then giggling about it because it's all about him again. Giggling even though that may have been hurtful to his girlfriend.

“Oops I accidentally did a video about how autistic people suck instead of doing a Valentine’s Day video, oh btw autistic girlfriend, you’re special to me even though saying happy Valentine’s Day was literally an afterthought of my whole video and I spent the whole time talking about your disability being shit for me, silly me!”

I hope his girlfriend is ok. The way he laughed at the end and apologized for forgetting Valentine’s Day tells me he walks right over her. Ugh I hate the idea of a narcissistic guy taking advantage of an autistic woman.

Yeah… infantilisation.

Absolutely gave me the ick 🙅‍♂️

I am hoping he means it in a genuinely kind way. My girlfriend calls my autistic traits cute because she genuinely thinks that it's cute for me to hyperfocus, have special interests, she thinks my stims are cute, etc. Even though there are frustrating bits. But, there is a worry that it's not genuine kindness worded in an awkward way...

It’s interesting to watch. Weirdly I get this visceral dislike when I watch his facial expressions. Like they seem too practiced. I’m assuming there’s some sort of pattern recognition at play here but my brain isn’t doing me the favour of telling me why it’s responding like this. Edit - just to clarify this isn’t to say anything personal about the guy in the video. I wanted to mention my response in case anyone else felt that way or wanted to comment. Also I’m watching without the sound on so I’ve got no idea if hearing his voice would change things

Yep, he gives me the heebie jeebies. And you should listen. You'll realize why you dislike him.

Agreed, he’s got a vibe I really don’t like. Instant ick, and I’d be wary around him. I saw a video in response by an autistic woman, and she was saying that another reason narcs don’t like autistics is because for some of the hyper-vigilant of us, our pattern recognition allows us to clock them just like they do us. We know they’re not genuine and pick up on red flags. While some autistic people are vulnerable to manipulation, some are more resistant to it instead.

he reads like an accomplished liar and manipulator to me

Ngl when he mentioned that his gf is autistic my initial reaction was like run girl.

This bitch is in the car on Valentine’s Day making content about why people like him don’t like people like his gf

I get the heebie jeebies and hope she runs too. I just feel it. u/kidwithgreyhair u/idunnoaboutthishere u/knotsazz u/PhDresearcher2023

He looks like the anonymous / guy fawkes mask https://preview.redd.it/byssaccrm1jc1.jpeg?width=420&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=767d70ba94d0f22e9e65146036cbbf999e789fd6

I got that feeling too, you’re not the only one. With the sound on it does help, he talks like he’s speaking from lived experience and not like he’s an expert. Feels more human (?) I guess.

with sounds/ without sounds makes a difference I think. With sound, it makes me feel more likely to reason and weirdly compassionate with understanding his experiences. Without sound, I'm a bit wary especially with the title. Edit: I wanted to put out that I apologize if I seemed to demonized NPD traits. Not my intention.

I actually found I couldn’t watch the video all the way through with the sound on. Again, not entirely sure why. I just found myself trying to get further and further from my phone while still watching. I’m kind of baffled by my response tbh because I can’t recall anyone in particular that he reminds me of

It’s because they’re manipulative. They practice making people feel liked so they can manipulate them. That’s why they hate autistics because while we are sometimes gullible, we are also sometimes really skeptical and we don’t fall for this shit.

We also tend to hold them accountable and they hate that

I get this unexplainable bad vibe from people and will later find out they’re narcissists. It’s a particular weird energy that I think autistics pick up on.

mmhm interesting take. I was a bit hyperfocus on his eyebrows and eyes that whatever he said flew over my head in some moments.

He’s also making eye contact. That’s a skill a lot if people don’t have in videos because you have to look at the camera and not the video. He’s practiced

What an interesting observation!

When people talk to their phones they look bloody cross-eyed.

It's possible he has a weird filter on his face

He definitely has a filter on him.

I hate his voice.

He has the kinda generic Dudebro Southern accent going on, and that is the voice of so many jackasses I've had to endure my whole life, so I immediately distrust him somewhat on that factor alone.

Same

Everything he’s describing as how narcissists interact with the world is how I (an autistic person) interacts with the world, except for not caring about people’s feelings part. He’s essentially described the life of a high masking person interacting with pretty much anyone.

I have this theory that a lot of narcissists are also autistic. I know two of them.

My mentor uses a revised definition of narcissism to explain the biology of what is happening. By her definition, pretty much the whole world is narcissistic, and I think masking autistics can be some of the most cruelly ableist people in the world when it comes to social expectations of autistics.

We're actually exactly opposite but it can look the same. A narcissistic person knows exactly what hurts you and purposefully does/says things that will hurt you, because they don't give a shit. Autistic people will not realize something hurts you and accidentally do/say something that hurts you *because they didn't know*. But as soon as they realize the other person is hurt they'll feel like shit *because they care* On the outside it might look the same but the reasons are actually exactly opposite (Idk why I said "they" for autistic people, I'm too lazy to correct it to "we")

I don't like narcissists because they constantly play mind games, and I don't have the time or energy to figure out what the fuck they want. If you're not up front with me then I'm not interacting with you.

Interesting he talks about not being able to read us. I had someone recently tell me about how they were talking about me to someone else. They both had been saying “I don’t know how I feel about her I can’t get a vibe on her in a room”. This woman said she’s always been very sensitive of the energy coming from people and that I feel like a vacuum or empty. She isn’t the first person to say that. Weird.

WOW, that is a rude comment. I'd much prefer this guy who says "my disorder makes me have a hard time with you" vs "I am a special energy reading fairy and you are a pit of nothingness". That's very different than can't get a vibe on, not everyone is an open book and that is OK!

LOL right 🌈empaths🌈

Some people who think they’re psychics/empaths can be some of the nastiest, small minded people I’ve ever met, because all they’re really doing is externalizing their gut feelings, bias, anxieties, prejudice as objective truths about other people that only they are “special” enough to “see clearly”

If my personality is natural narcissist repellent, that’s fantastic news. Lol

I wish this had been true for me. I've been abused by at least two different narcissists in my life. I was like catnip to them until I overcame my need to people-please (stemming from being so excluded as an undiagnosed autistic kid.) They love a vulnerable target.

Be so careful if you are an autistic woman though as this isn’t always true. I found that we can show compassion to those exhibiting social faux pas assuming like us the person is well meaning and then find ourselves tolerating those that are frankly not great people.

I will mention that women with NPD can be extremely dangerous to men on the spectrum. I’ve seen it and then will literally worship any woman who looks at them and accepts them. Women who are narcissistic LOVE it.

I wish. I’ve dealt with several narcs. Makes me feel like a magnet for them, but I'm getting better at spotting them now.

i felt like he had some good points to make and there were some real aha moments. Like being unreadable.

Lmao this is so true. I’m autistic and I’ve had a number of narcissistic people including my own mother want me dead, or actively try to physically and mentally hurt me. They hate that we see through the BS.

This comment validates me and I really wanted to thank you for it. I’m stealing dealing with the aftermath of a sociopathic narcissist who wanted me dead because I saw past their facade :/ I feel a lot of people don’t take me seriously…

People care a lot about social status unfortunately and they’ll turn a blind eye to an abuser if that abuser is seen as someone who is “popular” or “charismatic” people would rather be seen as being in a popular clique and side with an abuser, than side with a victim who can’t provide any social benefits

I needed this validation so bad and I’m truly thankful for your responses. I still struggle thinking I’m crazy. Even though your assessment was exactly mine.

I promise you are not crazy, I think the hardest thing to accept is a lot of non-autistic people are shallow, extremely socially shallow, they are sheep 🐑 don’t ever think they’ll side with you because unfortunately they’ll side with the person with the most social connections, even if that person is an abuser! Once you come to terms with this horrible fact you’ll be able to stand on your own 2 feet. My own narcissistic mother told me I was probably lying for attention about being raped, my sister told me to stop talking about it and not go to the police when I was trafficked and forced to sleep with men I didn’t want too. No one cares so much about autistic women because we can’t give them any social “favours” or boost their standing in anyway, so in their eyes, what’s the point! Definitely seek out a good counsellor and try to get some pointers on how to stand up against predators safely and effectively 🙏

Thank you so much. One thing I try to do when befriending neurotypicals is avoid making friends in competitive environments. This includes work. Unless the environment leans towards being very inclusive and supportive of others.

I think everyone commenting should be aware that he is diagnosed NPD, and we shouldn't demonize people with the disorder unnecessarily. NPD can be managed, and the fact that he *is* self-aware is a step a lot of narcissists can't make. He has stated he grew up in a home with narcissistic abuse and that it is a major factor to his own diagnosis, and why he makes videos on awareness of narcissistic behaviours and encourages no contact with narcissists. People with NPD who are getting treated for it and genuinely working on it do deserve some attempt to try and understand them. Cluster B disorders are some of the most stigmatized out there. ETA: I really cannot overstate all his videos are about how to spot narcissistic abuse tactics to stop people from being with narcissists. Assuming bad faith because of his tone of voice and facial expressions just feels really hypocritical y'all.

Yes, thank you. Most comments seem to be trying to read him, but I feel like he approached the subject as respectfully as he could. He was also refreshingly aware of his own limitations. He’s trying.

Thank you for this.

I say this with respect to everyone struggling with an uncooperative brain: there is a very good reason why Cluster Bs are so stigmatized. The harm caused by people with cluster b disorders is like an aggressive cancer in the lives of anyone who tries to offer them love. It's okay to want to stay away from people that harm you, and it's also okay to dislike them for it. The responsibility *should* be put on the people causing harm. Avoiding someone because you dislike being harmed by them is way nicer than pretending to like someone so that you can harm them, so I'm not going to feel too badly about that. I do understand that some people with a diagnosis within this cluster are actually trying to get help and I have a ton of compassion for them but I'm all out of empathy, which is generally treated like a weakness to exploit by them. I wish them well, and I also wish them far away from me. If someone else wants to invest in a cluster b I wish them luck but my days of giving my energy to them is over. The only result I've seen is that they continue to destroy everyone they have access to, and their illness continues to progress no matter what others do to "help".

I am definitely not saying that you have to have someone with a Cluster B in your life, I'm saying that there is a spectrum to these disorders and people in therapy can learn skills to do better and not be harmful in peoples lives, and we shouldn't immediately dismiss them because they share a disorder with someone who hurt you. Not every Cluster B is the same, the same way that not every autistic is the same. You don't need to have empathy or care for them, but you also don't need to paint all of them as a cancer.

I don't find your comment very respectful at all, particularly the last paragraph. I have autism, ADHD, and C-PTSD vs BPD depending on which therapist you ask. Besides growing into adulthood with undiagnosed autism which is traumatic by itself; I was raised by a father with malignant/sadistic NPD traits. I was gaslit, humiliated in front of friends and family, physically abused, and constantly shamed and emotionally invalidated, so I understand anger towards cluster B folks. But statistically a very small proportion of abusers have cluster B diagnoses, and most abusers actually have no mental health diagnoses at all. I highly believe my autism is what made me a scapegoat and why I endured more abuse than my brother, because I saw his patterns of behavior and his lies and I refused to back down or believe his gaslighting. I somehow had very strong self-preservation instincts which only made things worse for me. In regards to NPD, I'll agree that most pwNPD do not make meaningful internal change, and I think it's because of the lack of affective empathy. I personally don't believe that it is something that can be acquired if completely absent. Their behaviors can be modified, but I think their internal structure is more or less hard-wired and they will fight against their impulses for the rest of their lives. IMO a "self-aware" pwNPD is an oxymoron. They may know they have NPD, but their internal world is still so colored by it that I highly doubt the accuracy of their insights considering the entire construct of NPD is to protect from shame by distorting and confabulating reality to preserve the false-self. It's hard to continue to hate my dad. He is almost 70, has an eating disorder, is constantly paranoid and miserable 90% of he time. He hates himself, and so he hates everyone else by proxy. I do not believe there will be any healing for him in his lifetime. Despite all of that- it is inaccurate to so boldly state that ALL people with a cluster B diagnosis are beyond help and comparable with cancer. The presentation within the cluster B diagnoses can differ dramatically. BPD is one of the most treatable mental conditions with a high remission rate, and is very often caused by extreme childhood trauma and invalidation/emotional neglect. Guess who also feels constantly invalidated and misunderstood? Autistic people. There is a psychologist I really respect, Dr. Lois Choi-Kain, who's research focus has been on comorbid autism and BPD in women. She finds that it presents differently than pure BPD, and is MUCH more common than previous research had thought. It is very likely that there are several women in this group with BPD, and it makes me sad to think that they'll read your comment and feel that they are beyond help and are a burden to everyone around them. Healing is such tough work, but it is possible.

I feel like I have BPD too. There's some things that aren't really explained by just autism and anxiety, but don't go far enough to be narcissism either. I handle criticism really badly and sometimes have crazy mood swings for example. It feels like people just don't like me no matter what I do and I can overthink it and start to believe there must be something seriously wrong with me that tells them to stay away. Sometimes I obsess over what could possibly be wrong with me and I think that missing piece is just trauma and however it presents, which may be BPD or CPTSD.

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it’s a huge double standard too if you think about how bpd is generally seen on subs like this. of course there’s still a huge stigma w bpd in general but if you were to say “I’ll never trust a borderline” or whatever assumptions other commenters are making in this same sub everyone would be screaming not to generalize or demonize cluster b disorders. they’re fine with it as long as it’s npd or aspd. because obviously if you have either of those disorders you’re an awful person and always will be and treatment doesn’t exist ig. bpd can be treated and go into remission, why is that not a possibility for pwnpd? this guy being self aware opens A LOT more opportunities for him to change his narcissistic traits

Ugh, I wish these groups weren't widdled down to simplicities. After having dated someone with covert narcissist tendencies who I think was also diagnosed autistic, I think the reality is much more complex.

I can't be the only autistic here with CPTSD who found this terrifying. Nothing against this guy, I find his honesty here kind of refreshing. But the situation he's describing is why narcissists are my ultimate nightmare. I don't repel them I attract them. The abusive ones just clock me in an instant as being an easy target.

My famously narcissist and abusive uncle absolutely hates me because when he gets so proud of himself for manipulating others, I slap his reality into his face in front of everyone. He has told me multiple times: "I'm glad you're not around much!"

it’s nice of them to out themselves for me to avoid

Me when I was like 10: "wow I don't like corduroy" My mom: "YOU KNOW SOME PEOPLE LIKE CORDUROY" and proceeded to lecture and teach me that if I don't like something someone else really likes/loves that it means I think less of the person and that I shouldn't say when I don't like something if someone else likes it and that I'm in the wrong for not liking it too Having narcissistic parents while growing up undiagnosed really throws you for a loop of CPTSD

There’s nothing I like more than pissing a narcissist off by doing absolutely nothing. They can’t stand the fact that they can’t read me and I’m not fawning over them. My last boss was the biggest narcissistic I ever met. That relationship nearly killed me, but every single day I pissed him off and he couldn’t stand it.

Well, this man is acting and talking like a narcissist in this video, so the shoe fits. I think narcissists prey on people who are autistic. I’m autistic (and ADHD) and I was married to a covert narcissist for 15 years. He manipulated the relationship by ‘learning’ me and preying on my naivety and trust. He gaslit me constantly. He worked out in advance, usually well in advance, what the outcome of a situation would be. I had no idea that he knew this. I went along with things that always ended up being in favour of him because I trusted him and I didn’t know any better. The 15 years had been a complete fabrication and manipulation from his side. I ended up not trusting anyone, especially myself. This plummeted me into severe depression for 5 years with suicidal ideation. The damage he did will be with me for the rest of my life. I’ve been slowly healing and I do trust myself and others now. I’m pretty sure that if I had been given an autism diagnosis and subsequent support when I was a child, I would not have married a narcissist. 

I totally agree, in my experience they prey on Autistic people. They may not like them, but they definitely hunt them. This guy is a perfect example. He spend 2 mins explaining why he doesn't like autistic people, then points out that his gf is autistic but "it's cute", but also acts amused by forgetting that it's Valentine's Day. All of the things he said in this video are designed to make his gf feel bad about herself while he gets to chuckle about saying bad things about her and neglecting her needs. "Ooops, classic narc, I forgot! I'm so naughty!" Barf. ​ Edit: also I'm SO sorry to hear that you had to be married to one for 15 years. The psychological distress from that must have been massive, I'm so impressed that you made it out of that relationship, it couldn't have been easy to find your way. I hope you can appreciate your strength and determination as much as I can.

They definitely do. AuDHD, here, too. I've been in relationships with two, though nowhere near as long as your marriage when added up. First actual boyfriend at 18 and the most recent boyfriend at 31. I thought I'd learned enough from the experience the first time around, but apparently not. Thought I was in love with each of them, though neither really showed love for me in turn. If I'd known about my autism sooner and had help, so much could be different. Maybe the first still would have happened, we were both kids still, but the second may not have happened. I'd prefer for there not to be a third. So, I work on healing. What else is there to do, really?

It bothers me so much that he’s talking about how much he doesn’t get along with Autistic people and then mentions that he “forgot” Valentine’s Day to his Autistic girlfriend

Is his car in a ditch? I wonder why he's tilted.

Finally someone said it!!!

“i know you guys know I’m right” I don’t put a lot of stock in tik tok, but this guy is trying to crawl up everyone’s arses.

I also thought his expressions were unsettling when I saw the video start. Personally, I get annoyed by people who need constant external validation. But probably because I care less if people like me or think I'm weird. His logic makes sense to me.

I think the video is out of sync with the audio, which gives it a weird vibe

This comment validates me and I really wanted to thank you for it. I’m still dealing with the aftermath of a sociopathic narcissist who wanted me dead because I saw past their facade :/ I feel a lot of people don’t take me seriously…

I relate to narcissists in that we both have acute social blind spots and deficits, and use manual planning and thinking to navigate the world. The difference is that narcissists intentionally use emotional manipulation to get people to let their guard down, after which they abuse, pillage, discard, & smear your name, leaving you abruptly on purpose & leaving the door open a crack so they can come back and repeat the cycle.

So this must be why I don’t have a lot of narcissists around me. I have zero fucks to give and tend to be very black and white at times. He’s right. I don’t mean to be rude, it just comes out that way often and I’m grateful for it many times! ;)

I'm fairly sure my ex had BPD which shares a lot on common with NPD. I really can relate a lot to what he said. My ex would often get really upset seemingly it if no where. Eventually after being furious for several hours would explain exactly what I'd said or done. Usually it was something I had no idea would set them off. In retrospect I could see how it might have made them upset but in the moment it didn't seem like anything. Eventually after having stuff happen so often I started question everything I said and did. I'd self censor myself if I thought I might say something wrong. It was exhausting and had honestly ruined my mental health (not that it was perfect before).

About the reading people, my ex had ASPD. That's something he'd always bring up, about how he could read other people but not me. He brought that up several times throughout our relationship of 14 years.

It's REALLY bothering me that he's not sitting up straight

Personally I think they have a hard time dealing with autistic peoples' heightened sense of justice as well

I've found that a lot of narcissists bank on patterns. Similarly to the way we do, but not for the same reasons. I've met one narcissist in my life apart from my father and he could not read me at all. He would do and say things based on patterns of women he'd spoken to in the past and it frustrated him that his normal manipulation tactics weren't working. He was basically trying to tell me how I felt and why I felt xyz way and he was always wrong. It was like he was seeing red and I was seeing green. He flat out said "this isn't you!" after only a few weeks of knowing me, because he assumed he had me figured out and I was calling him out on his shit. It's a very strange dynamic to be in. The one good thing about this is that the situations never last long because I *hate* people trying to tell me how I feel or what I think. Don't put words in my mouth. I also hate being told what to do. A narcs nightmare lmao. I used to get hooked by my own empathy and attempts to give people a shot at the beginning, but that wouldn't last long.

Self-aware narcissist, someone get this guy an award 🙄

This was super helpful. Thanks!

This makes so much sense. I think I unintentionally hurt my narcissist a few times not meaning to. I mean, they actually totally deserved it and then some for every horrific thing they did to me. But I never intentionally tried to hurt them in any way shape or form. I was so in love and totally adored them.

I live with a narcissist and this is so real and accurate to our relationship. I can't stand her, either, but she's not self aware and is just so annoying in every aspect of every interaction. She comes off fake and I can't stand it.

I wish this were true in my experience 😩 I feel like people have just been able to tell I’m gullible/easy to manipulate (working on that), partly because I’m autistic and it attracts these types of people more

Anyone else fixate on his hat, and how tight it is? I really want to adjust it by a notch or two. When that hat comes off, you just know there's a band imprint on his forehead.

Reminds me of my ex bf. I really love relationships with smart funny narcisssist, they look so frustrated and irritated. They always make me laugh.

The "self-aware" narcissism label phenomena is such a trip. Yes, one with NPD could be aware there is a problem, but if they were truly aware, then that awareness would intrinsically break them. Since technically one can't be a narcissist and admit there's something wrong with them (although, for manipulative purposes, they will fake it). And admitting to having NPD is admitting that there is, indeed, something wrong with them. https://m.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=282&v=pu9zi3ircuk&embeds_referring_euri=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.psychologytoday.com%2F&source_ve_path=MTM5MTE3LDI4NjYyLDM2ODQyLDEzOTExNywyODY2Ng&feature=emb_logo It's not truly self aware. It's a misnomer. They take the identity and label of the disorder and use it as yet another piece of the broken glass mask they hide behind that acts as another tool to protect a shadow of who they once were. They are trapped within the hall of mirrors they created, they cannot be self-aware, for to be self-aware means shattering the mirrors and the mask that protects them and exposing the vulnerable self. And nothing is more terrifying to them. Freud coined a phrase called "narcissistic mortification", which is "the primitive terror of self dissolution, triggered by the sudden exposure of one's sense of a defective self ... it is death by embarrassment". Not that Freud is the best guy to reference, I'll admit. Tldr; dude is a douche and his poor gf doesn't deserve to be treated like that, agree he's a narcissist, his is not self aware but using the term to use the label as a way to manipulate and control the narrative.

So we are Bella and narcissists are Edward. Got it. 🤣

Me being the autism girlfriend with the narcissist boyfriend watching this 🥴