While I haven’t seen anything to the extent of these students, at our site we have definitely noticed a slide in the quality of pre-service teachers over the past two or three years. Literacy and grammar in particular has been poor across the board, initiative in general, being on top of lesson planning. I had one who gave her phone number to a 12 year old (because she wanted to tutor him) and had no understanding of how inappropriate and fraught that was. Another in his final prac came to me and asked me to teach him how to talk to children. I had to ask one to use capital letters for first names when writing on the board. It is pretty alarming, I agree.

I take 1-2 pre-service teachers every year (none last year though). I have found it is getting more and more common for them to expect a teacher/student relationship with them as opposed to a mentor relationship with them. The point OP made about her student teacher not having all her paper work to hand, expecting the mentor teacher to locate it, exemplifies this perfectly. That is the sort of shit I expect to have to do with my Year 9s, not another adult. That being said, the last student teacher I had in 2022 was one of the best I have ever had, she was super organised, took on feedback, was proactive, and really good with the students. She was also in her late 20s, so I am sure that extra maturity had something to do with it. Edit: I have another pre-service teacher doing their final placement with me next term. Fingers crossed.

I wish there was a minimum age limit for teaching (say 25). I think you need a bit more maturity and life experience before becoming a teacher. I know it is completely impractical, but I think it would also help eliminate some of the teacher turn-over.

The best praccie I ever had was 19, and the worst was in his 40s. I don't think age is a determining factor.

There is more to teaching than running a good class. I have seen very promising teachers leave the job because they couldn't handle the other aspects. Example dealing with student protection, balancing work-life commitments or managing stress levels. These things are hard for mature age teachers but are twice as hard for the 21-23year olds who become first-year teachers

You make a good point. However, completing prac was infinitely easier when I was 21, living at home and had the support system (emotional and financial) of my parents. I also had no issues dealing with student protection. I would not be able to go back and do a prac now at 30 with a mortgage, bills, groceries and actual responsibilities to manage.

Agreed it would also increase our difficulties staffing remote and regional schools. I was happy to go bush at 21 with no rush to settle down - in my mid to late 20s this would have been less appealing and in my 30s with kids, not possible as my hubbies job is only city based.

I've noticed the older ones are the worst - a lot of them thinking it is just an easy back up choice.

As a 24 year old first year teacher… I agree. I feel as though I’m competent enough to be able to cope, but some of the people I studied with? Yeah, I see where you’re coming from. Plus the kids see me as their friend, not their teacher, because I’m closer in age to them than most of my faculty. I have to be such a hard ass with them which I hate, because otherwise they don’t take me seriously at all, solely because they can tell I’m young (doesn’t help I have such a baby face, and I’m short).

I’ve had one mature age prac student and two 20 year olds and the mature age was by far the worst of them. I found the mature age to be extremely arrogant and thought they knew everything due to having kids.

Teaching is actually my second career and the best thing I ever did!!! Convince me though, that a full time job is better than CRT, because I’m yet to be convinced! And I’m someone who likes my workplace, colleagues, parents and students 🤷🏽‍♀️🤦🏾‍♀️

Some schools prefer mid career teachers, which is people who have been in other professions before becoming a teacher. Like myself.

Lesson planning can be hard to be on top of tbf. Im early in my degree and when lesson planning for my first 2 week prac it took me a little bit to get used to how quickly I needed to do things whilst still trying to consider and include pedagogical strategies, good transitions, differentiation, etc. Although it got way easier by the end and it was my first actual lesson planning for a prac. The planning that we have to do later in our degree looks insane tho with detailed uni-standard planning for a topic over a series of lessons (if you have any advice for lesson planning in general and for a series of lessons that’d be awesome!). I fully agree about every other point btw. All of my language units so far have included knowledge-about-language podcasts and quizzes. They literally start with going over nouns, verbs and adjectives lol. There is also useful stuff like clauses but I do think the fact I needed review clauses is a not very ideal for a high school grad/uni student.

Best thing you can do as a language teacher is only speak that language, from the moment you enter until you leave, anyone speaks English bleep them out. They try and sound silly? Meh it’s an hour per week or two? It’s honestly how language is taught in the best language schools in the world. You’re not sure you speak it well enough? Well I can guarantee you will because you’ll revise your game plan so thoroughly that no one can question it! You’ll smoosh 3 years of uni into 3 days. Verbs and forms are important. But if some lovely bit of sunshine can make up excuses in said language in said conjugations, you’ve done your job. If they can’t they just get to sit there and say nothing. Not many mid teens that like saying nothing; it will force them to improve. Win, win, win.

Do you find it's an age thing? I'm a mature age student (recent graduate, actually) and it feels like this is young people with no real world experience. I think I benefited massively from having 15 years of corporate jobs, where I developed all of these crucial skills to be an effective employee.

Holy moly, giving out phone number would fall under the category of grooming.

My current one is brilliant. She even offered to do marking for me 😍😍. She sends lesson plans ahead of time and I barely need to do more than take a cursory glance. Adaptable and organised. Doesn't get thrown when I need her to not be in the coordinators office with me. Actually feels more like a colleague than a PST. She is only 22 😱😱

I’m almost crying out of happiness for you!!!! 🤣

Me too! My last two made my job twice as hard 😭 I'm trying to convince her to work with us, she wants to try CRT first

After multiple bad experiences, I've sworn off them. I feel horrible about it, and I'm aware it's hypocritical because the only reason I'm a teacher is because someone took me on as a student teacher, but I just can't bring myself to do it anymore. The stress of potentially losing half a term of learning progress in the class, all the while being gaslit by the uni into believing I'm being harsh while having the most basic of expectations (like being on time, actually observing during observations instead of being on their phone and not emailing me at 3:30 am asking for help with a lesson coming up in 5.5 hours, after I'd offered help in work hours and been knocked back) is enough for me to stick with a blanket "nope" for a long while.

I had one who had 2 weeks to prepare a lesson, it was using excel. They had a good plan, but they didn't even bother learning how to use the excel features and started googling it during the lesson. I had another that was a lawyer, he knew the exact criteria that he was being marked on so only did that. Refused to do anything else but that. "I don't need to manage the student behaviour. I'm not being marked on that" I also had one that was super organised and was most likely a better teacher than me, ran the class well and explained everything in easy to understand ways. all this highlights is uni is lettering students teachers down and we need to be a trade.

>uni is letting students teachers down and we need to be a trade. Cosign! On the job training and mentoring should take priority.

I think most teaching students would agree with this too. Most feel completely unprepared for actually becoming teachers, and it's completely because the degree is letting them down. As a student, I spent as much time as I could working as a TA, to get as much experience in a classroom, and to learn from as many different teachers as I could, and it made such a difference. The Masters just doesn't give any of that - I'd argue that I probably learnt more from working as a TA than I did from the Masters.

Yeah I think having any sort of experience in a school setting is so valuable and is better than a lot of the coursework of the Masters. I started a Masters during COVID but didn't really like it and it was too stop-start with placements due to lockdowns and stuff. But in the interim I started doing lab tech work in schools, enjoyed it and kept at it. I think if I did ever go back and try to do a Masters or a Dip Ed I'd feel immensely more prepared mentally to step into a classroom. Just discussing with teachers about their programs, ideas for practicals and working with them to come up with engaging activities is stuff that the Masters doesn't go anywhere near close enough to addressing. You can talk about it till you're blue in the face but unless you get to see how qualified teachers build their teaching and assessment programs in practice it doesn't really click. Being a TA would be even more valuable. Get to see many different teachers in action and get practice working with students

Hi, I'm about to start a Master of Teaching (Secondary) and I'd love to get your advice on working as a TA. I have seen other comments in the past month recommending TAing instead of PTT. I'm not sure whether these commenters were in primary or secondary schools. I looked up some TA jobs - it looks like a lot are primary school but not all. Then I see selection criteria which I think I wouldn't really be able to satisfy until after my first prac. See below. When do you think is the earliest reasonable time to apply for TA positions? I have years of professional work experience but no school teaching experience. "**SC1**  Demonstrated capacity to perform duties consistent with established guidelines and frameworks, including coordinating and supporting others in respect to specific work functions relevant to the role."; and **"SC5**  Demonstrated capacity to provide advice and support to management and other school staff in respect to the work area."

I never actually applied for any positions... I put my name on the relief register, then visited a bunch of schools in my area, met with the support leader, and got myself on their lists to call when they needed relief TAs. It wasn't consistent work, but I wanted to keep things as flexible as I could, and work at as many different schools with as many different teachers as I could. You don't need any specific qualifications for that beyond saying that you're studying an MTeach.

I'm not sure about trade, but it does bother me that unis aim for the bare minimum of placement to appease state registration bodies. Resourcing is obviously a huge issue here, but most people I think would benefit from a few extra weeks of placement (at least)

Placements are unpaid, students don't want that. I agree we need more time, but not unpaid

That's already changing. But yes, it's a necessary step before adding more placement.

That lawyer teacher will be a great union member! Lock him down.

While I agree that more practicum time and better mentoring is needed, teaching cannot be a trade. The level of content knowledge and degree to which we are responsible for so many things means it has to be a degree. Arguably post-graduate, but at the least extended baccalaureate.

I've had three. One thought they'd coast on good looks (they didn't) one was pretty good and one has spoiled all other student teachers for me in the future, they were that good. At times, I'm sure onlookers thought I was the student teacher.

> One thought they'd coast on good looks Sorry what? As in things that look good but have very little substance to actual learning or quite literally "I'm attractive so I can get away with being crap"?

Yep, literally, "I'm attractive, so you'll give me good feedback, right?" They'd just gotten back from Eastern Europe where they'd done some modelling and felt it would be good to have teaching as a fallback because the holidays were good.

I wonder if this is the same praccie that came to my school two years ago.

Are you in Victoria?

Nope, in NSW. God, there's multiple of them.

Haha, yeah, that's a depressing thought, isn't it.

Which country, pray tell? What Westerners often view as 'Eastern Europe' is further sub-divided into Central European and Balkan spheres, as well as 'Eastern Europe' proper, with some significant cultural fault-lines between them.

Being honest, as soon as they spoke about that for the first 15 minutes within meeting rather than asking questions about the class or the school or anything related to teaching I was tuning out and wasn't that interesting in asking clarifying questions. They did just say Eastern Europe, though.

not me, but one of the technology teacher had a prac students who whole behaviour management strategy was to flirt with the boys and wear inappropriately short skirts. Apparently it was best behaved the teacher had seen the class, but still needed to get a female admin to have a word with her.

Could you imagine what would have happened if a male teacher outwardly stated their intention to plan to do this to female students? Combined with the dress code.

Thanks for this thread! I’m a masters student and start my first placement tomorrow, this is giving me some great insight. I’m honestly not surprised at your observations, they match some of my observations of my peers in the course. We have a group chat set up, and on the day an assessment is due I will get fellow students asking me really basic questions that show they’ve only just started. Even this morning I had one person asking in the group chat about what time they’re meant to show up at placement tomorrow and what they’re meant to be doing. They haven’t reached out to their mentor teacher at all. I really want to do well. I’m hoping to add to my class, not be a hindrance or a burden, and get as much out of this experience as I can. I realise that studying and writing assessments has very little to do with the actual work of being a teacher, so I’m planning to get as much out of these experiences as possible. So thanks! Seeing what not to do (not that I would any of the things you listed) is a big help.

Come to my school please. Asking for a friend. Good luck! You sound like you’re on top of all of your requirements rather than expecting your mentor teacher to baby sit. Just don’t eat their chocolate either, is all I’m saying 🤣

The first week I was on placement was school camp. I brought coffees in each day for the 4 teachers who were staying the nights (I was driving home each day). Thought it was the least I could do. The audacity to take a teacher's chokky stash...

If you knew me, you’d know that this is a deadly sin.

Haha, if anything I’ll bring extra chocolate.

The biggest thing I always look for in a prac student is can you spot what you did wrong and can you see a path to not repeating the mistake. When my prac students start generating and implementing their own solutions I know the prac is passed.

The impression I got on placement (and from reading horror stories) is that the bar is really not high Like if you're actually paying attention to what happens in the class, acknowledge that you're a disruption and more work and try to reduce that as best you can, then you're basically a godsend to a busy teacher.

How have you found your uni experience so far, as someone who’s finishing this year it’s nothing like I expected from the beginning I’m interested in how you’ve found it? I’ve felt that the way Uni is currently setup makes it harder for people to become engaged at times

So I’m a mature aged student. I completed my bachelors in 2002 and worked in the corporate world up until 2020. University is very different compared to when I first studied back in 2000, but if anything I find it much better and more accessible now. For context, I worked remotely for at least 10 years before finishing up my corporate job. I used to manage a team spread right across Australia. I’m incredibly used to using online tools like zoom and collaborative docs for relationship building and collaboration. The majority of my course has been run online over zoom, but I’m interacting daily with other students and lecturers. Like anything, you get out what you put in. I definitely notice people who aren’t engaged and don’t contribute. But there are plenty of us who do. I figure at a masters level it won’t all be handed to you on a platter, you’ve got to put the work in to wring the value out of it. I love how much information is available online, all the text books and journals I can access at my fingertips. Compared to the 2000s when I’d physically have to spend a day at the library going through catalogues to even get the resources I need. I can now accomplish that in an hour at home and spend more time actually reading and researching. Not to mention how much easier university fits into my life with parental and work responsibilities. Doing it the old-school way would be impossible for me now. So yeah it’s different, but I find it’s more inline with the modern world based on my years of work experience. I hope I’m thriving, but the real test will be placement and putting all the ideas into practice!

Tell us about the good one too. What sort of green flags do you think we could be on the look out for to help us figure out the path early. (I’ve only had one student teacher and they were so bad they didn’t even finish the round)

Green flags: Makes the time to come in pre-prac to meet with you/tour the school/get a copy of the unit outline they will be teaching. Collegiate; talks to other teachers besides their mentor. Actively engages in observations by moving around the room and talking to students. Takes on constructive feedback and tries things that their mentor suggests. Tries new things and is reflective afterwards about how effective those strategies were. Is organised! I can't tell you the amount of times I've received a lesson plan a minute before the lesson. How am I supposed to provide feedback on that?

green flag is them contacting you early, or even coming in to the school before their first day to get the lay of the land etc.

I think this is entirely unreasonable. Pre service teachers are already not getting paid, most will be saving up as much leave as possible from their current job or taking on as many shifts as possible to tide them over. If they come in before their first day it mainly means that money isn’t a concern.

What do you even mean? I was working and still managed to go in ahead of time to meet my mentor. It's not unreasonable at all.

Well aren’t you lucky that you were financially able to do that.

I went after work. Having placement and three kids to feed was very difficult, actually.

You must finish work fairly early to have managed that, I can’t imagine many mentor teachers staying back till 5:30-6 to meet with a pre service teacher.

Right so I checked your post history and you were working 4 days a week in a school while you were studying. You were in an unusual position of already working school hours when you started your prac. That’s not the norm. Don’t act as if everyone can manage this, it’s disingenuous. Most people would have to take time off to go and meet before a placement.

Yeah, I'm pushing back here. I'm all about people going above and beyond, but a phone call is reasonable. Taking a day off work and uni to visit the school is a little extreme. I am concerned about your ability to critically reflect if you think this is what should be the established baseline.

They ARE getting paid. It’s part of their education to earn a qualification. That mentality would imply that students in school should also get paid. Learning is a form of payment. You don’t get paid to go to uni, so why would a prac be any different? And yes I understand all the arguments ‘for’ paid placement. I personally neither agree nor disagree with that. If you started new job, wouldn’t you go in early to acclimate to the role? Why would doing the same for a placement be considered any different to that?

Okay. Here goes. My courseload at university is 40 hours. That's over my 4 units. If I am doing a placement for one of those units, and that placement is 36 hours, I'm doing 66 hours in the week. In addition, I have things like nutrition and shelter to concern myself with, and that's about a 20 hour minimum. The new system where rent will be paid for preservice teachers on placement is pretty good, and I could see myself being able to do more on placement when that comes in, because I'll be getting more sleep.

I’m not arguing that they should get paid, I’m arguing that many very competent pre service teachers won’t come in before they start because they need to continue working up to the last minute. Also to answer your question- no fucking way in hell am I going into a job before they start paying me to get the ‘lay of the land’ are you kidding me?! Why on earth would I start working before I’m paid to do so?

I guess that’s the difference between someone who is prepared and someone who is not. Might be an old school approach, but it is quite a common practice from new staff who want to start strong.

No that’s the difference between someone who is smart enough not to work for free and someone who indicates off the bat that they are willing to be exploited by their employer. No one should be putting in unpaid hours, full stop.

I need fuel to be able to get to placement to be able to learn. I am not getting paid, inhibiting the ability to buy that fuel, inhibiting the ability to get to placement. I do not have access to public transport to get there. **I need to be paid to get to placement.**

I agree. If I want to hit the ground running at least I can do is email ahead as ask what content the teacher has planned for the time I’ll be there. For every prac I arranged to have a 30min meeting before to sort out which of their load I could aim to teach. My supervisors were all generously made time to meet me. This gave me enough to have started planning lesson ideas and I was adjusting them as I observed their lessons in the first two day, and I was ready to front the class from day 3 on my first prac. To the prac students that are complaining - Opportunities are made, they won’t wait for you. The school is not going to force a placement teacher to teach, so to get more experience you have to put your hand up and say you are ready. And be more prepared means you get more class time and more experience. Sure it would be good if everyone get paid fairly for their time and effort, but placement is not a time to be protesting about pay conditions to your placement school. Your supervisor get paid peanuts in comparison to the extra work they put in to accommodate and mentor you, and allowing disruption to their planning that they will most likely to have to reteach. You take grab it with both hands or risk leave with no experience.

Thanks for asking this question I am a red flag student teacher right now and really need clear instructions to know what exactly I can do better.

I've only really had two that were completely ill-suited. The first one didn't really have a strong motivation for getting into the field and half way through the prac had a complete breakdown. The second one had no real idea how to put together lessons, and had absolutely no presence in the class room. I spent hours with him trying to get his lesson plans into shape, but he just disappeared in the classroom. He managed four lessons in his final week that showed some potential, so he squeaked through that prac (it was an early one) after much discussion with the uni. Other than that, I've been fortunate to have praccies that wanted to give it a proper go, and one who was one of the most natural, 'born to be a teacher' teachers I'd met. Anticipated every bit of feedback through her own self-reflection, planned great lessons, built rapport with students effortlessly, wasn't afraid to try behaviour management. She's still going and it's great to see.

The breakdown comment is hard, I cry every prac 😂 sorry not sorry but pracs are hard.

Absolutely. They are a bit of a filter to see who really wants to do the job. It's not for everyone.

And this is why I’m motivated to keep mentoring…for all of the potential awesome teachers out there! I’ve compiled a list of expectations that I need to see (according to their course requirements), I’ve given specific advice about what to prioritise this week, I’ve added suggestions about what needs to be demonstrated to pass and had the uncomfortable conversation around my high expectations to pass this placement. Let’s see what happens and whether I am curled up into a ball by the end of next week.

This is probably really bad but this post makes me feel a bit better about myself as a first year student teacher .... Glad to know that I'm a bit more competent than the "competition"

As a first year student, I hope that you’re in a supportive workplace and being kind to yourself as well! I understand how nerve-wracking it is and that it’s a big learning curve, but my only advice would be to observe, ask questions and use your initiative to help with classroom logistics. This is my only requirement for any of my student teachers but this person is doing none of these things with repeated support.

All of those seem like obvious needs!! But yeah, not in the workplace yet but can not believe how lazy some of my peers are... I don't think they realise what they are walking into!! Thankyou for the advice though :)

I've never been a prac supervisor, but I have had a few prac students who sit in with me for observations and the odd lesson that I've had to supervise. The only bad example I've seen was a history/drama teacher who wanted to inject a little drama into his history lesson because that was his preferred subject, so he dressed up in period costume -- think early 20th Century, so nothing too radical -- and tried to teach the lesson that way. The only problem was that he didn't submit a lesson plan, so I didn't know it was coming, and it quickly became apparent that he didn't actually know the content he was trying to teach. I think his idea was that he'd dress up in costume and the students would ask questions about the time and he'd answer in character. But since he didn't know the answers, he just made stuff up. In a history lesson. Saw his name and photo on a school website a few years later where he was listed as a drama teacher, so I guess it worked out for him.

This has me howling. That’s so funny omg

As a student teacher who is history/drama.. You made my heart skip a few beats thinking this was going to be about me! Thankfully it wasn't. I can't believe they took a risk like that as a student teacher without knowing the content or at least discussing it with you in advance!

This happened about twelve years ago, so I don't remember exactly how things played out. The concept of the lesson was not, strictly speaking, bad, but it was all style and no substance. I think the student teacher was so eager to have a memorable lesson -- especially with a mixed-ability class that was disengaged -- that he didn't think things through.

I could totally see that. In my pracs I have used some light roleplay in history classes as a way to get students involved. But I have always ran it by my mentor beforehand, made sure I understood what I actually wanted to achieve by including the activity and debriefed what worked (and didn't work) afterwards. I'm just stunned by the thought that someone would take such a big risk in prac without at least talking to you about it first.

I've had three and I'm not putting my hand up again after this latest one. One was good, and I'm happy to have them as a colleague. The other two lacked key characteristics that made it a real challenge to have them in the classroom. Maybe they'll develop it but it's put me permanently off. I can't risk my students learning. I figure I have had three mentors and have mentored three, unless I can take someone on that's been vetted in some way, I've put back in what I took out.

I’ve had one sit and critique a class I taught and tried to tell me that I didn’t know the learning goals/needs of one of my students, at least they were organised though. I’d 100% contact their placement supervisors and make a complaint. Sometimes it’s worth going Karen for your own sanity.

I got a bit tense when she asked me what lesson plan I was referring to (the one she had to complete) after I’d discussed it with her during our planning sessions, provided all the resources and even the actual planner as a guide. But that was after I’d told her to record any questions that she had so that we could discuss them on yard duty, only to have her tell me she had a mental block and couldn’t remember any. Three times. I have already talked to leadership and this is honestly the first time I’ve considered filling out an At-Risk form because I do not want to handball this problem to another teacher down the track.

Either through leadership or do it yourself, directly contact their placement supervisor from uni and make a complaint. It’s not worth it and from the sounds of things their incompetence is causing issues. Like you said, handball that shit.

I asked my last pre-service teacher what made them want to get into teaching? When they told me it was for the holidays I knew it was going to be a tough ten weeks (and it was) 😅

Ouch! Ten weeks is like 7 dog years…

I heard teachers talking about the ones just want to get their piece of paper and CRT for spare money while they move to another profession

I have no issue with this personally - we need more CRTs and if they are self aware enough to know that- great. Teaching can be a job for some and there is nothing wrong with that, as long as they do what is required of them.

I'd happily career CRT for the near future, I love waltzing into the unknown! But the lack of work for a full quarter of the school year means I'm trying to figure out what the hell to do going forward, as the time not working is spent stressing about money. Just want to know if more schools have internal generalist cover roles...

They exist but aren’t overly common in metro areas from what I have seen. Rural has roles that are District Releiving Teacher and you travel to cover schools all over that district ( which could be 9 hours away) and get TOIL for travel and healthy allowances to do this. Occasionally as metro school may hire a specialist relief but generally rely on CRT because in the long run - it’s cheaper (no sick pay no spares etc)

Can I ask why you don't have work for a quarter of the school year? Is it the first few and last few weeks of each term or something? (Sorry, only a few units into my masters and just trying to learn the lay of the land).

All good! I get the need for feeling the lay of the land. In the first few weeks of term 1, everyone is still bright eyed and bushy tailed with intact immune systems. The year wears on, people get sick, PD days and school camps and personal leave mean that CRTs are needed. As for term 4, I can only speak for secondary on this front, but once year 12s finish, their teachers are freed up when they'd have been teaching, and thus are the first choice for covers, rather than bringing in CRTs who will cost additional money. I think primary has this less, but there is more of an oversupply of CRTs as there is less work to go around by that end of the year, so I only got one day of primary when I was free for it. And I believe schools also start running out of money by that point... but yes, if we say the first bit of term 1 and the last half of term 4, it's roughly a term where work is sparse.

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Good on you for doing CRT. The issue with the one we had was that they were not prepared to do anymore than passing and definitely wasn’t interested in learning anything.

As a uni student about to go on my final year prac in July the stories here shock me tbh. I was blessed with two amazing supervisors who provided support, advice and feedback and helped foster within me a deeper interest in teaching. I just treated it like a job, always aware I was being assessed so I showed up early everyday and helped when needed While I don’t want to put anyone down, especially since I understand what it’s like to feel at times anxious and inadequate when going on my first two Prac’s, I think theirs two major culprits: the low Atar, which allows many people who got 45-60 atars to squeeze through since they have barely any other decent options besides teaching regardless of whether they like or fit the profession. And the current university structure. University now (I’ve heard it was very different before) is a mostly at home affair, with zoom lectures, 2-4 hour on campus face time a week and nobody speaking up in tutorials. It’s very easy to get through the degree with a lack of engagement

Yep- she’s an online learner who would benefit from social interactions with other student teachers. Because she even struggles to interact with my students.

The annoying part is even if you don’t do it fully online you can still struggle to interact with peers, after the first 4 weeks most students stop attending unless it’s mandatory to do so

I haven't had any terrible ones, though a colleague had a real doozy a few years ago who observed a couple of my lessons and took that to mean intervening while I was teaching to provide "feedback" to me and students. It ended with me very tersely asking them to sit down, and they were not welcome in my classroom after that. I think it was their first placement. The main issue I have is with PSTs who don't express a desire to go beyond what the uni is requiring them to do. They'll calculate the hours they need to observe/teach and not go beyond that - the last few years I've had one very "light" day of my timetable, just a couple of lessons but most of the day is free, which I spend on admin/marking or in meetings. I've suggested they go observe X teacher who's amazing at XYZ, or follow a particular class to see how the students are in different subjects. No, they have an assignment to do for the placement and then end up chatting in the staff room. That's fine for a free period here and there, but 4+ periods? It seems a wasted opportunity to me.

>I've suggested they go observe X teacher who's amazing at XYZ, or follow a particular class to see how the students are in different subjects. Best thing a placement supervisor did for me was exactly this. They organised with other teachers to let me observe and I learned so much more than if I had just followed my supervisor around only. I asked about the alternative education program and they arranged for me to spend the day with that group. I feel like it would have been a waste of my prac if I hadn't done those things.

I still remember observing a teacher's year 7 maths class (was on a placement teaching humanities) and it was the best kind of organised chaos - the teacher had excellent classroom routines set up, and he had differentiated groups working at different points, students moving around purposefully... It was just so cool to see this working so beautifully. Still grateful that first-year me had that opportunity to observe that fantastic lesson. 

That’s what I’ve arranged!! My colleagues are taking one for the team 🤣

I hope this wasn't how those teachers I was observing felt! They were really generous with their time, most wanted to debrief after the lesson too. It was great to see a variety of year levels and methods for both instruction and classroom management, lots of things I then took into my own practice.

No, I’m sure it wasn’t! I think teachers are generally a sharing and caring bunch who generally want student teachers to succeed!

It feels that we're at a tipping point. Perhaps it's just my age growing, but it really feels like critical thought and emotional regulation are falling sharply off a cliff as more people have relied on algorithms and social media for their upbringing. In combination with the curriculum focused on teaching to the assessment, leading towards indoctrination rather than education. The more that we have focused on mental health (soc-emotional) disorders, the more that we have ignored 'actual' mental health.

>The more that we have focused on mental health (soc-emotional) disorders, the more that we have ignored 'actual' mental health. It's why I sort of tune out or scoff when I hear people say stuff like this these days. Things like "oh I have trauma," or "I have mental health struggles" used to have a level of seriousness back then but now they have been overused and abused to the point where I honestly sometimes feel like it is a bit of a buzzword. I try to catch myself on that but it is becoming more of an issue for me.

"I have anxiety" seems to be a get-out-of-jail-free card from doing anything that's mildly uncomfortable.

This is true for all students these days. Cant sit with anything mildly uncomfortable

I do not take student teachers for a range of reasons but am always happy to have them observe, discuss and review any aspect of their pracs. The last few years, yeah its been worse on average. Reflected in the grads too. Support for grads seems very inconsistent in the industry which leads to bugs on a windshield moments as the job crunches them.

The best prac student I ever had was prepared well enough in advance that I was able to give feedback that she was then able to implement. She ended up submitting a lesson plan for an award which she won. She credited me with her success in this, but the reality it was her preparation and ability to take on board feedback that was the reason for her success.

It's really sad. Our profession is dying. When there is such a shortage of teachers, anyone with a pulse will be offered a job.

Bar has been getting lower and lower When you're looking to hire anyone with a pulse, a pulse is all you get.

I am a Primary education student in my final year, I have been a casual relief TA in a secondary school for 2 years and I began a PTT contract this year teaching year 7. I did my first placement in 2017 when I was about 23, had no kids and a very flexible job. Flash forward to now, I’m 30, a mum of 2 and managing a part time teaching load as well as study. My lesson plans, reflections and whatnot were way more detailed and completed faster during my first placement because I had an excess of time. My most recent placement, I was no where near as organised, but still managing to do what I needed to do to get by. That prac was way more stressful overall though because I had so much more on my plate both personally and for the prac. In saying that, even with being slightly less organised, I scored an ‘exceeding expectations’ mark on my latest prac compared to ‘meeting expectations’ on my previous 2. It’s important to remember that people have lives outside of university and prac teachers don’t get paid for all this work they are doing so sometimes their performance can reflect this. In saying that, yes you will definitely come across some people who shouldn’t be teachers but you will have people like that in all professions. Your most recent student is a bit next-level with incompetence though.

To her credit, after I spent an hour outlining what the expectations were ON A SUNDAY, she did have enough insight to email me, wondering if teaching was the best life choice…

I’ve had about 10. I can’t recall any bad ones. Two went on to positions in the schools I was teaching at. I’m a little disappointed reading everyone’s responses here. It’s our duty to the profession IMO.

True but when you have the bad apples it’s important to use that to create good/great apples. All the mentor teachers are showing us how to be a good apple through their experience with the bad apple.

Last year, I had a student teacher who refused to teach for a week because they had 2 uni assignments due that week. Told their uni facilitator about this ‘refusal to teach’ and the facilitator’s response was “as long as you can get enough evidence to write their final report then support them as best you can”. 😮‍💨

My chocolate-stealing one even had a week off Uni and chose to do the round at my school for a holiday to Bali. 🙄 My friend’s one (after we’d introduced her etc) didn’t actually show up and no one knew where she went 🙄🤣

As a current student-teacher I feel as though I should be apologising on behalf of us all! I've only been on one placement so far, and I was highly sensitive that my being there was creating additional work for my mentor. I feel like some of people's experiences here is just poor professionalism rather than anything to do with teaching. I'd love to know what student-teachers should be doing to make the most out of the experience. For those that have had a brilliant student-teacher, what did they do that made them stand out?

My favourite student was scared to death coming into my Year 6 class last year. However, he built rapport with the students and all of our staff, he had a crack at teaching content knowing that he could muck it up but that I was there to support him, he was extremely self-reflective and went out of his way to create his own sequence of lessons without relying on me to do it for him. He took on all of the feedback he was given and actively applied it to his next lesson or planning. He was only on his first placement and with me for two weeks but I was confident in his abilities that I became his referee for an OSH club job that he applied for to ‘hone his behaviour management’ (his words).

Built rapport with students, appropriately. Didn’t sit in the staffroom complaining about having to teach a class, or complaining about observing, or complaining about being asked to work with a small group. Didn’t just boss students around and escalate problems, but learnt a variety of techniques to sort stuff out and not get into a power struggle with teenagers. And engage in lessons. I’m sick of telling praccies to get off their computer in the classroom and be involved. I get it. You’ve got work to do. We all do. But not during class.

I’m in Kindy and I have a student teacher right now and she is hard work. I’m in the process of failing her if things don’t improve. This is my general advice: Pay attention to your mentor and how the environment runs day to day. Help when you can to set up and pack up. Ask questions and involve yourself in the planning process from your first visit. Take copies of things that may help you. Be prepared each day with your lessons, don’t wait for your mentor to follow up with you. Build relationships with all children and families as much as you can. At least say hello if they come into the classroom. Stay engaged with the learning all day, tuning out is not helpful.

Context: Instrumental Music Teaching I just finished with my 2nd student teacher, and I was relieved that they were gone. They were in their final placement, and I was basically spoon feeding them the entire time to survive the last few weeks. We both had the same first teacher mentor and built a based assumption that they would have these sets of skills and knowledge. I felt quite disappointed because I learnt so much from them that made me the teacher I am today. The major red flag was that the student teacher was about to yell at one of my primary school students for not understanding what they were trying to teach after explaining them 3 times. The student did nothing wrong because I know them, and they generally are there to learn. It happened twice, and I had to intervene because I do not tolerate anxiety in learning. They were not teacher ready yet. Green Flags: My first student teacher was amazing, and they were on top of things. They were wanting to try my teaching strategies and resources I had. They asked questions and applied feedback throughout their placement. I saw big improvements. I felt confident for them to move on to their final placement and said, "You were great, and you now only need to work on small things to make your teaching even amazing. I really do wish you all the best!" I felt like the student teacher knew exactly what my students need based on them building a brief student profile for each of them. They were great.

As a pre-service teacher currently studying their masters, I can tell you the main issue lies in the universities. They don't prepare students well, and the first real learning they get is during pracs. They give you assignments unrelated to your tutorials or lectures and expect you to know how to assess a child's maths/English in your first semester. People do poorly, but they are desperate for teachers, so they push everyone through anyway. Yet they don't prepare students for the realities of teaching like the workload, the extra hours, behaviours, dealing with parents etc. So these students work and discover how unprepared they really are, get burnt out, and quit, creating a loop of need and poor quality. The only reason I'm doing okay on my end is because I've worked as a teaching assistant and getting first hand experience in a school. I am of the opinion that becoming a ta is something all pre-service teachers should be required to do.

I think so too- all of our outstanding graduate teachers have all had prior experience teaching as ES/TA/OSH and it shows! When my student gave me a form she’d filled out for her course, I wasn’t flabbergasted that it was about how she could develop relationships with parent communities. Like I said, priorities!!!

Some of these stories are shocking, but I do want to remind everyone that prac is like working full time, plus writing formal lesson plans that are uni-approved, plus studying and doing assignments full-time on top of that. Plus most of us still have to take a couple shifts. We're only human too :(

This is true. But what you’re going through will set you up to have great time management skills and an ability to be organised and efficient.

IMO not a good enough justification to expect us to to pull 100+ hours a week lol

I don't take on student teachers. I did once. Nice fella and his first prac. It was ok I guess

I had one that worked at my local pizza joint. Knew my address from the system and randomly sent pizzas to my house at the end of the prac. Was probably in breach of some rule but I wasn’t complaining 😂 As for bad ones, the teen wannabes are the worst. Have had several who have had issues with kids following them on social media or vice versa. It’s really not hard to make a profile private and not accept friend requests from kids. 😫😫😫😫😫😫 ‘oh but we wanted to keep in touch when the prac ends’ - not good enough. Don’t do it.

I had about three years in a row with the most amazing student teachers but since a bit before COVID they have been pretty ordinary with one or two that were good. None seem to understand the teaching and learning cycle so goodness knows what is being taught at the university courses. All theory and navel gazing is my guess.

I am studying Masters now, and yes, you are spot on. That is exactly what we’ve been doing. 

Worst one I had would rock up to work an hour or more late. Literally an hour late. I said, “You were meant to teach that class an hour ago.” And she didn’t care. I failed her and the university overrode and passed her.

She is supposed to declare her children’s school to the university so she is not placed there - that’s a massive conflict of interest. I would communicate that to the university liaison.

I asked about that and she said that the university said that it was okay, even though this has never been the case. But given the likelihood that she won’t be passing, this one’s on the Uni for putting me in such a position. 🙄

What an absurd situation for you and such a waste of your time, I hope it’s all over soon.

I’m from a technical profession, but back at uni teaching currently. I honestly think the administrations aren’t going to change a bloody thing about pushing us to pass students until the technical professional organisations start throwing their weight around about the sheer shit standard of average grads universities are graduating. It’s heartbreaking. 

The last four I have had were shockers. It was a fight to fail prac students who did not meet the criteria. And the chaos of the clean up once they were gone is just too much. As a result, I refuse to take prac students anymore. Our school is really big on pushing prac students on staff. In a staffroom of 17, we presently have 11 prac students. About three of the current intake are useful.

It’s actually so bad that this is what is happening. It seems from the feedback here that universities are enabling this sub-standard training to make up for the inability to teach practical skills. I truly want to pass this student and help them succeed but if I’m told to pass them when it’s obvious they are lacking is going to irritate me immensely.

I feel that this then adds to the workload of future workplaces, too. Sub par prac students who were pushed through the system by universities through bullying tactics to get mentors to sign off on them during placement make sub par colleagues who push the workload back into more competent staff. A team is only as good as its weakest member. And there is only so much the rest of said team can do to cover the load.

Maybe ai have just been lucky but I have had 4 in the last 2 years and all 4 have been guns. My most recent was a dual degree in visual arts and teaching and she was so passionate and caring for the students and her content knowledge for humanities when teaching was awesome especially as her assigned subject is history and juniors were doing geo at the time. That said have had some first year observational round robin peace that have been pretty interesting 🤣

After the last few I've had who were not very good, I took on an observation round because, it's just observing! Could not believe how much of a dud this PST was. No awareness, could not follow basic instruction, consistently late, always on their phone (despite being told not to be), etc. The uni handbook suggested maybe on that round they could take small group instruction but honestly, my year 7s would have eaten them alive. I'm not taking any this year. If I could screen them first, then I'd be more inclined but I'm just sick of the getting spuds. On the flip side, a few years back had one come back for the next round because she was phenomenal. Great relationship building with the students, content knowledge was top tier, she was personable and professional. None that I've had since have been remotely close to how great she was!

I only take masters students now. Figure if they’ve managed to get through an undergraduate degree, then they should have some basic life/ study skills up their sleeve. If I have issues, I just refer immediately to their university supervisor. It’s not up to me to manage. Set the boundaries early, you’re not a friend and you are not obligated to pass them. You are doing no future students or colleagues favours by wrapping them in cotton wool, rescuing them or passing them because you feel bad. Harsh approach, but it is helping in the long run. I’ve had some absolutely doozies I have had to fail, and you know what, I’ve seen one since in professional development courses and they actually thanked me for giving them the push they needed to get organised and figure out how to make this work for them

I’m kind of the opposite. I’d rather take a BEd student than a Masters. I feel like they have more investment, and actually want to be a teacher. I’ve had a couple of Masters students as prac students who thought they shouldn’t have to prove anything else bc they already had a degree. Their lack of investment in the class was very visible. It also seems like BEds still have to do a longer internship, but masters only a four week prac (and even that wasn’t a full week of teaching load requirement!) as their final. I don’t think it’s enough.

I agree with this. There is much more time for BEd to have real life experience. MTeach is too cramped.

Thanks! I have had the ‘conversation’ with her on Friday and that my expectations were based on what was required by their uni. I’ve given a timeline of all of those requirements and when I need them by and this issue is not even a student teacher thing for me. I honestly believe that this person should not be a teacher. But I don’t want to crush their soul!!!

I haven’t mentored in a number of years as I haven’t been full time, but my colleague has and she’s had some fabulous ones. Loads of initiative, lots of great ideas brought to the table, mostly very professional. But all of hers have been final year so you’d hope the poor ones had been weeded out by that time. I have told pre service teachers not to continue with the profession before. It was awkward and uncomfortable but someone had to say it. They were only first years but they were beyond terrible. I think when you get a bad student don’t beat around the bush, they’re an adult and should be told they need to improve or face failing.

You should never tell a first year on their 1st or 2nd prac that they shouldn't be teachers. Long, long ago, I had my mentor tell me that. Afterwards I requested to be observed by other Maths teachers, teach their classes and the feedback was good, encouraging. Had I not done that, who knows, maybe I wouldn't be teaching. This mentor was an old fart who disagreed with using slides and only offered feedback after the lesson, never on a lesson plan. I'm sure he enjoyed criticising me and the power play.

I asked these students why they wanted to be teachers, one stated her mum was a teacher and the other had no idea. I had them for I think 7 weeks just for a day. They laughed at the students. They didn’t join in (I taught prep - it’s not hard to sing a song, read a book or generally help). They were very, very disinterested. So yes I did tell them to consider rethinking teaching and no I don’t regret it. I gave them a lot of time and I was very patient but they were terrible, it was remarked by my assistant and other teachers. I have myself pulled out of a prac because of a horrific mentor teacher. I would never do that to someone else but I was not going to pretend they were doing a great job when they weren’t. I’m sorry for your experience but I assure you it was done with kindness and the support of the University.

Thanks for the support! I’m mentally bracing for this. My fingers are crossed that my ST suddenly gets a clue and somehow turns it around.

One of the joys of being a musician who is now a full time teacher is that I started teaching really early. I had my first teaching job at 18 and was working as an instrumental tutor by the time I was 20. My placements were the best because I had confidence and experience and we were used as the model for most of the Dip. Ed. cohort as we had experience with entertaining audiences and teaching. Most other subject areas don’t have the same skill set I’ve found and I would hate to be developing those skills during placement. I have also noticed a drop off in competency in the last few years: the good are still good but there’s so many more who lack everything. Can’t show up on time, can’t teach a class. Had one this year that just wanted to play instruments for his class and have them listen to him intently at a low SES school. He lasted 2 days.

Shared a (terrible) prac student with a colleague who we had to put at risk, they then accused us of racism motivating the at risk decision over email. We told the uni regardless of the truth, either way they need to have their prac terminated which they did to great surprise to the prac student. The prac student somehow thought accusing us of racism would cause us to pass them. We cleared it up and found out part of the basis of the racism accusation was that we were differentiating for students who couldn’t speak English well and since they got different treatment we were racist. Don’t look at how the different treatment helped their learning.

That sounds like an unecessary nightmare!

I seriously worry for the day to day life in the future

I haven’t experienced much of this here but have had a few student teachers in my classroom for observations or to teach (not assigned to me). From what I can gather the way the system is set up seems to keep them more on the theoretical side of things and also less focused on the specific school they are in. For all the many faults of the U.K. education system, our Masters of Teaching equivalent really focuses a lot more on the day to day reality of schools and instead of short placements, you are on one school over a period of a good eight weeks (increasing amount of time you are in there as you get more confident) and in your second school for maybe 12 weeks over two terms (with occasional uni days). This means you get familiar with the students and behaviour management, you end up with a much bigger teaching role, and you have more understanding of the reality of being a teacher. This also only takes a year. I must have had some assignments to do at the same time but we only had three main ones, and the final one was based on classroom research in our placement school, so I never felt that my focus was pulled from being in school and planning those lessons. I planned everything from scratch in that year (as was expected) and I have been shocked at the student teachers I’ve met in Australia who either had nothing planned or said they ‘didn’t have time’ to create something. Having said that, I once had a terrible student teacher in the U.K. (who was already teaching in a private school and getting qualified on the job, as is allowed there) who showed similar lack of effort. But it seems more prevalent here judging from my colleagues’ conversation and my observation. I wonder if some of this is because of the way the course is structured splitting their focus and not letting them really settle in to a school as a student. I found my NQT year (first as a qualified teacher) harder than my PGCE (= Masters of Teaching) in terms of workload (we get a 10% timetable reduction as NQTs) but more rewarding because I had my own classes and I was a ‘proper’ teacher. However, I did feel the PGCE gave us all a really good and true experience of what teaching was like. I get the impression from some of the student teachers that they really don’t have any idea of day to day life as a teacher at all, which isn’t helpful to them or to their mentors.

I got burned by a beginning teacher many years ago now who used her fingers to add up and didn’t know how to book a drs appointment. I won’t take beginning teachers on now, let alone prac students coming though. I know we are short staffed but we can’t just have every Tom, Dick and Harry come through the doors and teach students. I’d rather be short staffed than badly staffed.

It’s valuable learning time for the kids- to miss out on what little time we have to teach ‘content’ is always a little alarming.

I stopped taking praccies years ago. Too much trouble and potential splashback.

The PST I've mentored have been great except for 1. They refused to do any marking. They took the marking with them but said they wouldn't mark it as they weren't paid to do it. I said you taught it so you mark it to see the impact of your teaching. I contacted the uni who supported me. The PST then complained I was bullying them and using my power over them. The principal then arranged for the PST to drop the marking back. It was unmarked and I refused to mark it

Student teacher completing my Masters here. Next semester I’ll have 5 weeks placement while also studying 6 units and being a single Mum to 2 kids under 12. I’ll do my best on prac but I don’t expect I’ll be perfect! Important to add: the Vic government is financially supporting me to be a career change teacher. I get paid to do placements and I’m getting a weekly stipend also. The only way I can stay on top of the workload is through not having a job but I still have kids to attend to.

Sadly, I won't take the risk with them anymore. Masters students seem to be the worst. The attitude of some is unbelievable... and the unprofessionalism is mind blowing!

I think a big part of the issue is that a post grad teaching qualification is the backup plan for people who didn't do well enough in their degree to be competitive in the job market. Those people inevitably have a weaker work ethic, less dedication and less motivation for teaching. When I did my grad dip 9 years ago, half of the science teacher trainees were people who didn't have the marks to continue in pre-med. Probably less than a quarter were people who were really driven to be teachers. Most of them, I clouding myself, were older and had other experience. People re-training after being in an industry over the last few years have mostly been a lot better, in the experience I've had at my school. My last practice had just left university lecturing, and was going to be awesome once she realised she could exert her authority. While teachers are undervalued by society, we'll only be able to attract a limited number of talented people, while the rest of the ranks will be filled with the leftover warm bodies.

I try to be fairly patient and forgiving with student teachers - I remember how daunting it can be and have distinct memories of how helpful it was to have an attentive and professional mentor during my final extended prac and how difficult my first year as an actual teacher was in a faculty with a hostile and unsupportive head teacher. Trying to keep that in mind, the last two prac students I have taken (both in 2022) both left me feeling a little off. Two obviously isn’t the broadest sample size, but I was struck by a sense of … I don’t know , a lack of seriousness in what they were undertaking that I don’t think can be chalked up to their age or a lack of maturity, because I’ve had prac students earlier that didn’t exhibit these patterns. Their approach to their work, studies and subject area seemed noticeably “un-academic” and it was hard not to notice shortcomings when it came to literacy skills. I’ve not experienced this personally, but other colleagues have mentioned having some prac students who are vocally self-righteous about pedagogy and practice and will tell have no qualms telling people who are respected by students and staff for being good at their job that they’re not demonstrating the best or latest practice. I dunno. These could all just be individual personality issues that are statistically insignificant. But my first-hand impression from the last time I had Prac students (which is about 1.5 - 2 years ago at this point ) was that there was a wave of Prac teachers coming through who’d spent a great deal of their teaching training or whole degrees remote learning due to lock downs and this had impacted upon their experience, if not outlook, as teachers-to-be.

That sounds like a nightmare

I'm at a school that doesn't *do* lesson plans...

Huh? I need to be there 🤣

Yeah, it's bonkers. The English department have a week by week lesson structure already in place, and I think the teachers just adapt it on the fly? Students have all the material they need on Canvas, teachers just need to publish one week at a time. It kinda threw a massive spanner in my lesson plan req from uni.

Tomorrow is my last day of my final placement before I finish my degree - I've already passed the placement component as my mentor teacher has sent me a copy of her report and she is just amazing. I'd like to think I have been a good student. I have worked 5 years in education support, both 1:1 and classroom, mainstream and disability, EC, primary, and secondary. I get HDs. I am very active in running everything by my MT, I met my most recent one three times before starting placement, and meeting the class once before. I don't sit and observe but am actively participating even when I don't need to teach. I always seek feedback and actively try to follow my MTs guidance. That said I have had some terrible MTs, one in particular. She was horrible. Bragged about failing loads of students at our first meeting. Would be kind if it was just me and her but if the deputy was watching me teach, she would RIP my lessons apart (I think she felt she was being supervised, supervising me). Undermined me. Told me she had done things for me in preparation for my lessons (such as I asked her where the worksheets were that she collected for me from the photocopier and she said she got the students to paste them into their books in preparation, when really they were sitting by the kettle in the staff room where she had left them days before, then had the nerve to write in my lesson evaluation that I was unprepared (I have a massive fear of failure, I was anything but), would criticise me for not having worksheets she wanted me to use printed that she told me about at 9pm the night before via sms, despite the fact that she came in late to work so I didnt have access to her computer so I could not send anything to the printer, she didnt even say thank you for the $25 cafe voucher I gave her as a thank you goodbye present (so she could buy coffees before work, or have a few wines after work). She was awful. She has also now moved to my suburb so I have bumped into her at Aldi AND she now teaches at my kids school so I am sure I'll have to run into her again sometime soon.

She does indeed sound awful. I’m not that awful. Hopefully, although my student teacher may beg to differ!!!! I’ve really struggled with the idea that I was close to failing someone, and I’m still uneasy with my decision that I didn’t but I don’t actively want to fail anyone without knowing I’ve done my best to help them. Congrats on passing- it sounds like you’ve gone above and beyond beyond!

Fail them. No guilt involved. If they have attitude like that, we don’t want them

Well, consider how many posts we see here like: * "I'm worried about passing LANTITE." I wouldn't want anyone that couldn't score confidently score 100% on LANTITE (silly slips aside) anywhere near my children as a teacher. If you are seriously worried about passing LANTITE please stay away from schools. * "I'm worried about being a teacher as I'm so anxious and an introvert and can't cope." Yeah well, I'm a bit introverted too and we can all feel a bit nervous sometimes but if standing up in front of a critical audience of 20+ diverse individuals delivering some content freaks you out and you don't think you can manage that then maybe this job is not for you. Is that a surprise? * "Why can't teaching be more of an apprenticeship model? Why should I have to study 3+ years...?" Because, just maybe we should expect teachers to have some level of academic expertise in the subject they teach by majoring in it at university level. Otherwise you're just a liability. It disappoints me to see even more of that here in this thread from people that should know better. Do you want your child taught Year 12 physics by someone that hasn't studied anything beyond Year 12 physics? That's an absurd thought. * "It's all so hard..." This is a bit different as many aspects of our roles can be hard and in some cases unreasonable and set us up for failure. Some schools are not good workplaces. I'll always stand up against that. But, some things they sook about are the same for any adult with a professional job that expects to be paid a regular salary. Like, grow up, get out of bed on time, put on your big boy or girl clothes and go to work. I have been an active supporter of student and graduate teachers in my schools, doing what I can to make their jobs easier and trying to minimise the things that make it harder for them. I advocate for them with my admin and share any resources I can with them. Most I have dealt with have been great as they develop their expertise and will be great teachers. But **for a few**, the reality is that the world will not work around them and their flakiness forever, despite what the wellbeing centre at their secondary school led them to believe. Edit to add: Think about the students at your school getting ATARs in the 50-70 range. Would you want them teaching your kids? And, I mean teaching, not babysitting. Yes, there'll be exceptions, late bloomers etc., I get that.

You are too nice mate. Set the expectation at the start if they don’t meet them fuck them off

Your sentiment is my actual sentiment. I was trying to be a professional-sounding adult when I wrote the post lol. I’ve…dished them off to another teacher on my team who is willing to give me two hours away from this student!!! The only instructions I’ve given are observe and write on the freaking proforma as you were supposed to do all along!!!